Good Evening.
When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.
It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.
However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.
Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.
Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.
Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.
Job done so to speak.
Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.
Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.
Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.
No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.
Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.
In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.
As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.
Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.
Ever!
It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.
All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.
The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!
All to suit one man!
Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?
Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.
Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.
Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.
With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.
Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?
At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.
It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.
What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.
This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.
It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.
Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.
It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.
All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.
Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.
Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.
Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.
Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?
Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.
Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.
It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor! There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.
” he raised £22 million in the share issue, he had the clubs interests at heart”.
He lied to people in order that they invested in a club that he had control of
He didnt dip into his own pocket he dipped into everyone elses
If Tom English is still spouting that he did this for the benefit of the club rather than Charles Green then he is a gullible fool or he is trying to cover up the obvious.
Prediction: Ally and Cardigan gone tommorow. Bears sites vvvvv unhappy.
Online Cambridge Dictionary:
fiasco
noun [C]
/fiˈæs.kəʊ/ US /-koʊ/ (plural fiascos or mainly US fiascoes)
Definition
› something planned that goes wrong and is a complete failure, usually in an embarrassing way:
synonym for : Rangers Then, Rangers Now, Rangers forever
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/?p=692
It’s been quite a day, and with only a few minutes left of it, tomorrow is almost upon us.
I wonder what it will bring.
Maybe more fireworks!
Can’t wait!
Welcome back Stunney!
Just listened to bomber v english
On the subject of the deeds…..what was it brown was suggesting?
Brown says he new everything…what is this everything he knows
Does he know whyte is involved
Does he know whyte owns ibrox etc
Surely if he knew that then he could have easily blown it all wide open by making it publicly known.
Is he saying he told smith and mccoist…and traynor….and they didnt believe him? If so, surely these rangers legends have a duty to find out – especially walter as a NED but also mccoist whos legend status will be left in tatters if the sink ships again and he is in charge.
I dont believe brown KNEW anything…like us all…he suspected a lot but had nothing to back it up.
But tonights outburst has done for ally and walter unless they act now.
I just listened to the interview between Brown & English and I have to admit I was never a fan of Brown when he played for Rangers, likely because he was a committed Rangers man. Tonight I have a different opinion of the man because I suppose I’m not hearing or seeing the guy that just wanted to kick lumps out of every player that he came up against. If you were in the army and fighting Brown would be the kind of guy you would want beside you, run through a brick wall for the cause and his team. All that said I felt he didn’t give much away about what he knew about Green etc because to be honest I think he didn’t know that much. What he did know was likely no more than he could have picked up on sites like this. He was maybe a bit like Rangers fans such as Glen on here, he was prepared to listen, take information, argue and make a judgement. So I think like many on here he knew Whyte was a spiv and that there was a connection with Green as proved on here, so he must have been reading this blog or maybe you told him Glen 🙂
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 at 23:59
Ha ha lol. I posted the link to the interview and then started to listen so you must have finished listening same time as me and came to the same conclusion, Brown knew no more than us lot.
stunney says:
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 at 23:49
God Stunney where you been ? Jail ! that must be the first post in a long time. 🙂
Stunney is Stateside ,or was, I think.
Are you getting the papers in Stunney?
If John Brown knew everything that was going on, and loved Rangers so much, why did he not come out with what he knew at the time.
He made all sorts of nebulous accusations and sound bite friendly claims, but he never actually told the Rangers support what was actually going on. He now claims to he knew exactly what was going to happen and distils it all into “I telt yeas and I was right”.
Bottom line in my view, he was trying to get control of the club himself, with some financial backers behind him, and it didn’t work out. If he really cared about Rangers he would have shouted what he knew from the rooftops, and not played it the way he did.
I won’t even go into his associations with Barry Hughes and by association Andrew Ellis, Stevie Malcolm et al.
John Brown is suddenly a Rangers hero in all of this, really. Fair do’s if that’s what Rangers supporters choose to believe.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/charles-green-reported-to-serious-fraud-office-1-2907713
http://www.scotsman.com/news/tom-english-green-in-the-pink-for-now-1-2908425
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/charles-green-poised-walk-1850439
It seems appropriate to mark Ms Fitzgerald’s 96th birthday…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRyDB4RWJdw
1.briggsbhoy says:
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 at 22:42
goosygoosy says:
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 at 18:00
I’m wondering who was working with Green on this. I would suspect that Green must have been taking advice or working with others, he surely would need someone to help mull over the ins and outs of the options. In that there must be people at a professional level who knew what he was doing.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
BB
I doubt it somehow
Green may have got the idea to scam Whyte from another Spiv but he doesn’t seem to have equipped himself with a top Spiv Lawyer
I reckon there`s a world of difference between a top Spiv Lawyer and a crooked Lawyer
One forbids you to take risks and the other encourages you to do so
He chose the wrong one
Goosy that narrows it down…… Di Stefano 🙂
He should be keep a bunk warn for his arrival.
briggsbhoy says:
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 at 23:59
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Sadly I didn’t have a pie and a pint with Bomber!
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chipm0nk says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 00:11
—————————
I hear what you say. Maybe he should have spilled the beans as to exactly what he was told – and I appreciate that he, apparently, was part of some bizzare consortium that had, again, apparently, put a bid in for Rangers but, from what I can gather from John Brown, he is a fan. And I very much doubt his Sermon on the Steps was anything other than him trying to alert fellow fans as to what was happening at the top of that staircase.
He’s in a lose/lose situation by your logic.
If he comes out and tells the truth, he’s only doing it because he’s in a huff because his bid bas kb’d, if he comes out and says all is well, then he’s in cahoots with the rest of the “Rangers Men”.
My own personal take on it, is that he had been given some information (why he chose not to keep it to himself, I have no idea but, on the radio tonight he said that he passed it on to other “Rangers Men”) and he stood up there and told it like he saw it.
Bomber might not come across as well as the Spivs that have ruined Rangers, but I reckon his heart is in the right place.
Why is there silence from Regan and Ogilvie for the past 365 days?
Why when the media are trying to investigate this shambles do they
huddle round a microphone asking Derek Johnstone his opinion
Regan and Ogilvie are paid by the taxpayer and the supporters of Scottish football
ie: us!
Every time Green or Whyte or even John Brown open there mouth they reveal something
whether they wish to or not.
The silence from the blazers at the SFA is insulting
The media should be camped outside their homes thrusting a microphone at them
asking the questions and demanding they answer.
It is obvious that their silence protects them from revealing the truth and its obvious
that the media don’t want us to know what the truth is.
Who cares what Derek Johnstone thinks ,from what I’ve heard coming out of him
its obvious he doesnt do much thinking at all .
Get them into a studio and question them ,when they refuse to do so ,shame them
on national media until they do .
If they refuse to speak then we have to campaign that they are removed and install
someone who will .
Regan , Ogilvie and the MSM are part of the problem not part of the solution
rant over night night see you all tomorrow
scapaflow14 says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 00:13
Is TE is sending us smoke signals with the Mr Pink references… ?
Where did you pick that up I wonder?
