Scottish Football and the case for a Bismarck!

Bybroganrogantrevinoandhogan

Scottish Football and the case for a Bismarck!

Good Evening.

When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.

It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.

However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.

Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.

Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.

Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.

Job done so to speak.

Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.

Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.

Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.

No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.

Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.

In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.

As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.

Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.

Ever!

It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.

All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.

The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!

All to suit one man!

Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?

Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.

Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.

Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.

With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.

Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?

At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.

It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.

What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.

This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.

It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.

Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.

It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.

All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.

Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.

Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.

Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.

Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?

Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.

Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs  or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.

It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor!  There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.

About the author

broganrogantrevinoandhogan author

Boot wearing football, sport & total nonsense fan-- Gourmet, Bon Viveur and eedgit! - Oh and I write a bit occasionally!

5,402 Comments so far

Madbhoy24941Posted on12:28 pm - Apr 29, 2013


I’ve been saying this for weeks and some of the other guys have been (quite rightly) sceptical of the timing or reasons but once again, I have to give credit to Keith Jackson. Today’s piece calls it as he (or at least as I) see it.

The only negative I have is this “Rangers at heart” stuff; they need good people, not good Rangers people. It was good Rangers people that got them into the state.

And again, if you are going to character assassinate the guilty parties, why continue to leave out Murray, Smith & McCoist? I can understand if Murray was left out as the piece was dealing with what’s happening now but there is no excuse for overlooking the roles played by the “Rangers men” who are still there with hands over ears, eyes and mouth.

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zerotolerance1903Posted on12:31 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Auldheid says:

Monday, April 29, 2013 at 11:59

Zerotolerance
Re what financial info can The Rangers supply in place of audited accounts I have been asking this question since the turn of the year.
My supposition is that to get the go ahead from the SFA some financial forecasts were provided last year. Now some 9 months on the SFA have some actuals to look at and I have already provided a link to figures that suggest there may be trouble next season and insolvency the next acertainty unless The Rangers run their business on a sustainable basis.
I believe an earlier version of that revised forecast without the sale and lease back scenario in the latest link was given to the SFA by a journo across the water who has asked on what basis a licence can be granted in view of more recent information that has come into the public domain since.
What I was assuming would happen was a response to rubbish the forecast and state on what basis the SFA would grant a licence. As far as I know the SFA have not responded and here we are at crunch time.
_______________________________________________________________

TRFC should have readily available (unaudited) monthly management accounts. They should also have financial forecasts.

The SFA should have received financial forecasts and plans when TRFC were admitted

The SFA could reasonably ask for copies of the latest management accounts and current projections, etc. They could ask for interim financial statements and they could ask for those to be audited.

They could compare the information they got 9 months ago with what they get now and they could ask some meaningful questions as result. They could ask for supporting documentation to any information they get now e.g. copies of bank statements.

They could ask for evidence to support some of the other licensing criteria – such as owning their own stadium or having an unreserved right to play there.

Or they could just let things continue on a nod and a wink.

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ecobhoyPosted on12:31 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Re Green and Ahmad walking away money:

RFCL employed Charles Green as Chief Executive of RFCL for an annual salary of
£360,000 per annum (plus benefits and expenses including accommodation costs). The agreement is terminable by RFCL either for cause or on 6 month’s notice and by Mr Green on 3 months’ notice.

However on flotation this changed as did the employing company to:

The agreement is terminable by the Company (RIFC Plc) either for cause or on 12 month’s notice and by Mr Green on 3 months’ notice.

So the notice period from the company doubled for Green just as it did for Stockbridge.
Ahmad’s agreement is terminable by RFCL for cause or on 12 months’ notice and by
Mr Ahmad on 3 months’ notice.

All of the RIFC Plc NEDS are terminable with 1 month’s notice from either side and its interesting to note that this applies to Murray as well although earlier with TRFC the notice period was 6 months from either side.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on12:32 pm - Apr 29, 2013


jerfeelgood says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 12:14
================================================
From SFA.
Rule 1872-2012 sub section 16.90.

if you play in Blue,are based at Ibrox,Evaded Tax,Stiffed creditors,subject to police investigations and other possible criminal/civil actions,ignore the above.

CO.(WATP).

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SeniorPosted on12:35 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Arabest1.

I never said Lunny had anything to do with the POTY nominations.

If there is a classier defender in Scottish football at the moment better than Mulgrew then I’ll eat my hat. Foster might have dipped a bit but, on balance, for him to get into the English squad must certainly have put him on the short list for POTY nomination.
Regarding N Lennons attempts at using this as a motivation for his team, all I can say it ain’t working – look at yesterdays display. BTW well done Motherwell.

I am disappointed you chose to use the following to make your point, :
“or is he really claiming professional footballers in Scotland are delivering a metaphorical ‘Presbyterian slap’ to his players?” –

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zerotolerance1903Posted on12:38 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Long Time Lurker says:

Monday, April 29, 2013 at 12:06

RhebelRhebel‏@RhebelRhebel
Sevco’s audited accounts due to the @ScottishFA tomorrow, will clear up the mystery of the £22m in the bank. http://tinyurl.com/cwuajv9 See 8.11

Ah, the accounts…
____________________________________________________

I know you’re quoting from elswhere but as already posted nothing will be cleared up tomorrow. 30th April deadline is for (non-SPL) Clubs to file their 2012 accounts.

As TRFC we’re only incorporated in May 2012 they will have no 2012 accounts so have nothing to file tomorrow and have no requirement to submit anything.

This is one occassion where they are not breaking the rules.

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bangordubPosted on12:44 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Alex Thompson seems to be having telephonic difficulties: From his twitter feed……

“Imran Ahmad’s mobile has been disconnected – funny that.”

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on12:46 pm - Apr 29, 2013


ecobhoy says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 12:3

Re Green and Ahmad walking away money:

RFCL employed Charles Green as Chief Executive of RFCL for an annual salary of
£360,000 per annum (plus benefits and expenses including accommodation costs). The agreement is terminable by RFCL either for cause or on 6 month’s notice and by Mr Green on 3 months’ notice.

