I think there has been an appreciable shift of opinion amongst fans of TRFC recently.
Unlike the ‘invest: speculate to accumulate’ rhetoric featured in the press and by ex-players, the ordinary fans are coming to the realisation that there is no quick fix. There are even murmurings that there may never be a fix which involves their club becoming a competitive force.
Poor management of fan expectations has long been an accusation levelled at the TRFC board by SFM. It is possible though that many fans are beginning to manage their own expectations rather better. There are certainly justifiable criticisms of the manager, Mark Warburton, but alongside that is a realism about the limitations and constraints that he is working under.
There is a rather misguided, and possibly not accurate assumption that another liquidation for a team out of Ibrox would result in having to start ‘yet again’ in the bottom division; but in fact there is a growing acceptance that consolidation in the top league is a much better solution than gambling on huge borrowing simply to stop Celtic adding more notches to the goalpost.
Could it be that the fans are about to do the job that the board haven’t had the balls to do –accept the gap between themselves and (at least) Celtic, and settle for mediocrity on the field as a short term price to pay for continuity?
During the 1990s, in the middle of the Murray/BoS fuelled spending spree, and with Celtic in the doldrums, it seemed to many Celtic fans that their club would never be able to bridge that gap. Of course they did, but at the emotional cost of losing the exclusive 9IAR record.
TRFC now find themselves in pretty much the same position, but their road to bridging the current gap is a more difficult one.
There are similarities of course. Like the Celtic of the 90s, Rangers have major infrastructure challenges to meet. Celtic had a stadium to build, Rangers have Ibrox (and Auchenhowie) to fix and improve. Both required massive investment to improve the team, although I would argue that Rangers have a steeper hill to climb in that area.
Unlike RFC of the 90s, Celtic’s accrued wealth has nothing to do with an intravenous hook-up between their bank account and the chairman’s pals at the bank. Their baseline advantage over the current Rangers predicament is a combination of a stadium which holds 10,000 more fans than Ibrox, no debt, a burgeoning cash balance and the current inflow of European cash.
The Euro cash and the cash balance could be depleted, but the 10,000 extra seats won’t.
It also seems difficult to imagine how TRFC can obtain seed capital – even if they were inclined to gamble – given the combination of barriers to achieving that;
- They have a PLC with no stock market listing
- They have NO executive directors on the PLC board
- The current chairman is a convicted criminal, convicted of offences involving money
- The current chairman and vice-chairman are both directors of a previously liquidated club, and therefore associated with the financial mismanagement which brought that about.
- In that climate, sponsorship deals are hard to come by. Major sponsors want to be associated with stability, success and integrity. TRFC don’t tick many boxes in that regard.
- Banks do not lend to football clubs. Pre Murray/Masterton, football clubs were cash businesses with modest overdraft facilities to cover modest cash-flow peaks and troughs. The banks have returned to that model. 1987-2007 was the exception, not the norm.
- They are at war with a powerful and substantial shareholder in Mike Ashley.
- There is still litigation pending on more than one front which could even call into question the ownership of the club’s assets.
- They are in debt already (estimated at around £15m).
- The current onfield situation may require yet another write-off in terms of contracts.
Any one of those bullet points could be enough to derail any plan to get to the top. In combination, there may even be an existential question to answer.
That is why the fans are starting to look a lot smarter than the board, and ultimately the good sense of the fans may well help the board to find a way out of their current dilemma.
But even with realistic expectations from the supporters, is it possible that they can find a way? Is there for instance someone with a magic wand or bag of cash who could come in and turn it around? Perhaps, but who would risk money on a precarious venture like a football club when one of the most powerful businessmen in the country is in dispute with you?
In order for serious inward investment to happen;
- Ashley has to be reconciled with the board (needs King and Murray to go).
- The debt has to be written off .
- The new investor(s) has to be given control of the club (and this would perhaps require another 75% special resolution where current shareholders would be asked to vote to dilute their own influence).
- If they achieved that (and it is a pretty big if) the new investor cash would go into the club’s bank account – not used to pay off the debt – and they would be free to pursue new and better sponsorship deals, improve the merchandising contract with an onside Ashley, and add new revenue streams.
Even then, any new board would need to see the infrastructure challenges as paramount. Having one eye squinting in the direction of Parkhead will blur the bigger picture.
Their priority should be to reduce the losses (whilst increasing wages for better players), fix the stadium and the training ground (both in need of repair and improvement), build a scouting and youth infrastructure, and free up a (relatively modest) wad of cash to improve the playing squad.
In defence of the current board, the challenges facing them are almost vertical in incline. No matter how skilful they are, nothing other than someone with a barrowload of cash and a very long term outlook can put any kind of fix in place.
£50m might buy the debt and equity, and repair the stadium, but progress requires on-field improvement. It also needs stability, and therefore Ashley’s cooperation. The price of that is the head of Dave King.
Rangers will bring in more at the gate than Aberdeen, Hearts or Hibs, but they have a considerably higher cost base than those clubs. With better players, recurring costs will be even higher – much higher.
To square this circle, however unpalatable it appears to be, peace has to be made with Ashley. That is the key to being able to embark upon a journey that has any chance of success. Otherwise, the clocks will have to be reset to 2022, and the end of the SD contract, before progress can be made.
However there is no chance it can go on that long. Rangers fans may be increasingly less demanding in what they expect, but they will need to see some signs – and not just words – that a plan is in place.
The board are getting ready to throw Mark Warburton to the hounds (the MSM lapdogs have already been armed with poison pens to effect that). This will buy them some time, but not enough.
