A Guest Blog for TSFM by beatipacificiscotia
As a child I read a poem by John Godfrey Saxe, “The Blind Men and the Elephant”, and stumbled upon it again recently. It is a simple tale of how six blind men encounter an Elephant and attempt to describe the animal:
It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.
The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a WALL!”
You get the idea. The other blind men did little better. The second grabbed the tusk and thought the elephant like a spear. Others thought the elephant like a snake (the trunk), a tree (the leg), a fan (the ear), and finally a rope (the tail). What does this have to do with this blog? Let me explain.
There is a danger of all of us, whether consciously or unconsciously, making the same mistake as these blind gentleman. It is too easy to use the parts of the argument that fit our values and belief system, at the expense of the whole truth. The 13th century Jaina scholar, Mallisena, described a much earlier version of the same tale as a parable to argue that people deny various aspects of truth; deluded by the aspects they do understand, they deny the aspects they don’t understand. He said:
“Due to extreme delusion produced on account of a partial viewpoint, the immature deny one aspect and try to establish another. This is the maxim of the blind (men) and the elephant.”
I am incapable of putting it any better than that, though I would go further. I argue that people are deluded by the aspects that they choose to understand, and deny the aspects that they refuse to understand. Which leads me to my tale …..
I have recently read a news report about a decision taken by the Advertising Standards Authority on advertising activities of The Rangers Football Club Ltd and their claims to history and honours. It includes the following quote referring to advice from the SFA:
“We also consulted with the SFA, which confirmed that its definition of a football ‘club’ varied depending on context, and could sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner.”
I was most unhappy to read this part of the statement. I am yet to see the definition or statement of when you could “sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner”. This is a contradiction to the definition of a football club given by FIFA; a definition which is handed down to the Confederations, and from Confederations to Associations.
You may or may not be aware, the application of good governance in football is administered through club licensing. This annual process ensures that minimum standards are maintained, to promote growth and development, and ultimately protects all of football – every club, every player and staff member, the integrity of every competition, suppliers of goods and services, the reputation of sponsors, and most of all the fans. FIFA Club Licensing Regulations state that a license applicant must be a football club, defined as:
“Legal entity fully and solely responsible for the football team participating in national and international club competitions that applies for a licence.”
This is a clear and unambiguous definition, which is being ignored by the SFA. Why is this issue so important? Simply, a football club must be held responsible for its commercial activities. For example, an over-ambitious and over-spending Rangers changed the Scottish football landscape forever. Other clubs tried to compete in an unsustainable “Cold War”-like football arms race. I believe Scottish football was damaged. Many clubs have been taken to the brink of death. This could happen in any country, in any league, anywhere in the world. For that reason, a football club and its corporate body must be one and the same, living or dying, inseparably intertwined. The separation of club and company is a myth, a myth dangerous to good governance. Rangers (1872-2012) should be a cautionary tale told to every club owner.
There are many benefits to club licensing. These including minimum standards for stadia and infrastructure, youth development programs, and much more. I would heartily recommend that you read the FIFA document if you have the time. It gave birth to the word and spirit of Financial Fair Play. Look at some of the financial benefits detailed:
10.3 Benefits
Implementation of the financial criteria will help deliver both short and long-term improvements for clubs, the licensors and the football family in general. For the football family in general, the financial criteria should help to:
• safeguard the continuity and integrity of competitions;
• increase the transparency and credibility of clubs’ financial operations;
• improve confidence in the probity of the football industry;
• create a more attractive market for the game’s commercial partners and investors; and
• provide the basis for fair competition, because competition is not just about the teams on the pitch.
For the licensors, the financial criteria should help to:
• improve their understanding of the financial position and prospects of their member clubs;
• encourage clubs to settle liabilities to creditors on a timely basis;
• enhance transparency in the money flow of clubs;
• enhance their ability to be proactive in assisting clubs with financial issues; and
• provide a starting point for club benchmarking at a national level for those licensors and clubs who want to develop this aspect.
