Resolution 12 & The Broken Bond

ByTrisidium

Resolution 12 & The Broken Bond

Celtic Shareholders who put forward a resolution to the Celtic AGM in 2013 are preparing for the 2019 AGM tomorrow and some of their conclusions are reproduced below. Celtic are planning to vote the current resolution of 2019 down after several years of kicking the can down the road after an agreement to adjourn the 2013 motion was agreed at that AGM.

Given the weight of evidence, and the prevarication that has gone on for this extended period of time, you don’t have to be a student of politics to infer that Celtic are failing their own shareholders over this.

There appears to have been, at best, a failure of SFA governance over this issue. At worst? Well that doesn’t really bear thinking about. That Celtic (and other clubs too) have been in possession of the evidence outlined below but have failed to act on it is a damning indictment of the quality of people running our clubs. Peter Lawwell’s words from 2008 about the integrity of competition seem hollow coming from the same lips as the man who has failed to pursue any kind of sporting integrity over upholding the rules of the game.

Of course we are talking about a fundamental difference in how people see the game. There are those of us who (some say naively) consider that upholding the aspects of fair play and competition are paramount, and those who see the commercial aspects of the game as the foremost consideration. A pragmatist might find a way to accommodate both, but there are apparently no pragmatists in boardrooms all over Scotland – just financial accountants.

It would be unfair to categorise the latter constituency as suffering from some kind of character defect of course. Doesn’t make you a bad person because short term financial gain is your thing.

But it puts you at odds with the paying punters – or at least some of them. As a Celtic fan myself, I’m not so sure that I can take any real joy from my own club’s success if I have come to the conclusion that they themselves are happy with a rigged competition. I am not so sure I can credibly throw stones at anyone who is caught cheating when I see that serious evidence of malpractice is being ignored and hidden under the rug by my own club.

I am sure there are those who feel the same as I do. Are there enough of us? Probably not, but the effect of it all from a personal perspective, is that it disconnects me from the process where common goals and objectives are shared between fans, players and clubs. That’s what clubs are for after all isn’t it?

In short, if the game is rigged, there is no common objective.

And consequently, many of us, deprived of that shared mission, that bond broken, will be forced to re-evaluate their relationship with their clubs.

We all have our own thoughts, but the urge to walk away forever is strong with me.

The Resolution 12 Story

In 2012, Celtic shareholders brought a resolution before the Celtic PLC AGM which asked the Celtic Board to refer certain matters to UEFA because they felt that the Scottish Football Association was compromised, no longer fit for purpose in relation to these matters, at least, and had failed Celtic and all the other football clubs in Scotland and in its duty as a Governing body, and it has separately failed UEFA as the Licensing Authority appointed by UEFA to grant licences to play in European Football in relation to Scottish teams.
The actual wording used was as follows;

“This AGM requests the Board exercise the provision contained in the Procedural Rules Governing the UEFA Club Financial Control Body Article 10 with jurisdiction and investigation responsibilities identified in articles 3 & 11 (Note 1), by referring/bringing to the attention of the UEFA Club Financial Control Body (CFCB), the licensing administration practices of the Scottish Football Association (SFA), requesting the CFCB undertake a review and investigate the SFA’s implementation of UEFA & SFA license compliance requirements, with regard to qualification, administration and granting of licenses to compete in football competitions under both SFA and UEFA jurisdiction, since the implementation of the Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations of 2010.”

The response of the Celtic Board was to argue that this resolution was NOT NECESSARY because the board itself had already recognised that there had been failings within the SFA Licensing process, and they were already in correspondence with the SFA in relation to much the same issue.

The difference between the board and the Resolutioners was that the board wanted to continue corresponding with the SFA rather than refer the matter to UEFA or anyone else, whereas the Resolutioners argued that the SFA were hopelessly compromised, were unfit for purpose, could not of themselves remedy the situation they had created, and so wanted to refer the matter to UEFA as an independent and overseeing body whose rules had been flaunted, broken, ignored and to be frank, completely manipulated as a result of SFA inaction and inactivity.

After much discussion between the board and the Resolutioners, it was reluctantly agreed that the resolution should be adjourned and to allow the SFA to be given the opportunity to demonstrate that they could operate as a proper Governing body should and to answer all and any questions put to them via the Celtic PLC board and , where appropriate, the Resolutioners and ,if necessary, their solicitors.
In the interim period, it has become clear to the Resolutioners that the SFA are not fit for purpose, just as they originally argued, and that they are not, and never could have been, the appropriate body to consider and determine the failings in the licensing system that the Resolutioners had complained of.

This is not merely opinion on the part of the Resolutioners but is the determination and judgement of a formally constituted judicial panel appointed by the SFA itself.
The Resolutioners complain that the SFA have failed, and continue to fail in the following areas;

  • They failed to oversee a fair and robust European Licence application process before and after March 2011 in respect of the appropriate season.
    They had failed to mount any sort of investigation despite being contacted by HMRC from 2006 onwards in relation to the unlawful activities of a member club – they should have had a watching brief and requested regular updates from HMRC directly but didn’t.
  • They failed to properly apply the necessary tests demanded by UEFA in considering licence applications, and subsequently, through their then CEO, sought to justify their licensing process and the grant of certain licences on a number of different contradictory grounds – none of which stood scrutiny.
  • They failed to monitor, update their records or make specific enquiries between 30th March 2011 and Mid May 2011 when the list of application grants was formally intimated to UEFA – and by which time there was widespread public rumour and speculation about the state of the tax affairs of a member club together with specific legal documents which outlined that there was indeed a tax bills due which would have disqualified that club from being granted a UEFA licence – had the rules been applied properly.
  • They failed to grasp the situation between March 2011 and August 2011 when the Sheriff Officers were seen arriving at the same club and had still made no enquiry.
  • They failed to carry out any monitoring duties at all post the grant of the licence, with then CEO Reagan telling Celtic that once a European licence was granted – which it was in April 2011 – all further compliance monitoring and any necessary action was the province of UEFA. This was later contradicted by UEFA themselves.
  • They failed to monitor through the June 30th and September 30th, two key datelines specified with the UEFA regulations, and there exists a damning e-mail from one SFA officer to the offending club which effectively says that he hopes UEFA will be too busy to notice the deficiencies in the latest submissions sent by the SFA to UEFA in respect of the club concerned.

Throughout, the SFA denied that there were any failures in their procedures, that licences had been correctly granted, there had been no breaches of the rules and maintained that their procedures had been audited and approved by UEFA during the period.

According to the official UEFA website, no such Audit actually took place with the same website confirming which Football Associations were in fact audited at the relevant time. There is no mention of any SFA Audit.

The SFA claimed that not only was there nothing wrong with the grant of the licence, but that there was nothing for them to report during the post grant period as it was not their responsibility – and then added that even if something had been wrong, or was later found to be wrong with the grant, they could not report the matter to UEFA and could take no action because they were time barred from doing so.
Post the Craig Whyte Trial, where long held evidence was publicly noted and commented upon, Celtic and the SPFL publicly called for there to be a full independent Legal inquiry into all that had transpired during “the EBT years” and all aspects of how what had occurred, impacted on football Governance in Scotland.

The SFA rejected those calls and instead insisted on their own internal inquiry into the UEFA licence process for 2011/2012 – despite previously insisting that there had never been anything to investigate or report to UEFA who had entrusted them with the administration of their Licensing process.