However on flotation this changed as did the employing company to:

The agreement is terminable by the Company (RIFC Plc) either for cause or on 12 month’s notice and by Mr Green on 3 months’ notice.

So the notice period from the company doubled for Green just as it did for Stockbridge.
Ahmad’s agreement is terminable by RFCL for cause or on 12 months’ notice and by
Mr Ahmad on 3 months’ notice.

All of the RIFC Plc NEDS are terminable with 1 month’s notice from either side and its interesting to note that this applies to Murray as well although earlier with TRFC the notice period was 6 months from either side.
=============================================
Also worth noting that Green/Stockbridge earned a bonus equal to a years salary for winning Div3.If I recall correctly this was originally to be paid if TRFC won promotion.When reconstruction reared its ugly head terms were quickly changed from promotion to div 2 to winning of Div3.
Also,is it fair that 2 directors should get massive win bonuses when the prospectus states that the Manager gets a bonus when TRFC qualify for the Champions League 😆

To summarise:
Green has been paid a yeas salary..£360k
Win bonus………………………………….£360k
Termination(12 months salary)………£360k

Plus 5m shares for nowt!.

Not bad for a years work and he and his pals still basically control the business.
I’m in the wrong line of work.

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paulmac2Posted on12:48 pm - Apr 29, 2013


2 things….

It never fails to amaze me that anyone still expects the SFA to do the right thing?

They have ignored the rules…changed the rules…bent the rules…invented some rules…all to assist and benefit ONE club…

They are a disgrace….they don’t care that we think they are a disgrace…they don’t care that the internat bampots can detail in all their glory where the SFA have cheated Scottish football to serve the demands of ONE club…

No sireee…the SFA have passed the point of caring whether anyone or everyone knows about their corrupt and dishonest methods…because as the past 2 years tells them….there is nothing anyone can do it about it…and now they realise this…the monster will continue to grow arms and legs..

Secondly….

I am led to believe a certain Mr. CW is in Scotland this week….wonder why?…more revelations maybe?

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Galling fiverPosted on12:50 pm - Apr 29, 2013


How very dare they, I assume there are some numbers on the back of 10 regal on the way to HQ Hampden. Why would they bother letting that out if they thought it was a problem, move along.

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bluPosted on12:52 pm - Apr 29, 2013


madbhoy24941 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 12:13
=======================================
Ah, a bit of objectivity – thumbs up from me. Agree with the views on POTY but I’d go for Adams at Ross County as MOTY for making the top six, but especially for the good work (including player additions) since the winter break. Celtic have built up some good european experience and resilience prior to this year’s great efforts, which gave them a base to work from but Ross County have never been in the SPL before.

Even being a non-sweary person Adams is also a candidate along with Neil Lennon and David Brent for nippiest manager of the season.

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ianjsPosted on1:20 pm - Apr 29, 2013


paulmac2 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 12:48
I am led to believe a certain Mr. CW is in Scotland this week….wonder why?…more revelations maybe?

Random Thoughts Re Scots Law by Paul McConville

SFA v Craig Whyte Calls At Glasgow Sheriff Court This Week (On Conference Call)

In voice only?

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angus1983Posted on1:24 pm - Apr 29, 2013


I’d have to agree that either Butcher (my choice) or Adams deserve MOTY, simply given their teams’ overall performances this year in relation to the resources at their disposal.

Yes, beating Barcelona was a mighty achievement – and it must’ve been a great night out at Parkhead – but last week’s CL semi-final results maybe put a little perspective on that.

Howeve, i have little doubt that Mr Lennon will bag the trophy. Can you imagine the greeting if he doesn’t? 🙂

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PhilMacGiollaBhainPosted on1:30 pm - Apr 29, 2013


@Auldheid You are entirely correct about the SFA and their failure to respond to questions on this matter. Very strange. Must chase them up.

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jockybhoyPosted on1:32 pm - Apr 29, 2013


The agreement is terminable by the Company (RIFC Plc) either for cause or on 12 month’s notice and by Mr Green on 3 months’ notice

So if Green resigns, he gets £90k but if he’s terminated, he gets £360k? If he is fired for conduct unbecoming, perhaps uttering a racial term in an interview, he gets an extra £1/4m?

AM I reading that wrong? Will be interesting to see the next (first) accounts…

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jimlarkinPosted on1:35 pm - Apr 29, 2013


http://www.dothebouncy.com/news/the-stark-contrast-scotland-wants-rangers-to-die/

i did last year and hey, what a party.

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AuldheidPosted on1:43 pm - Apr 29, 2013


jerfeelgood says:

Monday, April 29, 2013 at 12:14

That about sums it up although the degree of discretion under National Club Licensing in the event of non compliance is a lot wider than the UEFA FFP standard that all SPL clubs are subject to. I say standard to make the distinction between what UEFA are prepared to tolerate in terms of risks to UEFA tournaments of a club going belly up during such a tournament and what the SFA are prepared to tolerate in the same respect. In short if a club fails to comply on financial criteria which includes audited accounts or social tax unpaid, or no “going concern” notes to accounts then UEFA will not allow a club to play in their tournament.

Thus when Rangers failed, UEFA ruled them out of UEFA tournaments for not having audited accounts (and unpaid social tax – the wee tax bill) to submit and ruled out The Rangers because
Article 12 – Definition of licence applicant
” 1 A licence applicant may only be a football club, i.e. a legal entity fully responsible
for a football team participating in national and international competitions which
either:
a) is a registered member of a UEFA member association and/or its affiliated
league (hereinafter: registered member); or
b) has a contractual relationship with a registered member (hereinafter: football
company).

2 The membership and the contractual relationship (if any) must have lasted – at
the start of the licence season – for at least three consecutive years. Any
alteration to the club’s legal form or company structure (including, for example,
changing its headquarters, name or club colours, or transferring stakeholdings
between different clubs) during this period in order to facilitate its qualification on
sporting merit and/or its receipt of a licence to the detriment of the integrity of a
competition is deemed as an interruption of membership or contractual
relationship (if any) within the meaning of this provision.”