For the clubs, the financial criteria should help to:
• improve the standards and quality of financial management and planning activities;
• enable better management decision-making;
• enhance clubs’ financial and business credibility with stakeholders;
• improve financial stability; and
• enhance revenue-generating ability and cost management.
Important words, and I trust the value and opportunity these regulations offer are now clear. Note bullet points 3 and 4, and that our top league currently does not have a sponsor. The SFA must ensure the integrity of competitions, discourage financial recklessness, and protect football for everyone. This is only possible with a clear, unambiguous statement that confirms club / company are one and the same thing.
To suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation is to undermine the definition of what is a football club, one of the cornerstones of FIFA Club Licensing Regulations. For the SFA to suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation, or allow this belief to go unchallenged, is a shameful dereliction of duty. It puts all of football in danger. We cannot allow this. There is too much at stake.
The poem ends thus:
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!
The blind men were each partially right, though in their vanity / stubbornness / ignorance they failed to find the truth. There is a lesson for us all in this story. This may appear to be an attempt to renew the old club / new club debate. It is not. To see this as an opportunity to score points against Rangers fans is to completely miss the point – you have failed to find the truth.
This is global issue affecting one of the fundamentals of good governance. Good governance must be the beating heart of our game – ensuring good health and long life. I am looking at the here and now, and ahead into the future.
We must protect and promote ALL of the FIFA Club Licensing Regulations. To deny any part is to refuse to see the whole elephant, like the foolish blind men.
Carntyne
I’m not sure how many will turn up for Celtic v Aberdeen today.
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Surely there should be a big crowd.
It’s a rarity for the Celtic support, a competitive home game with an uncertain outcome that means something. Add the relatively large Aberdeen away support.
Take into consideration that the league was won before a ball is kicked, there have been four European games and little more. The League-Cup tie against Morton was more a nasty surprise than an eagerly anticipated Cup-tie.
I think the Celtic ST holders can look forward to another large discount for next season.
Greenock Jack says:
February 8, 2014 at 11:31 am
3 5 Rate This
Kicker Conspiracy
Your list of teams is all very well but it would be more informative and illustrative if size and boldness of text reflected the amount of corresponding supporting posts or in typical Scottish football analysis, reflected the volume of negative waves towards each team.
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I’m not 100% sure of your drift, but if you mean The Rangers are getting most of the negative waves then surely the remedy lies with their fans.
Nobody is stopping them from posting on here as far as I’m aware.
That might redress the balance somewhat.
Norwich City. There was another canary on RTC too, but I don’t know if he TUPEd over.
ernie says:
February 8, 2014 at 11:50 am
Kicker Conspiracy says:
February 8, 2014 at 11:14 am
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But the big question KC is: “Aye, but who’s your big team?”.
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I’ve already told you. Raith Rovers. 😛
Know what you mean though.
It’s a tiresome question to be asked, which in turn gets you annoyed at the two teams in question, as if they’d asked the question themselves.
Wallace seems like a decent sort…
Let’s hypothetically assume he is not lying and Phil’s statement that administration is not now his ‘preferred’ option is inaccurate like he says: (This could be a linguistic quibble – it may be not his preferred option, but it could still be his ‘only’ option.)
What options might he have?
(a)Wait for someone to bowl up and dump a sackload of used notes at the top of the marble staircase?
This clearly has been the strategy being followed up till now 😯 by his predecessors . But it is becoming high risk and urgently needs reviewed..
(b) D4E swap: “We’re going to make you all redundant to cut costs 😥 . But by the way, we don’t have the cash for pay offs. 🙄 So here are some TRFC shares instead. We tried to punt them on the open market but got not so much as a nibble after they looked at our accounts 😳 . But you would all love to own a piece of the club that fired you wouldn’t you 💡 ? Accepted by all good foodbanks btw!” 😉
What ??? Well… we do have some magic beans if you’d prefer?
