Spot the difference?

Bybroganrogantrevinoandhogan

Spot the difference?

Good Afternoon.

Announcing outstanding financial successes for Rangers PLC the then Chairman of the club opened his Chairman’s report in the annual financial statements with the following words:

“Last summer I explained that the Club, after many years of significant investment in our playing squad
and more recently in our state of the art facility at Murray Park, had embarked on a three year business
plan to stabilise and improve the Club’s finances. The plan also recognised the need to react to the
challenging economic conditions facing football clubs around the world.

Following a trend over a number of years of increasing year on year losses, I am pleased to report that
in the first year of this plan we have made important progress by reversing this trend. Our trading loss
for last year of £11.2m reflects a £7.9m improvement versus the £19.1m loss for the previous year and
although it will take more time to completely reach our goals, this is a key milestone. We also intend to
make significant further progress by the end of the current financial year. This improvement is the
consequence of having a solid strategy and the commitment and energy to implement the changes it requires”

Later on in the same statement the chairman would add:

“Another key part of our plan is associated with the Rangers brand and our Retail Division goes from strength to strength. Our financial results this year have been significantly enhanced by an outstanding performance in merchandising Rangers products, in particular replica kit, which makes our Retail Division one of the most successful in Europe.”

In the same set of financial reports, the CEO would report:

“To further strengthen Rangers hospitality portfolio, a new dedicated sponsor’s lounge was unveiled this season. The Carling Lounge is a first for the Club and was developed in conjunction with our new sponsor, Carling. ”

and

“Our innovative events programme continues to grow and this year saw a record number of official events including the highly successful annual Hall of Fame Awards Ceremony, Player of the Year and 50 Championships Gala Dinner, all of which catered for up to 1000 guests.

At Rangers, we continually develop our portfolio of products and as a key area of income for the Club, we evaluate the market for new revenue opportunities on an ongoing basis in order to exceed our existing and potential customer expectations and needs.

Demand for season tickets reached an all time high last season with a record 42,508 season ticket holders in comparison with the previous season`s figure of 40,320. Over 36,000 of these season ticket holders renewed for this season – a record number.

For the new season, we are delighted to welcome brewing giant, Carling on board as our Official Club sponsor. Carling is one of the UK’s leading consumer brands with a proven track record in football sponsorship.
The Club also continues to work with a number of multinational blue chip brands such as National Car Rental, Sony Playstation 2, Bank of Scotland and Coca-Cola. This year, we will also experience the evolution of the Honda deal via Hyndland Honda and welcome the mobile communications giant T-Mobile to our ranks.”.

The year was 2003 and in the previous 24 months Rangers Football Club, owned and operated as a private fiefdom by Sir David Murray, had made operational losses of some £30 million.

Yes – 30 MILLION POUNDS.

Of course the chairman’s report for 2003 was written by John F Mclelland CBE and the CEO was one Martin Bain Esq.

As Mr Mclelland clearly stated, by 2003 the club already had a trend of increasing year on year losses covering a number of years and was losing annual sums which stretched into millions, if not tens of millions, of pounds.

However, the acquisition of Rangers Football Club was absolutely vital to David Murray’s personal business growth, and his complete control of the club as his own private business key was more important than any other business decision he had made before buying Rangers or since.

When he persuaded Gavin Masterton to finance 100% of the purchase price of the club, Murray had his finest business moment.

By getting control of Rangers, Murray was able to offer entertainment, hospitality, seeming privilege and bestow favour on others in a way that was hitherto undreamed of, and he bestowed that largesse on any number of “existing and potential clients” and contacts – be they the clients and contacts related to Rangers Football Club or the existing and potential clients of David Murray, his businesses, his banks, or anyone in any field that he chose to court for the purposes of potential business.

His business.

It wasn’t only journalists who benefited from the succulent lamb treatment.

Accountants,lawyers, surveyors, broadcasters, football officials, people in industry and construction, utilities, financiers and other areas of business were all invited inside the sacred House of Murray and given access to the great man of business “and owner of Rangers” while attending the “record number of official (hospitality) events”.

Twelve months on from when John McLelland made those statements in the 2003 accounts, David Murray was back in the chair at Ibrox and he presented the 2004 financials.

In the intervening 12 months Rangers had gained an additional £10 million from Champions League income and had received £8.6 million in transfer fees from the sale of Messrs Ferguson, Amoruso and McCann. Not only that, the Rangers board had managed to reduce the club’s wage bill by £5 million. Taking all three figures together comes to some £23.6 million in extra income or savings.

Yet, the accounts for 2004 showed that the club made an operational loss of almost £6 million and overall debt had risen by an additional £7 million to £97.4 million.

However, the 2004 accounts were also interesting for another reason.

Rangers PLC had introduced payments “to employees trusts” into their accounts for the first time in 2001 and in that year they had paid £1million into those trusts. Just three years later, the trust payments recorded in the accounts had risen to £7.3 million per annum — or to put it another way to 25% of the annual wage bill though no one in Scottish Football asked any questions about that!

By the following year, the chairman announced that the 2004 operational loss had in fact been £10.4million but that the good news was that the 2005 operational loss was only £7.8 million. However Rangers were able to post a profit before taxation if they included the money obtained from transfers (£8.4 million) and the inclusion of an extraordinary profit of £14,999,999 made on buying back the shares of a subsidiary company for £1 which they had previously sold for £15 million.

All of which added up to a whopping great profit of ……… £12.4 million!

I will leave you to do the maths on 2005.

Oh and of course these accounts included the detail that 3000 Rangers fans had joined David Murray in participating in the November ’94 share issue where the club managed to raise £51,430,995 in fresh capital most of which was provided by Mr Murray… sorry I mean MIH ….. sorry that should read Bank of Scotland …… or their shareholders……. or should that be the public purse?

The notable items in the 2006 accounts included the announcement of a ten year deal with JJB Sports to take over the merchandising operation of the club and increased revenue from an extended run in the Champion’s League. However, the profit before tax was declared at only£0.1 million in comparison to the £12.4 million of the year before but then again that £12.4 million had included player sales of £8.4 million and the £15 million sweety bonus from  the repurchase of ones own former subsidiary shares for £1.

Jumping to 2008 Rangers saw a record year in terms of turnover which had risen to £64.5 million which enabled the company to record a profit on ordinary activities before taxation of  £6.57 million although it should be pointed out that wages and bonuses were up at 77% of turnover and that a big factor in the Rangers income stream was corporate hospitality and the top line of income was shown as “gate receipts and hospitality”.

However, 2009 saw a calamitous set of figures. Whilst Alastair Johnston tried to put a brave chairman’s face on it, the year saw an operating loss of £17.325 million which was softened only by player disposals leading to a loss before taxation of a mere £14.085 million.

Fortunately Sir David did not have to report these figures as he chose to stand down as chairman in August and so Johnston stepped in and announced that he was deeply honoured to do so.

In 2010, the income stream jumped from £39.7 million to over £56 million with the result that the club showed a profit before taxation of £4.209 million.

However, by that time the corporate hospitality ticket that was Rangers Football Club was done for as a result of matters that had nothing to do with events on the football field in the main.

First, the emergence of the Fergus McCann run Celtic had brought a real business and sporting challenge. This was something that Murray had not previously faced in the football business.

Second,the Bank of Scotland had gone bust and Lloyds could not and would not allow Murray to continually borrow vast sums of money on the basis of revalued assets and outrageous hospitality.

Third, the UEFA fair play rules came into being and demanded that clubs at least act on a semblance of proper corporate governance and fiscal propriety.

Lastly,Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs tightened up the law on the use of EBT’s which meant that Rangers could no longer afford to buy in the players that brought almost guaranteed success against domestic opposition.

On average, since 2002 Rangers PLC had lost between £7 million – £8 million per year – or roughly £650,000 per month if you like – yet for the better part of a decade David Murray had been able to persuade the Bank of Scotland that this was a business that was worthy of ever greater financial support or that he himself and his MIH business was of such value that the Banks should support him in supporting the Ibrox club whilst operating in this fashion.

