Scottish Football and the case for a Bismarck!

Good Evening.

When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.

It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.

However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.

Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.

Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.

Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.

Job done so to speak.

Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.

Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.

Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.

No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.

Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.

In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.

As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.

Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.

Ever!

It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.

All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.

The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!

All to suit one man!

Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?

Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.

Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.

Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.

With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.

Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?

At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.

It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.

What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.

This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.

It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.

Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.

It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.

All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.

Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.

Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.

Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.

Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?

Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.

Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs  or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.

It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor!  There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.

5,402 thoughts on “Scottish Football and the case for a Bismarck!


  1. I very much doubt that Mark Dingwall is making pronouncements on RangersMedia. I believe he (as Grandmaster Suck) owns and runs Follow Follow, and the two forums (or is it fora) don’t exactly see eye to eye.


  2. chipm0nk says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 16:35
    ____

    Yes, I corrected my error in the post below. He posted as admin on FF and said it was all about to take a turn for the worse but apparently did not elaborate further.


  3. scapaflow14 says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 16:22

    Corsica 1968 dropping not so subtle hints that Dave King may already control a sizeable portion of RIFC shares

    “Can’t stop laughing ‏@corsica1968 1m
    DCK is Dave Cunningham King, former director of RFC plc and current holder (allegedly) of over 12% shares in RIFC plc thru client accounts.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That can’t possibly be right. Don’t the company have to dislose holdings of more than 5%? If they don’t isn’t it a breach of AIM rules? That rule being in place to prevent market manipulation by unscrupulous people. Crivvens!!


  4. My sources* indicate that the next lot of bad news is, as predicted by Phil Mac, that the IPO cash isn’t there and was either mostly moonbeams/promissory notes or is having a nice long rest in a bank account far from these shores.

    *Twitter and other fitba’ fora


  5. bogsdollox says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 16:41

    Shares obtained via client accounts, allegedly, so he may have proxies.


  6. chipm0nk says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 16:35
    I very much doubt that Mark Dingwall is making pronouncements on RangersMedia. I believe he (as Grandmaster Suck) owns and runs Follow Follow, and the two forums (or is it fora) don’t exactly see eye to eye.
    _-
    Grandmaster Suck? – eh- Do I need to get on to Bletchley Park again?


  7. AM QC
    He posted as admin on FF and said it was all about to take a turn for the worse but apparently did not elaborate further.
    ————————————————
    I´d have thought Queen´s Counsel above Chinese Whispers !

    “There´s a rumour that there is a rumour that doesn´t elaborate further”

    LOL


  8. greenockjack says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 16:49

    There is an (dis)information war going on, and contrary to popular belief among the Rangers fans, its not the media, the authorities, or, for the most part, fans of other clubs, that are waging it. Its factions within the company, using favoured fans as proxies.


  9. A lull now, until the next storm ?

    Again, without wishing the fun to stop, is there not a good chance that things will go quiet for a while down iBrox way ?

    It seems, [IMO based on nothing in particular], that the latest frenzy of rumours/threats/leaks etc is all about positioning / strengthening negotiating tactics ?

    For anyone connected to TRFC, you would think that the next priority is to secure the ST cash.

    It’s not in anyone’s interest therefore, to create such confusion or uncertainty that the bears simply withhold their cash until they know what is going on.

    So perhaps nothing significant will happen for a few weeks/months ?

    Or unless TRFC runs out of cash before ST’s can be sold ?


  10. Text of SFA letter?

    Dear Mr Whyte / Green / Other* (*delete as applicable)

    We most humbly apologise for writing to you about what we’re sure is just a wee misunderstanding about who owns what assets as far as Rangers / The Rangers / Other* are concerned.

    We appreciate that all of the financial to-ings and fro-ings of business are very complex (particularly for an internationally renowned business such as your good selves), and we wouldn’t understand them anyway, but if you have the time at any point over the next few weeks, could you drop us a line just to say that everything is fine. That will allow us to advise the press that everything has been checked out properly and is in accordance with our statutes.

    Even if you feel that not to be the case, because you were placed in the third division, we start from the viewpoint that obviously no sporting advantage has been gained by any potential misunderstandings over your business dealings (other than perhaps over Spartans, but as you will recall, they are repeat offenders, and so deserve all they got).

    With our sincere apologies once more for bothering you

    Humbly

    etc


  11. Scapa
    The fluidity and fast pace of a changing situation (in the internet age) complicates matters and makes carefully calculated spin-management difficult.