(c) Administration.
Tear up the contracts. Ditch the bloat. Ex-Employees all become creditors. HM gov picks up the tab for statutory redundancy (thankyou ma’hm). ‘Leaned’ down club marches on up the leagues. And everyone’s a winner.
Apart from taxpayers, honest creditors, the clubs that could have competed with them more effectively for promotion if they had actually operated within their means all along, and a load of other people who do not matter.
I really can see why (c) would be his least ‘preferred’ option, If he is – as he appears to be – a decent sort of chap.
Unfortunately, (a) is a fantasy and (b) is a mirage.
By trying to raise money to fund the restructuring legitimately, he has – probably uniquely for incumbents of the office he holds- tried to do the right thing.
But he has been thwarted at every turn.
When are February salaries due to be paid?
Greenock Jack says:
February 8, 2014 at 12:15 pm
0 0 Rate This
Carntyne
I’m not sure how many will turn up for Celtic v Aberdeen today.
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Surely there should be a big crowd.
It’s a rarity for the Celtic support, a competitive home game with an uncertain outcome that means something.
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That used to be true, but not anymore.
Look at the low attendance at Ibrox last night.
This was a really meaningful game for The Rangers, the possibility of moving to the quarter finals of the Scottish cup, arguably their biggest game of the season so far, and yet less than 20,000 turned up.
I do expect a bigger crowd than that today, but think 30,000 will be the maximum attendance, a half empty stadium, and I put it down to the expense of attending games.
Most fans pay monthly for season tickets and find it difficult to raise extra cash for cup games.
I exclude the Cup Final which will probably have the usual demand for tickets.
Carntyne
Why bring Rangers into it?
Greenock Jack says:
February 8, 2014 at 12:36 pm
Carntyne
Why bring Rangers into it?
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For the benefit of your Tag Cloud? 🙂
TSFM says:
February 8, 2014 at 10:15 am
I have to admit that I’ve been in despair over the semantic analysis of the Rangers statement, and I still do not think there is anything in the wording that suggests their sidestepping the issue.
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To be charitable to them they may not have wished to give the specific allegations the “oxygen of publicity” in this they have been partially successful but the brevity of the statement tempts further analysis.
Further to my earlier posts suggesting that they have spread rather than killed the story even the Dundee Courier (online – not sure about print) has carried the full PA piece which namechecks Phil.
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/sport/rangers-deny-claims-of-fresh-crisis-1.210325?
Ayr United, 0 trophies 🙁 (dont count divisions 😉 ), signing in
Greenock Jack says:
February 8, 2014 at 12:36 pm
3 7 Rate This
Carntyne
Why bring Rangers into it?
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I think terms such as ‘Rangers’, ‘Sevco’, ‘TRFC’, and so on, would dominate any tag cloud image generated for this blog.
Carntyne says:
February 8, 2014 at 12:06 pm
I’m not sure how many will turn up for Celtic v Aberdeen today.
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Don’t know … are there any Celtic fans inside the stadium at all? Sounds like an Aberdeen home game on the radio. 🙂
Angus1983 says:
February 8, 2014 at 1:57 pm
2 0 Rate This
Carntyne says:
February 8, 2014 at 12:06 pm
I’m not sure how many will turn up for Celtic v Aberdeen today.
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Don’t know … are there any Celtic fans inside the stadium at all? Sounds like an Aberdeen home game on the radio.
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Upper tier looks all closed on the box. An Abergeddon result on the cards here 🙂
Congrats to Aberdeen. From my pov, they fully deserved their win.
Coming from a Celtic fan, I hope this doesn’t sound patronising, but it really is good to see a strong Aberdeen team. I sincerely hope they can sustain it.
As DP says – Abergeddon sucks 🙁
I’m guessing about 35,000? UT closed accounts for about 18000. The rest looked quite solid.
