The Blind Men and the Elephant, a cautionary tale

ByTrisidium

The Blind Men and the Elephant, a cautionary tale

A Guest Blog for TSFM by beatipacificiscotia

As a child I read a poem by John Godfrey Saxe, “The Blind Men and the Elephant”, and stumbled upon it again recently.  It is a simple tale of how six blind men encounter an Elephant and attempt to describe the animal:

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a WALL!”

You get the idea.  The other blind men did little better.  The second grabbed the tusk and thought the elephant like a spear.  Others thought the elephant like a snake (the trunk), a tree (the leg), a fan (the ear), and finally a rope (the tail).  What does this have to do with this blog?  Let me explain.

There is a danger of all of us, whether consciously or unconsciously, making the same mistake as these blind gentleman.  It is too easy to use the parts of the argument that fit our values and belief system, at the expense of the whole truth.  The 13th century Jaina scholar, Mallisena, described a much earlier version of the same tale as a parable to argue that people deny various aspects of truth; deluded by the aspects they do understand, they deny the aspects they don’t understand.  He said:

“Due to extreme delusion produced on account of a partial viewpoint, the immature deny one aspect and try to establish another. This is the maxim of the blind (men) and the elephant.”

I am incapable of putting it any better than that, though I would go further.  I argue that people are deluded by the aspects that they choose to understand, and deny the aspects that they refuse to understand.  Which leads me to my tale …..

I have recently read a news report about a decision taken by the Advertising Standards Authority on advertising activities of The Rangers Football Club Ltd and their claims to history and honours.  It includes the following quote referring to advice from the SFA:

“We also consulted with the SFA, which confirmed that its definition of a football ‘club’ varied depending on context, and could sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner.”

I was most unhappy to read this part of the statement.  I am yet to see the definition or statement of when you could “sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner”.  This is a contradiction to the definition of a football club given by FIFA; a definition which is handed down to the Confederations, and from Confederations to Associations. 

You may or may not be aware, the application of good governance in football is administered through club licensing.  This annual process ensures that minimum standards are maintained, to promote growth and development, and ultimately protects all of football – every club, every player and staff member, the integrity of every competition, suppliers of goods and services, the reputation of sponsors, and most of all the fans.  FIFA Club Licensing Regulations state that a license applicant must be a football club, defined as:

“Legal entity fully and solely responsible for the football team participating in national and international club competitions that applies for a licence.”

This is a clear and unambiguous definition, which is being ignored by the SFA.  Why is this issue so important?  Simply, a football club must be held responsible for its commercial activities.  For example, an over-ambitious and over-spending Rangers changed the Scottish football landscape forever.  Other clubs tried to compete in an unsustainable “Cold War”-like football arms race.  I believe Scottish football was damaged.  Many clubs have been taken to the brink of death.  This could happen in any country, in any league, anywhere in the world.  For that reason, a football club and its corporate body must be one and the same, living or dying, inseparably intertwined.  The separation of club and company is a myth, a myth dangerous to good governance.  Rangers (1872-2012) should be a cautionary tale told to every club owner.

There are many benefits to club licensing.  These including minimum standards for stadia and infrastructure, youth development programs, and much more.  I would heartily recommend that you read the FIFA document if you have the time. It gave birth to the word and spirit of Financial Fair Play.  Look at some of the financial benefits detailed:

 

10.3  Benefits

Implementation of the financial criteria will help deliver both short and long-term improvements for clubs, the licensors and the football family in general.  For the football family in general, the financial criteria should help to:

• safeguard the continuity and integrity of competitions;

• increase the transparency and credibility of clubs’ financial operations;

• improve confidence in the probity of the football industry;

• create a more attractive market for the game’s commercial partners and investors; and

• provide the basis for fair competition, because competition is not just about the teams on the pitch.

 

For the licensors, the financial criteria should help to:

• improve their understanding of the financial position and prospects of their member clubs;

• encourage clubs to settle liabilities to creditors on a timely basis;

• enhance transparency in the money flow of clubs;

• enhance their ability to be proactive in assisting clubs with financial issues; and

• provide a starting point for club benchmarking at a national level for those licensors and clubs who want to develop this aspect.

 

For the clubs, the financial criteria should help to:

• improve the standards and quality of financial management and planning activities;

• enable better management decision-making;

• enhance clubs’ financial and business credibility with stakeholders;

• improve financial stability; and

• enhance revenue-generating ability and cost management.

 

Important words, and I trust the value and opportunity these regulations offer are now clear.  Note bullet points 3 and 4, and that our top league currently does not have a sponsor.  The SFA must ensure the integrity of competitions, discourage financial recklessness, and protect football for everyone.  This is only possible with a clear, unambiguous statement that confirms club / company are one and the same thing.

To suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation is to undermine the definition of what is a football club, one of the cornerstones of FIFA Club Licensing Regulations.  For the SFA to suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation, or allow this belief to go unchallenged, is a shameful dereliction of duty.  It puts all of football in danger.  We cannot allow this.  There is too much at stake.

The poem ends thus:
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

The blind men were each partially right, though in their vanity / stubbornness / ignorance they failed to find the truth.  There is a lesson for us all in this story.  This may appear to be an attempt to renew the old club / new club debate.  It is not.  To see this as an opportunity to score points against Rangers fans is to completely miss the point – you have failed to find the truth.

This is global issue affecting one of the fundamentals of good governance.  Good governance must be the beating heart of our game – ensuring good health and long life.  I am looking at the here and now, and ahead into the future. 

We must protect and promote ALL of the FIFA Club Licensing Regulations.  To deny any part is to refuse to see the whole elephant, like the foolish blind men.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

1,867 Comments so far

tobyPosted on12:35 pm - Feb 1, 2014


upthehoops says:
February 1, 2014 at 12:24 pm
0 0 Rate This

toby says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:44 am
============================
On the assumption Wallace is serious about a five year plan, is it a ‘fight’ he can win? Will he need to find a way to get rid of the agitator in chief that has the compliant ear of so many journalists. The bottom line is his team manager is clearly not of the view that the club should ever have to live within its means. He can’t tell anyone where the money should come from but he just believes it should be there. Short of state aid, which seems to be rather pathetic hobby horse of theirs at the moment, where is the money going to come from, and why does no journalist have the spine to challenge him on that?

———

The statement re. 5 years is to buy time, even in the immediate context, whether Wallace believes its possible to turn the ship around or not.There are so many obstacles for him to overcome, and the halfhearted attempt to deal with salaries gives a strong indication that he has completely misjudged what he’s walked into – or like so many others before him, lininng the pockets before the iceberg hits. In my opinion its the former, but either way, its not good for the bears.

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on12:48 pm - Feb 1, 2014


theoldshed says:
February 1, 2014 at 10:45 am

11

1

Rate This

_______________________________________

Google analytics gives a good definition of page visit counts.
I would imagine that unique page views and vistors are the 2 metrics that are important and upon which TSFM would be able to assess his own visitor numbers and have a good assessment of the real picture and its underlying significance..

https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1257084?hl=en-GB

But ….without wishing to be impertinent to you in any way… I suspect your maths is slightly skew in terms of drawing such a conclusion.
If you visit twice a day for a year you will produce 700 page views. If everyone here has the same pattern, 1000000 page views would only equate to a couple of thousand followers.

