Apologies for the lack of activity this past few days. I had been expecting a guest blog, but it has failed to materialise thus far. I will endeavour to get that together over the next few days. In the meantine, the moderators would like to thank everyone for their cooperation in keeping some sanity in the face of the recent trolling activity. The self-policing aspect has been admirable over the last few days – as has the level of scrutiny applied to the information which has been coming in.
There have been, understandably, some comments on the blog and elsewhere about a perceived obsesssion here with Rangers and their offspring. Whilst I agree that the focus of this community should have a wider perspective, I don’t think it is obsessional to engage with the big story of the day – in fact it is neccessary that we do so.
Ultimately though TSFM’s longevity will depend on our ability to look at the wider issues, and that is at the top of our minds. We have recently been approached by some people about the possibility of our creating and publicising our own Scottish Football Financial Secrecy League in line with that created a while back for Christian Aid. That may give us some credibility as a watchdog, and utilise the expertise that many contributors have offered so freely in the past.
Right now though the new Rangers show is still headlining, and it is of interest, in the light of the impending share issue, whether the economics of running the new Rangers is really as precariously balanced as has been claimed by some of our number.
If our supsicions of Charles Green’s motives are correct, then we are bound to demonstrate why we think the share issue could be a device to either pay off Ticketus, or Green’s investors to the detriment of the fans.
If the new club’s finances are as precarious as has been stated, then it would point to the share issue being used as a cut and run exercise; but I am not at all convinced of that precariousness.
For example, I don’t accept that The Rangers are paying players an average weekly wage of even as much as £2500. I suspect that the actual figure is considerably less than that, and I hear that basic salaries for the higher quality new players is nearer the £1500 a week mark, with considerably less being offered to the younger guys. Of course performance bonuses would be added to that, but if my figure is correct, Green has a considerable amount of headroom to pay those bonuses.
On the other hand, Green will not have the sponsorship bucks, the media cash, or the prize money that old Rangers would have taken for granted, so there is a defecit there. It may also be of interest to see whether the reported figures for ST sales can be verified. I don’t think it would be churlish for Rangers fans to demand proof of that success before stumping up for a share or two, but one would have to say that reported high figures may well influence an investment decision – and in spite of those impressive numbers (35,000 STs sold) private investors still remain in hiding. It is at times like these that Adam would be an invaluable asset, bringing as he did an alternative and forensic accounting perspective to the somewhat wishful thinking of our non-Rangers tendency 🙂
If the success of Charles Green’s project is determined solely by how much money he makes, then it is in the interest of Rangers fans that any plans to line his own pockets via a share issue (if that is really his intention) are exposed. If Green’s accusers are correct (and let’s not forget that Rangers diehards like John Brown are among their number), then we would have to assume that his biggest success yet has been to get the bears onside, buying imprssively high numbers of STs, after the initial hostility he faced.
Rangers fans who have involved themsleves in critical thinking over the matter will know that some serious damage to the new club will be the result if Green is allowed to pull off any such scam, but they will also know that if he is genuinely invested in the well-being of the club, he is probably their best hope.
That is the dilemma they face.
All talk of stripping titles and history is a red-herring. The real problem for new Rangers is not lost titles or trophy notches on an Ibrox crossbar. It is, as it has been all summer long for old Rangers, survival.
Just to clarify,when I say I’m in favour of bringing in foreign coaches,I’m not necessarily meaning 1st team coaches.I’m talking about coaches who are normally responsible for coaching kids.It has to be a long term commitment.
If we are a site for truth and information then our enemies are those who suppress truth and employ disinformation.There is a strategy for employing these techniques
Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know, don’t discuss it — especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc. If it’s not reported, it didn’t happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.
Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used to show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme
Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such ‘arguable rumors’. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a ‘wild rumor’ from a ‘bunch of Internet bampots’ which can have no basis in fact.
Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent’s argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad.
Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary ‘attack the messenger’ ploy,
Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded aka trolls
Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias.Charles quoting bogitory for example.
Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough ‘jargon’ and ‘minutia’ to illustrate you are ‘one who knows’
Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials.Step forward Gordon “I know nothing” Smith
Take the ‘high road’ and ‘confess’ with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made — but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, ‘just isn’t so. Computer glitches anyone?
Draw upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues. A ploy frequently used by our “sports” journalists
Vanishing evidence and witnesses. If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won’t have to address the issue. Paper shredders and a number of key players seem to have disappeared
Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments
Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can’t do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated
In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable as we currently witness over the Phil Mc G book
Call a Special Prosecutor, or other empowered investigative body. Subvert the (process) to your benefit and effectively neutralize all sensitive issues without open discussion. Once convened, the evidence and testimony are required to be secret when properly handled.
This is what we see with a closed door FTT hearing and SFA/SPL conventions
Create bigger distractions.Has the five past midnight registration/proposed share issue led us astray from discussing the real facts
Silence critics. sometimes by blackmail or threats and sometimes by withdrawing coverage of their words ie the Sun serialisation . I am concerned that RTC may have been got at and decided to retire prematurely
Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets and you think the heat is getting too hot to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen. Maybe to a quiet vineyard in Sth France or by canoe to Costa Rica or if thats not practical just hide in a cupboard at Hampden
The truth is out there, the evidence is out there, if we allow them to sweep it under the carpet and move on then they win and we lose .
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
September 9, 2012 at 10:04
Doesn’t Mark Wotte qualify as a foreign coach?
From what I’ve heard from him, he has the ideas that are being called for on here. I know for a fact that Ian Cathro does, although he was too talented for our own good and has been poached by a Portuguese side.
Wailing “It’s all rubbish! We’re all rubbish! We need more foreigners!” sounds hopelessly defeatist, even if it were true.
There’s no reason Scots can’t coach kids properly, and there is certainly no need for them to have been a professional footballer to qualify, no matter how good they might have been.
A clear programme of what the kids should be taught and how they should be taught it is all that is needed and doesn’t need to be expensive. The expensive bits of infrastructure can be added if the funding is available but in the meantime the right work is being done.
