This is a reblog of an excellent post by http://glasnostandapairofstrikers.wordpress.com.
TSFM will be posting a new blog tomorrow dealing with the continued intimidation and threats that seem to follow New Rangers everywhere.
Thanks to Glasnost and Pair of Strikers for their permission to reblog. I am sure we will be hearing from them for some time to come.
the following information is 100% fact
The reason that the S.P.L and the S.F.A. were so insistant that Rangers concede all the prize money for finishing second is that they didn’t have it to give to them, as at present both the Clydesdale bank and Sky have not paid them a brown penny. It is also believed that several other sponsors are witholding money waiting on either the outcome of fresh negotiations
or dust to settle on any further sanctions on Rangers as this may affect any future involvement with both the S.F.A. and the S.P.L
So, the SPL insisted Rangers were to concede all prize money, because they couldn’t afford to pay the club the money. How very corrupt
“Some clubs are open to a 16-team top flight “by invitation” – which could see Rangers jump back to the top flight without going through three consecutive promotions – but that is not the majority view and it would be sure to attract hostility from those supporters who mounted the successful “no to newco” campaign this summer.”
Michael Grant, The Herald, 24/8/12
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/spl-make-belated-payment-but-clubs-still-short.18670974
Mr Grant
Can you apply your powers of investigative churnalism to provide us with a list, or even examples, of clubs who “are open to a 16-team top flight “by invitation””?
I think there would be large numbers of fans of such clubs that would like to make their views on this matter known to these clubs.
Mr Grant, have you contacted the clubs to ask them directly if they are ‘open’ to this form of corruption?
If not, where did you get this info? What steps have you taken to check its veracity?
Of course, you might just be relaying the contents of a SFA / SPL press release or a wee discussion with Regan or Doncaster… just say, or nod, cough – a wee secret signal like???
I would like to resist the opportunity to paraphrase Mr McCoist in his demand for info (that he already knew). So I will settle for – Perhaps you might consider it part of your remit as a quality churnalist to ask some of these questions on our behalf? Oh, and print the answers, even if they are ‘no comment’…
In fairness to you, Mr Grant, the rest of the aticle is fair warning for what lies ahead.
“The Scottish Football Association plans to set-up a committee including representatives of the SPL and Scottish Football League, almost certainly under an independent chairman, to progress reconstruction and possibly make recommendations by November.”
The juxtaposition of ‘almost certainly’ and ‘independent’ is particularly damning.
Mibbe you could ask your editor if it would be OK to express some sort of critical comment on the implied possibility that there is some sort of potential for the panel to be chaired by someone who is not independent?
Also, I am fairly sure that there are many readers who would like to know how the ‘representatives’ of the SPL and SFA are going to be selected? Another probing question for you right there. Not too late to ask you know!
Overall, I think this one gets a “Must Try Harder” score from me.
We’ve identified 3 over-arching themes:
1. How should our national game be governed?
2. How should we structure our football leagues?
3. How should our football clubs be owned and structured so that they are run in the interests of their fans?
————————————————————————————————————————-
Good blog and the three questions posited are worthy of some rigorous debate. A worthy attempt by TSFM to widen the parameters of debate in response to some of the, I think legitimate, criticisms that we were becoming too obsessed with all things involving the third division club. There are plenty of other places on this site for most of the comments on here.
When given the opportunity to look at other issues, with a few notable exceptions, there seems to be a lack of interest and that worries me. I appreciate the debacle in Govan is the big story but I believe it’s possible to look at the problem of reconstruction and remove ex-Rangers from the equation. The powers that be seem incapable of doing that but we should be above such things.
Apologies if already posted. A MUST READ!
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11583984&t=8707052
A powerful article on Lance Armstrong in the Guardian today, railing at his subversion of an entire sport over several years, and casting some light on the possible motives of those who actively or passively colluded in his charade for so long. The parallels to RFC under Murray are so obvious as to render any further comment superfluous.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/aug/24/how-lance-armstrong-strongarmed-cycling
If it is possible to sell a clubs history does it have to be all of its history or can you cherry-pick bits of it. Could I buy a particular victory or cup run for instance? Why not sell off individual games to the highest bidder? Could be a great money spinner when you think about it.
But then I ask myself the question – who actually owns the history? Is it the club? Is it the fans? Is it the players who played in a particular fixture or league campaign? Chris Hoy has apparently set himself up as some form of company to control his income. Do this company now own his gold medals?
Ridiculous? Of course it is. History is what it says on the tin. It is not a commodity that can be traded.
Cheats being stripped of titles, whatever next??
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2192864/Lance-Armstrong-banned-cycling-life-stripped-Tour-France-titles.html
Don’t expect to hear ANYTHING from the Invisible Man, Campbell Ogilvie.
He has taken a vow of silence as he confidently awaits his imminent elevation to that well established escape route for SFA self-servers.