    As you´d expect, there is a battle for the supporter perception, but right now it´s all hands on deck and it´s more reacting to events rather than controlling anything.


  12. greenockjack says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 17:08

    So, you are admitting that we back to having three red lights flying from the Ibrox masthead? (International maritime signal for Not Under Command, the daylight signal is three black balls, but seriously, no chance of Rangers being black balled once, let alone thrice 😉 )


  13. Don’t want to jump the gun – it really is much more satisfying watching well forewarned pigeons coming home to roost – but should we perhaps start a wee book on which rules the SFA/SPL/SFL will have to break next?

    You know, to prop up what remains of the Big Hoose after the current set of detonations go off.

    I’m thinking we might have to start worrying about the laws of physics here: I believe the SFA is capable of time travel and can with one sweep of its majestic authority declare that the NewCo was a NeverCo (we only imagined it these last few months) since it did not comply with their demands for purity from Whyte and that OldCo has yet to (and is therefore free to) transmogrify into a NewCo under the guidance of a fit and proper (as yet to be identified) saviour on a white horse.

    Better suggestions welcome! Forewarned is forearmed – well for most of us anyway….


  14. On the Neil Lennon’s comments, he didn’t raise the point; he answered a question put to him about whether he was surprised at the POTY nominations. If he had refused to answer the question, of course he would have been pilloried too.

    Regardless of who wins this prestigious award, most people would agree it is surprising, to say the least, that there is not a single Celtic player in the shortlist.


  15. Still piddling transactions but share price just about at 57p and market capitalisation now sub £38m


  16. Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 17:08
    No, forget about the SFA website prose & present nonsense. The original SFA Articles of Association are fundamental – perhaps not in the spotlight – but that`s the real history. Yet more contrived contortions and the current SFA will lose its historical lineage. If they do – the service of many in the SFA over generations will dissipate.

    If they’ve lost their moral compass to money so be it – they`ll be judged on that in future


  17. For the avoidance of doubt.

    The SFA – An Equal Opportunities Employer

    Now let me think –

    Campbell – lucky. Ok.
    Darryl – lucky. Ok.
    Vincent? – lucky. Ok.
    Sandy – lucky. Ok.
    Andy – lucky. Ok.
    Stewart – unlucky.

    Yep, looks like a well balanced executive free from any common elements which might pose a conflict of interest or contain any risk of bias.

    Unless of course there’s something here I can’t see . . .

    Maybe Stewart would like to make a statement on equal opps at the SFA.

    Perhaps a journo might ask him.

    No one.

    How no?

    .
    Ps. There is a job going at the SFA, no kiddin’.

    ‘Brand Manager’. Check the website

    http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/football_document_libraries.cfm?page=2033


  18. wottpi…nice to see NOD getting some overdue recognition via the thumbs up…i’d almist forgotten about him!!!…lol

    araminta…surely with the castlemilk dave thing it would only be a problem if they were the same club…oh wait! or if it’s a phoenix? or if you are under investigation and having your assets confiscated left, right and centre? …

    ach! just let them get on with it…


  19. Can someone please clarify for me, hasn’t next season’s ticket money been spent, or at least accounted for at Ibrox?
    I thought it bumped up the books for the prospectus.


  20. scapaflow14 says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 18:00

    Hmm, now it could be that STV just reported it wrong amongst the flurry of Sevcos but I would imagine a certain Fraser Wishart may have the correct info. was it sevco5088 or sevco scotland


  21. bayviewgold says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 18:19

    Eaxactly, D&P would also have details, as would TRFC since a number of non-playing staff did TUPE over.


  22. re the forum posts and potential criminal activity by leaking privileged information, while of course the IP address doesn’t trace the actual person, I imagine that there is enough circumstantial info that a warrant could be issued to retrieve the RFC IT dept logs and see which MAC address and login was the originator, that is if anyone cared to look. 🙁


  23. angus1983 says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 18:32

    sorry did you say something?


  24. Gym Trainer says
    Why is that fireman taking his axe to the bus when the fire is quite clearly out?
    ======
    He is removing the fuel cap and once done will fill the diesel tank with water to prevent
    any chance of the fire restarting,(altho a small hand axe would have been more suited to the task than a large one)


  25. Lennon’s entitled to his opinion. He could have been more diplomatic bit that’s not really his thing. I doubt he’ll hold a grudge if any player chooses to tell him what they think of him for passing judgement where he probably shouldn’t.