The trickiest bit is handling the parents of the biggest kids who want every game played to their strengths.
Folks,
Any posts about posts – or about the format or organisation of the blog – will be deleted. We don’t want to clog up the main argument with self analysis.
If there is an issue, please contact us through the appropriate page. We will try to get back to you asap.
The truth is out there but we lose if we do not have freedom of speech.
Administration, governance, planning, development. The list of areas where our association is found wanting goes on and on. In terms of the standard of the game, I would suggest there has been only a slight decline. I suggest we have remained static while others have moved on and continue to do so. Our world ranking now means, without radical improvement, we will never qualify for another major tournament. Being very much a second/third tier nation means we will always face at least two teams with far greater abilities than our own in any qualifying group. Walter Smith showed we can rise in the rankings by playing a negative style. Such advancements are unsustainable long term when built on foundations of sand. Corrective action now will take 10 years of constant work to bear fruit. The SFA sits on its hands when it should stand and lead the way.
The backlash IF sevco( or whatever they were are or might be in the future ) are not dealt with severely by SFA/SPL or judges etc etc (lost track now) will be even more catastrophic for Scottish football let’s hope it’s dealt with swiftly within the rules and get Gordon Strachan in as Scotland manager! Levein is totally hopeless and such a yes man, him and the SFA are becoming more embarrassing by the day and kenny misser should bow out now.
@TSFM
Where is the appropriate page to discuss improvements to the site?
[TSFM: The Contacts page]
Apologies for the hard bitten view of the MSM
This could be an interesting week coming – and to all supporters
Tuesday Wednesday is the EBT procedural etc – so probable usual PR onslaught beginning Monday 10 to dominate the MSM agenda. Usual Hullaballoo well possible. CG may `risk` another SFA “Censure” to boost revenues.
Couple of things that may not make the news or headlines tomorrow – September 10
First Up: GW reported scheduled in court to apply to join CB action vs D+P re: 25m action. Possible just possible that in defending his reputation there may be more insight of the roles and actions during the May 11 fake-over. Think it’s the High Court London – not sure. Of interest, if as scheduled, this is proceeding independently of the Crown Office Investigations.
Second: 12 Noon: Submission Deadline – Creditors Resolution Vote
[D+D 24 August – RESOLUTION (2) – 15.3 That creditors agree to the Joint Administrators outlays for the period 30 June 2012 to 13 August 2012.]
`Outlays` here refers to Appendix 2 – aka what the Admins spent after CG took control & responsibility.
As the bulk vote is HMRC they should be able to know whether R(2) accepted or not very quickly – if not before. That may / could be the last hurdle for BDO to enter stage right subject to LH.
Popcorn week?
Calls for a new manager for the Scotland team are akin to rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.
The ship will still sink.
The questions being asked on this board are not new. It kind of reminds me of the film Network.
I took once took a tour of the BBC Shepherds Bush studios, (if you are ever in London, i’d give it a miss) one thing I did take from it was an illustration of the amount of predictable news. News that is expected. PMQ’s, the football results, basically anything that is calendered in and is easily reported on.
Rolling news relies on these events to fill the schedules more than ever.
How then do we go about shaping the news and framing the questions? How do we even go about asking them?
Do we all open our windows and shout ‘were as mad as hell and i’m not going to take it anymore!’?
Ultimately stories of doom will turn people off the media, hence the reliance on fluff and puff pieces. So how do we frame the question?
How do we turn this steaming pile of negativity that keeps getting shoveled higher and higher into something positive.
How do we frame the issues to show the endgame is not the damp dark basement of football but the green sunlit uplands?
It seems to me ,after reading the posts above ,if we dont have reasonable ,note the word,coaches ,reasonable managers ,reasonable administrators with a reasonable rule book to work from the $64k question ,what the f#ck are these zombies in charge of our game actually getting paid for ,can someone out there come back with a reasonable reply to win the money,your time starts now.tick,tick.
RE: the various comments on whether too much Rangers in the posts.
I think it’s not absolutely true that nothing else matters but the Rangers situation at the moment. It’s true that it is the massive elephant (if not mammoth) in the room (only ignored by the MSM) but other things are still relevant at this moment because of the knock on effect of the Rangers situation.
For example, reformation of the Scottish football administration. This has been talked about widely as something that should come about to prevent a club doing what Rangers did again – as well as fix a lot of other problems – and posters here have mentioned the need for reform of (and reduction of) the bodies involved to prevent the attempts at “fixing” things in future.
This is I think relevant because an opportunity is there (slipping away mind you but still there) to reform things properly before the present incumbents manage to re-establish the old comfy (for them but not everyone else) set up. It needs pushing hard and also getting support from outwith this blog. And it also requires us being clear and exact in what we want.
In fact I’d take up that phrase as a key item for reform: the future body and its rules must be clear and transparent (not tautology – I mean clear as in clear to understand and transparent as in not hidden or obscure). And any situation not covered in any way by the rules applies – requires meeting and vote on what to do with everything open and above board.
That’s my contribution so far anyway – others should make their own and maybe we can build something that could be promoted.
In case I haven’t made myself clear I think this is relevant now even if there is a herd of blue elephants in the room because if we let it lie until the Rangers situation is resolved, the powers that be will have put in place their own “reforms” which will make sure as much as possible of the old corrupt system is still in place.
Nothing about the SFA/SPL is ‘reasonable’ they don’t even follow their own rule book ffs, for years it’s been all about keeping cheats fc ‘on top’ or thereabouts a total clear-out is what’s required and I live in hope that each and every dirty lie they’ve told comes out eventually and they can no longer cover it…….this of course will take years but it WILL happen. 🙂 can’t wait to see their faces and as for that horrible little man who is meant to be in charge of Scotland and not a yes man for cheats fc!! he really doesn’t realise the votes he has lost ……. YET!
Night Terror says:
September 9, 2012 at 12:09
Mark Wotte is,by all accounts doing a grand job.More power to him.I accept that scots could coach kids.I just think that the coaches need to coached on how to teach the skills that our kids require.As for parents,they should let the kids enjoy themselves and stop trying to make them what they want,rather than what the kid wants.I’ve seen it at schoolboy matches.
