The Blind Men and the Elephant, a cautionary tale

ByTrisidium

The Blind Men and the Elephant, a cautionary tale

A Guest Blog for TSFM by beatipacificiscotia

As a child I read a poem by John Godfrey Saxe, “The Blind Men and the Elephant”, and stumbled upon it again recently.  It is a simple tale of how six blind men encounter an Elephant and attempt to describe the animal:

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a WALL!”

You get the idea.  The other blind men did little better.  The second grabbed the tusk and thought the elephant like a spear.  Others thought the elephant like a snake (the trunk), a tree (the leg), a fan (the ear), and finally a rope (the tail).  What does this have to do with this blog?  Let me explain.

There is a danger of all of us, whether consciously or unconsciously, making the same mistake as these blind gentleman.  It is too easy to use the parts of the argument that fit our values and belief system, at the expense of the whole truth.  The 13th century Jaina scholar, Mallisena, described a much earlier version of the same tale as a parable to argue that people deny various aspects of truth; deluded by the aspects they do understand, they deny the aspects they don’t understand.  He said:

“Due to extreme delusion produced on account of a partial viewpoint, the immature deny one aspect and try to establish another. This is the maxim of the blind (men) and the elephant.”

I am incapable of putting it any better than that, though I would go further.  I argue that people are deluded by the aspects that they choose to understand, and deny the aspects that they refuse to understand.  Which leads me to my tale …..

I have recently read a news report about a decision taken by the Advertising Standards Authority on advertising activities of The Rangers Football Club Ltd and their claims to history and honours.  It includes the following quote referring to advice from the SFA:

“We also consulted with the SFA, which confirmed that its definition of a football ‘club’ varied depending on context, and could sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner.”

I was most unhappy to read this part of the statement.  I am yet to see the definition or statement of when you could “sometimes refer to an entity separate from the club’s corporate owner”.  This is a contradiction to the definition of a football club given by FIFA; a definition which is handed down to the Confederations, and from Confederations to Associations. 

You may or may not be aware, the application of good governance in football is administered through club licensing.  This annual process ensures that minimum standards are maintained, to promote growth and development, and ultimately protects all of football – every club, every player and staff member, the integrity of every competition, suppliers of goods and services, the reputation of sponsors, and most of all the fans.  FIFA Club Licensing Regulations state that a license applicant must be a football club, defined as:

“Legal entity fully and solely responsible for the football team participating in national and international club competitions that applies for a licence.”

This is a clear and unambiguous definition, which is being ignored by the SFA.  Why is this issue so important?  Simply, a football club must be held responsible for its commercial activities.  For example, an over-ambitious and over-spending Rangers changed the Scottish football landscape forever.  Other clubs tried to compete in an unsustainable “Cold War”-like football arms race.  I believe Scottish football was damaged.  Many clubs have been taken to the brink of death.  This could happen in any country, in any league, anywhere in the world.  For that reason, a football club and its corporate body must be one and the same, living or dying, inseparably intertwined.  The separation of club and company is a myth, a myth dangerous to good governance.  Rangers (1872-2012) should be a cautionary tale told to every club owner.

There are many benefits to club licensing.  These including minimum standards for stadia and infrastructure, youth development programs, and much more.  I would heartily recommend that you read the FIFA document if you have the time. It gave birth to the word and spirit of Financial Fair Play.  Look at some of the financial benefits detailed:

 

10.3  Benefits

Implementation of the financial criteria will help deliver both short and long-term improvements for clubs, the licensors and the football family in general.  For the football family in general, the financial criteria should help to:

• safeguard the continuity and integrity of competitions;

• increase the transparency and credibility of clubs’ financial operations;

• improve confidence in the probity of the football industry;

• create a more attractive market for the game’s commercial partners and investors; and

• provide the basis for fair competition, because competition is not just about the teams on the pitch.

 

For the licensors, the financial criteria should help to:

• improve their understanding of the financial position and prospects of their member clubs;

• encourage clubs to settle liabilities to creditors on a timely basis;

• enhance transparency in the money flow of clubs;

• enhance their ability to be proactive in assisting clubs with financial issues; and

• provide a starting point for club benchmarking at a national level for those licensors and clubs who want to develop this aspect.

 

For the clubs, the financial criteria should help to:

• improve the standards and quality of financial management and planning activities;

• enable better management decision-making;

• enhance clubs’ financial and business credibility with stakeholders;

• improve financial stability; and

• enhance revenue-generating ability and cost management.

 

Important words, and I trust the value and opportunity these regulations offer are now clear.  Note bullet points 3 and 4, and that our top league currently does not have a sponsor.  The SFA must ensure the integrity of competitions, discourage financial recklessness, and protect football for everyone.  This is only possible with a clear, unambiguous statement that confirms club / company are one and the same thing.

To suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation is to undermine the definition of what is a football club, one of the cornerstones of FIFA Club Licensing Regulations.  For the SFA to suggest a football club can in some way survive liquidation, or allow this belief to go unchallenged, is a shameful dereliction of duty.  It puts all of football in danger.  We cannot allow this.  There is too much at stake.

The poem ends thus:
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

The blind men were each partially right, though in their vanity / stubbornness / ignorance they failed to find the truth.  There is a lesson for us all in this story.  This may appear to be an attempt to renew the old club / new club debate.  It is not.  To see this as an opportunity to score points against Rangers fans is to completely miss the point – you have failed to find the truth.

This is global issue affecting one of the fundamentals of good governance.  Good governance must be the beating heart of our game – ensuring good health and long life.  I am looking at the here and now, and ahead into the future. 

We must protect and promote ALL of the FIFA Club Licensing Regulations.  To deny any part is to refuse to see the whole elephant, like the foolish blind men.

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

1,867 Comments so far

TSFMPosted on1:59 pm - Feb 2, 2014


At the risk of being accused of backslapping, I awoke this morning to find that the blog had self-policed to a heart-warming extent (aided and abetted by the on-duty mod 🙂 ). John Clarke and AllyJambo in particular provided their usual wisdom on these matters and I am grateful for that (as I speak, Karma appears to have kicked in for AJ too!).

One poster from last evening let himself down badly and I think our Hearts supporting comrades are due a wholehearted apology. I hope that happens.

Whilst what happened at Tynecastle yesterday IS relevant to this blog, there is always a danger of a wild stampede to extrapolate the behaviour of a few neds to either deeper societal problems or the total denial of same.

As Ecobhoy says that is a conversation more suited to other places, and I am happy to see that the prevalent feeling on the blog is in line with that.

