Scottish Football and the case for a Bismarck!

Avatar Bybroganrogantrevinoandhogan

Scottish Football and the case for a Bismarck!

Good Evening.

When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.

It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.

However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.

Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.

Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.

Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.

Job done so to speak.

Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.

Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.

Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.

No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.

Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.

In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.

As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.

Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.

Ever!

It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.

All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.

The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!

All to suit one man!

Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?

Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.

Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.

Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.

With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.

Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?

At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.

It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.

What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.

This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.

It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.

Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.

It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.

All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.

Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.

Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.

Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.

Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?

Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.

Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs  or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.

It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor!  There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.

About the author

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broganrogantrevinoandhogan author

Boot wearing football, sport & total nonsense fan-- Gourmet, Bon Viveur and eedgit! - Oh and I write a bit occasionally!

5,402 Comments so far

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Danish PastryPosted on3:51 pm - Apr 30, 2013


jimlarkin on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 14:31

1 0 Rate This
Spanish court, holding blood bags that could incriminate many athletes, orders they must be destroyed. Appalling. In Spain cheats do prosper— James Pearce (@Pearcesport) April 30, 2013

maybe the spanish judges reckon that the cheats gained “no sporting advantage”
———–
A huge story that now leaves every Spanish sporting success of the past decade under a cloud of suspicion. Since they’re not willing to act on conclusive evidence people may look at the most successful Spanish sportsmen & women and wonder: Was it F1’s Alonso, Contador, Nadal, Barca players? I’m wondering …

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neepheidPosted on3:54 pm - Apr 30, 2013


twopanda says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 15:31

Pinsent Masons, the law firm conducting the investigation, have engaged a Queen’s Counsel, Roy Martin QC, to oversee the independent investigation.

====================
Interesting that Roy Martin QC specialises in property matters. He won’t come cheap either. Clearly there are perceived to be some legal difficulties relating to property matters. I wonder what those could relate to? Just as well they’ve shown us the deeds isn’t it?

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on3:58 pm - Apr 30, 2013


The plot thickens:

Barold Hatchback MBE ‏@Sir_Barold_QC 7m

Why would TRIFC choose Counsel who has “‘unrivalled experience” in planning and property matters to chair their ‘independent’ inquiry?

I don’t know how hese things work but I’d assume that if Pincent Masons have now employed a QC,then things ain’t looking straightforward for RIFC with regard to Greens business activities.

Welcome back JC and best wishes to the wee one.

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SmugasPosted on4:02 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Looking good is all about perspective.

Think of Roy Martin QC’s Glazier for instance!

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angus1983Posted on4:02 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Brenda says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 15:48

Can someone answer me this? Who owns sevco?
——

Which begs the question – what do you mean by “Sevco”?

Perhaps employing the generic name “Sevco” was all part of the plan. Sevco 5088, Sevco Scotland, RFC known to everyone else as “Sevco”.

There’s three variations for a start, ideal to cloud issues in everything but legal documentation, where “Sevco” would have to be defined.

After all, they could have called the purchasing company “TRFC” in the first place.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on4:03 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Deloittes,Pincent Masons and now a QC?.
There may be cash in the bank right now but this lot will soon see it disappear!.

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twopandaPosted on4:10 pm - Apr 30, 2013


What they need are players with legal qualifications – might cut overheads & costs – perhaps the QC could play in goal 😉 Ally’s got his `war-chest` all right – but expensive long grass to play vs CW Utd

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on4:18 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Was there not supposed to be a “verbal report” from Deloittes/PM to RIFC yesterday?.Wonder what they told them.?.

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twopandaPosted on4:18 pm - Apr 30, 2013


neepheid says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 15:54
Yes – & seems defensive

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youtawknabootPosted on4:21 pm - Apr 30, 2013


torrejohnbhoy says:
Deloittes,Pincent Masons and now a QC?.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
At some point soon…ther'e gonna need a bigger boat !!

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Carfins Finest. (@edunne58)Posted on4:27 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Brenda says:

Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 15:48

Can someone answer me this? Who owns sevco?