Next stop is the gravy train to NYON.
It would be mean spirited of me to suggest that he has not earned such a reward.
Mediocrity should not be underestimated.
Lance Armstrong to return as “The Lance Armstrong”?
Will the Tour De France be able to survive without Lance Armstrong.
Hasn’t he been punished enough.
Victimised by the USADA,
It would never happen in this country.
First of all we have to decide upon our idealogical standpoint ie what does or should Scottish Football stand for? what is it’s purpose?
Is it trying to be an English-Premiership-Lite with it’s main focus being maximizing commercial revenues, maximise the earnings and wages of all those participating ie a footballing gravy train that at it’s core focusing on maximising the amount of money taken from supporters, sponsors, broadcasters etc. ie the football is a huge money generating machine enriching those who participate and make their living from it.
Or is Scottish Football about providing a platform for local rivalries, towns and cities teams to compete with each other and developing the best local footballing talent for their own benefit and also the national teams benefit?
To summarise is Scottish football about Scottish football first and foremost or is it about maximising the money earned and money taken from those who view and watch who ultimately finance the game through their attendances, TV subscriptions, purchases etc.
Who is Scottish football for? what is Scottish football for? – until we resolve the fundamentals in our own minds about what it is we want our clubs and the football authorities to provide and aim for?
To give an example using Celtic as a context is the ultimate goal Henrik Larssons & Victor Wanyama and £800+ season tickets or is it James Forrest and Tony Watt and maximum £400 season tickets?
What do we want?
Good Morning.
So SPL have paid some of the money due to clubs. What the hell is going on, have they been attending the Craig Whyte Accountancy Academy?
From reading the article below it would certainly seem that the fundamental factor driving Charles Green’s The Rangers FC is to maximise bums on seats and taking in season ticket money as youth now taking a back seat at Ibrox as new signings come in.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jimmy-sinclair-on-rangers-youth-stars-1276576
never give up never give in
Now what film was that line quoted ?
Maybe instead of comparing Rfc* to Jaguar he should have compared them to Leopard
after all it doesnt change its spots
Fifer @10-34
Are you saying that all the sponsor’s who put money into our game will not part with the money they contractually owe unless a team who have trampled over every single rule in the game are returned to the top division asap.If this is true we truely are living in an era were thieving,lying,cheating get rewarded.If this is true then our game is dead and unlike dead club it will never recover.
I suppose i should not be surprised as the 2 main sponsor’s are a bank and sky tv .
I have said in the past i would rather watch my team play in the park than be associated with this corrupt setup.
Long Time Lurker says:
August 24, 2012 at 06:49
‘I have just made a request to the Ministry of Justice, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 for information on (and I paraphrase):
(a) When did the FTTT conclude between MIH v HMRC re use of EBTs by RFC;……..”
—
Good thinking. Well done.
Fifer says:
August 24, 2012 at 10:34
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is 100% correct you maybe talking mince, unless you can produce evidence to support your claim?
Timabhouy says:
August 24, 2012 at 11:48
never give up never give in
Now what film was that line quoted ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Galaxy Quest….how sad am I?
awaiting source approval
tomtom says:
August 24, 2012 at 10:58
If it is possible to sell a clubs history does it have to be all of its history or can you cherry-pick bits of it. Could I buy a particular victory or cup run for instance? Why not sell off individual games to the highest bidder? Could be a great money spinner when you think about it.
But then I ask myself the question – who actually owns the history? Is it the club? Is it the fans? Is it the players who played in a particular fixture or league campaign? Chris Hoy has apparently set himself up as some form of company to control his income. Do this company now own his gold medals?
Ridiculous? Of course it is. History is what it says on the tin. It is not a commodity that can be traded.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can I buy the weather from 1976?
Historically it was the hottest summer on record since Noah was a boy!
Fifer says:
August 24, 2012 at 12:16
awaiting source approval
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But you might never meet that taxi driver again?….:) only joking …we await your confirmation!
paulmac says:
August 24, 2012 at 12:21
tomtom says:
August 24, 2012 at 10:58
If it is possible to sell a clubs history does it have to be all of its history or can you cherry-pick bits of it. Could I buy a particular victory or cup run for instance? Why not sell off individual games to the highest bidder? Could be a great money spinner when you think about it.
But then I ask myself the question – who actually owns the history? Is it the club? Is it the fans? Is it the players who played in a particular fixture or league campaign? Chris Hoy has apparently set himself up as some form of company to control his income. Do this company now own his gold medals?
Ridiculous? Of course it is. History is what it says on the tin. It is not a commodity that can be traded.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can I buy the weather from 1976?
