Good Evening.
When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.
It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.
However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.
Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.
Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.
Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.
Job done so to speak.
Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.
Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.
Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.
No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.
Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.
In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.
As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.
Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.
Ever!
It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.
All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.
The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!
All to suit one man!
Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?
Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.
Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.
Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.
With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.
Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?
At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.
It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.
What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.
This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.
It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.
Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.
It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.
All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.
Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.
Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.
Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.
Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?
Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.
Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.
It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor! There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.
upthehoops says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 21:31
I listened with interest on Sportsound tonight as Graham Spiers subjected Mark McGhee to some pleasant mannered scrutiny over the so far dismal showing of Scotland under the new regime. I have no issue at all with that and McGhee answered every point in an equally pleasant and eloquent manner. What I do have an issue with is people like Spiers not being willing to subject Walter and Ally to even pleasant mannered scrutiny over what they know about Ibrox goings on, or (in Ally’s case) why so much money has been wasted on such relatively poor showings on the pitch.
Why do so many mainstream writers refuse point blank to even countenance an awkward question to those ‘traditional’ Rangers men who might hold interesting answers?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Is the problem not that, unlike McGhee and Bomber, McCoist and Smith are too afraid to have an open interview with Spiers or English, or anyone lese for that matter.
Therefore even if they wanted to ask difficult questions these cowards would never give the interview on that basis in the first place.
I believe that in the past Celtic – Rangers youth games have passed incident free. But we now have them (or a new form in one case) separated by several leagues and what tonight’s happenings have shown that an element of the supports really misses – not the football though – the Old Firm clashes. I wonder if Green’s nonsense in stirring the bogitry pot may have contributed in some small way to the intensity such an otherwise minor occasion could have expected.
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/49209790352/the-deid-and-their-deeds
On the deeds and how they could have come to be under Sevco Scotland rather than Sevco 5088.
Right A££y, big day tomorrow; an important meeting with your new squeeze and CEO Craig Mather. I’m sure any folk lingering on the marble staircase will no doubt hear the echoes of; ooh! the fans, ooh! our fans are legend, och! they just deserve honesty and transparency – and then Craig himself will be hearing “how about a raise on my SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND POUNDS A YEAR contract for winning the SFL3?”
If negotiations do get get sticky on your wage demand, or the further 10 million you think you need to win SFL2 – I have a suggestion for a slightly unorthodox revenue stream to bolster those Ibrox coffers, that was surprisingly overlooked by your last CEO.
The Rangers and Scientology!
A marriage made in … well Govan! A bringing together of two groups of unquestioning and devoted followers, of similarly maligned ministries – combining to make an even bigger group of unquestioning and much maligned followers. It’s a thought provoking plan, that could have been lifted directly from Sir DM’s book of big plans … the loyal Orange Corps and Scientology’s elite Sea Orgs marching together in song, preaching WATP and Self-Help to 500,000 Gers fans world-wide, David Miscavige would gladly pay big bucks to have a crack at converting those type of numbers.
The fans themselves would not be forgotten; a central belief in Scientology is a willingness to take care of its own; supporters willing to sign up to the new L. RonGers season tickets would be eligible for immediate (discounted) dianetic auditing – before, during and even after games. Also subsidised family holidays to Clearwater, Florida, would be on offer, for a bit of communal indoctrination, sorry relaxation in the Super Power Building complex. With Scientology being the team’s premier sponsor; immediate entry into the Galactic Confederacy, (a sort of interplanetary Champions League) would be guaranteed, subject to SFA approval of course. And any fan wearing an orange strip to matches, would be given the opportunity to advance straight to Thetan level 3, where they could sit with Xenu himself, Campbell Ogilvie and maybe even get a wee peek at that most secret of writings; the five-way agreement.
What! you think that’s a load of cr#p? Well from my perspective, there is not much difference between my nonsense and the dark, self-serving tosh, you’ve been delivering incessantly to The Rangers fans since the day Craig Whyte walked through the Ibrox doors. And when you next see the Bears, remember to tell them (again), that they are the best fans in the world, for I’m certain that by tomorrow evening, you will have reminded Mr Mather, on whose word season tickets sell.
