It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer.
Albert Einstein
The recent flurries of activity regarding the mis-governance of the Scottish Football authorities gave us some hope that perhaps the dam was about to be breached. Sadly, this has not proved to be the case. The independent TOG report, which highlighted the deeply flawed nature of the LNS inquiry and drew attention to the anomalous activities of the SFA in awarding Rangers FC a European competition licence in 2011, moved the discussion beyond the shores of Scotland. Subsequently, a letter from UEFA to lawyers representing Celtic shareholders reportedly confirmed that the licence had been awarded in contravention of the rules and protocols of the competition.
The TOG report concluded that there was a prima facie case suggesting that LNS had been misled, or misinformed. It suggested that Nimmo Smith may have been misled by SFA President Campbell Ogilvie when he gave evidence about the EBTs in operation at Ibrox, and that the SFA were unable or unwilling to ensure fair play in the game in Scotland. With respect to sanctions, LNS concluded that all EBTs were lawful and open to other clubs. This was of course factually incorrect, since despite the suspicious and comical FUBAR of the last-minute change to the terms of reference designed to exclude DOS EBTs, LNS still had sight of them.
The facts are pretty damning for the authorities. Rules were dispensed with over the licence issue, during which there appeared to be a curious request (to Rangers!) by the Chief Executive of the SFA for ‘permission’ to explain the SFA decision. On the SPFL side, terms of reference mentioned above were altered at the onset of the LNS inquiry to allow LNS to exclude the DOS EBTs, a strong indication that LNS was not only misled, but that he was deliberately led to the conclusion that the authorities desired.
The facts are there. So too is a very strong suspicion that evidence was falsified, and that erroneous conclusions were arrived at. The SFA/SPFL/MSM response? Silence. The same people who hold up their hands in horror at the IOC’s decision not to impose a blanket ban on Russia for alleged state-sponsored doping COMPLETELY ignore the cover up by our own authorities in the matter of systematic cheating and financial doping on our own doorstep.
The SFA, SPFL, the clubs, and their little helpers in the press are happy to sit by and enable cheating. Why? Because they see it as in their own interests?
If so. it must be personal self interest. What began as an understandable fear that tens of thousands of paying customers would be lost to the game has evolved into a trousers-at-the-ankles, Rixian farce of a cover-up.
There has been not one sentence of coherent rebuttal received from any of the above constituencies. Neither the SFA, the SPFL, the media, nor the clubs have even attempted to give us any justification for what went on.
The SFA are so rudderless and devoid of purpose that the Chief Executive feels justified in telling a group of people that he wouldn’t be motivated to do anything in response to systematic cheating, and an unremarkable former journalist turned PR operative can exclaim in a perfect study of un-self awareness, “I AM THE SFA!!” – whilst the President of that body smiles in senile obeisance, or childlike ignorance.
Yet those who present facts and ask serious questions about their behaviour are portrayed as bampots? If you weren’t a witness to this stuff as it happens, you would scarcely believe it.
There has been not one sentence of coherent rebuttal received from any of the above constituencies. Neither the SFA, the SPFL, the media, nor the clubs have even attempted to give us any justification for what went on.
Celtic have been (somewhat unfairly on occasion) on the wrong end of criticism from those of us who see the honesty of the game as paramount. They are only one club in a host of clubs whose interests have been crapped on by the failure of governance in the game in Scotland – and yet have done nothing to demonstrate their distaste for the rulebreaking.
David Murray may well have started this, but he fled the scene and lost his influence at Hampden long before the finish. Consequently, the clubs have failed the fans – wilfully so.
The Celtic issue though is more complicated. Unfortunately for them, they have a larger, and commensurately more powerful support than most – and that power was exercised by a group of their own shareholders who sought their own path to truth and justice. The fact that those shareholders gathered compelling evidence of wrongdoing at the SFA, took the trouble to set up official communications with the club, and that they then passed on their concerns along with that compelling evidence – certainly compelling enough to UEFA it seems – speaks volumes for their determination.
Our clubs are just not as invested in sporting integrity as the rest of us
That put Celtic in an uncomfortable place, but the fact that not one word of substance has emanated from them in support of those shareholders – despite the words of encouragement they may or may not have issued privately to the guys who took up the cause on the club’s behalf – is a plain enough message that they like their fellow clubs are just not as invested in sporting integrity as the rest of us.
My wholehearted and comprehensive contempt though is not reserved just for Celtic, despite the moral deficiency which has seen them ignore the excellent efforts of their shareholders to compel them to do the right thing.
My contempt is applied equally and liberally among all the clubs, for they are most deserving of it. We needn’t feel betrayed by the lackeys who run the SFA and SPFL. They do the bidding of the clubs – and the clubs alone.
Nor should we see the media as chief villains. The same media routinely print untruths and misinformation on a daily basis to deliberately mislead us on far more important issues than football. Hardly a betrayal from them – just western democracy.
The clubs tell us that ‘we are all in this together’, but in reality their real attitude is ‘us and them’
Hampden Towers
©Reganco
But that is the game they are playing. Playing for time. Time that they hope will cloud the issue, to make it recede as a morning mist, and disappear completely in time for a free business lunch – business as usual.
Like Einstein says, being ready to spend a little more time on a problem pays dividends. Those with the wind of truth behind them don’t have to be particularly clever. They do have to be willing to spend as much time as necessary on the problem, and let the wind take them to where they need to be.
And they will get there, because those vested interests that deny the truth have (as we have shown) NOTHING to say. It is only a matter of time and patience – and staying on the problem.
It needn’t get nasty, it needn’t become abusive, it needn’t become complicated – but it might well get loud.
Just on Rodgers by the way. Celtic next few fixtures (without looking) are:
Inter Milan, the Israelis who I won’t even attempt to spell and Aberdeen.
Cue odious little man on Sky. “So Brendan are you looking forward to the old firm game”. Shame he didn’t have the wherewithal to just say naw.
Latest rubbish from Dave King and the DR.
Rangers chairman Dave King brands Mike Ashley a quitter who couldn’t handle the heat
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-chairman-dave-king-brands-8582130#crt7JK84cJp6pcsV.99
He really does spout a load of tosh including this one which had me scratching my head:
“The focus for us really is about getting back to competing with Celtic year on year, not just season on season, and on getting back into Europe.”
Does that mean that he admits The Rangers can break even for the 9 month “season”, but the problem is the 3 months where costs continue but no revenue flow in for rest of the “year”?
“Getting back to…”?
oops.
Sorry to be a bore but given DCK’s recent ramblings I must keep going back to the annual costs, as per the club accounts, of running the T’Rangers operation.
To the end of financial year in 30 June 2015 income was £16,470m.
Expenditure was £26,804m
The accounts note that players costs are RIFC’s most significant expenditure at £6.2m.
So take that away from overall expenditure and you have £20.6m of other costs.
Now it is reasonable to assume that some of the player costs were reduced at the end of last season as they have managed to get some reportedly high earners off the wage bill.
Lets say they managed to half it to around £3m.
Yet in the Sky piece DCK says that “…..we have obviously increased our investment in wages very, very considerably,”
What does that mean? We know Barton must be on a pretty penny and we know that long terms contracts have been dished out like sweeties recently. The squad is now slightly larger than last year and, as you would expect from atop flight club, has more people expecting a game and adequate reward than some of the youngsters who have departed. If Barton is on £20k a week then that is £1m for the 52 weeks. Even at half that, it is a significant amount.
Therefore are wages back up to the £6m mark and possibly more?
While bigger crowds means more income there is also a trade off re security costs etc.
We know DCK has said the stadium needs considerable investment. Is that therefore over and above the general running costs of circa £20m?
So £20m plus £6m plus unknown millions for the stadium. Lets just call it £30m plus ongoing players wages rises each season.
You can see why DCK is desperate to sort out the retail side of things but as we know PUma still have this season and next on their contract and the RR one has a further 5-6 to run.
At present I still can’t see how the gap between income and expenditure is closing and where additional monies are coming from to make additions to the squad to be good enough to challenge Celtic and have a run in Europe.
Its is the fans pockets that will be raided. Make no mistake.
So which Bowen report did Matt Lyndsay of the Herald read then?
