As we all know, this site emerged from the ashes of RTC. The wish of the original administrator of the site, one which I wholeheartedly share, was to keep together the wonderful community RTC had built, in terms of both personnel and spirit. There are still many individuals around who were also part of RTC, and regrettably many who are no longer with us. The RTC spirit however, that of a cross-party football site where issues can be discussed in a respectful and insightful manner remains. The “wisdom of the crowd” phenomenon is also with us to perhaps an even greater extent than before, and consequently SFM’s credentials as a formidable alternative to the print media have grown.
In recent times, many contributors have expressed frustration that we are pretty much a talking shop and little else; characterised as “a lot of gum bashing and no teeth”. I think that is fair comment up to a point, but then again our aim – up to now – has been to simply present an alternative view – a view that has increasingly become the fan view as opposed to the industry view (the industry being made up of club officials, players, and press).
In fact the way I see it personally, SFM has evolved to a point where it has become the watchdog (monitor if you will) of an industry which is subject to very little oversight. The Rangers situation will eventually be done with (no laughing at the back please), and like everything else will be consigned to history (albeit more than one). The same self-interest and lack of regard for sporting integrity though will still remain, and the need for oversight will remain also.
Having arrived at those conclusions, we have two alternatives; the first is to remain as we are (which is not a bad place to be), and the second is that SFM has to expand its role.
In recent weeks, the mods have met to discuss this, and we think that we ought to give the latter option a try. As to how we want to achieve that, and we have come up with a skeleton plan as follows;
1. We need to move into the area of gathering news content as well as commenting on what appears elsewhere;
2. We should act as a cross-club portal to get good fan site content from all clubs to a wider audience;
3. We need to highlight the positives in the game as well as the negatives;
4. We should become an actively campaigning body, aligning with fan groups to lobby for the changes we think important.
In order to achieve these objectives, more time will need to be spent on communication like podcasts, adding news content, expanding membership and building links with other fan groups. Time will also need to be spent setting up features, attending press conferences etc. Later in the year, one of the mods will have much more time on his hands to help achieve this.
Podcasts, premium content, labour, organisation and all of the above costs money, and ultimately a subscription based model backed by sponsorship seems to be our best way of achieving that. In order to give us a head start, we will in the next few months be putting together a business-plan and a pitch for Crowd Funding investment.
This is not to say that our existing model has been a failure. We have successfully managed to keep ourselves afloat through the ad-hoc generosity of people in our community, although the inability to keep the podcasts going has been a bit frustrating. Finding income streams which are more solid will allow us to respond to events more quickly (for example mounting an ad campaign to respond to some event or other, or buying new equipment), and hopefully achieve all of our objectives – and build a bigger audience base for our message.
Of course a move of this nature will require that, in the interests of transparency, anonymity of SFM will have to be set aside. That will not affect any of our contributors, and our practice of using (sometimes) imaginative names on the blog will remain. However, for crowd funding to be successful, we will require to have a board in place, and there is no hiding place from Companies House. The make up of the board is also crucial, and in addition to consideration of blog members for that role, we will be looking to have respected people from without.
I imagine there may be a consequent subtle effect on moderation policy to take into account.
The reason I have made this post is to keep the community up to speed with events. Although we have decided to move forward to see if we can get support for our business plan, that plan is by no means finished. As I said earlier, the “wisdom of crowds” has made our community unique and given it its credibility. There’s a lot more wisdom out there we hope to tap into before we go ahead with our initiative.
We already had someone in mind for chairman of the new board, but events have conspired tragically to rob us of that – and had the effect of postponing this announcement. However we would like to hear suggestions for suitable outside candidates for board and committee places.
We also want to hear from you if you have a suggestion to be added to our wish list of SFM function above – or even if you think it is a mistake to embark on this course.
This is a very big move for SFM, so we don’t want to rush into anything. We need to listen to what you folks have to say, because if the merging SFM is not considered a better SFM by our community there is very little point in looking to fund it.
mcfc says: Member: (1342 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 11:21 am
Thanks for number crunching – there was a post by a “reasonable bear” a few days ago and in it they said soemthing like “Dave King wantes to get back to full priced season tickets” and gave a number £700! Think he was using The Arsenal’s price list not The Rangers’.
Not at all picking a hole , but does anyone know what the hospitality tickets and boxes make on a year? I had to give up my season ticket (as much because the flights from London were not compatible with the increasignly erratic kick-off times as due to changes in circumstance) but my buddy and I buy the single hospitality tickets so hopefully the team doesn’t lose out too much. My point is that there is always talk of these hospitality revenue streams (NFL teams flip cities just to access more “Skybox” revenues)but I’m not sure if they are in the “onerous contract” file, or the regualr income.
Fisiani: ” Anyone got any good news? It all looks like Liquidation to me.”
I think you answered your own question….. 😈 😈 😈
My favourite section of Roddy Forsyth’s Q & A with DCK is undoubtedly
COULDN’T THE SAME SITUATION COULD HAPPEN AGAIN?
“It’s not a worry for me because I’m involved in the process now. I wasn’t previously. I’m in a position to influence that and make sure we go about it in the proper manner. We need to make sure that while we are willing to spend the money, I use the word ‘invest’ deliberately. We are going to make an investment.
“Just because it’s a negative cash flow doesn’t mean we are losing money. (My parenthesis 😕 ) If we invest wisely in the right squad, do what we have to do this year and go forward with the nucleus of a strong team, that’s far preferable to shuffling along and doing the minimum to win the Championship then having to rebuild again for the Premiership.
“So it makes business sense to accelerate that level of investment. I want to see over-investment not from the club’s point of view, but in terms of accelerating the timing of the investment in terms of what might be required to win the Championship.”