(Apologies to any Scientologist offended by the puns)
stmungo69 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 23:48
🙂
Good – but I think the Rosicrucians may be a better fit, they believe in re-incarnation, amongst other tenets. 🙂
The kiss of death was administered today
SPL clubs tacitly acknowledged that shoehorning TRFC into SPL2 wasn’t going to happen next season
The implications are massive
No sizeable hike in the ST charges for next season
No chance whatsoever of getting to summer 2014 without massive cost cuts
A very real danger that the Spivs who haven’t yet paid for their RIFC shares will walk away
Oblivion beckons in 2014
Right in the middle of the referendum campaign
,,,,,,,,,
It`s all bubbling up nicely for The Big Fish
Restoring a national treasure to its rightful place in society is the very least people can expect
from an independent Scotland
Providing they vote for it
Richard Wilson (@timomouse) says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 23:38
4 0 Rate This
http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/49209790352/the-deid-and-their-deeds
On the deeds and how they could have come to be under Sevco Scotland rather than Sevco 5088.
_____
Not sure this holds water. The details of the agreement itself can remain confidential, however the principle of the sale has to be made know to the creditors and effectively changing the buyer is a big enough caveat to require a failure notification and another proposal.
Even if the plan was to re-write the the fine print to include “Sevco – or it’s successor”, it would have to provide data on the successor company, either to the same degree as with 5088, or at least to specify that it was identical in every way to the previous company, except it was registered in Scotland. Of course CW’s involvement in one but not the other would mean that would be totally untrue.
More likely, TRangers will find a way to demonstrate the deeds went through 5088 by way of it being a subsidiary and rely on the Scottish “justice” system to find a way of denying Whyte’s involvement with 5088 for them.
arabest1 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 22:41
As a kind of a group hug to bring us all together….can we have a caption competition?….can we?
===============================================
WS : “Hey Campbell – heard you had a great night out, stick it oot, we’ll have a few more”
bayviewgold
At £96k for each night out [copy right aknowleged Chick Young] its no real surprise CO is not seen out much,I wonder if he cashed some shares in for this night out,check the market in the morning.
question for some ,you dont think Charles and Imrahn would have bought 3rd party shares also through ,well a 3rd party,just saying.Would keep a trickle of funds comming in when needed .
yourhavingalaugh says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 02:02
question for some ,you dont think Charles and Imrahn would have bought 3rd party shares also through ,well a 3rd party,
————————
As many better than me have pointed out here – the “institutional investors” probably hide a lot of weel kent names. because other than the likely suspects (“rangers men”) any investors in this offering should be in an institution.
Just my opinion – as the saying goes, shares can go up or down in value etc etc 🙂
From KDS:
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11679024&t=8719788
An interesting introduction to a Mr Brian Stockbridge, from August 2012.
I love this internetbampottery 🙂
Regarding Ticketus suing CW for £18m and winning ,does any of our finance sleuths know if they are now vigorously pursuing him for this or have they adopted a softly softly approach .
One may have expected immediate requests for all his assets (stop laughing at the back )to be frozen , the furniture of the castle to be chalked or the roller impounded .
Imagine if a court case was taken on to dupe the gullible into thinking a certain company was pursuing a certain person for monies due whilst they were getting their dues already from one of his ex companies .
Wonder when Sally will get the nod to give the gullible the thumbs up to part with their hard earned for their STs .
As soon as everything is Ticketyboo no doubt
wottpi says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 23:18
upthehoops says:
Is the problem not that, unlike McGhee and Bomber, McCoist and Smith are too afraid to have an open interview with Spiers or English, or anyone lese for that matter.
Therefore even if they wanted to ask difficult questions these cowards would never give the interview on that basis in the first place.
=============================================
The problem, in my opinion, is that too many in the media believe Smith, McCoist, and others of their ilk to be beyond reproach, and Graham Spiers has made it abundantly clear he is one of them. Tom English may subject them to scrutiny if allowed I guess, but the majority of the Scottish media are clearly of Spiers view.
The whole situation reminds me of years ago when a colleague who was a prominent Freemason told me it ‘is impossible’ for a Freemason to lie, and therefore he believed every word spoken to him by a fellow Freemason. Some of you on here will no doubt think I am linking the two situations directly, but all I’m doing is asking the question of what people like Smith and McCoist would actually have to do to be subjected to even mild scrutiny?
jonnyod says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 07:01
0 0 Rate This
Regarding Ticketus suing CW for £18m and winning ,does any of our finance sleuths know if they are now vigorously pursuing him for this or have they adopted a softly softly approach
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think he appealed jonny
yourhavingalaugh says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 02:02
question for some ,you dont think Charles and Imrahn would have bought 3rd party shares also through ,well a 3rd party,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Has Charles actually used ANY of his own money during this whole episode?
arabest1 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 22:41
As a kind of a group hug to bring us all together….can we have a caption competition?….can we?