In fairness I only lifted the below text from the bit of the article that I could read – somehow he seems to think it appropriate that I pay to read the rest. Mind you, if someone confirms that the rest of the article confirms his view that the opening text is actually a parody, is how some might see it, or want us to see it, but the facts of the matter are…..then I might be prepared to pay for it.
I won’t hold my breath.
Just a small point on matters being unprecedented. Matt could try googling Victory Party for Butcher and Co at Pittodrie in the mid eighties.
wottpiAugust 8, 2016 at 10:25
Its is the fans pockets that will be raided. Make no mistake.
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But if The Rangers are to be run sustainably isn’t this their only route to break even? At the moment they only exist because of loans which may need to be repaid.
In any event isn’t that where all clubs should find their core finance? If TRFC fans want to see their new club prosper they will have to face up to the fact that it has to be paid for – BoS and Murray are long gone, there are no more free lunches.
Of course commercial deals are a source of income for most clubs, if the deals are structured correctly. TRFC have their hands tied on this one though!
BOGS DOLLOXAUGUST 8, 2016 at 12:12
BD, you are of course correct that the fans financial support should be the main source of basic income and sustainable plans should be formulated around that.
The problem is that unlike the plans offered by McCann, Budge and Hutchison, T’Rangers fans have not been told the truth or given a transparent plan for the future.
The current board have been less than truthful re investment plans to match the rhetoric of success and Euro glory.
History shows that when fans are given false hopes, as opposed to realistic ones, there is normally trouble around the next corner.
I didn’t realise BBC Sportscene had moved to a 1 hour slot at 7.30 pm on a Sunday so I never saw it last night. However I am reading today that there was no highlights of The Championship matches. Have they forgotten there are still some big names in that league with a lot of fans? Surely they wouldn’t be so blatant as to ignore it now that their favourite team is no longer there?
wottpiAugust 8, 2016 at 12:38
BOGS DOLLOXAUGUST 8, 2016 at 12:12
BD, you are of course correct that the fans financial support should be the main source of basic income and sustainable plans should be formulated around that.
The problem is that unlike the plans offered by McCann, Budge and Hutchison, T’Rangers fans have not been told the truth or given a transparent plan for the future.
The current board have been less than truthful re investment plans to match the rhetoric of success and Euro glory.
History shows that when fans are given false hopes, as opposed to realistic ones, there is normally trouble around the next corner.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I agree that there has been a total lack of transparency and TRFC fans have been lied to.
However, most fans will have worked that out for themselves and probably take the view that whilst they don’t like the current regime much they will go along with it for now and see what happens – forking out here and there.
The trouble around the next corner will come when the results on the pitch don’t match aspirations and expectations of pumping the diddies and challenging Celtic. Their squad is pretty thin and despite what Hugh Keevins says Krancjar and Barton will struggle and are not “quality” signings. Add in a Wagstaff sick note and one or two other injuries and it all looks like a house of cards.
It would be interesting to see how much Ibrox Stadium is valued at now by the current occupiers. If there has been no sufficient maintenance for many years and substantial repairs and replacements of parts of the building are necessary, then one would imagine that it should be substantially decreasing in book value over time. Market value would similarly be depreciating towards a negative figure. The most recent sales of the property were for part of £1 and part of £5,500,000 which parts also included the Auchenhowie Albatross.
Quiz questions
Which current SPFL Premiership entity have never
won a game?
led a game?
had a clean sheet in a game?
scored more than one goal in a game?
The recrudescence of parts of the assets of Rangers in the form of Team 12 are very unpalatable and as they totter closer to implosion chaos is likely to happen sometime this season. Something has been lost even by the presence of Sevco and their Increasingly bizarre behaviour
From Chris Jack, The evening Times (The evening shark jump):
“Mark Warburton’s side still have plenty to prove and require another couple of additions, but they are better placed to become credible long-term challengers to what will be an improved Celtic than Aberdeen or Hearts are. Rangers will win the title again before the silverware travels to Pittodrie or Tynecastle.”
So there you have it Jambos, Dandy Dons and everyone else, you would be just as well giving up right now.
This guy is a journalist? TRFC will be lucky to see out the season financially. Sounds like they will be lucky to have stadium to play out of soon. I watched the game at Ibrox and the game at Tynecastle. They will not get near Hearts. Didn’t manage to see Aberdeen but I think they too will be too strong for them. The problem is the press have been talking Warburton and his team up so much that they are beginning to believe themselves. Likewise a lot of the fans.
I suspect there are going to be a lot of red faces about next May.
BOGS DOLLOXAUGUST 8, 2016 at 13:34
Correct.
If you were to look at some of my older posts I have always said there is no reason for a well run club from Ibrox to use their vast fan base to put out a decent team that can provide a half decent challenge.
However as has been seen in the past the oldco constantly needed additional cash to be top dog.
As you rightly say those ‘investment streams’ are not available to the newco and because of that they are a long long way behind Celtic who have numerous options to exploit, if necessary.
The money just isn’t there at present to allow T’Rangers to do what they say they want to do. Even if it was there is no guarantee that domestic success and Euro glory would be achieved. In that scenario then more financial troubles could be on the horizon.
Some Bears will have a good idea of what is possible and what is probable in terms of performace with the players they have but that is not the message coming from DCK. There will of course be other fans who, having been brought up on sugar daddy money still expect the same. Why? Well because they are Rangers and the RRM in charge do not lie!
As opposed to DCK bumping his gums, they would be better to heed Park’s words about a steady seven year rebuild being required. Otherwise they are going to be very disappointed.
Re Chris Jack’s comment about TRFC winning the title before AFC or HMFC. I’m not sure about that but given the serious financial advantage held by Celtic then it may be a moot point for quite some time.
What I would say though is that I would be quite confident of HMFC finishing above TRFC more often than not over the next 5 years.
Yes rangers have the bigger fanbase (and then some) in comparison to Hearts BUT Hearts have far smaller running costs and once their new main stand is complete they will have much better income streams via corporate and sponsorship etc. Hearts are in a better position to actually turn a profit. If they can do this then that will in turn increase their ability to invest in the squad. As things stand TRFC need to find £20 million per year just to keep the lights on before they even think about paying a single players salary.
Rangers are currently run by a career criminal. Hearts are not. This is also a long term advantage for Hearts. Thats an obvious thing to point out in any industry apart from in Scottish football where it needs to be pointed out to people.
I honestly see Hearts policy of gradual progress as the best way of bridging the gap with Celtic and I genuinely believe there is serous potential in Edinburgh for a football club to attract regular crowds of 25K+. Obviously you need a stadium big enough in order to do that. But like I say I think Hearts are going about this the correct way by gradually growing each season.
TRFC’s chairmen has today said words to the effect of “we want to finish second at the worst” and this has been met with horror on the rangers fans forums. Even contemplating not winning the league is seen as sacrilege. I don’t see HMFC’s manager/directors coming under any such pressure any time soon for being happy to come second.
I think TRFC’s fans (not all of them obviously) failure to accept their situation and current place in the pecking order will be their undoing over the next couple of seasons. They won’t have the necessary patience for a slow rebuilding job similar to what Fergus McCann embarked on in 1994-1999. A lot of Celtic fans didn’t have the patience for it either but enough of them did to stick around and back his vision despite only winning the league once in McCann’s 5 years at Celtic park.
If you offered TRFC’s fans 1 league title in the next 5 years (combined with the club getting back on a ‘break even’ business model) I bet most would reject it when in reality they should bite your arm off for it.
For me this is the biggest problem facing TRFC over the next 5-10 years and because of this I don’t share Chris Jack’s blind optimism when it comes to TRFC vs Hearts or Aberdeen.
CHARLIE_KELLYAUGUST 8, 2016 at 16:28
The other reason Hearts may do well is that they seem to be able to look beyond the English lower leagues for talent.
Personally, I hope that more home grown talent comes through the academy system in future years.
However, as it stands Hearts do not appear constrained in the same Warburton and McParland are by trying to compete for upcoming lower league English talent (most of whom they seem to have had a connection with in the past), where ultimately any available good ones they are sniffing about simply go to a Championship club for cash the Ibrox club doesn’t have.
Many a Hearts fan was disappointed with getting dumped out of Europe by the Maltese, but a good number of Jambos quickly reminded folks were the club was a couple of years back and reality set in.
Slow and steady as she goes Ms Budge. 🙂
A couple of points (or three) Charlie.