Confused? Well….me too!
DCK’s logic appears to be…
1st Para:
My predecessors were fools you were right to be concerned about. But, as a RRM my judgement and business acumen is superior to the point of infallibility.
2nd Para:
“Just because it’s a negative cash flow doesn’t mean we are losing money.”
I had to read that several times as I couldn’t believe that anyone could write something that innumerate. I then had to lay down to ponder if any logic could possibly support such a statement. Quite quickly my mind was filled by scenes of tumbleweed followed by a loud voice shouting “That’s just mental!”
Then there’s “If we invest wisely…”
It seems that the logic here is no matter how much we spend to gain promotion, there will be a financial return equivalent to or greater than the amount of our investment. I can see a valid theory there, but without having quantified the relevant amounts of the “investment” and “returns” the theory rapidly falls into the category of “Moonbeams”
Smarter than the average bear? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Not on this evidence!
cavansam says:
Member: (27 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 12:01 pm
The Cat NR1
Well the website says Season ticket prices for 2015/16 start FROM as little as £53 for juveniles, £312 for adults and £210 for concessions so you could be right. £500 would be taking the proverbial though surely!
=============================
Taking the p. and Ibrox go hand in hand, as they’ve been doing it to us all for years. 😈
However, it does seem to be the only way to get the figures to balance as MCFC showed. Perhaps they have a lower number (say 1,000-2,000) of even higher hospitality based tickets to boost the average price? I assume that they still have the Club Deck and Bar 72 area, which would both attract a significant premium price.
jockybhoy says:
Member: (83 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 12:07 pm
Not at all picking a hole , but does anyone know what the hospitality tickets
and boxes make on a year?
===================================
Fair point, but I’m not sure it would make a big difference – maybe a few thousand pounds times a smallish number – so maybe half a million max Incl VAT. I think the point is that King is happy to push out obviously flawed numbers that cause a lot of discusssion here – lapped up by the MSM and bears – whilst the big questions remain – “Where’s YOUR money Mr King?, “Is this ego trip costing YOU anything, Mr King?” In fact if King is taking a Chairman’s salary, he could be a net drain on the clumpany’s finances. Let’s hear an MSM poddle ask that one.
Meanwhile, in the land of Moonbeams, Sugar Daddies and Not Facing Up To Reality (Bears Den)…
My emphasis
So, lessons learned then. 🙄
As well as a gushing two-page spread on the King’s new broom, the Daily Record has included a footnote article informing the nation that the Ibrox season tickets are now on sale. It also lists the prices for adults, OAPs and kids.
This time last year the STV sports slot was alerting its viewers that the Sevco briefs were now available.
The hard pressed advertising agencies must be raging at being by-passed by all this free publicity.
Well, If I was a Rangers fan, and based on Patey’s previous form, if he’s sounding a note of caution on King’s plans, I’d be looking forward to ‘The Strains of Zadok The Priest’ (that’s how pretentious journalists term it, isn’t it?) within 2 years!
The Cat NR1 says:
Member: (440 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 12:18 pm
Having enough premium seats/STs available to make up the ‘quantum’ gap is one thing, having enough bears with the wherewithall to fill them is another matter altogether! What’s more, in the Murray days of hubris, the ‘prawn sandwich brigade’ of wealthy businessmen would be only too happy to fill those seats; is the kudos there now in a second year of matches against Dumbarton, Livingston etc?
Bit harsh – I think they have learned a lesson. Last time around it was ‘Too many people with too much money’. This time around they’re at least acknowledging that there aren’t many people with too much money. It’s progress, at least.
I’ll just gloss over the utter-dependence-on-a-sugar-daddy-as-the-only-option bit….
mcfc says:
Member: (1344 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 12:05 pm
The Cat NR1 says:
Member: (439 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 11:48 am
=======================================================
Thanks. The best possible interpretation is that King is desperately spinning plates in the hope of something changing for the better. Maybe Murray (P) is living in hope of “investment” from American bears. But time is short and things are not looking good. King is losing the crowd – he doesn’t have the magic touch of Charles Green – who could make the most ridiculous claims – but still charm the bears. I think King’s “Over Investment” will mark his time at Ibrox, like Green’s “500,000,000 bears”.
“Is there a higher cost ST in some parts of the ground that would increase the quantum? If 10K were £500 each, ” would be a very good question for a journalist to ask – after realising the numbers given don’t add up 🙂
Meanwhile, Ashley must be sitting in his citadel stroking his big white cat (not a euphemism) and smiling one hell of a smile.
====================
King’s overinvestment “strategy” comes under the polishing a turd school of ficsal policies. Sometimes, it is better to just go back and start again (and I don’t mean Third Rangers, by that).
DK seems to be following the path to Einstein’s (possibly wrongly attributed?) definition of insanity, by attempting to repeat past errors and hoping for a different outcome.
We aren’t doing DK any favours at the moment with insanity and delusion being mentioned in the space of a few hours. Sorry Dave, but that’s the way it looks without any tangible evidence to the contrary. 😡
Sorry and I know that there is no need to go over old ground here of all places. I just wanted to re-emphasise a point once more.
It would appear that King’s only meaningful investment to the new club (since the shares previously purchased were to the benefit of the seller) is going to be his BDO payout from oldco. Just to highlight that (if it is approved which I still don’t think is cut and dried) and whenever it actually pays out there are those trying to link it to his original 20m investment in (I think) Murray Sports. That is wrong. That money went down SDM’s ego-drain. Full stop. Period. After that event a wee Glasgow no-mark turned up and paid off oldco’s debt for them. Lloyds didn’t just disappear. They were paid off on RFCold’s behalf. A minor infraction regarding that payment that is subject to current court proceedings was considered serious enough that one participants insurers put £24m of new money into the pile. (the flip side is that the no-mark has a £24m debit currently against his good name). It is King’s share of these funds that he increasingly seems to be relying on. If was BDO I wouldn’t be in any hurry!
