As we all know, this site emerged from the ashes of RTC. The wish of the original administrator of the site, one which I wholeheartedly share, was to keep together the wonderful community RTC had built, in terms of both personnel and spirit. There are still many individuals around who were also part of RTC, and regrettably many who are no longer with us. The RTC spirit however, that of a cross-party football site where issues can be discussed in a respectful and insightful manner remains. The “wisdom of the crowd” phenomenon is also with us to perhaps an even greater extent than before, and consequently SFM’s credentials as a formidable alternative to the print media have grown.
In recent times, many contributors have expressed frustration that we are pretty much a talking shop and little else; characterised as “a lot of gum bashing and no teeth”. I think that is fair comment up to a point, but then again our aim – up to now – has been to simply present an alternative view – a view that has increasingly become the fan view as opposed to the industry view (the industry being made up of club officials, players, and press).
In fact the way I see it personally, SFM has evolved to a point where it has become the watchdog (monitor if you will) of an industry which is subject to very little oversight. The Rangers situation will eventually be done with (no laughing at the back please), and like everything else will be consigned to history (albeit more than one). The same self-interest and lack of regard for sporting integrity though will still remain, and the need for oversight will remain also.
Having arrived at those conclusions, we have two alternatives; the first is to remain as we are (which is not a bad place to be), and the second is that SFM has to expand its role.
In recent weeks, the mods have met to discuss this, and we think that we ought to give the latter option a try. As to how we want to achieve that, and we have come up with a skeleton plan as follows;
1. We need to move into the area of gathering news content as well as commenting on what appears elsewhere;
2. We should act as a cross-club portal to get good fan site content from all clubs to a wider audience;
3. We need to highlight the positives in the game as well as the negatives;
4. We should become an actively campaigning body, aligning with fan groups to lobby for the changes we think important.
In order to achieve these objectives, more time will need to be spent on communication like podcasts, adding news content, expanding membership and building links with other fan groups. Time will also need to be spent setting up features, attending press conferences etc. Later in the year, one of the mods will have much more time on his hands to help achieve this.
Podcasts, premium content, labour, organisation and all of the above costs money, and ultimately a subscription based model backed by sponsorship seems to be our best way of achieving that. In order to give us a head start, we will in the next few months be putting together a business-plan and a pitch for Crowd Funding investment.
This is not to say that our existing model has been a failure. We have successfully managed to keep ourselves afloat through the ad-hoc generosity of people in our community, although the inability to keep the podcasts going has been a bit frustrating. Finding income streams which are more solid will allow us to respond to events more quickly (for example mounting an ad campaign to respond to some event or other, or buying new equipment), and hopefully achieve all of our objectives – and build a bigger audience base for our message.
Of course a move of this nature will require that, in the interests of transparency, anonymity of SFM will have to be set aside. That will not affect any of our contributors, and our practice of using (sometimes) imaginative names on the blog will remain. However, for crowd funding to be successful, we will require to have a board in place, and there is no hiding place from Companies House. The make up of the board is also crucial, and in addition to consideration of blog members for that role, we will be looking to have respected people from without.
I imagine there may be a consequent subtle effect on moderation policy to take into account.
The reason I have made this post is to keep the community up to speed with events. Although we have decided to move forward to see if we can get support for our business plan, that plan is by no means finished. As I said earlier, the “wisdom of crowds” has made our community unique and given it its credibility. There’s a lot more wisdom out there we hope to tap into before we go ahead with our initiative.
We already had someone in mind for chairman of the new board, but events have conspired tragically to rob us of that – and had the effect of postponing this announcement. However we would like to hear suggestions for suitable outside candidates for board and committee places.
We also want to hear from you if you have a suggestion to be added to our wish list of SFM function above – or even if you think it is a mistake to embark on this course.
This is a very big move for SFM, so we don’t want to rush into anything. We need to listen to what you folks have to say, because if the merging SFM is not considered a better SFM by our community there is very little point in looking to fund it.
Sickofitall
No surprises there,there will no doubt be a book of reasons explaining how the FPP decision was reached,everyone and their grannie knew what the outcome was going to be,the 64k question was always going to be ,how it was reached,my guess would be the answer will be on page 19355 sub-section 3347 chapter 87745 section 4657.
Ryan,
The criticism of Rangers in here , i think, is down to two factors. The conduct of Rangers owners from David Murray onwards has been disgraceful. Everyone on here is well aware of their activities, so no point in repeating them ad nauseum.
The scale though is unprecedented and the disrespect for other clubs and disregard for sporting integrity shown by Murray & Co isn’t going to be forgotten any time soon
The second factor is the attitude of the majority of the Rangers fans. Perfectly exemplified by the article in the Record. Not a hint of contrition for the actions of Rangers. It’s always somebody else’s fault. Threats and claims that Scottish football will die without Rangers in the top tier , despite all the evidence to the contrary. Hearts & Dunfemline recently came through traumatic events and were widely supported by other clubs. The reason for that is that they and their fans accepted they were in a mess of their own making and they would have to fix it themselves , without any favours or demands for preferential treatment.
Every time there is regime change at Ibrox, the one thing that never changes is the hubris and sense of entitlement. King’s latest nonsense about Rangers being the envy of world football is just the latest in a long line of insulting rhetoric. That’s why this blog is critical of Rangers.
The nature of the blog is to expose BS regardless of the source. The SFA get it in the neck on here regularly, and deservedly so . The fact that Rangers get so much criticism is because there is so much BS that emanates from Ibrox.
RyanGosling says:
Member: (146 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 1:06 am
Wottpi,
Thanks. I Always read the site daily. I haven’t posted recently because I’ve had nothing of value to add.
One thing I would like to post though- this site is always confident that it appeals to supporters of all scottish clubs. Picture yourself as a Rangers fan, read through the last couple of days of comments, and ask yourself if you’d feel welcome.
11 11 Rate This
==============
Hi Ryan,
I agree that at times there appears a degree of ill will towards Rangers within sections of the SFM community, people will feel they have their reasons of course.
To try and answer your question: I find it hard to imagine being a Rangers fan if I’m honest – they do seem unique in many ways unlike all other scottish football fans.
