Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?


Campbellsmoney says: March 7, 2014 at 3:41 pm That was very …

Comment on Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed? by Auldheid.

Campbellsmoney says:

March 7, 2014 at 3:41 pm

That was very helpful . The difference with football in terms of power of the largest shareholder is that small shareholders tend to be the ones buying match tickets which has to be a consideration in any given situation.

Auldheid Also Commented

Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?

The underlying problem Celtic face in regular last 16 CL or Euro League after Xmas is similar to that of Ajax who have a similar scout – develop – sell model, although being in a league with better competitors means Ajax do not even qualify in some seasons.

Check wiki for appearances.

Celtic at least have a regular opportunity to qualify as title winners to then qualify for CL but the problem they face is how to reduce risk of not qualifying when the best players are sold ( as they were last summer with Celtic having no real choice in the matter) .

It takes time for new arrivals to settle in so the trick is to get them in as early as possible in the winter window if possible and also the summer.

By winning the title early and having brought in Griffiths ( who can the lone man up front away given his work ethic) and replacing Ledley with Johanson they seem to have learned a bit from last year.

A Snodgrass or equivalent signing in the summer with injured players ready by then should see them better prepared to qualify and compete than they did in this year’s CL.

I would prefer CL group 3rd place every year than a last 16 one in 3 ( but would not grumble if if that was exceeded. 😉

Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?

When you say Celtic can be serious euro contenders do you mean being in Europe after Christmas or quarter or semi or finals?

What would it cost to be serious contenders at that level?

Most clubs that are there either have a wage bill subsidised by sugar daddy money or TV income way above what they get for reaching the later stages.

Celtic do not have either and being in Europe after Christmas either last 16 CL or Europe League is a realistic target. That should be achievable without it costing more than the return on expenditure.

Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?

On your point about tsfm not addressing the issues regarding how to improve the game in general and on redistribution of CL money, if you were able to browse back I think you will find it raises it’s head from time to time and I’m really glad to hear it is an issue finally being aired mainstream and being resurrected again here.

TSFM has a point on Celtic ‘ s willingness to forego any CL income depends on where Celtic see their future.

That in turn requires that vision to be clarified. If for example it will take a number of years to break free of current boundaries originally set by geography but broken by TV, then there is a case the club could make to supporters and shareholders for foregoing a percentage of the CL income coming their way.

Between that income for say the next 5 years and profit from player sales and after improving the match day experience around the ground and internal capacity building what happens to what is left over?

Redistribution to shareholders or redistribution within the game?

That is not a decision Celtic can make without dialogue with the shareholders nor can the dialogue start until their is a clearer idea of which camp Celtic see themselves having to pitch their tent in the next 5 years.

In the meantime it seems, ironically as the nation decides on whether to stick or twist, that in football there is a growing realisation of just how much we need each other.

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Hirsute Pursuit

Thanks for the clarification.

I can see how the Brechin reason and Romanov reason got conflated back then so we can drop Romanov from the underlying issue to look at which is:

What was the argument in support of the change in SPL rules introducing owner and operator and if it was solely to deal with a potential problem in respect of Brechin having no “owner” of a share, how did that rule change in 2005 transform Rangers from being an incorporated single Public Limited Liability Company (PLC) earning its revenue from football to a Public Limited Liability Company (PLC) that overnight owned a club earning the same income from the same source?

In terms of conforming with UEFA FFP before 2012 was it Rangers FC PLC that applied for a UEFA Licence or Rangers FC as a stand alone club or was it Rangers PLC whom Rangers Football Club had a written contract with to be their operators? The application template suggests it was Rangers Football Club only.

Post 2012 if its not the current club (Rangers FC Ltd) applying for a UEFA licence but the football Company (Rangers International Football Club PLC) they have a written contract with and the football company’s (RIFC) main source of revenue is from the club activities, then how can a Company go bust unless the club ceases to be able to provide that revenue?

Now had UEFA seen the 5 Way Agreement there would be the satisfaction of knowing they were OK with it.

As it stands UEFA did what their rules told them to do, Waited 3 years to allow the club that had undergone a terminal change in its legal structure to satisfy UEFA requirements in respect of historical membership of the SFA before being eligible to apply to play in UEFA competitions in circumstances that were not to the detriment of the integrity of those competitions.

After 3 years, whichever club ie legal entity that applied for a UEFA Licence, it was not the Rangers Football Club (PLC) that last applied in 2012 (which was rejected because they had no audited accounts and the wee tax bill of 2011 was admitted , unlike March 2011 when described as a potential liability, as a payable that as the world and its wean knew in 2012 was outstanding.)

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HirsutePursuit 13th March 2021 At 21:31
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On the subject of a franchise…

At the very least the possibility that the 5 Way Agreement has turned Scottish Football into a franchise should be explored by UEFA just in case.

On McDonalds I remember reading McDonalds Behind The Arches many years ago and one of the fascinating things to come out is that their wealth was not based on burgers but on the land and buildings owned . Kind of fits your point to your family member.

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On exclusions zones because supporters might turn up for invented reasons I think recognition of “knuckleheadessness ” as an all pervading human condition is necessary.


I think it is an American term.

I quite like it, kind of onomatopoeic quality to it. Not so much sounds like but looks like.

Anyhoo it is a denial of reality that the support of Celtic and “Rangers” do not have their share of knuckleheads and they recognise each other.

The knuckle in the head stops the consequences of the emotions reaching the brain.

It’s a condition that most grow out of but it’s also one that we grow into before we grow out of it. A human condition.

So best not deny it and deal with it free from judgment of which support has the most knuckleheads or which kind of knucklehead is worse than the other.

Just say that anyone turning up at CP will be taken as evidence of knuckleheadedness to become huckleheads into a police van.

Set a perimeter around the ground and any one approaching without valid reason to do so will be huckled.

HuckleberryTim or HuckleberryHun.

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Upthehoops 13th March 2021 At 18:45
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Auldheid 13th March 2021 At 16:15

It is the huge incentive that CL money provides that in my opinion is the creator of an incentive to cheat to get at it, PARTICULARLY if the ability repay the debt depends on getting the CL money.


Absolutely agree with that. Financial Fair Play in Scotland post 2012 would have been a good move, although the new Rangers would have suffered more than anyone because of it in my view.

And there you have it. Canny have rules that hinder Rangers business model .

If the 5 Way created a franchise like McDonalds but selling hateburgers then sectarianism is only the sauce that goes on the otherwise tasteless moneyburger to make it tasty.

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Hirsute Pursuit

Thanks for your response useful as ever.

If the intent was to create a franchise is that not questionable of itself?

If it wasnt then SPFL misused it.

Either way the SPL appear het, it’s just from when?

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