The Covid 19 Pandemic is a truly serious game-changing situation for us all.
We are all currently staring into a future with no declared road map exit of
how we might move back to normality and the certainty of disruption now and
long into the future.
Against the background of lockdown to curb the virus spread we have all run smack bang into economic and social chaos.
We have gone from normality into unheard of times virtually overnight and with horrendous economic consequences coming every which way into the future.
Football is not important in the greater scheme of things but still has issues that need attention and urgently because it affects people’s lives.
This Week’s SPFL Plan to Move On
The SPFL are simply the members association who run our leagues on a “for the members, by the members, for the members” kind of way in theory.
For reasons known to them they collectively took the decision to start to draw an end to season 2019 – 2020 with its Covid 19 uncertainty.
This was probably to allow them and all their members (our clubs) to at least
start to plan for the future when income streams will return.
From speaking to those involved from the club side and reading and hearing more at a truly astonishing pace since Wednesday 8th of April, just 3 day ago, the SPFL decided in their wisdom that the best solution was to conflate two particular issues.
To back their case quite forcibly they also provided a dossier of over 100 pages of supportive material. All good bedtime reading for our club’s boards I have been told, but i haven’t seen it.
The issues the SPFL decided to conflate were to ‘pro-rata’ all games played so far this season so they could equalise and close the Championship and Leagues 1 and 2, with the Premiership going the same way if it became clear that fixtures could not be completed.
If and only if the motion was agreed by the members then the end of season prize money would be forthcoming from the SPFL bank almost immediately.
Money desperately needed by some members. A real lifeline in troubled times.
There was also another possible wee carrot dangled.
This might have been of a sort of half-hearted agreement to look at re-organisation of Scottish Football. This because despite the dossier urging clubs to vote yes, the SPFL knew some clubs would not be happy with their proposals and would not agree.
In the Real World of Challenged and Stressed Football Clubs
The SPFL conflation of “do this or no money” meant things like.
The title would be handed to Celtic eventually if Premier Clubs then followed suit, despite Rangers having a mathematical, albeit statistically unlikely, chance of catching their rivals.
Hearts would be relegated despite having enough games to catch their nearest rivals and stay safe possibly by a play off (if they hadn’t already been cancelled).
Partick Thistle would be relegated because they failed to play one league game while playing another SPFL competition and also had a bunch of games left to save themselves.
Stranraer would go down despite being proven late season successful relegation fighters.
Brora (declared Highland Champions) and Kelty (current leaders in Lowland League, by a bawhair over Bonnyrigg) would have no play off with a likely game against Brechin or whoever was going to be bottom of the SPFL2 league.
And these are just the tip of what football chiefs I’ve spoken with have termed an ill-considered iceberg of matters arising from a hapless attempt to bring some certainty to the SPFL membership.
72 Hours of Mayhem as Peter was Played Against Paul
People are interconnected today and from the moment clubs were pushed into a corner they discussed it together and in depth.
They all know who voted how why and when and have WhatsApp records too.
They all feel they could have done it better. I can’t try to sum up the sheer enormity and quantity of what has happened since Wednesday night but after I had penned a piece for SFM on Friday with suggestions that there was a civil war brewing that is just indeed what happened.
Every club effectively had a moral and economic choice and sometimes they were conflicting.
Friday was too close to call
I was in a few communication loops sitting at home on Friday afternoon as the vote unfolded.
I had been warned how close it was going to be and it was fascinating with first Inverness seen as the potentially key vote then an acceptance just before 5 that the whole thing had failed.
Then, 5.30ish, a different and quite hopeful view came out that after the vote had been seen to have failed that a 14, 14, 14, compromised was likely. Sense seemed to be prevailing. Then later and very late in the day a view that 1 vote (Dundee) had still to come and was in effect now the casting vote with all the power that casting votes carry.
Since then we have first seen Dundee castigated in the press and by unthinking media pundits as the villains for holding everything up.
(But that’s now old news).
Today (Sat 11th April), ICT Chief Executive Scott Gardiner was on BBC Sportsound alongside Richard Gordon, Michael Stewart Tom English, Kenny Miller and later on Willie Miller. It wasn’t a normal filler show in a period with no football.
It was truly amazing with some hard facts and honest insights. Uncommonly so.
I should have been forewarned after one well know football finance insider had tweeted last night (Fri) ahead of the curve that “Dundee will have earned some concession and will now change their vote” or words to that effect.
Wow he was ahead of the tsunami that burst this afternoon. If you haven’t heard BBC Sportsound at 2 pm today then the first hour or so is unmissable.
Since then matters have gone on apace we have now heard that Douglas Park, interim Chairman of Rangers, wants the SPFL CEO Neil Doncaster and legal counsel Rod Mackenzie (Rangers links) to stand down ahead of an independent inquiry.
So less than a day after a yet to be agreed vote outcome and genuine internecine war is brewing and exploding with Mr Parks claiming he has damning information from a whistleblower.
In turn he has been asked by the current SPFL Chairman Murdoch MacLennan to substantiate his “very serious accusations”. .
So Who Scored the Own Goal and What Can We Do About It?
As of now I actually don’t care who did what and when.
Stuff has happened and in the fullness of time we can look at how it happened and what we can do to avoid it into the future.
Today we need to move forward and that needs leadership.
Here is a 5 point roadmap.
Ditch this divisive plan
It doesn’t matter how Dundee vote just consign all this crap to history.
Pay all the monies due
This week no strings and if that needs a vote then vote on that and that alone.
Agree what happens and how to end the season
Scottish Football Supporters Association say this must include no relegation and pyramid winners should be included. Don’t penalise anyone at this time.
And an interim plan would be fine of three leagues like nearly got agreed for 20 minutes on Friday.
Take time
End the season properly and fairly and plan for the future to reinvigorate our game for the greater good. The world has changed but we haven’t.
Involve all stakeholders especially the fans
This should all be on the record and transparent.
The Time To Stop The War is Now
Yesterday I was up in the attic, looking at the ballcock in the cold-water tank ( the external overflow pipe was dripping water onto my garden bench thingy). It was fraction too low in the water, so a washer must need replacing.