The SFA wrote to every club in Scotland to say they were undertaking that investigation and later publicly announced that as a result of that investigation they had uncovered sufficient evidence to justify bringing formal charges alleging breaches of both SFA and UEFA rules.

This despite denying for a number of years that there had been any need for an investigation and despite reassuring Celtic that their licensing process was robust, had been conducted properly, and had not resulted in any incorrect grant of a licence.

The SFA appointed a judicial panel to hear those charges, determine whether they had been proven or not and then to hand out an appropriate punishment.

That Judicial panel have ruled that legally they (the SFA appointed panel) and the SFA itself cannot bring, hear, determine and act on those charges, nor consider the activities of the football club concerned in any judicial forum, because apparently the SFA had previously decided and formally entered into a contract which says that the SFA will not, and cannot, administer their normal Governmental and Judicial function (which would normally apply to any other club in Scotland and at any other time in the history of the SFA or UEFA) in relation to the acts concerned and the specific football club in question.
Instead, the Panel ruled that the charges concerned should be considered by the Court of Arbitration for Sport as a matter of contract and law – and could not be considered by an SFA appointed panel.
In other words, it has been judicially determined that the SFA cannot as a matter of law enforce its own rules or those of UEFA in relation to one club, and have signed away their entire right to oversee proper football Governance and the implementation of SFA and UEFA rules in this instance.

Further, that contract must have been known to all the appropriate SFA officers who decided and took part in the inquiry that led to the SFA bringing the disciplinary charges – Stuart Reagan, Andrew MacKinlay and Tony McGlennan – and when the SFA rejected Celtic’s call for a fully independent inquiry.

In effect, those same officers mounted their own internal inquiry and brought proceedings which they knew, or ought reasonably to have known, which would end in a legal dead end.
Such a course of action amounts to professional incompetence on a monumental scale – at best!

Further, subsequent SFA officials, assured the officers of Celtic Football Club that following the decision of the Independent Judicial Panel there was no reason why the SFA would not take the matter to CAS and in turn used the officials of Celtic Football Club to relay that message to the Resolutioners in the knowledge, and with the intention, that Celtic PLC shareholders would rely on those assurances and would act accordingly. Those actions and those assurances should now be the subject of a wholly separate inquiry.

Since those assurances were made to Celtic officials, Solicitors acting on behalf of shareholders have written to the SFA on no less than three occasions requesting clarification on what the SFA is doing, whether or not the decision from the independent tribunal advising that the matter should go to CAS will be implemented, and requesting a proposed timetable when this will happen. All such letters have been ignored or avoided by the SFA.
Subsequently, the current CEO of the SFA has stated that whether or not the matter should go to CAS will only be determined prior to Christmas 2019 – some 18 months after the ruling by the independent judicial panel.
This position is a complete volte face from what the SFA told Celtic officials immediately after the 2018 panel hearing.

The conclusion to all of this can only be that the SFA is not fit for purpose and that the governance of Scottish football is so bad, so broken and so far removed from normal judicial and corporate business practice that it must be looked at by an independent body if the matter is not referred to CAS.

Further, all of this must be made public, must be out in the open and must be properly disclosed otherwise any future investment in any club whether by private individuals, stock market listed entities, banks, loan houses, credit houses or whatever is predicated on the wholly fraudulent notion that the SFA will consistently apply its own rules or those of UEFA.

Celtic, as a respected member of UEFA, should not and cannot, stand back and allow this shambolic governance to continue unchecked and without external examination as to do so would be doing a total disservice to UEFA, and such a course of action would potentially make Celtic a party to the entire shambolic administration we have seen thus far.

The resolutioners have stated consistently since 2012 that SFA governance is not fit for purpose and have requested that this entire matter should be referred to UEFA as the overall governing body for European football and as a footballing authority who has entrusted the SFA to oversee the fair application of its rules in Scotland.

Despite what is now accepted as continued and regular SFA failure, that request has met with obfuscation and resistance.

However persistence beats resistance and no matter what the outcome of the 2019 Celtic AGM this is an issue which will not go away and is worthy of consideration and determination in a more formal legal forum.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

1,006 Comments so far

StevieBCPosted on1:14 pm - Dec 15, 2019


J.J it's 'simply the best' confirmation of King being a shadow director: coming from Gerrard, no less.

The long list of dodgy precedents / bending of the rules by the SFA is guaranteed to come back to bite them.

It might take an outsider like the SMSM dubbed 'Mad Vlad' to enter Scottish football: someone who will just not take their nonsense – and just might rag doll the SFA through the courts?

And I'd pay good money to see that…   

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shugPosted on1:55 pm - Dec 15, 2019


John Clark 

 

I appreciate the irony, Jingo.jimsie. broken heart

I would add that I am ready to believe that men so faithless and unprincipled probably now enjoy being metaphorically shafted by TRFC/RIFC plc, and regard it as a privilege worth selling their rotten souls for, and cannot wait for the next opportunity to be of service.

====================================

After reading the above I stumbled on this from the celtic blog.

This morning the record revealed that in the event Scotland qualifies for Euro 2020 that the sfa intends to blank its own training complex,assembled at enormous expense for sevco's hummel facility.The "booking" has already been made apparently.

 

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John ClarkPosted on3:05 pm - Dec 15, 2019


shug 15th December 2019 at 13:55

'..After reading the above I stumbled on this..'

++++++++++

From reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/euro_2020/comments/eaxed6/scotland_to_use_rangers_hummel_training_centre_as/

"It’s understood the previous Scotland coaching staff chose Rangers’ training center rather than Oriam.

It means Scotland won’t even train at their own multi-million-pound training center if they reach their first tournament in 22 years.

To do that, they must beat Israel at Hampden on March 26, then win the play-off Final away to either Norway or Serbia four days later.

Ironically, it was former Rangers flop Libor Sionko, now the Czech’s team manager, who revealed the information when he confirmed their preparatory plans for the Finals where they will play two games in Scotland.

Sionko said: “We went to Scotland twice to look at everything and we had three choices – Rangers, Stirling or Edinburgh.

“I know Rangers well because of my time in Scotland.

“But the Rangers Training Centre has already been booked by the Scottish national team and Oriam suited us best as an alternative."

___

Thank you, shug.

case proved, in spades: anything to slide a few bob to a financially straitened, struggling new club, to which, some people allege, they may already have slid some millions.

They are incorrigible and unrepentant in their deceitful wickedness. 

 

 

 

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Corrupt officialPosted on4:54 pm - Dec 15, 2019


shug 15th December 2019 at 13:55 

John Clark I appreciate the irony, Jingo.jimsie. broken heart I would add that I am ready to believe that men so faithless and unprincipled probably now enjoy being metaphorically shafted by TRFC/RIFC plc, and regard it as a privilege worth selling their rotten souls for, and cannot wait for the next opportunity to be of service.

====================================

After reading the above I stumbled on this from the celtic blog. This morning the record revealed that in the event Scotland qualifies for Euro 2020 that the sfa intends to blank its own training complex,assembled at enormous expense for sevco's hummel facility.The "booking" has already been made apparently.

————————————————————-

    Shug….Any idea if that has anything to do with the charge held over Minty's Park, by the Sports Scotland grant/loan?

 

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John ClarkPosted on9:54 pm - Dec 15, 2019


To wander a little OT, can I remark that one can live to quite an auld age and still be surprised by daft wee things. 

Take the expression 'sod's law'. I suppose we have all used it a million times, without giving it any thought. 