    For the record I think it’s perfectly reasonable to expect a Celtic player to have to work a little bit harder to distinguish themselves if 9 or 10 players on any given day will be wearing Celtic jerseys (would Messi be as good as he is without Iniesta et al controlling the game?)
    Also. It seems to me that Celtic won the SPL at a canter. Some of their CL games show that they were phoning it in at the weekends. Fair enough, they were good enough to do that, but if anyone was holding something back for the next European game and their opponents noticed. I doubt their opponents would be inclined to vote for them for POTY.

    While I’m on a TD binge. Where did the idea that Lennon’s a cracking manager come from? He’s had one good CL run. The only other challenge he’s had was the first half of last season. Ally might not be good enough, but he had a 10 point lead over Lennon before his players started thinking more about being fired than playing football. The jury’s still out on how good Lennon is.
    Angus, can I borrow yer tin hat??


  26. Not knowing that much about TUPE law and how it would effect Football Players, If Players in the Oldco thought they had Tuped over to Sevco5088 but had in fact been Tuped over to SevcoScotalnd without there Agreement wouldn’t that be Illegal and make there Registration with the SFA illegal as well.. maybe someone on Here would know…


  27. Re which Sevco

    PFA SCOTLAND MEETS WITH CHARLES GREEN

    Fraser Wishart

    25th June 2012

    PFA Scotland and its legal advisors Bridge Litigation today had a constructive meeting with Charles Green, CEO of the Rangers newco.


  28. SSB saying that 7 Celtic players were nominated for the POTY so possibly that high number split the vote to get any of them on the short list.


  29. scapaflow14 says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 18:00

    Corisca1968 mentioned this story, which I had forgotten about.

    STV very clearly report that the TUPE negotiations were with SEVCO5088

    – Oh Dear, oh dear oh dear

    http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/107715-lack-of-contact-from-charles-green-influenced-players-newco-rejection/

    ================================================================

    exactly.

    but…maybe the 5way “agreement” [with chico verde**], had all sorts of caveats, that every eventuality would be covered anyway.

    would the players be wrongly registered [what was it sandy bryson said]

    [**sitting in 3 seats – sevco 5088, sevco scotland and RFC2012(IL)]


  30. bayviewgold says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 18:34

    angus1983 says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 18:32

    sorry did you say something?
    ——

    Not sure yet … 🙂


  31. ptd1978 says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 18:36

    While I’m on a TD binge. Where did the idea that Lennon’s a cracking manager come from? He’s had one good CL run. The only other challenge he’s had was the first half of last season. Ally might not be good enough, but he had a 10 point lead over Lennon before his players started thinking more about being fired than playing football. The jury’s still out on how good Lennon is.

    ============================

    I don’t know of anyone describing Neil Lennon as a “cracking manager”, other than the bloke who said he must be if he achieved what he did without any player capable of getting into the short leet for PFA POTY. I took that as being irony.

    On his record as a manager, after just over 3 seasons if I remember correctly.

    He has won the SPL in 2 successive years. Won the Scottish cup once and is awaiting another final, and reached the last 16 of the Champions league (from a group containing Barca, Spartak and Benfica).

    Not a bad record actually. Particularly if he does actually win a double this year.

    Ally McCoist on the other hand has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster for Rangers. I genuinely can’t think of anything possible to say about his time with the club (old or new).


  32. FFS

    DJ on SSB saying Sir Walter of Cardigan is a man who knows all about building teams and controlling budgets, so will help Mather and McCoist deal with the fact that the £10m war chest is heading off over the horizon.

    Its like turning on a tap and comedy gold (or is that pish?) flows out!!


  33. wottpi says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 18:46
    2 0 Rate This
    SSB saying that 7 Celtic players were nominated for the POTY so possibly that high number split the vote to get any of them on the short list.

