The Covid 19 Pandemic is a truly serious game-changing situation for us all.
We are all currently staring into a future with no declared road map exit of
how we might move back to normality and the certainty of disruption now and
long into the future.
Against the background of lockdown to curb the virus spread we have all run smack bang into economic and social chaos.
We have gone from normality into unheard of times virtually overnight and with horrendous economic consequences coming every which way into the future.
Football is not important in the greater scheme of things but still has issues that need attention and urgently because it affects people’s lives.
This Week’s SPFL Plan to Move On
The SPFL are simply the members association who run our leagues on a “for the members, by the members, for the members” kind of way in theory.
For reasons known to them they collectively took the decision to start to draw an end to season 2019 – 2020 with its Covid 19 uncertainty.
This was probably to allow them and all their members (our clubs) to at least
start to plan for the future when income streams will return.
From speaking to those involved from the club side and reading and hearing more at a truly astonishing pace since Wednesday 8th of April, just 3 day ago, the SPFL decided in their wisdom that the best solution was to conflate two particular issues.
To back their case quite forcibly they also provided a dossier of over 100 pages of supportive material. All good bedtime reading for our club’s boards I have been told, but i haven’t seen it.
The issues the SPFL decided to conflate were to ‘pro-rata’ all games played so far this season so they could equalise and close the Championship and Leagues 1 and 2, with the Premiership going the same way if it became clear that fixtures could not be completed.
If and only if the motion was agreed by the members then the end of season prize money would be forthcoming from the SPFL bank almost immediately.
Money desperately needed by some members. A real lifeline in troubled times.
There was also another possible wee carrot dangled.
This might have been of a sort of half-hearted agreement to look at re-organisation of Scottish Football. This because despite the dossier urging clubs to vote yes, the SPFL knew some clubs would not be happy with their proposals and would not agree.
In the Real World of Challenged and Stressed Football Clubs
The SPFL conflation of “do this or no money” meant things like.
The title would be handed to Celtic eventually if Premier Clubs then followed suit, despite Rangers having a mathematical, albeit statistically unlikely, chance of catching their rivals.
Hearts would be relegated despite having enough games to catch their nearest rivals and stay safe possibly by a play off (if they hadn’t already been cancelled).
Partick Thistle would be relegated because they failed to play one league game while playing another SPFL competition and also had a bunch of games left to save themselves.
Stranraer would go down despite being proven late season successful relegation fighters.
Brora (declared Highland Champions) and Kelty (current leaders in Lowland League, by a bawhair over Bonnyrigg) would have no play off with a likely game against Brechin or whoever was going to be bottom of the SPFL2 league.
And these are just the tip of what football chiefs I’ve spoken with have termed an ill-considered iceberg of matters arising from a hapless attempt to bring some certainty to the SPFL membership.
72 Hours of Mayhem as Peter was Played Against Paul
People are interconnected today and from the moment clubs were pushed into a corner they discussed it together and in depth.
They all know who voted how why and when and have WhatsApp records too.
They all feel they could have done it better. I can’t try to sum up the sheer enormity and quantity of what has happened since Wednesday night but after I had penned a piece for SFM on Friday with suggestions that there was a civil war brewing that is just indeed what happened.
Every club effectively had a moral and economic choice and sometimes they were conflicting.
Friday was too close to call
I was in a few communication loops sitting at home on Friday afternoon as the vote unfolded.
I had been warned how close it was going to be and it was fascinating with first Inverness seen as the potentially key vote then an acceptance just before 5 that the whole thing had failed.
Then, 5.30ish, a different and quite hopeful view came out that after the vote had been seen to have failed that a 14, 14, 14, compromised was likely. Sense seemed to be prevailing. Then later and very late in the day a view that 1 vote (Dundee) had still to come and was in effect now the casting vote with all the power that casting votes carry.
Since then we have first seen Dundee castigated in the press and by unthinking media pundits as the villains for holding everything up.
(But that’s now old news).
Today (Sat 11th April), ICT Chief Executive Scott Gardiner was on BBC Sportsound alongside Richard Gordon, Michael Stewart Tom English, Kenny Miller and later on Willie Miller. It wasn’t a normal filler show in a period with no football.
It was truly amazing with some hard facts and honest insights. Uncommonly so.
I should have been forewarned after one well know football finance insider had tweeted last night (Fri) ahead of the curve that “Dundee will have earned some concession and will now change their vote” or words to that effect.
Wow he was ahead of the tsunami that burst this afternoon. If you haven’t heard BBC Sportsound at 2 pm today then the first hour or so is unmissable.
Since then matters have gone on apace we have now heard that Douglas Park, interim Chairman of Rangers, wants the SPFL CEO Neil Doncaster and legal counsel Rod Mackenzie (Rangers links) to stand down ahead of an independent inquiry.
So less than a day after a yet to be agreed vote outcome and genuine internecine war is brewing and exploding with Mr Parks claiming he has damning information from a whistleblower.
In turn he has been asked by the current SPFL Chairman Murdoch MacLennan to substantiate his “very serious accusations”. .
So Who Scored the Own Goal and What Can We Do About It?
As of now I actually don’t care who did what and when.
Stuff has happened and in the fullness of time we can look at how it happened and what we can do to avoid it into the future.
Today we need to move forward and that needs leadership.
Here is a 5 point roadmap.
Ditch this divisive plan
It doesn’t matter how Dundee vote just consign all this crap to history.
Pay all the monies due
This week no strings and if that needs a vote then vote on that and that alone.
Agree what happens and how to end the season
Scottish Football Supporters Association say this must include no relegation and pyramid winners should be included. Don’t penalise anyone at this time.
And an interim plan would be fine of three leagues like nearly got agreed for 20 minutes on Friday.
Take time
End the season properly and fairly and plan for the future to reinvigorate our game for the greater good. The world has changed but we haven’t.
Involve all stakeholders especially the fans
This should all be on the record and transparent.
The Time To Stop The War is Now
Not listened to the podcast yet partially because like Easyjambo I found David Low's tweets and contribution to the SPFL resolution debacle somewhat unhelpful, dismissive, condescending and patronising .
It all seemed a wee bit out of character. Perhaps the lock down is getting to us all.
Useful tool to help government track virus.
Help slow the spread of #COVID19 and identify at risk cases sooner by self-reporting your symptoms daily, even if you feel well ?. Download the app https://covid.joinzoe.com/
My hope after the effects of Covid-19 have lessened is that society can be rearranged to work for more of the population than was previously the case. That the people elected to make these decisions will take a humane approach to the situation and not get by on idiotic populism and naked ambition. Don’t hide behind a flag.
This is also my hope for Scottish football although this last week or so has been a predictable shambles. The circumstances are unprecedented and some genuine self-reflection from the authorities, certain clubs and fans and some in the media would be constructive. Improvements to the game should not be based around the commercial implications of having a minimum of four Celtic v Rangers games shown live on the TV or those clubs visiting away grounds as many times as possible per season.
UEFA has to reorganise their club competitions too. This could be third tournament below the Europa League with more consideration (any would be a start) to and guaranteed access for more clubs outside of England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France. These bigger clubs, already the wealthiest by far, need to accept less. Don’t let them tell anyone they can’t afford too.
