Good Evening.
When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.
It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.
However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.
Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.
Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.
Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.
Job done so to speak.
Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.
Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.
Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.
No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.
Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.
In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.
As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.
Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.
Ever!
It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.
All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.
The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!
All to suit one man!
Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?
Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.
Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.
Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.
With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.
Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?
At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.
It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.
What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.
This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.
It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.
Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.
It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.
All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.
Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.
Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.
Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.
Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?
Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.
Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.
It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor! There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.
achillesacronym says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 20:57
We have gone from the hysteria of two weeks ago to outright silence – including the most revered bampots on high. Who managed that hysteria, who is now managing the silence apart from todays nonsense? They are so different as to be similar.
—–
Shrewd observation and excellent ambiguous question, Mr Acronym.
angus1983 says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 22:09
achillesacronym says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 20:57
We have gone from the hysteria of two weeks ago to outright silence – including the most revered bampots on high. Who managed that hysteria, who is now managing the silence apart from todays nonsense? They are so different as to be similar.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hopefully the answer is Police Scotchlandshire.
bayviewgold says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 21:39
Is it not a bit simpler than that? They simply don’t know what to do, they don’t have a vision. or the imagination to come up with a vision, that isn’t predicated on Rangers and Celtic in the top flight. Their only option Is to revert to the comfortable status quo-anti, it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t actually work.
Linus needs his Blanky
achillesacronym says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 21:18
Sorry but I wasn’t “suggesting a process” I was recounting what actually happened, as I remember it.
The case did go to the Court of Session and a decision was made.
Looking back, the ‘Gers fiasco has all the ingredients of an acrimonious divorce
with RFC(IL)/TRFC as the cheating wife with a bent lawyer,
and all the other clubs as the husband who played by the rules.
One thing’s for sure – in any partnership, cheating just doesn’t work.
Re divorce – it takes time, it’s often messy but eventually, the right result is achieved.
One way or the other.
Then, we can all live in peace.
And enjoy our football.
Man and boy.
achillesacronym says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 20:57
==========================================
It may just be me but I’m sure that the spivs still call the shots.They have the shares,the power.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Spot on
and nobody should forget it
This entire deal was orchestrated by Spivs
From Grier advising Minty ( MCR was hired by RFC to assist CW before the takeover. It was stated at the first D&P Press Conference It`s on You Tube )
And there were other Spivs
Gary Withey the smart lawyer who could bend the law ( or thought he could)
Craig Whyte (nuff said)
Octopus and Ticketus ..nuff said
Zeus Capital ……..check out their pedigree
Green, Khan and Stockbridge……….likewise
Even the potential new owner Easdale ..an ex con jailed for fraud
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Does anybody, anywhere think for one minute that the figurehead Directors don`t know who calls the shots on big Board decisions?
Get real
This is Spivland
All the figureheads have to offer is their reputations
All the Spivs want from them is their silence
All that matters is money, money and more money
I predict
If Cardigan and Murray are still Directors when RIFC apply for liquidation they will never set foot in Ibrox again
Why?
RIFC wont be liquidated because they have no money in the bank
But because they have the most money in the bank
Thats why Bomber is right
The fans need to exercise the power they have when STs are due to be paid
Once it has been handed over it is entirely under the control of the Spivs
The ‘SFE’…
Scottish Football Entertainment
A quick observation about the ten clubs considering a breakaway from SFL: the group includes Dunfermline and Cowdenbeath, one of which is scheduled to be in play offs next week against one of 3 possible sides (Arbroath, Forfar or Stenhousemuir) from SFL2.
Yet they are part of a group which, according to reports “are ready to quit the Scottish Football League in time for next season”.
Clearly, this move has absolutely zero chance of becoming reality.
So in summary:
Rumours on the LSE website, fairly close to the truth in my estimation, but shot down none the less i.e. CW owns the assets, SFA being forced to act to save Sevco.
This results in HUGE moonbeams being shot out, IMO outing the BBC Scotland Chief Football Correspondent as the new jabba.
Followed by 1st Div clubs going around the SFL board, showing that Longmuir is sitting dead in the water.
