The Case for a New SFA.

Avatar ByBig Pink

The Case for a New SFA.

After making inquiries into progress on Resolution 12 to the Celtic AGM of 2013 there is little doubt in my mind that the SFA made a serious error in the process of UEFA licensing.

Here are some facts:

 

  1. UEFA does not issue licences to clubs who have due tax bills outstanding,
  2. UEFA require the SFA to satisfy themselves of a club’s eligibility for a licence and that clubs have provided proof no overdue tax payable exists,
  3. UEFA also require a club to tell the SFA and UEFA if, after the issue of a licence there are material changes in their circumstances which would affect their eligibility – including the situation at #1 above,
  4. UEFA awarded Rangers a licence to play in European competition in March 2011,
  5. In May 2011 Rangers received a tax bill, which they did not contest or appeal or agree a payment plan. The bill (which remains unpaid) was overdue by 30 June 2011,
  6. UEFA received no notice of this,
  7. Rangers did not lose their licence and in fact competed in both the Champions’ League and The Europa League in that season.

 

None of these facts are disputed (as far as is known) by anyone connected to the saga. What is in doubt, because the SFA won’t answer the question, is whether they received a copy of the tax bill and the May letter that accompanied it from Rangers or not.

If they did send it to the SFA, Rangers could reasonably argue that they did their bit and the SFA fell down on the job by failing to notify UEFA of their new unfavourable tax status.

If Rangers did not send it, then they had broken not only UEFA FFP rules but more importantly the trust amongst SFA members that full disclosure is honestly made in a self-certification process. The SFA in not carrying out their monitoring responsibilities properly and using the powers UEFA FFP gave them also broke that trust.

In either case, there is a systematic failure by the SFA to administer the sport effectively; either through a failure of trust, a failure of administration – or both.

Even worse, in the four years that have elapsed since this incident, it seems that nothing has been done to put matters right. The SFA have been very active in refusing to answer questions on the matter, particularly this one;

“How will you prevent it happening again?”

 Incredibly, up to now, no measures have been put in place to add rigour to the licensing process. Are they really saying that they think the process was carried out satisfactorily?

No they are saying nothing. Silence and denial, followed by silence and inaction.

So what is the point of this article? Let’s call out the elephant in the room right away – it is unequivocally not to have a go at Rangers. This is no longer really about Rangers at all, but about the SFA’s mal-governance of the game. Besides, clubs affected by this seeming failure on the part of the authorities (in that year Celtic, Dundee United and Hearts and Kilmarnock) are hardly likely to successfully sue a club now in liquidation (although small shareholders might take a different view with regard to the SFA’s conduct).

Nor am I seeking to find some retrospective punishment for the club (as far as I know sanctions are neither available retrospectively, nor useful in this case ) but to be aware that the question above urgently needs to be addressed if the status of football as a sport is to be maintained.

To the extent that this is about what has happened to Rangers, does anyone – no matter what club they owe their allegiance to – seriously consider that TRFC would NOT be in a better situation today had the SFA acted with propriety and applied their rules correctly in 2011/12?

With the kind of money on offer these days for entry into Europe, and the interdependent nature of the game, it seems fairly self-evident that trust is not enough to allow effective regulation, and that incompetent governance where money is the paramount consideration is unacceptable.

The SFA has long enjoyed a misconceived impression of its function as being that of a quasi-legal body, bestowing upon it a status of independence and aloofness from the partisan interest of the clubs. In the main, fans have largely bought into that myth. However the SFA is nothing of the kind.

It is in fact merely a cartel which is allowed to govern itself for its own benefit and is only accountable to the clubs that make up its membership, and not the fans. Check out the last sentences of almost any rule, where discretionary powers awarded to itself effectively render the rule worthless and unenforceable.

Literally, a nihilistic approach to governance

Maybe it is time the SFA scrapped the get out of jail discretionary clauses, and put some robust regulation in place to ensure the financial transparency of all clubs?

Even better, politicians are never slow to tell us of the importance of football to the social fabric of the country – in that case why not follow their own rhetoric, recognise that it cannot be allowed to self regulate in narrow self interest, and legislate to have football governed independently?

If I was a Rangers fan, I’d be thinking that the SFA’s failure to police the UEFA licencing issue helped accelerate the club’s demise – by making it easier to paper over the cracks.

If I was a Celtic, Hearts, Dundee United or Killie fan, well the consequences for them in terms of lost financial and competitive opportunities are fairly obvious.

Conclusion? The clubs can no longer be trusted to run the affairs of the industry themselves.

A new independent, accountable regulatory body (funded by the clubs) is the minimum we need to save the game in this country. It should comprise representatives of the clubs, the fans and other stakeholders – and it should have a holistic remit as its prime directive, whilst ensuring fair and equitable treatment of all clubs.

It can take decisions on the basis of what is good for the game without the baggage of self-interest, and without any west of Scotland institutionalised bias. Of course Scotland isn’t alone in this. Football is a powerful political force across the world, and as developments at FIFA over the past couple of years have demonstrated, it is institutionally corrupt. The clubs can no longer be allowed to run it as they see fit, and we need to begin a campaign which will ultimately convince the pay-at-the-gate fan of the truth of that.

The UEFA licensing issue is only a pebble in the sand of football incompetence and corruption, but it is a microcosm of what ails the game. The good of the sport, and not individual clubs, is paramount. The SFA cannot and will not deliver that.

The case for a new regulatory body is clear, and the status quo is not an option unless the death of the sport is deemed acceptable.

There is little doubt in my mind that unless regime change is effected, in a few decades there will be no regime .

About the author

Avatar

Big Pink administrator

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

1,255 Comments so far

ianagain

ianagainPosted on11:05 pm - Oct 3, 2015


https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/03/10m-deficit-incontrovertible-facts/
Wow

View Comment

Avatar

GoosyGoosyPosted on11:39 pm - Oct 3, 2015


redlichtie 3rd October 2015 at 5:14 pm #From the unquestioning ET report on the Rangers Supporters Trust AGM :“Elsewhere, Gordon Dinnie, the Rangers Supporters Trust chairman, revealed that liquidators BDO had confirmed to the organisation that it would be possible to transfer the assets back into the control of the oldco in the future. Dinnie said: “We asked: ‘Would it be possible to resurrect oldco?’ The answer we got was: ‘Yes, it would be very difficult because there is too much going on legally elsewhere at the moment, but come back to us’. The advice we have had is it is doable.” “
………………….
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If  this RST story is true
 
BDO are saying that the company ownership and registration of Rangers(2012)plc can accept the assets of The Rangers Football Club Ltd and be rescued from liquidation
 
If this is true
 Then the oldco company shell  called Rangers (2012)plc has a potential market value since there is the possibility that it may be wanted by TRFC
If so
Then
 Rangers(2012)plc is not simply a debt ridden company in the process of liquidation
It is also an asset with a value to TRFC
And
 if it is an asset
The company registration of Rangers (2012) plc should be sold to the highest bidder and the proceeds used to improve the dividend to creditors
Which begs the question
Why haven’t BDO put the company registration of Rangers (2012) plc up for sale ?
Is there some legal reason this isn`t possible?

View Comment

Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on1:35 am - Oct 4, 2015


GoosyGoosy 3rd October 2015 at 11:39 pm 
    “The company registration of Rangers (2012) plc should be sold to the highest bidder and the proceeds used to improve the dividend to creditors” 
    ————————————————————————————————
   A £3m bid has previously been rejected for the company registration. (The failed £8.5m CVA offer). That’s why it was put into liquidation in the first instance. Comparable to the debt owed, it was considered unworthy. The final debt owed has still to be decided upon, so the total debt undecided as yet. 
    As the legality of ownership of the assets is now subject to the courts, holding on to it may prove to be the most financially prudent move, as the assets (or damages)may find themselves back in their(BDO) control.
   I think there is too much uncertainty now for BDO, or anybody, to do anything but wait on certain outcomes.    