They’re Messing With Our Minds
If there’s one thing I know it is that Neil Patey has yet to get a prediction right when it comes to The Rangers. In fact, his usual smiley, happy people stance makes Clare Balding look terminally glum.
But, when I read his latest piece, it sounds like 24 carat logic compared to King’s Invest, Invest, Invest strategy.
Common sense and experience tells me Patey is 100% wrong, agenda driven and hopelessly optimistic for his team, but then that would make King’s position totally away with the fairies – and he’s the Chairman. And that would mean someone is much wronger than Patey – which is surreal and disturbing and confusing and ….
http://www.teamtalk.com/rangers/9879557/-
Did anyone see this news, great to see the terraces return (all be it safer then the terraces of old):
CELTIC Football Club is delighted today (9/6/15) to announce that it has been granted permission to introduce “safe standing” through the installation of a rail seating system at Celtic Park.
Celtic has been at the forefront of attempts in the UK to introduce this measure, having been in dialogue with the relevant authorities for over five years.
It is proposed that the rail seating area will initially accommodate up to 2,600 supporters and after we consult with our supporters, could potentially be introduced for the start of season 2016/17.
Celtic Chief Executive Peter Lawwell commented: “Celtic has worked tirelessly on this issue and we are delighted that this permission has finally been granted”.
“The introduction of rail seating at Celtic Park represents an investment in spectator safety. Across football globally, the reality is that some supporters are choosing to stand at matches. This is something we must accept and manage and also understand the positive effect which these areas have on atmosphere at matches”.
“Celtic’s primary objective will always be the safety and comfort of its supporters – this new system will now allow fans to stand safely at matches.”
“Rail seating has been in place in European football for some time and there has been considerable demand for some form of “safe standing” within the UK and particularly from our supporters. We are sure the rail seating section will prove very popular with supporters and we look forward to its introduction.”
“I would like to thank Glasgow City Council for their support in delivering this measure and for the backing they have given to Celtic’s focus on safety at matches.”
Independent Safety and Security expert Dr. Steve Frosdick has been closely involved in Celtic’s work in this area and in the application to the City Council.
Steve added: “This is a great day for the Club and its fans. This is a pioneering move by Celtic and one which has spectator safety at its core”.
“For the first time in the UK, football fans will be able to stand to watch the game from purpose-built accommodation which is demonstrably safe. The club and its fans are to be congratulated for the way they have worked together to make the case to the authorities. Glasgow City Council and the emergency services are also to be commended, firstly for their rigorous scrutiny of the proposal and secondly for having the courage to grant the first approval.”
“Although standing up throughout the match has become increasingly common, persistent standing between rows of seats has been a concern for football clubs and the authorities. Clearly the Club was keen to find a better way of safely accommodating those fans who wanted to stand”.
“There was of course no question of going back to the standing terraces of old. However the new style rail seating found in Germany and Austria provides the solution the Club was seeking. The seat folds away and each fan stands in their own designated space behind a waist-high rail”.
“This is a system which has operated successfully in Europe for a number of years and I am convinced it is one which will prove to be highly successful and popular at Celtic Park.”
TheClumpany says:
Member: (54 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 12:11 am
RF: MIKE ASHLEY WANTS HIS £5 MILLION LOAN REPAID.
DK: “… That’s part of the broader commercial discussion we will have with them. One way or another, we will cater for it. It is an interest free loan, it is free capital for the club and I think it should stay on that basis.”
====================
I love the idea that King presents Ashley’s £5mil loan as interest free capital. Well there is no stated interest rate – although PMG asserts there is interest payable in default – BUT the interest Ashley earns (and King pays) for the duration of the loan is 25% of profits from Rangers Retail. Not my idea of free capital. Why would you say that – unless you want to justify not paying it back – because you can’t pay it back – but want to obscure the fact from your ST buyers – who might think twice about shelling out £312 if they know King is borassic – and can’t even pony up a measly £5mil. There are just too many holes in what King says for him to be playing with a straight bat. Or is he being duped again ?
It has previously been suggested by a few of our esteemed SFM colleagues that Dave King may be delusional.
The Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary defines the condition thus:
– a false belief or opinion about yourself or your situation;
– the act of believing or making yourself believe something that is not true
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/learner/delusion
I’m not qualified to judge whether or not DK’s press conference or his scripted interview with Traynor provide sufficient evidence that he satisfies either of the above criteria. I do believe, however, that both appearances clearly provide evidence that every statement he made, and every question he answered (or dodged) requires one fundamental element.
TRUST
David Cunningham King, the man now universally referred to by the sobriquet bestowed on him by a South African Judge expects people to plough money in, purely on trust?
King may not be delusional, but anyone who buys this turkey clearly is!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeEbX-nj3e8&app=desktop
http://www.iol.co.za/business/news/tax-court-labels-king-shameless-glib-liar-1.1027561#.VXbSzkYYFuI
bobferris says:
Member: (24 comments)
June 8, 2015 at 4:38 pm
Hamilton Accies are not allowed debit card facilities yet, after the mismanagement of the Watson/Stepek years, so how on earth are the newest club allowed this?
_______________________________________________
Because some provider is daft enough to provide the service on the promise of 500million transactions worldwide.
As for “overinvestment” – surely by definition overinvestment is a bad thing?
If you invest whatever it takes to a level you can afford and it leads to success, then that is just investment.