    ——————————————————–

    I wonder if Mr Lennon will apologise for his outburst then


  34. scapaflow14 says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 16:22

    17

    0

    Rate This

    Corsica 1968 dropping not so subtle hints that Dave King may already control a sizeable portion of RIFC shares

    “Can’t stop laughing ‏@corsica1968 1m
    DCK is Dave Cunningham King, former director of RFC plc and current holder (allegedly) of over 12% shares in RIFC plc thru client accounts.”
    //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    If thats the case then he must have been one of Greens consortium of investors?
    The public bought up about 7 million shares between the general public and over 500 million fans( 🙂 ),,,,, which is just over 10% so he didnt get his 12% there.
    Since launch there has only been roughly 1 million shares traded which is only 1.5% of the total shares so the only way he got them was as one of the corporate applications?


  35. So the SFA want more information from TRFC re actual ownwership. Does anyone really believe that TRFC are going to hand over info that will be detrimental to the Club? No neither do I. So why does the governing body expect the truth from an organisation that has repeatedly lied for as long as I can remember. Do the really think that the people of Scotland are so stupid as to accept this ruse?


  36. ptd1978 says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 18:36
    ——————————————-

    Who said anything about NL being a cracking manager, I haven’t seen one post indicating that. Was that a misunderstanding or a slipping of the mask?


  37. ianagain says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 18:41

    Re which Sevco

    PFA SCOTLAND MEETS WITH CHARLES GREEN

    Fraser Wishart

    25th June 2012

    PFA Scotland and its legal advisors Bridge Litigation today had a constructive meeting with Charles Green, CEO of the Rangers newco.

    ================================================================

    legal “advisors” – bridge LITIGATION.

    would they be specialists in employment law, and they would only be able to “advise” on the questions that were being asked and on the basis of the “information” given.

    so, if bridge litigation were told that chico verde was representing oldco and newco, to pave the way for a smooth transition and failed to mention sevco 5088 and sevco scotland, then they could not “advise” on such matters, as they were never asked.

    so sandy bryson would conclude, that no player could poosibly be wrongly registered as chico verde hadn’t told sandy/sfa, that he was changing his “vehicle” and hadn’t told the players either.


  38. chipmOnk did you mean to say positive?
    predictive text said possible?
    predictive text 1 chipmOnk 0


  39. The £10m war chest is not there any more, no way.

    What of Charles Green’s other grandiose claims, don’t tell me those are off the table as well.


  40. SSB saying that sevco PR not revealing how much cash is left from the share issue
    There are storm clouds gathering and it looks like sevco are for the the big L
    Just heard bfdj on SSB begging a sevco fan to dig deep again next year and even after the guy made it clear he has dug deep too many times ,bfdj still pleads with him to buy a ST,that tells me bfdj knows what is coming and it ain’t good news .


  41. spanishcelt says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 19:19

    Corsica1968 suggested they were nominee holdings, which would indeed be corporate. Wonder what he paid for them? And, of course, whether he has ponied up yet?

    Unfounded speculation, but…wouldn’t it be fascinating if RIFC ran out of cash because DKs nominees didn’t stump up for the shares he had underwritten, and then he picked up the assests himself from admin(or whoever actually owns them!) with the same money?

    http://cdn.randomfunnypicture.com/wp2/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2010/04/619x439xhow-business-works-contract-cartoon.jpg.pagespeed.ic.e97VWNaQjZ.jpg


  42. abigboydiditandranaway says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 19:28

    predictive text 1 chipmOnk 0

    —————————–

    Don’t be such a aunt.


  43. Barcabhoy

    Re Souness and EBTs, I recall this from first time round and made the mental leap that a fair few of the ‘players’ in receipt of the EBTs were in fact, not to put too fine a point on it , rotten. Which got me to thinking either RFC were nuts offering the EBTs or they did in fact end up elsewhere.

    Pure speculation on my part


  44. Question.

    If it was RIFC PLC which raised the cash from their IPO, but it was Rangers Ltd (the club) which was spending the money, would that mean that the holding company had been providing the club with loans, making the club substantially indebted to the PLC.

    If so, what would the ramifications for the club be.


  45. ekbhoy
    now your talking my language ,I have always thought it strange that with the EBTs being rife at the club at this time certain peepil seem to have refused or been excluded from this tax windfall .
    Also I’m sure there was a few million unaccounted for when the EBT total was totted up


  46. For the avoidance of doubt: Whilst we tent to point and laugh at TRFC we should not lose sight of the fact that what’s unfolding at Ibrox may be the biggest scandal to hit Brittish Sport ever.


  47. So there is now speculation that DK is involved in the Ibrokes circus , can we now refer to the new regime in the sevco shambles as the phoenix knights instead of the blue knights .