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AllyjamboPosted on2:02 pm - Feb 2, 2014


ecobhoy says:

February 2, 2014 at 1:17 pm

Ticketus get Craigie’d, TRFC get Craigie’d, and Cragie gets Craigie’d – by some gorgeous blond beside a private pool in the sun 😳
===============================================
WOT ❓ Only One ❗ Hardly seems worth all the effort and aggro he’s been through 😛
______________________

Ah, but I was factoring in the fact that Craigie’s fortune (if it exists) isn’t as large as ‘Off The Radar’ Jackson seemed to think. He’s hardly going to be pulling many gorgeous blonds using only his wit, charm and good looks, now is he? One, at a time, for him, I’d imagine. They come dear in exotic climes (so I’m led to believe 🙁 )

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AllyjamboPosted on2:11 pm - Feb 2, 2014


TSFM says:

February 2, 2014 at 1:59 pm

Thanks for the kind words, TSFM, but hope your ‘Karma’ reference means what I hope it means 😐 as I am at work with no access to the football at Easter Road but am recording it at home, where I’ll be by 3.30. So that my ‘match day experience’ isn’t ruined by finding out the score I’ll sign off now. Have a great day everyone 🙂

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andycoloPosted on2:32 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Allyjambo I share your puzzlement at what this particular incident had to do with Hearts. They simply provided the venue and the responsibility for stewarding and safety lay with the SFA. I also doubt whether there was any sectarian element to the attacks on Neil Lennon, just outrageous yobbery. Unfortunately the hooligan element of the Aberdeen support seems to have grown recently. Their behaviour at Celtic Park in November was appalling but drew little comment from the authorities or the SMSM. Seats not only destroyed but used as missiles into the family section and vile songs about “Going Home” and Jimmy Saville. Compare and contrast with the outrage when Celtic were at Motherwell. At least my club had the decency to condemn the damage caused by our support even if they missed the true culprits by blaming the Green Brigade.
As for tears of joy the Shearer incident has already been shown for what it was. It is worth noting however that it caused a rift with Ashley Cole among others arguing that Shearer should have been punished. The fact that he wasn’t was more to do with fear he would not play in that years world cup and was a shameful incident for the FA. It should not be forgotten that Neil Lennon appeared on Shearers behalf and that said a lot about the man. It is only when he played in Scotland that Neil Lennon was subjected to widespread abuse. To a certain extent this had an element of copycat about it. Neil Lennon turned out for Northern Ireland in a midweek and was booed by his own “supporters”. The following weekend he played in Dunfermline and was subjected to the same treatment. Go figure.

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redetinPosted on2:43 pm - Feb 2, 2014


As posted above, I first heard Chick Young mention the ill-treatment of Neil Lennon on Sportsound. I have to admit I would rarely accept Young’s version of events as the truth; corroboration, in his case, is essential.

So today, I heard on Radio Scotland of a report in one paper of abuse, spitting, coins and bottles thrown; “a hail of missiles”, says the Record. Well, again, I don’t necessarily believe everything I read in the Record.

Turning to my copy of the day’s Sunday Herald, what do we have? “Fans spat, threw coins and shouted insults”. So these fans were close enough to spit. What a few seats away, and the spitting didn’t affect the adjacent seats? I don’t know any supporter who would tolerate spitting by people beside them.

The Herald has Martin Reilly saying: “I’m absolutely raging about…the stewarding and the fans behaviour”. The BBC has it that: “Neil has complimented the way in which the situation was handled by stewarding staff at Tynecastle.”

Do we have anyone reading this blog who was anywhere near the events? In this case, the msm being thin on fact, corroboration is needed.

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loamfeetPosted on3:04 pm - Feb 2, 2014


I am reluctant to add my tuppence and drag the topic southwards, but at the same time I would hope that the participants and readers of this blog would have the courage to call things as they are. The idea that Lennon is reviled amongst a section of Scottish football fans because of an incident with Shearer almost two decades ago is laughable. The idea that he is hated because of his snarling demeanour – let’s not deconstruct the image and how it is portrayed by the media just yet – is also ridiculous.

There have been a long line of snarling managers in the Scottish game. Jeffries and Williamson come to mind. How many times have they been attacked? How many bottles thrown? Likewise there have been plenty of gobshites amongst the managerial fraternity. Consider Kenny Shiels, also from Northern Ireland and not one to back away from any proffered microphones. He has even mixed it with the SFA and wound up refs on more than one occasion. Yet he is not attacked in the street. No bottles are thrown.

Lennon is reviled by these people because he is a vocal, successful Irish Catholic public figure. His pugnacious character – gleefully inflated by the media – is used as an excuse to avoid naming that shameful truth. Radio Scotland shied away from it and chose to indulge in victim blaming. I hope that, collectively, we are a bit wiser than that.

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Flocculent ApoideaPosted on3:06 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Allyjambo says:
February 2, 2014 at 12:39 pm

Ticketus get Craigie’d, TRFC get Craigie’d, and Cragie gets Craigie’d – by some gorgeous blond beside a private pool in the sun

Am I wrong to hope it’s Joanna Lumley? Apologies to Mr & Mrs L.

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ecobhoyPosted on3:07 pm - Feb 2, 2014


TSFM says:
February 2, 2014 at 1:16 pm
ecobhoy says:
February 2, 2014 at 12:11 pm

‘RANGERS are at the centre of a financial cover-up investigation over claims the club will be broke within two weeks. The stock exchange inquiry was launched after an Ibrox official is alleged to have forecast they would run out of cash by mid-February.’
=====================================================
My information (from a source close to both RIFC and TBKs) is that the Sun story – as far as it pertains to the admin in a fortnight – is a squirrel. Same source, backed up by a director of an English premiership side, confirms that the Wallace walking away story is a ‘nonsense’ of the “how do you prove a negative?” variety.

Sources of course are neither oracles nor agenda free, and I have no way of knowing how accurate mine is/are, however my own judgement is based on trust, and on that basis I would take this information all the way to the bank or bookmakers. Same sources have consistently been of the view that there will be no admin event and that TRFC will limp onwards and upwards until they eventually reach the top league.
===========================================
As always time will tell. The SUN story might well be a squirrel but as I questioned earlier – to what end was it run? I also tend to take Wallace, and indeed anyone, at face value until I discover anything untoward about them or their connections.

I have no problem believing that Wallace isn’t a Spiv and doesn’t know what the Spiv plans actually are or even their timetable. I think an admin event can’t be dismissed because the pivotal investors in RIFC IMO aren’t there for the medium/long-haul and knowing there isn’t a chance of making real money from Rangers for a long long time.

I find it hard, given that inescapable fact, to see past the property sale/lease option and with the return to DK to Glasgow apparently in 7-10 days time then if he is going to make a move to lease Ibrox then that would be the time to do it. That has the added advantage of not having to stump-up £20-30 million to buy the Spivs out and put cash in their pockets which is an anathema to King for obvious reasons.

But I reckon the STs become critical in terms of timing because DK will want the cash from them and it would be a deal-breaker for him to wait until after the Spivs collect on that cash-cow.

So my best-guess scenario is King does the leasing deal very soon and TRFCL goes into admin with no waves to be replaced with a new operating company. I have no doubt this has already been trailed at Hampden and a handshake exchanged for the good of Scottish Football you understand 😆

The new operating company will then go for an early sale of STs with substantially hiked prices and the Bears will fight to hand over their cash with the assurance from King that the club and Ibrox has been saved by Rangers Men from the grasping hands of the Spivs. There will be another year of record-breaking crowds.

OK the football will be sh*te and a lot of players will have been off-loaded through the admin – not King’s fault of course. Yes and the road to the rightful place will take a bit longer but again not King’s fault. And the fans won’t lose their shares this time. As well as the cash from a full repairing lease there will need to be a repayment of the IPO dosh handed to TRFCL – I wonder what interest rate will be paid on that?