But firstly – having such a solid loyal following who regularly return is ‘ gold’ in terms of reach and would increase the ‘value’ of the domain e.g. to potential advertisers etc. It shows a ‘quality’ of output and a solid demographic to be reached.

But secondly, Not everfyone will have the same visiting patterns.

Pareto analysis is a good starting ball park estimate for the likely visitor profile in the absence of solid information. The ‘Pareto’ is a probability distribution that is often expressed in laymans terms as the ’80:20′ rule. In otherwords, 80% of page views are generated by 20% of visitors. Conversely 20% of page views are generated by 80% of visitors.
It follows (loosely) that for every 1 visitor generating about 700 hundred page views like yourself, there are probably 700 visitors generating generating a single page view each.

In this context your assessment would underestimate the blogs reach and readership.

Similarly with the TU/TD stats.
3% is not unreasonable.
Not everyone reads every post (I know I don’t)
I probably TU or TD on 10% if that!.
Some people don’t bother with TU/TD
Others read a post, don’t follow or understand it, or take a middle view and neither TU nor TD.

I think 3% for TU/TD maximum is not a ridiculous estimate in that regard.

Because the Highest TU/TD number therefore probably still represents a lowish percentage of the solid core of regular follows, 20% of the 20% if you use pareto.
A number which come to 4% if my maths is any cop!

So lets say we have hardcore who regularly post, which is 20% of a softcore readership which regularly use TU/TD, which is 20% of a regular readership which visit frequently but don’t interact, which is 20% of a total readership that visit the site uniquely or infrequently.

All armwaving, but you get the gist I hope.

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Lord WobblyPosted on1:20 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Meanwhile, McCoist provides further evidence that he just doesn’t get it:

McCoist knows there will be people outside the club who will wonder how Rangers could afford to turn down a six-figure fee for Wallace.
But he said: “People might think we’re crazy but it would’ve cost £2million to replace a player like Lee.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-boss-ally-mccoist-praises-3100354?mobile=false

But the Gers gaffer is hopeful that he will be in a position to bring in new faces before the move up to the full-time Championship next season.
He said: “Graham is re-assessing the situation all the time. It has been said there might be the possibility of bringing players in this summer. We’ll probably re-assess that nearer the time. The whole picture is not completely bleak.’

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/rangers-boss-has-summer-signings-wishlist-150497n.23323294

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Paulmac2Posted on1:22 pm - Feb 1, 2014


selfassessor says:
February 1, 2014 at 10:03 am

Rangers manager Ally McCoist has praised Lee Wallace’s loyalty after the defender stayed on at Ibrox following January transfer interest from Nottingham Forest.
Full story: Daily Record

What unashamed spin. Seem to recall the tribute act did not obtain a serious enough bid!
…………………………………………………..
Ally…doesn’t really think before he speaks…

” Ally McCoist has praised Lee Wallace’s loyalty after the defender stayed”…

So I guess the Forrest bid was accepted by the CEO then Ally…otherwise how could the player decide to stay?….strange the papers claimed the CEO turned it doon!….spin spin and spin again…

The only alleged offer made from a club with a manager who is an ex-player of the liquidated club….one might start to think this was all choreographed for the new Rory Bremner tribute act.

Could we be looking at another bid from another planet from another galaxy?….

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ecobhoyPosted on1:23 pm - Feb 1, 2014


john clarke says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:29 am

Reply from FCA
“Dear Mr Clarke

‘Thank you for your email asking what rules allow Rangers International Football Club to exclude the rate of remuneration of an employee’s details in the prospectus issued for their IPO.

In response, I am sorry to inform you that it is not clear what sort of firm this is and in what circumstances they are regulated. I have searched the relevant Registers and cannot find a firm with the above name listed . . . ‘.
====================================================
Who does this guy think he is? If he claims he doesn’t know the most successful inter-galactic football team ever then he must be a Rangers Hater! Get his name on the list 😆

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CastofthousandsPosted on1:34 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Resin_lab_dog says:
February 1, 2014 at 12:48 pm

“Similarly with the TU/TD stats. 3% is not unreasonable.”
—————————–
I probably TU about one in twenty posts. Comments are of a high quality and they have to be remarkable to illicit at TU (very occasionally a TD) from me. TSFM has an analytics package, which currently appears to be creating a drag on the refresh time, so this information could be boiled down for any potential advertiser.

Talking of which TSFM, did you unintentionally do a bit of product placement for Malawarebytes above. I was recommended this by an IT friend. Seems that such an organisation might have a synergy (you gotta know the marketing speak), with sites like this that might be prone to unwanted interference. Such a big organisation would not be affected by the local politics of the West of Scotland.

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TSFMPosted on1:40 pm - Feb 1, 2014


theoldshed says:

February 1, 2014 at 10:45 am

Slightly off topic I am not sure if “hits” on the site is an accurate way of measuring readership. I usually view it twice a day meaning somewhere in the region of 700 times a year. if that pattern was repeated in a roughly similar way by others it would only take 1500 or so followers to produce 1,000,000 views a year.

We get 1,000,000 page views every 4-5 weeks. We don’t measure “hits”, but daily visits to the site from unique users.

I’ve noticed that the most anyone gets in terms of thumbs up these days is about 300 maximum for the most popular comment. Some have suggested the site gets 10,000 regular readers,but it would surprise me if there were 10,000 regular readers and only 3% or so used the TU/TD facility.

Not just suggesting, but stating 10,000 as a fact. From the measurement I have used above, it IS 10,000 regular readers. Having said that, we have only a tenth of that in terms of registered users.

To be honest, I would be in despair if a significant proportion of readers were using the TDs and TUs. A bit of fun for those inclined in that way but hugely irrelevant in terms of gauging opinion.

I think a way must be found of reaching out to a wider audience. How about a free booklet of all the main blog posts in a shiny cover with the TSFM badge on it, and a message at the front explaining what the blog is all about, emphasising of course that it represents the followers of all Scottish clubs. A copy could be sent to supporters clubs, distributed in selected pubs near stadia on match days (careful thought needed here to avoid the distributor ending up being metaphorically “thrown down a marble staircase”), and sent to distributors of fanzines. I think that might result in quite a few more regular readers, and we could then have a “tipping point” (as economists would call it) when the blog went mainstream. It would surely be worth a try.

I’m not sure what the cost of such a booklet might be, or what the number of copies in the first run would need to be in order to give it a chance of success, but I would be willing to contribute towards production costs of such a booklet.

Interesting idea about the booklet, and it would be good to hear the views of others (on the Funding Page). My first thought is that the cost would pretty high. Not just printing but design, authorship and editing are all very labour intensive and time-consuming. Also the nature of opinion on the “fair play” movement is a bit diverse with some competing interests. I think the production of such a booklet might be seen as an aggressive move towards a monopoly of that movement. That would turn up the already very considerable hot air flow of criticism for TSFM.

Not a competition I think we should be involved in. We have a loose coalition of courteous, respectful and knowledgeable people here at TSFM – with comparatively little partisanship. That is for me far more valuable than a rush to expand.