Our Scottish clubs should consider each other as partners, first and foremost, and rivals second. Competition is important and can be achieved respectfully and without the occasional vitriol or tedious petty rivalry. I would guess all anyone wants in society or sport is fairness. Football is meaningful and simultaneously trivial. Stay safe.
https://twitter.com/ncgeehan/status/1251068889934553088?s=21
Be careful what you wish for.
Incredibleadamspark
Good post if only the powers that be ( sport and politics ) thought likewise life for everyone would be so much better . One thing that is really annoying me just now is how it is all of a sudden cool and trendy for celebreties to champion the NHS . The same celebreties who were pushing for the tories at the general election . The same tories who have systematically under funded the NHS the past 10 years and allowed their rich friends to cherrypick certain NHS services that actually are profitable to use for their on personal gain… Richard Branson is one that springs to mnd among others .
Regarding David Low ,I too thought his views were a bit skewed , he is usually very balanced, was thinking at one point if his account had been hacked !! As this point in football we need the powers that be to really stand up and lead . I know I know but more than ever they need to put things in place to safe guard our game . For me , I cant see the harm in a 14 team league , even if it was only for a couple of seasons to let teams adapt to this new age that football is facing . I can only see positives in this. In the top league it would be much better to be playing an even amount of games home and away after a split, same as bottom half . I would imagine it would be tight at the bottom and there would be a lot to play for hence decent attendances at the tail end of the season . On a bigger issue , FFP MUST be phased in , an absoloute MUST . Rangers are perilously close to going bust again , if they do ,whats to stop them repeating their wreckless financial ways once again ??? Absoloutely nothing . The authorities need to deal with the bigger picture here and do what is best for Scottish football , not for the Govan area of Glasgow. Finally , I think there should be a decent percentage of any EUFA money earned trough Champs league / Europa cup participation distributed to the clubs in the top league . I know I will get slaughterd from fellow Celtic fans for saying that but we need a competitive league . If we get a competitive league maybe just maybe other teams will start getting back into europe again . Aberdeen, Hibs , Hearts , Dundee Utd have spectacularly under achieved over the years surely there is a possibility that they could once again get their foot in the door in european football to help our cause. Big ask I know and sadly I dont think the authorities have it in them to do anything new BUT all of the clubs who are facing a bleak future , even Celtic happily sat idly by and allowed the mediocre lack lustre ( corrupt ) leadership of our game to flourish and actually work against what is best for every club in Scotland. After this is over every club need to sort out once and for all the two governing bodies that run Scottish Football especially the SFA. We are in a really dark place at the moment and where are the SFA , has Maxwell even said anything …. is he still alive ?
Ex Ludo 17th April 2020 at 11:17
https://twitter.com/ncgeehan/status/1251068889934553088?s=21 Be careful what you wish for.
========
The Toon Army has to get Riyal: the troops could soon be deserting the club again, if the Gulf between NUFC and the top 6 doesn't narrow anytime soon…
Poor jokes aside: IMO, the Internet Bampots are painfully aware that business goals trumped sporting ideals / integrity a long time ago.
For the MSM to now question the source of a UK football club buyer's wealth is risible and irrelevant – and perhaps about 20/30 years too late?
[But, the Al Sauds do make King look like an angel… relatively speaking.]
roddybhoy 17th April 2020 at 11:55
The main draw back for any 14 team format is the proportionate division of revenues. Like it or not the main revenue driver for the tv deal is the Celtic v Rangers games. The rest are filler and betting fodder outside of Scotland, while within Scotland the market is small. Its the sole reason for trying to make sure there are at least 4 per season. The number of other clubs sharing the spoils in the top flight (with crumbs flowing down) affect the other 'biggish' clubs share of the spoils. It is therefore also captured in the myriad of self interests the SPFL vote for and to an extent the SPL split off from the other leagues and subsequent reattachment, the threats during 2012 of an SPL2, the threatened withdrawal of the other top flights from the league in the aftermath, etc.
It is Adam Smith economics in sport but makes a fatal mistake. 'Clubs' represented by their majority owners are considered to be the only voice that matters in much the way landowners used to be the electorate. All other football interests have their voices silent unless it threatens the model itself,
The only realistic way to change this is to break the model. Fans will never have more economic power to flex than they do right now.
StevieBC 17th April 2020 at 11:56
'.., the Al Sauds do make King look like an angel… relatively speaking.'
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Any mention of Saudis in relation to football and sport makes me laugh as heartily and scornfully 31 years on from the u/16s world cup finals I laugh now at 'sporting integrity' being used in relation either to RFC of 1872 or to TRFC of 2012.
RFC of 1872 lied to the whole of Scottish Football and got away with it for years, with not a cheep from the SMSM.
TRFC are presently and from 2012 have been living a lie, with not a cheep from the SMSM.
Interesting piece in Guardian on NUFC takeover. Much to take for Scottish football as well
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/16/exit-the-house-of-karrimor-enter-the-austere-and-unforgiving-house-of-saud
Phil.
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/04/17/a-choreographed-conflict-conceals-a-looming-crisis/
Shug@14.26
PMGB is strongly hinting that a Third Rangers is imminent. I know this outcome has been long predicted but this isn’t 2012. Close Bros in the best of times are not renowned for being laissez faire in their business dealings and the current situation is nowhere near that.
shug 17th April 2020 at 14:26
Nothing much new in there Shug, but a wise SPFL should consider making deductions at source, from the final payments, and re-allocating those funds directly to clubs owed, thus keeping the funds within our game, and they are not frittered away on more pressing matters, like law firms, court imposed damages, PR schemes, and floating charge avoidance.
The SFA should have full details of their current financial condition in their Euro applications dept. I seem to recall that fitba' debts are the priority of both governing bodies, attached to shares and membership. It is within their remit to ensure they are honoured.
I'll wager Peter Lawell has already licked the stamp on the invoiced return of Celtic fan's money.
Others will be looking for transfer instalments, loan players will not be on wage deferrals, and I bet the new pitch wasn't cash up front. Even mothball running costs, are still costs.
That 2nd spot money will have to go a long way. It is not loaves and fishes.
I’m guessing Phil has a log in for John James site ?
John had a similar exclusive yesterday though it was password protected.
If anyone that’s interested in the history of Scottish football, and is looking to fill the odd hour of lock down, I came across this link to a digitised version of a book written by ex Hearts manager John McCartney in 1930 on the “Story of the Scottish Football League 1890 – 1930”.
https://twitter.com/AndyMitchMedia/status/1250855742078402561
It’s not a chronology, but the writer’s views about what went on in the early days on the league and the notable characters of the time. (It’s not a Hearts book). The book is free and can be read from the website or downloaded as a pdf file.
There are some unexpected uses of language, such as his description of the press as “Utopian phantasmagorias, built on contraction of vision with a sublime plastering of stupendous egotism, are not and never can be of use to club controllers. The sincerity of the writers is not questioned, but clubs do resent, after all, what can only be a superficial or limited conception of their exclusive business being thrust down their throats” (Some things never change.)
About Rangers early days “Unlike the Celtic the Rangers were not born with a silver spoon.” (That might come as a surprise to some.)