I certainly never thought for a minute that there was an actual Sod's Law. Would you believe I saw it referred to in lengthy Sheriff Court judgment of fairly recent date? I give you the very words used by the Sheriff:

"[10] It is also important to acknowledge that, as often occurs in unusual or unique 
circumstances, Sod’s Law contributed to the progress of events and the worst possible 
outcome…."mail

( absolutely for laughs, and perhaps lots of Sheriffs and High Court judges have used it in judgments where a whole lot of things go amiss: and nothing at all to do with those sometimes referred to as 's.ds' in the Saga)

The quote is from a very lengthy judgment in a bankruptcy/sequestration in which all kinds of parties were at cross purposes, with a hint of possible criminality and more than a hint of really shoddy and careless legal work. It runs to 181 paragraphs over 51 pages!

https://www.bailii.org/scot/cases/ScotSC/2019/2019SC83.html

 

 

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wottpiPosted on11:24 am - Dec 16, 2019


Didn't manage to Tynecastle of Saturday but just saw the highlights.

Had a few frustrating moments on Sunday however at the youth football with the ref allowing big laddies to push over wee laddies without as much as a word. Some were fair shoulder charges and you can't complain about differences in size that gives the bigger laddie a natural advantage but others were arms extended pushes that the guys realised, as the game when on they could get away with it, without punishment.

I then see highlights of the Hearts v St J game and Ralston taking a blind-side head shot at Walker in the professional game and all that happens if a yellow. Unbelievable and hardly a good example of skillful play. Like the issues raised above Ralston could easily have  simply 'bumped' Walker. However he goes in with an elbow that wouldn't look out of place in a cage fight.

I understand that the matter may not be up for review given it was carded at the time. However given all the concern of head injuries and concussion, IMHO that type of incident should be reviewed with the potential for severe punishment to show everyone these matters are not being condoned.

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John ClarkPosted on12:21 pm - Dec 16, 2019


wottpi 16th December 2019 at 11:24

'…However he goes in with an elbow that wouldn't look out of place in a cage fight.'

++++++++++++++

I remember from a goodly number of years ago an incident during a game in England when a patrolling police constable went onto the pitch to speak to a player who had ,in the constable's  view, committed the kind of assault that, if committed elsewhere, would have got the perpetrator a jail sentence!

There are some naturally vicious animals out there in 'sport'. The odd criminal prosecution wouldn't go amiss.

 

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John ClarkPosted on12:31 pm - Dec 16, 2019


FC Copenhagen v Celtic

TRFC v Braga

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Higgy's ShoesPosted on1:05 pm - Dec 16, 2019


"Why Lawwell doesn’t want UEFA to take a look and give their verdict can lead to only one conclusion- Celtic have something to hide in this, there is something that they’d rather keep quiet about".

That sense has been growing with me for some time, but what could it be?


I've thought about this too and not just with Celtic.

 

A few years back  I can remember King saying that he had damning evidence about other clubs finances. (I know, I know but even a broken clock is right twice a day)

So, I've been wondering over the last couple of years, in the absence of any serious criticism from any other club exactly that….what have they got to hide?

 

HS 

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wottpiPosted on1:07 pm - Dec 16, 2019


John Clark 16th December 2019 at 12:21

Good point, however how often do you see the Polis patrolling the side lines these days.

It does remain the case that Ralston wasn't simply jumping and challenging for the ball and using his arms to gain height etc.

It was a targeted hit from behind to the head of an opposing player.

I like seeing a hard and physical challenge as much as anyone but there is no place in the game for the type of behaviour which, as you say, would see you arrested on the street or in the stand.

 

 

 

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paddy malarkeyPosted on2:36 pm - Dec 16, 2019


How other leagues deal with bad words .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50801923

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normanbatesmumfcPosted on3:16 pm - Dec 16, 2019


The Sevco Manager bleating again!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50801777

 

Rangers manager Steven Gerrard has "no complaints" about Alfredo Morelos' dismissal in the win at Motherwell, but believes referee Don Robertson was "desperate to give out a red card".

 

No doubt be in hot water…….Doh! I forgot about the 5-way get out of jail free card.

 

No mention of Morelos' 5 or 6 fouls before he was eventually booked. Read somewhere he committed 14 fouls in the cup final without receiving a booking. While maybe 14 is an exaggeration, the Manager's blue-tinted view of his player is well off the mark.

I watched their Euro tie the other night and the serial diver dropped to the ground twice in the first 40 seconds. Morelos has talent, it's a shame he resorts to the cheating or cheap shot flykicks at opponents so often.

 

One less worry for Jack Ross on Friday with the Sevco goal-machine unavailable 

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bect67Posted on4:13 pm - Dec 16, 2019


Apparently (well according to the BBC Scotland website) Jeremie Frimpong scored his first Celtic goal on Sunday against Hibs.

What happened to the one he scored against Aberdeen at Pittodrie on 27/10?

Lazy, lazy reporting.

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StevieBCPosted on4:26 pm - Dec 16, 2019


IMO, Gerrard betrayed his lack of management experience, re: his response to Morelos' sending off.

It's one thing standing up for your own player, but quite another when – perhaps inadvertently – supporting unacceptable conduct on the field of play.

Are we now going to see 10 year old kids in the West of Scotland score a goal for their Primary School team…followed by a rude gesture towards the parents of the opposing team standing on the touchline?  

…because they saw their hero do it on TV?

smiley

 

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Ex LudoPosted on5:00 pm - Dec 16, 2019


https://twitter.com/thescotsman/status/1206613728684322816?s=21

Slow news day.

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shugPosted on5:27 pm - Dec 16, 2019


Corrupt official 15th December 2019 at 16:54

 

16

 

2

 

Rate This

 

 

shug 15th December 2019 at 13:55 

John Clark I appreciate the irony, Jingo.jimsie. broken heart I would add that I am ready to believe that men so faithless and unprincipled probably now enjoy being metaphorically shafted by TRFC/RIFC plc, and regard it as a privilege worth selling their rotten souls for, and cannot wait for the next opportunity to be of service.

====================================

After reading the above I stumbled on this from the celtic blog. This morning the record revealed that in the event Scotland qualifies for Euro 2020 that the sfa intends to blank its own training complex,assembled at enormous expense for sevco's hummel facility.The "booking" has already been made apparently.

————————————————————-

    Shug….Any idea if that has anything to do with the charge held over Minty's Park, by the Sports Scotland grant/loan?

=====================================

No idea but it was seemingly arranged by the previous management set up Mr Alex EBT Mcleish.

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John ClarkPosted on5:35 pm - Dec 16, 2019


What does a club have to do to stop mindless  morons letting off fireworks at matches? 

Celtic have been handed a 16.000 euro fine on account of the shit.s in their travelling support. 

Who are these morons?

Are they so many and/or so intimidating that they can't be identified and dealt with?

Who needs fans like that?

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John ClarkPosted on7:00 pm - Dec 16, 2019


   Interesting that the Post Office seems to have approached the claims against them by sub/postmasters/mistresses with the same attitude which the SFA had in dealing with the Liquidation of RFC of 1872:

From the judgment today :

"The Post Office disputes the whole basis of the Claimants’ case. Indeed, in its written Opening for the Common Issues trial, the Post Office stated that:

“[if the Claimants’ case were right] this would have a very serious impact on Post Office and its ability to control its network throughout the UK”

and

“If the Claimants were right in the broad thrust of their case, this would represent an existential threat to Post Office’s ability to continue to carry on its business throughout the UK in the way it presently does.”