Hey… If you’re listing in Tom (good 4 you btw!), and fancy putting the J back into churnalism, you could do worse than getting laid into the SFA around about now:
The narrative is there: it was posted by Humble Pie on the previous blog post on Friday, April 12, 2013 at 00:04 : Hanlon’s razor.
So go dig.
Ask questions.
Fetch answers.
Report replies, including significant silences in response to reasonable questions etc.
Check answers that are given before printing
… remember?
(Nope …Didn’t think so!)
306 3
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Hanlon’s Razor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju65gr9sUjk
An interesting interview with Bomber and English…
some of the highlights…
He alleges Duff and Phelps paid media house 140k? did that come from the creditors pot?
He alleges he provided McCoist and the Cardigan with his take on what was going on…they chose to ignore it? lets remind ourselves this was back in August 2012…what has McCoist and Smith done since then to follow up Bombers claims? errrmmmm…f**k all…in fact both have been supportive of Green!
He alleges he passed his beliefs onto chosen journalists? lesson here Bomber…they were always part of the problem…as proven by one who had been asking Craig Whyte to approve his columns…and then accepted a job he had been asking for at the club…you chose the wrong horse in this race…Alex Thomson would have been the better choice!
He alleges fraud has taken place…lets see the papers run with that one.
Bomber you have nothing to fear by going public…your continued silence will assist those you believe are killing the club..
John Hedges @JohnHedges109 2h
“@nickeardley: Front page of tomorrow’s Scotsman pic.twitter.com/nxJlv6oqNm” @Pmacgiollabhain
………………………………..
OH dear….
Ps…is he a former yet?
easyJambo says:
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 at 22:19
18 0 Rate This
The Rangers Standard claims that Imran Ahmad is a poster on RM
http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/250-exclusive-ibrox-leak
Going by some of the posts, there might be some merit in the claim
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Is it just me EJ, or is that Rangers Standard story (if proven) not quite a big scoop?
Here we have a member of the board accused of using social media to leak sensitive financial information, promote his own position and attack other directors.
Surely these charges have to be answered and if they have any merit IA must be considering his position.
The thick plotens.
alex thomson @alextomo 7h
And to all those asking yes, I am in touch with the SFA about the apparent Whyte involvement with the registration of the club after his ban
Yesterday on Tom English’s online Q&A he dismissed Bombers “version of the Gettysburg Address”, as he calls it, by saying he “suspected Brown knew nothing”. I submitted a question that asked if it would not be better if he actually asked Brown what he knew rather than suspecting it.
Tonight on BBC Radio Shortbread he asked Brown what he knew. Well done fur daein’ whit yer telt but why ask 10 months after the question was most relevant.
As for Brown I have respect for him in speaking out when his club were being stitched up and not surprised that Alistair and Walter refused to help when he sought them out but took the money instead, yet again.
The CE says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 01:18
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easyJambo says:
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 at 22:19
18 0 Rate This
The Rangers Standard claims that Imran Ahmad is a poster on RM
___________________________________
OR
Is this just part of ahmad’s planned exit strategy?…( You know… sack full of used 20’s… Castle South of France… out the door sharpish, shares to the Kray twins?)
And in next week’s Rangers news: Stockridge will be disciplined for slicing Ian Black’s ear off during salary negotiations. He subsequently leaves the club under a cloud (with a sports direct bag full of blackthorn cider bottles etc.)
I mean its not like stranger things haven’t already happened, is it?
easyJambo says:
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 at 22:19
18 0 Rate This
The Rangers Standard claims that Imran Ahmad is a poster on RM
http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/250-exclusive-ibrox-leak
Going by some of the posts, there might be some merit in the claim
———————————————————————————————————
Is it just me EJ, or is that Rangers Standard story (if proven) not quite a big scoop?
Here we have a member of the board accused of using social media to leak sensitive financial information, promote his own position and attack other directors.
Surely these charges have to be answered and if they have any merit IA must be considering his position.
The thick plotens.
______________________________________________________________
CE
In that case, for the avoidance of doubt, would you please confirm that you are NOT Stewart Gilmour. 😉
And so the circus continues…
Mather being promoted as a ‘Rangers man’. Brace yourselves for the ‘Rangersitis’ quote.
And who had guessed earlier about him soon to be described as “a tycoon” ?
It’s so predictable – and now tedious – and yet further motivation to stop buying newspapers.
The churnalists still – still – don’t get it. 🙁
If the bears lap it up for a third time – then hell mend them.
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4901967/Craig-Mather-I-fell-for-Gers-passion-as-a-kid.html
*rubs his hands together in anticipation*
….does anyone else feel the poop is going to hit the fan today????…..
and no, I don’t know anything. Just a gut feeling…..
For all the car crash radio nature of the broadcast involving Bomber and Tom English , little new was added to what we already were aware of.
Bomber confirmed that Walter and Coisty knew what he did and did nothing about it. That wasn’t news to the readers of this blog , as I suggested this 4 days ago on here, and fellow bloggers agreed.
It was good however to have it confirmed . The Sevco 5088 and Sevco Scotland issue got an airing, but that was brought to our attention by Paul McConville in June 2012
In October 2012 CQN posted a story on the heads of terms relating to the sale and leaseback of Ibrox
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=10730
Green rubbished it, and it wasn’t given much coverage in the MSM , as to be fair Greens denial was specific. How many would believe his weasel words now ?
The MSM have themselves been groundbreaking in recent months. There has been a general realisation that Green couldn’t be believed, and they stopped believing and started investigating.
The problem the MSM have now is that there are so many targets and a limited resource. I am absolutely sure they will be all over Green, Ahmad, Sevco’s of all shades, Whyte , and Dave King.
Here’s a hint on area’s that should prove fruitful in getting to the core of why all of this started. Because the problems started long before Craig Whyte tripped into town to hand over £1 to David Murray.
Put some resource into finding out why Souness got an EBT, and follow where that takes you. Make him deny the only EBT he got was the £30,000 detailed on Mark Daly’s programme. Then find out if anyone else got an EBT , or was the beneficiary of EBT funds, for similar reasons.
I always wondered why Souness accepted an EBT for such a trifling sum (to him) of 30k.
Clearly Barca is suggesting he got much, much more whilst Newcastle and Blackburn manager.
I’m struggling to recall(!) where The Cardigan of Dignity went after leaving Rangers. I wonder if he also was a beneficiary after leaving the club? Now where would that leave the now NED?
I’m sure his friend Campbell will keep him right!
They complain we are obsessed……who couldn’t be …..and why shouldn’t we be? When the biggest sporting and business scandals in our small country’s history uncovers itself, almost in slow motion due to our inept or compromised churnalists, it is our duty to keep this debate going.
I have been a silent observer and infrequent poster here and on RTC for some time now and I am hugely impressed by the quality of debate, forensic analysis, good humour and goodwill demonstrated on these pages…….and it has been enormously entertaining.
Please keep I up……the gift that keeps on giving.
A nagging doubt in the back of my mind.
Why would TGEF give instructions to his legal team to pass a file to the SFO re SEVCO 5088?
If the SFO investigate would that then mean that a civil cast could not proceed until the criminal investigation was concluded?