Most parents should just shut up and let the team coach get on with it!
Alex McLeish on Sky Sports’ “Goals On Sunday” this morning, commenting on Rangers, EBTs and title-stripping:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNE3X2UPZac
Visibly uncomfortable for a few seconds, but otherwise trotting out the old familiar party line.
OFF TOPIC SLIGHTLY BUT TIES IN SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE………There are on the other hand all the parents who have given up their free time to help with children’s football teams and families who are struggling financially who in the last couple of years have seen the hire of pitches etc for their children to train on in some cases double in price?? And while on my soap box….. The government keeps telling us that children have to eat healthily and do exercise??? Fair enough so they put up the prices of healthy food? And sell off most of the school playing fields? DOH explain someone please!?!?!
Don’t forget guys… your chance to watch two decent football teams on Alba TV starting 4.05pm today.
🙂
Or even better, make your way to Firhill. 🙂 🙂
monster_mind
A wee bit uncomfortable. Just a pity the interviewer didn’t know what questions to ask.
He can keep his tainted medals as a wee reminder that they did nothing illegal(Aye, right!) – Out of his depth, quite clearly!
Brenda says:
September 9, 2012 at 14:52
OFF TOPIC SLIGHTLY BUT TIES IN SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE………There are on the other hand all the parents who have given up their free time to help with children’s football teams and families who are struggling financially who in the last couple of years have seen the hire of pitches etc for their children to train on in some cases double in price?? And while on my soap box….. The government keeps telling us that children have to eat healthily and do exercise??? Fair enough so they put up the prices of healthy food? And sell off most of the school playing fields? DOH explain someone please!?!?!
===========================================================================
Ties in with me,Brenda.
Posted earlier on that the public authorities only pay lip service when it comes to providing facilities.Finding funds seems to be difficult,unless it’s to pay for high profile events like the Olympics or in Glasgows case,The Commonwealth Games.We’re now preparing a bid for the Youth Olympics in 2018.Ask for long term funding to subsidise the day to day sporting activities of Scotlands kids and you’ll find that’s another matter.
twopanda bears says:
September 8, 2012 at 11:21
Isn’t that the correct approach?
Any concern regarding payments to non-players seems irrelevant to the SPL or SFA regulations. It might be a matter for the tax authorities or some other legal investigation, but it seems to me appropriate to focus on players.
Webster
This blog/forum would not exist if we had trust in the independence and freedom of our press.
Would anyone disagree with the following?
The game must be actively managed to achieve important overall goals. The current
game lacks an agreed set of aims and this allows each constituent part to pursue its own aims and agenda which can create tensions and conflict and lead to an inefficient use of resources, lack of transparency and clarity and fragmentation of thinking and policy delivery.
What is needed is stronger central direction and leadership of the game. There is a need for a vision, a plan for realizing this vision and then a dynamic intent to implement the plan.
Such a plan will identify function and then create the form based on building on existing
strengths, addressing existing weaknesses and shortcomings. The plan will be based on
evidence and knowledge, an assessment of challenges, problems and opportunities in
2010 linked to a definition of vision and mission, objectives and outcomes and then determining the direction for the future and the shape of the SFA.
This will produce recommendations based on what is in the interests of the national
game regardless of the narrow sectional, personal, institutional and representative
interests which currently influence our thinking and our collective actions: these have to
be acknowledged and understood but they should not be allowed to undermine or dominate the bigger and more important national priorities.
· Without a clear sense of national focus Scottish football will drift around issues, giving
too much importance to the less significant and too little consideration to the really
important issues.
The above could have been written by a few TSFM/RTC contributors and got the thumbs up. However what is interesting about these statements is that they were lifted directly from
The Review of Scottish Football
PART 2
Football’s choice: facing the future
by Henry McLeish.
All of which raises questions regarding the SFA’s initial response to Rangers demise in that narrow self interests appear to have taken precedence and begs the question about the wisdom of upcoming attempts to restructure the game BEFORE restructuring the governance of it if the same narrow self interests continue to be pursued.
In his report McLeish goes on to make a number of recommendations, some of which will still stand but some of which may require adjustment in light of experience since he produced his report. We should not throw the babay out with the McLeish bathwater but we should ensure it stays warm enough.
I was reminded of all this when looking for a Mission Statement for the SFA because the question is not “are they fit for purpose” but “what IS their purpose?”.
As MCleish himself says elsewhere in his report this is not a matter of tinkering around the edges, what is required is a change of culture at the SFA which McLeish refers to when he says
” There is no performance culture within the SFA and for all intents and purposes the work is isolated in silos. It is constantly worth repeating that much of the
weakness of the SFA is based on legacy and history and a traditional mind- set that
surrounds the work of the institution.”
Now the problem as I see it is that the SFA simply do not have the skills, competence and possibly the will in house to bring about that cultural change and so the question that has to be asked of Mr Regan and the SFA is just how are they going to make the changes, that are clearly needed, happen?
Who is charged with bringing change about?
When do they start?
How will they do it?
When will their recomendations start to be implemented?
We need committment and a timetable, not rhetoric and they are needed pdq.
(With thanks to MAXX from video Celts.)
“According to BBC figures, Alex McLeish signed 32 players with EBTs, (Advocaat signed 17.) Of the 32, the BBC say they have actually seen side letters (double contracts) for 26, including Prso – 1.9 million, Ferguson – 2.5 million, Nerlinger – 1.8 million, Buffel – 1.2 million, Muscat – 1 million and Novo – 1.2 million. The BBC also claim to have seen a side letter for McLeish’s 1.7 million.
According to the BBC, McLeish is by far the worst abuser/user of the EBT system at the Bogitdome.”
He was Rangers manager from 2001 to 2006. During that period, David Taylor was Chief Executive of the SFA. (He was preceded by Jim Farry 1990-1999 and Ernie Walker 1977-1990.)