Given that news out of the Blue Room is hard to come by these days, that wasn’t bad at all and I’ll take Longmuir being sidestepped by SFL clubs as a win for the bampots.
Crikey. I know it’s been suggested before, but maybe the penny has finally dropped. Even in the arcade!
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/leaguedivision3/4914530/Ally-McCoist-10m-Ill-believe-it-when-I-see-it.html
Hugh Keevin’s a man who enjoy’s his own voice more than any other, willing to argue the other side of any such argument no matter how ridiculous. But I have to agree with A Thomson he should’nt be banned from Celtic park due to his poor drivel. Surely as fan’s we can just ignore the rubbish spouted by the desperate Glasgow press pack. What have Celtic got to fear from Keevin’s by banning him? Maybe a question in that.
Lord Wobbly says: Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 00:35 0 0 Rate This
Crikey. I know it’s been suggested before, but maybe the penny has finally dropped. Even in the arcade!
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/leaguedivision3/4914530/Ally-McCoist-10m-Ill-believe-it-when-I-see-it.html
========================================
That photo of McCoist and Durrant and McDowell killing themselves laughing…
I’m imagining the not-so-cheeky chappy spluttering during fits of uncontrollable laughter;
“I still can’t believe they’re paying us all this money for that p*sh on the pitch!”
Mibbees… 😉
oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 00:47
2 4 Rate This
Hugh Keevin’s a man who enjoy’s his own voice more than any
other, willing to argue the other side of any such argument no
matter how ridiculous. But I have to agree with A Thomson he
should’nt be banned from Celtic park due to his poor drivel. Surely as fan’s we can just ignore the rubbish spouted by the desperate Glasgow press pack. What have Celtic got to fear from Keevin’s by banning him? Maybe a question in that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Keevin’s, possibly more than any other sports ‘journalist’, is a dinosaur. There are other more insidious individuals (the recently retired Traynor being a prime example) but no-one is more out of touch than Keevins. He even makes Keith Jackson seem clued up!
StevieBC says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 00:55
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Lord Wobbly says: Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 00:35 0 0 Rate This
Crikey. I know it’s been suggested before, but maybe the penny has finally dropped. Even in the arcade
“Gers will lift the Third Division trophy today when they face Berwick at Ibrox — but McCoist is already thinking about next term. He is due to meet interim chief executive Craig Mather over the weekend to discuss budgets and other football matters.”
_________________________________________________
Hmmm…
discuss budgets = your pay off.?
other football matters = which of the duds you lumped on us can go with you!?
Hats off to the spivs on having navigated the bears in under 12 months from the point where Allys vindication was the only reason they stumped up for the SBs, to the point where most of them will see his cost cutting departure as a good reason to renew.
Come on…. If ally sees the week out, its only because they know insolvency is inevitable and they can get shot of him for £less in administration than they will make back in SBs by killing him now!
manandboy says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 23:14
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Sincere thanks for a lovely thought!
Its easy to be jaded when caught up by all the shenanigans and disappointed by the human frailties & needless rancour, and the powerful vested interests involved, but you have reminded me of that old maxim:
Do right, and right shall be done upon ye.
Tough times in scots football, but thanks for reminding us that there will be light at the end of the tunnel.
It looks like Ally is heading for the exit. since it’s now clear that TRFC can’t really afford a manager of his calibre. So what next for Superally? I hear that Real Madrid may be looking for a heavyweight manager shortly. This would be a good move for Ally, since Real have a world-wide fan base too, although maybe not quite the 500 million that he’s used to. The big question, of course, is- can Real afford him? Like most managers, he’ll want to bring some talent from his previous job. McCulloch and Black could probably be persuaded to move, and if the price was right, I’m sure TRFC would release them. That should clinch next year’s CL final.
So neepheid, presumably the logical next step would be Mourinho to Ibrox, or wherever The Rangers, or whatever they will be called, are playing next season. Mou seems to want to collect league wins in different countries, so it would be a logical progression to continue his career on an upward trajectory after Madrid. Naturally, given the boost his arrival would bring to Scottish football, the SFA and SPL would be expected to change their rules to allow the club to be placed in the SPL, preferably with a guarantee that whatever their league placing, the champions league spot would be theirs each season.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22405307
The SFA are so quick to act on a minor misdemeanor. Why so slow on all of the major rule breaking carried out surrounding ownership of tribute act?