We’ve said it before, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I’ll say it again;
For Rangers to have a fighting chance of competing at the top of football, King needs to be gone. If he does go, half of the barriers preventing the club raising cash are dismantled.
So is King’s departure a price worth paying? If he really had Rangers in his heart, he would say ‘Yes’.
Ally and Cluster
Many clung onto such hopes in the past but we have yet so see the courts and others give King and Co a boot in the baws.
I don’t hold out for much change on that front.
The survival of anything otjer tjan a run of the mill T’Rangers still comes down to balancing of their books, the generosity of RRM or the outside chance of being invited to a Euro franchise.
wottpi February 14, 2017 at 20:39
EASYJAMBOFEBRUARY 14, 2017 at 19:30 Put that forward the other day given the ‘ tradition’ of bad financial news on Valentine’s Day. However looking back 802 Ltd tried to get £300k ringfenced in Jan2016 and that was knocked back. While the sum for the Ibrox 3 will be more, you yourself has said the financial position had improved a little since last year. Therefore a judge will need some convincing that the club can’t cough up and ring fencing is warranted.
===========================
Apologies for missing your earlier reference to ring fencing. As I had anticipated, their finances did improve. However, what I didn’t expect was to see a further £3.75m being required to see out the season. They might get a more sympathetic hearing than 802 did.
YETIFEBRUARY 14, 2017 at 21:44 1 Vote
From the website of Aye Write, Glasgow’s Book Festival:
Graham Hunter & Alex McLeish – The Big Interview Live9th Mar 2017 • 6:00PM – 7:30PM • Glasgow Royal Concert HallFormer Rangers, Scotland and Aston Villa manager Alex McLeish in conversation with Graham Hunter.and there will be an audience Q and A.
FIRST QUESTION…
Mr McLeish do you have an eye on next weeks supreme court case?
Slightly off topic for one of my rare posts, happened to tune into Open All Mics on BBC Shortbread on Sat afternoon and lo and behold reporting from Dens Park, none other than one Jim Spence. Is he freelancing and no one else was available or has he taken the tainted shilling of the BBC once more ?
Not been on for absolutely ages, what’s. even happening in Lala land
All this talk of a ring fencing claim by Warburton, Weir, and McParland. If ring fencing means TRCFC can’t get through the season, what becomes the priority for the Judge. Is it the well being of TRFC, or the legally binding terms of peoples contracts? If it were possible to get a bet on this (should it go to court), then I know where my money would be going.
EASYJAMBOFEBRUARY 14, 2017 at 22:04
EJ, somewhat disappointed you didn’t factor in “The Rangers Way” to your calcs. 🙂
They can make all the savings they want but their stated ambitions require more cash than they bring in.
As discussed plenty times before, given the built in running costs of such a large operation, even resolving the retail issues and improving sponsorship just gets them to a standstill position where pay day loans are no longer required.
However to fund the type of players, management team and scouting system needed to safely secure Euro football and then makes progress on the continent needs additional cash. They have no obvious assets to sell and none in the pipeline. Uncovering a Dembele has taken another step backwards in the meantime.
The rewards to be gained from half decent Europa League progression (unless they win it!!!) will not cover the outlay needed to get to that position.
The only way forward is via prudent financial management and long term development of home grown talent, but as we keep seeing those in charge speak with formed tongue and don’t really have a well constructed plan or vision for the new club as they are clouded by the ethos of the old one.
In terms of ring fencing, all the Ibrox Three have to do in court is point out Richard Wilson believes the sof loan tap is incapable of being turned off so there is no reason a couple of million can’t be set aside in an account, just in case!!!!
The reality is of course that it if the issue is not resolved quickly the I3 may wait until they see season ticket renewals starting before making a move to ringfence.
My guess is the first 2000 to 3000 renewals can be ear marked for heading south before it even sees the Ibrox bank account.
I have no seen this article that Christian Wulff wrote this last year about the need for Rangers to reconcile and compromise before Scottish football can ‘move on’.
https://t.co/k5ZoyvoUdR
Do you think all fans can come to some sort of reconciliation? IMO I think fans of Ibrox club will struggle to show any remorse.
wottpiFebruary 15, 2017 at 08:29
I would be surprised if the Ibrox3 do try to have funds ‘ring-fenced’ via the court, because a company/club living on loans clearly has no money to attach in the first place, and any decision by a judge would very likely take that into account and refuse their request. But even if the judge does find cause to serve an arrestment in their favour, it is entirely conceivable that any ‘ring-fencing’ would result in TRFC going into administration, and that would mean the three won’t get very much of their money, anyway, and I doubt they are vindictive enough to get much pleasure from that.
As you suggest, though, they might well be advised to wait until the ST money starts to flow, but, sadly for all concerned, by that time, they may well have company in the queue!
ALLYJAMBOFEBRUARY 15, 2017 at 09:47
The common sense approach is of course that if the business has enough cash to employ both a new coach, a director of football, a scouting system and is starting to plan for next season with a view to most probably signing new players etc there must be money in the bank to settle up with the Ibrox 3 for what they are due.
It can be argued that if they are struggling with money then T’Rangers could easily go the rest of the season with Murty in charge and pay their dues with the monies currently available to them.
The new club’s record of ‘speculate to accumulate’ across all boards has been a failure, therefore why should anyone believe the financial security of the club is certain.
As soon as renewal monies start they have few excuses for not paying off outstanding monies due. Unless as you imply there is already a large queue forming.
Running any business is complicated but you have to feel the Ibrox operation is just continually robbing Peter to pay Paul with the hope of some magical financial escape route being just around the corner.
If the RRM really had access to funds, IMHO, they should be more minded to wrap up as much as they can and start with a clean slate.
