Good Evening.
When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.
It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.
However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.
Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.
Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.
Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.
Job done so to speak.
Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.
Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.
Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.
No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.
Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.
In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.
As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.
Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.
Ever!
It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.
All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.
The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!
All to suit one man!
Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?
Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.
Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.
Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.
With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.
Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?
At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.
It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.
What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.
This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.
It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.
Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.
It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.
All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.
Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.
Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.
Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.
Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?
Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.
Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.
It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor! There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.
It’s all in a chest with ‘War’ written on it.
The utterly discredited R Wilson in the herald with another alternative universe article;
“At least two high net-worth Rangers fans are closely monitoring events, and one would be prepared to move immediately if he felt it was in the best interests of the club. The share price has been steadily falling and may not yet have found its true value, but there is also cash remaining following last year’s launch on the Alternative Investment Market. However, some fans have grown concerned at stories of significant monthly losses”…LOL
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/in-the-blue-corner-battle-for-heart-of-rangers-is-rejoined.20889509
y4rmy says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 09:16
Rumours abound in Sevco cyberspace that the Scottish Sportswriter of the year has information that none of the IPO money is left in the bank.
It’s all in a chest with ‘War’ written on it.
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Maybe the chest should have “Whaur?” written on it instead
The CE says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 09:25
The utterly discredited R Wilson in the herald with another alternative universe article;
“At least two high net-worth Rangers fans are closely monitoring events, and one would be prepared to move immediately if he felt it was in the best interests of the club.
——————————————-
Maybe RW thinks that these rich chaps just didn’t follow the news last year when for lack of funds, the Rangers people weren’t able to save their club from the clutches of the more ‘colourful’ characters we’ve seen since then.
RANGERS manager Ally McCoist was today told that boardroom unrest at the Ibrox club will NOT scupper bids to strengthen his squad.-Evening Times. This statement isn’t from the club but from none other than ex player Kevin Drinkell another fully paid up member of the hands over the ears nananananana club.
The CE says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 09:25
___________________________________________________________________________
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 09:31
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why doesn’t he just say “B***n K*****y and G****e S*****s” and be done with it?
One thing is for certain.Given the events now unfolding,this situation is now more than a headache for the governing bodies who preside over the game.The position that TRFC now find themselves in is now beyond toxic.
The establishment has made every effort, thus far, to protect TRFC ,for the sake of Scottish football.Such a mistake..As events unfold the SFA will have to distance themselves from a club who has brought shame ,by their designs,on a host of victims.firstly the creditors and now the shareholders.
It is unacceptable that this has been allowed to happen and the SFA will ,in due course,have to speak out.No amount of stalling can avoid the salient issue,namely the question of their right to continue in the Scottish leagues.
Can this club be allowed to retain a licence which should,as many have said,rightly,should never have been granted in the first place?
Things can only get worse.As the pending meltdown develops, the SFA may have no alternative but to withdraw the TRFC licence.It is at their discretion and they may be forced to act,sooner rather than later.
upthehoops says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 07:00
22 0 Rate This
Rumours abound in Sevco cyberspace that the Scottish Sportswriter of the year has information that none of the IPO money is left in the bank. Only rumours of course, but the administrators of the site in question have chosen to lock the thread to avoid further debate on the topic.
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my theory on this is simple
once the IPO cash was in – the 1st people to get paid were those who had had originally invested – plus interest.
the deal has been structured that this was a loan and that loan has been repaid with interest – so everyone is now in the clear.
Once that has been tidied up – CW re-appears wanting “his” assets back
RIFC will be delisted and enter admin/liquidation
TRFC Ltd will be sold as a going concern – step forward blue knights etc
Whyte will sell Ibrox/Murray park to someone – and will take a slice – maybe he’ll give it to ticketus to rent out so they can recover their losses
TRFC will not be punished by the SFA and will continue on their way – but there can be no second floatation to raise cash, they will have to cut their cloth – which I don’t think is possible unless there are huge cuts throughout the whole operation – players, use of MP and Ibrox, staff will have to be cut etc. It will not be pretty!
Various legal cases will drag on for a few years, but nothing significant – the “bears” will have a club playing football at ibrox, ticketus will recover their money via renting MP/Ibrox, green & co already got their investment plus interest back and whyte has probably had a couple of dips at the trough with the original scam putting RFC into admin and then the selling of the assets later
really, only BDO can stop it by reversing the asset sales to Sevco 5088 as this is clear phoenixing if Whyte is involved – WILL THEY DO IT?
Kevin Drinkell! A bona fide NCFC legend. I see he’s an agent now. Obviously that wouldn’t influence his opinion on the subject in any way at all.
RIFC plcs recent insistence of Sevco 5088 being a subsidiary is surely linked to the SFA licensing requirements.
From what I understand the AIM seem to be pretty lack with regard to regulation and following things up.
However the SFA are under pressure from fans who want to see that the rules are being applied without fear or favour.
If the license is reviewed annually then The Rangers need to demonstrate they are in ownerhsip or have an agreed lease in their stadium.
(Hearts and Dunfermline might be on a similar sticky wicket)
By arguing Sevco 5088 is their company, as was Sevco Soctland and The Rangers Football Club Ltd, they have all bases covered. The fact that there may be a legal challenege will be irrelevant to the SFA because as we know from the player registration fiasco they don’t do retrospective revocations.
Therefore the RIFC board will be hoping that by the time it gets sorted out (years and years of legal wrangling) they are back in the top division and at worst will get a wrist slap and a small fine from the authorities.
All done with dignity, you understand!!
War, whaur, whore – delete as appropriate
As for Wilson’s article, usual nonsense. Despite the share drop, the value of the RIFC shares is still circa £45M plus whatever cash is in the bank.
The club was there for the buying at a knockdown price, by genuine fans last year; they blinked and the spivs mopped up.
Until the club is reformed and starts at a new ground, it will never succeed. That is what Celtic did over 100 years ago when faced with a rapacious landlord.
It is what Rangers and Dunfermline have to do, if they want to emerge without the uncertainty of who owns the ground or the millstone of an onerous lease around their necks.
It would only take a couple of years of the gates to the stadium being locked at most before the landlord saw sense and agreed to sell.
