A Guest Blog by Auldheid for TSFM
Honesty requires both transparency and accountability. In pursuit of honest, transparent and accountable governance of Scottish football, and only that objective, the following letter, with attachments, has been sent to SPFL lawyers, CEO and SPFL Board Members.
An honest game free from deception is what football supporters of all clubs want. It is the action the letter and attachments prompt that will tell us if there is any intention of providing it.
It is a response on behalf of readers here on TSFM, but the sentiment which underpins it is almost universally held amongst fans of all clubs. Importantly it is a response directly to all clubs, especially those with a SPFL Board member, that will make the clubs and the football authorities aware just how seriously supporters take the restoration of trust in an honest game, honestly governed.
The annexes to the letter contain information which may be published at a later date. We thought it appropriate to first await any response from any of the recipients.
Please also draw this to the attention of friends who are not internet using supporters and love their football and their club.
Auldheid
__________________________________________________________________
Harper MacLeod
The Ca’d’oro
45 Gordon Street
Glasgow
G1 3PE
19 Feb 2014
Copy sent to SPFL CEO and Board Members *
Dear Mr McKenzie
We the contributors to The Scottish Football Monitoring web site write to you in your capacity as the legal adviser employed by Harper MacLeod to assist the Scottish Premier League (now the Scottish Professional Football League) to gather evidence and investigate the matter of incorrect player registrations involving concealed side letters and employee benefit trusts as defined in the eventual Lord Nimmo Smith Commission.
We note from the then SPL announcement that set up an enquiry that the initial date range to be covered was from the inception of the SPL in July 1998, but that was changed to 23 November 2000 because, according to our understanding, that is the date of the first side letter supplied by Rangers Administrators Duff and Phelps. It is also our understanding that the SPL asked for all documentation relating to side letters as well as the letters themselves.
It is a matter of public record that Rangers Administrators failed to supply the SPL all relevant documentation. Indeed the seriousness of not complying with SPL requests was the subject of an admonition of Rangers/Duff and Phelps from Lord Nimmo Smith under Issue 4 of his Commission.
Quite how serious that failure to comply or concealment was in terms of misleading the Commission and so Lord Nimmo Smith can now be assessed from the information contained at Annexes 1 to 10 attached.
We think that as legal advisers to the SPL (now the SPFL) you have a responsibility to make them aware that their Commission was misled by the concealment of documents starting on 3 September 1999, and signed by current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie, whose silence on the ebt matters referred to in the attached annexes* is questionable at the very least.
This letter but not attachments is being posted on The Scottish Football Monitor web site as this is matter for all of Scottish football and support for the issue being pursued to establish the truth can be gauged by responses from supporters from all Scottish clubs once the letter has been published there.
A copy of this letter with Annexes has also been sent to the SPFL CEO and members of the SPFL Board.
Acknowledgement of receipt and reply can be sent by e mail to:
(Address supplied)
Yours in sport
On behalf of The Scottish Football Monitor contributors and readers. http://www.tsfm.org.uk/
Addressees copied in
Neil Doncaster CEO
The Scottish Professional Football League
Hampden Park
Glasgow G42 9DE
Eric Riley (Celtic),
The Celtic Football Club
Celtic Park
Glasgow G40 3RE
Stephen Thompson (Dundee United),
Tannadice Park,
Tannadice Street,
Dundee, DD3 7JW
Duncan Fraser (Aberdeen);
Aberdeen Football Club plc
Pittodrie Stadium
Pittodrie Street
Aberdeen AB24 5QH
Les Gray (Hamilton),
Hamilton Academical FC
New Douglas Park
Hamilton
ML3 0FT
Mike Mulraney (Alloa)
Alloa Athletic FC
Clackmannan Road
Recreation Park
Alloa FK10 1RY
Bill Darroch (Stenhousemuir).
Stenhousemuir F.C.
Ochilview Park
Gladstone Road
Stenhousemuir
Falkirk
FK5 4QL
Alan Price says:
March 17, 2014 at 11:39 am
Smugas says:
March 15, 2014 at 7:16 pm
33 1 Rate This
Fantastic spat on sportsound ( that raises a lovely image but I digress). Spencey suggested Stephen Thomson would sit with the Utd fans fearing for his safety in the directors box. Cue faux outrage by everyone’s favourite st mirren fan.
____________________________________
Just tried to access BBC’s sportsound on 15th.
The 14th and 16th podcasts are up, but not the 15th.
Hmmm…
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I trust the podcast for the 16th omits Stewart Milne’s use of the “F” word.
TSFM says:
March 17, 2014 at 1:18 pm
On your Fergus assumption, my information is that you are incorrect – and that Fergus was disbelieving of the fact that the SPL clubs didn’t call the bluff of the fans and allow Sevco into the SPL.
===========
I obviously have no way of knowing whether that is true or not. If it is true, then McCann has gone a long way down in my estimation. I hope it isn’t true.
On the general point, and just to be clear, it is my belief that every top club in Scotland has suffered significant financial loss as a result of the cheating (that’s what it was) of the Murray years. It has nothing to do with Celtic in isolation. It has to do with the whole of Scottish football being robbed blind, financially and in every other way, by a very special interest group, which is still in place, and intends remaining in place no matter what. Celtic are clearly complicit in this- explain for me otherwise why Ogilvie is still in place? Why no response to the LNS farce? Which is why Celtic are now dead to me.
But the whole of the rest of Scottish football deserves justice. Will they get it? Not a hope in hell, when it seems that even we on this forum are now just to passively accept that no consequences whatsoever should attach to one special club for blatant and persistent cheating. Cheating (or even technical rule violations) by a “diddy” club? Hang them out to dry, and no arguments. The whole concept is simply sickening. Has everyone really forgotten what justice entails? If so, I give up.
I watched the CF yesterday and, although the football wasn’t the best, I enjoyed the atmosphere and committment of all concerned; on and off the park.
What I found strange, was the disjointed medal presentation.
There was a brief view of one or two Aberdeen players receiving their medals, never saw any Caley boys get theirs, then the camera focussed on the podium where the trophy was mounted.
I never heard any booing of Doncaster and would not have known anything about it had I not read online of the apparently resounding level of booing from all parts of the stadium.
Did anyone else experience this or was it my imagination.