View Comment

The Cat NR1

The Cat NR1Posted on1:40 am - Oct 4, 2015


GoosyGoosy 3rd October 2015 at 11:39 pm #redlichtie 3rd October 2015 at 5:14 pm #From the unquestioning ET report on the Rangers Supporters Trust AGM :“Elsewhere, Gordon Dinnie, the Rangers Supporters Trust chairman, revealed that liquidators BDO had confirmed to the organisation that it would be possible to transfer the assets back into the control of the oldco in the future. Dinnie said: “We asked: ‘Would it be possible to resurrect oldco?’ The answer we got was: ‘Yes, it would be very difficult because there is too much going on legally elsewhere at the moment, but come back to us’. The advice we have had is it is doable.” “ …………………. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, If  this RST story is true   BDO are saying that the company ownership and registration of Rangers(2012)plc can accept the assets of The Rangers Football Club Ltd and be rescued from liquidation   If this is true  Then the oldco company shell  called Rangers (2012)plc has a potential market value since there is the possibility that it may be wanted by TRFC If so Then  Rangers(2012)plc is not simply a debt ridden company in the process of liquidation It is also an asset with a value to TRFC And  if it is an asset The company registration of Rangers (2012) plc should be sold to the highest bidder and the proceeds used to improve the dividend to creditors Which begs the question Why haven’t BDO put the company registration of Rangers (2012) plc up for sale ? Is there some legal reason this isn`t possible?
=================================
So that would be the name that isn’t the holding company or the ethereal football engine room subsidiary or the Newco?

Is that First Gers, Old Gers or Feck Knows Gers? It’s not a football club with a licence (either UEFA or SFA), so does it really mean anything other to deflect from the Rangers Franchise being a long term loss maker?

Straws and clutching thereat comes to mind, and the placebo offered by SMSM treatment of Sevco may be wearing off perchance?

Are we seriously contemplating a Dallas dream episode? (that’s the tv programme, not the MiB Hugh Dallas refereeing dynasty (no, not Dynasty ffs)).

View Comment

Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on9:32 am - Oct 4, 2015


ianagain 3rd October 2015 at 11:05 pm

Sorry but I have to say again, this £10m in losses would have to come from somewhere.

The only real options being.

Sale of assets

Loans

Share / Rights issue.

All are extremely problematic.

The only other way is simply not to pay your bills and go into debt that way. That would be trading whilst insolvent, and a whole new group of people facing criminal charges. 

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on9:52 am - Oct 4, 2015


GoosyGoosy 3rd October 2015 at 11:39 pm #
Corrupt official 4th October 2015 at 1:35 am #
The Cat NR1 4th October 2015 at 1:40 am #
_______________
Given the facts that
a) the entity in Liquidation is the old Rangers FC,
b) that people in some quarters in the football hierarchy and the  business, legal and journalistic worlds in Scotland have already  over a number of years so shown their readiness to play fast and loose with Truth and Rules and Sporting Integrity
 it is pretty certain that, since it is theoretically possible for a Court to revivify  an entity that is in Liquidation, we can expect them all to continue to lie, cheat , threaten and bully in support of any move to get BDO to make an application to the Courts.
And there’s little doubt in my mind that the Courts would be entirely sympathetic to such an application.
But, let’s face it: unless something approaching full settlement of all the outstanding debts ( which might still include the Big tax debt) not even a Scottish Court would have the chutzpah to revivify RFC(IL).
And where would the wherewithal to meet those debts come from, even if there were not real doubts about who presently owns such assets as there are?
We have heard already from a Scottish financial expert that she knows of only two instances of a Liquidation being reversed. And both she, and BDO, are perfectly correct to say that it is legally possible. They couldn’t say anything else.
But it sure as hell is not very likely. Indeed, (and subject to my opening remarks) I would say  it is in the nature of the RFC(IL) situation, actually  impossible.

View Comment

Avatar

Big PinkPosted on10:19 am - Oct 4, 2015


Mike Ashley’s position is quite puzzling. On the one hand he appears to be at loggerheads with the board. On the other, the terms of his loan are clearly not being met since he has no representation on the board (if I am correct in supposing that is a requirement).

I have to assume that either his right to two seats on the board is now expired or that he chooses NOT to take them up, and that the extra revenue SD obtain from Rangers Retail keeps the Interest satisfied.

Surely this would imply that MA wants the club to survive and even thrive – unless of course the ownership of the assets and his security over the loan becomes increasingly more doubtful. Then it becomes a race to extract cash before the smelly stuff collides with the spinny thing  

As ever, more questions than answers. 

Good news for ‘Gers fans is that some level headed bloggers who question the motives of those in charge if the club are becoming increasingly vocal and influential. A reluctance to accept the spin of the various characters who have been involved is now a part of the conversation amongst the fans.

Of course those guys are being attacked on all fronts and ignored in the MSM, but I think history will prove them to be the ‘real’ RRM.

I echo the call for those guys to become part of our non-partisan collective, but we need to accept that they do not subscribe to our consensus. Stranger things happen all the time in this saga though – so who knows?

View Comment

Avatar

bfbpuzzledPosted on11:02 am - Oct 4, 2015


Lest we forget, in the Thesaurus of TRFC both loan and investment mean gift not loan or investment. It is not really a business if those kinds of loans and investments are needed annually or more often to allow activities to continue. Even when a loan is not a gift it is treated as such when for example DCK calls something from MA free money. Strong stuff needs to be ingested before one can imagine anything from MA being free not only that but it is quite clear from public information that he free money is anything but free given the situation with Rangers Retail.
There is such a thing as a gift economy but not in the traditions from which TRFC springs and it certainly does not pay for the kinds of things found in football businesses and even less for first class flights to and from the ends of the Earth.
Humpty Dumpty definitions of words are all well and good until Humpty falls from the wall. The wall is becoming shooglier by the day. I smile at shooglier it seems a truly fine Scots word. On which I ask is it a nail or peg for the famous jaikit I sense that the RRM are arguing over things like that while forgetting that nail or peg the jaikit is in danger. Couthiness over.

View Comment

The Cat NR1

The Cat NR1Posted on11:28 am - Oct 4, 2015


Would MA want to expose his associates to potential wrongful or fraudulent trading allegations? MA has the retail side sown up and the £5M could be recovered via legal action in due course either direct from the company or from individual directors if a breach of fiduciary duty can be proved.

MA will not want to kill the cash cow.

View Comment

Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on11:36 am - Oct 4, 2015


I really don’t see how Ashley loses out of this.

If the club survives he continues to collect the bulk of their merchandising income. I think they need to give him something like 7 years notice to change that.

As I understand it come 2017 he then gets the rights to what is on the front of the shirt. So he puts Sports Direct on it. Or he gets the income from whoever wants to buy that particular advertising space.

If they fold he doesn’t get repaid his £5m, so he gets to keep the intellectual property. Making it very difficult for the next new club to claim to be Rangers without paying him a licence fee to use the crests etc. I imagine that will be worth more than his original £5m.

Even if they manage to repay his £5m which looks very unlikely just now, he still collects the lion’s share of the merchandising income. Crippling the club for years to come.

Your wizard wheeze in fecking this man off by attacking his shops might not have been as good an idea as you thought at the time Messrs Houston and Chugg. Rangers only real chance is to compromise with him and basically become his plaything. As bfb said if you constantly have to put money in with no return it’s not a business, it’s a hobby.

Just to be clear, I have absolutely no time for Mike Ashley or how he runs his businesses. 