Astonishingly, though, I noticed that there was a slimy wee beast of a snail inside the tank, just above the water level! I speared it out with a screwdriver, put it in a plastic bag, stood on it, and took it down to the bin.
A few minutes ago I read Keef's bit of pseudo-journalism.
And was immediately into reflecting on the relative worth of a human being like Keef and the harmless wee snail in my water tank.
I have a clear idea which is of lesser worth in my estimation, and it is not the snail.
Honest to God! Keef as a crusader for what is right is something that does not compute!
upthehoops 27th April 2020 at 09:50
Just reading elsewhere on the web that Rangers are planning to move to English football. All sorted then, and like every good fairytale 'they all lived happily ever after.'
=============================================
One of those situations perhaps where you give the most glowing of references in response to an enquiry about a current employee in the hope that the poor sucker company will take the annoying and parasitical person off your hands. Which I would never ever do. Oh no…
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
‘upthehoops 27th April 2020 at 06:49
Aside from the constant contradictory statements. does anyone have any idea what Rangers are getting so upset about?…’
##################
I don’t think that RIFC/TRFC (whichever entity is driving this scheme) is any more upset than is the norm for that organisation. What’s different at the moment is how that ‘upset’ is being managed, particularly without the input (Steadying hand? Ah-ha!) of DCK & Traynor.
I think RIFC/TRFC’s actions are driven, like many bullies, by fear; fear of being seen as ordinary, fear of their perceived WATP lead-dog position being replaced by being one of the pack, fear of losing ‘credibility’ with their foot-soldiers (and hence the ‘Ulsterisation’ that’s occurring to ‘spice up’ their following), fear of skeletons tumbling out of closets &, perhaps above all, fear of being skint to the extent that they seemingly are.
I suspect that things are very-much on the knife-edge at Ibrox. World events have diminished the perceived/inflated values of Morelos/Barisic/Tavernier/Kamara/Goldson et al. Those same world events have chased away the blessing of unicorns, all with £10m bank drafts impaled on their horns, which were almost ready to be corralled for ‘fresh investment’. Debts are due to be serviced, but the cupboard’s bare.
They’re in the sh!t up to their oxters & they know it. They think their best way out is to splash about & spread the contaminant over anyone close by. It really isn’t & D. Park & co. should know that, but their mindset sees that as their only option.
upthehoops 27th April 2020 at 06:49
Aside from the constant contradictory statements. does anyone have any idea what Rangers are getting so upset about?
==========================================
Celtic doing 9 IAR is something they seemed to have resigned themselves to a few games after the return from Dubai. If anything this virus has provided a useful deflection from on field failings.
When the Big Liar legged it, The statements were curt, but not overly panicky. Only the news that the leagues were to be called caused the full Corporal Jones. Initial statements were in full headless chicken mode. Gradually these have become more muted as they have formulated something on the hoof to events.
Every club in Scotland has had whatever they did have planned completely thrown into disarray. Whatever Sevco had planned, or projected did not involve £2.4m arriving in the coffers too soon. (And this club is a club where every penny should be a prisoner).
They need delays to that, (for whatever reason), and now, slightly more composed, have laid out a delaying formula, and the necessary time frames required or EGM's offers them the best opportunity. They do want the 2nd spot money, indeed, will have budgeted for it's arrival. …..They just do not want it at the moment. For whatever reason, (and there are a host to choose from), they don't have the ducks in a row yet.
My feeling is a premature league ending seriously messed with their planned schedule. A voluntary administration event.
I think they are upset about nothing, other than the timing of cash deposits.
Corrupt Official @ 12.08
I agree that might just be the crux of the matter . I read someone on here a while ago ( it may have been your good self ? ) That they may have been banking on that money on the other side of an administration event . Nothing else seems to make sense. They MUST realise that Celtic being crowned champs is enevitable , the SPFL will just go along with the herd ( EPL and a lot of other leagues throuout Europe ), they probably dont have much option or they would look stupid ( or should I say stupider ! ) . Rangers Jumping on board with Hearts is fooling nobody , I stand by what I said in an earlier post . Rangers MkII would not think twice about bringing scottish football down with them if they could . " Its ma baw n your no playing with it " Mentality of ra peepul . I have no time for Anne Budge but I do feel sorry for Hearts as they could have realistically MAYBE scraped a play off and possible survival. But Anne you need to look at the terrible football decisions you have made. I was in favour of no relegation and a 14 team league but after reading more stuff from different blogs it would be a bit daft to do it now, wait and see how many teams we have by the time this is over, Hearts may yet get a reprieve. Listening to wee Nicola , football aint gonna be back anytime soon. The Scottish government will do football no favours , they seem to hate football and its fans. Incidentley what is the cut off date for an administration event for points to be deducted this season ?
upthehoops
Imagine them trying their nonsense with the English FA
I think what is more upsetting is they are rapidly losing the battle to stay solvent and all that investment and all those shares are on the verge of becoming worthless. As debts continue to pile up ,players contracts continue to run down and the need for a scapegoat is becoming increasingly desperate . Their level of debt used to be measurable in the faux offers for Morelos , it can now be measured in packets of Crayola used by the PR dept. Even the MSM are finding it difficult to promote the latest tantrum without a sidenote questioning its credibility. Ashley has them by the throat , Close Brothers have pinned both arms behind their back and what Memorial Walls have them by is best left unsaid on a family forum. As we know that is just the tip of the iceberg but as in the case of a big liner that also had strong Belfast connections it was what was unseen that dealt a fatal blow.
roddybhoy 27th April 2020 at 13:14
I have no time for Anne Budge but I do feel sorry for Hearts as they could have realistically MAYBE scraped a play off and possible survival. But Anne you need to look at the terrible football decisions you have made.
==================================
Ditto. I have maybe sounded condescending towards Hearts in some posts, but that was not how I intended them to be. I like the Jambos and it is one of my favourite stadiums. You have summed up better than I have.
roddybhoy 27th April 2020 at 13:14
'..Incidentley what is the cut off date for an administration event for points to be deducted this season ?'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Ha ha,roddybhoy, first determine when the 'season' ends!