Perhaps they can’t get past the first in their line of questioning………..”what age is yer grannie?”
Apologies if this has already been posted and discussed
Feed the Bear @Tom_Celt 8h
@alextomo Why did you leave HMS Sevco as it was holed below the waterline? Missing the real story for what reason??
alex thomson @alextomo 7h
@Tom_Celt next few days are vital. If things work the lid may come right off the Sevco shenanigans. Gimme a few days ok?
I wonder what will happen if the genie comes out of the bottle?
oldcobrokemyheartbycheating says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 00:47
9 17 Rate This
Hugh Keevin’s a man who enjoy’s his own voice more than any other, willing to argue the other side of any such argument no matter how ridiculous. But I have to agree with A Thomson he should’nt be banned from Celtic park due to his poor drivel. Surely as fan’s we can just ignore the rubbish spouted by the desperate Glasgow press pack. What have Celtic got to fear from Keevin’s by banning him? Maybe a question in that.
___________________________________________________________________________
Keevins is a midgie – more annoying than anything else but hard not to swat !
Regarding the potential SPL2 breakaway.
My understanding is that the SPL will discuss this issue on Tuesday and have to vote 11-1 to create a second tier for these teams to play in.
Dunfermline are currently in administration and by no means guaranteed to survive the summer (hopefully they do) or to be out of administration in time for next season.
Hearts are sitting with a large debt that MAY be called in suddenly raising the possibility that they could also be forced to take administrative action (hopefully not) leading to them possibly also being still in administration at the start of next season.
So the SPL are being asked to vote for a scenario whereby BOTH their leagues would have at least one team potentially starting the new season on a points deduction and with severely weakened teams. How good a business decision would that be?
If the rumours surrounding Rangers turn out to be even close to the truth, the SPL could not possibly run the risk of inviting a third team with financial problems into their home.
(Having said that, it would not surprise me in the least if they did)
manandboy says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 07:31
Hugh Keevin’s a man who enjoy’s his own voice more than any other, willing to argue the other side of any such argument no matter how ridiculous. But I have to agree with A Thomson he should’nt be banned from Celtic park due to his poor drivel.
====================================================
Wasn’t Keevins banned for printing the deliberate falsehood that Celtic had ‘snubbed’ Sligo Rovers in a match for Sean Fallon, who was still with us at the time. Sean’s family pointed out the story was nonsense and commended Celtic for their treatment of Sean. Keevins claims the ban is for ‘expressing an opinion’ but to me the Sligo Rovers stuff is something other than that.
Scottc
I as you say it’s Tuesday for the vote ,that may explain why sevco have not appeared along with the ten .The SPL vote for the change and when the ten become twelve the SPL 1 clubs can say ,we voted for the change ,it’s up to the SPL 2 as to who makes up the league .
I heard a caller ( a Celtic supporter ) on SSB saying that he was told by the ticket office staff that Celtic will be closing the Lisbon Lions upper next season ,maybe they know the depth of ill feeling about a sevco fast track will cause and are preparing to lose a percentage of their fan base .
I wonder what their guess was for non renewals after the peepil and the suits get their sevco fast track wish .
If Celtic are found to be implicated in any sevco fast track then it will be Celtic that will be left in the S**T and believe me the peepil will not lift a single finger to ease Celtics burden .
upthehoops
that is what I had heard also ,it came about when Sean was picked to unfurl the league flag
If AT wants to know why hacks like keevins fall foul of Celtic ,may I suggest he looks into why Kenny Dalglish felt he had to take his press confrences in Bairds and former Celtic managers felt the need to record press conference’s .
Keevins still talks of Dalglish tarnishing Celtic with his actions ,when he knows fine well why it was necessary
Title Deeds courtesy of Twittr poster:http://thedemiseofrangersinpictures.blogspot.co.uk/
jonnyod says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 07:59
—————————————-
Your story about the Celtic closing part of a stand is factually incorrect and another falsehood run by Radio Clyde on Friday.