View Comment

Gabby

GabbyPosted on12:54 pm - Oct 4, 2015


In regard to Mike Ashley.
I suspect there are very good reasons for him not to take up his seats on the Board. Company Directors have legal responsibilities and he is better off being at arms length at the point where money owed exceeds the total of soft loans available.
Even when it all goes bust and all legal issues have run there course, he will still be way ahead overall. At best he has the IP and other assets at worst he loses his 5 million (which he has already made back plus some).
I keep having this dream where the point where Sevco secure the Championship intersects with the point when they finally run out of money.

View Comment

Avatar

timomousePosted on2:13 pm - Oct 4, 2015


http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/130464017071/shock-section-do-spfl-clubs-really-offer-fans
On ticket pricing and revenue maximisation. 

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on2:15 pm - Oct 4, 2015


Gabby 4th October 2015 at 12:54 pm #
‘I suspect there are very good reasons for him not to take up his seats on the Board. Company Directors have legal responsibilities and he is better off being at arms length at the point where money owed exceeds the total of soft loans available…’
_________
That sounds entirely right, Gabby:makes perfect sense for Ashley to keep his hands clean of any Board responsibilities.
( And how is dear old Brisbane?)

View Comment

neepheid

neepheidPosted on2:42 pm - Oct 4, 2015


GoosyGoosy 3rd October 2015 at 11:39 pm “The company registration of Rangers (2012) plc should be sold to the highest bidder and the proceeds used to improve the dividend to creditors”
==================
The registration of a company can’t be sold separately from its shares, so far as I know. Even when you buy an “off the shelf” company from a company registration agent, what you buy is the shares in a previously registered company. As liquidators of RFC 2012, I don’t believe that BDO can sell the registration. They don’t even own the shares.
The crucial point at this stage is the ownership of the shares. Let’s assume the creditors are paid off, and a court agrees to “sist” the liquidation. In that event, the assets of the company (or any claim to assets)  will belong to the now solvent company, which is owned by whoever owns its shares. At one time, that was Wavetower, and ultimately Craig Whyte.  I wonder who owns them now? Does anyone know for sure?

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on4:12 pm - Oct 4, 2015


neepheid 4th October 2015 at 2:42 pm #
‘… I wonder who owns them now? Does anyone know for sure?’
_________
Presumably the original shareholders and debenture holders who are among the creditors ? they hold worthless pieces of paper at the moment, perhaps.
But if someone came along to BDO and said ‘here’s £x million for the assets, pay all the creditors, restore the original directors, and with the Court’s permission, bring RFC(IL) out of liquidation and let it resume trading as RFC………
I can see a kind of logic in that, but I’m no expert, and, as said already, the amount of money needed to do that plus the amount needed to ‘resume’ trading, would be impossible for cheapskates like the various consortia to raise,  who couldn’t raise a paltry few million to buy it out of administration in 2012!

View Comment

Avatar

wottpiPosted on6:19 pm - Oct 4, 2015


As Phil Mac keeps saying T’Rangers is a loss making business without a line of credit from the bank.
John James has reiterated what I keep saying. History tells us a football club playing out of Ibrox even when it is near capacity needs and extra circa £10m per annum to keep the lights on because whether oldco or newco when they have had dash it has been squandered.
The oldco continually gambled and used any spare cash to bolster the playing squad, the newco did similar to a lesser extent and also money appears not to have been saved for a rainy day.
Lets not forget that this easy parting of cash and mismanagement of finances is what put the likes of Celtic and Hibs on the brink and a list of other clubs in administration.
Scottish Football clubs need to live within their means or have a sugar daddy willing to part with cash. Someone willing to part, with say £10m, over ten years could have a lot of fun and enjoyment supporting one of Scottish senior clubs and their associated communities. However even then it can be no laughing matter.
Trying to get someone or a group of people to part with £10m per annum is a different story altogether. Even half that amount is going to be a stretch.
Until serious austerity and sound financial management is unveiled at Ibrox then it is a Catch 22 situation with the aim of Euro riches always being just out of reach.
I wholly agree with those who say Ashley is just sitting pretty with all his ducks in a row. He has no need to make any move while money rolls in from the retail deal and he has his securities. At some point he will get his £5m, or near as damn it, back in one form or another.
He has no need to be seen as the bad guy or to have place men caught up in the boardroom shenanigans. Llambais gave everyone a warning of what was to come and I think Ashley will be happy to leave it at that for just now.
The fans pockets are only so deep. They are emotionally tied to the club playing in blue from Govan and have provided support by turning up and buying tickets but those same historical ties to the spiritual entity means they are equally wary of shares issues and other methods of which they may be fleeced for spare cash.
SDM tended to have minimal opposition from the support. If I recall the main thrust of opposition to his chairmanship was that he needed to pump even more cash into the footballing side of things. 
These days there appears to be a few more folk willing to put their head above the parapet to ask what the hell is really going on.
Unless DCK and the 3 bears can throw more money at this or pull a oligarch or billionaire from the Middle or Far East out of Warburton’s Magic Hat, the need for millions extra per season will continue and as some point the bubble will burst.
IMHO, while they will scramble on for a bit yet,  it really is just a matter of time.
The question is what will the SFA the SPFL and the associated clubs do when that happens (again!!)??
 

View Comment

Corrupt official

Corrupt officialPosted on7:34 pm - Oct 4, 2015


Phil is again reiterating the need to find funding for MP this month. If this is the case, it seems certain that November payroll is also in a precarious position. 
    That is not to say that soft loans will not be made available, but there is an awful lot of soft loan time between now and the next round of ST income.  

View Comment

ianagain

ianagainPosted on7:45 pm - Oct 4, 2015


I’m thinking Mr Robinson might be thinking, why  did I ever think coming here was a good idea?

View Comment

Avatar

upthehoopsPosted on7:54 pm - Oct 4, 2015


wottpi 4th October 2015 at 6:19 pm #IMHO, while they will scramble on for a bit yet,  it really is just a matter of time.The question is what will the SFA the SPFL and the associated clubs do when that happens (again!!)?
=========================
Perhaps my recollection is wrong, but didn’t the SPL sneak in new rules meaning clubs wouldn’t actually get a vote if this happened again, and the decision would be left to the ruling hierarchy? Of course it is the SPFL now, but perhaps my recollection is wrong as I say. 

No matter what, I think the SFA and SPFL would do everything in their power to avoid another ‘journey’ starting in division 3. Perhaps Rangers will be nationalised by the Scottish Government though. The current First Minister was 2nd in command when her then boss declared Rangers to be part of the fabric of Scottish society, despite large scale tax evasion from the state. Incredibly, numerous other MSP’s and Westminster MP’s demanded HMRC write off or greatly reduce the debt. Newspapers who condemned tax evasion on the front pages, condoned it in their sports sections. That is what clubs who DO pay their taxes are up against. 

‘Rangers’ will never be allowed to ‘die’. Not a chance of it. 

View Comment

StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on8:20 pm - Oct 4, 2015


Returning to the blog theme and the SFA…  
what has the new SFA President – aka The Scarlett Pimpernell – been up to?
Has he been planning;
a charm offensive to win over disaffected fans
building bridges through the media
addressing the massive credibility gap created by ogilvie?
You know: what is he doing to achieve the SFA pillar;
“Respected and Trusted to Lead”.
A wild guess: b#gger all!

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on9:29 pm - Oct 4, 2015


StevieBC 4th October 2015 at 8:20 pm #
‘..what has the new SFA President – aka The Scarlett Pimpernell – been up to?’
_______
Last seen and heard pre-empting his Board by declaring his belief that Strachan is the man for the job!
Maybe SFA presidents really do wield complete autocratic power over all matters, not just those affecting the fortunes of one particular club! Or  maybe working as a Vice-president with CO has given him a particular modus operandi.
Seriously, none of us can be sure of anything anyone on the 6th Floor does, except that they will not tackle the elephant in the room, namely their past wrongdoing and their present stubborn refusal to correct that wrongdoing.

View Comment

Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on10:20 pm - Oct 4, 2015


upthehoops 4th October 2015 at 7:54 pm #
‘Rangers’ will never be allowed to ‘die’. Not a chance of it. 

