SFM Podcast #6: Dave King & Oldco

By

Been a busy few weeks on all things TRFC related, …

Comment on SFM Podcast #6: Dave King & Oldco by Allyjambo.

Been a busy few weeks on all things TRFC related, has it not?

Multiple arrests over the various moves surrounding Ibrox.

A new word, ‘sist’, has been added to the Scottish football lexicon, with the announcement from Messiah King of a cunning plan to rescue ‘Rangers’ from… ‘Rangers’ 😯 .

New ways for the SMSM to make the leaders of the second tier of Scottish football sound like La Liga’s finest, while the search goes on for the right words to describe a scenario in the top tier where Celtic can, at the same time, be too good (for everyone else) but not good enough (for anyone else)! In the meantime, Aberdeen’s perfect league start is somehow eclipsed by said second tier club’s good start, that hasn’t, yet, matched Scottish football’s top team!

Then Charles Green has advised TRFC/RIFC (never clear which one is being referred to) that they are liable for his legal costs – then he hasn’t – then he has!

Meanwhile, lowly top tier club St Johnston do the unthinkable, and stuff the really very mighty team that’s a fair few league positions below them, right out of the League Cup that was destined to provide TRFC with much need revenue, but they don’t really need it coz it’s quite good for them to be knocked out and, for the first time in football history, a club manager is saying he doesn’t want any new players while his chairman is saying they will be signing plenty. Something to do with a magic hat, I think.

The next night the club that’s got no chance of catching the club two league places above them beat the not so mighty top team in the league (top, but only by 5 points) and the SMSM manage to see this as a lesser achievement than those cheeky Perth guys managed the night before against that mightier than mighty club half a dozen places lower, but in, we must accept,the bestest league in the world!

And to keep this ‘feel good factor’ going in Scottish football, we find an intrepid ‘journalist’ has found yet another way (they must be exhausted by now) of describing what happened to a liquidated club!

Phew! But as if that wasn’t enough, the men at the top of a marble staircase somewhere ethereal, must send their legal mates (they must all be mates by now, they talk so much) back to court to try to persuade a judge that it’s fit and proper to ignore a previous director’s contractual rights.

With all this going on, how on earth can a multi millionaire supporter, with a seat at the top of that marble staircase, possibly stay away? Of course, it’s warming up in SA as we here enter autumn, and there’s lots of golf to be played! Fore!

Allyjambo Also Commented

SFM Podcast #6: Dave King & Oldco
Does anyone else think the SMSM are finding it ever harder to keep up the veneer of the ‘same club’ nonsense? Are events leading them down roads that require them to marry club and company in order to comply with the latest Ibrox (Level5) requirements?

At the moment, those requirements seem to be to ramp up the Green hatred, and to do this it is necessary to highlight the damage he has done to the ‘club’. It clearly carries greater impact to use ‘Rangers Football Club’, or ‘The Club’, when accusing Green, and others, of certain crimes, rather than to use the, up till now (except when their guard slipped), ‘the company that runs…’, ‘the plc…’ etc.

As has been mooted here many times, the problem with telling lies is that you have to have a good memory. There’s another problem, though, and that is that the lie, once told, doesn’t always fit the required future narrative or agenda! Still, that doesn’t stop our media continuing to peddle such nonsense, mainly, I think, because they don’t have the nous to realise what they are doing and how, ever more, stupid they look!


SFM Podcast #6: Dave King & Oldco
Unable to copy over, but just seen a front page attempt at satire by the DR on twitter. Jackson very smug about it.

It’s a pic of Green’s board with dialogue to the effect of asking him if he’d like legal cover in case he is charged with defrauding ‘Rangers’.

Typical inaccuracy, or out and out lie, from the comic! I pointed out that it was the creditors of ‘Rangers’ who were defrauded (if indeed fraud has taken place) to the benefit of TRFC.

Of course, we again see the problem for a newspaper that supports a lie! If Sevco (the vehicle for any fraud) is Rangers FC, then surely RFC defrauded RFC ( if it was indeed Rangers – as the DR claims – who were defrauded)?

Besides, if a club has no liabilities, no assets, and no corporeal or legal standing, how can it possibly be defrauded?

Keith (Jackson), or any other hack, please try to answer that!