In the SFA's case, that translates as " if we carry out our duties properly  and with honesty and integrity RFC of 1872 will be retrospectively expelled for a decade of monumental sports cheating. SevcoScotland will be treated as the brand new club they are. And there will be no secret 5-Way agreement to pervert Scottish Football the way our minds are perverted. But of course, we do not want to act decently and honourably, because the death of 'Rangers' is unthinkable.No matter that they are in Liquidation."

<

p style=”margin-left:36pt; margin-right:0cm”>And it's very like the attitude of that old b of a judge who opined that it is better for innocent men to go to jail rather than that English justice should be questioned! (or words to that absolutely evil effect)

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AllyjamboPosted on7:05 pm - Dec 16, 2019


John Clark 16th December 2019 at 17:35

Now I don't 'get' this need of some folk to throw flares etc onto a football pitch at any time during a football match, far less when the thrower's team has just scored a goal – just how can some daft squib enhance that feeling? – but can somebody please explain to me why there seems to be plenty supporters, of all clubs, inclined to defend such childish actions when they would rightly condemn the throwing of cans, bottles, coins or any other objects?

Imagine going to the effort of buying a flare (where on earth do you buy a flare?) for the few minutes 'cheap thrill' the dick-head gets. You can bet the little sh*t would tell his mummy where to go if she asked him to run to the shop for a pint of milk! Now that would really be too much like hard work for the type of brain that would throw a flare at a football match.

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paddy malarkeyPosted on7:49 pm - Dec 16, 2019


On topic for a change !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50816701

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paddy malarkeyPosted on7:57 pm - Dec 16, 2019


Another contract extension . Doesn't fit the recent age profile , though .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50813188

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paddy malarkeyPosted on8:01 pm - Dec 16, 2019


Like buses !

As you were – off out for a pint !

 

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bordersdonPosted on8:12 pm - Dec 16, 2019


PM @19.57

———————————————————

Aye makes you feel humble and lucky! Hope you enjoyed.

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paddy malarkeyPosted on8:14 pm - Dec 16, 2019


Sorry , didn't realise the size .

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easyJamboPosted on9:40 pm - Dec 16, 2019


Allyjambo 16th December 2019 at 19:05

Imagine going to the effort of buying a flare (where on earth do you buy a flare?)

==================================

Just go onto Ebay and do a search for "smoke bombs". They are dead cheap and well within the means of most teenagers, far less adults.

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Cluster OnePosted on10:43 pm - Dec 16, 2019


bect67 16th December 2019 at 16:13
Lazy, lazy reporting.
……………….
In todays media Jeremie Frimpong the Man City kid.
And here is me thinking Celtic Had signed him.

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John ClarkPosted on11:50 pm - Dec 16, 2019


Cluster One 16th December 2019 at 22:43

'..In todays media Jeremie Frimpong the Man City kid.
And here is me thinking Celtic Had signed him.'

+++++++++++

On the one hand there is   Morelos. 

On the other hand there is Frimpong.

Who in his right mind would welcome the surly, cheating , unsporting diver ( although admittedly his skills should make that kind of behaviour unnecessary) Morelos into his home ? 

Whereas even the most evil-minded , 'big lie' propagandist hacks of the SMSM cannot find a word to say against Frimpong-but are choked that such a talented , well-bred, open-hearted youngster should stand as a splendid exemplar of honest brilliance and sportsmanship on the field and off it: and happens to be playing for Celtic, a fact that they would rather gloss over!broken heart

 

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StevieBCPosted on12:21 pm - Dec 17, 2019


Ex Ludo 16th December 2019 at 17:00

https://twitter.com/thescotsman/status/1206613728684322816?s=21 Slow news day.

==================

Saw this is The Sun, and presume it has been widely covered in the MSM – in both Scotland and England.

 

And my immediate thought was: Gerrard has good PR savvy people behind him.

We know he wasn't rated as a coach – as recently as 2 years ago – by Liverpool, and was offered an 'Ambassador' role instead.

Now, we are supposed to believe that the very same people at Liverpool are "informally" discussing Gerrard as a successor to the hugely experienced Klopp…?

Gerrard has done well at TRFC but hasn't won anything – yet.

 

But, cleverly, he is subconsciously being positioned alongside Klopp in this PR nonsense. 

It's a lot more subtle than your typical, Traynor-grade p!sh – and potentially, more acceptable / believable by the masses.

 

Mibbees Traynor could learn something from Gerrard's PR?

broken heart

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Higgy’s ShoesPosted on1:18 pm - Dec 17, 2019


To the technical guys running the site:

 

Something strange has happened. A good few weeks ago I put up a post.

The post appeared at the time but yesterday it appeared AGAIN with no prompting from me.

 

Higgy's Shoes 16th December 2019 at 13:05

Any clues as to why this has happened?

 

HS

 

 

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Higgy’s ShoesPosted on1:41 pm - Dec 17, 2019


Kilmarnock sack Alessio

 

….less than 6 months after appointing him.

 

HS

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Big PinkPosted on2:21 pm - Dec 17, 2019


Site is in need of a revamp, and over the Christmas period we will be starting the process of making it a bit leaner and more efficient.
We will also try to cut back on the ads, although with the reduction in subscriptions over that last few years, the £40 or so per month we bring in from ads is equivalent to a good few subs.
Hopefully the process will be complete by the end of January.

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AllyjamboPosted on2:37 pm - Dec 17, 2019


easyJambo 16th December 2019 at 21:40 

 

Allyjambo 16th December 2019 at 19:05

Imagine going to the effort of buying a flare (where on earth do you buy a flare?)

==================================

Just go onto Ebay and do a search for "smoke bombs". They are dead cheap and well within the means of most teenagers, far less adults.

___________________

I more or less expected that to be the case, EJ, but imagine one of those morons being asked by mummy to go online order the weeks shopping from Tesco, it'd be far too much for the wee sweetie to be bothered with. The thing is, it's not some spur of the moment piece of drunken stupidity where a can or bottle used to be thrown onto the pitch, it's pre-planned a few days ahead which just multiplies the level of stupidity involved. And I still don't understand the pant-wetting thrill that these morons get, though I suspect it raises their true (enter any football club here)ness amongst their equally moronic mates.

I notice a couple of TDs on my earlier club neutral post on this subject and presume they are from people who either indulge in flare throwing or condone/see nothing wrong with it. Please join the ranks of the moronic mates I refer to or have the guts, at least, to put some counter argument forward, if you can, for the benefit and enlightenment of us old gits on the blog who fail to understand the pant-wetting joy of flare tossers.

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on3:16 pm - Dec 17, 2019


I attended the Hearts AGM this morning. As expected most of the questions from the floor to Ann Budge were about Craig Levein's (non) departure and Daniel Stendel's appointment.  She got a few softball questions from the Shareholders Association first up, but she ended up admitting that she should have ditched CL sooner.

The BBC's Brian McLaughlin has summarised the main points from the AGM fairly accurately.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50826082

I've also got the Foundation of Hearts AGM to attend this evening.  I'd expect that AB will also be there, assuming that she has returned from an SPFL meeting she was attending this afternoon, in Glasgow, on the topic of "unacceptable conduct".

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on9:16 pm - Dec 17, 2019


Just a seasonal reminder for JC of "the Don" in action

Faculty of Advocates@FacultyScot

Christmas is in his hands…will D Findlay QC, esq swing the jury and secure an acquittal at Santa on Trial? ⁦@oSYLAo ⁩ #FreeTheNorthPoleOne

Image

View Comment

John ClarkPosted on10:21 pm - Dec 17, 2019


easyJambo 17th December 2019 at 21:

"..D Findlay QC, esq swing the jury …'

+++++++++++++++

Yes, he will.