The stark situation TRFC find themselves in seems to me to be this:
having to make a choice between going now for a Voluntary Administration and taking the 15- point hit now, thus 'handing' the League title to Celtic, but possibly saving the club from going bust [ screwing their creditors to some extent, but staying alive] . If there is a next season, they would have another 5 point deduction, but they could theoretically overcome that.
OR
Holding out for completion of the remaining games in the hope of winning the title, and thus qualifying for CL (if there is a next season) The risk is that they might go bust if a Vol Admin does not succeed and liquidators are called in ( and there's no guarantee that a Vol Admin will be successful.They would then not be able to stay in competition in this present season's EL.
They are between a rock and a very hard place indeed, and their days of living a lie might well be over, with bugger all to do with the effects of Covid-19.
Tony@13.19
Especially with their most recent celebrity fan boy and PR spokesman in tow.
John
"Haha Roddybhoy , first determine when season ends ! lol Valid point John lolol
They really are as you say between a rock and a hard place …….That karma's a bitch
roddybhoy 27th April 2020 at 14:35
John
"Haha Roddybhoy , first determine when season ends ! lol Valid point John lolol
They really are as you say between a rock and a hard place …….That karma's a bitch
=================================================
Karmageddon! 🙂
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Ex Ludo
Who's party keeps getting cash for votes, all very murky
tony27th April 2020 at 13:19
Imagine them trying their nonsense with the English FA
———
I have oftened wondered how the English FA would have reacted if much of e.g Man Utd's modern success was founded on illegal tax evasion. I doubt if they would have fallen over themselves to make up rules to excuse it. I doubt the English media would tolerate it if they tried in any case.
John Clark 27th April 2020 at 14:08
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'm not convinced entering and exiting Admin is actually possible for this iteration of a club/company playing at Ibrox for various reasons.
One, have they actually got the money to pay an Administrator
Two, Close Bros have charges over significant assets and they would be taken by them rather than vote for any pennies in the pound deal.
Three, Sports Direct, Memorial Walls would be significant creditors and would probably not vote for a CVA.
Four, the footballing debts are around £25m. The SFA would expect these to be paid not dumped in a CVA or liquidation. Therefore, a Third Rangers entering the SPFL would be extremely difficult for anyone to finance. A new investor would be paying off the debts of the current TRFC, that would be difficult to swallow. It was a bugbare of Greens and the amounts involved then were miniscule by comparison.
I'm afraid it's goodbye for good this time.
Homunculus 26th April 2020 at 21:30
…………..
Timtim 26th April 2020 at 21:48
@Homunculus
It’s my understanding (I may have misunderstood) that the decision would be taken by the Board of the SPFL and not by the individual clubs.
…………………
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/scottish-football/10631856/Scottish-football-abandons-plans-to-automatically-relegate-clubs-in-administration.html
…………..
It has also been agreed that, in future, the SPFL Board will have the sole responsibility for adjudication regarding clubs who might face liquidation.
“It will be down to the board to determine any conditions for a transfer of membership if a club is liquidated and attempts to go down the newco route,” said the source.
……………
I am a bit late, i hope this will help, i am just trying to catch up.
Bogs Dollox@16.46
“I'm afraid it's goodbye for good this time”
Hence the entirely false furore emanating from Ibrox. Support elicited from a DUP MP and filtered through a PR officer recruited from the ranks of the LOL surely represent the last throw of the dice.
Bogs Dollox 27th April 2020 at 16:46
‘..I’m not convinced entering and exiting Admin is actually possible for this iteration…..
I’m afraid it’s goodbye for good this time.”
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
I wonder, BD, has it ever happened that a football club went into Administration,
-and the firm of Insolvency Practitioners appointed to handle that Administration managed to find a friend of the chap who owned that football club in distress
and being unable to arrange a CVA , were happily able to sell some of the principal assets of that football club quite cheaply to that friend, while they handed the club over to the Liquidators
Could that ever have happened?
Could a football governance body ever admit a new club and then lie to all and sundry that it was not a new club but was actually the very same club as a club had been liquidated?
Surely that could never have happened, and couldn’t happen anywhere!
Cluster One 27th April 2020 at 17:04
“It will be down to the board to determine any conditions for a transfer of membership if a club is liquidated and attempts to go down the newco route,” said the source.
——————————————————–
I'm not having a go at you CO, you are clearly just quoting something.
That's a non sequitur. If a "club is liquidated" it cannot go down any route, other than liquidation.
I can understand the point of the membership being transferred, but it would by definition be to a new club.
One wonders what particular agenda the "source" was supporting.
FAO John Clark
If and when normal Court of Session proceedings resume in the cases we have been following, it may be possible to dial into the live proceedings.
At the moment, access is limited to Inner House appeals, but could be extended to the Outer House later.
The access process is detailed in the following link.
http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/24/2376/Public-access—Court-of-Session-Inner-House-appeals
One problem I see with that is the potential cost in joining such calls, unless you have a generous or “unlimited minutes” phone deal, or if access is via an 0800 number.
John Clark 27th April 2020 at 17:41
I wonder, BD, has it ever happened that a football club went into Administration,
-and the firm of Insolvency Practitioners appointed to handle that Administration managed to find a friend of the chap who owned that football club in distress
and being unable to arrange a CVA , were happily able to sell some of the principal assets of that football club quite cheaply to that friend, while they handed the club over to the Liquidators
– while that friend who did not have the will or resources just to pay all the creditors and buy the football club and ALL its assets (club A) but who did have a (nudge, nudge) wee plan to set up a brand new football club (club B) and persuade the Football Authorities, by paying some of the monies owed to the Football Governance body by the liquidated Club A to agree that he was actually buying Club A with all its football history etc etc.
Could that ever have happened?
Could a football governance body ever admit a new club and then lie to all and sundry that it was not a new club but was actually the very same club as a club had been liquidated?
Surely that could never have happened, and couldn't happen anywhere!
while that very Governance was body was itself freshly admitting Club B as a new club into its Association
………………………………………………..
Now there's a story for the BBC to get down and dirty with John.
And something for clubs (with the greater good at heart) to ask for an independent investigation into.