About Celtic “The Celtic Board, always to the fore in the works of reform – eschewing sentiment and sycophancy – held no brief for selfishness. They dared do anything for the sake of honesty and purity being maintained sacred and the protection of the rights and claims of all clubs” (I wish they had retained that mantra)
He heaps praise on Celtic’s John H McLaughlin describing him as “the most powerful, progressive and eloquent legislator Scotland ever possessed” (so it’s not Campbell Ogilvie after all)
Corrupt official 17th April 2020 at 15:00
shug 17th April 2020 at 14:26
It has been talked about a plenty. Many successful businesses still go under when cash-flow becomes a problem.
T'Rangers have had decent sums of money coming in, they have people who, to date, have stumped up cash to keep the operations going.
The can kicking has kept the wolves from the door and enough cash circulating to keep going. It is however going to be tough times ahead given the current situation and how we all fight out way out at the other end. People owed money may not be so patient as in the past as their own survival could be at stake.
Like the 50's film version of The War of The Worlds, when some folk hoped it would be something Nuclear that would send the baddies packing, it might end up being a virus!!
New podcast with Andy Smith of the SFSA
Also added a “Podcast” item to the menu at the top of the page.
Big Pink 17th April 2020 at 17:02
New podcast with Andy Smith of the SFSA
===================================
Just listened to Andrew’s podcast.
I was a bit underwhelmed if I’m honest. It sounded as if you were having to pull teeth to get much of a response to most of your questions.
There was acceptance of the SPFL’s resolution with “we are where we are”, but nothing really questioning why we ended up with the rancour that followed.
He aligned himself with David’s concerns about the issues facing clubs going forward which was fine, but said nothing that caused me to take notice and say “that sounds like a good idea”.
I was left with the impression that the SFSA isn’t really doing very much.
wottpi 17th April 2020 at 16:37
Corrupt official 17th April 2020 at 15:00
shug 17th April 2020 at 14:26
It has been talked about a plenty. Many successful businesses still go under when cash-flow becomes a problem.
======================================
Completely agree with all you say Wottpi, which is why I suggested The SPFL do all they can to keep the money in the game, and lessen any dominoes falling.
However I suspect it will be down to the clubs to undertake their own invoicing and accounting. I doubt another delay while calculating balance of payments, would be helpful at this stage.
BP, good effort with these 2 podcasts.
It was just as good as listening to Clyde SSB, (joking!).
Quality of audio was decent, (don't know if it was my device, but had a couple of minor delays listening to David Low podcast – but today's didn't have any delays.)
It was good to get both their inputs, IMO.
I would agree with eJ in general: I thought Andy would come out fighting for the fans, with cutting points about the distinct lack of leadership at Hampden, and the continuing disconnect with the fans.
Mibbees I'm too cynical, but the mention of Henry McLeish's name just switches me off: his time has passed IMO.
But, it's always beneficial to hear other opinions and viewpoints on SFM.
For a task force that was meant to just be looking at an "extended Premiership model", there is a lack of Premiership clubs on it (Hearts/Hamilton as joint chairs plus Hibs).
https://spfl.co.uk/news/reconstruction-group-announced
Two extracts from today’s Scottish football reporting (!) which irked me somewhat:-
1. ‘Celtic’s ninth title will forever be known as the one that got away’ (Mark Hendry – Evening Times)
Really – by whom ? (CFC and its supporters? the Green Brigade? Dundee United? Raith Rovers? Cove Rangers? UEFA? SPFL? the rest of the football world? Me? …). I wonder if Mr Hendry would accept that, by logical extension of his statement, any club who are declared champions anywhere in world soccer will be similarly ‘tainted’?
2. ‘World’s biggest bookies declare Celtic’s title null and void as they make decisive payout decision’ (Mark Walker – Daily Record)
I didn’t realise that Bet 365, who will not be paying out on current standings in the SPL, had so much power (to wipe Season 2019-20 from the history books)!
Presumably, then, by the same token, punters thereby disappointed will be re-imbursed.
What the points above illustrate abundantly imho is how our SMSM ( nothing more than propagandists for SEVCO) will play their part in undermining the achievements of CFC. I had better get used to this I guess.
No mention yet of tainted titles for Dundee United, Raith Rovers, Cove Rangers (indeed anyone else) – don’t watch this space for that.
'bect67 17th April 2020 at 19:04
‘Celtic’s ninth title will forever be known as the one that got away’ (Mark Hendry – Evening Times)
Really – by whom ? (CFC and its supporters? the Green Brigade? Dundee United? Raith Rovers? Cove Rangers? UEFA? SPFL? the rest of the football world? Me? …). I wonder if Mr Hendry would accept that, by logical extension of his statement, any club who are declared champions anywhere in world soccer will be similarly ‘tainted’?…'
###################
I read a comment elsewhere which asked, 'Will all educational qualifications awarded without completing this year's course work be considered second-rate or tainted?'
Nope, just Scottish football is to suffer from this 'taint', particularly when it's whipped up by a media that's desperate to be part of the story it's reporting.
To add to what has been decided elsewhere in the “pyramid”, the Board of the EOSFL (tiers 6 &7) met last night and decided to make a recommendation for the clubs to vote on.
The main elements of the recommendation were to declare champions of each division (Bo’ness at tier 6, plus Tynecastle and LTHV at tier 7). Those three clubs will be eligible for promotion. In Bo’ness’ case it is dependent on confirmation of their licence by the SFA, agreement of play-off arrangements if required with the SOFSL and finally acceptance by the Lowland League.
There is no proposal to relegate any clubs. There will be an adjustment to the number of clubs in each division which remains dependent on the number of new applicants accepted by the EOSFL and the final settlement as agreed by the SPFL and Lowland League.
My personal view is that the EOSFL Board has got their recommendation as close to a fair solution as was possible in the current circumstances.
The aim will have been to avoid punishing any individual club unfairly.
By “punishing”, I mean, putting into effect a relegation that was previously just a risk of relegation.
At the top end of the tables, I don’t have an issue in designating champion clubs on a PPG basis, allowing the nominated clubs to be considered for promotion
For the chasing clubs, they have lost out on a “potential” title winning or promotion promotion place. I don’t see that as a “punishment” per se, more like the loss of an opportunity. I don’t consider it nearly as bad as losing your current status in the League
I think the proposals, as a package, represents the best and fairest result that could be achieved for all clubs in the circumstances that the League finds itself. Some clubs will have gained a little, while others have lost a little, but no-one has been “punished” unfairly.
bordersdon 15th April 2020 at 16:28
5
6
Rate This
Stevie BC @ 14.13
Apparently this same quote was raised / questioned after his SPFL appointment back in 2017, so it’s nothing new.
————————————————————————
Yes I remember that. Was their any outcome? If the quote is genuine at very best it doesn't look good! I would not be happy if someone in his position made a statement like that about my club.
———————————————————-
Maybe missed it but does anybody know if there was an investigation (internal or external) about this? I repeat my question (sorry if it has already been answered) would any supporter of any club not be very upset about that comment against their club from a person in his position? Not being provocative but think it is a reasonable question!
