THAT Debate, and the Beauty of Hindsight

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TINCKSAPRIL 21, 2017 at 15:09 (EDIT) STEVIEBCAPRIL 21, 2017 at 16:16 …

Comment on THAT Debate, and the Beauty of Hindsight by Allyjambo.

TINCKSAPRIL 21, 2017 at 15:09 (EDIT)
STEVIEBCAPRIL 21, 2017 at 16:16 (EDIT)
JOHN CLARK
APRIL 21, 2017 at 16:24 (EDIT)

Thanks for the acknowledgements, guys. I have to admit I was engrossed in JD’s tweets and desperate to have someone to talk to about it all, would love to be in that courtroom. I just had to post about it and was a wee bit concerned it might come across as a bit naff if everyone else was following it ‘live’, though I am aware that maybe not everyone enjoys twitter, so might welcome updates on here.

I can’t believe how eventful the first day has been, with two very high profile witnesses being given an aparent easy ride, by someone they must both have been a bit chummy with, and certainly thought of themselves as something reaching hero status in his mind; until, boom, ‘the minutes say, Mr Smith…’

I had thought of saying, earlier on, how I hoped the EBTs would be mentioned, and lo and behold, they were. I just hope the impact they had on the debt and liquidation are fully explored as the trial progresses, and the reason why they were necessary – to give Rangers a sporting advantage, a bloody great one, too – is made clear. 

Some people on twitter were disdainful of Findlay, for giving his ‘mates’ an easy ride, but to me he was using what I suspect is his usual tactic, of letting the witness feel he was having that easy ride, then boom, the question that the defence had set him up for was asked. I can’t understand, though, why the prosecution have opened with two witnesses who’ve not said one word of evidence against the accused, then let Findlay cross-examine them.

I think the use of Findlay could be a masterstroke, for no one from RFC can give evidence without thinking that Findlay might know just how much they know, and spot an obvious lie.

If today was just the opener, what awaits…

Allyjambo Also Commented

THAT Debate, and the Beauty of Hindsight
MUNGOBOYMAY 6, 2017 at 19:32 (EDIT)

Thanks for that insight, Mungoboy, I really wish I could make it along to the High Court to witness (but not be a witness 15)  the proceedings myself, for even if we could see a transcript of every word said, the way words are said can often be more telling than their literal meaning. Although a court case is never as dramatic as is portrayed on TV, I’m sure Donald Findlay, with the bit between his teeth, is well worth seeing.
I’d really enjoy seeing those high flying (in their minds) obnoxious smart-arses put in their place, and I’m sure he would love to do that very thing to a number of people involved in the death of his football club!


THAT Debate, and the Beauty of Hindsight
Big PinkMay 6, 2017 at 12:28 (Edit) 
In 2012, when TRFC challenged the transfer ban put together by the “who are these people?” judicial panel, it was reported that FIFA had demanded the SFA take action in response to TRFC’s court action (which FIFA frown upon).I’m struggling to see if this was ever followed up.http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13059822.SFA_fury_as_judge_throws
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It was probably followed up with an informal chat between Regan and whoever was playing the part of TRFC’s Chairman at the time! Seems to be the stringent way in which any problems surrounding TRFC’s participation in Europe are dealt with.


THAT Debate, and the Beauty of Hindsight
easyJamboMay 6, 2017 at 10:59 (Edit)

In truth, EJ, I was more taken aback by the fearlessness of the headline, and though I was unable to read the full article, it was apparent that the writer was referring to the words within the letter, but, as we know, for a great many people who read newspapers, the headline says it all, even though the substance of the article is often the complete opposite! I originally included a mention of the letter but thought it best to avoid mentioning it, so deleted it.

Though I am sure no one will face contempt of court charges, I do think the headline, at least, has drawn a conclusion from the evidence presented, and one from evidence that I am sure is extremely germane to the case, ie did Rangers/Murray know that Whyte was funding the purchase via Ticketus? I wouldn’t be at all surprised if a certain knight of the realm is rather miffed at the Herald today! So well done to them


Recent Comments by Allyjambo

Les Says It is Time to Ask The Audience?
StevieBC 8th May 2020 at 12:54

I think your point was addressed in page 2 of the SPFL letter, Stevie, (sorry, can't copy and paste it) in the paragraph that begins, 'Several of us have also been asked…' where it ends by saying that they can't comment until after the EGM, which I think would naturally be the case.

