The Covid 19 Pandemic is a truly serious game-changing situation for us all.
We are all currently staring into a future with no declared road map exit of
how we might move back to normality and the certainty of disruption now and
long into the future.
Against the background of lockdown to curb the virus spread we have all run smack bang into economic and social chaos.
We have gone from normality into unheard of times virtually overnight and with horrendous economic consequences coming every which way into the future.
Football is not important in the greater scheme of things but still has issues that need attention and urgently because it affects people’s lives.
This Week’s SPFL Plan to Move On
The SPFL are simply the members association who run our leagues on a “for the members, by the members, for the members” kind of way in theory.
For reasons known to them they collectively took the decision to start to draw an end to season 2019 – 2020 with its Covid 19 uncertainty.
This was probably to allow them and all their members (our clubs) to at least
start to plan for the future when income streams will return.
From speaking to those involved from the club side and reading and hearing more at a truly astonishing pace since Wednesday 8th of April, just 3 day ago, the SPFL decided in their wisdom that the best solution was to conflate two particular issues.
To back their case quite forcibly they also provided a dossier of over 100 pages of supportive material. All good bedtime reading for our club’s boards I have been told, but i haven’t seen it.
The issues the SPFL decided to conflate were to ‘pro-rata’ all games played so far this season so they could equalise and close the Championship and Leagues 1 and 2, with the Premiership going the same way if it became clear that fixtures could not be completed.
If and only if the motion was agreed by the members then the end of season prize money would be forthcoming from the SPFL bank almost immediately.
Money desperately needed by some members. A real lifeline in troubled times.
There was also another possible wee carrot dangled.
This might have been of a sort of half-hearted agreement to look at re-organisation of Scottish Football. This because despite the dossier urging clubs to vote yes, the SPFL knew some clubs would not be happy with their proposals and would not agree.
In the Real World of Challenged and Stressed Football Clubs
The SPFL conflation of “do this or no money” meant things like.
The title would be handed to Celtic eventually if Premier Clubs then followed suit, despite Rangers having a mathematical, albeit statistically unlikely, chance of catching their rivals.
Hearts would be relegated despite having enough games to catch their nearest rivals and stay safe possibly by a play off (if they hadn’t already been cancelled).
Partick Thistle would be relegated because they failed to play one league game while playing another SPFL competition and also had a bunch of games left to save themselves.
Stranraer would go down despite being proven late season successful relegation fighters.
Brora (declared Highland Champions) and Kelty (current leaders in Lowland League, by a bawhair over Bonnyrigg) would have no play off with a likely game against Brechin or whoever was going to be bottom of the SPFL2 league.
And these are just the tip of what football chiefs I’ve spoken with have termed an ill-considered iceberg of matters arising from a hapless attempt to bring some certainty to the SPFL membership.
72 Hours of Mayhem as Peter was Played Against Paul
People are interconnected today and from the moment clubs were pushed into a corner they discussed it together and in depth.
They all know who voted how why and when and have WhatsApp records too.
They all feel they could have done it better. I can’t try to sum up the sheer enormity and quantity of what has happened since Wednesday night but after I had penned a piece for SFM on Friday with suggestions that there was a civil war brewing that is just indeed what happened.
Every club effectively had a moral and economic choice and sometimes they were conflicting.
Friday was too close to call
I was in a few communication loops sitting at home on Friday afternoon as the vote unfolded.
I had been warned how close it was going to be and it was fascinating with first Inverness seen as the potentially key vote then an acceptance just before 5 that the whole thing had failed.
Then, 5.30ish, a different and quite hopeful view came out that after the vote had been seen to have failed that a 14, 14, 14, compromised was likely. Sense seemed to be prevailing. Then later and very late in the day a view that 1 vote (Dundee) had still to come and was in effect now the casting vote with all the power that casting votes carry.
Since then we have first seen Dundee castigated in the press and by unthinking media pundits as the villains for holding everything up.
(But that’s now old news).
Today (Sat 11th April), ICT Chief Executive Scott Gardiner was on BBC Sportsound alongside Richard Gordon, Michael Stewart Tom English, Kenny Miller and later on Willie Miller. It wasn’t a normal filler show in a period with no football.
It was truly amazing with some hard facts and honest insights. Uncommonly so.
I should have been forewarned after one well know football finance insider had tweeted last night (Fri) ahead of the curve that “Dundee will have earned some concession and will now change their vote” or words to that effect.
Wow he was ahead of the tsunami that burst this afternoon. If you haven’t heard BBC Sportsound at 2 pm today then the first hour or so is unmissable.
Since then matters have gone on apace we have now heard that Douglas Park, interim Chairman of Rangers, wants the SPFL CEO Neil Doncaster and legal counsel Rod Mackenzie (Rangers links) to stand down ahead of an independent inquiry.
So less than a day after a yet to be agreed vote outcome and genuine internecine war is brewing and exploding with Mr Parks claiming he has damning information from a whistleblower.
In turn he has been asked by the current SPFL Chairman Murdoch MacLennan to substantiate his “very serious accusations”. .
So Who Scored the Own Goal and What Can We Do About It?
As of now I actually don’t care who did what and when.
Stuff has happened and in the fullness of time we can look at how it happened and what we can do to avoid it into the future.
Today we need to move forward and that needs leadership.