=======================================

Sorry but I have to disagree, they will.

The SFA, SPL, SFL, SPFL etc really don’t have a say in the matter. The club is being liquidated and when that process is completed then it will be dead.

That may take a few more years but it will happen. 

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on11:16 pm - Oct 4, 2015


Homunculus 4th October 2015 at 10:20 pm #
‘….The club is being liquidated and when that process is completed then it will be dead.’
_______
Except, of course, that a new club will still be allowed to claim to be the dead club, and the Football records will be allowed to remain falsified for as long as TRFC itself survives.
And if TRFC does not survive, what then ?
The falsification would continue if yet another new club was founded!
And it’s pounds to a penny that all the  chiselling scavenging types , examples of which we have already seen, would be sneaking around in the mucky world of low-life ‘finance’ looking for any filthy opportunity to enrich themselves by founding a new club, in the certainty of that new club being afforded a nice, wee secret agreement with our Football Authorities.
This is what the 5Way agreement has done to us. It has destroyed any belief that Sporting Integrity exists even as a concept in the minds of those charged with the governance of Scottish Football.
I mean, what price the nicely lettered board recording ,in gold lettering, a list of sporting achievements, when it’s a pure, unadulterated lie?
What kind of Lance Armstrong person would you have to be to be happy with that?
Or be happy with, in the SFA, ,as essentially a corrupt football governance regime as UEFA and FIFA may prove to be?

View Comment

Avatar

jimboPosted on11:36 pm - Oct 4, 2015


https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/04/the-court-case/

This guys knowledge of all things Rangers is beyond everyone on this site and Phil’s speculations.

And you can pull this post as well I don’t care.

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on12:44 am - Oct 5, 2015


jimbo 4th October 2015 at 11:36 pm #
“..The indictment libels charges of fraud, conspiracy to defraud, attempt to pervert the course of justice and statutory offences under the Companies Act 2006 and the Criminal Justice and Licencing (Scotland) Act 2010…”
_______
It is an absolute must for some one of us to be in that courtroom to hear what charges are made against which accused!.
We still don’t know for sure who is being charged with what!
I love the TV nature programmes!
Canaries,for instance, are lovely little birds! How sweetly they sing, and how I would enjoy hearing their sweet song when they protect their little feathers as they try o avoid being caged.
It is a very sad fact that in the world of nature each wee birdie is driven to look after itself when the chips are down.
Oh, Mrs C has just offered me a a relic from the past- a murraymint.How sweet!
Just as others suck succulent lamb, I’m sucking that murraymint.Not that there can be any connection whatsoever between canaries being about to be caged and an innocent little sweet.

View Comment

TallBoy Poppy

TallBoy PoppyPosted on3:34 am - Oct 5, 2015


John Clark 5th October 2015 at 12:44 am #
———————————————————————————————-
An absolute must, JC, and preferably with good shorthand. (Or dare I say it – an actual, proper stenographer). Many of the juicy details will be ‘lost’ or ‘forgotten’ between the courtroom and the pages of the papers. If there’s one thing the SFM could and should aspire to – it would be a verbatim report of the Trial of the Century for anybody with an interest in Scottish football.

View Comment

Avatar

upthehoopsPosted on7:19 am - Oct 5, 2015


Homunculus 4th October 2015 at 10:20 pm #upthehoops 4th October 2015 at 7:54 pm #‘Rangers’ will never be allowed to ‘die’. Not a chance of it. 
=======================================
Sorry but I have to disagree, they will.
The SFA, SPL, SFL, SPFL etc really don’t have a say in the matter. The club is being liquidated and when that process is completed then it will be dead.
That may take a few more years but it will happen.
========================
I don’t disagree, but the establishment are uninterested in legal facts. They have simply gerrymandered a situation where a new club is somehow one that is being liquidated, and worse still they have awarded all the trophies of the liquidated club to the new club. Legal facts don’t come into it. The natural supremacy felt by Rangers minded people will always be pandered to.  In football terms all non-Rangers fans in Scotland are regarded by the authorities and many in the media as 2nd class citizens. Making it clear the new Rangers is exactly that would have been a game changer, but for many people who seemingly think they are born better than others that would be too much to take. 

View Comment

Cygnus X2

Cygnus X2Posted on7:26 am - Oct 5, 2015


On court reporting…I can think of very few better uses of the funds raised by SFM than a permanent, verbatim record of the court proceedings.

View Comment

Avatar

torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on9:10 am - Oct 5, 2015


More bad news for Mike Ashley?.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34178412
Sports Direct site ‘called ambulances dozens of times’

View Comment

Avatar

Big PinkPosted on10:12 am - Oct 5, 2015


Upthehoops:

The authorities you speak of ARE the very clubs you say are regarded as 2nd class citizens.

The don’t pander to supremacists but to cash. I don’t have any doubts the same thing would have happened had it been ANY of the big five clubs.

That is not to excuse it of course, but unless we understand where they are coming from there will never be a solution.

View Comment

Avatar

torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on10:50 am - Oct 5, 2015


Phils latest:
Mr King Has A Plan.

http://t.co/a1cBKOf9RH

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on11:21 am - Oct 5, 2015


Big Pink 5th October 2015 at 10:12 am #
‘. I don’t have any doubts the same thing would have happened had it been ANY of the big five clubs.’
___________
Happily,your proposition is not likely to be put to the test:  our other big clubs are being sensibly run by competent , unified Boards.
But somehow, I feel that no other club has ever been cut so much slack as RFC was, no other Chairman been allowed such deference and such power as the one who turned out to be the biggest cheat: and that the new TRFC and its chain of directors is still being afforded a status and protection that it quite simply does not merit.

View Comment

yourhavingalaugh

yourhavingalaughPosted on11:28 am - Oct 5, 2015


Mr King has a plan
This has got to be the sales pitch of all sales pitches,either way it’s the baby bears that are going to miss out on Xmas (again),I wonder how similar this will be to the Green Bowl that was pitched a few years ago and will King be doing the pitching,I hope not if he wants to get any serious funds in,will they be questioned on the contents of this Magna Carter,no we know nothing gets questioned unless you want to sleep with the fishes,let the guessing of what amounts will be asked of the gullible and that Dave will match this £ for £,my monies on 25m.

View Comment

Avatar

torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on11:42 am - Oct 5, 2015


johnjames provides some figures:
https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/10/05/the-cash-crisis/

The Cash Crisis

Seven months have now elapsed since the underfunded board was appointed. In this period they have achieved nothing save for an emergency loan from former director Douglas Park, George Taylor and George Letham, whom collectively own 19.53% of all equity. With King’s 14.57%, bought by one or more of Taylor, Park or Letham, they have 34.1% of all equity. This breach of the 30% rule that compels directors to make an offer for the other 65.9% equity, was quickly swept under the carpet. The coup d’etat was achieved by illegal means, aided and abetted by the ambitions of senior figures at the RST and RF to join the board. These blazer-tailored sops to the so-called fan groups, who are nothing more than a King proxy, have allowed the corporate indolence and inertia to go unchecked. King’s toxicity led to no NOMAD being prepared to work with the new board. The shares were de-listed. The new board then came up with a back-room approach to gaining an ISDX listing. They appointed JP Jenkins to offer a matched bargain service, in the hope that this business might persuade their parent group, Peterhouse, to provide the listing they desperately required to raise funding. This approach failed. Attempts to raise soft loans at NARSA failed. Attempts to raise the second tranche of £5m from Sports Direct failed. It has been one failure after another from Murray, Gilligan and Robertson. They know that King was wiped out in South Africa and they have done their best to disguise this simple fact as they need to keep the fans groups’ 11% proxy on-side.