Of course, had Murray’s Rangers paid tax on all player remunerations then the losses would have been far larger.

Meanwhile, all the other clubs in Scottish football who banked with the Bank of Scotland faced funding cuts and demands for repayment with the bank publicly proclaiming that it was overexposed to the football market in Scotland.

But no one asked any questions about why the bank should act one way with Murray’s club but another way with all others. No one in football, no one in the media and no one from the world of business.

Looking back,it is hard to imagine a business which has been run on such a consistent loss making basis being allowed to continue by either its owners or by its bankers. However, a successful and funded Rangers was so important to the Murray group that David Murray was clearly willing to lose millions year after year to keep the Gala dinners and corporate hospitality going.

Rangers were Murray’s big PR vehicle and the club was essentially used by him to open the doors which would allow him to make more money elsewhere on a personal basis and if it meant Rangers cutting every corner and accumulating massive losses, unsustainable losses, then so be it.

Today, the new regime at Ibrox run the current business in a way which clocks up the same colossal annual losses whilst the club competes outwith Scotland’s top division. Each day we hear that the wage bill is unsustainable, that the playing staff are overpaid, that the stadium needs massive investment and that the fans are opposed to the stadium itself being mortgaged and the club being in hawk to lenders.

Yet, in the Murray era the Stadium was revalued time and time again and its revaluation was used as the justification for ever greater borrowing on the Rangers accounts. The playing staff were massively overpaid and financially assisted by the EBT’s and most years the Chairman’s annual statement announced huge losses despite regular claims of record season ticket sales, record hospitality income, European income, shirt sponsorship and the outsourcing of all merchandising to JJB sports instead of Sports Direct.

The comparison between the old business and the current one is clear for all to see.

It should be noted, that since the days of Murray, no major banking institution has agreed to provide the Ibrox business with any banking facilities. Not under Whyte, not under Green, not under anyone.

Yet few ask why that should be.

The destruction of the old Rangers business led those in charge of Scottish football to announce that Armageddon was on the horizon if it had not actually arrived, yet today virtually all Scottish clubs are in a better financial and business state than back in the bad old days of the Bank of Scotland financed SPL. Some have succumbed to insolvency, and others have simply cut their cloth, changed their structure, sought, and in some cases attracted, new owners and moved on in terms of business.

In general, Scottish Football has cleaned house at club level.

Now, David Murray has “cleaned house” in that MIH has bitten the dust and walked down insolvency road.

What is interesting is that the Murray brand still has that capacity to get out a good PR message when it needs to. Despite the MIH pension fund being short of money for some inexplicable reason, last week it was announced that the family controlled Murray Estates had approached those in charge of MIH and had agreed to buy some key MIH assets for something in the region of £13.9 million.

The assets concerned are land banks which at some point will be zoned for planning and which will undoubtedly bring the Murray family considerable profit in the future, with some of those assets already looking as if they will produce a return sooner rather than later.

However, what is not commented upon in the mainstream press is the fact that Murray Estates had the ability to pay £13.9 Million for anything at all and that having that amount of money to spend the Murray camp has chosen not to buy any football club down Govan way.

Perhaps, it has been realised that a football club which loses millions of pounds each year is not such a shrewd investment and that the Murray family money would be better spent elsewhere?

Perhaps, it has been realised that the culture of wining, dining, partying and entertaining to the most lavish and extravagant extent will not result in the banks opening their vaults any more?

Perhaps, it has been realised that the Rangers brand has been so badly damaged over the years that it is no longer the key to the golden door in terms of business, finance and banking and that running a football club in 2015 involves a discipline and a set of skills that David Murray and his team do not have experience of?

What is clear, is that the Murray years at Ibrox were not good for the average Rangers fan in the long term and that when you have a football club – any football club – being run for the private benefit of one rich individual, or group of individuals, then the feelings and passions of the ordinary fan will as often as not be forgotten when that individual or his group choose to move on once they have decided that they no longer wish to play with their toy football club.

David Murray did not make money directly out of Rangers Football Club. He used it as a key to open other doors for him and to get him a seat at other tables and into a different type of “club” altogether. He did not run the club in a day to day fashion that was designed to bring stability and prolonged financial, or playing, success to the club. its investors and its fans. He did not preside over Ibrox during a period of sustained financial gain.

Mike Ashley will not subsidise 2015 version of Rangers to anything like the same extent that the Bank of Scotland did in the 90’s and naughties.

However, Ashley, like Murray, will use his control of the Rangers brand to open doors for him elsewhere in the sports retail market, and he will use the Rangers contract with Sports Direct to make a handsome profit. He will also control all the advertising revenue just as he does at Newcastle. In short, Mr Ashley is only interested in The Rangers with a view to using it as a stepping stone to achieve other things elsewhere.

However, don’t take my word for any of this, take the opinion of someone who knows.

Mr Dave King is quoted today as saying the following about the current board of Directors who are in charge of the current Ibrox holding company.

“History will judge this board as one of the worst the club has ever had. There is not one individual who puts the club above personal interest.”

That is an interesting observation from a man who became a non executive director of the old Rangers holding company in 2000 and who had a front row pew for every set of accounts and all the financial statements referred to above.

Whether or not Mr King is a glib and shameless liar is a matter of South African judicial opinion. Whether or not he can spot someone who puts their own self interest ahead of the interests of Rangers Football Club and the supporters of the club is a matter that should be discussed over some fine wine, some succulent lamb and whatever postprandial entertainment you care to imagine.

I wonder if he has ever read the accounts of Rangers PLC and compared them to the corresponding accounts of MIH for the same period?

 

About the author

broganrogantrevinoandhogan author

Boot wearing football, sport & total nonsense fan-- Gourmet, Bon Viveur and eedgit! - Oh and I write a bit occasionally!

4,992 Comments so far

BrendaPosted on7:51 am - Feb 3, 2015


Ashley’s actions and the weekend fiasco etc etc the only decisive thing the sfa can do is withdraw licence to play??? Will they do it ??? NO 😉 public safety reasons so that’ll be that then 😕

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4424mePosted on8:11 am - Feb 3, 2015


Sevco supporters this morning remind me of the wee car park attendant with the limp angrily making his way towards you gesticulating that “ye canny park there”, until he gets a wee bung, slips it into his coat pocket and retreats with a “dont mind if i do sir, “

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redlichtiePosted on8:18 am - Feb 3, 2015


What does undue influence over two clubs look like?

Lending five players from one to the other I would have thought. Especially when the receiving club is totally broke.

Scottish Football needs these registrations put on hold pending the results of the upcoming hearing into MA. Anything less is a dereliction of duty towards the integrity of the Scottish game. Ha!

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@ModgePKRPosted on8:24 am - Feb 3, 2015


When is a loan not a loan?

a) When it was advanced by Masterton to MIH

b) When it’s from a Trust set up to Benefit Employees

c) When it’s to a club who then use the proceeds to pay players from another of your clubs, thereby simultaneously reducing the wage bill of the latter whilst draining the former’s cash reserves back to the level they were at before they borrowed from you, effectively ensuring the security gained from such borrowings came at no cost to the lender.

Answers on a postcard…

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readceltPosted on8:42 am - Feb 3, 2015


Could it be the loan players are an additional burden on an already stretched budget, ensuring a faster cash burn and additional requirement for securitised loans?

What TRFC have left to offer as security if Ibrox is already tied up as security on the initial loan to purchase the assets is beyond me?

As mentioned before, you could hive off services to Newcastle, but what’s left?

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MaBawPosted on8:42 am - Feb 3, 2015


Bad Capt Madman, you forgot about the £250,000 fine that can be paid when you want.

A hearing into alleged breaches of SFA rules by Rangers and Mike Ashley scheduled for 27th January has been postponed…should have added until after the transfer window.

Did MA wait until the last minute or was he told transfer them at the last minute ? Was the meeting postponed and a conference call arranged because the SFA were told nobody would be participating ?

Until we have a complete clear out at the SFA and SPFL there can be no trust in the management of our game.