Has David Taylor been asked if everything was “legal”, as McLeish claims? And would the fact that he left his position at the SFA to become joint General Secretary of Uefa, have anything to do with why Uefa have sat on their @rses and done nothing about the debacle which is Scottish football, the SFA, the SPL and Rangers/Sevco?
I also assume that David Taylor and Campbell Ogilvie knew each other.
A radical solution?
As the SFA continues to be corrupt/inept/non-communicative etc…
Perhaps we should support the preference of FIFA to have only one UK FA?
That’s one sure way to get the blazers turfed out!
And the bonus would be that we would be spared watching painfully bad Scotland team performances. (Too far? 😉 )
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan on September 8, 2012 at 11:36
For those of a conspiratorial disposition I’m sure that point, ‘H’ and point ‘H’ in BRTH contains no subliminal message
HH 😉
In BRTH post!
monster_mind
Pants on fire!!! Eck
Slightly OT, that is the (absolutely fantastic) Paralympics coming to an end this evening, which means that Stuart Cosgrove will be back on Off the Ball. It may now sound less like the Daily Record than it has been over the last 3 weeks in his absence.
Re coaching skills.
Was a decent player but not great. However I know the mechanics of how to bend a ball (helped by a terrible slice on the golf course). I can still get a decent bend on the ball. I can certainly pass that info onto kids. If a kid just worked for a hour a day taking free kicks then its Bend it like Beckham time. And that’s the problem not enough regular and constant practice of the basics, even at supposed pro levels. A professional golfer will hit more balls in one week than some players will practice taking a free kick or penalty in a life time. (Well maybe not but it won’t be far off the truth.)
StevieBC says:
September 9, 2012 at 16:20
Perhaps we should support the preference of FIFA to have only one UK FA?
That’s one sure way to get the blazers turfed out!
And the bonus would be that we would be spared watching painfully bad Scotland team performances. (Too far? )
=========
Yes, much too far, or not far enough, depending how you look at it. The answer to a corrupt SFA is NOT a merger with the English FA. The answer to a corrupt SFA, which is clearly rotten to the core, is for the clubs to finally take some responsibility and clean it up. This can be sorted out by the clubs at any time. No need for public enquiries, no need for hand wringing, just get it done.
The answer to painful Scotland performances is to improve the standard of Scottish football. You don’t scrap the team because it isn’t playing well. I am not happy with the state of the SFA or the national team, but the answer is to fix them, not scrap them. That is why I am here- hoping in some small way to help make things better.
Please all think about it- a merger of FA’s is just all of RFC/Sevco’s dreams come true. The reward for corrupting and almost destroying Scottish football, defrauding the public revenue, and breaking every rule in the book? Exactly what you wanted in the first place- access to the EPL.
And those of us who have supported Scotland through thick and thin for over 50 years? All our hopes and dreams destroyed, and guess why? Sevco want to play in England. So we have to lose our national FA, and our national team, replaced by “Team UK”. Well all you who have TU’d Stevie’s post can trot off to Wembley to watch your heroes like Terry and Rooney. I’ll pass on that one, thanks, I happen to be Scottish and I’m staying Scottish. I will never, ever watch or support in any way shape or form “Team UK”. What a terrible, horrible idea.
StevieBC @16.20
Radical solution, but one UK FA surely means one UK team and how do we carry the Tartan Army on that one.
Ref the Tartan Army, I am not sure if those on this blog in their efforts to seek help in bringing the SFA to their senses have given sufficient thought to the potential leverage that could be exerted through the T.A. No – one wants to deprive the national team of the unflinching support they receive from the terraces, so a call to boycott matches to bring an economic dimension to the RFC/Sevco debacle seems self-defeating. But what is there to stop a campaign by TA committees, versed with the same knowledge that we are party to, into pressurising the SFA to provide answers to the most relevant questions pdq. If Sevconions can get the Sun to buckle in 24 hours in the face of mass e-mails etc, why can’t we “organise” the TA to do the same. Knowing Scottish internationals are almost a Rangers-free zone, is there mileage in trying to galvanise the TA to do what our MSM patently wont do.
Needs a lot of work, but I believe there is at least an equal amount of frustration at the suits in the SFA currently as there is in the team and it’s present manager. Perhaps the various meetings planned this week, allied to the hopefully imminent FTT ruling, could be enough to bring the TA on board if it is seen to being swept under the carpet yet again.
The sfa/spl/sfl will continue to do nothing until the clubs force action
The clubs will do nothing unless they think they will lose income
The media are ignoring us bampots as it doesnt suit their own agenda and cosy relationship with the game
Much like sevconians are burying their heads and doing nothing, we are just the same.
We need to take more direct action to signal our unhapiness.
I suggest every fan/souporters group who disagrees with what has been happening to the game write to their club and tell them that their future custom is at risk if they continue to do nothing.
This season there shiuld be coordinated protrst days – say the 1st home game of each month from january onwards.
Fans will protest outside the ground before kick off and not go into the game or buy a ticket
Tell the clubs this is a warni g that if proper action is not taken and the reforms to the game not made. Then they can expect mass walkings away.
We are being ignored. Without action this is a talking shop.
The sfa and league bodies are killing the game and we are letting them. The spl acted when fans threatened to ealk away. Cutting off the money is the only thing we can do to make them take note and act.
Rangers fans and staff are currently suffering a bereavement. The child psychologist John Bowlby describes the syndrome as part of his ‘Attachment and loss’ theory. I seen an example today at the swimming pool when a wee boy lost his maw. He cried and wandered about a wee bit. When he eventually found her he continued to cry despite his maw comforting him. Later I saw them both in the pool, happy as can be.
The sequence of actions is that an individual suffers the loss of an attachment figure. They wander around the likely places where that attachment figure is likely to be found. When they are reunited the lost individual berates their attachment figure for being absent. Later they make up and carry on as before.
Bereavement is a special case of loss of an attachment figure. In such cases there is no retrieval of the person lost. Bowlby’s theory is that bereavement is such a rare experience in an individual’s life that evolution has not provided a separate mechanism to deal with it. Instead the same sequence is gone through. There is a fruitless search of the old haunts for the lost person. The need to chastise the lost person still exists. That frustration is taken out on anyone who may be culpabale for the loss. If the person suffering the loss is not gently counselled concerning their frustrations there is a danger that a psychosis will develop and ‘trigger’ events will cause the frustration to re-emerge periodically in later life.