Twenty-one thousand of this season’s cards were renewed prior to the cut-off in June, which yielded £3.77m ( inclusive of v.a.t.). The most popular payment method is in four monthly tranches. Zebra finance act as factors for those who choose to pay over 10 months. The club receives this cash in four monthly payments.

June, July, August and September’s tranches of £943,740 have now been banked and spent. Those who bought season cards after the cut-off, 11,500, initiated their four monthly payments in July, which after v.a.t is circa £517,000 per month

The game against Falkirk attracted 12,000 pay at the gate customers. If we assume an average of £20 per seat, there is another £192,000 after v.a.t to add to the last tranche of ST income. The international break has come at a bad time for the underfunded board, as they have to wait until the 17th for their next tranche of pay at the gate revenue of, let’s assume £192,000, with the only other October income from the Petrofac Training Cup QF against Livingston on Tuesday 20th. I would anticipate no more than a gate of 15,000 for this game and a best case scenario income after v.a.t. of less than £200,000.

Best case scenario income for October is £1.1m. I anticipate at least half of this sum will be required to pay the cumulative deficit. with circa £455,000 to pay player’s salaries. When you add employers NI contributions for the players, all income is gone.

Should the club access their vat escrow account, they should have enough to pay our management team, MD, Auchenhowie Academy director, club doctor, our inordinately well paid youth coach Ian Durrant and other staff. But the other overheads to run Auchenhowie will not be forthcoming. So they will need a loan this month to continue.

Green’s litigation fees payments will initiate this month. His severance agreement is iron clad. Contesting it at The Court of Session this week is an exercise in creating a pretext for administration.

KIng’s lies about investment will be found out this month. Only the deep pockets of Taylor, Park or Letham can save RIFC from administration.There will be no more season card income in November. TPL will know that each month from November until May, will require a minimum of £1.5m just to break even. The last home gate of the season is on 23rd April. In May there will be no income other than early renewals. Do they have £9m to complete the season? There will be no investment in the current squad. More out of contract signings and loan deals will be required.

TPL planned to balance the books until ISDX funding kicked in. They envisaged November. The question they now face is do the have £9m and are they willing to part with it to save RIFC?

Defending Green’s petition is a sham.Administration will be spun as doing the right thing to stop Green taking a penny from the club. King’s inability to offer any loans will escape scrutiny. Level 5 will be fully deployed to control the SMSM narrative.

View Comment

neepheid

neepheidPosted on11:46 am - Oct 5, 2015


Since it’s quiet today- I see that Warburton is listed on Skybet at only 20/1 for the Liverpool job, which is quite a tribute to his reputation as a manager. I couldn’t find super Ally on the list, strangely enough. I also see that Brentford have tanked since the man in the magic hat left, they are currently sitting at 20th in the Championship.
And something that kind of niggles away at me in the background, wonderkid Lewis Macleod, signed by Warburton for Brentford from his current employers for a rumoured £850k plus add-ons in January, has yet to kick a ball for the Brentford first team. Still, football is a small world, isn’t it?

View Comment

Avatar

Billy BoycePosted on11:52 am - Oct 5, 2015


Phil’s latest:

I wonder if these same stenographers will remind the Ibrox faithful that their hard-earned ‘investment’ money will first of all go to pay for that nice Mr Green’s on-going defence costs?

View Comment

Avatar

torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on11:57 am - Oct 5, 2015


Billy Boyce 5th October 2015 at 11:52 am #Phil’s latest:
I wonder if these same stenographers will remind the Ibrox faithful that their hard-earned ‘investment’ money will first of all go to pay for that nice Mr Green’s on-going defence costs?
—————————-
Surely King will call an EGM and get the shareholders to vote not to pay.After all it’s only a holistic debt,like the £5m owed to Sports Direct.I don’t suppose he’s factored in the possibility that SD may ask for that £5m if by some fluke,King & Co actually raise it?.

View Comment

valentinesclown

valentinesclownPosted on1:00 pm - Oct 5, 2015


upthehoops 5th October 2015 at 7:19 am
The natural supremacy felt by Rangers minded people will always be pandered to. In football terms all non-Rangers fans in Scotland are regarded by the authorities and many in the media as 2nd class citizens. Making it clear the new Rangers is exactly that would have been a game changer, but for many people who seemingly think they are born better than others that would be too much to take.
———————————————————————————————–
We as supporters are suppose to accept that the team at Ibrox is the same team from over 3 years ago. The smsm know we are not fools but do not give a s*** about us. They will pander to ALL rangers men and push the myth hoping that time will be on their side and we will all accept that liquidation is not actually what happened and if if did happen it does not effect the club/team/fabric of society, institution.  
It has to be always stated repeatedly that liquidation took place and the team that was Glasgow Rangers died.  It is nothing more than sinister to pander to a fan base and disregard all others and also to ignore the blatant fact of what actually took place in Govan in June 2012. 
Hard to accept for the fans of said club but the reality is that if we all have to accept that they are the same team then football is a mockery (we know smsm are what they are and that is why websites like this exists).  The SFA are not the smsm they are there to govern our game and do not want/seem to be up to the role and as fans we can see this so our clubs must also see this. The same team myth cannot go on for the sake of the game and my sanity. Madness is what it is madness.

View Comment

Avatar

easyJamboPosted on1:01 pm - Oct 5, 2015


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) 5th October 2015 at 11:42 am #
Twenty-one thousand of this season’s cards were renewed prior to the cut-off in June, which yielded £3.77m ( inclusive of v.a.t.). The most popular payment method is in four monthly tranches. Zebra finance act as factors for those who choose to pay over 10 months. The club receives this cash in four monthly payments.
June, July, August and September’s tranches of £943,740 have now been banked and spent.  Those who bought season cards after the cut-off, 11,500, initiated their four monthly payments in July, which after v.a.t is circa £517,000 per month
 

 
I’d treat John James’ figures with extreme caution.  His claims of 21,000 ST sales bringing in just £3.77M (incl VAT) are pure fantasy.  That would work out at an average of £180 or £150 net of VAT. His calculations for the later sales of 11,500 suggest a net average of £180 with a gross figure of £216. Whatever gross or net calculation is correct the numbers don’t match reality.  

Even in 2012/13 the average take from a ST was £210, net of VAT. Prices the following season were frozen when the average achieved was £214, then they went up by 18% for the first Championship season and have gone up again by a further 5% for 2015/16. I would estimate that the average take for a ST will now be in the £260-£265 range, which, for the claimed 33,000 total sales, would net the club approx. £8.75M, which represents a pre-tax figure in excess of £10M. 

His assumption of all the ST income coming in four monthly tranches is also flawed. Many fans still pay in full up front.

Some of his other quoted figures may be more accurate, but it is difficult to accept them when the basic income calculation is so far out.

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on1:07 pm - Oct 5, 2015


Just listening to John Beattie on radio Scotland, and a little discussion on the likely economic consequences of England’s defeat by Australia in the Rugby World Cup.
Now, I don’t want to compare apples with pears,and certainly the word ‘armageddon’ was not uttered, but I get the feeling that there’s some kind of Ibroxian feeling that England were sort of too important to the competition to be knocked out.
Nobody actually said that, of course, but there was a bit of mumping and moaning about attendances at the remaining games being down, tv viewing figures down, restaurant/hotel bookings down, rugby-gear sales down…. All sounded kind of familiar.
—–
And just heard, Dundee United are seeking permission to approach T Wright.

View Comment

Avatar

SmugasPosted on1:24 pm - Oct 5, 2015


I never had any real problem with the dead club continuing narrative per se.  I fall firmly in the camp that the legal club, the touchy feely assets’nstuff went bust but that the ethereal cloudy brandy club thing continues.  Only two specific aspects of that stance bother me. 

