After making inquiries into progress on Resolution 12 to the Celtic AGM of 2013 there is little doubt in my mind that the SFA made a serious error in the process of UEFA licensing.
Here are some facts:
- UEFA does not issue licences to clubs who have due tax bills outstanding,
- UEFA require the SFA to satisfy themselves of a club’s eligibility for a licence and that clubs have provided proof no overdue tax payable exists,
- UEFA also require a club to tell the SFA and UEFA if, after the issue of a licence there are material changes in their circumstances which would affect their eligibility – including the situation at #1 above,
- UEFA awarded Rangers a licence to play in European competition in March 2011,
- In May 2011 Rangers received a tax bill, which they did not contest or appeal or agree a payment plan. The bill (which remains unpaid) was overdue by 30 June 2011,
- UEFA received no notice of this,
- Rangers did not lose their licence and in fact competed in both the Champions’ League and The Europa League in that season.
None of these facts are disputed (as far as is known) by anyone connected to the saga. What is in doubt, because the SFA won’t answer the question, is whether they received a copy of the tax bill and the May letter that accompanied it from Rangers or not.
If they did send it to the SFA, Rangers could reasonably argue that they did their bit and the SFA fell down on the job by failing to notify UEFA of their new unfavourable tax status.
If Rangers did not send it, then they had broken not only UEFA FFP rules but more importantly the trust amongst SFA members that full disclosure is honestly made in a self-certification process. The SFA in not carrying out their monitoring responsibilities properly and using the powers UEFA FFP gave them also broke that trust.
In either case, there is a systematic failure by the SFA to administer the sport effectively; either through a failure of trust, a failure of administration – or both.
Even worse, in the four years that have elapsed since this incident, it seems that nothing has been done to put matters right. The SFA have been very active in refusing to answer questions on the matter, particularly this one;
“How will you prevent it happening again?”
Incredibly, up to now, no measures have been put in place to add rigour to the licensing process. Are they really saying that they think the process was carried out satisfactorily?
No they are saying nothing. Silence and denial, followed by silence and inaction.
So what is the point of this article? Let’s call out the elephant in the room right away – it is unequivocally not to have a go at Rangers. This is no longer really about Rangers at all, but about the SFA’s mal-governance of the game. Besides, clubs affected by this seeming failure on the part of the authorities (in that year Celtic, Dundee United and Hearts and Kilmarnock) are hardly likely to successfully sue a club now in liquidation (although small shareholders might take a different view with regard to the SFA’s conduct).
Nor am I seeking to find some retrospective punishment for the club (as far as I know sanctions are neither available retrospectively, nor useful in this case ) but to be aware that the question above urgently needs to be addressed if the status of football as a sport is to be maintained.
To the extent that this is about what has happened to Rangers, does anyone – no matter what club they owe their allegiance to – seriously consider that TRFC would NOT be in a better situation today had the SFA acted with propriety and applied their rules correctly in 2011/12?
With the kind of money on offer these days for entry into Europe, and the interdependent nature of the game, it seems fairly self-evident that trust is not enough to allow effective regulation, and that incompetent governance where money is the paramount consideration is unacceptable.
The SFA has long enjoyed a misconceived impression of its function as being that of a quasi-legal body, bestowing upon it a status of independence and aloofness from the partisan interest of the clubs. In the main, fans have largely bought into that myth. However the SFA is nothing of the kind.
It is in fact merely a cartel which is allowed to govern itself for its own benefit and is only accountable to the clubs that make up its membership, and not the fans. Check out the last sentences of almost any rule, where discretionary powers awarded to itself effectively render the rule worthless and unenforceable.
Literally, a nihilistic approach to governance
Maybe it is time the SFA scrapped the get out of jail discretionary clauses, and put some robust regulation in place to ensure the financial transparency of all clubs?
Even better, politicians are never slow to tell us of the importance of football to the social fabric of the country – in that case why not follow their own rhetoric, recognise that it cannot be allowed to self regulate in narrow self interest, and legislate to have football governed independently?
If I was a Rangers fan, I’d be thinking that the SFA’s failure to police the UEFA licencing issue helped accelerate the club’s demise – by making it easier to paper over the cracks.
If I was a Celtic, Hearts, Dundee United or Killie fan, well the consequences for them in terms of lost financial and competitive opportunities are fairly obvious.
Conclusion? The clubs can no longer be trusted to run the affairs of the industry themselves.
A new independent, accountable regulatory body (funded by the clubs) is the minimum we need to save the game in this country. It should comprise representatives of the clubs, the fans and other stakeholders – and it should have a holistic remit as its prime directive, whilst ensuring fair and equitable treatment of all clubs.
It can take decisions on the basis of what is good for the game without the baggage of self-interest, and without any west of Scotland institutionalised bias. Of course Scotland isn’t alone in this. Football is a powerful political force across the world, and as developments at FIFA over the past couple of years have demonstrated, it is institutionally corrupt. The clubs can no longer be allowed to run it as they see fit, and we need to begin a campaign which will ultimately convince the pay-at-the-gate fan of the truth of that.
