Scottish Football and the case for a Bismarck!

Bybroganrogantrevinoandhogan

Scottish Football and the case for a Bismarck!

Good Evening.

When considering any type of protracted negotiation or discussion that seems to be going on too long, there is a story that is always worth remembering– whether it is actually a true story or not as the case may be.

It is said, that heads of state all met at a congress in what is now modern Germany sometime after the Franco Prussian war of 1870-1871.The entire congress was being run almost singlehandedly by the then Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismark and he was keen to get all the necessary signatures on paper to seal some deal or other.

However, others at the congress were not too keen to sign up to certain elements of the proposed deal and so they hithered and dithered and in the eyes of Bismark they simply waisted time by concentrating on the minutiae- the little matters, with a view to ensuring their own interests were best served in these small areas– and did not focus on the big issue.

Having tried to talk these others round and educate them in his own beliefs and point of view on the bigger picture without any success, Bismark grew weary of the continuing delay and the posturing of his colleagues. All attempts at reason and diplomacy had failed in his eyes and so he decided to take a different tack.

Accordingly, it is said that whilst others were still inside debating endlessly on this matter or that, Bismark left the building and began simply shooting the windows in with the aid of a riffle which he just happened to have handy.

Those inside were naturally alarmed at this turn of events. They soon forgot about the minutiae under debate, they abandoned the previously expressed self interest and simply signed up so that they could get away from the mad chancellor and his house.

Job done so to speak.

Whilst I do not in anyway condone the behaviour of Otto von Bismark in this instance, and have no doubt that he was an autocrat, what I will say is that he believed that there was too much time being spent on the unimportant stuff and not enough time recognising what really needed doing– from his point of view of course.

Today– and it seems every day for months— we have endless debate about the future of Scottish Football. League reconstruction and the redistribution of footballing wealth has become a marathon– even before it has started.

Yet I believe that at the moment all parties concerned are not focusing on the radical reform that is fundamentally needed which is the creation of one, strong, properly structured and constituted body which is capable of the proper and ethical governance of Scottish Football and the business that surrounds football.

No matter what system you try, or distribution you agree, without proper sensible strong governance you are wasting your time.

Further, whatever body is set up, and whoever is chosen to be its CEO (or whatever the head honcho is going to be called), they must tackle the issue of corporate and fiscal compliance and the proper administration of any body corporate which actively takes part in Scottish Football– and that includes any such body or person who is involved in the running of a member club.

In addition, in so dealing with any corporate malfeasance or chicanery or whatever, the rules have to be applied with a rod of iron by an iron body.

As we can now clearly see, Football clubs and football in general is not, and never will be, immune from the effects of bad corporate governance and on occasion downright manipulation of facts, figures and contracts.

Whilst great play has been made of the fact that Gavin Masterton has handed over his shares in Dunfermline FC ( or its holding company ) the fact of the matter is that this in no way solves the problem faced by the football club. Whoever gains control of that club will still have to rent the ground from Mr Masterton’s company– and it is a rent that the club may just not be able to afford.

Ever!

It is only my opinion of course, but I am of the view that Mr Masterton has sealed a loan deal with his bankers which is of a type and duration which could not normally be achieved by other borrowers. The Loan has a lengthy period during which no repayments are necessary and interest can continue to accrue.

All very good you may say, but the level of debt concerned is not one that appears to be sustainable by Dunfermline FC and so whoever buys the club as a going concern ( if anyone buys it at all ) will have to pay an agreed rental to Gavin Masterton– and if the rental is not sufficient to repay Mr Masterton’s lenders, then I suspect that the end game here will be a search to find a buyer for the ground at some point over the next twenty years or so, with the hope that as part of the deal a space will be found somewhere for a new ground like New St Mirren park– the difference being that in that instance St Mirren were in charge of their future whereas Dunfermline are not.

The Governance of that club and the financial arrangements behind the club should have been looked at and examined by the SFA long before now– and the Dunfermline fans warned about the dangers of any such arrangements. Effectively those finance arrangements, should they continue, will probably mean that the club will have no option but to move from its established home!

All to suit one man!

Thankfully Dundee were spared a full takeover by Giovanni Di Stefano, however is it not a bit worrying that this man who has been jailed for over 14 years for various fraudulent acts, was allowed to roam around Scottish Football for a prolonged period?

Not so long ago Di Stefano did play a part at Dens, was in line to buy almost 30% of the shareholding, and was oft quoted in the papers and so on. The thing is that there were those who were prepared to give him a place at the Dundee table and in so doing invited him into Scottish Football.

Surely the SFA, had they been inclined to, could quite easily have pointed out that many of the claims of Mr Di Stefano were at least dubious if not completely incorrect? Yet nothing was being said at the time and silence prevailed.

Whilst not in the same calibre as Di Dtefano, Vladimir Romanov has now been at Hearts for a prolonged period. While I have no quibbles about the legality of Romanov’s takeover of Hearts, any money of a sizeable size which is transferred into Scotland from a foreign country will be subject to scrutiny by the Crown office to ensure that it is clean. Lithuania in particular is said to have a banking system which is governed loosely and sometimes does not meet the compliance standards expected in this country.

With his bank having gone bust, Romanov still retains the majority shareholding at Tynecastle, but there are questions still to be answered about what has happened at Hearts but life will be very different for the Edinburgh club going forward.

Again– could the SFA have done more to monitor the situation and could they have demanded clarity and detail from the Hearts owner as to his business dealings and the detailed arrangements with his bank?

At Ibrox, well things just go from the weird and inexplicable to downright astonishing– and all through a tremendous amount of smoke and mirrors.

It is clear that the SFA have no idea what to believe from Charles Green or for that matter Craig Whyte. On the face of it, there are clear links between Whyte and Green with the former paying over a six figure sum in return for absolutely nothing it would appear– with similar transactions going between Whyte’s colleague, Aiden Early, and Charles Green.

What is clear is that Green gave a clear undertaking to the SFA that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Whyte and would have nothing to do with Whyte going forward. Now, at the very least he is admitting that he met Whyte on several occasions, and whilst he may have made representations to Craig Whyte— these were all lies designed only to get Whyte to where Green wanted him.