What would be very entertaining is if the judge hearing an attempted ring-fence, having decided that such a move pending resolution of the case was potentially to the prejudice of other creditors and existing trading partners of “the Club” and thus turned it down, was then invited by counsel for Warbs etc to force their reinstatement, upon the basis that they were being prejudiced in not being allowed to carry out their side of the contract whilst also acknowledging that there was a medium term danger of being unable to enforce any award subsequently made in their favour.
Would that not be a great way for Warbs etc to seek out the moral high ground, get another few months salary out of the circus, call out the ringmaster, and provide tout le monde with some real entertainment?
Me bad.
Reference to my previous article Reconciliation and Compromise concerning Ibrox club my stance on this would be (if HMRC decision is upheld):
Strip all titles and trophies they won during EBT years and confirm to all that they are a NEW club. My reason for this is simple as that is what would happen to ANY other club in Scotland apart from them. Fact.
I will never let time change my view I am as furious with the approach to this issue as I was 5 years ago for all the reasons we know. Sporting integrity should be upheld at all times. They are not special, they are a club like all others liquidation is what it is. No convincing me otherwise.
WOTTPI
FEBRUARY 15, 2017 at 08:29
The reality is of course that it if the issue is not resolved quickly the I3 may wait until they see season ticket renewals starting before making a move to ringfence.
My guess is the first 2000 to 3000 renewals can be ear marked for heading south before it even sees the Ibrox bank account.
———————————
Aren’t season tickets paid for in a number of instalments (Standing Orders?)
In reality, you’re saying that the first 10k or so (10k supporters x £200 initial payment = £2m) of supporters who renew could see their first tranches going straight in to some form of escrow, leaving the club short of money for the season ahead.
I’ll come back to the intereting ‘ring-fencing’ stuff in a later post, but while it’s fresh in my mind, can I just say that I was re-reading during a rare idle moment earlier today (remember, it’s now 9.00 p.m here where I am) I took the time to look again at the articles that appeared in March and in May last year, and again much more recently, about the virtual non-existence of a regular dope-testing regime in Scottish Football.
I thought I’d try to find out just how much money had been given to the SFA , from the UK public purse, by UKAD ( Uk anti-doping) the armslength body responsible to the UK Minister for Sport, to assist in dope-testing of footballers.The impression I got from what the SFA spokesperson had been saying was that such funding was now going to be cut, and the whole burden of keeping football free-from-dope clean ( I know, I know, it isn’t clean for reasons other than players taking drugs!) would fall on the SFA.
UKAD, of course, like most ordinary Government and quasi-government agencies, provide lots of information.Online.
Sadly, when I click on their financial reports, I simply do not know what I have to do to allow my lap-top to open the files.It’s a foreign language to me.
So, I have resorted to the old-fashioned way of seeking information from afar- by writing a letter : except, of course, that I have written not in pen and ink on paper, but by email.
Here is what I wrote:
‘Dear UKAD,I’ve just been re-reading an article by Alistair Lamont of the BBC (which first appeared in May 2016) and in which the Scottish Football Association (SFA) seemed to suggest that they once received funding from UKAD.
I gather that this funding has now been stopped , leaving the SFA unassisted in the task of ensuring a ‘clean game’ in Scotland, while the FA in England receives some financial support.
Did UKAD ever provide funding to the SFA? And, if so, has that funding now been withdrawn? And if so, is there a good reason for that withdrawal? Is UKAD so happy with the anti-doping measures taken by the SFA that they now consider that providing some funds from the UK public public to assist in the provision of serious anti-doping measures would be supererogatory?
I am really quite interested in this matter, and would be very glad to have your comments and observations.
Yours faithfully,
(me) ‘
There are two aspects, as you can appreciate, to this.
On the one hand, if funding previously provided from UK public funds has been withdrawn, while it continues to be offered to, say, the English FA, I think I want to know why.
And, if funding has not ever been given to the SFA by UKAD, I would still want to know why, but even more I would like to know why the SFA seems to wish to claim ( as I read matters) that their funding has been cut, as an excuse for not having a robust testing regime in place that can test more than 8 feckin players in a year.
I believe already, of course, that the SFA has not been above trying to deceive Scottish Football in an entirely different arena.
Perhaps, my suspicions that they may be telling porkies again to disguise their uselessness as an Administrative sports authority are unfounded.
The reply I get from UKAD will help me decide.
Or, perhaps better, if some of the more polished and practised posters would log in to UKAD’s site and try to see where their money went last year and before in terms of grants to Football authorities……….
maybe http://ukad.org.uk/our-organisation/transparency-data/ will get you to the stuff that I couldn’t open.
valentinesclownFebruary 15, 2017 at 11:06
‘….Reference to my previous article Reconciliation and Compromise concerning Ibrox club my stance on this would be (if HMRC decision is upheld)..’
____________
You are far more generous than I, valentinesclown.
For me, the offence committed was the sporting rules offence of deceiving all of the professional clubs, and the SFA administration, and the SPL administration, committed by arch-deceiver SDM.
Leave aside the matter of tax-evasion, and whether other clubs could have used same tax avoidance devices: the basic fact is that SDM lied to and therefore cheated all the other clubs in the then SPL, with a disgustingly hubristic relish, when he ,as Chairman and majority shareholder, concealed the truth about what his players were being paid.
Like some chiselling, snivelling little guttersnipe of a kind that has become sort of familiar, he basked cynically in the adulation not only of the common folk, but of the succulent-lamb-eaters, knowing all the time that he was living a lie.
A decent human being with any kind of working moral compass would have told the truth to the football authorities about what his players were being paid, and by what means. If he was honestly convinced that his little schemes were legally sound.