===============================================
WS: Hey, Campbell? Sandy Bryson, hahaha. Pure genius that one!
Scottc
Cheers
Just wondering why anyone would think they could get any money out of CW as he certainly did not seem to have any to put into the purchase ,Oh I forgot the £1 ,wonder who he borrowed that from ?.
Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 06:11
From KDS:
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11679024&t=8719788
An interesting introduction to a Mr Brian Stockbridge, from August 2012.
I love this internetbampottery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, what a tangled web we weave …
The internet is great. There is no hiding place.
Scottc
has anyone put any of their own money into that club in the last 20 or so years ?
My Whyte back at his castle a few days ago. Couldn’t have been just to feed the cat. A new recording? Picking up papers?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ex-rangers-owners-craig-whyte-spotted-1859148
stmungo69 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 23:48
Edgar Blamm on Twitter has had the whole Scientology thing going for about a year!
jonnyod says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 07:29
Scottc
has anyone put any of their own money into that club in the last 20 or so years ?
==============
The only real cash put into this club that has not been borrowed has come from the fans.(even then it may have been borrowed). This club will now be passed from spiv to charlatan for the forseeable future. As each new ‘Saviour’ dissapears over the horizon with their ill begotten gains they will already have lined up the next new ‘Rangers Minded’ owner. Witness what is happening just now and how easy it was for Green and Ahmed to wander off withy nice little pay offs and leave their own man at the healm. This has all been choreographed by a consorteum of spivs all awaiting their turn. Octopus, Ticketus, Zeus all well represented at the top of the pile at Ibrox. But who really holds the power at this shambolic Club? Who really owns all the shares that went to ‘fronting’ companies? There is much still hidden in this charade.Will we ever be allowed to know the truth?
arabest1 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 22:41
As a kind of a group hug to bring us all together….can we have a caption competition?….can we?
——
CO: “Walter ye great eejit! Still not close enough to that second knuckle!! You’ll never get past the Third, ha ha.”
Sad and lamentable images from Firhill last night.There is no place for this sort of behaviour at a sporting occasion.Utterly disgraceful.
At a venue which has just experienced great joy and pride for its club and fans,to have their stadium damaged in this way is truly appalling.
scottc says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 07:28
Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 06:11
From KDS:
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11679024&t=8719788
An interesting introduction to a Mr Brian Stockbridge, from August 2012.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, what a tangled web we weave … The internet is great. There is no hiding place
================================================================
It’s good advice to follow the money but it’s even better advice to follow the people in charge of moving the money.
upthehoops says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 07:21
wottpi says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 23:18
upthehoops says:
Is the problem not that, unlike McGhee and Bomber, McCoist and Smith are too afraid to have an open interview with Spiers or English, or anyone lese for that matter.
Therefore even if they wanted to ask difficult questions these cowards would never give the interview on that basis in the first place.
=============================================
The problem, in my opinion, is that too many in the media believe Smith, McCoist, and others of their ilk to be beyond reproach, and Graham Spiers has made it abundantly clear he is one of them. Tom English may subject them to scrutiny if allowed I guess, but the majority of the Scottish media are clearly of Spiers view.
=======================================================================
I think the poor quality MSM journalists have been well-exposed throughout the Rangers story. But never forget that the real decisions made as to what the journos are doing is made by their editors. At the level this is all being decided the coal-face journos are told by and large what they can do and what they can’t and what is off-limits.
We aren’t talking about a free press with courageous journalists and editors – we are talking largely about a posse of pussy cats who advance by doing favours and not by running brilliant, incisive exposes on the major issues affecting Scotland.
There are some good journos there but in a declining industry they either do as their told or GTF and, like the rest of us, they have families and commitments. It’s easy to decry them but before any one does I would ask you to examine your own life – have you ever walked away from a tough decision requiring a principled stance; stabbed a work colleague in the back or just closed an eye to ripping-off a customer or whatever.
To truly judge other people you have to have walked the walk and not been found wanting. And if you have never been in any of these situations and are much above 25 then it’s to switch your iPod off and open your eyes to what’s actually happening around you.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/lee-mcculloch-craig-whyte-kept-400-000-from-us-1-2913859
– FFS, the scotsman still selling the myth that sevco got relegated !!