Having listened to that part of the podcast, I have doubts as to whether the caller actually is a Celtic supporter at all.
Celtic are relocating some supporters to create a purely family section, nothing sinister in that.
On the contrary, as of Thursday, they had received 10,000 additional enquiries from non-season ticket holders about the new, lower prices on offer. Not all of those will translate into season ticket holders once new applications are invited but I would be surprised if Celtic do not have more season ticket holders next season than they did in 2012/13.
upthehoops says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 07:55
0 0 Rate This
manandboy says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 07:31
Hugh Keevin’s a man who enjoy’s his own voice more than any other, willing to argue the other side of any such argument no matter how ridiculous. But I have to agree with A Thomson he should’nt be banned from Celtic park due to his poor drivel.
____________________________________________________________________________
Permit me a correction, Hoops, but I didn’t say the above, that’s quoted from another poster.
What I did say, was “Keevins is a midgie – more annoying than anything else but hard not to swat !”
But thank you for your own comment re Sean Fallon.
And in light of it I might add that Keevins is at times a rather nasty midgie!
therampantbaron
Thanks for the info ,do you know if anyone from the club has contacted SSB to point this out
Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 08:10
3 0 Rate This
Title Deeds courtesy of Twittr poster:http://thedemiseofrangersinpictures.blogspot.co.uk/
Is this guy RTC?
selfassessor says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 08:38
Guy by the name of @white_italy
Meanwhile CO is left untouched, to continue his protection racket.
I wouldn’t be surprised if, given the depth and complexity of the corruption at Ibrox & Hampden, CO was on it full time.
” TRFC are integral to the future of Scottish Football ” of course, so that’ll make it alright.
Let me just go through my checklist:-
Sectarianism – integral to the future of Scottish Football.
Racism – integral to the future of Scottish Football.
Loyalism – integral to the future of Scottish Football.
Fraud – integral to the future of Scottish Football.
Theft – integral to the future of Scottish Football.
Corrupt Corporate Governance – integral to the future of Scottish Football.
And so much more.
Yes, Campbell has a lot to do to make sure that all the essential elements of TRFC, remain intact for the glorious future of the world’s most corrupt and toxic football club.
And every Scottish media editor has got the message – ‘Do Not Disturb’.
Upthehoops
Keevins was banned for printing tittle tattle about one of the finest Celts ever who was in his nineties and in not very good health. On this occasion , the club have decided on an appropriate sanction, goodness knows the number of journalists the club (and many other clubs) could take umbrage with, however on most occasions it is best to let it wash over you.
No story here I’m afraid, idiot journalist got it wrong would not apologise and bingo shown the door.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 14:21
Forres Dee (@ForresDee) says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 14:18
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 14:11
Today 14:07footsie1000Title Deeds56.50No Opinion
CRAIG WHYTE CONFIRMED AS OWNER OF IBROX & MURRAY PARKToday 14:02footsie1000Imminent departure56.50No Opinion
Walter Smith set to leave the fallen Scottish giants. Storm clouds developing at Ibrox.
Beginning now to look like a windup account.
=====================================
Have we become that cynical to anything about Sevco, that the one thing that most have predicted on here to be true, is immediately shot down as a windup account?
———————————-
too much action…..SFA to act, Walter to go, report shows CW owns assets – all in one go? no chance, clearly a wind up
more likely, maybe report has been finished and is to be published
a couple of months later – walter might think about bolting
a couple of years later – SFA might think about acting
==================================
Having had a while for yesterdays shenanigans to sink in, I’m more of the feeling that when this does go it’ll be like a volcano.
LOTS of people and institutions will be involved and they may all be swallowed up in the aftermath.
Think Pompeii, not enough time to get away!
I agree Forres Dee.
Thomson is implying that it might explode in the next few days too.
Things happen very quickly when they do actually happen.