Did the BBC indulge in some technological sleight of hand with the pictures and the sound?
Wouldn’t be the first time.
Rangers (NIL) cheated by failing to disclose payments to players to the SFA and by using schemes to avoid associated tax (which HMRC claim were not compliant with the law) that resulted in them obtaining a sporting advantage.
We know this. It remains to be proven in a court of law (or equivalent).
LNS and co were deliberately routed away from materials that would have clearly produced a different view of Ranger’s behaviour – this is an important aspect of the Auldheid-led approach to HM and co.
The relevance is that the outcome of LNS was incorrect and there needs to be clarity about how that happened and to put in place new structures / officials to ensure it does not happen again. I think I get that bigger picture. Maybe there is another? If so, please explain it clearly.
However, it is naive to suggest (IMHO) that such a move can be presented as future-facing only, as it inevitably requires an acknowledgement that the previous process was flawed.
If I was Rangers-minded, I simply would not believe that the process being engaged upon here would not lead to at least re-examination of title stripping etc. I just would not believe you.
Being a fan of one of the other clubs, I remain absolutely outraged that Rangers have essentially got away with cheating with titles intact and without punishment awarded.
I believe that title-stripping is an inevitable consequence for any team that is subsequently found to have deliberately cheated in the manner that Rangers clearly did. It happens in other sports – why not here?
I believe that there ought to be some sort of punishment awarded by way of a deterrent factor for the future. Given the nature of previous punishments awarded for much less serious transgressions, this one would have to be severe – possibly expulsion from the game. Certainly sine die bans for responsible individuals. This might be a moot point since the club that engaged in such cheating is currently being liquidated. However, the awarding of such a punishment would still send out a message for the future. Of course, to do so would finally nail the OCNC debate, with knock on implications for continuity of history…
By all means let’s try to build a consensus for a way forward that brings together as many groups of fans and clubs as possible.
However, if that way forward starts with the suggestion that the slate is wiped clean, and history is not changed to reflect past proven cheating – sorry – you can count me out.
Not in my name.
Thomthttim, the cup presentation was a bit shambolic, as you say. I thought it left Topping looking a bit undignified. I certainly heard booing on tv, and then saw Mr Doncaster – my conclusion was that he was the target.
Neepheid,
The reason given for CO still bein in residence is that no one was prepared to stand for election, hence he was returned unopposed.
I totally agree with you that as long as the cabal run the game, then the game is finished.
The optimist in me hopes that the apparent compliance from the other clubs lies in the hope/knowledge that there is a job to be done in cleaning and salvaging the game, but as long as there are outstanding issues affecting the delinquent club, a proper Renaissance can’t be implemented.
My hope and probably only hope of retaining an interest in the game is that there are good men and women, waiting in the wings to seize the opportunity to purify Scottish football.
However, to do so would mean eradicating a culture at Hampden that has been in place for most of the 20th. Century. A tall order.
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
March 17, 2014 at 12:58 pm
WRT the granting of a licence to play next season,surely the accounts of TRFC and not the holding company must be released before any licence can be granted?
____________________________________________
I’m coming round to the idea that it might not be such a bad thing if ‘The’ Rangers are granted a licence to play European football next season.
Of course this would depend not only on a licence, but on them achieving the unlikely feat of reaching the Scottish Cup final.
Should it indeed come to pass, it will be entertaining to see if Ally McCoist’s managerial skills have improved since his last foray into European competition.
I think not somehow.
blu says:
March 17, 2014 at 2:08 pm
0 0 Rate This
Thomthttim, the cup presentation was a bit shambolic, as you say. I thought it left Topping looking a bit undignified. I certainly heard booing on tv, and then saw Mr Doncaster – my conclusion was that he was the target.
*****
Thanks for the response.
I saw Doncaster, but I wouldn’t know Topping if he sat on top of my pokey hat!
I was probably distracted trying to figure out who the kid was who was cocked up on the podium and what was he doing there.
TSFM – I agree that getting at the truth (your words) trumps title stripping and I believe that improved governance in Scottish football is an equally important goal. But the truth you seek is that Rangers cheated Scottish football and cheated society. For me one of the most nauseating episodes in this whole saga was having to listen to the Sevco manager claim that the Decision of the LNS Commission meant that any allegation of cheating had been proven wrong. Rangers gained an unfair sporting advantage through their use of DOS payments and through their use of at least some (the 5 players about whose EBTs they conceded tax was due) and in my opinion all EBTs. Title stripping recognises that cheating took place. Keeping their tainted honours allows McCoist to continue to tell blatant lies.
TSFM says:
March 17, 2014 at 1:18 pm
2 2 Rate This
EK Bhoy
————
If Scottish football ever got itself sorted out then as a direct consequence of this , we would LNS Red Bull and titles would be stripped , it would be as clear as night follows day. A direct attack on the Rangers , in respect of anything , including stripping titles will result in precisely nothing , so I see quite clearly the tactics at play here.
On my narrow point re the UEFA license, quite clearly the apology is due to Celtic , as Celtic would be the team making the claim …….. however I do believe that a parallel universe will be required for that to actually happen.
In respect of Fergus, unless the gentleman concerned has actually told you , then we are into the realms of speculation (informed or otherwise) and if the SFA say cost Celtic £15M , I know based on past performance from the bunnet , where he would see his interest would be. Your point re Fergus was not one I was addressing, interesting though it may be , ” he thought the SFA and the clubs would vote for the money …….” , well they did after all.
Good luck with this , simply pointing out that the land of milk and honey in relation to Scottish football needs a leader ( we have none) and a seismic event to sign-post things have changed for the better.
If proven then stripping of the titles seems a good place to start , draconian measures against betting against your own team would have been another , etc, etc, etc,sanctions against revealing names in the disciplinary panel ( resulting in death threats ) also another, calling the rest of the leagues bigots, fermenting a boycott of a Scottish Cup game …….
Remember , they don’t do subtle and have necks like steel plate , so you have to catch them out in a blatant lie in open court ….
……… I personally would be flabbergasted if the SFA managed to spend its grant funded ( tax payers) money in a wholly appropriate manner ……… incompetent with the rules , usually means incompetent with money and cronyism will be rife in distributing the money.
Resin_lab_dog says:
March 17, 2014 at 12:02 am
Who is more worthy of punishment?
