Good Evening.
When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.
It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.
However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.
Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.
Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.
Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.
Job done so to speak.
Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.
Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.
Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.
No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.
Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.
In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.
As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.
Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.
Ever!
It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.
All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.
The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!
All to suit one man!
Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?
Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.
Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.
Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.
With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.
Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?
At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.
It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.
What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.
This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.
It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.
Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.
It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.
All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.
Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.
Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.
Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.
Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?
Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.
Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.
It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor! There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.
greenockjack says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 09:56
Eco
At what point (level of reasonable doubt as to where developing situation was going) would trading be suspended in a company in the AIM martket ?
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I don’t know the answer to that and am not sure there is one as plenty of AIM shares are traded in fractions of a penny or at least have been and I’m not sure the rules prevent this. At the end of the day the market finds it level and shares can go down as well as up.
I think the suspension could follow the chairman reporting to AIM that the majority of the board or a significant number of it was concerned about the company situation and the share suspension can be seen as a ‘breathing space’ to get things sorted. It might also come from pressure from institutional investors who probably, in the first instance, would have attempted to bring pressure on the board and failed.
Then there is the role of the NOMAD which is dual and that is to represent the company but also to ensure that AIM Regulation is followed only they are paid from the company. One of the biggest weaknesses in the whole AIM system of course.
So there is a whole mix of things swirling about behind closed-doors that could affect things. In this particular scenario there is also the entry of the new AIM entity squaring up to RIFC Plc and that must terrify AIM Bosses especially all the talk about blockbuster movies to blow the lid of the tawdry casino.
carntyne says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 10:47
Night Terror says:
Thursday, April 18, 2013 at 11:54
Have I missed something about the 5 Way Agreement?
What is assumed to be in it? How much do we know about what is in it? Why is it so important?
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I don’t know what’s in it. My concern is why they have decided to keep what’s in it secret
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There’s a fascinating take on what’s in it contained in the Rangers AIM Flotation document which raises tantalising glimpses that there may be real fear of legal action against individual suits. I normally dismiss Green’s legal bluster out of hand but on this one it’s worth reading.
I did post at length on the subject here previously but no one seemed to be interested although I do believe it is important info.
wottpi says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 09:33
Very good point. I played on most Saturday afternoons from my early teens into my early 20s, only bad knee injury ending my playing days. I was (still am), as you might guess, a mad keen Hearts fan and so, like many of my team mates missed games we would all have attended. On winter days, with our early kick-offs, we would often make a mad dash for Tynecastle if Hearts were at home, I’m sure the Hibs fans did the same, or actually be quite happy to have games called off so we could watch the whole game. For us, though, the motivation was to one day play for Hearts, and we knew we couldn’t achieve that by standing on the terracing, but very few pitches were made available for Sunday games, and at one time probably none, and many youngsters would have been stopped by their parents from playing on a Sunday anyway, so, with Schools football in the morning, only Saturday afternoons were free for juveniles to play. Times have changed, but it’s probably too late now, with pub teams already filling the public parks, and I’m not blaming them, I’d join them if it were possible 🙂 , but it is, as you suggest, a pretty ludicrous situation, but we will need a lot more public parks and pitches if any change is to come about; and I’m afraid that just aint gonna happen 🙁
Eco
Thank´s for the reply.
In one earlier reply a poster talks of “all sorts of mischief” and you too alude to room for creativity.
I can´t pretend to be knowledgeable about the financial sector but I do get an over-riding sense of expensive suits taking advantage of lax regulation and legislation to the eventual and inevitable detriment of the ordinary punter on the street or as it seems here, the ordinary supporter in the stand.
When does the man in the street or the supporter in the stand say, enough ?
wottpi says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 09:57
Sorry, wottpi, don’t know the answer. All I can tell you is at the recent issue I bought what I could afford and paid no interest to the actual share price. It was a totally emotional non-investment and I’d have contributed to a begging bowl to save my club! As I explained to my wife, who contributed also, even if I buy shares, and Hearts still go bust, at least I’ll know that I’d done my best. Like many on here, I hate the idea that football is a business, though I know it has to be, to me it’s a love affair, and if we had any sense at all we’d never get involved in them either (don’t tell the wife I said that 😉 ).