Here is a 5 point roadmap.
Ditch this divisive plan
It doesn’t matter how Dundee vote just consign all this crap to history.
Pay all the monies due
This week no strings and if that needs a vote then vote on that and that alone.
Agree what happens and how to end the season
Scottish Football Supporters Association say this must include no relegation and pyramid winners should be included. Don’t penalise anyone at this time.
And an interim plan would be fine of three leagues like nearly got agreed for 20 minutes on Friday.
Take time
End the season properly and fairly and plan for the future to reinvigorate our game for the greater good. The world has changed but we haven’t.
Involve all stakeholders especially the fans
This should all be on the record and transparent.
The Time To Stop The War is Now
I get that everyone (without exception) is both voting and reflecting self interest. Also that the SPFL board is set up to be a reflection of majority view of the clubs – not anything else. Still there's an absolute reflection of the limitations of the model thats showing. It is simply incapable of reaching a greater good outcome. Because it is inherently undemocratic and build around owner whims.
Jumbo
Rather than 3 up and 1 down there is another possible scenario to consider. Given previous comments ICT may not want to benefit in any way that harms other clubs so they may turn down promotion opening a spot for Dundee. If another club was to decide to try their luck in England, as many of their supporters are suggesting tonight, there might also be a place for Ayr United whilst allowing Hearts to stay where they are too.
In 2012 after a certain vote, fans of RFC (IL) threatened to boycott away games to financially cripple and with the aim of putting other football clubs out of business. Last week the board of Newco submitted a requisition to SFA for the release of monies to help all clubs in Scotland. Tonight fans of Newco are threatening to boycott away games to financially cripple and hopefully put clubs out of business. This was stated live on SSB by 2 fans and much more on twitter. So wtf is going on?, the board wanted to help and the fans want the opposite. I get the fans not wanting 9IAR but nothing has been decided yet as football may commence again and Newco have the chance of winning the league. Both of these events are highly unlikely to be honest. This out pour of hatred is not acceptable from this new club and a wee bit of deja vu would not go amiss. They are what they are and will never change, they are the scourge of our game..Please please boycott.
So, TRFC got the money to pay for the pre pack. Time to move on.
It is interesting to read so many Rangers fans on social media hoping/praying/Rangers should force 'as many clubs to the wall as possible now.' Sometimes in life you should definitely be careful what you wish for.
I also see many are now taking a stance against Anne Budge for accepting the offer of looking into league reconstruction.
If there has been bitterness and rancour since 2012 it is about to hit new levels I'm afraid.
In all the confusion of the last 12 hours does anyone know if Partick Thistle, having taken the time to get quite clear advice from a QC, have accepted that The SPFL rules can allow Dundee to change their vote as now seems to have happened.
If not do they, Thistle and indeed others still have the option of taking this to the courts?
Finloch 16th April 2020 at 07:36
In all the confusion of the last 12 hours does anyone know if Partick Thistle, having taken the time to get quite clear advice from a QC, have accepted that The SPFL rules can allow Dundee to change their vote as now seems to have happened.
If not do they, Thistle and indeed others still have the option of taking this to the courts?
=======================================
If they want to stop the process in its tracks then they will have to move to get an interdict today, as the clubs are due to get their money on Friday. If they wait until after the money is deposited is club accounts, seeking only to stop the relegations, then they may have difficulty in persuading a judge of what precisely the interdict is meant to achieve. given there would be tacit acceptance of some of the SPFL proposals “passed” by member clubs.
Their complaint is about the process by which the vote was carried out, covering before, during and after. I don’t think that you would have much grounds for complaint if you were then accepting the bits that you liked from that same vote.
IMO Partick’s aim should be to seek that the SPFL are prevented from implementing the results of that vote, in the hope of forcing a new vote on distributing cash without the dependency strings attached. Partick would then seek to negotiate with the SPFL Board in the same way as Dundee appears to have done about the other aspects of the proposals.
easyJambo 16th April 2020 at 08:01
IMO Partick’s aim should be to seek that the SPFL are prevented from implementing the results of that vote, in the hope of forcing a new vote on distributing cash without the dependency strings attached. Partick would then seek to negotiate with the SPFL Board in the same way as Dundee appears to have done about the other aspects of the proposals.
…………………………………………………………
Thanks EJ
I agree it is their only offensive option.
Doing nothing means relegation with only a very outside chance of structural change as I suspect the Budge and Gray Taskforce faces some blind-sighting, some cynicism and ultimately the usual long grass.
Homunculus 15th April 2020 at 21:38
……..
I use to love a curly-wurly.
Shrunk to half it’s original size now. I believe the mobile Text made no one care any more.
Budge and Gray trying to sort out league reconstruction is like turkeys getting a vote on Christmas!!
Whatever happens I hope at the end of all this there is some sort of reconstruction of our ruling bodies.
Nothing learned still a shambles
Here we go (hear we go) with the post SPFL whinging from SEVCO and its entourage- there will be many more, increasing in desperation over time I’m sure.
Constant Gardener McCoist was first out of the blocks today, follow followed by Steven Gerrard (self appointed expert on the running of Scottish football), using the same ‘marking you own homework’ analogy and wording as him (nothing if not coordinated), calling for an independent inquiry.