I’d like to think if I came on a site like this as a Rangers fan, and felt a level of anger towards my club, that I would ask myself searching questions why that is the case, and whether my club, its representatives, fans, players and so on had acted in ways to create that resentment.
And indeed ask myself if my club still acts in ways that can only serve to separate it from the rest of the game in this country. If attitudes within Rangers boardrooms and terraces meant that “my” club had chosen not to work as partners with the rest of the “game” but instead to chase other, more aggressive agendas.
Without wishing to put words in your mouth or anyone else’s I’d guess some of this may have occurred to some Rangers fans, and of course the problem for those fans is what to do next. How can a few individual fans go about resolving the attitudes and issues that bring us to where we now find ourselves.
On another note, keep in mind the site is a collective, there are many contrasting opinions and feelings on all sorts of different topics. There isn’t an official “site view” or 100% consensus on much IMO.
I think your last 2 posts, while making valid points, do misrepresent the forum a little in that regard.
sickofitall says:
Member: (57 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 7:59 am
Well, what to make of that?
First, of course, we must remember that the story comes from a member of the MSM, and we know to always treat their reports with a healthy dose of scepticism, but…the tone of it surely smacks of proper journalism, is factual and quite informative, as though the writer has actually checked things, like the make up of the PGB, before rushing into print. If it is not factual, those whose integrity is clearly questioned by the article will rush to their own defence. I fear we will hear nought of their ‘own defence’!
So, if the report is accurate, there is much to be answered, especially as the lesser case of Murray (P) was decided by the whole PGB, but somehow, the ‘big one’ by a group made up of a higher proportion of ‘conflicted’ people! People who have been involved in all of the favourable decisions made on behalf of a club from Ibrox!
We cannot say that the result would have been different had all the members of the PGB been present, but clearly somebody from that board is not happy with the way the matter has been conducted, and, now the matter is in the open, a public response would be forthcoming from all but the most devious of organisations.
Pure speculation on my part, but could those members of the PGB have been excluded because there wasn’t time to convene a meeting with the non-SFA members before some very important date for TRFC? Could the decision have been made, and announced, in time for King to provided this latest emergency loan to meet the May salaries? Was it known that within the membership of the PGB there was enough dissenting voices to prevent a quick ‘decision’ in time for this loan, even if there was no way they could prevent King passing eventually?
Why are there several people (obsessed, new-media Rangers-hating types, obviously) tweeting about King’s new FPP status as being ‘conditional’? that can’t be right, can it? That would be along the lines of, ‘We know the evidence supports him, we just haven’t seen it yet.’
You’d think even two African swallows could bring these documents — possibly tied together with a strand of creeper?
🙂
yourhavingalaugh says:
May 23, 2015 at 8:27 am
Sickofitall
No surprises there,there will no doubt be a book of reasons explaining how the FPP decision was reached,everyone and their grannie knew what the outcome was going to be,the 64k question was always going to be ,how it was reached,my guess would be the answer will be on page 19355 sub-section 3347 chapter 87745 section 4657.
————————————————————
Brysonian logic applies – if the Professional Game Board didn’t object at the time, then they have no right to object in retrospect. The argument that they weren’t informed of the meeting is also covered by Brysonism – they should have asked for an invitation at the time that invitations were issued, whether or not they knew invitations were being issued, and whether or not they knew there was a meeting.
Ryan Gosling
Looking back on the announcement that DK was found to be a FPP actually made me feel despair. Despair for our game and myself, for how can I continue to support it when honesty is put on the back burner?
For me it is galling because I have seen the e mails relating to the retention of the UEFA licence in 2011 and what RFC were asked to provide in 2012 by Harper MacLeod.
The meaning that I take from of both is cover up, a meaning that others who have been given the same material have then either not read and investigated and responded or where they have done, have not argued that my narrative is wrong.
The Harper MacLeod responses are a great example of this and the questions raised they sent to the SFA who have not responded.
Nor are they responding to Res12 questions where there may be direct linkage.
I would dearly love to get answers that would do something to restore faith that honesty transparency and accountability are now part of the DNA of our game.
However when the old DNA that DK represents to most honest thinkers is allowed back, then contamination will occur if indeed dishonesty was ever banished.
RFC and TRFC are the symptoms of dishonesty but not the cause. The cause is the idea that morality in the form of honesty and ethical thinking are not important when in fact they are the foundation of sport.
They are what makes sport sport.
It is that failure to grasp this that makes me despair and it is even more despairing that not grasping it is what was expected, that ignoring ethics is now the norm.
As Barcabhoy says there will be no acceptance of TRFC until they admit or confess to the tremendous harm they did Scottish football whilst self harming.
My questions for DK re UEFA licence and LNS posted earlier if answered, particularly by DK, but otherwise by the SFA/SPFL, would go a long way to healing our game.
I see there is a Hibs fan blogging about the inaction applied by the police & stewards and no doubt Callum Murray ,RFC ,non reporting by BT Sport and Mrs McGlumphy re the missile throwing on Wednesday nights first leg,good piece,this is going to happen again at their next home game!!!?,anyone offering odds.
Danish Pastry says:
Blog Writer: (1178 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 9:41 am
Why are there several people (obsessed, new-media Rangers-hating types, obviously) tweeting about King’s new FPP status as being ‘conditional’? that can’t be right, can it? That would be along the lines of, ‘We know the evidence supports him, we just haven’t seen it yet.’
You’d think even two African swallows could bring these documents — possibly tied together with a strand of creeper?
_____________________________
What I don’t quite understand is, how can someone, who requires to provide documentary evidence from a South African court, any court, that has found him guilty of a crime, be announced as fit and proper – for anything? I’m not suggesting that the SFA should, or can, prevent King from taking a seat on TRFC’s board, but by saying he is ‘fit and proper’ they are giving a known felon a status he clearly doesn’t deserve.
It’s not as though King fell on hard times and dipped into the till to feed his family in a one off, out of character, act. He wilfully evaded tax for many years in order to make himself, a rich man, even richer. He then spent nine years denying his guilt and fabricating massive lies and fraudulent evidence in an effort to escape justice. That is a big chunk of anyone’s life for it to be considered out of character and easily reformed.