=====================
Asked this a few days ago Brenda and never recieved an answer. I was asking who, currently at Ibrox, can sanction any spending required. Who is the big decision maker? I am now pretty confused by all the movement of the chess pieces but it would seem that Stockbridge making a couple of appearances this week would seem to say that he has the muscle as well as the backing of the original buyers/consortium and the institutional investors.The new CEO is obviously just a placeman who would seem to be out of his depths. I believe once we find out who was behind the ‘Fronting’ companies for the flotation purposes then we will have an answer to your question. Right now it seems to be a guessing game.

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on4:31 pm - Apr 30, 2013


torrejohnbhoy says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 16:18

Was there not supposed to be a “verbal report” from Deloittes/PM to RIFC yesterday?.Wonder what they told them.?.

============================

I’m thinking it was something along the lines of …

You’re going to need a QC, a really good QC. Best make a call to other lodges because we think your donald ducked!

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bobferrisPosted on4:36 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Jim Larkin – the block capitals were mine, the words were his. Understand?

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greenockjackPosted on4:38 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Forres
Not really.
The appointment has been in the offing for a number of days.

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Danish PastryPosted on4:43 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Is this the same Roy Martin QC?

http://www.terrafirmachambers.com/our-advocates.html?advocate_id=30

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paulmac2Posted on4:49 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Danish Pastry says:

Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 15:51

jimlarkin on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 14:31

Spanish court, holding blood bags that could incriminate many athletes, orders they must be destroyed. Appalling. In Spain cheats do prosper— James Pearce (@Pearcesport) April 30, 2013

maybe the spanish judges reckon that the cheats gained “no sporting advantage”
———–
A huge story that now leaves every Spanish sporting success of the past decade under a cloud of suspicion. Since they’re not willing to act on conclusive evidence people may look at the most successful Spanish sportsmen & women and wonder: Was it F1′s Alonso, Contador, Nadal, Barca players? I’m wondering …

……………………………….

Indeed…I would go as far as to say that the self protection in this decision by a Spanish court is serious enough to warrant Spains exclusion from all sporting activity for a defined period unless there is disclosure of all details surrounding this case to allow each and every sporting body the time to assess any further action required by their professional body.

This decision opens a very dangerous gateway to other nations on how to circumvent the rules should they be caught….’at it’.

For the sake of the clean sportsmen…the Australian journalist who has seen the list of sporting names involved with scandal should consider how best to bring it to the surface…

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Long Time Lurker

Long Time LurkerPosted on4:53 pm - Apr 30, 2013


twopanda says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 15:31

RANGERS today made the following announcement:

Further to previous announcements concerning the investigation by Rangers International Football Club plc (“Rangers”) into any connections between Craig Whyte and former and current personnel of Rangers and its subsidiaries, Pinsent Masons, the law firm conducting the investigation, have engaged a Queen’s Counsel, Roy Martin QC, to oversee the independent investigation.
—————————————————————-
At what stage do the AIM step in and suspend share trading? Interesting that the announcement by RANGERS was not made to the market.

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twopandaPosted on5:06 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 16:53

When do the authorities step in?
– This quasi investigation has no powers – supporters should be protected

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youtawknabootPosted on5:42 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Long Time Lurker says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 16:53

twopanda says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 15:31

RANGERS today made the following additional announcement:

Further to previous announcements concerning the investigation by Rangers International Football Club plc (“Rangers”) into any connections between Craig Whyte and former and current personnel of Rangers and its subsidiaries, Pinsent Masons, the law firm conducting the investigation, have engaged a Queen’s Counsel, Roy Martin QC, to oversee the independent investigation.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
RANGERS today also made the following additional announcement.(allegedly)

As well as being an extremely capable & gooder QC than the last one,Roy is also the bestest squirrel spotter in the whole of Scotlandestyshire…so he is.

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on5:48 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Looks to me as if the QC has been brought in to try and get them out of a tricky situation in regards to the title deeds. He is there to find legal arguments against CWs claims. Independent commission my backside.

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neepheidPosted on5:59 pm - Apr 30, 2013


I wonder whether the sudden appointment of a property law expert to oversee the “investigation” is in any way linked to the verbal report Deloittes were supposed to me making to the Board of Directors today?

I thought the original plan was to seek out for the job a well filled blazer with the brownest of brogues who hadn’t liquidated any companies or been to jail recently.