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GoosyGoosyPosted on8:47 am - Feb 3, 2015


Whats the betting these loanees will exhaust the cash pile so that the EGM takes place in a crisis loan situation?

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readceltPosted on8:50 am - Feb 3, 2015


Reminds me of wolf of wall st quoting goodfellas.

‘You know the routine. Mobsters shake down, say, a restaurant owner. They drink all the booze and eat all they want and pay nothing. They rob the cash register. They even go out and borrow money against the place and spend it. When they’ve finally bled the thing dry and the business is about to collapse, they burn the place down and collect the insurance money.’

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AllyjamboPosted on9:13 am - Feb 3, 2015


After Romanov abused/took advantage of the player loan facility I presumed that in forming the SPFL steps would have been taken to close that particular door. Something that hadn’t been seen before, and so hadn’t been envisaged, should have been blocked when the opportunity came along. The opportunity to close a loophole was missed.

Now we have this ludicrous situation where a club can go from borderline insolvency to fielding half a team of players on salaries commensurate with those paid to young talent in the richest league in the world.

One, maybe two would have been questionable, but five? This seems more like a challenge to the SFA to create a situation that will either blow Ashley’s plans apart, or set him up to rule Scottish football, or use it to his own financial ends, as he sees fit.

Why wait until so late before completing the deals, too? There could have been little, or no problem, with the terms, it was surely a done deal from the minute it entered Ashley’s head. Why not before the semi, didn’t they want to reach the final? Perhaps not, for contractual reasons, but with everything lined up everything could have been concluded by mid-day and not left to a point where unforssen delays could have scuppered things. That seems to me to have been deliberate, to perhaps create pressure on the SFA by leaving little decision making time. There is always the possibility, though, that they had tried to register the players earlier and there was much debating amongst the beaks before a decision was forced upon them!

There will be much debating on this latest Ibrox ‘financial and sporting advantage’ doping combined with the dual ownership issue over the coming weeks, and it’ll be interesting to see what the clubs now most seriously disadvantaged do about it.

One thing this must do, though, is lend weight to the football authorities case (if they do actually care enough) for taking action against the club over dual ownership, especially if it goes to a tribunal or court case, as there can be no doubt that Ashley’s influence goes right onto the field of play.

Of course, if the SFA had had any guts, or integrity, they would have already told the club that all player registration was suspended until the dual ownership situation had been sorted out. Might have encouraged compliance with the SFA wishes!

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4424mePosted on9:33 am - Feb 3, 2015


Allyjambo….the sfa will probably announce that as a punishment. No more players to be signed until the window opens again in the summer…that will show them

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tayredPosted on9:37 am - Feb 3, 2015


Leaving the registration until the very last minute does seem strange, I doubt they had any reason to think that the SFA would have kicked up a fuss. The reason for not doing it before the semi final is clear – Celtic are too powerful to mess with, they would have kicked up a fuss. If the semi was against Aberdeen or Utd or anyone else then things might have been different.

Of course I could be more cynical and wonder if Celtic had warned them that they wouldn’t stand by and allow it, but if they waited until after the semi then fine, it might help ensure more firm matches next year.

But that would be awful cynical of me, and I’m doubtful that that would be the case, just putting it out there though. Lawell is missing 10m quid after all, he wants them back.

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EstebanPosted on9:37 am - Feb 3, 2015


Things are different now.

This is not a straight two-way fight between Ibrox (plus the SFA) and the rest of Scottish football. If it were like the bad old days, Mike Ashley, by virtue of being the Mr Rangers du jour, would have enjoyed all the grace and favour the SFA and the Scottish media could throw at him. It’s not happening now because the real Rangers men want real Rangers men.

In the bad old days, they did what they liked and we were all told to be quiet and stop being paranoid. These days, if the SFA panders to Mike Ashley, it runs the risk of further marginalising the real Rangers men. And if it doesn’t, Mike Ashley might walk away and leave them high and dry, unless the real Rangers men find the £40 million Phil was talking about to persuade Mike to go quietly and let them pick up the pieces.

Mike is clearly trying to provoke the SFA. This suggests he wants things to come to a head. He has them stitched up like a kipper.

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bad capt madmanPosted on9:41 am - Feb 3, 2015


So no one in the SFA thinks the sectarian singing at the Sunday semi final needs investigating?? Really? It was heard in over 50 countries apparently. Do rules not apply to TRFC?
(Serious question actually, no laughing at the back)

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EstebanPosted on9:44 am - Feb 3, 2015


GoosyGoosy says:
February 3, 2015 at 8:47 am

I think that too. I think it ties in with Mike Ashley pushing play towards the end-game. However, there are suggestions that NUFC will still be paying these boys’ wages. One of them is said to be on £18k per week.

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wottpiPosted on9:55 am - Feb 3, 2015


bad capt madman says:
February 3, 2015 at 12:43 am

My last rant is one echoing a previous post about the SFA referring / blaming the Hampden Co for the state of the pitch probably hoping that no-one remembered that Regan and Ogilvie are directors of the Hampden Co.
Unbelievable.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

C’mon Bawsman, time to email Daryl again and see if he can pop along the corridor and ask a few awkward questions being the SFA have some internationals coming up next month.

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tomtomPosted on9:59 am - Feb 3, 2015


bad capt madman says:
February 3, 2015 at 9:41 am
2 0 Rate This

So no one in the SFA thinks the sectarian singing at the Sunday semi final needs investigating?? Really? It was heard in over 50 countries apparently. Do rules not apply to TRFC?
(Serious question actually, no laughing at the back)
============================================
The SFA will, as always, do nothing. Police Scotland have already stated that the VAST majority of fans were well behaved. However, if you break down the numbers, you have 50,000 fans attending. Split 50/50 gives you 25,000 per side. 20,000, or 40%, of one side behave appallingly. That means that 30,000, or 60%, behaved well. Seems like an overwhelming majority to me. Of course an old cynic like me would say that this was abusing the statistics but who cares about me when the truth can be so easily distorted to suit.

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joburgt1mPosted on10:04 am - Feb 3, 2015


Brenda says:
February 3, 2015 at 7:51 am
14 3 Rate This

Ashley’s actions and the weekend fiasco etc etc the only decisive thing the sfa can do is withdraw licence to play??? Will they do it ??? NO 😉 public safety reasons so that’ll be that then 😕

——————-

Didn’t the SFA say that the pitch at ‘Hampdump’ wasn’t their problem as it wasn’t their competition??
By the same token public safety isn’t their problem either, that’s what Police Scotland are for. Think the SFA need a better excuse.

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bad capt madmanPosted on10:07 am - Feb 3, 2015


Tomtom – of course there is no chance of any real punishment, but they could at least pretend to investigate?? It might even be worth it as a sop to pr or even a deterrent / warning.
To do absolutely nothing is a shameful abrogation of their responsibilities and duties.

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Danish PastryPosted on10:12 am - Feb 3, 2015


Imminent rule change: 5 subs per match in the SC? Seems fair, after all, some clubs have more players than they know what to do with 😆

It’s no longer a pantomime, it’s a comedy series. ‘Allo, Allo’, might be an apt title, especially after Sunday 😳

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wottpiPosted on10:14 am - Feb 3, 2015


Re the Newcastle loanees if I recall correctly Chairman Somers said the loan money from SD would be used to strengthen the footballing side of operations.

Therefore, as other have said, could it be that Ashley is just dumping his Newcastle wage bill onto T’Rangers in exchange for security over assests and if things go well he gets his cash back anyway while perhaps increasing the chances of promotion this season which leads to an improved chance of fan acceptance, season ticket sales up and special edition ‘back where we belong’ celebratory strips and merchandise.

Unless the SFA do something about the dual interest issue I’d say it looks like a good move for the board with a possible EGM coming up.