What ‘evidence’ could any court provide, other than to confirm he has paid his fine, that Dave King is no longer the man who would do such dishonest acts?
There is, of course, ample evidence from his public statements, statements issued at press conferences and not just off the cuff slip of the tongues, that he still tells lies as part of his business practice, so what ‘evidence’ could there possibly be that he is ‘fit and proper’?
I wonder if there was someone, or more than one, on the PGB asking a similar question of the ‘evidence’? Perhaps asking:
‘OK, he’s paid his fine, he’s allowed to serve on the board of companies in South Africa, but how does that ensure he will not resort to character and give us cause to regret passing him as ‘fit and proper’?’
Edit, I realised I’d written ‘slip of the tongues’ and was about to amend it to ‘slips of the tongue’. Then I realised that it was probably quite fitting to describe King as a man with more than one tongue 😉
Barcabhoy, Matty Roth, Auldheid,
Thanks. All fair points. While my comments last night were with regard to posters on this site etc., please don’t think I think Rangers or their fans are blameless in the attitudes people hold towards them / us. We certainly don’t help ourselves in this respect.
I also miss the old TSFM logo and the fact that moderators are now posting under individual names rather than TSFM has destroyed my illusion that TSFM was an omnipresent being.
Not the most intellectually focused of my contributions, but I see from the BBC website that the Hibs v Rangers game is in the Scottish Premiership category.
They can’t help themselves these media fans, already assuming their team will be in the Premiership. This is a very petty post I know, but what if Rangers actually do go through how will those Hibee fans working at the Beeb feel then, eh.? Eh?
Looks like it will be Rangers playing Motherwell for a place in the premiership. The first half today is just the same as the 90 mins at Ibrox – Hibs marginally the better team but with zero goal threat, Rangers offering little but with a front line capable of scoring.
Motherwell should deal with either of these 2 easily as both sides are poor and would both be in the bottom third of the premier league had they been playing there this season.
I am struggling to see Stubbs reason for sticking with the same front line that played at Ibrox, cummings and Malonga are just not good enough. Surely Hibs have some young forwards that could do a better job, if not then I suspect that Hibs will be in this league for a few years.
berrty says:
Member: (24 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 1:10 pm
Looks like it will be Rangers playing Motherwell…
————
Hibs have been great entertainment for most of this season. In a just world they would have gained promotion. If the newco Rangers do get past them, and then Motherwell, I wonder if the ‘we need a 16-team top tier’ stuff will evaporate. I hope not. 16 with 2 automatic & 1 play-off spot (in the current system) would be brill, imo, offering many more Championship teams a chance of reaching the top tier.
Hibs have been entertaining this season. But over the 2 games this week they have shown why they they are not coming up. They don’t look as if they would score if they played 10 games let alone 2.
As far as a 16 team league goes, the best arguement against that is the 2 teams on display, finished 2nd and 3rd and would both be amongst the favourites for relegation (if they had the same players) in the premier league. Between them I doubt if they have 11 players good enough for the top division.
Always the bridesmaid and not the bride,some of the Hibs players lack the experience in the big games and this showed through today,Sturt McCall set out his stall and it came through for him,congrats,next hurdle Motherwell,if McCoist was still in charge I doubt Rangers would have even got this far but with McCall I wouldn’t bet against Rangers,should be a good two leg Final.
Can’t help myself: behold the wit & wisdom of DJ / his ghost writer.
And stop complaining about TRFC – you’re all just being negative ! :slamb:
“…What more can King [sic] do! Everybody and their granny has looked into him. His background has been pored over rigorously.
He is fit and proper. End of. Some folk should just let it go…
All we seem to get, though, is negativity…”
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/rangerscomment/dave-king-is-fit-and-proper-so-let-him-get-on-with-rebuilding-rangers-207785n.126781785
RyanGosling says:
Member: (148 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 1:06 am
Wottpi,
Thanks. I Always read the site daily. I haven’t posted recently because I’ve had nothing of value to add.
One thing I would like to post though- this site is always confident that it appeals to supporters of all scottish clubs. Picture yourself as a Rangers fan, read through the last couple of days of comments, and ask yourself if you’d feel welcome.
_________________________________________________________
Ryan,
Some of the legitimate opinions being expressed around the time meant the site didn’t ‘feel’ very welcoming around the time of the Meeking’s decision for ICT fans either.
Now I take the view that DK should not be allowed anywhere near the Scottish game and that all scottish fans suffer as a result of him being let over the threshhold.
That is not to direct animosity towards TRFC fans.
Many TRFC fans feel that DCK involvement in the sport helps their club (I don’t) and that the view I express is therefore an attack on them and their club.
It is not. No more than any CFC fan saying Meeking’s Handball should have led to a penalty is an attack by them on ICT.
It IS an attack on lying shysters and those who refuse to apply the rules fairly and consistently to deal with them.
The dodgy refereeing in the semi clearly worked to ICTs advantage, and unfairly so.
This is not the same as saying it was don for the benefit of ICT.
And it is not the same as saying that ICT set out to cheat (I do not believe they did), or even that the bad decision was effected with malice aforethought.
But the approbation at events that was legitimately being expressed by CFC fans about that incident inevitably caused some discomfit to ICT fans.
The natural reaction might be for us ICT fans to take defensive umbrage at our integrity being impugned by those disgruntled CFC fans, leading to fall outs and whataboutery. But this would be neither the correct nor the constructive approach.
The correct thing to do is – as I believe largely happened – for both sets of fans to recognise that had the boot been on the other foot, we would be reversing our views, and therefore we are both holding legitimate positions, that are worth respecting, and so move forward on the basis of what unites us, rather than descending into divisive wrangling.
The Meekings incident is what in F1 would be described as ‘a racing incident’. (which is not the same as ‘an honest mistake’ btw).
The DCK is something more sinister I feel.
But the main point I am making is that the discomfit that TRFC fans understandably feel hereabouts at times is – I think – a completely legitimate consequence of the circumstances which exist.
The approbation is neither aimed at, nor the discomfit confined to fans of TRFC.
And the response of TRFC fans to the legitimate grumbles about the governance of the game or the inadequacies of our journalists – especially which superficially seem to advantage them (in the short term, but actually damage them in the long etrm) to the detriment of others (long and short term) and once again, the Meekings handball is a fair parallel – is critical.
