A recent autumn storm caused the destruction of the metal goal fame in our garden. The small goal with the weather-beaten net had fallen into disuse. But I liked it seeing it there on the grass. I suppose I half-expected, half-hoped, it would be used again. Once, it was a father and son thing and had been constructed carefully from a nice set of plans. At the time, it impressed both son and daughter no end. But that was then, this was now.
One of our trees, blown over by the recent high winds, caused the goal frame’s final demise. As I unscrewed the twisted metal I thought of the hours of innocent fun it had given us. It had been the scene of many goals and not a few great saves. My son, who is soon off to uni, smiled thoughtfully as I mentioned that this was the end of the ‘goalposts of childhood’. Perhaps he knew what I meant.
My own childhood goalposts had been ‘doon the back’. Drawn with chalk on the red brick of the ‘sausage wall’ at one end, and on part of the ‘wash hoose’ at the other. Many a league, Cup and international match was played out between those goals on the Dennistoun dirt. We once put on a parallel version of a historic England v Scotland match while the real match was being played at Wembley. Jim Mone sitting on one of the dykes had a transister radio to his ear. As we played our match he chalked up live score updates on the wall — our Twitter and FaceBook anno 1967. What a day.
We did use a pile of jackets up on the old Dennistoun cricket pitch, but only rarely. Mostly, we played on the red gravel surface at the Finlay Drive entrance. That pitch was fitted with real goalposts — like the ones they had at Hampden. Or so we imagined.
These sentimental memories of receding years accompanied my removal of the ruined metal goal frame. But, as you can imagine, it seemed an almost symbolic act. For fans of Scottish football the ‘goalposts’ that once defined the game of our football childhoods — have not only been moved, they’ve been been twisted and mis-shapen out of all recognition.
The past decades have seen a fundamental change in the way our game is run and governed, at home and abroad. Money is now king and sporting consideration is a luxury we sometimes have to put to one side — or at least, so we’re told.
At the risk of stating the obvious, sport, if it is to mean anything at all, has to be based on clearly defined rules and principles. These rules must be applied equally to all the participants, they are certainly not optional extras. However, to misquote and paraphrase George Orwell, ‘all teams are equal, but some teams are more equal than others’ — at least, when it comes to Scottish football.
The efforts by the SFA to re-interpret rules to fit the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the demise of Rangers FC in 2012 have left most of us scratching our heads. Much of the Scottish media has backed up the SFA’s efforts, something which has added to the general confusion and chaos. In fact, it’s become clear that the death of Rangers, as we knew them, has been such a traumatic event that it must be denied. The authorities and media seem to have been so besotted with one club that its loss is out of the question. And so, it’s been gifted a bizarre kind of immunity from liquidation and death that implies its on-going existence, long after it drew it’s final breath.
This situation has opened the door to a legion of businessmen on the make. They have been allowed to perpetuate the myth, with SFA blessing, that they ‘saved’ Rangers. And their unwavering message is, that they can only succeed if fans keep giving them their hard-earned cash. To those outside the blue bubble it looks like a huge con trick. If the only source of real money in football is the fans, then the Ibrox faithful have been royally fleeced.
How different it could have been if the former club had been allowed a dignified end. A year out of the game would probably have allowed fans to restart a newco of their own. They could have applied for entry into the professional leagues along with the other clubs waiting in line. Chances are they would have been given special dispensation, and walked straight into the bottom tier. Of course, they would have claimed to be the continuation of the spirit of the previous entity — but would anyone have argued against that? How different it could have been if the rules governing the game had been respected. The SFA may even have kept their dignity intact and the press not felt obliged to print half-truths, falsehoods and lies.
You’ve got to wonder why Dunfermline and Hearts fought so desperately to avoid liquidation. After all, the Scottish football authorities now seem intent on convincing us that liquidation has little or no effect on a football club. Even past sins, such as wrongly-registered players are as naught — if, at the time, they were thought to have been registered correctly. By this logic, we have to ask: if a ‘company’ running a ‘club’ bribes a referee, will retrospective action will be taken against the ‘club’. The players and the club, after all, will have done nothing wrong. And since the referee was not known to have been bribed, and not struck off, he was qualified to referee the match in question, at the time. Using the SFA thought process, the result would probably be allowed to stand. Personally, I’m not sure I follow SFA logic. They’ve ‘moved the goalposts’, and (you saw it coming) bent them into an unrecognisable shape.
Which brings me back to our garden. The old metal goal frame is waiting to be driven down to the local re-cycling centre. The twisted metal and worn-out net are useless. Ruined by forces beyond our control. There is no interest in a replacement at present. Perhaps, if we have grandchildren, they will show an interest in football. If they do, I’ll build a new set of goalposts. They’ll be straight and true, the way the goalposts of childhood should be. The way goalposts should always be.
Resin,
You forgot about the profit dividend from Sports Direct, it was not included in the cash flow projection, they will have just enough to pay the bills.
The scale of the pay cut request gives us an indication of the level of cuts needed next year, 1 million in player wages, maybe another few million in other areas.
Castofthousands says:
January 27, 2014 at 6:15 pm
######
Banks went from being a place where people deposited cash and encouraged prudent borrowing to focussing on the short term retail income by selling ‘products’. Iran Fraser’s blog forensically analyses the role of banks in the destruction of the economy.
SDM wasn’t a victim of the establishment, he was a fully leveraged member of it. The notion of borrowing money secured on future income coupled with the continuous cycle of ever more fabulous signings, floating pitches, casinos, hotels and Euro leagues together with a compliant press, assisted by a ‘light touch’ regulatory approach sealed ranger’s downfall.
In the eighties people were encouraged to mortgage up, then they were encouraged to realise equity via loans, then interest rates hit 17%. The banks/authorities should have exercised restraint. SDM was lauded (as was CW) as a business genius. Except he wasn’t.
Sevco continue to imagine that a sugar daddy will bail them out and make everything better than it was before.
Resin_lab_dog says:
January 27, 2014 at 9:33 pm
If Stockbridge numbers were correct, then Wallace’s timing makes sense.
BS rreckoned £1m in bank to April with £2.5m loan facility.
==============================================
I don’t remember Stockbridge mentioning the £2.5m facility as a separate item. My assumption was that the £1m by April already took into account the £2.5m facility having been drawn by then. On that basis, the Ibrox bus is already running on fumes, and without another £5m or so, from wherever, the season simply won’t be completed.
I’m sure that one or more of the hedge funds will advance the money required, but the terms will be brutal, Wonga rate short term loans, long term loans loans secured on the properties, or loads of cheap shares. Take your pick, but cash simply has to be brought in. Desperate borrowers always get a bad deal. That’s an iron rule of business. Now it’s just a question of exactly how bad a deal. These hedge funds aren’t in this for the football, they want a good return, and quickly.
Expat, I think you’re being naïve if you think “the dismissal of BS removed any lasting doubt who is now running Rangers”. He might have been the last link to the gang of four, but his going doesn’t change the owners’ shareholdings (much). It’s still the wrong type of shareholder for anyone who is looking for owners who want to get RFC* ‘back where they belong’.
The public face (Wallace, Somers, the Easdales etc) is one thing, but the owners are another entirely.
Ally & co very quiet today 😉 is this the lull before the storm
chancer67 says:
January 27, 2014 at 9:04 pm
Why the TD;s i’m only relating to the blog what the bears have sent to the EC and i’m awaiting echoboy’s take on it.I would appreciate if any of you could shoot down the “evidence” rather than shoot the messenger.
=============================================================
I have written very detailed posts on TSFM regarding Lennoxtown and Westthorn and it would appear from the questions that you have asked that you haven’t yet had the opportunity to read them so perhaps it would assist you to have a look at them.
However you ask if I can shed any light on the actual Bear accusations and what if any chance is there of them getting a result. I have to say that I actually doubt if there is a single Bear can throw any lucid light on what their claims now are as they change and are all over the place.