Could the verbal report have been on these lines- “sorry chaps, but a quick look at the ownership position indicates that you’re right up to your necks in brown smelly stuff, and it’s rising fast. Time to call in the heavy squad- you need expert assistance badly”

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Danish PastryPosted on6:01 pm - Apr 30, 2013


paulmac2 says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 16:49
5 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says:

Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 15:51

jimlarkin on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 14:31

Spanish court, holding blood bags that could incriminate many athletes, orders they must be destroyed. Appalling. In Spain cheats do prosper— James Pearce (@Pearcesport) April 30, 2013

maybe the spanish judges reckon that the cheats gained “no sporting advantage”
———–
A huge story that now leaves every Spanish sporting success of the past decade under a cloud of suspicion. Since they’re not willing to act on conclusive evidence people may look at the most successful Spanish sportsmen & women and wonder: Was it F1′s Alonso, Contador, Nadal, Barca players? I’m wondering …

……………………………….

Indeed…I would go as far as to say that the self protection in this decision by a Spanish court is serious enough to warrant Spains exclusion from all sporting activity for a defined period unless there is disclosure of all details surrounding this case to allow each and every sporting body the time to assess any further action required by their professional body.

This decision opens a very dangerous gateway to other nations on how to circumvent the rules should they be caught….’at it’.

For the sake of the clean sportsmen…the Australian journalist who has seen the list of sporting names involved with scandal should consider how best to bring it to the surface…
———-

@paulmac2
Totally agree. Echoes of the old East Germany, the coast of which I’m looking at from my current perch. Fair weather over the Baltic.

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upthehoopsPosted on6:02 pm - Apr 30, 2013


ecobhoy says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 09:39
24 6 Rate This

Your theory about Editors controlling what Journalists can and can’t ask may be right. I prefer a different theory though, and I do not believe it to be an outlandish one. Quite simply I believe there are a significant number of people in Scotland who still believe the true Rangers man is of superior moral fibre to others, and hand in hand with that goes honesty, dignity, and a quest always to do the right thing. If you need examples other than Smith and McCoist, look no further than Campbell Ogilive and Gordon Smith, who are also untouchable in terms of media scrutiny. How often have we read recently that Rangers need to regain the ‘dignity’ of the Struth era, which incidentally was an era that oversaw some of the worst anti-Catholic discrimination ever witnessed in Scottish football – yet still we have writers who believe that era was somehow ‘dignified. I don’t believe it’s anything to to with Editors at all. It’s simply a general belief that the true Rangers man is superior to others, and is incapable of dishonesty or wrongdoing.

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youtawknabootPosted on6:03 pm - Apr 30, 2013


nowoldandgrumpy says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 17:48

Obviously designed to unsettle the (legal & rightful owner)TGEF & no doubt an attempt at rattlin the cage of the Worthington boys….high noon doth fast approaches !!

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Tartawulver

TartawulverPosted on6:11 pm - Apr 30, 2013


neepheid says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 17:59

I thought the original plan was to seek out for the job a well filled blazer with the brownest of brogues who hadn’t liquidated any companies or been to jail recently
———————
Maybe they just couldn’t find one?

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Danish PastryPosted on6:16 pm - Apr 30, 2013


youtawknaboot says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 18:03
1 0 Rate This

nowoldandgrumpy says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 17:48

Obviously designed to unsettle the (legal & rightful owner)TGEF & no doubt an attempt at rattlin the cage of the Worthington boys….high noon doth fast approaches !!
———

Each camp, in silk gowns, at 10 paces 😀

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jimlarkinPosted on6:29 pm - Apr 30, 2013


bobferris
and
NTHM

bob – the way the post was worded along with the copy of the article, on the face of it, there was no questioning any mention of the “old-firm”, as from what i have read, time and time again, celtic fans/supporters do not want any association with the “old-firm”.

and we can deduce from that, that they do not want to be described as such, either by posters on here, or by idiot hacks.