Firstly you ignore the European factor. For RFC to come 2nd means, to state the obvious, that HMFC and AFC don’t. I doubt that space will be vacated easily although I concede that most will view them as top 6 by some inate birthright! What DK doesn’t know yet though that Budge and Milne know only too well is that 2nd guarantees nothing. The chance to spend a large amount if cash to get the chance to be knocked out by a CL drop out. Cut short, investing heavily to ‘only’ become UEFA QR fodder is a mugs game and the solution is certainly not to simply invest more. And that’s assuming you have more!
Secondly, you ignore the inevitable Old Firm question. Would they swap a title in five for sustainability? Perhaps. But rephrase the question would you chuck it all away, re-use Doncaster’s liquidation safety blanket just, purely to stop Celtic winning 10 in a row and I suspect the answer would not be quite so assured.
And finally, in my world you have a media willing to question honestly a ‘Rangers’ not doing well and a fan base that is free to exercise it’s right to protest (in the walking away sense, not the ‘protecting our players sense).
Future Title winners?
I will be honest, I would love to see Celtic win 10 in a row. Not for bragging rights, not to humble any other team like Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee Utd nor anyone else. But for what I can only describe as Karma.
When Celtic won 9 in a row, we did it fair and square. With skill and flair and mostly home grown talent. When Rangers won it they did it by cheating – irregular registrations – with eventually tax payers money – their bankers with an open cheque book. And by tax evasion / tax avoidance (still to be determined) on an industrial scale. They raided the cream of England and Europe in an attempt to emulate Celtic’s 9 in a row and winning the European Cup.
Some may say they have been punished enough, the humiliation on a daily basis. But I say no! The lies from Regan & Doncaster, Lord Nimmo Smith and the sycophantic media will not allow me to rest easy. Nothing would give me greater satisfaction than Celtic to win 10 in a row to finally shut all of them up.
After that, I would die happy if any other team/s from Scotland would lift the title on a regular basis. (Say, every second year?)
How nauseating to listen to Tom English being very selective about which ‘sports corruption’ he gets ‘ground down’ by!
He and McIntyre were going on about the corruption of the IOC, and the Olympics. ” I am ground down by the corruption and pollution of sport” said English ten minutes ago.
Two of our Football hacks who simply will not tell the truth about the ‘saga’, where a corrupt club cheated their way to sporting ‘success’ for years!And a new club, by a fix by the Football Authorities, gets to claim those ‘sporting successes’ as its own!
Outrageous.
To misquote someone ( I forget who) , Scottish Football will not be clean until hacks like English and McIntyre and the rest are strangled by the cord of the last working microphone that BBC radio Scotland has .
And Speirs! ” With that money( i.e. 40 000 season tickets) Rangers must run Celtic damn close” and tips them to finish second, with Aberdeen a poor fourth, and Hearts third.
These guys seem to lose the capacity for rational thought and a balanced view.
Can it be the case that Speirs and company are like the common herd, unable to do any kind of financial assessment of the fact- based kind that, for example, easyJambo regularly provides us with?
Are they as blinkered as the common herd when they listen to King spinning the old guff about ‘money in reserve’-money that he still has to borrow from ‘his core investors’? Money that no one else will lend?
JOHN CLARKAUGUST 8, 2016 at 19:25
And Speirs! ” With that money( i.e. 40 000 season tickets) Rangers must run Celtic damn close” and tips them to finish second, with Aberdeen a poor fourth, and Hearts third.These guys seem to lose the capacity for rational thought and a balanced view.Can it be the case that Speirs and company are like the common herd, unable to do any kind of financial assessment of the fact- based kind that, for example, easyJambo regularly provides us with?Are they as blinkered as the common herd when they listen to King spinning the old guff about ‘money in reserve’-money that he still has to borrow from ‘his core investors’? Money that no one else will lend?
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None of them seem to be considering the riches heading Celtic’s way if they reach the CL groups. Depending on a number of factors this would mean £25-30M hitting the coffers. The prize money has increased considerably. Quite how any Journalist thinks the club from Ibrox could match that is beyond me. The Bank of Scotland of old is gone, and will never return. It is fair to assume no other bank will allow Rangers a free reign with money like the old B.O.S did. I doubt they could get involved in dodgy tax avoidance schemes to pay players more, and I doubt if HMRC would allow them not to pay tax/N.I on salaries. It’s hard to see what option is open to them, other than to win the league and get a shot at CL qualification themselves. Alternatively they could simply put in place a budget where they don’t spend more than they earn, but that would almost certainly see crowds drop over a period.
They seem to be basing their predictions on the fact that “its rangers” and that is that.
But again looking at Hearts and the signings of Watt & Sammon to play up front. I’d argue that they are better than anything rangers have to offer up front. Kenny Miller isn’t the force he once was (understandable given that he’s 37!) Waghorn is injured O’Halloran was an SPL journeyman until he was signed by rangers and I honestly can’t even remember who their other forwards are and can’t be bothered googling….. The point is that I think Hearts standard of player is just as good and possibly better than rangers. Same with Aberdeen. I think Rooney is better than anything rangers have at their disposal.
Hamilton gave us all an insight on Saturday as to the Emperors current state of undress and I expect a good few more teams to do so also over the course of the season.
In short I’ll be very surprised if rangers finish above Aberdeen or Hearts this season if there is not some serious “over investment” between now and September 1st.
John Clark
August 8, 2016 at 19:25
And Speirs! ” With that money( i.e. 40 000 season tickets) Rangers must run Celtic damn close” and tips them to finish second, with Aberdeen a poor fourth, and Hearts third. These guys seem to lose the capacity for rational thought and a balanced view.
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Have to say I disagree JC. Using player budget as a proxy for success the new team in the league should finish second! 40/42k season ticket sales are about 4 x our total and maybe 3 x the jambos’. I know that that is not the only deriver for success but it is important. There is clearly a sustainable business model there if they can sort out the “legacy” issues. Just waiting to see which club (not mine I fear) has the b*lls to welcome the new club in to the top division!
ps was at Perth yesterday and we were sh88e!
John Clark
August 8, 2016 at 19:08
How nauseating to listen to Tom English being very selective about which ‘sports corruption’ he gets ‘ground down’ by! He and McIntyre were going on about the corruption of the IOC, and the Olympics. ” I am ground down by the corruption and pollution of sport” said English ten minutes ago. Two of our Football hacks who simply will not tell the truth about the ‘saga’, where a corrupt club cheated their way to sporting ‘success’ for years!And a new club, by a fix by the Football Authorities, gets to claim those ‘sporting successes’ as its own! Outrageous. To misquote someone ( I forget who) , Scottish Football will not be clean until hacks like English and McIntyre and the rest are strangled by the cord of the last working microphone that BBC radio Scotland has .
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Agreed!
Hearts current spending power isn’t quite as great as some people imagine. Ann Budge has been running a tight ship despite buoyant ST sales and attendances. Foundation of Hearts pledges have been saved rather than spent.
Year 1 out of administration (2014/15) saw a budgeted trading loss of up to £1.28M at the start of the season. This was revised several times over the season but eventually came in at £852K. However that loss was covered, and more, by 8,000+ pledges from FOH which raised £1.47M. This was in addition to an initial £1M from FOH which was handed over on exiting administration.
Year 2 following administration (2015/16) has a forecast break even trading position, again before FOH contributions of around £1.5M. We should get confirmation of the position in the next couple of months when the 2016 accounts are published.
The club is currently cash rich, but Ann Budge has earmarked the cash reserves for investment in the new stand rather than on the pitch. In addition, the next two years FOH contributions (up to £3M by May 2018) will exclusively be used to help fund the new stand (estimated total cost of £11M-£12M).
Once the stand is paid for, FOH pledges will then be used to repay Ann Budge’s £2.4M loan plus another £100K to complete the share transfer which will facilitate “fan ownership” around Dec 2019 or Jan 2020.
During the next three and a half years, the club will primarily be reliant on match day income, rather than boosted by FOH funds. As all clubs know, such income is hugely dependent on performance on the park. With the footballing side, partly starved of potential funding due to the new stand and the delayed loan repayment, top performances are not guaranteed.
