Good Evening.
When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.
It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.
However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.
Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.
Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.
Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.
Job done so to speak.
Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.
Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.
Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.
No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.
Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.
In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.
As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.
Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.
Ever!
It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.
All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.
The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!
All to suit one man!
Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?
Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.
Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.
Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.
With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.
Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?
At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.
It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.
What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.
This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.
It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.
Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.
It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.
All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.
Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.
Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.
Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.
Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?
Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.
Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.
It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor! There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.
“It was screamed by Col. Nathan Jessop” – sorry
Good morning to all.
Having slept on it I wake up already feeling sorry for the new man.
He is really just going to have to take up the reigns exactly where Charles left off.
That basically means trying to find a way to get McCoist and his buddies out the door, both to drop the wage bill and improve the product on the park. Charles was correct that high wages (and no sell on value) for the likes of Kenny Miller and possibly Kris Boyd is not the way forward if you are burning a million a month. If that is the coaching staff’s game plan then they need to go. Big paydays for Cammy Bell and possibly John Daly need to be rethought.
Hard financial decisions are going to have to be made and one wonders what deals and hidden extras Charlie may have left behind with all his flights of fancy re hotels, cancer centres etc.
I said ages ago, possibly even on RTC, that the old guard really needs to go and I would even include Sir Walter of Cardigan in that. Ding Dong the Witch is dead but a brand spanking new broom is really what is required down Ibrox way.
The trouble for the new man will be whether or not the Bears stand up to the truth this time and knuckle down to some hard work.
The job is a poisioned chalice and it will not be easy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ9f2rnjB84
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 09:33
3 0 Rate This
June 2012
Acquisition of Rangers FC
Zeus Capital, the Manchester and London based corporate advisory firm have worked in conjunction with Charles Green to complete the £5.5 million acquisition of the business and assets of Rangers Football Club out of liquidation.
======================
I posted something on Zeus a few months ago.
Swift summary was very much a Z List finance house. Went through a members liquidation in 2009 ( I think) and reformed
Lots of evidence of bad investments, particularly in the property market, Small firm, with a tiny balance sheet
Their MO seems to be earning fees from clients for putting them into niche investments, not all of which work out well at all
Morning all
Nice morning here in the outskirts of Glasgow ,slight breeze with the trees and plants shifting easily in the morning sun that pops its head out from behind some light cloud occasionaly,Charles has replied to an earlier post about the world not being flat ,he would like to say ,in his way with words,”The world is round ,if the world was not round we would all fall off”oh and by the way I’m off,Charles you will be missed for all the wrong reasons.Goodbye
Excellent article on the woes of Scottish football by Mr Gibbon. Every great general is entitled to one bad day, Lee had his at Gettysburg, Fergus McCann had his when he agreed to the formation of the SPL
http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/sport/football/glenn-gibbons-risible-spl-reconstruction-saga-1-2903573
Barca
Good piece, but one correction. Mr Ahmed is a director of The Rangers Football Club, along with Mr Green and Mr Stockbridge. It will be interesting to see who replaces Mr Green.
There has been much talk of licences and other regulatory matters, I wonder who is fulfilling the key role of Club Secretary at Rangers?
Lord Wobbly says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 08:59
3 0 Rate This
Martin Bain … And he’ll be modelling a lovely tan, I’ll wager.
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M’Lud, are you suggesting a possible link up with Jimmy Calderwood? 😀
Thos bit is OT, so you might want to move on to the next post folks …
@cmontheshire
Yes, lots of fresh air and a motorbike. I often ride through those towns. Sad parallel you relate to, but true. Did you know that in Sweden the state controls the sale of alcohol through official shops? Drastic measures as you say. But how many Swedish kids have been spared seeing some of the things you (and I) have experienced. Suffice to say, I rather like the Swedish system.
On the football front the clubs should learn from proper sportsmen like Andy Murray and Sir Chris, among others. These guys don’t go on weekly benders or include regular alcohol consumption as part of their fitness regime. Those of is who never understood why our great Scotland teams of yesteryear underachieved just need to read about the pre-and after-match boozing of the past. What a waste. Ok, temperance speech over 🙂
Anyway, that photo of the England-top-wearing skinhead-type, pulling the ‘Green Out’ banner from a schoolboy and his pals, sums up a big part of what’s wrong. The last Gers match at Hampden too, not much advertising, but huge union jacks draped at intervals around the stadium. To me, they were there for reasons that have nothing to do with fitba. There’s a large political thing going on related to you know what. It’s grown hugely in my lifetime. For that reason alone, I often feel nothing other than total financial collapse and/or suspension from the game will solve that problem. Without a bi-weekly assembly point for the ‘quintessentially British’, some might wake up and remember that they are Scottish, after all 😉
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rantinrobin says:
Friday, April 19, 2013 at 23:13
30 0 Rate This
So ,who next for CEO at TRFC?