How about concentrating on trying to win a trophy first Stevie and less on boardroom and wider matters?
bect67 16th April 2020 at 11:09
Here we go (hear we go) with the post SPFL whinging from SEVCO and its entourage- there will be many more, increasing in desperation over time I’m sure. Constant Gardener McCoist was first out of the blocks today, follow followed by Steven Gerrard (self appointed expert on the running of Scottish football), using the same ‘marking you own homework’ analogy and wording as him (nothing if not coordinated), calling for an independent inquiry.
==================================
Serious allegations Bec. I think we should get Mason Pinsent to investigate.
Valentinesclown@00.24
The term “cognitive dissonance “ could have been specially coined to describe the supporters of all the clubs playing out of Ibrox. The continuing belligerence is a direct result of the dog whistling and media manipulation instigated by the different boards who have run all of the clubs based in Ibrox. There is a distinct parallel with the core of Donald Trump who were out in force in the Michigan state capital protesting against social distancing and the lockdown. The protesters were of course openly carrying firearms including AR 15’s. Presumably they were hoping to somehow get rid of the virus by shooting it.
Bill1903 16th April 2020 at 10:56
…
Whatever happens I hope at the end of all this there is some sort of reconstruction of our ruling bodies.
Nothing learned still a shambles.
======
And the paradox in Scottish football continues;
The 42 clubs have a typically strong connection with their community and fans, whose support keeps their clubs alive through thick and thin – and hopefully through this crisis. Clubs only survive on the goodwill of their fans.
This latest SPFL voting shambles doesn’t raise even an eyebrow for seasoned Internet Bampots, who have long since become desensitized to the Hampden incompetence / (alleged) corruption.
The last couple of weeks is just further validation that the SFA and SPFL organisations have a 100%, total disconnect with the supporters of the 42 senior clubs.
We are continually reminded that the SFA and SPFL bodies ARE the 42 clubs.
And yet, to paraphrase: those same 42 clubs are nothing without their fans.
As Hampden continues to take its eye off the ball, there is a real risk – IMO – that paying punters might drift away from the game anyway after the lockdown.
Now could be an opportune time for both the SFA and SPFL to drop their antipathy towards their paying customers – and urgently review their own positions WRT customer service, customer communication, customer feedback, continuous improvement, etc. (I know!).
That’s what ‘normal’ organisations would do…
StevieBC
I trust you are not suggesting a new role for a recently unemployed media colossus!
adam812 16th April 2020 at 11:51
'….I trust you are not suggesting a new role for a recently unemployed media colossus!'
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So abysmally poor has been 'football governance' PR for many a year that one could be forgiven for thinking that they had been using his exceedingly poor services for years!
I've viewed the TRFC Twitter clip where the 'Gers Gaffer was interviewed on Sky Sports News this morning. In it he is demanding an independent forensic investigator be hired to look into the alleged skulduggery of the SPFL this past week. Who put this 'forensic investigator' idea into the lad's head? Gerrard would not know the first thing about organising investigations or inquiries into such matters
Stevie's eyes kept shifting from side to side as if he had prompt notes scattered around his kitchen table. I wonder if one of them had 'mark own homework' scribbled on it?
I note Gerrard used the term 'up there in Scotland' and he was concerned at reports of the goings on 'up there'. I got the impression he was glad to be out of it and that he would not be using the return half of his ticket back to Glasgow anytime soon.
When Sky are granted the opportunity of interviewing Liverpool FC's famous son at this moment in time and to a UK wide audience, surely the first and most burning question would be "Do you think Liverpool FC should now be awarded the Premier League title?" Of course, that would open the can of worms and possibly lead to a similar question being asked of him in respect of the situation north of the border.
Ok, I’m harping on a bit but I blame the cabin fever.
The SMSM is now reporting that Fraser Wishart of the PFA has indicated that the players have no objections to playing the outstanding SPL games behind closed doors. Most fans would prefer the full league card to be completed – if at all possible.
But, my moan…
So…
we have the SFA and SPFL dealing with this crisis via extensive communications with the 42 clubs, the TV companies, sponsors, the government, the SMSM, and now the players.
…but not a peep about the most important stakeholders: the supporters!
I am not a ST holder, but what about those who are ST holders and haven’t missed a home game for X years? In addition to SPL games they may have never missed a cup or European home tie either for X years.
Yet, the out of touch blazers are going to decide whether or not games can be played – whilst barring those long term supporters who put their hard earned money into the game – every season?
I’m not saying that the games should or should not be played behind closed doors.
I just find it breathtakingly arrogant – even for Hampden – to make unprecedented decisions without even attempting to engage meaningfully with the supporters – to find out what they think could/should be done.
Billy Boyce, yes it’s the obvious question! I wonder why they didn’t ask it? It’s what everybody is wondering about regarding SG. A wee bit like Barry Ferguson, to a lesser degree, winning an unfinished league with Kelty. I bet Barry is content that their league wasn’t a null & void case!
Billy Boyce 16th April 2020 at 14:21
'..he is demanding an independent forensic investigator be hired to look into the alleged skulduggery of the SPFL this past week.'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""
If he broadened that to include the forensic investigation into the SFA /Rangers FC of 1872 'relationship' in the matter of UEFA licence awards, and the manufacturing in 2012 of the biggest and most absurd lie in football sports history, that would put him on the side of the angels, Billy Boyce.