There is no universe in which the Meekings hand ball should not have led to the award of a penalty. No penalty was given. This upsets people. The upset is legitimate. And the legitimate upset discomfits some other people. That discomfiture is a sad but inevitable consequence. It is not related to any attack by those who have been legitimately upset in the first instance visited upon those who have been subsequently discomfitted.
There is no universe in which DCK should have been passed as FPP. He was passed as FPP. This upsets people. The upset is legitimate. But that upset discomfits some other people. This discomfiture is a sad but inevitable consequence. But it is not related to any attack by those who have been legitimately upset in the first instance visited on those who have been subsequently discomfitted.
There is no reason for TRFC fans to be upset by what they see here, should they maturely choose not to be so upset.
sickofitall says May 23, 2015 at 8.04 a.m.
( the link to and text of ‘Jonny McFarlane’s’ unutterable crap .)
________
I have no idea who ‘jonny’ might be. ( Although I’m
reminded of the Off-the-ball thingy about good
names for male strippers, to be found by using
one’s pet’s name along with one’s mother’s maiden
surname.).
Essentially, ‘Jonny’ is the equivalent of a climate
change or holocaust denier.
Truth stares him in the face, and he denies it.
(Rather like my 4 year old grand-daughter this very
morning, who, with chocolate all round her mouth
and empty Timtam ( calm down, please-Timtam is
a biscuit) packet lying on the floor at her feet,
simply denied thay she had eaten any.)
But he made a significant and truthful observation.
He said “…Normally you accept a bit of uproar from the East end bit this story seemed to run into much deeper waters across Scotland”
Unintentionally, ‘ Jonny’ has spoken truth.
virtually every football supporter of virtually any snd every club knows that the whole affair is not now about the old, rotten, cheating RFC of the SDM era.
No.
With the 5-way agreement it became a matter of the corruption at the heRt of the administration of our sport.
A corruption so corrupt as to allow its perpetrators to believe they could by-pass the formal rules of the SFA constitution and make utterly unconstutional decisions.
The cabal was again at its dirty work.
And Scottish fotball will have to bring it to account, or perish.
____
Anent my post at 3.47 p.m UK time, please take on board that, after a super morning at Surfers Paradise in the Gold Coast, and an afternoon down in Lennox Head in New South Wales to see the six-week old daughter of my son’s Hibs supporting best friend, I felt entitled to a wee swally. The typosin my previous post are therefore the work of a Fat Yak or three, with a wee jildy from Johnny Walker Red Label.
Not in the least sorry about that!
John Clark 4.14
Being upside doon cannae help.
Motherwell announce they have entered into a working agreement with Manchester United and will be taking five of their players on loan for their last two games. “We have decided that since the cherry picking of rules appears to be the norm and not worth the paper they are written on then why the hell shouldn’t we also do what we bloody well want regardless of sporting integrity and the good of the game.It is also our intention to appoint Fred Goodwin, Walter Anderson and the ghost of Al Capone to the Motherwell Board and we won’t hear a bad word about them, so get it right up yeez”. ” All enquiries of worthiness, unfairness or downright audacity to the above should be addressed in the first instance to The SFA, whom we have no doubt will give the matter its fullest attention “.
Christyboy
Talk nicely to Big Mike , he might be in the mood to help out.
berrty said
As far as a 16 team league goes, the best arguement against that is the 2 teams on display, finished 2nd and 3rd and would both be amongst the favourites for relegation (if they had the same players) in the premier league. Between them I doubt if they have 11 players good enough for the top division.
berrty
I reckon Rangers are slight favourites to go up, but nothing is predictable with the current squad. We won’t have anything like the same players and i would be surprised if we didn’t make top six at the least. Getting up will play a major part in our ability to attract the right level of player so it is a massive week for Rangers.
To be honest re your other point I’d like to see a 16 or 18 team league of primarily full time teams with sponsorship and prize money spread more equally and a responsibility passed to the clubs to invest in youth development. Theres a lot of talent coming through but it tends to depart to the over funded English leagues far too early. Having a bigger league plying each other twice would IMO give greater variety, more room to blood youth and also increase the chances of non Glasgow clubs winning the league (its been 30 years i believe)
Christyboy says:
Member: (39 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 5:54 pm
______________________________________________
😆 😆 😆
That is a perfect summary of the state of play!!!
as a Hibby I am naturally annoyed that our season ended today but I take the view that if we’re not good enough to beat the team that finished 3rd (and below us) over 2 legs then we don’t deserve to go up anyway.
Genuine question – loads of the posters here will have seen both Motherwell and Rangers this season. Which team is genuinely the stronger team? I’m not asking who you think will go up / stay up. I’m interested in what the posters to sfm.scot think as to which side should be the stronger? For instance I see that Hibs record in the SPL last season is very close to Motherell’s record in the SPL this season.
Cowanpete
We’re the stronger team. We will get back where we belong TM charles green / Mike Ashley / dave king / many more
RyanGosling says:
Member: (149 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 9:08 pm
———————
I think some people need to lighten up!
That was a good one Ryan 🙂
For what’s it’s worth, having seen lots of both, on their day, Rangers should go up!
Madbhoy24941 says:
Member: (70 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 9:49 pm
RyanGosling says:
Member: (149 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 9:08 pm
———————
I think some people need to lighten up!
That was a good one Ryan 🙂
For what’s it’s worth, having seen lots of both, on their day, Rangers should go up!
________________________________________________________
Ahaaaaa!
It was a joke?
Auldheid 10:08 am
My questions for DK re UEFA licence and LNS posted earlier if answered, particularly by DK, but otherwise by the SFA/SPFL, would go a long way to healing our game.
—————————————————————–
My question is why the correct name and status of the Govan club is not openly, truthfully and factually stated by the SFA, Ibrox fans or the smsm. This would go a long way to help heal our game.
Madbhoy24941 says:
Member: (70 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 9:49 pm
RyanGosling says:
Member: (149 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 9:08 pm
———————
I think some people need to lighten up!
That was a good one Ryan 🙂
For what’s it’s worth, having seen lots of both, on their day, Rangers should go up!