The Ashley camp can say, as was detailed the other day at the fans meeting re the onerous strip contracts etc,
“Look we have really inherited a shambles. We are the real deal here and will be sorting it out but through Mr Ashley’s connections we can gain access to reasonable players that otherwise the club could not afford while we try and right the ship. Yes Mr Ashley wants a slice of the cake but he is the best hope that there will be a team in blue playing out of Ibrox and that over time this will be a profitable and sustainable business in the same manner he runs Newcastle. PS – The other mob who have no experience of running a modern footballing operation just want to go back to the old days spend spend spend and you know how that ends up”

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ecobhoyPosted on10:32 am - Feb 3, 2015


tayred says:
February 3, 2015 at 9:37 am

Lawell is missing 10m quid after all, he wants them back.
=============================================================
It is obvious to me that it isn’t just PL that wants them back but the ovewhelming majority of Celtic fans at least from the conversations I have had and what I witnessed at the weekend.

It might be fine to sit on an internet forum and discuss all the valid reasons about why it’s bad for Scottish football and society that the return of the ‘Old Firm’ inevitably brings. No matter what it’s called in the future the fans – from both sides – will largely retain the old attitudes.

That is the reality and was clearly shown in the demand for Hampden tickets – I could have given my ticket away to well over 20 Celtic supporters in my local pub and I didn’t because I had no intention of purchasing my allocated ticket and made that clear to my club.

The crowd in the pub on match day was the biggest I’ve seen since the very early games of this season and there was much more emotion/nasty remarks than at any other game since Rangers were last in the top flight.

That’s the reality – it can be argued that the SMSM set the stage and fuelled the aggro. Certainly a significant contributing factor IMO. But it does raise the issue of a disconnect between the wider Celtic support and a lot of posters here and elsewhere on the net and I include myself in that sector.

At the moment it appears that Rangers may have a chance of promotion through the play-offs but that is probably dependent on how the loanees perform. I have little doubt that without them the present squad simply couldn’t win promotion.

The dogs in the street knew about the strong possibility of a NUFC squad of loan players being drafted-in and the SFA could have acted to tell Rangers/Ashley that it wasn’t on. They had time to introduce a new rule or tell Ashley that they would use their discretionary power to block it.

They may well yet do so because this potentially is clearer financial doping IMO than the EBTs. What happens in the summer – does Rangers get another 5-10 NUFC loan players to replace the mass exodus of out-of-contract players at Ibrox?

But I think it’s important that any decision on this issue is done for the good governance of the Scottish Game and not simply seen as another way of putting obstacles in the way of Rangers getting promotion in accord with not simply the rules but also the spirit behind those rules.

It would be a travesty for our game that a club which is a financial basket case could theoretically end-up with a first team squad of players from another club whose ‘owner’ is currently facing charges over his alleged undue influence in a Scottish club.

This issue is a critical test for not only the Hampden Suits but for every single club in the SPFL – if they sit back and allow this then the sooner we end-up with a franchise system the better because then we can all make-up our mind whether we want to support it or not.

Personally if it comes to that then I’ll be off and I’m sure I won’t be alone. It really is up to ALL clubs to find a voice and a backbone on this one – and soon!

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oddjobPosted on10:47 am - Feb 3, 2015


Well, we’ve had “Oldco” and “Newco”, now we’ve got “Newcastleco”. Maybe put an end to a lot of arguments !

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Jungle JimPosted on10:59 am - Feb 3, 2015


ecobhoy says:
February 3, 2015 at 10:32 am
—————————————————–
It’s a strange one. I have often said that I have enjoyed the football more since Rangers were ‘off our radar’. I’ve said that Scottish football and indeed Scottish society as a whole could well do without the baggage that comes with these games. I still believe that to be true.

Yet I have to confess that when boarding my supporters bus on Sunday morning to make the journey to Hampden there was a sense of excitement and anticipation the like of which hasn’t been felt for 3 years.

The joy when the goals went in and the celebrations on our return to our local CSC where we celebrated the victory were also like nothing we have experienced since they were liquidated.

The Celtic fans were singing ‘You’re not Rangers any more’ but it sure felt like they were.

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EstebanPosted on11:03 am - Feb 3, 2015


Ecobhoy and Jungle Jim

Your experiences of Sunday mirror mine. I have been consoling myself with the thought that there was an element of it being the first time of looking at this particular fairground attraction and, as the game was poor, it might not take long for fans to save that level of excitement up for games against Inter and, yes, Aberdeen at Celtic Park at the end of the month. Those will be more meaningful and, I hope, better spectacles.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:05 am - Feb 3, 2015


wottpi says:
February 3, 2015 at 10:14 am

Re the Newcastle loanees if I recall correctly Chairman Somers said the loan money from SD would be used to strengthen the footballing side of operations.
———————————————————–
I posted after I first read that statement by Somers as it puzzled me. In retrospect I was being a bit naive as I had missed the fact that it could easily mean that part of the Ashley ‘loan’ could pay the wages of loan players shipped-up to Ibrox.

What has also struck me is that the £5 or £10 million ‘loan’ wouldn’t be actually paid to TRFCL in cash but is simply a book-keeping transaction from NUFC charging TRFCL a rental per month for each player.

Obviously the higher the ‘rental’ to sooner the £5 or £10 million will be exhausted. At the end of the day the loan players were on NUFC’s books for their full wages anyway so it doesn’t really matter if Rangers wind-down the SD loan to zilch and can’t keep paying.

SD just arrange another loan putting TRFCL more into the financial mire and in reality SD would have needed to pay the wagres for its players if they hadn’t been loaned-out.

Pluses for SD are obvious and they could increasingly and quickly become an important creditor of TRFCL/RIFC and even if there is a default it can be written-off by NUFC and probably save a bit of tax 😆

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ecobhoyPosted on11:09 am - Feb 3, 2015


Esteban says:
February 3, 2015 at 11:03 am

Ecobhoy and Jungle Jim

Your experiences of Sunday mirror mine. I have been consoling myself with the thought that there was an element of it being the first time of looking at this particular fairground attraction and, as the game was poor, it might not take long for fans to save that level of excitement up for games against Inter and, yes, Aberdeen at Celtic Park at the end of the month. Those will be more meaningful and, I hope, better spectacles.
———————————————————-
Please believe me – I live for that day. Our biggest obstacles aren’t the fans IMO but the SFA and to a lesser extent the SPFL and then – of course – the useless lackeys employed by the SMSM.

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scapaflowPosted on11:11 am - Feb 3, 2015


ecobhoy says:
February 3, 2015 at 10:32 am

Its a hackneyed phrase, but The Clubs, and the SFA/SPFL senior management are drinking in the last chance saloon.

As you say, these “inter-company” player loans, are obvious, in your face, examples of financial doping.

If the clubs fail to force the governing bodies to act, (because the governing bodies will not act otherwise), then we will be left with a form of football, where big money does what it likes, and everyone else lives on the table scraps.

If a lot of Celtic and other club’s fans are fine with that, then so be it.

Just don’t whine when the consequences hit home.

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bfbpuzzledPosted on11:26 am - Feb 3, 2015


If TRFC are NUFC B perhaps the Spanish system used with Real Madrid and Barcelona b teams should be used where their B teams are not allowed promotion to the top league (I recognise that the two teams mentioned are barred from having their b teams in the same division rather than not being allowed promotion to the top league but in practice that is the effect)
There have been semi formal arrangements like this before- Clyde had several loaned players from Wimbledon at the same time who went on to sign permanently but this TRFC arrangement kills integrity and the spirit of the law. This time they are using their own money and converting it to OPM after obtaining it from the OP that is both self abuse and a mockery.

In more than one sense the jig is up if they are allowed repeat financial and sporting doping. It seems that they do not learn because they do not need to learn. In their world finanancial doping good FFP bad.

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EstebanPosted on11:28 am - Feb 3, 2015


ecobhoy says:
February 3, 2015 at 11:09 am

I know, but the next time they blow the big fanfare,if there is a next time, a good number of people might recall that Sunday’s was one of the worst games any of us has ever seen and be more circumspect.

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EstebanPosted on11:31 am - Feb 3, 2015


A wee prediction.

If any of the Newcastle boys turns out to be a good player, which is entirely feasible, he will be swiftly diagnosed as having come down with Rangersitis, with headlines containing the phrase ‘Blue Heaven’ and the laddie pleading to be allowed to stay.