If TEGF wants control of the assets why drag things out by adding the SFO into the mix?
If the SFO become involved would a criminal process put the assets outweigh the reach of BDO?
Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 08:34
It could simply be that the SFO can demand answers to questions that he cannot. Any evidence uncovered could then be utilised in a civil case. It is very common for criminal cases to be brought against companies, and conviction to form a strong foundation for a civil case, particularly in cases of criminal liability and fraud.
callumsson says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 02:41
easyJambo says:
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 at 22:19
18 0 Rate This
The Rangers Standard claims that Imran Ahmad is a poster on RM
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It has been clear right from the start of the consortium involvement that RM was totally flooded with new posters talking up the Green camp and urging the buying of STs and attacking Bomber etc. This has gone on and one and on and at times I’m sure they outweighed the ‘normal’ posters.
It was easy to spot on RM because the site publishes a ‘post count’ for posters. I could never figure out for certain whether it was driven by a PR organisation or whether it was styled on a share-selling boiler house operation. Level of football knowledge seemed low but as they were attacking perceived enemies of the new owners or simply praising the new owners you didn’t need a lot of football knowledge.
The same sort of thing has happened on non-Rangers blogs although in some there is little doubt in my mind that much more sophisticated PR type arguments were at work and a lot of the effort appears to have been directed at posters perceived to be pro-Celtic or anti the consortium or even pro-Scottish Football.
These posters all had a clear message and were reading from the same script and appeared to hunt in small packs. Trust me paranoid I am not and always go for the c*ck-up theory over conspiracy but having watched this saga slowly unfold there is a lot more conspiracy involved than I ever suspected.
Of course I am well aware of Celtic posters who post, for various reasons, on Rangers sites but their style and objectives are easily discernible from the people I speak of. It has been quite sad wtaching how the information flow has been so easily controlled with the Bears being more and more driven into an information cul de sac.
Big Brother is truly alive in Ibrox and I have no doubt the Ministry of Truth is still pumping out its ‘news’ full blast. The Bears have been manipulated into distrusting every journalist and boycotting most media organisations and now only swallow the official line from the club website. The control is absolute and any Bear with half-a-brain who argues against the ‘party line’ is torn to bits on the heavily-infiltrated websites.
They now sit while turmoil engulfs their club and the most common refrain is: ‘I’ll wait till the club issues a statement and then I’ll know what the truth is’. My club right or wrong has been elevated into an art form of deception.
If the dust ever settles on this shambles, we and the clubs should resolve to set up some sort of over-arching body or association to prevent this happening again. I propose we call it the Scottish Football Association. To assist with the role, there should be articles of association to make it clear what is acceptable and what is not. Without these, some clubs could cause mayhem in order to get what they want and punishments may be inconsistent. It’s amazing the game has gone this long without these.
I’m surprised by the positive reaction to John Brown’s performance on Sportsound.
He still hasn’t come up with anything specific, either in substance or in sources, and from his comments that he was unable to provide proof to Smith or McCoist, it doesn’t sound like he has any.
Claiming that English owed him an apology because his daughters had been upset is contemptible. People with daughters are exempt from criticism?
I was sorry to hear English backtrack a bit on the “daughters” issue, but more annoyed that he didn’t pin Bomber down on what he knew or at least how he “knew” whatever it was that he couldn’t be specific about.
Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 08:34
A nagging doubt in the back of my mind.
Why would TGEF give instructions to his legal team to pass a file to the SFO re SEVCO 5088?
If the SFO investigate would that then mean that a civil cast could not proceed until the criminal investigation was concluded? If TEGF wants control of the assets why drag things out by adding the SFO into the mix? If the SFO become involved would a criminal process put the assets outweigh the reach of BDO?
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Firstly I think we need to see whether the SFO act and tbh I have my doubts as they are swamped with much bigger cases.
However I don’t think CW has any interest really in a criminal investigation which could truly unleahs the dogs or war in all directions.
He’s going on the fear factor that others, with just as much fear from what the SFO might uncover, will be forced to cut and run with whatever loot can be raised.
This means that whatever rump is left might be forced to do a deal with CW because their main witnesses will be gone and won’t be coming back and won’t be giving statements and won’t want to appear even in a civil court.
So whether there is any wrong-doing or not the defence against CW’s claims is going to be weakened and I doubt, if there is any money or assets left, that those in charge will want to see it swallowed-up by huge legal fees in a case that is unlikely ever to be run in court.
Night Terror says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 09:06
I’m surprised by the positive reaction to John Brown’s performance on Sportsound.
He still hasn’t come up with anything specific, either in substance or in sources, and from his comments that he was unable to provide proof to Smith or McCoist, it doesn’t sound like he has any.
Claiming that English owed him an apology because his daughters had been upset is contemptible. People with daughters are exempt from criticism?
I was sorry to hear English backtrack a bit on the “daughters” issue, but more annoyed that he didn’t pin Bomber down on what he knew or at least how he “knew” whatever it was that he couldn’t be specific about.
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I think any one of us with children or family who has experienced or witnessed the deep and lasting hurt that can be done to them through actions which are not of their fault or making would readily identify with Bomber’s anger. His anger was a natural reaction because deep down he knows he hurt his family through his undeniable love of Rangers. I actually think it also says something about the humanity of Tom English that he recognised and sumpathised with Bomber – journos often trail a lot of sh*t in their wake which lands on the innocent as well as the guilty and especially family members and it’s a part of the job few like.
I am glad to see that Bomber did change his priorities and put them first after the ‘warning’ he received. Bomber, like most of us, is a human being with flaws. If he had been CW he would have taped Green and been able to supply the required level of proof.
Instead he says he told McCoist and Walter and I realise that goes down like a lead balloon with some Rangers supporters but on gut feeling I trust Bomber on this one when stacked against the mealy-mouthed utterances from McCoist and strange positioning of Smith.
Bomber is quite clear he didn’t have proof that would stand up to a legal test but that doesn’t mean that what he said is wrong and I doubt if anyone other than some with a sepcific agenda now believes he was wrong. Bomber was Spartacus but the Rangers Men were being a bit green at the time so he was cast as a deluded bampot by the PR machine.
Just for the record – I don’t know Bomber and am positive I have never ever spoken to him. My only previous experiences with Bomber is ‘hating’ him for the utter commitment he showed for his jersey and club when playing mine, which is Celtic. And right to the end he still put Rangers first and it discarded his honour, commitment and pride like a sack of rubbish.
barcabhoy says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 07:37
For all the car crash radio nature of the broadcast involving Bomber and Tom English , little new was added to what we already were aware of.
__________________________
Completely agree with you, but at least Brown has put it out there where those who rely on the MSM will hear it. I’m sure we’re all frustrated by the lack of media uptake of what some very knowledgeable writers on here post, but surely Brown’s ‘revelations’ will force some hacks to investigate his claims, even if it’s just to visit here for the real news 😉
I’ve just logged in to state, for the avoidance of doubt, that I am not Peter Lawwell.
