Guest Post by Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan
Good Evening,
Last night, I found myself sitting at home when an e-mail arrived from the administrator of these pages suggesting that I write a guest article for all to consider. At that precise moment my television was full of the efforts of James T Kirk attempting to escape the Wrath of Khan, who blames old James T for all his ills and troubles including what he sees as his ridiculous and malicious banishment to a distant star in the middle of nowhere— amongst other things. He seeks vengeance, causes mayhem, and refuses to recognise the rule of law.
It may seem strange, but there is much to be learned from The Wrath of Khan. For example, in the midst of the action Admiral James T acknowledges that when he first faces what is at the time an unknown adversary, in most unusual and unknown circumstances, he ignores rules and regulation and as a result “gets caught with his pants down.”
That is the consequence of ignoring rules and regulation more often than not—even for the good guys.
This is also the movie where we are introduced to the Kobayashi Maru—the supposedly impossible test in which members of star fleet are asked to rescue a stricken ship and its crew without sacrificing themselves, their starship and all members of their crew. The test is meant to be impossible to solve as it cannot be achieved—unless you change the rules of the game!
Captain’s log: Star date 2012; This is the voyage of the Starship Scottish Fitba—and we’re lost!
How can it come to be, that as we approach September 2012 the world of Scottish Football is in such a state of flux and disarray with an unbelievable amount of uncertainty and doubt about fundamental matters and principles, after months when we have seen the spiralling demise of one of our country’s biggest football clubs and the threatened disintegration of the entire system of football administration in Scotland as a result?
Surely after all that has happened in these past months the administrators would have learned to not only play by the rules, but be seen to be playing by the rules, insisting on the rules, and reinforcing the principles and platforms that those rules are based on?
Rangers PLC has ceased to be a part of Scottish football and the failure to deal with that simple fact, even more than the demise of what was regarded as an institution, is baffling in the extreme. The simple fact of the matter is this: There are rules and laws —regulations if you like —which were pre written to deal with such an event. Apply the rules and everyone knows where they stand— ignore the rules and, as James T Kirk points out, you get caught with your pants down!
So far, the rules have been half implemented half ignored. Rangers were automatically deducted points for going into Administration and properly so. They were convicted, by a properly convened independent panel, of various rule breaches, and duly sentenced as a result—again properly so. Thereafter, the company was consigned to Liquidation because it could not pay its debts- with the result that it loses its SPL share and the right to participate in football altogether— and with the further result that it left a trail of unpaid debts to creditors, including football clubs, which ran to millions of pounds.
Further, let’s be clear, The SPL and the SFL only exist with the consent of the SFA. The SFA are the ultimate governing body in Scottish Football, with the two league associations merely management tools to achieve what is supposed to be the efficient management of the game in compliance with the pre agreed rules, procedures and principles that are meant to govern football and football administration. If you wish to play under this system, then you have to accept the very same rules procedures and principles, and there should be no contracting in or out of either membership, or the laws of the game.
Yet when Rangers went into Administration, and stared liquidation in the face, The Administrators, and subsequently everyone from Bill Miller through to Charles Green stated publicly that they, together with the SFA and all of Scottish Football, were facing the Kobayashi Maru whereby maintaining the rules and the principles of the game whilst at the same time saving Rangers FC could not be achieved!
The rules had to be ignored for the sake of expediency cried some press members. Whilst principles are all well and good, you can’t apply them if it means the death of Rangers—Rangers are too big — cried others. If you apply the principles and the rules you will kill Rangers—and yourselves—said some.
It would appear that when it came to Rangers and their wellbeing, some took the view that principles were not quite so important and that, no matter what, Rangers FC had to be saved—- and there it was—the impossible task— The Kobayashi Maru!
I wonder if those who spouted that argument looked at The SFA website in any detail? Because there it states specifically that the SFA wants its coaches to educate all its young players, trainee managers and future coaches to “ Honour the game-respect your opponent- play to the rules–value sportsmanship–redefine winning- not just focusing on match results and league positions- and to help produce positive, respectful, and confident people with useful life skills“. Presumably those life skills include playing by the rules, valuing integrity, behaving with honour and respecting the position of others and so on.