Historically it was the hottest summer on record since Noah was a boy
——————————————————————
If you believe in Noah then I’d have no problem selling you the weather. Just send the money to my Nigerian bank account 😀
NeilR says
August 24, 2012 at 10:49
Yes, it would be very easy to change the name Neil Armstrong with that of Rangers FC (and/or Murray) and come out with an accurate account of the Rangers story. Isn’t it notable too, how a journalist can come out with a story about cheating and get across his disgust at the cheat, unlike the so called journalists we have in Scotland who continue to try to deflect from the truth.
Off topic but can I get some advice from the computer literate guys on here.
I foolishly emailed both FF and RM asking some questions (I know..) my questions were deleted, but what I am worried about is can these sites and others capture my IP and find out my real name and address, I am worried about if someone disagrees with my question or club I support I may get unwanted emails etc.. please guys put my mind at rest thanks
paulmac says:
August 24, 2012 at 12:13
all im allowed to say is source is an employee
paulmac, By Grabthar’s Hammer you are indeed sad 🙁
Fifer says:
August 24, 2012 at 10:34
To be fair, I think this is an opinion that is doing the rounds with the Bears just now. I heard a similar view elsewhere.
Unfortunately I don’t think the argument stands up. (Noting further evidence awaited)
The team that appeared to finish second in the league last year has been found to have a prima facie case to answer on illegal registration of players due to potential undisclosed side contracts (also withholding of tax, NI contributuions etc last year?). This is the SPL investigation (yet to happen?) that is a result of the Harper McLeod report. Please correct me if this is innaccurate – the details might have slipped.
In such a circumstance, I would not be at all surprised if the awarding body (SPL) withheld prize monies from the club under investigation until such time as the investigation reported on the status of the achievement of second place.
Should the second place award be untainted by cheating (seems like a stretch of the imagination at this stage) then the award would stand and the prize money should be sent to the olddco and presumably included in the creditors pot.
The situation is less clear to me if the award of second place is withdrawn as a consequence of the club having been seen to cheat. We could come up with all sorts of scenarios for redistribution of the money. However, it is clear that, in such a case, no prize money should be transferred to a club found to have cheated.
Now if I was running an organisation faced with these circumstances, I would place the prize money in a secure account where it could not be touched until such time as the issue of cheating had been decided upon. That way the money would be available for distribution when the result of the investigation was available.
This might mean that I had a cash flow problem elsewhere in the organisation, but still had access to money to pay out if it was found to be necessary to do so.
In essence, what I suggest is that the evidence in the public domain strongly supports withholding of the award money as a norm, rather than vice versa.
It is somewhat ironic that this is what the management of Rangers Football Club manifestly failed to do over a period of several years when they were well aware of the possibility of facing potentially serious levels of outstanding tax payments and associated penalties.
Overall, I don’t see any way in which the Newco has any right to prize money from last year (and I note that Fifer does not claim that they do). From what I hear, this is more about the Bears vindictive (in my view) hope that the game cannot survive without their team in the top flight.
They really ought to have a look at the article highlighted in the post below.
Starofdavid says:
August 24, 2012 at 10:37
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11583984&t=8707052
Truly fabulous.
Also see
stevensanph says:
August 24, 2012 at 06:50
http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/08/24/therangersdebate/
for some reasoned argument (and possibly more accurate in detail than mine above).
Of course, if someone can provide evidence that strongly supports the earlier argument put forward by Fifer I will happily accept my error. Such evidence would have to show, I think, that the SPL does not have access to funds to pay out the award and no means of raising such funds in a reasonable manner. Not easy I would have thought.
My hypothesis is only that and is not presented as fact. Feel free to kick it about. 🙂
Apropos of nothing, The Rangers “World Record Crowd” is but as truthful as the Southampton transfer fee.
From The Grauniad:
Two English League Two play-off finals at Wembley have comfortably exceeded Rangers’ recent crowd: Bristol Rovers 3-1 win over Shrewsbury Town in 2007 (61,589) and Gillingham’s 1-0 victory over the same unfortunate Salopians in 2009 (53,706).
And there’s more here, http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/aug/22/the-knowledge-opening-day-best-ever
Timalloy says:
they only have your email address mate
piston broke says:
August 24, 2012 at 13:13
wrong!! thse were play offs not a league game
Interesting read:
http://rangersfightback.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/exclusive-rangers-to-be-fined-upwards-of-10-million/
Even if it is nothing more than paper talk & speculation at this moment The Rangers are being linked with signing Morgaro Gomis and Swedish international Daniel Larsson.
They are playing in the Fourth Division of Scottish Football FFS – why on earth would they need to bring either of these players to Ibrox to play in that division or even the ones in between the bottom tier and the SPL?
Iam not even concerned whether Charles Green can afford them or not or what impact such signings have on their financial stability from a footballing perspective they are simply not needed.
If Rangers can’t win that division with the players they’ve already got or with other Scottish players that are available then what’s the point?