As it is, he's just making a bigger ars. of himself than he already demonstrated himself to be by being conned into working for a serially lying club and buying the ridiculous PR hype churned out by self-prostituting 'journalists'.
He will in the end , whatever tainted shekel he receives, he will get no thanks from anyone at Ibrox.
And nothing but contempt from me for debasing himself.
Billy Boyce 16th April 2020 at 14:21
=============================
Put Stevie "Let's Go" G under a bit of pressure by asking him the most obvious question, and the one the majority of the Sky viewing audience would be interested in.
What a ridiculous suggestion. How dare you, Sir.
You'll be suggesting that question was banned in advance of the "interview", next and that it was all stage managed. Rather than being an open, frank, ask what you want, hard hitting interview.
Anyway, I won't be making any comment until the subtitles have been released as well. I want to make sure what was reported is a fair and honest reflection on what he said.
Homunculus
Thistle will not be taking legal action
https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/partick-thistle-fc-board-update-16th-april-2020/
Partick Thistle FC Board update – 16th April 2020
Thursday 16th April, 2020 at 3:26pm
To be relegated at any time in a club’s life is, in a sporting context, an enormous setback. You accept your fate, because it was in your hands to change the outcome.
However, to be relegated in the arbitrary and unjust way we are currently experiencing, with no say in it, is heartbreaking for everyone at Partick Thistle, including staff and players and especially our fans.
We advised the SPFL on Tuesday of the joint counsel’s Opinion we had sought in relation to the validity – or not – of the Dundee FC vote cast last Friday.
To be clear, we did not threaten litigation, we sought clarity on the legal points raised.
We still regard this as a strong legal Opinion that raises significant issues around the whole process of the vote and related matters. Having taken further legal advice, we have been advised that we have the option to take this before a court. Instinctively, injustice demands reparation.
However, as a Club, the decision to relegate Thistle is first and foremost about our people and what this might mean for them. To pursue court action costs money and considerable time – so we have had to consider carefully whether both could be better spent on securing the Club’s future and protecting the livelihoods of those we employ. In deciding what our next steps should be, that was our first priority.
Thistle has always lived in the real world so we also looked at the bigger picture of the life-changing pandemic we find ourselves in. The resulting lockdown is challenging the very existence of some clubs. If we were to take this action to court, there is a risk that might stop the release of much-needed monies to those clubs on Friday.
That’s a step too far for us. Regardless of what’s been inflicted on Thistle, we can’t be responsible for pushing even one club to the brink. It would be hypocritical of us to have espoused “do no harm” as a reason why we shouldn’t be relegated and then do exactly that.
Taking all of that into account, although we stand by the legal Opinion, the Board has agreed that we will not seek “further remedy” against the SPFL in order to overturn the Resolution. Although we remain at a loss to understand why a decision was taken – at a time when Governments are seeking to support jobs across sectors – that will cause significant damage to Thistle and others.
Instead, we will focus our efforts and monies on Thistle and look forward, not back. That includes making a positive contribution to the discussions on possible changes to the league structures.
We aren’t looking for sympathy, we don’t need it. We are a well-run, debt-free club with a proud history of rolling with the punches. We may be down but we are not out. When football returns, we will be here, ready to play, regardless of the league we are in.
To our fans, we hope you understand why we have reached this decision. No one should regard this as a sign of weakness – it shows our strength and resolution to get through this despite relegation being forced on us. We aren’t doing what’s easy but we are doing what is right for our Club, our people and for clubs across Scotland. We are grateful for your solid support and encouragement – and when next we meet at Firhill, it will be to start the fightback to right this wrong.
Well done Partick Thistle! It appears to be a well considered statement with decisions made truly for the good of Scottish football. Hopefully reconstruction talks will lead to a positive outcome for all those who face relegation.
I notice much talk about how games can be played given social distancing rules.
If the time comes when it is possible to get two teams on the park why not look at the average gates of previous meetings and then play games at larger stadiums where social distancing can be accommodated on the terraces and queuing systems as per shops and the like can operate for turnstiles and toilets.
Hampdum is sitting doing hee haw for most of the time so smaller teams/matches could play there no bother and fans who wanted to attend would have plenty room.
Celtic Park and Ibrox could accommodate most ‘west coast games’ and Tynie and Easter Road, east coast games. Local centres like East End Park could deal with Fife and the Dundee clubs and Aberdeen deal with the North – East.
A bit mad but just a thought!!!
For long enough, this site has looked to find a way to improve governance of Scottish football with the usual mechanism being a clear-out of those in power. Although undoubtedly not a Celtic site, the balance of numbers here (and the apparent evidence of decisions supporting Rangers and TRFC) has led to a mindset that the powers that be are biased toward the Ibrox clubs. With the decisions this week, many – if not all – TRFC fans are also looking to clear out those in charge at the SPFL (not sure if they have a current view on the SFA, who are at a distance to the end of season decision).
With ALL fans apparently now looking for change, is there a way this can be effected? Is it at all possible for it to be effected in a way that all sides accept?
Accepting that there is a groundswell for a clear out, I'm not sure what the current structure/situation would be replaced with. It's a members organisation so all clubs have apparent equal input/voice, but we know that's not the case in reality. The members get to vote on a board to represent them but that board still has to do what the members want. How would that be changed for the better?