It appears to me that the vast majority of Bears have switched-off and just think: ‘If we get a result against Celtic that’ll be great’. However I have concentrated on Westthorn and Lennoxtown with especial regard to the issue of State Aid and I don’t believe they have a snowball’s chance. However the EC can be a strange place so I will await their decision.
With regard to Lennoxtown I am confident that I have proven from that the land where the Celtic Training facility is located has been designated as greenbelt since 2002 – long before Celtic purchased it or even had an interest in it. The Bear case is simply wrong in claiming that the land should be valued as if it had planning permission for a housing development. Indeed the Celtic planning permission from East Dunbartonshire Council clearly states it is greenbelt land and the current council map continues to show it as greenbelt.
Simple logic dictates that if it wasn’t greenbelt and had planning for housing that Celtic wouldn’t have bought it as a training ground because the price would have been prohibitive.
The Bear position on Westthorn, as I understand it, is that it was undervalued and that the price paid by Celtic was fiddled by claiming that there were more abnormal ground conditions than actually existed. My posts detail the various historical ground problems at the site mainly from the brickworks’ clay pit; the two reservoirs which each held 4 million gallons of water; and the four deep mining shafts with extensive underground workings which I have traced back at least to circa 1750.
So Westthorn does have serious abnormal ground conditions and a discount was entitled to be made from the sale price which was fixed on the number of housing units the site was expected to accommodate less the remedial works to put the ground into a fit state to actually be able to build the houses on it.
So what the Bears believe to be a profit isn’t actually a profit but will be required to be spent on the ground. Is the discount set within an acceptable range? Well it was agreed afaik between separate surveyors for Celtic and Glasgow Council plus the independent District Valuers Department. I think anyone that openly states or implies they were involved in a conspiracy that amounted to Public Corruption is asking for serious trouble of a legal nature.
Just for the record – I think any such suggestion is not only nonsense but totally irresponsible ❗
You mention the rejection of the FoI requests for the geotechnical report – Glasgow District is legally bound by a Court of Session Inner House decision and I have fully explained this in a detailed post earlier today at:
ecobhoy says:
January 27, 2014 at 9:34 am
As to the issue of transactions between Celtic and their bankers wrt security being lodged that is a matter for the parties and I have no doubt that it will probably be dealt with in the relevant Celtic accounts when they are published as they are every year. I assume the value given for the land is that in its remediated condition which doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
But hey the Bears should look at what Sevco paid for Ibrox and Murray Park and then look at the staggering increases in value that appeared in the pre-IPO accounts. There’s nothing illegal about it and its just another ploy for Bears to waste time on fabricated claims when they should be digging into who owns Rangers and Ibrox.
It really does strike me as strange the enormous effort being put into this blue squirrel – I reckon the original couple of bodies who started this – before the PR spinners saw the golden opportunity to deflect Rangers fans away from the problems at Ibrox – are probably exhausted and I see they are looking for researchers as the whole thing gets more compex and byzantine by the day.
Every rational person knows when you have any complex situation with many different threads of enquiry that you examine the varied avenues and pick the one that you have the best chance of winning/proving/unravelling. If you succeed then you can get away with throwing in all the other allegations.
If you lose then you quietly walk away and don’t get left looking like a total idiot 😳
However as I have already made clear this is about distracting the Bears and it’s working because they are being well worked-over and used and abused by their own kind which is rather sad.
However you say that you are revealing the thrust of the complaints made by the Bears to the EC and that interests me because I haven’t seen any sign of that being mentioned elsewhere. Could you advise me where I can view the info ❓
Once the window shuts, will Jig be asked to put it to the players that the 15% cut is no longer optional? What alternatives do the players have?
(1). Refuse to accept a fundamental change to their contract. This leaves the board no as alternative but to apply for admin and release some of the 56 players on big contracts.
(2). Refuse to accept… The board announce a substantial increase in STs.
(3) Refuse to accept… Ally suddenly finds that, despite his obvious personalability (©spiersy), negative stories in the press leave him no option but to design sans benefits.
(4) Accept. The board drop a melon.
ecobhoy says:
January 27, 2014 at 10:32 pm
=====================
great post, one thing I would like the bears to tell me…..if any of that land – westhorn/lennoxtown is worth 60 times what celtic paid for it to a property developer, why haven’t Celtic just sold it and pocketed the huge profits?
(not that they need them)
are we just land banking until such times as we could then offload it and sign messi and ronaldo?
we built a training pitch on land worth £30M? i’d sack the CEO and chairman who made that decision!
btw, do celtic get the keys for the velodrome the day after the commonwealth games finishes? that would be a handy indoor facility on our doorstep? I think £500k should cover it – no?
expatbhoy says:
January 27, 2014 at 9:43 pm
Resin,
You forgot about the profit dividend from Sports Direct, it was not included in the cash flow projection, they will have just enough to pay the bills.
The scale of the pay cut request gives us an indication of the level of cuts needed next year, 1 million in player wages, maybe another few million in other areas.
=========================================================
I thought £1 million was included in the accounts relating to Sports Direct. Whether that is actually money made on selling kit or paert of the £1.5 million draw-down loan from Rangers Retail is debatable. But I’m heading to bed and can’t be annoyed checking but wasn’t that £1 million not able to ne spent by RIFC ?
I don’t see how you can extrapolate the 15% wages discussion in calculating that a £1 million players wages cut is required next year next year. The 15% wouldn’t have been the only measure taken to reduce players wages as loan deals, player sales, paying-off contracts would all be in the mix as well.
We need to see the accounts which are due to be presented to AIM shortly to get a more accurate idea of the cuts that will be required if the club survives that long.
http://billmcmurdo.wordpress.com/blog-2/
I see the fainthearts and keyboard munchers are buying into the propaganda that Rangers are in some sort of financial crisis. All kinds of speculation and fearful thinking seem to have gripped the fevered imaginations of the more timorous in the bluenose support.
One thread on a popular forum even re-visited my quote that BPH have £50 million available should Rangers require it, once the club returns to the big European stage.
Much ridicule has been thrown at this over the past few months. If those laughing knew the strength of BPH, they wouldn’t be scoffing.
Let me reiterate what I said about the £50 million. What I was told was that once Rangers get back into top flight European competition, money is available should it be required to take the club on to the next level. BPH could easily cut a cheque for £50 million.
Now for the benefit of those who are a bit slower than most, this is a Ronseal statement. It is what it says on the tin.
It is not a promise for £50 million. And it is definitely not a promise for £50 million to help the club in the Championship next season.
It is a statement that money is available should it be required. In essence, money is not a problem.
Now if Rangers generate revenue streams and run a tight financial ship, there may be no need for an influx of £50 million. But a Rangers run in a prudent fiscal manner is far more attractive to investor money. And that money is there should it be required.
What the club is going through at present is the pain of having to live within budgetary controls. It stands to reason that for Rangers to maximise commercial deals and generate appropriate revenues, the club has to be in the top tier and banging on the door of the Champions League again.
Right now, Rangers is constrained by certain limits that come from the club’s league position.
The club has to live within its means; it is that simple.
Certain people at Ibrox clearly do not like this.
But the reality is very simple and it has to be said:
The old guard are not riding to the rescue with bottomless vaults of cash.
The time has come for Rangers fans to unite and get behind the club – team, board and all.
One more thing. I am not the mouthpiece for anybody on the board. I write based on what I know. People can choose to believe what they want. I read what I am supposed to have said all the time on forums and most of it is a pack of lies.
If you want to read what I actually say, you can read it here.
😳
It is a statement that money is available should it be required. In essence, money is not a problem.
is he sane ?
andy says:
January 27, 2014 at 11:22 pm
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http://billmcmurdo.wordpress.com/blog-2/
I see the fainthearts and keyboard munchers are buying into the propaganda that Rangers are in some sort of financial crisis. All kinds of speculation and fearful thinking seem to have gripped the fevered imaginations of the more timorous in the bluenose support.
One thread on a popular forum even re-visited my quote that BPH have £50 million available should Rangers require it, once the club returns to the big European stage.