I presume the majority of Rangers fans who bought into RIFC, the ones with the ability to think for themselves, anyway, felt exactly the same.
wottpi,
Just realised I misunderstood your question. I thought you were enquiring after Heart’s share prices. Hope my reply wasn’t too boring 🙁
greenockjack says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 11:09
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Eco
Thank´s for the reply.
In one earlier reply a poster talks of “all sorts of mischief” and you too alude to room for creativity.
I can´t pretend to be knowledgeable about the financial sector but I do get an over-riding sense of expensive suits taking advantage of lax regulation and legislation to the eventual and inevitable detriment of the ordinary punter on the street or as it seems here, the ordinary supporter in the stand.
When does the man in the street or the supporter in the stand say, enough ?
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greenockjack – I’d think that Rangers fans would want to look at how their club’s being run, who owns it and what they want to do with it so they can get out having made some cash. Ultimately it’ll be the fans who pay, again. How much of their own cash did Murray (D), Whyte and Green spend?
allyjambo says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 10:58
Yes similar to me, but even then as you say it was often either play yourself or miss your senior team.
While I take you point about access to pitches I do get a feeling that sometimes when passing pitches, that used to be filled by a number of games over the weekend in days gone by, they are not as well used as yesteryear.
However I also think Mars Bars have gotten smaller etc etc,
You are right you can’t blame the pub teams for wanting to play and run off the beer intake but surely some thought and priority should be given to the youngsters if we want to develop a wider pool of talent.
The other problem back then in my day was of course that some really good players who were playing for ‘lesser’ boys clubs were often overlooked for the players in the ‘bigger’ clubs who had all the blazers and the links to the high heid yins. The fact that a lad managed to get into one of the big teams was often good enough to merit some attention.
allyjambo says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 11:12
allyjambo says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 11:17
No worries and BTW your contributions are never boring.
Allyjambo
Why does Scottish Football have to be a business ?
I accept that money is involved and it is always going to be partly business.
But it´s not a question of Sport or Business, it´s about the degree that you let business dominate the Sport.
The balance is currently wrong.
Business dominates because it funds the Gravy Train that roles through the game.
The supporters role is to fund the GT, we have power if we can harness it.
You can also say that the problem comes from beyond our borders and that for a uniform solution you´d need UEFA to act.
In a bygone age, the Scots led the way in various fields, so why not try and take advantage of the crisis before us to push for something truly different.
It would have to come from the supporters, those with the power if they chose to use it.
Park the petty squabbles, they are partly what those on the GT depend upon so as keep the trough as full as the given moment allows.
greenockjack says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 11:25
isn’t this what FPP is really about?
Blu
I’d think that Rangers fans would want to look at how their club’s being run, who owns it and what they want to do with it so they can get out having made some cash. Ultimately it’ll be the fans who pay, again. How much of their own cash did Murray (D), Whyte and Green spend?
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To answer your question, not a lot and they have and will go away with a personal net profit.
I see the developing situation at Ibrox and can´t say I´m optimistic, that being down to many different factors.
Scapa
IMO if you want meaningful change then we the support have to force the issue/agenda/eventual changes otherwise it´ll be a cosmetic makeover.
You would be looking at a confrontational situation where enough supporters would be telling their own clubs, meaningful change or the GT stops here.
ecobhoy says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 10:51
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Good point re AIM generally. But that also brings to mind the cost of having a NOMAD which is in the broadest terms at a minimum of £400K-£500K per annum.
That will be an ongoing additional cost to RIFC/TRFC – £10K a week just to be on aim, why you could get 50 Kane Hemmings for that sort of money.