If you invest whatever it takes based on piling up debt you can’t afford leading to crisis after disaster, that would be overinvestment.
cavansam says:
Member: (28 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 1:23 pm
Did anyone see this news, great to see the terraces return (all be it safer then the terraces of old):
====================================
Excellent news, not just for Celtic’s support, but for those of other clubs. Now that the luddite finger has finally been pulled from the dyke, we should see safe standing introduced at all suitable top tier grounds (and in the Championship) within the next few years (edited).
Hopefully, we will have the same down south before too long, as I know that there is big support for it amongst a large number of fans in the NR1 area, and the ground is eminently suitable for conversion in at least two sections.
Smugas says:
Member: (825 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 1:10 pm
Sorry and I know that there is no need to go over old ground here of all places. I just wanted to re-emphasise a point once more.
It would appear that King’s only meaningful investment to the new club (since the shares previously purchased were to the benefit of the seller) is going to be his BDO payout from oldco. Just to highlight that (if it is approved which I still don’t think is cut and dried) and whenever it actually pays out there are those trying to link it to his original 20m investment in (I think) Murray Sports. That is wrong. That money went down SDM’s ego-drain. Full stop. Period. After that event a wee Glasgow no-mark turned up and paid off oldco’s debt for them. Lloyds didn’t just disappear. They were paid off on RFCold’s behalf. A minor infraction regarding that payment that is subject to current court proceedings was considered serious enough that one participants insurers put £24m of new money into the pile. (the flip side is that the no-mark has a £24m debit currently against his good name). It is King’s share of these funds that he increasingly seems to be relying on.
———————————————————————-
Smugas or anyone else:
On what basis does Dave King have a claim against the BDO pot for creditors?
I could never understand how his £20 million investment through Murray Group could result in such a claim, but I’m equally confused as to any other claim he may have as a creditor listed by BDO. Can somebody fill the blanks in please?
Bayview Gold says:
June 8, 2015 at 8:49 pm
DK 2012:
King also asserts that “it is clear from the CVA proposal that Mr Green intends to repeat Mr Whyte’s strategy of using season ticket sales to fund the club.”
_______________________________________________________
Is that not just what normal clubs do??
OK, normal clubs have other income streams but season tickets and walk up attendances are the bedrock for any club outwith the Premiership silly TV money league
easyJambo says:
June 8, 2015 at 10:09 pm
Looking for 6 or 7 new players for the new season to replace the 11 who left at the end of their contracts.
No fixed budget for the new manager.
Will accelerate spending on players if potential signing deemed worthwhile.
_____________________________________________________
Is it just me or does this “accelerated” spending not sound awfully reminiscent of Craig Whyte’s promise of “front-loading”?
i.e. Verbal sophistry to give the misleading impression of big spending whilst retaining plausible deniability
Allyjambo says:
Member: (1003 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 12:44 pm
The Cat NR1 says:
Member: (440 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 12:18 pm
Having enough premium seats/STs available to make up the ‘quantum’ gap is one thing, having enough bears with the wherewithall to fill them is another matter altogether! What’s more, in the Murray days of hubris, the ‘prawn sandwich brigade’ of wealthy businessmen would be only too happy to fill those seats; is the kudos there now in a second year of matches against Dumbarton, Livingston etc?
=========================
Agreed AJ, but not being an RRM myself I have no idea whether having another RRM in nominal charge of the RIFC PLC group would influence that ST purchasing decision.
I doubt it, as do you, but DK must be thinking (delusion again?) that he can hook enough of them with the prospect of the Chick Young Schizophrenia derby etc. Maybe not. :irony:
wottpi says:
Member: (638 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 9:42 am
I know its the DR but the highbrow outlets are not much better.
___________________________________________________
When it comes to Scottish football there is no highbrow
MoreCelticParanoia says:
Member: (82 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 2:09 pm
easyJambo says:
June 8, 2015 at 10:09 pm
Looking for 6 or 7 new players for the new season to replace the 11 who left at the end of their contracts.
No fixed budget for the new manager.
Will accelerate spending on players if potential signing deemed worthwhile.
_____________________________________________________
Is it just me or does this “accelerated” spending not sound awfully reminiscent of Craig Whyte’s promise of “front-loading”?
i.e. Verbal sophistry to give the misleading impression of big spending whilst retaining plausible deniability
=============================================
Good spot.
Perhaps we should set up SFM bingo list, and every time a euphimism for spending beyond ones means is used by someone connected to the Blue Room, it gets ticked off, and the spotter scores points depending on how tortuous the languistic gymnastics or how high ranking the perpetrator? 😛
test
I note over on the Bears den there is rguments about whether or not the 3 Bears have provided £1.5m or £3m along with the announced £1.5m investment by King.
If I recall correctly, like other such loans and emergency financing before them, these monies have been used simply to keep the lights on.
If they are investments then should we not all be calling up our gas and electricity suppliers to ask when we are getting a return for our investments?
mcfc says:
Member: (1346 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 1:21 pm
They’re Messing With Our Minds
If there’s one thing I know it is that Neil Patey has yet to get a prediction right when it comes to The Rangers. In fact, his usual smiley, happy people stance makes Clare Balding look terminally glum.
But, when I read his latest piece, it sounds like 24 carat logic compared to King’s Invest, Invest, Invest strategy.
Common sense and experience tells me Patey is 100% wrong, agenda driven and hopelessly optimistic for his team, but then that would make King’s position totally away with the fairies – and he’s the Chairman. And that would mean someone is much wronger than Patey – which is surreal and disturbing and confusing and ….
http://www.teamtalk.com/rangers/9879557/-
==============================
Will the real Neil Patey please report to the front desk immediately.