Much ridicule has been thrown at this over the past few months. If those laughing knew the strength of BPH, they wouldn’t be scoffing.
============================================
Is this lunatic referring to BPH Billington?
Bawsman says:
January 27, 2014 at 11:39 pm
Getting money out of SA was always difficult but I’m not sure what its like now, even in the difficult times those and such as those could move money somehow. That said I would think King would be under much scrutiny
Rangers sit atop league one with 64 points from 22 games, somewhat neatly their goal difference is also 64. Their nearest challengers for the title, Dunfermline have amassed 41 points with a goal difference of 9, from the same number of games (22).
I guess there will not be too many people betting against Rangers taking the title.
If I’m reading things correctly Rangers fans are not too happy with the team’s performances. The general complaint seems to be that Rangers should be showing more flair and win more comfortably against teams with part time players and limited budgets.
Many have openly questioned the ability of their manager, believing that the team would play in a more appealing way if he was replaced by someone better.
It’s not a view that I would disagree with; actually being better at something usually produces outcomes that are for want of a better word, better.
The trouble is. How do you move a guy like Ally McCoist on?
From the moment he uttered the famous words “we don’t do walking away” his status at the emergent Rangers was secured. He came to be seen among fans and Charles Greens consortium as something indispensable.
As fans rallied round him it was clear to anyone looking in and those with special interests that selling shares and season tickets would be much more difficult if not impossible without the fans favourite onside.
I’m sure Charles Green and his backers recognised this and Mr McCoist was rewarded with a significant number of shares bought at a rate which even at today’s price would see him make a pleasing profit to say nothing of his salary (even if it has been reduced) and bonuses.
Whatever one thinks about Charles Greens involvement with Rangers he was entirely successful in selling season tickets and shares to Rangers fans. The fact is that regardless of any attempt to point out genuine concerns, his detractors were completely unable to convince the majority of the Rangers fan base that anything was amiss.
I had a pop or two at Charles Green myself and was happy to do so but in truth, where it mattered, I never laid a glove on the guy.
The confidence and bravado he displayed fitted in with the expectations of many of the Rangers fan base. Some saw him as a man who was fighting their corner. Some in spite of everything we have learned would have him back in a heartbeat.
There was always something a little too studied though telling in the hard sell that had Rangers fans handing over their money for season tickets and shares in the days when Rangers set out their stall at the bottom tier of Scottish football.
Charles Green won them over for sure but to get at the income Rangers fans could provide, the fans had to believe that time spent in the lower leagues would last only as long as it took to win each league at the first attempt, and Mr McCoist had to be on board to achieve this.
For those wishing to make their fortune by persuading Rangers fans that their “rightful place” was at hand there looks to have been some thoughtful process as to how this could be achieved and persuasively presented.
I can only presume that for want of anything more sophisticated the tried and trusted sledgehammer was selected to crack a nut.
It’s a plan which clearly suited those who would not be around to see or care about the outcome, but it leaves a legacy.
It’s not the same legacy that Sir David Murray left behind, that of spending seemingly boundless and ultimately destructive sums of money at achieving success in football.
There is however a link.
If you are going persuade Rangers fans to part with their money, hanging around in the lower leagues of Scottish football was never an option. They may be prepared to make friends there or in brushing their way past but don’t ask them to have to compete, for those brought up in the Murray years this simply does not compute.
In a marriage made in hell RIFC are now stuck with Mr McCoist as team manager and stuck with players they are ill equipped to pay for but who will win the league they are in comfortably and at the same time encounter the derision of the fans, who ostensibly support them.
They want as ever to see better play and that costs even more money.
Meanwhile the bank balance is not looking too good, which I’m sure brings some kind of focus to the current CEO’s thinking.
Time is running out.
Graham Wallace has to square a circle, something which mathematically has no solution.
I wonder how he will do, assuming events don’t overtake him.
Here was me wondering, in my naivety, why anyone would want to be buying shares in the leaky, bilge rat – infested tub that passes itself off as a fitba club down Govan way.
Is it any wonder I will never be a rich man?
So the idea is you pile in to shares in the Big (but Rotting) Hoose when they are scraping the barrel, so you get them nice and cheap, so you are then in a position to dictate that they have to take a loan from a provider of your choosing (either you or your mate), at rates that would make Wonga blush and so you guarantee an almost instant massive return on your investment.
Is this right?
If so I imagine there must be a queue to pick up the scraps on this one. In fact I bet you they are fighting like cats and dogs to get the lion’s share.
And Mr Wallace is doing such a fine job of cutting costs.
And Dave King says they need to spend more money.
And the SMSM keep telling the fans the club needs to spend more money.
And wouldn’t it be great to be pretty sure it is all going to be OK, “sooner rather than later”…
With friends like these…
Phil predicted some news within 2 weeks 😉 let’s just wait and see 😉
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/team-doing-its-job-even-if-watching-is-hard-work.23288464
Richard Wilson in today’s Herald. Even allowing for my obvious bias as a Celtic fan, I do find articles such as these totally pointless.
It seems that Damille Investments II didn’t want to hang onto their investment for very long. Their holding has gone down from 2M to 859,521 shares. Was probably part of the tranche purchased by River and Mercantile last week.
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=11846527
OT I know – but sad news with the passing of a true believer in social justice.
Pete Seeger RIP.
Martin says:
January 28, 2014 at 12:18 am
15 2 Rate This
———-
Thoughtful post Martin. It got me thinking.
With all the wheeler-dealer dynamics of ‘the January window’ reaching their climax, there’s no doubt the fans of bigger clubs will be looking for a bit more on-field ‘eye candy’ to appease their fans thirst for success and entertainment.
Though, in a Scottish context, I wondered at the weekend who were the happier — the Hibs fans watching a young lad with a legendary name coming good, or Celts fans seeing their young £2m Finn coming on to some sort of game.
Not a criticism of CFC, I believe their plan to find rough diamonds, or works in progress, and selling them on is smart, and an acceptance of current reality. To me it is a pity most of them appear to be brought in from abroad, rather than plucked from the local market, but such is life. I’m thinking more, though, of what appeals most to fans of the game of the common man — seeing a local lad come good, or watching someone who is essentially a highly-funded investment in the hope that he will play well so that a good deal can be had down the line.
As a neutral, I admit I was more excited by young Sam Stanton, more so than watching those who have a heavy price tag to justify. And you sensed from the crowd reaction that his performance gave them a lift. There is probably more fan patience with home-grown lads and greater satisfaction if they turn out to be the real thing.
Just a thought, on a snowy morning.
@ecobhoy Thanks for your reply, regarding the info sent to the EC the dossier was sent by the Rangers Supporters Trust the research was carried out by a couple of intrepid bloggers namely pzj and Football Tax Havens I haven’t seen the content but I’ve noticed in the last couple of days a feeding frenzy on Twitter, it looks like someone in a PR capacity has cottoned onto this and is pushing the agenda.
expatbhoy says (quoting Scotsman):
January 27, 2014 at 9:16 pm
“Given the size of the support base, eventual recovery appears certain.”
——
You cannae argue with that statement.
It does, however, depend on Rangers continuing to win, win, win. This is why the team is full of unaffordable players who should be playing at a higher standard. So that there’s no doubt at all that winning will continue. This is why McCoist wishes to strengthen his team so that they’re miles in front of upcoming opposition.
It’s the only way that the support will be kept onside. Rangers fans are well known for departing in droves when they aren’t guaranteed a winning team. This simply can’t be allowed to happen.
So the “eventual” part is the key. Perhaps eventually they’ll recover to a degree. This could take many years and the realisation that at some point they’re going to have to consume a slice of humble pie and start again, properly this time, and build from a solid foundation.
Normally, this would be the case. I can’t help feeling, however, that a section of society cannot abide by such slow-cooking.
All efforts will be made – in many areas of life – to patch up and prop up the wheezing corpse and force it above its station. Charlton Heston pulled off a similar trick with great success for a day – but he was still dead.