Rangers fans are not being consoled over their loss. They are being encouraged to deny the loss. I think this may not augur well.
Since blogs like this might be unjustly identified with the loss of their old club, it is perfectly understandable that it should become a target for unresolved frustration.
A couple of points for discussion here:-
1. A few folk have mentioned the Wee Tax Case admission of liability by Rangers as proof that they are guilty of dual contracts ahead of the forthcoming investigation. If I remember correctly this case involved discounted share options (albeit administered via an EBT) for Flo and DeBoer. I don’t recall however anyone suggesting that these payments weren’t in the players contract, as lodged with the SFA. Is it not just the case that the DSO arrangement, even if through an EBT, resulted in some form of tax liability for the club and this is why they then switched to Paul Baxendale Walker’s scheme? I may have this completely wrong but I don’t think acceptance of a tax liability from the WTC is any proof of anything being missing from these particular players contracts. Please correct me if my understanding of this is wrong.
2. My main point, and one of greater relevance to the the long term viability of The Rangers, concerns the season ticket numbers and the estimated revenues from these that are being used to calculate breakeven points etc. Although 30-35,000 season tickets are reported as being sold I think someone should be asking how many of these are full price adult tickets, and how many are children’s £68 tickets. I raise this because, despite not knowing a great number of TRFC fans, I know of 2 who, although proclaiming diehard loyalty to their team (one even has the tattoos to prove this), have fraudulently purchased junior season tickets for themselves this season. If I know of two then I wonder just how many of the tickets sold are actually kids tickets being used by adults (I’ve no idea what sort of checks on ticket use are in place at Ibrox, nor do I care). If these are the loyal fans Charles Green is relying on buying into a share issue then I’m afraid he’s on to plums if he thinks he’ll be raising enough to fulfil whatever plan he’s hatched. I suppose I shouldn’t have been surprised when I found this information out as these fans are only doing the same as their club has done for years, paying as little as possible whilst demanding the same benefits and level of service that others receive for paying in full but they don’t see how ironic it is that they are financially shafting the club they love just months after the club shafted everyone else in the country (I know it’s not the same club, but they don’t). Any estimates of season ticket revenue on here may need to be downgraded and Mr Green’s hope that all of his loyal fans will subscribe to a share issue is severely misguided.
Night Terror says at 15:35
t
wopanda bears says:
September 8, 2012 at 11:21
Not taken long for the SPL to cultivate the ground
“In relation to Players”
Managers, Coaches, Transfer dealings, Board Members, and Owners seem not to be included.
– Quelle Surprise
______________
Isn’t that the correct approach?
Any concern regarding payments to non-players seems irrelevant to the SPL or SFA regulations. It might be a matter for the tax authorities or some other legal investigation, but it seems to me appropriate to focus on players.
_____________
NT – a v complex question actually – I`ll spare everyone [and JC three espressos!] with one paragraph;
To me, common sense would suggest a SPL EBT Inquiry would include SPL Managers, SPL Coaches, SPL Owners, and SPL Directors who were in receipt of an EBT whilst in the SPL – and all their SPL signings / transfers with enhanced EBT Contracts – would be a part of it [For all Clubs] – But that`s just me mate – I`m old fashioned
It appears Matador Sports are behind the crossbar con, sorry challenge. Anyone heard of them?
I wonder to whom the money will go to if nobody wins the con, (sorry that keeps popping up), challenge.
By the way is the rumour true that it is a beach ball that will be used.
gie’s a gonk
Have been known to lurk on RM from time to time. Have noticed a number of threads and individual posts relating to season books and attendance. Several posters have drawn attention to the strange phenomenon of their season card working, but no payment having been taken from their account. Teething problems, realting their new bank, which have never dealt with this type of business before? Have also noticed a number of posters talking about getting their kids first season cards or one for an elderly relative who hasn’t been for years. This is further evidenced by many remarks praising the number of new young faces at Ibrox.
@scotzine: Matador Sports domain which was registered by Matador Creative Ltd – company’s accounts are long overdue and on 31 Aug 2012 there was a notice in the Gazette stating that the company has a dissolution notice on it.
gie’s a gonk says:
September 9, 2012 at 18:56
In the calculator I linked to the 33,000 total was discounted as follows:
SB Income SFL
Adult 28,000 £258 £7,224,000
Concessionary 3,000 £179 £537,000
Child 2,000 £65 £130,000
33,000 £7,891,000
The numbers of each are guesses but a discount as applied as VAT at 20%
From celticfcblog on KDS
There is something decidedly about this new Rangers contest offering their fans the chance to win £1million if they hit the crossbar from the halfway line.
Especially when the official Website page suggests it is being run from a hairdressing supplies warehouse in Troon.
Mugs will pay £1.50 per text or £1.53 plus standard network charge if they are stupid enough to enter and can answer the really hard question:
Where do Rangers play their home games: A. Tynecastle; B. Ibrox. C. Hampden. (Correct answer, of course is: D. Nowhere, because they’re deid ).
Or they can even enter their kids before the contest closes at midnight on the 30th April 2013.
The website page suggests that the contest is being organised by Matador Sports.
There is no such company. And the URL matadorsports.co.uk contains only a logo.
But the contact address for Customer Services is given as: Call Centre Sales Scotland Ltd., First Floor, 1 Dukes Road, Troon KA10 6QR.
Again, there is no such company as Call Centre Sales Scotland Ltd.
However, Callcentresales (Scotland) Ltd was registered to an accountants office in Kilmarnock last August.
Its Director is Kelly Munro, who is also a Director of Call Centre Sales Ltd, which appears to have negative shareholders funds of £-130,000.
And whose shareholders include Stagecoach co-owner Brian Souter.
The Call Centre business seems to have been set up by serial entrepreneur Gordon Cowan (George Gordon Cowan on official forms) and operates out of Argyll House in Livingston.