That makes far too much sense, and it doesn’t have the usual Hollywood happy ending with a giant warchest at the end of the rainbow. Perhaps Neil has grown weary of that eternal child-like optimism not comimg to pass and he has now gone to the teenage angst and depression stage.
Either that or he’s had enough of The Cat’s light hearted pi**taking over the last few days (an unlikely, but remote possibility) or he’s been the victim of an “Invasion of the Bodysnatchers” takeover (I’m not sure of the odds of that option).
More likely though, is that he’s commenting on the facts as presented at last, rather than the previous policy of providing the answer to the question that he would have liked to have seen instead of actually addressing the situation at hand.
How Much is Too Much
So King seems to have a tenuous grip of the maximum possible ST revenue. Does he have any grip on the cost of Premiership players prepared to take a career hiatus for the next three year journey? Presumably any such player would need true blue blood and an agent with true blue blood too,to make that sacrifice and not to take advantage of King’s naivety and time pressure. But, any shark-blooded agent hearing “whatever it takes” will detect the electro-magnetic signature of a flapping, injured, easy meal from an ocean away.
Why would a Premiership player not want to play in the Premiership – or a similar level outside Scotland – rather than risk the Stigma of Zuckic? Well Rangersitis or money or money or more money.
Unlike HMRC, BDO etc this episode will be resolved in a very finite time period. If King fails in the eyes of the bears, will they turn on him – but too late because they’ve already got their STs. My advice to bears is – keep your money in your pocket – there will be plenty of STs left when the transfer window closes and you know what you’re buying. Then, maybe paying at the gate for selected matches will be smarter than the average bear.
RFC 2012 PLC (formerly The Rangers Football Club PLC) was placed into Liquidation on 31 October 2012. The BDO site states that the Joint Liquidators’ statutory reports to all known creditors will be published on the site within six weeks of each six-month anniversary of the date of Liquidation.
I make that only two days to go….any fireworks to possibly ignite at Friday’s EGM? Will DK’s £20M claim still be part of the list of creditors?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
The Cat NR1
Is it not more likely that Neil is still working for Jack Irvine hence the change in tone….
The Cat NR1 says:
Member: (445 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 3:14 pm
Will the real Neil Patey please report to the front desk immediately.
========================================
Maybe Patey has been slighted by King and/or Level 5 and his revenge is talking something mistakable for common sense. At Ibrox, common sense is a dish best served cold.
Patey has spoken! Well I remain completely underwhelmed by his “football financial expert” opinion and subsequently Ernst & Young where he is a partner FFS. I read through it again in the manner of listening to, say, a project accountant as I have done in the real world many times. I quote.
“Patey said: “The longer they stay down, the bigger and more entrenched that financial gap with Celtic becomes. How long will it take them to get back competing with Celtic? It’s difficult to put a figure on it but I would say it is at least five years. The longer you stay in the Championship the bigger that gap becomes to bridge.”
Patey, a partner with Ernst & Young, added: “Long term it’s not a sustainable model for a club to spend more than it is making. What Rangers can do in the short-term is invest in the hope that they will get promoted and get a return with Premiership money and then ultimately access to European football.
“But that relies on the fact they get promoted because you can only make losses for so long. So it’s a gamble. We see this a lot down south – clubs investing up front but then failing to win promotion while continuing to make losses.
“In extreme cases some clubs can end up in administration if they don’t have a wealthy backer prepared to fund those loses. So as a short-term plan, what Dave King is suggesting can work – as long as they get promoted.
“If they didn’t, it would be a serious setback. One additional season in the Championship is not great, another raises long-term questions about whether they can get out of the division, which would be a bit of a disaster really.
“The question for Dave King and the other Rangers backers is how long are they going to keep putting money in before seeing the club return to profit?
“A lot has been said about the wealth of Dave King. Can he continue to support it beyond one-year losses? I suspect he can but as yet, we have not seen a significant amount of money going into the club since Dave King took over.”
Unquote.
Really? So….They will fall further behind if they don’t make money and losing money is not sustainable in the long term so they are gambling on making money sooner rather than later. They might be ok if the King has enough money to see them through the times they aren’t making money but we don’t know if he has enough money. We suspect he has…. is his expert analysis. Thanks for your input and can we have some financial opinion the next time please? Oh, and don’t dare send us a fee invoice for that one.
MoreCelticParanoia says:
Member: (83 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 1:48 pm
…
As for “overinvestment” – surely by definition overinvestment is a bad thing?
If you invest whatever it takes to a level you can afford and it leads to success, then that is just investment.
If you invest whatever it takes based on piling up debt you can’t afford leading to crisis after disaster, that would be overinvestment
====================================================
[Apologies if mentioned before.]
Agreed, and this term ‘over investment’ is a new one for me.
We’ve heard of e.g. ‘over trading’, and under investment.
Under investment can be relatively obvious to everyone – like the degrading stadium roof at Ibrox.
However, I did find a definition for overinvestment;
“A situation in which the management of a publicly-traded company invests in too many projects, especially when the projects do not benefit shareholders. Overinvestment may be a violation of the management’s fiduciary responsibility to shareholders, especially when the managers benefit from the arrangement and investors do not.”
I would call that simply poor capital rationing, but either way, in the strictest sense, overinvestment is definitely not a good thing !
It sounds like a ‘positive PR soundbite’ which King has been given to placate the bears. But in TRFC’s case it is a meaningless, unquantifiable, unmeasureable piece of p!sh…IMO.