Rangers have the perfect opportunity to re-focus and rebuild along more sustainable and beneficial lines but instead it seems like hell for leather to recreate the deceased, like everything they did and how they operated for the last quarter century and ultimately lead to their demise was perfectly okay, as if it it was how they should be and what they should aspire to be again?
As I said I simply don’t get it – well actually I do get it. Charles Green wants to sell out the stadium and rake in as much money as he can from The Rangers ie from The Rangers fans.
The problem here is that too many of you still see your clubs as worthy of support.
It is your clubs that have allowed “Rangers” to be brought in under a fradulent guise. It is your clubs that agree to be in the same organisation and to play against them. It is your clubs “wot dunnit” – support them if you wish but to support them in any way also supports the actions of the governing bodies in allowing “Rangers” to be ressurected.
Me – I am out because of the above – no watching games, no paying subscriptions, no ST’s no going to games – because the whole game is now a charade and a fraud – to support my team I must also support grand lrceny and fraud. No thank you.
Your clubs are not your children to be supported through unconditional love regardless of their actions. When they are part of organisations that take actions of which you strongly disapprove, the morally courageous stance is to walk away – however much it hurts. All of your clubs are part of the problem- none of them had the moral courage to say “No”.
Fifer: The reason the money has not been paid out is because it would be illegal for the money to be paid out to anyone, the money is going into the creditors pot of RFC and will be shared equally. Charlie Green has absolutely nothing to do with this money, he is just the front man for Ticketus who own a Tribute Act of RFC. That money is not going anywhere but to the liquidators. because RFC Tribute Act are NOT RFC.
Fifer says:
August 24, 2012 at 10:34
1 17 i
Rate This
the following information is 100% fact
The reason that the S.P.L and the S.F.A. were so insistant that Rangers concede all the prize money for finishing second is that they didn’t have it to give to them, as at present both the Clydesdale bank and Sky have not paid them a brown penny. It is also believed that several other sponsors are witholding money waiting on either the outcome of fresh negotiations or dust to settle on any further sanctions on Rangers as this may affect any future involvement with both the S.F.A. and the S.P.L
So, the SPL insisted Rangers were to concede all prize money, because they couldn’t afford to pay the club the money. How very corrupt
==============================================================
Fifer, in summary, TV companies and sponsors won’t touch Scottish Football because Rangers went bust after building up debts of £134m, probably trading insolvently, over a period of years? You can see why they’d be reluctant – they’ve seen the scam to allow bust club to carry on as if nothing happened. Why risk reputational damage in being associated with such a club?
Moving on to the focus of the blog and Point 3”. How should our football clubs be owned and structured so that they are run in the interests of their fans?”
In the McLeish’s Review of Scottish Football he recommended that the SFA Board should include a minimum of 2 independent non-executive Directors. I’d suggest that the same should apply to clubs, at minimum those in the top league. This is standard good practice for businesses. In addition the growing Supporters Direct expertise should be harnessed to provide a fans’ representative p lace on the Board of each club. This isn’t to underestimate the difficulties of challenging an autocratic owner – very experienced businessmen were rolled over by David Murray and Craig Whyte at Rangers – Ellis and King are both more successful in money-making terms than either Murray or Whyte. Johnston’s and other Board members’ reported concerns re. Whyte, as expressed to Murray, were ignored as the £1 sale went through. Johnston’s parting shot on being removed by Whyte was at least in some quarters, regarded as hubris and Rangers fans looked to the newest saviour in town. And that’s the other problem – the gullibility of football fans and their desire to give away their hard-earned to just about anyone or to believe what’s too good to be true – Gretna in Europe? Dundee signing Claudio Cannigia? Their fans knew it couldn’t last. Some Rangers fans were shouting in the wilderness for years that Murray was taking more out of the club than he was putting in – aided and abetted by the Succulent Lamb brigade this mythology was allowed to gain credence and go unchallenged.
So, independent non-execs, elected fans reps trained and supported by Supporters Direct for starters.
Repayment of prize money and titles and trophies rescinded is the least that Rangers DESERVE.
Fifer: Regarding “rangersfightback”, interesting reading, at least it is coherent. The problem for anyone on the side of RFC and RFC Tribute Act whose purpose is trying to implicate the SFA and SPL in being incompetent is that they are not just incompetent but also corrupt. They are corrupt in FAVOUR of RFC and it’s Tribute Act. So anyone wanting rules applied and investigations into this Establishment should be prepared to understand that once the truth is exposed it will certainly not be of any benefit to RFC or RFC Tribute Act.
Ordinary Fan says:
August 24, 2012 at 13:22
Not what ive heard, the 5 way agreement didnt state any money would be paid to Oldco/D&P
i agree, that is where it should go to = creditors
Fifer says
wrong!! thse were play offs not a league game.
From the article, old boy.