 

Faculty of Advocates‏ @FacultyScot 2h2 hours ago

 

STOP PRESS!!!!! Christmas is saved – Santa is Not Guilty. After a high fives with his lawyer, he’s back on the sleigh. Brilliant end to a brilliant event by the Scottish Young Lawyers’ Association and Faculty’s devils, with near £2000 for Edinburgh Children’s Hospital Charity.pic.twitter.com/SZrHWfIm44

 

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Cluster OnePosted on7:13 am - Dec 18, 2019


bect67 16th December 2019 at 16:13
Lazy, lazy reporting.
……………….
In todays media Jeremie Frimpong the Man City kid.
And here is me thinking Celtic Had signed him.
……..
John Clark 16th December 2019 at 23:50
……………..
Ment to post this article the other day, but never had the time.
https://twitter.com/Highland__paddy/status/1206515962943553536/photo/1

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easyJamboPosted on1:07 pm - Dec 18, 2019


It seems that TRFC's finances have had a boost from their latest Europa League success.

You may recall Dave King statement in the RIFC accounts dated 31 October.

At the time of preparation, the forecast identified that the Group would require £10.0m by way of debt or equity funding by the end of season 2019/2020 in order to meet its liabilities as they fall due. The first tranche of funding is required from investors in November 2019.  However, the final amount required is dependent on future football performance, European football participation and player trading amongst other factors.

TRFC's accounts have just been published on the Companies House website

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC425159/filing-history

The accounts include a statement by Andrew Dickson dated 4 December indicating that the funding requirement has dropped to £6m.  I can only assume that the change is down to the additional income from the group stage results and progress to the knock out stages of the EL.

At the time of preparation, the forecast identified that the Company would require a further £6.0m by way of debt or equity funding during season 2019/2020 in order to meet its liabilities as they fall due. The first tranche of funding is required from investors in December 2019. However, the final amount required is dependent on future football performance, European football participation and player trading amongst other factors 

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on1:25 pm - Dec 18, 2019


There are also comments about funding in TRFC's "Post Balance Sheet Events"

Capital contributions

Subsequent to the year end the Company received additional capital contributions of £7.0m from its parent company.

Loans

Subsequent to the year end the Company received additional loans of £5.0m from Laird Investments (Pty) limited.

The £7m was the debt for equity exchange in September.  The £5m loan facility was also mentioned in the RIFC accounts.  What is missing is last months share issue which should have raised £2.1m in cash from Borita Investments (£1.5m), Club 1872 (£500k) and Douglas Park (£100k) 

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on4:29 pm - Dec 18, 2019


easyJambo at 1325hrs:

Forgive my ignorance of matters financial, but how did RIFC make £7m to give TRFC from a debt for equity swop? The 'debt' part was monies (I assume) that had already been spent from earlier directors' loans & the 'equity' part was for new shares with no further money changing hands. What am I missing?

############

If you need a tea-time giggle, may I suggest you read Neil Cameron's piece in the Herald:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18108790.neil-cameron-scottish-fans-deserve-ultimate-snub-alfredo-morelos/

He shoots; he misses (the point) by a mile!

 

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easyJamboPosted on5:03 pm - Dec 18, 2019


Jingso.Jimsie 18th December 2019 at 16:29

easyJambo at 1325hrs:

Forgive my ignorance of matters financial, but how did RIFC make £7m to give TRFC from a debt for equity swop? The 'debt' part was monies (I assume) that had already been spent from earlier directors' loans & the 'equity' part was for new shares with no further money changing hands. What am I missing?

======================================

You are missing nothing.  The former "loans", already spent by TRFC, were converted to shares in RIFC and re-designated as a capital contribution in TRFC, rather than an inter company debt.  

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AllyjamboPosted on6:07 pm - Dec 18, 2019


Jingso.Jimsie 18th December 2019 at 16:29 If you need a tea-time giggle, may I suggest you read Neil Cameron's piece in the Herald: https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18108790.neil-cameron-scottish-fans-deserve-ultimate-snub-alfredo-morelos/ He shoots; he misses (the point) by a mile! __________________

Talk about fans with typewriters! Just skim read it as it's so sickeningly sh*t, but I read enough to know that he writes like a fan chatting in the Louden Tavern. He was, after all, writing about a man who's got off with more kicks (missed and hit home) at opponents than anyone I can recall, yet a booking of the kind many have had previously, that leads to a red card, is given all those column inches. 

A proper journalist would be writing about how lucky he's been to escape sanction on so many occasions in relatively short time in Scottish football.

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Cluster OnePosted on6:53 pm - Dec 18, 2019


easyJambo 18th December 2019 at 13:07
as they fall due. The first tranche of funding is required from investors in November 2019.
………..
as they fall due. The first tranche of funding is required from investors in December 2019.
………….
Why the delay for a month from investors?

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on7:06 pm - Dec 18, 2019


Cluster One 18th December 2019 at 18:53

Why the delay for a month from investors?

===============================

Higher than expected revenue from EL results and match day income?

The cash injection from the November share issue may also have delayed further funding. 

View Comment

Jingso.JimsiePosted on7:15 pm - Dec 18, 2019


'easyJambo 18th December 2019 at 17:03

You are missing nothing.  The former "loans", already spent by TRFC, were converted to shares in RIFC and re-designated as a capital contribution in TRFC, rather than an inter company debt.'  

###################

I thank you for your patience. 

I now understand that it's a 'paper transaction' & there wasn't actually £7m transferred from one entity to another in September/October. 

View Comment

Cluster OnePosted on7:28 pm - Dec 18, 2019


easyJambo 18th December 2019 at 13:07
Close leasing ltd has a standard security over the Albion car park and Edmiston house.
……………
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5080384/rangers-edmiston-house-demolition-glasgow-city-council/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1576659808
…………………..
I take it they have to pay the loan off first before this happens.
………..
Stewart Robertson.
He told Rangers TV: “There are a couple of feasibility projects going on at the moment in terms of bringing Edmiston House back into use, which would be a great facility for the supporters.
….
Oh well.
Ps. Has Edmiston House not got some listed status?

View Comment

Cluster OnePosted on7:34 pm - Dec 18, 2019


After reading the above I stumbled on this from the celtic blog. This morning the record revealed that in the event Scotland qualifies for Euro 2020 that the sfa intends to blank its own training complex,assembled at enormous expense for sevco’s hummel facility.The “booking” has already been made apparently.
……………..
easyJambo anything in the accounts show that a payment may have already been made if the “booking” has already been made?

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Ex LudoPosted on7:39 pm - Dec 18, 2019


https://twitter.com/motherwellfc/status/1207374974715138048

This has got to be applauded.

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easyJamboPosted on9:39 pm - Dec 18, 2019


Cluster One 18th December 2019 at 19:34

easyJambo anything in the accounts show that a payment may have already been made if the “booking” has already been made?

================================

No. I wouldn't expect anything either. It can only be a provisional booking should Scotland progress from the play-offs.

View Comment

Cluster OnePosted on9:51 pm - Dec 18, 2019


Ex Ludo 18th December 2019 at 19:39 Well done.

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Cluster OnePosted on9:53 pm - Dec 18, 2019


easyJambo
Thanks for replies.