– and on the post about people who have put their “own money” into rangers
[jonnyod says: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 07:29
Scottc
has anyone put any of their own money into that club in the last 20 or so years ?]
I HAVE…sort of…by way of PAYING MY TAX !!
madbhoy24941 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 22:48
I think the photo of Smith and Ogilvie could be misread, it is easy to see it as being something it is not (I am not saying there is nothing to it..).
My question is not that they shook hands, it is “why that photo”? Is someone trying to make a point? I am sure there were many officials meeting and shaking hands, why publish that one when you know it will lead to questions?
========================================================================
Well if you use the pic you don’t need to actually question why CO is still there or whether WS is going to walk.
But what you do manage is to give a signal to one side that Rangers are well-quoted at the top and to the other side they take exactly the same message. The reactions of both sides and the explanation they arrive at will be quite different but I suggest the message really is the same.
So it’s an easy one for MSM – a talking point for both sets of fans.
Noted the following exchange between “Blue Nosed Babe”, currently being sniffed out as a possible Police officer posting on RM, and a lovely chap responding to her repeated exhortations to people to be careful that what they post cannot be construed as “threatening” …
—
Christchurch Rangers, Posted Today, 03:17 AM
[Blue Nosed Babe, on 30 April 2013 – 12:51 AM, said:
Consider it a friendly piece of advice, be careful what you type on forums etc cause what you mean is not necessarily what is interpreted by the recipient.]
I’m going to blow you up you fenian bastards
I need gumboots cos im up to my knees in fenian blood
The pope is a kiddy fiddler
the famine is over so why dont you go home
Smash the IRA
ooops my bad off to the naughty chair i go
—
Seriously. Is it not time the authorities closed down Rangers Media. The “banter” stinks.
Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 06:11
From the article concerning Mr. Stockbridges Bearsden residence LTL, this phrase caught my eye.
“A house that had been put on the market only weeks earlier by a gentleman of Asian descent who had previously registered a now-dissolved beauty business to the same address.”
A very speculative observation but I recall during posters enquiries into the ‘crossbar challenge’ that one of the companies supposedly behind it shared an address with a beauty consultant in Ayrshire.
Whats that advertising slogan? “Because you’re worth it”
ecobhoy says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 09:39
Take your point but guys like Spiers and English are big boys. In fact is Spiers not freelance?. So he isn’t under the control of any editor although, depending on who his hiring him he might have to tone down his comments to get paid. Either that or he is voicing his own opinions and agenda.
Whether they speak up or not or feed their families is not our problem. That is the game they have entered. If they are disillusioned with the journalism then they can take an alternative career path, as did Jim Traynor. It won’t be long before they don’t have a job anyway the way newspaper sales are going.
The whole Rangers episode (along with other issues) has shown that the printed media are now getting swamped by what is coming from blogs and forum. With regard to the Rangers story I have read more well written and entertaining pieces on the web than I have in the printed press. Yes there are some conspiracy stories and guesswork but in amongst it all there are gems of truth that the MSM have missed or ignored.
A dedicated and possibly obsessed amateur can spend a lot more time researching a subject and get better results than some youngster who is told to write a piece one day and then leave it in favour of rescuing kittens from a tree.
As I said the other day following the online debate held by Tom English, that just showed that even Tom, as one of the better journalists, is no better informed than people on this site.
Therefore what do they have to offer us, other than they are the ones with the supposive ‘inside track’ and who have the most chance (apart form Tommy the Taxi Driver) to face to face contact with the main players both in the clubs and the authorities?
If those in the MSM cannot gain access to one to one interviews then they are just in the same boat as the rest of us – therefore what is the point of their existence?
jimlarkin says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 09:45
The main thing that struck me with regard to McCulloch’s gripes was the fact you would have thought someone on circa £15k a week could buy their own papers 🙂
I notice he wasn’t the first person running down to the poor newsagent to settle the bill when he realised the club weren’t honouring their bills.
FUD!!