These continuing efforts to pump life into a skeletal corpse are doomed to failure, at least while half a dozen or more leeches suck what remains out of it; give birth to a new child, call it New Rangers, and nurture it – that is the only solution.
Courtesy of Jockybhoy on the LSE site.
Some background info from Private Eye.Apologies if posted before:
From the Christmas edition of Private Eye
“PLANET FOOTBALL Rangers
Football clubs are rarely stellar investments, whatever their success on the pitch. But some lucky Rangers shareholders are guaranteed to make money. These are the prescient investors in the new Rangers FC that acquired the old bankrupt club earlier this year from its administrators. Between July and August, some paid just 1P a share for shares in Rangers FC, which were swapped for shares in the listed company ahead of the flotation.
Just over 19M shares were issued at 1P and another 2M at 50P (including 1M issued in October), compared with around 12M shares issued at a riskier 99P or 100P.
So who were the lucky investors? They seem to include mainly the inside group around Charles Green, who led the takeover, and his backers, including three mysterious offshore entities who held more than 23 percent of the club immediately before the flotation: Blue Pitch Holdings((4M shares), Margarita Funds Holding Trust (2.6M) and Norne Anstalt (1.2M) .
Only with the last of these is it known where the entity is registered (Vaduz, Lichtenstein). But the prospectus is completely silent on the beneficial owners.
There is a lock-in of at least 6 months for some investors and 12 months for Green and other directors. But the shares would have to perform very, very badly for those who paid 1P not to have a big result.”
Prescient investors? Shurely not
carlislecelt says:
Monday, April 22, 2013 at 19:22
16 17 i
Rate Down
Just a message for CE and his ilk if you want equal distribution of monies including TV revenues etc then lets have the clubs televised on an equal footing i.e. not Celtic every week. Lets see how much money comes in and then distribute it. Is that okay? Otherwise?
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Sounds terribly like the new WATP – C(eltic)ATP?
I understand that Celtic supporters are putting their money into their club and want to win everything but consider this – what would the league be like should Craig Mather prove to be as inept as Green, Whyte and Murray and Rangers encounter another insolvency event, maybe even really, really terminal this time? I guess there would still be enough people who’d want a Rangers to re-start but the time it would take that club to properly compete with Celtic would be extended beyond the current 5-10 years. I don’t see any other club being in a position to fill the vacuum in the short to medium term.
Already this season we’ve seen a drop in Celtic attendances with season book holders picking and choosing the games they attend. In part this may be due to the good run in Europe and the associated costs of attending those matches. It is also likely that people are not going because they know that it’s a shoo-in for the league. Celtic supporters may want 5, 10 in a row but how boring would that be and would they keep going in such numbers if it was too easy? There’s always a danger that the diddy teams fans wake up and ask themselves why they keep going if their team never has a chance of winning – and are being patronised by people like carlislecelt to boot.
This is certainly not a call for a quick re-admission of Rangers to the SPL because they are lucky to still be in any league and the duopoly was just about as bad as as what’s coming over the next few years – I don’t anticipate that cup wins will be widely distributed either.
So Scottish Football Monitors it’s time to consider what’s best for the game in Scotland, will provide a competitive league, provide opportunities for those excellent young players we saw in the cup semis to develop and grow within the Scottish leagues and become part of teams that win more than once a season in Europe and an international team that gets past stage one having qualified for the finals of an international tournament.
neepheid says:
Monday, April 22, 2013 at 21:06
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/3807-rangers-statement
Apologies if already posted-
“Rangers International Football Club plc (“Rangers”) has instructed the law firm Pinsent Masons, supported by forensic investigators from Deloitte, to investigate the connections between Craig Whyte and former and current personnel of Rangers and its subsidiaries.”
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If the Masons are investigating, the story will be buried…
carlislecelt says:
Monday, April 22, 2013 at 19:22
16 17 i
Rate Down
Just a message for CE and his ilk if you want equal distribution of monies including TV revenues etc then lets have the clubs televised on an equal footing i.e. not Celtic every week. Lets see how much money comes in and then distribute it. Is that okay? Otherwise?
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Celtic being on the telly every other week is actually damaging to most other SPL clubs.
the TV deal was simple – every Celtic and Rangers away game on telly – as they have the biggest audiences.
they didn’t show celtic/rangers home games as most folk would be AT the games
so, they show the away games to get the biggest tv audience.
this means a lot of fans who might choose to go to away games, have the option of staying at home to watch on telly.
This reduces the number of away fans at a game.
Now, Celtic might still take a big travelling support, but I bet you can’t remember the last time the away end was completely full this season?
Also, a lot of home fans don’t like it when the “Old Firm” clubs descended on their towns and they would avoid those games – which, conveniently, were on telly!
So, lets not get carried away. Celtics only concern is that they don’t get every home game shown on telly – which would wipe out season ticket sales as folk would pick and chose the games they went to.
carntyne says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 10:16
1 1 Rate This
neepheid says:
Monday, April 22, 2013 at 21:06
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/3807-rangers-statement
Apologies if already posted-
“Rangers International Football Club plc (“Rangers”) has instructed the law firm Pinsent Masons, supported by forensic investigators from Deloitte, to investigate the connections between Craig Whyte and former and current personnel of Rangers and its subsidiaries.”
==============================================================
http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_KZ/kz/services/enterprise-risk-services/forensicanddispute/forensicinvestigations/
If, after only a few days work, Deloitte have called in the lawyers, you just have to know this is not going to end well.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 10:36
Celtic being on the telly every other week is actually damaging to most other SPL clubs.
the TV deal was simple – every Celtic and Rangers away game on telly – as they have the biggest audiences.
they didn’t show celtic/rangers home games as most folk would be AT the games
so, they show the away games to get the biggest tv audience.
this means a lot of fans who might choose to go to away games, have the option of staying at home to watch on telly.
This reduces the number of away fans at a game.
Now, Celtic might still take a big travelling support, but I bet you can’t remember the last time the away end was completely full this season?
Also, a lot of home fans don’t like it when the “Old Firm” clubs descended on their towns and they would avoid those games – which, conveniently, were on telly!
So, lets not get carried away. Celtics only concern is that they don’t get every home game shown on telly – which would wipe out season ticket sales as folk would pick and chose the games they went to.
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Completely agree with the above, and would add that Celtic’s away games are normally scheduled for around noon/1pm, which further hits both the home and away support likely to attend.