But it does indicate that continued loss-making is the preferred business strategy. 🙄
JoeJordansHand says:
June 9, 2015 at 12:24 pm
Meanwhile, in the land of Moonbeams, Sugar Daddies and Not Facing Up To Reality (Bears Den)…
…We need people to spend not invest. Ifs (sic) hard to find. Finding someone like Abramovich at Chelsea or Ashley at Newcastle who are happy to put money in knowing they won’t get it back is hard to find.
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If only they could have got Ashely to get involved, think how happy they could be now. Oh wait…
If King stated that Rangers (sic) branded chocolate at £10 a bar makes you thin – would the MSM print it verbatim as fact and stock up or would they question it as a bit dodgy?
Rangers bingo,mInvest does not mean, as it does to the rest of us, something like put money into a project with the expectation of returns either in the form of income or capital growth. The Droogs of the hierarchy mean to spend money with no hope of any return whatsoever. Not only that, one of the qualifications for being a true RRM is to anathemise anyone seeking returns on investment. The simple fact is that this is a business negative long term negative cash flow equals no promised land.
DCK on when Rangers were much richer than Celtic is a microcosm of the whole road to iniquity he still is traveling.
Redlichtie
Only 2 days to go for the joint liquidators report to be published,under the rules,what would be the hold up taking a report to the wire that should have been out at the latest a few weeks ago,coincidentally in the week of the Gazebo meeting,something not just right here me thinks.
I wonder how ISDX regard “no budget” and “whatever it takes” and “over investing” and ST sums that don’t add up and “sustainable in three years” meaning no longer loss-making which is not quite the same thing and lack of clarity about terms of a shareholder loan and a major shareholder calling an EGM asking questions suggesting the board did not act in the interest of all shareholders over the Nomad/AIM listing – oh – and those interesting S African quotes concerning the Chairman in L&L’s RNS statement. They can’t help but be impressed.
cavansam says:
Member: (29 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 3:54 pm
The Cat NR1
Is it not more likely that Neil is still working for Jack Irvine hence the change in tone….
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Yes.
The obvious answer is more often than not the right one (unless it’s a trick question or Q.I.).
Spoil sport! 😀
yourhavingalaugh says:
Member: (291 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 4:32 pm
Redlichtie
Only 2 days to go for the joint liquidators report to be published,under the rules,what would be the hold up taking a report to the wire that should have been out at the latest a few weeks ago,coincidentally in the week of the Gazebo meeting,something not just right here me thinks.
——————————————————-
Oh ye of little faith! 👿
Here’s the past publication dates. None going quite to the wire like this one.
13 November 2014
30 May 2014
15 November 2013
22 May 2013
I estimate the deadlines for publication to be 11 June and 12 December.
As you say, something not right here.
Scottish Football needs a strong new SFA President. Will Allan McRae do a better job than S**p Ogilvie?
mcfc says:
Member: (1350 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 4:18 pm
If King stated that Rangers (sic) branded chocolate at £10 a bar makes you thin – would the MSM print it verbatim as fact and stock up or would they question it as a bit dodgy?
==============================
If they said it about lamb dinners, it would be front page, back page, centre spread and a special colour (mostly blue) pull-out section.
As long as they kept getting the free samples, or at least a promise of further samples when sales were back up to their rightful place at the top of the food sales league, it would be repeated ad nauseum.
In the absence of a scouting infrastructure, will wee Stevie in iT be selecting Premiership-level players from far and wide based on YouTube clips? I’ve always found that to be a very reliable way to buy good players and Thai brides and weight-loss miracle pills and penis extensions.
If DCK had opened his presser saying a 20% ST hike was needed, but fear not bears, £15m will be landing in the bank account as we speak, I suggest he would be very close to his ST sales target come the last Friday of the month, or possibly sooner.
He may even have enticed some of the walk-away potential managers back into the fold, and a signature on dotted lines today.
It kind of begs the question, “Why didn’t he?”
Steering away from all things Rangers
“Ex-Cove Rangers chair Alan McRae appointed SFA president”
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/ex-cove-rangers-chair-alan-mcrae-appointed-sfa-president-1-3796985
Discuss…..
From today’s SFA AGM news I note that there is to be a Reformatting of Council to become a fully representative Congress, including membership from PFA Scotland, Coaches and Managers Association, Scottish Senior Football Referees’ Association and Supporters’ Groups.
Anyone know who the Supporters’ Groups are?
Clumps,
A thumbs up just for that first picture of Neil Patey. Hilarious. 😆
StevieBC says:
Member: (712 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 4:09 pm
MoreCelticParanoia says:
Member: (83 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 1:48 pm
… However, I did find a definition for overinvestment;
“A situation in which the management of a publicly-traded company invests in too many projects, especially when the projects do not benefit shareholders….
________________________________________________________
phew… That’s them in the clear on that score then.
Not publicly traded, these days, are they! …
(unless a whole lot of buyers have suddenly subscribed to that share exchange they set up!?)
On the new manager being announced by the end of next week according to DK (the 19th?), I notice ‘bookies favourite’ Mark Warburton will be away in the Czech Republic as part of a FA UEFA Pro Licence coaching course until the 24th and says any discussions about his future will take place after that, so that may well rule him out.
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/former-brentford-manager-mark-warburton-to-travel-to-european-under21-championship-as-he-ponders-next-move-10297700.html
Press Release from the SFA regarding their 2015 AGM.
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=14902&newsCategoryID=1.
I saw King quoted today as saying ‘when Rangers were Scotland’s richest club by a mile’. I didn’t realise an unrealistic overdraft level from an overly friendly bank actually made them rich in the truest sense of the word. Neither did the laughable valuation figure on Ibrox. However, it allows him to act all superior and it allows the media to feel all superior. Pathetic!