  48. carfins finest
    I would have described it as such when minty sold to google eye


  49. Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 19:52

    For the avoidance of doubt: Whilst we tent to point and laugh at TRFC we should not lose sight of the fact that what’s unfolding at Ibrox may be the biggest scandal to hit Brittish Sport ever.
    ————————————–
    Yet one which inside Scotland has tended to be covered in a very shallow way until recent signs of impending doom were written in large enough letters for the most short-sighted Scottish journalist to see, and to all intents and purposes (not you, Alex) completely ignored in the English – nominally British – press.


  50. jonnyod says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 19:33
    What on earth is `bfdj` ? – or says/said/done – and does it matter or why it might?


  51. Good Evening,

    you will forgive me for being dicomknockerated as Ken Dodd would say ( if you are not old enough to know who Ken Dodd is than go an look him up— or just accept my explanation that he was, and possibly still is, a comedian with a penchant for avoiding the tax man ).

    Forgive me if I come late to the discussion on last nights Sportsound a touch late, but apart from being bloody good radio where you were never too sure if what you were about to hear was the sound of John “Bomber” Brown suddenly losing the plot and seeking to knock seven shades of Guinness out of Tom English,was anyone else amazed at what the Bomber had to say?

    For the avoidance of doubt, what I heard was a fully licensed SFA coach and manager stating for a fact that he thought that a major fraud had been committed by certain parties at Ibrox.

    Further, he clearly said that he informed senior figures ( supposedly Smith and McCoist among others ) that this was going on, but stated clearly they would not act on what Brown had said without proof of what he was saying.

    Now, given that the SFA are actively enquiring into certain matters at Ibrox, does it occur to anyone else as being completely logical for someone at the SFA, having heard this all stated on the national broadcasting service, to go and ask John Brown precisely what he is talking about?

    Also, what are we to make of his comments about being part of the Stewart and McKenna consortium, where there was apparently proven funds available to buy the assets of Rangers PLC?

    Also he clearly states that Green told him that he had the ability to take some sort of ultimate sanction or had the ability– dare I say it— to press some sort of nuclear button as far as Rangers were concerned!

    Such as?

    Sell the stadium? Relocate Rangers? What?

    I found it the most astonishing interview.

    Green, Whyte and Brown!

    Whatever next?


  52. Extract from VB, [won’t post link].
    ==========================

    “…The shame is the Rennie-run Record does not wish to tell the truth about Whyte, but would apparently rather destabilise the current Rangers board, and destabilise the resurgence that Rangers have been undergoing under its leadership…

    I’d advise all bears to avoid the Record, until they can be transparent and less economical with the truth…”
    ==========================

    So, if I have got this right ;

    – whilst VB is being economical with the truth re: the financial and/or assets ownership status of TRFC,

    – VB itself is advising the bears not to buy the DR…erm… because the paper is being economical with the truth ? 🙄

    Is Traynor applying his ‘irony-free’ scribblings to VB as well ?

    I think we should be told !


  53. I’m clueless about all the finance and legality re the RFC shares.
    However I have always thought that no large institution would buy them as an investment for their shareholders as football shares are usually a loser long term.

    I do think that a large institution would buy a large amount of shares for one investor(possibly in South Africa)


  54. It’s often been claimed that what Rangers needed was a fans site , which addressed the issues that are discussed on here and previously RTC, but from a Rangers perspective.

    There are Rangers contributors on here and previously on RTC who attempt to put an alternative perspective . Too often that perspective is couched as trolling and too often it attacks the man rather than the ball. That isn’t exclusive to Rangers supporters, it’s a trait found in some supporters of all clubs, including my own.

    It’s a matter of regret that there are not more Rangers supporters on here to debate the issues and to put an alternative perspective. There were excellent contributors on RTC such as Edward Ursus and Yoijimbo , and even Adam made many cogent and interesting contributions.

    The problem for a multi fan forum , where one club is on the defensive and clearly seen as a problem club by fans of all other clubs, is that reasonable concerns are not aired often enough.

    No doubt every club’s supporters has a default position amongst many, that “if its one of them telling me, I’m not accepting it and will challenge it”

    There is no question it’s easier to hear bad news from one of your own. Which takes me to the point of this post. I don’t have access to follow follow, so am unable to judge it. I don’t believe Rangers Media offers anything to the debate. It seems to me to be a radical extreme site with a very low quality of contributor.