Listened to the podcast of Sportsound when I got in last night – most interesting thing they’ve broadcast for ages. Particularly enjoyed Brown throwing Alistair, Sir Cardigan and James Traynor under the bus.
Feel like today will be interesting…MSM have ramped it up a bit with the front page of The Scotsman. We seem to be back where we were a year ago, with a daily circus show down Govan way.
Long Time Lurker says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 08:34
6 1 Rate This
A nagging doubt in the back of my mind.
Why would TGEF give instructions to his legal team to pass a file to the SFO re SEVCO 5088?
++++++++++++++++
Because the SFO will make a quick decision if the evidence is clear that fraud has taken place. They get a lot of criticism, but prosecuting fraud is usually an absolute nightmare. For a start, most juries get easily confused both by the complexity of the case, and the silver tongues of the defence barristers. This case is high profile, so if the evidence is strong and the matters reasonably straightforward, then the SFO might see it as a way of salvaging their reputation.
A criminal case would get through the courts quickly, and if a guilty verdict was the result, there would likely be no civil case, or just a tidying up exercise.
A contested civil case would take years to get through the crowded court system. Very nice for the lawyers, but I get the feeling that Whyte wants a quick result, and maybe a tasty slice of revenge if Green does end up in the dock.
Can TRFC survive as a functioning football business if either a criminal or civil case is launched? Very unlikely, in my view. The “Rangers men” might have to form another new entity, join the juniors, and forget about playing at Ibrox until the dust settles (in about 5 years time if the civil courts are involved).
Paying Whyte off 6 months ago would have been the best forward, but the trouble is that having called in the SFO, he can’t now call them off. So I guess Whyte has concluded that there was no chance of any negotiated settlement, maybe because the IPO cash really has all gone, leaving just the properties to fight over.
This could get very messy very soon. It’s time for a few Rangers legends (that means you, Walter and Ally) to “do walking away” with as much dignity as they can muster. The longer they stick it out, the more tainted they become. And Walter needs some urgent advice on his responsibilities as a director, before he gets himself into real trouble.
I’d rather send a file to Columbo than the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) !
Also known as the Seriously Flawed Office.
This SFO stuff is just a game.
Night Terror says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 09:06
————————–
I agree NT, I am also very surprised at the positive remarks for JB.
I think Bomber had a point, the attack did seem overly personal but TE was correct when he stated that the past history did not make JB the obvious choice. In saying that, Lennon and McCoist had no history and stepped straight into the hot seat without receiving the same level of abuse, which is where I see JB’s point about it being personal.
TE was also correct by stating that his partners in the consortium were a little bit dubious and therefore no different to the previous or current set in charge.
TE did what we have been asking the media to do in respect to ALL claims or statements made, read, dissect, question and ultimately critique or even ridicule them when appropriate. This also applies to positive statements or achievements where they should give them praise and credit where it is due.
JB has not stated anything yet that we have not discussed on this forum, his claims are about what he believed was going on, he could be right but that is not the point. He did not come across well, he had a chance to stick it in but he either choose not to, or was not able to articulate his feelings properly.
To give JB some Brownie points, he did state that both Smith and McCoist were made aware of his concerns and they choose (like the press) to ignore this. He also finally revealed what Green said in the meeting about closing shop. I also admire the way he tried to reach out to the fans at the time; he deserves some credit for that even if the performance was somewhat down-market.
And his claims of being stabbed in the back by Jim Traynor was also revealing, some others would not admit to having this sort of pesonal friendship with a journalist so credit to him for that.
I have no doubt he heard and saw some things in the early days of Green that led him to believe this guy was in there with only one agenda, to raise as much money for himself and others before making a hasty retreat. But we all suspected that (or at least came to believe that based on the input of the key players on here and other blogs), he has not provided any evidence and like the rest of us, he will just have to sit back and accept an unspoken and unwritten apology as events unfold. The only problem is this, most of us will sit back sporting a wry smile and see the final outcome as an apology, he on the other hand is a Rangers supporter at heart and will be deeply saddened when that time comes.
So I have the opposite view from some others, I think TE came out of this much better, he stood his ground and asked the right questions but did not receive any answers. Pity he and the other journos (mostly the others) don’t use this diluted Paxman type questioning on Murray, Whyte and Green. Based on that interview, maybe the other Murray, Smith and McCoist should also be subject to this. Now that would be the day when I would be proud of Scottish Journalism as to date, I have never heard any of these guys facing uncomfortable questioning (that ends up being published…)
Craig Mather has been involved in a recent flood of tycoonery which the MSM appear not to have noticed.
One business enterprise has a strange flavour to it and I honestly am unclear as to where, if at all, it fits into things at Ibrox but better minds than mine can possibly assist in unlocking the key or pulling the ring tab.
Little Big Shot Ltd was incorporated on 15/1/2013 with Craig Mather as the sole director and as yet there is no business description for the Nottingham based enterprise. There used to be a Scottish company based in Wishaw named: Little Big Shot Ltd which was incorporated on 4/8/2009 and compulsorily struck-off and dissolved on 9/12/2011. The sole director of that company was Mr Albert Andrew Jukes.
Mr Jukes has returned, if not with a bang at least with a pop, as a director (23/9/2010) in the Belfast-based Big Shot (NI) Ltd along with fellow NI-based director Mr Declan Hardy (14/10/2010). There isn’t enough internet bandwith for me to adequately sing the praises of the company’s wonder product but just google ‘jukes little big shot’ and you’ll truly be amazed at this energy drink that the world has been waiting for.
It seems that an earlier incarnation of the drink didn’t quite tickle consumer taste buds. But once the almost miraculous properties of the deep sea minerals found 2000 feet below the Taiwanese waves was identified then there has been no stopping the meteoric marketing campaign and success of the wonder product.
Since the beginning of the year Little Big Shot has caused a marketing and media frenzy and I note that £1 million has been spent perfecting the drink – £700,000 of Mr Juke’s own money – with multimillion £ profits predicted in global sales.
Perhaps Mr Mather may well have imbibed of Little Big Shot such has been his recent rapid elevation in the tycoonery stakes – of course perhaps his Little Big Shot company has nothing to do with the shooting star success of Mrs Jukes’ drink which seems to be getting very heavily promoted in the North American market.
ecobhoy says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 09:30
__________________________________
Whatever view one takes of Brown, I think his claim to have informed McCoist and Smith about his fears is plausible and likely to be true. As Barcabhoy so eloquently pointed out, it is unbelievable that he would not have told them. Don’t forget that he lost a good job over all this.
He may not have had evidence to back up his fears, but given his stuck-record utterances over the deeds there are only a few options in defence of McCoist and Smith;
1. They think that Brown is a Flat-Earther and ignored him.
2. They didn’t trust him due to his own questionable business connections.
However given the past association of all three men, it seems reasonable – unless 1 above applies, that they may themselves have asked the “Deeds” question of Green or asked Brown for more information. I think that Smith and McCoist’s position hinges on whether or not I was reasonable to take Brown seriously or not.
The absence thus far of any rebuttal from Smith and McCoist is also telling. Maybe they will have to act in rebuttal sooner rather than later. Failure to do so may be due to a fear that the truth will come out eventually..