(Note that there is no three years accounts requirement here only continued membership of the same LEGAL entity of the SFA)

The SFA obviously were prepared to ignore UEFA standard licensing under the 5 way agreement to get The Rangers into the SPL, but even had The Rangers been able to join the SPL, UEFA would still have refused entry to UEFA tournaments on their new entity/non transfer of UEFA licence rule (to circumvent new entities risk doing to UEFA tournaments what the SFA were prepared to tolerate under the 5 way agreement )

(Article 14 – Licence
1 Clubs which qualify for the UEFA club competitions on sporting merit or through
the UEFA fair play rankings must obtain a licence issued by their licensor
according to the national licensing regulations, except where Article 15 applies.
2 A licence expires without prior notice at the end of the season for which it was
issued
3 A licence cannot be transferred. )

When The Rangers became an SFL club, National Club licensing applied and as I said this gave the SFA more wriggle room than the UEFA standard rules in terms of what the SFA were prepared to tolerate with a set of rules whose interpretation they are quite happy to change according to prevailing circumstance – witness Bryson’s never before considered construction to LNS on eligibility that protected the SFA from possible compensation claims.

The problem we face is that the principle on which such rules are built is ignored as the SFA does what it can to preserve itself , but one of the principles behind licensing is not just about setting standards, it also contains a risk assessment function in terms of the impact on a tournament and the clubs taking part if a club fails to fulfill its fixtures. Interestingly it is the SFA who have the responsiblity of conducting the licensing process but the clubs who lose out if the SFA fail to carry out their responsibility properly. Nice work if you can get it.

For this reason I suggest (unless it is already part of the process) that clubs ask the SFA for an indemnity against any loss to those clubs should any club granted a licence fail during the course of a season.

Of course when it comes to The Rangers,, clubs in the SFL are going to be asking themselves will we be making more from their admission than we risk losing if they fail and if they think it worth taking the risk of a couple of big gates over any failure before they get a bite at the cherry, then they are likely to take a punt and say nowt. The SFA are therefore more likely to let them place their bets with no comeback on the SFA to let clubs taking the risk get at The Rangers supporters dosh.

This of course provides no assurances or protection to the poor Rangers supporters (I am beginning to feel sorry for the over an emotional barrel position they find themselves in.) that the governing authority is doing nothing to protect them from spivs and charlatans milking our game and The Rangers supporters pockets for all they are worth.

When you have a system where the immediate benefits of doing things wrongly outweigh the long terms costs of doing it properly the result is Scottish football.

PS 8.1.1. Clubs should be aware that this information will be made freely available via the Scottish FA Website.”
This and the exceptional dispensation clause are new and did not appear in last years documents. The former is to protect the SFA from a club telling porkies by making public what the SFA were told, the latter to give the SFA some more wriggle room.

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chipm0nkPosted on1:53 pm - Apr 29, 2013


jimlarkin says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 13:35
0 0 i Rate This

http://www.dothebouncy.com/news/the-stark-contrast-scotland-wants-rangers-to-die/

i did last year and hey, what a party.

=====================

One small point to the author of that, in fact just one word.

When you say

“Scotland has lost sight of its own game. We, the Rangers fans just want to get on with the football. It’s not us who continually bring up the newco situation and transferring of assets from one company to another.”

That’s not really what happened, now is it. There was no “transferring” of assets from one company to another. The assets were sold, as part of the liquidation process.

The impliction in what you write is that there was a new company formed, to replace the old and that the assets were simply transferred twixt one and the other. That is not what happened, not by a long way.

One company died. Another was formed, by different people, with a different board. It was an entirely new entity, and it bought the assets from the old dying company.

Just that one wee word, much as you tried to slip it in, would have changed things. Unfortunately, nothing was “transferred”.

Good try re-writing history though.

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aramintamoobeamqcPosted on1:58 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Rumours on the Twitter of Hearts into Admin today.

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iamacantPosted on2:01 pm - Apr 29, 2013


“It is believed that there have also been heated discussions between SFL chief executive David Longmuir and some Division One club chairmen who believe they are not receiving enough support from their governing body”

Sounds ominous

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22323637

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coineanachantaighePosted on2:04 pm - Apr 29, 2013


jimlarkin says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 13:35
0 3 i
Rate This
http://www.dothebouncy.com/news/the-stark-contrast-scotland-wants-rangers-to-die/

————————————————————————–

Why post (a link to) that rubbish? Only the seriously deluded would accept anything on it and BTW the quick scan I gave it (feel unclean now) suggests that it’s really the “Celtic/Timmy” part of Scotland that wants them to die. That’s another point they’re wrong on.

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coineanachantaighePosted on2:06 pm - Apr 29, 2013


That should be: “suggests they think it’s really …”

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arabest1Posted on2:06 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Senior says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 12:35

Arabest1.

I never said Lunny had anything to do with the POTY nominations.
——————————————————————————————————-

Er……actually you did. You claimed he was using distractions and listed POTY as the 2nd one, as ‘nothing else makes sense’. Really??????? Read Madbhoys post, it makes a load more sense.
——————————————————————————————————————-

If there is a classier defender in Scottish football at the moment better than Mulgrew then I’ll eat my hat. Foster might have dipped a bit but, on balance, for him to get into the English squad must certainly have put him on the short list for POTY nomination.
———————————————————————————————————————–
Mulgrew has had a fine season in a fine side, that’s about all you can say. Not enough of the players who played against him felt he did enough to retain the award. Not many defenders win this award, none have ever won it twice, not Richard Gough, not Paul Hegarty, not Willie Millar not Lorenzo Amoruso, not Paul Elliot……yet it’s some big deal that Mulgrew did not surpass any of these names?…..I think not! Indeed only Larson has won it twice, should Mulgrew really be in that category? Goal Keepers even rarer!
—————————————————————————————————————————-
Regarding N Lennons attempts at using this as a motivation for his team, all I can say it ain’t working – look at yesterdays display. BTW well done Motherwell.
——————————————————————————————————————-

The efficacy of such a tactic is irrelevant, I’m merely speculating.
————————————————————————————

I am disappointed you chose to use the following to make your point, :
“or is he really claiming professional footballers in Scotland are delivering a metaphorical ‘Presbyterian slap’ to his players?” –
——————————————————————————————————————–