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ecobhoyPosted on2:14 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Squiggle says:
January 31, 2014 at 9:58 pm

Echobhoy.
‘State Aid’. The information you brought forward on the land in Dalmarnock was excellent. There are so many more aspects to appraisal and redevelopment of inner city land though, many of which turn their course a number of times before the city council ever get a look-in. Parkhead and Dalmarnock must be amongst the most surveyed and sampled and reported upon parts of Europe imaginable. I am one that FTH would learn a lot from – they should save themselves some bother and leave it at what you have already uncovered. That said, many of the detailed decisions on the Parkhead area do leave grey areas on remediation which are not ideal – for the new landowners!

And to the sages, its great that we appreciate our built environment and heritage, it’d be better still if we all understood the cost to fix the excess of industry – particularly in the east end of Glasgow.

Re Auchenhowie v Lennoxtown.- They both went across my desk. Lennoxtown was a very, very strange development. Every objection imaginable was received from unimaginable sources – Celtic buckled down and worked through them and everyone got a piece of pie. Murray Park ‘sailed’. However the funding was more complicated than suggested, Someone back on RTC once got close with mention of SFA funding for access that (-)SDM subsequently restricted to the hours after midnight, The SFA facility at Toryglen was commissioned soon after on a site that, was so heavily compromised 2 Auchenhowies could have been built for the remediation costs.
================================================
Interesting read! When you look at the planning committee reports on Auchenhowie and Lennoxtown – Auchemhowie was a few pages and Lennoxtown went on for ever and I don’t mean in terms of the Master Plan but specifically the training site. Of course I’m not paranoid 😉

However fth have finally lost the plot with their latest post yesterday on Lennoxtown. They started off with the State Aid allegations that Celtic would be forced to pay back £30 million or some such figure and titles being stripped. They claimed the training site was zoned for housebuilding and therefore should have had an enormously higher value. And they denied that it was Greenbelt. They now admit it is greenbelt which effectively destroys the State Aid case.

So what is their latest earth-shattering revelation – complaints from residents about road access problems. Celtic do have responsibilities in that regard but they have been stymied by factors outwith their control regarding the vehicular access mainly arising from the collapse of the housing market and the mothballing of the later stages which has meant the road-building contained in the Master plan which Celtic was to connect with – as I understand it – didn’t go ahead.

And yet again the smearing and intimidation by naming an East Dunbartonshire Council who excused himself from voting because he declared a non-pecuniary interest. That suddenly becomes suspicious – perhaps his name is regarded by the Blue Camp as one of those funny ones.

But the level of obsession displayed over a planning condition re an access road is simply staggering even if there were no problems at Ibrox.

As to objections at Lennoxtown – I was quite amused by some of them from national bodies and the concern for the bats which were probably non-existant was quite touching 😆

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scottcPosted on2:26 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Lord Wobbly says:
February 1, 2014 at 1:20 pm

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/rangers-boss-has-summer-signings-wishlist-150497n.23323294

A couple of quotes from the above piece show up once more the use of language

First re Graham Wallace and his meeting with fans groups

Wallace told representatives of the three main Rangers supporters’ organisations, the Assembly, the Association and the Trust, that he wants to put a five-year plan in place.

Note future tense, he wants to put in place a five year plan; i.e. There is NO plan at this time

followed by Ally McCoist’s response

He said: “I would agree with Graham. He has been honest with everybody and if he said a five-year plan has been put in operation then I think we should respect that.”

Note that Ally is now usingthe past tense, “a five year plan has been put in operation”. No, it’s not. Right at this moment there is no plan; at best one is being developed but nothing has been implemented yet.

The very specific (and, I think, deliberate) use of language during this story has fascinated me and much can be gleaned from paying attention to the things that are actually said. Another example of that would be Ally’s mythical 50% salary reduction. It never happened. The reduction was, to quote Ally, nearer 50% than 15%.

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ianagainPosted on2:28 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Full house at Tynecastle: mair Armmagedon 😆

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BartinMainPosted on2:44 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Interesting post from KDS’s lubolubo, cut & pasted below:

“You have to remember there are two companies. RIFC (which had the ipo) and TRFC (the clumpany). RIFC raised the IPO dosh, TRFC spent it. TRFC will owe RIFC for the IPO money it has spent. It would be clearer if TRFC published accounts but they dont have to do so until May. RIFC will claim the money spent as debt, relieve TRFC of it’s property assets and become a very profitable property leasing company with one client signed up to a long term onerous lease including paying for upkeep after it sells TRFC (probably for a pound) to ra bares next saviour.”

Thoughts?

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ianagainPosted on2:56 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Lads and Lassies.
We need to go from Red to Amber pronto.

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jean7brodiePosted on3:06 pm - Feb 1, 2014


ianagain says:
February 1, 2014 at 2:56 pm

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Danish PastryPosted on3:08 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Not such a quiet Saturday after all:

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/sevco-in-february/#more-4348

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ianagainPosted on3:13 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Jean see funding top o page

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Danish PastryPosted on3:15 pm - Feb 1, 2014


BartinMain on February 1, 2014 at 2:44 pm
4 0 Rate This
———-

Those thoughts have been swirling around for quite a while Bartin. And the way money has been spent it almost seems the scenario can’t come soon enough. If the cash runs out this month, as Phil states it might, it looks like the ‘spiritual home’ may well be a goner …

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manandboyPosted on3:17 pm - Feb 1, 2014


SUPERBOWL PREVIEW

Strictly left field, and somewhat OT

But for an excellent read,

and A Scottish slant on Sunday night’s Superbowl, try

http://zeronefourone.wordpress.com/2014/01/31/super-bowl-xlviii-part-1-to-be-the-best/

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ianagainPosted on3:22 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Danish Pastry says:

February 1, 2014 at 3:08 pm

Not such a quiet Saturday after all:
—————————————————–
That man again.
As I said a few days back was always going to resurface.
Imran too.
Its wolf pack time nothing much left but their going to have what little IS left.

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Tif FinnPosted on3:23 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Thanks for that Phil.

Things going pretty much as predicted then.

Do you feel the next phase will also be pretty much as predicted, with assets being moved about and an attempt to separate the loss making footballing arm from the property company.

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tykebhoyPosted on3:32 pm - Feb 1, 2014


For those thinking sale and leaseback is there any significance in the recent investments by property management companies. Damille Investments may have bailed half their investment within the week and may have bailed completely now but River and Mercantile Asset Management LLP still have a 3%+ stake

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BrendaPosted on3:39 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Nice to hear from you Phil, and come on now folks get donating!!!! 😛 we need to keep this thing going it’s the only place you can trust what’s being written 😐

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ianagainPosted on3:44 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Here’s some awful spelling and worse prose from RR- Bears doing irony.

Note only the last commentator gets it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
01 Feb 2014 07:30:39
Well Gers fans, everybody must be happy now surely. Ally played a blinder in the transfer window, he held on to our biggest assets, and let’s not kid ourselves, he must have been under a bit of pressure, and he didn’t bring any players in. Win/Win so let’s get behind the team AND the manager today and hopefully we will bulldoze Brechin and win “with style”

Jyf

1.) 01 Feb 2014 09:28:23
It must be great being able to completely divorce your mind from the financial reality of the club OP. Yeah everythings hunky dory now, all thanks to Ally’s shrewdness in the transfer market. Phew! For a few years there I thought we had money problems, glad that’s over then. That 15% pay cut request must’ve just been a weird blip, let’s foget all about it, we’ll probably never hear anything more on that front. Worries over. Same squad, same wage bill – no problem. We can now sit back and enjoy bulldozing plumbers. What a relief!