Tom English also was very disingenuous in his argument about the “£1 back” claim. He took advantage of Brown’s inability to think on his feet on radio. He banked on the fact that Brown would find it difficult to defend the claim that he (Brown) had offered £1 to Green in one sentence and £8.5m in the next.
The answer of course is that the £1 remark was rhetoric and that the £8.5m was fact. Not nearly enough to hang the man. Brown’s position appears to be, if you extrapolate from his other comments, that English was doing the bidding of Media House throughout the personal attacks on Brown on radio and in print. I think he did a fair job of making that point well.
Note also the lack of surprise over the allegation that Traynor had duped Brown.
It is perhaps a bit fanciful for Brown to be proclaiming himself a seer, but he got enough right that others who should have known better got spectacularly wrong, or chose to bury their heads in the sand for reasons best known to themselves.
ecobhoy says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 09:30
…
Instead he says he told McCoist and Walter and I realise that goes down like a lead balloon with some Rangers supporters but on gut feeling I trust Bomber on this one when stacked against the mealy-mouthed utterances from McCoist and strange positioning of Smith.
…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The way I see Smith is that he has been held up by Rangers supporters as being this paragon of everything that is good in their eyes; a true Rangers man; a mighty footballing brain etc etc.
In reality, I believe Smith is of no more than average intelligence and is currently completely lost; he does not have a clue what is going on around him or how he is meant to act or react. He has, throughout his career had strong men around him, either in a footballing sense (Jim McLean) or in an alleged business sense (David Murray). He is now, ‘on his own’ and is floundering. He knows not which way to turn and his inaction is taking him down to a very dark place where he may become personally liable.
McCoist, is perhaps a little cleverer, but in a sneaky underhand way. Financially, I think he is inept and clueless though and if they retain his services he will undoubtedly burn through any money that may be left.
Just my thoughts
ecobhoy says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 09:04
The support have been, and continue to be, played like a cheap banjo. Perhaps the last act in this drama will not be the selling on of the history and the Etienne bike, but, the selling on of the support themselves. I’m sure one of the American cults would pay top dollar for a whole new demographic to exploit. All that would be required would be to log on to RM and FF and convince them that the wee men from Ursa Major were actually blue…..
We really need to get a grip of the Education system, we seem to be turning out folk by the 1000 who are unable to think for themselves.
In life we all come across a wide range of people.
In the main most people are genuine and wouldn’t do you any harm.
In the work place there are people (mostly at the top end) who have aims and objectives, in the main they believe they are for the good of the organisation. You may not agree with all they are wanting to do but you see where they are coming from.
Then there are those who you instincitvely know don’t have a scooby and wonder how they got where there are. (Generally because people didn’t call them out a lot earlier).
Lastly there are those out to line their own pockets and sod everyone else.
The trouble these days is that unless there is strong union representation to protect your position very few people want to speak up from the back of the room and say ‘Hey, your talking BS’ for fear of loosing their jobs etc.
The other side of the coin is you have those who stick in with these guys to hold onto their own positions.
Green did not pass Bombers sniff test. I doubt very much if he passed Walter and Alastair’s.
I bet many here know people who didn’t pass our sniff tests, we couldn’t prove it but we knew what was going to happen down the road and guess what – it did.
Bomber was probably in a better financial position that most to call the boss out and walk away, but I still admire the fact that he did.
Now it could be argued that Walter and Alastair may be trying to win the fight from within but only time will tell if that is true and if they are successful.
allyjambo says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 09:32
0 0 Rate This
barcabhoy says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 07:37
For all the car crash radio nature of the broadcast involving Bomber and Tom English , little new was added to what we already were aware of.
__________________________
Completely agree with you, but at least Brown has put it out there where those who rely on the MSM will hear it. I’m sure we’re all frustrated by the lack of media uptake of what some very knowledgeable writers on here post, but surely Brown’s ‘revelations’ will force some hacks to investigate his claims, even if it’s just to visit here for the real news
—————————————————————————————————
Spot on BB & AJ, if it was up to us I suspect tRFC may have been dealt with long before now. 🙂
It is an interesting turn of events, the RM story this morning. If Chucks ‘little friend’ has been inveigling his way into the discourse of Bears on RM, to drip feed propaganda and misinformation, and to discredit opponents, we find social media once again front stage in this spiraling (downwards) story, and the fourth estate further marginalaised. So…..the spivs became undercover bampots……. to misinform their own bampots……to counter the bampots on here? And where are the journalists? where are the authorities? which bampots have they all been reading, if any?
So many questions……so many bampots……….
Whatever the historic truth about this ‘great Scottish institution’, they are now little more than a nest of vipers, without any semblance of a moral compass, utterly devoid of professional integrity . Sure makes good viewing though! Its like last spring all over again every day brings more and more twists and turns…..can they sink any lower?……………..
For all those TRFC fans ,at present bewildered as to the destiny of their club,take note of the sage words of former President George W.Bush
http://youtu.be/KjmjqlOPd6A
Interesting sidebar from the daily telegraph on reconstruction:
“Reconstruction proposals could be revived this week
Scottish league reconstruction, widely assumed to be dead in the water after the SPL clubs could not muster an 11-1 vote to deliver their end of the deal last week, could stage a remarkable revival over the next few days, Telegraph Sport can reveal.
One senior club administrator said: “When the dust settled last week and people calmed down, there was a realisation that perhaps we had not been so far apart as we had initially thought.
“Although it was reported that there was no will amongst the clubs to take this any further, there is, in fact, a degree of optimism that maybe this can be put back on track.
“It will have to move very quickly if it is to be done in time for next season, but it is possible that something might emerge later this week.”
Elsewhere, Aberdeen midfielder Jim Bett has for 23 years been the answer to the pub quiz question: who was the last non-Old Firm player to be named as the best in Scotland?
However, Bett will now be consigned to the history books after the non-Glasgow quartet of Hibernian striker Leigh Griffiths, Motherwell’s Michael Higdon, Niall McGinn of Aberdeen and Andrew Shinnie of Inverness were shortlisted for this season’s award.
In the Young Player of the Year category, Victor Wanyama is Celtic’s only award nominee. He will face competition from Griffiths, who is looking for a rare awards double, as well as Dundee United pair Stuart Armstrong and Gary Mackay-Steven.
The winners will be announced and presented with their awards at the Hilton Hotel in Glasgow on Sunday, May 5.
“
madbhoy24941 says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 09:52
Well said.
I think Tom English is one of the best weapons the MSM have, however as you say while he was quick with his display of ‘hubris’ to a jobbing professional footballer/coach, he and his ilk have never got that deep into the bones of others in the game, who frankly deserve a much higher degree of interrogation that that dished out to Bomber.
That being said, yesterday morning I called for Tom along with Spiers and Cosgrove to get the story back on the friot page and the Scotsman seems to have obliged, so credit where credit is due.
I wonder if John Brown considered whether he had a case for “constructive dismissal” apparently having exposed wrongdoing in the workplace, or acting as a whistleblower.