Thank you NTHM,
Reason and sense as usual.
I fully agree with you regarding the risk of too many live home games for CFC. That’s why I support the moves to repeal 11-1 on all issues apart from this one and Gate Revenue, as any change on these two key areas would be grossly unfair to our larger clubs and our one superclub.
Blu,
There is a twist on your ‘filling the void’ theory with which I fully concur btw.
Celtic (or a healthy sevco for that matter) have learned their lesson as seen in the transfer market from 2006 onwards. Their goal since this time was not to be champions of Europe despite what the DR would have you believe. Instead it was to be just, only just, better than their closest rival. Whether Celtic fans like it or not (as I’m ruling out the possibility of a healthy sevco for a while) the result of their dominance will be a decline in their budgets and hence ‘quality’ as the boardroom will do only what needs to be done, no more in my opinion. To be clear that is a good thing, there is no point celtic blowing the bank on a cosmetic win when a win and access to the CL will suffice. That is where the domestic competition will have a chance. I’m ok with that as long as the competitor does it with a sustainable business model with a modicum of ‘going for it’ thrown in, not a complete flier a la Brooks Mileson. And obviously if it goes nads up for them I equally expect them to face up to the consequences, not hide behind a pretendy liquidation.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 10:36
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I’m not sure where you get your information regarding Celtic away games from but, with the exception of Rugby Park, it has been almost impossible to get a ticket for an away game this season.
I don’t particularly enjoy these games because of some of the numpty plastic paddy songs that are sung by the GB but my son is interested in going to away grounds to see what they are like and enjoy a new experience. I am happy to accommodate him and at the same time put some money into the coffers of other clubs.
Other than Motherwell (£14 last year thanks to sit on a bit of concrete where a seat used to have its home), Tannadice and Rugby Park, I have tried in vain to get tickets for the other grounds – Easter Road & Pittodrie in particular – but without success, yet large tracts of those grounds remain stubbornly empty, seemingly at the behest of the cops.
It is time all of the clubs in Scotland were allowed (a) to increase the capacity for visiting supporters, so that if the home support have not taken up their allocation by say 1 week before the game, more tickets can be allocate to visiting supporters and (b) to have cash gates for home and away supporters on the day. That is surely not beyond the wit of man?
Dundee United have just released a statement which is a sad indictment on the way that money and agents are having an adverse impact on the game.
http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/index.asp?tm=2&nid=4500&cd=2013
And well done to DUFC for making the information public.
Squad size is an equally important area , which needs to be protected by 11-1
We have debated this before, however Celtics business model is absolutely dependent on finding , developing and selling on young players. We need to do this at the same time as having a squad capable of representing the club and the country respectably in Europe
Why other clubs should be able to veto the squad size we deem necessary to fulfil our business plan has never been explained to me.
The ticking time bomb that even Whyte is ignoring is
Asbestos
Before long someone from HSE will be asking who owns Ibrox and why they have failed to action the repairs detailed in the asbestos report
These guys will not be put off if asbestos identified during a burst pipe incident in Dec 2010 has still not been addressed over 2 yrs later
Could there be a link between the recent departure of the Facilities Mgr and the delay in initiating these repairs?
Indeed could the discovery of asbestos have helped persuade SDM to drop his asking price from £6m to £1?
If Rfc* go into administration would it be the 1st time or the 2nd time ?
If Dunfermline were given a 15pt reduction and a transfer embargo by the SFL
then thats the least Rfc* could expect but that would expose them as a new club.
If Dundee were given a 25 pt reduction for a 2nd administration by the SFL then
the standard has been set and of course a transfer embargo should also be applied
as otherwise that would make the Dunfermline punishment seem overtly harsh.
If Duff and Phelps arent available for administration purposes I presume a more normal
procedure would commence.
This should mean bye bye to all the high earners like Templeton Black Sheils etc etc
considering they like Sandaza are only there for the money I doubt they would take
a pay cut
Will administrators be content with the £1m+ costs of Ally and his management team ?
Will they stay for the average SFL 2 wages which I imagine would be around £50k (total)?
So ,next season could see Rfc* start with no big players ,no management ,a transfer embargo
and a 25 pt penalty .Will the fans continue to shell out for season tickets if they are unsure
that the money won’t go straight to Craig/Charlie/Zeus/Ticketus
Before all the IPO money has run out can I suggest Rfc* invest in a really strong radar
And the SFA not wishing to be outdone decides to issue a note of complaint on Dunfermline for going into Administration. Now the SFL have already docked the club 15 points, so what additional sanctions do the SFA envisage? It is not as if Dunfermline have been hiding away their financial problems from the authorities in the way that RFC did from 2011 onwards.
Of 19 home games for United this season in the SPL, 7 have been KO at 3pm on a Saturday. Unusually bad this season due to late admission of Dundee but most due to TV. All part of the price for Sky’s largesse.
I did some sums on the attendances of both Celtic and Rangers visits to Pittodrie a few seasons back and discovered between stupid KO times to suit TV, lack of competitiveness and the family stand being empty as parents didnt like taking their kids to these games the actually home attendance figures were barely higher (sometimes lower) than any other league game. Usually the difference in attendance was the larger away support (around 3,800).
TV has been hugely detrimental to the game in Scotland especially Celtic and Rangers away games being shown continually each week with silly KO times.
Yes we probably should have a TV deal – but surely we dont have to sell all of our soul to the devil?
Last night we had a meaningless bottom 6 tie played and broadcast on at the same time with full ticket pricing as Manchester United were tieing up the EPL – sheer madness.
To top it off the one TV thing we need – a Match of the day equivalent on at a time when kids can see it is completely missing! As a family we cannot sit and watch a good quality SPL highlights package as there isnt one – what there is happened to be dire and is on too late. My boys know more EPL teams and players than SPL ones.
Im not sure if its changed yet but someone spotted the Rangers vs Peterhead highlights online had missed out a Peterhead goal. Sportscene is a travesty of a programme – most games get about 60 seconds and no discussion – the BBC has also let down Scottish football – see Tony McKelvies tweets over the last week.
The SPL has been a shambolic mess since the start – it still is. These guys and their proposals to save the game are not the answer – they are the problem. It has become obvious they dont understand fans, business or marketing. Goodness knows how they became successful in their own respective fields.