________________________________________________________
Ahaaaaa!
It was a joke?
Edit It’s a joke!
cowanpete says:
Member: (21 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 8:07 pm
as a Hibby I am naturally annoyed that our season ended today but I take the view that if we’re not good enough to beat the team that finished 3rd (and below us) over 2 legs then we don’t deserve to go up anyway.
Genuine question – loads of the posters here will have seen both Motherwell and Rangers this season. Which team is genuinely the stronger team? I’m not asking who you think will go up / stay up. I’m interested in what the posters to sfm.scot think as to which side should be the stronger? For instance I see that Hibs record in the SPL last season is very close to Motherell’s record in the SPL this season.
///////////////////////////////////////////
depends what you mean by stronger
motherwell are in the position they ars in because over the season they were not good enough
But you know exactly the quality they can have when playing at their best
if they can add to that quality next year and get more consistency then maybe they can add to the premiership
also they dont have a lot of resources but seem to find good decent players due to good coaching staff and scouting
TRFC have shown some consistency over the last few games
But can they sustain it over a season?
if they do gain promotion what quality will they bring up with them?
at least half their team is out of contract and the other half are out of their depth in the championship They virtualy depend on a core 5/6 players (which is good by most teams standers) and out of these 5/6 players at least 5 are out of contract or heading back to their parent club
on top of this the big question is how do they find players as good or better than the ones leaving and how do they fund ant acquisitions
so it would be best to ask which team do we think will win the play-off final
rather than which is stronger
If anybody has posted, sorry I missed it. Please pay your respects to Robin Marwick, a pure Rovers man, there is no other equal!! Deepest condolences to his family.
http://albionroversfc.co.uk/?p=521
RyanGosling says:
May 23, 2015 at 9:08 pm
We’re the stronger team. We will get back where we belong TM charles green / Mike Ashley / dave king / many more
—————————————————–
It’s an interesting thought Ryan, if Green / Ashley / King rather than your team were to end up where they belong! If that was to happen, who knows, they might even bump into David Murray there.
Tartanwulver,
If Barclays can be hit with a fine in the billions, admit criminal damage and yet face no individual criminal charges, I think we’ll be waiting a while to see certain people where they actually belong.
Joking aside, I actually think Rangers do belong at the pinnacle of the scottish game given the advantage we have through fan base, income etc. I have no issue when people talk about our rightful place in that respect. The part I do take very serious issue with is where people feel free to make such statements but never acknowledge the fact that the reason we are not in our “rightful place” is F***ING ENTIRELY OUR OWN FAULT!!!!
cowanpete says:
Member: (21 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 8:07 pm
as a Hibby I am naturally annoyed that our season ended today but I take the view that if we’re not good enough to beat the team that finished 3rd (and below us) over 2 legs then we don’t deserve to go up anyway.
Genuine question – loads of the posters here will have seen both Motherwell and Rangers this season. Which team is genuinely the stronger team? I’m not asking who you think will go up / stay up. I’m interested in what the posters to sfm.scot think as to which side should be the stronger? For instance I see that Hibs record in the SPL last season is very close to Motherell’s record in the SPL
=========================================
My take as a ‘Well fan (and been watching the opposition many times [lets face it their never off the telly]) is the Rangers defence in particular Forster McGregor have come on leaps and bounds since they first started as has Zaliukis. A year ago they were getting slated. However I’m not sure they’ve been really stretched. Obviously loaner Vuckicis the man we need to stop. However Well never man mark anyone.
The Well defence is a minefield of uncertainties bar Hammill.
However in attack I truly believe we should just tear in there as we have the personnel to do it away and home.
We will likely put the ball in our own net but I think attack and fitness wise we have them.
Financial Fair Play
=====================
An interesting take on FFP – which I had assumed was to protect clubs – where Martin Samuel suggests it is a form of protectionism, and unworkable.
“…In FFP terms, one size could never fit all. How can clubs be tethered to turnover if Barcelona and Real Madrid’s television deal is constructed in an entirely different way from that of the rest of Europe?
How can clubs all work under the same financial regulation when each country has different laws on, for instance, taxation — meaning at one stage it would have cost Paris Saint-Germain roughly 30 per cent more to pay Wayne Rooney the same salary he earns at Manchester United…”
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sport/football/article-3088434/I-told-Michel-Platini-destroying-football-finally-seen-it.html
RyanGosling says:
Member: (148 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 1:06 am
Wottpi,
Thanks. I Always read the site daily. I haven’t posted recently because I’ve had nothing of value to add.
One thing I would like to post though- this site is always confident that it appeals to supporters of all scottish clubs. Picture yourself as a Rangers fan, read through the last couple of days of comments, and ask yourself if you’d feel welcome.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ryan, as you well know most folk on this site welcome the views from someone like yourself who apparently has a more balanced and worldly-wise view of the goings on at your club.
However, while I accept it may not be representative of all Rangers fans, the public face of your fellow supporters is that of a blinkered, community singing, missile throwing, contradictory nobody likes us we don’t care mob.
There has been no effort whatsoever by club or fans to try an build new bridges while on the journey back up.
Until fans of other clubs see that I am afraid the welcome mat will not be put out for those with attitudes that are no longer relevant to the way Scottish Football is today.
As a thought, given King and Co are the only show in town will they have the balls to say their investment is dependant on the various factions of the support sorting out their ways and joining the 21st century.
Browsing this morning,farfing about on Rangers.co.uk and had a look at various sections one being their business overview,last paragraph is the only piece that is factual,that is that Stuart McCall is the present Manager the rest belongs to another club,not good for the future if they are living a lie,another was the club statement on fans behaviour,again peddling lies as last Wednesday’s fans behaviour has not been addressed,apologies if I have missed this but to date it has not been highlighted apart from a Hibs blogger,I stopped browsing the site as I fear there will be more incorrect information on there,transparency is certainly not part of the new regimes agenda,I will now browse some other clubs sites to compare and contrast.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/new-rangers-chairman-dave-king-5751527
Not much of a dig at D Murry but its a start
And Just a wee touch of moon beams thrown in for good measure
cowanpete says:
Member: (21 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 8:07 pm
as a Hibby I am naturally annoyed that our season ended today but I take the view that if we’re not good enough to beat the team that finished 3rd (and below us) over 2 legs then we don’t deserve to go up anyway.