Jig? What a hoot! Can you picture the millionaire Rangers squad asking Ally about the coffee machines being lifted by Klix, and the peppers being stopped……..the newsagent pulling ra peppers!………oh my sides! Reminds me of the day the Audi garage arrived for the club cars, driven away in convoy….Glasgow Rangers… more than a club………. its a circus! And more to come…………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4RHZ1ssCBA
From the Lee McCulloch interview:
———————————————
“I made my way over. Hartley was standing beside Gordon Strachan. I challenged Hartley to a fight. I said , ‘Come on, right here and now. Let’s get it on. Down the tunnel, wherever you like.’
“Strachan stared at me in disbelief. Hartley was stunned. A few Celtic players pushed me away from him.”
———————————————
Are we to believe that this was not known by anyone in the media? Is this not a matter of public interest? Is this another instance of Rangers being treated differently from other clubs?
WOT! – No free coffee & papers!
The poor lambs – `suffered and punished enough`- spiv cruelty that is – that CW indeed! – tut
The `Cleansing` is going jolly well – don’t you think? 😉
madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 11:00
From the Lee McCulloch interview:
———————————————
“I made my way over. Hartley was standing beside Gordon Strachan. I challenged Hartley to a fight. I said , ‘Come on, right here and now. Let’s get it on. Down the tunnel, wherever you like.’
“Strachan stared at me in disbelief. Hartley was stunned. A few Celtic players pushed me away from him.”
———————————————
Are we to believe that this was not known by anyone in the media? Is this not a matter of public interest? Is this another instance of Rangers being treated differently from other clubs?
==========================================================================
So, what exactly is to be reported? Idiot bears a grudge for 11 months, is a sore loser, makes a lot of noise and does nothing except make himself look stupid to new best friend Paul Hartley. Winning team celebrate and take no notice. Pathetic account appears in crap book serialisation in crap redtop. Otherwise sensible poster links previous to MSM pandering to Rangers.
Somebody call the law, quick.
jonnyod says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 07:29
has anyone put any of their own money into that club in the last 20 or so years ?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes. Hundreds of ordinary The Rangers fans who are being ripped off. I’m angry on their behalf.
madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 11:00
Unless Lee McCulloch has any pearls of wisdom on the current Ibrox crisis, he has nothing to say that is a matter of public interest. It is a non-story about a grown man acting like a wee boy.
Has anyone read Scott McDermott’s report on last night’s carnage in the record? It is quite unbelievable. Here is the best bit, my capitals – “At times it was intimidating and shamefully this was no place for youngsters coming to watch their team in a “friendly” environment. The loutish behaviour and sectarian undercurrent hasn’t gone away in the last year. But in a domestic campaign which has failed to get out of second gear, THIS WAS A SHARP REMINDER OF WHY THE OLD FIRM HAVE TO BE THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND OUR GAME”.
He should be sacked today.
madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 11:00
From the Lee McCulloch interview:
———————————————
“I made my way over. Hartley was standing beside Gordon Strachan. I challenged Hartley to a fight. I said , ‘Come on, right here and now. Let’s get it on. Down the tunnel, wherever you like.’
“Strachan stared at me in disbelief. Hartley was stunned. A few Celtic players pushed me away from him.”
———————————————
Are we to believe that this was not known by anyone in the media? Is this not a matter of public interest? Is this another instance of Rangers being treated differently from other clubs?
__________________________________________________________________
Were there two smaller players in Scottish football at the time? Big Lee is well hard.
wottpi says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 10:19
ecobhoy says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 09:39
Take your point but guys like Spiers and English are big boys. In fact is Spiers not freelance?. So he isn’t under the control of any editor although, depending on who his hiring him he might have to tone down his comments to get paid. Either that or he is voicing his own opinions and agenda.
Whether they speak up or not or feed their families is not our problem. That is the game they have entered. If they are disillusioned with the journalism then they can take an alternative career path, as did Jim Traynor. It won’t be long before they don’t have a job anyway the way newspaper sales are going.
==================================================================
I’m not defending journos but just stating how it actually is. Freelance journos mean nothing and these days are paid buttons and glad to at least have that. Anything controversial they write is done with the editor’s nod and when I say ‘controversial’ I don’t mean that dark secrets are revealed but that the fans will get riled and discuss the piece and head for the website and notch-up ad clicks.
You say: ‘Whether they speak up or not or feed their families is not our problem. That is the game they have entered. If they are disillusioned with the journalism then they can take an alternative career path’.
Personally I happen to believe it is our problem when they worry about clinging onto a job because they will do exactly as they are told to do. In the old days if one editor decided that a story didn’t ‘politically’ fit his or his paper’s agenda then a journo would slip the story to a trusted mate in a rival paper and it would run. Now it’s difficult to actually discern agenda differences between even so-called quality and redtops.