By the time that Ann Budge hands over the club around the end of 2019, fans will have “donated” around £9.5M to the club since it exited administration. That is an extraordinary commitment to the club and is well in excess even of Ann Budge’s personal contribution (as welcome as it was at our time of need). Hearts fans also raised another £1M in an ultimately futile share issue for the club six months before it slipped into administration. You could almost have bought 2 x TRFCs for that kind of cash.
I sincerely hope that performances on the park do match up to the top expectations and that fans contributions are at least maintained at current levels. If both are achieved, then I’ll be a happy chappie.
EJ, a question,
When the new stand is built will it increase capacity? Which I think most players and fans of opponents wouldn’t mind.
EASYJAMBO
AUGUST 8, 2016 at 21:21
Excellent post re the goings on at Tynie but isn’t that exactly the point.
The path ahead is relatively clear for all to see as are the figures being made available. The fans can digest criticize etc etc at their leisure.
He took pelters of the 4-6-0 formation but Levein knows his stuff and Neilson is no mug. Casting the net wide for players can unearth a bombscare like Oshaniwa but there will be the odd Sow and Djoum out there waiting to be unearthed who can do you a decent turn for minimal outlay.
Not long after I posted earlier I had a quick listen in to SSB (I Know!!) and there was Warbs making my argument by prattling on about how it was tough at this stage in the transfer window to compete with English clubs as the player market decreases in size.
This is the guy who waxes lyrical about the Next Gen series. He must surely have a wider eye for the talent available?
Why isn’t he and McParland looking further afield.
Can they only afford a Stagecoach bus fare to south of the Border?
jimbo August 8, 2016 at 21:52
EJ, a question,
When the new stand is built will it increase capacity? Which I think most players and fans of opponents wouldn’t mind.
=======================
The current working capacity is around 17,200, but is reduced by segregation requirements for away fans in the Roseburn Stand.
The new stand will take capacity up to just over 20,000. How much over, we won’t know until the plans are published on the City of Edinburgh planning portal (hopefully later this week).
I think the increase is appropriate to our needs for the next few seasons, although some fans would prefer more. However the site limitations and the design of the existing stands make implementation of extra capacity much more expensive.
It may be that the whole of the Roseburn will again be given over to away fans (Celtic, Rangers Hibs and Aberdeen for some games) if they are able to fill it and Hearts fans demands for ST’s remain close to current levels.
wottpiAugust 8, 2016 at 22:03
EASYJAMBO AUGUST 8, 2016 at 21:21 Excellent post re the goings on at Tynie but isn’t that exactly the point.
The path ahead is relatively clear for all to see as are the figures being made available. The fans can digest criticize etc etc at their leisure.
He took pelters of the 4-6-0 formation but Levein knows his stuff and Neilson is no mug. Casting the net wide for players can unearth a bombscare like Oshaniwa but there will be the odd Sow and Djoum out there waiting to be unearthed who can do you a decent turn for minimal outlay.
======================
I agree re Levein’s contacts, and his work ethic as he attends most U20 and Academy games (almost as many as me) but I’d question the need for a DOF in Scottish football.
It’s primarily a Hearts specific topic but I’m not entirely convinced by his signing policy. The geographical spread for recruitment is exceptional and he clearly has contacts in several countries. Obviously he is constrained by the budget that he has been given, but there does seem to be a physical profile criteria that favours 6ft plus targets. It may be a cost v risk issue but a number of signings also appear to have flaws in their background, e.g. injury prone, attitude or temperament issues.
Does he influence team selection or tactics? I think he sometimes does, but that’s just an external personal view and not based on insider knowledge.
EJ, 2,800 is a good uplift. In the constraints of your property. Good luck.
If I get in the mood tomorrow I will post about several ambitions? moves towards new grounds (and floating) pitches around Scotland. But I would much rather you guys would do it. Hearts& Hibs? Celtic to Cambuslang? Rangers floating?, Shotts Bon Accord & Shoots Thisttle? Carluke Rovers and Albion Rovers@
Good night.
EASYJAMBOAUGUST 8, 2016 at 22:42
Not wanting this to turn into a Jambo love fest so on the wider point I have no problem with clubs having a DoF if it suits them.
On reading Taxi for Farrell, reference was made to the influence of the Largs Mafia on coaching and management positions in Scotland.
I am sure they have good experience and have something to offer but I do wonder at times if they are what the next generation of Scottish managers need.
Neilson has no doubt been assisted by Levein. Maybe the likes of Jackie McNamara and Allan Johnstone would have fared better in the top flight managers jobs if there had been someone like CL in the background.
Walter certainly didn’t seem to be on hand to keep McCoist on the straight and narrow.
Deila’s looked like he could have done with help from someone with a bit more experience than Collins.
A few mistakes and a promising young Scottish manager can find themselves out of the game or falling down the leagues pretty quickly. Maybe the right DoF could improve that situation, but I agree it may not be for all.
Interesting to read a Twitter debate between Tom English and a Celtic fans website. Says he is willing to discuss what they (Celtic fans) believe is cheating within Scottish football on a one to one basis, but not on Twitter due to the abuse that would ensue. There are two ways that could be interpreted, but there can be no doubt in my mind that many Journalists have effectively been scared into silence.
On another note some Celtic fans who have been vocal on Resolution 12 and other issues had their identities exposed online at the weekend. Details of schools and universities attended were posted, as well as details of the companies they are involved with. In some cases pictures were posted. Apparently this is being done as ‘a warning shot’. I do wonder if the data protection act has been breached by someone here. Given that some of those involved are close to the Resolution 12 issue, they will have to have made their identities known to more than one organisation.
The Hearts love in?
But seriously this is a great article on Ann Budge from the BBC News website:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37002645
I laughed out loud at this bit:
“Carol is a rare Hearts fan in my family, who are all Hibs supporters,” explains Budge. “My parents originated in Leith, so on the side of the boat is Queen of Hearts – registered in Leith.” (Carol is her daughter)
You can’t help but love her, a fantastic person for Hearts but from a Hibees family!
EASYJAMBOAUGUST 8, 2016 at 22:08jimbo August 8, 2016 at 21:52 EJ, a question,When the new stand is built will it increase capacity? Which I think most players and fans of opponents wouldn’t mind.=======================The current working capacity is around 17,200, but is reduced by segregation requirements for away fans in the Roseburn Stand.
=====================================================================
I think I possibly know the answer to this one already – but the stadium issue is one that has a relatively simple answer. Any development of Tynecastle suffers from a straightforward space issue, and I believe a H&S issue related to surrounding industries. While I personally love going there as it can generate one helluva of an atmosphere, I can’t help think that the old girl is just past her useful life, in much the same way as AFC have decided to leave Pittodrie, and from recent developments DFC have decided Dens park is no longer a viable home.
So…. Hearts & Hibs, Dundee & Dundee Utd – do you really need a stadium each? Cue the standard howls of derision and screams of I’d rather give up football that share grounds with them.
Things have moved on, it should be more than possible for stadia to cope with a game every week, pitches with proper drainage and substrate, lighting rigs, irrigation and ventilation systems mean the usual view of mud baths upon ground sharing should be confined to history. Grounds could be designed to be quickly and easily re-branded to reflect colours of the home team of the week. Costs shared equal costs halved. Money currently spent maintaining two semi-clapped out old stadia could be redirected in more useful things – youth academies, proper training facilities and those facilities would be attached to the stadia complex. Those self same training facilities can be turned into significant fund raisers, proper all weather or even indoor facilities opened up to local communities, raising funds, promoting the clubs and at the same improving the health and well-being of the community. Not following the TRFC model of grabbing public money then hiding it away and locking it down – open it up, make it a proper resource for all.
I guess the best time for this was a few years back, all four clubs have put significant funds into renovating some or all of their stadia. But if Dundee are seriously considering moving now, despite replacing both ends of Dens Park, I’d bet all 4 could garner significant benefits. How much for the land Tynecastle and Easter Road sit on – Edinburgh land can’t be cheap? The improving public transport links in Edinburgh perhaps opens up a more out of town site for a new ground more than that proposed for either new Pittodrie (although easily reached via the new by-pass to those coming from outwith the city, its not so great for those coming from the city) or new Dens. In Dundee flattening the Dens road area would open up the possibility of a huge close to city centre housing development.