I don’t think this is to do with pocket-lining. Not in the short-term (anymore).
I think the resurrectionists will make it happen because they just cannot face humiliation.
chancer67 says:
January 28, 2014 at 8:42 am
@ecobhoy Thanks for your reply, regarding the info sent to the EC the dossier was sent by the Rangers Supporters Trust the research was carried out by a couple of intrepid bloggers namely pzj and Football Tax Havens I haven’t seen the content but I’ve noticed in the last couple of days a feeding frenzy on Twitter, it looks like someone in a PR capacity has cottoned onto this and is pushing the agenda.
============================================
They might be intrepid and they certainly have expended enormous amounts of time and energy but to date they have produced the square root of zero. I believe that is basically though being blinkered in their approach and always seeking the ‘conspiracy’ answer rather than just accepting that things usually are as they seem and anomalies are more often explained through simple human error.
They also seem to think that FoI requests are the answer to everything when as far as I am concerned their main use is when you actually know the truth of a situation and seek confirmation.
I have found that it’s hard to successfully use them for a ‘fishing exercise’ because the person in most organisations answering them is usually fairly skilled at revealing nothing. So you have to know the truth to have a hope of framing a question that will get it confirmed.
However as you have obviously studied their work and had a chance to look at mine I would be interested to hear what you think of the two widely differing positions. I tend to think that any objective analysis of their allegations finds them to be deeply flawed.
I would also appreciate if you could advise me where to get a copy of the RST submission to the EC – it may well be on its website but it isn’t a place I immediately think of when looking for factual info.
However I am amazed at RST’s involvement because I thought they had their own problems and certainly I thought their focus should be on the massive problems facing Rangers. All very strange although I totally agree about the PR focus which has latched onto the early efforts by PZJ and the footballtaxblog.
I am about to stick another land story up and I think it demonstrates a spectacular ‘own goal’ by the Bear land experts 😉
Martin,
More of this bizarre common sensisical, logical, balanced arguement of which you speak please. Most refreshing.
If Wallace can turn the square into a circle using his own endeavour, or even buy a new circle using his own money or clean money entrusted to him I will be the first to congratulate him. If any semblance of a behind the doors deal is struck that we all now have to concede we’re in the squares business and to hell with those old fashioned circles then hell mend them all.
chancer67 says:
January 28, 2014 at 8:42 am
4 4 Rate This
@ecobhoy Thanks for your reply, regarding the info sent to the EC the dossier was sent by the Rangers Supporters Trust the research was carried out by a couple of intrepid bloggers namely pzj and Football Tax Havens
===================
If these intrepid bloggers are so sure of their ground (get it?) then why don’t they come on here and post a line by line rebuttal of the points made by Ecobhoy on here over the last week or two? That’s a genuine question by the way. If their thesis is sound, then they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by debating it.
I think Ecobhoy has made a similar point already, but here is my view anyway. Some of these bloggers are alleging what can only be construed as a widespread criminal conspiracy. If they really believe that is what they have uncovered, then they should place their evidence in the hands of the police. That is really the only safe (and correct) course of action in those circumstances. Publishing unsubstantiated (or even just misconceived) allegations of criminal activity against identifiable individuals, including public officials, is really asking for big trouble, in my opinion.
McMurdo peaked my interest which is unusual.
“Idle gossip and speculation amongst the more timourous of our support.”
Ha ha ha. I see what you did there. Very good. Most orginal.
Interesting though that by timourous I would perceive someone quiet and shy certainly, but with the capacity to also stop and think a minute. Indeed that is often their downfall – to over think things to the extent that the thing never actually gets done. In the commercial world that is all too often perceived to be a bad thing – believe me, been there, done that, stole the T shirt – but in the lemming community I wouldn’t be so fast to mock…
But maybe I’m over thinking it now.
I note that TRFC have dropped “Every Battle, Every Shot” from their email circular begging fans to turn up at the next game …
http://e.rangers.co.uk/A1CaF_mA5npR0a00PvpI24qkg55c8GTA_Vutpu7TR4Y/WebView.aspx
Do any other clubs send an email round fans reminding them about the next home game? I don’t seem to get them from Pittodrie, for example.
Nice to see Paxman referring respectfully, and at some length, to the WW1 Hearts team in his programme about that war last night, by the way.
Surely it’s time for our football governing authorities(being facetious again) to demand a full statement from Sevco as to their ability to fulfil their obligations for the rest of the season.Ongoing uncertainty doesn’t only affect those of a blue persuasion.I’m feart tae book an early holiday in case I miss some cataclysmic event!
ecobhoy,
This is a copy of the minutes of a meeting between fans and BS/CM in October 2013.
——————————————————————————————————————————————
“GL – What will be the low point for our cash balances in this current year?
BS – April of next year we will have over a million at that point plus we will also have an optional unsecured facility provided should we need it.
CM – the million is without counting any Rangers Retail dividend. So there will be more than a million at our lowest point. ”
—————————————————————————————————————————————
Profits from retail plus a million, plus a 2.5 million facility should see them fall over the line into next year, assuming the information is accurate.
Smugas says:
January 28, 2014 at 9:58 am
“Idle gossip and speculation amongst the more timourous of our support.”
________________________________________________________
I presume the ‘timorous’ amongst their support are those with the guts to speak out against the tidal wave of WATP dogma!
I like McMurdo’s assertion that there’s a company out there with £50m to pump into TRFC once they reach the Champions League. Apart from being a bit like me saying I’ll be as good as Clapton as soon as my arthritic fingers cure themselves, surely one of those timorous bears will ask him why this company, BPH, didn’t pump in £50m to RFC when they were in the Champions League? Of course, maybe their just too timorous to ask!
neepheid says:
January 28, 2014 at 9:47 am
chancer67 says:
January 28, 2014 at 8:42 am
@ecobhoy Thanks for your reply, regarding the info sent to the EC the dossier was sent by the Rangers Supporters Trust the research was carried out by a couple of intrepid bloggers namely pzj and Football Tax Havens
===================
If these intrepid bloggers are so sure of their ground (get it?) then why don’t they come on here and post a line by line rebuttal of the points made by Ecobhoy on here over the last week or two?
=====================
I would welcome a line by line rebuttal for the simple reason that I retain an open mind and if I get something wrong and someone provides actual proof of my error then I will consider it and if I agree then I will admit my mistake. It’s no biggy to me as I don’t have an agenda and I’m not on a Crusade.
I have been wrong many times in my life and will be again and IMO it’s being able to recognise and accept that which actually makes your more careful and objective in the future. Many Bears know they are always totally right and therefore they not only fail the open-mind test but they repeatedly land in the sh*te through this WATP mentality sub-set.
I readily admit, having now had the chance to check, that I dismissed something very important that blu posted wrt to Lennoxtown viz that the actual Celtic planning permission at Lennoxtown from East Dunbratonshire Council specified the site was greenbelt. I knew that and thought I had mentioned it but I hadn’t – a very important piece of info. It just proves that we ain’t always right even if we ain’t wrong – hope that makes sense.
I am actually stunned to be told the RST is behind the State Aid complaint to the EC – there can’t be anything of any interest happening at Ibrox it would seem. I checked the RST site but I can’t see any mention of the EC issue so is this initiative the work of a small cabal using the RST name without the knowledge of the wider membership?
However back to the important issue. I started to look at the land deal allegations after seeing the way the campaign was progressing and accelerating and I hadn’t actually seen any structured response which questioned the assertions being made.
So, with an open mind, I checked it out taking Westthorn and Lennoxtown as my main focus because they appeared to be what the major illegal State Aid allegations were based on. If I had found agreement with the Bears on this then I would have posted that finding as I would not allow Celtic or public officials to act in a corrupt way. Many many things come before my love of football and Celtic and indeed my love for the club would not allow me to rest if there was any corruption at the heart of the club and I think most supporters would agree with that.
However I quickly realised and proved the tissue of Bear fabrication was based on falsehood, sectarian motivation, and factual errors which bordered on bare-faced lies albeit dressed-up to appear as authoritative.