The UEFA licensing issue is only a pebble in the sand of football incompetence and corruption, but it is a microcosm of what ails the game. The good of the sport, and not individual clubs, is paramount. The SFA cannot and will not deliver that.
The case for a new regulatory body is clear, and the status quo is not an option unless the death of the sport is deemed acceptable.
There is little doubt in my mind that unless regime change is effected, in a few decades there will be no regime .
Everything is going to come out in the wash and when it does
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etYHWZyRSMU
RANGERS – £31.5 million
The Glasgow giants endured years of financial uncertainty which culminated in the liquidation of the club’s former corporate identity in 2012. Although not in the Premiership the Gers are now under new ownership and look favourites to win the Championship this season and reclaim their place in the top flight.
The above is from the Scotsman online today comparing the relative net worth of Scottish football club. At least the message is consistent.
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/01/the-obsession-with-rangers/
From David Low on Twitter.
BOOM!! Share Prophets @ShareProphets Just posted: EXPLOSIVE EXCLUSIVE: Why the £10 million claim by Worthington on Rangers is … http://www.shareprophets.com/15443 #RFC #WRN
Off out to watch the game ,3pm carribean time,when you walk by the properties on these islands you would not doubt the millions that some people have,and the mansions are lying empty,it’s off season,they only come here in the winter months of their own countries,security gates to access complexes the size of the top end of Maryhill,patrols every hour,ok Maryhill doesn’t get that much attention,but in reality ,there is a lot of money out there and generally you have got to quiz how some of the recipients of this wealth came about it,anyway I will be watching the game with mostly French people,good people.
good luck to the Scottish Champions
Was in SFM Central today for a few hours – and blow me if I didn’t take the opportunity whilst there of imparting some wisdom here, just to see if it was any wiser than usual
.
Anyhow it is up and running, and if anyone of our regulars wants to come round to see what your money is being spent on then feel free to PM me or Tris.
I plan to be in the office full time from next week, and I will hopefully be putting the finishing touches to the equipment so we can move forward.
If anyone has any office chairs or cabinets or chests of drawers they would like to put on a skip – please don’t. Get in touch and we will take it off your hands.
Naively, we thought offices came with furniture, and we’ve already spent a few more pounds on that than we thought.
Also if there are any accountants out there who would be willing to give us mates rates for looking after our affairs, doing the tax return etc, we would welcome your help.
Kilgore Trout 1st October 2015 at 6:25 pm #scapaflow
It’s the very idea that doesn’t interest me, regardless of how it would be structured. To me it would mean being just another act in a sterile, soulless circus. My team, as I know it, would simply cease to be.
============================0
That sums it up for me. If Celtic ever walked away from Scottish football, then a lot of fans would walk away from Celtic. I hope and believe that in those circumstances a group of real fans would form a real Celtic team to enter Scottish football at the bottom of the pyramid. Because the team playing in what would certainly be a franchise based BPL wouldn’t even be playing genuine football, never mind be a genuine Celtic, in my opinion.
Any new Celtic formed by fans in those circumstances would have my total support, financial and emotional, and I don’t care if they started playing at Barrowfield or Dalmarnock Coup, for that matter.
Celtic are currently in grave danger of losing their soul, and once that is gone, there’s really nothing left worth supporting. Desmond seems to have lost sight of that.
Congratulations
Evening all. Just a quick post from the mobile with 20 minutes to go before kick off in a massive game not just for Celtic but Scottish fitba as a whole. Credibility on the European stage, coefficient points and TV audiences to chase to start with. Why oh why are we yet again being forced to go over the same old ground? I’ve refrained from posting thus far as the expletive deleteds would exceed the remaining words. DD and Magic Hat are both front page BBC Sport website football tonight FFS. Just how much further do they want drive a wedge between us and them?
Aye I’m behind Celtic as the last men standing, just not DD.
Get yon coefficient back where it belongs (which is 1 point above Cape Verde at the mo, thanks SFA dolts)
Scottish fitba – it might be shite but at least it’s OUR shite.
Rangers and Celtic – if you want to head off to the EPL then don’t let me stop you. You’ll not be missed.
Mind you if you had a shred of integrity, rather than wait to be “invited” to the EPL [stop sniggering there, boys] you would ask to join the Northern Premier League (North) and work your way up from there.
Really sad news for any ‘Well fans.
Joe Wark died today. Gone to meet the Coop and Phil.
Best full back Scotland ignored, played for the wrong team.
http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2015/10/01/joe-wark-1947-2015/
I am now in Doctor Who mode – listening from behind the sofa
scapaflow 1st October 2015 at 9:21 pm # I am now in Doctor Who mode – listening from behind the sofa
———————————————-
Perchance is Ambrose wi you ?
ianagain 1st October 2015 at 9:28 pm #
Jings and there wiz me thinking the hot breath was the dug
Interesting reading, but not in the least bit surprising.
I wonder if Tom will publish the correspondence as he did with emails related to the Worthington fraud he alleges.
Bill1903
In a UK league there would be no English FA to monitor.