“I’m not having the argument that these weren’t genuine fourth-tier matches. They were games between two fourth-tier clubs to determine the final placings and promotion spots from the fourth-tier league. If that’s not fourth-tier, what is?
“However, even if you don’t accept that, here have also been three higher fourth tier crowds in Brazil in the past two years, all involving the Santa Cruz club.”
Worth a read.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
August 23, 2012 at 21:43
57 2 i Rate This
Unconfirmed from Twitter
A member of Strathclyde’s finest has proferred that 9 former RFC* Chairmen/Directors & 5 former managers will shortly be assisting enquiries
========================
Hardly surprising.
If there is to be an investigation into fraud then the investigating body are obviously going to speak to the people closest to it. Whether as witnesses or alleged offenders.
SPL rules preclude any prize money being handed over whilst any debts to fellow members remains unpaid and indeed the SPL can legitimately offset any debts owed to members from prize money before the balance is then paid ie Rangers should only get what if anything is left after Hearts, Celtic, Dundee Utd etc have been repaid in full.
Fifer: D&P are not the liquidators. That’s the problem for the 2 RFC’s. There will be no Ticketus influence anymore.
Fifer says:
August 24, 2012 at 13:14
0 0 Rate This
Interesting read:
http://rangersfightback.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/exclusive-
rangers-to-be-fined-upwards-of-10-million/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
An interesting read. I particularly liked the last bit:
“The Rangers EBT case that I maintain is at best a clerical error is a convenient excuse to extort yet more money from Rangers to fill the SPL coffers.”
Clerical error? Really?
Did I say an interesting read? That should be incredible. As in not credible.
Ordinary Fan says:
August 24, 2012 at 13:22
Ok, you honestly believe that the money is going into a creditors pot that D&D will be drawing their wages from? I strongly believe this money has been distributed out under the 5 way agreement.
As for Rangers tribute act, sevco, etc…….. as I think a Jambo said many posts ago,,,,, Its Rangers whetehr you like it or not as that what it reads on SFL3 and on the Sports results on Saturdays, you may like calling them what you like as we all have names for rival teams, but ordibary fan you are not lol
Fifer: Also the 5 way agreement is meaningless. It’s like me agreeing to use your money to pay my debts. If I managed to do so without your say so I would be arrested.
Fifer: I have read enough to understand that money is going nowhere but to the creditors pot, which is where ALL money owed to RFC will be going.
Fifer says:
August 24, 2012 at 13:14
Interesting read:
Well, only in so much as it shows the incredible mental gymnastics required to present the facts of this case as showing some sort of persecution of the Southside Blues. This is pure distortion and deflection.
To any True Blues out there reading this:
Your team has been offered an unprecedented lifeline that has involved the bending and breaking of rule after rule in favour of your team.
The guys telling you otherwise a selling you (literally) a story.
If you want your club to survive in the long term you would need to get together and focus on the people running your club, very possibly into the ground.
The people responsible for your current predicament have tried to walk away (Mr Plod might be having a word though). They have left you in the hands of some fairly ruthless spivs who are intent on taking every last penny they can.
If Green and his compadres ride off into the sunset with their ill gotten loot, where is your next safety net going to come from? (A. probably the SFA – though it is going to get harder for them to get away with it…)
The rest of Scottish football is appalled at (a) the disgraceful behaviour of your previous and current owners (those that have been publicly declared) and (b) the disgraceful behaviour of the SFA / SPL / SFL attempts to gerrymander the system in favour of a single club to the disadvantage of all the rest.
If the events of this summer tell you anything, it should be that you cannot take the rest of the game, the so-called wee teams, for granted.
Nobody Like US, We don’t Care?? Mibbee you should?
Fifer: Why would D&P be given anything from the creditors pot? They are not owed anything, Charlie Green’s money was used to pay them the balance when he bought the Assets, the rest they took when they were doing the job Ticketus sent them to do.
Zilch says:
August 24, 2012 at 13:50
Agree with most , We dont want parachuted up Fact! We want RFFF to pay all the small creditors back what we owe, we want to come back up throughthe leagues preferably with our youth rather than buying all these players, that’s when I believe this reconstruction has been discussed by all SPL/SFA and that disgusts me also, We were guilty last seaon of not paying tax and NI (well that shyster Whyte is) and we deserve to be at the bottom and work our way up. As i said before, Im not proud what has happened, but we are still Rangers Football team and the discussions on this blog are about corruption and the Media not what Rangers should be called etc.. thats when it gets blown out of proportion.
The whole exercise in semantics here is nonsense.