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TailothebankPosted on11:44 am - Feb 3, 2015


Some very good posts on the Implications of the loan moves.

Here we go yet again..fundamental Q…Who is running Scottish football?

The incompetent crew at Hampden or the clubs led by the big ones?
If the SFA won’t take strong action and stop Ashley in his tracks ..and they won’t because his legal team will most probably drive a coach thru their Mickey mouse ‘ rule’ book ..What are the clubs going to do ?

Really serious consideration has to be given to the 41 clubs walking away and forming a new association ..get new ‘clean’ people of integrity respected by the public ..and get a complete revision and new set of robust rules put in place over the next few years..

We go on and on on this forum about how Rangers as currently constructed are knackered and will only get fixed properly by effectively starting again…well you know what ? let us all look in the mirror..because we are in exactly the same place with the SFA etc..
Their crime count mounts on a daily basis….and it only getting worse .
As others have posted..This will go on forever unless the clubs act….
NEW STRONG GOVERNING BODY THAT WONT BE MESSED AROUND NEEDED URGENTLY !

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tayredPosted on11:45 am - Feb 3, 2015


Esteban says:
February 3, 2015 at 11:28 am

Unfortunately, I think it will take several dire games along the lines of Sunday before the game loses its so-called edge. It’s so engrained in a part of Scottish society that frankly the quality of the football is irrelevant to many. Repeats of Sunday will see the blue side dwindle, but not as quick as you would expect if it were any other fixture.

The football is a side show to many, to them it just provides a reason to bring the congregations together. Alas, the biggest addicts are the SMSM who will continue to peddle the fairy tale for as long as they possibly can, for they lack the imagination to see any other alternative.

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GoosyGoosyPosted on12:06 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Tincks says:
February 2, 2015 at 11:33 pm
According to the record:
“Gael Bigirimana, Melingo Kevin Mbabu, Shane Ferguson, Haris Vuckic and Remie Streete all confirmed on loan until the end of the season at Rangers from Newcastle United.”
The question is. Who’s paying the wages? Are TRFC getting subsidised players or is MA lending them money to help subsidise the NUFC wage bill?????
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
IMO
This event has nothing to do with helping TRFC on the park
It`s just business
en route to Ashley getting hold of every single onerous contract at TRFC
The £5m loan put in place recently is intended to threaten King and the 3B with liquidation if they look like winning the EGM vote . The assets would then be bought by Ashley (Sarver) and the purchase price loaded onto TRFC as more debt
Meanwhile these loan deals are about loading up TRFC with debt so that future “loans” can be accounting transfers between NUFC and TRFC making them zero cost to Ashley . He eventually becomes the largest Creditor on a permanent basis
I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if these players were chosen primarily because they are the most expensive of the most useless on the books of NUFC
Likewise,
Leaving McDowall in charge for the Celtic match was probably done in the hope that a good thumping would bring the Bears to heel and split away those wavering about opposing Ashley at the EGM

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BawsmanPosted on12:23 pm - Feb 3, 2015


ecobhoy says:
February 3, 2015 at 11:09 am
5 0 i
Rate This

Esteban says:
February 3, 2015 at 11:03 am

Ecobhoy and Jungle Jim

Your experiences of Sunday mirror mine. I have been consoling myself with the thought that there was an element of it being the first time of looking at this particular fairground attraction and, as the game was poor, it might not take long for fans to save that level of excitement up for games against Inter and, yes, Aberdeen at Celtic Park at the end of the month. Those will be more meaningful and, I hope, better spectacles.
———————————————————-
Please believe me – I live for that day. Our biggest obstacles aren’t the fans IMO but the SFA and to a lesser extent the SPFL and then – of course – the useless lackeys employed by the SMSM.

ecobhoy says:
February 3, 2015 at 11:09 am
5 0 i
Rate This

Esteban says:
February 3, 2015 at 11:03 am

Ecobhoy and Jungle Jim

Your experiences of Sunday mirror mine. I have been consoling myself with the thought that there was an element of it being the first time of looking at this particular fairground attraction and, as the game was poor, it might not take long for fans to save that level of excitement up for games against Inter and, yes, Aberdeen at Celtic Park at the end of the month. Those will be more meaningful and, I hope, better spectacles.
———————————————————-
Please believe me – I live for that day. Our biggest obstacles aren’t the fans IMO but the SFA and to a lesser extent the SPFL and then – of course – the useless lackeys employed by the SMSM.

=============================================================

It’s not THAT long ago when the visits of the New Firm were hugely anticipated and enjoyed on 100% pure football, enjoyment, excitement and entertainment grounds at Celtic Park.

Rangers visited too but the emotions at that fixture were a vast contrast, football is secondary to them, doubt that’ll change. They are stuck in some kind of 17th Century time warp, destined never to be free by the sounds of them on Sunday.

Sumbdy asked if i’d e-mailed Darryl, I sent the following this morning (awaiting response but I don’t usually get one when the answer is difficult):

Good morning Darryl,

Always thought having a Senior Scottish reserve (emerging youth) sides in the lower divisions would ‘add value’ for all parties involved.

Interesting twist having a ‘foreign side’ (Newcastle res.) playing in the Championship. I’d imagine the challengers in that division are none too impressed at this. Who’s picking up the tab for this I wonder? Can’t possibly be the Rangers, they’re already (arguably) trading whilst insolvent.

Regards

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GoosyGoosyPosted on12:31 pm - Feb 3, 2015


A lateral thought
If I controlled two football clubs and was lending players from one club to the other
Can I legally apply an overhead recovery charge to the club receiving the players on loan ?
Could be a nice little earner
A sort of legal onerous contract that creams off a fair percentage on top of the players salary

Wonder if Charles would do such a thing?

He knows a thing or two about onerous contracts

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futbolPosted on12:40 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Danish Pastry says:
February 3, 2015 at 10:12 am

It’s no longer a pantomime, it’s a comedy series. ‘Allo, Allo’, might be an apt title, especially after Sunday 😳

Or perhaps now “Why Aye, Why Aye” …

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MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on12:53 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Tartanwulver says:

February 2, 2015 at 12:38 pm

8

0

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oddjob says:
February 2, 2015 at 12:34 pm

Spain do the same as Germany.
——————————–
They do, and again, they have done rather well in terms of success in qualifying for (not to mention winning) tournaments
____________

Most other countries do this. National stadia are a particularly British quirk

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MoreCelticParanoiaPosted on12:59 pm - Feb 3, 2015


The Cat NR1 says:

February 2, 2015 at 1:42 pm

50

1

Rate This

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31094114

I think Kenny Miller must have been on the sauce before this one.
Perhaps his Old Firm schizophrenia drove him to the Buckie?

“They have got better players because they are playing at that better level.

“They are playing better opposition every week and that makes them a better team,

so I don’t think the gulf is as big as everybody made it out to be.”

Eh?? ❓ ❓ ❓

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HamerdoonPosted on1:08 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Realistically it is Queens and Falkirk that are currently disadvantaged by the loan agreement. But then it will be Motherwell/St Mirren/Ross County – take your pick. And then it will be Dundee/Hamilton/Hearts/Partick/Hibs, followed by Aberdeen/Dundee Utd/ICT etc.

Time to wake up. If Scottish football fans don’t collectively address this, then we deserve all we get. I’ve been talking to some other fans and tbh I’m irritated at the lack of anger: the SFA adjourn a specified hearing and voila, a rabbit appears out the hat shortly thereafter.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, has feathers like a duck – then it’s almost certainly a duck. We all know what is happening here – time to pull the plug on the SFA and SPFL.