Firstly, that I fail to understand that the authorities (the SFA for no other reason than easy to type) can record the continuation as such.  I am less bothered by the media outlets commonly using the ‘Rangers’ shorthand in every day speak, but I am less sympathetic that a club can apparently win a trophy, then be liquidated and then be recorded as winning another.  As I have said over and over – that the rules don’t explicitly mention this position (separate to any any kind of solvent transfer) is not, should never ever be interpreted as a green light to say that it is possible, it is to say that someone didn’t think it was worth writing that it couldn’t since it would have been stating the seemingly frickin obvious (at least it was pre 2013).

Secondly, the reason why I have the above problem with said recording function is this.  Its nothing to do with RFC.     If one can speculate, accumulate (debt), win, liquidate (magically removing said debt) and go again, and again, and again then your competition isn’t going to last very long.  In the long term, its gone, the way of the dodo.  In the medium term though, the perversely opposite happens, the young blood coming in are understandably drawn like moths to the silverware, to the very factor that’s causing the problem, with the inevitable result that we get a “too big to fail scenario” precisely as is about to be handed to us, yet again, in the next few months.
   

View Comment

Avatar

parnnoyedPosted on1:44 pm - Oct 5, 2015


EasyJambo, 
Why do you think JJ would distort the figures? In the absence of Accounts it seems to me that sevco finances are conjured from the ether at the great magicians whim. I simply do not believe a word of any media generated guff. I accept YOUR figures are an honest estimate by someone who is savvy regarding financials. BUT I accept NOTHING stated by or on behalf of sevco. What would JJs motive be for distorting the figures?
This entire charade has gone way beyond farcical. It now seems that to survive the peepul are going to be told to dig deep….or else!!! What a bloody mess the administrators of our SPORT have made of this.

View Comment

Avatar

torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on1:53 pm - Oct 5, 2015


Just letting you guy know,the finalists for the best footballing blogs awards have been announced and you’ll find a familiar name there unber the “Best Football Forum” category.

http://www.footballbloggingawards.co.uk/blog/finalists-released-2015/

View Comment

Matty Roth

Matty RothPosted on1:57 pm - Oct 5, 2015


 
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) 5th October 2015 at 1:53 pm #Just letting you guy know,the finalists for the best footballing blogs awards have been announced and you’ll find a familiar name there unber the “Best Football Forum” category.
http://www.footballbloggingawards.co.uk/blog/finalists-released-2015/

 

Yes I had just voted on this and was about to post the same.
Also Phil Mac G is in one of the other categories.

View Comment

Avatar

torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on2:00 pm - Oct 5, 2015


Matty Roth 5th October 2015 at 1:57 pm #
—————————–
One of our new contibutors,The Clumpany,is also listed in the Best Newcomer category,
Good luck to everyone.

View Comment

Avatar

alexander276Posted on2:02 pm - Oct 5, 2015


I know this post is built on the nonsense that Celtic and a team playing as ‘rangers’ ever get to join the English divisions, but if they did, how would the SFA react? Specifically, given the ingenuity (AKA cheating) to give life support to the Rangers myth, would they facilitate doppelgangers to play in Scotland? Would  they fast track fan based versions to fill the sectarian slots that the SFA feel are necessary for their product? (I am not implying fans are sectarian but I am arguing SFA assume proportions  are.)
The latter option might be interesting – and personally I could swallow it as long as the same club fantasy was not indulged … Ironically, given the more restricted  challenge in Scotland, the new cloned  clubs might be in the Champions League a long time before their DNA sources…. 
Will the SFA have given any thought to this contingency?

View Comment

Avatar

wottpiPosted on2:09 pm - Oct 5, 2015


parnnoyed 5th October 2015 at 1:44 pm

At the end of the day it is only a few million here or there. I wouldn’t get too bothered by the math.
The issue is still that, to survive to the end of each season, significant additional monies will be needed be that £1m or £10m. That of course makes no mention of the need to rebuild a squad for premiership glory.
DCK has admitted as much re his ‘over investing’ and ‘soft loan’ comments.
It is only a matter of time.
The key issue will be when does the current cash run out, how much is required and who is putting the cash in. It will all come out in the wash at some point.
With all the talk of £30m and inheritance money etc the Bears are gong to be very disappointed when then get their begging letters and whatever hair-brained scheme is put forward to them.
They have heard it all before from SDM and then Green and now the RRM are going to have to pull the same trick unless there is a miraculous lengthening of arms and shortening of pockets.
When the club was last on their knees the fans only managed to stump up £5m when the opportunity to invest £10m was there.
Beyond buying tickets I can’t see many having the stomach for it but what else can they do?
The brand is toxic and no money men outwith RRM are going to take a punt on this one this time around.
This time they are on their own. It is a matter of whether there are enough blue pounds out there to save the current business/club.

View Comment

Bawsman

BawsmanPosted on2:20 pm - Oct 5, 2015


John Clark 5th October 2015 at 1:07 pm #
================================
the figure I’ve heard for England exiting the world cup is £60 Million.

There really was HUGE expectation on this England team, there’s been an absolute fortune spent on them.
Canny move down here in Engurlandshire for abandoned chariots with missing wheels.

View Comment

neepheid

neepheidPosted on2:23 pm - Oct 5, 2015


easyJambo 5th October 2015 at 1:01 pm #    I’d treat John James’ figures with extreme caution.

========================
I would second that. In fact I think your figures are pretty much spot on, and on those figures they should stagger on until January. 
I’m not sure what “John James” agenda really is. I’ve been following his stuff since he started posting on the LSE site a couple of years ago. One constant in his work is a pathological loathing of King. Whether he is a genuine Rangers fan posting from the heart, or a PR plant from the Ashley side, I have no way of knowing.
He is however, extremely confident that Green’s claim for legal cover will be used by King as a pretext for administration. We’ll see soon enough whether he is right, but I have serious doubts, since I can’t see how it suits anyone.
The 3 Bears have already put in a serious amount of money, by their standards. I believe their loans are unsecured. How can administration suit them, when they would have to stand in line behind Ashley?
King may be all right, since he may well have invested nothing so far, if rumours that he has borrowed everything he appears to have put in are true. But no matter how he dresses it up, administration will finish him with the fans.
Ashley is sitting pretty, of course. He has all eventualities covered.
In any event, I just don’t see a £1m contingent liability for Green’s legal costs being a game changer. It will shorten the time before they need to call for emergency funding, maybe from January to December. On past form, someone will come up with the cash to see them through to May. I’m guessing that £5m will be enough. Now where’s that nice Mr Ashley?

View Comment

yourhavingalaugh

yourhavingalaughPosted on2:46 pm - Oct 5, 2015


One niggle I have relating to any clubs joining the English Leagues,why would they even consider a club which apart from being a financial time bomb,is one if not the only,newest club in its present league system ,with no history or a bought history,would they taint there record books on this,into the English system,somehow ,I think they might just have a bit more sporting integrity than our lot have,maybe not a lot more,or maybe SR might get a job with the E.F.A to help smooth the path,it’s about the only way.

View Comment

The Cat NR1

The Cat NR1Posted on3:14 pm - Oct 5, 2015


neepheid 5th October 2015 at 11:46 am #Since it’s quiet today- I see that Warburton is listed on Skybet at only 20/1 for the Liverpool job, which is quite a tribute to his reputation as a manager. I couldn’t find super Ally on the list, strangely enough. I also see that Brentford have tanked since the man in the magic hat left, they are currently sitting at 20th in the Championship. And something that kind of niggles away at me in the background, wonderkid Lewis Macleod, signed by Warburton for Brentford from his current employers for a rumoured £850k plus add-ons in January, has yet to kick a ball for the Brentford first team. Still, football is a small world, isn’t it?
=======================
Warburton got out of Brentford at the right time.
Half of last season’s starting XI were sold or left as free agents, and only a small amount of fees received was spent on replacements. His successor didn’t last beyond the end September, so there appears to be trouble at t’mill down Griffin Park way.