But the only director now listed is Kelly Munro, who is listed on LinkedIn as General Manager of hairdressing supplies firm Hairdu & Beauty Ltd.
Who operate out of a small warehouse unit at 1 Dukes Road, Troon.
All in all, I’m sure there’s nothing for Rangers fans to worry about.
I spent 15years in Kids coaching until my arthritis got so bad l could no longer do it.In that period l did the SFA coaching courses (never ever saw a badge).I wrote to several clubs asking to watch their training sessions l was never denied access so went to sessions with Motherwell under McLeish (good story there about the media which l will post later),Celtic,Rangers under Smith (infact Walter Smith asked me back to another session).Attended a closed training session under Craig Brown’s Scotland squad at Hampden.Was present at the invite of Ajax at their training session at lbrox the night before they played Rangers in the CL. Every training session l and the other coaches who helped me did was about the ball. I heard the Dutch guy who is head of the new SFA programme say getting kids to run in training sessions should be outlawed. I laughed as l was told the same thing by a Danish coach Rangers had , he said he couldn’t believe it when he came here and saw young kids doing as he put it “running and running round the pitch.” I was not a good coach, none of the kids l had turned pro. But l was out there trying, at one time it was literally every night apart from a Friday and both Saturday and Sunday. I tried and l saw a lot of good guys trying to find a way to make our football better. I even saw one coach implement the Ajax idea of testing teenage players recovery heat rate to see if they had started puberty (This was something l got from Ajax who used this to change the way players trained, once they moved into puberty the ratio of physical to technique training changed but only then). This guy was doing it on a wet, cold, dark night in January outdoors. The things l was being told and seeing all those years ago are still being thought of as new. Every team l watched did piggy in the middle, so l make it part of every session. I heard Inesta say what make him a good player”roundo,roundo,roundo”.Football is,como siempre, simple, move for the pass, pass & move.
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 8, 2012 at 23:29
there is plenty wrong with scottish football to be discussed however, the current format of this blog/forum is not suitable to have more then 1 discussion running at any one time
This BLOG needs to have a forum section attached to it.
——–
Firstly, thanks to all who showed concern at my pram/toy-ejection moment. Sorry, everyone. Excuse: something I’d been working very hard on setting up at work fell through due to the decision of a third party, and I was somewhat miffed. 🙂
Secondly – this guy is right, you know. A forum would make things so much easier.
Getting back to those in charge of the game in SCOTLAND!!! They’re both English !!! They’re hardly going to be patriotic are they? They are stamping all over it and we are allowing it…….EVERY LAST ONE OF US WHO PROCLAIM TO LOVE THE GAME…..ACTION IS NEEDED NOW!!! Sorry for shouting but I really am at the end of my rope with the sh!t that is going on.
Doon the slope says:September 9, 2012 at 16:17
“According to BBC figures, Alex McLeish signed 32 players with EBTs, (Advocaat signed 17.) Of the 32, the BBC say they have actually seen side letters (double contracts) for 26, including Prso – 1.9 million, Ferguson – 2.5 million, Nerlinger – 1.8 million, Buffel – 1.2 million, Muscat – 1 million and Novo – 1.2 million. The BBC also claim to have seen a side letter for McLeish’s 1.7 million.
According to the BBC, McLeish is by far the worst abuser/user of the EBT system at the Bogitdome.”
===========================================
Wonderful Doon the Slope – any of you out there fancy sending the info above to Sky??
goalsonsunday@skysports.com
I said l would post a story about the media an Alex McLeish . Well it was at the time when he was the manager of Motherwell and he was being touted as the next manager of Hibs. I spent the day with him watching the Motherwell players training, he had an injury was was not able to take part, so we stood at the side watching. The next day the Record had the story to the effect of ‘McLeish doesn’t take training, locked in talks with Hibs’. I haven’t believed a word in that paper since.
fair play to Gordon Waddell in The Sunday Mail today for saying what a lot of us have been saying about Chuckie Green’s money making plans
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gordon-waddell-rangers-chief-wants-1314169
Also Andrew Smith in Scotland on Sunday had a nice sideswipe at the corrupt Scottish Sun for not publishing book about Rangers(ia) Downfall because of alleged bogitry- but keeping Andy Goram as a columnist!
Right now in my opinion, Charlie is in a race against the clock
At the moment he will be running the club on the season ticket money, which will most certainly not last for a full season when you factor in the drain on resources that Ibrox and Murray Park represent
You then have to factor in the £5.5 million purchase price for the assets, and although we don’t know for sure whether or not it has been paid as yet, at some point it will have to be
Charlie said there would be £30 million in the bank by the end of July, and billionaire investors would be revealed very soon (this was more than a few weeks ago), but to the best of our knowledge neither has materialised, and if they had Charlie would have been yelling it from the rooftops, so I think we can discount those as income streams
Other income streams are limited in comparison to what RFC(IA) were used to, which makes me think this proposed flotation has more than a touch of panic about it
If it doesn’t raise the money required, then I think Charlie will be looking down the barrels of another insolvency event, sooner rather than later
Time is not on his side
As their has been no publication of what exactly the “five part agreement” is, why do people assume that SEvCO will take part in the pre hearing and indeed will have a right to do so?
Why is no one asking what was agreed, why would it appear to be confidential?
I still believe that SevcO do not deserve to be punished for the indiscretions of the previous club.
If fact I do not know how they can be, the history is not theirs it never belonged to them.
The license was transfered, the assets were purchase.
History is created,not purchased.
THE Rangers have their own history, they played their first game this year in the Ramsdens cup and their first league game in the SFL3, there history is from then.
They have no gripe with the SPL, they have never played in the SPL, indeed the SPL refused to have them.
They should not be attending any meetings concerning the workings of the SPL or any hearings involving the SPL, they have no place in the SPL, the rest of the SPL clubs should be questioning why they are involved.
The real problem for Scottish football will occur when, not if, the next club suffers an insolvency event.
What will the SPL/SFA/SFL do?