Anyway, just a thought. I guess it goes back to my belief that clubs should be part of a community, they should work together for the good of both sides. When you look down south at the EPL (and Championship) it makes me recoil in horror. They are closed shops, money and greed driven companies, with no link to the real world. Look at Pogba – more of the self-fulfilling circle of over-spending to keep up with the competition. The players really aren’t getting any better, its just that average players now cost an absolute fortune. Not because they are better, but simply because the Champions League and Sky/BT have dumped obscene amounts of cash into the English game. £89 million for Pogba?? Come on, your having a laugh! Its not sustainable – it will come crashing down, its only a matter of time.
Scotland is not part of that, I hope will never be part of that, and must instead look for alternative and sustainable ways to promote the game – community is key. Makes you wonder how much would a Dennis Law, or a Kenny Dalglish would go for these days…..
I thought I would share the e-mail that I recently received from Club 1872. The emphasis is my own…
Dear XXXX
The last four years have been the most trying that the Rangers support has ever had to endure. The unwavering support from you, the beating heart of the Club, is the primary reason that the Club endures today, ready to make an assault on the summit of Scottish football.
The damage inflicted would have killed most institutions. As always, those who sought to defeat us under-estimated our resolve. When Rangers needed it most, our loyal supporters stepped up to the mark.
While the first steps toward a full recovery have been positive, it is our absolute duty to ensure that the last four years never repeat themselves. In the spirit of the Gallant Pioneers we must take up the mantle.
You may have heard about the recently launched fan initiative, Club 1872, which has the full backing of the current Rangers board. It is borne out of a vital requirement; to ensure that Rangers Football Club’s assets, history, reputation and existence are protected in perpetuity. The only way that we can ensure this is by giving the support a voice that demands to be heard.
We have a simple but imperative mandate:To ensure that Rangers Football Club’s history, assets and existence are never threatened again.To give the Rangers fans a unified, independent and influential voice. To emanate the spirit of the Founding Fathers.To defend the reputation of Rangers Football Club and its support. To increase fan shareholding to protect the Club for future generations. To contribute to, enhance and develop Rangers Football Club on the fans terms.To democratically represent supporters for the greater good of Rangers Football Club.
We appreciate you may not always be able to attend games or interact regularly with Rangers due to distance or other commitments, but joining Club 1872 will give you a real, meaningful say in how our club progresses over the coming years. We hope you will consider spending a few pounds each month to assist in the rebuilding of Rangers. You’ll decide where your money goes along with thousands of fellow supporters.
To find out more or to join Club 1872 please visit us at http://www.club1872.co.uk. Help protect your Club’s history and its future.
No further comment needed I think.
TAYREDAUGUST 9, 2016 at 09:03
The thing with both Hearts and Hibs is having the grounds in the middle of the community automatically makes them a community club. (How that works in Dundee when sitting next door to each other is a different matter!!)
Folk can go to the game via the same route, see the same people, meet in the same pubs and clubs, go to the same chippy afterwards. Tynie is near on 1km from a tram stop and a bit longer to Haymarket Station. Buses pass by the ground on both side. In terms of public transport you couldn’t ask for better.
What do the new out of towner’s / edge of towner’s offer. In many cases it is just a different but bog standard shed but in a field with nowt around it. They do very little for the match day experience in terms of build up.
I am sure any moves away from Tynie and/or Easter Road to a modern, possibly shared, facility would be welcomed by some but my guess is that it would really have to tick a good number of boxes to get the majority of fans on board.
In a game of Top Trumps involving Newcastle’s Adam Armstong – what wins?
Frank McParland’s previous relationship with Rafa Benitez or Ashley’s reaction to DCK calling him out as a ‘scaredy pants’.
Why do the MSM even bother? Surely there is more they can fill the column inches with.
upthehoopsAugust 9, 2016 at 07:12
‘..Twitter debate between Tom English and a Celtic fans website. Says he is willing to discuss what they (Celtic fans) believe is cheating within Scottish football on a one to one basis, but not on Twitter due to the abuse that would ensue’
_______
Discuss? What’s to discuss?
As a newsman/sports hack/journalist/BBC radio pundit it should be enough for him to know that
Res 12 was passed,
that Celtic plc appear to have resiled from their Board duties by putting the matter on the long finger in the hope that the UEFA Statute of limitations would kill any possibility UEFA taking action,
and that the SFA will not offer any explanation in the face of what appears to be solid evidence.
There are at least two, possibly three,good stories there needing looked at. And the information that the Res 12 guys had was made widely available to the SMSM,so if English doesn’t know the ‘facts’, he’s an even worse journalist than I thought.
He has enough information to go to the SFA and UEFA and the Celtic Board to ask very hard questions, and report either that they refuse to answer, or check their versions of what happened, with such evidence as they have to support their versions.
Remember, the general complaint against the SMSM is not necessarily that they don’t ‘side’ with us but that they absolutely refuse even to investigate the questions we ask, but continue without investigation to support the rotten cheating of SDM and the underhand deals done by the Footballing Authorities and the nonsense trotted out by the convicted criminal on the RIFC Board.
If he was being gagged by his former newspaper and/or the BBC, he should man up and tell us, and get the hell out.
Like other journalists who have a proper understanding of what being a journalist means.
PS. The same might be said for University professors of Sports studies!
JOHN CLARK
AUGUST 9, 2016 at 11:05
The problem is that no journalist/reporter has yet to justify why the matters discussed on here are irrelevant or not worth pursuing.
If they could justify ‘moving on’ with a reasoned and logical argument while putting people minds at rest by providing evidence that they may just be overly concerned or paranoid about nothing then I would be happy with that.
However simply acting like a child and saying ‘because’ or its the ‘same strip same badge of course is Rangers’ isn’t enough.
While I appreciate that Tom English and others don’t want to face the abuse that can be banded around, the matters deserve and adult debate.
Could SFM not facilitate such a debate? All very well meeting Celtic Supporters but it will just be written off immediately as yet more Old Firmism – in fact certain parties would no doubt exclusively reveal it on the night of 9th September just to ignite yet more passions.
Why not offer a medium where we would contribute (say) 20 questions and he (or anyone else for that matter – Spencey?) could reply, but only on the basis that we, collectively would have a right of reply back a second time and him likewise. Quite happy for him to have the last word just as long as he allows us the opportunity to firstly demonstrate if his last word is intended to be PR fuelled pish! Equally, quite happy if we end up not agreeing, just as long as both sides gets a fair hearing which at the moment through ‘his’ media ‘we’ simply don’t.
We don’t want a public stoning. We wouldn’t expect a massive expose’ on the inner machinations of modern sports editing. But there would surely be an informative halfway house in there somewhere?
CYGNUS X2
AUGUST 9, 2016 at 09:54
I don’t know where to begin with Club 1872’s email, but the following excerpt particularly caught my eye:
It strikes me that if Rangers Football Club’s history and existence (allegedly) couldn’t be wiped out by the liquidation of the club, what on earth could pose a potential future threat, as I’m sure the club is also totally impervious to flood, famine, pestilence and probably nuclear missiles.
Do these people even read the tripe they’ve just written?
Very good point Highlander.
If the liquidation of the club doesn’t threaten its history then what would/could threaten it?
Because the football authorities (and ra peepul) have demonstrated that only a meaningless, disposable, expendable, dispensable, replaceable company dies as a result of liquidation, it seems to me there’s only one thing that could ever threaten the continued existence of Rangers Football Club (the club), and that’s Celtic winning ten in a row.
As a Hearts fan, I’m typing the next bit in a whisper:
‘mon the Celtic.
JOHN CLARKAUGUST 9, 2016 at 11:05Discuss? What’s to discuss?
As a newsman/sports hack/journalist/BBC radio pundit it should be enough for him to know that
Res 12 was passed,
————————-
I have no wish to get involved in debate but I think I should point out the misconception that Resolution 12 was passed. Due to be debated at the Celtic AGM 2013, Resolution 12 was withdrawn prior to that meeting after private discussions between representatives of Celtic PLc and two requisitioners who had been tasked through 100 shareholders’ signatories (of which I was one) to put the forward the resolution.
So, how seriously to take players betting on matches?
The English FA for 1 offence – £23, 000 (Kyle Lafferty)
The Scottish FA for 307 offences – £7, 500 (Ian Black)
SMUGASAUGUST 9, 2016 at 13:04
Could SFM not facilitate such a debate?