Yes—It is hard to believe—but all of those phrases are direct quotes from the Scottish Football Association webpages—they are the words of the SFA themselves. How could they be seen to abandon such principles—especially when they so publicly proclaim them?
What a choice then for the SFA—abandon your principles—or lose an institution—The Kobayashi Moru! You just can’t win!
Except, Green & Co—and I include sections of the media in that phrase—clean forgot who was sitting the Kobayashi Moru test. The SFA were never faced with the test—if anything it was their rules that posed the test for whoever wanted to try and save Rangers. In the end, nobody was willing to attempt that task under the existing rules. No one was prepared to come along and pay the debts and so save the club—and at that stage it was Rangers and Rangers alone who faced the Kobayashi Moru.
Green, by way of his Servco company, then sought admission into the footballing world at a time and under circumstances which the rules dictated must result in failure. He had no accounts, no history in the game, effectively no players and nothing that would suggest that he could meet the criteria of the pre agreed rules for entry into the SFA.
It was at this juncture that the footballing executives made the error of ignoring the rules and principles that govern our game—the ones that the SFA espouse on their own website. They tried to shoe in Green against all the rules, with the result that supporters, fans, and club chairman voted them down and left them with their pants firmly glued to their ankles in Kirk speak.
The SFA, at the instigation of the member clubs from all leagues, then played the Kirk role in attempting to solve The Ibrox Kobayashi Moru by changing those rules with the agreement of the majority, so that Mr Green and his cohorts could gain membership, by effectively agreeing to allow Green’s Servco to obtain membership of the SFA on a conditional basis— with one of those conditions being that Mr Green’s company will pay ALL outstanding football debts—and make no mistake Captain Green accepted that he would play by those rules as otherwise he faced oblivion.
Here is what Green said as published on the SFA website following the signing of the 5 man agreement:
“The agreement signed today allows Rangers to be granted membership by the SFA and finally enables the Club to move forward.
“The Board, the Manager and senior executives have been working tirelessly over the last few weeks to secure the future of the Club and today is the start of that process.
“The Board has had to take some very difficult decisions to gain SFA membership, including accepting the delayed transfer ban and paying outstanding financial penalties. But we are now able to get back to playing football and plan for the new season, starting this Sunday with our match against Brechin.”
The website also reported that Servco had been granted conditional membership with one of the conditions being – “Sevco Scotland Ltd has agreed to settle all outstanding football debts to other members of the Scottish FA plus clubs under the jurisdiction of other Football Associations.”
You will note that nowhere does it state that the SFA or the SPL will pay any of the footballing debts out of any money supposedly due to the second place team in season 2011/2012 as Charles Green appears to claim – and besides it is obvious to everyone that Servco did not participate in the league during that season and so cannot be entitled to any such payment as they were not Registered with the league nor had membership of the SFA or SPL.
Rangers PLC were so registered, but if they were due any money that money would go to their Administrators. However, given that Rangers PLC were the Registered body and were convicted of offences which were described as only second to match fixing, then it follows that they should not be allowed to profit by so much as a penny in that season as a result of their rule breaking activity. Had they been expelled from the league they would have been entitled to nothing at all, and it should be remembered that it was the same Mr Green who took that situation to the Court of Session with the result that the court sent the case back to the panel with the clear instruction that such a penalty may well be appropriate and that in the circumstances the tribunal may have little alternative but to impose such a sanction.
Clearly, this is a scenario that Charles Green had to avoid. In this instance he ignored the footballing rules of not going to courts of law, and found himself with his pants down and facing the Wrath of The Court and the Kobayashi Moru whereby any technical success at the court was likely to result in certain extinction by way of expulsion from the league.
Now Captain Green seems intent on steering his starship into yet another dead end with fatal consequences. He claims that the Scottish Football debts are paid. If we ignore for the minute that he has never attempted to pay any footballing debts outwith Scotland – thus jeopradising his conditional acceptance into the SFA— his claim that it was agreed that these debts would be paid by the SPL or the SFA out of 2011/2012 prize money is derisory.