NTHM – i don’t see how the size of last nights crowd can be describes a “bumper crowd”, if you consider the amount of brand new sevco fans there are and seperately, how many celtic fans there are.

most of the punters there last night, by all accounts was teenagers who are wet behind the ears and pretty much ignorant to what exactly happened to rangers, in that they went bust and out of business, but the fact that keevins, guidi, BfDJ, spiers, dodds, english, all are allowed to peddle the lie that sevco and rangers are one and the same, and these kids don’t know any better.

that i believe is why so many of them went along

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wottpiPosted on6:31 pm - Apr 30, 2013


However the question is where will High Noon take place?

Remember all the stooshy with regard to Ticketus not knowing Scots Law.

Is it not the case that Sevco 5088 was and is an English registered company.

Will there be a reversal in terms of what law takes precedent or will the whole thing be confused as ever. 🙂

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smartie1947Posted on6:48 pm - Apr 30, 2013


nowoldandgrumpy says:

Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 17:48

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Looks to me as if the QC has been brought in to try and get them out of a tricky situation in regards to the title deeds. He is there to find legal arguments against CWs claims. Independent commission my backside.

=================================================

Why have I no faith in anyone in this saga, who has legal expertise and is based in Edinburgh?
If precedent is anything to go by, mark the date February 2015 in your diary as the probable date this “investigation will report!

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timtimPosted on7:04 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Brenda says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 15:48

Can someone answer me this? Who owns sevco?
———————
In a non Orwellian world it should be the group that paid the most for it
thats you me and every other taxpayer

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BrendaPosted on7:13 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Will ally’s winning team get a valid licence next season or will there have to be a 57 way agreement to make sure???

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redlichtiePosted on7:14 pm - Apr 30, 2013


So the last game of the SFL3 season will soon be upon us….

What will be the natural order of things and timing if the assembled company making up the independent commission find just after this game that the assets that are claimed by RIFC/TRFC as being owned by RIFC/TRFC are in fact likely or even virtually certain to be held by the Courts to be owned by a third party e.g. TGEF and his cohorts?

Can the RIFC/TRFC continue to trade? Would an administrator have to be appointed immediately?

(Not even going to bother asking about likely SFA/SFL action….)

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The CEPosted on7:29 pm - Apr 30, 2013


http://www.scotzine.com/2013/04/all-about-the-hate-never-about-the-football/

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on7:37 pm - Apr 30, 2013


How can this so called independent commission reach an unbiased decision, when the only evidence they will take will be from CG and what is currently in the public domain. I am sure they will not be asking CW what additional information he has.

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neepheidPosted on7:47 pm - Apr 30, 2013


redlichtie says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 19:14
2 0 Rate This
So the last game of the SFL3 season will soon be upon us….

What will be the natural order of things and timing if the assembled company making up the independent commission find just after this game that the assets that are claimed by RIFC/TRFC as being owned by RIFC/TRFC are in fact likely or even virtually certain to be held by the Courts to be owned by a third party e.g. TGEF and his cohorts?

Can the RIFC/TRFC continue to trade? Would an administrator have to be appointed immediately?
============================
Now that’s an interesting question. I guess the sale of season tickets could not go legally ahead in those circumstances. Without that money, the wages couldn’t be paid for long, so I think the best interests of shareholders would be served by getting rid of TRFC and its expensive wage bill. But without the properties, RIFC is worth nothing anyway, so the only answer might be a quick liquidation. Nobody gets anything, except Whyte, who gets the properties back and might even throw in a pound coin for the football team. Now wouldn’t the bears just love that!

Although I think BDO would have to step in before Whyte gets the keys, in which case Ibrox could be padlocked for years while the courts sort it out.

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comeongetaffPosted on8:07 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Totally off topic,but does anyone know a certain Ally McOists record as captain of one of the worlds worst ever(I still cringe)(my now ex-wife liked him)TV shows.Was it any better than his performance(as a supposed manager of a 3rd Div team,in one of the worst leagues in Europe).My other question is.Why is he held in any kind of regard?
Guess what team I support?

Early apologies.
Just bored.