How short a period it was between Yorkie spouting his usual nonsense to the compliant media and then disappearing in a puff of smoke quickly to be followed by his Asian friend Imran.
Is the Daily Record really hinting that the author of the unsigned plan to turn Rangers into Barca on the Clyde, and get rid of Squire Alastair, was none other than Craig Mather, the new head loon in the Big Asylum?
Surely not…..
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/charles-greens-pal-drew-up-1868422
The idea that a club should not take action to ban a journalist if it is deamed necessary….appears to suggest that regardless of a journalists behaviour they are to be considered untouchable…
I disagree…
I believe any organisation should have the right to refuse entry to their premises…any media individual who has conducted themselves in a way that deems it justified…I would not accept banning someone…because we didn’t like the story…
Keevins is a prime example…and I use the word journalist in it’s widest sense…he has previous…he has deliberatly lied…and refused to correct or apologise for that lie when challenged…where Celtic are concerned..
I fully understand the likes of Alex Thompson standing up for his trade…and he should…but then I would expect Alex and most other journalists would offer an apology if a story they ran was wrong…let alone a deliberate falsehood…
The fact is Keevins is a FUD of the highest order!
paulmac2
I’ll second that HK is a fud of the highest order, a horrible wee weasel of a man and not very good at what he does 😉 that’s why he is employed by SSB and DR, both spout as much drivel as each other regarding the blue lot 🙂
paulmac2 says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 10:20
Outbreak of agreement. I suspect that having a pop at Celtic and Neil Lennon is becoming a national sport in some quarters, you can usually laugh it off as the ramblings of deluded individuals, (e.g. Hately, Keevins, and the rest of the SMSM). Never bothers me in the slightest what these guys come out with …… usually just headline grabbing nonsense.
As you state was it not Keevins who got the Record sued over Martin O’Neil’s ‘job’ with Leeds United, and using Sean Fallon to drive a wedge between the Board and the Supporters was despicable …….. I expect his ban to end at the same time as Gideon wakes up to the carnage of austerity economics.
The Keevin’s banning will also have served notice to the wilder elements of the media to mid their p’s and q’s , as there is a line that can be crossed and there will be consequences, Still it is a difficult job wading through the dross to find something worth being banned for.
upthehoops says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 07:55
===============
Too many people hide behind the “expressing my opinion” or “freedom of speech” nonsense.
Lying is lying, it is not “just expressing an opinion”.
Malicious lying to cause mischief is a perfectly valid reason for banning someone. Sean Fallon was and is a hero to a lot of football supporters, and not just Celtic supporters. Sir Alex, Ferguson gave the eulogy at his funeral.
I have absolutely no issue with Mr Keevins being banned from Celtic Park, he is an embarrassment to himself and his profession. The man is a condescending imbecile.
embarrassinglyneutral says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 20:28
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It’s not the job of the BBC to be a media outlet for Rangers (though some there obviously think it is). That “article” wasn’t an interview, nor an outline of serious plans (the huge fantasy elements discredit that idea). What else is it then and why are they “reporting” it?
If a serious plan, where the real outline of timescale and how it’s to be financed? European championship by 2020? Who is the source for it? It’s just been dumped on the BBC web site with no context or anything. It looks exactly like a puff for Rangers. There is no journalism there. It’s free advertising (paid by us) for a club (since they want to be the same club) which cheated and stole from us. Of course we’ve every right to be p*ssed off at nonsense like that.
It’s the kind of piece you’d expect to find on a corporate web site telling the world how wonderful they are and what great things they’re going to do. Only it’s our money paying for it, attempting to give it credibility it wouldn’t otherwise have as it’s on the BBC.
embarrassinglyneutral says:
Friday, May 3, 2013 at 20:28
monsieurbunny says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 11:06
I don’t entirely agree with your take on the BBC ‘article’ embarrassinglyneutral but you did make some fair points. I hope monsieurbunny’s ravaging does not dishearten you too much. This is exactly the type of debate that provides for entertaining reading and taking a neutral perspective can sometimes reveal angles that would otherwise not have been explored.
I may not agree what you have said but you have every right to state it.