Paulineblue72

2.) You jest of course, only reason he didn’t go was no one would pay the money. Either we have got enough money to get us through to end of season or W allace like the rest before is playing the wait and see game. No playrrs have went no wages dropped same old so half way on his 120 days and ee still losing the same m8ney. strange cost cutting.

ALLY

3.) @1 and @2 Wasn’t expecting that. So what are we saying then? That we should have sold Wallace and Law and terminated a few contracts –What?
If Wallace had left that would have shown us that we will not be back at the top any time soon so I trust our CEO that we will be competing next season. Si at lest I will be at Ibrox watching us bulldozing Brechin with style, enjoy your half empty glass lads and lassies.

Jyf
01 Feb 2014 01:44:24
why is most fans and every fans group and now mccoist endorsing this 5 year plan do u seriously think this board will all agree on the way forward and be around long anuf to see the plan out I don’t think so sum how promised everything under I sun recently and none deliverd untiil the fans open there eyes and realise they hold all the cards then nothing will change wake up and stop falling for I empty promises most teams fans would been marching in there thousands if this happend to there club no us though bout time we done sumthing been going on far to long

craigs8688

by Mgid

31 Jan 2014 21:19:20
Hold the back pages Slly has once again backed a CEO at rangers, who saw that coming.

TH

1.) 01 Feb 2014 00:14:11
He backs whoever is paying him as usual

pistolpete

2.) I don’t believe 1 person inside ibrox anymore and after the last 2 years who can blame me?

sweep1

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upthehoopsPosted on3:44 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
February 1, 2014 at 3:08 pm
3 0 Rate This

Not such a quiet Saturday after all:

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/sevco-in-february/#more-4348
================================================
The essence of what Phil is saying, including his parting shot at the media, only makes this situation all the more ridiculous. Only two weeks ago the players were being asked to take a 15% cut, and they have sold no-one in the transfer window. Yet the media are full of feelgood stories about the ‘loyalty’ of Lee Wallace, and big Sandy waiting at the top of the stairs for Craig Whyte. I understand from another forum Radio Clyde are saying today Lee Wallace would have been a ‘sensation’ in the Championship. If that is the case, you’d think they’d ask why no-one paid the relatively small fee of £1.4M for him then.

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FIFAPosted on3:51 pm - Feb 1, 2014


If Phil is on the money ,as per,we will now see the icebergs comming after the stricken vessel,and when that happens its time to man the lifeboats,I imagine Wallace has noticed that there is only one lifeboat left and tried to launch that earlier this week and was interupted but he will man this eventualy ,when no one is looking,he knows Davy Jones has called the vessel in and the final chapter has now been explained to Wallace,he will have his instructions to scupper the ship and its all about the timing and valentines day seems about right,again.Love is in the air.

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Danish PastryPosted on4:04 pm - Feb 1, 2014


upthehoops says:
February 1, 2014 at 3:44 pm
1 0 Rate This

… Yet the media are full of feelgood stories about the ‘loyalty’ of Lee Wallace, and big Sandy waiting at the top of the stairs for Craig Whyte …
———

Either their sources aren’t that good or they do not want to be the bringer of bad tidings. I tend to think the former.

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AllyjamboPosted on4:14 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Message to Phil,
Oh I do hope so 😀

February can be such a boring month, with miserable weather and not much to look forward to. Except Valentine’s Day, and all the joy that can bring, every second year 😈 I mean, all that jelly and ice cream. (Never really understood that one 🙄 but as it’s mentioned every time TRFC are in trouble… 😀 )

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Danish PastryPosted on4:24 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Allyjambo says:
February 1, 2014 at 4:14 pm
1 0 Rate This

… I mean, all that jelly and ice cream. (Never really understood that one but as it’s mentioned every time TRFC are in trouble… )
———-

Big treat for kids at a birthday party when I was young … I’ve always thought it was synonymous with celebration. Whit did ye get in Edinburgh? 😀

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AllyjamboPosted on4:33 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Danish Pastry says:

February 1, 2014 at 4:24 pm
Allyjambo says:
February 1, 2014 at 4:14 pm
1 0 Rate This

… I mean, all that jelly and ice cream. (Never really understood that one but as it’s mentioned every time TRFC are in trouble… )
———-

Big treat for kids at a birthday party when I was young … I’ve always thought it was synonymous with celebration. Whit did ye get in Edinburgh? 😀
_________________________________

Lager 😳

The reference to jelly and ice cream seems to be solely made by Celtic supporters, so I thought it had some meaning relating to their, ahem, rivalry with Rangers (NIL) and was something that had a sense of revenge about it 😈

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John ClarkPosted on4:51 pm - Feb 1, 2014


scottc says:
February 1, 2014 at 12:15 pm
‘…but I don’t think the FCA has anythng to do with RIFC, which would be why they claim to have no record. They deal with the Financial Services industry.’
———–
Thanks, scottc.
I fiddled about trying to find which body, if any, might be the body that had oversight of AIM and/or the Stock Market generally.
I got fed up in the end trying to make sense of the changes made with effect from last year, in the hope that whoever I wrote to would pass me on to any more appropriate person or agency.
I’ll wait and see what happens, and have another go if need be.

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John ClarkPosted on4:56 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Tif Finn says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:45 am
Thanks, Tif Finn.
I somehow seem not to have the knack of using the FoI route, in spite of helpful advice offered to me by fellow posters!
At least, a previous attempt to do so ( on another topic) produced a big duck egg, and left me feeling i had been completely outsmarted and inadequate! 😀

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ecobhoyPosted on5:01 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
February 1, 2014 at 3:08 pm

Not such a quiet Saturday after all:

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/sevco-in-february/#more-4348
================================================
Phil has courageously put his money where his mouth is without a hint of fudging – and if I was a Bear I would be telling football tax havens to abandon those exotic onshore havens Celtic have at Lennoxtown and Westthorn and find out what sink hole the Rangers money has disappeared into and what mystery men have made off with it to an offshore tax haven.

And if I was a SMSM editor I would right now be pulling my Sports and News Editors into my office and telling them that if Phil has got it right and if they can’t stand-up the story then don’t come back and your P45s will be in the post.

Unless of course the Editors already know and don’t care about telling the truth to their readers because they are in cahoots with the SFA in pulling every rabbit oootra hat to save their favourite club and, of course, they are only doing it to save scottish fitbaw – ma ersium 😆

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John ClarkPosted on5:11 pm - Feb 1, 2014


ecobhoy says:
February 1, 2014 at 1:23 pm
‘…..Get his name on the list ..’
————-
Following the sage advice I recently received from a certain quarter, ecobhoy, I left her ( and it was a ‘her’) name off her reply! 😉

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ecobhoyPosted on5:12 pm - Feb 1, 2014


john clarke says:
February 1, 2014 at 4:56 pm
Tif Finn says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:45 am

Thanks, Tif Finn.
I somehow seem not to have the knack of using the FoI route, in spite of helpful advice offered to me by fellow posters!
At least, a previous attempt to do so ( on another topic) produced a big duck egg, and left me feeling i had been completely outsmarted and inadequate!
=====================================================
My take on FoIs is that you seldom catch anything on a pure fishing exercise except a cold. You actually have to know what the scam is or whatever has gone down.