Of course once RIFC is no longer the parent company of a football club it will simply pass Res 10 and dilute everyone to the advantage of the Spivs and eventually quietly fold its tent, distribute the cash and move the property ownership offshore and enjoy the rental and loan repayments. They might even sell the property to a ‘real’ property company 😆

What then happens to Rangers – well the Spivs couldn’t care less as the only music they want to hear is the kerching of tills. In many ways it will be a victimless crime. Yip Rangers will limp-on and I haven’t a clue how long it will take for them to become a force in Scottish Football but I think there’s a fair chance that enough Bears will stick by them to power the financial engine.

They might die just through falling crowds because of the dire football and being beaten on a regular basis. But they might no. And all of that would be in the future and there are many ways – every year – to have a bumper ST sale.

And all the cuts at Ibrox – players and other staff and price increases on everything from STs to Bovril – isn’t the fault of the new Rangers owners but the Robber Spivs who were thrown down the marble staircase.

NB: The fans will remain convinced that nothing that has happened is Rangers fault and that the future of the Club is back in the safe, secure and dignified hands of the Real Rangers Men and saved from death by spivvery. The Bears will empty their piggy banks to ensure they get to their rightful place.

The SMSM has played its part well because the fans no longer care about things like what company actually owns anything – it’s enough for them to know and believe that Rangers will go on forever and will always be reincarnated 🙄

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SmugasPosted on3:21 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Sorry but I feel I have to come to Angus defence today. I have only been able to skim read today so if anything I say is factually incorrect I’ll apologise in advance now.

1/. I have yet to see evidence of spitting, coins or bottles. I do not doubt he was verbally abused and whilst not condoning it cannot say that such a situation surprises me either.

2/. I am extremely concerned at the timing of this, with what will otherwise be a cracking cup tie coming up. Most, in fact no I genuinely can qualify that, all opposition fans I share a pint prefer the visit to Celtic park than Ibrox. I’d hate to think that base elements in the media felt encouraged to ‘reinterpret’ that.

3/. Neil Lennon would have been singled out yesterday if he was Muslim, wee free or Sikh. As would ally, macnamara or any other manager who’s team had previously beaten Aberdeen.

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John ClarkPosted on3:24 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Aquinas says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:54 am
——-
I’ve just seen your post of 9.54 a.m,. Aquinas. Good for you.

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valentinesclownPosted on3:28 pm - Feb 2, 2014


If sevco go into administration will the sfa walk away and admit that their goal was to save fabric of society club at all costs?
Along the same lines will the smsm admit they have to bad press neil at all costs to appease fans of fabric of society?

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ianjsPosted on4:21 pm - Feb 2, 2014


From RM, The Bears Den.
E-petition. get Parliament to debate HMRC’s Leaks. 22/11/2012
May be old news now, but this failed due to lack of signatures 41,292.
A few teddies upset that 100,000 not reached. 👿
“Must have been because Gov. Don’t want a scandal etc etc”.

Not really, read the information supplied after EDIT: below.

Mailinator is a free online disposable email address as described below but if used in the manner described, any confirmation email sent back will disappear straight into the recipients Junk email marked as SPAM in the header, ok can’t top Mr Custard. 😀 Or be deleted by spam filter.
There is also a complaint that there had been no response but the link below shows that HRMC responded when the number of signatures reached 10.000! ❓
TBD:-
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/42143 Closing 22/11/2013 11:20
can admin pin this?
There has been a few of these petitions flying around but this is the official one submitted to HM Government & endorsed by Chris Graham on Twitter.
This petition must reach 100,000 signatures before the end date to be debated in parliment.
Can we have this pinned in the Bears Den – be sure to share on Facebook, Twittter, you know the score.
——————–
EDIT:
http://mailinator.com/ provides an instant, disposable email. When filling you the petition if you register the email as something like “mothersname@mailinator.com” – then visit http://mothersname.mailinator.com it will take you to that disposable inbox where you can access the confirmation email.
Therefore anyone who many not have an email account, or put off by having to confirm the emails – this offers a quick and handy solution. I’m also unsure if the T&C’s of the e-petition allows you ‘sign’ on behalf of someone else, such as a friend or family member, but if it does… Provided you know their address & postcode this would allow you to easily sign on behalf of someone else without needing access to their email inbox.
🙄

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Lord WobblyPosted on4:46 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Philmacgiollabhain @Philmacgiollabhain 3hrs ago

Just what did they discover when they rifled through Brian Stockbridge’s desk at Stalag Sevco?
#BillsAndThenMoreBillsAllUnpaidBills

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SmugasPosted on4:59 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Last thing I will hopefully say on the NL thing. Both posts come before mine this afternoon but due to mono digit typing skills I read neither before posting my own

Redetin @ 2.43. Absolutely but I’m the first to accept there’s rarely smoke without fire.

Loamfeet @ 3.04 If you absolutely truly believe your own post then I can genuinely say you thankfully inhabit a different part of Scotland to me.

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ianagainPosted on5:03 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Re previous 2 posts.

Surely you are not trying to tell me that:

A. There’s NOT thoosands an millians o them gers fans.

B.Someone at the Big Hoose failed to pay the ‘leccy bill – again? (There is usually a director ((or two)) who steps up to do that, from recent memory.

Must all be speculation shoorly

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ianagainPosted on5:24 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Maybe this is more convincing, seems very sure.

Phil MacGiollaBhain ‏@Pmacgiollabhain 4 hrs
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/sevco-in-february/#more-4348
For the avoidance of doubt:
I am very happy to stand behind the claims made in this piece.
#F&*ckedInFebruary

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ptd1978Posted on5:33 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Yesterday’s behaviour at Tynecastle as reported was totally unacceptable and I hope anyone spitting or throwing anything is arrested and prosecuted for it. Was it sectarian? We may never know unless someone got video of the whole thing on their phone, so to have so many here just blindly assuming there was a sectarian motivation is worrying.
There is no justification for spitting or throwing anything at anyone, but labelling someone with an -ism requires proof. The assumption of sectarianism here is the same kind of mistake Celtic fans are fighting against, contained in the SNP’s idiotic football violence law.
There is major cognitive dissonance too. All of a sudden Aberdeen fans as a body have gone from allies in the fight against corruption to idiots who believe the sh!te pedalled by the MSM.
Finally, I’m convinced that if McCoist had turned up, he would have caused a riot!

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SmugasPosted on6:01 pm - Feb 2, 2014


PTD

Here here, with a small edit, that in a weeks time the Aberdeen fans will be subject to the reaction to the sh!te pedalled in the media. And that’s still not to condone anyone throwing anything to be absolutely clear.

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ForresDeePosted on6:20 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Evening all,

So the cash at ibrox is running dry, what will happen?

Nothing. That’s right, nothing.

The cash may run dry, but I don’t think for a minute that it will all just suddenly grind to a halt at Edminston Drive. It will all be hidden, deals will be done, they will get cash in but at a cost to be paid later. No admin but some players will leave by ‘mutual consent to further their first team opportunities elsewhere’.

Police Scotland and the Ambulance Service will still turn up through the many establishment contacts and other creditors will have to wait; until the early bird season tickets go on sale mid march, once the league has been won.