As required in these cases he cleared his desk and left his job immediately.
rantinrobin says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 10:05
_________
Thanks, this has been in my head since the bold CW made a reappearance.
As has this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6-wG5LLqE
Now i’ve had more time to think about it…..Browns attack on English last night
1st off, what the hell was that “confrontation” about yesterday. Brown demanding an apology for a journo saying it was a preposterous and unpopular decision to appoint him Dundee manager – an appointment that was universally derided by pundits, journos and fans alike.
Bomber is full of his pomp just down as he’s had a good run since arriving – 3 wins, 3 draws from 8 i think it is – but this is not an uncommon feature when a new manager arrives – especially at a struggling club who were obviously under performing all season but who now face a real struggle to maintain their own income/wage levels – they need to impress someone to sign them for next year as the club was already doomed to relegation before bomber arrived.
Anyway, lets see how the next 5 games pan out for bomber before we congratulate the board for a fantastic appointment which blindsided us all.
His performance at Clyde, followed by a lengthy absence from managing at any level, makes him an unlikely candidate for the Managers job at a club fighting for SPL survival.
Anyway, seems to me Bomber has taken exception to English (nothing to do with him being from the republic i’ll wager!) making comments that were pretty much par for the course in punditry world.
Bomber claims that the Board of Dundee received death threats directly on the back of English’s comments. However, by bombers own admission these threats were as much because of the way Barry Smith was sacked and how that was handled. (funnily enough, Dundee forums seem to be in the dark this morning about exactly who was threatened and when – but i see someone is being charged with making online comments threatening Scot Gardiner. There was no police patrols around his house, threats of it being burned down, improvised devices or bullets sent to Scot Gardiner. Just an internet bampot being, well, a bampot!)
But, Brown was quick to move on from what he claims was his problem with English and move onto matters of “the deeds” or as bomber likes to say “on the steps”
Right, can anyone tell me what Bomber claims he knew?
He said “show us the deeds” thats about it. He said not to trust green and he pretty much left McCoist, Walter and Traynor without a name for not acting in the interests of the club – surely they must respond to Bombers claims they ignored him otherwise face the wrath of the orcs (hahaha, like the orcs will challenge walter and Sally – despite them taking more out of the club again!)
Are we to believe that Charles Green sat down with BOMBER and showed him the title deeds, bank accounts, told him Whyte was involved, explained the switcheroo and how Green would get out with his money? Are we led to believe that back in July, each step of green plan was laid out before brown – and if it was….what is teh end game? who knows, Green might have flanked TGEF, Sevco Scotland might be the ones owning the assets, there COULD be money in the bank – not a lot, but enough to get to the season ticket renewals – and who knows, maybe there will be summer cost cutting once they can sell players and they know what the income they have for the year is – unlikely I know, but is brown suggesting that Green told him they’d be stripping cash out of the club, selling the stadium on a sale/lease back agreement and he’d be getting out of dodge?
If so, and Brown new – is it likely Malcolm Murray or anyone else didn’t know?
Brown has read….hahaha…been told some stuff by Internet Bampots, probably at the behest of McKenna who was keen to buy (and strip) the club himself. He ranted like a steamer getting refused entry to a nightclub (much to all our amusement) but he knew nothing, claimed nothing, just had a hunch.
He got as much attention as I’d deserve if I was the one standing on the steps addressing the crowd and warning of doom!
Brown KNOWS nothing – he might have a hunch, but he knows nothing/can prove nothing. He has been let down by other “Bears” who decided to be “souptakers” and line their own pockets and not press Green for more info/proof. he has presented himself poorly and he walked away when there were PLENTY of people who would have given him the oxygen of publicity if he pushed hard enough and presented his case properly.
Mark Daly and Alex Thommo being 2 who would have happily aired his concerns – instead he went to the media poodles that RFC relied on for so long – he got what he deserved…IGNORED by the succulent lambers.
Brown has claimed everyone was against him
Brown has claimed he received threats to shut up
Brown has claimed D&P paid Media house to silence him
yet he is angry with English…who at least has cast some doubt (not a lot but some) over Charles Green.
Re John Brown and what he “knew”.
Many people feel that it is only common sense to assume that Craig Whyte was chosen to do a particular job. That job, of course, was to steer the old club to liquidation – following what was assumed would be an imminent and negative verdict in the BTC. Craig Whyte was not chosen to throw a single penny of his (or anyone else’s) money at the walking dead.
If we follow this theory, it is only because of the FTT(T)’s delay in delivering its verdict and the club’s early exit from Europe that the original plan appeared to have come unstuck. We know that Mr Whyte did not inject any money and the cash simply ran out.
However, If we stick with the idea that Mr Whyte was chosen to oversee the old club’s death and the transition to a new Rangers, the only material thing that really changed was the cause of the killing. The real change was the perception that Mr Whyte was to blame for Rangers demise – whereas death by BTC would have seen Mr Murray cast as the principal villain.
Regardless of the methodology, Mr Whyte’s journey towards liquidation proceeded (more or less) to plan.
If it is correct that Mr Whyte was required to create distance between Mr Murray and the demise of Rangers, it follows that Mr Whyte needed other players to ensure that the assets were kept together and a new Rangers could rise from the ashes.
Mr Whyte could not be seen to be involved in a new club, because that new club had – for marketing purposes – to use the same trading name as its predecessor. The real value of the old club’s assets was its name; but section 216 of the Insolvency Act precluded Mr Whyte’s involvement in a new club called Rangers.
Mr Whyte claims that Mr Green was his front for Sevco 5088 – which, according to the theory, makes perfect sense.
Mr Whyte claims that Mr Green fraudulently transferred the old club’s assets out of (or away from) his company Sevco 5088 and into an unconnected company Sevco Scotland.
Mr Brown claims “he was told” that Mr Green was involved with Mr Whyte and that ownership of the old club’s assets were not certain.
If this theory is broadly true: who could have told Mr Brown? Who would Mr Brown trust enough to believe such a tale?
On reading Malcolm Murray’s statement concerning the robust state of whatever-they’re-called’s finances, a catchy tune from the 1960’s entered my head:
“Three wheels on my wagon,
And I’m still rolling along.
Them Cherokees are chasing me,
Arrows fly, right on by,
But I’m singing a happy song….”
(For those unfamiliar with the rest of the lyrics, I can reveal (exclusively) that things did not end well for the vehicle in question.)
Who drove the train right off the rail ?
Who told us they’re too big to fail ?
They have their cross -we have the nail
Its now gone well beyond the pail
The Times ,the Record the Daily mail
all you do is wail and wail
For this crime their is no bail
Do not pass go-go straight to jail
hail hail
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/other-sports/journalist-who-snared-lance-armstrong-earns-redemption-on-a-biblical-scale.20909721
Journalist who snared Lance Armstrong earns redemption…..
by
Hugh Macdonald
Chief Sports Writer (Herald)
Irony can be so delicious…. dontcha think?
Dear Hugh and colleagues at the Herald and other Scottish MSM – read your own article – you DO realise which part you guys played in the parallel story of corruption in Scottish Football? You must surely realise this by now – yes?