Once again, just speculation. Sorry if you’re disappointed, but I think you know what I’m getting at. I’m somewhat surprised that so many supporters of a team who are enjoying such a spell of success are so hosed off about this. Is a possible double and champions league run not enough?…does everyone have to pucker up and kiss yer tail as well? How Govanesque! 🙂 Celtic players have won 13 out of the last 20 POTY awards, and, 8 titles and 9 cups, so far this century ….if Celtic don’t win it, it must be rotten! (nothing else makes sense) when Celtic do win it it’s a victory over the inherent rottenness in Scottish football (nothing else makes sense) talk about circular reasoning!…….it must be so hard when every player in the land plain refuses to appreciate you’re awesomeness! Get over yourself! 😉
———————————————————————————————————————–

madbhoy24941 says:
Would not disagree with anything there, as you say logical, ‘makes sense’!
——————————————————————————————————–

wottpi says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 09:28
We will all get a bit bored and at least two posters will go head to head over something trivial
————————————————————————————————

Spooky wottpi!  But, never fear we’ll soon find common ground again. 😉

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on2:26 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Alasdair Lamont ‏@BBCAlLamont 11m

Stephen Thompson of Dundee U leaves saying clubs are no further forward

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on2:27 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Sheelagh McLaren ‏@sheelaghmclaren 10m
Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson leaves Hampden after Spl meeting at says clubs are no further forward

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iamacantPosted on2:32 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Why don’t the clubs get together and pass a motion of no confidence in the powers that be at Hampden? We need reorganisation there first before the leagues.

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jockybhoyPosted on2:32 pm - Apr 29, 2013


ecobhoy:re Stockbridge

“Stockbridge said Rangers historically had a turnover of about £60m in years when competing in the Champions League – not including merchandising but that when Rangers did its own retail it made £20.5m turnover and £5.6m profit just from merchandising.”

Rangers record (audited) turnover was £65m 2008 wasn’t it? The year in which they particpated in BOTH the Champions League and UEFA Cup – all the way to the final? Not sure you can really legislate for that type of revenue and it is a little disingenuous IMO not to point out that was OlgGers annus mirabilis.

He added: “So, let’s say if we can only do as good as £20m [even] with Mike Ashley as our partner, with Puma and with internet sales, then suddenly we are looking at £80m to £90m turnover.

from Beeb “JJB Sports and Rangers entered a 10-year merchandising contract in 2006, when the Glasgow club received an initial payment of £18m with a guaranteed minimum annual royalty of £3m.” so pro rata the £18m over 10 years and add to the £3m royalty and that’s your £5m “pure” profit. Rangers can add turnover but not profit – especially as they will now have to sign leases, utfit the new stores etc. What’s that old adage, “turnover is for vanity, profit is sanity, cash is reality” !

“Then you look at the additional sponsorship possibilities and think it would be nice to get it to £100m, but even then I wouldn’t think my job would be done at that point, as it could go on beyond that.”
Again it seems like the NewGers feel like the OldGers massively undervalued the sponsorship, which I don’t think is the case, so the idea you can simply knock on a few doors and get an additional £20m+ of sponsorship into one club, playing in Scottish football is, IMO, a tad optimistic.

Trust Mr Stockbridge? Thankfully it’s not my money I’d be trusting him with.

View Comment

scapaflow14Posted on2:49 pm - Apr 29, 2013


iamacant says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 14:32

Look again at the composition of the various boards, and ask yourself who would call such a vote?. Messers Regan, Doncaster, Longmuir and even Ogilvy are all convenient Aunt Sally’s, standing between the boards and the ordure flung by the fans.

There is more chance of my being elected president of the SFA, than there is of any of the Aunt Sallys being dispensed with while they can still form a useful human shield. These guys aren’t the organ grinders. they are just the very well paid monkeys.

View Comment

youtawknabootPosted on2:49 pm - Apr 29, 2013


IMO…the “independant” ?? investigation panel have recently & now finally constructed /discovered & put in place the get out clauses for Sevco/RIFC.They are now telling SFA/SPL how this is to be handled & announced,similar to the propaganda of the LNS & (non)title stripping fiasco.When it is announced Sevco/RIFC will have blamed Green/Whyte/Ahmed all of whom incidently have gone..?& been paid for their troubles.They will have a licence to continue next season..of that you can be certain.

View Comment

torrejohnbhoyPosted on2:59 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Angela Haggerty ‏@AngelaHaggerty 2h
Dave King’s got a lot to say for himself these days #Sevco

Can’t stop laughing Can’t stop laughing ‏@corsica1968 1h
@AngelaHaggerty What’s he saying? Any links?

Angela Haggerty Angela Haggerty ‏@AngelaHaggerty 24m
@corsica1968 Something in The Herald – closed the link now. He’s been getting chatty last wee while.

Can’t stop laughing Can’t stop laughing ‏@corsica1968 5m
@AngelaHaggerty I’m told SFA “do not have any objections” to his return “as a director at Rangers”. Quelle surprise!

View Comment

bawsbustedanathaPosted on3:07 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Is CG still a Director of the newco Security Co. along with Stockbridge?

View Comment

NawlitePosted on3:09 pm - Apr 29, 2013


That piece about Fiorentina being a good example of being accepted as ‘the same club’. In his article he actually says himself that Fiorentina has 2 inception dates – one for the old club and one (2002) for the new club! Isn’t that what we’ve been saying about RFC* all along? What a tw*t!

View Comment

neepheidPosted on3:10 pm - Apr 29, 2013


youtawknaboot says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 14:49

IMO…the “independant” ?? investigation panel have recently & now finally constructed /discovered & put in place the get out clauses for Sevco/RIFC.They are now telling SFA/SPL how this is to be handled & announced,similar to the propaganda of the LNS & (non)title stripping fiasco.When it is announced Sevco/RIFC will have blamed Green/Whyte/Ahmed all of whom incidently have gone..?& been paid for their troubles.They will have a licence to continue next season..of that you can be certain.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A licence will not be a problem, and even if it is, the SFA have discretion, and we all know how that works. Insolvency was the only thing that was going to derail this lot, but now it looks like Dave King is in town with a big bag full of soft loans. And please, no nasty questions about where the money came from. There certainly won’t be any from the SFA.