    However there are lots of intelligent, erudite,capable Rangers fans with the experience to make a valuable contribution. Given the Scottish demographic , there may even be more of them than for any other club. So where does this body of rational Rangers supporters hand out.

    I decided to have a look on The Rangers Standard , as it seems to be the site that gets most mainstream media referencing . I visited and read quite a number of articles, some of which were well written, most of which I disagreed with ( no surprise there) . However it was the subject matter of these articles which surprised me.

    There can be no argument that the last 2 years have been the most traumatic in Rangers History. There isn’t a day goes by without a new revelation of the most dramatic nature. The Club is on its knees and yet the list of recent articles is staggeringly bland . The key issues are being ignored,

    Let me provide the evidence

    Exclusive: Ibrox Leak? 24 April 2013 Written by The Rangers Standard

    No Fat Amateurs: Tom ‘The Commentator’ Miller’s Third Division Team of the Year 23 April 2013 Written by Scott Ferguson

    Are SFA Equipped to Enter Reconstruction Row? 18 April 2013 Written by Chris Graham

    Scottish Football: The Season That Was 17 April 2013 Written by Dr Andrew Sanders

    Charles Green Under Pressure 12 April 2013 Written by Chris Graham

    Graham Spiers Misquotes Neil Patey on BBC Radio 08 April 2013 Written by Chris Graham

    The Curious Case of Neil Doncaster 06 April 2013 Written by Calvin Spence

    The Strange Case of Mike Calvin 27 March 2013 Written by Calvin Spence

    Saving Scottish Football 25 March 2013 Written by Iain Nicol

    Ian Black Is My Hero 22 March 2013 Written by Graham McLaren

    Can Rangers Learn From the Swansea Philosophy? 19 March 2013 Written by Ewan McQueen

    11 articles in the last month, and a single solitary one says Green was under pressure. Equally there was a cringeworthy one , “The Mike Calvin ” which defended Green to the hilt. More editorial time devoted to attacking Graham Spiers than asking any pertinent questions over why , time and again, Rangers fans are the victims of shysters.

    Not a single editorial on the two Sevco’s , at least not in the last month. Not a peep about fit and proper shareholders. Not a word about the issues surrounding asset purchase or IPO’s . This is a site which no doubt has Rangers best interests at heart, as it absolutely should do. Yet it’s silence in the last month on the issues which are crippling Rangers has made it easier for those intent on inflicting more pain on Rangers supporters in order to line their own pockets.

    Why Rangers are so badly served by their own community is a mystery. The fans have bought an impressive number of season tickets , for what is and was always going to be a sub standard product . Yet the overwhelming majority have made it easy for the likes of Murray, Whyte and Green to dupe them.

    What will happen next time , because next time is surely on its way. Will the Rangers support a) allow yet another shyster to dupe them, or b) will they develop strong and effective leadership , from within their own ranks , to ensure the next saviour is genuine, and honest and totally transparent

    Based on recent evidence don’t expect the Rangers Standard to lead the way towards b) .


  55. What do Walter Smith,Graham Souness and Alistair McCoist all have in common ?
    correct – they all married Harry Redknaps dog
    EBTs are the modern equivalent of George Grahames brown paper envelope
    I am only speculating but the transfers between players at Rfc* and Everton Blackburn and Newcastle are highly suspicous . Souness has been outed for accepting an EBT for 30k
    but what of Walter and Ally ,surely such prominent figures would not have been excluded from
    Sir Davids Christmas card list . Did Martin Bain get to shred the evidence in time ?
    It’s good of Barcabhoy to remind us of this particular unanswered question
    As Green and Whyte and now the brothers Grim of Greenock don their squirrel outfits
    there is one man still scattering the nuts
    Sir David Murray


  56. The competition NL is complaining about is for the PFA Scotland’s Player of the Year award. In the past most nominations appear to have been for players based at Ibrox or Celtic Pak, possibly as these were the best players, and also as many fellow competitors with other senior clubs supported the ‘ex-big two’.

    With only Celtic remaining, is it likely that a bit of tactical voting has taken place from the players who had previous Govan allegiances?

    For what it’s worth, it’s refreshing, to my mind, that a diddy club player will gain the award.


  57. chipm0nk says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 19:38
    9 0 Rate This
    Question.

