Good Evening.
When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.
It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.
However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.
Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.
Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.
Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.
Job done so to speak.
Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.
Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.
Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.
No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.
Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.
In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.
As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.
Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.
Ever!
It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.
All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.
The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!
All to suit one man!
Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?
Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.
Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.
Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.
With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.
Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?
At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.
It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.
What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.
This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.
It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.
Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.
It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.
All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.
Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.
Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.
Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.
Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?
Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.
Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.
It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor! There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.
From KDS
23 Apr 2013 10:53:28
3rd Div clubs led by Peterhead are about to go to court to block rangers promotion and get them thrown out the league. They will object on grounds that RFC have broken SFL’s rules on transparency of ownership and CW still being involved with RFC. A new vote will be proposed that allows RFC back into the SFL Div 3 only when all matters are cleared up – source SFL.
__________________________________________________________________________
Phone ringing . . . .
‘Campbell, get that sorted will you, anytime today, yep. . . . .Yeah, give David a call if you need to. Talk later. Cheers’.
Over on Bears Den there is a short thread wondering why the details at Companies House for Sevco keep switching back and forward.
One bear may have just stumbled on the idea that Whyte and Green are still working together 🙂
bluepeter, on 23 April 2013 – 12:17 PM, said:
If it’s done online, you don’t need to sign. However, you need the login details. Clearly Green and Whyte both have these.
sergio Posted Today, 12:19 PM
Surely one of them can change the f**cking password ..
Part of season book issue with Celtic is resolving some bad PR last season – I seem to recall they jacked up the price of the kids ST’s (when bought with an adult ST it had been £50?) – it was around the time last year that I was forced to listen to Clyde SSB to try and get info (before I realised they had none) – folk were ringing in and complaining.
Something that has been bugging me of late…just exactly what is it that Craig Whyte did that has seen him painted as the anti-Christ?
Just for giggles let’s examine the main charges –
1. Used an advance on season ticket money via Ticketus to pay off the GBP 18M bank debt.
Well, I do not remember anyone else suggesting any other viable solution to this pressing problem? Were Lloyds just supposed to forget about this and let it slide?
Let’s also remember that contrary to what is often reported in our lovable MSM he did not use the Ticketus money to buy Rangers. He bought an 83% (?) stake in Rangers for GBP 1.00 from Mr David Murray if I recall correctly.
Would the Bears have preferred to have been liquidated at that time over the debt due to Lloyds, never mind what else was due. Again if I recall the “wee tax case” was due and to this day still remains unpaid and God only knows what other debt was around at that time?
2. Stopped paying PAYE and NI contributions sometime around Christmas 2011
Now, I am sure that the bold Craigy has said that he informed the SFA/SPL sometime around Christmas that there was no money (well done in that Champions league run Mr McCoist by the way) and that Rangers were facing administration.
It raises the question – was Craigy told to keep the club running at any cost to get to the end of the season? Just get to the end of the season, by any means, and we will come up with a plan to make it all alright in the close season?
Would the Bears have preferred to have been liquidated mid-season?
One thing is for sure, at that time the actions of Craigy in not paying the due to HMRC “saved” the club at that time. Perhaps the Bears need to reassess their opinions and start to look at him as their true hero fighting valiantly to save the club at all costs?
Which finally raises one more very interesting point…….
Does the bold Craigy have tapes of his various meetings with our esteemed football authorities…..
Hmm….now that would be interesting….
……I demand to know…etc. etc. etc. (ad lib to end)
Celtic have just done something that all fans have been crying out for, reduced ticket prices.
Let’s not cheapen that act with comments about “well they can afford it” or “That’s just a drop in the ocean for them” etc..
Let us look at the positive side of things for once, this is a huge step forward to ensure existing fans stay on board and some new ones join the ride for the first time. At the same time, it also reduces that gap everyone is constantly going on about.
I know this is an extremely difficult step for some other clubs to take but it is the way ahead….
1 down…. 9 to go….
Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 14:47
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Part of season book issue with Celtic is resolving some bad PR last season – I seem to recall they jacked up the price of the kids ST’s (when bought with an adult ST it had been £50?) – it was around the time last year that I was forced to listen to Clyde SSB to try and get info (before I realised they had none) – folk were ringing in and complaining.
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so, that’ll make a Celtic season ticket, on average, how much?