================================
Tom English, and indeed Graham Spiers, were both interviewed (separately) for a podcast for the Celtic Underground website last season. Having listened to both there was no discussion at all regarding the things we would obviously like to hear discussed by mainstream journalists! I suspect they are not willing to discuss these issues with anyone on a public forum.
Interestingly Jamie Walker has been cited for diving. As I reported on Saturday Halliday deliberately and blatantly dived twice to win free-kicks on edge of box v Accies. And whit aboot yon swallow dive fae Dembele 3mins into 2nd half? Have either been cited?
No sour grapes, good game, that could have went either way.
Consistency is all we diddies ask
NAWLITEAUGUST 9, 2016 at 18:52
So, how seriously to take players betting on matches?
The English FA for 1 offence – £23, 000 (Kyle Lafferty)The Scottish FA for 307 offences – £7, 500 (Ian Black)
===================================
Did Kyle Lafferty’s Manager hold up a piece of paper saying it contained 100 names of other players who were betting? Probably not, but then again had he done so the English media would not have have been scared to press the matter like the Scottish media were when McCoist did the same. Then again had McCoist announced the moon is made of green cheese some members of the Scottish media would have been telling space exploration experts how wrong they have been all these years. Going back to your original point, the devil is in the detail of who Ian Black played for at the time. I am utterly convinced any other player from any other club with 307 offences would have been punished far more severely.
UTH,
An offer of 20 questions (number chosen at random), a composite effort by the good readers of SFM for them to initially consider and take reasonable time to respond to and to have every opportunity to simply offer a “no comment” if they see fit. In fact I’m quite happy for BP to take a lead role and to filter the initial questions if there are particular areas they would not wish to tread with public safety being an obvious criteria.
What I would expect in return however, as I said, is a right of reply back at them (and time to prepare said responses which you obviously don’t get in a normal face to face discussion). This gives two benefits. Firstly its allows you to expand on the areas that they do feel comfortable with and secondly it hopefully dispenses with the notion that they would simply ‘spout pish’ to the initial questioning since they would be aware that they could expect a more ‘angled’ response if they did.
Its not like there’s anything to hide surely?
SMUGASAUGUST 9, 2016 at 19:26
===========================
Perhaps Smugas. BP has some media contacts (I think) so maybe such a thing would be possible.
Charlie_Kelly
August 9, 2016 at 16:19
Very good point Highlander. If the liquidation of the club doesn’t threaten its history then what would/could threaten it?
——————————————————————————–
As I’ve said a hundred million times (only a slight exaggeration) if your club, my club every club had the balls to take it on it might happen. BUT it ain’t going to happen guys. Why don’t they? Dosh maybe but not sure! As I said last night I doubt whether any of them will have the balls to even take a wee poke at the new club playing their first game at (say Aberdeen or Celtic Park) in the top league.
kill ultraAugust 9, 2016 at 17:54 16 1 i Rate This
JOHN CLARKAUGUST 9, 2016 at 11:05Discuss? What’s to discuss? As a newsman/sports hack/journalist/BBC radio pundit it should be enough for him to know that Res 12 was passed,————————-I have no wish to get involved in debate but I think I should point out the misconception that Resolution 12 was passed. Due to be debated at the Celtic AGM 2013, Resolution 12 was withdrawn prior to that meeting after private discussions between representatives of Celtic PLc and two requisitioners who had been tasked through 100 shareholders’ signatories (of which I was one) to put the forward the resolution.
==============
Correction
Res 12 was not withdrawn it was adjourned.
Adjournment – definition of adjournment by The Free Dictionary http://www.thefreedictionary.com/adjournmentCachedSimilarv. ad·journed, ad·journ·ing, ad·journs. v.tr. To suspend until a later stated time. v. intr. 1. To suspend proceedings to another time or place
Had Res12 been withdrawn then there would have been no follow up and clearly there has been
The adjournment allowed gaps in the evidence that suggested that the Club Financial Control Body should investigate the process under which the UEFA licence was granted then monitored to be filled or firmed up.
What happened thereafter is another story the final chapter of which is still being written.
kill ultraAugust 9, 2016 at 17:54
‘… Due to be debated at the Celtic AGM 2013, Resolution 12 was withdrawn prior to that meeting ..’
________
I will not, of course, argue against an established fact.
If the Resolution was not voted on and passed at a subsequent shareholder meeting, then indeed the Board would not have been obliged under the Companies Act to pay heed to it.And, like Pontius Pilate, could wash their hands and shut their eyes.
But, I would submit, any Board whose attention has been drawn by its shareholders to alleged serious breaches of rules by a rival, and the alleged covering up of those breaches by the Authority responsible for enforcing and applying the rules, has a moral duty to have those allegations thoroughly investigated and the results of that investigation conveyed to their shareholders and the wider sports community, together with clear , objective evidence to support the findings.
That moral duty arises rather more from the intrinsic damage that cheating , and worse, the covering up of cheating ,does to Sporting Integrity in se, than from any consideration of whether any club actually suffered mere financial loss, or might suffer financial loss if the whistle were to be be blown on the cheating club.
It simply does not do for a sports club to say ” If there was cheating, we were not affected. If the Sports body ignores that cheating, we are not affected.But if we blow the whistle, we might ourselves be affected adversely.Therefore we stay schtum”
There is something repugnant about such an attitude.
Especially if those with that attitude dissimulate and with cynical hypocrisy string their shareholders along with honeyed promises.
In my opinion.
AuldheidAugust 9, 2016 at 21:53
‘…Res 12 was not withdrawn it was adjourned.’
_________
I had begun my reply to kill ultra before your post, Auldheid, but was interrupted by couple of phone calls , and did not ‘refresh’ when I got back to my script.
Grateful to have confirmation of what I thought was the case about Res 12 not having been withdrawn, but I was not entirely sure of my ground, when kill ultra was so positive!
In any event, I think my post on the moral duty on us all to flag up incidences of cheating/alleged cheating , because we are, in Sport, all badly affected when trust in the integrity of the sport or in its organisation, administration and system of allocating sporting ‘awards and rewards’ is shattered.
Off Topic, it’s good to see the BBC biggin up Scottish Football.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37021716
“A new four-part television series looks back at the past 30 years of Scottish football and examines how the success and standard of Scotland’s game has declined.”.
The Scottish BBC, they’ll always have your back, or stab it, as the case may be!
Cygnus X2August 9, 2016 at 09:54
“I thought I would share the e-mail that I recently received from Club 1872. The emphasis is my own…
‘…The damage inflicted would have killed most institutions.’ ”
________
As the world and his wife know, Cygnus X2, ‘the damage inflicted’ is a reference to the damage by …whom?
Why, by none other than the cheating knight of the realm ( I pritheee, do not let us not forget him while we watch CW in the dock in the High Court) whose cheating did actually kill the institution that was Rangers Football Club ,1872!
And as for that lovely, almost QC-quality, phrase ‘To emanate the spirit of the Founding Fathers..’
What joy, to recollect that courtroom scene, with wonderful phrases about the ‘what it’s all about’ ’emanating’ from the lips of ‘one of her Majesty’s Counsel, learned in the Law’.
How my life has been enriched by the whole ‘saga’.
Regrettably, not as much enriched in money terms as the lives of the various charlatans and conmen who made money out of the death of what had been a workaday football club, and out of the gullibility of folk who believe the nonsense that the conmen spout.
The LC Quarter Final Draw
In accordance with the hot ball “rules” of our corrupt governing bodies
The rationale underlying the upcoming quarter final draw is
. Celtic must make the minimum amount of money in the QF ie away draw to a strong Championship side
. TRFC must make the maximum amount of money i.e. home draw to a weak Championship side
The draw must facilitate TRFC playing Celtic in the LC final
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Applying these criteria
Two championship teams must get to the semi final
TRFC and Celtic must also get to semi final
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The most likely quarter final draw that meets this criteria
Is
TRFC at home to a Weak Championship club perhaps Alloa
Strong Championship Club perhaps Dundee Utd at home to Celtic
All championship tie perhaps Morton v QoS
All SPL tie perhaps Aberdeen v Hearts
Enabling a semi final draw
TRFC v Morton or QoS
Celtic v Aberdeen or Hearts
And
TRFC v Celtic in the LC final
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Won`t have long to wait…….the draw is tonight
MercDocAugust 9, 2016 at 23:37
‘….Off Topic, it’s good to see the BBC biggin up Scottish Football…’
______
Ach, and me about to go to bed, and we get what?