Barca,
Squad limits are in place throughout Europe. In fact LaLiga’s quite strict limit of 25 over 18’s(inclusive with 3- non EU players) does not seem to be hampering Real and Barca’s ability to compete at home and abroad. Personally I would like to see a 23 man limit in the SPL with u-21 players not having to be registered.
UEFA competitions are also subject to a stringent squad limit so I see no reason who the SPL should not follow suit.
As EPFL(EuropeanProffesionalLeagues) have indicated, ‘A commitment to a squad limit of 25 is consistent with squad make-up in top European Leagues. Accordingly to a study conducted by the “Professional Football Players Observatory” for the EPFL, the average number of players fielded by club during a season corresponds to 23,7 players. Squad size limits are in place in Portugal, Spain, England (Premier League), Italy (Serie B), Norway, Poland and Switzerland, and its advantages are also associated with financial stability and are regarded as an important pillar of the UEFA Financial Fair Play concept.’
When Rangers in 2012 went bust, the company assets were liquidated and sold.
June 2012 – They were bought, but had no form since the newco had no permission to be ‘a club’.
July 2012 – Permission came from being recognised by the SFA as an association football club – via licence, registration, etc.
…
Value of assets without permission = about £5.5m? (if asset sale agreement is a reasonable figure agreed by those nice Duff and Phelps chaps. [stop laughing at the back])
Value of ‘club’ (assets and permission) = ???
– market cap method … at height of share price 96p/share … c.£60m.
– Imran Ahmad boast … “£50m on a bad day.”
– market cap method … at current-ish share price c.58p/share … c.£38.5m.
– market cap method … at 50p a share … £32.5m.
– any lower?
…
So, whilst an assessment of the value of the club is open to interpretation, its clear that the permissions provided by the SFA are worth quite a bit of money. For illustrative perspective purposes, 38000 STs may have brought some £8-9m in.
With this added value aspect of licencing in mind, I wonder if unscrupulous persons might be looking towards ‘repeating the trick”. The ‘blueprint’ (no pun intended) would be :
– admin at end of season,
– liquidation close season,
– asset sale for about £5m-ish,
– licence provided (at the last minute?) adding value,
– restart of club and repeat of season 2012/13,
– collect the usual c.£9m from STs,
– float on AIM … raising £15-20m,
– after christmas 2013, things go a bit pear-shaped for one reason or another and its back to the first step.
…
The Titan of Scottish football is having its liver pecked out by an octopus rather than an eagle, but Zeus just the same.
The SFA provide them with a new liver.
Repeat the following ‘day’.
…
What to do??
Someone somewhere faces an Herculean task.
goosygoosy says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 11:05
The ticking time bomb that even Whyte is ignoring is
Asbestos
Before long someone from HSE will be asking who owns Ibrox and why they have failed to action the repairs detailed in the asbestos report
These guys will not be put off if asbestos identified during a burst pipe incident in Dec 2010 has still not been addressed over 2 yrs later
Could there be a link between the recent departure of the Facilities Mgr and the delay in initiating these repairs?
Indeed could the discovery of asbestos have helped persuade SDM to drop his asking price from £6m to £1?
——————————————————————————————————————————
I did think there was a connection regarding the asbestos position and the odd termination of the facilities manager who presumably asked for some of the floatation funds to deal with the issue. Any funds used this way could NOT be utilised to influence the fan base so the answer was in the negative.
Easyjambo says….
Isnt it nice of the compliance officer to remind us of all these consequences and trigger points, very timely!
Some are quite interesting especially around issues of e.g. having a ground, or not meeting licencing requirements, or even the attendance of the appropraite representative ( which i assume rules out anyone who has been ruled as not fit and proper, even retrospectively!)
Fit and proper persons?,
Something of an oxymoron at Ibrox these days ?
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 09:47
2
my theory on this is simple
once the IPO cash was in – the 1st people to get paid were those who had had originally invested – plus interest.
the deal has been structured that this was a loan and that loan has been repaid with interest – so everyone is now in the clear.
Once that has been tidied up – CW re-appears wanting “his” assets back
RIFC will be delisted and enter admin/liquidation
TRFC Ltd will be sold as a going concern – step forward blue knights etc
Whyte will sell Ibrox/Murray park to someone – and will take a slice – maybe he’ll give it to ticketus to rent out so they can recover their losses
TRFC will not be punished by the SFA and will continue on their way – but there can be no second floatation to raise cash, they will have to cut their cloth – which I don’t think is possible unless there are huge cuts throughout the whole operation – players, use of MP and Ibrox, staff will have to be cut etc. It will not be pretty!
Various legal cases will drag on for a few years, but nothing significant – the “bears” will have a club playing football at ibrox, ticketus will recover their money via renting MP/Ibrox, green & co already got their investment plus interest back and whyte has probably had a couple of dips at the trough with the original scam putting RFC into admin and then the selling of the assets later
really, only BDO can stop it by reversing the asset sales to Sevco 5088 as this is clear phoenixing if Whyte is involved – WILL THEY DO IT?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I would go along with your theory up to a point. As regards the loans I doubt these were repaid from IPO funds because the loans were probably converted to shares in RIFC, hence the apparent lack of cash.
As regards Sevco5088 being a subsidiary of two AIM listed companies I think that is possible.
If we assume the company was set up with three shares and Whyte, Green and Earley owned one each but Green “swamped” Whyte and Earley’s shareholding by creating say a million “A” Ordinary shares of £0.0001 and removing the “pre emption rights” he could then buy them up so that Whyte and Early were effectively diluted to almost zero, then the company could be owned largely by RIFC but Whyte and Early and subsequently Worthingtons would still be shareholders.
Tom English is hosting an online debate on TRFC after Charles Green at the moment.
(started at noon)
http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/webchats
The CE says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 11:36
8 0 Rate This
Barca,
Squad limits are in place throughout Europe. …
UEFA competitions are also subject to a stringent squad limit so I see no reason who the SPL should not follow suit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
… and closer to home the SFL have squad limits.
therampantbaron says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 10:56
———————————————
I’m not sure where you get your information regarding Celtic away games from but, with the exception of Rugby Park, it has been almost impossible to get a ticket for an away game this season.