This is hardly the act of someone who has been bona fides in his business dealings either with Whyte or with the SFA as the licensing body.

It is against this background that the Scottish Football Agencies need to wake up before they find the fans of the game ( at least those who want to stay interested in the game ) doing a Bismarck and panning in the windows of this whole house of cards.

Football Clubs, football fans, and indeed football itself needs protected from the financial and corporate shenanigans, and the governing body must be much more active and permanently vigilant in watching out for and if necessary anticipating the people and the transactions which have and will jeopardise clubs and the game in general going forward.

It is clearly no longer acceptable to rely on self regulation or mere declarations and undertakings from the clubs themselves. The Administrators must be much more active and employ far greater professional expertise in carrying out an almost constant analytical and reporting function in relation to club finance and corporate regulation.

All and any changes in funding, boardroom changes, investor changes and anything else major should be the subject of immediate and proper scrutiny by the SFA and there should be fair, immediate and stiff sanctions for non compliance, and any type of dilatory behaviour on the part of club officials who would seek to conceal the truth or who fail to properly disclose vital matters which should be out in the open.

Further, the funding detail– such as the never ending loan re Dunfermline should be a matter of public record in all its detail so that fans and investors can make information based value judgements when dealing with any club.

Such stiffer regulation should not develop into anything like a corporate witch hunt or any kind of draconian big brother syndrome, however the need for change given all of the current troubles is obvious to one and all.

Further, the attempted fudge surrounding Rangers league status last summer and the ongoing disquiet surrounding the position of Campbell Ogilvie does nothing to boost faith in and the reputation of Football Administration in Scotland.

Things are far from clear and there appears to be continual dithering and fudging. No one has any idea where the Nimmo Smith Report has gone nor what import it is to have— if any. Why is that?

Dithering and bumbling over detail is no longer an option. Strong clear governance is required to protect the game from being hijacked by those who have their own corporate and financial agendas.

Such people cannot be allowed to determine the way Scottish Football runs  or to conduct themselves in a fashion that leaves football and everyone involved in limbo.

It is time for Scottish Football to find its own Iron Chancellor!  There is a need for someone who will, if necessary, come along and shoot the lights out of any club or Company Director who wishes to play fast and loose with the game of football.

About the author

broganrogantrevinoandhogan author

Boot wearing football, sport & total nonsense fan-- Gourmet, Bon Viveur and eedgit! - Oh and I write a bit occasionally!

5,402 Comments so far

TaysiderPosted on12:10 am - May 5, 2013


I’m puzzled by this expression “we are the people.” Who does it refer to? Is it we are the tax cheats? We are the corporate psychopaths? We are the spivs? We are the racists? Which is it?. Who are these “people?” I demand to know!

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BrendaPosted on12:12 am - May 5, 2013


Just watched superdooperally’s ‘title-winning speech’ ouch the interviewer was so ‘overwhelmed’ he fluffed his lines and the wee boy superdooperally was holding in his arms called someone in the vicinity a weirdo??? But he got the all important ‘peepil’ phrase in just to make sure the £££££ come flooding in!!!

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goosyPosted on12:33 am - May 5, 2013


Whyte and Earley passed a Board decision to sell Sevco5088 to Worthingtons for £250k
RIFC issued a statement saying Sevco 5088 was a subsidary of RIFC To legitimise the Asset Sale Agreement RIFC must have intended this statement to mean that Sevco 5088 was wholly owned by Sevco Scotland
Yet despite RIFC claiming they owned Sevco5088 they made no mention of this “fact” until Whyte sold Sevco5088 under their noses
12months after being incorporated
Sevco 5088 is still not described at Companies House as being a subsidiary of any other company
Nor was Sevco 5088 ever listed as a subsidiary of TRFC in the IPO Prospectus
More significantly
If you owned a company and someone else sold it for £250k would you not consider that a tad offensive?
Maybe warranting a lawyers letter ?
Especially when the buyer issued an RNS to the AIM Market announcing he had purchased one of your companies from a 3rd party?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Is this what next weeks furore will be about?

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Palacio67Posted on12:35 am - May 5, 2013


Any links Brenda?

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nowoldandgrumpyPosted on12:48 am - May 5, 2013


By ANDREW SMITH AND MOIRA GORDON
Published on 05/05/2013 00:00

REBEL First Division clubs are considering proposing a vote of no confidence in the Scottish Football League’s board of management.

Eight First Division clubs plus Second Division champions Queen of the South have already indicated their intention to resign from the SFL.

They would be joined by Dundee if the Dens Park club is relegated from the Scottish Premier League and the ten would then attempt to form a second-tier SPL.

However, such is the level of their dissatisfaction, the dissident clubs want to oust the SFL hierarchy. The board of management is led by president Jim Ballantyne (Airdrie United), vice-president Ewen Cameron (Alloa Athletic) and chief executive David Longmuir.

The disaffected clubs are understood to be frustrated at the slow place of change as they seek a shake-up of league football and more equitable distribution of monies.

Scottish Premier League clubs will meet on Tuesday and are expected to welcome the First Division renegades into the fold as they attempt to keep plans for league reconstruction moving forward. But the SPL will not be extending an invitation to Rangers to join their ranks, according to one senior source

The breakaway is likely to go ahead, provided play-offs are agreed as a 
primary part of the two-tier rejig. And, with Ross County expected to vote in favour of play-offs, the required 11-1 majority is expected.

Longmuir has questioned the wisdom of the proposed breakaway, branding it “desperate”, and has made it clear that his organisation is unlikely to allow clubs to quit without a fight.

He insists that the move would see the renegades lose out on the 
£1.8 million annual settlement which is paid by the SPL to the SFL sides and he questioned whether there would be a financial benefit in quitting the SFL, where they also get a share of Rangers’ TV monies and League Cup takings.

But one SPL insider believes the breakaway will happen – provided play-offs are part of the deal.

“At the very least this has been a shot across the bows of the SFL and shows how strongly people want to push through some form of reconstruction in time for next year,” said the source. “We have all spent a lot of time trying to find the a suitable consensus and I don’t think the desire was there to wait another year.