The defender who deliberately but desperately handles the ball in the box knowing it is his only means of stopping a goal that will see his team lose…
… or the referee that sees it, blatantly… and we see him see it… but elects to wave play on?
Not through genuine error. But through an interest in the outcome of the game.
THIS is what the blog is about.
Punishing RFC(IL) shows a distinct lack of ambition in my view.
They are fans like us (the decent ones).
Let ‘em be.
—————————————————————————————————————-
Let em be that is what I expect to here from Campbell Ogilvie.
If the Govan club is shown to have cheated (which they already have with DOS ) they have to have their trophies removed from them. Why has the SFA and the SMSM protected this club to the extent were I am now not sure they actually got liquidated. Why when suggested they had to go to div 3 and also (pre LNS) that trophies may have to be removed that the fans from the Govan club where on the verge of social unrest (Mr Regan’s term in relation to fans of the Govan club). They have the attitude of WATP and let us not forget all the threats, threats, and possible boycotts etc…where were the decent fans then.??? I have seen no signs of any remorse from the club or their fans concerning the events over the last 2 decades. The banners they display concerning 54 and counting and the latest one 56 and counting if decent fans think this is fine fair enough. I want any titles or trophies won by cheating removed without fear or favour. This is what the SFA do not want to do, why? This is what should be done cheating is cheating and arrogance, defiance and no remorse is all I see from this club and it’s fans.
Why has the silence been deafening from their decent fans.
Bryce Curdy says:
March 17, 2014 at 2:22 pm
And it is the blatant lies, unchallenged by the media, and not corrected by the governors of the game, that is one of the most sickening aspects of the whole affair. There can be few instances of one body, sporting or otherwise, getting away virtually scot-free with so much that it was proven guilty of, as well as so much that it was obviously guilty of (but somehow nobody bothered to chase the proof), than Rangers FC. It is something that couldn’t possibly happen without the connivance of those charged with ensuring our sport is kept honourable and worthwhile. And even if there is no evidence of law breaking or cheating by TRFC, the signs are there that they would be treated in exactly the same way if there was.
ThomTheThim says:
March 17, 2014 at 2:00 pm
I watched the CF yesterday …
…Did the BBC indulge in some technological sleight of hand with the pictures and the sound?
——
Well, I only watched the Sportscene highlights last night when I got home, and I have to say that the footage looked like it’d been cobbled together by the tea-boy. I kind of expect a 10-second piece clipped in to show that the game has gone to extra time, and another when the final whistle goes and players have a break before penalties.
But no, this was one continuous scene-by-scene “highlights” screening with only small captions saying “Extra time” and “Penalties” with not so much as a fade to black or any explanation at all between them. Nothing between the final penalty going in and the trophy presentation, either. And only the briefest showing of the excellent pre-match card display.
A really, really poor effort by the BBC. I could have done better with my camcorder and PC video software.
So, to answer your question – I very much doubt whether any special effort was made by the BBC, because as far as I could make out they couldn’t have been much less interested!
Auldheid says:
March 17, 2014 at 12:22 am
“The SPFL should then wait for the UTT and be preparing a strategy to handle the consequences whatever the result and preparing the ground for all scenarios.”
———————————–
I could see the logic of LNS setting aside the results of the FTT (but of course, not DOS) since at the time of the tribunal the final outcome was not known, nor will it be for some time yet. If he had excluded FTT from his considerations then there would at least have been consistency. His decision did not do this however.
At para 23 of his decision he says:
“…the evidence available for our consideration includes that of witnesses, contemporaneous documents and the narrative of evidence and findings in fact made by the First-tier Tribunal…”
At para 104 he says:
“The Tax Tribunal has held (subject to appeal) that Oldco was acting within the law in setting up and operating the EBT scheme. The SPL presented no argument to challenge the decision of the majority of the Tax Tribunal and Mr McKenzie stated expressly that for all purposes of this Commission’s Inquiry and Determination the SPL accepted that decision as it stood, without regard to any possible appeal by HMRC.”
LNS therefore chose to entrain FTT in his decision. However even at that stage it was known FTT was likely to be subject to appeal. To arrive at a decision that is formed using evidence that is to all effects, incomplete, is an error in my very humble opinion.
He should have either excluded FTT (The big tax case) from his considerations or, since he chose to include it, make some provision to revisit his decision once all the legal avenues had been exhausted.
On the cup semi tickets farrago. Firstly await the result tonight. Secondly, IF it is Sevco to compete AND that moving it from Ibrox is a non starter AND that the 13k maximum allocation is non negotiable then the very least the club should demand is an unquivocal answer to the question Has the lease hire for the semi final been paid up front and is this normal practise? Any failure to answer would only mean one thing.
On yesterday, I can only give you a quote from one of Glasgow’s finest, arranging our queue. He turned to a uniformed colleague and said “Isn’t it just incredible to see all these kids.” Couldn’t agree more.
First class day for all concerned although I agree with someone’s point on the catering!
bogsdollox says:
March 17, 2014 at 1:49 am
“For years the Scottish football was run for the benefit of TWO clubs. They sucked up the income and distorted the game. One of them cheated the other. The one who never went bust was also involved in the distortion it’s fans now want recourse. Do me a favour.”
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Agreed. However to paraphrase something I don’t have the reference for, ‘If a thing is bent out of shape then you have to bend it back further in the opposite direction before it will spring into an upright attitude’.
The two big West of Scotland clubs enjoyed an advantage over decades that smaller clubs did not have access to. This was driven partly be commercialisation, the results of which can be seen in league set ups throughout Europe.
If Celtic fans can now be persuaded to self edit their hubris on the back of bringing their main rivals to heel, then perhaps the opportunity should be grasped rather than looked upon suspiciously. From an objective stand point I can see that this opportunity presenting itself at a time when Rangers are seen to be at a low ebb might be viewed as ‘kicking them when they are down’. However if we are going to wait until all things are equitable then that will arrive only when satan has frostbite.