We will then go through the same nonsense next season as they limp along, sevco will survive but individuals will have collars felt due to HMRC/BDO enquiries. It will also be armageddon for a few individuals when HMRC win the UTT and send out tax bills on those loans.

Edit to add: Forgot to mention CW – His bluff will be called and he will disappear again.

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ianagainPosted on6:23 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Word spreads fast in interweb these days.
Clipped from RR:
==========================================
02 Feb 2014 13:04:25
I have just been told that we have only 2 weeks money left and being investigated by the stock exchange. can anyone confirm this because if this is true administration is very real possibility. if we go into admin for a second time I’m afraid that’s it for me

Bigcol1872

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ianagainPosted on6:39 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Anyways well done the Dons and ICT. Hope its as good a final as I think it will be.

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ianagainPosted on6:48 pm - Feb 2, 2014


And the HAHAHA press?
this bollocks.
This %hit makes me weep

In the last 10 minutes

Wallace – Little Joy From Brechin Win Vital Football – Glasgow Rangers 18:27

In the last half-hour

Exciting Times For Youths Rangers FC – Official Site 18:20

In the last 4 hours

McCoist rues backline bans Football 365 15:19

The Truth About Lee Wallace Ibrox Noise 14:37

In the last 8 hours

Rumour Mill: Fraser Forster | Samaras | Rangers The Scotsman 12:12

Scottish League 1 wrap: Gers beat Brechin, debutants seal Pars win STV 12:10

Earlier today

Rangers 2 Brechin 1: Ally McCoist’s men are rampant in first-half but… Daily Record 10:18

Lee Wallace: I’m not leaving Ibrox until we’re back in top flight The Scottish Herald 09:48

Why Rangers’ Lee Wallace is one in a million Metro.co.uk 08:45

Rangers full-back Lee Wallace shrugs off last week’s transfer drama and reveals… Daily Record 07:58

Rangers 2 Brechin City 1: Victory beggars relief The Scottish Herald 03:17

Rangers 2-1 Brechin: Shiels and Daly strike as gers struggle to victory Daily Mail 00:42

Ally McCoist: Cup record is acid test for Rangers The Scotsman 00:35

Yesterday

Wallace committed to Gers BT Sport 22:57 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Goals: Rangers v Brechin Rangers FC – Official Site 22:00 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

R.O.L Rangers v Brechin match highlights Rangersonlineloyal.co.uk 21:03 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

R.O.L Rangers v Brechin man of the match vote Rangersonlineloyal.co.uk 20:33 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

We Need A Ruthless Streak Rangers FC – Official Site 19:03 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Wallace remains committed Sporting Life 18:58 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Red Card Was ‘Needless’ Rangers FC – Official Site 18:52 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Wallace committed to Rangers Sky Sports 18:50 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Lee Wallace delighted with Rangers stay Sports Mole 18:42 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Delighted To Retain Squad Rangers FC – Official Site 18:42 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

We Should Have Scored More Rangers FC – Official Site 18:32 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers 2-1 Brechin City: Ten-man Gers hold on The Scotsman 18:29 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Thrilled To Stay On Rangers FC – Official Site 18:22 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Stats: Rangers v Brechin Vital Football – Glasgow Rangers 18:17 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Ten-man Rangers hold on for victory BT Sport 17:53 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers hold off Brechin Sky Sports 17:37 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Gallery: Brechin City Rangers FC – Official Site 17:26 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers 2-1 Brechin: Gers hang on for win after Bilel Mohsni red card STV 17:25 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers 2 Brechin 1: ten-man Gers cling on to win The Scottish Herald 17:20 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers 2 Brechin 1 Sporting Life 16:03 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Team News: Lewis MacLeod ruled out of Brechin game Sports Mole 14:39 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers 2-1 Brechin City BBC 14:35 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers vs Brechin City Match Preview-Team Lineup DoTheBouncy (Weblog) 14:34 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Live: Rangers v Brechin City Rangers FC – Official Site 14:28 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers vs Brechin Match Preview-Team Lineup DoTheBouncy (Weblog) 14:24 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Temps In For Macleod Rangers FC – Official Site 14:08 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rumour Mill: Hibs signings | Celtic | Hearts The Scotsman 12:21 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Supporters Direct chief calls on Rangers fans to unite and steer club… Daily Record 08:28 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers boss Ally McCoist praises Lee Wallace for honouring his contract and… Daily Record 07:57 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Sports Hotline: The deadline-day arrival of Leigh Griffiths has divided the Celtic… Daily Record 07:57 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers boss has summer signings wishlist Glasgow Evening Times 07:12 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Ally McCoist says Rangers won’t take foot off the gas Glasgow Evening Times 07:12 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Mohsni takes the ban out of banter at Rangers Glasgow Evening Times 07:12 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers boss McCoist backs Wallace talk-ins Glasgow Evening Times 07:12 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Rangers to challenge Celtic in five years The Scottish Herald 03:35 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Angus anguish gives Rangers heebie-jeebies The Scottish Herald 03:16 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

Glenn Gibbons: Lee McCulloch fooling nobody The Scotsman 02:37 Sat, 01 Feb 2014

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Lord WobblyPosted on6:58 pm - Feb 2, 2014


As is so often the case, Neil Lennon is the voice of reason:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/neil-lennon-fans-abuse-was-drunken-not-sectarian-1-3291647

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ecobhoyPosted on7:05 pm - Feb 2, 2014


ptd1978 says:
February 2, 2014 at 5:33 pm

Yesterday’s behaviour at Tynecastle as reported was totally unacceptable and I hope anyone spitting or throwing anything is arrested and prosecuted for it. Was it sectarian? We may never know unless someone got video of the whole thing on their phone, so to have so many here just blindly assuming there was a sectarian motivation is worrying.
===============================================
There have been a number of posts on this issue and as I have said earlier I don’t think the detail of the sectarian issue is one that should be discussed here. However it is worth remembering that it’s quite possible that the Aberdeen fans weren’t driven because they were sectarian.

What IMO might have been driving them was they also had become victims of the dehumanisation tactics of a lot of online Bears towards Lennon with the tacit approval of the SMSM. No matter the ‘ism’ the first objective of those propagating it is to dehumanise the target and instill hatred towards that person or belief or whatever.

Once that’s happened then it becomes easy to attackand villify the person identified even though you might never consider yourself sectarian or racist in a million years. I

That certainly appears to have worked with some Aberdeen supporters and for those that say it’s something that could happen to any manager whose team has beaten Aberdeen. Really? What a disservice to the many proud Aberdeen fans who will be disgusted at this minority who have shamed the club which they have no right to call themselves supporters of.

@ Smugas said it wouldn’t matter if Neil Lennon was a Muslim, Sikh or wee free manager as he would have got the same. Not sure about the wee free one but I would bet that if he was a Sikh or Muslim then the perpetrators might have been more careful because they might have ended up on a racism charge with a hefty jail sentence. Going back to my original argument it would appear that the fans are well aware it’s OK to have an open season on Neil.

Some posters seem to doubt if anything actually happened. Like them I wasn’t there so don’t have first-hand evidence but I have seen the full apology from Aberdeen and the clear intention to deal with those responsible and asking other fans for into. I genuinely don’t think Aberdeen would be going to those lengths unless something relatively serious happened.