“The play-offs would create more interest and more meaningful games. One of the proposals would see the top four clubs in the new First Division involved and that is attractive to everyone, including SPL clubs because everyone knows that if they go down, then there is a greater chance to come back up at the earliest opportunity.

“But I don’t see Rangers being invited to join us. I know it would probably give us a more attractive commercial package but I don’t see people voting in favour of that.”

The previous proposal of 12-12-18 fell at the first hurdle when Ross County and St Mirren voted against and, if the latest suggestion is to include changes in the distribution of wealth, another 11-1 majority will be required.

“But this time, I would be more hopeful of it going through because Ross County have made it clear they look favourably on play-offs being introduced so, if that was part of the package, and I think we would all want that to be the case, then that would be a shift in votes,” the insider said.

“Reading the papers, it would seem that Stewart Gilmour also wants play-offs so he might change his vote as well.”

While stating that the feeling is that any league restructuring would ideally involve all professional clubs, one compromise that has been mooted is the staggering of that, with the willing parties jumping ship this summer and the rest being brought under the same umbrella a year later.

“Clubs are struggling and want to find a way of staying full-time and those that don’t want to be part of that, that’s fine, but we can’t let them hold everyone else back.”

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BrendaPosted on12:49 am - May 5, 2013


No sorry, was posted on a friend’s Facebook page you’ll probably get it on you tube 🙂 amcc end of season speech vs Berwick

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justshateredPosted on12:54 am - May 5, 2013


theglen2012 says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 00:09

This is one of the problems I’ve got with this whole debacle as well.
No one in any of our myriad of governing bodies will simply take responsibility and yet incredibly everyone remains in a job.
Three bodies running our sport and achieving nothing,

Everyone keeps saying ‘we need to move on’, Longmuir used the phrase today, and it has been used all year yet our sport has been in a state of utter paralysis now for almost twenty years. Therefore it can’t move anywhere.

Longmuir now presides over an organisation that is fractured but he hides behind the SFL board.

Nobody seems capable of learning any lessons in this; clubs continue to run unsustainable business models losing money hand over fist in the process and this has been going on for years.

If the people running our sport cannot get this basic check in place after what has happened in Scottish football in the last fifteen months the frankly none of them deserve to be in a job.

Still the fans are being told that everything will be fine if we promote a team losing £1M a month.
How will it be fine when the club has said it will boycott all away games so there will be even less money going about. The TV contract will remain the same so who will benefit from this proposed decision? Certainly not the other clubs but the one promoted before its time will or will it? To remain, or win the league, they will have to spend and pay more on wages leading to larger loses and so the cycle of unsustainable business models starts all over again.

I really cannot see how this cycle can be broken except by steam lining our governing bodies and bringing in rules on fiscal management but turkeys ain’t gonna vote for Christmas.

And let’s face it Scottish football is awash with turkeys!

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Palacio67Posted on12:58 am - May 5, 2013


Thanks Brenda, Will check it out tomorrow, might have problems sleeping after watching. 🙂

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manandboyPosted on1:05 am - May 5, 2013


internetbampots says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 22:21

“Scottish football is not in a position to cast aside 40k supporters a fortnight or their travelling support”
_________________________________________________________________________

This statement could have been made on any day in the past twenty years

and very few people, if any, would have disagreed with it.

But it would still have been false.

It was false then, it is false now, and it will remain so in the future.

Without TRFC, Scottish Football would be happier, healthier and financially better off.

And we would have a very different SFA !

It’s a no brainer, as they say nowadays.

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Jack JarvisPosted on1:48 am - May 5, 2013


nowoldandgrumpy says:

Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 22:20
This man is so happy his team have won their first trophy.

http://alturl.com/zztvi
—————————————————————————————————–

Longmuir coming out of the tunnel and on to the park with the cup is a masterclass in self discipline. Every fibre of his body is being stretched to breaking point just to prevent him from hoisting the thing over his head in a triumphant salute to the masses. He is simultaneously ecstatic and tormented. As hilarious as it is nauseating.

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on7:32 am - May 5, 2013


timtim on Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 22:47
66 3 Rate This
Congratulations to Peterhead -the true Champions of the SFL3
A convincing win against my team today 0-3 on a level playing field
We both now must battle it out in the playoffs with Berwick and Albion Rovers
to see who takes that final place in SFL2 for next season .
I hope that it is Peterhead who capture it for it is they who have been denied
the automatic right to proceed by Special FC ,their £7m superstars and their
inclusion within our league that they were not entitled to .
Ludere Causa Ludendi

###########################

Well said. I’m frustrated that there is even debate on the merits of giving TRFC a leg up when Sevco were allowed in Div 3 on the back of a couple bounce games in a public park, owning the assets of a club going into liquidation due to financial mismanagement and the belief that having a large support guarantees financial stability for them and the Scottish game. Any football club in the country had more merit than Sevco (who appear to have learned little from the financial lesson of Rangers’ liquidation – not least because they are a vehicle for carpet baggers). The authorities and the clubs got this wrong but it appears it’s not as wrong as a leg up towards the big(ger) boys.

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upthehoopsPosted on8:03 am - May 5, 2013


Just listened to Sportsound Extra on the i-player. Graham Spiers is like a broken record with his ‘wanting Rangers back to the very top’ stance but at least he points out the truth regarding their status as a club as advised by insolvency experts. Only the SFA and SFL can fully explain why they saw the need to gerrymander a situation which allows Rangers to claim they are the same club, but it makes a complete mockery of the notion these organisations somehow worked against Rangers.

On another note, despite its flaws I personally take my hat off to Sportsound Extra and the level of articulate debate generated compared to Radio Clyde. I am no regular Clyde listener but I listened to the first 20 minutes of their phone in last night. Some of the callers sounded barely literate and the panel acted as nothing other than cheerleaders for Rangers and McCoist. It was totally cringeworthy. I fail to see why any non-Rangers fans would torture themselves on a daily basis listening to such utter nonsense.

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Long Time LurkerPosted on8:15 am - May 5, 2013


I thought that part of the journey was about making new friends.