I understand that circumstances will give rise to cynicism but the alternative is the status quo. I don’t think you are arguing for that either.
joe millers shorts says:
March 17, 2014 at 11:49 am
19 8 Rate This
WOTTPI and Resin Lab Dog
Family tickets and kids for a pound is a great idea, however the family section at Celtic Park is next to the away support. it is not family friendly to have to listen to songs about paedophilia, jimmy saville, wrong country etc. most away fans sing this stuff
PS i did not like to hear the celtic fans on friday night either. apart from the stereophonic Glasgow’s green and white which is fantastic
==============================
Its a good point Joe Miller. Away fans always do seem to be more of a problem whether that’s Dons fans at Celtic Park, Celtic fans at Pittodrie or any other combination. It always seems the away fans have less families in the mix and don’t behave so well as home crowds.
Might be there needs to be more effort in getting families to attend in the away support as this does seem to be a calming influence?
Alan Price says:
March 17, 2014 at 11:39 am
21 1 Rate This
Smugas says:
March 15, 2014 at 7:16 pm
33 1 Rate This
Fantastic spat on sportsound ( that raises a lovely image but I digress). Spencey suggested Stephen Thomson would sit with the Utd fans fearing for his safety in the directors box. Cue faux outrage by everyone’s favourite st mirren fan.
____________________________________
Just tried to access BBC’s sportsound on 15th.
The 14th and 16th podcasts are up, but not the 15th.
Hmmm…
———–
I heard that at the time. What is available online (on the Radio Scotland website) is Off the Ball Part 2 (the new evening show) from Saturday evening.
They had a bit of chat about the semi, ticket allocation, and so on. Lively stuff, worth a listen again …
The inability of the governing bodies to be objective is a function of the captive audience that football fans present. We have seen with Rangers that their fans can be played like an old violin because they have no product switching mechanism they can invoke. Similarly, Scottish football fans and supporters are beholden to the governing bodies. As an association of football clubs there is no legal redress for inconsistency. Unfortunately the fallout may be an increasing interest in the EPL, as witnessed by Angus at the University of Glasgow beer bar. However at least questions are being asked and it might be hoped that in the medium term this will result in a reformation of outlook.
Reports of a press release by Dave King coming up via the Press Association.
Danish Pastry says: March 17, 2014 at 4:31 pm
Reports of a press release by Dave King coming up via the Press Association.
===============================
…along the lines of .. “the Board have rejected my ST plan.” 🙂
Douglas Fraser @BBCDouglasF · 2m
Truce between Dave King + #Rangers board: at least until we see business review. That’s within 1 month + before season ticket renewal
Statement from Dave King
https://twitter.com/Andythemod9/status/445606235979530240/photo/1
RANGERS BOARD REJECT KING PROPOSAL
The Rangers board have rejected Dave King’s plan to ring-fence season-ticket cash, the former director claims.
King met with the ruling Ibrox regime on Friday for showdown talks about the club’s worrying financial state.
The club responded 24 hours later with a statement describing the meetings as a “helpful, open and honest discussion”.
But the South Africa-based businessman’s proposed scheme – that would have protected season-ticket cash from being used to repay a controversial £1.5million loan handed to the new League One champions by investors Sandy Easdale and Laxey partners – was knocked-back by the board.
The loan agreement is secured against the Albion car park and Edmiston House facility and will earn Laxey a £150,000 profit in either cash or shares when it is repaid next year.
King says the board have addressed many of his concerns about the fallen Glasgow giants’ future but revealed the two sides could not find common ground on the topic of season-ticket revenue.
In a statement, the Castlemilk-born multi-millionaire said: “The only significant issue that I discussed with the board that is not contained in the board statement is the Laxey loan facility.
“Mr [Norman] Crighton, on behalf of the board, made a forcible argument as to why the board considered and approved the terms of the Laxey loan.
“The board considered that a combination of legal risk and the current financial position justified the loan terms.
“I replied that a consequence of the board’s view of the high risk to anyone advancing funds to the club is the board’s fiduciary responsibility to ring fence any season-ticket money that is received (even if fans don’t request this) unless sufficient committed financing is in place at that time.
“The board did not agree with me on this logical consequence but I believe that my observation is correct.”
King looked set to go to war with the board when he advised fans to withhold season-ticket cash and instead pay it into a trust fund which would then drip feed the money to the club.
He made his original call after complaining about a lack of transparency about the club’s financial state following last year’s £14.4million loss and rumours of downsizing to boss Ally McCoist’s squad, which King feared would allow Celtic to rack up “10 in a row”.
On top of his concerns about season-ticket cash, the former director – who lost a £20million investment when the club was liquidated in 2012 – also expressed fears that the board would mortgage off Ibrox and Murray Park to secure fresh finance.
But he added: “The board has now publicly dealt with each of the above. The board has affirmed that it regards competition with Celtic and in Europe as being its continued aim and that this outlook will be reflected in the business review that will be published within the next month.
“Crucially, that will allow fans sufficient time to consider the review prior to investing in season tickets but it is also important that the board has now confirmed categorically that they will not use Ibrox or Murray Park as security for any form of fund raising.
“No one should be in any doubt that this public statement and commitment is significant and should be appreciated as such.
“Statements from a public company board are intended to be relied upon so in a couple of weeks we can expect a business review that will reflect the board’s ambition and a funding plan to achieve this.
“We can also rely on the fact that if circumstances change the board would be bound to advise the public in advance of this.”
He added: “The board has now communicated with the fans and has committed to do so in more detail within a month.
“Let us give the board time to comply with its commitment.
“I advised the board that I would wish to be a part of the required fund-raising as a component of a united fan group investment vehicle. This will require further discussion after release of the review in the next month.”
Danish Pastry says:
March 17, 2014 at 5:04 pm
“Statement from Dave King”
————————————-
The Board get King’s qualified seal of approval. Everything is hunky dory then.
Castofthousands says:
March 17, 2014 at 5:14 pm
1 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says:
March 17, 2014 at 5:04 pm
“Statement from Dave King”
————————————-
The Board get King’s qualified seal of approval. Everything is hunky dory then.
———-
On the other hand, the board has said this and that, let’s see if it follows through. But the ‘give them time’ bit is very conciliatory language.
Ibrox and Murray Park not to be used as security, but what is their current status? Did he ask who owns them? Have they already been passed to RIFC? Is the Whyte claim still valid? Mr Crighton pulling all the strings and not Wallace?
More questions.
You wonder why he bothered coming over.