I wasn’t happy with Lennon when he was made manager as I didn’t think he had the required experience. He has proved to be a quick learner 😆 But I have always admired his humour, wit and mental ability and the fact that he seems capable of fairly deep rational thinking. He also, as far as I can see, is a credit to his club when a player and now as manager and, indeed, the sh*t he put up with to play for his country which is Northern Ireland is a real measure of the calibre of the man.

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ecobhoyPosted on7:23 pm - Feb 2, 2014


ianjs says:
February 2, 2014 at 4:21 pm

Ian – I exposed their petition scam back in December 2012. The House of Commons picked it up and investigated and changed their procedures. Up until that point I think, from memory, they had collected about 36k sigs in a few weeks out of a required 100k to have the possibility of a debate in the HoC.

After the HoC IT department looked at the cheating they only added about another 6k sigs in a further 11 months 😆

What a bunch – they just can stop cheating ❗

My original post is worth a read and is at: http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/12/03/government-probes-rangers-hmrc-e-petition-by-ecojon/

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on7:33 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Lord Wobbly says:
February 2, 2014 at 6:58 pm

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As is so often the case, Neil Lennon is the voice of reason:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/neil-lennon-fans-abuse-was-drunken-not-sectarian-1-3291647

___________________________________

I think Lennon’s response was statesmanlike.
And I think Neil Doncaster’s apology to him was also a very welcome and enouraging aspect.

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ianagainPosted on7:37 pm - Feb 2, 2014


ecobhoy says:

February 2, 2014 at 7:23 pm

ianjs says:
February 2, 2014 at 4:21 pm

Ian – I exposed their petition scam back in December 2012. The House of Commons picked it up and investigated and changed their procedures. Up until that point I think, from memory, they had collected about 36k sigs in a few weeks out of a required 100k to have the possibility of a debate in the HoC.
————————————————————————————————————————————–
Yes Eco
Somehow the “fraternity” keeps coming up short on numbers:
Supporters sort of 450000 short.
Shareholders similar.
They try and try but somehow the half million never ever seem to show.

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on7:54 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Lord Wobbly says:
February 2, 2014 at 6:58 pm

And there we have it, Radio Scotland’s house jester stirs the nation into a frenzy, a jester who has always had an issue with AFC, particularly when we are doing well, and then Mr Lennon comes out and tells it how it is.

Fair play to you Mr Lennon.

A good friend of mine was also at the game. Just told me today that at each goal he was showered in whisky, lager and other liquids. He was delighted it was raining on his way out of the ground 😀

Back to important matters though. Last week a new neighbour moved in beside me. I met him this afternoon whilst he was washing his motor, a Porsche. Anyway, we get on to fitba and I asked him who he supported. Rangers he said rather sheepishly. Obviously I started laughing, “you’re not a hoopy?” he asks. “Certainly not” I reply “Aberdeen are my team, hence my good humour”. Anyway to make sure he knew exactly where he stood in his new environment my closing remark was ” perhaps you should sell your motor to help support your club. Sevco are f*****d in February”

Thanks for that magnificent quote Phil. One I intend to use quite often this week 🙂

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John ClarkPosted on8:08 pm - Feb 2, 2014


rougvielovesthejungle says:
February 2, 2014 at 7:54 pm
‘… I asked him who he supported. Rangers he said rather sheepishly…’
————–
I will refrain from any comment whatsoever! 🙂 , on the grounds that you wrote that deliberately! You did, didn’t you?

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valentinesclownPosted on8:12 pm - Feb 2, 2014


ianagain says:
February 2, 2014 at 6:39 pm
16 0 Rate This

Anyways well done the Dons and ICT. Hope its as good a final as I think it will be.

——————————————————————————————————
I agree. Wonder where final will be held Mr Ogilvie.

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ianagainPosted on8:14 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Not a well respected stock by any means.
I truly think CW would have done better.
52 Week High
85.50
52 Week High Date
4-FEB-2013

52 Week Low
24.00
52 Week Low Date
14-JAN-2014

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Danish PastryPosted on8:24 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Resin_lab_dog says:
February 2, 2014 at 7:33 pm
4 1 Rate This

Lord Wobbly says:
February 2, 2014 at 6:58 pm

As is so often the case, Neil Lennon is the voice of reason:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/neil-lennon-fans-abuse-was-drunken-not-sectarian-1-3291647
___________________________________

I think Lennon’s response was statesmanlike.
And I think Neil Doncaster’s apology to him was also a very welcome and enouraging aspect.
————

Good article and well done NL for defusing the incident with his comments. On the one hand, it’s a relief that the sectarian element has not been prominent and Doncaster speaking out so promptly; but on the other, a horrible incident that’s apparently affected several others too.

How’s the argument for allowing booze back into football grounds looking now?

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ianagainPosted on8:25 pm - Feb 2, 2014


I note the lights are still RED

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valentinesclownPosted on8:26 pm - Feb 2, 2014


From NLarticle in the Scotsman

In 2008, Lennon was treated in hospital after being attacked hours after an Old Firm game. Two Rangers fans were later jailed for two years each.

A package of bullets addressed to Lennon was intercepted at a sorting office in Country Antrim, in 2011.

Two men were jailed for five years in 2012 for sending Lennon parcel bombs

______________________________________________________—-

Is this a world record. Only in Scotland.
What is it going to take to protect this man?.

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SmugasPosted on8:33 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Eco, as per your own modus operandi since you particularly name me I’ll give you the courtesy of a reply.

I agree with you 100% on the dehumanisation theory. It is all too prevalent particularly in football. The best example I can give was a friendly I attended where Robbie savage was playing. Cue lots of abuse about a combination of his Hardman image and his hair. One fundamental flaw in their stance though. He was by far and away the best player on the park, owning his opposition to quote my son.

But to dehumanise, abhorrent though that is, is NOT to be sectarian. I have done a little surfing this pm and seen it written, with my agreement, that had McCoist been there the reaction would have been worse. I honestly believe, and I specifically cited one post this afternoon that that will come as a disappointment to some on this blog.

My last say on the matter since its derailing the blog at an interesting juncture. I also notice that lennon has clarified today and credit to the man for that. i look forward to similar u turns in the MSM tomorrow.

Enough now.

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ianagainPosted on8:33 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Is it a possibility that Brian paid Craigy off before he left?
I mean really would he have had that authority to sign that size of cheque?
Just a wild guess.

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upthehoopsPosted on8:45 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Anyone else think the SPFL are about to throw some money towards Ibrox by giving the League Cup final to the stadium? This would of course add to the two guaranteed Scottish Cup semi finals already awarded – just how much is given out in ground rent for these occasions? Unfortunately there is not a decent sized stadium in the north of the country which would have been ideal. Celtic could of course offer the SPFL Celtic Park for free as a goodwill gesture! 🙂

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upthehoopsPosted on8:54 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Danish Pastry says:
February 2, 2014 at 8:24 pm

How’s the argument for allowing booze back into football grounds looking now?
================================
As one who vividly remembers the days booze was allowed I hope there is never a u-turn on the current ruling. Surely it is not beyond people to be able to attend a match and do without a drink for a relatively short period. Into the bargain the cost would be excessive. I was in a pre-match pay bar lounge at Celtic Park a few weeks ago, and pints were £3.80 to £4.20. It is the same in the club run Kerrydale Bar at the ground which is open to fans before and after the game. Re-introducing drink in all areas of the ground would be a significant earner, but surely the comfort and safety of fans is more important.