Obviously, things like local FFP; better league structures; strict liability etc could be useful additions, but it might take independent governance authorities to implement those rather than the (potentially) self-interested clubs. Is it feasible that someone outwith the clubs run the game?
If the groundswell becomes a tidal wave that does clear the decks, what would a workable structure look like? I ask, realising that ANY change is unlikely, while also realising that other countries have similar structures already, so maybe this is the best option there is. It just doesn't feel like it, with the problems we see here; the 'problems' caused by money in the EPL; the problems all leagues have with UEFA, FIFA etc.
Can we have some kind of non-partisan petition created along the line of "Scottish Football fans have no confidence in the governance of the sport by the SFA and SPFL."?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Homunculus 16th April 2020 at 15:15
Anyway, I won’t be making any comment until the subtitles have been released as well. I want to make sure what was reported is a fair and honest reflection on what he said.
……………….
https://twitter.com/lookingthinking/status/1250760902862876672/photo/1
……
They may have learned their lesson with the subtitles (and anything with the word Title in it is a bad word down ibrox way)
Why bother with subtitles when a recorded interview can be edited.
redlichtie 16th April 2020 at 16:56
If you post a link when you set it up I'm sure a lot of people here would be interested in signing that, and even sharing it about.
New podcast with David Low on the SPFL and the future for the game.
Doing another one tomorrow with Andrew Smith, Chairman of the Scottish Football Fans Association, author of the current blog.
“The SPFL looks an absolute mess”SG
…..
So;-) that could be both Mr Park and Mr Gerrard up before the governing bodies for bringing the game into Disrepute.
Park D'Bus has went awfy quiet considering he has all that evidence of corruption. He is in a difficult spot now. Do nothing, and he will be viewed by the fans as weak and cowardly. A liar even.
Worse still, a realisation may dawn that he is just another one, in a long line of shyster "businessmen" taking advantage of their gulli…..errrrrr, Loyalty and love for the club. He wouldn't want that notion to take hold, by those he needs to sell tickets to. Not the sort of guy anybody would choose to buy a used car from.
I suggest he has to come out all guns blazing, and slap his evidence on the table. …….Take the SPFL the full road.
Otherwise he is done……..Then what for Sevco?
BP – Just started listening to the latest podcast. Just to correct your introduction piece. There are not 48 clubs in the SPFL (12 x 4), at least not yet.
Is there a means of accessing previous podcasts? I can’t find any link to them from the menus so that you can flip in and out of then without interfering with posting on blogs.
That was a very good and effective statement by Partick Thistle. It makes its points well, uses matters of fact calmly, makes no offensive, blustering, threatening vengeful utterances, and thus holds the moral high ground while eliciting genuine sympathy and a recognition of the unfairness, when others might have been reasonably prevailed upon to work harder for a more equitable arrangement.
Top marks to the drafter.
Had he been employed by King and permitted editorial freedom, , the absurd nonsense that came from both King and JT would have been avoided.
easyJambo 16th April 2020 at 18:20
Is there a means of accessing previous podcasts? I can’t find any link to them from the menus so that you can flip in and out of then without interfering with posting on blogs.
If you are logged in then you can open a second SFM page in a new tab. you can use one tab to fillow the threads and the other to listen to the podcasts,
Corrupt official 16th April 2020 at 18:19
Statement O'Clock
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/supporters-update
Thursday, 16 April 2020, 19:00
by Rangers Football Club
The most important issue facing all of us at this time is the Covid-19 pandemic and the Board of Rangers sincerely hope all of our fans and their families are staying safe and healthy. Hopefully we will all be back supporting our team as soon as possible.
However, given events of the past week, we feel we should make comment on the SPFL resolution vote. No fair minded person can take the outcome of this vote seriously. The SPFL has conducted a process which has been misleading and deeply flawed.
In particular, publishing the outcome prior to all clubs having voted has undermined the democratic process and demonstrated unacceptable standards of corporate governance by the SPFL Executive.
We are extremely concerned that member clubs were not provided with enough information, or time, to allow them to make fully informed decisions.
Also, we are aware several club directors claimed they were being bullied at a time when Scottish football should have been acting in unity to alleviate the financial hardship of many of our clubs. Addressing the latter was one of our primary objectives and the resolution we presented could and should have been progressed.
The SPFL chose to obstruct our resolution which would have given clubs the required financial support, without the pre-condition of ending the season. The fact that this solution was not afforded sufficient consideration defies belief and further underlines the view held by many clubs that the processes and behaviours of certain individuals must now be the subject of forensic examination.
For our part, Douglas Park has already requested an independent investigation into the conduct of the executive. The SPFL appear to have acknowledged the need for an internal investigation – but only an independent investigation will provide satisfactory, credible answers. We repeat our call for the immediate suspension of Neil Doncaster and Rod McKenzie pending the outcome of the independent investigation.
It is imperative that constructive engagement begins immediately with members to evaluate all options for completing the 2019/20 Premiership season, including on the field of play. The SPFL must allow every opportunity to do so. There is precedent within Scottish football that a league must not be compromised by changing the rules during the course of the competition.
The anger of our fans is understood and shared by our Board, who continue to examine all legal options available.