I reckon between £320-360 a year.
Gonna make it hard for Sevco to justify putting season tickets up to £280-290 this season, even with a magnificent promotion in the bag!
As Peter lawell controls the game, is this just another of his ploys to kick sevco when they are down 😀
NTHM – I know,his plan to control the SFA and take over the whole of football is clearly complete. Truly he is the master of cunning.
Have Sevco sent out the ST renewals yet? I could do with a laugh today.
peterjung1 says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 14:55
One thing is for sure, at that time the actions of Craigy in not paying the due to HMRC “saved” the club at that time. Perhaps the Bears need to reassess their opinions and start to look at him as their true hero fighting valiantly to save the club at all costs?
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Craig Whyte stated in one interview “one day, the Rangers fans will look back and thank me for what I did for the club”. This was after or during admin.
He knew what he was talking about then and so did we, why didn’t the media or Rangers fans?
Like you, I have no idea why they see him as the devil.
wottpi says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 14:35
sergio Posted Today, 12:19 PM
Surely one of them can change the f**cking password ..
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Funniest comment I’ve read all day, the answer for those two clowns is probably not!, btw the peterhead story is not going to happen.
Can I remind everyone that it is almost a year since RTC won the Orwell Prize for best blog (23rd May 2012)
He/she paved the way for much thought,pontification and objective analysis.It is ,in my view, a great sadness if,for any possible legal reasons,RTC’s contribution to the saga has been nullified.
if you are reading RTC can I take the opportunity to wish you well and should you feel the urge to contribute then I for one would be delighted.
It’s a sensible investment by Celtic to use some of their CL bounty to subsidise prices for next season. It may not cost them that much either, if they can entice a few thousand more fans to take up the offer.
rantinrobin says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 15:15
It is a FACT that RTC was Peter Lawell. RTC was only a springboard for him to deepen his control of Scottish football.
Thank you to those who replied on squad sizes.
Barca and Real really can’t be used as reasons why the SPL might limit squad sizes. They both run full time Pro teams , separately registered playing in the Spanish League. That allows them and others to develop young players for advancement to the first team squad or sale to help fund future development
The reality is that if the SPL forced clubs to carry a bigger squad than clubs could afford, then that would be wrong. However the concern is that the SPL will enforce a restriction in squad size which forces clubs to a business model which makes no sense for them
That is morally unfair.
If its unclear who owns assets its fair enough that ‘some time’ (how long?) is taken to resolve the issue.
… so long as the asset is of value.
But, what if…
Something terrible happened to someone on one of the sites, say Murray Park, accidentally, but there arises a claim against the company for redress or damages that could run into millions plus costs.
Which company would the claim be against at the minute?
Clearly not the ‘ephemeral’ club?
The Rangers Football Club Ltd (formerly Sevco Scotland Ltd)?
or
Sevco 5088?
Would a claim simply have to wait until the issue is resolved?
Tic 6709 says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 14:23
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Re.rumour above. I called Peterhead and was told by the lady I spoke to that she knows nothing about it,I asked if there was any statement due from the club regarding any issue and she said not as far as she knew.
Inconclusive.
(keeping fingers crossed.)
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Well said and well done. It’s what we should always do when we see/hear rumours. Check the facts.
Now if only the MSM had learned to do this we wouldn’t be where we are now.
sergio Posted Today, 12:19 PM
Surely one of them can change the f**cking password ..
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What’s the password Craig?
Ahh … Mmm … Ehh …
torrejohnbhoy says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 14:26
Celtic announce £100 reduction on ST prices for season,with under 13s ticket £50.
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And there we go. The economic correction in Scottish football is starting: the leading club is cutting its cloth accordingly and adjusting to life without Rangers.
While they may make some of it back in increased merchandise and concession income it generates the decision announced above will cost Celtic what, ~£4mil minimum? This is a defensive move, announced as a “reward”, to protect the season book culture the club has cultivated but let’s be clear: this is not going to be financing big summer signings! Just as I suggested it looks like the board of Celtic WANTS Scottish football to be competitive and is willing to dial back their own spending to achieve that. The difference is that instead of asking their fans to keep paying inflated prices to subsidize the rest of the league (if gate sharing were to be adopted again) they’re pulling themselves back to the pack unilaterally.
blu,
I appreciate the kind words and I imagine they’re not easy for you. And you’re right: I’m generally an optimist.