Aye, i read that the Upper Tiers would be closed.
Never mind, I’m away to get royally pished. 🙂 🙂
Best team won.
Well done Aberdeen. The better team won.
At least this avoids the possibility of any Celtic v The Rangers game for another season.
Well done Aberdeen. A deserved victory.
As a supporter of your opponents today I’ll console myself a little with the fact that you may just have deprived a certain financially struggling SFA-sponsored team of the one big pay-day that could have kept them going a little longer.
A game I had no wish to see take place and now won’t have to worry about.
Not in terms of the result, I have to say, but in terms of the sheer awfulness that would have surrounded it.
Hope you get them next. Hope you show them no mercy whatsoever,
We’ll deserved Aberdeen better team won god I hated typing that 😥
It’s a positive that the showpiece game of the Scottish football calander will have more integrity given that it is now assured to be played at a neutral venue.
Celtic not at the races today and never again looked like scoring after Stokes’ early goal.
Congratulations to Aberdeen who fully merited their win.
Belter of a game and I’m off to do an Angus and get royally pished (or should that phrase be reserved for his Lordship?) Crackin’ effort fae the dandies, now lets get you know who in the next round and hammer them.
Stand Free.
This Armageddon lark is really crippling Scottish Football!
Getting a bit misty-eyed with the outbreak of love on here 🙂
Or is it just my pain? 🙁
Neil McCann on Sky tipping Aberdeen to win the Cup. Changed days.
Looks like Neil McCann is already royally pished. Just said on sky sports that “Rangers have premier league class players” 😀 😀 😀
Carntyne says:
February 8, 2014 at 2:49 pm
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Agreed. Congrats to all the Aberdeen fans on here. Your team seemed to want it far more and their efforts were rewarded. Should you be unlucky enough to get the tribute act in the next round you could certainly go into the game with a lot of confidence.
Well done Aberdeen 😀
Angus1983 says:
February 8, 2014 at 1:57 pm
4 5 Rate This
Carntyne says:
February 8, 2014 at 12:06 pm
I’m not sure how many will turn up for Celtic v Aberdeen today.
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Don’t know … are there any Celtic fans inside the stadium at all? Sounds like an Aberdeen home game on the radio.
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Crowd estimated at 30,000, perhaps a few more, of which 3,000 were Aberdeen fans.
My point being, the crowds dwindling in the cup is due to financial constraint.
Years ago this game would have sold out, and Aberdeen would have brought up to 10,000 fans with them.
Celtic were poor today, but that was probably because Aberdeen put them under so much pressure.
sickofitall says:
February 8, 2014 at 2:48 pm
4 0 Rate This
We’ll deserved Aberdeen better team won god I hated typing that …
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Fantastic for Scottish football, bad luck for the Celts. They were surprisingly subdued today. But for the luck of the draw that could well have been the final.
With all of the lower-league teams left there is a big chance that a lower-league team from Glasgow could get a dream draw. Be interesting to see who makes the draw … as we now know from Clyde SSB it only takes three days to rig a game at Ibrox!
Greenock Jack says:
February 8, 2014 at 2:49 pm
6 4 Rate This
It’s a positive that the showpiece game of the Scottish football calander will have more integrity given that it is now assured to be played at a neutral venue.
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Which stadium would you have allocated the Scottish Cup final to Jack?
TSFM says:
February 8, 2014 at 2:53 pm
‘…..Getting a bit misty-eyed with the outbreak of love on here :-)’
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No, it’s quite right and proper to genuinely take the sensible, balanced view that most of us preach!
Having great expectations is all very well. But ,as others have experienced, being hubristic can cost not only a game, but the disgrace and death of a club!
There is no shame in being beaten in a fair and competitively fought football game, even if marginally against expectations.
(Mind you, I would not attribute the description of ‘Competitive’ to Samaras. And, personally, and forgetting for a moment the brief discussion earlier about managerial assaults, I think I’d kick his a.se!)
