Comment on The Case for a New SFA. by tayred.
John Clark October 20, 2015 at 11:51 pm #
The Cat NR1 October 20, 2015 at 10:43 pm #
‘…… I think that we need to get the SFA house in order before looking at what is going on in the leagues. ..’
That’s so very, very necessary.
The hugely disappointed, gutted Scotland rugby team and fans can at least take some comfort that , whatever the Mr Muir of international rugby did, Rugby ‘Governance’ is not suspected of any kind of fix. They can be sure that there were no little private dinners at which little guarantees about ‘outcomes’ might have been given.
Well… you might be surprised what folks think. Not me, I hasten to add. Although I do think there are issues that require to be looked at on the basis of several matches held during this rugby world cup and more suitable protocols developed on that basis. Joubert I reckon is simply incompetent, the TMO from that Quarter final is the one I would like to be more thoroughly investigated….
Anyway Im rambling. There is a certain Welsh rugby forum I occasionally frequent, owing to there rather entertaining viewpoints on many things (they really don’t like the Irish national team!). On that page there were several posters suggesting just what you mention above. That there must have been pressure on Joubert to help out if an Argentina v Scotland semi was likely to happen. They have already lost England, what if they lost Ireland and Australia too?? They also look back at previous world cups and point out several referees performances that when looked at from a certain angle could be viewed as having a whiff of corruption about them.
I don’t subscribe to that viewpoint, incompetence, pressure (perhaps more so from the large tier 1 nations) and a skewed picture of events by fans are more to blame in my eyes, but there are many who don’t hold the RFU up as being the innocent organisation you suggest.
The Case for a New SFA.
Smugas October 21, 2015 at 12:03 pm #
But…. even with the TMO in rugby, some decisions remain purely personal viewpoints. Maitlands knock on and subsequent yellow card being a prime example. If you asked all the World Cup referees to judge based on the TV pictures, I’d bet you not all would offer a yellow as their outcome.
Some days I think its a good idea, some days I don’t, but its not a cure-all.
The Case for a New SFA.
wottpi October 21, 2015 at 11:43 am
They can do what they wish with the free kick – its clean possession tap and run, create attacking ruck and away they go. In essence they gain 10 metres as the defending side has to withdraw. But you are right, if they kick to touch the throw reverts to the other side.
I think that a team can convert the free kick to a scrum? Not absolutely sure. A scrum in that position is a potent weapon, although we were doing better in the scrum (not convinced always legally though! Scrums are a mystery to me, despite playing flanker for years!)
The Case for a New SFA.
zerotolerance1903 October 21, 2015 at 11:25 am #
Any suggestion that Joubert’s call was in any way “a fix” is uncalled for IMHO.
I agree, nobody here is suggesting that it was. We had the game in our hands and literally threw it away. My comment was more along the lines of, for example, we all have serious problems with the ethics displayed by the SFA, unfortunately that does have a knock on effect that it becomes much easier to whip up an atmosphere of doubt on other organisations that simply do not deserve it! Exactly what drives said Welsh forum to such levels of conspiratory discussions I don’t know.
What does come out of this is a clear picture that TV evidence while solving some dilemmas (goal/no goal being clear), it muddies the water on some areas and creates new dilemmas that weren’t even a problem before.
Joubert made the huge mistake of running off the pitch – that has unfortunately laid him open to accusations which I agree are undeserved.
Who Is Conning Whom?
Finloch, who is to say that Milne hasn’t told TRFC and McInnes exactly that – Once the money is available away you go and talk.
Seems to me that all that AFC can be held as being guilty of at the minute is not seeking the SMSM to do their dirty work for them, not spouting off through broadcasters and journalists and unbelievably behaving in something approaching a professional way. Something TRFC couldn’t even begin to imagine doing.
AFC supporters are most certainly being treated with contempt by the SMSM and by TRFC, and in all probability by McInnes but Milne…. in this case I think its too early to say. That said… it wouldn’t surprise me!
I have my problems with Milne, but in this case I think he can’t win regardless of how it ends. I only hope come the end of it all he will pay more attention to feelings of the AFC supporters than those of TRFC and their compliant media.
The Vice Closes
DUNDERHEID, no. The law doesn’t come into it. It has already proved to be utterly useless at doing anything about it because its unworkable. Freedom of speech is valuable and should be guarded. No problems with that.
But here we are in a chat site full of intelligent people. People it seems that are quite happy for certain chants to be sung, despite complaining like hell when “the other side” gets off with it week-in week-out. I just don’t understand it! The one line answer “its not sectarian” floored me, and I’ll wager most outside the South-West of Scotland won’t understand it either.