    If it was RIFC PLC which raised the cash from their IPO, but it was Rangers Ltd (the club) which was spending the money, would that mean that the holding company had been providing the club with loans, making the club substantially indebted to the PLC.

    If so, what would the ramifications for the club be.
    +++++++++
    Apart from a small amount of matchday income, less than £1m in total, the expenses of TRFC since 1st January can only have been met via loans from its parent, RIFC, presumably out of the IPO money. The overall debt position of TRFC depends on how the ownership of the properties was handled on acquisition from D&P. I would guess that the properties may have gone to Sevco 5088 and are still there, which would explain some of the recent excitement over ownership of that company, but it’s guesswork all the same. To quote Bomber, whaurs the deeds?

    If, as seems likely, TRFC currently owes RIFC a lot of money, doesn’t have any assets, and is clearly trading at a loss, then TRFC is insolvent, and can only continue to trade while it has the support of its parent. If RIFC withdraw that support, because the IPO cash has run out for example, then TRFC has to stop trading immediately. And I mean that very day. That’s how bad it might get.


  58. neepheid says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 20:52

    If, as seems likely, TRFC currently owes RIFC a lot of money, doesn’t have any assets, and is clearly trading at a loss, then TRFC is insolvent, and can only continue to trade while it has the support of its parent. If RIFC withdraw that support, because the IPO cash has run out for example, then TRFC has to stop trading immediately. And I mean that very day. That’s how bad it might get.
    =============================

    That very day won’t be acknowledged until the final whistle of the football season, safe guarding sevcos league position in SFL2 for the third iteration, even though it should never kick a ball!


  59. barcabhoy says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013

    It’s often been claimed that what Rangers needed was a fans site , which addressed the issues that are discussed on here and previously RTC, but from a Rangers perspective
    ————————————————————————————————————————

    I have been fascinated reading the spirited attack on RM of the Gibson Street community festival’s decision to refuse a charity stall for the Rangers Founding Father’s charity efforts.

    I have no intention of getting involved in the pros and cons of the decision because it clearly is a very difficult area when the arguments are looked at.

    But what fascinates me is that at a time when Rangers faces extinction that posters of one of the premier Rangers fan sites are emailing bombing a tiny community initiative plus local shops who happened to appear on the community facebook page as supporting their neighbourhood community.festival.

    Again I accept that to some people this might all be fair game and that’s up to them. But why oh why when Rangers are being ripped-apart is this the focus of the Bear’s attention.

    I suspect it’s because the Bears know that they have absolutely no influence over what is happening at the club because they will be ignored by the owners in control so a few community activists are easy prey.

    The only thing that makes me smile in the whole exercise is the constant rejoinders to the RM emailers is to keep the language reasonable in line with the ethos of the founding fathers or Glorious Pioneers while the bigotry on the site is vile.

    Sadly the ET and STV seem to have publicised the ‘Victory’ without any reference to the site’s disgusting content and even sadder that the Bears think they have won an important victory for their club. A strange lot and obviously easy pleased.


  60. So the SFA have asked for more clarification.
    No answer………………………………………………………………
    Another letter asking for …………. well …………………………..more clarification.
    Never a deadline set you notice.
    This is a basic of any investigation; get back to us with the answers by tis date or these are the sanctions you will face or if you don’t get back to us by this date we’ll assume that the accusations are true.

    Isn’t it strange that a man who has repeatedly told untruths since June last year is now being asked to tell the truth?
    I can envisage it now. Green attempting to write a response with the fingers of both hands crossed behind his back.

    Stil the man who will tell anyone anything they want to hear to get what he wants is given another chance.
    The big question is what will the SFA do when they get the information they want to hear. Surely even they cannot be that thick as to think that this is the end of the acusations/legal moves/investigations/tape recordings and that no more are going to surface. Then again perhaps they are.

    With regards to Neil Lennon’s comments today; I see the usual adjectives of fumming/raging etc were rolled out by the print press. Its all part of the great game that is football reporting in Scotland.
    I personally think he should have said that he was dissapointed that no players were shortlisted but he hoped that they would use it for motivation for next year.


  61. borussiabeefburg says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 20:43

    For what it’s worth, it’s refreshing, to my mind, that a diddy club player will gain the award.
    ————————————————————————————————————————

    Possibly – but if it was tactical voting as you speculate – rather than performance on the playing field – would that not ‘taint’ the award?