I knew Joe was ill of course. Been suffering for quite a while now. Former colleague of mine ex-Airdrie winger John Whiteford was besties with Joe and he used to give me updates. A very clever, very charming man who will be sadly missed.
Coincidentally both JJ and Phil arrive at the conclusion that the training complex needs to be closed to save money. Ditto Ibrox only used for match days.
JJ posits sisting for Ibrox and all assets due to the court case.
Likely. Doubts all round as to who owns what.
Also (as I do) believe that the case for RIFC paying Greens costs is open and shut.
Leading to RIFC having to cough up many many millions over the course (certainly more than is incoming).
Insurance ? I don’t know. Doubt DCK believes in such things.
Very unlikely. Re- insurance laughably more expensive than just paying out.
So this is very much looking like the end again.
I’m certain this is far more terminal than most realise.
Just when I thought we were doing well with the chat surrounding DD’s remarks, up pop the ad hominem brigade.
Let me reiterate. If the only way you can conduct an argument is to ridicule another poster, you really have no business being on here. We need people to hold debates, not slanging matches.
EJ read Tom’s piece and came away thinking that if these guys devoted even half the time and energy building something that they devote to trying to screw each other, they would probably do quite well
BP
Joe and John had quite a few on field tussles remember him well also.
BP, I m afraid that when the sh!t storm hits, the anger will make 2012 look like a Teddy Bear’s Picnic. Plan for some long modding shifts
“Are wi there yet?”
“No lang noo.”
With the confluence of so many negatives recently that may very well be the case.
Scottish Football needs a strong Arbroath.
easyJambo 1st October 2015 at 10:17 pm
Hmmmm. I won’t discount the possibility that Doug might have been doing what he was told to do. A copy of his C.V. might shed a bit more light on where he came from and how he got where he is now. Anybody got one?
easyJambo 1st October 2015 at 10:17 pm
A few days after Winnifrith alleges the meeting took place:
http://news.stv.tv/west-central/229966-ex-rangers-owner-craig-whyte-given-weeks-to-sort-castle-mortgage/
In other news – anybody got the Radar Jackson bombshell in the Record this morning?
Is this the KJ thing, Tallboy?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-crisis-listen-leaked-phone-6557589
scapaflow 1st October 2015 at 11:45 pm
Depends on to which hit-storm you refer Scapa. We will be ready for it anyway. 🙂
Re the DR article.
So Operation #TrashGreen continues. (funnily enough Paul Murray gets drawn in, oopsie)
Have to say I’m a little disappointed both our and Phil’s name isn’t mentioned, not least the bit about “They’ve got some pretty accurate facts in there Malcolm.” Damn that google I say!
Auldheid, Nothing I alluded to indicated a connection of the two issues. My point is that we had a board who were rattled by the support in the room for the living wage proposal and it therefore suited them not to have a discussion on another issue that would have been supported by the assembled shareholders. I appreciate that the Res 12 discussions had taken place before the agm began but it definitely suited the board, to have it withdrawn/shelved on the day. I believe that it would have been better to have continued with the resolution on the day but the proposers were obviously persuaded otherwise. I’m sure that you are as frustrated by the lack of outcomes as the rest of us but the board appear to be in total control of the situation and the apparent inaction by them is a disappointment.
Why is “scoop” Jackson recycling a two year old story in this morning’s Record? The recording of a phone call that he picks through with breathless excitement has been in the public domain for years. If Smugas is right, and it’s part of a “trash Green” campaign, then that campaign is clearly struggling if that’s the best they can come up with.
From what I can make of Jackson’s twitter account, he is pushing the line that the Board that signed Green’s termination agreement was dysfunctional, therefore the agreement is unenforceable in law. Which kind of ignores the fact that the agreement is with the Company, not the Board. You cannot look through a Company to its Board when considering contracts, so far as I am aware.
This is just a rerun of the fans’ argument that “Rangers” shouldn’t have been punished because Craig Whyte didn’t pay over taxes to HMRC. It was the company that owed the tax, and the company that didn’t pay it over. The individuals behind the failure to pay have absolutely no bearing on the company’s liability whatsoever.
Neepheid,
Exactly. And I won’t lie. The involvement of the previously untouchable cardigan man in said dysfunctional board is gloriously ironic.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-crisis-listen-leaked-phone-6557589
Oh Keith, the two statements above show you need to do some reading. Contracts like this are not abnormal.
Not just the severance deal, read this excerpt from the Rangers IPO
4.1.2.8 Directors’ liabilities
Subject to companies legislation, every director and former director shall be
indemnified by the Company against any liability attaching to him in
connection with:
(a) civil or criminal proceedings in relation to the Company or an associated
company (other than a liability incurred in defending proceedings brought
by the Company or an associated company in which final judgment is given
against the directors);
(b) criminal proceedings in relation to the Company or an associated company
(other than a fine imposed in such proceedings, or a liability incurred in
defending proceedings in which the director is convicted and the conviction
is final);….. and there’s more.
See above PDF attachment last page.