The fact that Murray lied proves his guilt as a sports cheat, just as a piss test will prove a dope-taker of a player.
The tax business is relevant only to the blind ex-judge who could not, or would not, see that fact.
In my opinion.
wottpiFebruary 15, 2017 at 10:11
ALLYJAMBOFEBRUARY 15, 2017 at 09:47
The common sense approach is of course that if the business has enough cash to employ both a new coach, a director of football, a scouting system and is starting to plan for next season with a view to most probably signing new players etc there must be money in the bank to settle up with the Ibrox 3 for what they are due.
It can be argued that if they are struggling with money then T’Rangers could easily go the rest of the season with Murty in charge and pay their dues with the monies currently available to them.
The new club’s record of ‘speculate to accumulate’ across all boards has been a failure, therefore why should anyone believe the financial security of the club is certain.
As soon as renewal monies start they have few excuses for not paying off outstanding monies due. Unless as you imply there is already a large queue forming.
Running any business is complicated but you have to feel the Ibrox operation is just continually robbing Peter to pay Paul with the hope of some magical financial escape route being just around the corner.
If the RRM really had access to funds, IMHO, they should be more minded to wrap up as much as they can and start with a clean slate.
_______________________
I’m afraid that’s not the case. Should Warbs and co lodge a successful request to have an arrestment served on TRFC it is only the funds held, at, say, their bank on the day the arrestment is received by the bank that can be arrested, and not any future funds that become available on, or after, the next day. It wouldn’t be the first time that a bank account is emptied just before an arrestment is served, then the money returned to the account a few days later. – or maybe not, having been lodged under the floorboards instead
. In this instance, though, we know there is no (or very little) money in the bank, because TRFC have been surviving on loans, given just in time to meet pay day and settle outstanding bills, for a number of months now, so whoever they appoint as their management team, the costs will be met (they hope) from future new loans, totally unaffected by any arrestment lodged just now, unless it arrives on the day the loans hit the bank account with the salaries as yet unpaid! Because of this, there might come a time when the players and staff of TRFC find their wages are paid in cash, or by cheque drawn on an account belonging to someone other than TRFC. That has long been a sign that the employee’s job was not as secure as he once thought!
TRFC will only be damaged by an arrestment if they have money on which an arrestment can be served and are then unable to secure a loan to pay whatever that money was set aside to pay. It wouldn’t even be an awkward moment for them, as it is common knowledge that they are currently surviving on monthly directors’ loans. Basically, if an arrestment was served on TRFC, it would only confirm that TRFC are in as bad a position as we all believe!
Warbs has spoken!
From the BBC website:
‘Mark Warburton says Rangers have yet to supply him with an explanation for announcing his resignation.
On Friday, the club said they had accepted the resignations of the manager, assistant David Weir and head of recruitment, Frank McParland.
However, Warburton insists this is not the case.
A statement released on his behalf says Rangers have not responded to “key questions” put to them by the League Managers Association (LMA).
“We would like to formally place on record, that at no stage did we resign from our positions at Rangers,” said Warburton.
More to follow.’
Abuse of children in Scottish Football – SFA cover it up.
Withdrawal of funding for anti-doping testing – SFA take the huff and cease all testing
Club goes bust owing tens of millions of pounds to 273 creditors, (mainly HMRC) – SFA bend, break, ignore and introduce new rules to help facilitate the LIE that the club survived.
Going by recent events down south re. Government assessment of FA as unfit for purpose, are we to believe our own Scottish Government deem the above behaviour as FIT FOR PURPOSE????
The lack of statement and inaction is astounding but unsurprising, after all we know the First Ministers “patch” might be sensitive to such an investigation.
Scotland the home of systematic corruption.
JOHN CLARKFEBRUARY 15, 2017 at 11:43 Rate This
I’ll come back to the intereting ‘ring-fencing’ stuff in a later post, but while it’s fresh in my mind, can I just say that I was re-reading during a rare idle moment earlier today (remember, it’s now 9.00 p.m here where I am) I took the time to look again at the articles that appeared in March and in May last year, and again much more recently, about the virtual non-existence of a regular dope-testing regime in Scottish Football.
The reply I get from UKAD will help me decide.Or, perhaps better, if some of the more polished and practised posters would log in to UKAD’s site and try to see where their money went last year and before in terms of grants to Football authorities……….maybe http://ukad.org.uk/our-organisation/transparency-data/ will get you to the stuff that I couldn’t open.
JC
Some of the docs on the site seem to have been corrupted and do not open in PDF format, the file I attached does open but relates to funding for 2011 and is pretty sparse with details, I will go through the rest of them and pick out any that are of any relevance to the ongoing discussions on the site, as they are in PDF format I will attach the file and take a screenshot although screenshots can be difficult to read.
Off subject, just heard on the beeb news that Warburton again denies resigning his position at Ibrox and LMA have asked TRFC for their explanation of the circumstances and to date have had no correspondence from the Ibrox club/company. It looks like further court appearances y could be in the pipeline for TRFC.
This appears to be the full statement from Warburton, though I don’t know the source. It is, if nothing else, a lesson to the TRFC PR jokers on how to word a statement that may form evidence in court – or just how to make best use of the English language!
“Much has been said over the last few days relating to our departure from Rangers Football Club. At this stage, for legal reasons, it is inappropriate for us to comment in any great detail on our departure from the club. However, given that the club has seen fit to make detailed public statements, it is important that we should clarify certain matters and as such we would like to formally place on record, that at no stage did we resign from our positions at Rangers.