Appears not: AMcC uttering “…we are the only club in the world that could do that – we are the people”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTfwkU3gROw

I agree that you are the only club in the world that could:

* Run up tens of millions of pounds of debt (unpaid) and re-emerge as if nothing has happened
* Continue to make the same financial mistakes – spending what you cannot afford
* Play in a stadium where the ownership is disputed
* Present to the SFA a financial play for season 2012/13 that burns c£1 – 2.5m per month
* Have a management team that encourages fans to invest in the club – where ownership of the assets is far from certain
* Refuse to be thankful that you had a second chance, play football and just get on with it without playing the victim card

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Danish PastryPosted on8:20 am - May 5, 2013


parmahamster says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 17:48
14 0 Rate This

Long Time Lurker says:

Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 16:45
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Far too many big words for wee Chick to digest in that section of the Eye.
—————

Possibly true @parma, though listening to him he sounds like a man who was brought up under the tutelage of the Eye’s legendary sportshack, Lunchtime O’Booze, who has been described – not unfairly – as a ‘legend in his own lunchtime’ 😀

Ron Knee is 69.

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scottcPosted on8:20 am - May 5, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 21:31
35 3 Rate This
Spot the difference

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re the pic of The Rangers celebrations at winning SFL Division 3. I thought that looked a bit unusual when I saw the pictures yesterday, so had a wee look at QoS winning the Second

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67282000/jpg/_67282797_queens.jpg

Interesting, I thought. Partick Thistle seemed to get just ‘Champions’ with no mention of Division One, but then that would be correct as they are SFL League Champions.

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twopandaPosted on8:23 am - May 5, 2013


Very odd this BBC ban for publishing an `internal leak`. & tommo here;
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-ban-bbc/4822

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liveinhopPosted on8:31 am - May 5, 2013


http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/leaguedivision3/4915690/Hes-no-bright-spark.html

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TartawulverPosted on8:39 am - May 5, 2013


Still nothing on BBC news sites regarding their ban from Ibrox? Covered by other news organisations but missed by the BBC a day on? Please someone post the link to the BBC’s coverage of this, I’m starting to lose my faith in the objectivity of even the ‘quality’ end of the news media. Utter humiliation for the Beeb to be the story yet get scooped by C4.

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therampantbaronPosted on8:40 am - May 5, 2013


Jack Jarvis says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 01:48
————————————-
Yes and the remarkable thing is that at all major presentations, everything including the trophy is brought out onto the pitch by league lackeys and set up, just waiting for the “dignitaries” to come out and make the presentation.

I challenge anyone to find an instance where the chairman of the league body actually came on to the pitch carrying the trophy. Another real John Terry moment is that TRFC and Longmuir agreed that the words “Third Division” be removed from the stand, so that it just reads “Champions 2012/13”

Dignified indeed, nae, “phenomenal” ! To coin a phrase, Ross County won the Third Division once, but they don’t go on about it….

TRFC have done well for a brand new club but they really need to work their way up the leagues, like every other professional football club in the world has to do.

Ignore “sporting integrity”, the word you need is “merit”

Graham Speirs keeps saying any new league has to be set up on merit and then seamlessly adds “but how you would not invite Rangers?”

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vforvernacularPosted on8:50 am - May 5, 2013


TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 08:39
0 0 Rate This
Still nothing on BBC news sites regarding their ban from Ibrox? Covered by other news organisations but missed by the BBC a day on? Please someone post the link to the BBC’s coverage of this, I’m starting to lose my faith in the objectivity of even the ‘quality’ end of the news media. Utter humiliation for the Beeb to be the story yet get scooped by C4.

=====================

Could it be they are awaiting legal advice before making any further comment or report? To remove the BBC from the game may have been a breach of contract?

What will also be interesting is whether we see them give any other sort of coverage to Rangers over the next few weeks and days – or do they just ignore them now?

No idea what Chic will do with himself if the Beeb decide to give Rangers a wide berth for a while.

One last thing, is it just me or did the Sportsounds team imply that Chic was at Ibrox yesterday in a non-professional capacity but simply to enjoy his team lifting the trophy and the after party? Why do they allow him to persist with this St Mirren nonsense?

Given the complete lack of anything insightful, interesting or frankly factually accurate to say it really is time for the old fool to be moved on, he serves no purpose at all.

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yakutsukiPosted on9:04 am - May 5, 2013


therampantbaron says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 08:40
=====================================

Is that true? They displayed ‘Champions 2012/2013’ from the stands, and just removed ‘3rd division SFL?’ (The embarrassing bit)

Wow, just WOW!

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ZilchPosted on9:11 am - May 5, 2013


Graham Speirs – the voice of reason in Scottish Football??

Repetition of his fast-track the Gers mantra – more like the voice of the Ibrox Loyal?

Funny how an articulate and intelligent guy like Speirs doesn’t appear to get the parallels with his own business.

He propagates the spurious argument that Scottish Football, as a business, cannot live without the Ibrox masses and the cash they allegedly bring. What he either fails to get, or deliberately ignores, is that as a business, Scottish Football needs to protect the quality of its product above all else.

Punters like us put our money into the game to be involved in a sport that we love. And it is sport that we enjoy. And sport demands a level playing field where all participants are treated equally and rules of the game are followed. Failure to ensure these most simple of sporting obligations destroys the ‘product’.

Which brings us to the once-noble trade of journalism and the blindingly obvious parallel.

It seems like the hacks believe that their job is to sell newspapers, and advertising for talk shows on the radio. This may well be their business, but it is not their product. Their product is what they write and say.

Punters like us put our money into papers and media expecting to receive reliable information and informed commentary. Failure to provide either destroys the ‘product’.

Is it any wonder that newspaper circulation is flat-lining?

Perhaps the MSM believe that the Ibrox loyal can be milked in such quantities as to make the rest of the Scottish football readers irrelevant.

For me, that puts the MSM in much the same category as the spivs who are taking the Ibrox fans for fools and bleeding them dry. Again.

Mr Speirs. Do the Rangers fans a favour. Tell them the truth. They may not thank you for it. But they ought to hear it before they start buying the next round of season tickets.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on9:38 am - May 5, 2013


McCoist confirmed Gers will use their pre-season visits to the USA and Germany to run the rule over trialists. He said: “We have targets and I’m hopeful to get one or two over the line in the next couple of days.