Danish Pastry 2nd October 2015 at 6:45 am
Comparing the Winnifrith material and the Jackson story I have to conclude that Radar’s piece was in some way designed to distract the attention of the Bears. There are now sufficient numbers of them to have sight of the Shareprohets and johnjames material for the narrative set by DiCK GASh to have serious competition. Jackson’s slavish regurgitation of old material had the added bonus of putting a Rangers story on the front page when Celtic were involved in Euro action; a favourite stunt pulled often by our favourite Knight of the Hoverpitch.
neepheid 2nd October 2015 at 9:43 am #Why is “scoop” Jackson recycling a two year old story in this morning’s Record? The recording of a phone call that he picks through with breathless excitement has been in the public domain for years. If Smugas is right, and it’s part of a “trash Green” campaign, then that campaign is clearly struggling if that’s the best they can come up with. From what I can make of Jackson’s twitter account, he is pushing the line that the Board that signed Green’s termination agreement was dysfunctional, therefore the agreement is unenforceable in law. Which kind of ignores the fact that the agreement is with the Company, not the Board. You cannot look through a Company to its Board when considering contracts, so far as I am aware. This is just a rerun of the fans’ argument that “Rangers” shouldn’t have been punished because Craig Whyte didn’t pay over taxes to HMRC. It was the company that owed the tax, and the company that didn’t pay it over. The individuals behind the failure to pay have absolutely no bearing on the company’s liability whatsoever.
====================
It must be nigh on impossible for the SMSM to keep tiptoeing through the tulips.
Even Lord Haw-Haw and Joseph Goebbels would have struggled to keep a steady narrative and a straight face. Mind you, I suppose if your target market has such a narrow minded worldview and have tinfoil linings in their Sports Direct baseball caps then anything is possible. It does seem to be a suiciidal strategy though, aligning oneself to the Flat Earth Society in full knowledge of the reality of a spherical planet.
I do wonder sometimes whether we are actually laughing with the likes of KJ rather than laughing at them, as in a Brass Eye type way. Either that or Scottish football is just a huge Truman Show and we are the only ones that are not in on it.
Just had a visit from Paradisebhoy at SFM Central. Coffee and Oreos were consumed, although nobody was swallowing the latest DR squirrel 🙂
Pretty much settled in although the furniture situation is a bit threadbare 🙁
We plan to do a test live broadcast, hopefully in midweek.
Looking to add a bit of colour to the place and have as many clubs as possible represented, so I will be asking around for posters, pennants, squad pics etc. from as many clubs as possible.
Anybody who has stuff they would like to give to us for safe-keeping, please let me know.
Anyone wants to pop round for a coffee, let me know that too 🙂
Big Pink 2nd October 2015 at 1:47 pm #Just had a visit from Paradisebhoy at SFM Central. Coffee and Oreos were consumed
…
Anybody who has stuff they would like to give to us for safe-keeping, please let me know.
…
============================
“Coffee and Oreos” you say BP ?
Seems that the ‘expenses culture’ is not restricted to the Ibrox boardroom !
And, in order to pretend that the TRFC show is still ‘safely’ on its journey – and making friends along the way – could I suggest that we ask Dave King to hand over his wallet to you for safe-keeping ? [Well you weren’t being specific above.]
…assuming that King himself can find his own wallet…
Exciting times for SFM. Onwards & upwards !
Yes, I did visit SFM Central today and very impressed I was too . I was met at the door by a gorgeous Blonde receptionist and she led me through to the waiting area , her stiletto heels clicking on the Marble floor – “Mr Pink , will be with you shortly ” – I thought about doing the “don’t call me shortly” joke but decided against it . A buzzer sounded , and I was led through into the lavishly furnished inner sanctum . Seated behind the massive Oak desk was Big Pink – a large white cat on his lap .
OK , I’ve went too far – It’s a wee Pokey office with second hand furniture but it’s a start . Big Pink is actually John Cole , an old pal and ex work colleague of mine . John is a talented guy , plays a mean guitar and tells a good story . If this was an old Western Movie he would be wearing a white hat . He is also very persuasive and I found myself volunteering to help out with future Podcasts, so if you are thinking of giving him a visit – beware.
Ah, Meester Bhoy. I’ve been expecting you
Paradisebhoy & Scottc, Hope your kidding.
A big blonde receptionist, is that where my money went? 
Paradisebhoy 2nd October 2015 at 4:36 pm #
Yes, I did visit SFM Central today and very impressed I was too . I was met at the door by a gorgeous Blonde receptionist
Paradise
They do have a cat though surely?
If no the Pway cat down our ways looking to get rehoused soon.
scottc 2nd October 2015 at 6:28 pm #Attachment
…
Ah, Meester Bhoy. I’ve been expecting you
========================
BP, you should have that photoshop, [well I am assuming it’s not original ?], framed and hung on the office wall !
scottc…you have too much time on your hands…but good effort.
Tommy B
The Board wanted it withdrawn because they had enquired of SFA and got answer which whilst true, was only part of the story.
We refused which meant Celtic voting against it and apart from a furore at the AGM, after a week Res12 would be dead.