Of course, if said potless friend arrived 12 months earlier and took out out the present lender and his troublesome floating charge that would be just inordinately handy, if somewhat disappointing for whichever mug had provided him the funds to do so.
easyJambo 27th April 2020 at 17:48
'…If and when normal Court of Session proceedings resume in the cases we have been following.'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
I've been missing the whole business of looking out for Court proceedings!
It's an interesting development. I would imagine that the Press wouldn't have to pay, and the fact that the news item doesn't mention a charge is maybe a good sign that it will be a freephone number.
I hope so, just for the interest of the experiment, even if there was nothing in the near future ( I haven't looked at the 'Roll' yet to see) relating to RIFC/TRFC or damages claims.
Thanks for spotting that, and letting me know.
SPFL EGM on 12 May at 11am.
TRFC, Hearts and Stranraer made the request.
At least it’s not going to take the full 7 weeks that the SPFL Board had to schedule the meeting.
Over to you TRFC. Publish the dossier now.
easyJambo 27th April 2020 at 19:29
===============================
The Rangers support are already planning the Court case in the event that under 75% support the resolution.
Apparently there are feet on throats and they aren't stopping now.
It will be interesting to see if they provide their evidence to the papers as well. No doubt someone will leak it whatever happens.
Lets say TRFC gets enough support for an independent inquiry.
Who decides on the composition of, and who is appointed to the inquiry tribunal?
Further to that, who sets the terms of reference and who determines the powers of the inquiry to call witnesses, view or take other evidence? Would witnesses be compelled to give evidence?
The SPFL?
So many questions, and that’s before we get to the answers.
I'm hearing that Alex Rae on SSB tonight has called for no points reduction for any club going into administration due to the current situation . One way to solve the shortfall would be for Alex and his pals to pay back the loans to the same club* that issued them. So the agenda is very clear and the direction they are headed is baked in the cake. I would fully support Alex' call for any clubs who were solvent before this outbreak occurred , unfortunately the only club he is concerned for had a large going concern warning in their last audit. So we can all sit back now and await the evidence that they promised to display well in advance of the 12th of May .
So there was enough said by the requisitioners to persuade the necessary number to ensure that the required majority was achieved.
What fun! Shall we see allegations of greater 'skullduggery' than, say, the 5-Way Agreement was? Or allegations of breaches of Financial Conduct rules more serious than 'concert partying', or of major breaches of the Companies Act 2006,or might there be allegations of bribery and corruption,or of threatening behavior, or of blackmail…………
This could be a soap opera greater than the TRFC saga itself.
And the good thing about it is that there are no goodies! Every club in the SPFL is guilty of having accepted or at least tolerated the Big Lie.
And if the SPFL tears itself apart even before covid-19 wreaks any more damage-hell mend them.
Our withers are unwrung.
easyJambo 27th April 2020 at 20:03
To be truly forensic , all media would have to be investigated , not just the clubs' or authorities' phones and laptops , but also the personal devices of all those involved . That's the way to establish the narrative and time line . I'd be saying "no" if I was involved , though .
When many clubs in England are rushing to restart football it’s good to see some are taking a caring approach. In my opinion Watfords are doing it right.
Football must not restart until strain on NHS eases, says Watford chairman
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/27/football-not-restart-until-strain-nhs-eases-says-watford-chairman-scott-duxbury
Homunculus 27th April 2020 at 17:47
Caught up i think.
It was more the no relegation and it was now up to the board and not the clubs i was trying to point out in my haste.
Your reply is correct and i believe “the source” was going down the rabbit hole.
I would imagine that the evidence dossier would have to be in the hands of the clubs in pretty short order to allow them to do their own due diligence and properly investigate the claims' authenticity . Keeping the "evidence" confidential will be close to impossible .
Timtim 27th April 2020 at 20:13
So we can all sit back now and await the evidence that they promised to display well in advance of the 12th of May .
………………
They did Pledge to provide clubs with evidence ahead of any General meeting…Over to you Mr Park.
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1254853470290685954/photo/1
……..
Wonder if he may just now Sh@* himself and call admin.
The SPFL could hold votes on reconstruction, how to end the season and facilitate an independent inquiry, all at the same EGM.
Indeed, they might even wrap everything into a single resolution and vote, with a Board recommendation for each element of Yes, Now and No respectively, to either be accepted or rejected as a package.
All votes to be lodged by 5pm on 14 May, except for no votes which will be liable to change for the next 28 days.
Is that how it will work?
So TRFC has forced through it’s initial request for an EGM on 12th May?
So that’s over 2 weeks away.
IF an inquiry is voted for, then how long would it take to agree the details – and then how long to actually complete?
Ball park timeframe: end of June, at the very earliest?
[Plus an appeal window and submission/review?]
But this whole drama just doesn’t feel right, IMO.
Mibbees other events will have caught up with TRFC before any inquiry… or even before the 12th of May?
Fingers crossed.
But, there is absolutely one thing that’s guaranteed, regardless of any inquiry going ahead.
The Ibrox club has created further confusion, hostility and ill feeling across Scottish football which will linger – and be of no help whatsoever at this time of crisis.
easyJambo 27th April 2020 at 20:03
‘…Who decides on the composition of, and who is appointed to the inquiry tribunal?………
……The SPFL? ‘
“””””””””””””””””””””””””
I doubt if the SPFL -the very ‘accused’ -would be entitled to any more say in the composition of any Tribunal of Inquiry than TRFC.
Essentially, a member of an organisation is alleging malfeasance on the part of a governance body in the matter of a ballot being conducted under the rules of the organisation. The member thinks the result of the ballot was in effect ‘rigged’ because the ballot was not carried out properly under the rules. The member seeks to have the vote annulled.
That to me suggests that it is a matter for the Courts.
The aggrieved party should seek Judicial Review of the Organisation’s actions and how the ballot was held: only the Courts have the powers necessary to compel witnesses and assess the factual evidence and decide whether the Organisation whether wittingly or unwittingly acted perversely and/or ultra vires.
I would, therefore, suggest to the SPFL general meeting to be held on 12 May that their only possible response to the TRFC requisitioners is that the meeting does not have the authority or power to determine in law whether the Board of the SPFL exceeded the legal powers and authority conferred on it by the Articles of Association; and that it falls to the aggrieved member to seek redress in the Courts.