You’re not wrong about Celtic’s advantages either. With a 60,000 all-seater stadium, a well run business not saddled with excessive debt, global commercial revenue, and regular European runs no other club in Scotland is going to catch up to Celtic financially. You’re not wrong that Champions League money has deformed the top of a lot of Europe’s domestic leagues.
Celtic should not “struggle” like they did in the early-’80s.
But consider these two things:
First, Celtic does not have “free access to CL monies”. If that were the case Craig Whyte wouldn’t have had to finance a season by stealing VAT and payroll taxes and admin might have been postponed ’til 2013 or 2014 when the Ticketus repayments got too arduous! (Which was probably the plan; it would have provided more breathing space for David Murray and made the “it was all the bad mans fault” story easier to sell.) Celtic faces an arduous track each year, largely in pre-season, to get back to the parts of the CL that really reward participants. Even when they do, Scotland’s tiny population means that the rewards are nowhere near as lucrative as they are for clubs from bigger countries.
In fact, to really get consistent access again what Celtic will need are stronger performances from OTHER Scottish clubs to help raise Scotland’s co-efficient. Again, they have a mutual interest in seeing those clubs develop their fan bases and revenue. A more competitive domestic league – where there’s no longer the need to “beat Rangers” – that helps those other Scottish clubs consolidate themselves in Rangers absence is in Celtic’s interest.
Second, clubs don’t need to catch Celtic financially to compete with them over short periods of time. Yes, the gap is huge but, in the end, it’s still 11-v-11 on the park. A well run club with average attendance in the 12 to 15K range and solid financials could build a squad of young players who have been developed together, nurtured into a team, and, with a few astute signings to put them over the top FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. That’s the key: the squad would eventually be broken up and, if they failed to win a title in their short window, might not be remembered but it’s not impossible. Not easy but not impossible either. If there are two to three other clubs doing that consistently each season then all it will take is a bad year from Celtic (and probably a little bit of luck) for one of them to win a title.
Would Celtic winning 4 out of every 5 titles, but a group of 4 or 5 DIFFERENT clubs picking up the odd one here and there instead of just Rangers, not be better for everyone in Scottish football outwith Rangers supporters?
Again, I’m not talking about next year; I’m talking about 5 to 10 years down the road. The landscape of Scottish football could be very different then. Maybe a well run non-sectarian alternative to Celtic emerges in Glasgow that someone like Danish Pastry could take up supporting (from afar). That’s a huge market and not all of them want to support a Scots-Irish club; hopefully many of them also don’t want the baggage that comes with Rangers.
Not that a club needs an identity beyond the geographic community it’s situated in but surely there could be a Scots-nationalist (rather than Unionist) audience who’d support a challenger to Celtic from outside Glasgow, no? I actually get the impression that that’s who a lot of younger Rangers supporters are on my side of the ocean. It might grate actual Scots but the Scottish diaspora is HUGE and there’s a lot of them who get their history from watching Braveheart every other week! A lot of them don’t want anything to do with Irish politics and but follow Rangers because they were a successful “Scottish” club who could beat Celtic.
I’ve got more to write about why gate-sharing isn’t the answer either but need to get to work!
Last thought: what this will really take is for strong leadership to step up, stop fearing blue vengeance and “civil unrest”, and take Scottish football into its next era fear free. THAT’S where I lack confidence based on the performance of the authorities so far. They lost control of the narrative from day one when they weren’t actively trying to help Rangers. Time for touch decisions to be made and reality to be faced and maybe a second implosion at Ibrox will force the issue.
From Peterheid website, not dated or timed but presumably about rumours above and on KDS …
“Peterhead Football Club would like to disassociate themselves from the link on facebook regarding comments about Rangers Football Club.
We would categorically deny that the comments made emanated from any official source within our club.”
Celtic announce £100 reduction on ST prices for season,with under 13s ticket £50.
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i think this highlights the difference in how Celtic and RFC/Sevco are run.
Celtic realise that they are now clearly ahead of the rest of the SPL. They no longer need the Huge squad and expensive players and as a result of the drop off in competition, they need to keep the customers on board.