1. A Rangers-minded thinking person?
2. A Rangers -minded person ?
3. A person?
4. Someone from the SFA?
===================
5. Someone from the SFL
6. Imran Ahmed’s mum, she seems to have a credit line not open to most.
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 10:31
What is the problem with that, Danish? What are you suggesting be done about it?
Free speech, surely. You don’t have to like it to allow it or even support the right of others to express themselves.
A commitment to the principle of free speech is nothing if you seek to withdraw it when someone expresses something you don’t like.
Danish Pastry.
“The dog and I will attempt to push the crowd into three figures”
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Great Scott! Danish P, You know a dog cannot be counted when tallying the attendance at a game in Denmark. Look what happened the last club in Scotland that counted dogs in their attendance figures.
Night Terror says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 10:49
0 1 Rate This
A commitment to the principle of free speech is nothing if you seek to withdraw it when someone expresses something you don’t like.
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I’m expressing a personal opinion, not advocating the withdrawal of free speech 🙂 I did not like what appeared to be a skinhead pulling down a fair protest, by force. Personally, I do not like flags used at sports events for an overtly political purpose. Only a viewpoint, of course. I may be missing the point of all this Britishness, but it certainly wasn’t there in my youth. There can come a point when the people who attach their pet ideologies to a club become a bigger and more important voice than those who are there for the sporting side of things. If it was a club I supported I would find that a problem.
Night Terror says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 10:49
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 10:31
Anyway, that photo of the England-top-wearing skinhead-type, pulling the ‘Green Out’ banner from a schoolboy and his pals, sums up a big part of what’s wrong.
————————–
What is the problem with that, Danish? What are you suggesting be done about it?
Free speech, surely. You don’t have to like it to allow it or even support the right of others to express themselves.
A commitment to the principle of free speech is nothing if you seek to withdraw it when someone expresses something you don’t like
—————————-
NT – as I’m sure you know, your argument falls down because it attempts to say that intimidation is OK, because it comes under the heading of ‘free speech’. The thug was trying to curb someone else’s right to express their free speech in asking for Green to be ousted. Using intimidation and force to deny someone else’s right to free speech, as he did, means that he is not entitled to use ‘free speech’ as a justification, or a defence, for his actions.
You have the right to express your opinion here – that is free speech. There is a big difference.
Good Morning one and all.
As many have pointed out the sun is still in the sky, the waves at the coast keep rolling in and for those of us in Scotland the clouds still gather overhead and deposit copious amounts of rain upon our heads at any given time. How Apt
Charles Green was a) a front for Craig Whyte b) in Partnership with Craig Whyte c) In partnership with Zeus d) an agent of Zeus e) a front for Zeus or any combination of the above.
What he was not– and never was— was the main man!
Welcome to are you being Servco– a comedy with as fine a comedic performance as you have ever seen.
Charles delivered his lines beautifully and with perfect timing. Those long soliloquies with just enough bravado and outrageous pronouncement that would stick in the memory and which could then be easily recalled and thrown back at him and shown to be total balderdash.
Since The Rangers secured the 3rd division title he has upped his performance as the written script took a magnificent twist at just the right time complete with Craig Whyte re-entering the play complete with docs bearing Chuck’s signature and stamp.
Oh how he upped the ante with his comments about Ahmad, his blustering on the Dallas Cowboys and Manchester United in front of camera ( note Zeus’ claims re working with United ) and so on.
And now he is gone…….. vanished in a puff of smoke ……. to be replaced by a new leading man for the next chapter and set of scenes.
They really should rename the Oscars the Charlies because this season he has swept the board.
Best leading man.
Best Misleading man
Best supporting Actor and Best supporters Actor.
Best stuntman
Best body double
Best Singer of song.
Best Cartoon character.
Best Director ( of a company or companies including those that he has supposedly resigned from )
Best Scriptwriter
Best Smokescreen
and so it goes on and on.
He is Orson Welles, Richard Burton Harry Lime, The third Man and the Spiv who came in from the cold all in one.
But he was…. an Actor.
The statement produced from the Zeus web page above makes it quite clear that Zeus did not act ON BEHALF OF Charles Green but says categorically that they acted in conjunction WITH him to acquire Rangers Football Club.
Further, two directors of their company resigned from Zeus and joined the Rangers board– in essence they have been seconded to the Rangers board to look after the shop. They resigned from Zeus so that they are one step removed from the company who continues to assist with AIM Placings, buy outs, mergers, recoveries and of course disposals!