It is a matter of surprise to us, and to the League Managers Association (LMA), which is advising all three of us, that despite its detailed public statements, the club has not answered key questions put to it by the LMA, in writing, requesting an explanation of why it suggested that we resigned from our positions.
For all three of us, it was an absolute privilege to be given the opportunity to work at a club that is so rich in tradition and history. It was an honour to be given the responsibility of returning the club to the top tier of Scottish football and we are very proud to have played our part in successfully securing promotion back to the Scottish Premiership. Winning the Petrofac Scottish Challenge Cup and beating Celtic, in a memorable semi-final to reach the Scottish Cup Final, are experiences we will never forget.
We sincerely thank the Rangers fans for their unwavering passion and dedication. We had the good fortune to meet so many outstanding individuals and supporters of the club and we will always value their words of encouragement. We wish them great success for the seasons ahead.
The current group of players, together with the staff at the training ground and Ibrox, have borne the huge weight of responsibility of taking a massive club back to the top flight. They should be proud of their togetherness and their work ethic. It has been a pleasure to work with them, and we would like to thank each and every one of them for their commitment and contribution.”
Guys and girls, we can stop getting our panties in a twist. I have just been informed by an informed sevco supporting friend of mine that Graham Souness has been spotted on a white charger heading toward Govan accompanied by a posse of oil rich Egyptians.
Panic over.
John Clark
I am trying to send a file to the site but although it attaches it does not appear to go through, anyhow, if I remember correctly you said you were using a Samsung tab, if you click on the file you are interested in it will download, go to My Files folder and open it, click on recent docs and the file should be there, use open with PDF option and it should open.
Hope that works
ALLYJAMBOFEBRUARY 15, 2017 at 12:13
Take your point, but like all other businesses T’Ranger need cash and money in the bank for day to day needs.
The 2016 accounts had circa £3m in cash/bank. Take from that what you will.
While I believe the whole thing will be sorted behind closed doors a a la Barton, if there was to be a ring fence move by the Ibrox 3 then would require careful timing. They know when the players and staff get paid so surely if an application for arrestment was made then the smart thing to do would be to try and make a move close to pay day.
Nothing like unsettling a team/club more than players not getting their dough 🙂
wottpiFebruary 15, 2017 at 13:30
ALLYJAMBOFEBRUARY 15, 2017 at 12:13
Take your point, but like all other businesses T’Ranger need cash and money in the bank for day to day needs.
The 2016 accounts had circa £3m in cash/bank. Take from that what you will.
While I believe the whole thing will be sorted behind closed doors a a la Barton, if there was to be a ring fence move by the Ibrox 3 then would require careful timing. They know when the players and staff get paid so surely if an application for arrestment was made then the smart thing to do would be to try and make a move close to pay day.
Nothing like unsettling a team/club more than players not getting their dough
_________________________
Still very unlikely, WOTTPI, as the timing of the case would be up to the court, and they aren’t going to time it to suit anyone other than themselves (for the best of reasons). Besides, if TRFC failed to have the request denied, they’d make sure the loans didn’t go into any account covered by the arrestment and pay salaries and bills possibly directly from the lenders accounts! If TRFC do have cash floating around, it is relatively easy (simply withdraw it) to move that money, or not pay in money received until ‘safe’ to do so, and it isn’t illegal.
Look at it this way, if your mate lent you money to pay some bills, but you knew your account was about to be ‘ring-fenced’, would you pay that money into your account, or just go to the people you needed to pay and hand over the cash?
There may come a point, though, in the summer, when sufficient has been collected from ST sales to make it worthwhile applying to the courts for the arrestment. Again, though, as with the wifi guys, the judge would have to be satisfied that there is a genuine case for saying the club will go bust before the trio’s breach of contract case. If, say, some £6m is held, and TRFC can produce a business plan that, on the face of it, is sound, then the arrestment request might be denied. The problem with waiting for the summer is that a bigger claim may already be made on TRFC’s resources!
WOTTPIFEBRUARY 15, 2017 at 13:30
While I believe the whole thing will be sorted behind closed doors a a la Barton, if there was to be a ring fence move by the Ibrox 3 then would require careful timing.
will the League Managers Association (LMA), allow things to be sorted behind closed doors a a la Barton.?
i don’t know how they work if they can do deals behind closed doors or not. Anyway
it looks like it is not going to a tribunal but to the courts.
————–
On another matter…..
FANS: Would you like to be part of the @RangersFC team as a volunteer at the stadium on match days? Read more: rng.rs/2lizoMY
Just how does that work? become a steward and not get paid?
the legalities would be all over the place…injured at work, who pay’s. Assaulted at work.Who pays etc,etc.
——————–
Ps I’m off work today incase anyone is asking
Tumbleweed at the site they still have not resigned from the team.
Bye-bye Lee Clark:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38984096
I suppose he did his best in what were difficult circumstances.
Latest p!sh from DR/Level42 ;
“If Rangers land Frank de Boer they’ll be getting a manager as well connected as Pep Guardiola
Former Gers stopper Bert Konterman reckons his fellow Dutchman has a network of contacts to rival the Manchester City and former Barcelona boss…”
==========================
That’s as realistic for the Ibrox club/company, as me saying;
“If I win the Lottery tonight, I’ll be quite chuffed.”
Do these ex-RFC players get a contribution to their personal, EBT tax-refund fund for every ridiculous TRFC quote, or do they just feel obliged to allow their name to be appended to whatever mince Traynor spews out ?
But fair do’s: they did manage to crowbar in namechecks for Man City, Barca, and Pep into the article’s first 2 sentences.
And it would seem pretty obvious to the average footy fan: it doesn’t matter how good your contacts are if your club has b*gger all money.