As the big hoose lurches through yet another crisis on what increasingly looks like a long, painful decline into utter oblivion – will none of you pluck up the courage to ask the questions that need to be asked?
Will none of you take Mr Murray to task for the corruption he brought into the game?
Will none of you take the SFA to task for the corruption they brought into the game over so many years?
Do none of you think that Mr Olgilvie’s role needs exposed?
Do none of you feel brave enough to highlight the long years of institutional bias towards one club to the detriment of all the others and the game in general?
Will no-one find the cojones to do a thorough analysis of the roles played by each of the current Board and other senior management at the Big Hoose? The Cardigan and Sally have yet to be asked any serious questions about their role(s) in this fiasco…
Redemption is on offer for any serious journalist / editor who can break with the old ways and commission a serious in depth investigation into not just RIFC, but the rotten state of football administration in Scotland.
Yes. You will be ostracised by some of your colleagues.
Yes. You will lose friends at the SFA / SPL / SFL.
Yes. Life may become a little more awkward.
David Walsh had the cojones to go after and ultimately expose one of the biggest stars of world sport, overcoming massive hostilities and impediments on the way. He is a journalist worthy of praise.
Are any of you?
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 10:26
0 0 Rate This
—————————————————
Good post.
This casual mentioning of ‘death threats’ and of being ‘warned off’, if accurate should be pursued vigorously by the relevant authorities. There are some serious peepil on the fringes of Scottish football, already we have had managers, directors, politicians, journalists (32 of them!) and voluntary contributors to SFA judicial apparatus threatened in this way, and like a whole raft of other thorny issues, it is booted into the long grass in the most cowardly fashion, in the hope we can ‘get back to the football’. Not for me, this type of blatant intimidation and thuggery should be confronted….or are we moving into an era where such things accepted as just part of the fabric of Scottish football? …..hell, we are already there!
For what it’s worth, my thoughts on last nights English v Brown encounter
Overall an interesting encounter, spiky enough that some issues were raised that would not have been if it had been a mutual back-slapping exercise. More such events would surely be useful in getting to some kind of truth (as when Green was on STV recently)
TE’s £1 / £8.5million point was rather flimsy, maybe worth a mention then move on, certainly not strong enough to keep coming back to
TE showed a good pugnacious streak in keeping going during the interview, and credit to him in recent weeks for definitely rising above the general MSM level, and his willingness to engage with both fans and players in the saga. A lot more of that would be good
I’ve said before that I think TE is the best writer of the current Scottish journos, added to which he is clearly not thick (e.g. doesn’t keep wailing that all this financial stuff is above his head and how is he supposed to cope). If he can get enough info, I think he has the skills to maybe get somewhere with this
JB was a bit all over the place at times, but he is not a media person. That is a failing in terms of articulacy under fire, but also a plus, in that despite being obviously uncomfortable in that arena, still put himself there, implying a degree of bravery that others seem to lack.
And while it may well be true that JB did not know more than regulars here know, he did stand up in front of a crowd and expose himself to ridicule AT THE TIME. And I think that is the commendable point.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 10:26
I never thought I would defend John Brown. He clearly continues to get a hard time for simply being honest and wearing his heart on his sleeve.
I was impressed with the interview last night. He made his position clear. He knew what was going on, just didn’t have any evidence to back it up. Once the season tickets were sold he backed off to let the fans enjoy their football. You can’t fault that.
People seem to forget that he stated “on the steps” that Craig Whyte and Ticketus were still in the background and that there were behind the scenes agreements. The MSM are still playing catch-up on that all these months later.
John Brown had the courage to speak when others didn’t. I would trust John Brown any day of the week ahead of the likes of Ally and Walter.
Interesting quote from Mather in today’s Herald:
“I’ve always wanted to be more of an integral part of the business and of football. I’ve worked very hard with Ally [McCoist] to get a better understanding of him, the dynamic of the man, so that we can work together in the next transfer window. I believe it was the right thing for the club to move me into this position in the circumstances.”
Emmmmmmmmm – Ally might find he has bigger problems with Mather than Green.
Scapa.
“Reconstruction proposals could be revived this week
Heard that last week (Tuesday), but time is passing and the ship may have sailed. The use of the words “appeal the outcome” did throw me off and decided not to comment as it sounded wrong. I think a few Div1 sides budgeted for something very different this year or next, which did not and may not pan out.
I now suspect that a certain club may have given out money that was on the table, and the ship has sailed. If we see other SPL clubs follow the ST pricing lead, I suspect that deal is dead.
Barcabhoy
I’m surprised no-one has picked up on your point about Souness and the EBTs. I suppose the story has moved on quite a bit since Mark Daly’s documentary, perhaps that was the purpose of Whyte, Green and whoever’s up next, but do you think the real EBT story has still to come out?
Was part of Media House’s £140k to make the story disappear, as well as discrediting Brown and his consortium?
callumsson says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 02:41
30 0 Rate This
easyJambo says:
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 at 22:19
18 0 Rate This
The Rangers Standard claims that Imran Ahmad is a poster on RM
http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/articles/current-affairs/250-exclusive-ibrox-leak
Going by some of the posts, there might be some merit in the claim
———————————————————————————————————
Is it just me EJ, or is that Rangers Standard story (if proven) not quite a big scoop?
Here we have a member of the board accused of using social media to leak sensitive financial information, promote his own position and attack other directors.
Surely these charges have to be answered and if they have any merit IA must be considering his position.
The thick plotens.
______________________________________________________________
CE
In that case, for the avoidance of doubt, would you please confirm that you are NOT Stewart Gilmour.
————————————————————————————————
callumsson,
After taking advice from my legal representative Donald FIndlay QC, I’m afraid I can neither confirm nor deny those rumours. 🙂
beatipacificiscotia says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 10:55
0 0 Rate This
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 10:26
I never thought I would defend John Brown. He clearly continues to get a hard time for simply being honest and wearing his heart on his sleeve.
I was impressed with the interview last night. He made his position clear. He knew what was going on, just didn’t have any evidence to back it up. Once the season tickets were sold he backed off to let the fans enjoy their football. You can’t fault that.
People seem to forget that he stated “on the steps” that Craig Whyte and Ticketus were still in the background and that there were behind the scenes agreements. The MSM are still playing catch-up on that all these months later.
John Brown had the courage to speak when others didn’t. I would trust John Brown any day of the week ahead of the likes of Ally and Walter.
======================================================
and your point is [caller]
until they understand and admit the real truth – that it is a new club, then forget them, do not give them the oxygen of publicity. they are a new club playing in the 4th tier of scottish football. why should they get any more press than any other 4th division club.
unless – as they are, [as someone pointed out yesterday], a phoenix operation, with the same director
(craig whyte), then that is a “phoenix”
in which case, they are still liable for all debts – not just the “football” debts.
so, come on HMRC and BDO, [as john brown would say]
get them telt – you have to pay the £134 millions you owe.
it’s ok, we will give you 20 years to pay it over.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 10:26
I think the apology Bomber was seeking was for what he saw was Tom’s over the top demolition of him as a candidate for the Dundee job.