——
Ditto – not sure where you got your info from. The last Saints v Celtic game was so undersold that Saints actually had the gates to the away end open to pay at the gate, and the ground was still not nearly full. This has been the pattern for Celtic (and Rangers games) for a good 5-6 years.
The TV factor is indeed killing attendances. Since January 1 Saints have had TWO (i might be 3, but i think its 2) 3pm Saturday kickoffs. Games have included a Friday night in Inverness and on the weekend a Sunday evening kickoff against Ross County, which both clubs protested about, but were told to play at that time.
Its almost like the SPL fixture planners are trying to create an Armageddon.
Has anyone asked D&P who they sold the assets to….and why it was anyone other than Sevco 5088?
I have just been on chat with Tom English,re licence issue.His response .
‘ I would advise caution before you start getting a bulge in your trousers over their licence being revoked. Remember the near orgasmic anticipation among some Celtic fans about title stripping. Don’t second-guess things is my advice’
Oh well severe rebuke from Tom.We shall see.
The CE says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 09:25
The utterly discredited R Wilson in the herald with another alternative universe article;
……………………………………
Who would have thought the self confessed Rangers fan (club now deceased) would have a Hans Christian Anderson touch to his stories?
rantinrobin says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 12:29
I have just been on chat with Tom English,re licence issue.His response .
“I would advise caution before you start getting a bulge in your trousers over their licence being revoked. Remember the near orgasmic anticipation among some Celtic fans about title stripping. Don’t second-guess things is my advice’
Oh well severe rebuke from Tom.We shall see.
……………………………
I would have to agree with Tom in the respect that nobody realised the SCOTTISH FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION would act in a thoroughly corrupt and dishonest fashion….ignore their own rules…make up rules…and avoid applying rules to facilitate one club…
The current situation is no different to previous shameful behaviour in so much as the SCOTTISH FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION will provide the same corrupt approach in order to avoid the obvious…
Charles Green said they were corrupt and he was never challenged…charged or corrected by the SFA…one must assume they agreed with him.
Does anyone have any information on the meeting of the First Division clubs at Hamilton yesterday?
If TRFC are in violation of their terms and conditions of license (e.g. links with TGEF) and the SFA do not take any action – would it not be reasonable for another club – who may have been eligible to play in SFL3, who did not get the opportunity as a result of all of the places having been occupied to (a) seek damages from TRFC and or (b) the SFA?
concallen says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 12:38
0 0 Rate This
Does anyone have any information on the meeting of the First Division clubs at Hamilton yesterday?
—————–
phil mac had a wee tweet last night saying – nothing of note was discussed
Been away.Couple of points;
-Reconstruction;this is an attempt to “sex up” the product to entice potential sponsors.The split proposals are farcical and the 2 discenters should be congratulated.I have no affiliation to either team.
-TV is ruining the game in Scotland.It should be ditched as soon as possible.No live games,sat 3pm kick offs,highlights package sat night or sun morn,attendances will rise considerably.
-Lack of competition;or the ‘perceived’lack of competition.Their is little competition in any league across Europe;if you attempt to predict the winners of the top 10 leagues in Europe for next season I suspect you will correctly predict at least 7.
Celtic are between a rock and a hard place.They want more competition.If supporters outwith Celtic want competition then its up to these supporters to get behind their team,increase attendances,give their clubs a chance.Celtic are currently,in footballing terms,not that far ahead.There is no other way,there is no magic wand.They need to stop looking to Celtic for answers,a club I have no affiliation to.
stevensanph says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 12:26
——————————————-
I didn’t think the last game at St Mirren Park would be a sell out but I was told by the ticket office at Celtic Park that they had no tickets
When I phoned St Mirren Park on the Wednesday, I was told there were no tickets available for away supporters and “under no circumstances” would there be a cash gate on the day.
And we wonder why Scottish football crowds are dropping?
Another ditty from Tom English chat
Tom,do you not agree that this situation with Rangers has gone way beyond the absurd and the club is now in a toxic wasteland of its own making?
Answer from TE:
Yes. Entirely of its own making. They brought in these people and they have reaped the whirlwind. it’s still possible to feel sympathy for the support, though. They don’t deserve this shit
——————————————————————————————————————–
At least he agrees with me on this sentiment,but I would add none of us deserve this shit.It affects the entire Scottish fanbase
Further to timtim’s excellent point at 11:07 above, I’d say any administration will be finely timed to suit football purposes. As the general newco/oldco rule with the game’s administrators is “whatever best suits you gentlemen”, it will be treated as a first event, and hence 15 points. They are currently 24 points ahead of the pack with two games remaining. Thus, better to get it over with before the official end of this season. A -15 point start to the Div 2 season, with all the better paid players away, could be a bit of an ask for newconewco.
I will personally contribute a tenner to their fighting fund if the Daily Record will rerun the interview with Black where he gloats about Sevco paying him wages, and Hearts having previous for not doing so.
All of this would be superseded if the level of toxicity vis a vis fixed asset ownership and bank account details meant the board were advised to man the lifeboats. An orderly liquidation may very well suit, given the said regulatory bodies’ track record in doing as they’re damn well told.
A “source close to famoussong” has pointed out that he bet the farm on Queens Park for SFL3, with savers on Peterhead, Elgin and Montrose. He may very well be talking out of his pocket.
Different Saints rampantbaron, Steven is a Saintee, not a ‘real’ Saint. 😉
Yes, we regularly sell out our away allocation when CFC are town, but as a large number of home fans decide to give this fixture game a wide berth(for the reasons NTHM outlined), we also regularly have higher attendances against other teams, with Killie being our best attended home fixture this season. In fact 6 out of the gang of eleven have their highest attendance for a fixture other than Celtic.
Some discussions on Pinsent Masons on a Hearts message board today in that one poster understands that the RIFC investigations are being carried out by ex McGrigors people in Edinburgh and states that “They’ve a couple of fraud/bribery/corporate criminal specialists there”. (McGrigors were merged into Pinsent Masons in 2012).
Are Green and Whyte just a sideshow to deflect attention ….after all how many “white collar offenders” ever see the inside of a prison cell or a courtroom.
Octupus who seem to have their tentacles all over this mess would seem to be the real architects..but who are the ultimate beneficiaries?