Of course, at one stage if I recall properly E.T.– sorry— Craig Whyte also said that he either employed Zeus or approached Zeus, and lo and behold now Craigy Baby returns complete with a whole brand new shiney PLC —which just happens to specialise in funding litigation— and he now claims that he really does still own all the assets after all no matter what anyone says!
Well shiver me timbers and call me Betsy!
Yip Green has gone but that old sun is till in the sky surrounded by rain clouds– and we still go out with a brolly and a hat because we know what is coming eventually.
Everyone– from Rangers fan to ardent Celtic fan, from the SFA to the FSA— has to recognise the truth here:
For years now Rangers Football Club has been controlled by the money men, the market movers and shakers, the faceless finance guys who have about as much interest in Rangers Football Club and Scottish Football as the do in marketing Zsa Zsa Gabor’s old socks!
David Murray lost control of his finances a long time ago and those at HBOS ( once they recognised that they too had lost the plot altogether ) and subsequently Lloyds could not have cared less who came in and gave them their money back or how they raised that money.
Whyte, Green, Zeus, Richard Hughes, Imran Ahmed, Brian Stockbridge are all about making MONEY— and then making MORE MONEY!
If that means another Administratio then so be it. If it means selling Ibrox so be it. It if means knocking Ibrox down and building a Tesco on half the land and creating a new 20,000 seater stadium– SO BE IT!
This is about financial return and nothing else.
Green has done his bit and it was time for him to go– by agreement.
Do you honestly believe Charlie Green and Zeus would allow a wild and rogue Craig Whyte to wander around with a couple of signed forms appointing Directors here and there wherever and whenever he wanted?
Who does that in the world of business?
The great God Zeus is lord of the sky, the rain god. His weapon is a thunderbolt which he hurls at those who displease him. He is married to Hera but, is famous for his many affairs. He is also known to punish those that lie or break oaths.He was the rain god, and the cloud gatherer, who wielded the terrible thunderbolt. His breastplate was the aegis, his bird the eagle, his tree the oak. He is represented as the god of justice and mercy, the protector of the weak, and the punisher of the wicked.
However at the end of the day he is the creation of Mythology– in other words a myth– no more than a good story!
Speaking of stories I see Mark Hately act all God like this morning and making a call for the heads of Doncaster and Regan. I wonder who that would leave as the most senior administrator in Scottish Football?
He then goes on to state that whoever takes over from the Donkey and Defective Inspector Regan should set about sorting Scottish football by restructuring the league and reinstating a Rangers side to the top league– as that will sort all the problems!
Meanwhile Roddy Forsyth pops up with the title of a new Star Trek movie– The Search for Bain—- suggesting that what Rangers — and presumably Scottish Football—- needs is the return of the old guard– as we would all be safe then!
Just to recap, Martin bain was the CEO at Rangers PLC for many years and oversaw the disastrous administration of the EBT scheme which is still under Judicial scrutiny. Bain was also at the helm for a large part of the time when Rangers mysteriously but deliberately failed to comply with the registration procedures of the SPL for fear of the EBT scheme being uncovered and causing a problem.
Whether this activity was willfully deliberate or just shockingly negligent is of no consequence as either way it shows a shocking lack of judgement. Remember too that Bain was the man who sued Rangers for his personal money, claimed that the company was insolvent because of the EBT scheme AND was shown to have asked that his contract and other documents be shredded for some reason or other!
And Roddy wants this guy back in Scottish Football???
There is another well known and public business that has recently gone bust unfortunately— it is called HMV.
Now if I recall correctly HMV stands for HIS MASTERS VOICE
Now why does that come to mind?
@Danish Pastry
Wishing financial collapse or suspension from the game seems like a rather severe punishment for celebrating their culture, Danish.
Would you suggest the same for Barcelona, or Celtic, or St Pauli, or blah blah you get the idea…
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 11:37
Erm, to be clear, the argument that you pretended I was making by cropping my quote to a misleading sample does indeed fall down.
If I was making that sort of argument, you would have just handed my arse to me.
Well done.
scapaflow14 says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 10:15
===========
I never said Ahmad wasn’t a Director at Rangers (the ltd co not RIFC plc). Whats relevant in my eyes is he was never a Director at Sevco 5088 nor a shareholder there either.
Green has gone because of Sevco 5088. He hasnt gone because he uttered a racist comment, the RIFC board have already publicly accepted his explanation for that. He hasn’t gone because of the Dallas Cowboys/ Man Utd/ £500 million valuation / dozens of other crackpot claims. They could have canned him long before now if that was the reason, although I understand these had Malcolm Murray reaching for his blood pressure medication (illustrative only) and his guillotine .