SFM Podcast #6: Dave King & Oldco
easyJambo 24th September 2015 at 4:44 pm #

Very interesting!

So, King admits Green has contacted the club, presumably to ask if D&O insurance cover is still in place, or have the premiums stopped? kind of query.

If cover still in place, why the need to go to court? If not in place, could there be a claim for negligence on top of the claim for legal costs?

Again, another good spot, EJ.


Recent Comments by Allyjambo

It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
Big PinkJanuary 2, 2018 at 13:54 
AJI suspect the TDs are not from SFM folk (remember the ratings are available to all manner of trolls). It is a disgusting world-view if made in earnest. A shocking way to score a point if not.
_________________-

I didn’t, for a moment, suspect they were from anyone who posts here, even the more prolific troll posters are better than that, I am sure. 

For some time now I have had the feeling that there is someone, or some people, coming on here and just TDing a number of posts without bothering to read their content, either out of malice or as some sort of concerted effort on behalf of people with reason to dislike our message. It really is quite strange how, suddenly, a number of posts receive one, two or occasionally three thumbs down in very short order, and often posts like uth’s, that could offend no one, receive these petty TDs as a result. 

I can honestly say that I have never read anything from our regular, or occasional, posters that might suggest they would TD anything relating to that terrible day. I include, of course, all supporters of Celtic and RFC/TRFC who have, over the years, made their arguments on SFM. My experience of Celtic supporters talking of that day is one that leaves me certain in the knowledge that only the basest of their support (and we all have them) were not badly effected by the disaster and in full sympathy with the deceased, their families and the wider Rangers support. 

I can still remember that night, sitting in the Queens Arms in Edinburgh, watching the death count rising on the TV, waiting for one of our mates we knew was at the game, getting more and more nervous until he appeared. It had a lasting effect on me.


It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
upthehoopsJanuary 2, 2018 at 08:52 29 2
Rate This
On this day in 1971, the Ibrox disaster happened during a Rangers v Celtic game at Ibrox. 66 fans died in a crush. Some of us remember that day, some of us may even have been there, while some of us would not even be on this earth at the time. We are all football fans. Nobody should go to a football match and never return home. Rest in Peace.
_____________

Wow! I know we are not meant to put much store on the thumbs up or down, but two people have given thumbs down to this post! Who on earth could find fault with a post respecting the dead from the Ibrox disaster?

It kind of confirms my belief that there are people coming onto this site who don’t read the posts, but are assigned with the task of creating the appearance that there is some disagreement with posts that mostly criticise Rangers(IL) and TRFC and hit the TD button without thought.

Alternatively, of course, it could just be that others, like myself, have difficulty hitting the correct symbol on tablets or mobile phones, I certainly hope that is the case here.

Thanks to Upthehoops for reminding us of that sad day, something we should do every year as a mark of respect for those who died on Scottish football’s worst day.


It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
DarkbeforedawnJanuary 2, 2018 at 03:48 
Stevie BC, the issue with declaring himself bankrupt is it stops him holding any director role in a company in the UK and possibly South Africa. I can’t see him doing that “for the sake of the club”. I think like Murray before him he likes the limelight. He knows very well the best option for the club would be resign as any acting party in the club and still provide the soft loans. It would take all scrutiny away from the club and could leave the chairman role to someone more respected such as Alistair Johnston. That would stop the risk of the TOP ruling having such a huge impact on the club. It’s the selfless and obvious choice to make and he could still be seen as the saviour from abroad saving the club through loans, but he wouldn’t get the same exposure he so much craves. His defiance is what will lead to his downfall and his selfishness could lead lead to the downfall of the club.
_______________________

DBD, though I used your above post to highlight the impossibility of separating club from company, I have to agree, to some extent, with the thrust of the post. While I am not sure that by declaring himself bankrupt that King could escape the wrath of the TOP and CoS, he isn’t going to do anything for the benefit of your club if it doesn’t benefit him, or save him, at the same time.