==============================================
Who’s footing the bill for this jamboree?.
Will it even go ahead?.

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timtimPosted on9:39 am - May 5, 2013


Rfc* 2-2 Peterhead
Rfc* 1-1 Berwick
Rfc* 0-0 Annan
Rfc* 0-1 Stirling Albion
Rfc* 1-1 Elgin
Rfc* 1-1 Montrose
Rfc* 1-1 Stirling Albion
Rfc* 1-2 Annan
Rfc* 0-0 Stirling Albion
Rfc* 0-0 Montrose
Rfc* 1-2 Peterhead
Rfc* 0-3 Dundee Utd
Rfc* 0-3 Inverness CT
Rfc* 3-4 QOS

Ally says ” I need the £10m transfer budget to keep me, Durranty and McDowell in a job”
Well nice to see you have your priorities right -you and your pals are the priority
Time for some reflection and a touch of humility Mr McCoist
That money would be better invested in a Cypriot bank
Thanks for all the laughs this season
see you next season for more of the same ? (or maybe not )

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parmahamsterPosted on9:53 am - May 5, 2013


timtim says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 09:39
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

McCoist does not do humility.
McCoist does not do reflection.
McCoist does not do insight.
McCoist does not do the big picture.

McCoist does do ignorance.
McCoist does do pandering.
McCoist does do self-obsession.
McCoist does do deflecting blame.

McCoist WILL do walking away – and soon – if Mather is for real in ensuring that TributeAct FC is run on the tightest lines possible. And he knows it, but first them season books need to be sold to pay his (and Durranty and Kenny’s) payoff first.

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twopandaPosted on10:06 am - May 5, 2013


timtim says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 09:39

You missed the opposition regularly reduced to 10 men 😉

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timtimPosted on10:09 am - May 5, 2013


I was too busy practising for the crossbar challenge

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SmugasPosted on10:09 am - May 5, 2013


Interesting positioning given other events in the last week. I still can’t quite get my head around the SPL2 and where all this “creation of wealth” is going to come from – do play-offs seriously add that much commercial attractiveness over and above the existing package. Redistribution yes, but creation? You’re basically talking about TV rights and where TV rights go so do old firm coverage clauses (individually, not collectively speaking). And then yesterday Sevco fall out with a major broadcaster? Another angle is this. What do the remaining 19 clubs think about it. If the SFL1-10 leave they are presumably going to need all the help they can get.

Interesting times

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parmahamsterPosted on10:10 am - May 5, 2013


vforvernacular says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 08:50
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chick Young claimed that he left Ibricks right after he escorted Chris McLaughlin to his car once “Mister” Traynor gave him and the BBC crew the bum’s rush. In fact he used the phrase “I did do walking away” to describe his departure.

So whether or not he had been there as a fan, he at least deserves some kudos for backing his BBC colleagues in this matter. He was also the one who brought up Traynor’s comment about the pointlessness of banning media from football grounds.

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FIFAPosted on10:12 am - May 5, 2013


The Beeb will be the first in a long line of bans from Ibrox as the proverbial starts to hit the fan,they need to do this to keep all the bad news out of circulation,this will be Gym’s remit over the comming weeks ,standing at the front door each day telling any hack [Cheeco] that turns up that everyone is away on holiday ,nothing to see here run along now ,but ,the bad news is comming of that there is no doubt,time to stock up on the snacks.
ps was there not any skooshing of champagne over one another yesterday as is tradition at championship winning celebrations,only asking.

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TartawulverPosted on10:20 am - May 5, 2013


yourhavingalaugh says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 10:12

The Beeb will be the first in a long line of bans from Ibrox as the proverbial starts to hit the fan
——————————————–
I’m sure they’ll be scratching their heads trying to work out how they can ban the internet from Ibrox

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TartawulverPosted on10:30 am - May 5, 2013


vforvernacular says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 08:50

Could it be they are awaiting legal advice before making any further comment or report? To remove the BBC from the game may have been a breach of contract?
—————————————-
I’d say they need some sharper people in both their legal and editorial departments if that’s the case. They should be able at least to fashion some form of words that could lay claim to it being THEIR story without tying themselves in knots. Their website even has a page giving a roundup of current gossip in Scottish football and doesn’t mention it.

It’s the hoary old anecdote of a fire in the offices of one newspaper being reported as a scoop by their rival paper…if you report something two or three or four days on, it’s not ‘news’, just comment.

Alex Thomson says on the C4 site ‘My guess is a newly invigorated BBC under a new director-general might just be interested in actually standing up for its rights on this one.’ Time will tell if that’s the case or if the BBC are simply gutless.

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scapaflow14Posted on10:44 am - May 5, 2013


I hope the relative quiet from Pacific Quay, is due to the BEEB seeking legal advice on their options. Personally, I hope they start with official complaints to both the SFL and SFA, given that Celtic have also sinned in this regard, there may be less resistance to bringing forth a Disrepute charge(s)

Rangers receive public money in return for access for the BBC. It is perfectly in order for people to raise a complaint directly with the BEEB in this regard, sufficient complaints may provide additional cover for the BEEB to act. Given that I think Celtic were wrong, I did not feel in the least hypocritical when I lodged my complaint!

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TartawulverPosted on10:44 am - May 5, 2013


Ally McCoist quoted on today’s Scotsman website

““If the gentleman who wrote it can promise us Johan Cruyff and Frank Rijkaard, I will drive over tonight and pick them up and bring them back and they can get on with the job.

“I would certainly move sideways for those two.”

SIdeways??? I don’t think so

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scapaflow14Posted on10:50 am - May 5, 2013


TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 10:44

Dunno, would the budget stretch to a half time Ora_ge Boy?

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Lord WobblyPosted on11:01 am - May 5, 2013


scapaflow14 says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 10:44
0 0 Rate This
I hope the relative quiet from Pacific Quay, is due to the BEEB
seeking legal advice on their options. Personally, I hope they start with official complaints to both the SFL and SFA, given that Celtic have also sinned in this regard, there may be less resistance to bringing forth a Disrepute charge(s)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The best possible reaction would be to report the truth. Don’t dress it up to appease anyone. Report the truth without fear or favour. But then that is what the BBC (and journalists everywhere) should be doing anyway.