There are now no football clubs in Scotland. Football is a sport based upon the rules of the game and of the associated bodies which run the game. In Scotland no such situation exists. SEVCO/ rangers / whatever are not a legitimate football club in any manner. The organisation which breached its own rules to allow them to play has further ensured that no valid games are taking place under the auspices of the SFA. The SFA has so breached the rules of the game that it cannot be regarded as a valid governing body. Its all encompassing role moreover ensures that no valid football is taking place. You may think you are watching football you are not. The WWF analogy is the correct one. Already we are seeing the league placement for this season being decided and reconstruction being put in place to ensure league fixing on a grand scale.
I am completely scunnered here. It’s a bit like being in a psychology experiment with rooms full of stooges telling you 2 and 2 = 5 – you keep shouting it’s 4 but no-one listens. They are waiting to see how long it is before everybody cracks and accepts their lies as truths.
The SFA by putting in a club with no valid credentials into the league and all of the clubs by accepting that decision have rendered the entire game fraudulent. Yes sevco/rangers /whatever are fraudulent but when you compete in any sport against invalid players – knowingly – then all of those involved cease to be involved in a legitimate sporting activity. It is theatre, entertainment, call it what you will – whilst this club remain unlawfully in the league, nothing which takes place anywhere in the SFA realm can be considered football.
Fifer: “we don’t want parachuted up”, RFC are gone, however its Tribute Act HAS BEEN “parachuted up”.
Fifer says:
August 24, 2012 at 13:14
“Bullying, Blackmailing, and Extortion.
There you have it, the end game of the SPL revealed. To continue their existence they must plug a 10 million pound black hole. The Rangers EBT case that I maintain is at best a clerical error is a convenient excuse to extort yet more money from Rangers to fill the SPL coffers.”
Can someone remind me where Rangers paid their dues to society that allows them to take the moral high ground in relation to accusing others of bullying, blackmailing and extortion?
Can anyone just remind me of the simple rules and penalties in the football world wide that deal with incorrect registration of players be that from a school match to a CL final?
The whole disclosure of players payments is there to ensure the game is honest. The rules are there to identify teams using various rouses such as trying to gain an unfair advantage through tax dodges or having players paid by third parties who may try to influence the results of games. Why is that so difficult to understand?.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the SPL try and get cash out of the dead beast after all it appears that it stole enough from home and abroad over the years. However I agree it is a bit unsavioury if it were to happen.
The oldco is dead, the money is gone.
What is required is titles stipped and those involved at a high level banned sine die (there we go with that damned Latin again) from Scottish Football.
As discussed on SSB I agree that the players turned out in good faith so it is a bit unfair that they should have to loose the right to say they won a league or cup when they put the effort in on the pitch.
However the rules are the rules.As a player you have to play by them or the game ends up in chaos. Once again why is that so difficult to understand?.
Ordinary Fan says:
August 24, 2012 at 13:54
So, you saying that D&D are still not running the Oldco administration untill BDO take over?
serious question as I was led to believe this was the case.
Fifer: they are running the administration, not the liquidation, the liquidators are the ones who have control over all the money. D&P cannot allocate a single penny to any creditors, and the SFA and SPL most certainly have absolutely no legal right to do so either.
Been offline for a good while due to house move, etc.
Sorry to see RTC close down, but hope this blog goes from strength to strength.
Keep it up guys.
WOTTPI says:
August 24, 2012 at 14:01
So, by your reckoning Arsenal and ALL those EPL and Euruopean teams who have ran EBT’s and similar should be thrown out of Football? all these teams like Atheltic Madrid etc who owe the Spanish taxman millions, Barcelona, Real, etc…..cannot in reality afford the players who play for them.
Ordinary Fan says:
August 24, 2012 at 14:05
Who is paying D&D then for their administrating duties just now then?
Fifer
2 wrongs do NOT make a right, what does it matter what Arsenal or Spanish or other teams have done or are doing. We don’t live in Spain or England or anywhere else. We live in Scotland, we follow Scottish football, that is all we can affect and have any mandate to argue and attempt to change or have the rules properly implemented.
if Rangers have cheated, lied and gained sporting and financial advantages then they should be punished appropriately and commensurately.
let other countries deal with their football clubs and the football and tax authorities – we can only deal with ours. That is how it should be.
Your post is whataboutery.
Fifer: there is a good site called the swissramble which has done articles on various Spanish clubs. Despite the debts of Barca and Real, their turnover means the debts are more than supportable.
Re: other teams using EBT’s – they should suffer the same punishment/consequences that is coming to Rangers IA, assuming it is against their individual league rules. I believe Spanish leagues may not require all payments to be declared, and, therefore, there would be nothing wrong with using an EBT scheme like Rangers, apart from the tax liability. Of course, other countries have very different tax laws, so EBT schemes are really limited to the UK.
If Arsenal or whoever has used them, and thus gained a sporting advantage, they should be punished.
Charlie Brown says:
August 24, 2012 at 14:14
Just like we can’t mention the Kelly years!