Green has gone because he is linked to Whyte. Whyte’s tape recorder on its own isn’t damaging enough to Green based on whats been released so far, as Green could claim selective editing to put a false complexion on the story . What did for Green was his signature in appointing Whyte and Earley as Directors of Sevco 5088
Green would have to have claimed forgery, which would have brought in the police, and which would have proved Green as a liar. Green being linked to Whyte brings questions for the plc board over the validity of the entire operation from asset purchase, through to football licenses , to the IPO itself . It doesn’t get any worse for the plc board than suggestions they have taken money for something they might not own ( even if they were themselves duped by Green)
Ahmad wasn’t daft or egotisitical enough to sign anything. He might be on tape, but unless Whyte releases much longer passages, which are much more incriminating then he will be harder to shift. The worst evidence is the use of his Mums bank account,and the texts confirming receipt of funds, and that may be enough to do for him. If its not , there isn’t anything else, unless Whyte produces a much more detailed tape than he has so far.
Should it be proven that Whyte has a legitimate claim to the assets, then the scenario truly is catastrophic for all involved. Should Whyte’s claim be upheld then my interpretation of the position is below
1 Money was raised in the public markets
2 That money was raised on a false and misleading premise
3 Individuals benefitted very significantly in financial terms, because of 1 and 2 above ( Thats potentially a Police matter , and a serious one)
4 Cenkos , who were the Nomad are in deep deep trouble. Here’s why
In respect of new issues on AIM the Nomad is effectively the ‘Project Manager’ for a floatation. They are charged with the responsibility of ensuring that the company and its directors are suitable for an AIM listing. This responsibility will include checks on directors and investigations into substantial shareholders i.e. those holding more that 10% of the shares.
The Nomad oversees the production of the AIM Admission document and is responsible for ensuring that the directors are aware of their responsibilities under the AIM Rules.
5 The Directors will at best have to resign, and at worst could be banned from acting in a similar capacity in a public company. There is no suggestion , certainly not from me anyway, that the Non Execs are anything other than innocent victims in this. However i doubt that will save their board positions if Whyte prevails
6 RIFC would be at immediate risk of having to cease trading. I believe Directors could be personally liable for investors money should it be used for cash flow working capital , and therefore irrecoverable once spent. This would only be the case should the Directors believe there was a risk that the IPO was illegal . That belief will become absolute, either way, once the independent report is received.
Remember with no SFA licence you have no business, with no business you have no opportunity to ask the public for investment.
The SFA can’t just ignore this in their usual fashion. A lot of money was raised and the SFA potentially could be sued by investors should they not have acted properly, or act properly from now on. From what I understand the SFA were fairly thorough in setting up a set of criteria that potential Investors could have confidence in. What we don’t know is whether their due diligence to prove Sevco Scotland did not breach any of the criteria was as thorough as it should have been
Should they not have asked any of the following questions then they may face serious problems
1 What was the process that took place to move Sevco 5088 out of their legally binding contract to buy the assets
2 What connection did Sevco Scotland have to Sevco 5088
3 Which individuals are referred to in the redacted document at Companies House where Charles Green signed on behalf of Sevco 5088 to disaply shareholder rights
4 Did the SFA see a non redacted version of this document. If not, why not
The above list is not exhaustive , but its a start
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 11:37
Shame on you, TW. That’s a terrible thing to say.
barcabhoy says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 11:48
Barca, you didn’t, and another good piece. In among all the understandable attention on RIFC, I still wonder why the three amigos and only the three amigos were appointed to the board of the only bit of the group that actually trades. Its an aspect that, for me at least, gets lost in the general noise.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 09:33
barcabhoy says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 10:04
—————————————————————————————————————————–
From the KdS archives on 17th June 2112:
http://www.insidermedia.com/productsandservices/archive/nwbi/2005-10/lunch/
Night Terror says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 10:49
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 10:31
Anyway, that photo of the England-top-wearing skinhead-type, pulling the ‘Green Out’ banner from a schoolboy and his pals, sums up a big part of what’s wrong. The last Gers match at Hampden too, not much advertising, but huge union jacks draped at intervals around the stadium. To me, they were there for reasons that have nothing to do with fitba. There’s a large political thing going on related to you know what. It’s grown hugely in my lifetime. For that reason alone, I often feel nothing other than total financial collapse and/or suspension from the game will solve that problem. Without a bi-weekly assembly point for the ‘quintessentially British’, some might wake up and remember that they are Scottish, after all 😉
———————————-
What is the problem with that, Danish? What are you suggesting be done about it?
Free speech, surely. You don’t have to like it to allow it or even support the right of others to express themselves.
A commitment to the principle of free speech is nothing if you seek to withdraw it when someone expresses something you don’t like.
———————————-
I quote you in full above NT. If you intended your comments to to only apply to part of what you said, then that wasn’t at all clear to me on reading it, and still isn’t. Otherwise, the comments I made about what you wrote at 11.37am still apply.