==============================
Two ways of looking at it. Rules are rules including play off rules, but Hibs over the league season proved themselves a better team than Rangers.
On Radio Clyde last night the host was openly asking pundits how they thought Rangers would fare against Celtic in the top league next season. Yet they wonder why people get sick of their arrogance!
tcup 2012 says:
May 24, 2015 at 8:41 am
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/new-rangers-chairman-dave-king-5751527
———————————————————-
Interesting headline in the Record there, i.e.
“New Rangers chairman Dave King slams former Ibrox supremo David Murray AGAIN and claims he cost him £20 million”
So there we have it folks, in black and white in the mainstream Scottish sports media. Dave King – chairman of New Rangers.
Thanks Merc Doc @ May 23 10.14pm for the notification of Robin Marwick’s passing. I never knew the man, but judging from what I hear and read he was the very essence of what our game should be about, selfless work for the good of the club and the sport.
Will people take his example?
May he rest in peace.
From The Scotsman-
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/dave-king-room-on-rangers-wall-for-craig-whyte-1-3781732
I don’t honestly know what to make of this part-
Doesn’t King have a £20million claim lodged with BDO, which now looks likely to produce a dividend? Yet King is resigned to not getting the money back?
Generally, a good article, which does highlight a few “inconsistencies” between the words and deeds of Mr King. The guff about the Boardroom portraits is really beyond parody, though.
We are in for an interesting time regards Daves comments,I am beggining to think it’s not the real Dave and Charley G has morphed into D.King,the next few months will sort this out when the plan for future funding is revealed,maybe the msm can get us a picture of Daves hands,just to be sure.
The hard part of being mendacious is remembering what lies you told previously! 😯
neepheid says:
Member: (587 comments)
May 24, 2015 at 10:04 am
So Dave King thinks David Murray should have been honest to him about his money! Pots and kettles springs to mind, and words we are not allowed to use to describe him on here 🙄
Sadly for King, I actually get the impression that, unlike Green, King believes the words that come from his lips. Sadly for TRFC, the SFA and those people who have lost money in his investment schemes, that makes it so much harder for the gullible to spot a charlatan.
From the Scotsman article: “I don’t think anyone has the right to self-edit their history. I think it would be wrong”
We need to keep a list of the utterings of Chairman King, it looks like they are soon going to match, if not outstrip, the ravings of Chairman King. It’s the complete lack of self-awareness that gives him the edge. Marvellous stuff!
neepheid says:
Member: (587 comments)
May 24, 2015 at 10:04 am
From The Scotsman-
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/dave-king-room-on-rangers-wall-for-craig-whyte-1-3781732
I don’t honestly know what to make of this part-
Doesn’t King have a £20million claim lodged with BDO, which now looks likely to produce a dividend? Yet King is resigned to not getting the money back?
——————————–
Yet not so long ago.
Dave King to sue Sir David Murray for £20m.
Rangers director Dave King today revealed he is going to sue former club owner Sir David Murray for 20 million pounds.Wednesday 7 March 2012
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/dave-king-to-sue-sir-david-murray-for-20m.2012039953
He could have let everyone know how that is going.
You should never wish you life away,but I wish it was xmas speech time from Dave,Charles Green eat your heart out,pork pies instead of lamb this xmas.
upthehoops says:
Member: (702 comments)
May 24, 2015 at 8:50 am
cowanpete says:
Member: (21 comments)
May 23, 2015 at 8:07 pm
as a Hibby I am naturally annoyed that our season ended today but I take the view that if we’re not good enough to beat the team that finished 3rd (and below us) over 2 legs then we don’t deserve to go up anyway.
==============================
Two ways of looking at it. Rules are rules including play off rules, but Hibs over the league season proved themselves a better team than Rangers.
………….
I fully agree with both statements but perhaps just a bit cynical in suspecting that the play-off format was fabricated by forward thinking administrators to ensure that if a certain team didn’t win the Championship, they would get extra bites at the cherry!!!
Whatever, Hibs are clearly not ready for promotion – perhaps next year! Sadly, with the King decision, I think it is now absolutely clear, that Scottish football is being gnawed away at from the inside and I don’t see it ever changing – though I hope it does. I take my leave now and wish all the real FPPs, i.e. You who contribute here, goodbye and good luck.
Tartanwulver says:
May 24, 2015 at 11:50 am
I meant to say that Chairman King’s pronouncements will soon outstrip Chairman Green’s! But you got that, right? Sigh…must have coffee before writing next time.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/fifa-insist-rangers-same-football-5752723
Here we go again!
neepheid says:
Member: (587 comments)
May 24, 2015 at 10:04 am
…
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/dave-king-room-on-rangers-wall-for-craig-whyte-1-3781732
…
The guff about the Boardroom portraits is really beyond parody, though.
=======================================================
[King said]: “…History is what it is, good and bad. I think Sandy Jardine once made a suggestion saying he could accept a portrait of Craig Whyte there but we would have to turn it to face the wall.”…
To reinforce the ‘continuity of Rangers’ history’, then Whyte must get his mug added to the wall, absolutely [ 😉 ], after the last added portrait of [S]DM.
But it does seem a bit ‘rich’ that a convicted, financially irresponsible person such as King is commenting on Whyte’s suitability as he was also financially irresponsible – and yet King fails to make any comment on Murray’s suitability, as he was also financially irresponsible.
But, if they do take the moral high ground and omit Whyte – then shirley every Rangers FC Chairman portrait prior to [S]DM should be removed from the wall – for their irresponsible promotion of sectarian policies, which the current club loudly proclaims has no place whatsoever at Ibrox ? 🙄
Daily Record stating Rangers enforced relegation in FIFA magazine. Really is that what actually took place?
neepheid says:
Member: (588 comments)
May 24, 2015 at 3:34 pm
So, a magazine that can’t get it right about how a ‘Rangers’ entered the bottom tier of Scottish football, is considered proof positive on matters involving Scots Law!
Somehow I doubt that article was written by anyone of substance at FIFA (I can say that with some certainty because if it had been it would have been writ large in the comedy piece), and was probably initiated by a suggestion from someone who…is a member of the SMSM, perhaps!