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scapaflow14Posted on11:08 am - May 5, 2013


Lord Wobbly says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 11:01

Agreed LW, the press should report the Truth as a matter of course, their stock in trade is, or at least should be, telling truth to power.

However, too many organisations and individuals with things to hide, are using the justified anger that led to Levenson, as a means of covering their tracks. Whether its dodgy donations or journos being banned from football grounds, everyone, journos included have a duty to say Stop!

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bigsausagefingersPosted on11:11 am - May 5, 2013


Clyde SSB ran a competition yesterday to win a signed copy of lee mccullochs new book. Simple, all you had to do was phone in and say which team Lee signed from to win.

Apparently my answer of “lee signed from Rangers FC,was incorrect and the real answer was Wigan.

Surely not.

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chipm0nkPosted on11:14 am - May 5, 2013


I would imagine that the BBC’s immediate reaction would be to try to reach some sort of sensible resolution. Hence them not fanning the flames. The last thing they would want if they are trying to reach a compromise is a war of words.

It would not surprise me if Rangers wanted exactly the same and that this is little more than an obvious fan friendly stunt to sell some tickets. It’s free, popular with the support and an obvious WATP wagon circling tactic.

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scapaflow14Posted on11:16 am - May 5, 2013


chipm0nk says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 11:14

Pleasing the fans seems to be a fairly common motivation for banning journos, frankly, for me it moves the act from the stupid to the despicably cynical column

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FIFAPosted on11:24 am - May 5, 2013


bigsausage
How embarrassing for the punter that won the coveted prize when he tells folk how he won it with a wrong answer ,but then again.

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chipm0nkPosted on11:41 am - May 5, 2013


scapaflow14 says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 11:16

===============================

As far as I am aware Rangers didn’t ban a journalist, they banned the entire national broadcasting corporation. I may have picked that up wrong though.

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chipm0nkPosted on11:46 am - May 5, 2013


That certainly seems to be the case. From their statement “Rangers Football Club can confirm the BBC is no longer welcome at Ibrox Stadium or Murray Park.”

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john clarkePosted on11:49 am - May 5, 2013


“I am interested in my life and nothing else. And not making a lot of trouble.”

Amusing to note that the great Alfredo di Stefano has the same philosophical approach as our MSM hacks!

But as he’s 86 years old and about to marry a 34 year old, I can forgive him that attitude!

I cannot extend the same forgiveness to our ‘journalists’.

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coineanachantaighePosted on11:49 am - May 5, 2013


internetbampots says:
Saturday, May 4, 2013 at 22:21

Scottish football is not in a position to cast aside 40k supporters a fortnight or their traveling support
==========================

I quote this because I disagree with this part of your statement. I know you don’t agree with the argument that the size of Rangers’ support means they must be fast tracked but it is an argument used often in the MSM.

If anything has been shown this season is that Scottish football can do very well without their big support. There were many posts last year showing how their traveling support actually doesn’t contribute that much to other clubs in these days of sitting in the pubs and watching live telly.

The only club that wins with Rangers in the SPL actually is Celtic because of their rivalry. And as a diddy-club supporter can I just say that we’ve managed to survive nearly ten years in a lower league without them (or Celtic). Sure there’s the odd cup game but that only happens every few years (unless your very lucky) and that money spread over the years doesn’t add up to that much – and it’s dangerous to depend on good cup draws, that way lies debt.

The vast amount of money made by Rangers in the SPL would be for Rangers. There is the argument that having the OF games means more TV money but then you are arguing our game has little value without the Old Firm games. If this is true what is the point of our league?

I believe it is this mentality which has prevented the games administrators for so long from doing anything positive about improving the game in our country. We really need to start boosting our game without bringing the Old Firm into it – sure Celtic doing well in the CL is a good boost but we need to boost the other clubs too. Any plans for the future of our game must have this at the forefront. Rangers and Celtic can take care of themselves – well, Celtic anyway.

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coineanachantaighePosted on12:04 pm - May 5, 2013


upthehoops says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 08:03
. It was totally cringeworthy. I fail to see why any non-Rangers fans would torture themselves on a daily basis listening to such utter nonsense.
————————————
Not to mention contribute to its continuance by regularly listening to it.

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jimlarkinPosted on12:05 pm - May 5, 2013


http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/224089-ally-mccoist-wants-opportunity-to-prove-hes-the-man-to-lead-rangers/

“Before I sound as though I’m criticising the people that we hope to bring in, you are a free transfer for a reason.

“We’re not going to get the best youngsters. It ain’t going to happen.

oh dear, shame if any electrical engineers or agents are reading your wisdom, Alistair!!

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CastofThousandsPosted on12:06 pm - May 5, 2013


Tin hat on.

Where Ally is probably correct in his post title winning speech is that there will always be a ‘Rangers’ if they continue to attract such a ‘loyal’ support. Whether they will continue to play at Ibrox Park is debatable. Irrespective of whether Scottish Football needs them, their fans need them and the more adversity they are faced with the more a cetain (large) element of fans will adhere to them.

I commend TheGlen2012 for sticking to his points and modifying them in the light of discussion where he feels appropriate. Blu also continues to offer measured debate. It is these obviously genuine Scottish football supporters and supporters of their own club that deserve encouragement.

If any ‘Rangers’ fast track can be AVOIDED, then I think commercial reality must take its toll. In the years it takes for them to regain top flight status a new ethos must be forged. RTC/TSFM was right, brave and insightful to go after those that could not see that justice was the key element in maintaining any governing body’s authority. When ‘Rangers’ eventually do emerge from their chaos it will be ironically due to the efforts of RTC and TSFM who like maggots, ate away the dead flesh (sorry for the distasteful metaphor but I’m alluding to the mechanism, not the species).

Whilst the rotteness is driven out it must be borne in mind that the intent is not to harm the living entity, the fans who are just ordinary human beings like us. If the remedy is seen as being more harmful than the disease then the ‘Rangers’ adherents may retain their WATP tendencies. TSFM is not about vindictiveness. It is about justice.