The running costs are heading only one way at present and that is through the roof of the Ibrox Hoverdome,
We seem to be stuck in Groundhog Day a year on from the shenanigans of the administration; At present, amongst the current affairs there is
the internal independent enquiry,
the state of Charles Green’s garden
Orlit’s litigation which I understand is shortly to come back to the fore
Ticketus and its successful court action
Worthington and its litigation strategy in relation to Sevco 5088/ Sevco Scotland
the forthcoming book and film
the tumbling share price (“shares can go down as well as plummet”)
HMRC’s appeal in the big tax case which will probably start at the beginning of October
Imran Ahmed’s mum’s bank account
the Police Scotland raids a couple of weeks ago
BDO
CW’s other sound recordings, particularly the early ones from his meetings/conference calls with Murray and his advisers
Ally waiting for his cheque for £10,000,000
the timing of the season book renewal (originally early March, now kicked into the long, uncut grass)
If you stop for a moment and consider the incidental costs which all of the above is generating, particularly legal costs, then the dissipation of cash from the RIFC bank account must be accelerating Shirley?
One would imagine that any legal or financial adviser with half a brain, on being asked to do work on behalf of RIFC or TRFC, would politely ask for a significant payment to account to allow the work to be carried out.
All of that will be having a detrimental effect on cash flow and without any line of credit, the outlook is not great.
I strongly suspect that despite the wishes of the SFA and the MSM the problems of league reconstruction, which presently loom large on the horizon, will shortly become insignificant relative to the tsunami which is about to wash over Ibrox.
What people needed to remember, but most conveniently forgot, is that the original Rangers died last year. That fact can never be changed or forgotten.
Only once that is accepted can Scottish football move on. It would indeed be tragic if it took another death of another Rangers before the point is finally accepted by those still in denial.
Think we all know what the prospects for the share price are, expert or not. The bothersome bits for me are:
1. Who is on this independent enquiry?
2. What timescale have they been given?
3. Why an enquiry when (presumably) honest answers from CG would have sufficed?
4. Why no questioning or comment in the MSM along these lines?
Perhaps my answers are out there, and I’ve just missed them. Apologies if so.
greenockjack says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 11:37
In an ideal world perhaps, but scroll up a few pages and review the discussion around St Mirren, and then ask yourself how likely a united fan base actually is
greenockjack says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 11:32
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Blu
I’d think that Rangers fans would want to look at how their club’s being run, who owns it and what they want to do with it so they can get out having made some cash. Ultimately it’ll be the fans who pay, again. How much of their own cash did Murray (D), Whyte and Green spend?
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To answer your question, not a lot and they have and will go away with a personal net profit.
I see the developing situation at Ibrox and can´t say I´m optimistic, that being down to many different factors.
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greenockjack, I should have prefaced my comment by saying that the discussions/anxiety (for Rangers fans) about the share price is something of a red herring. They really need the Non-Execs to step up.
I’m with you on the need for Scottish football to look for a new model that allows for genuine competition. Unfortunately any efforts in that direction will be viewed as opportunism by Rangers to ease their passage back to the SPL (and then world domination) and resistance by others as an effort to maximise the gains whilst Rangers are in turmoil.
Never mind nuclear, we need Bismarck, soon.
Scapa @ 11:49
I hear you and see it as a significant challange.
I would also say that the situation is becoming ever more critical and that Scottish football is not far away from the cliff edge in many respects.
Even the ordinary supporter in the stand is beginning to see the dearth of leadership when it comes to the interests of the game as a whole.
Blu
I should have prefaced my comment by saying that the discussions/anxiety (for Rangers fans) about the share price is something of a red herring. They really need the Non-Execs to step up.
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Some did but not enough to fully force the issue.
famoussong says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 11:43
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Think we all know what the prospects for the share price are, expert or not. The bothersome bits for me are:
1. Who is on this independent enquiry?
2. What timescale have they been given?
3. Why an enquiry when (presumably) honest answers from CG would have sufficed?
4. Why no questioning or comment in the MSM along these lines?
Perhaps my answers are out there, and I’ve just missed them. Apologies if so.
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None of these things should trouble us, at the moment. This ‘enquiry’ is purely an internal matter for RIFC and the results may never be made public. What SHOULD concern us is if the ‘authorities’ decide not to hold an official investigation to allow the company to continue its own enquiry unhindered.