Down here, those sort of loopholes are covered so that a meaningful penalty is always imposed. For example, see here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8014811.stm
And there are many other examples. It’s at the FA’s discretion to apply the 10 point deduction at the most appropriate time.
I don’t believe the SFL have specific rules in place, so it would be up to them to make sure that any penalty applied was a genuine punishment. So if you trust the authorities to do the rational thing (no laughing at the back) then TRFC cannot choose a convenient time to go into Admin.
Incidentally, another ruse tried by virtually every club that gets into these sorts of mess is to claim that it is not the club but the holding company that has gone into Admin therefore no deduction should be applied. That argument has been dismissed out of hand each time and the penalty applied, but up there in Scotland… 🙂
I hear people talk about another stitch-up, another fudge regarding Sevco999.
In my opinion the train is out of control and anyone who thinks that there is some master-plan waiting in the wings are as deluded as C Green.
The implications are enormous. The SFA are in deep s..t the potential claims for loss of revenues due to their reticence in applying the rules,will do for the SFA. Apart from Spartans what about every club in the 3rd Division who were compelled to play a club who were admitted to their division even though, we now find out, were ineligible because of C Whyte’s connection with that club. What were/are the insurance implications of this fiasco.
The five way agreement must contain info regarding Whyte’s connection with Sevco999 and yet they went ahead and granted a conditional licence.
Let me see if I’ve got this straight: three different trophy winners in 2012, at least two in 2013, and either four or five different winners over the two years combined and Celtic have ruined Scottish football in Rangers’ absence? Armageddon has already happened?
The more cynical parts of Celtic’s support have long suspected that the board wants competition from a strong Rangers and has, at times, kept Celtic’s spending artificially low to facilitate that competition. If Rangers can’t be competitive then Scottish football will create other challengers to fill the vacuum. The difference would be, like the 80s, that it’s not a permanent duopoly.
Really, contrary to the assertion that a two-horse race is preferable to a one-horse race DUOPOLY is the biggest danger a league can face. If there’s two outsize clubs you need them BOTH to have bad seasons for anyone else to have a chance at the league. They’ll either have to be drawn together or BOTH slip up in the cups. When there’s only ONE the odds improve that some other club will have a chance to sustain a run at the league title or knock them off in the cup and open that competition to an outsider or dark horse.
Yes, you can have situations like France with Lyon or Norway with Rosenborg (or Scotland’s two 9-in-a-rows) but the reality is that both those leagues are actually more OPEN than most of Europe. Since the end of Rosenborg’s THIRTEEN IN A ROW, which didn’t kill Norwegian football btw, there have been 5 different champions in the last 8 years with Rosenborg and Molde the only repeat titles. Four more clubs have been runners up! In France, Lyon’s seven straight championships has returned to the historic norm there and four different champions in four seasons including a club that had NEVER won the title. Sometimes, long title streaks are actually a CONSEQUENCE of an open league with unpredictable and unstable power relations. If ONE club can get a leg up on its rivals and they spend time trading places BELOW that there can be the perception of a monopoly.
But really, look to Germany. Yes, Bayern are the one true unassailable giant of their league; they will challenge for the title almost every season and, if they use their resources well and someone else doesn’t have a great year, most likely win. But in the last decade they’ve only won half the championships and there have been four other clubs who won the league. And that’s without Schalke 04 managing to end a 50 year title wait but finishing second regularly! Or giant clubs like ‘Gladbach and Hamburg only managing to finish third on occasion. The FEAR is the emergence of Dortmund will lead to a dangerous DUOPOLY and deform the competitiveness that has existed amongst challengers to Bayern.
Again, duopoly is always the bigger threat. Look at what has happened in Spain as Madrid and Barcelona have pulled away from the rest. Neither club can stand to lose to the other and that competition prevents them from risking a more equitable sharing of income with other challengers. Or Portugal where there’ve only been ever been FIVE different champions ever and this historic “big three” is condensing into a “big two”: Sporting have only broken up the emerging Porto/Benfica duopoly twice in the last three decades (along with Boavista’s complete historic outlier). Braga have been great in Europe but only managed to finish runner’s up once!
Scots need to be less insular or at least look to their own history: a weak Rangers leads to a more open league! The current weakness has already opened up the cups and seen the first all-Edinburgh Scottish Cup final in a century! The last time Rangers were weak saw the emergence of multiple other challengers for the Scottish league title even though Celtic still won the most titles in that era. It’s the very time period most posters on here harken to as the heyday of Scottish football! The idea of even imagining a world like that is too hard for an entire generation of administrators, journalists, and even some fans so there’s the idea that it can’t happen again in Ranger’s absence. The administrators and (most) journalists want a quick return to the old duopolistic status quo while some fans of other clubs want to hobble Celtic more than they want to see their own club seize the opportunity the vacancy at the top of Scottish football provides and rise UP to challenge.
I don’t normally like doing predictions but I just can’t imagine a world where a weak Rangers doesn’t eventually lead to at least two, if not three, other clubs rising to the point where they can at least make the title race interesting. It won’t happen overnight and I’ll grant that no one is likely to ever catch Celtic and challenge season after season but there’s just too many Scots who feel no affinity for Celtic (or Glasgow) for them not to gravitate to some other club. Died-(and-died-and-died-and-died-again)-in-the-wool Rangers supporters won’t ever move to another club but the absence of Rangers from the top gives all the other potential challengers to Celtic a once in a generation, hopefully premanent(!), opportunity to capture the NEXT generation of fans who would have been lost to Rangers. Do it well enough and they’ll start winning titles in years where Celtic slips up. Hibs and Aberdeen, with there new stadiums, seem well positioned and only need to put a good team on the field that can create the belief that they’ll sustain a challenge to bring the fans in. Hearts clearly have the latent support but are a financial basketcase and might miss the chance. Maybe one of the other clubs can achieve what United did in the ’80s (and it’s not like the Arabs aren’t a well run club). It might take 6 or 7 years to sort itself out but that’s the future of Scottish football; apparently that’s not fast enough for some.
Forget fights over prize money or the paltry amounts that Scottish football can generate from TV; your population is just too small to ever compete in that realm. Scotland loves its football and supports it better than just about an other country in the world per capita: TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITY A WEAK RANGERS PROVIDES.