ET @ 16.22
————————————————–
Will take time to read that EJ. Reminded me a wee bit about a book I have "The first hundred years" of the Scottish Football league 1890-1990 by Bob Crampsey. A very interesting and factual record which I have decided to re-read. A very different environment than the money orientated set up we have now!!
Sad to read of the death of Norman Hunter from this dreadful virus. His robust style of play was not always to everyone's liking but, with his presence in the Leeds Utd. team, opponents knew they were not in for an easy time.
The 1970 EC Semi-Final was memorable for so many reasons. In these doldrum times I found a link to 45mins, in colour, of that game. Hope it works and if it is of interest. Note Wee Jimmy roasting everyone! Norman tried but Big Yogi was like Pele that night. Classic match between two really good teams.
https://archive.org/details/CelticVLeedsUnited1970EuropeanCupSemiFinal
Bill1903 17th April 2020 at 15:53
I’m guessing Phil has a log in for John James site ?
John had a similar exclusive yesterday though it was password protected.
=============================================
Nice one rofl.
easyJambo 17th April 2020 at 16:22
'..If anyone that’s interested in the history of Scottish football,..'
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
That's a wonderful reference, eJ, and the excerpts you quote are so relevant to today, except perhaps that while McCartney did not doubt the sincerity of the Press in their '..contraction of vision with a sublime plastering of stupendous egotism,' many today have very grave doubts about the SMSM's objectivity and capacity to be sincere in their quest for football truth, although their egotism shines through as brightly now as it did in 1930!
I used to hear my father-in-law ( who would have been about 16 in 1930) occasionally refer to John McLaughlin, not so much in talking to me, but in talking to one or two of his pals when I, first as prospective son-in-law and then as actual son-in-law, was occasionally invited down to the pub to join them ( i.e be the gopher and /or driver!) in the late 60s early 70s.
When I sign off the blog tonight I will immediately have a read at McCartney's book.
Thank you for posting the link.
bordersdon 17th April 2020 at 21:02
Maybe missed it but does anybody know if there was an investigation (internal or external) about this? I repeat my question (sorry if it has already been answered) would any supporter of any club not be very upset about that comment against their club from a person in his position? Not being provocative but think it is a reasonable question!
……………
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-return-fire-rangers-chairman-12628612
……
In a strongly-worded statement, released this afternoon, the league body have accused King of failing to provide evidence of his allegations that MacLennan’s role constitutes a conflict of interest.
They also hit out at the South African- based businessman for airing his allegations publicly and backed their own chairman saying MacLennan has “acted impeccably” throughout the matter.
The SPFL booted out King’s demands for a QC to lead an independent probe into MacLennan’s appointment as a non-executive director at Irish media giants INM – which is part owned by Desmond.
They insist Rangers managing director Stewart Robertson had been informed of the business tie-up four months ago
Corrupt official17th April 2020
Take your point but I'm guessing, like my business, there will be more understanding between smaller like minded businesses.
As such the smaller clubs will probably be able to manage the relationships with like minded suppliers.
However if you know Steve G, El Buffalo and Defoe are getting thousands a week you are more likely to challenge for any cash owed!!
wottpi 17th April 2020 at 23:18
Corrupt official17th April 2020
Aye, There's a long way to go before Scottish fitba' is out of the woods yet. A lot of variables.
I idly wonder what input Karyn McCluskey has had in the deliberations of the SPFL, in so far that as being a non-executive director (the only one) she has some 'duty' to consider the broad ethical line of strategic/policy decisions proposed to be taken by the SPFL board?
[ privately, I think the concept of 'non -executive directors' is a ridiculous one.
Really, to imagine that a Board would appoint as a non-exec director anyone who might actually present any kind of 'problem' for the Board by raising moral or ethical issues or notions of right and wrong is stretching the bounds of credibility.
Or am I being too, too cynical?]
roddybhoy 17th April 2020 at 11:55 Edit
Incredibleadamspark
Good post if only the powers that be ( sport and politics ) thought likewise life for everyone would be so much better . One thing that is really annoying me just now is how it is all of a sudden cool and trendy for celebreties to champion the NHS . The same celebreties who were pushing for the tories at the general election . The same tories who have systematically under funded the NHS the past 10 years and allowed their rich friends to cherrypick certain NHS services that actually are profitable to use for their on personal gain… Richard Branson is one that springs to mnd among others .
Regarding David Low ,I too thought his views were a bit skewed , he is usually very balanced, was thinking at one point if his account had been hacked !! As this point in football we need the powers that be to really stand up and lead . I know I know but more than ever they need to put things in place to safe guard our game . For me , I cant see the harm in a 14 team league , even if it was only for a couple of seasons to let teams adapt to this new age that football is facing . I can only see positives in this. In the top league it would be much better to be playing an even amount of games home and away after a split, same as bottom half . I would imagine it would be tight at the bottom and there would be a lot to play for hence decent attendances at the tail end of the season . On a bigger issue , FFP MUST be phased in , an absoloute MUST . Rangers are perilously close to going bust again , if they do ,whats to stop them repeating their wreckless financial ways once again ??? Absoloutely nothing . The authorities need to deal with the bigger picture here and do what is best for Scottish football , not for the Govan area of Glasgow. Finally , I think there should be a decent percentage of any EUFA money earned trough Champs league / Europa cup participation distributed to the clubs in the top league . I know I will get slaughterd from fellow Celtic fans for saying that but we need a competitive league . If we get a competitive league maybe just maybe other teams will start getting back into europe again . Aberdeen, Hibs , Hearts , Dundee Utd have spectacularly under achieved over the years surely there is a possibility that they could once again get their foot in the door in european football to help our cause. Big ask I know and sadly I dont think the authorities have it in them to do anything new BUT all of the clubs who are facing a bleak future , even Celtic happily sat idly by and allowed the mediocre lack lustre ( corrupt ) leadership of our game to flourish and actually work against what is best for every club in Scotland. After this is over every club need to sort out once and for all the two governing bodies that run Scottish Football especially the SFA. We are in a really dark place at the moment and where are the SFA , has Maxwell even said anything …. is he still alive ?
========================
On domestic FFP – I've been arguing for it since 2011. http://celticunderground.net/sfa-reform-one-down-three-to-go/
On sharing UEFA Money more equitably – I've been arguing for it almost from inception of SFM
On SFA Reform – ditto – An objective of Resolution 12 was to give Celtic leverage to bring it about but it turned out that in spite of giving the impression it was a shared objective it was not what they wanted – pesky shareholders and supporters having a say in football governance.
It will not come via surveys, it will come from speaking the truth about the toxic nature of the business model and whom it benefits and how it works against what Andrew spoke of in his podcast of what football means at community level, the good fruit that it brings rather than the bitter stuff that has emerged in the last week at the higher paid professional level because it has never been addressed because it makes money. Well that well has just dried up.
On a 14 team league meaning less to go to individual clubs here is the reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=grXBBzNtm2Y&feature=emb_logo
It is a reality the world is now having to face, a recalibration of what we value that will change the wrong direction the world was heading, led by charlatans and liars. Is it a concept David Low accepts?