You must have had a good tip-off or just stumbled across something and done your research to find out exactly what is going one. When you find out you can then frame your FoI to actually confirm what you already know and then do the story.

If you’re just casting about for the story then the people handling the request just swat you off like an annoying fruit fly that doesn’t actually have a sting.

And the best way to get up to speed is read through FoI requests and more importantly the answers to them and you will start to see all the tricks that are used. These people are trained to stop you getting at the truth so it has to be softee softee catchee money ❗

It works for me – oh and another thing you really have to get the terminology spot-on as that’s another favourite way of body swerving an answer.

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fergusslayedthebluesPosted on5:15 pm - Feb 1, 2014


So the transfer window has come and gone and Mr Wallace and his team of CAs ,who are there to oversee a rumored £1m per month loss ,are as happy as the bears
Bearing in mind that with the closing of the window they have lost all chances of bringing money in from an already (massively overpaid football squad ) ,who are already so far in front in their division that promotion is almost a certainty .
Now why would these CAs to a man miss a chance like that ? ,could it be
1. Admin was the plan all the time and the buying of players (if admin happens) they could not afford was pre arranged and the whole season was a sham to accrue enough points to rend any points deduction meaningless .
2.Mr Wallace and his CAs are not there for the long term and realized that if they let any players go or are seen to cut any costs then the bears will get a sniff that the onward march to the CL is not a reality and may just hold back with the ST cash .
Who knows but IMO anyone coming into the sevco business to sort it out would NEVER have let that transfer window close without moving players on ,pure and simple .
What their actual intention is ,I do not know but lately is does not look to me like it’s attempting to put sevco 2102 on a sound financial footing

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ecobhoyPosted on5:21 pm - Feb 1, 2014


john clarke says:
February 1, 2014 at 5:11 pm
ecobhoy says:
February 1, 2014 at 1:23 pm
‘…..Get his name on the list ..’
————-
Following the sage advice I recently received from a certain quarter, ecobhoy, I left her ( and it was a ‘her’) name off her reply!
=================================================
My attitude has always been that I don’t identify a public servant who is just doing their job unless they are corrupt and as well as exposing it I would automatically inform the police.

But, other than that kind of circumstance, I don’t think it does any harm when you have to go back to them and it may actually help get you a bit more info.

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Palacio67Posted on5:25 pm - Feb 1, 2014


http://www.liveedinburghnews.org/2014/02/01/neil-lennon-forced-to-leave-tynecastle-after-being-hit-by-missiles/

Not good news, I though all that stuff was in the past.

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Hoopy 7Posted on5:26 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Good Afternoon
Just catching up and read Phil’s blog.
I agree that TRFC in admin or liquidation is a certainty and do not doubt his sources.
Where I do disagree is that CW may have a claim on the assets if he can prove that CG conned him but a lot will depend on the paperwork which I have not seen. Just a gut feeling but whatever else he is CW is not a fool and he will no doubt have tapes which just might get him the pay off he seeks.
I also think/hope that he has a tape which compromises Regan, Doncaster and Oqilvie which would facilitate the must needed clear out which is needed for the benefit of Scottish football.

We have in one form or another been at this for two years now and the stench of corruption has not become any better.

On the subject of Lee Wallace’s loyalty to the bears I doubt it very much. The players will have seen this movie before and if they sit tight they will all be free agents soon and may do better. Although again I doubt whether the salaries on offer at Debtco would be available elsewhere.

The bears need to wake up ans smell the coffe. If they pay for season tickets early, money which is meant to run the team for NEXT year, then it will be siphoned off by the spives this year and there will be no next year.

The only people who need “A Rangers” in Scottish football are the bears, the rest of us do not and if ticket sales at Aberdeen and Dundee United are a measure of armageddon long may it continue.

Scottish football is in good health it is the governance of Scottish football which is in ruins.

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Tif FinnPosted on5:27 pm - Feb 1, 2014


A wee reminder of some of the Sevco 5088 stuf, re Whyte, Green, money and audio recordings.

Might be getting topical again.

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/220791-charles-green-agreed-to-receive-25000-from-craig-whytes-associate/

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Tif FinnPosted on5:31 pm - Feb 1, 2014


I am absolutely stunned and disgusted IF the story Palacio posted the link to has any truth to it at all.

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ianagainPosted on5:32 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Palacio67 says:

February 1, 2014 at 5:25 pm

http://www.liveedinburghnews.org/2014/02/01/neil-lennon-forced-to-leave-tynecastle-after-being-hit-by-missiles/

Not good news, I though all that stuff was in the past.
————————————————————————————-

Disgraceful. Jail the scum.

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Palacio67Posted on5:39 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Tif Finn says:
February 1, 2014 at 5:31 pm
0 0 Rate This

I am absolutely stunned and disgusted IF the story Palacio posted the link to has any truth to it at all.
———————————————–
I think the first mention of it came from this afternoons Sportsound, can someone who tuned in confirm?
A wee don contributed to the TSFM funds, keep up the good work.

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andygraham.66Posted on6:10 pm - Feb 1, 2014


In other off field news, twitter reporting the Brechin supporters bus was attacked after the game

@BrechinCFC 27m
Mindless thugs brick the Brechin City Supporters Bus, disgusting!

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easyJamboPosted on6:17 pm - Feb 1, 2014


NL at Tynecastle today

Edit: Apologies – Cant get Link to work

Edit : Try again

http://i.imgur.com/ozG7YDH.jpg

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rabtdogPosted on6:18 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Aberdeen 4 St Johnstone 0 …
Virtually a full house at Tynecastle, good goals by Hayes, Pawlett & Rooney…
Dandies in their first cup final since 2000…
Makes a nice change from talking about Sevco…

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ekt1mPosted on6:23 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Tif Finn @ 5.27pm. I wonder what became of the Biggart Baillie LLP (Sevco lawyers) complaint to Strathclyde’s finest on CW and AE last year. I’ve heard nothing but silence.

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redetinPosted on6:26 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Palacio67 says:
February 1, 2014 at 5:39 pm

Tif Finn says:
February 1, 2014 at 5:31 pm
I am absolutely stunned and disgusted IF the story Palacio posted the link to has any truth to it at all.
———————————————–
I think the first mention of it came from this afternoons Sportsound, can someone who tuned in confirm?

_______________________________________

Confirmed, but the report came from an excited Chick Young who quoted NL’s agent.
Presumably, there were security and witnesses on the scene who can describe what happened. No excuses, ever, for such behaviour.

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John ClarkPosted on6:37 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Well, I reckon Spiers has lost any remaining shred of credibility he may still have had as any kind of objective commentator.(Sportsound tonight)
To assert that the fact that Neil Lennon is prepared to stand up for himself is the reason why, eg, coins and spit get hurled at him while he is a spectator at a neutral ground watching a semi-final seems to be the weirdest of logic!

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on6:43 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Palacio67 says:
February 1, 2014 at 5:25 pm

2

0

Rate This

http://www.liveedinburghnews.org/2014/02/01/neil-lennon-forced-to-leave-tynecastle-after-being-hit-by-missiles/

Not good news, I though all that stuff was in the past.

________________________________________

Hmmm… Wondering what Vincent Lunny will be charging Lennon with this time?
That’s how these things work at the SFA compliance unit isn’t it???