We are where we are and I have yet to see a single hard fact that causes me any concern – some of the Bears behind this campaign obviously realise the weakness of the original keystone cases and are off on a number of fresh tangents and are now seeking researchers to come on board in an attempt to prove corruption between Celtic and I’ve lost count of the number of Public Bodies named.
Meanwhile it appears down Ibrox way the message is: ‘Quiet flows the Clyde’ although I’m not too sure about the River Plate 😆 One thing seems obvious – The Bears are too busy attempting to put Celtic in the dock than sort-out their own mess – I wonder why? And I wonder who that deflection suits most?
expatbhoy says:
January 28, 2014 at 10:25 am
Have always said it is a tightrope they are walking.
The questons I have are:-
-Given his track records can anyone trust Stockbridge’s figures and predictions.
-Are those who offerred the £2.5m unsecured loan still around?
-Even if they get the season tocket money in, without any cost cutting where exactly are inverstors getting a return?
– How will they ever get a return being that more money needs to be sunk into the club (possibly £50m a la McMurdo) to get to a point that they may manage to get some Champions League Money? e.g. Even if you made £20m profit a year from the CL and gave it all back to the investors you would needs two and half years to repay the original investment before even getting a return. So that means all going well investors may see return by Jan 2019!!!
Allyjambo says:
January 28, 2014 at 10:44 am
Smugas says:
January 28, 2014 at 9:58 am
“Idle gossip and speculation amongst the more timourous of our support.”
________________________________________________________
I presume the ‘timorous’ amongst their support are those with the guts to speak out against the tidal wave of WATP dogma! I like McMurdo’s assertion that there’s a company out there with £50m to pump into TRFC once they reach the Champions League.
=====================================
@AJ – I’m not sure if you realise that BPH is actually Blue Pitch Holdings. Remember them? The secret mystery offshore shareholders that no one knows anything about.
Appears McMurdo has a hot-line to them and knows intimate details about their finances – deluded doesn’t adequately describe it 😆
@ecobhoy
Having studied both bodies of work I can only come to the conclusion that your blogs are a lot nearer the truth than the fishing exercise that has been undertaken by the blue bloggers.
They seem to follow a predetermined path of believeing that Celtic and the GCC are in cahoots and no amount of reasoning will deter them from this idiotic route.
The evidence they have is circumstantial and they either don’t understand planning law or they realize that they have come so far that it would look foolish in the eyes of the bears if they abandon the chase.
As for the dossier they have presented to the EC I haven’t seen it although I’m working on trying to get sight of it.Although reading the Tewitter exchanges between certain bears I think this has been done in a slipshod manner with ‘new’ evidence being sent on a daily basis to the EC.An example being a bear receiving a denial of a FOI request from GCC and this adding to the mountain of wrongdoing between Celtic and GCC.
The intriguing part for me is when the State Aid argument has been kicked into touch it will become a mudslinging exercise that’s why IMHO the PR types are becoming involved as we know they can play the gullible bears like a fiddle and won’t waste an opportunity to paint Celtic in a bad light.
That the great wee country we live in I’m afraid.
Angus1983 says:
January 28, 2014 at 10:16 am
One for Iplayer later in the week.
That should be an interesting prog (although Ive never been much of a fan of Paxo).
I asked Glasgow City Council for sight of any Geotechnical Report on the Westhorn site.
Here is the email reply, received at 10.12 this morning.
“Dear Mr Clarke
This file is not available as its contents form part of a submission which is currently being examined by the European Commission. As such it forms part of a legal process and will not be released.
D
Senior Geologist
Geotechnical and Land Remediation
0141 287 7246 ”
———–
I’m not a lawyer, but I wonder why a public file already (presumably) in the public domain for some period of time, suddenly becomes unavailable just because it’s included in a legal submission?
It’s fascinating watching the Bear Land ‘Experts’ run increasingly faster in ever-decreasing circles while their Blue audience scratch their heads wondering what it all means, if anything! The Bears had been told to expect a ‘killer expose’ yesterday that would blow the lid off the allegedly corrupt land deal at Westthorn.
Well the story has gone off like a damp squib and no one appears to understand what it actually means but they’ve congratulated the author for his efforts and told him to keep on digging. I too would like to congratulate the author as he has inadvertantly blown his case out the water that Celtic got the ground on the cheap.
The Bears apparently believe Celtic got Westthorn below its true market value through an elaborate conspiracy involving Celtic, Glasgow Council officials, councillors, independent surveyors, the District Valuers office – the latter is a prime candidate for Bear ire – being an executive agency of HMRC.
Essentially the Bear case is that Westthorn has no abnormal ground conditions or that these have been greatly exaggerated to depress its selling price.
I have listed all of the abnormal Westthorn ground conditions brought about by its historical industrial legacy such as deep coal shafts and underground mine workings; the clay pit; the many problems associated with the two giant reservoirs which held 8 million gallons of water which might have been infilled with rubbish.
All of this easily accessible info has been ignored by the Bear Land ‘Experts’ who have pinned their hopes of proving their case by getting their hands on a Glasgow Council geotechnical report on Westthorn – good luck with understanding it by the way 😆 Some Bears have even suggested that palms be greased to get the report which is, of course, an incitement to Corruption of a Public Official.
So what gem of info has slipped out under the Bear radar. Quite simply, in yesterday’s story they repeated information from Glasgow Council that the size of the Westthorn site had effectively been halved in house construction capacity from 13.5 to 7 acres because of a previously ‘unknown’ BLAST ZONE.
The eagle-eyed Bear forensic investigator immediately headed down a cul-de-sac full speed ahead and declared that he had unearthed a ‘mortgage charge document’ lodged at Companies House by Celtic in April 2009 in favour of Glasgow Council which referred to the Westthorn area of ground as comprising 13.5 acres. Apparently this is proof positive of the conspiracy
Let’s apply some sanity to the wrongly described ‘mortgage charge document’ which actually notifies a Standard Charge – and not a mortgage – given by Celtic (purchaser) to Glasgow Council (seller) to legally protect the local authority’s sale condition that if Celtic sells the land on to a non-related company within 5 years of acquiring it then they must pay the Council 50% of any increased value. I think any normal person would readily accept that the seller and buyer of any land would know the area it covered.
Because the 7 acres isn’t mentioned on the Standard Charge there has been a hasty and ill-informed jump to an allegation of conspiracy – the truth afaik is that the document simply pre-dated the knoweledge that a ‘blast zone’ existed as it only arose during subsequent valuation negotiations. Moreover the area of the Westthorn ground sold to Celtic remains 13.5 acres – all that has changed is that only 7 acres can be used for housing which is the final nail in the coffin of the ludicrous Bear smear that Celtic got a sweetheart deal through corrupt processes.
However back in the ‘blast zone’ – what’s it all about? Well I never cease to be amazed at the lack of historical knowledge that Bears have and I would have thought the phrase might have merited at least a mention of the 19 brave Glasgow firefighters and salvagemen who died on the evening of 28 March 1960 when walls collapsed on them after a fire broke out in the Cheapside Street bonded warehouse owned by Arbuckle, Smith & Company on Clydeside. At least some still remember them and their sacrifice annually at the fire service tomb in Glasgow Necropolis on 28 March.
The ‘blast zone’ at Westthorn is created on the site’s eastern edge where Allied Distillers have a bonded warehouse with an estimated 400,00 casks of spirits including whisky. Much has been learnt since the Cheapside tragedy where the Victorian-era building was a veritable warren and a nightmare for fire fighters tackling the blaze.
A major problem was caused by the saturation of the wooden floors and support beams over decades of whisky spillage. The lack of ventilation and low ceilings made ventilation difficult and hindered dispersal of the ‘Angels Share’ which also contributed to the nature and seriousness of the blaze which could be seen from most parts of Glasgow. At one stage the gutters were actually running with whisky as thousands of wooden whisky casks exploded in the inferno.