Scott
How many investigations (that include events surrounding purchase of assets) do you want ?
At present you have BDO, Police and SFA (awaiting a reply).
It doesn’t seem like a great combination perhaps, but Brian Mawhinney on Keays and Gray a short while ago was very interesting on the problems facing the game from finance, egos, good governance etc, and the opposing forces that are the demand for success and the need for sustainability. Very relevant to where we are in Scotland, we are part of a worldwide problem, and a problem that is going to cause havoc before it either gets resolved, or destroys the game.
To clarify – the problem is from a LACK of good governance!
greenockjack says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 12:06
Scott
How many investigations (that include events surrounding purchase of assets) do you want ?
At present you have BDO, Police and SFA (awaiting a reply).
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Well, indeed. I do think the SFA have to have an official inquiry into the exact circumstances of the Green takeover as they may have been lied to deliberately.
Is there currently a police investigation into the D&P to Sevco administration sale?
And BDO have been very quiet but one can assume are watching with interest.
The point is, though, that each body is looking at what happened from a different angle and with a different set of outcomes in mind; some of a legal variety no doubt.
This story has so many angles to it that it would seem unlikely that a single investigation would reveal the truth. (We may have to wait for the film! (True Lies?)). It’s certainly been a fascinating journey over the last couple of years.
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 12:12
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It doesn’t seem like a great combination perhaps, but Brian Mawhinney on Keays and Gray a short while ago was very interesting on the problems facing the game from finance, egos, good governance etc, and the opposing forces that are the demand for success and the need for sustainability. Very relevant to where we are in Scotland, we are part of a worldwide problem, and a problem that is going to cause havoc before it either gets resolved, or destroys the game.
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Didn’t much admire the man’s politics but he gave it a real go in trying to sort the EFL, particularly on the financial side. Even he though struggled with the EPL and FA. Would be the kind of individual that might have a chance of knocking heads together in Scotland if he wasn’t both out of Scottish football’s league and there wasn’t any will to sort things out anyway.
barcabhoy says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 06:38
Interesting prediction but if I was a betting man (which I’m not!) I’d say odds against it. Maybe Longmuir is a man who always favours blue underpants and Sevco’s reach is far, but where I’m not convinced is the perspective of the current 1st Division clubs. To have the benefit of playing TRFC next season home and away as opposed to the following season is only timing. While I wouldn’t dismiss that, it throws away a bigger potential prize.
Clubs like Dundee and Dunfermline have seen a tantalising glimpse of a better future on a permanent basis with a reasonable trickle down from the SPL put in place. If I was at those clubs I would be working as hard as I could to get some fairly close relative of the recently defeated proposal in place, if that is at all possible. The formation of an 18/12 SFL structure could move that prospect further away. It obviously doesn’t fit with a 12 /12 / 18 and if the outcome of agreeing 18/12 was a further deterioration in the relationship with the SPL (which it could be as it could come across as “stuff you lot, we’ll do what we like”) then it’s really not going to make a beneficial redistribution more likely.
If Longmuir is on his own agenda then I’d anticipate some sparks flying in the SFL before long if my perception is correct and those in charge of 1st Division Clubs do not want their interests put at risk for the benefit of TRFC.
There is a fairly obvious short term way ahead for Scottish football as a reasonable fix. This is to marry up most of the package just rejected with the existing 12/10/10/10 set up. So get the pyramid in place, one league body, plays off for the top tier (but in a different format) and some redistribution but reduced to reflect the reduction in new income that will not now arise if 12/12/18 is rejected. Also amend the voting sufficiently to enable sensible majorities to vote through further change (and ensure any two club “lock” only applies to as few issues as possible. Then let the dust settle for a couple of years while a more considered longer term improvement is worked up in a transparent, consensual way.
Scott
The SFA have written to CG requesting that he clarifies the situation.
They did the same to CW after the first BBC documentary.
BDO: Is very much part of their remit.