“………………will be reflected in the business review that will be published within the next month………”
“published”
Really?
Campbellsmoney says:
March 17, 2014 at 5:38 pm
All that statement confirms is that Mr King is indeed Scottish Football’s Toom Tabard.
As for the Business Review being published, oh yes please, it’ll be the funniest thing I’ve read that wasn’t written by Terry Pratchett.
Auldheid et al, keep up the good work, your’re trying to get oil out of water, but, you are having more of an impact than I expected.
easyJambo says:
March 17, 2014 at 5:11 pm
“Mr [Norman] Crighton, on behalf of the board, made a forcible argument as to why the board considered and approved the terms of the Laxey loan.
“The board considered that a combination of legal risk and the current financial position justified the loan terms.
———————————-
“Legal risk” seems a rather odd expression – anyone have any idea what they mean by this?
It’s also gone rather quiet on the alternative loan offer from a wealthy fan – did I miss any announcements re that?
Bryce Curdy says:
March 17, 2014 at 2:22 pm
TSFM – I agree that getting at the truth (your words) trumps title stripping and I believe that improved governance in Scottish football is an equally important goal. But the truth you seek is that Rangers cheated Scottish football and cheated society. For me one of the most nauseating episodes in this whole saga was having to listen to the Sevco manager claim that the Decision of the LNS Commission meant that any allegation of cheating had been proven wrong. Rangers gained an unfair sporting advantage through their use of DOS payments and through their use of at least some (the 5 players about whose EBTs they conceded tax was due) and in my opinion all EBTs. Title stripping recognises that cheating took place. Keeping their tainted honours allows McCoist to continue to tell blatant lies.
————————————–
One of the reasons not to focus on titles is that as matters stand all ebts are viewed as lawful.
The UTT might confirm that view. That only leaves the DOS EBTs which are unlawful.
If that issue were to be reopened only one title in 2003 is questionable. What that would mean is that Rangers were cute enough in 2002 (I think it was) to switch from what was an unlawful means of payment to a lawful but still morally repugnant payment method.
It all points to setting LNS aside and waiting for the UTT to deal with the real issue which always was using an unlawful method to pay players, which is what I think the majority of fans thought the registration rules were supposed to guard against.
(Other trophies from 2000 to 2003 are two League Cups and Two Scottish Cups if the players in question took part. )
On the Harper McLeod letter received in response to Auldheid’s draft on our behalf, I think that there may a slim opportunity to construct a dialogue.
To this end I want to echo Auldheid’s original point and make it absolutely clear that this is NOT a campaign to have RFC (IL) punished, nor is it a campaign designed to see any honours stripped from that club. None of that is necessary any longer (at least from my pov).
However there may be an opportunity to get at the truth and to that end, we will be responding within a legal framework, taking into account your views. We have been soliciting advice from legal and business areas with a view to constructing an appropriate response. If there are any of our number who think they can offer some input, please PM me.
Either Dave King left a couple of unshredded files or someone has popped up with a braw looking photo album! Whoofffftd, looks like his cunning plan had no tail, is he just chasing the limelight?
Anyway, bad news on Aberdeen winning the CF, that’s my Godson smitten by Dandies & Sheep, destined to follow his Dad & Grandpa in red, I nearly had him but no, he’s gone to the Redside, I bet he won’t wait 19 years for another, I kinda hope not anyway!
Raman/STV
“Cup final in a moment but let’s go live to New Douglas Park”
😈 🙄 😥
parttimearab says:
March 17, 2014 at 6:06 pm
2 0 Rate This
Legal risk, possibly due to trading while insolvent or the risk of Ahmed getting money ring fenced?
Could the glib and shameless one be back-pedalling a wee bit due to mr Whyte still being involved?? ie ownership of ibrox and Murray park????
So,will Mr King stay on as he said or will he jet out and return at a later date,nothing for him here for now,it will be interesting as to how the msm report this,a Victory for the King ,long live the King ,it would be a scream if they would ask the bears what they make of the outcome from both parties,in both their responses they have set out to confuse the bears and they have the cheek to call this transparency,well lets sit back and enjoy the debate from the bear factions ,they will debate this outcome ,wont they.
Angus1983,
Yes, the BBC appeared to be content to play the whole occasion down.
No comment on the impressive card display, or on the spectacle that CP provided, which added to the atmosphere, I.e., the proximity to the field of the spectators.
At the end of the match, the commentator almost apologised for the lack of “proper facilities” for presenting the trophy, hence the on field podium.
I got the impression that their mission was to protect Hampden’s status as the venue for big games.
Fergus was correct. Glasgow did not need three large stadiums.
Sorry 🙁
nowoldandgrumpy says:
March 17, 2014 at 6:36 pm
Legal risk, possibly due to trading while insolvent or the risk of Ahmed getting money ring fenced?
————-
Trading while insolvent – could well be
Ahmed presumably not as COS already rejected attempt to ring fence
But the statement is very odd…Mr King seems to think that the board have addressed his concerns regarding “my concern that Ibrox and Murray Park would be used as security for some form of financing.”
Well if that’s the case then either the terms of the loan have been altered or the loan is no longer in place.
I would have expected a regulatory announcement from RIFC if either the above had happened (even if the loan had not been drawn on yet).
“Legal Risk” may also be covering the sitution with directors loans. Normally reserved for favourable rates and charges I’m sure the principle would also work the other way!
Taxi for the airport soon???
Not totally OT, but shows that the English FA seems to have a backbone.
And consider the last extract below… 🙄
==================================
“The FA is expected to tell Hull City’s owners that they are not allowed to change the club’s name to Hull Tigers…
Mr Allam…has threatened to walk away from the club, which he bought and helped save from financial collapse in 2010, if his application is rejected…
It is understood that the decision to recommend the application be rejected was unanimous…
Mr Allam said he would walk away “in 24 hours” if the supporters rejected his plans.
“No one on earth is allowed to question my business decisions, I won’t allow it,” he said…”
http://news.sky.com/story/1227346/fa-expected-to-block-hull-city-name-change
ThomTheThim says:
March 17, 2014 at 7:20 pm
.
At the end of the match, the commentator almost apologised for the lack of “proper facilities” for presenting the trophy, hence the on field podium.