But of course, the DR article manages to avoid even mentioning this rather significant TRFC hindrance.
Pat ByrneFebruary 15, 2017 at 12:53
‘..John ClarkI am trying to send a file to the site but although it attaches it does not appear to go through, anyhow, if I remember correctly you said you were using a Samsung tab, if you click on the file you are interested in it will download, go to My Files folder and open it, click on recent docs and the file should be there, use open with PDF option and it should open.Hope that works’
_______
Pat Byrne,
Thank you for going to the bother of helping me. I appreciate it.I’ll follow your instructions and see what results.
the main thing is that some of us should be able to check whether the SFA got any dosh at any time from UKAD. If they did, well and good, and truthful.
If they did not, then why might they be falsely implying that funding has been withdrawn, as some kind of excuse for their lack of any kind of effective, rigorous, anti-doping testing regime?
We do really have to watch these prone-to-telling-porkies like a hawk.
Class from Killie i suppose they could have terminated his contract for having orwellian thoughts ” I still have huge ambition to one day manage at the highest level in England, which is obviously the Premier League.”
Clark, a former midfielder at Newcastle, Fulham and Sunderland, won 10 of his 44 games in charge at Kilmarnock.
“I have had a wonderful year as Kilmarnock manager,” he told the club website. “The club and fans have treated myself and my family fantastically – we are in a good position with a strong and loyal squad and staff.
“The directors have given me their full support in rebuilding the squad and the fans will always have a special place in my heart, but I still have huge ambition to one day manage at the highest level in England, which is obviously the Premier League.
“I feel that the fresh challenge of managing a club in England’s League One could provide me with the platform to build towards this goal.”
If Bampots had any lingering doubts that a Director of Football role might not be entirely suitable for Scottish football, nevermind TRFC:
I give you the following headline as ‘Exhibit A’ from today’s ESJ, [(c) The Clumpany 2015] ;
“Director of Football structure exactly what Rangers need, says Gordon Smith”
I rest my case.
I know it’s a bit of a fallacy, but it’s like the Who’s Who of the EBT’ers returning to the scene of the crime. I would have thought they wouldn’t come near the place. Surely we must be down to the bones ? Is there money in old bones ? Must be !!!
Re the EBTers…
I’ll get all biblical on yo’ ass
Proverbs 26:11 —
As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
Enjoy your respective teas!
Jimso.Jimsie,
I thought I had read the Bible upside down but that qouation (sp) escapes me, thankfully.
Re. the EBT’s, … these guys should be worried, ….. very worried!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34118126
JINGSO.JIMSIEFEBRUARY 15, 2017 at 17:21
“As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly”
And there endeth the lesson !
Wake up everybody. Or I will have to submit one of my boring posts. You have been warned!
OK,
I was just wondering how many court cases are in front of The Rangers. I can think of the Mike Ashley one, the Supreme Court ruling on EBTs, now the Ibrox 3, maybe something to do with Craig Whyte. Have I missed any?
NOrman Bates 12.25
Similar thoughts on need for SFA reform at. Quite a list.
http://etims.net/?p=10877
jimbo February 15, 2017 at 20:32
OK,
I was just wondering how many court cases are in front of The Rangers. I can think of the Mike Ashley one, the Supreme Court ruling on EBTs, now the Ibrox 3, maybe something to do with Craig Whyte. Have I missed any?
=====================
802 Works Ltd v TRFC re the Ibrox Wifi
I will try again, a nice song for all my friends on here.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx6s-YReOJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx6s-YReOJY
Mark McGee took the result well tonight….(strong language viewer discretion)
https://twitter.com/GarryStitchell/status/831985818550026240
Robertson added “we are continually looking at potential managers.
at a club of this size it would be foolish to not be looking at your succession planning as you would in any other business for key positions.
———–
Is Mr Robertson saying the club is always looking for better people to fill key positions? In other words looking for better players and managers?
Yet Mr king ripped MW for suggesting he may one day be looking for a better job in the EPL.
CLUSTER ONEFEBRUARY 15, 2017 at 23:20
That’s one of their problems, the truth makes them look just as dishonest as their lies do!
In truth, we are seeing a classic case of how, once a lie is told, it becomes so very difficult to maintain the narative without tying yourself in knots, even with the aid of a very supportive mainstream media. Of course, the knots will never be pointed out by the media, but the days are long gone since we relied solely on them for ‘the truth’.
Can’t say I am a big fan of Mark McGhee.
I appreciate his time as Aberdeen manager wasn’t exactly a success and that he had reported run-ins with the fans.
However it still seems off that the Aberdeen fans with the phone-cam are going over the score mocking a member of their own 83 CWC team. Even if he is the opposition manager having a bad day.
My guess is the ‘youngsters’ involved think it is smart but it seems they have perhaps forgotten their club’s history.
Does anyone think that would have happened to say Billy McNeil or Bertie Auld when they were the visiting manager at Parkhead?
From my perspective, as a Dons fan, McGhee was without question, an excellent striker for the club.
Unfortunately for him though, the general perception is that he has a level of arrogance and entitlement that you would associate with whichever club plays out of Govan. Ironically, he’s not Govan-minded, but as the lad in the clip says, his behaviour is that of a clown.