Police: The media have made clear that the police investigation into the takeover of May 2011 has now moved into events 2012.
Findings from BDO and/or The Police would surely trump those of the SFA.
greenockjack says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 12:41
The SFA do not have the expertise for this sort of thing. On this particular occasion awaiting clarity from one of the professional investigations would be the wise move.
Further to previous
The SFA may be tempted (and wise) to let other investigations to lead the way.
Scapa
You just beat me !
Therefore expect similar timescales as to the SFA following up on correspondence with CW post 1st BBC documentary.
greenockjack says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 12:50
Aye, patience is the order of the day on this one.
Am I just stating the bloomin’ obvious to say something is wrong when on the one hand you have the difficulties of basic funding of football to give access to school age kids, illustrated by the excellent post on TSFM yesterday evening by 1sarantseville, while on the other hand you have:
“More than two thirds of the Premier League’s record £2.4bn income in 2011-12 was paid out in wages”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/18/premier-league-clubs-wages-players
Something slightly obscene here surely? OK, Sky make a load of money from people buying their packages for sport, esp. football, so they can afford mega amounts to pay to clubs that have led to mega inflated player wages. But don’t you get to a point where you are just seeing inflation because the supply of great players is only limited yet funds available so enormous? How about every Premiership club agrees to a small levy (say 1%) of turnover to fund development of football at a grass roots level in England and Wales. How much could that help influence lots of kids to do something positive and healthy stuff?
As for Scotland. Well compare £12m? with £2.4bn! If we could develop our product / young talent we could earn more from tv and transfer income. But it’s a bit of a Catch 22. To do that where does the money come from? We certainly don’t have one obvious source south of the border.
bill1903 says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 07:42
No guarantee that Sevco would win that league unless Ally got his 10 million war chest.
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No guarantee that Sevco would win that league even if Ally got his 10 million war chest.
one, one, one two, two.
Taysider @ 13:01
This is the type of issue that is of greater import and has no team politics directly involved that could lead to a break up of a potentially unified POV.
It also highlights the Gravy Train (GT) and the benefactors of it who would rather the money stayed at the top end.
Scottish Football, what do we want ?
Sport dominated or Business dominated
To benefit the population or only those at the top of the tree ?
Even if you make the argument of spending vastly more at the top so as to maintain the level/competivity of Scottish Football, can you say it´s working ?
It´s time for real and radical change !
greenockjack says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 10:48
If you were to introduce wage caps for football players would you introduce them for other people as well.
Would it not be a breach of their human rights. Should they not be allowed to make as much money as an employer or sponsor is willing to pay them. The fact that their employer can’t actually afford the wage they offered is the employers fault, not the employees.
greenockjack says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 11:25
Allyjambo
Why does Scottish Football have to be a business ?
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As long as football remains professional, it will be a business. As long as it remains professional, money will have to be raised, even if that solely involves money paid at the gate, so it will be a business. It would be great if football could be run solely as a sport, but it would have to be amateur, and even then, somebody would be trying to make money out of it. Around every corner is a Charles Green, just waiting to fill his pockets… and empty yours 🙁
chipm0nk says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 13:30
All true, but, what you can do, is build in a cap on wages as a % of Turnover. Although there risks with that, most obvious is encouraging businesses to explore off the books incentives
Chip
I don´t have the legal framework behind the ideal finalised as yet.
I recognize that it is an ideal but I also recognize the need for radical change and put my tuppence worth forward.
Those with legal minds should perhaps offer different paths to get to a similar place.
Perhaps the regulations/laws need changed.
Allyjambo
If you read my post again I recognize the part business plays but feel it´s influence has grown and now dominates the Sport.
I´m saying that the balance needs to be redressed.
Ok hold the back page
“Douglas Fraser @BBCDouglasF 34s
BBC Scotland sports staff understand Charles Green has told the board of #Rangers FC he intends to stand down as chief executive”
According to Chris McLaughin on Twitter, Charles Green to step down as CEO of The Rangers..