A phrase I came across recently, possibly from another poster, lingers in my memory :

Let justice be done though the heavens fall (latin : Fiat justitia ruat caelum).

The heavens are still intact and justice will be done.

Sorry again about the maggots. I was a big admirer of the film ‘Gladiator’ where the hero is cured by an African colleague by using maggots to eat the infected flesh from his wound. I understand this approach is used even today in current medical practice.

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jimlarkinPosted on12:08 pm - May 5, 2013


By MATT COYLE
Published: 9 hrs ago

TWO men have been arrested following trouble at a youth cup final between Rangers and Celtic.
Police said the suspects, aged 21 and 28, were accused of offensive behaviour at last Monday night’s game.
The younger man was held in Thornliebank, near Glasgow, while the other was arrested in Erskine, Renfrewshire.
A report will be sent to the procurator fiscal and both were released to appear at court at a future date.
It brings the number of arrests after the under-17s Glasgow Cup tie to five, with more expected.
Fans set off flares and smoke bombs and damaged seats at the match which Rangers won 3-2.
Chief Superintendent Andy Bates said: “We are continuing to investigate the disturbance. Officers are reviewing CCTV.”
The game at Firhill — watched by 6,000 — was the first Old Firm meeting since the Light Blues were relegated to the Third Division.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/leaguedivision3/4915708/Two-held-over-Old-Firm-cup-mayhem.html#ixzz2SPo9rynB

anybody got MATT COYLE’s twitter @ ?

can you inform him that there is no more “old-firm”

as [old]rangers died and were replaced with sevco !!!

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parmahamsterPosted on12:09 pm - May 5, 2013


Unusual (aye, right!) number of TDs’ appearing to posts concerning the removal of Auntie from Edmiston Drive yesterday.

Personally speaking as a licence payer and therefore an ‘investor’ in the BBC, I would expect no compromise from them on this. In fact I would expect both Sportsound and Reporting Scotland from this day forward to tell TributeActFC that all bets are off concerning kid glove treatment reporting anything to do with them. They’ve seen how TAFC reacts when confronted with the truth, no need for them to change tack now they don’t need to run anything past the corpulent spinmeister. The more astute fans will appreciate truth as opposed to propaganda any day of the week.

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nixonwhytewashingPosted on12:24 pm - May 5, 2013


Sure it has been noticed by others….but just in case it hasn’t.

QC Robert “call me Roy” Martin appointed to help the latest internal enquiry is a specialist in “planning and property matters, but a glance at his profile on Terra Firma lawyer site shows the first listed case of his recent workload is of an Ibrox park based call centre and the BBC.

If I recall it’s all about covert recording exposing working practices…Scotland is such a small place with so many coincidences.

Is there a world record for the number of investigations in a calendar year?

Murray Park then, Murray Park now, Murray Park forever.

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jimlarkinPosted on12:25 pm - May 5, 2013


bigsausagefingers says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 11:11
34 1 Rate This
Clyde SSB ran a competition yesterday to win a signed copy of lee mccullochs new book. Simple, all you had to do was phone in and say which team Lee signed from to win.

Apparently my answer of “lee signed from Rangers FC,was incorrect and the real answer was Wigan.

Surely not.

===================================

why don’t you write in to them with your explanation and letter of complaint that you were told the wrong answer by “clyde”.

be interesting to see what answer they give you in writing.

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scapaflow14Posted on12:41 pm - May 5, 2013


chipm0nk says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 11:41

A distinction without a point . Or are you saying 1 is Ok, but a 100 is not on? I get that some of my fellow Celtic people seem to think that if Celtic do it, then it must be ok. I don’t, lets agree to disagree and move on

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scapaflow14Posted on12:43 pm - May 5, 2013


BTW, Chipmonk, the s on the end of journoS should be a hint that its plural as in more than or one, or indeed many.

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TartawulverPosted on12:44 pm - May 5, 2013


An article from the Independent about football fans being used as a test bed for population control techniques. It’s not just in Glasgow

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/the-last-word-orwellian-curb-on-fans-entry-is-id-system-by-the-back-door-8604179.html

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NawlitePosted on12:54 pm - May 5, 2013


jimlarkin says:

Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 12:08

anybody got MATT COYLE’s twitter @ ?

can you inform him that there is no more “old-firm”

as [old]rangers died and were replaced with sevco !!!
=============================================

and tell him that “the Light Blues were NOT relegated to the Third Division.” (My caps insertion)

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BrendaPosted on1:36 pm - May 5, 2013


On thee BBC being banned from ibrokes and murky!! They were banned for revealing what was going on ie the truth! HK who by no stretch of the imagination could call himself a journalist 🙂 was banned for telling big whoppers ……….. I think there’s a slight difference 🙂

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twopandaPosted on2:03 pm - May 5, 2013


Had a flick thru on-line MSM stuff – just the usual – but not fussed as one might expect by the BBC thing
It would appear all brought to heel – on short leads being taken for `walkies` – but only permitted areas!

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chipm0nkPosted on2:10 pm - May 5, 2013


scapaflow14 says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 12:41

chipm0nk says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 11:41

A distinction without a point . Or are you saying 1 is Ok, but a 100 is not on?

===========================

No, I didn’t say that. The distinction is that to ban one journalist, because he wrote a story which was not true, and neither apologised for doing it or issued a retraction is not the same as banning a whole organisation for publishing a leaked document.

In addition, the BBC pay for access to football clubs in Scotland, so they have a contractual entitlement to be there as far as I am aware. I don’t believe individual journalists or reporters have the same right.

I fund the BBC, some of that money goes to Rangers, as part of the contract Scottish football has with the national broadcaster, and now Rangers are saying that no-one from that broadcaster will be allowed into Ibrox or Murray Park, in an official capacity.

That is not a tenable position to take.

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john clarkePosted on2:34 pm - May 5, 2013


internetbampots says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 14:14

“…. If they had dealt with Sevco the way the rules should dictate then the new club would still be waiting their turn to get in the league and that’s the way it should’ve been..”
—-
Why cannot our club chairmen see the blindingly obvious, namely that the present Boards of the three ‘authorities’ do not and cannot command the respect of the football fans of this country, and ought no longer command the respect and support of the very chairmen whose businesses they have put at grave risk?