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John ClarkPosted on12:04 am - Dec 19, 2019


  • Cluster One 18th December 2019 at 19:28
  • '..Ps. Has Edmiston House not got some listed status?'
  • +++++++++++++++++
  • That sent me on a second wee search, Cluster One[ I was in Glasgow today pursuing researches into the local history of the Tollcross/Parkhead/Dalbeth area of Glasgow].
  • As a result of the wee research into Edmiston House's listing I felt constrained to write and send this email   to Historic Environment Scotland    
  • "HMEnquiries@hes.scot
  • Dear Historic Environment Scotland,
  • May I point out the need for a little up-dating of the entry relating to the description and relative social and cultural significance of  Ibrox Stadium? The entry in question is to be found on this link

    portal.historicenvironment.scot/designation/LB33338

    In the Statement of Special Interest one reads the following:

    'Ibrox has been the home of the Rangers Football Club since 1887. The Club was formed in 1872 and initially played on Glasgow Green.'

    This sentence has needed amendment since 2012, in which year the Rangers Football Club that was formed in 1872 ceased to be a member of a league or of the Scottish Football Association('SFA) and in consequence ceased to exist as a participant in professional football [just as,sadly, many other of the original clubs in the early days of organised professional football (and some more modern clubs) ] have done over the years.

    It is no longer historically accurate to say today ,or to imply, that Ibrox Stadium is the home of the Rangers of 1872!

    On the liquidation of Rangers of 1872 in 2012, a new club was created. This new club was admitted to the then Scottish Third Division, and on that basis was admitted into membership of the  SFA. The new club was first named SevcoScotland, but the name was very quickly changed to 'The Rangers Football Club'.

    Ibrox Stadium is now the home , not of a 147 year old football club, but of a new club since 2012 occupying the premises used by that now 'In Liquidation' club.  

    I am not a professional historian.

    But I do expect that professional historians will be scrupulously accurate in the matter of ascertainable facts ( otherwise, what is the point?) about which there is no room for doubt. 

    I think HES owes it to itself and to the rest of us to amend the 'Statement of Special Interest' appropriately.

    Don't you?

    I'd be glad to have your observations in due course.

    Meantime, happy Christmas to all at HES,

    Yours sincerely,

    JC"

  • [My researches earlier today involved a wander by the banks of the Clyde with my brother, a visit to our parents' grave, our boyhood playground, a chance meeting with a boyhood friend not seen by me since about 1955-who was able to assist me materially in my researches!
  • And a couple of pints in Sloan's with a quick dash to get to Queen Street station to re-join Mrs C to catch  the 4.15 ( cheap day return!) to Edinburgh. Only just made it.]
View Comment

John ClarkPosted on1:31 pm - Dec 19, 2019


Wee discussion on BBC radio Scotland about the BBC , with some plonker talking about 'BBC impartiality.'

 From the way BBC Radio Scotland actively propagandises the untruth that Rangers Football Club of 1872 is the club that has been playing at Ibrox since 2012, I would say that journalists who are prepared to tell untruths in matters of Sport will very likely find it easy to propagandise on behalf of more serious untruths-in the world of Politics and Finance .

 

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John ClarkPosted on2:10 pm - Dec 19, 2019


With reference to my post of 00.04 this morning, I've just checked my inbox .

 HES has acknowledged in a simple, polite and helpful manner, in an email  at 10.13 this morning, my email to them . My email has been passed to the duty officer to review.

I think that prompt, polite,helpful acknowledgement of communications is worth its weight in gold to any organisation. It instantly creates a favourable impression of the organisation as being efficient, open to discussion and so on. 

The FCA could learn something from HES!

 

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John ClarkPosted on12:45 am - Dec 20, 2019


'FCA could learn something from HES!' I said  in my post of 19th December 2019 at 14:10 .

I  heard on the news at 12.25 a.m that Mr Andrew Bailey,  CEO  of the FCA ,is likely to be the next Governor of the Bank of England.

His views on Brexit, it is said, have been of relevance.

God forbid that the pussy-footing of the TOP around getting someone done for contempt of court, and the inordinate delay in replying to me on the allegation that the RIFC plc IPO prospectus was misleading , should be in any way connected with the 'little Englander' ,unionist, views of the Brexiteers.

Not that I would assume that Bailey is one of those people who enjoy the ritual of shaking hands.

But as CEO of a significant organisation, he seems to run a rather loose ship.

 

 

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upthehoopsPosted on9:33 am - Dec 20, 2019


John Clark 19th December 2019 at 13:31

Wee discussion on BBC radio Scotland about the BBC , with some plonker talking about 'BBC impartiality.'

 From the way BBC Radio Scotland actively propagandises the untruth that Rangers Football Club of 1872 is the club that has been playing at Ibrox since 2012, I would say that journalists who are prepared to tell untruths in matters of Sport will very likely find it easy to propagandise on behalf of more serious untruths-in the world of Politics and Finance .

———————————————-

Arguments about alleged BBC bias in their political coverage I will leave to other more suited forums. 

In terms of their coverage of Scottish football though it is not in my view impartial at all. Their choice of football pundits is and always has been weighted in favour of ex-players who once plied their trade at Ibrox. This simply has to be by design and can never result in impartial coverage. Taking someone like Billy Dodds as an example, who has had a few failed attempts at Management. Every time he fails he gets straight back to the BBC. Likewise with Managerial failure Neil McCann, who when Sky Sports didn't seem overly keen to take him back, the BBC were waiting with open arms. There are regular contributions from Kris Boyd, Derek Ferguson, Barry Ferguson, and most appallingly of all in my view, Gordon Smith, who was part of the board at Ibrox when millions went illegally unpaid in PAYE and N.I. I have no idea what he knew at the time, but he was part of that regime, and in my view is compromised forever. Add to that Smith is actually on record as defending Rangers illegal use of EBT's, with the temerity to use a supporting argument that it gave us a more competitive title fight. Despite all that Smith still gets invited to air his views on the BBC. There is also Steven Thompson and Alex Rae, and the midweek Sportsound presenter is quite up front on his Twitter account about how much of a Rangers fan he is. Add in others to the mix like 'St Mirren fan' Chick Young, and 'Airdrie fan Jim Traynor who for years were allowed to use the BBC as a platform for their biased views. 

The usual paranoia suggestions will no doubt be made, however one of the BBC's most celebrated commentators, Archie Macpherson, has gone on record several times regarding the pro Rangers bias that existed, as well as anti-Celtic and anti-Catholic bias. When did this all change? Has it ever been stated that it has changed? I remember an interesting programme on a prominent ex-BBC commentator when he retired. He seemed like a thoroughly decent guy, but it stuck in my mind when he spoke of his upbringing and said they could support any team they liked except Celtic. You can of course support any team in the world and be a very good person, but how does one who was told at a young age that one team in particular was off limits, then manage to commentate fairly on that team? I used to listen to this guy and when Celtic scored it was sometimes difficult to tell given the tone of his voice. There are YouTube videos which highlight his muted reaction to a Celtic goal, compared to his reaction to a goal against Celtic, or for Rangers. 

You could argue a commercial media outlet can go down any route of bias it likes, but not the BBC. My licence fee is as good as anyone else's, but being equal in the eyes of the BBC is where that ends in my view. 

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StevieBCPosted on9:57 am - Dec 20, 2019


The lesser-spotted SFA CEO has been wheeled out from the bunker. [He must have Christmas shopping to do…].