The BBC touting a programme which involves giving screen time to a guy who took an EBT-payment from a club he was once manager of , some considerable time after he becomes manager of another club? ?
Honest to God, are there no honest people in BBC Scotland, who can cut through the crap and question the value of the opinions of allegedly compromised people whom they choose to use in an ‘analytical’ programme about Scottish Football?
But perhaps the programme points up that the SDM/ Sounness years were the cause of the ‘decline’. Is that likely to happen?
Not in a million years, I hear you say.
But, I say in response, we live in hope that not everyone in Pacific Quay is prepared to be a defender of sporting wrongdoing.
False hope?
I’ll maybe give Kay Adams a call?
Nah, I don’t think so.
JOHN CLARKAUGUST 10, 2016 at 01:07
MercDocAugust 9, 2016 at 23:37‘….Off Topic, it’s good to see the BBC biggin up Scottish Football…’______Ach, and me about to go to bed, and we get what?The BBC touting a programme which involves giving screen time to a guy who took an EBT-payment from a club he was once manager of , some considerable time after he becomes manager of another club? ?Honest to God, are there no honest people in BBC Scotland, who can cut through the crap and question the value of the opinions of allegedly compromised people whom they choose to use in an ‘analytical’ programme about Scottish Football?
=============================
…and that is why I will not go anywhere near that programme. Why are they having it now? What does it co-incide with I wonder? Why not have it two or three years ago?
Four years ago the BBC got off to a very good start with looking under the bonnet at Ibrox. Since then they have run a mile from the threats to the extent callers to their radio programme can’t even express the view Rangers are a new club without the presenter shouting them down. This is a publicly funded broadcaster, holding a phone in show in a democratic nation, and the presenter is allowed to shout people down.
There will be nothing new in this programme, and the same old regurgitated crap about the Souness ‘revolution’ will get another airing. There will be no analysis of what motivated the Bank of Scotland to allow it. No doubt Murray’s breaking of the sectarian signing policy will also be lauded yet again, after the media for the most part (BBC included) previously consented to it.
On the trailer for the show I saw Graham Speirs, Stuart Cosgrove, and Hazel Irvine, all employees of the BBC. Enough said.
Chris Jack takes another swipe at Brendan Rogers and Celtic in an interview with Alex McLeish
ALEX MCLEISH reckons failure to win the Premiership title would be a black mark on the CV of Celtic boss Brendan Rodgers.
The Northern Irishman is expected to lead the Hoops to their sixth successive top flight title this term despite facing a renewed challenge from Rangers.
And former Ibrox boss McLeish knows the pressure will be on Celtic to finish in front of the Gers and Aberdeen.
He told Sky Sports: “It is a good, strong league and with Rangers back in the league this season it makes it very exciting.
Aberdeen against Rangers at Pittodrie is always a pretty tasty game. Rangers are going up there after an absence of three or four years and it will be very interesting.
“I am a Rangers fan, but my experience and education tells me that Celtic are favourites. If Brendan doesn’t win it, I think Brendan will see that as a black mark on his CV.”
They just can’t help themselves can they?
McLeish thinks it will be tasty when TRFC head to Pittodrie does he? I for one won’t be there or anywhere near the ground or the centre of town. Too many idiots on both sides for me to agree with him that it will be interesting. I’d call it frightening and depressing that a mere sport can generate such intense hatred.
It’s perhaps not quite up there with Glasgow, but I used to find the TRFC v AFC tension more threatening in some indiscernible way. Almost as if it was acceptable for RFC (deceased) to have close competition with CFC, but definitely not those AFC upstarts. Or perhaps as AFC fans we just weren’t used to facing such rabid abuse? We are talking late 70’s & 80’s here, when AFC songs tended to be “Here we go” or “Aberdeen, Aberdeen” both to the same tune and repeat ad nauseum! Things changed, the level of provocation and violence ramped up, I stopped attending said match in the very early 90’s and I will never attend a TRFC game again.
Still, good to know Mcleish finds it interesting, and laughs it off as “tasty”. No doubt the Daily Record will do their best to whip up the hatred closer to the time – certain past events will no doubt take pride of place in their “sporting” pages.
I just pray it passes off without incident, it will just take one Barton special…..
Goose,
I just wish I shared your confidence (is blase’ness a word? not according to my spell check) regarding tonight’s ties, never mind the next round. And my big team have (on paper) the easiest tie of the three!
AULDHEIDAUGUST 9, 2016 at 21:53
JOHN CLARKAUGUST 9, 2016 at 11:05 Discuss? What’s to discuss? As a newsman/sports hack/journalist/BBC radio pundit it should be enough for him to know that Res 12 was passed,————————-
kill ultraAugust 9, 2016 at 17:54
I have no wish to get involved in debate but I think I should point out the misconception that Resolution 12 was passed. Due to be debated at the Celtic AGM 2013, Resolution 12 was withdrawn prior to that meeting after private discussions between representatives of Celtic PLc and two requisitioners who had been tasked through 100 shareholders’ signatories (of which I was one) to put the forward the resolution.
==============
CorrectionRes 12 was not withdrawn it was adjourned.Adjournment – definition of adjournment by The Free Dictionaryhttp://www.thefreedictionary.com/adjournmentCachedSimilarv. ad·journed, ad·journ·ing, ad·journs. v.tr. To suspend until a later stated time. v. intr. 1. To suspend proceedings to another time or placeHad Res12 been withdrawn then there would have been no follow up and clearly there has beenThe adjournment allowed gaps in the evidence that suggested that the Club Financial Control Body should investigate the process under which the UEFA licence was granted then monitored to be filled or firmed up.What happened thereafter is another story the final chapter of which is still being written.
—————-
Auldheid.
Thanks for definition of “adjournment” though it wasn’t necessary, and in this particular case, irrelevant. I stand to be corrected however, if you can point me where Resolution 12 of Celtic plc AGM 2013 has been been read into the minutes of AGMs 2014 and 2015 as I would have expected if such an ongoing adjournment was in place. I’ve searched in vain for such information but have been unable to find it.
“Indiscernible”!!! Its so poisonous you can literally touch it.
I’d be interested to know how susbstantial EBT recipient Mr Mcleish would have felt had the EBT era co-incided with his own playing career, potentially quashing it before it had even begun.
*the point notwithstanding that McLeish Miller and co would have beaten them anyway, obviously!
SMUGASAUGUST 10, 2016 at 09:14
“Indiscernible”!!! Its so poisonous you can literally touch it.
-yeah, I agree – completely wrong choice of word, not even close to what I mean’t! I was trying to make sense of what is so different about the atmosphere that surrounded the former RFC v AFC as compared to CFC matches. Experiencing Glasgow and Aberdeen on those days felt very different.
Are we there yet ,very funny.
https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/
“The most likely quarter final draw that meets this criteria Is TRFC at home to a Weak Championship club perhaps Alloa”
Maybe ask betfred for a price ?? Bet they decline…….
Stadiums. Celtic Park.
I remember about 1992 the ‘old board’ had some fanciful plans for a move to Cambuslang. £100m and all to be paid for by outside investors!
on contaminated ground that saw an above average incidence of cancer in the locality. 
Thankfully that idea was kicked into the long grass along with the ‘old board’.
So wee Fergus had decisions to make. We needed an all seater. I saw plans for a Celtic Park which would have meant pulling down the main (south) stand and replacing it with a mirror image of the new North stand – 2 tiers. Total capacity c80K It looked wonderful.
But the bunnet was a clever chap. 60k is our best bet. It gives us a 10k advantage over Ibrox but we don’t usually have a half empty stadium in January against non combitants. Atmosphere can be maintained providing we have a half decent team and manager.
Getting rid of that eyesore school in front of the ground and opening up ‘The Celtic Way’ was a brilliant idea. A stadium to be proud of. And the environment around Parkhead is so much better these days.
If I have one complaint, it’s the seating for away fans, just not good enough.
Stadiums. Gayfield.
Ha Ha, bet you weren’t expecting that!
When I was in my teens my mother & father and then my sister had a caravan in the Red Lion caravan park. Many a happy holiday I had in Arbroath. When I got the chance I went to Gayfield no matter who they were playing. Great atmosphere, very friendly. Trying to remember that pub across the road – Tutties Neuk? Brilliant.