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John ClarkPosted on1:09 pm - Feb 3, 2015


I once had a liar as a boss.And if not a liar, then an unprincipled swine of a temporiser and compromiser. One of his favourin
te (and typically unoriginal) sayings was ” I don’ think we need to man
the barricades over that.”
The trouble was that there was never for him ANY issue of principle.!
No right, no wrong.
Fair enough, perhaps, in wee part of a vast bureaucratic machine.
DIFFERENT when the very ‘law makers’ and ‘law enforcers’ of an organisation operate on the same basis of lack of principle, of putting expediency before truth and partisan interest before duty and honour.
Mike Ashley absolutely KNOWS that he is dealing with men whose own actions have shown them to be men of straw, men for whom no one can have anything but contempt when, if, they begin to prate about ‘rules’ or ‘agreements’ to try to thwart him .
He and/or his legals will be right up to the minute with the whoredom of the 5WA ((sounds kind of NUFC-ish!)and with the blindsiding of the LNS enquiry and with the anger of important club owners/directors at all the ‘Armageddon ‘ pish and nonsense as deceivers and unprincipled men sold their own pusillanimous souls and the very rationale of Sport for the sake of what, exactly? In honour of the knighted champion sports cheat ? To placate and toady to a loud-mouthed charlatan, wh
o in the event shafted them right loyally
?I
Ashley has them taped. He can do what he likes, not because he is rich, but because the SFA has shown that they set no value on their own laws or law enforcement powers.
And no Court in the land would lend credence to any arfument they advanced to deny Ashley any control and any exercise of control of TRFC/ RIFC plc.
In my opinion.
The SFA , so determined to save one club from the consequences of its monumental and unparalled cheating khave quite possibly hastened the death of our game.

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mcfcPosted on1:15 pm - Feb 3, 2015


John Clark says:
February 3, 2015 at 1:09 pm

I once had a liar as a boss.And if not a liar, then an unprincipled swine of a temporiser and compromiser. One of his favourite (and typically unoriginal) sayings was ” I don’ think we need to man the barricades over that.”

===========================================================================

JC – I may have worke for the same guy 🙂

One of his favourite outs was “there’s merit in vagueness”.

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mcfcPosted on1:20 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Let’s not forget that the people making the decisions at the SFA are selected by YOUR club. Time to start telling your club that you will be voting with the only vote they understand – your money – and CCing the SFA Board http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_football.cfm?page=2561

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batumi95Posted on1:21 pm - Feb 3, 2015


What is McDowall’s position on these loan players? A real Manager would walk.

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mcfcPosted on1:25 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Will Olivier be called as a witness at Ashley’s SFA hearing?

“Mike Ashley has just “guaranteed” Premiership promotion with signing of the five loan Rangers, says Olivier Bernard ”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mike-ashley-just-guaranteed-premiership-5097256

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batumi95Posted on1:33 pm - Feb 3, 2015


jambocol1874 says:
February 3, 2015 at 12:53 pm

Agree with your assessment of the Captains.
McCulloch has so much form, from the feigned injury after he claimed Beram Kayal’s season to Sunday’s assault on Griffiths.
Brown behaved like a petulant kid at the end of the Ross County game at Celtic Park a few weeks ago, scuffling with guys who had just achieved one of their best results of the season. He also let the club down against Barcelona having a petulant tantrum against Neymar.
Captains should epitomise the essence of a club and always lead by example. Wait a minute, maybe McCulloch is the man for the TRFC job!

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scapaflowPosted on1:38 pm - Feb 3, 2015


mcfc says:
February 3, 2015 at 1:25 pm

I keep expecting Graham Chapman to walk on his brigadier’s uniform and announce “This is all getting very silly”

Inconvenient Truth 1

TRFC actually have a squad which should be good enough to get them out of the Championship, why aren’t they performing?

Inconvenient Truth 2

Every football fan has a tale of x y z player(s) joining a club with great things expected of them, only to see them fail to deliver.

Inconvenient Truth 3

The footballing problems at TRFC, are structural, bringing in new players, without sorting the management/coaching structure, will probably just lead to further embarrassment.

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ParanoidWellFanPosted on1:41 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Pete Lambie says:

February 3, 2015 at 1:33 pm

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0

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GoosyGoosy comment on:
February 3, 2015 at 12:06 pm

I can see your sentiment here, but the Financial LOAN is from SD (IIRC).

The loan of players is from NUFC. Salary payments would either be directly to players now registered to our favorite clumpany, or paid directly to NUFC who would then pay players in turn. On latter, would there by a 90 day wait for invoicing/payment?

At what point does this payment route given Ashely control, or get SD’s money back out sevco?

Other than payment to the onerous 5 as a debt which sevco can’t afford to meet with it’s own funds.

The invoicing route is standard, the players have to remain employees of, and be paid by, the loaning clumpany.
Sevco will have no means of paying these invoices, so they will be notionally ‘paid’ to NUFC by SD, thereby increasing Sevco’s debts to SD, and ensuring their position as major creditor, on terms that will scare off Goldilocks and the 3 Bears

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AyeRightNawPosted on1:46 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Hamerdoon says:
February 3, 2015 at 1:08 pm

Totally agree. As a fellow Queens fan I’m disgusted at the acquisition of 5 loan players from the EPL by a club who has all but re-busted itself to win the 4th then 3rd tier championships in Scotland.

Let’s hear questions being asked publicly by the boards and managers at Queens, Hibs and Falkirk. Make representations before the Ashley hearing and make clear our objections to this continuing unsporting advantage.

View Comment

mcfcPosted on1:47 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Ask YOUR club

A question to put to YOUR club is why the SFA board THEY selected allowed a 77 day delay between the complaint and the hearing concerning Mike Ashley’s involvement in TRFC/RIFC (15 Dec 2014 – 02 Mar 2015). This matter has a direct impact on the sporting integrity and fairness of Scottish football and so time is of the essence. That delay period covers 1 Scottish Cup 5th Round match, One League Cup Semi Final, 7 Championship matches and one transfer window.

Similarly, there is a delay of 91 days for the same complaints against TRFC itself (15 Dec 2014 – 16 Mar 2015). That delay period covers 1 Scottish Cup 5th Round match, One League Cup Semi Final, 9 Championship matches and one transfer window.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2566&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=14215

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incredibleadamsparkPosted on1:51 pm - Feb 3, 2015


It’s a different league so therefore a different set of rules but a few seasons ago Watford had 10 players on loan from Udinese and Granada. This was because the Pozzo family were the owners of Watford, Udinese and Granada. Overseas loans were, for some reason, classed as a transfer so there was no limit to the number you could have. Watford were not at fault here and they broke no rules. They nearly gained promotion that season but the rules were subsequently amended to stop this type of thing happening in the future. Now you are allowed only 5 in the match day squad and only 4 from the same club.

Rangers are not at fault here and have broken no rules regarding the players they have brought in on loan. That can’t be any clearer. As mentioned, Hearts have done something similar in the past, so this is not a Rangers issue. By not having rules to stop this type of thing happening, because it is a loophole and not cheating, means any club that can do this sort of thing to get an advantage probably will.

I think the real issue here is not the loans but the SFAs failure to act swiftly on the duel ownership charges against Mike Ashley. It has allowed an Ashley takeover by stealth and left them looking ridiculous. This situation does not help Rangers. The SFAs inability to simply apply their own rules or establish new ones has created this omnishambles and I feel our focus should be less Rangers-centric and firmly centred on the SFA and their continuous incompetence.

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mcfcPosted on1:58 pm - Feb 3, 2015


scapaflow says:
February 3, 2015 at 1:38 pm

==================================================================

I keep expecting Graham Chapman to walk on his brigadier’s uniform and announce “This is all getting very silly”

==========================================================================

Scapa – Agree – even this may not be enough to get them back to where they think they belong – so watch this space for further honest administrative creativity. It would be hilarious if it was not so sickeningly and transparently corrupt.

Ximinez: NOBODY expects the SFA Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise…surprise and fear…fear and surprise…. Our two weapons are fear and surprise…and ruthless efficiency…. Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency…and an almost fanatical devotion to the Paupers…. Our *four*…no… *Amongst* our weapons…. Amongst our weaponry…are such elements as fear, surprise…. I’ll come in again.

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scapaflowPosted on2:00 pm - Feb 3, 2015


incredibleadamspark says:
February 3, 2015 at 1:51 pm

Agree with you, except :

Is it incompetence, or given that it is the same faces that have been in charge all the way through, a case of very competent enabling? Undermined, from their perspective, obviously, by the equally competent stripping of the carcass by a succession of bottom feeders?