  62. Ally might not be good enough, but he had a 10 point lead over Lennon before his players started thinking more about being fired than playing football. The jury’s still out on how good Lennon is. Ally might not be good enough, but he had a 10 point lead over Lennon before his players started thinking more about being fired than playing football. The jury’s still out on how good Lennon is.

    Pure, unadulterated comedy – that’ll be the guy who lost a league title to the legned that is the Cardigan by 2pts, a season in which he was having to leave his house in the middle of the night with his partner and kids multiple times per month due to death threats? That guy? Is he the guy who didn’t have a single manager in Scotland (bar one) speak out in public about this utter embarrassment to normal life in yon wee province just north of Newcastle. Surely not. He’ll be the guy who was 15 points behind the previous SPL winners in Oct 2011 and had overturned that lead 6 weeks before deid-club became deid-club? That the guy? He’ll be the guy that’s won more CL games in one season that a Cardigan has in his entire career? That guy? Jury’s out? Aye, fair enough, but if the case is heard in Edinburgh then let’s face it: he’s carter-rucked.


  63. justshatered says:

    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 21:06

    So the SFA have asked for more clarification.
    No answer………………………………………………………………
    Another letter asking for …………. well …………………………..more clarification.
    Never a deadline set you notice.
    ———————————————–
    To be added to Hp’s post of a few days ago, the one beginning Now who at the SFA would have the influence… In fact in view of the current goings on a wee reminder might be apposite.


  64. Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 20:04

    Re: John Brown
    ===================================================

    I’m afraid I totally disagree with you on this one because John Brown’s devastating remarks weren’t picked-up and broadcast from a trackside mike – we need to ensure that the playing field is level and until NL swears on the BBC in a studio broadcast we can give a guarantee that no further penalties will be issued against him.

    We would also point out in case anyone has misunderstood the SFA position apropos LNS that John Brown will remain innocent until NL commits a future offence. If this causes any confusion we will rewrite the rule book to ensure that NL is severely punished with a 3 match touchline ban next year. The matches involved will be the two cup finals and league title – it’s only fair after all 🙂


  65. ecobhoy says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 21:07
    0 4 Rate This
    borussiabeefburg says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 20:43

    For what it’s worth, it’s refreshing, to my mind, that a diddy club player will gain the award.
    ————————————————————————————————————————

    Possibly – but if it was tactical voting as you speculate – rather than performance on the playing field – would that not ‘taint’ the award?
    _______________________

    These awards are of no interest to me, they rarely represent true excellence, in any field.

    Witness The Scottish Press Awards as an example.


  66. Forres Dee (@ForresDee) says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 15:14

    I hope your right, I think most of us come here to read and discuss with others, as to the reasons why rules are not being followed without fear or favour. Also to take comfort from knowing that our sense of injustice is not misplaced or indeed just wrong, most of us are probably pedants in the nicest possible way.

    ———————————————————————————————————————–

    Firstly, I’d like to take issue with your suggestion that most of us posters are pedants.

    Secondly, it’s “I hope you’re right” 😀


  67. barcabhoy says:
    Thursday, April 25, 2013 at 20:23

    It’s often been claimed that what Rangers needed was a fans site…

    However there are lots of intelligent, erudite,capable Rangers fans with the experience to make a valuable contribution. Given the Scottish demographic , there may even be more of them than for any other club. So where does this body of rational Rangers supporters hang out…
    ======================================================

    It’s always baffled me too that when RTC/TSFM was/is in melt down mode due to a new development in the saga, you go onto a TRFC site and they are discussing which player has the best looking wife, or some such nonsense !

    I think a reasonable deduction is that TRFC is highly effective at controlling the content of fans’ sites, [even to the point of executives posting their own comments – allegedly]. 🙄

    We all witnessed how (S)DM managed/manipulated the Scottish MSM over the years, so the threat of uncontrolled, full-blown Rangers fans Internet Bampottery could not be allowed to develop, IMO.

    …but then again you would also think there would be at least one TRFC fans site which discussed/reflected the main talking points of TSFM – but of course debated with a heavy TRFC bias.

    Are all the fans sites’ administrators just subservient to ‘advice’ from Ibrox – or are they worried about ‘consequences’ if they openly discuss the rumours / truth about their club ?

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