And so the panto continues:-
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/professional-cleaning-services-required/
From BBC online
3 TRFC “news” items
Mark Warburton, in a statement made via the League Managers Association, accuses Rangers of failing to answer “key questions” relating to his departure as manager at Ibrox last week. (Herald)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Former Newcastle, West Ham and Crystal Palace manager Alan Pardew insists Rangers are in safe hands with Graeme Murty. Pardew was a rookie manager at Reading in 1998 when he first came across Murty and he reckons the 42-year-old has all the tools to be a success. “Graeme was worth his weight in gold to me, especially as I was relatively new to the management lark. He always made really important contributions on and off the field,” he says. (Sun)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Dundee manager Paul Hartley feels his former Scotland team-mate Murty will be in shock at being caretaker boss of Rangers. Says Hartley: “He is a decent lad who has been thrown in at the deep end. He has had a job where there is not much attention on him and all of a sudden he is the face.” (Sun)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Quite noticeable that the biggest story has the absolute minimum number of words to get the message across
Why the haste to get rid of Warbs, and leave themselves with no back-up plan.
Whatever the version of the truth is, they could have accepted Warb’s & Co’s resignations and held them to work their notice, buying some breathing space.
Instead they opted for a last minute promotion of the U20 coach, a PR disaster, and a dubious position in law. I’m sure Sevco must have enough of a working knowledge of contracts and employment law after recent employee fiascos, to know what could, and couldn’t be done.
With that in mind, they must also be aware that there is every chance they may be made to pay up anyway, albeit further down the line.
If this is the case, why not just continue with the 3 bear’s services until ST income arrives to finance their removal legitimately, causing zero disruption, nothing reported in the SMSM, and time to source a replacement.
I can think of no other reason for this irrational haste, other than if wages were not available for them this month, it would be an even bigger Cluster than it is already.
CORRUPT OFFICIAL
just a “random” thought here,say they know an administration is coming down the line would the management team after being paid out be blamed for this by a callous board to shift blame from themselves.
TONYFEBRUARY 16, 2017 at 12:17
CORRUPT OFFICIALjust a “random” thought here,say they know an administration is coming down the line would the management team after being paid out be blamed for this by a callous board to shift blame from themselves
—————————————————————————————————————————–
I actually read quite a lot about the blame game Tony, but I don’t put too much store in it. It would be nice not to be blamed if things go Pete Tong, but I think it would be of little consequence to their thinking. Their main thoughts will be how an administration affects them personally. King lives in S.A. and Parks until recently in Spain, and the HK lenders god knows where. Given the blame, or filthy lucre game, I think filthy lucre wins hands down.
At the end of the day blame doesn’t = pounds. Although it may be of some value when gaining favour with the turn-style twisters, it will get them nowhere with a straight administrator.
I think that will be their priority.
Kin yi imagine the bloo room a week last Monday when they assembled for their weekly chinwag,
… D.K. (via skype) … good morning Mark, how are you ?? … I’m good Mr King. …. WHAT?? …Yi want to resign ?? … STUART, ….. did yi ‘n hear that ?? … ah sure did mr king, …. Right, Weir an’ McParland, ah take it you want tae chuck it innaw, …. ehh no mr king, we’re very happy along with Mark in the job, …….RIGHT, … that’s it, I accept yir resignations with immediate effect !!, ….. noo pack yir bags an’ get tae effff !!!.
CORRUPT OFFICIAL
it was just musings in my head,as just when you think you know what they are up to something else then happens,any other club and SFA would go through them,absolute basket case
CORRUPT OFFICIALFEBRUARY 16, 2017 at 13:12
TONYFEBRUARY 16, 2017 at 12:17CORRUPT OFFICIALjust a “random” thought here,say they know an administration is coming down the line would the management team after being paid out be blamed for this by a callous board to shift blame from themselves —————————————————————————————————————————– I actually read quite a lot about the blame game Tony, but I don’t put too much store in it. It would be nice not to be blamed if things go Pete Tong, but I think it would be of little consequence to their thinking. Their main thoughts will be how an administration affects them personally. King lives in S.A. and Parks until recently in Spain, and the HK lenders god knows where. Given the blame, or filthy lucre game, I think filthy lucre wins hands down. At the end of the day blame doesn’t = pounds. Although it may be of some value when gaining favour with the turn-style twisters, it will get them nowhere with a straight administrator. I think that will be their priority.
________________
I think this latest mess, just like so many before, could be down to the fact that dishonest people, like King, Green etc, cannot grasp that honest people sometimes win. Just as EBTs didn’t guarantee success, every time, for RFC, lies and bluster, even with help in high and low places, doesn’t guarantee ‘getting away with it’, every time either.
At some point, too, they have to face the problem of having honest people within their own camp, people who might find themselves waking up from the dream they’ve been living to find it’s actually a nightmare. People who have a voice, but are not used to working with lies (well big lies), but know they have to do and say something to try to sort the mess the lies have created. Dealing with that could produce even more problems for people like Dave King, who is certainly not used to working with truth.
And, of course, there’s also the fact that people like King are never anywhere near as smart as they think they are! They take advantage of the gullible, but make the mistake of thinking that all honest people are gullible, too, and believe those who aren’t gullible are just as dishonest as they are.
Whilst us Bampots deservedly giggle at the latest stupefying events down Govan way, ultimately it is not good for Scottish football.
The ‘resignations / non-resignations’ seemed to get coverage on Sky, and presumably across the news wires/online for media outlets much further afield.
As a foreigner, if you had limited knowledge about the Scottish game but saw this crazy football story you would probably think it’s a Mickey Mouse set up – and your perception of Scottish teams – all teams – might be clouded.
This is the relentless, negative effect of the Ibrox shambles on all of Scottish football. Difficult to quantify, but every piece of nonsense reported about TRFC can’t reflect well on the SPFL.
And presumably commercial sponsors, (current and potential), would be fully aware.
And, IMO, it also comes back to our incompetent / corrupt SFA & SPFL.