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ianagainPosted on8:56 pm - Feb 2, 2014


upthehoops says:

February 2, 2014 at 8:45 pm

Anyone else think the SPFL are about to throw some money towards Ibrox by giving the League Cup final to the stadium? This would of course add to the two guaranteed Scottish Cup semi finals already awarded – just how much is given out in ground rent for these occasions? Unfortunately there is not a decent sized stadium in the north of the country which would have been ideal. Celtic could of course offer the SPFL Celtic Park for free as a goodwill gesture
________________________________
In Englandshire so not up to speed.
Are you telling me its not known yet where it will be?
I sat last December (2012) with the world cup guys working out the rail transport for the rugby. This is just unbelievable.

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ianjsPosted on8:57 pm - Feb 2, 2014


ecobhoy says:
February 2, 2014 at 7:23 pm
Ian – I exposed their petition scam back in December 2012 The House of Commons picked it up and investigated and changed their procedures.
Eco well played. 😀
Just think, all that effort from December 2012 to November 2013 and going nowhere fast.
One theory, held by the psychologist Lawrence Kohlberg, showed that
“cheating is governed by our moral development: the more advanced we are, the less likely we are to cheat. According to Kohlberg, we pass through six stages as we grow older, during which we become progressively less egotistical and more practiced at reasoning through the problems of morality. With each step in development, we become less likely to cheat. Cheating, in other words, is the result of a lack of moral fortitude and education.”
Stage 1 and stuck ❓

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Paulmac2Posted on9:10 pm - Feb 2, 2014


upthehoops says:
February 2, 2014 at 8:45 pm
……………………………………………..
They would be propping up spivs if they did…and I am sure there are enough external influences to advise Mr. Ogilvie as to who should financially benefit…

Why can’t Dundee United’s ground be used?

Hibs/Hearts league cup……Celtic/Ibrox Park (2 games) shoorly spreading the revenue around as many stadiums as is possible and practical would be best for Scottish football as well as the traveling for fans needs to be considered.

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rougvielovesthejunglePosted on9:11 pm - Feb 2, 2014


john clarke says:
February 2, 2014 at 8:08 pm

Couldn’t resist that one Mr Clarke.

We do live in wonderful times. After decades of mocking Aberdeen supporters for being sheep, it has actually transpired that the followers of the club formerly known as Rangers are the sheep 😀 . They flock to Ibrox every week, to watch a complete charade 😀

It also brings a wry smile to the face every time I think of John Brown referring to Aberdeen fans as “morons” in his autobiography.

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Bill1903Posted on9:18 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Wow Armageddon has struck!!

I’ve just got home after a fantastic weekend in beautiful Edinburgh having seen my team reach it’s first final for 14 years.
Tynecastle has fantastic acoustics and the atmosphere was fantastic. Not a bit of trouble did I see as fans mingled together both before and after the game.

Totally shocked and embarrassed at what happened to NL .
No excuse for it really but sectarian not a chance.(please note Irishmen Rooney,Hayes and Flood together with NL’s fellow countryman Niall McGinn played)

That part of the main stand was full of fans who stood all game and sang(not the normal type who’d be in that stand)I cant believe the area wasn’t better stewarded.

The bars around haymarket were packed at 10.30am and a lot of drink was taken obviously a minority can’t control themselves.

Sadly I’m sure this will pep up Neil’s team talk for next weekend and we’ll be on the receiving end of a pumping!

I’ll probably have to give this forum a miss for a few days(well unless Sevco go bump 😳 )

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upthehoopsPosted on9:19 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Paulmac2 says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:10 pm

Why can’t Dundee United’s ground be used?
===================================
Not hard to work out. Aberdeen will be able to get around 25,000 for a final. It remains to be seen how many ICT can get, but surely at least 10,000 – Tannadice simply couldn’t cope. Aberdeen have not been in a major final since 2000, and it will be ICT’s first ever major final. Fans deserve the chance to go and watch.

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Paulmac2Posted on9:19 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Having just read the statement from NL what struck me is that the situation was ongoing for an hour? Did no one Police or stewards take any appropriate action to prevent what was happening?

The fact there was a group of officials from Hearts/Celtic and Aberdeen sitting next to each other…where the objects where landing and was allowed to continue…with the Emburra Police claiming naebody complained so it’s awright…is just an insult to the intelligence!

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Exiled CeltPosted on9:20 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Just a comment on the SFA……….

In a world where you can do online banking 24 x 7, buy insurance at 2am or order anything and everything whenever you have a sleepless night……..seems SFA cannot work past 5pm on a Friday on 2 nights a year when clubs are trying to do business on the last day of the transfer windows.

Therefore players like Leigh Griffiths have to sit in the stand instead of being able to make a debut – maybe score and create interest and enthusiasm for the game…..

Compare and contrast…………

Sevco Scotland Ltd were given agreement to play at 8pm on a Friday night while the rest of the world watched James Bond in the Olympics opening ceremony………

The fact that Sevco Scotland had no membership of the SFA means it had no players registered to play on the Sunday against Brechin. Somehow the SFA managed to do this for them in their one and only senior match before TRFC were created and given the registrations. Somehow…….late on a Friday……….after 5pm…….

Glad to see the SFA working for the good of the game!

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upthehoopsPosted on9:22 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Bill1903 says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:18 pm
=====================
A good post. Glad you had a nice weekend. Now you can look forward to your team being favourites for the final and all the added pressure that brings. I’m sure you’ll love it!

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ecobhoyPosted on9:23 pm - Feb 2, 2014


ianjs says:
February 2, 2014 at 8:57 pm

Stage 1 and stuck ❓
==========================
Stage 1 and regressing ❗

It looks like bad Karma from something they did as an earlier entity 😆

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Bill1903Posted on9:24 pm - Feb 2, 2014


valentinesclown says:
February 2, 2014 at 8:12 pm

I agree. Wonder where final will be held Mr Ogilvie.
———————————————————————
Had it been Aberdeen v Hearts then Parkhead would’ve been the obvious choice.
Sadly with a crowd now in the region of 30k max I would say it will now be Ibrox(assuming it has all safety certificates!)

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ecobhoyPosted on9:29 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Paulmac2 says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:19 pm

Having just read the statement from NL what struck me is that the situation was ongoing for an hour? Did no one Police or stewards take any appropriate action to prevent what was happening?

The fact there was a group of officials from Hearts/Celtic and Aberdeen sitting next to each other…where the objects where landing and was allowed to continue…with the Emburra Police claiming naebody complained so it’s awright…is just an insult to the intelligence!
========================================================
And don’t forget the missile that landed in the Press Box – was that reported by the SMSM?

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Paulmac2Posted on9:33 pm - Feb 2, 2014


upthehoops says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:19 pm
…………………………………..

I hear what you are saying…therefore Easter Road or Tynecastle are the only real choices..