The bond beside Westthorn is housed in around 20 separate buildings with modern precautions to prevent any fires or explosions and comprehensive measures designed to deal with any incident including a blast perimeter within which housebuilding is controlled under the Control of Major Accident Hazards (COMAH) Regulations enforced by the Health and Safety Executive. Anyone au fait with the split responsibilies over such sites with the local authority taking a relatively minor role would fully understand how the ‘blast zone’ was originally missed. However some who are ignorant of the facts find it easier to believe in conspiracy theories.
All of this Bear activity hasn’t produced a shred of evidence of a conspiracy and I suspect that ordinary Bears who aren’t deluded have long since reached that conclusion as well and hopefully they are directing their efforts towards saving their club instead of wasting energy on a fool’s errand to do down Celtic.
I’m sure the ordinary Bear must wonder what lies behind this frenetic campaign especially at such a critical time for Rangers. I know I do ❗
And my reply to Mr
” Dear Mr Linn,
Thank you for your prompt reply.
I am a wee puzzled as to why a document that has already been in the public domain can suddenly become unavailable simply because it is being used in a legal process which does not bear upon the authenticity of the document itself, as opposed to the use to which the documents findings may have been put, or ignored, for example, in the matter of land valuation or such like.
Could you perhaps clarify matters for me, please?
Yours,
John Clarke
john clarke says:
January 28, 2014 at 11:33 am
I asked Glasgow City Council for sight of any Geotechnical Report on the Westhorn site.
Here is the email reply, received at 10.12 this morning.
“Dear Mr Clark
This file is not available as its contents form part of a submission which is currently being examined by the European Commission. As such it forms part of a legal process and will not be released.
Senior Geologist
Geotechnical and Land Remediation
0141 287 7246 ”
———–
I’m not a lawyer, but I wonder why a public file already (presumably) in the public domain for some period of time, suddenly becomes unavailable just because it’s included in a legal submission?
=====================================================
Obviously you haven’t read my FoI post yesterday regarding the geotechnical report which can’t be released anyway because of an Inner House decision of the Court of Session which has nothing to do with the complaint to the EC alleging Celtic received illegal State Aid or, indeed, anything to do with Celtic
I would also doubt whether the ‘File’ referred to would have been open to the public as it quite literally will be all the communications, notes, memos, phone calls etc which have taken place on a number of East End land transactions involving Celtic and Glasgow Council. FoI afaik treats such type of internal material as ‘exempt’ in terms of FOISA.
What is a matter of public record are the the minuted council decisions. The contents of the geotechnical report were previously available but I can see the sense of the Glasgow Council position. They have been accused of corruption and they won’t do anything that prejudices their defence and even if they wanted to the lawyers will have said NO ❗
From what I can see Glasgow Council has been very patient, polite and tolerant in releasing info to the Bear Land ‘Experts’ but as with anyone with an obsession they can’t be satisfied unless they get the result that proves their case. That becomes difficult to satisfy when their case is a crock of sh*t.
Thinking about the massive amount of spinning that JI has done on behalf of the SS (Sinking Ship) The Rangers…
and about the role of Mr McCoist and Co in mis-selling the STs and spivs to the bewildered masses…
and about the various spivs who have plundered the carcass to finance their chateaux…
I wonder how all of this will be viewed by the Ibrox loyal, at some point down the line, when the truth of each of these roles is finally so obvious it can no longer be hidden?
Will a tax haven in the Carribean be far enough?
Mibbee CG better start digging a moat around said chateau?
I seem to remember tales of social unrest when the original club was in its final death throes. They think they are the peepil and they might (eventually) want to know who ran their club into the ground.
Of course, they might prefer to continue to believe it is all an east-end inspired conspiracy.
Keep spinning Jack, eh?
You reap what you sow.
😈
ecobhoy says:
January 28, 2014 at 11:02 am
I laughed out loud at that, which can be embarrassing when sitting on one’s own 😀 Which becomes even more embarrassing to be embarrassed when no one else is around 😳
I was wondering who BPH were and didn’t want to ask in case I appeared as dumb as…mmm McMurdo?
To put faith in Blue Pitch Holdings would be like The Foundation of Hearts putting faith in a promise of funding from Vladimir Romanov! At least we know who Vlad is!
Ecobhoy, AFAIK its the same COMAH regulations which make tynecastle unattractive to housing developers, MacFarlane & smith have a shedload of ethanol & other flamables stored onsite along with the distillary on the Westfield side of the ground, I think that’s why the new school was built on the grounds of the old highways depot which is slightly further away.
expatbhoy says:
January 28, 2014 at 10:25 am
ecobhoy,
This is a copy of the minutes of a meeting between fans and BS/CM in October 2013.
——————————————————————————————————————————————
“GL – What will be the low point for our cash balances in this current year?
BS – April of next year we will have over a million at that point plus we will also have an optional unsecured facility provided should we need it.
CM – the million is without counting any Rangers Retail dividend. So there will be more than a million at our lowest point. ”
—————————————————————————————————————————————
Profits from retail plus a million, plus a 2.5 million facility should see them fall over the line into next year, assuming the information is accurate.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I was recently browsing through my “Accountancy For Beginners” book.
On page 1, dealing with accounting rules, the first line says “The first Rule of Accounting is to assume nothing”
I think that Rule is even more relevant as regards the accounting methods employed at Ibrokes over the last 20 years.
wotpi,
” Given his track records can anyone trust Stockbridge’s figures and predictions.”
————————————————————————————————————————————
I don’t trust any source until I see their evidence, both Mather and Stockbridge made the claim in October and nobody at Rangers has said otherwise, the 120 day review suggests there is no imminent need of cash.
“-Are those who offerred the £2.5m unsecured loan still around?”
————————————————————————————————————————————–
We know there was a facility in October, no evidence to think it has been withdrawn.
” Even if they get the season tocket money in, without any cost cutting where exactly are inverstors getting a return?”
—————————————————————————————————————————————–
I believe the original investors who got their shares at 1p are on a free roll, the rest must wait and see how things pan out, most of the investments were relatively small.
-” How will they ever get a return being that more money needs to be sunk into the club (possibly £50m a la McMurdo) to get to a point that they may manage to get some Champions League Money? ”
—————————————————————————————————————————————-
It really depends how much money they need and what the money is for, I imagine the plan is to arrive in the top tier with a break even business model and the incentive for any investor is the gamble of European football.
I would suggest it will be nearer 5 million than 50 million, at the end of the day Rangers must be run within its domestic turnover, proceeds from Europe can only be the icing on the cake or they are back to where they were, insolvent.
It may take Rangers 2 years, 5 years or 15 years to catch up with Celtic, it will depend on football results.
ddmc says:
January 28, 2014 at 12:56 pm
Ecobhoy, AFAIK its the same COMAH regulations which make tynecastle unattractive to housing developers, MacFarlane & smith have a shedload of ethanol & other flamables stored onsite along with the distillary on the Westfield side of the ground, I think that’s why the new school was built on the grounds of the old highways depot which is slightly further away.
===============================================
Exactly ❗
Mmm. Indeed. Was it Blue Pitch or Margarita that transferred their investment to APT (??)?
What I want to know is how this £50m is going to be made available. Mr McMurdo seems to think they will just write a cheque and that will be that. For a company with a market cap of about £18m, that’s a big cheque.
Allyjambo says:
January 28, 2014 at 12:36 pm
ecobhoy says:
January 28, 2014 at 11:02 am
I laughed out loud at that, which can be embarrassing when sitting on one’s own 😀 Which becomes even more embarrassing to be embarrassed when no one else is around 😳
==================================================
Been there ❗ Done it ❗
Maybe we should design the T-shirt to raise cash for TSFM. I’m sure we have all been in that boat 😳
ecobhoy says:
January 28, 2014 at 11:39 am
1 0 Rate This <- that was me 🙂
Some Bears have even suggested that palms be greased to get the report which is, of course, an incitement to Corruption of a Public Official.