Many people become bitterly disillusioned with their job and the vast majority hang-on hoping to get to the ‘pension’ and journos are no different. Only a tiny percentage ever used to be Knights in Shining Armour seeking the truth and now at national SMSM level there might be 2 or 3 and even they are constrained.
And journos know their jobs are going and wages are being slashed – all the more reason for them to hold on as long as possible and not make waves – that’s human nature and many journos have seen the worst of football supporters and couldn’t care less about them or their teams. That is a fact – the ones that do usual have a fairly obvious agenda to all and tend to be sports reporters which may be accidental 🙂
I agree that the internet has provided a platform for some very talented individuals to research things in much more depth than any journalist ever could in the current financial climate where staffs have been cut to the bone. They are under too much pressure to do anything other than cut and paste wire copy in the vast majority of stories. Just look at the stories and it’s obvious they have a common source and that’s where the PR people make their money.
I also think you make a serious mistake by thinking that ‘serious’ journos are not well informed. They are but that knowledge can lead them into dangerous territory in all sorts of ways including from their boss, so often they don’t reveal it. However journos who know each other all know the stories and will swap missing bits because sometimes the only ‘safe’ way to get it run is for 2/3 journos to approach their boss saying they have a story but so does another paper. That gets their ‘boss’ off the hook but they can’t do it too often.
Journos can gain access to just about anyone if they choose to and if they are refused then they submit a list of questions with the warning that if they don’t get them answered then they will run the story on the refusal to answer with the headline: ‘What are you hiding’.
But as I said these decisions aren’t made by journos but editors – that is where the problem lies. And these day I can’t remember the last time I saw it done especially in the Rangers story. All the exclusives have come from people handing it over on a plate like CW.
‘What is the point of their existance?’ Well when everyone on the internet stops reading printed media and media websites and commenting on therm – then there will be no reason. Until then they will create debate which has always been one of the major reasons for their existance.
blu says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 11:37
——————————————–
Stop it Blu, you nearly made me laugh there and I don’t want to be seen to be supporting this type of humour!
The point is that there is a feeling that all things Rangers are reported in a sugar coated manner or not reported at all, this is just another instance of the whole “dignity” thing being shot to pieces. A player challenges another to a fight just as they are waiting on a trophy to be presented, if that was a player from another team against Rangers then you can bet it would be front page news. But then again, if the quote is verbatim, he didn’t curse so must be ok.
Lee McCulloch is certainly coming across as a right arse in this serialisation – admits his behaviour at Wigan latterly was appalling, couldn’t stomach playing for his country because he thought we’d lose and didnae like the manager and now challenging a wee guy to a square go. Simp-Lee the Best? Aye, right!
Green and Ahmed leave Ibrox and the bad news and leaks dry up. Coincidence?
Let’s hope not as I’m totally hooked and need a fix. If I don’t get one soon I will be forced to start a meaningless argument with someone on here about something or other that didn’t previously bother me at all.
bogsdollox – one of the CQN contributors who has been very accurate with predictions in the past, said on Twitter that bad news will start flowing again today/tomorrow. Hinted that Sir Minty might be dragged into matters. Not before time.
madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 11:50
===========================================
It’s been a slow news day, so far. I was simply invoking the Wottpi Principle
mullach at 10:01,
There is no connection between the two beauty businesses. The significance is that a company was registered to that domestic address prior to Stockbridge moving in.
So he was a newcomer to Bearsden when he registered his company to that address, only three weeks after RFC PLC RIP had gone into administration.
Big question is: Who sent Stockbridge up to Jocko-land?
bobferris70 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 11:43
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Has anyone read Scott McDermott’s report on last night’s carnage in the record? It is quite unbelievable. Here is the best bit, my capitals – “At times it was intimidating and shamefully this was no place for youngsters coming to watch their team in a “friendly” environment. The loutish behaviour and sectarian undercurrent hasn’t gone away in the last year. But in a domestic campaign which has failed to get out of second gear, THIS WAS A SHARP REMINDER OF WHY THE OLD FIRM HAVE TO BE THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND OUR GAME”.
—
Actually, that’s a shocking piece of reporting – even with the “opinion” excuse. And all this fun at a bairns’ game.