Can I say that the SPFL board do not seem to have missed TRFC, and in particular Stewart Robertson, and hit the wall. It is also clear from the paragraph I refer to that some of the clubs, at least, share our view that TRFC's actions are/were 'bringing the game into disrepute'. There appears to be genuine anger within the ranks of the SPFL, though it looks like Robertson has been set up to be the sacrificial lamb (or lump under the carpet) and may be used to deflect the full repercussions from the club he was acting on behalf of. 


Les Says It is Time to Ask The Audience?
incredibleadamspark 8th May 2020 at 11:49 Allyjambo, all that’s a possible for sure but I just feel that for some fans it doesn’t matter if you wear the green and grey hoops or an orange away top you will fit your views around certain events in Scottish football to suit predetermined opinions/conspiracies. Scottish football is facing an uncertain future, as is our society, and the way Rangers have went about things has been an absolute embarrassment. I just can not see what they are hoping to achieve. Stay safe.

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I agree that many/most supporters of all clubs (even ones who conflate grey with white) form their opinions around whatever suits their argument, it is more or less the same in every aspect of life, but as you say, TRFC's vindictive attempt at achieving goodness knows what is an absolute embarrassment, especially to thinking bears; and Celtic, whether through integrity or just having smarter people at the top, are extremely unlikely to ever make such a pig's ear of trying to 'encourage' others to facilitate their required outcome.

Hope you stay safe, too.


Les Says It is Time to Ask The Audience?
incredibleadamspark 8th May 2020 at 10:38

While Celtic may well have done their level best to ensure TRFC were not handed the league title I very much doubt they'd have come up with the amateurish 'dossier' type 'evidence' that TRFC have produced. For one thing, they wouldn't have had to try too hard to come up with some sort of leverage, such as Resolution12, or even threaten, privately, to raise the good old secret 5 Way Agreement. 

I'm pretty certain that Celtic could, if they so wished, end the Great Lie and finish off, not only TRFC, but also all those who aided and abetted them while involved in the game's governance in 2012 and for some time before and after. They could also just threaten to raise Financial Fair Play with UEFA showing how TRFC signed players they couldn't afford (even after they'd posted such disastrous, touch and go UEFA compliant, Accounts) that enabled them to go so far in the UEFA Cup.

It certainly appears that Celtic have little to fear from TRFC's vindictiveness in terms of honesty and rule breaking, while the opposite is true the other way round, which is why they, TRFC, have had to go after their erstwhile friends at Hampden.


Les Says It is Time to Ask The Audience?
Is there any posters on here that think TRFC's long awaited 'Dossier' was worth the wait, or does everyone agree that every doubt expressed as to the likelihood of it containing any 'smoking gun' evidence was right on the money?

I've not read it, and never will, but every critique I've read so far makes it clear that no one has found anything in it that should worry the two named SPFL board members, or anyone else involved (other than Stewart Robertson, TRFC's own man) and that it's nothing more than, at best, a list of questions to be answered, if anyone has the time.

Most notably, the distinct lack of any suggestion of 'bullying', far and away the most serious of the 'leaked' allegations, appears to be missing.

I have to say, though, that in my distrust of the game's governors I am a tad disappointed in it's patheticness*, as a can of worms once opened is very difficult to close, allowing more worms out that may at first have been sought. Anyone else feel the same way?

*Not an actual word, maybe, but then TRFC are not actually the club they claim to be either, so it's alright, see!


Les Says It is Time to Ask The Audience?
Tweet from Graham Spiers

"Key part of Rangers’ accusatory statement of April 11: “bullying”. That is a very serious allegation about #SPFL governance. I’m wading through this RFC “dossier” trying to find evidence of “bullying” but haven’t found it yet. But give it time."

I'm sure page 200 will provide the smoking gun and it will take some time for all who have the dossier to reach mail


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