Sincere congrats to Aberdeen, and I share the view expressed in justbecauseyoureparanoid’s post of 2.50 pm..
Resin_lab_dog says:
February 8, 2014 at 12:28 pm
2 0 Rate This
………
(c) Administration.
Tear up the contracts. Ditch the bloat. Ex-Employees all become creditors. HM gov picks up the tab for statutory redundancy (thankyou ma’hm). ‘Leaned’ down club marches on up the leagues. And everyone’s a winner.
Apart from taxpayers, honest creditors, the clubs that could have competed with them more effectively for promotion if they had actually operated within their means all along, and a load of other people who do not matter.
………
It would be a travesty for the SPFL rules and moral justice if Newco managed to have a quick admin and still gain promotion. Promotion would be a rubber stamp to the megalomanic, morally repugnant cash burning exercise being performed down Govan way. Surely if there is any merit in a points penalty for admin it should be engineered to stop promotion at minimum…
Carntyne says:
February 8, 2014 at 2:59 pm
0 0 Rate This
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Crowd estimated at 30,000, perhaps a few more, of which 3,000 were Aberdeen fans.
My point being, the crowds dwindling in the cup is due to financial constraint.
Years ago this game would have sold out, and Aberdeen would have brought up to 10,000 fans with them.
I posted earlier on this issue, but do you know if Aberdeen were offered any more than 3000 tickets? They only got 1000 for the league game at Parkhead and took twice as many to Firhill. Either Celtic don’t seem to be making enough tickets available to away fans or the visiting clubs are asking for limited numbers. Anbody know which?
I note that Celtic have on the face of it have went into 5 challanging home fixtures this season (including getting through against the Kazaks) and they have been beaten in three of them.
This IMO highlights that playing mostly in the twilight between competitive and relatively non-competitive not only effects crowd interest but restricts player and team development.
The PLC is making money and seems to consider the ‘twilight’ as a comfortable place.
However the support are more ambitious and given recent financial results would like to see heavier speculation on proven experience, at least on a centre-forward.
ST renewals and the next transfer window will be interesting as the balancing act is attemped.
Expect more ST discounts.
Carntyne
Which stadium would you have allocated the League Cup final to Jack?
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Not for me to say, ask the governing bodies and clubs involved in the final.
Wow what a week 😀 😀 😀
Bring on the Sevco 😆 😆
With regards to Aberdeen only taking 3,000. Motherwell away,last weeks semi and Parkhead this week.Theres only so much money available for these things.
sickofitall says: February 8, 2014 at 2:48 pm
You did it so I didn’t have to…. joking aside: fair play Aberdeen, better team on the day. Celtic flat, Aberdeen wanted it more. Again, “armageddon” used to trophies being spread about in Scottish football. Good for the game. 🙄
Congratulations to Aberdeen. The best team won. However,was there any need to be chanting Lennon,Lennon GTF.? Given what had gone on at Tynecastle this was uncalled for.
secularfootballfan says:
February 8, 2014 at 3:10 pm
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It would be a travesty for the SPFL rules and moral justice if Newco managed to have a quick admin and still gain promotion. Promotion would be a rubber stamp to the megalomanic, morally repugnant cash burning exercise being performed down Govan way. Surely if there is any merit in a points penalty for admin it should be engineered to stop promotion at minimum…
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Yet if the rules as laid down are applied to them without fear or favour, that is exactly what would happen.
Conspicuous travesty it may well be, but its not something that we can legitimately complain about with the rules as they are written.
So are we in a situation (again) where a loophole in the system will be gamed by a govan club, before the SFA shut the stable door after the event, thereby preventing anyone else from pulling the same stunt, after the govan club have already benefitted?
Or can you really see a scenario where the adminsitrators of the game grow a pair and do something to head this shambles off at the pass on the basis of ‘moral hazard’?
No… me neither!