I expect Celtic to make up this loss – about £4M in income – by selling a couple of players – expect Hooper to be sold – for about £4-5M and Johnny Russel to be brought in for £1-1.5M
we may also see Wanyama/Forster/Kayal sold. But will largely depend on CL progress and the players desire to leave.
However, if the tables were turned and Celtic were in SFL3 now – or would that be Celtco? – then i don’t think RFC would do the same, i’d expect them to carry on bringing in the best players they could sign, spending money they don’t have and generally rubbing everyones nose in it as they marched on to X in a row.
So long as there is a trophy at the end of it, the bears will follow follow. And it will end, where it has ended!
Celtic realise the “product” is not worth what they are charging, they are trying to keep customers on board. They know the reduced prices will give them wiggle room when it comes to the size/quality of the squad. So long as they sneak the league by a few points – then mission accomplished.
Celtic often tried this when rangers were in all their pomp and glory – i’m horribly reminded of the January transfer window we needed a striker and ended up with £50k willo flood because Hibs wanted £4.5m for Fletcher.
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 15:55
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From Peterheid website, not dated or timed but presumably about rumours above and on KDS …
“Peterhead Football Club would like to disassociate themselves from the link on facebook regarding comments about Rangers Football Club.
We would categorically deny that the comments made emanated from any official source within our club.”
___________________________________________________________________________
I’m sure I heard a corporate sigh of relief coming from down Hampden way around 4 o’clock!
I can just see David go up to Campbell’s suite for a dram.
The toast ?
‘To the mess that could have been!’
If Rangers originally reduced prices by 30% and were to put them up by 20%, which I believe is well within the realms of possibility, whilst at the same time Celtic cut adult season ticket prices by £100 does that mean a Celtic season ticket will be less than a Rangers one next year.
chipm0nk says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 16:16
1 2 Rate This
If Rangers originally reduced prices by 30% and were to put them up by 20%, which I believe is well within the realms of possibility, whilst at the same time Celtic cut adult season ticket prices by £100 does that mean a Celtic season ticket will be less than a Rangers one next year.
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possibly, but i don’t see it causing many fans to change teams!!! LOL
canuckbhoy says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 15:45
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Canuckbhoy,
There’s a lot to agree with there, and I do. What I would question is:
Point 1. I appreciate the kind words and I imagine they’re not easy for you.
It was easy to acknowledge a temperate well argued contribution. Can’t imagine why it wouldn’t be. (unless you secretly think I’m a Rangers fan? And it’s relevant?)
Point 2. First, Celtic does not have “free access to CL monies”.
Accepted – but it’ll have no Scottish competition to block it having Scotland’s place, at whatever stage that is, for the next however many years.
Point 3. In fact, to really get consistent access again what Celtic will need are stronger performances from OTHER Scottish clubs to help raise Scotland’s co-efficient. Again, they have a mutual interest in seeing those clubs develop their fan bases and revenue. A more competitive domestic league – where there’s no longer the need to “beat Rangers” – that helps those other Scottish clubs consolidate themselves in Rangers absence is in Celtic’s interest.
So this IS all about what’s in Celtic’s best interest. Why would non-Celtic fans sign up to that? In fact it’s been madness for far too long in that the majority of league clubs in Scotland have effectively been cannon fodder for the real game of whether Celtic or Rangers win.
This is a continuing theme for contributions by good people on here – fairness and integrity is desperately required in Scottish football – as long as Celtic remains the strongest team in the league. I can only ask that you take a wider view. As I said previously, I understand why Celtic supporters (and previously Rangers supporters) would think that way because they’re part of the two biggest collectives in Scottish football and that gives their clubs the financial clout to overpower the others. Sport and following a team gets you that way but let’s not pretend that it’ll be competitive.
Bring on Charlotte18
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 16:31
========================
Indeed.
It may however strike the support of the SFL2 team as a bit harsh, them paying more than a team in the SPL.
Personally I don’t think it will cost Celtic quite as much as people think, as I believe it will encourage more season ticket sales. Whilst at the same time reducing the VAT due.
Just using round figures
Say current ticket sales are 40,000, that gives a loss of £4m. However that includes VAT of around £650,000. So the net loss is £3.35m
Say 5,000 more tickets are sold at an average of £350, that brings in £1.75m with VAT of around £300,000. Gives an increase of £1.45m.