[I will charge no fee for providing that advice moved as I am by a desire for truth, peace, harmony , sporting integrity and goodwill at every level of Scottish Football]
@C1
Park has a simple choice , keep writing cheques or pull the plug . After putting in so much cash it will be a tough decision to say enough is enough . Even with a %age of wages deferred there will still be a hefty amount to stump up in a few days time . He is sitting at the table with heehaw and all the other players sense he is bluffing . A wise player would fold and accept the loss , does he really want to put more cash in the pot knowing he has nothing of substance to declare. The saying that "if you want to make a small fortune in football then start with a large one" has never rung truer.
Cluster One 27th April 2020 at 21:06
Nothing to do with Mr Park . He's chair of RIFC not TRFC . Who has the dossier ?
paddy malarkey 27th April 2020 at 22:17
………………………………… Park was the one calling for an independent inquiry, then it became rangers will produce evidence.
….
Who has the dossier ? ….indeed?
John Clark 27th April 2020 at 20:18
'Our withers are unwrung'.
John C, I'll see your Hamlet and raise you Julius Caeser:
Integrity! Integrity! They're all out to get me!
Stay safe.
Of course the SPFL shouldn’t have anything to do with appointing a tribunal to investigate itself. You might think it would go up a level higher to the SFA to deal with this. But look what happened the last time the SFA tried to act like an appellant body. Lord Nimmo Smith!
I reckon JC is correct, it would have to go to court. CAS?
But to be honest I think the whole idea will be flung out at an EGM and we won’t get to this stage.
paddy malarkey 27th April 2020 at 22:17
'… Who has the dossier ? '
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
The 2020 echo of 'who has the deeds?' Naughty boy, pm!
John Brown at least knew that there were 'deeds' that would show ownership of the stadium.
Who knows that there even is a 'dossier'?
Smart money would still seem to sit with the SPFL having granted the meeting. There seems more chance of an unsatisfactory dossier putting the lid back on the box of one particularly troublesome requisitioner than there does of unheard evidence blowing the doors off everything.
one question occurs. In line with others querying who defines an enquiry boundaries, do Deloitte get paid for theirs and if so, will the sanctioning authority within the SPFL still be receiving his 100% bonus this year?
https://youtu.be/lLcpcytUnWU
Noam Chomsky v Andrew Marr
I’m pretty certain neither man knows very little about football in fair Caledonia but Professor Chomsky patiently explains to Mr Marr how the mass media really functions.
stifflersmom 27th April 2020 at 23:10
‘.I’ll see your Hamlet and raise you Julius Caeser:..
“””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Quite serendipitously, stifflersmom, I tuned in to a BBC radio 4 ‘Henry IV (part one)’ last night.
And when I am reminded of Shakespeare , I am reminded of my 15/16/17 -year old self -, and the realisation that the guy knew a thing or two!
What a wonderful play he could have written about the ‘saga’!
And my favourite play was ‘Hamlet’. And because I liked it, I found it relatively easy to learn and remember some of the quotable quotes.
Your Caesar was, of course, stabbed to death by those he thought were his ‘friends’!
Just as the SPFL is in danger of being stabbed by those it thought were friends enough to lie for in 2012.
What goes round comes around, as Shakespeare may have said!
easyJambo 27th April 2020 at 21:35
The SPFL could hold votes on reconstruction, how to end the season and facilitate an independent inquiry, all at the same EGM.
Indeed, they might even wrap everything into a single resolution and vote, with a Board recommendation for each element of Yes, Now and No respectively, to either be accepted or rejected as a package.
All votes to be lodged by 5pm on 14 May, except for no votes which will be liable to change for the next 28 days.
Is that how it will work?
============================
No, it isn't.
25% of the members have put forward a resolution and asked for a general meeting to vote on it.
That is what is now going to happen. They will vote on that resolution.
I hope it is accepted and the independent inquiry takes place, however if it doesn't I am willing to accept that as well.
That's how it works as far as I am aware.
Homunculus, I am confused. 3 members asked for an EGM. In order to vote on a resolution for there to be an independent inquiry. A resolution put forward by TRFC.
Where is this 25% coming from?
Brian from East Kilbride (seemed like an erudite guy) phoned into ‘the river radio football show’ earlier:
Brian: What do Rangers (sic) actually want’? Gordon Duncan acknowledges that this is a good question (fair play)
Brian asked the same question three times(!) as Alex Rae attempted to avoid the question.
So then, he (the IBT recipent of £569K Alex) answered; (but only on the firm insistence of Brian from EK):
‘Maybe they want honesty of a process’ Alex Rae (frontline staff and taxpayers wont argue with this Alex!)
Brian: ‘Forget the process’… (which you’d have thought Alex EBT would agree with)!
‘Naw, naw, naw, is that not a legitimate question to you?’…’maybe they (TRFC) want honesty and transparency and they (TRFC) don’t think that’s been done and if they fight their case on that surely that’s a reason in itself’? Alex Rae (who’s asking the questions tonight Alex?)
‘..the word wrongdoing has to be investigated…if you’re suggesting the governing body is guilty of wrongdoing….then surely that in itself is justification for having a hearing to establish who did what’? Hugh Keevins (awww, Hugh! Really?)
The word wrongdoing HAS to be investigated! Hugh (time for online confession) Keevins
‘…having spoken to a sports lawyer the other day….’ Alex Rae (eh, not for the first or last time Alex!
‘A certain level of wrongdoing..’ Gordon Duncan (what level of wrongdoing is acceptable Gordon)?
The only comparable event HK could conjure up was the Jorge Cadete transfer 24 years ago. (yeah, we need to bring Celtic in to this discussion Shug! That’s how far we all need to go back to find precedent Hugh! Or, we could just rewind to Valentines Day 2012)!
‘Wrongdoing has to be investigated’! Gordon Duncan (Ok Gordy, let’s have a grown up discussion about wrongdoing!)
‘It’s not all about Rangers..’ Gordon Duncan (finally, we’re reading the same hymn sheet Gordy!)
Do we know for certain that TRFC has put forward a resolution to actually vote on?