A very windy stadium at times, coming in from the sea.
A pal of mine drunk Buckfast at the time and trailed me around the main streets trying to buy a bottle. He eventually found a shop and was told your more likely to find it in a chemists , it being a ‘tonic’ wine!
It was in the 1970s.
(not sure if that is true!)
Finally, Arbroath smokies are to die for.
Tayred – Is it maybe to do with the fact that from 1980-86 Aberdeen finished above Rangers every season but with Celtic it was more or less honours even in terms of trophies won.
So there may have been more resentment coming from ibrox than from Celtic park towards those pesky upstarts from the northeast ?
I’m sure i read somewhere that from the formation of the “premier division” in 1975, rangers only won three times in 30 odd visits to pittodrie from 1975 to the end of the 80’s. I’m not sure what Celtic’s record was over the same period but I’d bet it was better than one win in ten. Even in to the 90’s when Aberdeen began to fall away badly and rangers enjoyed their 9IAR years, their record at pittodrie certainly improved but it was by no means brilliant
This also feeds in to the narrative amongst a lot of rangers fans that “Aberdeen raise their game for rangers but not for Celtic”
kill ultraAugust 10, 2016 at 09:14
Auldheid. Thanks for definition of “adjournment” though it wasn’t necessary, and in this particular case, irrelevant. I stand to be corrected however, if you can point me where Resolution 12 of Celtic plc AGM 2013 has been been read into the minutes of AGMs 2014 and 2015 as I would have expected if such an ongoing adjournment was in place. I’ve searched in vain for such information but have been unable to find it.
============================
Fair point, and as I recall at the time of taking the adjournment route that was the expectation, but in the event Celtic, with whom we had to work in order to provide us with some semblance of authority to seek answers, were reluctant to do so.
However there were updates provided by the requistitioners at the subsequent AGMs which in the interests of maintaining a foothold provided an alternative, probably not following official protocols, but pragmatic in the circumstances as it has eventually led us to UEFA’s front door.
Think of Res12 as peeling an onion, it can make you weep at times but in the pursuit of SFA accountability our hope is that the tears will be worth it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEstgTAXyec
I note Aidan Smith in today’s Scotsman having a go at the Beeb not covering the Championship this year.
As he says it will all be down to contracts and money but IMHO the problem goes wider than just the constant focus on the two big teams from Glasgow.
I am constantly struck when on holiday elsewhere in the world the amount of coverage given to a variety of sports. News items often cover their folks participation in many sports, right down to local successes at a relatively low level.
No doubt the news will be waxing lyrical over the three Scots lands wining silver in the pool at Rio but we will most likely never hear about swimming again until the Commonwealth Games in two years. Even then as it is not in Glasgow next time that might even be forgotten.
The vast majority of sporting achievements in this country are solely based on the unsung hard work put in by sportsmen/women and their coaches for little reward or recognition.
A wee and constant mention of other sports ahead of Leigh Griffiths’ stubbed toe might help promote other sports and get kids off their backsides or doing something a bit more energetic than wandering the streets catching Pokemons.
AULDHEIDAUGUST 10, 2016 at 13:27
kill ultraAugust 10, 2016 at 09:14Auldheid. Thanks for definition of “adjournment” though it wasn’t necessary, and in this particular case, irrelevant. I stand to be corrected however, if you can point me where Resolution 12 of Celtic plc AGM 2013 has been been read into the minutes of AGMs 2014 and 2015 as I would have expected if such an ongoing adjournment was in place. I’ve searched in vain for such information but have been unable to find it.============================Fair point, and as I recall at the time of taking the adjournment route that was the expectation, but in the event Celtic, with whom we had to work in order to provide us with some semblance of authority to seek answers, were reluctant to do so.However there were updates provided by the requistitioners at the subsequent AGMs which in the interests of maintaining a foothold provided an alternative, probably not following official protocols, but pragmatic in the circumstances as it has eventually led us to UEFA’s front door.Think of Res12 as peeling an onion, it can make you weep at times but in the pursuit of SFA accountability our hope is that the tears will be worth
—————————-
Let me at apologise the outset to regular readers of SFM for bringing this old dispute onto your blog.
Auldheid. I’m sorry, but I don’t accept your explanation. Your account, above, about the status of Res 12, is at variance with what your Res 12 co-requisitioner, BRTH, wrote in an exchange with me on 29th March, 2016, 2.33 AM on another blog (CQN).
“At the 2013 AGM was not “withdrawn” — it has never been withdrawn and it is something that has to be read into the minutes every AGM since.”
The above statement from BRTH was part of a reply to a post by me, and was by way of an explanation to my pointing out the diversity in the aims of Celtic plc and that of the signatories of Res 12. The plc were actively promoting the ‘return’ of the OF brand, while at the same time, the 100 signatories saw a rare opportunity -now lost, alas- to constitutionally address the almost certain corrupt practices of the football authorities. The two objectives were so radically different and could never have been reconciled.
Kill Ultra
No conflict. What BRTH says is the understanding we had in 2013.
What happened thereafter with regard to minuting was what happened for the reasons given.
We were not chuffed about it but we could hardly force Celtic to do so.
As regards a lost opportunity to address corruption, not sure how having Celtic vote down the Resolution would have achieved that objective, which is what Res12 ultimately is aiming for.
But at the end of the day, we all support football. My friend Ohmar (sp) does. I hope Celtic win tonight. but it wont break my heart if we don’t. Think we should play the young guys again and win 7-0. Sorry steelmen.
Kill Ultra
If you are prepared to accept that the spirit of what was understood in 2013 was met subsequently
I found this update to the 2014 AGM, that I think more than covers the spirit.
https://www.facebook.com/CQNMagazine/posts/1029735043718789
In 2015 the following came from the top table.
“I’m going back now to the 2013 AGM, Resolution 12, which concerned licensing practices.
I would like to provide an update on progress regarding Resolution 12 from that AGM, relating to football authority licensing practices, which was adjourned indefinitely at that meeting.
In the past year shareholder representatives have worked with the Club to seek to achieve a satisfactory resolution to their concerns. The shareholders have engaged independent solicitors who are in correspondence with the SFA, having provided them with documentation for consideration.
This is an important matter of governance for the football authorities to deal with and the Club will continue to work with its shareholders in this regard.”
As to events since then the next AGM will be interesting.
CHARLIE_KELLYAUGUST 10, 2016 at 13:11
I always felt a big difference in the atmosphere at Pittodrie when RFC or CFC were there. Sure, with CFC it was er lively – this is back in the bad old days when certain songs featured heavily in the Celtic song book and the country was very much in the grip of a different source of terrorism than we face today. You would think that would make things spicy… Thankfully CFC stamped hard on that, and they deserve huge credit for doing so (as do the fans).
RFC – As Smugas said it was just always poisonous. More hideous songs that at a young age made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever, I mean what the dickens is a sash and why would a grown man be wearing one, let alone sing about wearing one?! Many songs that unbelievably we still hear today. It dates back from earlier than the mid 80’s, although I know many former RFC fans will tell you it all stems from an infamous incident at a game at Pittodrie in 1988 in solving Ian Durrant. That being the catalyst is Daily Record driven nonsense, it started way before that. Strangely you will hear very little about Willie Johnstone stamping on John McMasters throat during a game in 1980 at Ibrox with the latter apparently requiring resuscitation, nor the long list of red cards that littered that particular fixture for years before that 88 game.
Why is it so bad? I don’t know – maybe partly because we became successful relative to them, but then so did Dundee Utd, and they have only become a target for their abuse in much more recent times and again our trophy cabinet wasn’t exactly bulging prior to 82-83. I recently had the joy of uncovering an old Aberdeen video that included that Cup Final victory against RFC in 1982. Neale Cooper slots home the 5th goal in extra time and the Blue hoards rip into a lovely romantic ditty that went along the lines of “Your gonna get your f*ing heads kicked in” Why sing that? I mean why? Aberdeen at that time were a young and dynamic team, starting to really gather pace, but what was it that provoked such hatred?
The events of the past few years ain’t going to help soothe the fixture either, certainly not for the fans anyway. Personally I hold Murray and TRFC very much responsible for the financial state AFC got themselves into. They did it to try and keep up with RFC, while they were illegally spending their way to oblivion. You’ll find many Dons fans have very similar feelings towards them.