It’ been nearly 2 years since the craig whyte takeover of the oldclub rangers,yet it’s still listed as a Subsidiary of MIHL,anyone know why?
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC192523#structure-tab
Also found this on my travels,says CG has been a director of sevco 5088 limited for 11 months.
Charles Green holds 10 current appointment, has resigned from 0 companies and held appointments at 2 dissolved companies. Charles began thier first appointment at the age of 58 and their longest current appointment spans 0 years and 11 months at SEVCO 5088 LIMITED.
The combined cash at bank value for all of Charles’s current businesses is £292,842, with a combined assets value of £443,323 and liabilities of £1,830,814. Roles associated with Charles Green within the recorded businesses include: Chief Executive , Director , None
http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/916889225
From the BBC ‘ 1355: Charles Green has indicated to the Rangers board he will leave his role as chief executive of the club. Green became chief executive after leading a consortium that purchased the assets of the liquidated Rangers Football Club Plc and is now the subject of an independent investigation – commissioned by the club’s board of directors – following allegations of covert dealings with the club’s former owner Craig Whyte. Green is the single biggest shareholder in the club, with just under 8% of the overall shareholding.
Charles Green to leave CEO post at The Rangers ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22220035
So who’ll be taking over from Green?
Latest from the Beeb:
Rangers: Charles Green ‘to depart’ chief executive role
By Chris McLaughlin and Alasdair Lamont BBC Scotland
Charles Green has indicated to the Rangers board he will leave his role as chief executive of the club.
Green became chief executive after leading a consortium that purchased the assets of the liquidated Rangers Football Club plc.
He is now to subject of an independent investigation, commissioned by the club’s board, following allegations of covert dealings with former Rangers owner Craig Whyte.
Green is Rangers’ biggest shareholder.
The Englishman has just under 8% of the overall shareholding.
More to follow.
Whoever signed off on the FAPP test at the SFA now needs to be sacked
The SFA has become a permanent embarrassment and occasional disgrace.
Danish Pastry says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 14:05
Quantcast
So who’ll be taking over from Green?
=================================
Surely that will be up to the MBB.
Duff and Duffer signed off on the FPP.Not the SFA.
Is this the same Charles Green who wasn’t leaving until he heard the Champions League music at Ibrox? I assume he has a new ringtone, and got a phone call.
Danish Pastry says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 14:05
Mr Longmuir of course, do keep up Pastry minor! (Joking btw, Mr Stockbridge?)
Danish Pastry
So who’ll be taking over from Green?
————————————-
Imran Ahmed’s mum? She’s got a warchest so I hear and access to more funds
With apologies to DIck Holler, songwriter extraordinaire
“Has anyone here seen my old friend Charlie?
Can you tell me where he’s gone?
He stiffed a lot of The People, but was pals with wee Chick Young
I just looked around and he was gone”
therampantbaron says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 14:07
Given that it’s pretty much a self-certified test, he just was.
Err, resigned.
Mud slinging springs to mind.
Step 1 Green goes
Step 2 cardigan jumps In and season book sales soar.
Step 3 Longmuir gets them to Div 1 just to make sure step 2 accomplished.
SFA and SFL happy on steps of hampden.
Sporting integrity takes a step bakwards
therampantbaron on Friday, April 19, 2013 at 14:18
4 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry
So who’ll be taking over from Green?
————————————-
Imran Ahmed’s mum? She’s got a warchest so I hear and access to more funds
——–
Or Craig Whyte’s faither?
RM are generally of the opinion that Mr Green has been “hounded out” by the MSM and timmy conspiracists.
Some of the bears are happy enough and have thoroughly recognised that if he’d just kept his mouth shut he wouldn’t have told any lies.
Others, to balance this out, are finding it impossible to identify anything he’s said which could be construed as a lie.
valentinesclown says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 14:28
Step 2 Cardigan jumps In and season book sales soar.
——
This is the obvious move, isn’t it?
So obvious that if it actually happened you’d have to wonder whether Mr Green’s departure and Waistcoat’s ascension at this point was part of the script.