Common sense says that it should have done so; but, some may think TRFC and common sense are not well known to one another.
My understanding is that notice of a resolution to be voted on at a general meeting must be given with 14 days clear notice. If I am correct, the resolution should have been notified to the clubs on Monday (yesterday). Was it? Does anyone know?
It is perfectly possible to requisition a general meeting simply to discuss concerns with fellow shareholders and guage support – rather than commit to having a formal vote right now.
If, following the general meeting, the requisitioners are confident that a vote will pass, they can request a second meeting for the vote or put forward a written resolution to force the company to hold an enquiry with such terms of reference as is necessary.
If TRFC has a genuine concern around corporate governance, one would expect that it will want to bring matters to a conclusion as soon as possible.
If this is the case, the 42 clubs will all have a copy of a resolution that details the terms of reference for the enquiry being proposed.
But, what does it say if no such resolution has been submitted?
John Clark 27th April 2020 at 23:54
…What a wonderful play he could have written about the ‘saga’!
Not wishing to question Mr JC… one could have mistaken 'saga' for 'Saggara'?!
I'll get my coat….
J.C. RE: Sheakspeare " the guy knew a thing or two"
quite simply John, the greatest psychologist the world will ever see.
HS
stifflersmom 28th April 2020 at 01:09
Apologies, I forgot to make my point! Despite Brian (from East Kilbride] asking the same question 3 times, not one of them answered it, unless answering his question with their question is an answer.
My point is, each time the pundits on the ’river radio show’ are asked a pertinent question by someone they feel uncomfortable with (by that I mean someone with more insight and a modicum of footballing knowledge in comparison) they persistently dismiss them and refuse to address the question. You’d have thought by now that they’d have managed to neutralise guys like Brian (from EK) before they’d given him clearance to take the stage!
Peace and good health to all around us.
stifflersmom 28th April 2020 at 01:09 and 02:55
I also heard Alex Rage EBT deflect from the fairly reasonable question: “What do T’Rangers actually want?”
Answer came there none but Alex Rage EBT was clear he was a man mighty concerned about integrity, honesty and transparency. Good to hear in these taxing times. Mr Rage also opined that Clubs entering Administration should not suffer points deductions. Good to hear his concern when he is obviously not referring to his own team of choice as the Most Successful Wonderful Club In The Cosmos wouldn’t have to worry about such piffling details. The Company might have a worry or three but not the Club. After all this the caller still didn’t get a simple straight answer to a simple straight question.
I have to admit I was slightly distracted because at one point I was sure Hugh Keevins expressed his opinion on League Reconstruction in a way I had just convinced myself I must have misheard as it was a) so stupid and b) no-one in the studio commented on it. Moments later I had confirmation my hearing was fine when the Bold Shug repeated his presumably prepared line, which must have sounded good in his head; a warning that “We were in danger of putting the horse before the cart.” Wise words, Shug. That’s the last place you want to put the horse. Especially if you don’t want to get anywhere.
Almost up there with another Master Wordsmith, James Traynor, who once observed on a BBC Radio Scotland show that he knew that in relation to a Managerial vacancy a certain party was “going to throw his ring into the hat”.
Professional word users.
How bad can the Amateurs be?
Better than the Professionals it would appear.
In my humble opinion, with no inside knowledge at all, some things are now beginning to line up, and the comment by Mr Alex Rae last night is what is swinging it for me. An insolvency event is on its way at Ibrox and the rabble rousing is to ensure when it happens there is no points deduction. Such an event would of course be blamed by Rangers and the media on the Covid-19 crisis, when it is a matter of fact they needed several millions to see out the season in any case, as documented in their audited accounts. However, wouldn't safety in numbers be required, i.e more than one club will have to suffer such an event for a no points deduction outcome?
I will state again that I am of the firm belief that if Rangers had truly damning evidence, it would already have been released via the media. Most great genuine scandals in life are played out in the media, yet in this case the media have nothing to go on, other than the many Rangers fans among them keeping the rabble rousing bubbling up with no evidence to back it.
Given their quest for honesty and transparency, I wonder how the media would react if they were provided with slam dunk evidence that a club should not have been awarded a European licence in 2011?
With all the Shakespeare appearing on the site I found myself back at school again.
“Thou art a boil, a plague sore, an embossed carbuncle in my corrupted blood” King Lear Act II Scene IV
“Hoist with his own petard” Hamlet Act III Scene IV
Not only was Shakespeare a clever playwright but he could rival Nostradamus in prescience.
upthehoops 28th April 2020 at 07:02
In my humble opinion, with no inside knowledge at all, some things are now beginning to line up, and the comment by Mr Alex Rae last night is what is swinging it for me. An insolvency event is on its way at Ibrox and the rabble rousing is to ensure when it happens there is no points deduction.
===============================================
UTH, I am no accountant, and it would take somebody with more knowledge of accounting than I, but a points deduction may not be a concern if the company that owns a company that runs a club is liquidated, rather than the company that runs the club….(Which is merely an asset and can be "auctioned" off, by a friendly administrator). Much would depend on which company now holds the debt. A wee peek at the accounts would be handy.
Funnily enough, the company that runs the club, may be in for a couple of million windfall in a few weeks.,,,,,,,But that's not official.
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC437060/RANGERS-INTERNATIONAL-FOOTBALL-CLUB-PLC/companies-house-data
Looks like the SPFL has util 25 May to advise UEFA of a restart date or whether the season is terminated.
Extract from a UEFA document in today's Times.
I’m slightly bemused that the consensus view on here remains that the contentious actions of the SPFL board surrounding the recent vote barely registers a raised eyebrow amongst posters, far less condemnation, and that it is somehow considered an outrage that the AGM requisitioners should dare to try to hold the board to account for what at face value appears to have been deliberate deception allied to gerrymandering. I am especially surprised considering this forum’s noble intention of holding our football authorities accountable to the fans.
I recognise that the SPFL is not a governance body, rather it is a trade organisation whose prime motivation relates to the financial well-being of its members.
I also recognise that ‘the requisitioners’ have a vested interest in establishing an independent inquiry into the vote – in Hearts and Stranraer’s case, the avoidance of relegation – in Rangers’* case, an attempt to stop, or at least be seen to attempt to stop, Celtic’s nine in a row.