============================================
I’d be interested to know what stadiums in the UK other than Wembley and Hampden have those type of facilities. Presenting trophies on the pitch has happened at European finals so there’s surely no big deal. Going back to Hampden, maybe he should apologise for the lack of proper facilities that exist in three quarters of the stadium.
I mentioned earlier the SFA and SMSM’s approach to the Govan club and the strange approach to the liquidation or lack of liquidation of the Ibrox club. You can now add SKY to the liquidation club mystery as the commentator at game tonight just stated ” this is rangers 61st semi final in the Scottish Cup”
Who can explain this mystery, when is liquidation not liquidation, does it not apply in Govan? Serious question. Are we in a parallel WATP’s universe?
The debate regarding the UTT and LNS is, in my mind, getting side tracked.
I really have no interest in whether the EBT scheme was legal or not except as an every day tax payer.
If they do lose the appeal I hope HMRC go after “the same club” for their money because the tax man knows the truth regarding the ‘holding company” farce and he should present the bill at the front door of Ibrox.
This is not about tax law. It is about FOOTBALL LAW and FOOTBALL LAW was broken, ignored, and trampled underfoot not just by RFC but more importantly by the SFA.
This is the crux of this problem. A generation and a half of football fans have been cheated out of a fair competition it really is as simple as that. Every penny spent by every fan, and I include RFC/’The Rangers’ in this, has been paying to watch an empty vessel of a series of competitions. It is a disgrace that, when this information is in the public domain, those charged with upholding the laws of our sport are bigger cheats than the perpetrators of the initial crime. They have bent over backwards to find ways NOT to do their job.
However, as I said last night, the clubs themselves are perfectly happy with this otherwise they would be demanding the people in power leave their positions with immediate effect.
Perhaps fans of every club should hold up banners against their own boards condemning their tacit agreement in this farce.
Campbellsmoney says:
March 17, 2014 at 5:38 pm
“………………will be reflected in the business review that will be published within the next month………”
“published”
Really?
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Aye, It’ll be titled “The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Comedy”
Has there been any explanation yet from the SFA as to the proposed ticket allocation for the Scottish Cup semi? The argument every year is that as far as possible a 50/50 split should be at least attempted. As a Celtic fan I have lost out on many a cup final in the past while many people in the other end easily get a ticket despite not attending a game for years. Personally I don’t mind as one point of a cup final occasion is to have an atmosphere, and if it can possibly be 50/50 then so be it. So why have they decided right away Dundee Utd can’t even get the option to try and sell 25,000 tickets?
TSFM says:
March 16, 2014 at 10:13 pm
I think it is possible to have an honest game in future if the things that are wrong with the game are fixed. If the authorities recognise that mistakes have been made and put in place arrangements to restore sporting integrity to the paramount position then I believe we will have an honest game.
_________________________________________
If I believed that what has happened at Ibrox over the last 10yrs and more was nothing other than mistakes, I would agree with you wholeheartedly, but I don’t.
Rather than mistakes, I believe the actions of those running Rangers was club policy, not mistakes, and when they were caught out they ducked, dived and lied to avoid punishment, and everything possible that could be done was done by football’s authorities to protect them.
How we can have an honest game with Ogilvie and those like him still employed by the SFA I don’t know.
I am not optimistic that the game in Scotland will ever be honest.
If ‘The’ Rangers ever make it back to the premier league it will just be business as usual.
DK’s meeting would’ve went something like this.
DK – I and the majority of the fans want the ST money ring fenced.
Board – No can do. If we try that, we’ll go bust in days.
DK – That loan is out of order.
Board – We know. We had no choice. Accept it or die.
DK – I want in
Board – How much you got
DK – Nothing but I want in
Board – just like SDM. Shout and you shall receive. Go away please.
DK – But I’m Dave King
Board – It’s the big boys now Dave. Tata. Watch the door on the way out.
DK – They’re nothing like the SFA. Nasty men. Skulk, skulk, skulk (Humiliated)
Just back from Glasgow
Terrible game but loved the atmosphere inside and outside the ground.
Great view from my seat and far superior experience than Hampden.
The booing of Doncaster was spontaneous and unanimous among both sets of fans.(Not sure if it’s been reported in the press?)
After the game we took the long walk back to the city centre and oh my goodness what an eye opener that was to this exiled dandy!
Couple of bars in Brigton that I certainly wouldn’t have ventured into!!
Just glad we’ve got the monkey off our back and a trophy in the cabinet.
(The Arabs will have to think of another song to sing to us now 😀 )
Re the 40k plus Dons fans
I met a guy who hadn’t been back to Aberdeen for 30 years but had flown in from Mexico. I met a madman from Ayrshire who was dressed in the full strip and various hat/scarves/sheep etc – he’d never actually been to a game before but his late father was an Aberdonian .
Cup finals bring out all sorts 😛
upthehoops says:
March 17, 2014 at 9:26 pm
19 1 Rate This
Has there been any explanation yet from the SFA as to the proposed ticket allocation for the Scottish Cup semi? The argument every year is that as far as possible a 50/50 split should be at least attempted. As a Celtic fan I have lost out on many a cup final in the past while many people in the other end easily get a ticket despite not attending a game for years. Personally I don’t mind as one point of a cup final occasion is to have an atmosphere, and if it can possibly be 50/50 then so be it. So why have they decided right away Dundee Utd can’t even get the option to try and sell 25,000 tickets?
………………………………………………….
One of the few advantages of being a ‘Diddy’ fan should be the easy ability to see your club play in its ‘once in a blue moon’ cup final. The SFA seem to forget that it doesn’t come around often for the likes of a Dundee Utd etc.
I agree as above – it should be a 50% allocation with a sell out date. Remaining unsold tickets to be sold to bigger team.
Dave King’s climbdown reeks of fear, and leaves the fans without a leader and the club without an alternative plan … it’s a perfect storm.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-revolution-will-not-be-televised/
parttimearab says:
March 17, 2014 at 7:56 pm
““my concern that Ibrox and Murray Park would be used as security for some form of financing.””
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The most recent TRFCL loan was to be secured against the Albion car park and Edmiston House. Not sure what financing King is referring to. TSFM speculation has been that Ibrox and MP might be traded for the RIFC debt.
justshatered says:
March 17, 2014 at 9:07 pm
“It is about FOOTBALL LAW and FOOTBALL LAW was broken, ignored, and trampled underfoot not just by RFC but more importantly by the SFA.”