So as a ball park figure and using the assumptions above that’s a loss of c£2m. That of course depends on the extra tickets being sold.
That doesn’t allow for any increase in merchandising, catering or other match day sales which may also result.
monsieurbunny says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 15:37
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Thanks for the kind words.
canuckbhoy says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 13:41
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Good points Canuckbhoy – Jim Spence made the same point last summer when Chick suggested to him that it would be disappointing for the other SPL clubs to be in a one horse race. Jim responded “one horse or two horse, it makes no difference” to the other clubs because in a one horse race they are unlikely to be as far behind as they race progresses as they would be in a two horse race
And he is right; with Rangers in the league, the chances are that after the first round of 11 matches the other 10 clubs would be at least 6 and probably more points behind whoever was top of the league. And that is exactly what we saw this season – yes Celtic won reasonably comfortably but historically with Rangers in the league, the gap to third was circa 30 points and that didn’t happen this year, nor I suspect will it happen next year.
In the meantime, what price this for the Record’s headline tomorrow
“Gers force Celtic to slash season tickets in panic cut” ?
So Celtic FC have made a business decision to cut the price of season tickets. Does that require endless analysis? We have a bunch of strange people at the SFA doing their best to wreck the game. If it keeps up there won’t be a need for season tickets. We’re losing sight of the priorities here.
This investigations stuff – tired of media recycling headlines BS smoke on the marionettes.
If they cut to the chase – This crass lot have brass necked a lot worse and slept soundly. Action like this is commissioned over money – or lack of it. And / or – it’s not rocket science that CW+ Co could have a case and hardly going to spill the beans to privately commissioned lawyers. More like they`ve discovered the reality and want to know their options and any legal manner to cancel / negate CW&Co claims or indeed find grounds for counterclaims – the last my money`s on. [delay is the name of the game]
Breaking news from Ranger on BBC Radio Scotland 6:30
The cleaners have cleansed Ibrox?
Chris McLaughlin promising more dramatic breaking news from Ibrox at 6.30….
Can’t be that dramatic or they would be leading with it, Shirley?
Way way way off course….. I’m one of many followers on awe of a lot of your learned gentlemen and have learned so much from you on RTC & SFM over the last two years.
I know this isn’t Scottish football, but I was wondering if any of you guys who’re in the know about companies house can give me any information regarding a company, please?
It’s Sycamore Crown Ltd
All I can find is it this http://companycheck.co.uk/company/08023102
If someone could give me anymore information it would be greatly appreciated.
Breaking news re rangers at 6:30 BBC Sportsound
Bounce game 1st X1 v dustbins,
The dustbins are winning at half time.
My posts never make this through, so I’ll try again … see if this is a pro-football site or actually a pro celtic site?
I’d like to take you back to the time of the 5% ticket surcharge hoohaa. I was in a meeting with the then CEO of Scottish Football – Gordon Smith (don’t ask, long story). I pointed out that although a 5% agency fee was probably fair in a business sense (happens in many other verticals). That the old firm meeting to decide on this shared way forward was probably (to my mind at least) technically illegal.
He looked incredulous, and if I remember correctly, said something like this was the way it had always worked. Which I agreed with….
So, I checked with the OFT/Competition Commission and indeed the guy who I eventually got through to, suggested that as the Old FIrm had such a significant part of the market, meeting like this and deciding a shared way forward could be considered questionable and worthy of inquiry and possibly breaching competition law.
So, I mentioned this to Steven Thomson (I’m a United fan). He didn’t show any interest in furthering this line …. I suspect he either didn’t understand it, or didn’t want to understand it (I suspect the latter).
So, I went to a well known Football journalist and explained … he was very interested and told me that David Murray had mentioned to him that he was surprised that nobody had pinned Rangers & Celtic up on anti-competitive behaviour.
I emailed Martin Bain and enquired how the 5% ticket surcharge had been arrived at, and he confirmed that Rangers & Celtic had met and decided on a shared course of action.
So …. I give you, Celtic aren’t whiter than white, in fact, in some ways over the long run, marginally less guilty of anti-competitive behaviour as Sevco 2.0 were.