That needs truth, then reconciliation and the coming days might just make enough folk aware of the lies to enable us to face the truth about the game we all love and put it back on track.
http://celticunderground.net/nothing-to-see-here-timmy-move-on/
Corrupt official 17th April 2020 at 15:00 Edit
24
1
Rate This
shug 17th April 2020 at 14:26
Nothing much new in there Shug, but a wise SPFL should consider making deductions at source, from the final payments, and re-allocating those funds directly to clubs owed, thus keeping the funds within our game, and they are not frittered away on more pressing matters, like law firms, court imposed damages, PR schemes, and floating charge avoidance.
The SFA should have full details of their current financial condition in their Euro applications dept. I seem to recall that fitba' debts are the priority of both governing bodies, attached to shares and membership. It is within their remit to ensure they are honoured.
I'll wager Peter Lawell has already licked the stamp on the invoiced return of Celtic fan's money.
Others will be looking for transfer instalments, loan players will not be on wage deferrals, and I bet the new pitch wasn't cash up front. Even mothball running costs, are still costs.
That 2nd spot money will have to go a long way. It is not loaves and fishes.
====================
On the state of play at Ibrox that the SFA should be more than aware of but are they able to share with SPFL E Tims have looked at it.
http://etims.net/?p=15552
incredibleadamspark 17th April 2020 at 09:43 Edit
Working my way up the page I totally concur with your wider view as you may have noted in my response to Roddyboy.
I think the long spoon video in that response is an idea whose time has come and ending on a philosophical viewpoint I think Kalil Gibran was most prescient when he spoke of pain.
Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses
your understanding.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its
heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain.
And could you keep your heart in wonder at the
daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem
less wondrous than your joy;
And you would accept the seasons of your heart,
even as you have always accepted the seasons that
pass over your fields.
And you would watch with serenity through the
winters of your grief.
Much of your pain is self-chosen.
It is the bitter potion by which the physician within
you heals your sick self.
Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy
in silence and tranquillity:
For his hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by
the tender hand of the Unseen,
And the cup he brings, though it burn your lips, has
been fashioned of the clay which the Potter has
moistened with His own sacred tears.
AULDHEID on 17TH APRIL 2020 1:53 AM
GLENDALYSTONSILS on 16TH APRIL 2020 2:24 PM
Re my earlier post on the asterisk . I don’t object to our ninth title being asterisked per se , rather it’s the principle of the huns cheating titles appearing as honest wins.
Their titles should of course be stripped , but failing that , perhaps a double asterisk to denote that our asterisk and theirs mean quite different things.
That will never happen , destined for the history books like resolution 12.
=================
The history of Res12 is not over. There is still a chapter to be added that sets out deception of the Celtic support on BOTH the UEFA Licence 2011 and LNS by the Celtic Board, making use of Board leaning bloggers, either knowingly or unknowingly, to create the impression of unhappiness with both the SFA and then SPL.
That deception reached its latest high point at the last AGM with denial of seeing the 5 Way Agreement.
There is another reveal all evidence backed resolution drafted with support from sufficient shareholders to have it tabled in November, by which time I hope even the most fervent of supporters will tire of being lied to and demand, not just league reconstruction but SFA/SPFL reconstruction too as it dawns on every club and their supporters that looking after their fellow clubs is good for business, especially with a lot less finance to share.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mGVOekKMRs
Now is not the time to discuss of course, survival is the name of the current game but if there is game by October then all will be revealed.
Auldheid 18th April 2020 at 01:00
Corrupt official 17th April 2020 at 15:00
==================================
I was thnking along similar lines as etims Auldheid, but I fear calculating balances now would cause delay in payments that appear to be urgently required. However, regardless of the constitutional elements involved, between SFA/SPFL, we are talking about something which is pretty much an open secret. It's based on information in the public domain. court cases, loans and charges, Sevco's own accounts……It is not hearsay…..And that's from before clubs had their income streams halted.
Company legal constraints have been relaxed, and both organisations have a duty of care to look out in the best interests of the game. A duty to talk and advise. Under the Force majeure circumstances to co-operate is the fit for purpose thing to do. Not to co-operate speaks for itself.
Cluster One @ 22.56
———————————————————–
Thanks for that.
It certainly deals with the conflict of interest issue but, unless I missed it, does not explicitly refer to the "alleged" comments, probably inappropriate for a future chairman of the SPFL, about Rangers*. I repeat I would not be happy if it was revealed that someone in that position made such comments (if he indeed did) about my club and I'm sure that the supporters of any other club would feel the same? Just curious if the Private Eye quote was ever substantiated (or proved false).
John Clark 17th April 2020
I idly wonder what input Karyn McCluskey has had in the deliberations of the SPFL, in so far that as being a non-executive director (the only one) she has some 'duty' to consider the broad ethical line of strategic/policy decisions proposed to be taken by the SPFL board?
[ privately, I think the concept of 'non -executive directors' is a ridiculous one.
Really, to imagine that a Board would appoint as a non-exec director anyone who might actually present any kind of 'problem' for the Board by raising moral or ethical issues or notions of right and wrong is stretching the bounds of credibility.
Or am I being too, too cynical?]
============================================
John, I appreciate the cynicism but having experience of the role and viewing the actions of others in similar roles I believe I can say that non-execs can ensure good governance and hold the executive to account. Obviously this is not going to be a universal outcome and selection almost certainly does impact on how the role is carried out.
Bodies like the SFA and SPFL with stakeholders throughout the community especially need independent non-execs to ensure a wider view is applied in decision-making.
TBH though I'm not seeing much evidence of these bodies taking such a wider view.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
Corrupt Official
UEFA, never mind the SFA face a dilemma here which gets reported in the Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/uefa-explores-financial-rule-changes-due-to-pandemic-impact/2020/04/07/3115d0c2-78e4-11ea-a311-adb1344719a9_story.html
This
“The fact we have a crisis doesn’t mean we should allow any financial contribution just from anyone. … So if (someone) comes along and wants to help a club and with a billion euros that should be to help to reduce the debt levels. That shouldn’t be allowed to get a competitive advantage and then their losses are going up for the next few seasons.”
and this
“If European clubs don’t pay Spanish clubs the Spanish clubs may not be able to pay other European clubs,” Tebas said. “That is why it’s important for the Financial Fair Play regulations to continue as they are and there is no one who wants to make the most of the circumstances and not pay. It is important Financial Fair Play regulations are abided by as they exist at the moment.”
illustrates UEFA’s dilemma and reinforces the point that FFP as it stands has to be a prime consideration before applying any CV19 relaxation.
The first para relates to owners pumping in money and the break even rule which Rangers have a difficulty meeting on both counts. The second the consequences of letting a club escape its debt to other clubs and this
” The UEFA executive committee did agree last week to give member associations more time to complete the club licensing process, including providing financial documents, given there is no clear time frame for starting next season.”
says clearly the current process needs to be completed, as it has to because one of the objectives of UEFA FFP is to prevent the possibility of a club on shaky solvency grounds getting a licence in case it subsequently goes bust after the competition starts.
The dilemma UEFA face now is that even with a set of books that show a club breaking even, future income flows are no longer dependable, including that UEFA will be able to have a competition at all. This suggests their prime aim will be to ensure that only clubs with a sugar daddy or a reasonable amount of cash in hand will be given entry…..