The adjournment suggestion kept it alive and meant we had inroads to find out from SFA what had happened and we did.
There were issues of provenance to get around which we did and as a result of our strategy the SFA are refusing to deal with shareholders questions from April. I doubt that line can hold especially if what the SFA are refusing to answer becomes more widely available.
If they continue to refuse to respond meaningfully they will be taken to court for not acting on evidence of fraud.
That is what happened. I appreciate folk were disappointed by the adjournment but the reasons for it are sound and nothing like the scenario you paint.
Paradisebhoy 2nd October 2015 at 4:36 pm #
scottc 2nd October 2015 at 6:28 pm #
woodstein 2nd October 2015 at 7:57 pm #
______The makings of a fine film team, there: writer, camera man, and producer. Not to mention as fine a villain as ever sat on a director’s chair ( ok, maybe not as villainous as DK), but the leading blonde was not to my taste!
Well done the three of ye. I had a good laugh.
scottc 2nd October 2015 at 6:28 pm
_______________________________
Yes very 60s. Not my colour though 🙂
Extract from The Guardian article today;
“Leading Fifa sponsors Coca-Cola and McDonalds have demanded Sepp Blatter’s immediate resignation as president…”
=====================
My initial reaction to this report was that FIFA cannot ignore these major sponsors, so FIFA will have to sever ties with Blatter ASAP, which must be a good thing.
But then I considered our regular topic of discussion here on SFM: business v. sporting objectives.
Unfortunately, this report also, IMO, confirms how big business now effectively ‘owns’ world football. The global ‘football family’ cannot sort out its own mess – so corporate giants who specialise in selling ever more junk food, sugared water, alcohol etc. will tell FIFA what is required ?
Football governance in senior football is a shambles at all levels, it seems.
Auldheid 2nd October 2015 at 9:21 pm #
‘….. as a result of our strategy the SFA are refusing to deal with shareholders questions from April. ‘
_________
Auldheid,
Just to make sure I’ve got this right: are the Board of the SFA saying to all SFA-shareholding members that at an SFA agm , those member-clubs cannot expect a reply to their questions?
Or are they saying that only clubs that are plcs can’t expect an answer to questions that those clubs are legally required, by a Resolution of their shareholders at an agm, to seek an answer to?
I know that present and past SFA boards have had members/officers who played fast and loose with the rules that govern Football, and have lied and dissembled in football matters. And that some particular chaps may also have turned a blind eye to what they must at least have suspected were breaches of tax legislation, and may also have been very happy to mislead their own internal ‘judicial’ enquiry.
So I’m ready to believe that the SFA board have both the lack of scruple and the brass neck to try to muzzle folk.
But I doubt if they would ever get away with either proposition, certainly not the latter. I would imagine that, however reluctantly, a plc Board MUST answer their shareholders’ questions enshrined in a passed Resolution. And no Articles of Association of the SFA, or special memorandum of agreement, could ever legally require a shareholder member club to refuse to meet its statutory requirements to its shareholders.
We need to nail these guys. And more power to your elbow in the continuing fight to do so.
Mr jj and not just him, have been exercising the forward projections of cash at their club and its even worse than even I thought.
I am also remiss in reminding folk that apart from all the known court dates for oldco, there will surely be representations in due course for the artificial suppression of the share prices at Newco.Don’t expect GSL to jet in for that one.
Honestly wish johnjames, Merlin and ninjaman would join us. Sensible Rangers men who are just like us. Maybe Ryan wouldn’t feel so lonely with big hitters like these guys. I miss RSL but the new jj site makes up for it.
You might wonder why I as a Tim have so much respect for these folk? It is so refreshing after 20 years of BS from the SMSM to have allies from within the Rangers support as to the shysters and spivs that ruined Rangers, corrupted authorities that was being foretold since RTC days. At last some folk get it! Although I think jj has been pleading his case for a while beforehand on the LSE chat page.
If your watching chaps, join in, your welcome as far as I’m concerned.
jimbo 2nd October 2015 at 11:41 pm #
‘..It is so refreshing after 20 years of BS from the SMSM to have allies from within the Rangers support as to the shysters and spivs that ruined Rangers, corrupted authorities that was being foretold since RTC days.’
________
I am all for support ,from any quarter, in the attack on
SDM as master sports cheat,
CW as the immediate stiffer of creditors,
the SMSM for their support of SDM and his cheating
CG as the creator of the Big Lie
the SFA, SPL, and SFL boards who signed the 5-Way Agreement
the SMSM who endorse that Agreement
the SFA /SPL /SFL conspiracy to ensure that SDM’s RFC was not expelled from Scottish Football,
the SFA for not stripping RFC of titles and honours dishonourably ‘won’ by the most vile cheating
the persistent propaganda campaign by the SMSM to try to get TRFC accepted as ‘Rangers’
the hugely self-deluding attempt by the supporters of TRFC to convince themselves that the new team that they have thrown their money at is the RFC of their fathers
the people like Dermot Desmond ( and the various current or ex-Celtic players wheeled out to spout about their burning desire to have ‘Rangers’ back ‘where they belong’) who try to propagandise on behalf of the Big Lie
Give me a traditional Rangers supporter who acknowledges that his Rangers is dead in Liquidation, that TRFC is a new club with nothing much in the way of football achievement, and that old Rangers should have been expelled, ……
and I’ll happily accept his support in the fight to cleanse Scottish Football.