I am not Celtic fan. But have a great deal of sympathy for Lennon. Alot of people :slamb: say he is his own worst enemy. But this is unfair. Whilst he sometimes doesn’t help himself, he is no more than half way down a very long queue of bitter and sick individuals who are hell bent on damaging him and who need to take a good hard look at themselves.

On one occasion in the North stand at ICT I came across the one and only instance of utterly distasteful behavior I have witnessed at the Tulloch.

I was there with my son at Celtic match. There was no score. There were chants.

2 rows behind me, a boy who can’t have been more that 10 years of age broke out into a rendition of a song to the tune of ‘One man went to mow’… but the words he was singing were ‘One man went to kill, went to kill Neil Lennon.’ The emphatic alto carried well and far above the dull susurrus of the crowd, and – but for the words – had an angelic and cherubic tone to it.

After about a minute of not believing what I was hearing, let alone from a minor, and the incongruity of where I was hearing it (Caley), I turned round and politely confronted the little fecker, and told him (and his father) that death threats were not funny, that I hope he didn’t understand what he was singing, and that I certainly did not want to hear it!

I am pleased to report that he was silenced for a while, and when he started up his singing again sometime later, it was to ‘Inverness are wonderful’ and other similar uplifting ditties.

I have to say the whole episode ruined my enjoyment of an otherwise great game.

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fergusslayedthebluesPosted on6:54 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Hoopy 7 says:
February 1, 2014 at 5:26 pm
funny you saying that about CW and his Dictaphone .
Takes me back to the JAB signing by Minty ,if my memory serves me right his agent stated on radio that he had touted the deal around a few clubs and Minty was the only one with the BALLS to take the deal on .
An up and coming French International on a free transfer ,why would you need BALLS to do that deal .
Bearing that in mind ,why would (as it seems ) CW feel the need to record meetings with peepil he was dealing with in the Ragers fc takeover
I suppose what I am trying to say is ,if you were doing legitimate business with legitimate businessmen you would not need either balls (if you have no concerns about the legitimacy of the deal ) or a Dictaphone if you trust the peepil your dealing with .
just my opinion though 😉

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on7:45 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Carntyne says:
February 1, 2014 at 8:37 am

54

3

Rate This

Some seem to be surprised that ‘The Rangers’ haven’t sold any players given their financial situation, but I think that’s less to do with their reluctance to sell, in fact they were desperate to sell, and more to do with the fact no one is interested in what they have to sell.

________________________________________________
I imagine the conversations went like this

RIFC CEO: “Please God help me shift some of these useless eejits off my payroll. ”

Club Agent: “Wha are you trying to sell? n Hoo much d’ye want?”
RIFC CEO: “All of them! Anything! Just get them out of here before the cash runs out!”
Club Agent: “Ah’ll see whit ah can dae”

Club agent: “Nowt Doing, but Baz is a mate and sez he might be able to dae ye a bit o’ a ‘Boumsong’ fer Lee Wallace. Wages er a wee bitty o’ a problem tho!.”

RIFC CEO:” Ahem. Any of you boys fancy taking a wee pay cut to help sort out the clubs mess? Pretty please?”
RIFC playing squad: “Erm , thanks all the same, but mebbes naw?”

RIFC CEO: “They willnae take a cut in wages.
Club agent: “Disnae look good then. Some of them areny total keech reight enuff, but they ARE all massively overpaid. There naebody wants any o’ them, and them as wid tek ’em cannae afford ony o’ their wages”
RIFC CEO: “Neither can we. Thank them all for the tremendous loyalty they have shown would ye?”

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justshateredPosted on8:09 pm - Feb 1, 2014


john clarke says:
February 1, 2014 at 6:37 pm

I also heard this segment of the show and I found his approach astounding.
It was almost akin to the phrase that was oft repeated during the infamous year of death threats and bombs; ‘he brings it on himself’.
I have watched aghast at the coverage of Neil Lennon since he became Celtic manager. I’ve seen news conferences where he was answering questions in an un-confrontational and articulate manner only to pick up a paper the following day and read words like ‘raged’, ‘angry’, ‘accused’, ‘erupted’, ‘seethed’, and ‘snarled’ accompanied by a picture, not even taken at the press conference, of him gesticulating with a contorted face at a game. These articles, accompanied by the phrase above, generated a firestorm which was entirely media created. Virtually every sports radio show in this country had a ‘Neil Lennon’ section which fed a section of our society and allowed them to believe that it was perfectly all right to hound an individual within our country.
His touchline record is often brought up and used against him.
He has never punched an opposition manager on the touchline in a European tie or been involved in a scuffle with the Chairman of another club on the touchline. Can you imagine if he had. No the above incidents are the property of Craig Brown our former national coach. He had the famous scuffle with John Boyle at the end of a match between Aberdeen and Motherwell. When he punched the opposition manger on the touchline at Fir Park during a European tie it was actually reported by Chick Young as a humorous incident. Can anyone seriously believe that Neil Lennon would have been treated in the same way?
Neil Lennon is defensive of his team. Name me a manager that isn’t. He does sometimes cross the line, like any other manager, but the fact that his only touchline ban last season came when a microphone picked him up swearing at Jim Goodwin in an incident that virtually everyone, except the powers that be, thought was a joke possibly says it all.
The simple fact that Graham Spiers could not specifically say on air why Neil Lennon is so vilified in his adopted home really says it all. Our nation, and particularly our media, really do have a lot of growing up to do.
This is a football forum and I’m sorry for using it for what, quite clearly, is not a football issue.
There are elements in our society that should be met head on, and NOT by Neil Lennon, but by the law.
I’ve just watched the France v England rugby match where fans mixed together and players had a genuine respect for each other despite collisions that would break a family car. What a pity our sport has become so divisive and antagonistic.

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neepheidPosted on8:19 pm - Feb 1, 2014


justshatered says:
February 1, 2014 at 8:09 pm

The simple fact that Graham Spiers could not specifically say on air why Neil Lennon is so vilified in his adopted home really says it all.
========================
I really wish someone would explain it in simple terms that I can understand. I’m probably not getting out enough these days, but it’s totally beyond my limited comprehension. I see loads of vile abuse of Lennon on almost every football forum, twitter, etc. Is he supposed to have done something that can’t be discussed?

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John ClarkPosted on8:32 pm - Feb 1, 2014


neepheid says:
February 1, 2014 at 8:19 pm
‘…. I see loads of vile abuse of Lennon on almost every football forum, twitter, etc. Is he supposed to have done something that can’t be discussed?’
———-
No, he has not.
. Spiers actually got this bit right: Lennon was virtually unheard of, playing for Leicester, occasionally capped for Northern Ireland.
And then he pulled on the Celtic jersey.
That was , is , his ‘crime’. Pure and simple.
Spiers’ mistake tonight was to imply,assert even, that Lennon attracted the hatred because he stood up for himself. As if by taking racist/sectarian abuse meekly he would not be subject to it!!
Peculiar logic indeed.

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justshateredPosted on8:49 pm - Feb 1, 2014


john clarke says:
February 1, 2014 at 8:32 pm

Thanks John.
You put it so much better than I could.

Spiers implied that if Neil Lennon simply stays in the house then this problem will disappear.
It won’t.
They will either up the tempo when he does have the temerity to leave his home or they will move on to someone else who may not have the resources that Neil Lennon has.