I do not know if this has been covered on Scottish Football Monitor, I recall a few posts on RTC…
But the asbestos thing at Ibrokes, last I heard they had a temporary licence until end of August 2012, as this is fast approaching, does anyone know if an extension has been granted (as per usual with cheaters fc) or will they have to move out while asbestos removed.
stevensanph says:
August 24, 2012 at 14:16
Good point
Fifer: They have probably been paid up front from the Ticketus money given to Green to buy the assets, if not then obviously they will be paid by the Liquidators when they are done doing their bit. Just as BDO will need paying.
Fifer: In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if BDO use the money the SFA and SPL are kindly holding onto for them.
Cortes says:
August 24, 2012 at 13:12
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paulmac, By Grabthar’s Hammer you are indeed sad
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Thanks for confirmaing my own fears…
Ordinary Fan says:
August 24, 2012 at 14:22
Cheers
Fifer
Correct.
If it is found that they have broken the laws of the land and the rules of football then yes throw them out.
Uefa are clearly aware of the potential damage being done to the game as a whole and indeed the wider society by the activities of some clubs who are living beyond their means.
Be it a football club or a business you have to work within a sustainable financial model.
It is a simple argument.
You on the other hand appear to believe that there is one rule for the big and powerful (Rangers and the rest you mention) and one rule for the rest. e.g Airdrie & Gretna (Liquidation), Sion & Spartans (incorrect player registration).
(The difference with Arsenal’s EBT is fo course that they decided to take their medicine and cough up the cash to the taxman. That perhaps took the heat of them in terms of the EPL and FA investigating whether or not the payments were included on player registrations. As far as I know no-one has raised that as an issue therefore the Gunners are wholly in the clear or the English Footballing Authorities are not going to investigate or perhaps have it on the back burner awaiting the outcome of the Rangers debacle).
WOTTPI
You on the other hand appear to believe that there is one rule for the big and powerful (Rangers and the rest you mention) and one rule for the rest. e.g Airdrie & Gretna (Liquidation), Sion & Spartans (incorrect player registration).
Where do I ever mention that??? I dont want to see ANY team liquidated from football. Why should fans suffer for the likes of money men who ruin football teams?
Fifer your argument is utterly spurious. If you have any evidence that Real Madrid or Arsenal or any other club has breached the rules of its organising bodies and failed to meet its tax obligations then as decent concerned citizen you must present that evidence to the relevant authorities and trust that it is investigated and if the allegations are proved then the appropriate sanctions will be meted out.
That affects RFC – how?
Re: The Kelly years – if cash was siphoned off from cash paid at the gate then you must present ecidence that is substantial to back it up – we all know the rumpours of underreported crowd sizes – they may or may not be true but unless concrete evidence can be providied the allegation is baseless.
Fifer says:
August 24, 2012 at 10:34
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the following information is 100% fact
The reason that the S.P.L and the S.F.A. were so insistant that Rangers concede all the prize money for finishing second is that they didn’t have it to give to them, as at present both the Clydesdale bank and Sky have not paid them a brown penny. It is also believed that several other sponsors are witholding money waiting on either the outcome of fresh negotiations or dust to settle on any further sanctions on Rangers as this may affect any future involvement with both the S.F.A. and the S.P.L
So, the SPL insisted Rangers were to concede all prize money, because they couldn’t afford to pay the club the money. How very corrupt
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Fifer, in summary, TV companies and sponsors won’t touch Scottish Football because Rangers went bust after building up debts of £134m, probably trading insolvently, over a period of years? You can see why they’d be reluctant – they’ve seen the scam to allow bust club to carry on as if nothing happened. Why risk reputational damage in being associated with such a club?
Moving on to the focus of the blog and Point 3”. How should our football clubs be owned and structured so that they are run in the interests of their fans?”
In the McLeish’s Review of Scottish Football he recommended that the SFA Board should include a minimum of 2 independent non-executive Directors. I’d suggest that the same should apply to clubs, at minimum those in the top league. This is standard good practice for businesses. In addition the growing Supporters Direct expertise should be harnessed to provide a fans’ representative p lace on the Board of each club. This isn’t to underestimate the difficulties of challenging an autocratic owner – very experienced businessmen were rolled over by David Murray and Craig Whyte at Rangers – Ellis and King are both more successful in money-making terms than either Murray or Whyte. Johnston’s and other Board members’ reported concerns re. Whyte, as expressed to Murray, were ignored as the £1 sale went through. Johnston’s parting shot on being removed by Whyte was at least in some quarters, regarded as hubris and Rangers fans looked to the newest saviour in town. And that’s the other problem – the gullibility of football fans and their desire to give away their hard-earned to just about anyone or to believe what’s too good to be true – Gretna in Europe? Dundee signing Claudio Cannigia? Their fans knew it couldn’t last. Some Rangers fans were shouting in the wilderness for years that Murray was taking more out of the club than he was putting in – aided and abetted by the Succulent Lamb brigade this mythology was allowed to gain credence and go unchallenged.