Their abject failure to properly deal with RFC then TRFC has impaired the image / perception / commercial opportunities for all Scottish football senior clubs.
StevieBCFebruary 16, 2017 at 15:45
And that is what Regan and Doncaster are both employed to deal with, Stevie. The should be making sure that this negative publicity the game is getting is countered with a clear message that this mess is caused by, and belongs to, one club only, and not the whole of Scottish football.
ALLYJAMBO
but they started it and now can’t find a way out.if they told the truth first time around in 2012 this would not be happening
STEVIEBCFEBRUARY 16, 2017 at 15:45
How’s your French Stevie?
http://www.toutlemondesenfoot.fr/blog/2017/02/13/depart-de-mark-warburton-des-rangers-soap-opera-sauce-scottish/
StevieBC February 16, 2017 at 15:45
And, IMO, it also comes back to our incompetent / corrupt SFA & SPFL. Their abject failure to properly deal with RFC then TRFC has impaired the image / perception / commercial opportunities for all Scottish football senior clubs.
====================
Well, the SFA has just put up an advert for a new Head of Commercial Affarirs and Communications (to replace Darryl “I am the SFA” Broadfoot), so feel free to apply.
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/football_document_libraries.cfm?page=3882
Mischief ?
https://twitter.com/Pmacgiollabhain/status/832275631522119684
Are things so bad cash wise down ibrox way that have they replaced JOBS with volunteers and call it a matchday job.
Have any of these low paid workers(maybe on the living wage). had to make way for unpaid matchday jobs?
Regardless of what he can do and who we support the guy was still a crucial cog in two well drilled teams.
Celtic and Aberdeen have a piece of history of which he was very mauch a part of.
To late to edit once again…sorry about that
Notice how the word volunteer has been removed
CLUSTER ONEFEBRUARY 16, 2017 at 18:36
Re:the unpaid stewarding
I wonder what the police think of this wheeze.
GUNNERB
thought you would need to have a license too these days and possibly first aid training,HSE might not be to chuffed either
On the face of it I don’t see anything wrong with volunteers being used as ‘meeters and greeters’ getting to see a match for free. If on the other hand they are replacing paid for stewards who are trained to deal with eventualities that would something else entirely. Surely they would not be so stupid.
Suppose there is no way TRFC can make this months payroll especially if the three amigos are involved and they still need some assistance from director loans for the remaining staff.Question: as a director who has already exposed oneself to a significant sum of softees at what point do you consider administration and the implications.Should admin come to pass then the parent company RIFC I assume will be the major plus 75% creditor and able to determine the terms of any CVA. The three amigos get pence as do all other creditors.TRFC come out the other side with a cheaper less able but younger squad and still in the top division of the SPFL.Mike Ashley still has his retail deal. King and Murray must be ousted post admin to allow a rapprochement with sports direct. How much do the RRM lose in this scenario?
People talking about administration again.
Can I ask the same question again.
The PLC or the Ltd Company.
Can recall a while ago Ewing Grahame broke the story that a Sevco admin – due to the position taken by the SPFL/SFA in affirming the continuity fairytale – would be met with a 25 point, rather than a 15 point penalty, due to it being the “same club” ergo “second” insolvency event.
Would that 25 point penalty still apply to Sevco, given time now passed?
Would love it if the “official” continuity Sevco fans like to bleat about came back to bite them. Why do i think the rules will permit them a get out of jail free card though…
EASTWOOD
think it is if it happens within 5 years you get 25 points,so it would be 25 but anything goes with the SFA and sevco
Depends what date of event you use. Admin was 14/2/12 so more than 5 years ago regardless of continuity, mythical or otherwise. A further event took place though in October 2012 so less than 5 years ago.
HOMUNCULUSFEBRUARY 16, 2017 at 20:54 Rate This
People talking about administration again.
Can I ask the same question again.
The PLC or the Ltd Company.
_____________________________________________
Hi Homunculus, my post refers to the TRFC as a subsidiary of RIFC suffering an insolvency event.I understand that RIFC are the major creditor and parent company to whom TRFC owe substantial sums, am I missing something in the effect a subsidiary admin may have on the parent?
cheers
GUNNERBFEBRUARY 16, 2017 at 20:31 5 Votes
CLUSTER ONEFEBRUARY 16, 2017 at 18:36
Re:the unpaid stewardingI wonder what the police think of this wheeze.
——————–
could see their match day experience disappear
GUNNERBFEBRUARY 16, 2017 at 20:44
Suppose there is no way TRFC can make this months payroll especially if the three amigos are involved and they still need some assistance from director loans for the remaining staff.Question: as a director who has already exposed oneself to a significant sum of softees at what point do you consider administration and the implications.Should admin come to pass then the parent company RIFC I assume will be the major plus 75% creditor and able to determine the terms of any CVA. The three amigos get pence as do all other creditors.TRFC come out the other side with a cheaper less able but younger squad and still in the top division of the SPFL.Mike Ashley still has his retail deal. King and Murray must be ousted post admin to allow a rapprochement with sports direct. How much do the RRM lose in this scenario?
——————————————————————————————————————————
Impossible to quantify Gunner. To achieve a successful CVA, somebody has to come up with an acceptable offer to the creditors. In theory that could range from anywhere between 1p to 100p in the pound.
As far as I’m aware, RIFC PLC only has one asset, and that is TRFC. What TRFC would eventually actually contain as a basket of assets, would be anybody’s guess. Administrators could slice, carve, pack and parcel it as they see fit.
I don’t think they would replace stewarding, is someone not already getting a kickback for that? I’m sure it would be attractive to some, but not sure they’d be happy with the uniform……