Lewis MacLeod has been hampered by injury problems since signing for Brentford and that accounts for his lack of any any gametime. He has been given squad number 4, so I wouild assume that he was in the manager’s plans at the start of the season, although that may not be the case now following the recent change in manager.

View Comment

Avatar

torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on3:24 pm - Oct 5, 2015


Assuming(as most folk have)that ST cash has already gone then TRFC have mainly only walk up income.There will be wee bits here and there but nothing significant,I think.
Therefore,not factoring in Scottish Cup games there are 14 home games left this season.Let’s say 15k pay at the gate each game.This would mean near capacity attendances.I’m working on an average,after tax & allowing for concessions of £15 per head.
This brings in a total of £3.15m over the 14 games.
Costs were estimated IIRC at circa £50k per game therefore total of £700k leaving net income of £2.45m.Last figure of estimated running costs was in the region of £2.5m per month,equating to nearly £20m by the end of May 2016.
Tthere may be variables I’ve missed but fag packet says losses between now and May could be as high as £17.55m,not £10m as reported.I’m sure the true figure is somewhere in between.This does not allow for CGs legals,if granted.How much could they be?.
Johnjames speculates somewhere between £3.75 & £5.25m per annum will be needed starting almost immediately.At an average of say £360k per month that’s another £2.8m so total losses could be as high as £20.35m with a lower figure of £12.8m.
This does not allow for any claims from creditors,etc.
This also just treads water with no future planning.Dave King will have a hard job selling this to anyone with real money.The fans can only contribute relatively small amounts.I’d think this time round,if King doesn’t put his hand in his pocket and come up with real cash,say minimum £5m,then no one else will either,

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on3:29 pm - Oct 5, 2015


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) 5th October 2015 at 1:53 pm #
‘..he finalists for the best footballing blogs awards have been announced .’
________
Holds about as little interest or significance for me as “Strictly”, I’m afraid.

View Comment

Avatar

SmugasPosted on3:33 pm - Oct 5, 2015


ref the likely ‘play’ were English entry granted to both sides, I think two feeder clubs remaining to play north of the border would be a virtual certainty.  It would serve as both an insurance policy, to maintain the young player trawl that we see currently and of course it would allow our existing blazers to maintain a business as usual perspective.  In fact the arrogant ***** would probably pitch it as a brilliant suggestion of their making.  

Disappointingly though, with regards to the colts club idea, in the event that the SFA were to grow a pair 24242424 each would simply adopt another third party club to do the same job. 

View Comment

Avatar

SmugasPosted on3:40 pm - Oct 5, 2015


TJB @ 3.24

I think you touch on the hardest sell of all this time around.  Whilst they will be force-fed to level 5 with nonsense about this is your club, under attack, just wait till we’re back, hear the CL music ya de ya, this time it is surely glaringly obvious that the thing they’re trying desperately to salvage (and irony aside I completely understand the motive) has visibly more hangers on, parasitic extensions, potentially terminal legalistics and down-right crooks (allegedly) involved than, well, the last one that they invested in.

View Comment

Avatar

SmugasPosted on3:48 pm - Oct 5, 2015


Re the investment opportunity above:  (too late to edit)

…..And that’s without mentioning the perfectly legal (we assume) bona fide no doubt record breaking one way retail contract that they saw fit to sign up to.

View Comment

Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on4:10 pm - Oct 5, 2015


neepheid 5th October 2015 at 2:23 pm # easyJambo 5th October 2015 at 1:01 pm #    I’d treat John James’ figures with extreme caution.
======================== I would second that. In fact I think your figures are pretty much spot on, and on those figures they should stagger on until January.  I’m not sure what “John James” agenda really is. I’ve been following his stuff since he started posting on the LSE site a couple of years ago. One constant in his work is a pathological loathing of King. Whether he is a genuine Rangers fan posting from the heart, or a PR plant from the Ashley side, I have no way of knowing. He is however, extremely confident that Green’s claim for legal cover will be used by King as a pretext for administration. We’ll see soon enough whether he is right, but I have serious doubts, since I can’t see how it suits anyone. The 3 Bears have already put in a serious amount of money, by their standards. I believe their loans are unsecured. How can administration suit them, when they would have to stand in line behind Ashley? King may be all right, since he may well have invested nothing so far, if rumours that he has borrowed everything he appears to have put in are true. But no matter how he dresses it up, administration will finish him with the fans. Ashley is sitting pretty, of course. He has all eventualities covered. In any event, I just don’t see a £1m contingent liability for Green’s legal costs being a game changer. It will shorten the time before they need to call for emergency funding, maybe from January to December. On past form, someone will come up with the cash to see them through to May. I’m guessing that £5m will be enough. Now where’s that nice Mr Ashley?
_______________________________
I have good reason to believe John James posts ‘facts and figures’ from unconfirmed sources and is happy to believe anything he reads that supports his theories. Regardless, though, of the veracity of his ‘facts’, I think he sounds a warning bell to the rest of the bears that they should heed and do their own research, or insist that searching questions are asked of the board by their ‘representatives’ in the various fan groups that support the board.

Whether he is a genuine bear, or a PR plant from Ashley, matters not, his overall message would appear genuine, but it is being ignored by all but a small group of enlightened supporters.

View Comment

Avatar

torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958)Posted on4:12 pm - Oct 5, 2015


John Clark 5th October 2015 at 3:29 pm #torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) 5th October 2015 at 1:53 pm # ‘..he finalists for the best footballing blogs awards have been announced .’ ________ Holds about as little interest or significance for me as “Strictly”, I’m afraid.
————————————————–
Only posted it John as SFM is one of the finalists.A wee bit recognition outwith our usual circles can only be a good thing.

View Comment

Avatar

easyJamboPosted on4:15 pm - Oct 5, 2015


parnnoyed 5th October 2015 at 1:44 pm #
neepheid 5th October 2015 at 2:23 pm #
———————————————
The “net” £210 and £214 figures I quoted were taken from the accounts for 2012/13 and 2013/14.  We also know that ST prices went up by an average 18% in 2014/15 and a further 5% for 2015/16.
Why JJ would seek to the distort those figures, I don’t know. In fact I can’t work out what he wants, other than to expose DCK as a charlatan, spiv, crook, or similar character.  

View Comment

Allyjambo

AllyjamboPosted on4:39 pm - Oct 5, 2015


easyJambo 5th October 2015 at 4:15 pm # parnnoyed 5th October 2015 at 1:44 pm # neepheid 5th October 2015 at 2:23 pm #———————————————The “net” £210 and £214 figures I quoted were taken from the accounts for 2012/13 and 2013/14.  We also know that ST prices went up by an average 18% in 2014/15 and a further 5% for 2015/16. Why JJ would seek to the distort those figures, I don’t know. In fact I can’t work out what he wants, other than to expose DCK as a charlatan, spiv, crook, or similar character
_____________________
As I’ve just written, I don’t put much store by JJ’s ‘facts and figures’, just his message to the bears! He seems quite happy to take anything he reads on internet blogs to be factual and re-post as verbatim. His overall message I think is sound, he just needs to garner more credible evidence to gain more support from the body of his club’s support, and he could start by letting his readers know where it is he gets his information from.

View Comment

Matty Roth

Matty RothPosted on4:41 pm - Oct 5, 2015


alexander276 5th October 2015 at 2:02 pm #I know this post is built on the nonsense that Celtic and a team playing as ‘rangers’ ever get to join the English divisions, but if they did, how would the SFA react? Specifically, given the ingenuity (AKA cheating) to give life support to the Rangers myth, would they facilitate doppelgangers to play in Scotland? Would  they fast track fan based versions to fill the sectarian slots that the SFA feel are necessary for their product? (I am not implying fans are sectarian but I am arguing SFA assume proportions  are.) The latter option might be interesting – and personally I could swallow it as long as the same club fantasy was not indulged … Ironically, given the more restricted  challenge in Scotland, the new cloned  clubs might be in the Champions League a long time before their DNA sources….  Will the SFA have given any thought to this contingency?