Imagine, when I read in a paper this week. Walter Smith favoured Martin Bain becoming Rangers CEO, because he was in the habit of having regular and close discussions with Peter Lawell & Celtic.
Imagine, what I thought when I heard Peter Lawell and his anti-competitive diatribe a couple of weeks previous in the press.
I tell ya …. There is no competition in Scottish Football. The product is competition and as long as things stand as they are, fans will become less and less engaged with Scottish Football. In the long run everybody suffers through lack of competition.
So, its time for Celtic to properly man up and accept they can’t play in a league of 1 or even 2. Scottish Football is interdependent and there should be a much greater sharing of revenues.
On a related but different point – Actually, if you read Kuper “Pay as you Play” – you’ll see Celtic are by comparison, by my workings, roughly 4/5 times less efficient in terms of wages versus points gained as the next nearest SPL team. ie: Celtic pay approximately 400k per point gained and Motherwell were approximately 80k per point gained.
So, I think in this regard, Celtic are damaged by lack of competition, they’re dumbly spending way beyond what others have to.
…………………. this is my 5/6 post, all never let through. So, we’ll see this time.
Green agrees to sell his shares in spivco. bbc news.
Chris McLaughlin@BBCchrismclaug47s
BBC learns Charles Green agrees to sell his shares to Glasgow businessman James Easdale. #BBCSport
Chris McLaughlin@BBCchrismclaug47s
BBC learns Charles Green agrees to sell his shares to Glasgow businessman James Easdale. #BBCSport
A TYCOON who served time in jail for a £1.5million VAT scam is being courted as a possible investor in Rangers.
Ex-con Sandy Easdale, now boss of a bus company, was given VIP treatment at Ibrox by Charles Green himself on Monday.
Easdale was jailed for 27 months in 1997 for a VAT fraud involving computer parts. The judge ruled he made £1.5million.
(not confirmed)
http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/905250705
As a Rangers fan, Green selling his shares (although thought he couldn’t until Dec?) to Easdale is not great, given Easdale’s past ! Out of the frying pan into the fire possible. any connections to Whyte?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ibrox-chiefs-roll-out-red-1460777
Yup he’s another conman
oh the dignity ho hoho
willmacufree says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 17:39
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Was that a serious post?
In the last weeks we have discussed the reconstruction of the league structure and how that was not as important as narrowing the gap between rich and poor, for the need to get more punters watching the game in the stadium and not at home, to think of the fans more… In what footballing universe is cutting the price of a season book by 100 pounds not worth discussing?
texaspedro says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 18:37
0 0 Rate This
As a Rangers fan, Green selling his shares (although thought he couldn’t until Dec?) to Easdale is not great, given Easdale’s past ! Out of the frying pan into the fire possible. any connections to Whyte?
____________
he has sold him the option to buy
fit and proper person ?
of course says Campbell -we’ve never heard him swear in public !
Green throws a grenade into the mix – getting his own back time I reckon. Now that he’s left he can sell them he was only locked-in while CEO. Looks as though his grandchildren have lost out though as the shares, according to Green, were being left to them no doubt because he wanted them to have the same love of Rangers as he did.
You could not make this up – really you couldn`t – must be a DNA thing
SFA carpets have `suffered enough`
Yorkie’s revenge !!!!
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ibrox-chiefs-roll-out-red-1460777
He’s been sniffing around Ibrox for a while. Another fine, upstanding, and above all dignified “Rangers man”. What a hoot!
G+R sheet metal fabricators Ltd
Clyde metal recycling
Wonder if he knows Sir David ?
Somewhat ironic that certain members of the Rangers board, who may one day be facing prison terms, are having reservations about Green selling his shares to Easdale, who has already been inside. Mind you it was for tax fraud, and that counts for nothing down Govan way.
Easdale, FFS, another fraudster.
Still could be a ploy to remove the Murray/Smith roadblock as they might decide to walk as Easdale want a Board position. But if they walk perhaps the sales won’t end up sold after all and the spivs can just get on with business as planned.
And many on the Darkside seem to think that Green’s coming back after he gets cleared by the internal investigation – I know that’s nonsense but I now believe anything can happen at Ibrox in the near future.