Where are the calls for resignation and for fresh appointment of ‘clean’hands?

The people who caused the mess are clearly not to be trusted to fix it.

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abigboydiditandranawayPosted on2:48 pm - May 5, 2013


Graeme Souness in today’s Sunday Times…

“I think i am finished with management now but I can never say never because there would be a couple of jobs – I won’t name them – that would possibly tempt me back if the circumstances were right”…

surely not?

well, I suppose if Cruyff isn’t available!

How DO you do the wee smiley face thing?

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chipm0nkPosted on2:59 pm - May 5, 2013


Graeme must not have heard that the new club doesn’t provide employee benefit trusts.

In a break with tradition it has decided that it may just pay tax.

Well at least until the man who would be etc gets back.

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vforvernacularPosted on3:05 pm - May 5, 2013


Chick Young continuing to make an idiot of himself on Sportsound again today.

He’s now claiming his rant against Dundee yesterday and suggestion Vince Lunny should take action to defend his club was in fact an argument for free speech and he was in fact defending John Brown and Kenny Shiels right to speak as they see fit.

If I recall correctly he actually said live on radio that he thought complaining to Vince Lunny about John Brown was a good idea (as Brown might be censured) so I have no idea how this bare faced liar can be allowed to continue his embarassing performances every week.

Oh and then we had the “Keevins defence” of making inaccurate and inflammatory statements then defending them as an “opinion” – thats ok then.

He lost the plot some time ago, the blantant lie that CO had explicitly told him he did not receive anything through an EBT was a corker.

IMO he should in be put out to pasture and he can more comfortably continue his toadying with his Rangers heroes McCoist, Smith et al.

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Carfins Finest. (@edunne58)Posted on3:06 pm - May 5, 2013


abigboydiditandranaway says:

Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 14:48

Graeme Souness in today’s Sunday Times…
=================
Ah. The reamergance of a True Rangers man complete with shining new Brown Brogues.Please god no. This would set Scottish Football and TRFC down a road from where there would be no return I fear. The man has pure hatered running through his veins.

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on3:26 pm - May 5, 2013


vforvernacular says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 15:05

Chick Young continuing to make an idiot of himself on Sportsound again today.

He’s now claiming his rant against Dundee yesterday and suggestion Vince Lunny should take action to defend his club was in fact an argument for free speech and he was in fact defending John Brown and Kenny Shiels right to speak as they see fit.

===================================

So did Chico just intimate that he may have contacted Lunny in the past to censure other people in football?

1-0 Dundee get it up ya Chick!!

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enough is enoughPosted on3:52 pm - May 5, 2013


Roy Martins recent case

In Response Handling Ltd v BBC [1] the Lord Ordinary refused a motion for interim interdict brought by a company operating call centres seeking to prevent the BBC from broadcasting a programme investigating bank account and credit card fraud. The programme contained video footage covertly recorded in the pursuer’s premises by an undercover reporter engaged by the BBC who had taken a job at the call centre.

Based in Ibrox stadium.

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StevieBCPosted on4:09 pm - May 5, 2013


Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says: Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 15:0

abigboydiditandranaway says:

Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 14:48

Graeme Souness in today’s Sunday Times…
=================
Ah. The reamergance of a True Rangers man complete with shining new Brown Brogues.Please god no…
=================

Whilst Souness might indeed retain a deep affection for TRFC, over the years I also got the impression he had an even deeper affection for money.

Could be way off the mark – just an opinion. 😉

Doubt very much Souness will be donning brown brogues for a club with dwindling cash reserves and an empty warchest.

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scapaflow14Posted on4:20 pm - May 5, 2013


“alex thomson ‏@alextomo 2m
Talksport tonight at 7 talking blatant media censorshiip from the Tracksuit Tyrants at Ibrox, Celtic Park, St James’s Park and Old Trafford”

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chipm0nkPosted on4:28 pm - May 5, 2013


Censorship is the suppression of people’s right to speak, publish, or whatever.

Refusing to speak to someone is not censorship, Alex.

In fact, when one thinks about it, just as there is a right to freedom of expression there is also a right to silence if one chooses that.

I’m afraid “blatant media censorshiip from the Tracksuit Tyrants at Ibrox, Celtic Park, St James’s Park and Old Trafford” is simply misleading.

The idea that a person or organisation must speak to a reporter is just wrong. On what basis is that level of arrogance justified.

No-one is stopping Hugh Keevins, or the BBC from expressing themselves. Keevins talks about Celtic regularly. However that has to be a right which is open to both parties. He has the right to express his opinion, so long as it is within the law, others have the right to ignore him.

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Palacio67Posted on4:28 pm - May 5, 2013


I believe the Kilmarnock and Hibernian match has been stopped as a fan has collapsed and is currently enroute to Hospital. Let us pray for his recovery,

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redetinPosted on4:35 pm - May 5, 2013


abigboydiditandranaway says:
Sunday, May 5, 2013 at 14:48

How DO you do the wee smiley face thing?

_______________________________________

You’ll find a whole range of emoticons for WordPress at this link:- 🙂

http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Smilies

:mrgreen:

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ianagainPosted on4:51 pm - May 5, 2013


Match abandoned.

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Bill1903Posted on4:56 pm - May 5, 2013


Dundee relegated

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on4:57 pm - May 5, 2013


Oh well, kept fighting against the inevitable longer than I thought, Bomber not my cup of tea but at least it’s given the club a little on the field creditability back.

We were really relegated by the boards non decision over christmas.

Looks like it’s SPL2 for us!

It’s not just rangers that can’t handle the truth, turns out I’m blocked by the DFC official twitter for criticising the CEO’s lack of clarity towards actual facts!

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abigboydiditandranawayPosted on5:02 pm - May 5, 2013


thank you redetin…
you are a gentleman/lady…
anyway and for what it’s worth, in my opinion Souness would jump at the sevco job…
has anybody got any other ideas who the long term unemployed manager could ( realistically) be referring to if it isn’t the dodGERS?

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