(And can we start talking about Charlotte18 again? That might be the biggest story ever – nuclear even – and a week or so after questions started being asked ole Craigy resurfaced and started chucking bombs out the window. He really couldn’t have had better timing if he wanted to distract folks from the real villains. I might enjoy laughing at the Rangers omnishambles but the Rangers OMNISCANDALS, ones that might go to the heart of what went wrong with Scottish football around the turn of the millennium, shouldn’t be forgotten. If the GEB really has been a man hired to play the villain he’s doing someone else’s bidding and doing it well.)
NixonWW
‘Octupus who seem to have their tentacles all over this mess would seem to be the real architects..but who are the ultimate beneficiaries?’
////////////////////////////
It is reported they once had a magnificent castle on the Island of Rhodes.
goosygoosy says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 11:05
Before long someone from HSE will be asking who owns Ibrox and why they have failed to action the repairs detailed in the asbestos report
These guys will not be put off if asbestos identified during a burst pipe incident in Dec 2010 has still not been addressed over 2 yrs later
——
Don’t bet on it, goosy. Unless there is an immediate hazard to health, in particular fans in attendance at the ground, the HSE will display infinite patience.
Their requirements in the meantime will be to make any areas of exposed asbestos safe. Mostly by putting up signs. In common with other agencies, staffing levels are so low nowadays that there just isn’t time to chase these things unless they present clear and present danger. Everything else is “firefighting” incidents that come in on a daily basis.
Persons who girn about the size of the public sector, take note. If you want a smaller public sector, you have to put up with reduced service levels and increased response times.
easyJambo says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 12:15
4 0 i
Rate This
Tom English is hosting an online debate on TRFC after Charles Green at the moment.
(started at noon)
http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/webchats
==========================
Thought TE came over as abeing a it thin-skinned on that. Wrong side of the bed this morning?
So have Pinsent Masons been retained to investigate what happened around Green and Whyte, or have they been asked to make sure that RIFC hold on to the real estate under the guise of looking into what happened.
If the latter, they could end up with a serious conflicted between the actual purpose of the investigation and its stated purpose.
canuckbhoy says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 13:41
===============================================
Thumbs up from me for a well-researched and thought out contribution. And Optimisim. However, it doesn’t give full recognition to the even greater difference in wealth now between Celtic and all the others which will continue to grow as Celtic have free access to CL monies.
The substitutes called on by Celtic against Dundee United in the Cup semi was a straightforward illustration of the current wealth-gap. Compared to the last period of challenge from non-Glasgow clubs (both were weakened in the 80s when Aberdeen and Dundee United did well) the likely challengers are burdened now by either debt, financial insecurity, prudence or lack of fanbase.
I sincerely hope that your optimism trumps my more pessimistic outlook.
Senior says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 13:37
Agreed Senior.Auldheid has covered the bases on the insurance issue in relation to other clubs should the transfer of licence be deemed a travesty.The line peddled by MSM,notably Tom English is that the SFA will await the outcome of the TRFC independent commission but there is no indication as to the length of time this will take.
As Scottish football fans we all have a right to know what has transpired at TRFC.and in that respect the SFA should be acting on this now,not at some future date.
Will they adopt the view that they do not wish to prejudice the TRFC commission? What have the SFA to fear from acting?
That is the question.
http://t.co/MpqnmiAerB
Oooooft ya….
23 Apr 2013 10:53:28
3rd Div clubs led by Peterhead are about to go to court to block rangers promotion and get them thrown out the league. They will object on grounds that RFC have broken SFL’s rules on transparency of ownership and CW still being involved with RFC. A new vote will be proposed that allows RFC back into the SFL Div 3 only when all matters are cleared up – source SFL
Make of this what you will!
Del Hyslop @DelBhoyHyslop 4m
@LWordsmith @tommyinglasgow @Pmacgiollabhain
This is a cracker if its true!
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=12186102&t=8804754 …
‘ I would advise caution before you start getting a bulge in your trousers over their licence being revoked. Remember the near orgasmic anticipation among some Celtic fans about title stripping. Don’t second-guess things is my advice’
—————–
As a supposed journalist. How about discussing what should happen if the rules were applied rather then just shrugging and hiding behind the realpolitik?
Refusing to publicly discuss the problems of how Sevco are being dealt with by the authorities with is tantamount to supporting those flawed decisions. Especially when its your job to provide comment and analysis on these matters.
Its not “just the way the world works”. If TE truly believes that it is, he must see his job as being a floating propaganda merchant rather than being journalist.
Just heard the same rumour as paulsatim. To paraphrase K. Keegan, I would absolutely love it, if it were true. Scottish fitba being what it is, it will all come to nothing.
Just came across this:
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/28877.aspx?SearchType=Advance&ReferenceNumbers=S4M-06287&ResultsPerPage=10
monsieurbunny says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 13:48
Tend to agree.
While Tom is to be applauded for doing these debates and they are interesting the reality is that it shows us even the best journo’s are no better informed or no better at predicting outcomes than the rest of us.
The jury is still out on whether or not any proactive investigative journalism is taking place.
If questions are being asked of the various authorities there seems to be little reporting that they are
a) on the case
or
b) apparently uninterested.(i.e still no input of the latest Rangers saga from Longmuir, Regan or Ogilvie)
The sports journo game seems to be a bit like playing poker I suppose. They are sitting picking up crap hands day after day like most people round the table. They throw in the odd chip now and again to see who is still awake, while waiting on getting dealt that one good hand and hoping they can play it well.
Let’s get this right. These minnows clearly don’t understand the very special Scottish rulebook- only “Rangers” can seek redress through the Scottish courts. For all the other clubs, FIFA say that you can’t take football matters to your national courts, but must go to the CAS in Lausanne. I think Mr Lunny needs to be informed, and disciplinary action instigated. What’s the world coming to?
Another set of Legals to investigate Whyte & Green & the takeover etc.
And they are going to do what?
They will do what others have done before them.
They will do what their clients (RIFC) have instructed them to do.
And when they have compiled their report,
this will be studied by the Board
and then converted into PR speak for media use.
Then the legals get paid.
And may be hired again.
And the bad guys?
‘What bad guys ?