The conditions of 2011 are repeating themselves at Ibrox except this time supporters are much better informed of UEFA FFP rules and know the SFA have form.
However since it is money earned I would not expect it to be withheld but I think it should be made conditional on what all clubs are going to have to do and that is act sustainably.
That needs backed by rules which leads to domestic FFP, one new condition of which is to have sufficient cash reserves in escrow to cover the wage bill for x months.
If UEFA are doing their job to protect their competition it is a new provision they should at least be considering so SFA/SPFL might have no option but to follow suit.
However living within the domestic means of Scottish football with limits on sugar daddy money requires serious consideration as part of reconstruction.
bordersdon 18th April 2020 at 10:58
Cluster One @ 22.56
I think you will be decidedly underwhelmed by his comments BD. In truth a few more plain speakers would not go amiss on the 6th floor. If nothing was a thing, then this "comment" only serves to highlight how much thing they actually have…….Unlike "desperate", which they appear to have in abundance.
. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVpbyH4WsAEgdFB?format=jpg&name=small
CO, in the interests of pedantry I tried to find out more about that ‘quote’ from McLennan – for context and because it doesn’t read like a direct quote.
I found this extract in a DR article from 2018;
“…[Rangers] back it up by referencing an assassination job in Private Eye magazine from last year where it was claimed when he worked at the Daily Record 30 years ago he often said he “cannae stand those b******s” when it came to Rangers…”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/missing-murdoch-maclennan-require-cave-12907268
===
On the face of it, it looks like a third party quote about what someone is alleged to have said – and from 30 years previously!
(Don’t know if there are any direct quotes circulating though.)
And for irony: this is a DR article penned by Michael Gannon, complaining about the alleged, open bias… of a former DR employee!
It’s desperate stuff indeed from TRFC to drag this up, again.
Nonetheless, it doesn’t detract from the continuing, shocking lack of leadership displayed by the SPFL under McLennan’s Chairmanship.
Link to the SFSA survey
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/sfsa-league
https://twitter.com/TamsellicsonIII/status/1250412768320159744/photo/1
https://twitter.com/messages/1246108110948876291/media/1250441626666729482
bordersdon 18th April 2020 at 10:58
…….
It was more a reference to hooliganism
Re. the survey, they are missing a category re. supporters who no longer live in Scotland (or the British Isles), but are committed to their team. "Armchair" as a response option is OK, but surely means something quite different between someone who lives within driving distance of their club and chooses to watch on TV vs someone who lives 8000 miles away (as I do) and is only able to follow via the armchair.
I've just listened to the Andrew Smith interview. I must admit I found it hard going. From the off we were basically being told to move on, nothing to see here. I was reminded of Mogadon Man in his approach to most subjects.
To also describe Rangers* as 'on the way back' suggests a complete disconnect from financial reality and a disregard for FFP. That has to be a key issue going forward for ALL clubs.
If this is what passes for a fan movement then the SFA/SPFL have nothing to fear and can continue to go their own sweet way.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
redlichtie 18th April 2020 at 16:09
It's almost as if it was set up to stifle rather than amplify fans' concerns . Reminds me of the People's Front of Judea .
A lot of noise and indignation about the alleged 5pm Friday deadline , but is it not the company secretary's job to know the rules that the company has signed to ? Somebody could mibbes ask who knew , or more importantly , who didn't and why not .
Is it correct that the article is from 2017 and he supposedly said it 30 years ago so not even about them it's about the dead club clowns.
Clowns over at £brox noise will only post the headline. Will leave it up to anyone who wants a laugh to go and have a wee keek.
Did Celtic 'steal' from Rangers?
paddy malarkey18th April 2020 at 17:41
I think we have established the 28 days were perhaps know by most but to a man everyone I have heard involved in the process has said they felt pressured, at least, to vote by 5 on Good Friday.
While it wasn't said if full it looks like Aderdeen were on the verge of voting no but only voted yes when informed before 5 their vote was 'meaningless'.
To my reading they finally voted yes to avoid causing waves.
How many others were in the same boat.
May not change the overall result but the 85% yes vote may not be a true reflection of the position of all clubs.
The whole thing was a disorganised and rushed shambles and fail to see how anyone can say otherwise.
wottpi 18th April 2020 at 21:09
Most voting processes , no matter how trivial , are riven with vested interests , and often there is an indication of the result preferred by the movers and shakers – and this one was no different . There was no 5 pm deadline , but there was a request to have it done by then to facilitate the early release of funds to distressed clubs . All very normal until some people started playing silly buggers . Add to that the absence of meaningful information by the organisers causing a lot of indecision , and we get the disorganised and rushed shambles you stated . Still doesn't take away from the fact that company secretaries should know the rules and regs of the game they are in , and should keep their boards informed , rather than rely on the organisers to be upfront and honest . Especially in Scottish football . Who knew , who didn't , and of those who knew , how many shared with the information with their board and other clubs ?
Paddy, I think you are correct about 'trivial' voting processes. The potential for vested interests.
There was a bit of a flap regarding the words used on the ballot paper in 2014.
The SNP's preferred "Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?"
Had to be changed to " Should Scotland be an independent country?"
It's the little things!
paddy malarkey 18th April 2020 at 22:08
wottpi 18th April 2020 at 21:09
There was no 5 pm deadline , but there was a request to have it done by then to facilitate the early release of funds to distressed clubs.
=================================
A non deadline which appeared to prompt the SPFL executive to start phoning around clubs, including Dundee and Aberdeen, who appear to have been given concessions or assurances in return for “yes” votes. Lobbying is fine, as long as that it as far as it goes, e.g. come on guys, can we have your votes in as soon as possible so we can make payments or come up with an alternative.
I’ll be interested to hear what Les Gray has to say about the Board’s actions on Sportsound tomorrow.
I know that a number of people now wish to “move on” following the “acceptance” of the proposals. I certainly agree in terms of preparing for the financial tsunami that will probably hit most clubs by the end of the summer. However, that should not prevent any wrongs within that voting process being acknowledged and put right over the next few days and weeks.
Auldheid and his Res12 colleagues are all to familiar with the “move on” mantra of the football authorities and those clubs with vested interests.
easyJambo 18th April 2020 at 23:36
'….However, that should not prevent any wrongs within that voting process being acknowledged and put right over the next few days and weeks.'
""""""""""""""""""""""
I agree.
The whole point and purpose of the 'executive' of a body is to carry out the wishes of the organisation that has elected/appointed the officers of the 'executive'.
It is not for the 'executive' to do anything but provide the necessary background information so that informed decisions can be made, and ,perhaps, go so far as to outline the likely or potential consequences of the options that might secure the majority vote.
It is certainly no function of the 'executive' to lobby for a particular outcome, or, God save the mark, to try to rig the vote!
And if there are suspicions that the SPFL 'executive' may have behaved as some of us believe that the SFA behaved in relation to Res12 and the 5-Way Agreement, then its behaviour has to be challenged.
But if an independent investigation into the SPFL is to be undertaken, so much more should the Res 12 investigation be carried out.
JC, I agree.