Only in the Daily Record…and other comics masquerading as newspapers!
Today the beano puts out the same team propaganda and Bbcsportsound runs with helicopter Sunday memories (you know the easter road story). Why today?
valentinesclown says:
Member: (154 comments)
May 24, 2015 at 4:35 pm
Today the beano puts out the same team propaganda and Bbcsportsound runs with helicopter Sunday memories (you know the easter road story). Why today?
=====================
Seems to me that Level 5 have been putting in some serious overtime this weekend. Bad news due from Ibrox?
Peter Eggenbottom,a writer of sorts who lives in Switzerland wrote the piece for the FIFA weekly free magazine,no where in his article does he mention they are the same club,he does mention they entered into liquidation ,Daily Ranger at it again,I wish they would make their minds up,today they led with the new Rangers and their chairman and now this.Deary me,and Dave says you do not play about with history.
Dave King
http://youtu.be/B_lRD_oSQRA
3minutes in…he distinguishes between
…The Old Rangers and The New Rangers !!
Why did he do that?
Another hand ball not given,which would have had celtic play against ten men,if the ref had sent him off.But celtic finished the job today the way they should have done in the last game.
I had to mention the hand ball,before someone came on and asked why no one was questioning the hand ball
Good Afternoon.
We are often given the impression that our game is devalued in some way. Often – but not exclusively – in relation to there being no ‘strong Rangers’ in the top flight.
There’s a narrative that says Scottish football is in the doldrums, and – by implication – it’s not worth winning anything within it.
I say that this view is nonsense! And my little review of Celtic’s season expands upon my opinion.
https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/roar/
Enjoy the rest of the day. And keep enjoying Scottish football. It’s great.
On an upbeat note, I saw an image from Celtic Park of two huge green & white Saltires with (what looked like) the club crest in the middle. Nice that — the Scottish Champions.
Is the Daily Record & Mail on the wind-up on trophy day? The British Broadcasting Service annaw, apparently? Glad I missed both.
Was busy with other stuff but did catch Steve Bruce and a little of Kevin Keegen on one of the channels. What a decent bloke Steve Bruce is, no excuses. Restores your faith in fitba to hear a manager like him. Keegen spoke acres of sense on Newcastle and on football in general. There’s two Englishmen you’d swap for Regan & Doncaster any day.
valentinesclown says:
May 24, 2015 at 4:00 pm
Daily Record stating Rangers enforced relegation in FIFA magazine. Really is that what actually took place?
—————————————————-
VC, I posted this a while back. It’s a reply to me on 4 March 2015 from a David Ogilvie at the SPFL after I asked why ‘Rangers’ had been treated so much worse than Hearts and Dunfermline for going into Administration. As you’ll see, the SPFL knows they weren’t relegated.
“Apologies for the delay.
Please see below.
1. Had Rangers Oldco been able to agree a CVA with its creditors, then it should have been able to emerge from administration (as did Hearts and Dunfermline) without further sporting sanctions. However, a CVA was rejected by Oldco’s creditors. This led to Oldco being liquidated. Newco applied for membership of the SFL and was granted associate membership but on condition it started in SFL Division Three. Newco bought the assets of Oldco from the administrations and took Rangers FC into the SFL. Rangers FC were not relegated from the SPL.
2. The European place that would otherwise have gone to Rangers for finishing 2nd in the SPL could not be taken up by Rangers FC due to UEFA Rules applicable in circumstances where the owner of a club goes into liquidation.
Kind regards”
neepheid says:
Member: (589 comments)
May 24, 2015 at 3:34 pm
——————————————————-
http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/AF-Magazine/FIFAWeekly/02/60/74/96/20_EN_Weekly_Lowres_Neutral.PDF
(Page 16)
Scotland: Championship
Rangers eye top flight return
Peter Eggenberger is a football
writer who lives in Switzerland.
There have been exactly 400 matches between fierce Glasgow rivals Celtic and Rangers, but supporters of the two clubs have been waiting for the next league instalment of the Old Firm derby since the 2011/12 season. In spring 2012, Rangers were placed into liquidation and relegated to the fourth tier of Scottish football. The 54-time champions overcame another obstacle on the long road back to the Premier League last weekend but, after winning two successive
promotions in style, that final leap is proving a little more difficult.
Following a number of inconsistent performances, Rangers finished the regular Championship season in third place, 24 points behind Edinburgh-based champions Heart of Midlothian, who were promoted automatically. The team that finishes third is only guaranteed a place in the quarter-finals of the promotion play-offs. In order to reach the top flight,
Rangers would have to win two-legged ties against fourth-placed Queen of the South, Championship runners-up Hibernian, and finally Motherwell, who finished second bottom in the Premiership.
The nerves of the Rangers players, coaching staff and supporters were stretched to breaking point against Queen of the South. A 2-1 victory away from home was followed by a hard-fought 1-1 draw in front of a near-50,000
capacity crowd at Ibrox, which sealed Rangers’ place in the play-off semi-final. DefenderLee Wallace netted Rangers’ equaliser after Queens’ top scorer Derek Lyle had given the visitors the lead. With nine minutes left on
the clock, Slovenian forward Haris Vuckic was forced to head an effort off the line to prevent the tie from going into extra time.
“It was one of the most stressful games of my coaching career,” said Rangers boss Stuart McCall after the match. The 40-time Scotland international can
afford to breathe a little easier after the first leg against Hibernian on 20 May, though. Goals from Nicky Clark and Kenny Miller earned Rangers a 2-0 home victory and a solid foundation for the return leg three days later.
Where exactly does this,
**“ FIFA insist Rangers ARE the same football club despite liquidation woes”
appear anywhere in the article above ?
or ** “DESPITE claims that Rangers are a new club, FIFA have stepped into the argument and insisted that Rangers are the same football club”.
Somebody at the DR really needs to look up the word Journalism
Here is some help:-
A yellow journalism | Encyclopedia Britannica
B journalism | Encyclopedia Britannica
Since the DR is fond of quizzes
Quiz
Which category are the headlines above? **
I find The Daily Record to be full of trashy opinion pieces where inexactitude masquerades as fact. I dont read it.