Phil’s comments on the Kings Speech.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-man-who-would-be-sevco/#more-6427
Excuse my ignorance, but I just read an interesting article in the ET about Rangers playing in the European Cup Winners Cup final in 1967 – just days after Celtic had won in Lisbon.
Didn’t know that, and that was an incredible feat for Scotland.
And it also makes you wonder how far the Scottish game has declined since…without any help from the SFA of course…
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/rangerscomment/rangers-in-europe-drama-and-controversy-on-road-to-1967-european-cup-209593n.128404954
readcelt says:
Member: (28 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 5:13 pm
=================
Apologies for two posts in one day from ernie but on Alan McRae. When I was playing fitba (long time ago!) Cove were amateurs and whizzed from there via the Juniors to the Highland League. I also had the pleasure of being “in” the lower reaches of Aberdeenshire Junior fitba and McRae’s reputation was that he was totally focussed on Cove to the point of p**ssing off a few blazers and a man not to be messed with. Since then he has become a full time blazer and why not? I doubt he will be radical but I also believe he will be determined to do the right thing for all of the clubs. Cove Rangers, and at one time that was basically him, have a long time ambition to be in the SPFL. They have won the Highland recently and I believe still have that ambition although ground constraints may be a problem. There are moves afoot, at one time in conjunction with dear Stewarty Milne and AFC, to sort out the ground and, IIRC, there is a plan in hand. It will be interesting to see how he might lead the SFA (his role, unlike compromised CO) along the next armageddonnnesque event from a “big” club given that he will definitely be empathetic of those further down the pyramid. I’m pleased but what do I know?
sannoffymesssoitizz says:
Member: (92 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 5:26 pm
Press Release from the SFA regarding their 2015 AGM.
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=14902&newsCategoryID=1.
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“…The increased turnover and payments to clubs are a reflection of the many highlights of a successful 2014 for the Scottish FA Group…”
Looks like the diddies at Hampden are also benefiting from this prolonged ‘Armageddon’ ! 🙄
Given the complete and utter guff spouted by Dave King at yesterday’s press conference I’m surprised the Rangers fans weren’t in open revolt this morning.
Three contradictory things stood out for me:
1. The broad financial projections are nebulous, non-committal and, at least according to my fag packet calculations, way below what will be required to put Rangers back on an even keel, never mind assail the Premier League in 2016/17.
2. Despite this any notion of financial sustainability was expressly dismissed by the Chairman – “over-investment” is to be the order of the day.
3. This contradiction, which was the crux of oldco’s demise and which now decimates the newco, appears to completely escape the press corps who, as ever, fail to ask any penetrating questions of those in the blue room.
So, there’s no money and there is also an avowed dismissal of fiscal responsibility. Quite a combination, really.
If I was a Rangers supporter I would be more worried now than at any time since 2012.
StevieBC
Kilmarnock reached the semi-final of the Fairs Cup (previous version of UEFA Cup) in season 66-67 as well. And the national team comfortably beat World Champions England at Wembley. An astonishing season.
StevieBC says: Member: (714 comments) June 9, 2015 at 5:38 pm
Stevie,
I’m looking forward to seeing the itemised details of the SFA’s Turnover in their published accounts to 31 December 2014. However, I doubt if any of the increase arose as a direct result of their “management” :irony: of Scottish football.
The lack of a scouting system and manager has meant TRFC has missed out on an experienced free transfer striker.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30983549
Well, maybe not. Could open up a new market for shirt sales!
Scottish Football needs a strong Mike Ashley.
StevieBC says:
Member: (714 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 5:33 pm
Excuse my ignorance, but I just read an interesting article in the ET about Rangers playing in the European Cup Winners Cup final in 1967 – just days after Celtic had won in Lisbon.
Didn’t know that, and that was an incredible feat for Scotland.
=================================
By all accounts and purposes Rangers were very unfortunate in that particular ECWC final. As Bryce Curdy has pointed out, Kilmarnock reached the semi final of the Fairs Cities Cup the same season. Heady days indeed.
If I were a rangers supporter now,I’d be more worried that I am more worried now than when my team died! 😳
Why Be Dull?
King has definitely lit a very short fuse and shows little sign of vacating the danger zone. In a few short weeks it will be abundantly clear whether he has the necessary to continue his football fantasy – in terms of ST sales, new manager and new players. As risk taking goes, it’s definitely on the wrong side of wing-suiting off the Matterhorn for most business people’s tastes. It’s hard to believe he has set himself up for the monumental public pratfall his latest pronouncements suggest – but harder still to believe there is a hat big enough to pull out the size of rabbit he needs to continue. I’m sure he’s aware how Craig Whyte’s football fantasy ended – so he can’t say he didn’t understand the risks to his RRM credentials.
With my conspiracy hat on – King’s last escape tunnel is the EGM, where he may be able to contrive to stand aside as chairman for the good of the club to avoid conflict with Ashley – or allow the ISDX listing – or whatever – which of course is why he hasn’t been able to invest himself – then recommend that the three bears work with Ashley, with King assisting from the side lines in some advisory life president role – a smaller pratfall – and a very, very unlikely one for someone of his ego IMO – but if it happens he should expect no warm words of support from the people – he’ll just be another shyster Messiah.
Bryce Curdy says:
Member: (111 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 6:02 pm
StevieBC
Kilmarnock reached the semi-final of the Fairs Cup (previous version of UEFA Cup) in season 66-67 as well. And the national team comfortably beat World Champions England at Wembley. An astonishing season.
I was looking up some SC final stuff in the 60’s and 70’s and was struck by the almost total lack of non- Scottish players in all the teams who got there .
Season 66-67 Clyde third in the league and were denied European football because of Fairs Cities Cup rules.