Listing songs other clubs sing that are just as objectionable is fine – I don’t like them, nor understand why perfectly sensible people find them amusing. But while TRFC are belting out their well known ditties and CFC fans bring out their IRA songbook, its very hard to tackle the ignorance in songs about the economics of housing in urban environments! The Jimmy Saville related songs are quite simply revolting.
Anyway. Its a pointless argument as it sadly seems too ingrained in people from all the big to be solved anytime soon. Have a good weekend folks.
The Vice Closes
My point wasn’t to open a debate on what is and what isn’t sectarian – quite frankly thats a side argument – if its offensive I don’t care if its sectarian or not. But to question why it appears to be ok with some to sing about the IRA, and why the excuse appears to be because it “isn’t a sectarian song”.
Be it sectarian or not, there is no place for this at a football match in any normal society. It depresses me that so many are willing to accept this situation, and as mentioned elsewhere it seems incongruous that CFC fans are so ready to point the finger at TRFC fans whilst watching some of their own fans start the slide down that slippery path once again.
I’ll also add here that my own teams fans sing songs that may be considered by some offensive and I really wish they didn’t, but meantime you will never hear me defending those fans that are singing them.
TONYSEPTEMBER 21, 2017 at 18:08 30 23
TEARSOFJOYBut to the meat of the matter, that irresistible force : sectarian singing. The hypocracy that surrounds Celtic on this matter is staggering and the number of CFC fans that take the moral high ground on this matter equally so. CFC fan sing pro IRA songs – we all know it, we’ve all heard it. So let’s stop pretending otherwise.
IRA songs are not sectarian
I was going to ignore this message, but then I saw the amount of support it got from the SFM community. I was appalled. Its not a sectarian song apparently, and perhaps strictly speaking it isn’t, but to outsiders looking in it is every bit as repugnant as anything that TRFC fans (or indeed any other group of fans) may wish to sing.
I admitted perviously, I’m not an expert on the Irish politics. The IRA may have noble beginnings, standing up to the oppressor, one mans terrorist is another freedom fighter etc etc. But, as someone who had young family in that shopping centre in Manchester that particular day, I find it incomprehensible that anyone would believes glorifying the IRA is something that it is ok to sing about at a football match – a football match for gods sake.
The song may not be strictly sectarian for the pedants amongst us (and this site thankfully has many pedants pointing out the wrongs of the world in a more useful way), but to those looking at Celtic & Rangers from the outside it is impossible to separate the IRA/UDF or whoever from sectarianism and henceforth that song to the rest of us most certainly IS sectarian. Stop the whataboutery, stop the hate and bile returning to your support. If you need a target aim for Regan and the rest of the SFA or the Scottish media who are disgustingly wilfully helping to fan the flames of bigotry by turning their collective backs on the issue once again.
If Celtic and Rangers want to have any thoughts of joining the English leagues, then they will have to rid themselves of this baggage once and for all. Until then you most certainly won’t be welcome. But then “nobody likes us and we don’t care”. This stuff is not welcome at any of the other 40 odd grounds around Scotland, the lack of it over the past few years has been a joy – please don’t let it come back.
I know you CFC fans all hate the term – but two cheeks. By re-opening that once forgotten song book you are becoming one with your hate filled brothers from the other side of town. If you can’t see that then we might as well give up now.
My family walked out of Manchester that day unscathed thankfully. There are enough problems in this world without letting this nonsense get a firm foothold back in our society.
The Vice Closes
The song book – if the SFA/SPFL had stepped in right at the start of the issue of the TRFC songbook this wouldn’t an issue. If they had applied all the rules without fear or favour this wouldn’t be an issue. But by their repeated silence on the issue the TRFC fans grew bolder and soon realised they could do and sing whatever they liked. Sadly CFC fans appear to have decided that if “they can do it, then so should we”.
Yes, both clubs have historical links to Ireland. But god does it bore the pants off those from the remaining clubs around the land listening to this perpetual school boy playground drivel. Yes, ok it is far from being a school boy issue – I don’t understand all the issues relating to Ireland, and I sincerely doubt many others do. What I do know is that the majority of those fans belting out these revolting songs don’t understand them either, if they think they do its from the perspective of one side of the argument and even then deeply flawed. For them it is a school playground issue – they don’t really care about the politics or the history, its just what they do on a Saturday afternoon cos thats what their fathers did. Its tired, its pathetic and it has no part in any modern society.
Yet, in Scotland it isn’t just present, but due to the inactivity of those with the power to do something about, it it is flourishing. The press couldn’t give a stuff either… why? Cos it sells tickets and it sells newspapers. I love my country, but it has issues that the majority find downright mystifying and embarrassing – is it only money that allows this to continue? I mean it couldn’t be anything else could it?