Oh.. and remind me again… when is a transfer embargo not a transfer embargo?
Travesty you say!?
That’s one view certainly.
But on the other hand, “One of the finest administrators in the game of football” is an opinion I have also heard expressed.
Greenock Jack says:
February 8, 2014 at 3:17
Carntyne
Which stadium would you have allocated the League Cup final to Jack?
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“Not for me to say, ask the governing bodies and clubs involved in the final.”
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That should have read “Scottish Cup final.” There’s no need to ask the governing bodies, we know which stadium they allocated the final to.
I’m asking you with regard to this comment… “It’s a positive that the showpiece game of the Scottish football calander will have more integrity” given that it is now assured to be played at a neutral venue, which suggests you may have been less than happy with the venue, Parkhead, until Celtic were knocked out.
Hail Hail Aberdeen !
Have to say I’m torn on the merits of the admin fuelled journey back to the top.
Gut feeling is unfair since they have achieved it with players they wouldn’t otherwise have had.
I also don’t buy this nasty Mather contracts line that is being pedalled – mathers was rangers whether they like it or not, just as craigy was for that matter.
But I have always said you shouldn’t rewrite rules halfway through either.
Doesn’t mean to say they should be getting any handouts either of course.
…………….
Smugas says:
February 8, 2014 at 3:44 pm
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I don’t mind you disagreeing and having your own opinion, but I don’t appreciate the disrespect for my opinion.
If this had been another forum I’d have replied in kind, but I’m fed up having posts deleted in reply to insults like yours.
Low crowds because it’s on TV?
Or if that doesn’t work…
Celtic’s complacency?
I’m sure you’re bang on the money. 🙄
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Jagsman says:
February 8, 2014 at 3:12 pm
I posted earlier on this issue, but do you know if Aberdeen were offered any more than 3000 tickets? They only got 1000 for the league game at Parkhead and took twice as many to Firhill. Either Celtic don’t seem to be making enough tickets available to away fans or the visiting clubs are asking for limited numbers. Anbody know which?
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In league games it is pretty much down to the discretion of the host club. In SC games, the away team has to be offered up to (I think) 40% of the seats subject to agreement between the clubs. The rider being that if the away club take up their allocation, they need to guarantee to pay the cost to the host club.
There was a minor squabble, quickly resolved between Celtic and Hearts (SC tie) in the 2000s when Celtic originally offered a couple of thousand but Hearts wanted ad got more.
Pretty sure that is correct with exception of the % of tickets (where I am not so sure)
Jeezo…Hibs knocked out as well.
Well done Raith! Could’t happen to a finer chairman.
hi Carntyne
i was also a little nonplussed by the award of the final to parkhead… given that celtic are the biggest club in scotland, biggest wage budget and are walking away with the league, it wasn’t unreasonable to imagine they’d make the final, thereby being gifted a home game; that didn’t seem fair…
the problem with scottish stadia is that Easter Rd & Pittodrie (around 20k capacity-ish) would make a great final venue for clubs who regularly have sub-10k attendances, but chuck Aberdeen or the Edinburgh sides into the mix and you probably need something ~30k capacity, but not as big as hampden/parkhead/ibrox/murrayfield as long as celtic/sevco aren’t involved, and more neutral – and we don’t have one of those (oh for borough briggs to hold that number for the league cup final)…
Greenock Jack says:
February 8, 2014 at 3:51 pm
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Carntyne
I don’t think they should decide the venue until the finalists (SC) become known.
That goes for the semi-finals as well.
Come back to me when we know the teams involved.
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Erm…you didn’t mention the semi-finals in your original post, only the final.
Had you, I wouldn’t have questioned your opinion.