A certain ground in Govan has already been awared 2 games even though there are maintenance and repair concerns….Celtic park is just 2 big…although I would imagine the accoustics would add to the overall atmosphere and occasion…

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upthehoopsPosted on9:49 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Bill1903 says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:24 pm
========================
Celtic Park with only the lower tier open can accommodate in excess of 30K. It will be Ibrox though I’m sure, for a variety of reasons.

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bobferrisPosted on9:49 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Paulmac2 – Tynecastle and Easter Road are too small for a final involving Aberdeen (17,402 & 20,421 capacities). Aberdeen will likely take at least 20,000 given that it is their first final in 14 years and that they have a great chance of winning their first cup in 19 years. Inverness will hope to take at least 5,000. No conspiracy here, Ibrox makes sense. Celtic Park would surely have been the venue had Hearts won through. Tynecastle’s playing area is also far too small for a final. With maybe a few thousand neutrals, I can see maybe 35,000 attending. Shut off the top tier of the main stand and maybe the top of the Broomloan and it should look packed on tv.

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upthehoopsPosted on9:51 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Paulmac2 says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:33 pm

I hear what you are saying…therefore Easter Road or Tynecastle are the only real choices..
======================================
Both too small for the amount of fans that will want to go.

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redetinPosted on10:00 pm - Feb 2, 2014


ecobhoy says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:29 pm

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Paulmac2 says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:19 pm

Having just read the statement from NL what struck me is that the situation was ongoing for an hour? Did no one Police or stewards take any appropriate action to prevent what was happening?

The fact there was a group of officials from Hearts/Celtic and Aberdeen sitting next to each other…where the objects where landing and was allowed to continue…with the Emburra Police claiming naebody complained so it’s awright…is just an insult to the intelligence!
========================================================
And don’t forget the missile that landed in the Press Box – was that reported by the SMSM?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

…and “spitting”. What? From nearby seats and nobody got sprayed, nobody said anything, nobody reported to stewards? There is a credibility gap here.

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Paulmac2Posted on10:00 pm - Feb 2, 2014


I have just read the Graham Spiers twitter feed where he explains why it is NL fault for attracting abuse…

Astonishing…sad and utterly devoid of intellectual thought…I guess he has stated publicly what the rest of SMSM believe…

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TallBoy PoppyPosted on10:02 pm - Feb 2, 2014


ecobhoy says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:51 am
——————————————
Exactly the kind of insight we are deprived of by the craven apologists and frauds that purport to serve as journalists in this country. They’re not called the “fourth estate” for nothing.

Chapeau, echobhoy.

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stewartkevPosted on10:05 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Paulmac2: obviously one of the two Glasgow stadia are the correct choice, however a precedent has been set with the Scottish Cup Final; if we decide Ibrox or Parkhead are too large, the next largest football stadium in Scotland should be used. Pittodrie. 😆

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CastofthousandsPosted on10:09 pm - Feb 2, 2014


I passed through Govan today for the first time in a few years. A lot of redevelopment going on. It would be nice to think that Ibrox would be nestling in a new community of housing and business premises in the decades to come to match the new environs being belatedly enjoyed by Celtic Park (the East End has been a wasteland for too long). It would be a tragedy if the supporters of the team playing out of Ibrox were unable to enjoy this future opportunity due to circumstances that were not entirely within their control.

Picking up on an earlier architectural theme ( a lighthearted distraction). There is an excellent facade outside Govan Shipyard incorporating an entrance flanked by full size sandstone sculptures of shipyard artisans. It would be nice to think that such memorabilia could be retained for posterity but I suspect difficult decisions would have to be made if ever such sites were to be redeveloped. The new Glasgow School of Art building retains the original students union facade, enveloped all round by a shiny glass and metal structure. This would have been very expensive to incorporate but given the nature of the development, might have been justifiable.

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Lord WobblyPosted on10:10 pm - Feb 2, 2014


rougvielovesthejungle says:
February 2, 2014 at 7:54 pm

‘my closing remark was ” perhaps you should sell your motor to help support your club. Sevco’
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The thing is, that is exactly the sort of lunacy that the spivs rely on.
They don’t care where you get the money, just as long as it ends up in their ‘swag bag’.

But the Ibrox hordes fall for it, time and time again. And the likes of McCoist and assorted fans groups (Chris Graham and the VBs being particularly culpable) are totally complicit. As long as their nest (whether that be the club or their own pockets) is being feathered, they couldn’t give a toss where hard working folks get the money.

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stewartkevPosted on10:13 pm - Feb 2, 2014


http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/neil-lennon-at-tynecastle/#more-4353

Disgraceful blog, Phil. As bad as some of the nonsense the MSM come out with given that even Neil Lennon doesn’t believe the incident yesterday was sectarian in nature.

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Lord WobblyPosted on10:19 pm - Feb 2, 2014


The Aberdeen vs ICT league cup final stadia should be decided on the basis of one thing first and foremost. Which is the easiest and fairest destination for the fans of both clubs to travel to? Everything else should be secondary.

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CarntynePosted on10:25 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Rufus Otis and Hugo says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:57 am
18 1 Rate This

Can I ask a question of the more knowledge who post here.

If there is an asset swap and RIFC rent Ibrox to TRFC, who is responsible for repairs and maintenance to the stadium?

There have been suggestions that the cost of this will be considerable. Would this not be a further drain on meagre resources if it were to be TRFC?
______________________________________________________________________________________

The owner of rented out property is responsible for maintenance and repairs.

No doubt this will be reflected in the rent…

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Resin_lab_dogPosted on10:35 pm - Feb 2, 2014


upthehoops says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:49 pm

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Bill1903 says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:24 pm
========================
Celtic Park with only the lower tier open can accommodate in excess of 30K. It will be Ibrox though I’m sure, for a variety of reasons.

____________________________________

Am I the only ICT fan that thinks after the fargo of the past few years I will give it a miss if it is Ibrox?
Do Aberdeen fans feel the same?
I think the Ibrox element owe a debt to the rest of Scottisf football, not the other way round and I am am disinclined to line the pocket of spivs.

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JagsmanPosted on10:37 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Bill1903 says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:24 pm

Had it been Aberdeen v Hearts then Parkhead would’ve been the obvious choice.
Sadly with a crowd now in the region of 30k max I would say it will now be Ibrox(assuming it has all safety certificates!)

I think you do down the fans of clubs outwith the Ugly Sisters.

Last season’s League Cup final between St. Mirren and Hearts drew 44,036.

Hibs-Killie in 2007 had a crowd of 52,000.

Hibs-Livi in 2004, 45,500

The Dundee United-Ross County Scottish Cup final in 2010 had a crowd of 47,122.

Hearts and Gretna managed 51,232 in 2006.

Further back, Killie-Falkirk in 1996 pulled in 48,953 and Motherwell-Dundee United in 1991, 57,319

I would imagine Aberdeen and ICT could get a crowd similar to the Arabs-County Scottish Cup final if the game is marketed adequately.

And if, not, doesn’t Parkhead have a default attendance of 45,000 regardless of how many bums fill seats anyway?

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Lord WobblyPosted on10:44 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Jagsman says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:37 pm
0 0 Rate This
Bill1903 says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:24 pm

I think you do down the fans of clubs outwith the Ugly Sisters.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh come on. A gentleman should never abuse the Ibrox clubs on the basis of their looks. Especially when there is so much other ammunition!