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On that note, is there really no other occasion when irregular registration has led to a player being sanctioned retrospectively concerning his eligibility to play. The LNS Bryson defence seemed to imply that retrospectively punishment for mis-registration was not provided for in the Laws. There must be a case where a player has later been discovered to have breached eligibility criteria and retrospectively sanctioned as a result, surely. Anyone?
James Forrest says:
March 17, 2014 at 10:47 pm
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I’ve not been able to access your last couple of links James. However the strap line of your latest offering does conjure up a very fitting tune.
http://youtu.be/QnJFhuOWgXg
@Castofthousands
Maybe you could follow up on this. Similar scenario, and I cant remember the outcome, but it does mention there has been other examples, and matches were ordered to be replayed. Brechin were kicked out in 2008 for fielding 2 ineligible players
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1243257/Dunfermline-booted-Scottish-Cup-fielding-Calum-Woods-7-1-victory-Stenhousemuir.html
Just shattered
Sorry but the football law that was broken has been categorised by LNS as an administrative oversight not what we all know it is. LNS is an insult to our intelligence and an affront to football.
Incredulous as LNS is, it is nevertheless football’s response to your point re cheating. An independent enquiry found it so.
Hence the need to discredit those findings and the documents that undermine LNS by making a distinction he was unable to make between lawful and unlawful payments is key to removing an interpretation that is an affront to the sporting nature of football.
The rules and bending them is child’s play to folk who have been bending them for years.
What is being demonstrated here is they went too far and broke them.
There has never been evidence of that before which presents football authority with a different problem of being seen to lie by omission, something of a trade mark of SFA behaviour.
So the nature of ebts is not an end but a means to that end of showing not just that football laws have been broken but the SFA are adept at covering up where they have been broken.
They have previous and it can be demonstrated as will emerge in time.
Allyjambo says: March 17, 2014 at 2:43 pm
There can be few instances of one body, sporting or otherwise, getting away virtually scot-free with so much
_______________________________________________________________________________________
(OT)
I agree, though the MCCRONES REPORT gets my vote.
http://ind.pn/1d2O6tK
James Forrest says:
March 17, 2014 at 10:47 pm
20
2
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Dave King’s climbdown reeks of fear, and leaves the fans without a leader and the club without an alternative plan … it’s a perfect storm.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-revolution-will-not-be-televised/
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Maybe they showed him an unredacted version of the independent inquiry into Green’s takeover?
I imagine the conversation went something like:
‘We won’t be borrowing againt Ibrox and MP because we don’t know who owns them.’
‘Green was a spiv and we ran him out of town. But it was our money he left town with! We intend to get it back. Care to show us the colour of yours!? Didn’t think so.’
‘Laxley’s money was the only way to keep trading until we can rid this festering sore of it useless manager, the numpties he signed on inflated contracts and the bloated cost structure we inherited from the largesse of Green’s smokescreen.
Wanna make something of it!?’
‘Here is our plan going forward. Like it. Lump it. We don’t much care. We do this for a living. Door is just behind you.’
‘In the spirit of openness we will be releasing a statement of what was discussed here.’
‘This conversation was recorded. Its a trick we picked up from somewhere. Memory escapes me, just now.’
Campbellsmoney says:
March 17, 2014 at 5:38 pm
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“………………will be reflected in the business review that will be published within the next month………”
“published”
Really?
______________________________________
Oh Yes.
I believe this is part of the fiduciary duty of any administrator 😆
Danish Pastry says: March 17, 2014 at 4:04 pm
I heard that at the time. What is available online (on the Radio Scotland website) is Off the Ball Part 2 (the new evening show) from Saturday evening.
They had a bit of chat about the semi, ticket allocation, and so on. Lively stuff, worth a listen again …
__________________________________________________________________________
Here’s a link to last Saturday evening’s Off The Ball show for anyone who needs it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03yh3sr
More spin (i.e. lies) from “our” BBC churnalists! 👿 😡
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26618674
More churnalism from The Scotsman, but at least the headline is more accurate.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/rangers-board-reject-dave-king-season-ticket-plan-1-3343548
Don’t shoot the messenger! 😳
sannoffymesssoitizzhizzemdyfonedrapolis says:
March 18, 2014 at 2:13 am
=========================
The media’s ravenous appetite for good Rangers news never ceases to amaze. I see the Herald this morning running with a headline that McCoist stated playing the semi-final at Ibrox is not an advantage. Yet, since Rangers were drawn to play Albion Rovers and right up to the replay, McCoist spoke constantly of the incentive of a ‘home’ tie to come in the semi-final. Now we are to believe that ‘home’ tie, with an SFA guaranteed 37,000 ‘home’ fans is not an advantage at all really. Watching some of the game last night mind you, Dundee Utd will hardly be fearing the football side of things, but surely the opportunity to run out in front of 25,000 Dundee Utd supporters should at least have been attempted.
James Forrest says:
March 17, 2014 at 10:47 pm
30 3 Rate This
Dave King’s climbdown reeks of fear, and leaves the fans without a leader and the club without an alternative plan … it’s a perfect storm.
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/the-revolution-will-not-be-televised/
“The King scheme was ludicrous. It was a shambles, with no earthly hope of yielding a positive outcome, but it brought the end of the whole mess a little bit closer. It would have been bloody, and brutal, and swift and terrible … but it would have been over nice and quick, with another dead football club and the clock re-set to zero all over again.”
———–
Good read James. Even fans think he [Wallace] is merely buying time. The above quote is the fans’ way out, imo. It’s a daring escape plan, and would take courage and sacrifice. Pool their millions and restart — somewhere else.
It would call the board’s bluff. The fans are trapped, though, by the same club myth. Green was very clever and worked a fly one with D&P that enabled him to flip-flop from “No to Newco” to “I bought t’istory”.
So the ‘now, then, forever’ stuff is keeping the fans in a kind of emotional captivity to the renamed Sevco. It’s a bit sad really. Too fond of old habits as well, maybe? There certainly were some habitual songs on the go last night. That one that sounds like: ‘My father’s rash was sore’ and that ends on ‘Good Luck, the Pope’.