I have no time whatsoever for HK, SSB and their like but I never like to hear about journalists being banned from clubs and stadiums. Perhaps using the word ‘journalist’ is a tad generous, but I digress. In this particular case I think the ban is counter productive: HK is still able to waffle on in the papers and on SSB regardless and wears the ban as a badge of honour.
If journalists speak or print lies then clubs should either sue them or ignore them.
It is also worth noting that if the fraternity of sports journalists had an ounce of credibility or spine they would walk out en masse when one of their number is subjected to this kind of ban.
Oh dear
Is it a Star Wars Day at ibrox today
May the Fourth be with you
I’ll get ma space suit
From the Sun, re. McCoists necessity to build a new team
.. he insists he would have no problem splashing the cash as he looks to bring in an entire new team.He said: “If I’m being totally selfish about it, I’d have to spend it to get out of the division and keep me in a job, along with Kenny McDowall and Ian Durrant.’
This must fill the TRFC support with optimism and says a lot about McCoists man-management – I need the money to keep me & ma mates in a job’
Keep up the good work Sally.
mullach says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 11:18
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I’m amused by the idea that the “ravagings” of a rabbit will dishearten other posters. I never suggested the poster wasn’t entitled to their opinion – I guess my anger at the BBC made it seem I was having a go at embarrassinglyneutral but I wasn’t really. But I do think he/she is missing the point about that so called article and it’s a mistake to treat it as merely a piece of misguided reporting. I think it’s a very deliberate piece.
loamfeet says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 11:25
If the print media writers walked out en masse as you suggest then quite frankly they would be no loss.
I can think of none of them currently worth reading.
As I have said previously I used to enjoy Graham Spiers’ work, sadly not for quite some time now. He is just a slightly more eloquent version of the low standard tabloid press we have in this country.
I actually do listen to some of them on radio now, 25m minutes in the car driving home. They speak with authority on issues they clearly don’t understand. Just so you know chaps, matters like administration, CVAs, liquidation, winding up are not a matter of opinion. Whether Hugh Keevins, Derek Johnston, Mark Guidi et al have formed an opinion that happens to suit their agenda, twisting the facts and re-writing history to suit that agenda is irrelevant.
If you don’t understand a subject it’s OK to say that, then go and learn about it if you want to discuss it. Repeating things which are wrong, over and over, is simply not an acceptable way to behave.
That’s just my opinion obviously.
loamfeet says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 11:25
Well said.
Whether Keevo is horrible or not is irrelevant.
If one club can ban a journalist for writing something they don’t like, so can another, and another. Making an exception because it’s a club you like and a journalist you dislike is desperately shortsighted, unprincipled, and contributes to the succulent lamb culture you find so distasteful.
Shame on you who excuse or approve of banning journalists. And you didn’t even get any of the lamb.
Night Terror says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 12:13
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Well said more articulate than I could put it across, Surely civil action through the courts chasing lies would be more productive?
Cut out the v poor verbiage from CG`s `investor friend` – strips down so;
The way forward – in `full`
Philosophy
If in the top league – We would adapt the philosophy of:
All players would be coached on football. This would require some major changes, and result in some casualties.
Our Vision…..
The objective of the club would be to develop young talent. Another objective is to selling them on to the rich clubs across Europe. This money would then be `reinvested`
That`s about it really 😉
Questions a (more) discerning media journalist might have asked Mr McCoist to make a far more relevant article to TRFC supporters ;
Ally, do you know if the money is in the bank account and what have you done to find out ?
The old Rangers spent money that was never there and we all know where that took the club – why would you be so determined to spend money that could be directed into scouting, youth development, stadium improvements etc ?
You wouldn’t need to spend a fraction of investment in comparison to other clubs to walk the second division, with respect – so why a new team that is already full of SPL players ?
Would you walk if the money wasn’t there ?
What do you make of the Rangers ‘plan’ for the future – you’re not in it, how do you reconcile that ?
Is spending circa £10m – even if it is available – on players not sheer folly given you are playing in the second division with so many legal wranglings swirling about the club that could bring it to its knees ?