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twopandaPosted on8:10 pm - Apr 30, 2013


redlichtie says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 19:14
(Not even going to bother asking about likely SFA/SFL action….)
_____

What the SFA could do is suspend the entire board from football until this is – properly! – cleared up.
Would speed things along & flush out the spivs

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ecobhoyPosted on8:13 pm - Apr 30, 2013


upthehoops says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 18:02

ecobhoy says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 09:39
24 6 Rate This

Your theory about Editors controlling what Journalists can and can’t ask may be right. I prefer a different theory though, and I do not believe it to be an outlandish one. Quite simply I believe there are a significant number of people in Scotland who still believe the true Rangers man is of superior moral fibre to others, and hand in hand with that goes honesty, dignity, and a quest always to do the right thing. If you need examples other than Smith and McCoist, look no further than Campbell Ogilive and Gordon Smith, who are also untouchable in terms of media scrutiny. How often have we read recently that Rangers need to regain the ‘dignity’ of the Struth era, which incidentally was an era that oversaw some of the worst anti-Catholic discrimination ever witnessed in Scottish football – yet still we have writers who believe that era was somehow ‘dignified. I don’t believe it’s anything to to with Editors at all. It’s simply a general belief that the true Rangers man is superior to others, and is incapable of dishonesty or wrongdoing.
========================================================================

It wasn’t a theory – I explained factually how the industry works when a media organisation is handling what they decide is a ‘sensitive’ story and Rangers most certainly falls into that Category.

Struth was Rangers manager from 1920-1954 so there are no writers today who have any meaningful personal experience of that period.

I would also suggest that society has moved on greatly from what you allude to.You portray Struth IMO as an architect and driving force of anti-Catholic discrimination which is a terribly simplistic approach and in no way explains a very complex situation which is way beyond the scope of this blog to adequately deal with.

But Scotland is changing and is generally moving away from the power of organised religion. It has also started moving away from supporting football and that decline will continue with a number of different reasons at play.

I don’t recognise this picture you paint of the ‘true Rangers man’ being seen as superior to others by a significant number of Scots but rather as a very small percentage of Scots driven by extremism in religious and cultural grounds and sadly they have their counterparts across the religious divide. I have to say that my only experience in recent years of that phenomenon has been football related and not in a wider societal context.

But I very much doubt if anything I say will change your opinion and personally I am happy that I am able to look forward with hope to a new less discriminatory Scotland rather than constantly being dragged backwards by the injustices of the past which were real and which I personally suffered from. To remain there means we’ll never learn the lessons and can never truly move on and leave the ‘victim’ status behind which is as bad as the ‘supremacy’ cloak.

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The GlenPosted on8:28 pm - Apr 30, 2013


comeongetaff says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 20:07
————————–
I would guess winning the European Golden Shoe twice would see him held in reasonably high regard by some. The Rangers fans mostly.

Not so his managerial prowess, that much is clear.

No idea about his record V John Parrott.

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The CEPosted on8:29 pm - Apr 30, 2013


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22358175

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Danish PastryPosted on8:33 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Andy Murray’s tweet on the Fuentes business:

——–
@andy_murray: operacion puerto case is beyond a joke… biggest cover up in sports history? why would court order blood bags to be destroyed? #coveret
——–

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Danish PastryPosted on8:35 pm - Apr 30, 2013


#coverup

😉

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BrendaPosted on8:39 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Back tracking on my own question 🙁 so confused!! but before even discussing a valid licence for next season??? Is the licence obtained last year via the ” 5 way agreement ” still valid since CG is no longer at the helm?? Does that mean since CG departed, sevco have been playing without a valid licence ??? Sorry I’m confusing myself now???? Strange that he got the heave-ho after the ‘title’ was clinched?

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iamacantPosted on8:43 pm - Apr 30, 2013


The CE says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 20:29

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22358175

————————————————————————————–

According to this, Hearts could get relegated if they went into administration. Fair enough as they are in bottom 6 after the split.

What would happen to say Dundee Utd if they go into administration? I cant find anything in the rule book

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upthehoopsPosted on8:49 pm - Apr 30, 2013


ecobhoy says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 20:13

I’m sorry to say I find your responses quite condescending but I’ll try and answer them in any case.

I quoted the Struth era as an example, but others era’s such as the Willie Waddell and Jock Wallace era’s have also recently been held up as examples of the ‘dignity’ that the current Rangers should aspire to. Those era’s are far more recent but still saw the strong encouragement of Rangers traditional anti-Catholic policy. If many modern day writers see the values of those times as something the current club should aspire to I’m not so sure we’ve moved on as much as you say.