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ianagainPosted on9:00 pm - Feb 1, 2014


A few on here may remember the great Schweppes motor hi-jack scenario amongst us old RTC ers.
Mind a motor full would be circa 20k these days.
Wallace get up the Blue room pronto

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bladesmanPosted on9:07 pm - Feb 1, 2014


I have to say that the report of Neil Lennon being attacked is a truly sad indictment of this proud nation of ours.
Whilst I have no great love for the fellow, to be vilified and hated by so many narrow minded individuals from all walks of life, my heart goes out to Neil Lennon. This man simply plys his trade like many of us and while sometimes his(understandable) defensive demeanour and language plays into the hands of his detractors, none of this should make a jot of difference in a forward looking democracy. And therein lies the problem… from the hallowed and decidedly dodgy halls of power in Edinburgh to the Ray Cooney farce doon Govan Way, we appear either incapable or, worse, unwillinging to grasp the nettle and call it for what it is.
If I was Neil Lennon, I would thank Celtic for all the glory days, and pack my bags for a quieter and no doubt happier existence managing somewhere down in Englandshire, where folk would simply judge him on his ability as a manager and not which school he attended or what church he visits with his family.
Noone should have to endure the crap that young man does by purely being who he is.

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jwd1103Posted on9:18 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Re the treatment of Lennon – As a player he was always one of the ones you loved to hate..primarily because you’d love to have him playing for your team than against .. i can only assume the treatment of Neil Lennon in the SMSM is because he is a Catholic who played for NornIrn – I’m a Dunfermline fan born n bred In Fife so this religion nonsense makes no sense to me as a (my wife may disagree at times) normal thinking person. Would a Rangers ( of whatever name) manager be subjected to that level of reporting (especially the death threats) have it reported in the same manner…I think not.
Slightly OT but all the best to the boys for the cup tie at Ibroakes on Friday. Really hope we beat them but should we lose in a fair manner I pray to the gods of Football that they draw Celtic in the next round..with an awareness of the mayhem that that draw may bring so forgive me…..SFA/SPF/L you deserve that…it’s your nightmare at the moment, this is the fixture Scottish football depends on (you say), because at this point in time it could be a World Record defeat for a Rangers side ( in their world record breaking world) by Celtic. I know it won’t happen (the RFC placemen at the draw won’t allow it).
Just re-read that & it sounds so paranoid …….

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paraniodbyexperiencePosted on9:26 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Graham Spiers is correct.

If I had a nice pair of brogues and was part of the establishment Lennon demonstrates what is so disgusting about him and his ilk:
1 he has ginger hair
2 he is from the North but supports them (make of that what you will)
3 he should go back home
4 (very important) he is not like Mr McMoist ( see what I did there)
5 SMSM KNOW HE IS ALL OF THE ABOVE because they WANT to believe it and their readers love it ….it sells.

On the other hand this type of squirrel journalism might be deliberately put in place because in the event of really bad news focus has to be shined on a universal foe …Neil and his * type*

God bless the SFA….BECAUSE MANY DO NOT

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CastofthousandsPosted on9:47 pm - Feb 1, 2014


justshatered says:
February 1, 2014 at 8:09 pm

“This is a football forum and I’m sorry for using it for what, quite clearly, is not a football issue.”
——————————-
The tag line of this forum is ‘Asking the questions the media won’t ask’. Disgraceful treatment of any member of the football fraternity, be it manager, player, Chairman or fan is right in the cross hairs of what we should be aiming at.

AMcC is often ridiculed by posters on here and though it could be argued that some of his behaviour has been despicable, I do find some of the personal insults levelled at him a tad distasteful.

This is a long way however from the treatment Lennon has received. So why has Lennon been characterised as some kind of monster?

I think it is because he is willing to stand up for himself in a way that suggests he has as much right to strive for success as anyone else. On the park he was tenacious and perhaps a wee bit dirty but other players (R. Keane, B. Ferguson, P. Ince, R. Gattuso etc) all had similar traits but were never singled out in this way even if they went on into a management career.

Part of the issue is that he was put up against AMcC as the other new manager of an OF team. Ally was media friendly and carried a compliant press with him. For Lennon to have the audacity to better him was to step across some kind of invisible line. If, as seems increasingly likely, Rangers benefited from certain off-field advantages over a long period of time then anyone standing up against their dominance might have to add a bit of forcefulness to their approach to make up for a perceived disadvantage.

Whilst many might suspect there was an uneven playing field in Scottish football, I think Lennon new in his heart it was truly the case. So he pressed against this tendency knowing to do otherwise would likely result in his efforts common up short. It seems to me that his ‘seeing it as it is’ was a huge challenge to the status quo. The guy’s body language openly betrayed a man that was willing to put his head where it hurts, even if it hurted. That is how you bring about change. Every movement for change that ever existed has had individuals that have put themselves in harms way to illustrate that it is those that are doing the harm that are in the wrong and not the victim.

This has been a very sad episode. I hope the fans involved in such apparently unprovoked (and I have no doubt there would have been little if any provocation), reflect on their actions and grow to see them for what they are. This is just hurting someone else to make yourself feel a bit better. It is one of the basest of human characteristics.

The :slamb: certainly have a big role to play in this situation. Their ongoing vilification of Lennon has likely had a drip drip effect on fans and made it feel normal to dole out treatment of this kind.

I hope Neil Lennon sticks around for some time to come. I am not his biggest fan since I do not know enough of him to make him an idol. He manages a very successful football team which suggests he is professional at his work. Kenny Shiels made a number of controversial remarks when at Kilmarnock but this would not give the right to anyone to mistreat him.

View Comment

ianagainPosted on9:47 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Lets just say the folk who attacked Neil were [], will get arrested, will get prosecuted, will go to jail.

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Fritz AgrandoldteamPosted on10:01 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Every time I visit my non-footballing friends in Fife, they assure me that sectarianism is purely a west coast problem and I always disagree. I would like to thank the Aberdeen fans for proving my point.

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whispererPosted on10:03 pm - Feb 1, 2014


I would like to think that the powers that be know who was sitting where … Maybe even cameras are in the main stand ?
And the Police Scotland and SFA will take appropriate action .
And that our upstanding SMSM will condemn it wholeheartedly

Wishful thinking eh !

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bladesmanPosted on10:09 pm - Feb 1, 2014


You’re absolutely right Fritz our wee country is awash with that most embarrassing of afflictions, it’s just that its beating heart is in the west coast/greater glasgow area…

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TSFMPosted on10:16 pm - Feb 1, 2014


We have set up a BHF Memorial Fund for Paul McC. We have opened the fund with the £355 cash we have received. Those folk who pledged cash but have not yet sent it to us (around another £200 worth), please try to get it to us within the next few days. If the pledges are not met, then The Scottish Football Monitor will ensure that the £550 (in cash and pledges) raised last month is donated.

Those people who would have contributed but were not aware, might want to contribute to the fund directly (thus cutting out the TSFM middleman). The fund is at http://lastinghope.bhf.org.uk/paulmcconville

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easyJamboPosted on10:21 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Aberdeen FC statement

Following the allegations of spitting and missiles being directed at Celtic manager Neil Lennon at Tynecastle this afternoon, an AFC spokesperson commented.