Greenock Jack says:
February 8, 2014 at 3:51 pm
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Totally agree on that.
rabtdog says:
February 8, 2014 at 4:01 pm
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hi Carntyne
i was also a little nonplussed by the award of the final to parkhead… given that celtic are the biggest club in scotland, biggest wage budget and are walking away with the league, it wasn’t unreasonable to imagine they’d make the final, thereby being gifted a home game; that didn’t seem fair…
the problem with scottish stadia is that Easter Rd & Pittodrie (around 20k capacity-ish) would make a great final venue for clubs who regularly have sub-10k attendances, but chuck Aberdeen or the Edinburgh sides into the mix and you probably need something ~30k capacity, but not as big as hampden/parkhead/ibrox/murrayfield as long as celtic/sevco aren’t involved, and more neutral – and we don’t have one of those (oh for borough briggs to hold that number for the league cup final)…
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A perfectly valid point of view, and one I agree with.
But as you have pointed out in your post we don’t really have a suitable alternative to Hampden which can’t be used this year, apart from Murrayfield which the SFA have stubbornly refused to consider when Hampden has not been available in the past, for instance when Hampden was being rebuilt.
The reason given was that Murrayfield was a Rugby and not a football stadium, and regardless of how silly that stance is, it looks as if they’re sticking to that view. Unless selection of the Cup Final venue was left to the last minute, it was always going to be Ibrox or Parkhead.
Today’s events have made sure there will be a neutral venue but only by luck, not design.
Smugas says: February 8, 2014 at 3:51 pm…
I also don’t buy this nasty Mather contracts line that is being pedalled – mathers was rangers whether they like it or not, just as craigy was for that matter…
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Absolutely Smugas – mentions for Mather or even Stockbridge are squirrels IMO – they both did what was expected of them by those with the power behind Ibrox.
…and congrats to Aberdeen.
If honest, sporting competition results in a wider spread of the available prizes then the supporters – and the future of the sport itself – can only benefit, IMO.
rabtdog says:
February 8, 2014 at 4:01 pm
“(oh for borough briggs to hold that number for the league cup final)”
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Remember when league cup was divided up into groups at start of season many years ago? Why not make the LC final a 2 legged affair? Inverness get a full house at home and Pittodrie gets same in return.
The only draw to be made is who gets to play at home in first leg?
Sorted.
iamacant says:
February 8, 2014 at 4:13 pm
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rabtdog says:
February 8, 2014 at 4:01 pm
“(oh for borough briggs to hold that number for the league cup final)”
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Remember when league cup was divided up into groups at start of season many years ago?
Why not make the LC final a 2 legged affair? Inverness get a full house at home and Pittodrie gets same in return.
The only draw to be made is who gets to play at home in first leg?
Sorted.
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I preferred the old method of having groups, much like the Champion’s League ( without the quality!)
As far as I can remember it was changed because of dwindling crowds.
The more things change…
secularfootballfan says:
February 8, 2014 at 3:10 pm
… Promotion would be a rubber stamp to the megalomanic, morally repugnant cash burning exercise being performed down Govan way…
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Excellent, truly excellent statement.
And well done to Aberdeen and Raith.
Well done to Aberdeen…I thought their positive approach gave them a deserved victory.
Celtic on the other hand…very few positives…
Oh and well done to Raith Rovers…terrific result.
Carntyne
Humble apologies if my tone was misplaced, that wasn’t my intention at all. IMHO this was probably CFCs biggest game of the season and yet, by their standards, a relatively low turn out. That’s not to say that any other chairman in the country wouldn’t bite your hand off for such a gate. My point is purely that it seemed a bit of an admission today that a proportion of the CFC support now live literally for CL.
Carntyne says:
February 8, 2014 at 4:23 pm
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I’ve always thought the league cup should be a merged UK cup competition involving all league clubs in the UK…that might energize bigger crowds…
TSFM says:
February 8, 2014 at 4:00 pm
In league games it is pretty much down to the discretion of the host club. In SC games, the away team has to be offered up to (I think) 40% of the seats subject to agreement between the clubs. The rider being that if the away club take up their allocation, they need to guarantee to pay the cost to the host club.