Anyway, here’s a Sons of Struth response from their Facebook page:
Mr King: “The board has affirmed that it regards competition with Celtic and in Europe as being its continued aim …”
… and …
“… rumours of downsizing to boss Ally McCoist’s squad, which King feared would allow Celtic to rack up “10 in a row”.”
—
Shurely Mr King meant to say “…regards ongoing financial stability and good practice as being its continued aim.”?
I thought it was traditionally supposed to be Celtic fans that were obsessed with Rangers, not the people in charge of Rangers being obsessed with Celtic! You really would think someone at Ibrox would have learned by now.
Q
What has the DK nonsense achieved and who has benefited?
A
It has filled a news vacuum for the Gullible and delayed the Loonies from setting about the Spivs
The beneficiaries are those who have a financial interest in the passage of time and the GSL who will pay less to pick up the pieces
i.e.
The Spivs in charge and the Spiv in waiting
Every time King who would be The Man appears in this story, a frenzy is whipped up around him and every time that frenzy turns out to be substanceless froth. In effect he says –
1 give him their 120 days,
2 they say they want to be competing at the highest level,
3 they have given me guarantees that they won’t do something (which if they had done would have been so likely to alienate the customer base that the well could very soon run dry)
4 we don’t agree on one issue (which issue is actually the question of wrongful trading dressed up slightly – probably so that no one actually has to say “wrongful trading”).
No explanation of how his “plan” was ever supposed to work.
No explanation of what he heard that means he is prepared to await the outcome of the “review”.
Puff. All just puff and nonsense.
as you say, they’re locked in their own soapy bubble at the moment. Don’t use the properties for refinancing? He’s obviously referring to a further flotation to bring in extra funds. I don’t think that’s the bit of the TRFC balance sheet they’ve got their eye on Dave, to be honest!
Bill1903 says:
March 17, 2014 at 10:40 pm
… Couple of bars in Brigton that I certainly wouldn’t have ventured into!!
===========================================================
So nothing has changed in the 40 years (ouch!) since I worked there then?
Ground rental fees from the SFA for semi finals may be a two week lifebelt but wages still have to be paid every month. Oh to be a new club and only docked 10 points.
I have to say, the statements from both the TRFC board and Dave King have given me great cause for optimism. But then, I am not a TRFC supporter 😀
I suggested a couple of days ago that King might be the new McCoist in the build up to season ticket sales. A different tactic, of course, but a similar tactic to previous years isn’t going to work this time. We’ve seen King attack the board for a very long time (in comparison to the lifetime of the club), building up his assault, and as a result, the trust of the supporters. He came up with the ‘ultimate’ plan, the bears were all behind him with 30,000 showing their card support for him at Ibrox on Saturday. Way to go Dave! He walks away from the meeting of all meetings cowed and the bluster has gone. He seems happy with what they told him. Without saying it, he seems to think things aren’t as bad after all. At least the men at the helm want Rangers (that’s how King’s followers see it) back challenging Celtic and the best clubs in Europe. Lets get out there and buy season tickets, get on board for the ride to the top!
In fact, what appears to be the most important news King brings to the supporters, is that the board want TRFC to be successful. Well I’ve got news for him, and them. The board of Dundee United want that very same success. As does the board of Aberdeen, Hibs, Kilmarnock and even Hearts. We all bloody want success, Mr King. But that doesn’t make one iota of difference to our chances of achieving it, or the chances of surviving the stupidity of spending more money than we can possibly make in the pursuit of that success. The model is there for all to see, and includes the club, now in liquidation, that you helped overspend it’s way into oblivion.
essexbeancounter says:
March 18, 2014 at 9:32 am
So nothing has changed in the 40 years (ouch!) since I worked there then?
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Union Flags flying outside and grim faced bears guarding the doors!
Apparently some dons fans were attacked in there prematch but they should’ve realised that wasn’t a place to go!
Another cup final post script was that the Statues outside the main Stand were all bedecked in red and white after the match. The stewards weren’t too happy but I’m sure wee jinky winked at me 😉
Allyjambo, by injecting a touch of humour to a post, I received at the last count four td’s. Never mind. I was trying to emphasise that DK walked into the meeting like a man who was going to raze Ibrox to the ground if he didn’t get his way but the result was the opposite. He left the meeting like a damp squib. The supporters who backed him will again, feel lost with nowhere to turn.
IMO, his plan was a non starter with little thought in how it was to be implemented. The end result would have been more pain for their club which is the last thing fans want. They want the anonymous investors gone but that isn’t going to happen anytime soon. They have two options open to them;
1) walk away (we know they don’t do)
2) suffer until a white knight is willing to invest around £50-£70million.
The road ahead for the supporters is going to be torturous. Whatever happens, the way ahead will not be without pain and suffering. The fans grasp at any flicker of hope but will eventually say, no more. The only way to rid the place of spivs is to walk away and keep their hands firmly in their pockets.
Well, that was another impressive intervention from the King across the water, wasn’t it? Almost as impressive as his ten minute session with the Easdale boys at Inchinnan bus garage a few months ago.
So what have we learned? Some interesting stuff.
Firstly, the people who own a company, control that company. Amazing, isn’t it? The Board of RIFC won’t be doing what King tells them, but will be closely following the instructions coming from the shareholders. And those shareholders will be looking after their own financial interests.
Secondly, King is all for helping the fans to invest their own cash, but no sign whatsoever of King putting his hand in his own pocket. He is very careful in all his statements never to mention his own money. He just wants to be part of a fan fundraising scheme- whatever “part of” means.
Finally, King has scurried off from Glasgow like his shirt tail was on fire, having promised the faithful that he would stay as long as it took to get his crackbrained season ticket scheme in place. A scheme designed to effectively give King a security over the company’s properties. Which raises the question, is King really a businessman, or something else altogether? Because any honest businessman would have simply laughed at King’s laughable scheme.
Has King actually gone back to SA?
Anyone got a flavour of what the fans who bet the farm on him are saying about it all?
My thinking was that King had some leverage, but the threat of a “Yes we are a new club” statement from the board if King carried out his ST scheme would have trumped everything.
In other words, King did not really have any leverage at all.
TSFM
My post at 1:16 am on March 18, 2014 still showing “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”
Have I inadvertantly done something wrong?