====================================================================
it wouldn't even surprise me if they were to fabricate such a document (if i thought for a minute they had the knowledge/skills to do so) and make a false submission to the press in order to sling more muck.
I have never known a more divided support in my life….their club is on life support…heading for the abyss….yet there is no plan to organise, fund raise, no trying to save "the" club
They have close to £500k sat in a bank account doing nothing, they want to use it to bring journalists/pundits to court for suggesting it's a new club
their participation in the IPO to save their club was farcical in 2 levels….1 less than 8000 bought in (considerably less if a few folk bought more than the minimum amount) 2. they bought in BELIEVING they were saving the club….fair enough if they all said they weren't buying in as they didn't trust Green/Stockbridge/Ahmed – oh no, they loved them and it was only a matter of time before they were "back" and timmy got what was long overdue
They have fans "spokesmen" and bloggers who are only interested in promoting themselves for a place on the board, to be the favoured lackey of the day, they are worse than the spivs who are only in it for money, these guys are supposed to love the club – but they will happily peddle the propaganda handed out to them by the various factions, just waiting for a leader with cash to ride along.
Don't they realise if they could unite, draw up a plan, fund raise….they could employ their own leader, a person with the skills and contacts needed to do what needs to be done – and it would be done on their behalf as they would own the bloody club,
When they die, all they will have left is their hatred of Celtic, and that is when things will get REALLY messy.
scottc says:
January 28, 2014 at 1:08 pm
======================================
Margarita ❗
Rubber cheques come in all sorts of sizes 😯
Geronimo,
” I think that Rule is even more relevant as regards the accounting methods employed at Ibrokes over the last 20 years.”
Is this assumption exempt?
Purely hypothetical question.
If TRFC are recognised as the same club and qualify for Europe sometime in the future,then how can the SFA put them forward to play as they still have the WTC and the unpaid tax/VAT of circa£14m due at admin one outstanding?.
There may have been grey areas wrt the WTC the first time round but there is no dubiety now.These bills are outstanding therefore,by my reckoning,until they are paid,TRFC,if accepted as the same club,cannot be granted a licence to play in Europe until these bills are paid.
Have I got this right?.
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
January 28, 2014 at 1:13 pm
======================
ah, but that was the company, not the club, this is the clumpany who own the assets of a company that house the club via a holding company which may or may not be owned by someone who is banned from a position in football but might yet be bought by another who would be barred for a previous clumpany insolvency event, so as you can see, it’s all perfectly straightforward
Debts – not same club
anything else – same club
get it?
expatbhoy says:
January 28, 2014 at 1:13 pm
Geronimo,
” I think that Rule is even more relevant as regards the accounting methods employed at Ibrokes over the last 20 years.”
Is this assumption exempt?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It’s not an assumption and I’m not Geronimo, as my username correctly states, I am his Cadillac.
Not The Huddle Malcontent on January 28, 2014 at 1:21 pm
1 0 Rate This
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
January 28, 2014 at 1:13 pm
——————————–
I get your point and I’ve no doubt our leaders at the SFA will try and hide behind one of the many disputed points you raise.
Admin2,if it happens,puts them between a rock and a hard place.
If they deduct TRFC 25pts they’re stating officially that TRFC are the same club.As far as I know UEFA insist on all taxes being paid,or a payment plan in place.i can’t see HMRC agreeing to any plan so if the SFA want TRFC to get a licence then someone is going to have to pay around £18m.
Can we just clear up a couple of things here.
Rangers’ fanbase and how many people go regularly is not the point.
Rangers’ turnover really isn’t the point either, it could be £19m or £190m, that doesn’t really matter on it’s own. The “too big to fail” argument is predicated on only looking at half of the picture. Which is just misleading people.
There are several much more important issues.
1, How much is the club losing, i.e. is expenditure greater than income.
2, How much cash does the club have, and does it have any credit facility when that runs out.
3, Does the club have enough in cash (or credit) to keep it going until a fresh input of income is received.
4, What happens if / when the cash runs out.
The story is as old as the hills, and in deference to the quality of this blog can I quote a wee bit of Shakespeare (however one chooses to spell it.)
“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.”
The key things here are profitability and cash flow (particularly for a business with no credit facility).
So they can keep going on about fanbase, turnover etc as long as they want and as often as they want. It is all just a smokescreen. How much money does Rangers have, how quickly is it spending that money, when will it run out, what do they do then.
Bottom line, they cannot just keep losing money, no matter how many people go to watch it.
That would be Dickens. Mr Micawber 😉
First time poster, lurker since RTC days. I have finally abandoned my lurker status to say a much overdue bravo to ecobhoy for all his recent detective work. Incredibly valuable and very interesting too. Only two nights ago I was debating a bluenose pal who brought up the story about Celtic land deals, almost as if it was the ace up his sleeve. Thanks to the efforts of ecobhoy he left with his tail slithering down his inside leg…
I have to say though that Celtic could do everyone a favour here and SAY SOMETHING! The silence coming from PL here is actually helping fuel the fires on this story. If Celtic have nothing to hide on this come out and say it. They could end this nonsense with one detailed statement (not a brief paragraph but something with a bit of meat on it, along the lines of what eco has done so well).
So quiet down ibrox way ……. Not a mention of sevco on clyde sports news it’s almost unheard of 😉
Even better BFDJ & Guidi on SSB tonight…… I know I know but it should be fun 🙂
The story is as old as the hills, and in deference to the quality of this blog can I quote a wee bit of Shakespeare (however one chooses to spell it.)
“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.”
========================
Dickens, I think
Tif
One can spend more than earn as long as one wants as long as one has someone willing to pay for it – first rule of parenting
One can continue to outspend earnings after being told not to but one should expect consequences – first rule of teeenagedom
Mandrake Root – Welcome. Lawell has precisely nothing to gain from speaking out IMHO. The MSM would gain. The RFC support would gain. The squirrel distribution company would certainly gain even more. Lawell would gain…nothing.
Smugas – I see where you’re coming from, but the dignified silence coming from Celtic Park is allowing this nonsense to build. It could easily be swept away with no loss of face to Celtic whatsoever.
Regarding McMurdo’s rantings (or should that be ravings?) , here is a historical (hysterical?) McMurdo gem just rebroadcast on twitter-
http://billmcmurdo.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/imran-hits-back/
Now what can you say about stuff like that? Some great comments, though.
It was a whoosh, wasn’t it Tif??
Another famous Micawber archetypal with the bears:
“I have no doubt I shall, please Heaven, begin to be more beforehand with the world, and to live in a perfectly new manner, if -if, in short, anything turns up.”
Til Finn,
A number of journalists are bandying about the figure of 500k per month trading losses, they seem to think Rangers will lose about 6 million this year. If this is the case then ticket price increases will half this, leaving them with a 3 million shortfall next year, which sounds about right. The business is roughly divided into 3 cost centres, players wages, other wages and general overheads, looks like they want to trim a million off each.
The interim accounts may be out sooner than last year, then we will know where they are.
ecobhoy says:
January 28, 2014 at 11:58 am
‘…Obviously you haven’t read my FoI post yesterday regarding the geotechnical report …’
———-
I did actually, ecobhoy, and thank you for it..
But I thought I would ask on my own account for the report, because I find it ridiculous that the actual technical report is not ‘free-standing’ from the administrative/ politicking bumph that may surround it,
which, of course, we might not be entitled to see (as the Court of Session has ruled)
That is, I would have thought that the text of the report ( if it’s an actual scientific report) will simply state the findings of technical fact, passing no other comment.
But if the GCC’s technical people are unprofessional enough to write a report and include in it their opinions on, for example, remedial costs, or land value, or make recommendations of a commercial or market nature, then I would like to know.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I know from personal experience what the Westhorn site was like. ( Actually, it was very like the site below McFarlane Lang’s biscuit factory in Braidfauld ,which in the middle 1960s required pile-driving on a massive scale when the Corporation (as it then was) wanted to replace pre-fabs with 3-storey tenements! Old mine workings and water courses)
Like you, I believe that there would have been nothing underhand about the valuation placed on Westhorn: the site was not good building land.