It was all just a misunderstanding.
It’s sorted now.
And the SFA could not have been more helpful.
They even came up with a couple of new rules to smooth things out.
We sent up a case of Scotch each just as a wee ‘thank you’.’
Re.rumour above. I called Peterhead and was told by the lady I spoke to that she knows nothing about it,I asked if there was any statement due from the club regarding any issue and she said not as far as she knew.
Inconclusive.
(keeping fingers crossed.)
Celtic announce £100 reduction on ST prices for season,with under 13s ticket £50.
Tic 6709 says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 14:23
I have to say I think it is more than likely this one is a lot of tosh.
After all where they not all the boys from Govan’s newest bestest friends.??
New press release from Celtic – season book tickets will be £100 cheaper.
Signs of worry, a bribe or a genuine reward to ‘fans’?
Never look a gift horse in the mouth…but I would suspect the answer lies between all of those.
Full Celtic Statement:
SPL champions thank fans with £100 season book reward
By: Newsroom Staff on 23 Apr, 2013 12:50
AFTER a magnificent season of success at home and abroad, Celtic announced today that it is to make a sincere thank you to supporters for their wonderful commitment, by giving a one-off reward of £100 off the cost of a standard adult season book for next season.
The overwhelming success of the club’s 125th anniversary season means that the club is in a position to make this significant one-off gesture.
The club will also be introducing a range of fresh new season book prices for kids and a new family layout within the stadium:
* U-13 years – £50: Just £2.38 per match
* 13-16 years – £105: Just £5 per match
* 17-18 years – £186: Just £8.86 per match
* Purchasing one adult and two child (U13) season tickets means all three can attend a 2013/14 match at Celtic Park for the equivalent total of £22.19 per game.
Current Season Ticket Holders can renew their Season Tickets for the 2013/14 season exclusively online from tomorrow morning, Wednesday, April 24 at 9.30pm HERE
Celtic Chief Executive Peter Lawwell said: “Celtic has enjoyed a wonderful title-winning 125th birthday season and I congratulate Neil and the players for all they have done.”
“We have now won back to back SPL titles, secured a Scottish Cup final place and have put Scottish football back on the map at the highest level, as one of the top 16 clubs in European football”.
“Such a run of success has led to a very positive year off the field for the club and we wanted to make sure that our fans share in this success.”
“The backing of our fans has, as ever, been crucial. Domestically and in Europe they have once again been right with us and we felt it important that we rewarded their commitment by making this gesture.”
“As we saw from Sunday’s match, there is also a huge appetite from the next generation of supporters to be part of Celtic and that is why we have also made a strong commitment to younger fans and families.”
“Our foundations are strong, we have real stability and we look ahead to a bright future for the club with absolute confidence.
“We will be aiming for three SPL titles in a row and we will endeavour to make an impact on the UEFA Champions League, a place where we have enjoyed some fantastic nights this season”.
“All of our fans have played their part in our season and I would also like to take this opportunity to thank our supporters’ groups for their commitment to the club.
“Joe O’rourke and John Andrews at the CSA, Alan Horne and Anne McElhinney at the Affiliation and indeed other supporters have all assisted the club directly with our plans for next season.
“I thank them for all their hard work on behalf of the club.”
Celtic manager Neil Lennon, who addressed the Celtic support on Sunday after clinching his second SPL title added: “Once again this season our fans have been absolutely magnificent, coming in huge numbers and giving us the drive we need to keep on winning.
“Sunday was a great example of this as it was a day which celebrated the hard work and commitment of players, staff and fans together.”
“We fully appreciate the contribution our fans make to our success and it is great that we are able to thank our supporters in this way through their season tickets.”
“This has been a special year, celebrating our 125th anniversary, enjoying such a great Champions League journey and now lifting the SPL title.
“We are now fully focussed on trying to secure a league and cup double for our fans.”
“As we look ahead to next season, we will need our fans behind us again – it will be the aim of myself and my players to repay our supporters as we always try to do – by bringing good, entertaining, winning football and of course even more silverware to Celtic Park.”
Clearly Celtic has made a tremendous impression on Europe this year and we will be aiming to do the same next season.
As we saw last year there was huge demand for the UEFA Champions League experience at Celtic Park and the only way fans can guarantee access to these matches is by having a season ticket.
During the course of this season, Celtic has also taken the opportunity to carry out an extensive survey of its supporters in order to ensure that we continue to respond to our fans’ needs.
Thousands of fans took part in our season book holder survey and the club is acting on our supporters’ feedback.
This means that in addition to our season ticket rewards, we are delighted to announce a range of additional new features for our supporters at Celtic Park next season.
These improvements will include:
* A new matchday experience and entertainment
* Improved family stand area
* Brand new disabled supporters´ facility and viewing area.
* Upgraded hospitality suites
Celtic Football Club is delighted once again to be SPL Champions. We sincerely thank our fans for all they have done for the club and we are delighted to reward them in this way.
We look forward to welcoming our supporters back to Celtic Park next season as we unfurl the Scottish Premier League flag.
For all season book info, click HERE
neepheid says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 14:15
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Let’s get this right. These minnows clearly don’t understand the very special Scottish rulebook- only “Rangers” can seek redress through the Scottish courts. For all the other clubs, FIFA say that you can’t take football matters to your national courts, but must go to the CAS in Lausanne. I think Mr Lunny needs to be informed, and disciplinary action instigated. What’s the world coming to?
Aggreed Neep, ban Neil Lennon for 3 matches just in case!!
easyJambo says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 13:12
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Some discussions on Pinsent Masons on a Hearts message board today in that one poster understands that the RIFC investigations are being carried out by ex McGrigors people in Edinburgh and states that “They’ve a couple of fraud/bribery/corporate criminal specialists there”. (McGrigors were merged into Pinsent Masons in 2012).
EasyJambo,
Cant say I’m too happy to read the above.
Everything else in this interminable saga that has involved Edinburgh has only served to make matters worse, witness Lord H,Lord NS, SDM,S.J., etc.
wottpi says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 14:26
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Tic 6709 says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 14:23
I have to say I think it is more than likely this one is a lot of tosh.
After all where they not all the boys from Govan’s newest bestest friends.??
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I agree,but I bet they wouldn’t mind another season playing them.