As I said last week taking Doncaster to task over the current voting issues might not have been my first choice but he is well overdue his comeuppance.
In fact it could be argued that he should not have been in situ last week.
redlichtie 18th April 2020 at 16:09
I've just listened to the Andrew Smith interview. I must admit I found it hard going. From the off we were basically being told to move on, nothing to see here. I was reminded of Mogadon Man in his approach to most subjects.
To also describe Rangers* as 'on the way back' suggests a complete disconnect from financial reality and a disregard for FFP. That has to be a key issue going forward for ALL clubs.
If this is what passes for a fan movement then the SFA/SPFL have nothing to fear and can continue to go their own sweet way.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And stronger independent thinkers and not propagandists.
When we heard the SPFL board put forward a resolution with a 103 page accompanying information document, few of us would have thought it had a neutral stance on the matter.
Since the board's position was clearly to promote its own proposal, is it really surprising that the CEO (acting on behalf of the board) should have actively lobbied members to support the resolution? Is there any reason he should have not?
If the CEO was quite properly promoting the board's preferred outcome, might "concessions or assurances" be simply characterised as 'providing clarification' to members who were still undecided? What, I think in Tele sales, would be called 'objection handling'.
From all we have seen, heard or read, is there any prima facie evidence that there has been any impropriety? Any actual illegality?
Realistically, has there been a breach of the company's AoA and/or the Companies Act? If anyone thinks so, what Article or law do you believe has been ignored/overlooked?
Some may find the resolution itself unfair. Immoral even!
Some may think that the clubs were placed in an invideous position. That there were alternative solutions available.
The ultimate outcome is not the one everyone would have chosen in the circumstances. I understand and respect that position – though I would respectfully disagree.
What I don't understand is the connection between the conduct of the SPFL in passing this resolution and the conduct of the SFA when awarding Rangers a Euro License in 2011.
TRFC, if it has a genuine complaint, can put forward a new resolution to compel the company to set up an independent review of how the last resolution was conducted. I think it needs two other clubs to support the proposal to take it to a vote. Perhaps Hearts and Partick Thistle might support TRFC's position? Or perhaps not!
TRFC could also forward suspicions to the police if it suspects there has been criminality.
Neither is likely as I'd think the last thing that TRFC want is something that would 'officially' legitimise the vote.
Better to make lots of noise and complaints, passing off falsehoods and innuendo as established facts. Rabble rousing sells more season tickets after all! Just ask Charles! Or Dave!
The Res 12 people genuinely want an enquiry. TRFC really, really don't!
JC
Neil Doncaster is a board member – as well as the CEO.
Why do you think he should have remained neutral in relation to a resolution that had been put forward by the board?
I'm struggling to find fault with the idea that he would actively support his board's proposal.
The calls for an independent review of the SPFL will ultimately rest with the clubs. If they feel strongly enough about it then get three of them to call an EGM and 75% of them to vote for it – as long as the rules are put in place about no lobbying beforehand. Aye right! However, that is what all the paragons of virtue currently speaking out are concerned about isn’t it? Even those who were happy to share their little Cartel’s WhatsApp secrets.
For me though looking at this situation and the most recent other call for an independent review only confirms where I suspect we have always been in Scotland. When the Supreme Court ruled that Rangers tax affairs were illegal Celtic called for an Independent review of how the SPFL and SFA handled the whole affair. The SPFL were willing to participate, the SFA refused to ‘rake over old coals’. The media and Rangers raged at Celtic, and no other club said anything. I am however willing to bet that some other clubs would have welcomed it. Yet now, with Rangers being really angry about something, it seems safer for other clubs to come out and ask for the same. The difference is notable. I am not accusing the other clubs of favouring Rangers. It just seems clear that the ground is far safer to walk on in this case.
Ultimately it makes no difference to me. Rangers are not happy about something, they have their many media pals on board, and they are going for the SPFLs throat. Already it is impossible for the SPFL to have a ‘fair trial’ and the national broadcaster for some reason are fully lined up behind that Kangaroo Court stance. I hope Celtic keep well out of it. Their views are clearly not welcome in this country anyway.
Now that the ibrox club have set out a set of demands on top of the calls for transparacy and the integrity of the game, and the call for MacLennan head for something he said 30 years ago.A nd a call for Doncasters head. It is a right old scatter gun approach from the ibrox club.
Imagine if celtic had a secret 5 way agreement with the SPFL, There would be calls now from ibrox for transparecy on that one, but since it is the ibrox club that has the secret 5 way agreement they are very quite on it.
That got me thinking, about all the bluster coming out of ibrox.
Everyone knows they are in financial trouble, what if they have asked for some help and the governing bodies have had to say This time we can’t turn a blind eye.
Would the ibrox club in a last ditch attemp be calling for the heads of Doncaster and Maclenna as in get rid of these guys, as we know we are going down and if we are going down the 5 way secret agreement is getting exposed and we will take everyone down with us.
TWO GUYS DOWN OR THE WHOLE BLOODY LOT OF YOU.
Send the cheques back if you don't want them, donate them to a local charity, have a ceremonial burning of them in the centre circle, ask for one of those giant lottery sized cheques and shred it up for bog-roll…..
But don't accept the cheque, and carry on with your bleating.
Do what honour dictates you do….Then, and only then, continue your protest against the circa 80% who voted "differently", to how you would have liked it….F*ck democracy!..
In fact this vote was weighted against, those who wished to vote yes….. 75% was required to carry the vote……It turned out a skoosh-case. An overwhelming democratic landslide.
Did the SPFL lever or coerce?…..I haven't seen any evidence of it, although to listen to some, it exists !…. It is worth pointing out that a far more simpler route was available to the SPFL…….
The board of the SPFL have the right to "recommend", how shareholders should vote..They never. !
Don't be wasting time on a campaign of agitation leaking bitchy wee whatsapps..Get the evidence on the table. Nothing will assist the campaign more greatly. We, the fitba' public, are not the SFA. It will receive a fair hearing, so return the cheques and get it oot !…
Naw?……Why no?
Following on from what a few people have said.
The board of the SPFL (not the SPFL, the board) put a resolution to it's members. They clearly wanted that resolution to pass, why else propose it.
They then lobbied for that resolution, and even asked people to vote as quickly as possible so that they could implement it. Again that makes perfect sense to me, particularly under the circumstances.
Within 1 week, of the 4 weeks allowed, the resolution was passed and has been implemented.
Anyone who says that they didn't understand what was going on, when they had 4 weeks to ask questions, seek advice from experts, consider the matter at their own board level etc is really just saying that they are not competent to do their job.
Could someone please point to where the corruption, bribery etc happened. Not just nebulous "it just wasn't right" stuff. Actual specific events that constitute the board of the SPFL doing something wrong during the process.
At the end of the day if the members, or at least a significant majority of them, spread across the divisions, didn't want this resolution passed it would not have been passed. If the representatives of the members didn't seek clarification then they should have done.
Homunculus 19th April 2020 at 11:43
Could someone please point to where the corruption, bribery etc happened. Not just nebulous “it just wasn’t right” stuff. Actual specific events that constitute the board of the SPFL doing something wrong during the process.