Players under the old club were able to walk away when the old club was liquidated – whats to stop this happening if this happens again if you have brought in ‘premium’ players ?
The Rangers fans have welcomed you not walking away – a lot now are suggesting they would give you a lift ? Any self doubt about your abilities as a football manager ?
Mr Brown has raised questions about your knowledge of what was going on behimd the scenes – how much do you know ?
Do you have shares in Greggs ? ( Wouldn’t ask this one but would love to !)
Confirmation at Companies House this morning that the Sevco 5088 Limited striking-off proposal has been suspended.
BillyBhoy68 @BillyBhoy68 6m
@white_italy I’ve got a screenshot here. Filed this morning.
http://i.imgur.com/3PloI4Q.jpg
Night Terror says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 12:13
Banning Hugh Keevins for printing lies about the club is not the same as banning a journalist.
Freedom of expression is indeed a right, but it is not an unqualified right, it can have ramifications.
Ask Abu Hamza.
And also, people write things that I’m sure football clubs don’t like all of the time. they are not banned for doing that. However there has to come a time when any club simply feels a specific writer has crossed the proverbial line. They have every right to then ban them from access to their ground, players and staff.
I see there is a bit of crap stirring about Keevins,If any man has his lies pointed out to him and he does not retract or apologise why oh why would you allow him back into your house/club/business again? Are people really suggesting that it does not matter what is said and done against them because the culprit is a feckin reporter? They are supposed to be the arbiters of truth,people will believe what they write, when the mistakes are pointed out to them they have a Duty to set things right. We all know Keevins has a problem with Celtic,good luck to him,but that does not excuse deliberate lies told solely for some sort of revenge.
To me Keevins ban is justified because he will not apologise,not because he is an ignorant little turd.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 13:18
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Do you happen to know if only certain people can register an objection, for example a shareholder or office bearer, or can anyone.
BBC asked to leave Ibrox before kickoff and barred from any broadcast.
Night Terror, Loamfeet
I think there must be a limit to what a club puts up with; otherwise, you allow someone to say anything about anyone in a club, or about the club itself, no matter how offensive, and that person can then attend a game at that club and be a constant reminder of those offensive comments.
Banning may seem harsh, but I just think there must be a point where it becomes justified. Not wanting to dwell on a particular instance, just curious if you think there really are no limits.
Tic 6709 says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 13:24
I think I can speak for all of us ignorant little turds when I say I strongly object to that comparison.
chipm0nk says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 13:33
Quantcast
Tic 6709 says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 13:24
I think I can speak for all of us ignorant little turds when I say I strongly object to that comparison.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Sorry chipmOnk ,but I really don’t think you’re in his class.
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 13:31
BBC asked to leave Ibrox before kickoff and barred from any broadcast.
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Do we know the reason why?
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 13:31
‘BBC asked to leave Ibrox before kickoff and barred from any broadcast.’
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I heard that, but I missed the reason. Which story did they report that got them chipped out?
The Beeb ban was down to Chris McLaughlin’s exclusive yesterday, with all the Minty Moonbeams stuff from the leaked report, according to Richard Gordon.
john clarke says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 13:44
0 0 Rate This
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 13:31
‘BBC asked to leave Ibrox before kickoff and barred from any broadcast.’
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I heard that, but I missed the reason. Which story did they report that got them chipped out?
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I believe it was yesterdays moonbeams stuff,which would suggest that Walter and Ally are indeed trying to take over without putting a penny in!
Araminta Moonbeam QC says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 13:50
The Beeb ban was down to Chris McLaughlin’s exclusive yesterday, with all the Minty Moonbeams stuff from the leaked report, according to Richard Gordon.
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Just so I am clear…someone (take a guess) at SEVCO provided Chris with this document…and then ban his employers for printing it?….is that about right?
Paulmac2
Correct.
nostarsandbarred says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 13:32
I think there must be a limit to what a club puts up with;
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I totally agree. If Keevins printed lies then Celtic should take him and his paper to court. That is the mechanism we have in this country for ensuring that the good names of people and companies are not dragged through the mud. Personally I wish that all clubs took far more of a stance over the pish that the papers print, but equally I think that we have to ensure that genuine opinion, even if it reeks, is left alone.