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Tic 6709Posted on10:58 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Jagsman.Re safety certificate.
This is taken from Lord Vegetable’s twitter feed
There were many more comments.
=============================

5 Star Stadium? when the bams are moaning like this you know its a lot worse..

Happy days.

[QUOTE=daven37;21132304]Fellow Bears – I am sure I am not the only one who has noticed how our great home is looking increasingly in need of more than a lick of paint.

Inside the stadium I can remember briefly at the start of the season there being hot running water in the toilets but it back to freezing water. There are rusty pipes and crumbling stairs.

Had a walk round outside the stadium today and it just looks dirty – the top of the Copland and Broomloan stands are covered in dirt. There are broken shutters, the windows are covered in dirt – you can hardly see through them and there are broken paving stones at some entrances.

Also what is wrong with the pitch at the Main Stand side – the players are scared to run on it – it’s just pure mud.

Also why are there still televisions on the roof in the Main Stand Rear – they have not been used in about 20 years.

For me it is all further proof that those with the power at Rangers have absolutely no intention of investing anything into the club.

Has anyone else noticed anything?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=roaring meg;21132332]If a lick of paint is needed I am sure we could get some “volunteers” to do what is required.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=RinosPaws;21132340]said to my mate yesterday the stadium is a ****ing state.

It must be 10 years since it was properly maintained.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=rangeral;21132353]Our recent financial problems are part of the reason it was will be maintain to a basic level sadly.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=degenerate069;21132363]i emailed at the start of the season offering foc help from skilled members of the ff community but never got a reply from ibrox[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=The_Gub;21132364]Could be it has been repaired since.

When I renewed my season ticket in the summer there were letters missing on the front of Edmiston House.

Sums the club and the ne’erdowells running us up, sadly.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dippy55;21132365]The roof on the main stand is leaking, lots of big drips coming from it for the last two weeks for the bears sitting in EE.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GS_hamilton;21132367]Sad but true, Ibrox looks tired and in need of some TLC, sadly it’s been neglected for a number of years and the present ‘custodians’ only see it as their vehicle to continue their systematic rape of our once great club.[/QUOTE]

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Bill1903Posted on11:03 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Just seen NLs interview on sportscene.

He was very fair and although obviously upset and angry he was keen to play it down.

Chic was desperate for it to be sectarian but thankfully Neil didn’t think it was.

This will be in the papers all week taking the attention of events elsewhere.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:16 pm - Feb 2, 2014


edetin says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:00 pm
ecobhoy says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:29 pm

And don’t forget the missile that landed in the Press Box – was that reported by the SMSM?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
…and “spitting”. What? From nearby seats and nobody got sprayed, nobody said anything, nobody reported to stewards? There is a credibility gap here.
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Just to make it clear – I am not intending to suggest there is a credibility gap. I happily accept the missile landed in the Press Box. I have seen many people in my life sit in silence and be sprayed with liquid, booze and spittle and worse.

The vast majority sit and say nothing in case they get worse especially if there are a group of offenders – and a lot of stewards, in my general experience, tend towards being chocolate fireguards with an amazing ability to always be looking the other way when trouble is brewing.

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Paulmac2Posted on11:23 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Tic 6709 says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:58 pm
……………………………………

Seriously..I didn’t realise it was that dilapidated…and the SFA have awarded it 2 semi finals?

Resin_lab_dog says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:35 pm
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You might just be right Resin and give it a miss… 😯

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ecobhoyPosted on11:24 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Carntyne says:
February 2, 2014 at 10:25 pm

The owner of rented out property is responsible for maintenance and repairs. No doubt this will be reflected in the rent…
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That’s not my general experience with commercial property as the owner will try and achieve a lease/rent deal where full repairing/maintenance and insurance costs are covered by the renter as well as the costs of meeting any statutory obligations.

Obviously the renter will try and escape these costs and leave them with the owner. But it boils down to who is the most keen to do the deal in practice. There was a post earlier today from a surveyor who gave full chapter and verse on the subject – worth finding.

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Nuclear SheepPosted on11:33 pm - Feb 2, 2014


As a follower of Aberdeen, and occasional supporter, I may have made the effort to travel the 291 miles to Ibrox, should that be the chosen venue. Unfortunately, after nearly 28 years, of fabricated football, the thought of entering the ‘Big Hoose’ makes me feel physically sick.

The choice of venue for the final should also consider the necessity of electricity.

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John ClarkPosted on11:41 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Exiled Celt says:
February 2, 2014 at 9:20 pm
‘….Sevco Scotland Ltd were given agreement to play at 8pm on a Friday night..’
—————–
Yes, but by non-overtime pay-grades who did it for love (and perhaps bonus ‘performance’ money).
😀

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ecobhoyPosted on11:49 pm - Feb 2, 2014


Smugas says:
February 2, 2014 at 8:33 pm

But to dehumanise, abhorrent though that is, is NOT to be sectarian.
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I stated that what happened to NL – and I was writing before his explanation was released – wasn’t necessarily sectarian. It might have been – It might not have but, in any case, I think Neil is too wise a head in these matters to get drawn into that controversy.

It may well have been drink-fuelled bravado but that isn’t what I was getting at. The SMSM have long demonised Lennon – for whatever reason/s and I believe there is a racist/sectarian undertone to their treatment but the prime motive is just to dig him up because Celtic isn’t the Establishment team – old habits die hard and it takes a long time to clear the pervasive stench.

What I was trying to say is that the SMSM agenda can affect the perception of Lennon by some people who have been affected by the dehumanising process applied to him which makes it easier to attack or abuse him – even though they would never consider themselves racist or sectarian.

It’s a bit like the custody courts on a Monday morning when the weekend intake are brought in. Many of them often have little memory why they did and said things which for some of them would normally be abhorrent. But they have and the genuine ones find it very hard to rationalise their position usually because theior actions weren’t actually rational 😆

A difficult area but I believe that the only way to defeat it or totally minimise it is by education and confronting it every time it raises it head. In Scotland because of the upcoming referendum we have virtually 100% of politicians of all parties who are running a milke away from the subject in case it costs them votes.

We are surrounded by moral cowardice on the issue and football is used as the convenient carpet to brush the ‘unpleasantness’ from direct public gaze and therefore concern. It doesn’t really matter goes the mantra if it’s just the football scruff who are acting that way.

People who have to work in the real world know it’s a much deeper problem but it truly it outwith the remit of this blog.

And if booze has been taken then it’s even easier to lose control.

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TSFMPosted on12:03 am - Feb 3, 2014


I think the NL incident has travelled its course folks. By and large (apart from a couple of people who are infuriated by the treatment Lennon received and yet disagree with his analysis of the event at which he, unlike them was in attendance), we have dealt with the issue in a dignified manner.

I think I can safely say, having known the man since the beginning of his time in Scotland, that he has no wish to be either a target of sectarianism, or a poster boy for anti-sectarianism. In fact I know he would like everyone to shut up about it and let him get on with his job.

So let us do that. Others can rattle sabres elsewhere if they wish, but we should stick to analysis and tone down the outrage and rush to judgement.

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