And just one more thing:
Celtic offer to give 300k on a £50m turnover – less than 1%
2nd place team gives 600k on a £3-£8m turnover – is 20%
actually, this was the worst ever idea at re-distributing cash. Would have the effect of weakening competition further. Coupled with the increased TV revenue from additional TV inventory … further weakening others.
Come on…. Its time for change.
The Bears Den
Rangers How? Rangers When? Rangers Forsale.
Chris Martin says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 18:30
My posts never make this through, so I’ll try again … see if this is a pro-football site or actually a pro celtic site?
—————————————-
I doubt there are many on here who would deny that Celtic wield some power and have been guilty of looking after number 1 in the past, as a mad Celtic fan who follows them at immense cost (most of which does not go to the club) I can agree with some of what you say and I am also concerned about the lack of competition and would like Celtic to play a more active part in making the top league more attractive.
In saying that, as long as you and others continue to place Celtic in the same bracket as Rangers then the defence of those claims will make this site look Pro-Celtic.
Of course continued attacks on Celtic even when they do something good could also make this look like an Anti-Celtic site. I always try to remain on the positive side of the fence, and just now, I cannot see you…
TYPO
‘perhaps the sales won’t end up sold after all’ should read ‘perhaps the shares won’t end up sold after all’
I thought about posting earlier after seeing the report of DAFC being called to the SFA over their administration. I was worried what they still might have to do to them after censuring them, fining them and points-docking them….especially as the punishments available under the above-posted section 14 included suspension and termination. I didn’t post, but have just heard BBC news reporting that DAFC may have their membership suspended or terminated.
Is this just speculation on their part as on mine or are they aware of more? If this were to come to pass, how could the SFA justify such a punishment for going into administration when RFC* weren’t thrown out?
timtim says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 18:36
A TYCOON who served time in jail for a £1.5million VAT scam is being courted as a possible investor in Rangers.
Ex-con Sandy Easdale, now boss of a bus company, was given VIP treatment at Ibrox by Charles Green himself on Monday.
Easdale was jailed for 27 months in 1997 for a VAT fraud involving computer parts. The judge ruled he made £1.5million.
(not confirmed)
http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/905250705
……………………………………………………….
For the love of God…does the support need it painted in 2 foot tall bold black lettering….Charlie never gave a flying f*** about your club!
Am I given to understand Mr Easdale is something of a local ‘character’? This is Green’s equivalent of sellotaping a fish to the back of a cupboard in a flat he’s moving out of. It’s going to stink for a long long time.
nawlite says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 19:02
Quantcast
I thought about posting earlier after seeing the report of DAFC being called to the SFA over their administration. I was worried what they still might have to do to them after censuring them, fining them and points-docking them….especially as the punishments available under the above-posted section 14 included suspension and termination. I didn’t post, but have just heard BBC news reporting that DAFC may have their membership suspended or terminated.
Is this just speculation on their part as on mine or are they aware of more? If this were to come to pass, how could the SFA justify such a punishment for going into administration when RFC* weren’t thrown out?
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Good point nawlite, Dunfermline could be thrown out for OWING money, Rangers (IL) kept in for STEALING money.
They surely must be close to running out of spivs now.
This has passed the point of being funny….when do we find out that Kim Jong il…is a secret investor?
It appears Mr Green has sold his option to purchase his shares to James Easdale, however, is it not his brother Sandy who is the convicted VAT fraudster?
Father Murphy says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 19:11
0 0 Rate This
They surely must be close to running out of spivs now.
+++++++++++++++
No chance. There is an inexhaustible supply of pond life and bottom feeders, all ready willing and able to dupe the bears and take away all their money. Again.
Chris Martin says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 18:30
On a related but different point – Actually, if you read Kuper “Pay as you Play” – you’ll see Celtic are by comparison, by my workings, roughly 4/5 times less efficient in terms of wages versus points gained as the next nearest SPL team. ie: Celtic pay approximately 400k per point gained and Motherwell were approximately 80k per point gained.
So, I think in this regard, Celtic are damaged by lack of competition, they’re dumbly spending way beyond what others have to.
=================================================================
I certainly wouldn’t agree that Celtic ‘dumbly’ spend anything under its current tightly-managed administration and very professional Board.
I wonder if Motherwell might be happier if positions were reversed? At a guess they might well be and I suspect their supportres most definitely would.