So Mr Charles is offski. No surprise at either his departure or timing, after 10 days of bad news. However, I must admit that my initial feeling was one of anti climax. Is that it??
Then, after 5 minutes of sober reflection, I have conflicting emotions. There is no doubt I will enjoy the slow motion train crash commencing on the South Side, but, as a previous poster mentioned, it is a sad day when a 2nd RFC implosion is what it takes to stop the current madness engulfing our game.
I hope that the decent people in our game, and there are many, now take the opportunity to use the approaching close season to discuss and implement the changes required to rejuvenate the game in Scotland.
As an aside, I am looking forward to attending a game on Sunday to see my team win the league. Another sense of anti climax may spoil that, dependant on a result on Friday night. It is a scandal that the paying customer is treated in this way, in effect presented with a fait accomplit, to pander to TV. All matches relevant to a title decider should be played at the same time, preferably 3 o’clock on a Saturday. We pay to watch a competitive sport, not a WWF type franchise.
What, all 500 million of them?
This is all good fun, but shouldn’t market events like this be announced to AIM first? Has a rookie PR type screwed the pooch big time?
I wonder how long Ally will remain as Manager now ?
>>This is all good fun, but shouldn’t market events like this be announced to AIM first? Has a rookie PR type screwed the pooch big time?
I got my best crayons out for that press release.
Charles Green has indicated to the Rangers board he will leave his role as chief executive of the club.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
The Green Flash has merely "indicated" that he will "leave his role" as CEO of the club.nothing else.He has said this many times before,bla blah if the board votes-shareholders-fans etc I'll be down t'road blah blah.
Has he stated he is leaving..?
What I would want to know is..
When..
Why..
Will he still remain at RIFC in some capacity,& what role will he occupy when no longer the CEO of "the club" or holding co that owns the holdin foldin co.
Green now history.
Danish Pastry says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 14:30
Imran Ahmed’s mum? She’s got a warchest so I hear and access to more funds
——–
Or Craig Whyte’s faither?
———————————
DP, you’re saying Imran Ahmed’s mum has access to Craig Whyte’s faither?
FFS, is there no end to the liaisons dangereuses connected with all things Sevcovian?
At least they will have cut their outgoings by £360K per annum.
I wonder if Green is seeking a termination deal. I seem to recall from the prospectus that he was entitled to 12 months notice from the club. Another £360K in return for a non disclosure deal?
alex thomson @alextomo 1m
Craig Whyte says he is “not surprised” at C Green relinquishing his role.
Expand
manandboy says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 14:41
Green now history.
:………………………………………..
Does that mean he can now buy himself?:)
Re wages
There is no reason why football itself cannot decide on some form of wage capping, whether it is based on a percentage of club’s turnover, a fixed top amount per player, a total amount for the club to be split as they see fit, whatever.
I think it’s likely that would fail a challenge to the European Court, whether by a player, the players’ union or an individual club.
People are entitled to sell their services and to be paid for them. They are entitled to be opaid as much as someone is willing to give them.
Some people might not like that, but if it is the case for everyone else then it is the case for a football player. Personally I think it’s obscen what some of them earn, but the same can be said for singers, actors, musicians etc.
Green.
Maybe resignation rather than investigation?
Damage limitation.
Green is standing down?
Ok, he is going to remainas the major shareholder? Is he going to sell his shares, if so who in their right mind would buy them? Is is still going to haunt Ibrox and appear in the directors box at games? All very woolly and vague at this point and too much leg room for Sevco shennanigans and MSM confusion
manandboy says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 14:41
Green now history.
but do you think anyone’s gullible enough to “buy” it?
I take it Sir Watty of Dignityshire will now be wheeled out at CEO, to appease the hordes?
Brian McHugh (@pbmchugh) says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 14:45
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alex thomson @alextomo 1m
Craig Whyte says he is “not surprised” at C Green relinquishing his role.
Expand
Of course he isn’t surprised, it’s all part of the bonza wheeze that is planned down Govan way