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AyeRightNawPosted on2:04 pm - Feb 3, 2015


incredibleadamspark says:
February 3, 2015 at 1:51 pm

While I agree that the SFA/SPFL are weak and ineffectual, this does not excuse the behaviour of the Govan team. Otherwise it’d be a bit like blaming the police and courts for the existence of criminals.

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TaysiderPosted on2:21 pm - Feb 3, 2015


MoreCelticParanoia says:
February 3, 2015 at 1:15 pm
14 2 Rate This

————————————————
IF the statement released by United this morning is to be believed then the Board didn’t want to sell but had to deal with players who made it very clear they wanted away, most likely influenced by the prospect of a massive wage increase.

It’s all part of football you may say and you would have a point. After all United picked up a promising player from Killie late yesterday. It’s just about where you are in the food chain.

However the reality of this particular money talks situation is that all things being equal, a competitor who, like Celtic, were still competing for three domestic honours, has been seriously weakened. Really if it is within the rules (as I wrote last night) then it’s legitimate isn’t it, whether buying players or taking a number on loan from a very friendly club?

http://dufc.co/news/club-must-always-come-first/

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incredibleadamsparkPosted on2:23 pm - Feb 3, 2015


AyeRightNaw says:
February 3, 2015 at 2:04 pm
______________________________________________________

Do you mean their behaviour regarding the loan players or in general? If it’s the loan players – they have broken no rules. If its general behaviour, when you use the term ‘team from Govan’ do you mean the team (as in the players and manager) or the club (as in the directors) or the fans? And what behaviour do you think I was excusing with my post? Please don’t think me confrontational or pedantic; I’d like to give you an answer, If possible.

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BrendaPosted on2:40 pm - Feb 3, 2015


SFA ……. IMHO ….. Delaying tactics simples…… They don’t know what to do ???? Meanwhile the ‘leaders’ of the other teams in the league sit back and let it happen…… Immediate action is required ….. Only in scotland

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TrisidiumPosted on2:46 pm - Feb 3, 2015


What people are saying about the rules is very true. If no rules have been broken we shouldn’t be pointing a finger at those clubs who take advantage. What you can do is react to flagrant disregard for the spirit of the rules by plugging the gaps. What we might expect of a governing body blessed with the world’s greatest administrator is that they might be proactive in these situations and plan ahead.

What I think is more pertinent is how this deal affects the dynamic with regard to MA’s undue or otherwise influence at Ibrox. We will wait and see how the SFA view it, but to be honest, I can’t see a way past the plausible deniability that Ashley’s lawyers will build into the narrative.

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mcfcPosted on2:51 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Ask YOUR club why they support Michael van Praag for FIFA President

What is his platform? Do they know? Did the SFA ask for their opinion? We can see why Campbell Ogilvie supports MvP – you scratch my back ….

“Why the SFA supports Michael van Praag’s nomination for FIFA presidency”
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/30965/9684977/why-the-sfa-support-michael-van-praags-nomination-for-fifa-presidency

The Dutch FA president has known Campbell Ogilvie, the SFA president, for more than 20 years.

“I believe he is the right candidate at the right time to restore harmony to the game.” says Ogilvie. “We believe Michael has the experience, integrity and gravitas required to expedite the modernisation of world football’s governing body.”

. . . . . . .

The SFA’s nomination has the full approval of UEFA president Michel Platini, but European football’s governing body is not institutionally endorsing any candidate at this stage.

Ogilvie is standing for election onto UEFA’s all-powerful Executive Committee and goes head-to-head with Trefor Lloyd Hughes, the president of the Football Association of Wales.

UEFA’s election will take place in Vienna on March 24.

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GoosyGoosyPosted on3:00 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Pete Lambie says:
February 3, 2015 at 1:33 pm
I can see your sentiment here, but the Financial LOAN is from SD (IIRC).
The loan of players is from NUFC. Salary payments would either be directly to players now registered to our favorite clumpany, or paid directly to NUFC who would then pay players in turn. On latter, would there by a 90 day wait for invoicing/payment?
At what point does this payment route given Ashely control, or get SD’s money back out sevco?
Other than payment to the onerous 5 as a debt which sevco can’t afford to meet with it’s own funds.
,,,,,,,,,,,
Ashley owns most of SD and most if not all of NUFC and all of MASH
Therefore his accountants can structure transfers of costs or loans in the way that best suits the name of the game in any given financial year
If Ashley wants to have 100% of a TRFC loan he gets MASH to lend the money to SD who lend it to TRFC Some legal wording protects his ownership
He has a floating charge which enables him to dictate the choice of Administrator/Liquidator who will be under his instruction in dealing with the assets.
So he maximises the debt owed to TRFC to compel the Liquidator to sell the assets to himself via a pretend purchase by Sarver using Ashley’s money. Probably funnelled to Sarver through some other Ashley cos in what appears to be a standalone separate deal
The only hope for King & Co is to try to get fan support for getting hold of the TRFC license from the SFA. Ashley will be forced to liquidate TRFC A genuine Newco would be formed that has cut its links with Ibrox
With liquidation, King and Co will lose their recent investment but they are going to lose it anyway when Ashely liquidates TRFC to wipe out and gain control of the onerous contracts.
The difference between liquidating now and liquidating on Ashley’s timescale is that the SFA have a valid reason for withdrawing the license
They can blame it on dual ownership when in reality it is also to help King &Co. It’s a one off opportunity for the SFA to clean up this mess by awarding the license to a King funded Newco perhaps playing out of Hampden for a few years
Will it happen?
I doubt it

It will cost the SFA too much grief and King too much money

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tayredPosted on3:06 pm - Feb 3, 2015


TSFM is right. Its not against the rules, so all we can hope for/push for is getting those rules are changed for the future. Unfortunately, if its a FIFA/UEFA rule then there is probably no chance of that. Other than clubs getting together and refusing to play Sevco there is nothing that can be done.

Personally I’m not sure it will make much difference to them, 5 players to further destabilise what must already be a pretty dire atmosphere in the dressing room. Players pushed onto a manager that doesn’t want to be there (probably with the understanding that he has to play them whether he likes t or not), current players presumably being sidelined generating yet more disharmony, etc etc.

Looking at Utd they had two players that possibly always wanted to leave or they may have been destabilised into pushing for this move to celtic. I can’t blame the players, they are probably getting 4-5 times the salary, you can’t blame Utd either, they could hang on and earn next to nothing or they can cash in and reinvest. Its not as if it is anything new, Rangers and Celtic have done it for as long I can remember, and yeah Aberdeen, Utd, Hearts etc have all done it in their own smaller scale. It hurts but there it is.

My worry is that these two players will now occupy the Celtic bench and get 10 minutes here and there in matches. They both have the potential to be good players but I don’t think either of them are there yet and I have reservations that this move will help them get there. We shall see, but there are plenty good prospects gone to the bigger club and vanished. Look at Fyvie now trying with resurrecting his career at Hibs after leaving Scotland far too early – and there are many, many others especially it seems in recent years.

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erniePosted on3:08 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Whilst I look forward to the first brave stadium DJ who plays the overture from William Tell to welcome on the Loan Rangers I have to say that they are perfectly entitled to take the five guys and the loss of any remaining dignity will just exacerbate the bursting of the bubble. Would I say any different if the Dons took in 5 from Manyoo for example? No, it’s pathetic. The Dons have played the loan system over the last few years (Logan, Reynolds, Taylor and now Daniels spring to mind) but we should at least pretend to have the basics of a football club rather than a franchise. It’s done and best of luck to them but it would be good if the SFA were to close down this loophole for the future of our game and they can do so regardless of UEFA/FIFA.
Picking up on JC/MCFC quotes from hopeless bosses, I had one who opined “Indecision is the key to flexibility”. Title of an SFA seminar right there.