So the RST ( if indeed it is they) are peeing into the wind.
A professional, technical report made freely available would make that clear , and remove any doubt that may attach to the veracity and accuracy of an edited or summarised version.
neepheid says:
January 28, 2014 at 2:12 pm
‘..Dickens, I think.’
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Old ‘Punch’ cartoon: Wife (doing crossword) to husband: ‘Charles, who the dickens wrote ‘Oliver Twist’?
Mandrake Root says:
January 28, 2014 at 2:02 pm
‘….Celtic could do everyone a favour here and SAY SOMETHING! The silence coming from PL here is actually helping fuel the fires on this story. If Celtic have nothing to hide on this come out and say it.’
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Mandrake Root, welcome of course.
But your call is reminiscent of the many posts that seemed to want to put an unwarranted burden of responsibility on Celtic FC for the wickedness/fecklessnes/downright stupidity of RFC and/or the SPL/SFL and MSM!
Celtic FC owe nothing to the RST, and certainly cannot speak for GCC, with whom RST etc have got ‘problems’ ( and much less significant or relevant to them than the problems of RIFC!)
GeronimosCadillac says:
January 28, 2014 at 1:31 pm
… I’m not Geronimo, as my username correctly states, I am his Cadillac.
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Dear Sir,
Lacking an apostrophe and a wordspace, your username states nothing of the sort.
Yours faithfully,
Grammar Police (Aberdeen Division)
Big fan of the Bundesliga – SFA could do a lot worse than try to copy them instead of EPL – and I especially like the last paragraph of the article for some reason!
DW – Sports @dw_sports 30m
#Bundesliga posts record turnover for 9th-straight year. Firmly established as world’s 2nd-highest earning league http://www.dw.de/bundesliga-posts-record-turnover-due-to-champions-league/a-17392195 …
Bundesliga posts record turnover due to Champions League
The German Football League has said the Bundesliga’s 18 first-division clubs have secured record profits and revenues during the past season. The all-German Champions League final was a major driver.
The top-flight German football league secured record turnover of 2.17 billion euros ($2.96 billion) during the 2012-2013 season, the German Football League (DFL) announced Tuesday.
Last season’s turnover figures meant growth of 4.4 percent over the previous year, when the league topped the 2 billion euro mark for the first time. It is the ninth-straight season the Bundesliga has posted record takings.
DFL Chief Executive Christian Seifert added the Bundesliga clubs also logged record operational profits of 383.5 million euros.
“The Bundesliga is succeeding in the split between top level sports performance and economic rationality, especially compared to others in Europe,” Seifert said.
“Thanks also to the further increases with the media contracts that take effect this season, the league is on the road to extending its position as the second-strongest earning football league in Europe behind the English Premier League,” he added.
The increase of media money ensured it was the biggest revenue stream, with its 28.53 percent of the pie taking it past advertising. Advertising revenue also grew, however, as did merchandising.
While the Bundesliga saw a drop of an average of 2,000 spectators per match, it still remains the world’s best attended competition.
“This had mainly to do with the makeup of the league and with seven clubs playing in stadiums with a capacity of under 30,000 seats,” DFL President Reinhard Rauball said via release.
The success of the Bundesliga also meant good news for the state, as it received a record amount of 850 million euros in tax revenues from the clubs.
Mandrake Root
Celtic FC statement: “Celtic Football Club operates to the highest standards and with the utmost integrity. At a time when the Club is committed to investing in and improving areas around Celtic Park, not only for Celtic supporters but for the benefit of the local community, it is sad that these baseless accusations have been raised with the European Commission.
“Any suggestion that Celtic has been the beneficiary of state aid is preposterous – as ludicrous as any suggestion that we have benefited from soft loans from our bankers. The historic transactions referred to were negotiated with the Council on commercial terms at market rates.
“The Club will assist the Commission fully with the process and will not be deterred from our work to improve our local area.”
Mandrake Root says:
January 28, 2014 at 2:02 pm
First time poster, lurker since RTC days. I have finally abandoned my lurker status to say a much overdue bravo to ecobhoy for all his recent detective work. Incredibly valuable and very interesting too. Only two nights ago I was debating a bluenose pal who brought up the story about Celtic land deals, almost as if it was the ace up his sleeve. Thanks to the efforts of ecobhoy he left with his tail slithering down his inside leg…
I have to say though that Celtic could do everyone a favour here and SAY SOMETHING! The silence coming from PL here is actually helping fuel the fires on this story. If Celtic have nothing to hide on this come out and say it. They could end this nonsense with one detailed statement (not a brief paragraph but something with a bit of meat on it, along the lines of what eco has done so well).
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Thank you kind Sir for the praise – 😯
Celtic have made their position clear and dismissed the story as ‘preposterous’ which it is and for them to engage in any further explanation or debate would only lend credence to people who have shown they are mounting a sectarian and racist attack on Celtic.
The other problem that Celtic has is that they are also a party to the EC Investigation and therefore have to be careful wrt to any public statements and I imagine their lawyers will be keeping a tight reign on matters.
I actually don’t believe Celtic could ever convince the obsessives involved that they have got it wrong. It’s quite clear they have got it wrong and they keep abandoning their position as it is destroyed and now they are down to arguing about acreage on a form submitted to Companies House. At least Celtic submits forms as opposed to their own club which appears to have great difficulty in meeting statutory requirements.
The other problem that Celtic has is that a lot of the actual reports belong to Glasgow Council or the District Valuer or the Health & Safety Executive and it would not be right for Celtic to make them available or even comment on them – certainly not before the EC determines the issue.
The people now fuelling the fires of this story are those behind the PR agenda to deflect Bears from concentrating on what is happening at Ibrox. They have taken control for their own ends which IMO are actually different from the originators of the campaign.
It actually suits the Bears not to get the info so they can moan and claim: ‘It’s a conspiracy’ when it’s actually their ineptness and lack of investigating ability. Best to ignore them on an official level and let them keep making their ludicrous claims and complaints to all and sundry – it helps them make friends 😆
ecobhoy says:
January 28, 2014 at 1:12 pm
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EB, no offence intended and I’m sure none will be taken (and I never thought I would hear me write this) but it’s getting so bad I am beginning to wish you were back on the LNS report again.
Good forensic work though nonetheless, and I for one have never considered for a minute that Celtic have paid less than the going rate for any asset from anyone, and often paid over the odds.
In terms of Lennoxtown, apart from the tiny patch of land Celtic acquired, the rest of this “highly desirable greenbelt land” as the Bears would have you believe remains untouched, unsold, unwanted and gathering moss. The old hospital remains in the background of numerous TV shots of the training ground, dilapidated and falling down a little bit more each day.
In terms of London Road school, Celtic are paying £300,000 for this building and land when an almost identical former school, also in the north of the city, was sold by GCC in the past 2 years to a developer for half that price.
So keep digging away Ecobhoy – you’re doing a fine job to rebut JI’s latest and hopefully last attempt to deflect attention from the impending demise of the love that dare not speak its name
But really the only sub-terranean movement that interests me is the final twitchings of the cadaver of Rangers Football Club plc (In Liquidation).
Rangers are dead, remember that and everything else makes sense
54 (ways to deflect attention from the truth) to 0 (effect)
ecobhoy says:
January 28, 2014 at 1:10 pm
Allyjambo says:
I laughed out loud at that, which can be embarrassing when sitting on one’s own 😀 Which becomes even more embarrassing to be embarrassed when no one else is around 😳
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Been there ❗ Done it ❗
Maybe we should design the T-shirt to raise cash for TSFM. I’m sure we have all been in that boat
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Caption : “Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath (struck thru) SFM (inserted)” 😛
Ouch!! Okay, I’ve just taken a bit of a TD tanking and I’ll admit that after reading the responses above my reading of the situation was completely wrong. I’m away to stand in the corner and face the wall…
😳
neepheid says:
You spell it however you want