Most of Keevin’s output should be treated with derision and ignored. The small amount that is actionable should be acted upon with a writ. Simply banning him from grounds does nothing to stop him talking and printing pish.
In case anyone is interested, here is the Celtic / Fallon Family position.
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CELTIC Football Club is delighted to announce that club legend Sean Fallon has agreed to join Celtic chairman Ian Bankier in unfurling the League Championship flag on August 4, making it a 90th birthday celebration to remember for Sean. Sean Fallon is one of Celtic´s greatest servants and he celebrates his 90th birthday on July 31, 2012. Sean’s son, Sean junior, said: “The whole family is absolutely delighted at this gesture. My father is over the moon at being asked to do this and I know he will be a very proud man on August 4.”
A story in a Scottish Sunday newspaper last weekend suggested that Celtic had refused to take part in a friendly match against Sligo Rovers this summer to mark the 90th birthday of the former Celtic player and assistant manager. However the family was keen to clarify this and Sean junior added: “The Fallon family has an excellent relationship with Celtic and with our many friends at the club.
“It’s extremely disappointing that a newspaper could have potentially soured this relationship by printing such an inaccurate and ill-informed story. “We fully understand that Celtic cannot schedule this fixture at present due to pre-season commitments.”
A spokesperson for Celtic said: “Sean Fallon is an extremely popular Celt and one whose magnificent contribution to Celtic’s history is greatly appreciated. “Any suggestion that the club have snubbed Sean by refusing to take part in a friendly match with Sligo is completely untrue and that particular story has caused needless upset to Sean and his family. “We were always planning to honour Sean on his 90th birthday and on August 4, as well as marking our League Championship success before our game against Aberdeen, our supporters will come together to celebrate the huge contribution made to Celtic by one of the club´s greatest sons.”
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As far as I am aware there was never any retraction or apology from the paper in question.
paulmac2-
It will have been the spiv faction on the Sevco board that provided McLaughlin with the document. The Green Dream document was designed to tell the fans exactly what they wanted to hear and to undermine the Old Guard- including McCoist. That will have pissed off the Old Guard and Malcolm Murray will probably have been the one who sent the BBC packing.
Everyone from the BBC except a certain St Mirren supporter (no laughing at the back please), Chic Young.
paulmac2 says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 13:56
Someone formerly, or in the process of leaving Rangers, leaked it. There were multiple targets, Sir Walter d’Ebt, his trusty squire and the new head loon.
Seems Mr Whyte is not the only one interested in sapping the foundations, I wonder if further charges are being planted?
Fortunately for Celtic, there is no beginning to Mr Keevin’s journalistic talents, so banning him, whilst foolish, was relatively risk free. Not sure the same can be said about Aunty, time to get the handbag out!
TheTributeAct (@TheTributeAct) says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 14:08
‘.. Malcolm Murray will probably have been the one who sent the BBC packing..’
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He may have given the order, but it was that Judas of a turncoat , James Traynor, who actually asked Mc Laughlin to leave!
TheTributeAct (@TheTributeAct) says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 14:08
With the Man who would be King in the mix, how can you possibly tell the spiv faction from the other faction(s)?
nowoldandgrumpy says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 14:09
Everyone from the BBC except a certain St Mirren supporter (no laughing at the back please), Chic Young.
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Is that true nowoag?
chipm0nk says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 14:05
As far as I am aware there was never any retraction or apology from the paper in question.
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Was there a complaint made to the PCC by the club or the family? Was the matter taken to court? Maybe the club and the family judged that doing either of these things would be pouring gasoline onto the flames. I imagine it must be a difficult decision to make.
Regardless, I wouldn’t waste any breath waiting for the papers to act unilaterally out of a sense of nobility or duty.
Hearts are reporting a £1.65million loss for last year, that’s still less than rangers lose a month, go figure
http://www.scotsman.com/news/hearts-report-1-65million-loss-1-2920534?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed