A Guest Blog for TSFM by beatipacificiscotia
As a child I read a poem by John Godfrey Saxe, “The Blind Men and the Elephant”, and stumbled upon it again recently. It is a simple tale of how six blind men encounter an Elephant and attempt to describe the animal:
It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.
The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a WALL!”
You get the idea. The other blind men did little better. The second grabbed the tusk and thought the elephant like a spear. Others thought the elephant like a snake (the trunk), a tree (the leg), a fan (the ear), and finally a rope (the tail). What does this have to do with this blog? Let me explain.
There is a danger of all of us, whether consciously or unconsciously, making the same mistake as these blind gentleman. It is too easy to use the parts of the argument that fit our values and belief system, at the expense of the whole truth. The 13th century Jaina scholar, Mallisena, described a much earlier version of the same tale as a parable to argue that people deny various aspects of truth; deluded by the aspects they do understand, they deny the aspects they don’t understand. He said:
“Due to extreme delusion produced on account of a partial viewpoint, the immature deny one aspect and try to establish another. This is the maxim of the blind (men) and the elephant.”
I am incapable of putting it any better than that, though I would go further. I argue that people are deluded by the aspects that they choose to understand, and deny the aspects that they refuse to understand. Which leads me to my tale …..
I have recently read a news report about a decision taken by the Advertising Standards Authority on advertising activities of The Rangers Football Club Ltd and their claims to history and honours. It includes the following quote referring to advice from the SFA:
“We also consulted with the SFA, which confirmed that its definition of a football ‘club’ varied depending on context, and could sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner.”
I was most unhappy to read this part of the statement. I am yet to see the definition or statement of when you could “sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner”. This is a contradiction to the definition of a football club given by FIFA; a definition which is handed down to the Confederations, and from Confederations to Associations.
You may or may not be aware, the application of good governance in football is administered through club licensing. This annual process ensures that minimum standards are maintained, to promote growth and development, and ultimately protects all of football – every club, every player and staff member, the integrity of every competition, suppliers of goods and services, the reputation of sponsors, and most of all the fans. FIFA Club Licensing Regulations state that a license applicant must be a football club, defined as:
“Legal entity fully and solely responsible for the football team participating in national and international club competitions that applies for a licence.”
This is a clear and unambiguous definition, which is being ignored by the SFA. Why is this issue so important? Simply, a football club must be held responsible for its commercial activities. For example, an over-ambitious and over-spending Rangers changed the Scottish football landscape forever. Other clubs tried to compete in an unsustainable “Cold War”-like football arms race. I believe Scottish football was damaged. Many clubs have been taken to the brink of death. This could happen in any country, in any league, anywhere in the world. For that reason, a football club and its corporate body must be one and the same, living or dying, inseparably intertwined. The separation of club and company is a myth, a myth dangerous to good governance. Rangers (1872-2012) should be a cautionary tale told to every club owner.
There are many benefits to club licensing. These including minimum standards for stadia and infrastructure, youth development programs, and much more. I would heartily recommend that you read the FIFA document if you have the time. It gave birth to the word and spirit of Financial Fair Play. Look at some of the financial benefits detailed:
10.3 Benefits
Implementation of the financial criteria will help deliver both short and long-term improvements for clubs, the licensors and the football family in general. For the football family in general, the financial criteria should help to:
• safeguard the continuity and integrity of competitions;
• increase the transparency and credibility of clubs’ financial operations;
• improve confidence in the probity of the football industry;
• create a more attractive market for the game’s commercial partners and investors; and
• provide the basis for fair competition, because competition is not just about the teams on the pitch.
For the licensors, the financial criteria should help to:
• improve their understanding of the financial position and prospects of their member clubs;
• encourage clubs to settle liabilities to creditors on a timely basis;
• enhance transparency in the money flow of clubs;
• enhance their ability to be proactive in assisting clubs with financial issues; and
• provide a starting point for club benchmarking at a national level for those licensors and clubs who want to develop this aspect.
For the clubs, the financial criteria should help to:
• improve the standards and quality of financial management and planning activities;
• enable better management decision-making;
• enhance clubs’ financial and business credibility with stakeholders;
• improve financial stability; and
• enhance revenue-generating ability and cost management.
Important words, and I trust the value and opportunity these regulations offer are now clear. Note bullet points 3 and 4, and that our top league currently does not have a sponsor. The SFA must ensure the integrity of competitions, discourage financial recklessness, and protect football for everyone. This is only possible with a clear, unambiguous statement that confirms club / company are one and the same thing.
To suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation is to undermine the definition of what is a football club, one of the cornerstones of FIFA Club Licensing Regulations. For the SFA to suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation, or allow this belief to go unchallenged, is a shameful dereliction of duty. It puts all of football in danger. We cannot allow this. There is too much at stake.
The poem ends thus:
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!
The blind men were each partially right, though in their vanity / stubbornness / ignorance they failed to find the truth. There is a lesson for us all in this story. This may appear to be an attempt to renew the old club / new club debate. It is not. To see this as an opportunity to score points against Rangers fans is to completely miss the point – you have failed to find the truth.
This is global issue affecting one of the fundamentals of good governance. Good governance must be the beating heart of our game – ensuring good health and long life. I am looking at the here and now, and ahead into the future.
We must protect and promote ALL of the FIFA Club Licensing Regulations. To deny any part is to refuse to see the whole elephant, like the foolish blind men.
Fritz Agrandoldteam says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:30 pm
Good to see we agree that Aberdeen aren’t a sectarian club.
I also agree that Aberdeen have their fair share of idiots that supposedly claim to “support” the club and that whatever happened today to Neil Lennon was a complete disgrace but it had nothing to do with sectarianism.
Had it been Mr McCoist in the same seat in the stand, I daresay the idiotic fans would have treated him in exactly the same appalling manner. In fact, had it been McCoist, I’d have been surprised if he even got to sit down!
It’s simply a venomous hatred with a certain minority of Aberdeen fans unfortunately. Definitely not sectarianism, but you are absolutely correct, today’s embarrassing behaviour was certainly backward.
justshatered says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:56 pm
‘…Without a serious cash injection what are the repercussions?..’
————-
For RIFC supporters, small shareholders, creditors,and staff and players- quite horrendous.
For RIFC directors/major shareholders, a nice wee profit bonanza as they severally move on to look for other easy ways to riches, laughing up their sleeves at the gullibility of so many and the ease with which they can corrupt the ‘authorities’. With, of course, the support of the SMSM.
For Scottish Football as a whole, not terribly significant.
Unless the Football Authorities summon up the spectre of ‘civil unrest’ and ‘armageddon’ and do their little devious 5-way, secretive, yuri geller bending- of- things trick again to placate another CG type of lying shyster looking for a quick killing..
If it comes to the bit, we will not allow our Football Authorities to sell us out again.
We have to hope they have sufficient savvy to realise that if they try to do so, they will actually destroy Scottish Football.
justshatered says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:56 pm
I have always thought that at this point the money from the IPO would have been loaned to ‘The Rangers’ and RIFC would simply take Ibrox, Murray Park, and the car park. I was discussing this with my brother and he reckoned that at the recent AGM the annual accounts would need to show these as borrowings from RIFC. Does anyone know if this would be correct?
———
This appears in the RIFC Company Balance Sheet (p25 of the Accounts) as ‘Amounts due from subsidiary undertakings’ of £16.163m. Note 15 on p39 explains that the “Amounts due to RIFC from The Rangers Football Club Ltd represents the proceeds of the Initial Public Offering less costs incurred in the fundraising. The net funds from this activity have been made available to the subsidiary as working capital.”
justshatered says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:56 pm
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Interesting to see Phil Mac stating that ‘The Rangers’ will run out of money THIS month.
Is he correct?
What will happen?
___________________________________________
My guess:
– shock horror – A proper administration at TRFC.
Bye Bye Ally. (Ally will doubtless offer to stay on and work for free, for lurve of the jersey. Wouldn’t be surprised if the response is – ” thanks but no thanks, you’ve done enough already”.)
Mass redundancies of Ibrox staff.
Protection from creditors mean most if not all senior players will be shown the door without compensation.
A skeleton staff of people prepared to work without wages will mean that something lumps on to the end of the season.
RIFC will then advance enough short term finance to keep the doors open (punitive interest)
The plan will be for RIFC to buy the TRFC out of administration from the debt owed to itself by means of an asset swap.
And then I predict a team of 24 players each on 1/10th of the wages of the current Ibrox incumbents, under Paul Hartley, who has probably already been tipped the nod.
(If I was cynical, I would suggest that the current blaoted crop of overpaid journeymen prima donnas is only there to make the post admin team look more palletable to the bears, who might even find that 24 hungry kids under Paul Hartley put on a better show than the Ian Blacks and John Daly’s for a tiny percentage of the outlay)
For the avoidance of doubt, if you are going to declare a dislike or whatever regarding NL, it might be an idea to also justify, if you can.
As when you don’t, some folk will suspect you of having an agenda, I’ll be honest, I know I do. There are obviously going to be folks that are insulted by the thought of having to justify their opinion, but the “why” is the issue as I see it.
Out of the many folk I have no intention of wishing a merry Christmas this year, none come in to the category of “I just can’t put my finger on why, but I don’t like them.” So for what appears to be so many folk with that justification for disliking NL, the odds don’t stack up.
When Phil Mac announced that The Rangers will run out of money this month I took notice. Phil does not make rash claims. If I was a shareholder I would cut my losses and sell before the shares become totally worthless if I could find a mug to buy them. Playing and non playing staff will be out of work and there will be no redundancy payments. There will be no money. In less than 4 weeks The Rangers will not exist. No money for wages. Nowt.
Much is being made of the abuse Neil Lennon was subjected to and the subsequent reaction to it, but let me ask one question of the readership here. “What would it take to make you want to spit at someone or throw a coin hoping it would cause them harm?” I can’t think of anything related to football that would provoke me to do so.
Re Lennon. The assault ob lennon on the sideline at tynecastle included testimony fron hearts head of security that sectarian language was used by the hearts fan during his attack. The fact that that his testimony was not enough to make that charge stick was down to the legal system in scotland. The other fact is that it shows aquinas that its definitely not sectarianism at the club itself but amongst some idiots in the crowd.
My issue, and others have referenced it, is that the MSM and not just scottish, express an daily mail websites take every opportunity to paint lennon subhuman – raging, snarling, aggressive. Jeez he kicked over a waterbottle. Look at the avuse Pardew gave pellegrini recently. 10x worse. No the media from the Sun’s infamous cartoon to the reporting of the ShameGame had told thugs and neds its ok to have a go at Lennon, heck its RIGHT TO as he brings it upon itself.
And the worst part is the this Aberdeen incident will be used by the media and others as “proof” attacks on lennon are not sectarian but because its his personality that gets him assaulted on the street or at work or has bombs and death threats sent to him in the post.
And so it will continue.
Re the club from Ibrox potentially running out of money this month, and the subsequent impact. I am not a liquidation expert but it is clear from the last time a club from Ibrox first entered Administration that the laid down rules simply don’t apply. From the First Minster attempting to influence HMRC to the Police and Ambulance services being ordered to cover their games, it is clear the establishment tried to smooth their passage as much as possible. It has been covered enough on here how much the football authorities helped them, although fan power averted the ultimate carve up.
I can see a scenario where they enter administration, receive a points deduction, somehow keep all their players, and receive publicly funded assistance yet again from the Police and Ambulance services. Meanwhile, a smiling SPFL representative will happily hand over the League 1 trophy before Ally takes his triumphant players on another part of their fabled journey. The rest of the clubs will just have to accept they are inferior in the natural pecking order to the club from Ibrox and continue to pay for everything.
In summary, the club from Ibrox running out of money is likely to be business as usual. Not only is that the way they do things at Ibrox, it is clear that is they way they do things in Scotland. Shameful.
Have we morphed into a radical supporters blog while I was sleeping or is it just the school holidays?
Aquinas says:
February 2, 2014 at 2:00 am
“We’ll we’ve had it with yer wee outfit in E’burgh, ”
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You are entitled to your opinion and you’ve explained your reasons so, if you’ve ‘had it’, that’s fair enough.
But please don’t include me in your royal ‘we’.
I do not consider all (or even the majority) of the Hearts fans to be rascists and I certainly wouldn’t want their club to die on the grounds that some are. If we go down that route then we’d be as well closing every club. Our own included.
From the guys on KDS.
I don’t have access to the Sun but here’s the headline.
Exclusive
By CAMERON HAY
Published: 7 hrs ago
RANGERS are at the centre of a financial cover-up investigation over claims the club will be broke within two weeks.
The stock exchange inquiry was launched after an Ibrox official is alleged to have forecast they would run out of cash by mid-February.
Aquinas says:
February 2, 2014 at 2:00 am
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Let me say just this: Aquinas you are a disgrace to the pseudonym you use.Please do not try to drag this blog into the depths of vile obscenity.Go elsewhere with that kind of filthy-minded rubbish.
john clarke says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:12 am
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Aquinas says:
February 2, 2014 at 2:00 am
–
Let me say just this: Aquinas you are a disgrace to the pseudonym you use.Please do not try to drag this blog into the depths of vile obscenity.Go elsewhere with that kind of filthy-minded rubbish.
————————————————————————————–
Well said, sir.
Re the ongoing losses at Ibrox.
Based on the accounts, which is all we really have to go on, and the assumption that little has been done to change incomings and outgoings considerably, then the losses are around £1m per month on average. With the important bit being on average.
The actual running costs would be more like something approaching £2.5m. So if there is no money coming in then that is the amount an owner has to come up with, and it has to come from any money being earned. Anything else has to come from cash reserves or borrowing.
If there is a new owner (of the football club) then they will have to finance that level of spending until they get the next significant cash injection. That is likely to be the season tickets, and in order to maximise that income they would have to stage manage the transition period very carefully.
john clarke says:
February 2, 2014 at 12:32 am
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justshatered says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:56 pm
‘…Without a serious cash injection what are the repercussions?..’
————-
For RIFC supporters, small shareholders, creditors,and staff and players- quite horrendous.
=============================
I think you are conflating RIFC and TRFC here. RIFC PLC are extremely unlikely to experience an insolvency event. Their only business is holding the shares of TRFC Ltd. The PLC is (so far as we know) debt free and has no significant creditors. It has almost no cash left because it loaned it all to TRFC Ltd, to allow them to keep a world record breakingly expensive playing in the lower leagues at Ibrox.
TRFC Ltd, on the other hand, looks extremely likely to experience an insolvency event. By now, it must owe RIFC PLC over £25m, having taken all of the IPO money and squandered it. TRFC has contracts to fulfil and bills to pay. At this time of year, it relies almost entirely on RIFC for the cash to meet its commitments. When RIFC finally runs out of cash, then it is TRFC that can’t pay the wages or the bills. At that point, TRFC will have to be put into administration.
The shareholders hold shares in RIFC PLC, not in TRFC Ltd, so they will lose nothing and gain significantly once TRFC goes bust. For a start, the company they hold shares in will have stopped throwing its cash away. More importantly, as the principal creditor, they can arrange for the properties to be transferred in satisfaction of their debt.
I confidently forecast that the share price will rise once TRFC goes into administration, so the shareholders should rejoice, although a large segment of Rangers supporting individual shareholders will be gutted, as well as confused, because they truly thought they had bought shares in Rangers, and simply won’t understand what has happened when they are left holding a few hundred shares in an AIM listed property company that milks their beloved team for rent to keep the dividends flowing.
As regards external creditors, I think they will be minimal this time round. It is probably in the interests of those controlling RIFC to ensure that everyone else is paid up, so that there can be no challenge to the transfer of the properties. The players and staff are the ones who will really suffer. But then most of the high earners have been getting paid well over the market rate for quite a while now. The ones I feel sorry for are the people at the bottom, loyal servants of the club on peanuts as usual, and who will struggle to find another job.
Torrejohnbhoy
Serious statement there,wonder who the source of this information was ,is this why Wallace was going to walk midweek,will be interesting how the market reacts to this on Monday morning,oh dear.
I’m kind of numb reading all this stuff about yesterday’s events. I was really upbeat listening to the radio coverage yesterday. There was atmosphere, Armageddon crowds, and positivity. Then this.
I often wonder how Mr Ogilvie, Mr Doncaster and Mr Regan would tackle the situation if it was another high-profile manager that was subjected to this kind of treatment on repeated occasions.
There’s an issue here that needs an informed public debate. The attitudes that caused the shameful treatment of Celtic’s manager yesterday are allowed to proliferate when those in authority do not speak up and act. The blithe acceptance of the ‘F*** the Pope’ mentality by the football authorities — who continue to hold their protective hand over the one club most associated with this poison — is an outrage.
Apologies to Galling Fiver, and others.
I think my head got hacked,
Sabbatical time.
The language has deteriorated around here – hear hear to John Clarke’s admonition earlier.
Meanwhile, far away on the other side of town…..
http://m.northantstelegraph.co.uk/news/top-stories/rangers-supporters-club-set-for-demolition-1-5844252
Oh dear 🙂
FIFA says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:33 am
Torrejohnbhoy
Serious statement there,wonder who the source of this information was ,is this why Wallace was going to walk midweek,will be interesting how the market reacts to this on Monday morning,oh dear.
===============================================================
I don’t know if the SMSM has carried any stories on Wallace ‘walking’ and if not the market won’t react because it won’t know. Unlikely the Patey’s of this world will be passing on the news either IMO going on every single past utterance and performance of his that I have viewed.
As to unidentified ‘sources’ – I fully realise why sensible journos and posters are loth to give any clue as to who they are. In that kind of situation I make my judgement of the info from such a source based on the journo or poster passing it on. Wrt to Phil stating it I have to say there are some issues which I don’t agree with him on but I have no probs with his integrity.
If he has made the judgement that his source is telling the truth and is in a position to know the true story then I am happy with that. It’s worth remembering that a high percentage of ‘sources’ have an axe to grind and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you know where they’re coming from. It’s the ones where the ‘angle’ isn’t clear which need to be treated with circumspection as zealots might not actually be lying but can have, in my experience, a very ‘individual’ perception when it comes to what they often passionately believe is right or wrong.
As always time and events will reveal all 😆
Gabby says:
February 2, 2014 at 7:28 am
18 62 Rate This
I am no NL fan. As a player he was a thug in the same class as Kevin Muscat. I still remember the day he headbutted Juanjo, which resulted in somehow Juanjo getting a red card. He has brought the same thuggery to his management career. That aside, I could never imagine myself in a situation where I would yell sectarian abuse or throw missiles at him. I hope those responsible are caught and punished with the full force of the law.
……………………………………………………………
If that is how football affects you then I suggest you find another sport to watch…
Using such words as thug and thuggery is in itself inflammatory and an indication of the level of hate you hold for the individual….I could list a volume of player in professional football who have played football in the same way as Neil and whothe same number who have managed in the same way….I would imagine you would not hold the same views.
Whilst mindful that the whole topic may end up getting removed, I’d just like to chip in on the Neil Lennon thing…..
Phil says regularly on his blog that Lennon is hated because he won’t lie down, and stands up for himself. For this, his regular posters are falling over themselves to tell Phil how great he is and how he tells it like it is. Spiers does much the same thing on Sportsound, and for this he’s an out and out villain?!?!? Spiers was asked why Lennon got the abuse, not why he deserved to get abuse!
I think in general terms, rather than yesterday’s incident, the issue for Lennon is that he’s clearly an intelligent and articulate individual, and that’s what inspires such ire in some corners of the West of Scotland (thankfully, in increasingly small numbers). If he were the stereotypical ‘Thick Irish Joke’ and conformed to their notion of what his ‘sort’ should be like, then they probably wouldn’t care or just laugh it off, but there he is on TV, being cleverer than them, I mean that’s tantamount to rubbing their faces in it!
However, there is a danger that any negative comment about Lennon can be construed along the lines of the above. For my part, I don’t particularly like him, but that’s more to do with his ungracious manner when his team loses, and his sense of victimhood if key decisions don’t go Celtic’s way. I do understand that a lot of that is to do with building a siege mentality within a team. For that reason, I didn’t particularly like Alex Ferguson either. (Please note – I’m not using this as a justification for anyone but myself. I don’t particularly like him, but then, I’m not going to send him death threats or chant vile abuse at him because I think he’s undignified in defeat!)
As for yesterday, I think it’s more likely to be a bunch of idiots taking the opportunity to be as unpleasant as possible to a public figure, than any sort of overwhelmingly sectarian motive. As the Aberdeen fan said in the post above, at least Lennon got to his seat, McCoist would most likely not even have got that far!
[ Edit – just re-read it, and I’ve worded part of it badly. Clearly the Issue isn’t Lennon’s, I meant the issue with Lennon for his detractors]
“The real jewel in the crown is the goodwill of the SFA, SPFL, MSM and “establishment”. How can you put a price on the promise that no matter what happens, no rule will remain unbent until there is a club called Rangers competing for the top spot in Scottish Football? It is a guarantee of future revenues well in excess of what is possible now, and in my mind that is what the current shareholders are taking a punt on. I wouldn’t even be surprised if one of them loaned enough cash to see them through the season.”
===============================================
Unless the price you put on that is in excess of £12m a year then it’s not enough.
Do you really believe that people will “take a punt” of millions of pounds based on “future revenues well in excess of what is possible now”.
Even if all goes well when do you think Rangers will qualify for the champions league, because the way thigs are going just now that is pretty much what it will take. Being in the top league will bring in extra money, absolutely, but enough to make up the shortfall, I don’t think so.
I would argue that AFC does have a problem with more than a Tiny minority of its fans. at the Celtic v aberdeen game on the 23rd Nov there were persistant chants telling the Celtic fans to “go home”. And also repeated singing of a horrible Jimmy Saville song. Very few songs in support of their own team, mostly they sung abusive songs. at Celtic park the away fans are next to family section, so the main recipients of these songs were families and visiting school groups.
What was sung that day was completely unacceptable, it has very disturbing racist and sectarian undertones. A normally thick skinned doctor of my aquaintance even went as far as to report the singing to The hate crime unit of police scotland. She never got a reply.
ollielogie says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:56 am
Far away on the other side of town…..
Westleigh Developments has applied to Corby Council for planning permission to demolish the now-closed premises of England’s largest Rangers Supporters Club and build 24 homes on the site .
It is expected planning permission will be granted in March, allowing building to start in the summer with the homes completed by the middle of 2015.
Looks as though we are seeing the offspring of the flood of Scottish steel workers who headed to Corby assimiliate into the local culture and supporting more local teams.
It’s the same thing that happens throughout the world with succeeding generations of original football-playing and supporting Scots emigrants playing the traditional sports of the host population and what makes the claims of Rangers 500 million worldwide fanbase a total fantasy.
http://m.northantstelegraph.co.uk/news/top-stories/rangers-supporters-club-set-for-demolition-1-5844252
==========================================================
I trust that footballtaxhavens will ensure that all planning rules are followed to the letter and give a certification of: ‘NO STATE AID’ accruing to Rangers.
TSFM says:
February 4, 2014 at 11:59 am
15 3 Rate This
Site speed issue seems to have gone away for now. We have made a few changes to the config which will hopefully help, but we will continue with a watching brief for now.
___________________________________________________________________
Could speed issue be caused by you disturbing the space-time continuum? 🙂
Aquinas, your comments are inappropriate for your chosen name and for this site. Hearts are one of our oldest and most successful football teams and although many of us may wish to beat them into submission on the park, our own teams do need somebody to play against.
I was unaware of yesterday’s events at Tynecastle until logging on to TSFM this morning. Was NL subject to racist/sectarian abuse or physical abuse, or both? Sectarian would be very unusual from Aberdeen fans in my experience.
I once asked my boss’s George Watson’s educated, Rangers supporting son who his favourite player was. His reply was that he didn’t have a favourite but that he hated Mo Johnstone. When I inquired why, he sullenly mumbled “because he is a catholic”. An extraordinary comment from a ten year old and one that should have shocked me deeply but sadly didn’t. His family were not football people but his friends at school had encouraged him to become a Rangers fan and passed on their own learned attitudes to football and religion. I suppose that I became part of the problem by not making his parents aware of his comments at the time and confronting the issue. Sectarianism will not diminish unless it is treated in the same way that racism and drink driving have been in recent times, I.e. with zero tolerance.
Btw on the subject of managers getting abused, and in the interest of balance, the SMSM reported paul le guen getting verbal abuse and even spat on by celtic fans after he visited tynecastle for a celtic hearts. None of le guen, rangers or celtic commented (officially) but the papers went with it anyway.
Clearly, as with yesterday, that wasnt sectarian, given what foot le guen kicked with. And it was outwith the stadiun and just on the street, which is a bit different. Did show a lack of class though…
Shooperb says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:20 am
As for yesterday, I think it’s more likely to be a bunch of idiots taking the opportunity to be as unpleasant as possible to a public figure, than any sort of overwhelmingly sectarian motive. As the Aberdeen fan said in the post above, at least Lennon got to his seat, McCoist would most likely not even have got that far!
==============================================================
Ally has the right to be able to attend a football match, just like, Lennon and not be assaulted and spat upon and not have vile comments chanted at them by some nutters.
However I haven’t seen any poster refer to the fact that coins were reportedly being flung at Lennon. So what happens if Lennon or another supporter or even a child loses an eye. I don’t know how long the incident lasted and therefore whether there was the possibility of apprehending those involved.
Plenty of Aberdeen fans will know who they are and their club should be asking them to identify the perpetrators so that appropriate action can be taken. It will be interesting to see what action the Hampden suits and the Police take. It would also be appropriate for Aberdeen as a club to apologise for the apalling behaviour of the hooligans involved: Make it clear they aren’t wanted as so-called ‘fans’ and bar them from matches if identified.
Oops
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfdeOnLCUAEQdN8.jpg:large
I
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:05 am
From the guys on KDS. I don’t have access to the Sun but here’s the headline.
Exclusive
By CAMERON HAY
‘RANGERS are at the centre of a financial cover-up investigation over claims the club will be broke within two weeks. The stock exchange inquiry was launched after an Ibrox official is alleged to have forecast they would run out of cash by mid-February.’
======================================================
Cameron Hay is the son of Jocky Hay who has done PR at Ibrox and his firm McKerron & Hay features in CF emails. Also very close personal and professional connections with Ramsay Smith of Media House as well as JI himself.
So young Mr Hay – who I have heard is a sharp and upcoming journo – does have very good ‘sources’. However the real importance of the story appearing for me is wondering what the objective is that it is expected to achieve,
Can I ask a question of the more knowledge who post here.
If there is an asset swap and RIFC rent Ibrox to TRFC, who is responsible for repairs and maintenance to the stadium? There have been suggestions that the cost of this will be considerable. Would this not be a further drain on meagre resources if it were to be TRFC?
The story of cash running out shortly adds reason to the non sale of players in the transfer window.
Is there more to gain in admin with players at the club than not?
Is there more to gain financially (assets) if the players were to stay than leave?
With a running loss of 1 million a month…and a suggested cash reserve for 2-3 weeks….then what are the SFA and SPFL doing?
Has anyone at the SFA dared ask to see the books at Ibrox to clarify and restore confidence in Scottish football….after all there are sponsors and TV contracts to think of?
Who would invest in Scottish football now with the SFA allowing this to happen not once but twice on their shout?
ecobhoy says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:51 am
‘…. his firm McKerron & Hay features in CF emails…’
———–
(And who do not respond to emails asking if they are indeed the firm mentioned in the ‘leaked’ CF documents which I think I read as ” Hay McKerron”)
ecobhoy on February 2, 2014 at 10:51 am
… However the real importance of the story appearing for me is wondering what the objective is that it is expected to achieve.
———
Could it be something as banal as breaking the news gently? A rumour today, followed by a headline tomorrow?
A bit like the old sandwich-board men I used to see, carrying the message: ‘Prepare to meet thy doom’ — stoic, cheerless, glass half empty.
bobferris says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:58 pm
3 2 Rate This
Maybe those idiots today just hated Neil Lennon for who he is …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is that the ‘he brings it upon himself’ argument? Really?
———————————–
People hate people, it happens. I hate Gordon Brown but I’d never chuck things at him at a football match. Lennon isn’t a particularly likeable person, he does snarl, he did as a player and he does as a manager. Doesn’t make him a bad person, it’s who he is. I said I hope arrests are made, it’s totally unacceptable what happened to him.
Rufus Otis and Hugo says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:57 am
…………………………………………….
Depends on the commercial contract arranged….you may find with commercial contracts it will be the occupant.
pepperami says:
February 1, 2014 at 10:57 pm
32 8 Rate This
I have to say that the report of Neil Lennon being attacked is a truly sad indictment of this proud nation of ours.
If I was Neil Lennon, I would thank Celtic for all the glory days, and pack my bags for a quieter and no doubt happier existence managing somewhere down in Englandshire, where folk would simply judge him on his ability as a manager and not which school he attended or what church he visits
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is ridiculous and it isn’t the first time that attacks on Lennon have been dressed up as sectarian – MON did it after a vicious onslaught at Tynecastle during Lennon’s playing days. The fact is , Lennon is detested the length and breadth of Scotland not because of his faith or who he MANAGES but because of what he did during his playing career so there’s no point glossing it over and portraying him as some kind of saint since he became manager. Every time I see Lennon I am reminded of a 1998 Sunday Mail article written about Gattuso (then of Rangers) in the immediate aftermath of the cup final…”an ugly man playing ugly football”.
Lennon has a basic right to go about his life without fear of attack and I utterly condemn the latest attack on him. I am not posting this article because (as is often implied of many of his detractors ) I think he is reaping what he has sown. I am posting because I am tired of hearing that anything bad directed at Lennon is sectarian. Lennon is a very unpopular guy because of what he did in his playing days (Leicester City/Alan Shearer anyone ?). That’s not to ignore the sectarian attacks he has undoubtedly been subjected to. But the fact is ,it is possible to be very unpopular simply because of what you have done and not because of what you are or what your faith is. Seeing some people on here jump to the obvious conclusion on this site is disappointing. I expected better scrutiny of the reports that have , as far as I can see , not mentioned any sectarian element.
Rufus Otis and Hugo says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:57 am
Can I ask a question of the more knowledge who post here.
If there is an asset swap and RIFC rent Ibrox to TRFC, who is responsible for repairs and maintenance to the stadium? There have been suggestions that the cost of this will be considerable. Would this not be a further drain on meagre resources if it were to be TRFC?
=====================================================
It would be normal for an FRI (full repairing and insuring) lease to be put in place thus landing TRFC with all such costs on an ongoing basis.
On a normal lease entry date a schedule of dilapidations would be drawn up and any specific problems identified and kept out of the repair obligations passed to the tenant.
In this case however I somehow suspect that approach would not apply as RIFC will look to extract the most cash with the least risk. The will probably argue if asked that TRFC have held ownership of the property for a couple of years now after buying the assets from the administrator and any dilapidations are down to them anyway. RIFC will thus escape any resultant remedial and maintenance costs.
As discussed earlier on this forum that would leave RIFC, assuming a clean subsequent disposal of TRFC, as a sellable property company with a pretty tied in tenant on a most likely extremely onerous rental, perhaps with an initial honeymoon period at no/low cost.
The whole thing really has been beautifully done….
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
justshatered says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:56 pm
I have always thought that at this point the money from the IPO would have been loaned to ‘The Rangers’ and RIFC would simply take Ibrox, Murray Park, and the car park. I was discussing this with my brother and he reckoned that at the recent AGM the annual accounts would need to show these as borrowings from RIFC. Does anyone know if this would be correct?
BigGav says:
February 2, 2014 at 12:47 am
This appears in the RIFC Company Balance Sheet (p25 of the Accounts) as ‘Amounts due from subsidiary undertakings’ of £16.163m. Note 15 on p59 explains that the “Amounts due to RIFC from The Rangers Football Club Ltd represents the proceeds of the Initial Public Offering less costs incurred in the fundraising. The net funds from this activity have been made available to the subsidiary as working capital.”
———————————————————————————————————————
I put these points to a TRFC fan ( who I regard as one of the more intelligent ones ) and his reply was…..
..” it makes no difference. Dunno why you seem to think this is an issue. Shares are held in RIFC plc, so ownership of assets would remain the same even if shifted to that company. Issue would be regarding football licence etc if you’re talking about admin etc, but that would always be an issue anyway
😯 Anyone want to deconstruct this
Aquinas,
It is sad that the events at Tynecastle have caused you such anger aimed at a club and it’s supporters that were in no way responsible for yesterday’s disgraceful scenes.
Unless your numerous rants were because you think Tynecastle holds some malevolent ghostly spirit, I fail to see how you link the disgraceful antics of one Hearts supporter a couple of years ago with those of some Aberdeen fans yesterday. I have to admit, when first reading your repeated vehement attacks on my club and it’s supporters, I had the feeling you were an upgraded troll, giving the impression that your affiliations were strongly with Celtic, setting about upping the sectarian ante to disrupt us from discussing PMGB’s latest blog, but your subsequent apology, to the blog, made me think again. Perhaps you just hate Hearts and welcomed the opportunity to use an assault on your club’s manager, by people unrelated to Hearts, to launch your verbal attack. Still, it is an interesting theory, Aberdeen fans attacking a Celtic manager must be connected to Hearts. It seems to me an even further leap of misguided belief than the Rangers’ bus gets burned, so it must have been done by Celtic fans!
Anyway, on yesterday’s latest disgrace to Scottish football, and indeed, to Scotland:
Neil Lennon, in my opinion, has shown this season a far greater maturity than previously, and has turned into quite a good ambassador for his club. This may, in part, have something to do with the demise of Rangers and the lack of their replacement, and followers, in the top league, giving him some respite from the constant stress of being, what was, an OF manager. I was, and continue to be, mightily impressed by the way he handled himself during the bullets and bombs episode in his life. That should have been enough for the ‘Lennon haters’ to realise he has a noble streak as well as an angry one, and deserves to be either respected or ignored.
I have to admit, my first and only thoughts when hearing of the assault on Lennon, was that it was done by the remaining elements of the Aberdeen casual thugs of yesteryear (once I’d learned that it was Aberdeen fans), and nothing to do with sectarianism, which didn’t even occur to me. My thoughts would have been the same had it been Celtic fans assaulting an Aberdeen manager. They would have been the same if Celtic fans had assaulted McCoist.
On the part played by the SMSM in the widespread ‘hatred’ of Neil Lennon. There’s always been a tendency amongst football supporters of one club to ‘hate’ a player, or manager, of another club, usually for the flimsiest of reasons. This hatred of an individual player/manager was normally confined to individual clubs supporters, and, of course, went no further than them having to face the constant verbal outpourings whenever they visited certain grounds. I think the argument put forward on here that the media are much to blame for the treatment of Neil Lennon is a valid one, as never before has an individual had the blanket coverage of his faux pas and demeanour so critically covered, and often ridiculed. The fact that they put forward the ludicrous idea that ‘he brings it on himself’ is unbelievably irresponsible, even in a modern media noted for it’s sensationalism. The result has been to spread the belief that Lennon is a malevolent influence on our game and the cause of much of it’s ills. Whether this media coverage is as a result of journalists bigotry, stupidity, search for sensationalism or just pro-Rangers/anti-Celtic, I don’t know. Whatever it is, it’s just plain wrong.
BigGav says:
February 2, 2014 at 12:47 am
justshatered says:
February 1, 2014 at 11:56 pm
I have always thought that at this point the money from the IPO would have been loaned to ‘The Rangers’ and RIFC would simply take Ibrox, Murray Park, and the car park. I was discussing this with my brother and he reckoned that at the recent AGM the annual accounts would need to show these as borrowings from RIFC. Does anyone know if this would be correct?
———
This appears in the RIFC Company Balance Sheet (p25 of the Accounts) as ‘Amounts due from subsidiary undertakings’ of £16.163m. Note 15 on p59 explains that the “Amounts due to RIFC from The Rangers Football Club Ltd represents the proceeds of the Initial Public Offering less costs incurred in the fundraising. The net funds from this activity have been made available to the subsidiary as working capital.”
=================================================
I have little accountancy knowledge but a few of things that arise are: As the TRFCL and RIFC accounts are ‘consolidated’ does that affect anything.
Similarly, there was the revaluation of the property apparently owned by TRFCL viz Ibrox and MP which appeasred in the accounts. Could they be written back-down to facilitate the facade of a transfer to discharge debts. On that theme there is the subsequent addition of the Albion and Edmoston House – have they too been subject to a massive lift in valuation from the original purchase price?
In any case I am not that sure that RIFC has to provide that much of a fig-leaf to justify any transfer of property from TRFCL to RIFC. TRFCL is a private company with, allegedly, 100% of the shareholding held by RIFC. So if the TRFCL directors simply vote for the transfer then that’s it done and all it takes is a speedy board meeting to do so.
bobferris says:
February 2, 2014 at 11:10 am
……………………………………..
Sadly Bob…it is the media portrait of individuals that creates in many cases a false impression.
As an example Gordon Strachan was one of the nicest people I met in professional football in England….I won’t name anyone at the opposite end of the spectrum…but I can assure you there are some well known dislikable individuals because of their behaviour…I never hated anyone…just accepted they are what they are.
Never met Neil so I have no idea how he is as a person….but I can see no reason to hate the man.
When he played…he would react…we can all remember him playing at Ibrox and reacting to the crowd in a playful way when Celtic had won….when he became manager…and he then goes for a drink in byers road Glasgow…which provokes the ..’he brings it on himself’…brigade try to justify why he was attacked…yes he should have realised that was not the best place to go…because you cannot legislate for morons who go drinking in the same place….
If I go to a place where I am aware there could be bother then I only have myself to blame for going there knowing what might happen…and that I believe is where the ‘he brings it on himself’…brigade stems from…however it appears to have morphed into some sort of justification statement for the man to be hated at every opportunity..
It is an appalling position for a so called civilised society in the 21st century.
tearsofjoy says:
February 2, 2014 at 11:27 am
…………………………………….
I assume you are referring to Alan Shearer giving Neil a deliberate full bloodied kick to the head when Neil was lying on the ground?
Most professionals would see that as a cowards attack.
So is there another incident you are referring to?
tearsofjoy says:
February 2, 2014 at 11:27 am
5
9
pepperami says:
February 1, 2014 at 10:57 pm
Lennon is a very unpopular guy because of what he did in his playing days (Leicester City/Alan Shearer anyone ?). ………………………..
===================================================================
I seem to remember that he received a deliberate and full blooded boot in the face from the Shearer. I do not think that was relevant to yesterday’s events and doesn’t support the thrust of your post.
=========================
Edited to say that I hadn’t seen Paulmac’s post before i posted mine.
tearsofjoy says:
February 2, 2014 at 11:27 am
5 13 Rate This
_________________________________________________________
Leicester City/Alan Shearer!!!! Dear Lord.
FYI Neil Lennon was kicked in the face by Alan Shearer while lying on the ground. He later gave evidence on Shearer’s behalf at an FA tribunal.
And that’s why he’s despised!!!
mirrenman says:
February 2, 2014 at 11:30 am
I put these points to a TRFC fan ( who I regard as one of the more intelligent ones ) and his reply was…..
..” it makes no difference. Dunno why you seem to think this is an issue. Shares are held in RIFC plc, so ownership of assets would remain the same even if shifted to that company. Issue would be regarding football licence etc if you’re talking about admin etc, but that would always be an issue anyway
😯 Anyone want to deconstruct this.
==========================================
I think the main difference will be that RIFC becomes a property holding company which makes its money from selling or leasing Ibrox Stadium and that whatever operating company is ‘The Newest Rangers’ will either have additional running costs to pay rental or – worst case scenario for most Bears – Ibrox will be punted for non-football development sooner or later dependant on the Spiv timetable.
Murray Park will also be punted in either of the above scenarios and this might have an effect on producing home-grown youngsters with the consequent expense of buying-in outsiders.
Shooperb says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:20 am
However, there is a danger that any negative comment about Lennon can be construed along the lines of the above. For my part, I don’t particularly like him, but that’s more to do with his ungracious manner when his team loses, and his sense of victimhood if key decisions don’t go Celtic’s way.
==================================
I take it you pay no attention to other managers. Jackie McNamara for example, has been so ungracious in defeat so often this season he is becoming totally predictable.
‘RANGERS are at the centre of a financial cover-up investigation over claims the club will be broke within two weeks.
‘The stock exchange inquiry was launched after an Ibrox official is alleged to have forecast they would run out of cash by mid-February.’
==============================================================
Why doesn’t it surprise me that Stockbridge got it wrong again with his figures. But his departure timing was impeccable and would put Swiss Railways to shame 😆
Re Neil Lennon (again). A SPL match Referee I spoke to recently through business told me that in terms of Managers who are difficult to deal with, N.L is way down the list. Let the myth continue nonetheless.
Lennon is a very unpopular guy because of what he did in his playing days (Leicester City/Alan Shearer anyone ?)
===============================
Are you referring to Alan Shearer kicking Neil Lennon’s head?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPp0teYYi70
In the words of the English commentator … “That was atrocious by the England Captain”
Let’s not mention the Newcastle player lifting his legs off the park whilst he was being treated for the assault, oh look I just did.
Or are you referring to a different incident, which you think might paint Neil Lennon in a bad light.
Right guys, I’m off to the Celtic v St Mirren game. I hope on return the forum has settled down a bit. Newspaper report today the club from Ibrox may be skint in a fortnight, which also aligns to Phi McG latest blog. Let’s get the focus on whatever rule bending and breaking the SFA, SPFL, and maybe even the Government have planned. IF they are indeed about to hit the skids financially, you can guarantee they will all already know. After all, they got 4 months warning the last time, and said hee-haw!
Just wanted to comment on the appalling treatment of Lennon yesterday.
I think its disgusting and cowardly for people to hide in the safety of a crowd while dealing out such vile hatred.
I hope that the police can apprehend the people culpable and they are made an example of and I fully expect the clubs and fans groups to make every effort to support the identification and punishment of these idiots.
On a related note, there seem to be have been more of these incidents this year than I can recall for a while and all clubs seem to have similar problems lurking within the people coming along to watch the games. As fans of various clubs have come on this blog and expressed sadness and even apologised for the behaviour of “their” fans I’ve come realise that we would do well to not judge any club or its fans by the actions of some individuals within the supporter base.
Its worth keeping in mind that fans congregate to support their team, that’s quite possibly the ONLY thing some fans will have in common with other fans of the same club.
I don’t believe groups of football supporters necessarily have any shared idealogy, politics, religion, prejudice etc. Realising that I try not to judge fans of any team as a collective or collectively expressing the same views, feelings, opinions.
Something worth keeping in mind if fans of your own club or other clubs misbehave. instead of falling into the trap of tarring all fans of a club in the same way, the idiots must be singled out from the crowd, punished and banned from attending games. Innocent bystanders within the crowd shouldn’t be assumed to harbor the same sort of vitriol and should get our support in routing out the culpable.
With that thinking I’ve now had to review how I feel about the Rangers support and remind myself they are all individuals with one principle thing in common: supporting the same football club.
I can’t hold all Rangers fans responsible for the disgusting behaviour of others, anymore than I want people to hold all Aberdeen fans responsible for the behaviour of a few yesterday, or all Celtic fans held responsible for some idiots at Motherwell earlier this season.
All that sort of thinking (to “tar all fans with the same brush”) would do is stoke the division and resentment between fans – the opposite of what we really want and need for our game to flourish.
In any case I am not that sure that RIFC has to provide that much of a fig-leaf to justify any transfer of property from TRFCL to RIFC. TRFCL is a private company with, allegedly, 100% of the shareholding held by RIFC. So if the TRFCL directors simply vote for the transfer then that’s it done and all it takes is a speedy board meeting to do so.
==============================
Would doing it very close to an administration of the subsidiary (if such happens) not leave them open to accusations of gratuitous alienation.
Though that would only really be an issue if other creditors (such as they may be) were somehow to lose out. If there are any other creditors and they receive payment in full then why would it be a problem for anyone.
So an olive branch rather than a fig leaf may be what is required.
neepheid says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:26 am
TRFC Ltd, on the other hand, looks extremely likely to experience an insolvency event. By now, it must owe RIFC PLC over £25m, having taken all of the IPO money and squandered it. TRFC has contracts to fulfil and bills to pay. At this time of year, it relies almost entirely on RIFC for the cash to meet its commitments. When RIFC finally runs out of cash, then it is TRFC that can’t pay the wages or the bills. At that point, TRFC will have to be put into administration.
——-
It doesn’t alter your main point about impending TRFC administration, but I don’t think RIFC is providing cash to TRFC on a regular basis. Instead, following the IPO, it seems all the net proceeds were immediately loaned to TRFC, who have been depleting this cash pile ever since.
As I said earlier, the RIFC Company Balance Sheet (p25 of the Accounts) shows ‘Amounts due from subsidiary undertakings’ of £16.163m. Note 15 on p39 of the Accounts explains that the “Amounts due to RIFC from The Rangers Football Club Ltd represents the proceeds of the Initial Public Offering less costs incurred in the fundraising. The net funds from this activity have been made available to the subsidiary as working capital.”
This suggests:
• RIFC doesn’t itself have any cash (there is none shown on its balance sheet – so all group cash is in the subsidiaries, principally TRFC);
• The debt from TRFC to RIFC is static, at just over £16m. (In any case, it can’t have reached £25m, as RIFC have never had as much as £25m, even after the IPO.)
However, I don’t think this makes any practical difference to the future scenario painted by neepheid.
On financial matters , a ‘leaked Sale & Leaseback’ agreement from CQN in Oct 2012 , perhaps provides the order of magnitude of potential finance available to Rangers:
” ….. The purchase price for all three assets is £7.285m. In addition to this there is a £6.9m loan provision with 15% interest payable monthly (£985.5k annually). Initial rent for all three properties is £1.8m. The 20-year lease provides for upwards-only reviews every five years by either 2% p.a. or RPI, whatever is greater (so assuming RPI is less than 2% each year, after five years, rent would be £1.987m).
Annual costs for rent and interest would be £2.835m. Current season ticket sales are reported to be approximately 36,000 with a standard adult price of £286, income net of vat will be around £8.5m
….”
Seems to me that if the above is anywhere near the mark then the much vaunted Sale & Leaseback will not fill the financial black-hole that is Rangers …………
If the assets are moved then presumably that means the institutional investors will need to at least think twice, other than providing loans at eye-wateringly high interest rates ……..
Still., all guess work but the fat lady has called for a glass of water ….
A wee thought on CW’s claims over Sevco 5088 and how much he might actually be looking for/get.
PMGB has pointed out that a court action would be unlikely to succeed, but that TRFC/RIFC might be glad to settle just to get rid of him. Ticketus, on the other hand, are looking for £17m+, from CW. We, I think, are generally of the belief that the bold Craigy doesn’t have a huge amount of cash, or at least not mega millions, but will have a tidy wee sum in untraceable accounts. Ticketus are unlikely to receive much, if any, of the money owed to them, but I would imagine the worst that could happen to the bad boy is for him to be declared bankrupt (unless his actions could be considered criminal). So, CW has a tidy wee sum already salted away in some dodgy tax haven, he then adds to it with, say, £500,000 shut up money from the directors of TRFC/RIFC, and goes off to a comfortable lifestyle in some warm wee country.
Ticketus get Craigie’d, TRFC get Craigie’d, and Cragie gets Craigie’d – by some gorgeous blond beside a private pool in the sun 😳
BigGav says:
———————————–
Very good point.
So you reckon that RIFC gave what was left of the IPO money after costs (that makes sense from the parts you quoted) to the club and that totaled just over £16m.
The club have been using whatever they have earned subsequent to June 2013 (season tickets etc) to trade, then have eaten into the c£16m as required.
One thing though, I imagine that the PLC will have been charging the club fees and interest from June 2013. So the £16m is unlikely to still be that amount.
Interesting comment from the Darkside on the SUN financial meltdown story:
‘These daft pieces could be helpful. Lets just fill the comments section of them all with barrages of posts about the land deals.’
For me it reinforces just how big a PR squirrel the Land Deals have been turned into purely to deflect the Bears as the tea chests are filled with the contents of the Trophy Room at Ibrox. Everything else of value being long gone it appears.
The Bears in general this morning are taking great comfort from the, now doubt also PR inspired deflection, that if Rangers were truly in dire straits financially that they would have snapped-up the £900k on offer for Wallace.
Seems a fair point at least superficially. But given that if a genuine offer was actually made it is unlikely to have amounted to more than £500k up-front.
Perhaps however it was recognised that even £500k wasn’t enough to actually make a ha’penny worth of difference to rescuing Rangers from the Ibrox Black Hole. However it’s heartening to see how many Bears say that Stockbridge said it would be April before the money was on the verge of running out. Seems departure has made the Bear hearts more fond of the Ibrox videoman and given more confidence in his ability to correctly count above ten without removing the brogues 🙄
It is with some incredulity that I read opinons on here that some eejits abusing Neil Lennon is somehow an obviously sectarian thing, Aberdeen fans sing sectarian songs at Parkhead, etc.
This is utter nonsense. We do not care whether you are Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical or Satanist. The only sectarian nonsense in the NE is perpetuated by pretendy Old Firm (I know, but I can’t be bothered anymore) fans who really have little idea what they’re talking about. The rest of us find it all rather a quaint anachronism and utterly irrelevant to modern life.
We just don’t care.
People chucking coins at other people are simply low-lifes. Gobbing on people is a disgusting idiocy. It has nothing to do with the different sects of a religion.
BigGav says:
February 2, 2014 at 12:27 pm
==========================
A good point, and I stand corrected. I hadn’t really noticed before that all the cash was in TRFC’s bank account at 30 June. So as you say, the amount owed to RIFC will remain at £16m (plus any interest charged) , until the cash runs out or more is put in. Still, I’m sure a valuer can be found who will value the properties at or below £16m, especially since they were allegedly sold on the open market for less than half that 18 months ago.
The attacks on Lennon are racist and sectarian in origin [].
The SMSM chose to portray Neil Lennon as a typical hot tempered red headed northern Irish catholic who snarled and growled – as a lazy racial stereotype.
This is actually analogous to the treatment of Andy Murray as a dour taciturn Scot somehow alien and not to be trusted.
With the SMSM however the stereotyping has been more vicious, more sustained and has had much more serious consequences. Another appaling indictment of our truly disgusting destructive and hopefully terminally diseased press corp.
I for one would be quite happy to see a Scotland devoid of its present national press – en masse!
I waited till today to comment on what Neil Lennon had to endure yesterday as yesterday I was totally outraged and if commented on it my post would have been removed. Still outraged by Mr Spiers predictable (he brings it on himself approach) which is the acceptable answer we have to seem to accept in relation to Mr Lennon from our media. The smsm never give a balanced view in relation to anything Neil does and again we accept this somehow. Neil will at some point do what the talk the talk press want in this country and that is to go away and ply his trade in another country and Scotland may lose one of it’s promising young managers. The problem will remain as like a club I recall from the past which was classed as the fabric of our society, Is this treatment of Neil part of the ethos that is the fabric of our society with no repercussions?. This would be reported and dealt with differently to any other manager in any country in Europe if they were subjected to what Neil has suffered (and not to forget his treatment as a player) but over his tenure at Celtic. We as a nation pride our self as open to any culture or race. Maybe we should add unless of course you are a blank blank.
If you can fill in the 2 blank words (which I imagine you all can) then why can we seem to not talk about it.
Shame on our country’s not so hidden shame.
ecobhoy says:
=====================
Since you are doing the sums anyway.
Sale of a football players registration (to another UK club) is a taxable supply for VAT purposes. So if it was £900k offered the VAT on that is £150k
In addition I would expect there to be some sort of agent’s fees, administration charges etc, so for gits and shiggles let’s assume 10% of the gross, that would be £90k.
So of the £900k the club would really only be getting something like £660k.
If as you suspect only a proportion of that is up-front then we really are talking about a lot less than the original £900k quoted.
Angus1983 says:
February 2, 2014 at 12:46 pm
blackjacque says:
February 2, 2014 at 11:22 am
I have never really believed Phil Macs assertions that anti Irish/ Catholic feelings were rife in Scotland
——
They’re not.
=========================
Must be down to healthy football rivalry then
Any detailed discussion on the particular subject would be OT for this Blog IMO and considering the news coming out of Ibrox could easily be regarded as deflectionary. I also tend to think that anyone with specific issues with Phil’s beliefs would be well-advised to raise them on Phil’s site and I’m sure he will reply appropriately.
neepheid says:
=========================
Thinking about it, it actually makes more sense to give them the money up-front, rather than on the drip. Especially if you know they are going to use it all.
That way you are charging interest all along and on the full amount. Rather than the amount gradually increasing. If they only started giving the subsidiary money as required then they would have had all of the season ticket money etc to spend before they had to borrow from the PLC.
With the amounts of money involved, the period of time and the likely rates that would have fairly added up.
ecobhoy says:
February 2, 2014 at 12:11 pm
‘RANGERS are at the centre of a financial cover-up investigation over claims the club will be broke within two weeks.
‘The stock exchange inquiry was launched after an Ibrox official is alleged to have forecast they would run out of cash by mid-February.’
==============================================================
Why doesn’t it surprise me that Stockbridge got it wrong again with his figures. But his departure timing was impeccable and would put Swiss Railways to shame 😆
___________________________________________________________________________________
My information (from a source close to both RIFC and TBKs) is that the Sun story – as far as it pertains to the admin in a fortnight – is a squirrel.
Same source, backed up by a director of an English premiership side, confirms that the Wallace walking away story is a ‘nonsense’ of the “how do you prove a negative?” variety.
Sources of course are neither oracles nor agenda free, and I have no way of knowing how accurate mine is/are, however my own judgement is based on trust, and on that basis I would take this information all the way to the bank or bookmakers.
Same sources have consistently been of the view that there will be no admin event and that TRFC will limp onwards and upwards until they eventually reach the top league. They also believe that that even if half of the bears desert as a consequence of the team’s inability to achieve instant success at the top, they will still be a significant financial force compared to everyone except Celtic.
I post this mainly because other information out there, as often happens, is already being presented as fact. I think at least we should keep in mind that the opposing stories, whichever one we subscribe to, are still at the theory stage. As a community we are usually circumspect in these matters.
Allyjambo says:
February 2, 2014 at 12:39 pm
Ticketus get Craigie’d, TRFC get Craigie’d, and Cragie gets Craigie’d – by some gorgeous blond beside a private pool in the sun 😳
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WOT ❓ Only One ❗ Hardly seems worth all the effort and aggro he’s been through 😛
They also believe that that even if half of the bears desert as a consequence of the team’s inability to achieve instant success at the top, they will still be a significant financial force compared to everyone except Celtic.
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That may be true, though I doubt it. However if it is then they will be at best a pale imitation of the club which cheated it’s way to “success” for many years.
The income from Season tickets, matchday tickets and hospitality was £13m. If we adjust that upwards by 50% to get to premiership prices we get around £20m. However if we then half it as your source suggests then it goes back down to £10m.
That’s a loss on current turnover of £3m. That’s assuming merchandising, matchday sales etc stay the same.
I realise that they will get increased TV, sponsorship, prize money in the top league, however that will only make up the £3m difference. So basically they would be working on the same turnover as now, ball park.
Two points
1, That would mean the same level of squad as now, at best.
2, They are losing about £12m a year on the current model.
It doesn’t work, unless I have my sums way wrong.
Angus
Satanists are ok? 🙂
Paulmac2 says:
February 2, 2014 at 11:52 am
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tearsofjoy says:
February 2, 2014 at 11:27 am
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I assume you are referring to Alan Shearer giving Neil a deliberate full bloodied kick to the head when Neil was lying on the ground?
Most professionals would see that as a cowards attack.
So is there another incident you are referring to?
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I have to say – as a fan of Newcastle – Shearer was a gentleman on the telly but completely lairy off it. The extent and consistency of this is something that you would only sense from attending live games, it wasn’t readily apparent from TV coverage.
In terms of needling opponents – on or off the ball- this was a significant element of his stock in trade. And he knew exactly where the line that should not be crossed was, and his policy seemed to be to stay firmly up to the line as opposed to the right side of it.
And he was not averse to stepping across it whenever he was confident he could get away with it. Needling and nasty for sure, but not actually violent. Whilst he was a dirtly little so and so, he was never ever guilty of the kind of career limiting incidents or injurious tackles that characterised those who shared his atitude but not his talent. And he would never ever lose his temper. It was all mind games.
In my view – this incident with Lennon was certainly, deliberate, and calculated by Shearer to intimidate Lennon without causing him serious injury, while looking like an accidental step over. Shearers intent was undoubtedly to both provoke and intimidate Lennon: either into a response that would get Lennon red carded – whether immediately or subsequently as revenge, or else to ensure that he had a quiet game for the rest of the afternoon and would stand back a yard or two.
” I could have kicked your head into row z, but didn’t!. Next time I might” was the message being sent.
Whilst Shearer normally stopped short of kicking peoples heads to send opponents such messages, I get the impression he nevertheless liked them to know that the treatment table was always an option in consideration.
Shearer deserved a straight red for this incident as with so many others.
And a less skilful operator wouild certainly have got one.
Think of him as sort of like an Ian Black, but with some talent and composure.
Any chance of a bonkers “Neil Lennon: Sectarian or Personal?” thread being set up?
Yes it’s touching on important issues but it’s doing my godless head in and threatening to consume the entire blog.
TD’s care of the usual address please.
The abuse Neil Lennon took yesterday is just wrong, should be dealt with by the authorities ( I won’t hold my breat though) no debate required no-one should be subject to this kind of treatment ….. End of…..
TSFM.
Phil MacGiollaBhain @Pmacgiollabhain 13m
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/sevco-in-february/#more-4348 …
For the avoidance of doubt:
I am very happy to stand behind the claims made in this piece