Will the same chaos that we have all witnessed over the last seven months happen again?
I think we all know the answer to that question but therein lie’s the problem!
If the above organisations deviate in anyway from the already laid down path of obfuscation, delay, ignoring of rules, and wilful negligence then they are going to have to justify it, not only to the club in difficulty, but to every fan in Scotland.
They may even have to explain it in a court of law and that would be very interesting indeed. We may finally get a glimpse of the minutes of meetings and even a view of the five way agreement which will probably be legally shredded in court.
The real problem is that the precedents set during this fiasco have now made it impossible for Scottish football to move forward.
They have made it impossible for any team to go out of business as long as there is some ‘chancer’ willing to pay administrators (who barely merit the name) for a package way below market value.
I have been following Scottish football for nearly fifty years now and I’m of the opinion that coaching in this country in particular, but also worldwide, has knocked all the imagination and free thinking out of even the most talented players. Anyone who appreciates good football will, I’m sure, agree with me football at it’s best is an art form and the best players are artists of the game. The over reliance on tactics and formations leaves no room for the young player to use his mallum, that is imagination, confidence to experiment, to be creative and thus improve. There is an exception to this and that is goalkeeping which again in my opinion has improved over the years and it is my conjecture that this is because goalies don’t have to go on the park with their heads filled with as much tactical and strategic nonsense. When they go to training they spend much more time in honing their skills. Whereas I believe, no I can see, that the basic skills of holding and passing of outfield players have deteriorated quite markedly over the years, if a player comes across a situation not covered by what he has been coached his lack of imagination and creativity become obvious.
This I also blame on the policy of signing on boys to senior clubs when they are too young, this restricts the young lads scope for playing. They can’t play for their school, local boys clubs, BB’s or Scouts or whatever. They are even reluctant to play in the traditional local street take-on( if they still exist in the computer age).
My point is that they don’t get as much chance of playing football games that matter to them even if it is only to crow over the laddies in the next street or whatever. Winning a training game at the coaching session does not replace the bravado of beating your local rivals and feeling like a bit of a hero even if it is only your backgreen or public park. We have been cutting off the avenues for our young footballers to feel gallus for many years now. The minute any lad shows any promise he is snapped by whatever club. The big clubs in both England and Scotland seem to do this in good part to stop rival or smaller clubs getting them and if a lad makes grade there is usually very little room to get anywhere near the first team, so when they are told they are surplus to requirements, the young player’s confidence is often dented so badly that they lose their interest in playing. How can the so called coaches tell at fifteen or sixteen how good a player is going to be in ten years time. They sign laddies on when the senior team is full of foreign signings and stopgap players and it is nigh on impossible for a lad to come up through the ranks.
To sum up I think that modern coaching stifles natural football talent and confidence. And that cynical club signing policies are destroying the game from the real grass roots up and that is why Scotland put in poor performance after poor performance. And I cannot see any improvement in this situation, the standard of football Worldwide is dropping for these same reasons, although the European Championships this year were a lot better than I expected, but this is just a blip in my humble opinion.
When you look at the better teams and players, it’s not just how comfortable they are with the ball that makes them superior to British teams and players, it is their speed of thought
Some are without doubt born with it, but I believe that for the majority, it is coached into them
They are taught to think, something that is probably sadly lacking in our coaching methods
If we can get our coaches to include that in all of their sessions, then there may just be a way forward
Angus says:
September 9, 2012 at 20:01
5 2 i
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Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 8, 2012 at 23:29
there is plenty wrong with scottish football to be discussed however, the current format of this blog/forum is not suitable to have more then 1 discussion running at any one time
This BLOG needs to have a forum section attached to it.
——–
Firstly, thanks to all who showed concern at my pram/toy-ejection moment. Sorry, everyone. Excuse: something I’d been working very hard on setting up at work fell through due to the decision of a third party, and I was somewhat miffed.
Secondly – this guy is right, you know. A forum would make things so much easier.
_____________________________-
“A forum would make things so much easier.”
It might make it easier for posters on here but it will double the work for the moderators on here.
campsiejoe says:
September 9, 2012 at 20:58
Some are without doubt born with it, but I believe that for the majority, it is coached into them
They are taught to think, something that is probably sadly lacking in our coaching methods.
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Joe, the difference is the ones who aren’t coached to be robotic are the stars of the game.
You can coach a Centre Half which positions to take up, it doesn’t make him a better player.
Wingers can be coached what to do when they don’t have the ball, but it is what they do when they have the ball that makes the difference, this cannot be coached, practice makes perfect.
The only coaching which helps is to attempt to make players use both feet, in my opinion, if Naismith had a left foot yesterday, Scotland win.
In the words of Wim Jansen, the players did not come in for training or coaching, they came in to practise. He said they were paid too much money for him to attempt to coach them He practised formations, rather than coached players.
smallteaser @ 21:13
I know they are at the top end of the game, but when you look at Barca, Real, Bayern etc, the speed with which they move the ball, the way players run into position ready to receive the pass, their awareness of what is going on around them, isn’t something that just happens
They are taught and they are coached to play the game that way
I’m afraid I am going to have to disagree with you, as what you are describing is where we are now, and we need to think beyond that
When I started going to games with my Dad, he always said to me, don’t follow the ball, follow the players, watch what they are doing, and that was way back in 1966, and I still do it to this day
campsiejoe on September 9, 2012 at 20:58
Ajax worked on a system they called TIPS Technique Insight Personality Speed, when considering whether a player was good enough:
Technique = does the player have the skills
Insight = as to the overall way the game is played
Personality = does the player have the personality to make it in the game
Speed = not only physical but speed of thought.
This isn’t new or rocket science, Alan Hanson tells of Shankly telling him the first ten yards were in his head.
I don’t know about other coaches but l always told people football is played with your brain .
I don’t have enough personal knowledge to know if,as yout suggest, this isn’t taught by other coaches.
If your personal circumstances allow why don’t you consider taking up coaching. I wish l could still do it but my arthritis means l can hardly walk up stairs let alone kick a ball . But you should give it a go. It’s hard work very demanding but worth it.
justshatered says:
September 9, 2012 at 20:41
4 0 Rate This
The real problem for Scottish football will occur when, not if, the next club suffers an insolvency event.