The streets of Croy were very quiet during both European finals thy year but the hopes and expectations were opposite each other for the Celtic and Bayern Munich games ( I think it was them )
Don’t Come the Messiah with me Sonny Jim!
If you’re not familiar with the words of Kirsty MacColl’s brilliant “Don’t Come The Cowboy With Me Sonny Jim!” they read like the lament of the long suffering reasonable bear faced with another Messiah – as much as the world weary girl looking for love.
http://www.metrolyrics.com/dont-come-the-cowboy-with-me-sonny-jim-lyrics-maccoll-kirsty.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-5yQcRh5R0
Has any of the SMSM asked Kieran Prior, a man with a great IQ what he thinks of king’s plans?
Go on KJ you know you want to.Kieran may even be up for the EGM, So you don’t have to travel to get that exclusive.
Just checking my avatar. OOps – wrong way roond.
Oh well…..
readcelt says:
Member: (28 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 5:13 pm
Steering away from all things Rangers
“Ex-Cove Rangers chair Alan McRae appointed SFA president”
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/ex-cove-rangers-chair-alan-mcrae-appointed-sfa-president-1-3796985
Discuss…..
6 1 Rate This
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Well from what I have observed the new SFA President has not been welcomed by a deafening fanfare in the MSM. Not even welcomed at all by some outlets.
This gives me some hope that he is not the the man they want in power and ergo, might be just what we need.
Next up, fingers crossed its time for Reagan to move on and a decent replacement can be hired.
And perhaps Petrie moving on would help freshen things up too…..
sannoffymesssoitizz says:
Member: (93 comments)
June 9, 2015 at 6:19 pm
StevieBC says: Member: (714 comments) June 9, 2015 at 5:38 pm
Stevie,
I’m looking forward to seeing the itemised details of the SFA’s Turnover in their published accounts to 31 December 2014. However, I doubt if any of the increase arose as a direct result of their “management” :irony: of Scottish football.
===========================================================
Entirely I would expect down to the TA paying exorbitant ticket prices for the last 3/4 games. Certainly spent plenty for the Ireland one personally and the ticket management was a nightmare from SFA. Fine once you got to the ground but Celtic needn’t have had to set up the collection system at all. Shambles of an organisation.
“What i’m saying to the fans is this” king in today’s papers.
IS THIS NOT HOW CHARLES USE TO START STATEMENTS TO THE PRESS.
“What i’m saying to the fans is this”…..But in a yorkshire accent.
Maybe some clever chaps can find charles stating this and link the two together 😎
Perhaps if DCK is looking for MA to help it might be done already given John Carver was sacked today (and Stone) so maybe 5 go back to geordie land and 2 come up to Ibrokes?
Given DCK comedy of late I would think Carver’s antics at the end of last season and claiming he was the best manager in the premiership would make him a shoe in for the sevco job? 🙄
TheClumpany says:
June 9, 2015 at 4:58 pm
——————————————————
“Moonbeam manifesto” – a fine turn of phrase, le mot juste, nail on the head, and so forth and so on.
A request for SFM please. Can we have a Groundhog emoji to go with the :slamb: and Mr
It’s just that this all feels so very, very familiar. DCK’s pronouncements of yesterday and todays MSM coverage have been torn apart by SFM posters more eloquent than I and by other bloggers (Clumps and PMG).
We are just going round in circles. Moonbeams from the Blue Room lapped up by journalists (I use the term loosely) who seem to have had a collective lobotomy and treat their readers with utter contempt.
How long can this carry on. Surely someone or something has to bring this to a head? The EGM?
Instead of setting out a costed plan to sort out the mess that is TRIFC/TRFC we were treated to DCK’s philosophical musings on “when is a loan not a loan”.
TRFC is running on vapours and the people in charge pump out bilge that just goes unchallenged. When will the spell be broken?
Unless DCK has a giant rabbit to pull out a hat then he must be steering his ship onto the rocks. If even I can this then why can’t the MSM?
“The Scotsman” was not in at 7.30 this morning when I walked down to get it, fine morning that it was.I bought “The Herald” instead.
And I read Matthew Lindsay’s piece.
It’s not by any means at the lowest level of the SMSM reportage of the saga, but I was irked enough at one bit to fire off the following email to Mr Lindsay.
“Dear Mr Lindsay,
I refer to your piece in today’s “The Herald”.
I’d just like to remind you, Mr Lindsay, that Rangers , or that ‘Glasgow institution’ as you call it, was not ‘placed into the Third Division back in 2012’.
It could not have been since it did not exist as a legal entity, except in the state of Liquidation.
I think you may have been thinking of the new football club set up by Mr Charles Green, originally named Sevco 5088, then Sevco Scotland, Rangers 2012, The Rangers Football Club/ RIFC plc, and now back to plain RIFC Ltd.
This club, new as it was, had to Apply for membership of a League, and membership of the SFA on foot of league membership.
Only the then SFL would admit it to membership, and then only into the Third ( or lowest) Division of that league.
Please try to stick to well-established truths when writing about Scottish Football, and not compromise yourself as a journalist.
We have enough perverters of truth and integrity on the Boards of our Football Authorities as it is!
Yours in Sporting Integrity,
John Clark
StevieBC says:
June 9, 2015 at 5:33 pm
Yes those were halcyon days for our sport.
Glasgow was close to holding both major European trophies at the same time. I still do not think the feat has been achieved yet. Liverpool came close in 1986 when Everton won the Cup Winners Cup but Liverpool lost the Euro Cup final in a tragic night in Belgium.
The strange thing was that both European finals were played after Scotland had beaten England at Wembley where Celtic and Rangers players were heavily involved.