Viz top tip:
Are you a Scottish sports journalist or fan of Ibrox club struggling to understand the meaning of the word “liquidation”?
Simply Google ” Redcar steelworks”.
Then grow a pair.
And stop insulting the intelligence of everyone else in the world and spare a thought for some genuine victims who were not the architects of their own downfall.
#dignity
I see the Daily Record have got Imran Ahmad on their front page again . This time they have tracked him down to his mothers house in Pakistan , they have given street names and address’s too in a ” here he is Police Scotland , go and get him please” kinda way ! Yes , it seems the DR can do a bit of Investigative journalism when they really want to , as long as it fits with their agenda of course .
And one cannot be blamed for thinking that there is a big agenda driven push being aimed at the general public here with regards to the upcoming court case ?
And all the time the RRM of SDM , McCoist , Smith etc get a free run regardless of their conduct or Involvement on boards that signed off on Charles Green’s bomb proof contracts !
Its not as if anyone has stiffed the public purse out of close to a £billion and then creamed the good bits into another family owned business is it ?
Now that would be really worthy of Investigative journalism …..
What an opportunity missed by the DR ,or maybe Keef is holding onto it for now,but is our infamous Mr Murray not holed up in the same part of the world with his new business adventure as their front page story comes from,you would have thought an interprid editor would have worked the butt of whoever got the gig to capture an interview with the stories main character ,how about the headline,David and Rangers X amount of years On,no,thought not.
Eddiegoldtop @4:50am
The thing is, of course, that the Daily Record will not have carried out any journalism of any kind, investigative or otherwise.
This information will have been amongst the stories they are given to commit straight to print in the daily email.
Honestly wish johnjames, Merlin and ninjaman would join us.
**********************
Fully concur. I have a colleague who is a Rangers man and from around the start of this year he has been questioning the ‘perceived wisdom’ of DCK as the Messiah. This is a guy who fully bought in to Mr Charles as a great guy and that it was only a matter of time, rightful place, blah blah!!
His sea change has been brought about by a gradual realisation that the good ship Sevco was sailing through a patch of fiscal turbulence and that the lifeboats were conspicuous by their absence. Or to quote the man himself, ‘dae they think Ah’m f***** daft?’.
He still has his season ticket, which he has had for 25 years and continues to support his team but is now questioning his status as a ‘co-investor’, a term that implies that reciprocal funds are also being chucked into the pot. It would appear that ‘sole investor’ is a more apt term.
Kilgore Trout 3rd October 2015 at 8:22 am
At first sight the splash across the front page of today’s Record suggests that our intrepid reporters are at last hot on the heels of the villains in the Ibrox saga with no expense spared. On closer reading I have concluded that the paper simply got a researcher to make a long distance call to Karachi and to locate Imran Ahmad’s house on Google Maps, a task even I could have done from the comfort of my front parlour without having to break into a fiver.
Once again the Record informs the nation of the postal address of Ahmad’s mother in Pakistan, as it did with Green’s solicitors in Glasgow. I’m sure Imran’s maw can now look forward to receiving many messages of support from well-wishers in the west of Scotland.
Re the recent Daily Record coverage. Many people, myself included, perceive it as trying to have some kind of influence over upcoming court cases involving Charles Green. I have no evidence that is their motive but it is my opinion. I think the behaviour of some journalists is terrible, and far removed from what the true aim of their profession should be. Many people, including the taxpayers of the UK, suffered greatly due to what happened at Ibrox. Millions were withheld in tax then no reasonable attempt appeared to be made to realise money through the assets to attempt to pay back the taxpayer and others.
So given all that has happened the Daily Record should not just be calling out Whyte, Green and Ahmad. It is high time they asked questions of so called Rangers men like Walter Smith, Gordon Smith, David Murray, Malcolm Murray, Dave King, and Alastair Johnstone, all of whom will have a story to tell. I do not accuse these men of any wrongdoing, but how much wrongdoing did they know about or suspect? I can’t believe that in 2015 such protection is still offered to certain types in Scottish society, but that appears to be the case. When I was making my way in life being a ‘good Rangers man’ with other affiliations opened doors which were slammed shut to others. I do not see so much of that in working life now, and indeed it has not stopped me from progressing in my career whereas up to the early 90’s it almost certainly would have. What I do continue to see though is a protection offered to football clubs from Ibrox, and particular types associated with them, which is not available to other clubs or those in stewardship of them.
I simply don’t see enough evidence of the multi-cultural Scotland the politicians keep saying exists, and the protection I have spoken about here is evidence of that in my view.