Another revisionist statement from Dundee.
https://dundeefc.co.uk/news/club-statement-27/
"By way of further explanation of our statement from 15 April, Dundee FC submitted its vote to the SPFL and issued its statement simultaneously. There was no changing of our vote at any time that day as has been reported in some channels."
If I've got that right, he is claiming Dundee never voted to reject the resolution.
From my recollection they did submit a vote, which they then retracted by asking the SPFL to ignore it. I must have imagined it. Must be an age thing.
John Clark 16th April 2020 at 18:52
Their Chief Executive is a lawyer and a former player.
If he didn't have any part in writing I would have thought at the very least he approved it's release.
bigboab1916 16th April 2020 at 19:13
If you are logged in then you can open a second SFM page in a new tab. you can use one tab to fillow the threads and the other to listen to the podcasts,
===================================
That's what I've ended up doing, but its a clumsy way of doing it and it doesn't resolve the issue of being able to access previous podcasts. It would be easier if there was a means of opening the podcast in a new tab.
easyJambo 16th April 2020 at 19:22 That's what I've ended up doing, but its a clumsy way of doing it and it doesn't resolve the issue of being able to access previous podcasts. It would be easier if there was a means of opening the podcast in a new tab.
Do you mean like playing this in like say a windows media player or something else without having two tabs open?
easyJambo 16th April 2020 at 19:22
bigboab1916 16th April 2020 at 19:33
Further to my previous post, it is possible to download the podcast as an MP3 file using the icon in the top right corner and play it on your media player.
Homunculus 16th April 2020 at 19:18
Corrupt official 16th April 2020 at 18:19
Statement O’Clock
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/supporters-update
Thursday, 16 April 2020, 19:00
by Rangers Football Club
So, the TRFC board are now falling in line with their manager’s earlier demands today for a full ‘forensic investigation’. They have even ‘borrowed’ his phraseology. The same board are being rather clever here in not revealing or even mentioning the damning evidence they hold, courtesy of that pesky whistle-blower.
Should the SPFL alleged villains resist such a move then who exactly will have the power to enforce this investigation – the Courts or a lynch mob heading for Hampden?
Homunculus 16th April 2020 at 19:21
'.Their Chief Executive is a lawyer and a former player..
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Even more plaudits to the drafter/vetter if he is a lawyer: the statement is singularly free from lawyer language!
Mind you, the reference to the expense of litigation might suggest a lawyer-like practical experience!
Both Park and Gerard have demanded a criminal investigation of the SPFL although they used the synonym forensic. Perhaps another example of using big words to add spurious gravitas without quite understanding what they mean?
Or a meringue?
Homunculus 16th April 2020 at 19:18
Corrupt official 16th April 2020 at 18:19
Statement O'Clock
https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/supporters-update
=========================================
Cheers H. To my reading that appears to be just a holding statement, with which to continue cage rattling with. The SPFL have already told them where to put their demands for an independent investigation. They have asked for the evidence he claims to have.
Without producing evidence, they have not furthered their case in any way. Nice and noisy though. Just the way they like it.
40 minutes after my post?…Think they've been reading?.
The EPL is having problems with regards the end if season decision too!
Premier League clubs at loggerheads over June plan to end virus-hit season
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/16/premier-league-clubs-at-loggerheads-over-june-plan-to-end-virus-hit-season?CMP=Share
I'm way behind with the blog and much water has snuck under the bridge since my last visit.
So, I have nothing to add to the topic de jour, but I do share the annoyance of the use of "So" that prefaces many responses.
Another one that gets me, is the oft used footballers' post match responses, e.g.
INTERVIEWER
" Jamie, you had a great game today and your third goal was special. You must be pleased with that.
JAMIE,
Yes, no, I thought it was a great team performance, etc.
Nice of them to wish their own fans and their families well – very insular . And it does indeed look like there was no pea in the whistle . They should be running out of toys soon .
Did I miss the SFA compliance officer issuing the results of the investigation into Rangers* application for a licence to play in Europe in 2011/12?
I believe that we are only a couple of months away from the second anniversary of the start of the investigation.
Might as well do something useful whilst we have this ongoing hiatus in football activities…..
Scottish Football needs a strong SFA compliance officer.
Billy Boyce 16th April 2020 at 19:39
Sorry Billy. I never got to your post before replying to H.
Before it gets to any courts, any evidence will have to be put before the PF by plod, for the departments consideration. As for the lynch mob……There is a lock-down, although they do like a wee dander to Hampden when it is shut.
Not much point in going when it is open right enough, as there might be a game on which doesn't require their presence.
Nah. I'm afraid its put up, or shut up, for them. Without credibility they are a busted flush.
Corrupt official 16th April 2020 at 20:10
Maybe they shouldn't have tried to bluff with that busted flush.
It's never good to bluff in a half arsed way. Go for it or don't.
redlichtie 16th April 2020 at 19:58
Along with the result of that investigation , the authorities could also release the results of their investigation into the propriety of having Alastair Johnston as a director . Roll them all together and include them in the independent enquiry , along with anything else that is causing grief . Nobody would object to that , would they ?
Here's a good one from the Bears Den….
"There is no doubt whatsoever that the SPFL are corrupt as f*** that's why they will never agree to an independent enquiry as it will expose them as what they are and more. How do us as a club force this enquiry?"