From The DR today;

 

"SPFL clubs 'set for VAR vote' as SFA look to introduce controversial technology

SFA chief Ian Maxwell will make the request to clubs with referees fearing missing out on major tournaments.

Steven Gerrard made the call for VAR after Celtic's winner in the Betfred Cup Final was allowed despite Christopher Jullien being offside.

Referees fear they will miss out on major tournaments if VAR isn't in place in Scotland and Maxwell wants a vote over the next few months.

…"

=====

So, according to this DR mince, Scottish football might be getting VAR because Gerrard wants it in place.

Oh, and now that the refs have a vested interest to ensure that VAR happens – it will no doubt happen.

 

And apparently this VAR suggestion has nothing to do with 'the Refereeing Summit' held in Perth last February for all the SPL managers.

Regardless of the motivation, I just hope that the Hampden blazers manage to introduce VAR in a competent manner…  indecision

 

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wottpiPosted on11:06 am - Dec 20, 2019


upthehoops 20th December 2019 at 09:33

Regarding the advice given on what team to support it would  be simpler if folks followed the advice I gave to my son when he said he wanted to start going to watch professional games.

Best support your local team.

In his case he had the choice of Hibs and Hearts and he chose Hearts for his own reasons, nothing what so ever to do with me.

I am sure there are Hoops fans who tell their kids that the only team they will ever get to support is Celtic.

Either way, given the nature of football,  its indoctrination into a cult mentality and that IMHO is always unhealthy in terms of not letting kids find their own path.

 

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LUGOSIPosted on11:29 am - Dec 20, 2019


upthehoops 20th December 2019 at 09:33

Out of the many Ibrox-linked voices on television and radio Alex Rae sticks out like a sore thumb.

There's nothing wrong with mangling the English language until the point when you are given a job where the only tool in your box is the English language. Billy Dodds employs what I suppose is an Ayrshire use of "y" instead of "of" or "have", as in "Browny Celtic" and "shouldy passed" but this is whimsical compared to Alex Rae's attempts to come across as articulate (cf. Lorry) 

Leaving aside Mr Rae's many lapses into Glaswegianese, such as when in the middle of some rehearsed pan loaf oration he refers to "the boay let hisself doon", Mr Rae never fails to disappoint when he deliberately uses words which don't mean what he thinks they mean. The other evening I caught ten minutes on Radio Clyde during which time Mr Rae professionally opined that he liked how a player "manipulated" the ball. Unless the player was a goalkeeper that's a foul and possibly a yellow card.

A few weeks ago I listened to another Radio Clyde programme when, as a conscious effort to fill dead airtime, contributors were discussing long sleeved/short sleeved shirts and the ever important question of the short sleeves and gloves look. Mr Rae was able to elevate the tone of the discussion by informing us that he had always sported the short sleeved shirt because long sleeves made him, and I quote, "claustrophobic".

There are few qualifications required to talk on radio but the meaning of words should be the least of them.

John Lambie expressed it well when he delivered either a double backhanded compliment or a triple insult describing one of his players.

"His problem is his brains are all in his head."

Not a problem Mr Rae is ever likely to suffer from.

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on11:47 am - Dec 20, 2019


'StevieBC 20th December 2019 at 09:57

…Referees fear they will miss out on major tournaments if VAR isn't in place in Scotland and Maxwell wants a vote over the next few months…

…Oh, and now that the refs have a vested interest to ensure that VAR happens – it will no doubt happen…

…Regardless of the motivation, I just hope that the Hampden blazers manage to introduce VAR in a competent manner…'

##########################

Leaving the financial costs of VAR to one side, I think there's a major issue with the implementation of VAR in the Ladbrokes Premiership.

VAR relies on 'the man in the van' being impartial. That means that he can't favour one club, one player or one official in any situation. That would be very difficult to achieve in Scotland, with conscious or unconscious bias playing a part. Could the SFA guarantee that impartiality, with every 'honest mistake' subject to scrutiny? Could the SFA guarantee that each & every incident within the VAR remit would actually be examined fairly? The use of VAR sets out objective points for examination, but they're still dependent on subjective (human) analysis.

I'd love to think that the refereeing cadre in Scotland is better than that, but in every match they prove me wrong!

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StevieBCPosted on12:15 pm - Dec 20, 2019


J.J that's a perfectly valid point about impartiality.

In practice – and with today's communications – 'the man in the van' could feasibly be of any nationality and/or could be physically located anywhere in the world.

Mibbees that could be a good trade off – and a way to satisfy those who would simply prefer non-Scottish Referees?

It could be a huge move towards shutting down future complaints about match officiating standards.

 

Impartial, non-Scottish VAR officials – who can help to improve the standards of our Scottish Referees, linesmen and 4th officials?

What's not to like…?  indecision

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yourhavingalaughPosted on12:37 pm - Dec 20, 2019


Whats to stop Scottish based VAR operators from having honest mistakes just like the match officials,we would probably need an external VAR operator to monitor the Scottish based operators,I know ,I know,now wheres my replay button.

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John ClarkPosted on1:30 pm - Dec 20, 2019


StevieBC 20th December 2019 at 09:57

'…according to this DR mince, Scottish football might be getting VAR because Gerrard wants it in place.'

++++++++++++++++

Whoever wrote that deserves to be strangled with the last ever copy of the DR, with the second last copy (tightly- rolled) jammed up his fundament, and the third last stuffed into his deceitful gob!angry

Honest to God, what kind of creatures are they the sports hacks of the SMSM?

View Comment

wottpiPosted on2:30 pm - Dec 20, 2019


StevieBC 20th December 2019 at 12:15

That's a good shout re independent VAR refs being anywhere in the world as long as they had a good feed and communications for the game in place. I suppose the downside would be the threat of being corrupted by gambling rings etc.

While opposed to 'privatisation' of the NHS I did hear someone on the radio the other day saying that given the lack of trained radiographers in the UK to resource a 24hr service,  there was merit in firing over the pictures to folk in say Australia or elsewhere who are on duty during their day and alert,  as opposed to having to wait for the analysis or have folks her on-call / over stressed from working excessive hours and more likely to make mistakes.

I'm sure reciprocal arrangements, be it radiography analysis or VAR, could be made to keep the costs in order.

There is certainly benefits to be had by working with others as opposed to keeping everything in-house.

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upthehoopsPosted on3:09 pm - Dec 20, 2019


wottpi 20th December 2019 at 11:06

upthehoops 20th December 2019 at 09:33

Regarding the advice given on what team to support it would  be simpler if folks followed the advice I gave to my son when he said he wanted to start going to watch professional games.

Best support your local team.

In his case he had the choice of Hibs and Hearts and he chose Hearts for his own reasons, nothing what so ever to do with me.

I am sure there are Hoops fans who tell their kids that the only team they will ever get to support is Celtic.

===============================

The local team argument is a very complex one I would not like to get into. Certainly for someone of my age (57) who was brought up as a Catholic in the West of Scotland. According to official Government statistics, Catholics did not achieve social parity in Scotland until 1993, so it's hardly a shock a lot of them ended up going to watch the same team. 

In terms of your other point of course many children will still be brought up with little option other than to support Celtic, just like it will be for example in many Rangers and Hearts supporting families. My point was the BBC had a very prominent commentator for many, many years who admitted when he retired that Celtic were not welcome in his household. Many people questioned his neutrality over the years and I have to say his admission may have gone some way to vindicating their views. That does not mean of course he was not a person of sound character who would have harmed no-one, but he was paid out of public money.