Flocculent Apoidea says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 09:11
——————–
Any legal impediment to Bain returning?
———————-
As any lawyer would say, “that depends”. Don’t forget Bain sued Rangers and won. So the question to be asked is “is the current Rangers the same as the old Rangers?”
Answer ‘yes’ and there is no chance of Bain returning.
Answer ‘no’ and I suppose in theory there is a small chance of that happening. But of course a ‘no’ carries far greater problems than just Bain’s return.
Meantime, the net tightens.
Whyte is drip feeding his media pals with juicy tidbits as and when required
BDO will be watching the latest turn of events with a keen eye (as should Police Scotland but let’s face it, the only police activity that has ever been generated with regard to the murky events at Ibrox has come from coppers south of the Border)
Despite Richard Wilson’s suggestion to the contrary in today’s Herald, Orlit has not gone away and will be upping the ante shortly given the perceived cash crisis at Ibrox
Deloitte will finish their enquiry and the board of RIFC will have to disclose its findings to the bears to keep them happy
So Sally must stay – the club can’t lose a CEO and its manager in quick succession; that is bad news in football terms for Rangers fans as it is clear to most that Sally may be a legend but he ain’t a football manager
Green is now outside the tent; whether he will be gagged or not remains to be seen but taking a step back for 10 months work he has trousered £300K in salary and holds paper worth £3M – how did that happen exactly?
All in all, a total mess.
And though Whyte continues to be seen as the bogeyman (and having a papal knight as legal adviser won’t help his credentials in the eyes of Rangers fans), I suspect when the music stops Whyte will end up whiter than either Green or Murray both of whom do not have their difficulties to seek. I hope both have good lawyers because they are going to need them.
One thing that is clear from the above is the sfa castratto do not have the ability to grow a pair nor the resonance to effect real meaningful change.
Are they so hamstrung through the strategic positioning of rfc(in liquidation) personnel who acted as ‘protectors’ of said club over many years by turning a blind eye whilst affording them the further benefits of the three disgraces of ‘faith, hope and charity’.
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 12:13
0 0 Rate This
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 09:33
barcabhoy says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 10:04
—————————————————————————————————————————–
From the KdS archives on 17th June 2112:
http://www.insidermedia.com/productsandservices/archive/
nwbi/2005-10/lunch/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Have you been listening to Rush recently? 😉
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 10:31
An interesting point Danish,and clearly one that has provoked a reaction.Recently,and perhaps surprisingly given that it was a rugby player,John Beattie was critical of the singing of the national anthem at Rugby internationals. John suggested that the waving of national flags and pumping of chests brought an unsavoury aspect to the game and detracted from the sporting spectacle.
I remember as a youth making the trek to Wembley 1979 only to see the team drubbed 3-1.I was talking to an Englishman before the game who asked me why the Scots took this game so seriously.I suggested ,as a student of Scottish history that it was much to do with years of oppression ,and exploitation by our English cousins,and our conversation was convivial and genial.
When the teams came on the park,certainly after several refreshments from the excellent bars at Wembley,I stood up and shouted ‘Cmon Scotland get into these English bastards!’
I am now 54 and I still remember that moment and the look of disdain on my genial English fellow fan.
I am not proud on reflection.
I should add that for me ,as a Scotsman,one of the great feelings is watching Scotland beat England at football.It is and always will be.
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 12:35
You do indeed quote my words in full, DP, but you don’t include the full quote to which I was responding. A quote of your words.
I was responding to that full paragraph of yours, not just the first sentence that you then based your further argument on, and which totally misrepresented my point.
Sorry if that wasn’t clear. I hope it is now.
The wit and ‘wisdom’ of the man who bought the history…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22231324
Night Terror says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 13:26
————————————-
OK, then I understand that you weren’t trying to condone the person taking down the banner from the Rangers fans as being allowable as free speech, and we can agree on that. With reference to ideologies taking precedence over football matters in football clubs, and how those are expressed, which I now take as your intended point, I think it depends on what the message is intended to convey. I would agree that people should be able to express their allegiances openly, unless, again, those are intended to intimidate or have some kind of ‘dog whistle’ resonance with darker philosophies. Identification with a British or Scottish identity I don’t mind in itself, but in general, as DP said, I much prefer my football to be about what happens on the field. Although I’m quite partial to following the boardroom stuff these days too.