View Comment

FinlochPosted on3:13 pm - Apr 29, 2013


There is no such thing as a clean, soft loan.

View Comment

jimlarkinPosted on3:41 pm - Apr 29, 2013


http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/?p=692#more-692

a link to the best post for a while.

maybe TSFM should adopt this for the next blog headline ?

View Comment

angus1983Posted on4:02 pm - Apr 29, 2013


nawlite says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 15:09

That piece about Fiorentina being a good example of being accepted as ‘the same club’. In his article he actually says himself that Fiorentina has 2 inception dates – one for the old club and one (2002) for the new club! Isn’t that what we’ve been saying about RFC* all along? What a tw*t!
——

Perhaps a better example of a new club being entirely accepted as the same as the old club is Budapest Honved.

The club went into liquidation following a ginormous tax fiddle, and a new Honved was started. They were immediately allowed to take old Honved’s place in the top league – on condition they accepted responsibility for paying the tax.

The new Honved is seen by everyone in Hungary as the same club it’s always been – even by city rivals MTK, Dozsa and Ferencvaros (all 4 Budapest teams are currently in the top 9 of the league), they kept the original formation date of 1909, and they kept the history.

No-one is in any doubt that it’s a newco running Honved, but neither is anyone in any doubt that it’s still the same football club.

I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, just pointing out a precedent for a club “surviving” a liquidation event pretty much intact.

View Comment

manandboyPosted on4:03 pm - Apr 29, 2013


For the attention of Planet Fitba’, and especially for the SFA & the SPL

For the sake of clarity,

There will be no rest for those at the top of Scottish Football

until the SFA ceases completely to act like the in-house solicitors and guardians of TRFC.

In the meantime, I’ll have a glass of orange juice, please.

View Comment

AuldheidPosted on4:03 pm - Apr 29, 2013


neepheid says:

Monday, April 29, 2013 at 15:10

youtawknaboot says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 14:49

IMO…the “independant” ?? investigation panel have recently & now finally constructed /discovered & put in place the get out clauses for Sevco/RIFC.They are now telling SFA/SPL how this is to be handled & announced,similar to the propaganda of the LNS & (non)title stripping fiasco.When it is announced Sevco/RIFC will have blamed Green/Whyte/Ahmed all of whom incidently have gone..?& been paid for their troubles.They will have a licence to continue next season..of that you can be certain.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A licence will not be a problem, and even if it is, the SFA have discretion, and we all know how that works. Insolvency was the only thing that was going to derail this lot, but now it looks like Dave King is in town with a big bag full of soft loans. And please, no nasty questions about where the money came from. There certainly won’t be any from the SFA.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If I were a supporter of The Rangers I would not be asking Ally McCoist or Walter Smith or anyone connected to Ibrox to assure me that my SB money was not at risk. I would be askinbg the SFA to tell me exactyly what they had been told in the licence application, who told them and what evidence they had been provided with, particularly on existing income/expenditure and where any other future funding might be coming from and how it would be paid for.

Then with more information to go on I might commit to an SB or just decide to pay per game.

View Comment

chipm0nkPosted on4:05 pm - Apr 29, 2013


youtawknaboot says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 14:49

=====================

They will use the specious argument they did when they stole £14m worth of VAT and PAYE etc.

It wasn’t actually Rangers which did that, it was Craig Whyte. Ignoring the fact that the actions of the officers of a body corporate are the actions of the body corporate.

I quote again from the FTT ruling in relation to Falkirk FC

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2012/TC02262.html

“27. The situation is rather different in regard to Mr Craig. Firstly, since he was Managing Director, he was in fact “the Club” and his actions in that role were as the Club. Accordingly, the fact that he did not ensure timeous payment, knowing as he did the problems in the previous year and the availability of TTP would make it very difficult to argue that he was unaware of the potential problems caused by late payment of PAYE. The Tribunal finds no reasonable excuse in his actions.”

View Comment

AuldheidPosted on4:08 pm - Apr 29, 2013


angus1983 says:

Monday, April 29, 2013 at 16:02

Interesting and perhaps the key thing is they did not take that route to dodge the tax due but agreed to pay it.
A bit of a difference from what was being attempted here. Its only £14M tax due as matters stand and a committment to paying that by The Rangers would go a bit of a way to redemption. However there is still the FPP appeal…..

View Comment

Bill1903Posted on4:10 pm - Apr 29, 2013


angus1983 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 13:24
30 50 Rate This
I’d have to agree that either Butcher (my choice) or Adams deserve MOTY, simply given their teams’ overall performances this year in relation to the resources at their disposal.

Yes, beating Barcelona was a mighty achievement – and it must’ve been a great night out at Parkhead – but last week’s CL semi-final results maybe put a little perspective on that.

Howeve, i have little doubt that Mr Lennon will bag the trophy. Can you imagine the greeting if he doesn’t?
————————————————————————————-
😀 😀

View Comment

chipm0nkPosted on4:20 pm - Apr 29, 2013


angus1983 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 16:02

==========================

I ask because I have no idea.

Is the situation with regard the legal status of a limited company the same in Hungary. Does administration and liquidation exist, and do they have the same meaning within that legal system.

The bottom line is that with Rangers the club and the PLC were the same thing, and that entity is being liquidated. However, for the avoidance of doubt, it still exists and could do so for many months and years.

A new company was formed by different people and bought the old one’s assets. It exists at the same time as the original one.

I’m really just asking, would the situation in Hungary be the same. Do things like PLCs actually exist. If so what is their legal status.

View Comment

paulmac2Posted on4:26 pm - Apr 29, 2013


torrejohnbhoy says:

Monday, April 29, 2013 at 14:59
…………………………..

Ah the good old SFA….

Have a read at this about Mr. King….

http://www.moneywebtax.co.za/moneywebtax/view/moneywebtax/en/page259?oid=...