"I do think we we will get the independent with them planting the guy doing the investigation . i'm going with Lord Nimmo or Carloway or some other b*east protector"
My bold for irony emphasis!
99% of them seem very angry with their board for claiming to have evidence that could bring down the SPFL with the latest statement being interpreted as an indication that they have no evidence other than the Whatsapp images and accusations of bullying….
"Sounds like the start of a climb down PR piece from us. New PR guys has come in and tried to make a name for himself and completely f***ed it. Absolutely no mention of a whistleblower, which pretty much confirms it was the leaked WhatsApp messages, and is now a damp squib. Basically now begging for an independent investigation and saying they might look into the legalities. Absolutely f*** all is coming from this and we are probably now in a weaker position than we ever have been."
"Yeah, after that statement I totally agree with this. I don't even mind that we've never had anything. If we dont have something then we dont have it. But for us to make a play like this, as if we have a strong hand and are going to war, on the strength of what looks to be nothing, is an absolutely disastrous decision and an embarrassment. We've humiliated ourselves here."
ThomTheThim 16th April 2020 at 19:55
'..Another one that gets me, is the oft used footballers' post match responses, e.g.'
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I wouldn't myself be too critical of people whose everyday work doesn't involve speaking into microphones answering stoopid questions from folk who have already answered the question : as in "That was a close game, Jason: it must have felt great scoring the winner with that brilliant penalty in the last minute, sure it must?"
[ eh, btw, what's with the 'snuck' ?
]
paddy malarkey 16th April 2020 at 20:16
redlichtie 16th April 2020 at 19:58
Along with the result of that investigation , the authorities could also release the results of their investigation into the propriety of having Alastair Johnston as a director . Roll them all together and include them in the independent enquiry , along with anything else that is causing grief . Nobody would object to that , would they ?
========================
Too much?…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExT6l4_euLI
I’ve now finished listening to the podcast. Normally, there is little I would disagree with when David offers his opinions, but I certainly do not share his views on what happened over the last week, as expressed in the first half of the podcast.
When he moved onto the future financial implications for clubs going forward during the second half of the podcast, we were back in sync.
Regarding the past week’s events, I found his views condescending, dismissive and lacking empathy with any club that voted against the resolution. Let’s take some of his quotes.
He opened with a statement that what we were all facing was “a human tragedy and financial meltdown”, which I think we can all align with as the backdrop to the situation that Scottish Football finds itself along with every other activity in the country. With that in mind ……….
He then went on to describe the no voting championship sides as an “overspending cartel or concert party”. There was no reference to “yes” voting clubs who also routinely overspend.
“There were always going to be casualties” – Beyond the shared pain that all clubs are suffering at the moment, there didn’t have to be.
On the SPFL’s conduct and accusations of bullying – “The SPFL took advice” …… “It’s normal to politik” and likened it to a “three line whip” – So he is saying that it was ok for the SPFL to pressurise clubs to vote “yes”, but not for the dissenters to canvass other like minded clubs.
“What’s particularly objectionable” ……… (names four clubs) ……… “is the faux pretend concern for the welfare of others” ………. “The faux concern is objectionable” – That’s pretty strong language to use. Perhaps those clubs did have self interest at heart, or perhaps they did have genuine concerns, but did the “yes” voters not exhibit the same self interest?
On the immediate reconstruction he describes it as “moving the deckchairs” and asks “what clubs are going to be around?” ……… “How do you accommodate all the games in a constricted period of time”
“There has to be reconstruction going forward.” – I think this referred to a more medium term aim depending on how things played out.
Then back to the impact on relegated clubs
“no one size fits all solution” ………….. “they just happened to be at the bottom of the league” ………. “the tail can’t wag the dog” ………. “It’s the betterment of the league, the sustenance of the league is the most important thing of all” ……. “very unfortunate for the teams at the bottom.” ……… “That’s the way it is” ……. “Life’s not fair.” – In other words “tough”.
The above is David’s opinion, which he is entitled to have and share, but I strongly disagree with it.
In the second half of the podcast David rightly highlighted the challenges facing clubs over the next 12 months re reduced income, contract situations, squad sizes, wage bills etc. On that we are agreed.
easyJambo 16th April 2020 at 20:36
==========
Respectfully disagreeing and being able to eloquently put over your own view is one of the real plus points of this forum.
Did Mr Low genuinely expect Thistle to vote to get relegated rather than play out the fixtures ? All clubs voted on selfish lines . Luckily for some , they ended up being on the right side of the decision as to what's best for Scottish football . And I hardly think we overspend , unlike some Premiership clubs who can buy a player for an alleged £7 million whilst relying on loans from directors and other sharks to give them a chance of finishing the season . Hey ho ! Maybe we'll win a lot more games next season ( said that last year as well !).
easyJambo 16th April 2020 at 20:36
'…The above is David’s opinion, which he is entitled to have and share, but I strongly disagree with it.'
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I was left a little bit disturbed by the, in my opinion, unwarrantedly dismissive tone that David Low adopted. I made reference the other day to SDM's 'business is business' statement as being in itself justification for ( at the time, a supposedly wealthy club) screwing another club.
Low's attitude reminded me of that, in that he makes no allowance for the extra-ordinary circumstances occasioned by Covid-19, when even a Tory government has acted against every hitherto cherished Tory principle of political economy in order to keep people alive.