However, it isn’t as simple as just looking at SLP, points as Celtic have been building a team to consistently challenge in Europe at a high level with concrete aspirations to be in the last 16 each year with a possibility that the last 8 might be possible every 2/4 years. There is also Cup competitions to consider and the glamour friendlies/testimonials that Celtic might be invited to more often than most other teams.
You also have to take account of the value of the squad in terms of profit to be made on sell-on and, with respect to Motherwell, they ain’t in the same league as Celtic on that one. Then there is the actual income generated from all sources – if that can comfortably pay the wages without creative accounting and dodgy tax schemes then there isn’t a problem.
It’s like all stats – you can make them prove whatever you want and if you wish to actually try and understand stats in a meaningful way then you really have to try and see the big picture and not look at one facet which might happen to suit a pre-determined view. I am not saying you have done so, certainly not consciously – but it’s a very common fault in most people and I too have fallen victim to it on occasion.
I haven’t read: Kuper “Pay as you Play” so could be talking absolute rubbish but we can all end-up doing that 🙂
Rangers: Charles Green to sell shares to James Easdale
just in from work – sorry if this has been posted earlier
will easdale be buying the ‘istory too?
test
This is getting like an Ealing comedy. More spivs than The Lavender Hill Mob. Or a Brian Rix farce even.(one for the oldies)
Chris Martin says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 18:50
Come on…. Its time for change
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I thought the vote was against change.
No wonder they call Ibrokes THE BIG HOOSE ,I;m sure that was the name given to Barlinnie prison .The things going on over there make the Bar L look like the boys brigade
As Green had a lock in re selling on, will the AIM need to be informed of how, when and for how much the shares are going for? Now that will be interesting!!
Tom English disagreed with me on his online debates but I can’t help think that this is all part of Charlies plan to get a decent pay off.
It follows his MO.
-Do a rush launch of the IPO
-Watch the share price drop
-Months earlier, set up a smuck in the wings ready to buy his shares for what seems a reasonable price -i.e less than the IPO offer of 70p (Remember this was a long con a la The Hustle)
-When the time is right, come out with outrageous lies and statements on camera (without the blessing and knowledge of the board or the Director of PR)
-Step down due to furore but hey you don’t care because you have skin like a rhino and a few million plus salary in the bank for 11 months work.
-You even make it look like you have fallen out with your previous best friend Mr Whyte but hey when you are sharing a chilled glass or two of Sauvignon Blanc in your respective abodes in La Belle France then who cares.
Triples all round, hoorah.
Heard Guidi on SSB tonight declaring that sevco have to get everything out in the open and the investigation cannot cover anything up as it will come out anyway .
Think the hacks are afraid of the bampots now so are preparing the sevco fans for the bad news.
Also the AIM and LSE are not the SPL and SFA .
Excuse me for some OT nonsense… Adrian Chiles, on ITV, just now talking about Barcelona, just said… “that aura of uninvincibility, if there is such a word, is gone now…”
In a desperate attempt to bring this back on topic, i.e. Scottish Football, can we now say the same about Sevco ? Or are they still uninvincible ? I think we should be told.
timtim says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 18:36
A TYCOON who served time in jail for a £1.5million VAT scam is being courted as a possible investor in Rangers.
Ex-con Sandy Easdale…
====================
Well, I suppose with his deep, personal knowledge of how HMRC operates, he could try and spin it that he could guarantee that a ‘Craig Whyte’ non-tax paying scam will not happen on his watch ? Poacher turned gamekeeper ?
Clutching at straws there !
Beggars belief, it really does. 🙄
And so the circus continues in Scottish football…
paulmac2 says:
Tuesday, April 23, 2013 at 19:13
5 0 Rate This
This has passed the point of being funny….when do we find out
that Kim Jong il…is a secret investor?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That’s a new one. A dead dictator investing in a zombie club. But given Sevco’s record of dodgy dealings, I’m not going to rule it out entirely.
However…
You picked the wrong ‘un.
It should have been Jong Un
😀
Another BS smokescreen in play methinks – high alert guys – something’s up and desperate
What exactly is CG selling shares in if there is a dispute of the assets .why would investors be rushing to buy any part of this debacle .
What do they know that we and the authorities don’t