I do agree organised religion does not hold the same power in the country as it once did, but don’t tell me Rangers as an organisation don’t hold the same power. Only the collective will of supporters prevented the authorities affording the ultimate privileges to that club last summer and the Scottish Government appeared willing to go along with it.

My point about the true Rangers man was meant in the context of how the media portray that type. I am firmly of the view that any collective group of people will broadly reflect the same cross section in terms of honesty, integrity and dignity. It doesn’t matter whether they are Rangers people, Celtic people, Hearts people, Catholic, Protestant, Hindu or whatever, I believe the same human strengths and failings will be reflected in a cross section of any group. It is currently preposterous the way the Scottish media ask us to accept people like Smith and McCoist can’t be subject to the same failings as the rest of us, and if it’s simply down to how they handle a sensitive situation then why have so many Celtic people been subject to such scrutiny and bad press in the past?

Finally, please don’t patronise with the ‘victim’ stuff. It’s as bad as trying to end an argument by telling your opponent he’s just paranoid. You won’t change my mind, but I respect your view.

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FIFAPosted on9:04 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Question re Sevco season books,the IP wonga will be stashed only God knows where,when eventualy the books go on sale ,and at a 3,4,5, part payment plan ,where will this money sit as I am sure it wont be keeping the IP wonga company,I suppose ally will offer the [empty]war chest

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jimlarkinPosted on9:06 pm - Apr 30, 2013


iamacant says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 20:43
1 0 Rate This
The CE says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 20:29

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22358175

—————————————————————————

why should hearts an the hertz fans be punished – as it is the holding company that has the problems. the club have nowt to do with it.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on9:12 pm - Apr 30, 2013


jimlarkin says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 18:29

NTHM – i don’t see how the size of last nights crowd can be describes a “bumper crowd”, if you consider the amount of brand new sevco fans there are and seperately, how many celtic fans there are.

most of the punters there last night, by all accounts was teenagers who are wet behind the ears and pretty much ignorant to what exactly happened to rangers, in that they went bust and out of business, but the fact that keevins, guidi, BfDJ, spiers, dodds, english, all are allowed to peddle the lie that sevco and rangers are one and the same, and these kids don’t know any better.

that i believe is why so many of them went along

—————————————————-

6,000 fans went to an under 17’s game

more than the average home gate for 6 SPL clubs (and only 16 less than Dundee get on average)

I would say that was a bumper crowd for even the highest level of football in the country – never mind an under 17’s game

However, 8,000 attended the same fixture at Ibrox last year – so there has been a decline

I guess you could say 75% of the people who attended last years game regard Sevco as the Old Rangers – extrapolating that to the wider audience, you could say 75% of Celtic/Old Rangers fans regard Sevco as the same club

Or, I guess you could just say that the New Sevconians have a big support and whilst not as big as the Old Rangers, still healthy and Celtic have a big support – so both clubs had a good turn out for a kids game

that would explain the numbers – by why the animosity (from Celtic fans at least?) unless some of those fans regard the new club as the same as the old club?

What is also interesting is that last nights trouble was not a one off, in the final last year, celtic supporters set light to seats inside Ibrox.

So, whatever the reason for the animosity between the 2 clubs, it looks like matching the animostity that existed between the Old Firm fans.

This should concern the people running the game, but i’m pretty sure they haven’t given it any thought.

And yes, there is no more Old Firm……in a legal sense, emotionally, well, i think you’ll find a lot of people won’t let it go so easily.

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comeongetaffPosted on9:19 pm - Apr 30, 2013


@the glen
Were these”trophies “erm”won during the EBT years?I

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comeongetaffPosted on9:36 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Oops meant to say “Murray years”.
Anyway.
Do not want this great blog to descend into a petty point scoring excercise.
I did make an early apology.
And I did say that I was bored,
If I could do the smiley-facey-thingy I would.
But I cant.
So there.

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The GlenPosted on9:38 pm - Apr 30, 2013


comeongetaff says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 21:19
—————
Early 90’s, as far as I’m aware. I don’t think any of the recent investigations covered that far back – perhaps “pre-EBT”?