An interesting piece in the Evening Times by Matthew Lindsay, indicating that Gilligan, for one, didn’t know what he was getting into.
http://t.co/EoG4EnflV4
“What makes it really difficult is, because of the Police Scotland investigation, there are other things that are coming into play here which certainly I didn’t see them coming anyway.
“Not the least of which is when you are handed a piece of paper which says the former chief executive (Green) has a contract which he says means we have to pay his legal fees. Nothing is very simple.”
Billy Boyce 3rd October 2015 at 1:13 pm
Indeed, what do they seek to achieve by doing things like releasing private details. I don’t see how it can in any way be a good thing.
At best it is totally neutral, at worst it leads to people being threatened and abused.
It is little different to the former managers “name names” disgrace.
neepheid 3rd October 2015 at 3:40 pm
An interesting piece in the Evening Times by Matthew Lindsay, indicating that Gilligan, for one, didn’t know what he was getting into.http://t.co/EoG4EnflV4
“What makes it really difficult is, because of the Police Scotland investigation, there are other things that are coming into play here which certainly I didn’t see them coming anyway.“Not the least of which is when you are handed a piece of paper which says the former chief executive (Green) has a contract which he says means we have to pay his legal fees. Nothing is very simple.”
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The headline suggests that the Green claim may be spun as the reason for any looming financial crisis. A useful smokescreen to hide any actual skintness and an excuse for the phantom warchest remaining shut?
I see John James is predicting losses of £10m in this financial year. (He hasn’t predicted what he thinks the level of losses were in the year to June 2015)
Do you think he realises a business can only continue to run at a loss if it has a line of credit or someone is providing it with loans.
Unless someone provides those loans or there is a very successful share issue the club will not run at a loss of £10m. It will simply go bust.
From the Evening Times article
“Dave King, the major shareholder and chairman, and Paul Murray, the director, have both been passed as “fit and proper” by the Court of Session …”
Sorry for being dense, I don’t have a great memory, but when did this happen. I think I can recall the Court of Session doing something with regard whether they could be directors of a business with “Rangers” in the name, because of the possibility of phoenixing (if that’s the word). That being because they were directors of the club now in liquidation. I don’t remember anything about them being “fit and proper” though.
Can anyone point me at a link, if it was reported anywhere.
I think this is the relevant part re the name
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/45/section/216
(3)Except with leave of the court or in such circumstances as may be prescribed, a person to whom this section applies shall not at any time in the period of 5 years beginning with the day on which the liquidating company went into liquidation—
(a)be a director of any other company that is known by a prohibited name, or
(b)in any way, whether directly or indirectly, be concerned or take part in the promotion, formation or management of any such company, or
(c)in any way, whether directly or indirectly, be concerned or take part in the carrying on of a business carried on (otherwise than by a company) under a prohibited name.
Homunculus 3rd October 2015 at 4:18 pm #
Unless someone provides those loans or there is a very successful share issue the club will not run at a loss of £10m. It will simply go bust.
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Tsk tsk……… clearly you were not educated in the Govan University of Financial Facts (GUFF). Clubs are incapable of going bust, unlike companies.
Highlander 3rd October 2015 at 4:43 pm
That’s going to be an interesting debate when they realise that someone else currently holds the rights to the IP, and effectively the club’s identity. Not security over it, he actually holds the IP, and isn’t returning it until his loan is repaid.
From the unquestioning ET report on the Rangers Supporters Trust AGM :
“…come back to us.” When would that be? 2025?
“Elsewhere, Gordon Dinnie, the Rangers Supporters Trust chairman, revealed that liquidators BDO had confirmed to the organisation that it would be possible to transfer the assets back into the control of the oldco in the future.
Dinnie said: “We asked: ‘Would it be possible to resurrect oldco?’ The answer we got was: ‘Yes, it would be very difficult because there is too much going on legally elsewhere at the moment, but come back to us’. The advice we have had is it is doable.” “
Again, this does raise the question of why they would feel the need to do this… it also strongly suggests an underlying acceptance that the new football team does not have the legitimacy they so often proclaim.
And the comment from BDO regarding a slightly unclear current picture
I was also taken by Gilligan’s comments on the financial situation and that “This club can’t survive in the next 10 years without supporters’ input.”
Allied to him also saying that “There are a number of plans to look at the academy at Auchenhowie and try and get the proper message over of what it is all about.” I very much felt a softening up effort was underway and wondered just he meant by “get the proper message over of what (MP) … is all about” – perhaps a new SFA football centre of excellence thus removing the cost burden from RIFC/TRFC?
With the overall tenor of Mr Gilligan’s words falling somewhere short of optimistic, it would not surprise me at all if fans were soon be told that some fairly major and painful steps need to be taken to save the ‘club’.
Perhaps even that Green’s legal action, if successful, means the clumpany now has to go into administration!
Scottish Football needs a strong SMSM. If only…
Highlander/Homunculus
In David Low’s interview with BP, he said that Kingco’s dilemma was either continue with the soft loans until the court case is resolved – or let TRFC go bust.
If they walk away, they surely lose everything they’ve invested up to now. If they feed the losses they potentially lose more, but with the possibility that they might recoup their investment.