===================
It’s not helped when a club which probably has the biggest latent support in Scotland, and huge media backing, keep putting out smears and allegations without producing anything to back them up. It is also not helped when the national broadcaster is only willing to put forward one side of the argument, and to relentlessly push that stance.
I doubt very much whether 75% of clubs will back a call for an independent inquiry, and with Rangers stance being ‘no evidence until there is one’ the coast is clear for the smear campaign to continue as long as Rangers want to, and as long as the media are prepared to act as a conduit for it.
Homunculus 19th April 2020 at 11:43
"…Anyone who says that they didn't understand what was going on, …2
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
I recognise there to be only one genuine issue of concern: the releasing of 'state of the vote' before all votes had been registered and the result declared final before the 'statutory' deadline?
That is a real issue and needs to be explained. It could not have been an accident, but must have been deliberate, and I want to know who authorised that release and why.
You see, I wonder whether there is a possibility that it was designed as a wrecking attempt to ensure that what seemed likely to be a 'yes' vote would in fact become a 'no', in order to satisfy TRFC ? We know that there are people on the Board who have previously compromised themselves in matters to do with Ibrox.
Tom English now having a go at Celtic fans on Twitter asking what they fear about an independent review of SPFL behaviour? This from a man who has spent the last eight years ridiculing Resolution 12 every time he is asked about it, including stating that the independent Tax Justice Network report on the matter was ‘flawed’ while never providing any evidence of why he believed that to be the case.
I seriously question why this man is being allowed to use a publicly funded platform while refusing point blank to give coverage to both sides of an argument. The argument he is pushing is not a majority one either. The BBC should be impartial. Their stance on this is very concerning.
For efficiency purposes – WRT the Ibrox demand for an SPFL investigation;
If TRFC could just follow Hampden precedent and quickly provide;
– their preferred Terms of Reference for the investigation
&
– their preferred outcome,
then the SPFL can simply dust off Lord Nimmo Smith and wheel him out to relay the result. Job done.
At least this would save us all many, many months of insufferable SMSM p!sh coverage of TRFC's imagined victimhood…
John Clark 19th April 2020 at 12:14
======================================
I agree, they should not have announced the state of the vote until the resolution had been passed, or the 28 days had passed. Whichever came first.
That was ill advised, I can only assume that they did it because they thought people might want an update as they themselves had requested that people cast their vote by 5pm on the Friday.
However whilst it was ill advised did it constitute corruption, bribery etc. Is it really something that people should be getting so militant about, that requires an independent enquiry, judicial review, or whatever else is being suggested.
Was it a bad idea, yes I agree. Was it a heinous crime, I'm not really seeing it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52344236
SPFL: Les Gray labels bullying claim at board as 'nonsense'
SPFL board member Les Gray has described allegations of bullying and coercion as "complete nonsense".
Rangers, Hearts and Aberdeen have called for an independent review into the SPFL's handling of the vote to end the lower league season.
"The board is there purely to enact the will of the clubs," Hamilton Accies chairman Gray told BBC Sportsound.
"And 81% of clubs voted in favour of this resolution. It's a clear endorsement of the clubs' position."
Rangers raised concerns about the board's handling of recent events, and called for the suspension of SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster and the league's legal adviser Rod McKenzie.
"The silent majority have carried the day and other people are noisier," Gray said.
"It's the clubs that voted No that are the noisiest. And I'm looking at what their motives might be."
Gray added: "If you've met Neil Doncaster, the idea that he bullied anyone is absolutely hysterical. I feel sorry for him and Rod [McKenzie] and [SPFL chair] Murdoch [MacLennan] for the way they've been treated.
"They've remained silent in the face of huge provocation. And I think we really need to take a look at these accusations being thrown around."
Thanks for that Homunculus (at 12.58)
There I was loading my pistols to have another go at the SPFL 'witchunters' (Aberdeen, Hearts and SEVCO in particular) after their 'pound of flesh' (as Shylock found out, you should always be careful about that!) – and Les Gray went an dun it for me!
Hope you copied Tom English in!
I thought Les Gray handled himself pretty well. Wish I had a transcript. But yes he called Tom English out on a few occasions. Packie Bonner demonstrated his ability as a pundit on off field activities are on a par with his skills as pundit on match reporting.
He questioned the timing of the vote. Why not wait until after the UEFA meeting next week? Was he not aware of the many clubs crying out for financial assistance NOW? Not in 3 weeks time?
Les Gray also rubbished the idea of the SPFL being a banker of last resort. Loans being given out here there and everywhere. They don't have the resources and it would be a financial disaster potentially even if they had. He mentioned try going to your bank at the moment for a business loan!
jimbo 19th April 2020 at 14:46
Les Gray also rubbished the idea of the SPFL being a banker of last resort. Loans being given out here there and everywhere. They don’t have the resources and it would be a financial disaster potentially even if they had.
============================
The money that they were being ask to “lend” was the clubs’ money anyway. It’s the same money that the SPFL was required to pay out around 4 weeks from now, when the league season was due to end.
I don’t think that the “risk” was really that clubs would go bust and not be able to pay the loans back. Any loan would have been offset against the amount due to the club at the end of the season in any event, and if they had received more than their final position merited, the SPFL, being a “football creditor” would have been assured of getting the money back in full, unless the club folded completely.
The risk was more to do with Sky and BT possibly seeking to claw back some of the cash in respect of games not played. That risk remains for the Premiership clubs. However, there is no current indication of that being a likely scenario and Les Gray alluded to Neil Doncaster having had talks with the broadcasters.
The clubs already have a similar risk in that their ST holders and Hospitality customers could seek repayment of sums paid up front for games not played.
I know that Stirling Albion has already offered their fans refunds. See below, although I wouldn’t expect very may fans to request payment of their refund now.
EJ : That's a very fair and commendable approach being taken by Stirling Albion. Wonder if that approach will be the model throughout Scottish Football?
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
easyJambo 19th April 2020 at 16:20
The money that they were being ask to “lend” was the clubs’ money anyway. It’s the same money that the SPFL was required to pay out around 4 weeks from now, when the league season was due to end.
=======================================
Exactly, they were not lending money, they were paying out the remainder of the clubs "prize money"
The only way to do that was to know all of the teams' finishing position.
The only way to know the finishing position was to finish those divisions the payouts were being made in.
The same will stand for the top division.
You cannot pay out "prize money" until you decide what position every club is in.
Homunculus 19th April 2020 at 17:37
easyJambo 19th April 2020 at 16:20
The money that they were being ask to “lend” was the clubs’ money anyway. It’s the same money that the SPFL was required to pay out around 4 weeks from now, when the league season was due to end.
=======================================
Exactly, they were not lending money, they were paying out the remainder of the clubs "prize money"
The only way to do that was to know all of the teams' finishing position.
The only way to know the finishing position was to finish those divisions the payouts were being made in.
The same will stand for the top division.
You cannot pay out "prize money" until you decide what position every club is in.
==================================================
Am I correct in understanding that this "prize money" is already paid out in tranches? If so, on what basis is such distribution undertaken? Based on the position of the club at the time?
If so, why not just do the same now – holding back a percentage of the overall prize pool sufficient to cover any possible positional changes.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.