However, so too do the other 39 clubs have their own vested interests, including Celtic, and I defy anyone to say that if the boot was on the other foot they’d be entirely happy and supportive of a process carried out by one of our football authorities that was reeking of controversy and a stitch-up.
The questionable motives behind the requisitioners' call for an inquiry don't alter the fact that the SPFL showed an appalling disregard for ethics, morals and principles of fairness that would normally have this forum in uproar – if it negatively affected the majority demographic.
Perhaps, as others have rightly pointed out, nothing illegal took place, but as far as we know nothing illegal took place in 2012, yet eight years later we still visit SFM daily to record our displeasure at those events.
Can I remind you of just three of the matters that to my mind justify an independent inquiry on their own, regardless of whether or not Rangers* hold further evidence of wrong-doing?
The decision to announce the result of an incomplete vote before all votes had been received – it is inescapable that they would only do that to influence the outcome and pressurise those whose votes were awaited;
The decision to disregard the vote submitted by Dundee and allow them to vote a second time – again, it is patently obvious by their u-turn that undue pressure was applied on Dundee to change their decisive vote;
The pressure applied on other clubs, tantamount to bullying according to some, by SPFL executives during the voting process, including the disclosure to clubs of how other member clubs had voted.
An interesting snippet picked up from a comment on JJs site this morning (apologies if already stated here and I missed it). That dundee secretary Eric Drysdale currently close to the action of the Friday night votegate crisis was one of the three panel members of Mr McCoist’s “who are these people“ dog whistles.
Apologies if i am, as is likely, behind the curve here.
Can someone quickly remind me, what it was the three man (person?) panel was voting on that so attracted his cheeky chap pie ire.
Highlander, In my own defence I stated on here several times that I couldn’t care less for what reason nor by whom if any of the suits at Hampden are brought to rights and get their comeuppance I would be fine with that. I mentioned Doncaster especially by name.
I think the underwhelming reaction to this bun fight on SFM is because by comparison, it is small scale with the corruption that has gone on in the past.
You mention a lack of illegality? The EBT payments went to the Supreme Court and were deemed to be unlawful. Why have the suits at Hampden not stripped these titles?
The award of European football to Rangers in 2011 was FRAUD!
As you know there is much more.
This current episode is small scale even if the reasons you give are perfectly worth looking into.
It’s only top of the back pages because of who the main complainer is.
Smugas, 1138
I believe it was to do with the right to participate in the transfer market.
Highlander,
i understand your concern. But in my own defence the issue around the vote smells badly. But my perception is it is not as in your face, outright, fully evidenced beyond all probability, wrong as some other issues, equally ignored, have been.
Calling the vote was wrong, period, but as others have said it was the question asked, not the result, where the principle fault lay. I’m also not entirely clear what set Dundee’s vote apart from the other abstainers. The ability to change a no to a yes is, I understand, acceptable in the 28 days allowed (which of course again calls into question the SPFLs unseemly readiness to call it as failed).
Similarly ref your second point it may well be “patently obvious” that pressure was brought to bear, but “patently obvious” simply isn’t enough I’m afraid.
And ref your third point – yes the formulation of the vote has subsequently been shown to be wrong. It is possible that there were ways to distribute some/all of the cash without calling the leagues first and I repeat my point of what seems like weeks ago that there was equally nothing to stop them splitting the issues of champions and relegation contenders just as they did leagues 1 from 2,3 and 4. It was complicated for sure, inevitably led to the reconstruction discussion but that’s equally no excuse to deliberately conflate the two issues and simply hope no-one noticed.
Returning to the cash disbursement everyone seems to agree that the clubs were told pre vote that it was the way outlined in the vote or no way. The accuracy of that is therefore their concern. Graeme Tatters and (sorry Stenny lad forgotton his name – Ian?) knew that on Saturday but that noticeably wasn’t their focus of concern. It doesn’t mean to say they weren’t concerned. It was to say, and Graeme said it several times, that there were other priorities to be considered first. The example they gave in response to the calling the leagues question Ie call it now or extend playing was, “(paraphrase) well on the 1st July I’ve no contracted players so it’s a bit of a moot point is it not.”
I can only echo what the show correspondents said in response. “…and that’s where you need true leadership.”
so, yes I’m concerned, I’m routinely suspicious anyway and I’m watching on with dismay that we continue to pay handsomely for such ineptitude. But I’d be lying if I didn’t say I’m sitting back watching all of them squirming in their own stench at the moment. And I’d equally be lying to say that relative to my passion for the game pre 2011 that I’m struggling to say I even care any more.
jimbo 28th April 2020 at 11:58
You mention a lack of illegality? The EBT payments went to the Supreme Court and were deemed to be unlawful. Why have the suits at Hampden not stripped these titles?
The award of European football to Rangers in 2011 was FRAUD
———————————————————–
Jimbo – I agree with you wholeheartedly that the suits should've stripped titles over illegal EBTs, but the football authorities failure to do so doesn't make their inaction illegal.
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough but I meant that the football authorities hadn't acted illegally (as far as we know), not that Rangers hadn't.
As for the 2011 UEFA licence issue constituting fraud, to my mind that is still only an opinion at this stage rather than an incontrovertible fact and I appreciate the SFA is deliberately stalling on it likely because of its own culpability.
I stand by the rest of what I said regardless of the inevitable barrage of thumbs down, on the basis that a soundly based complaint should be judged on the veracity of that complaint rather than who made it.
Smugas 28th April 2020 at 12:12
—————————–
I can't argue with most of that – I was simply pointing out that there would be uproar on here if the SPFL board had bludgeoned its way to its desired outcome in the manner it did if the vote had instead negatively affected Celtic.
Highlander
What I believe your earlier post highlights is the problem caused by having the simple thumbs-up and thumbs-down way of responding to comments.
When multiple points are raised, I would suggest, it is sometimes hard to decide which way to go.
Highlander 28th April 2020 at 11:25
Perhaps, as others have rightly pointed out, nothing illegal took place, but as far as we know nothing illegal took place in 2012, yet eight years later we still visit SFM daily to record our displeasure at those events.