I see little alternative for them but to implement a severe austerity package to minimise their potential future losses. The trouble really begins when and if they run out of funds.
Not being a gambler, that scenario would frighten the bejasus out of me, but I am sure Kingco folks are used to those kind of business risks presenting themselves.
One might wonder though if ANY of them did the proper due diligence exercise before committing funds in the first place. I think it is truly astonishing that they could not have foreseen the doubts surrounding the validity of the sale and ownership of the assets.
Trisidium 3rd October 2015 at 6:42 pm
Being honest I think the whole ownership of the assets thing really only currently effects one thing. Whether or not they can have a successful rights / share issue just now. It is questionable whether they could have had one anyway.
The bottom line, in my view, is that the whole business plan was based on another issue being successful (it is questionable if the last one was actually as successful as it was portrayed). I don’t think King or the others ever intended providing loans of tens of million, so getting it from investors, including fans was the only way it was ever going to work.
What the current situation may have done is have taken even that option away. Add that to Green’s claim and the situation is dire indeed.
Cash flow is King. They can’t wait very long for a rights or share issue, they really need the money now, or in the very near future. Failing that it’s loans and who is going to provide them. Particularly if there is nothing to secure the loans against.
On King, is he actually that exposed. He managed to force the share price down pretty far before he actually bought any (well before a trust bought any).
The only dilemma they have is how much they can get for Tavernier and maybes Waghorn while they still look like good players.
Its now so urgent I’m sure they will be trying to sell them for January right now.
If Chuckles prevails next week its a waste of time and lights oot.
Re suggestions that the SFA might take over Auchenhowie. I very much doubt they have the financial wherewithall to do so, and would face huge resistance from most member clubs.
Firstly , the numbers. I don’t think we’ve had a definitive number of what it costs to run Auchenhowie. The accounts do not provide enough detail. However I think it not unreasonable to suggest that the number for a fully operational facilty is unlikely to come at less than £4 Million a year to run, and is likley to be much more,possibly 3 times more.
The SFA has generated pretax profit of £2.7 million over the last 4 years . Thats an average of around £680 K a year. Even on the lowest estimate of running Auchenhowie , the SFA would run a deficit of £3.3 Million a year.
The total shareholders funds for the SFA amounts to £7.4 million,
* so at that rate of deficit, and remember thats the minimum , it could run to over £10 Million a year,
* it would take the SFA somewhere between 27 months and 9 months to become insolvent if they took over Auchenhowie,
*and thats assuming they were gifted it for nothing. So financially it’s a complete non starter
Secondly , the ownership conundrum. Until all of the various court cases, and any appeals, are concluded it is impossible to sell any of assets, even for £Zero
Thirdly, the member club reactions. Even if 1 & 2 were resolveable , which they aren’t , at least for a long long time, then why would the clubs allow this.
I would imagine it would be a resignation issue for any SFA board member who disagreed with any move to take over Auchenhowie. The position of all of them attached to a club would be untenable, as it’s clear no club’s fanbase , with the possible exception of Rangers, would see it as acceptable for tne SFA to bail out Rangers
In short , thereis no way it’s viable for the SFA to consider this, and that’s even taking into account their previous duplicitous behaviour
So Mr.Green and other erstwhile board members eventually establish comfort with regard to their upcoming legal fees. Going on past performance the answer to TRFC`s predicament is simple.Postpone, prevaricate and adjourn. A method that seems de rigueur with regard to all things Ibrox. This might allow enough breathing space for the entitled return to belonging etc before serious matters need be attended. ..ever thus.
gunnerb 3rd October 2015 at 9:12 pm
I really don’t see how they can postpone etc when the money runs out.
Someone has to pay the bills, and if they can’t pay them as they fall due then they are insolvent.
It’s seriously questionable why they were even allowed to compete in the SPFL this season.
Barcabhoy 3rd October 2015 at 8:25 pm #
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There is the possibility that the SFA will not renew the lease on Hampden (expires 2020), which would leave them the option of taking the Scotland internationals around the country, thus trickle feeding more to the clubs. I don’t know how much it costs the SFA for the upkeep of Hampden, but it will be considerable.
Auchenhowie could provide a reasonably cheap base for them if they only wanted it as a training base for the full Scotland squad and the various age group sides.
The National Performance Centre at Riccarton will also open around this time next year, which could also provide a base for the administrative side as well as a training base. I’ve attached a photo, that I took earlier today, of the current progress of the build of the indoor football arena.
Homunculus 3rd October 2015 at 9:18 pm #gunnerb 3rd October 2015 at 9:12 pm
I really don’t see how they can postpone etc when the money runs out.
Someone has to pay the bills, and if they can’t pay them as they fall due then they are insolvent.
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Oh, I agree absolutely but we are dealing with the fabric …ya de yada. This abomination will limp on to the promised land somehow, foolish soft loans and belief in the creed. When things eventually come home to roost it will all be someone else`s fault.
Indisputable
http://sandyhillloyal.wordpress.com/
Bloody hell.