Like everyone else I thought it was a strange appointment but as has been mentioned earlier no different from former players and VERY inexperienced coaches Neil Lennion or ‘Mr TV’ McCoist being appointed to the two big jobs in Scottish Football.
Bombers record at Clyde was raised but as he pointed out he didn’t even get £35k that he was promised to strengthen the squad. Meanwhile McCoist has a full time squad including internationalists with all the modern training facilities getting paid £7m, they they are total cack and the MSM keep giving us the ‘he needs a full season – its all the other distractions’ excuses.
You can surely see why Bomber may see himself as not being treated fairly when compared to fellow Ibrox stalwarts.
His rant on the steps in some ways didn’t help his public image but as someone said earlier Bomber is a product of his time when talented youngsters were only ever encouraged by clubs to develop the brains in their feet.
Oh that we were all as eloquent as Tom English and his other well read and well educated media colleagues.
bellshilltim says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 11:10
1 0 Rate This
Barcabhoy
I’m surprised no-one has picked up on your point about Souness and the EBTs. I suppose the story has moved on quite a bit since Mark Daly’s documentary, perhaps that was the purpose of Whyte, Green and whoever’s up next, but do you think the real EBT story has still to come out?
Was part of Media House’s £140k to make the story disappear, as well as discrediting Brown and his consortium?
————————-
I’m sure Media House’s overall brief was to put out fires and to promote a positive message, regardless of the topic
Initially it would be easy to deal with. Souness and Murray just refuse to answer questions. Then the focus moves onto something else
What is required is the type of banner headline that has been used to bring attention to other areas.
The MSM can make it an issue by shining a strong enough torch on it. There are however much easier targets to hit just now and only so many pages in a newspaper.
However at some point there will be space and a shortage of easy targets. There will also be a verdict on the BTC appeal which will bring the issue back into focus.
The clever journalist would get ahead of the hack pack . That’s what real investigate journalism is all about. Look at Mark Daly, that’s why he is so successful. He goes where there is smoke but not yet a fire, and sometimes where here isn’t even any smoke
As there is a current and persistent theme ,heavily criticising our little pack of reporters it is worth mentioning that Robert Redford was interviewed this morning on The Today Programme, BBC Radio 4.
Redford was talking about the state of journalism in the States and referred back to ‘All the President’s Men’ He commented that such a film would have little chance of seeing the light of day in the current climate. No surprises there.
Of more significance, however ,was his remark that modern day journalists in the U.S. are incapable of producing and developing a story. In the days of Bernstein & Woodward an Editor would only allow a story to run once the reporters could guarantee corroborated information through two sources prepared to go on record. This according to Redford should be the basic underling tenet of any good journalist seeking out the truth.
Now let us apply this argument to the Rangers story and how it has affected Scottish football.
We have, of course, examples of good journalistic practice particularly with regard to the input of Messrs. Daly & Thomson. Both sought out significant sources willing to go on record, and ,in turn, they developed the story.
Now, is any Scottish reporter out there willing to tell me that given the implosion at Ibrox there is not one significant participant who, when directly questioned, will not buckle?
Ask the questions? Dig and you shall find .I am a little bit tired of hearing the pontifications of journalists coming out with somewhat pompous observations of what their perception of the situation is. They tweet and tease about what they know or might have heard. We know the spiel ” I have it on good authority” ,” I have been at Ibrox today and I know for a fact.”…….and on and on ad infinitum.
Stick to questioning and finding sources and develop the story.
To all you journalists you are running out of time as ,frankly, like the newspapers you work for, your readership is on the wane.
Note. The Redford interview is at 07:45,BBC Radio 4,Today
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/04/25/the-easdale-brothers-rangers-shares-fit-and-proper-and-charles-green/#more-3573
Thought for the day.
If you put the combined resources of all the contributors on this forum,coupled with the magnificent legacy of RTC and aligned them as a working team,coupled with the guidance of say Mark Daly and Alex Thomson I can state,with much confidence,that this story would have far greater clarity in comparison to the efforts of the Scottish mainstream media.
wottpi says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 11:26
2 0 Rate This
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 10:26
I think the apology Bomber was seeking was for what he saw was Tom’s over the top demolition of him as a candidate for the Dundee job.
Like everyone else I thought it was a strange appointment but as has been mentioned earlier no different from former players and VERY inexperienced coaches Neil Lennion or ‘Mr TV’ McCoist being appointed to the two big jobs in Scottish Football.
——————————–
the appointment of Lennon and McCoist is in no way comparable to Bomber getting the Dundee gig.
both Lennon and McCoist has spent lengthy spells at the club working directly under the then manager. In the case of McCoist, it was agreed well before Walter left that he would be taking over and he was groomed for the position – i believe he was responsible for the 1st team in the cup competitions
Lennon had been at the club years as a player and coach – working mostly with the youth set up. But he stepped as someone at the club, in an interim basis following the disaster that was tony Mowbray. And other than that cup game, Lenny went on a very impressive league run.
It is not unusual for inexperienced coaches to work their way up to the top spot at a club – indeed, Liverpool were legendary for it. And lets look at Pep Guardiola for another example of a novice getting a big gig.
However, Brown is very different to McCoist/Lennon
1. He was not employed/working at Dundee when given the job – so not an appointment from within
2. He is NOT a novice manager – he already had a poor record at Clyde (by the way, how much less did Brown get than other clyde managers?)
3. On his side is the fact he is an ex dundee player – however, any goodwill that might have bought him would have been wiped out by his playing of the uber-gers card over subsequent years and then more recently, his bid to buy the club as he stood frothing like a loon “on the steps”
it was a left field appointment. I still think it’ll end badly once they get relegated and he gets a full pre season to adjust his team to SFL1.
if i’m wrong – i’ll give him the apology he no doubt feels he deserves
Night Terror says:
Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 09:06
I’m surprised by the positive reaction to John Brown’s performance on Sportsound.
He still hasn’t come up with anything specific, either in substance or in sources, and from his comments that he was unable to provide proof to Smith or McCoist, it doesn’t sound like he has any.
Claiming that English owed him an apology because his daughters had been upset is contemptible. People with daughters are exempt from criticism?
I was sorry to hear English backtrack a bit on the “daughters” issue, but more annoyed that he didn’t pin Bomber down on what he knew or at least how he “knew” whatever it was that he couldn’t be specific about.
……………………..
I would say that Bombers careful and considered responses to the list of questions put to him does not necessarily mean he does not have hard proof of certain aspects of the situation…
What I would say is…if you honestly expect me or anyone to believe that McCoist and Smith…on given the choice….between ‘support Charlie to get season ticket money in’….or seek confirmation of what a friend John Brown and supporter of SEVCO told them….that they chose Charlie because John could not be trusted without documents to back up what he was saying….
That I believe is why the original club was liquidated…and why SEVCO are being systematically turned upside down with the very real prospect of going out of business..
The very least McCoist and Smith should have done was to robustly seek and challenge what was going on…they didn’t…they became part of the mess we now see…
And Bomber has nailed them to a post….they have no option but to walk or counter John’s ascertion that he told them back in August 2012 what we are seeing now.