……………..
If nothing illegal took place in 2012? there would be no need for a secret 5 way agreement, and if there was no secret 5 way agreement, eight years later we would not have to visit SFM daily.
Highlander 28th April 2020 at 11:25
15 24
I’m slightly bemused that the consensus view on here remains that the contentious actions of the SPFL board surrounding the recent vote barely registers a raised eyebrow amongst posters, far less condemnation, and that it is somehow considered an outrage that the AGM requisitioners should dare to try to hold the board to account for what at face value appears to have been deliberate deception allied to gerrymandering. I am especially surprised considering this forum’s noble intention of holding our football authorities accountable to the fans.
=================================
The thumbs up/down count will confirm you belief.
Posters on SFM are every bit as tribal when it comes to their own clubs and their closest rivals.
An interesting development today re the new West of Scotland Football League at tier 6 in the pyramid.
The SFA has been in touch with the Lowland League, who have in turn informed the clubs of the following change to what was originally planned, i.e. for all clubs to participate in Tier 6 conferences next seasons.
Going by tweets from people in the know, the SFA has been lobbied by just two clubs, Auchinleck and Pollok to retain the former West Region Super League club set up, despite the WOSFL being a brand new league.
So it seems that the influence of the two biggest clubs in a new league setup has much the same effect as that in the SPFL.
It is not clear who will make up the “17 team” top division, although most expect it to be this season’s 16 clubs from the WR Super league plus Bonnyton Thistle who is already at Tier 6 in the SOSFL. That being the case, then there is no “promotion” in the junior ranks, despite them having called the leagues and awarded third place Auchinleck the title on a PPG basis, although they still had 14 games to play.
It’s not the best start for the WOSFL when the SFA rides roughshod over agreements made between the LL and the 67 clubs who applied.
The pressure applied on other clubs, tantamount to bullying according to some, by SPFL executives during the voting process, including the disclosure to clubs of how other member clubs had voted.
………….
I have read elsewhere that a few clubs were late, by the deadline of 5 o’clock, one was the ibrox club, also have most clubs not came out and stated there was no bulling? maybe if there was bulling? it was to get their vote in by 5pm
…………
EDIT.
I’m slightly bemused that the consensus view on here remains that the contentious actions of the SPFL board surrounding the recent vote barely registers a raised eyebrow
……….
I myself stated who knew the rabid dog would come back to bite them,serves them right. or something to that effect.
With all these references to the Bard,
I just wonder what Billy Shakespeare would have written about the latest, Machiavellian manoeuvring in Scottish football…?
And this latest ‘demand’ by TRFC for a vote to have an SPFL investigation could be construed as a ‘vote of no confidence’ in the SPFL management…
whilst their very own MD, Stewart Robertson STILL remains on the SPFL Board.
Avataradam812 28th April 2020 at 12:56
An excellent point, Adam, and one of the reasons I choose never to give a thumb-down without having the decency to respond to the post I am thumb-downing. I am of the opinion, though clearly don't know it as fact, that a lot of thumb-downs are given when the point is not liked rather than that it holds, in the thumb-downer's opinion, no merit, and so they are unable to make a challenge that, itself, holds merit, or shows the original post to be wrong or just balls.
I personally like the TU/TD facility as it gives the poster an idea whether or not his post makes sense and/or is appreciated as holding merit by the blog. It has a negative effect, though, if TDs are not followed by a challenge/response and shows the blog up to be, at best, rather petty.
Smugas 28th April 2020 at 11:38
Can someone quickly remind me, what it was the three man (person?) panel was voting on that so attracted his cheeky chap pie ire.
……………
McCoist faces three counts of breaching disciplinary rules for calling into question the independence of the judicial panel that sat in April to hear a case against Rangers and their former owner Craig Whyte.
The Light Blues manager is also charged with “not acting in the best interests of Association Football” by calling for the panel members to be named in public.
Rangers were hit with a 12-month signing embargo and fined £160,000 after the hearing into the club’s financial affairs. Speaking the day after the verdict was delivered, McCoist told Rangers TV: “I found out the decision last night and I was shocked and absolutely appalled by the way this supposedly independent judicial panel was coming down on us in this form.
“Who are these people? I want to know who these people are.
……………….
https://twitter.com/ClusterOne2/status/1255114818614419456/photo/1
……..
Death threats because of McCoists actions.
sorry for late reply to your question.
Smugas 28th April 2020 at 12:12
===============================
I'm very much of a similar mind to you on all of this. Been highly scunnered with the lot of them for some time.
Scottish Football needs a reset.
Smugas 28th April 2020 at 11:38
…….
Forgot to add.
The club succeeded in their application for a judicial review at the Court of Session in Edinburgh as Lord Glennie backed their assertion that a Scottish Football Association judicial panel had exceeded its powers in administering the ban on registering players.
However, he proposed that the decision be referred back to an SFA appeal tribunal, which had upheld the decision that a transfer ban was appropriate punishment for a failure to pay more than £13million in tax last season.
The explicit punishments stated in the SFA’s rule 66 are a maximum £100,000 fine, suspension or expulsion from participation in the game, ejection from the Scottish Cup or termination of membership.
The independent three-man SFA disciplinary panel had considered ending Rangers’ membership, saying they viewed the offence second only to match-fixing in terms of seriousness, but decided a transfer ban was more appropriate
Having already administered the maximum fine, an SFA appeal would therefore only be entitled to throw them out of the Scottish Cup for a spell or else stop the club playing football altogether in Scotland.
…………
And after a lot of sabar rattling and noise (sound familiar?)
They agreed to the signing ban, and you can see why.
…………
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9298583/Rangers-risk-fresh-sanctions-after-wnning-transfer-embargo-ruling.html
From President Macron today
“La saison de football ne pourra pas reprendre. Les grandes manifestations sportives et culturelles ne pourront se tenir avant le mois de septembre.”
…… or
“The football season cannot resume. The major sporting and cultural events cannot be held before September. ”
That might cause a bit of a rethink by UEFA when one of their big 5 leagues is forced to abandon their plans to complete their leagues during the summer.