BBC reporting Craig Mather favourite for CEO – very Interesting if true
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/tag/craig-mather/
damn meant to add this link as well
http://www.ssm.uk.com/
Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug 5m
#Rangers board meeting now. BBC Scotland has learned Craig
Mather is the favourite to become new CEO. #BBCSport
TW (sorry for mixing you up with DP) – Agreed. I’m not a fan of clubs that somehow seek to connect themselves with a wider political or cultural movement – indeed my own club changed their name to avoid being drawn into such an area. It seems to me this can be a way of both drawing a larger and more committed fanbase, creating a wider with us or against us attitude, and providing justification for behaviours that might seem unjustifiable in support of what is just a club for a bunch of men playing football.
However, indulging in this stuff is entirely up to individual clubs and supporters, and I respect their right to get behind stuff that I have no time for and I don’t like it when others seek to limit such expression in others.
In particular, I get annoyed when criticism of clubs is shrouded in “there should be no place for that in football” when what is actually meant is “I don’t agree with the point being expressed”.
Faaar too subtle for me, LW.
Did some just say fox in charge of the chicken coop?
If RIFC are short of cash (and that seems to be a very strong rumour from various sources) it surely means that the institutional investors share subscriptions haven’t been paid for in full but that some kind of IOU was received. To have burnt £22M in four months would be quite and achievement for any football club. Maybe even some sort of world record or something
First post. Keep up the good work everyone; your contributions are very much appreciated by me, a long term lurker,(donation forthcoming) and make this blog informative, educational and entertaining. It is my first stop in trying to keep up with this addictive debacle.
My questions are : If it is proven that Green fraudulently obtained the assets of Rangers/Sevco, do those assets belong to Whyte? If the answer is yes (and those assets do belong to Whyte), what then happens, if it is proven that Whyte did indeed dupe Murray (I know!) in buying Rangers. Could that sale ( Murray to Whyte) be declared void thus meaning Murray still owns the assets? Is such a scenario feasible?
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 14:18
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Faaar too subtle for me, LW.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TallBoy Poppy (@TallBoyPoppy) says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 12:13
From the KdS archives on 17th June 2112:
What year is it?
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_magom4IYAE1r6hh61o1_1280.jpg
Perhaps if you were Tallboy Rocky….
Its been a while since I studied the Decline and Fall of the Eastern Empire, but the latest twist in the Rangers saga has all the hallmarks of a Byzantine palace intrigue.
Why make a big deal in the statement to the Exchange about engaging in a proper recruitment process, if a few hours later you’re going to announce an insider candidate has got the job?
Did one faction write the statement, only for another faction with the money and the shareholding to come along and say “Not bloody likely, Mr Murray, we are having our man, thank you very much”?
Craig Mather / Simply Sport were linked to this farrago before.
Does anyone remember the details.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11781/7909449/New-investor-at-Rangers
Rangers have a new investor in the form of businessman Craig Mather.
Mather is the managing director of Simply Sport Management as well as running his own manufacturing business.
And he hopes to use his contacts to help the Ibrox club rebuild as they prepare for life in the fourth tier of Scottish football.
A new investor statement from Mather on the club’s official website read: “I am delighted to have invested in The Rangers Football Club with my business partner Guy Gisborne.
“In addition to the financial investment, my sports management business, Simply Sport Management, specialises in youth players.
“I am confident that my colleagues and contacts within this field will prove invaluable.
“The facilities within the youth academy and training centre at Murray Park are world class and we must continually improve to ensure that the players coming through are of the same standard.
“I look forward to being part of the team rebuilding this fantastic club.”
Ah, I see now, LW.
I’m a TimeLord!!!
donald findlay QC was on bbcsportsound
– says he wants to see the new CEO at sevco being a man who knows
“what the club is all about”
[ i wonder what he means by that statement]
Perhaps it would be more helpful if the new CEO did not know ‘what the club was all about’,or preferably did not care.
jimlarkin says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:01
donald findlay QC was on bbcsportsound
======================
The man who was thrown out of Rangers for being too overtly bigoted.
Yes, he really knew what the club was all about. I assume he considers the new one to be about the same things.
Article about Mather’s involvement in Rangers, including audio interview.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18893159
From July 2012.
chipm0nk says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 14:56
… “I am delighted to have invested in The Rangers Football Club with my business partner Guy Gisborne.
——
Excellent. Another comedy name. Guy of Gisborne himself, straight from Sherwood Forest. It’s like “Once Upon A Time” on the telly.
Green and Whyte – if you’d written this whole thing as a work of fiction you’d have been laughed out of town for using those names.
Who’s next? Rumpelstiltskin with his personal assistant, Truly Scrumptious?
Craig Mather was one of the original consortium with 900K shares (of the initial 22M) which was increased to 1.8M shares or 5.39% of TRFC Ltd. prior to the IPO.
His shareholding was diluted following the IPO and his 1.8M shares now equates to 2.77%.