A bit disappointing, really, at a time when an attitude of constructive helpfulness is called for in relation to parties innocent of any moral blame for the difficulties they face.
I note that TRFC are demanding the right to finish the season on the pitch , a day after voting to deny us that same right . What are they like ?!
paddy malarkey 16th April 2020 at 21:24
I note that TRFC are demanding the right to finish the season on the pitch , a day after voting to deny us that same right . What are they like ?!
——————————
They're like……Pitchless !
Re SEVCO latest Statement o’ Clock …
I freely admit that my contributions to this blog (the fairest, most even handed and best – I don’t contribute to any others) is very Celtic centric.
One of the aspects which attracted me, from back in the RTC days before HMRC effectively liquidated Rangers (1872 – 2012) was that it afforded me freedom of expression outside the usual partisan sites – respecting all contributors. The objectivity, humour, good natured ‘banter’ and absence of vitriol are its usps.
A lot of the SFM community seem to be of the opinion that SEVCO is ‘throwing the toys out of the pram’, and becoming ever more upset when people don’t dance to its tune. Accordingly, the utterances from the relatively new club are becoming more irrational (witness the complaint they have levied against McLennan) and disjointed.
However, I have learned, over the years, to regard their WATPism (!?) in a light hearted way (good for my soul you see) so I offer this as a response to the latest drivel:-
“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake” (Napoleon or was it Peter Lawell?)
Basically, in other words, when you notice he is screwing up, be kind enough to allow them to fully complete their error(sorry about the split infinitive).
Looking forward, with relish, to their next ‘threats’
Corrupt official 16th April 2020 at 21:43
They're like……Pitchless !
==============================
Pitchless….. and potless.
2P or not 2P. WATP!
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
The TRFC statement was as predictable as it was expected and as was stated in an earlier post it reads like a holding statement which adds nothing to previous utterances. The cards have been played and they’ve got nothing but unlike Cool Hand Luke, nothing in this case is not a cool hand.
redlichtie 16th April 2020 at 22:41
Corrupt official 16th April 2020 at 21:43 They're like……Pitchless !
==============================
Pitchless….. and potless.
2P or not 2P. WATP! …
=======
Or, they don't have a pitch to p!ss on?
As regards the new Ibrox Chairman's rather unimpressive contributions recently…
IMO, it could indicate that he is not at all close to the action around Ibrox. He could be otherwise preoccupied with trying to save his main business?
Mibbees his new 'PR expert' and others just quickly got Park's ok to issue statements/allegations/demands – without Park taking the time to review in detail and consider potential repercussions?
If Park thinks that RIFC/TRFC is a lost cause, then he would quite rightly focus all his time and attention on those businesses/investments he had a chance of saving, IMO.
The TRFC statement and the fans jumped on the bandwagon boycots, We have all seen this movie before and it ends the same as the last movie. The investigations… yes we have seen that before.
The boycots… yes we have seen this before.
The call for the governors of the games heads… yes we have seen this before.
The calls to radio stations with the cries of injustice… yes we have seen all this before.
The finger of blame pointing outwards instead of inwards… yes we have seen all this before.
Only difference this time is they are not on the pitch getting a good leathering.
EJ
Podcast.sfm.scot
J
Big Pink 16th April 2020 at 23:21
EJ
Podcast.sfm.scot
J
=======================
Gotcha
Thanks
ThomTheTim
Aye naw, it’s a pain intit?
EJ
The nature of David Low’s defence of the SPFL was always likely to be contentious on here. For balance, Andy Smith of the SFFA will need putting his side of things on the podcast tomorrow.
JC,
It must have snuck in there when I wasn't looking.
That ThomTheTims a right wee so-and so
Big Pink 16th April 2020 at 23:55
EJ
The nature of David Low’s defence of the SPFL was always likely to be contentious on here. For balance, Andy Smith of the SFFA will need putting his side of things on the podcast tomorrow.
=======================================
I fully expected David to express those views based on what he had tweeted over the last week or so, but I think that it is fair to subject what he said to some scrutiny.
Similarly, I'd expect anyone who disagrees with any of Andy's views expressed in the later podcast to do so.
We know from experience that every word uttered on behalf of clubs, or by the MSM, is dissected to the nth degree, on blogs and message boards across the country.
Re the demands for an independent investigation into the SPFL by both Rangers and their Manager.
I for one would have welcomed an independent investigation into this organisation some time ago, but the very fact Rangers and their media pals want to cherry pick when to have one tells us just how difficult it would be be for such a thing to happen.
The Nimmo Smith investigation years ago was 'Independent' but clearly had a Terms of Reference drafted with a desire outcome in mind, with Rangers huge benefactors of the gerrymandering. As such, are Rangers wanting an investigation that has a pre-determined outcome, and if they were being honest, an outcome that says Celtic can't be awarded the league and ergo nine in a row? Let's face it, that's what it's all about.
I don't believe there is a Rangers fan who genuinely cares that much whether Hearts, Partick or whoever are relegated. After all, there are many of them who are hoping several Scottish clubs go to the wall, completely ignoring the fact their club is as much, if not more at risk than others.
As for the legal threats in their latest statement. Empty barrels make the most noise is the first phrase that comes to mind.
If Parkie permitted Peter a pitch to piss on did Peter pick the park that prickly Parkie picked?
or something.