Still, oly five years till Rangers and Celtic move to England – where their behaviour will be welcomed with open arms – eh, Mr Green?
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 12:47
————————————–
Spot on, that is shocking. To say “this is not an environment for youngsters” and “we need these 2 teams to be driving our game” in the same breath, is beyond belief.
Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 12:12
Hi, what was the name of the poster on Twitter re the rumours that the bad news is going to flow again in the next 24 – 48 hours? Thanks.
bobferris70 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 11:43
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Has anyone read Scott McDermott’s report on last night’s carnage in the record? It is quite unbelievable. Here is the best bit, my capitals – “At times it was intimidating and shamefully this was no place for youngsters coming to watch their team in a “friendly” environment. The loutish behaviour and sectarian undercurrent hasn’t gone away in the last year. But in a domestic campaign which has failed to get out of second gear, THIS WAS A SHARP REMINDER OF WHY THE OLD FIRM HAVE TO BE THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND OUR GAME”.
He should be sacked today.
__________________________________________
Why? When he’s doing the job he’s paid to do?
Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 13:48
OG Rafferty.
madbhoy24941 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 11:00
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From the Lee McCulloch interview:
———————————————
“I made my way over. Hartley was standing beside Gordon Strachan. I challenged Hartley to a fight. I said , ‘Come on, right here and now. Let’s get it on. Down the tunnel, wherever you like.’
“Strachan stared at me in disbelief. Hartley was stunned. A few Celtic players pushed me away from him.”
———————————————
Are we to believe that this was not known by anyone in the media? Is this not a matter of public interest? Is this another instance of Rangers being treated differently from other clubs?
——————————————
Ah, but as you will see from the quote – Old Elbows didn’t use any bad sweary words.
So that’s alright then.
Some more background from the guys at KDS:First posted 9th Feb.See who’s mentioned at the end!.
Orlit Enterprises, who are threatening Rangers with a Winding Up Order over a contested bill for £400,000, appear to be a bit of a mystery. They have an office in Singapore alongside Unilegal, the law firm that Orlit’s known director Chan Fook Meng is connected with. But who else is involved?
Well, let’s track back a bit. Charles Green’s last role before being called in to front the Rangers takeover was with AIM-listed Nova Resources, where Chan Fook Meng was also a director.
This company was previously known as Tembusu Investments, but changed its name after its then Chairman and Chief Executive Rafat Rizvi was convicted of corruption and money laundering charges in Indonesia involving a total of £367million.
When Rizvi resigned, his place was taken by Ms Zhang Yun, whose CV indicates that one of her positions was as
Director of Orlit Enterprise (Singapore) Pte Ltd.
Oh, and she’s also the WIFE of convicted money launderer Rafat Rizvi.
So that’s the type of company Green looked to when he needed help raising the funds for his takeover.
And that’s the type of company Green has already paid cash to, despite his spokesman accusing them of inflating bills and even faking invoices.
No wonder Green wanted the Press to decide this matter was “unworthy of comment”.
It stinks.
But then again:
PS: The decision to allow Mrs Rizvi to take her convicted man’s place as boss of Tembusu was approved by the firm’s nominated advisers Allenby Capital.
Allenby’s representative at Tembusu? Rangers Director Brian Stockbridge.
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 12:47
23 1 Rate This
bobferris70 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 11:43
32 0 i
Rate This
Has anyone read Scott McDermott’s report on last night’s carnage in the record? It is quite unbelievable. Here is the best bit, my capitals – “At times it was intimidating and shamefully this was no place for youngsters coming to watch their team in a “friendly” environment. The loutish behaviour and sectarian undercurrent hasn’t gone away in the last year. But in a domestic campaign which has failed to get out of second gear, THIS WAS A SHARP REMINDER OF WHY THE OLD FIRM HAVE TO BE THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND OUR GAME”.
—
Actually, that’s a shocking piece of reporting – even with the “opinion” excuse. And all this fun at a bairns’ game.
Still, oly five years till Rangers and Celtic move to England – where their behaviour will be welcomed with open arms – eh, Mr Green?
==========================================================
FFS
poster as bad as the idiot writing the “report”.
repeat after me
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
DO YOU UNDERSTAND ?
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain 1m
Good to hear that the working relationship between Malcolm Murray and Craig Mather is close and convivial.