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StevieBCPosted on3:17 pm - Dec 20, 2019


Actually, being a realistic Scottish footy fan…

I suppose the SFA would want some consistency WRT the VAR set up?

We recently learned that IF Scotland actually qualified for The Euro's next year, Murray Park has already been provisionally booked as the Scotland team base during the tournament.

So, likewise, any VAR room(s) could very well be based at Murray Park as well… enlightened

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upthehoopsPosted on3:20 pm - Dec 20, 2019


On the subject of VAR, I am all for it in Scottish football. I  sure everyone knows there is a far bigger need for it than just pandering to what Stevy G wants. Let the Daily Record put whatever slant they like on it. 

In terms of who the VAR officials will be, and whether or not they will be impartial, I am quite sure it most likely will be retired Scottish Grade 1 officials. However, to  a man they say they were never biased, and never knew anyone who was biased. What's not to like!

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on3:26 pm - Dec 20, 2019


'StevieBC 20th December 2019 at 12:15

…In practice – and with today's communications – 'the man in the van' could feasibly be of any nationality and/or could be physically located anywhere in the world…

########################

I honestly don't think that our Category One officials refereeing a game in Scotland would accept being overseen (and, on occasion, over-ruled) by officials from another country. Their egos simply wouldn't permit it.

 

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BallyargusPosted on3:55 pm - Dec 20, 2019


Jingso.Jimsie 20th December 2019 at 15:26
I honestly don't think that our Category One officials refereeing a game in Scotland would accept being overseen (and, on occasion, over-ruled) by officials from another country. Their egos simply wouldn't permit it.
============================================================

To be fair, I doubt very much that any referee association would agree to being overseen or over-ruled by officials from another association never mind foreigners.

View Comment

Jingso.JimsiePosted on4:23 pm - Dec 20, 2019


I used the word 'over-ruled' in my post of 1526hrs. That was an error.

The on-field referee is the final arbiter of any decision, including those referred to him/her by VAR.

##########

@ 'upthehoops' 1520hrs:

I don't think that any other country uses 'retired' officials. The FIFA rules aren't clear to me, but it appears that you have to be a currently-listed referee to be a VAR. (FIFA removed the age restrictions on Category One officials in 2015. However, there are extra fitness tests etc. after the age of forty-five.) I may be wrong & happy to be corrected if I am.

 

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paddy malarkeyPosted on4:47 pm - Dec 20, 2019


What would be wrong with hiring some of the crop who are already providing VAR ,with one of our refs beside them learning the ropes and more importantly the standards required ? I still fancy there may be VAR at the Scottish Cup Final .

View Comment

John ClarkPosted on5:54 pm - Dec 20, 2019


My view on the VAR question as it relates to Scotland is a simple one.

Until the SFA apologises to us all for their disgraceful abandonment of right governance and jettisoning of Sporting Integrity in order to save 'Rangers' in 2012 by creating a monstrous lie and undertakes to

 set the record straight by denying TRFC's claim to be continuity 1872 Rangers, stripping RFC of 1872 of all titles and trophies they 'won' while in flagrant breach for years of a fundamental rule,

open up to external, independent investigation of the allegation that there may have been collusion with RFC of 1872 in a  criminal conspiracy, involving lying to UEFA, in order to obtain monies for RFC of 1872 to which it may  not at all have been entitled

there can be no trust in any measure the SFA may take with the supposed object of removing doubt and suspicion as regards 'honest mistakes' /incorrect decisions made by officials. 

That is the damage the SFA has done to itself-totally destroyed any vestige of trust in their integrity unless and until they demonstrate a willingness to correct their grave mistakes.

 

 

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Jingso.JimsiePosted on7:23 pm - Dec 20, 2019


'paddy malarkey 20th December 2019 at 16:47

What would be wrong with hiring some of the crop who are already providing VAR ,with one of our refs beside them learning the ropes and more importantly the standards required ? I still fancy there may be VAR at the Scottish Cup Final .'

##########################

UEFA runs residential training courses in VAR & you have to be accredited by them to operate as a VAR.  You don’t sit next to someone qualified during a live match & ‘learn the ropes’.

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Cluster OnePosted on7:34 pm - Dec 20, 2019


easyJambo 18th December 2019 at 13:07
……………….
Cluster One 18th December 2019 at 18:53
easyJambo 18th December 2019 at 13:07
as they fall due. The first tranche of funding is required from investors in November 2019.
………..
as they fall due. The first tranche of funding is required from investors in December 2019.
……………. Looking around for answers and have had a little help.
……………….
John Bradshaw
@JBLuvsCeltic
·
12h
Replying to
@ClusterOne2
Here is why the TRFC accounts only show an additional £6m required for 2019/20 v £10m in RIFC accounts.

RIFC post balance sheet events have a net £8m received since year end.

TRFC has received £12m since YE, including £5m from King’s Laird.
………………..
https://twitter.com/JBLuvsCeltic/status/1207924354362724352/photo/1

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easyJamboPosted on11:30 pm - Dec 20, 2019


Cluster One 20th December 2019 at 19:34

Replying to
@ClusterOne2
Here is why the TRFC accounts only show an additional £6m required for 2019/20 v £10m in RIFC accounts.

RIFC post balance sheet events have a net £8m received since year end.

TRFC has received £12m since YE, including £5m from King’s Laird.
………………..
https://twitter.com/JBLuvsCeltic/status/1207924354362724352/photo/1

=======================================

I'm not sure that interpretation of the post balance sheet events is conclusive.

The "Going Concern" comments by King and Dickson in the RIFC and TRFC reports respectively are identical barring the substitution of £10m by £6m.

I don't think that it is clear whether or not the £5m loan facility is part of, or in addition to the £10m/£6m. However, both sets of accounts note that the provision was required/provided in October 

I can reconcile the £17.2m worth of RIFC shares issued post year end as £8.6m in pre-existing loans converted in August, £7m in new loans converted in September and £2.1m in new loans/cash in November.

TRFC indicates that they received £7m in capital contributions. That would seem to tally up with the £7m of loans converted in September.

I don't know where the £2.1m raised in November ended up, although the repayment of £1.7m (in cash?) of loans noted in the RIFC post balance sheet events had to have been sourced from somewhere.  

What is not in dispute is that the club's progress in the EL will provide substantial income in excess of what they had budgeted in their cash flow forecasts. They only signed Kent after they qualified for the group stages, so those elements may balance themselves. Their subsequent results and progress to the knock out stages must be a bonus. 

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paddy malarkeyPosted on1:56 am - Dec 21, 2019


Jingso.Jimsie 20th December 2019 at 19:23

Don't want to get into a spat , especially as I'm slightly wasted , but I was relying on the IFAB VAR handbook , which doesn;t mention UEFA , or any other association ,for that matter . I wasn't being flippant or suggesting a scenrio that merely sitting watching somebody doing their job qualifed  you to do the same , merely that we have to start somewhere , and letting our guys sit beside competent operators of the system now would give them some insight into it's operation – it's used it in England most days now because of Amazon's overkill . I would expect formal training and accreditation prior to it's implementation in the Scottish leagues and cups .Being an international construct , there must be other national associations providing training ,so why must ours be accredited by UEFA ? The stuff Ilooked at – 

http://theifab.com/projects/vars/background-scope

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/news/newsid=2590884.html

https://www.knvb.nl/downloads/bestand/9844/var-handbook-v8_final

That sobered me up !

 

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