“The support we enjoyed at Tynecastle was absolutely fantastic and helped to create an incredible atmosphere that the manager and players acknowledged played a major part in what was wonderful day and occasion for Aberdeen Football Club.

“However, it would appear that a tiny minority within the Main Stand behaved in a manner that is completely unacceptable and has absolutely no place in football and we would urge anyone who has any information as to the identity of those responsible to get in touch with the Club in order that appropriate action can be taken.”

View Comment

rougvielovesthejunglePosted on10:31 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Fritz Agrandoldteam says:
February 1, 2014 at 10:01 pm

Sorry Fritz, but with regards to Aberdeen FC, your comments are completely wide of the mark.

I’ve watched Aberdeen since the late 70’s and not once have I heard our support sing a song which could be considered a Celtic or Rangers (in liquidation) song. And let’s not forget a common chant from AFC fans to Celtic fans used to be “we hate Rangers more than you”. I for one hope the situation never arises that we have to sing ” we hate Sevco more than you” at our games 😀

Trust me, I’d go as far as to say Aberdeen are the least sectarian club in Scotland.

Stand Free.

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pepperamiPosted on10:57 pm - Feb 1, 2014


I have to say that the report of Neil Lennon being attacked is a truly sad indictment of this proud nation of ours.
Whilst I have no great love for the fellow, to be vilified and hated by so many narrow minded individuals from all walks of life, my heart goes out to Neil Lennon. This man simply plys his trade like many of us and while sometimes his(understandable) defensive demeanour and language plays into the hands of his detractors, none of this should make a jot of difference in a forward looking democracy. And therein lies the problem… from the hallowed and decidedly dodgy halls of power in Edinburgh to the Ray Cooney farce doon Govan Way, we appear either incapable or, worse, unwillinging to grasp the nettle and call it for what it is.
If I was Neil Lennon, I would thank Celtic for all the glory days, and pack my bags for a quieter and no doubt happier existence managing somewhere down in Englandshire, where folk would simply judge him on his ability as a manager and not which school he attended or what church he visits with his family.
Noone should have to endure the crap that young man does by purely being who he is.

******************************************************************************************************************

So you would pack up and let the [] who pass themselves down as football fans get what they want.

The man is way better than that if he leaves it will be his own decision.

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upthehoopsPosted on11:15 pm - Feb 1, 2014


easyJambo says:
February 1, 2014 at 10:21 pm
9 0 Rate This

Aberdeen FC statement
==============================
I will separate this into two parts.

(1) Aberdeen fans in general are extremely unlikely to be sectarian in nature. It is good the club is seeking to take strong action. However, I have to ask if the Lennon abuse will be discussed on the front and back pages of the media for three weeks. Maybe it will, but I doubt it.

(2) Celtic fans in general are extremely unlikely to be moved to wreck seats at an opponents stadium. However, I have to ask why the fact a ‘tiny’ minority did wreck seats at Fir Park in December 2013 managed to remain a media discussion point for the following three weeks.

I await with interest to see how long the media will discuss today’s Neil Lennon issue. The Aberdeen support are clearly a good support in general, as are the Celtic support. As I said, I await with interest to see how long the media will discuss today’s Neil Lennon issue.

The problem is not that huge among the fans, but there is (in my opinion) a huge problem with media bias.

Goodnight, and all comments welcome.

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Matteo GalyPosted on11:17 pm - Feb 1, 2014


As a proud Scot and non-Celtic fan, I am totally ashamed of my fellow countrymen and women who continue to abuse a man for merely earning a living here.
Neil Lennon has done nothing to these people and it’s disgusting that anyone would condone such actions and even worse, give justification for it by this ‘he brings it on himself’ nonsense.
We like to call ourselves ‘the best wee country in the world’, but we have a long way to go before we can justify such a bold statement.
It really does sicken me some of the attitudes in this country, it has to stop.

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pepperamiPosted on11:27 pm - Feb 1, 2014


upthehoops says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:15 pm

I agree with you to an extent aberdeen supporters not really sectarian though they do have a reputation spanning back to the early casual days as having a hooligan element now I’m not long in from work don’t know much about what exactly happened.

At this minute in time I simply would say some of them saw an easy target to take advantage of.

It still makes it no less of a dreadfull and shamefull act.

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Fritz AgrandoldteamPosted on11:30 pm - Feb 1, 2014


rougvielovesthejungle says:

February 1, 2014 at 10:31 pm

I completely agree with you that Aberdeen are the least sectarian club in Scotland, but even their fans attack Neil Lennon which is my point. Until this problem is tackled head on, Scotland will continue to be a wee 17th century backwater.

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Lord WobblyPosted on11:33 pm - Feb 1, 2014


I’m sure he was taking a seat in the Ibrox directors box in his capacity as Chairman of Brechin Tindal Oatts Solicitors. Probably.

http://willievass.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/010214-Rangers-v-Brechin-City/G00002q4QBbC9Poo/I00007bwQ7NFIM9c/C0000Lnj26DX67t0

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justshateredPosted on11:56 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Interesting to see Phil Mac stating that ‘The Rangers’ will run out of money THIS month.
Is he correct?
What will happen?
Without a serious cash injection what are the repercussions?

If Phil is correct and, lets face it, he has been right more often than any in this debacle then will the club simply cease trading. I mean this possibly isn’t a CVA situation as the cash will simply dry up. Sure they may owe the usual suspects; Police Scotland, St. John’s Ambulance, Newsagents etc but the big problem is that neither the club or the RIFC will have any money.
I have always thought that at this point the money from the IPO would have been loaned to ‘The Rangers’ and RIFC would simply take Ibrox, Murray Park, and the car park. I was discussing this with my brother and he reckoned that at the recent AGM the annual accounts would need to show these as borrowings from RIFC. Does anyone know if this would be correct?

After the separation of assets I expected a statement saying that the club had two weeks to find a buyer or it would shut. The emotional blackmail of the ‘real Rangers men’ would be considerable. The problem for this group is that they would also have to fund the on going loses. It has been mentioned that these are £1M a month but when you think about it in this instance it would actually be far more than this as they would not even have season ticket money to off set it against. They would be starting with the second highest wage bill in Scotland with not one penny in the bank.
Oh and on top of this they would be paying rent on the properties.
Meanwhile the players will not play for nothing. They wouldn’t take a 15% pay cut and these aren’t guys who have been on £20K a week that they can absorb not being paid for long.
Will financial sanity be brought to the ‘big hoose’?
I doubt it because they simply don’t do downsizing.

What will the SFA do?
What will the SPFL do?
Are they really prepared to promote a team who has instigated an insolvency event?
As Ally would say ‘we deserve to know!!’
At what point does the penny drop that this club/company is a parasite on our sport?

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bobferrisPosted on11:58 pm - Feb 1, 2014


Maybe those idiots today just hated Neil Lennon for who he is and had nothing to do with his religion. I don’t much care for him, (although I actually quite admire his outspoken comments at press conferences) but he should be able to watch a football match in peace. Hopefully arrests will be made.

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Lord WobblyPosted on12:26 am - Feb 2, 2014


bobferris says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:58 pm
3 2 Rate This
Maybe those idiots today just hated Neil Lennon for who he is …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is that the ‘he brings it upon himself’ argument? Really?

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