==========================

As a fan of another Scottish Club, I have to say I’d feel cheated all over again if Celtic and/or Rangers left the Scottish League only to create a second team to represent them in the Scottish League system.
That really would be the last straw for any credibility in our game I’m afraid.
If any club leaves Scotland (and I can’t see how they possibly can with separate FAs and so on) then it has to be all or nothing. Not a we’ll-have-our-cake-and-eat-it solution.
Anyway, its all fanciful nonsense based on nothing so not really worth more discussion.

View Comment

Avatar

SmugasPosted on5:39 pm - Oct 5, 2015


Matty,

Hence my post above.  Commercial wherewithal dictates that should the golden ticket come along for the chosen two, that, in the event that a residual colt club is banned within Scotland, that a feeder club (whether formal or informal type arrangement) would immediately be developed in any case.

The only thing we can do to effect this is to be ready for the inevitable SFA roll out, no doubt exclaiming that in view of integrity, good of the game etc etc that they would rather all feeder type arrangements were open and transparent etc etc, so why don’t we all just get back in our diddy boxes and accept the colt clubs that they will undoubtedly suggest. 

But I agree, not least due to the predictability of how all clubs would roll over with it, that its not really a matter worthy of discussion at the moment.

View Comment

Barcabhoy

BarcabhoyPosted on5:46 pm - Oct 5, 2015


The use of PR plants has become a nasty little side effect of the Rangers saga. Most of them are easy enough to spot, if you have some business experience. 

Where they all fall down is they are generally fairly low level. They concentrate on creating a distraction or an effect. They also engage in outright lies to attack anyone not on message. This blog has been attacked many times, very often by the same individual who keeps registering under different user names when his latest cover is blown. The great benefit you have of being lied about personally , as I was recently by one particularly ineffective z lister, is that you know they are lying. Which means you then disregard absolutely everything they have ever said or written.
What a sad and pathetic life these individuals have. Lying for cash or because they are unable to cope with reality. 

View Comment

Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on6:18 pm - Oct 5, 2015


On John James’ figures

“The game against Falkirk attracted 12,000 pay at the gate customers. If we assume an average of £20 per seat, there is another £192,000 after v.a.t to add to the last tranche of ST income.”

If he is suggesting that the £20 includes VAT (which is really the only way to read it, otherwise why make a VAT adjustment later) then I’m afraid he doesn’t get the basics right.

12,000 x 20 = £240,000.

The VAT on that would be £40,000.

So the figure net of VAT would be £200,000.

It’s not a huge difference but one would expect him to get basics like that right. 

View Comment

Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on6:27 pm - Oct 5, 2015


easyJambo 5th October 2015 at 4:15 pm

Do you mind pointing me to where you got the 18% increase from, I’m not questioning your figures, they make sense. It’s just that I did a similar exercise not long ago starting with the average price from the accounts. However I used 5% per year so got around £230 average price of a season ticket. I can’t remember where I got the 5% from.

View Comment

Avatar

upthehoopsPosted on6:46 pm - Oct 5, 2015


Big Pink 5th October 2015 at 10:12 am #Upthehoops:
The authorities you speak of ARE the very clubs you say are regarded as 2nd class citizens.
The don’t pander to supremacists but to cash. I don’t have any doubts the same thing would have happened had it been ANY of the big five clubs.
That is not to excuse it of course, but unless we understand where they are coming from there will never be a solution.
======================

All about opinions Big Pink, and you are more than entitled to yours. Personally I could never envisage the media and politicians being so compliant if Celtic had raided the public purse to the extent Rangers did, were liquidated, then all the trophies and history were handed to a new club by the SPL and the SFA. The authorities may well have wanted a Celtic in the league for financial reasons, or for that matter possibly an Aberdeen, Hearts or Hibs too. However I am sure they too would have been told to waive any right to the history of the liquidated club in return for a place in the league. 

Yes but the point is that we are both guessing. My guesswork is based on the assumption that club representatives on the SFA are not all Rangers fans, but fans of the clubs they represent. I assume yours is based on historical and cultural issues, which in my view are not really relevant amongst the people who run our clubs. In the past yes, but not any more.
BP

View Comment

Avatar

rougvielovesthejunglePosted on6:59 pm - Oct 5, 2015


So tonight Radio Scotland is once again trying to emulate Fox News in terms of being ‘fair and balanced’!
We have Kenny McIntyre presenting with a panel of the embarrassingly neutral Graham Spiers, Keith Jackson and Chick Young.

Jaysus wept, they should have just invited Richard Wilson along to make it a full house.

Our  national broadcaster is a permanent embarrassment and quite often a disgrace!

View Comment

Avatar

upthehoopsPosted on7:00 pm - Oct 5, 2015


My vote for TSM has been cast! More power to Big Pink, Tris, and of course all us members of their wonderful team!

http://www.footballbloggingawards.co.uk/blog/finalists-released-2015/

View Comment

Avatar

easyJamboPosted on7:00 pm - Oct 5, 2015


Homunculus
Homunculus 5th October 2015 at 6:27 
——————-
The 18% came from an interview with someone on the board at the time.  There were variable increases up tp 25% that season.  This season’s 5% was in their season ticket blurb from the early summer

View Comment

CrownStBhoy

CrownStBhoyPosted on7:03 pm - Oct 5, 2015


I have noted various questioning of facts, figures, events etc. made by bloggers such as jj, Phil, McMurdo and others simply because they, the bloggers, will not divulge their sources but not too often have I seen facts…etc. of evidence contradicting the bloggers, to the level required of the bloggers (notwithstanding some very notable exceptions).
Simply to say ‘I don’t have much faith’ or the like does not portray the essence of this blog as perceived, imo.

View Comment

Homunculus

HomunculusPosted on7:04 pm - Oct 5, 2015


Thanks EJ.

No need to shout though.

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on7:36 pm - Oct 5, 2015


What a jolly little TRFC-fanclub gathering on Sportsound tonight: Chick, Jackson and Speirs-and, of course, Kenny mac.
And all, I think, very distrusted and and inaccurate ‘journalists’ .
Surprise surprise, all were astonished at the fuss that Peter Houston made about a perfectly decent tackle!

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on7:50 pm - Oct 5, 2015


rougvielovesthejungle 5th October 2015 at 6:59 pm
‘So tonight Radio Scotland is once again trying to emulate Fox News in terms of being ‘fair and balanced’!
______
Sorry, rougvie, unusually for me I didn’t F5 before posting the same basic point as you!
I shoudn’t let the smug bast.rds get to me, of course. And they don’t really. The minnows don’t bother me.
What gets to me is the refusal of our BBC Radio Scotland chiefs to get rid of such prejudiced and unbalanced ‘journalists who  support the biggest lie and the biggest act of cheating that Scottish Football has ever seen.
By such refusal, they show themselves as being aligned with the offenders.
If I could spell Goebbels, I’d say his spirit hovers over Pacific Quay, and has a seat in the Sportsound studio from time to time…

View Comment

Avatar

John ClarkPosted on7:56 pm - Oct 5, 2015


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) 5th October 2015 at 4:12 pm #
‘…A wee bit recognition outwith our usual circles can only be a good thing.’
___________
Fair enough, tjb.
i saw that a number of the blogs were (or so my quick scan suggested) the blogs of particular club supporters.
Ours is infinitely superior!

View Comment

Avatar

rougvielovesthejunglePosted on8:02 pm - Oct 5, 2015


I agree entirely re the BBC, JC!

Why oh why does Keith Jackson get airtime?
Everyone and their dog knows he’s Traynor MkII.

Should be thoroughly entertaining hearing him explain away the demise of Sevco though!

View Comment

Comments are closed.