I often enjoy Phil Mac’s wee hints. But I’m now getting to the stage where I just want actual facts or events – this feeling that we’re always on the brink of disaster or more bad news is getting tiring.
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 12:47
23 1 Rate This
Come on Angus, you’re forgetting plastic seat manufacturers need a strong OF.
Vile, vile scenes at last nights game, and I couldn’t give two hoots about Cardigan and CO having a dodgy handshake when all this is going on in the background. I shudder to think what will happen the first time Sevco play CFC.
RFC 1872 may be dead, but Scotland’s shame isn’t. Good to see the SFA on top of this important matter as usual.
More from Phil Mac:
It would, for example, be a very bad thing if they were to have a stand up row in public. However, I don’t think that is possible.
Dignity, people, dignity…
maybe the spanish judges reckon that the cheats gained “no sporting advantage”
jimlarkin says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 14:18
———————————
What did the poster say that was wrong? I don’t think Angus mentioned “Old Firm”, that seems to be a quote from the article.
I too get a wee bit impatient with PMG’s hints but to be honest, when he hints at something 9 times out of 10 it happens eventually 🙂 he at least is not covering it all up.
Patience is a virtue …….. I don’t have, but let’s hope the result is worth waiting for 🙂 🙂
Keep up the good work Phil
Look, Phil’s been on the money many times and I have huge respect for the work he has done. I’ve just got TRFC bad news imminent-fatigue. Again.
If I was sitting on the sofa watching Jim White’s sad little face on SSN, with a nice G & T, pressing F5, I’d probably be enjoying it a bit more.
Interesting to see that Havelange has resigned and that Blatter is under fire.
Is there no end to corruption in world football? These guys would make our SFA guys look like plaster saints by comparison!
The comforting thing is that, even if it takes forever, some bad guys do get caught and exposed.
( OT, I came back from Oz late on Sunday night, and am happily reading myself in.
For those who took an interest in the reason for my visit can I say that my new grandaughter survived three major operations, and is now home since last Thursday as a beautiful bouncing baby, thank God)
jimlarkin says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 14:18
FFS
poster as bad as the idiot writing the “report”.
repeat after me
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
DO YOU UNDERSTAND ?
=====================================
Jim, whilst I take your point…..can you explain to me why such a bumper crowd and passions running so highly amongst the support last night? Where were they all in the semi’s?
to almost every Sevconian and a good few tims, the Old Firm lives on just like Rangers (the club) live on.
Speaking today of Jonny Wilkinson’s non-availability for the Lions Tour of OZ,
Tour manager Andy Irvine told BBC Radio 5 live
that he admired Wilkinson’s ” honesty and integrity ” over the matter.
As I read that, I could almost smell the fresh air.
arabest1 says:
Monday, April 29, 2013 at 22:41
As a kind of a group hug to bring us all together….can we have a caption competition?….can we?
WS to CO – Did you just fart?
QC now involved – official statement
twopanda says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 15:27
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QC now involved – official statement
———————
in what?
about what?
you are worse than Phil FFS!
To John Clarke
JC, delighted to see you back on the blog,
More than delighted to hear the news about your granddaughter.!
TRFC Site NTHM
RANGERS today made the following announcement:
Further to previous announcements concerning the investigation by Rangers International Football Club plc (“Rangers”) into any connections between Craig Whyte and former and current personnel of Rangers and its subsidiaries, Pinsent Masons, the law firm conducting the investigation, have engaged a Queen’s Counsel, Roy Martin QC, to oversee the independent investigation.
Thanks twopanda!
So, they have appointed a Deloittes, who appointed Masons (not THE, just Pinsent) and they have today employed a QC
not looking good is it? (actually, as a tim, aye, it is!)
jimlarkin says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 14:18
angus1983 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 12:47
==========================================================
FFS
poster as bad as the idiot writing the “report”.
repeat after me
THERE IS NO OLD-FIRM ANYMORE
——
Jim. Repeat after me.
I MUST READ POSTS BEFORE POSTING KNEE-JERK REPLIES
There is a lot of noise being made about how the “OF” no longer exists. If this is the case, the scenes at Firhill were even more of a disgrace between fans of two clubs who have never even played each other before.
Can we expect similar behaviour when Celtic or Rangers play, for example, Formartine United? According to OF(IL) fans, that match would have pretty much the same relevance and rivalries.
(I represent the inference that I am an idiot.)
Can someone answer me this? Who owns sevco?