My point is – and I’m taking your original question on face value as being a genuine one – McCoist will be held in high regard by Rangers fans because he is the clubs highest ever scorer and won a prestigious European football award two years running. He also ranks among the all time top appearances for the club. I think any player of any club with that record would be reasonably popular with the support.

I’m not asking anyone to like him – simply stating my opinion on why he is held in high regard.

Other than doing a poll on every one of the, ahem, 500 million fans world wide, I can’t help you any more than giving this genuine answer.

And you can’t hold him personally responsible for your ex-wife liking him.

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CastofThousandsPosted on9:43 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Brenda says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 20:39

Hello Brenda

I’m far from expert in these matters but did read a discussion on here the other day on this topic. Better informed posters may correct me if I’m wrong but I think the rough outline is this.

The SAF/SFL membership is unlikely to be revoked unless something really (really, really, really etc, etc…) catastrophic happens. Its like a vehicle registration. Once its issued it stays until the vehicle gets scrapped.

There is also a club licensing hurdle to cross every year (analogous to an MOT) but as Sevco are too young to have amassed sufficient accounts history, they’ll probably get waved through on that as well.

There are however a number of ‘unknown unknowns’ that could cause a problem for Sevco concerning a licence to play next year but if the stalwart bloggers here are unable to pin it down right at this particular moment then undoubtedly the authorities will not be able to do so either.

So the simple answer is they will get a licence unless hell freezes over.

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comeongetaffPosted on9:50 pm - Apr 30, 2013


The Glen at 21:38
Oh yes I can.

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BrendaPosted on9:53 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Mullach @ 21:43

Cheers 🙂 thought as much

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ekbhoyPosted on9:55 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Although past performance is no indicator of future outcomes, it seems to me that when faced with twin pillars of the Scottish legal system and Rangers then unlike on the football pitch , Rangers can sweep all before them.

I would surmise that the age-old Rangers behaviour of calling in favours and sort of simply stopping at nothing will result in them claiming they own everything and all the ‘noise’ will disappear on the following basis:

– Green received verbal undertakings from Whyte in front of witnesses , ergo contract which will require Whyte to reveail all his tapes , to which the retort will be well the promsies were made on conversations not taped.
– Claim that any documents had their signatures forged.

I suspect the chances of Rangers losing a court case in a Scottish court are roughly zero, as the legal system will be aye ready to accommodate. Whyte will be looking for a payout and agreement on accommodating Ticketus should be interesting.

Still the twists and turns through the close season will be pretty entertaining; the key still remains the cost cutting exercise which we simply do not know how this is progressing. The working assumption is that nothing has happened bar a few high profile sacrificial lambs ……….

Perhaps the MSM can pick this up and on behalf of their majority readership ……. and as a follow up pose the question how can Celtic manage their costs in a first class professional manner?.

Not wishing to gloat but not an unreasonable question, perhaps a good subject for a follow up blog ………

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goosyPosted on10:11 pm - Apr 30, 2013


I`m wondering how many porkies Green told publicly in his short reign as Milkman at TRFC?

Is it as large as 10 or even 20?

My top two were

1 I will be here until the Champions league mxusic is playing again at Ibrox

2 My shares will not be sold as they are for my grandchildren

Is there any more that spring to mind?

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on10:27 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Green porkies?

Yorkie went into overdrive as he approached making his getaway;

“As soon as this interview is over I’ll show you the e-mail that came through from the Dallas Cowboys only this week!”

“Sevco 5088? I gave that back to Craig Whyte”

I’d argue every interview given by Yorkie, contained at least one porkie.

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timtimPosted on10:33 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Dallas Cowboys
I’ll show you the e mail after this interview
Manchester Utd
Adidas
6 players at the euros will be signed
Academies in Far East and Australia
All football debts have been paid
fans will vote on a name change for Murray Park
shop opening at Glasgow airport
I am not Mr Custard and neither is my wife

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bangordubPosted on10:35 pm - Apr 30, 2013


We have POTY and MOTY awards coming up, is there an Administrator of the Year award as well? or a Comedian of the Year or even a CEO of the Year?