View Comment

bluPosted on4:28 pm - Apr 29, 2013


jimlarkin says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 15:41
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/?p=692#more-692
a link to the best post for a while.
maybe TSFM should adopt this for the next blog headline ?
======================================================
Lots of emotion/anger and I agree with much of it but I think that there are too many leaps of faith and sweeping generalisations as it stands. It’s a frustrated rant but a TSFM edit might turn it into a plausible blog for this site.

The people running Rangers are clearly the culprits in this whole mess and we might all freely lambast Mr Doncaster but I think we should remember that these people (for Ally’s information they’re listed below, no dog whistle required) employ him, and had the power and responsibility to do more. Just one example – non-payment of any bills for a season justified ejection from the league. The ten points deduction on administration kicked in automatically and didn’t require anyone to make a decision. The SPL Board chose not to consider any punishment for the clear decision by Rangers to spend money they didn’t have, a decision by that club that brought the SPL brand into disrepute and endangered the future income of all other members of the SPL. Why no action, why no self-protection?

The current SPL Board is made up of Ralph Topping (SPL Chairman), Neil Doncaster (SPL Chief Executive), Eric Riley (Celtic FC), Stephen Thompson (Dundee United FC), Duncan Fraser (Aberdeen FC) and Michael Johnston (Kilmarnock FC).

View Comment

HirsutePursuitPosted on4:36 pm - Apr 29, 2013


nawlite says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 15:09
0 0 Rate This
That piece about Fiorentina being a good example of being accepted as ‘the same club’. In his article he actually says himself that Fiorentina has 2 inception dates – one for the old club and one (2002) for the new club! Isn’t that what we’ve been saying about RFC* all along? What a tw*t!
===========================
The Federazione Italiana Giuoco Calcio is the SFA’s equivalent in Italy.

Article 52 of their rules describes what they call a “Sports Title”. Essentially, the FIGC organise their members very much like franchise operators. Clubs that are granted a Sports Title are conferred the right to play in the professional leagues – within a specific geographic area.

In Italy, when a professional club is liquidated, an amateur or lower league club from the same area can purchase the vacant sports title from the FIGC and take over the old club’s franchise. If no existing club is willing to buy the franchise a completely new club can be formed to pick up the pieces.

Because of this system, there are several clubs in Italy with particularly confused heritage.

Parma are probably the easiest to understand.

* Verdi FC were founded in 1913 – later changing their name to Parma FC
* In 1968 Parma FC became insolvent and were liquidated
* An existing local club A.C. Parmense took over the vacant “Sports Title” and renamed themselves as Associazione Calcio Parma – but were generally known thereafter simply as Parma.
* In 2002 A.C. Parma themselves became insolvent and were liquidated
* A new club was formed to purchase the Sports Title and called themselves Parma Football Club

Although the new club has only existed for just over 10 years, they optimistically claim the heritage of all of the previous clubs that have held their “Sports Title”.

The SFA have no equivalent to the FIGC’s Article 52. There are no transferable “Sports Titles” for sale in Scottish football.

In Scotland there are just clubs.

View Comment

chipm0nkPosted on4:37 pm - Apr 29, 2013


On manager of the year, I think the main candidates are

Allan Johnston – Queen of the South. Winning the league well and doing the double with the Ramsden’s in an exciting final.

Derek Adams – Ross County. Top 6 place in the season after promotion. Pushing for Europe

Stuart McColl – Motherwell. 2nd Place in the SPL with very limited resources compared to the winners.

Jackie McNamara – Partick Thistle / Dundee Utd. His part in the jags promotion, top 6 for Dundee Utd.

Just my opinion obviously, I am sure others have entirely different views.

View Comment

youcantbuyhistoryPosted on4:47 pm - Apr 29, 2013


It looks like sevco are in trouble trying to keep the ship afloat.now if I owned a bus company why would I buy shares in a sinking liner,maybe the snake oil salesman is trying to take me for a mug and I can’t see it because I only read the local papers,unlikely I would have to have been hypnotised by Chris graham to believe that one,and if so the snake oil salesman may have corked his last bottle.why would I buy 8 percent leading to possibly 29 percent of this leaky liner.has the South African d.k promised to plug the holes or do I see some scrap value.

View Comment

bluPosted on4:49 pm - Apr 29, 2013


chipm0nk says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 16:37
0 0 i
Rate This

On manager of the year, I think the main candidates are

Allan Johnston – Queen of the South. Winning the league well and doing the double with the Ramsden’s in an exciting final.

Derek Adams – Ross County. Top 6 place in the season after promotion. Pushing for Europe

Stuart McColl – Motherwell. 2nd Place in the SPL with very limited resources compared to the winners.

Jackie McNamara – Partick Thistle / Dundee Utd. His part in the jags promotion, top 6 for Dundee Utd.
=================================================================
QOS – the only full time team in SFL 2?
Adams – agree
McCall – didn’t compete with Celtic (Sunday acknowledged) but won their competition for second against clubs with the same or greater resources – job well done.
McNamara – left Archibald to actually get the promotion – both lose out. Dundee United in 6th place isn’t a great achievement – the guy who left could’ve done that.

My four nominees would be Adams, Lennon (N, for Euro performances), Butcher, Lomas all in SPL. Honourable mention to Lennon (D) for cup. SFL 3 winning manager ruled ruled out for same reason as SFL 2, with an even greater imbalance in resources and less than sparkling performances.

View Comment

nowoldandgrumpyPosted on5:20 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Sheelagh McLaren ‏@sheelaghmclaren 40m
Neil Doncaster – clubs reluctantly agreed it’s not realistic to achieve a merger in time for this summer but is a will to explore play offs
Retweeted by John McLean

View Comment

zerotolerance1903Posted on6:00 pm - Apr 29, 2013


chipm0nk says:

Monday, April 29, 2013 at 16:20

angus1983 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 16:02

==========================

I ask because I have no idea.

Is the situation with regard the legal status of a limited company the same in Hungary. Does administration and liquidation exist, and do they have the same meaning within that legal system.

The bottom line is that with Rangers the club and the PLC were the same thing, and that entity is being liquidated. However, for the avoidance of doubt, it still exists and could do so for many months and years.