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Away team has to be offered 20% of the total available.
Well since Armageddon was predicted in 2012 how have things panned out;
League
2012 – Celtic
2013 – Celtic
Scottish Cup Winners
2012 – Hearts
2013 – Celtic
2014 – Any one from eight but not the same winner as last year
League Cup Winners
2012 – Kilmarnock
2013 – St Mirren
2014 – Aberdeen or Inverness Caley
Now where does that leave the doom merchants.
Three different winners of each cup competition.
Before anyone says ‘Well what about the league?’ well competition has to start somewhere. I seem to remember it was the League Cup that launched both Aberdeen and Dundee United into league winners.
Winning trophies attracts players. For years Aberdeen have been in the doldrums but this season has seen them transform into an attractive team with a big travelling support.
If Dundee United can keep the nucleus of their squad together and allow them to develop physically then who knows. There is also Motherwell to throw into the mix.
The powers that be are having ‘Armageddon’ rammed down their throat.
It must be really galling for them that they know their own product so badly.
Purely personal opinion but in a way I’m glad celtic didn’t make it through to the last 8. Reason 1 there won’t be an ‘old firm’ clash and reason 2 sevco won’t get their hoped for ‘pay day’. Apart from the fact that celtic’s performance was pathetic today, again well done Aberdeen a thoroughly deserved win. 😆
I’m sure Campbell will be warming the balls for tomorrow’s draw
Last thing they want is little Sevco going to Pittodrie or Tannadice.
It now seems a bit daft having made the semi final and final venues known already.
As a ‘Well fan. I got to say the result of the day goes to the Albion Rovers shurely. well done and all the best. 🙂
Carntyne,
Still slightly taken aback by your reaction (although on reflection drivel was not my best choice of words) Is your point that the cup games should have been within the ST? Was today some kind of protest at that fact, or as I took your original point a reflection of current economic circumstance. In either case my point stands that today in particular seemed a strange day to choose, and I absolutely stand by my main point, bordering on the complacent.
Smugas says:
February 8, 2014 at 5:42 pm
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Kick off times and live TV do have an affect as well.
Bill1903
Decisions decisions for CO
Albion or Dumbarton. Albion or dumbarton
Wonder if McCoist has any betting tips on which team(s) TRFC will avoid in the next round draw?
Greenock Jack says:
February 8, 2014 at 5:55 pm
No need to carry what you think of your own teams performance into your post.
That goes for the various quarter-final draw, ‘ball warming’ scenarios aswell.
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It’s up to the Mods to chastise/delete/edit/offer advice.
GJ
Brenda can say whatever she feels like saying so long as it is within the spirit of the blog – and thanks to Jean for pointing that out.
As far as ball-warming scenarios are concerned, there are ample reasons, uncontaminated with paranoia, for believing there are irregularities.
A
simplestatistical analysis of the amount of times Celtic and Rangers were paired in the SC before the final (given that they are the pre-eminent teams in that competition) shows a probability somewhere north of wining the lottery three weeks in a row.Of course it could be a coincidence ….
Ah the Rovers, Their Guardian Angel is still smiling. Iron Men from the Iron Burgh
MercDoc says:
February 8, 2014 at 6:06 pm
Ah the Rovers, Their Guardian Angel is still smiling. Iron Men from the Iron Burgh
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Yip, I am very proud of them.
I concur with the Albion Rovers stuff. My brother in law is a huge fan and weekly attender. He took his four year old daughter along today as well 🙂
I remember the Jan 1968 hurricane that ripped the roof off one of the covered enclosures at Cliftonhill. My school’s back entrance was right across the Main Street from the ground and I remember us all going up there to see the damage during the morning break.
Maybe the best day the Rovers have had since then – and good luck to them.
I’ve not read the last day or so but, before I do, just a quick note to congratulate Aberdeen and it’s fans. Armageddon my erchie.