So, independent non-execs, elected fans reps trained and supported by Supporters Direct for starters.
1. How should our national game be governed?
2. How should we structure our football leagues?
3. How should our football clubs be owned and structured so that they are run in the interests of their fans?
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* Well, the nonsense of three bodies must be ended. I’d like to see the SPL dismantled above all else. Easier now that the ‘big two’ has become the solitary one. Governing bodies must also conduct more of their business in public so that people like Tommy from Glasgow don’t have to phone into every radio show using a different alias to argue that it’s all masonic conspiracy – which, for all we know, it might in fact be! On this point, the words of JFK echo down the years:
‘The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it.’
* The 4 x a season monotony has to be ended too. Therefore an increased league that allows an adequate amount of teams to satisfy simple H/A fixtures and also accomodates 2 or 3 up 2 or 3 down with evt. play-off finals.
* Chairmen/owners must be completely transparent. No secret deals to buy clubs, no straw men. At present who’s to know if owners aren’t whitewashing drug money, profits from arms sales or even mafia-style crime?
Cortes says:
August 24, 2012 at 13:12
paulmac, By Grabthar’s Hammer you are indeed sad
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OT I know, but I see I’m not the only Galaxy Quest fan here (insert nerd smiley here)
Fifer says:
August 24, 2012 at 13:58
… we want to come back up through the leagues …
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Fifer – I for one appreciate your tone (and patience with the guard dogs), so thanks for that. 🙂
Please note – in the nicest possible way – that TRFC are not coming “back” through anywhere. They are starting in the 3rd Division as (and I know this isn’t very palatable) a new club.
Not sure how much credence to give this tweet but I must say I am sceptical.
Anyone eles hear this??? Sevco big fine coming their way I can reveal that the SPL endgame is very simple and one we’ve all come accustomed to, blackmail and extortion. The SPL investigation into Rangers is a foregone conclusion that will ultimately lead to the club being fined upwards of £10 million.
My source from Harper MacLeod had this to say on the matter:
“…the investigation into Rangers is has already been decided but due process has to be seen to have taken place. In the position of the SPL you certainly don’t involve a heavyweight such as Lord Nimmo without being sure things are going your way…
…the SPL aren’t at all interested in Rangers titles, what they are interested in however is the potential to recoup 10 years worth of prize money…
…the SPL care of Lord Nimmo will announce Rangers guilt and a fine totaling between £10-20 million pounds will issued. The initial fine will be overinflated as Rangers will inevitably appeal.
This will cause a Mexican standoff between Rangers, the SPL, the SFA and FIFA. If Rangers take their case to CAS then there’s a strong chance of the fine just being reduced. If they take their appeal outside of football as they did with the transfer ban then they will incur the wrath of FIFA who have little enough patience as it is on this matter. If Rangers refuse to pay citing that the newco aren’t liable for the damages then the SPL will threaten to refuse entry on the grounds that Rangers newco agree’d to pay the debt of the oldco…
…one things for sure though this saga isn’t finished just yet…
Bullying, Blackmailing, and Extortion.
There you have it, the end game of the SPL revealed. To continue their existence they must plug a 10 million pound black hole. The Rangers EBT case that I maintain is at best a clerical error is a convenient excuse to extort yet more money from Rangers to fill the SPL coffers.
No doubt there will be many skeptics calling this fantasy but this is what I have found. Believe it or do not believe it.
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Fifer says:
August 24, 2012 at 10:34
the following information is 100% fact
The reason that the S.P.L and the S.F.A. were so insistant that Rangers concede all the prize money for finishing second is that they didn’t have it to give to them, as at present both the Clydesdale bank and Sky have not paid them a brown penny. It is also believed that several other sponsors are witholding money waiting on either the outcome of fresh negotiations
or dust to settle on any further sanctions on Rangers as this may affect any future involvement with both the S.F.A. and the S.P.L
So, the SPL insisted Rangers were to concede all prize money, because they couldn’t afford to pay the club the money. How very corrupt
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If correct, all you’ve shown is that the SPL and SFA are short of cash and that their apparent ‘growing of a pair’ when choosing to withold prizemoney from a team found guilty of an offence almost as bad as match fixing (ie cheating) was motivated by expediency rather than a desire to do the right thing. The withholding of prizemoney from a team that cheats is always the correct thing to do, even if the motivation of the governing body to apply the rules might be taken into question.
Any supporter of Rangers (old or new) who sees anything positive in your information, even if true, is clutching at straws. Especially when you consider that you are getting more help for your club from the governing bodies than anywhere else. For goodness sake, there are more of your ‘ain folk’ within the SFA than you’ll find in the boardroom at Ibrox!