If Mr Mather is appointed, then I bet the new board of TRFC will be Mr Mather, Mr Ahmed and Mr Stockbridge plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
easyJambo says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:23
Craig Mather was one of the original consortium with 900K shares (of the initial 22M) which was increased to 1.8M shares or 5.39% of TRFC Ltd. prior to the IPO.
His shareholding was diluted following the IPO and his 1.8M shares now equates to 2.77%.
________________________________________
No doubt someone who moves in similar circles to Whyte and Green and ‘introduced’ to the club by one of them, or both! A football agent, no less! Pretty close to being a spiv then and unlikely to break the mold. Clearly, Mr Findlay has got his wish, too; this man is steeped in what The Rangers are all about! He’s been around since day one 😉
jimlarkin says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:01
donald findlay QC was on bbcsportsound
==========================================
A couple of Findlay’s comments were laughable. Firstly that when he was at Rangers all business was conducted privately, which is easy when the club owner has the entire media in his pocket. Secondly, Findlay had the audacity to complain about how cash was distributed and the lack of competition that caused. I guess almost unlimited credit for Rangers from the Bank of Scotland did not have an impact on competition at all then?
scapaflow14 says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:37
If Mr Mather is appointed, then I bet the new board of TRFC will be Mr Mather, Mr Ahmed and Mr Stockbridge plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
—————————————————————————————————–
I was never sure after the initial announcement whether Mather’s business partner followed through on a share purchase in his own name and I also wondered whether the shares might actually be held by the company they run which seems to make cardboard boxes from memory.
But Mather also runs his sports agency as well and was made Director at Murray Park although I never saw a detailed explanation of his role. I, probably wrongly, assumed he would be spotting young talent coming through and selling it on with or without some development.
I’m not sure he would have the time to run Rangers but who knows – I have heard no reports of his activities at Murray Park but noted some Darkside mutterings from time to time pondering what he is meant to be doing.
I think he may have met-up with Green through their shared love of the gee-gees which can be a very expensive interest.
I have been lazy and keep meaning to ask Companies House what the current state of the shareholding is at TRFCL now that the share-swap has taken place last December. There must be at least 1 x £1 share in existance and with Green gone who is going to hold it? The last share change notification took TRFCL about 6 months to notify which was well late.
Mather has his own business to run and that is a full time job. Diverting his attention from that to take take the wheel at Titanic 2 would not make sense.
Gordon McKie makes more sense, ruthless businessman, ex-senior Murray acolyte
therampantbaron says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 16:16
Gordon McKie’s appointment would also herald some interesting possibilities
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/former-sru-chief-mckie-leaves-hong-kong-post-but-not-for-rangers.17618839
Scapa
Oh god, p
Please not Brian Kennedy! We can’t put up with any more of him. He made the blue knights seem decisive….
jimlarkin says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 15:01
donald findlay QC was on bbcsportsound
– says he wants to see the new CEO at sevco being a man who knows “what the club is all about”
[ i wonder what he means by that statement]
——————————————————————————————————————
Perhaps he means that the new CEO should have musical expertise as well as footballing 🙂
Looks like Peterheid are doing well at Ibrox.
I wonder if the referee knows what refereeing’s all about. Surely a last minute penalty is in the Rules?
A bear talks about Ally McCoist:
“lets give him another season and see what he can do with his 10 million as well – we need that desparately if we are going to challenge in div 2.”
——
£10 million thought to be required to be competitive in Division 2.
Learn? Never!
Kenny Macintyre @bbckennymac 7m
#BBCSportsound Extra 5.30-discussing #Rangers.Questions please for former Director Paul Murray-discussing #CharlesGreen’s exit-0500 92 95 00
angus1983 says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 16:46
0 0 Rate This
Looks like Peterheid are doing well at Ibrox.
I wonder if the referee knows what refereeing’s all about. Surely a last minute penalty is in the Rules?
=================================================
penalty or sevco opponent not “needed” since the SFL 3rd “division” is in the bag.
does anybody have stats for sevco penalty kicks this season and opponents sent off?
well dne jim mcinally
jimlarkin says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 16:57
absolutely – it appears the refs eased off on the red cards, disallowed goals and penalties after the title was in the bag
carntyne says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 16:29
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paulmac2 says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 03:50
Eh?…What reputation?
Pamplona?
Barcelona?
Seville?
Manchester?
………………………………………………………
You appear to be confused!….SEVCO have never been in any of the
above cities let alone played a football game their…
=======================================================================
Not confused at all.
What reputation do you think the statement refers to?
The new club’s or the old?
My opinion is the old as they’re still harping on about the 140
years history.
Perhaps you mean Sevco are confused.
Reputation my ****.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sir…sir…TSFM sir! He said “****” sir!