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timtimPosted on10:39 pm - Apr 30, 2013


bvgger -I forgot about the crossbar challenge

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timtimPosted on10:43 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Oh and the 50p/min phone ins for the fans so they can ask Ally and me any question they like.
would it not be easier to compile a list of truths he has told or I could be here all night

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comeongetaffPosted on10:44 pm - Apr 30, 2013


A long long time ago.
My oldest son(then 5)asked,what do I work at.
I told him that(I was a Civil Eng. at the time) I basically dug holes in the ground.
He then asked what I did next.
I told him that I then filled them back in.
Last week he asked(He is now 41)what is going on at Govan.
My reply was.
Do you remember when you were 5 and asked what I worked at.
His reply.
Naw.
And that folks is the punchline.

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Humble PiePosted on10:45 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Would we not be quicker listing the ‘Things Charles Green Said Which Actually Turned Out To Be True’ ?

I’ll start….”only a CVA would allow Rangers to retain all the history”

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ianagainPosted on10:47 pm - Apr 30, 2013


goosygoosy says:

Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 22:11

I`m wondering how many porkies Green told publicly in his short reign as Milkman at TRFC?

For me his most annoying was “Motherwell are welcome at Ibrox They never wanted us voted out” – Bollocks the fan society voted overwhelmingly to bin them.
Unfortunately we then went on to our worst performance all year.

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comeongetaffPosted on10:47 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Should have added.
Ahl get ma coat.

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timtimPosted on10:50 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Chaaarlies trueisms
This is worst rangers team ever
God gave me big hands so I could scoop up lots of money (or summat like that)

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Humble PiePosted on10:53 pm - Apr 30, 2013


“Rangers fans sent me death threats and physically intimidated me on the streets of Glasgow”

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angus1983Posted on10:55 pm - Apr 30, 2013


ekbhoy says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 21:55

…faced with twin pillars of the Scottish legal system and Rangers …

——

I saw what you did there. 🙂

2 Chronicles 3:15 – 17

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selfassessorPosted on10:55 pm - Apr 30, 2013


What’s a Yorkie porkie? A cross between a yappy wee mutt and a pig?

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aramintamoobeamqcPosted on10:56 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Green “embellishments”
_________________________________

1 I will be here until the Champions league music is playing again at Ibrox

2 My shares will not be sold as they are for my grandchildren
_________________________________________
Dallas Cowboys
I’ll show you the e mail after this interview
Manchester Utd
Adidas
6 players at the euros will be signed
Academies in Far East and Australia
All football debts have been paid
fans will vote on a name change for Murray Park
shop opening at Glasgow airport
I am not Mr Custard and neither is my wife
_________________________________

500m fans worldwide?
Suing the English FA for not allowing entry to league under sex discrimination legislation
Link up with Juventus
Second to Man Utd in terms of revenue when they’re in the EPL
What happened to the Central Coast Mariners?
Most successful IPO last year
Buy back Arsenal shares and play them in a friendly

I dunno about you, but I miss him a wee bit…

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Humble PiePosted on10:57 pm - Apr 30, 2013


timtim says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 22:50

“This is worst ‘The Rangers’ team ever”.

Fixed that for ya 🙂

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Galling fiverPosted on10:58 pm - Apr 30, 2013


I’m hearing Brenda etc loud and clear, the smoke and mirrors are working well. I think it’s time for a quick recap, can I start it off at a point all to often omitted.

1. THE WEE TAX CASE. Starter for ten, can someone take it from just before there. I know we all know most of it, but you read that much it all gets confudled.

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ekbhoyPosted on11:03 pm - Apr 30, 2013


angus1983 says:

Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 22:55

Errrr , clever eh!

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Humble PiePosted on11:16 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Galling fiver says:
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 22:58

IIRC Rangers failed to honour an agreement to pay HMRC with regard to the ‘wee tax case’. This debt subsequently became part of the overall Rangers debt to HMRC, which was included in the failed CVA which consigned Rangers to liquidation.

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ekbhoyPosted on11:19 pm - Apr 30, 2013


Things a bit slow …

just a quick question before retiring for the evening …. for how long have Rangers costs exceeded their income. and a supplementary question other than the Government which other organisation can match this improverished business performance?

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