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AyeRightNawPosted on3:24 pm - Feb 3, 2015


incredibleadamspark says:
February 3, 2015 at 2:23 pm
1 2 Rate This

AyeRightNaw says:
February 3, 2015 at 2:04 pm
______________________________________________________

Do you mean their behaviour regarding the loan players or in general? If it’s the loan players – they have broken no rules. If its general behaviour, when you use the term ‘team from Govan’ do you mean the team (as in the players and manager) or the club (as in the directors) or the fans? And what behaviour do you think I was excusing with my post? Please don’t think me confrontational or pedantic; I’d like to give you an answer, If possible.

—————————-

Not inferring that you are excusing the team/club/company (I’m not one given to getting into arcane debates on the difference – it is all one to me) just suggesting that the loans deals are the latest example of the unsporting financial doping that has sustained this entity and its predecessor for far too long.

Staying within the rules or law does not equate with staying within the spirit of the game.

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GoosyGoosyPosted on3:32 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Tailothebank says:
February 3, 2015 at 11:44 am
59 0 Rate This

Some very good posts on the Implications of the loan moves.

Here we go yet again..fundamental Q…Who is running Scottish football?

The incompetent crew at Hampden or the clubs led by the big ones?
If the SFA won’t take strong action and stop Ashley in his tracks ..and they won’t because his legal team will most probably drive a coach thru their Mickey mouse ‘ rule’ book ..What are the clubs going to do ?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Have I got this right?
The SFA have a rulebook
The SFA interpret the rules
The SFA control the appeal
A failed appellent can go to the court of Arbitration for Sport
An appellent who uses the civil courts breaks the disciplinary policy of the SFA, UEFA and FIFA
If the appellent wins in a civil court the SFA can continue to withhold the license,His only recourse is to sue for damages. He cannot force restoration of the license
So the SFA can withdraw the license indefinitely
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If this is correct
The ball is at the feet of the SFA and the clubs
They can stop Ashley and the Spivs if they choose to
They can call an EGM and seek a vote of confidence from all member clubs
The have the power
They only have to use it

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mcfcPosted on3:54 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Ask YOUR club

A question to put to YOUR club is why the SFA board THEY selected took 49 days from the £2mil MASH loan to RIFC before making complaints concerning Mike Ashley’s involvement in TRFC/RIFC. (27 Oct 2014 – 15 Dec 2014). http://rangers.g3dhosting.com/regulatory_news_article/407

That delay period covers 1 Scottish Challenge Cup Semi-Final match, 2 Scottish Cup (3rd & 4th Round) matches, and 6 Championship matches.

The same 49 day delay applies to the same complaints made against RIFC itself.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2566&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=14215

From the £2mil MASH loan to RIFC, prima facie evidence of “undue influence” by Ashley, until the hearing is a total of 126 days and 18 matches.

Similarly, for TRFC the delay is 140 days and 20 matches.

Ask YOUR club if this is competent administration in the best interests of YOUR club and the integrity of Scottish football.

Remember – you have the only vote they care about – your money

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StevieBCPosted on3:56 pm - Feb 3, 2015


To extend the loan players scenario further…

What then is to stop NUFC loaning some coaching ‘support’ for the beleaguered McDowall until the end of the season ?

As a wild example: Peter Beardsley is the Football Development Manager at NUFC, bringing through youngsters. He has had some management experience in the past.
He could be seconded to ‘informally assist’ McDowall, but not in any official capacity which could break any SPFL/SFA regulations ?

And someone like Beardsley at Ibrox would certainly generate a buzz, would it not ?

http://www.nufc.co.uk/page/Teams/CoachingStaffIndex

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FinlochPosted on4:07 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Mr Ashley is running rings round them all just like wee Jinky used to.
And if they fight back at things like EGMs he’ll call in his favours and fill his pockets.
Even SFA establishment types have nowhere to go.

It’s his ball.
And his rules too.

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nawlitePosted on4:08 pm - Feb 3, 2015


StevieBC says:

February 3, 2015 at 3:56 pm
____________________________

Stevie, I saw posts on the Bears Den that are suggesting a NUFC coach called somebody Joyce ( I think) is rumoured to be coming. They apparently won’t have Beardsley as he’s a Celtic supporter. Oh and they’re mostly delighted to be getting these 5 loanees as long as they aren’t paying for them (no one seems to know for sure). It’s an OPM thing,

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StevieBCPosted on4:12 pm - Feb 3, 2015


“Rangers fan aged 10 bottled on way to his first ever Old Firm game in tears as he relives ordeal…”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/kieran-duffy-bottled-rangers-celtic–5098605
===========================
Has Doncaster or Regan taken the time to visit this poor lad to explain to him why they believe this fixture had to be ‘resurrected’ and heavily promoted ‘for the good of Scottish football’ ?!

…regardless of any consequences…

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scapaflowPosted on4:13 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Anyone got any info about an Insider Trading complaint to AIM?

Also, Phil teasing about McCoist being paid off before any EGM, It would actually be easy for this bunch to burn through £5m in 4 weeks, just by paying the red bills :mrgreen:

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incredibleadamsparkPosted on4:16 pm - Feb 3, 2015


AyeRightNaw says:
February 3, 2015 at 3:24 pm
________________________________________________

I don’t view the players Rangers have taken on loan as unsporting or financial doping. Hibs are losing money but they brought in Watson from Dundee Utd, Celtic have loaned a few players they probably couldn’t afford to buy, Motherwell, St Mirren and St Johnstone likewise. The list is endless. Sometimes the wages are paid in full, sometimes partly or not at all in some cases. All teams work the system to their advantage.

Five players from one club? Its within the rules but if teams contained more players on loan than their own players I’d start to worry about the spirit of the game. Unfortunately you can’t always rely on teams, players, managers or supporters of any club to act with that in mind. There is nothing that says they have to, sadly. But if there are rules in place and a strong organization overseeing those rules, which the SFA consistently fail to do, that’s as close as we can hope to get, in my opinion.

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joburgt1mPosted on4:16 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Has anybody from the Scottish players union said anything on the 5 loanees? I would really like to know how they see this situation.

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mcfcPosted on4:23 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Dear [Chairperson’s name]

I am a season ticket holder at [your club]. To pay for this and subsequent correspondence, I will refrain from buying food, drink and merchandise at the remaining home matches this season.

I wish to ask you this question. [question here]

Your answers to this and subsequent questions, in terms of content, tone and timeliness, will determine whether I will be a season ticket holder next season.

Yours sincerely

[signed]

CC:
Board of Directors [your club]
• [Chief Executive]
• [Financial Director]
• [Executive Directors]
• [Non-Executive Directors]

Board of Directors, SFA
• Stewart M Regan, Chief Executive
• Campbell Ogilvie, President
• Alan McRae, First vice-president
• Rod Petrie, Second vice-president
• Barrie Jackson, Independent Non Executive Director
• Ralph Topping, SPL chairman
• Tom Johnston, Junior FA President

[as a rule spreading the posting of letters over 2-3 days will lead to more deiscussion between the recipients at one location – some will have received it, some not, leading to more interest amongst late receivers]

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PaulPosted on4:50 pm - Feb 3, 2015


It would seem that as well as last Sunday’s League Cup semi-final being the game “all of Scotland needed and wanted” it was also the game all of Scotland paid for. As the hard-pressed tax-payer was required to fund the 1,000 extra police officers the policing of this game required.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/56-people-reported-to-the-crown-office-following-old-firm-clash.1422977871

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easyJamboPosted on4:51 pm - Feb 3, 2015


Anyone think that Llambias will have prepared two versions of each loan contract?

One will have Newcastle continuing to pay their wages with a nominal contribution from Rangers. The second will have Rangers paying their wages in full (via SD loan cash).

In the event of Ashley losing out on an EGM vote then the second versions will be the ones handed over to the new Board, in line with the debt having been ramped up on Ashley’s loan(s).

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yourhavingalaughPosted on5:25 pm - Feb 3, 2015


5 in,0 out ,now if was one of the present squad that was a fringe player I would realise my time might be up x5 ,not even in a shop window because Sally never gave the youngsters a sniff ,career over for the season ,at least the money is ok,find it strange though the club did not try a little harder to punt the fringe guys out on loan,money can’t be as big a problem as some would like us to think ,zippee de do da zippee de day and so on

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