_____________________________________________
[Sorted! – TSFM]
Lord Wobbly says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 17:00
Sir…sir…TSFM sir! He said “arse” sir!
Tell Tale Tit
Yer Mammy canny Knit !
Aw naw I said Tit
Lord Wobbly says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 17:00
Worse than that, M’Lud, it would appear his arse has got a reputation! Or at least he is demanding one for his arse 😉
Surely even the Rangers fans weren’t gullible enough to believe the £10m nonsense.
Mr Green clearly knew he was going to be away well before he would be required to give the manager any money, that gave him right up to January 2014.
on bbc sportsextra
[that phud] graham spiers, says that “everybody” has missed the 4 old-firm games this season.
erm…don’t think so graham – i for one, have NOT.
and you better get used to the fact that there will never be an “old-firm” game ever again
why – rangers no longer exist – they went bust.!
on another note –
[ jim spence today aske the administrator at dunfermline fc
is it important for dunfermline fc to avoid LIQUIDATION ?
i thought liquidation didn’t matter?]
Stewart Gilmour was given a rousing standing ovation at St.Mirren park today
just sayin’
I’ve been going on about the importance of club licensing to prevent what happened to Rangers and the impact of their fate on the game online since June 2011.
It was therefore heartening to hear Stuart Cosgrove raise the issue with Paul Murray on BBC Sportsound.
The issue for me though is not that processes do not exist, they have done for years, although strengthened by UEFA FFP for SPL clubs in more recent times, but there has been a failure by the SFA to apply the processes. That Rangers benefitted from this over the short term and Celtic, who had adopted FFP principles in 2004 (why is Brian Quinn so prominent in UEFA FFP matters? Because he was a FFP pioneer) lost out from 2009 to 2011 and the SFA had a few Rangers men in a position to influence led to the suspicion that failure to ensure compliance was just to favour Ramgers.
But what if few clubs could have been granted a licence? Does that also explain the SFA’s reluctance to apply.
I believe FFP standards need further enhanced to reflect the Scottish football environment and that clubs who do not comply need a couple of seasons to do so.
I would then clarify the difference between a licence and membership which allowed a gap through which a club with a questionnable business case was given membership to make membership of the SFA conditional upon any club seeking it having been granted a licence first.
I would also put the licensing process under the control of the leagues in terms of doing it and recommending granting one to the SFA to approve.
Clubs would watch each other like hawks and shout foul if they thought one was taking place.
This we prevent any possibility of a recurrence of the last 13 years.
If you are reading Stuart keep pushing the FFP issue and if you see further merit in my suggestions- fill yer boots.
mirrenman says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 18:50
Stewart Gilmour was given a rousing standing ovation at St.Mirren park today
just sayin’
=============================
Clearly the support agree with him that the restructuring was not in the best interests of St Mirren.
Or possibly they are happy to have won the CIS Cup for the first time ever.
Maybe both.
It’s nice to see a group of supporters who have a board who they are in agreement with.
Where does all this leave Sandaza..?
Just heard from a cast iron source within The SPL that there WILL be a Glasgow Derby next season!
Thistle v Celtic?
C’mon Readcelt, give the others a chance to ask for my source first!!!
madbhoy24941 says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 21:57
Never mind the bloody source, spill!!!
TRFC have a serious problem now.
If they appoint a former RFC man, it will be obvious to even the most ardent bears fan that the appointment has been made just to generate season tickets.
They therefore need a serious businessperson, but anyone who falls into that category will immediately see that a complete overhaul of the finances are required and that most of the share flotation money has already been squandered on players who are far too good for SFL3 and a manager who has made those players look like SLF3 is about right for them.
So who would want this job?? Lots of names are being put forward, but would anyone really be interested in this role?
I see two possibilities from the logic above, and a third based on me being cynical:
1. He/she will be someone who has to wield the axe in a way that D&P should have and will be despised, but will do it because it will be a labour of love.
2. He/she will be someone who has to wield the axe in a way that D&P should have and will be despised, but will do it because he’s there to make money and the wishes of the support/the Cardigan’d NED/Ally the manager be damned.
and finally:
3. The next CEO could be a placeman, Someone who is there to further CG’s interests,
Green knew he had to go ages ago. He hung around, forcing the board to instigate an “examination” that they now don’t need to complete and now has just walked?? Turkey’s don’t vote for Christmas just because they’ve had time to think about it. This turkey used the time to get his ducks in a row.
Either the next CEO will face a board that is stacked in Green’s favour, or the new CEO will be Green’s puppet.
ptd1978 says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 22:02
Very surprising and refreshing to see ‘He/She’. Any runners?
ptd1978 says:
Saturday, April 20, 2013 at 22:02
Mrs Ahmad?