That said, however, King’s ‘ownership’ of the NOAL Trust was established in court to the judge’s satisfaction, and I doubt that he would get away with making further loans to RIFC plc through it or any other hidden avenue, once declared bankrupt. Indeed, despite my limited knowledge of bankruptcy laws, I am certain that King (or anyone else) can’t just announce bankruptcy and clear themselves of all fiscal responsibilities, they have to prove they have no money to meet their debts, and as far as we know, King doesn’t have any – and if he had, the court would make sure the funds in his NOAL Trust would be used to meet them, as far as possible, with, I am sure, an investigation into what other (disguised)investments he holds. One thing’s for sure, he would not be allowed to ‘lend’ any money to RIFC/TRFC, and, if he does, indeed, have substantial debts, his creditors might well force the return of his existing RIFC loans to meet his debts.

One thing’s for sure, the law will not allow someone to avoid the consequences of breaking the laws and regulations of the land by availing one’s self of the laws of bankruptcy! While a little tax cheating scrote like Barry Ferguson might get away with transferring his assets to his wife, just prior to receiving his tax bill, King and his money are already on the court’s radar and I doubt that even his Masonic connections would be enough to let him get away with further fraudulent behaviour.

Something I am sure of, and has to be considered before wondering if bankruptcy is a way out for both/either King or RIFC, and that is – you have to have debts that you demonstrably can’t meet before you can petition for bankruptcy. Unless King has very substantial debts, that outweigh, at least, the funds held in the NOAL Trust, then he has no grounds to declare himself bankrupt.


It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
DarkbeforedawnJanuary 2, 2018 at 03:48 
Stevie BC, the issue with declaring himself bankrupt is it stops him holding any director role in a company in the UK and possibly South Africa. I can’t see him doing that “for the sake of the club”. I think like Murray before him he likes the limelight. He knows very well the best option for the club would be resign as any acting party in the club and still provide the soft loans. It would take all scrutiny away from the club and could leave the chairman role to someone more respected such as Alistair Johnston. That would stop the risk of the TOP ruling having such a huge impact on the club. It’s the selfless and obvious choice to make and he could still be seen as the saviour from abroad saving the club through loans, but he wouldn’t get the same exposure he so much craves. His defiance is what will lead to his downfall and his selfishness could lead lead to the downfall of the club.
_________________

Hi, DBD, and a Happy New Year to you.

While your recent posts have been pretty good, showing a realistic approach to what’s happening at your club, might I ask how it could be that the chairman of RIFC’s selfishness, and I presume you include his dishonesty in that, could lead to your club’s downfall, if, as you’ve previously claimed, the club is separate from the company? Surely, in your belief structure, it would only be the company, TRFC Ltd, that would ‘fall down’, and the club would just sit around, responsible for none of the inherent financial chicanery of the ‘overspend our way to success’ ethos that permeates at Ibrox, until some new ‘football company’ is set up to carry the can again!

I know it’s a bit early in the year to reintroduce the OC/NC debate, but I am wondering if you’ve, perhaps, come to realise that the idea that a football club can, for some skewed reason, escape the consequences of it’s own greed, is pretty ludicrous?


It Is Better To Offer No Excuse Than A Bad One
ODDJOBJANUARY 1, 2018 at 13:42
Allyjambo,Thanks.I also suspect that the assignation of ” ra deeds” would provoke an angry response in some quarters
___________

And I suspect that the assignation of ‘ra deeds’, should it ever come to pass, might well be the last throw of the dice! What’s more, once any assets are used as security, it reduces the amount the current lenders are likely to get in the event of liquidation. It may well be that the directors, who are now refusing to give more loans, have, rather than reached the end of their free funds, decided that the lending has reached a level greater than, or close to, the total value of the group’s assets.

It’s one thing lending without security when in a position to ensure there is enough in the pot to, more or less, cover the amount of the loans, it’s an altogether different thing once someone else gets that security!

Whatever the accounts give as a value for the fixed and current assets, the directors will all have a very good idea of the realisable value of those assets (particularly the heritable asset value), and should total creditors begin to outstrip that value, they may well begin to wonder if it’s time to call in the administrators. Granting security over some of the heritable assets would only hasten the moment for unpleasant decisions.

If PMGB is correct in saying King is looking out for loans secured on the club’s heritable assets, then I am certain that the rest of the directors would carry out proper due diligence on the potential lenders before granting any security. Not that they have any dodgy characters in their midst, or anything, just that they are canny businessmen.


About the author