I dont particularly read The Daily Mail either but i do read Martin Samuel’s columns. He is an intelligent writer who looks under some of football’s uglier stones.
In many ways i wish this article from last year had been read by SOMEONE at the SFA before organising the upcoming Scotland friendly with Qatar:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2583721/MARTIN-SAMUEL-The-World-Cup-hosts-bed-terrorists.html
As a supporter all i can do is not legitimise the game by attending or watching. I cannot see the upside. Perhaps the SFA received substantial money to play the game.
Whatever the reasons, i abhore everything about this future World Cup, from the workers treated as slaves, the near four figure deaths of construction workers to the quite apparent links to terrorism.
This game should not have been arranged. I hope the SFA enjoy their blood money.
woodstein says:
Member: (103 comments)
May 24, 2015 at 7:16 pm
neepheid says:
Member: (589 comments)
May 24, 2015 at 3:34 pm
——————————————————-
http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/AF-Magazine/FIFAWeekly/02/60/74/96/20_EN_Weekly_Lowres_Neutral.PDF
…
Peter Eggenberger is a football
writer who lives in Switzerland.
There have been exactly 400 matches between fierce Glasgow rivals Celtic and Rangers, but supporters of the two clubs have been waiting for the next league instalment of the Old Firm derby since the 2011/12 season. In spring 2012, Rangers were placed into liquidation and relegated to the fourth tier of Scottish football. The 54-time champions overcame…
==============================
We know this is a non-story, and a rather desperate piece of ‘positive PR’, IMO.
And this Eggenberger chap is just another, poorly informed writer / journalist.
But this recent onslaught of unquestioned PR mince in the SMSM since King’s coronation is perhaps an indicator of the ‘Level 11’ of absolute nonsense still to be copied/pasted – if TRFC manages to get past Motherwell.
:slamb: :slamb: :slamb:
Evening all. I inadvertently stumbled into the Inverness CT Directors when they were going into Celtic Park today (I was not Boardroom bound BTW). At face value they seemed a fine bunch of men, although I did not engage with any of them. I regret not wishing them luck for next week, and please any Falkirk fans forgive me for saying that. To counter I’d say if Peter Houston guides Falkirk to the cup he will be a legend. Winning it with Dundee Utd and Falkirk would be a huge achievement.
So, if the Record want to back the FIFA Say Gers Relegated story up, they need only reprint their own back page from the day after it happened. Over to you, Daily Record, and good luck with finding it.
Incidentally, following on from my previous post, this article written recently still gives cause for serious concern about the abuse of migrant workers:
https://www.the-newshub.com/football/alarming-death-toll-among-construction-workers-for-2022-qatar-world-cup
It should be remembered that these are workers dying on construction projects for a football tournament.
i would ask the following question of the SFA heirarchy, who passed YOU as fit and proper?
On Mike Ashley’s call for an EGM; has the 3 week period for the board to respond passed yet, and has the EGM been called?
Regardless, the request for the EGM wasn’t, of course, just to pass a motion to have the Ashley £5m loan repaid, but to force the board/King to clarify his claims he’d had a NOMAD waiting in the wings and to, basically, prove he hadn’t lied about having one.
Now, clearly King hadn’t lied to shareholders in what would have been a very dishonourable, to say the least, thing to do (if not illegal), otherwise, after quizzing him extensively on this most recent sign of dishonesty, and demanding documentary evidence, the SFA wouldn’t have passed him as fit and proper to hold a position on a board of any club if he’d lied to the very shareholders who’s interests he was duty bound to safeguard!
With that in mind, why doesn’t King just make his rival look very stupid by announcing exactly who his NOMAD was and produce whatever letters, emails and draft contracts must have existed for him to be so confident that there was no problem in this regard? If no such documentary evidence exists (he couldn’t have been all that sure if there was none, but maybe he trusts other people’s word, on the grounds that it’s very unlikely that 100% of the people in a room are as dishonest as he, himself, is) he could just get the (once) potential NOMAD to provide something similar to that provided by SARS that satisfied our intrepid SFA watchdogs!
It really would be that simple to put this one to bed. Maybe if he did, Big Mike would be satisfied that his money was in safe hands and he’d allow RIFC/TRFC as much time as they’d like to find the funds to clear the debt and release the much missed assets held as security 😉
Good Evening
Isn’t it ironic that the Scottish Mainstream Media – which has done so much to discredit the written word as a legitimate and reliable method of communication – is now holding out a magazine article as evidence that Rangers didn’t die…?
You have to laugh.
Enjoy the rest of the evening.
TheClumpany says:
Member: (34 comments)
May 24, 2015 at 9:14 pm
Good Evening
Isn’t it ironic that the Scottish Mainstream Media – which has done so much to discredit the written word as a legitimate and reliable method of communication – is now holding out a magazine article as evidence that Rangers didn’t die…?
You have to laugh.
________________________________________________________________________________
Whats the plural of ‘Doth protest to much’ ?
senior says:
Member: (52 comments)
May 24, 2015 at 9:37 pm
Whats the plural of ‘Doth protest to much’ ?
___________________________________
They lieth!!!!
A suggestion for a future SFM post, podcast or radio interview:
Mike Mulraney – Chairman of Alloa Athletic, SPFL Board member and SFA Professional Game Board member
I know nothing about the man beyond his recent football related comments that clarified the rules relating to play-off ticket pricing and why season ticket holders shouldn’t be given free entry and his call to walk away from the BBC’s TV deal for Scottish football.
I had a quick look at his Twitter feed and he seems to openly make his views known on a range of issues relating to business, politics and football. I’m sure his political beliefs differ from my own and others that post on SFM, but its pretty boring if we only listen to those who’s views we already agree with.
Back in 2012, he publicly stated that he didn’t buy into the “Armageddon” scenario of Rangers starting in the 4th tier that was being peddled by the SFA/SPL.
I also see that Allow recently contributed £2/ticket sold from a recent play-off game to a local Alloa food bank, something I applaud.
Topically, he is a member of the SFA Professional Game Board, the body that was charged with assessing Paul Murray’s Fit and Proper Person status but, for reasons that don’t appear to have been questioned by the football media, were not charged with performing the same assessment for Dave King!