What will the SPL/SFA/SFL do?
Will the same chaos that we have all witnessed over the last seven months happen again?
==========
What if the next club is the same club as this time?
Celticbhoy @ 21:31
The spirit would be willing, but the flesh would most certainly be weak
At 63 I think my time has passed
Since we have somehow ended up talking about the future of Scottish football (I know!), here are some links to interviews with my hero Ian Cathro.
He’s not really my hero, but it gives me some confidence that his approach has been recognised by the SFA and been given credibility by Levein, despite Cathro never having played at any level and being very young. There is hope.
An interesting bit of audio with Jim Spence:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8110970.stm
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/more-scottish-football/youth-football-investigation-part-1-ian-cathro-the-23-year-old-behind-dundee-united-s-academy-insists-open-minds-and-open-ears-are-the-secret-to-success-1.1018843
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/more-scottish-football/local-hero-ian-cathro-of-dundee-united-1.822792
Joe, one of the best penalty box strikers I remember was Gerd Mueller, nobody could coach where or when he would make his runs.
I remember Vincent Company European debut, against Celtic, where the old head beside him was sent off early doors, he couldn’t be coached to deal with Larson & Sutton, he was/is just a good player.
Coaching for formations and set pieces, not for skills.
Maybe this will help the coating debate?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8688093.stm
‘According to European football’s governing body Uefa, Spain had almost 15,000 Uefa A and Pro Licence coaches in 2008 – more than double the number of any other European nation. And that is despite it taking 750 study hours to acquire a Pro Licence in Spain, compared with just 245 in England.
“The federation has really focused on getting people qualified and to the level where they can go to other countries and coach,” says Calvo. “It’s not just in professional football, it runs right through the system. You have to have the same qualification to work in schools as you do to work in the top division.
UEFA A & PRO COACHES
SPAIN ——————– 14,860
GERMANY —————- 6,570
FRANCE ——————- 2,588
ITALY ———————– 1,810
NETH’NDS —————– 1,137
ENGLAND —————– 1,010’
campsiejoe on September 9, 2012 at 21:37
Sorry to hear that.
l am ten years your junior and can’t do it any longer. I went to watch a kids game last week and just wanted to ask the coach if l could work with his keeper as he look not bad but most importantly he was dead keen. As l was told he didn’t get any coaching wanted to offer to help but couldn’t.
campsiejoe says:
September 9, 2012 at 21:30
‘..their awareness of what is going on around them, ‘
—–That is the key.
It enables them to be where they need to be to take delivery, control the ball, and decide ( by reference to their-second-by-second mental map of where everybody is) which option to choose ( including taking a man on or evading a tackle) with maybe even a full second or two in hand.
If you ally that with the phenomenal degree of trust that the Barcas of the world have that their team-mates will likewise be where they ought to be in any given permutation, every second of a game,any player’s game will improve.
smallteaser says:
September 9, 2012 at 21:48
Sounds pretty much like what we’ve been doing for decades, Hugh.
Do you not think there is a problem in skills?
Isn’t it a problem that Johnny Russell, one of the best young Scottish players right now, has no right foot?
When it comes to kids coaching he most important thing to remember is it is a wee boy with a ball and a dream you are working with, not a professional player. Neil Armstong’s father was asked by the media after the moon landing what it was like to have raised a hero he said he didn’t raise a hero he raised a son.
Welcome back, Angus!
Great links, Night Terror – thank you.
smallteaser @ 21:48
I can’t disagree with that, because as you point out with your examples, you’ve either got the skill or you haven’t, and no amount of coaching will make you skillful
Players still have to be coached as to what to do with that skill, how best to use it
You talk about formations, but what formations did the most successful club and international sides play
They may have had a nominal formation, but it was totally fluid, because players were taught to think, and didn’t stick rigidly to formations as we do today
I guess we just see things differently, and we will probably never agree on this
Cortes says:
September 9, 2012 at 22:05
They’re interesting, aren’t they?
I was stunned when I first came across Cathro, he just seems to be right about the important things on many levels and is able to talk about it brilliantly.
I have some background in personal development, coaching etc and he at 22 was far more mature and considered in his opinions than mangers up to quite senior levels in big companies.
Night Terror says:
September 9, 2012 at 21:58
Isn’t it a problem that Johnny Russell, one of the best young Scottish players right now, has no right foot?
==========
Really?
It’sagoal! says:
September 9, 2012 at 20:19
‘.Also Andrew Smith in Scotland on Sunday had a nice sideswipe at the corrupt Scottish Sun for not publishing book about Rangers(ia) Downfall because of alleged bogitry- but keeping Andy Goram as a columnist..’
—-Yes, I thought that was an interesting example of extreme inconsistency on the part of the Sun.And well done Andrew Smith for mentioning it.
It’sagoal! says:
September 9, 2012 at 20:19
Also Andrew Smith in Scotland on Sunday had a nice sideswipe at the corrupt Scottish Sun for not publishing book about Rangers(ia) Downfall because of alleged bogitry- but keeping Andy Goram as a columnist!
——
I once got a mention in his column for suggesting Mark McGhee and Imhotep from The Mummy films as lookalikes. 🙂
Him and Aidan Smith in SoS are highly readable, and obviously East coast journalists with no wish to pander to our friends in the West. Truth be told, SoS is the only Sunday paper I read – and that mostly for the fitba reports and columns, which generally lack an OF undercurrent.
Night Terror says:
September 9, 2012 at 22:19
—
Yes, very interesting posts, and thank you for them. What is Cathro doing now? I’m afraid I am singularly backward about the non-playing aspects of the football scene.
Just checking back, I knew something was missing this morning when catching up on the TSFM, the Sunday morning papers did not arrive.
Haste ye back Stunney.
Could we ask the Sun to explain this one away.
Ian Cathro left SFA post late May 2012 to take up post as assistant coach at Rio Ave in Portuguese first division..Headhunted.