A new company was formed by different people and bought the old one’s assets. It exists at the same time as the original one.

I’m really just asking, would the situation in Hungary be the same. Do things like PLCs actually exist. If so what is their legal status.
______________________________________________________________

It’s very similar – as it is in most European countries.

There are limited liability companies Korlátolt Felelõsségû Társaság (kft) that are broadly the same as our limited companies and joint stock companies Részvénytársaság (rt) that are broadly the same as plcs.

The nitty gritty rights and responsibilities of shareholders, directors, etc will be slightly different but they’re just variations on a theme as all EU members have to comply with the same set of EU directives.

Countries like Hungary started complying with EU directives in teh mid ’90s as part of EU accession talks.

View Comment

zerotolerance1903Posted on6:02 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Should have added, the Honved situation sounds a lot more like a CVA than a liquidation and newco scenario.

View Comment

StevieBCPosted on7:06 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Extracted from Vanguard Bears site, [won’t post link].
==========================================

Can’t remember if this has been mentioned already, but finally some acknowledgement from a Rangers article that RTC and the Internet Bampots had tried to warn Rangers fans – and when the MSM was generally dragging its feet or wilfully looking the other way.

“…Johnston publicly thanked Martin Bain for his efforts in exposing Whyte after Whyte had unceremoniously canned him.

The thing is, until James Traynor and Keith Jackson at the Daily Record picked up that all was not as it seemed at Ibrox (just days before Rangers went in to Administration) the vehicles that had led the charge against Whyte were the Rangers Tax Case blog, the BBC and Phil Gillivan’s blog…”

View Comment

StevieBCPosted on7:21 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Oops…spoke to soon.
Extracted from latest VB article on Lawwell.
==================================

“…On the pitch Celtic [sic] managed to beat a Barcelona team who were already assured of progress in their UEFA Champions League group, while playing the same type of football their fans slaughtered Rangers for using only a few years ago on their run to the UEFA cup final in Manchester…”

[Me] Regardless of tactics used, who could begrudge ANY team in Europe beating the mighty Barca ?

“…That same team who beat Barcelona, lost in the semi-final of the league cup to a group of players on a tenth of the wages that Celtic pay their players, and have dropped points in the league at what would have been an alarming rate had they had any credible opposition…”

[Me] Couple of perfectly reasonable queries raised there…but ‘glass houses’ and all that ?

TRFC fans don’t do irony either. 🙄

View Comment

scapaflow14Posted on7:22 pm - Apr 29, 2013


“TheTributeAct ‏@TheTributeAct 4m
Ibrox deeds link. Use download feature and zoom in. http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a623/TheTributeAct/Ibrox_zps19ad2a9e.png
Looks real to me.”

Download the pic and open in something with a zoom function

View Comment

twopandaPosted on7:41 pm - Apr 29, 2013


No official announcement from the hermetic bunker re: Master Imran then?

View Comment

Danish PastryPosted on8:09 pm - Apr 29, 2013


scapaflow14 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 19:22
1 0 Rate This

“TheTributeAct ‏@TheTributeAct 4m
Ibrox deeds link. Use download feature and zoom in. http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a623/TheTributeAct/Ibrox_zps19ad2a9e.png
Looks real to me.”

Download the pic and open in something with a zoom function
——–

I was wondering about the ‘Quick Copy’ statement. What more is included in the official version? Is there a difference?

View Comment

chipm0nkPosted on8:58 pm - Apr 29, 2013


zerotolerance1903 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 18:00

=========================

Thanks for that.

Every day is, as they say, a school day.

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on9:19 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Seems like there has been a bit of bovver at the U17s game this evening.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GregorWaugh/status/328959070520356864/photo/1

I just don’t get it. A youth football match for heavens sake. 🙁

No wonder fans of diddy clubs increasingly stay away when RFC or CFC are in town.

View Comment

smartbhoyPosted on9:28 pm - Apr 29, 2013


easyJambo says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 21:19
_________________________________

That photo is doing the rounds on Twitter. It’s a fake Celtic account that started the rumour about them being ripped up and thrown.

People at the match said the seats had been moved there by the stewards after 3 of them had been broken by fans standing on them..

Alleged first hand accounts state, Rangers fans fighting with the Police outside, flares being thrown onto the pitch from Rangers fans ( I saw photos on Twitter of Flares from the Rangers fans but not them being thrown) behind the goals and both sets of fans embarrassing themselves by breaking into their usual party tunes.

As a Celtic fan, do I miss these sort of games, do I hell.

View Comment

Madbhoy24941Posted on9:30 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Glass houses EJ…. Some of the worse experiences I’ve had were in Edinburgh at both big clubs.

But your point is valid, if as it seems, it’s an absolute disgrace and they should all be locked up like any other despicable violent criminal.

View Comment

upthehoopsPosted on9:31 pm - Apr 29, 2013


I listened with interest on Sportsound tonight as Graham Spiers subjected Mark McGhee to some pleasant mannered scrutiny over the so far dismal showing of Scotland under the new regime. I have no issue at all with that and McGhee answered every point in an equally pleasant and eloquent manner. What I do have an issue with is people like Spiers not being willing to subject Walter and Ally to even pleasant mannered scrutiny over what they know about Ibrox goings on, or (in Ally’s case) why so much money has been wasted on such relatively poor showings on the pitch.

Why do so many mainstream writers refuse point blank to even countenance an awkward question to those ‘traditional’ Rangers men who might hold interesting answers?

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on9:39 pm - Apr 29, 2013


madbhoy24941 says: Monday, April 29, 2013 at 21:30

It has hee-haw to do with glass houses MB.

This was a game that is supposed to promote what it good about youth football in Scotland, but it seems that the yobs can’t drag themselves away from the hatred and just watch a f***ing game of talented 16/17 year olds who are trying to make their first steps into the professional game.

View Comment

chipm0nkPosted on9:52 pm - Apr 29, 2013


easyJambo says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 21:19

No wonder fans of diddy clubs increasingly stay away when RFC or CFC are in town.

=========================

I feel the same about Rangers or Hearts fans.

A very unsavoury mob.

View Comment

Bill1903Posted on10:07 pm - Apr 29, 2013


It wasn’t us mister a big boy done it and ran away

^
This will be the party line tonight

Scotland’s shame right enough

View Comment

Madbhoy24941Posted on10:19 pm - Apr 29, 2013


easyJambo says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 21:39
—————————————–

I took your point and fully appreciate your disgust; I agreed that it is a disgrace. No excuses, no diluting of the issue. Any Celtic fan taking part in any disturbances this evening should be dealt with in the most severe manner, full stop!

My point was not relating specifically to this issue, your comment implied that Celtic fans cause trouble at all the away games, “that is why more and more people stay away”. Well that is a blatant generalization and even if it comes across as whataboutery, I will defend that as if not, it will be deemed acceptable and it’s not.

So don’t confuse my comment with defending the agitators, I was actually defending myself and I make no apologies for that.

View Comment

mirrenmanPosted on10:21 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Tonight’s youth game

…….you’re doing a great job

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/290413-Glasgow-Cup-Final/G0000fjxh69qmFbU/I0000Yv0xpT0obmA/C0000qJMjARBFTPU

makes you sick

View Comment

Bill1903Posted on10:28 pm - Apr 29, 2013


mirrenman says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 22:21
2 0 Rate This
Tonight’s youth game

…….you’re doing a great job

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/290413-Glasgow-Cup-Final/G0000fjxh69qmFbU/I0000Yv0xpT0obmA/C0000qJMjARBFTPU

makes you sick

—————————————————-

Agreed
Sickening in the extreme
Im sure Walter whispered in Ogalvies ear at some point ‘everything’s going to plan pal,keep up the good work’

View Comment

StevieBCPosted on10:35 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Call me old fashioned, but if I was the ‘heavily conflicted’, [wrt TRFC], Ogilvie – the last thing I would want is to be seen in public with anyone connected to the TRFC hierarchy.

That photo showing ‘Walter’ giving Ogilvie a warm handshake might be totally innocent – but perception is everything.

IMO, it’s either Ogilvie continues to display extremely poor judgement – or he is just arrogant to the point that he just doesn’t give a monkey’s what Scottish football fans think about him.

Not sure which applies.

View Comment

arabest1Posted on10:41 pm - Apr 29, 2013


bill1903 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 22:28

0

0

Rate This

mirrenman says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 22:21
2 0 Rate This
Tonight’s youth game

…….you’re doing a great job

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/290413-Glasgow-Cup-Final/G0000fjxh69qmFbU/I0000Yv0xpT0obmA/C0000qJMjARBFTPU

makes you sick

—————————————————-

Agreed
Sickening in the extreme
Im sure Walter whispered in Ogalvies ear at some point ‘everything’s going to plan pal,keep up the good work’
———————————————————————————————

As a kind of a group hug to bring us all together….can we have a caption competition?….can we?

View Comment

arabest1Posted on10:46 pm - Apr 29, 2013


I’ll start;

CO- ya crafty devil…no-one ever found out about your envelopes!

View Comment

Madbhoy24941Posted on10:48 pm - Apr 29, 2013


I think the photo of Smith and Ogilvie could be misread, it is easy to see it as being something it is not (I am not saying there is nothing to it..).

– Ogilvie is one of the top men at The SFA so I would expect him to be at the game.
– He would normally be sitting with the other officials, of which, Smith is one of them.
– He is an old colleague and personal friend to Smith so I would fully expect him to say hello.

I think he should have left his post a long time ago but he is still there and should be able to attend a cup final in Scotland, if he did not, I would actually question why he is involved in football at all.

My question is not that they shook hands, it is “why that photo”? Is someone trying to make a point? I am sure there were many officials meeting and shaking hands, why publish that one when you know it will lead to questions?

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on10:48 pm - Apr 29, 2013


madbhoy24941 says: Monday, April 29, 2013 at 22:19

I accept your comment MB.

However, my concern is that the yobs sought to use a youth cup tie as an excuse to spout their bile at one another. The same bile that is most definitely a factor in falling crowds in recent years at provincial grounds when visited by Celtic or Rangers.

I watch a lot of pro-youth football, purely out of enjoyment of watching youngsters develop. I have probably watched upwards of 90 games this season from U11 to U20 and haven’t witnessed any bother whatsoever, which is the way it should be.

There is an U20 game at Hampden on Wednesday night between Celtic and Dunfermline which should be all about the best that youth football can offer. Let’s hope that both sets of fans can appreciate good football without any of the unpalatable elements that still undermine senior football.

I will also be at Firhill on Saturday morning to watch Celtic U20s play Hearts U20s which I hope will also be a good advert for the game.

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Madbhoy24941Posted on10:51 pm - Apr 29, 2013


easyJambo says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 22:48
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Point taken and agreed!

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angus1983Posted on11:02 pm - Apr 29, 2013


Auldheid (@Auldheid) says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 16:08

A bit of a difference from what was being attempted here. Its only £14M tax due as matters stand
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Very true. I’m sure people would have looked much more favourably on Rangers if they’d thought to pay, or at least make a significant contribution towards, the old company’s tax debt. They claim to have easily enough cash at hand to cover the whole amount.

As for Honved, I can’t quite figure out whether they paid off the old company’s tax debt, or just some “football-related” debts (which sounds a lot more similar to what Rangers agreed).

Meanwhile, silly red card for a Honved player at the weekend. Arguing too much about who should take a penalty! :).

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/crazy-red-card-davide-lanzafame-honved-sent-off-for-arguing-with-team-mate-over-penalty/

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chipm0nkPosted on11:14 pm - Apr 29, 2013


I think that is what really hacks people off most about the Rangers position, or rather double position.

If we want then we are an entirely new club, and anyone we owe money to can whistle for it. Whether that be the Government, suppliers, people we have borrowed money from, we don’t care. We are nodebt free.

However if we feel like it then we will also claim to be the same club, with the same history, same records, same honours.

I recall from RTC days that the majority of people were of the opinion, it can be one or the other, just choose. You cannot however have it both ways.

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