No fundamental principle of fair play, respect for opponents and attempt at honouring the game could allow for such a situation. Besides the SFA were quite clear in their statement and he has at no time demurred. From the date of the 5 man agreement onwards Captain Green undertook to pay all of the footballing debts— and if he doesn’t, then again he risks the withdrawal of his conditional membership. There is no other solution to the issue. Those are the rules he signed up to, and if you ignore the rules………….
However, this entire affair still has far to go. Where is the transparency and clarity championed by Henry Mcleish and oft promised by Stewart Regan and others? Why are the details of Green’s investors and his business plan, timescales for meeting obligations and everything else about his operation kept so secret? Given the history of those who have been in charge of Ibrox over the last twenty years, the complete failure of their administration and what is now known about their tenure there and in football generally,— and given Green’s latest public statements—, does it not occur to the SFA that the rest of Scottish football has a right to know the details of what they have been told and what Green has promised?
He has promised to clear the footballing debts and appears to be making little attempt to do that whilst his manager hails as triumphs the signing of what he sees as the best players from other teams at relatively huge expense—whilst the debts remain, and the obligations are unfulfilled.
Again that cannot be right and goes against all principles of respecting opponents and honouring the game. It is a circumstance that amounts to the antithesis of the principles espoused by the SFA and appears to be completely contrary to the mandate given to Regan and the powers that be by the clubs and fans of all divisions. Further, the current position gives the impression that Mr Green believes that he can run his company and participate in football as and how he wants, as and when he wants and under his terms and conditions.
This smacks of previous regimes that hovered around Ibrox for far too long with ultimately disastrous results particularly for Rangers fans, investors and creditors.
History cannot be allowed to repeat itself under these circumstances and the SFA must bring pressure on Green to pay the obligations that he undertook to meet within a publicly known timescale. Not only does he need to do that for the benefit of the clubs owed money—he needs to do it for the sake of the integrity of the whole of Scottish football, and he should not be allowed to build at team or field a team if he breaches the agreement. That should be the rule.
He should not be allowed to sacrifice publicly proclaimed and nationally accepted principles for the sake of his own financial expediency “for the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few—- or the one!”
Oh—and lest anyone think that it is mere trivia to link the current plight of Scottish Football with Star Trek and the Wrath of Khan, and that any such comparison is childish and of little consequence, that last quote was specifically relied upon, referred to and quoted in the Supreme Court of Texas in a decision issued on 22nd October 2010 in the case of Barbara Robinson, Individually and as Representative of the Estate of John Robinson, Deceased, Petitioner against Crown Cork & Seal Company, Inc., Individually and as Successor to Mundet Cork Corporation, Respondent— thus bringing the undoubted logic and wisdom of Mr Spock well and truly into the Law of the United States of America!
Few would argue that Spock’s logic is not a sound legal principle!
It also seems to me that perhaps Spock had some solid business advice for those who choose to ignore the rules with a view to seeking short term gain or advantage—whether that be by way of trophies, money, position or what have you—but peril their entire existence by engaging in unlawful or illegal activity. It is advice which was ignored apparently by Sir David Murray and his board and by Craig Whyte and his entire cabal. We wait to see if Charles Green will have learned the lesson that they so clearly didn’t, or whether he believes in the potential rewards of the quick fix at any cost?
Live long…….. And prosper!
Charlie Brown says:
August 20, 2012 at 13:18
32 0 i Rate This
Poor stadium announcer at Falkirk gets suspended for calling The Rangers FC “Sevco” during the half time score announcements.
Somebody at The Rangers complained and the poor sod faces his jotters.
only in Scotland would this tragedy/farce happen.
Falkirk should have told them to go do one and let them complain via the SFL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every announcer at every stadium should do the same this weekend at half time…announce them as SEVCO Franchise….
Eery Falkirk fan should report any utterance from Sevco supporters that is defamatory in anyway at their cup tie against Sevco ,whats the chances of anything being done about that.
I hate to say it, but this forum is sadly floundering badly. In the absence of news or the ability to drive credible arguments, this has simply become a place of pretty bitter anti-RFC fans badgering on about why, in their minds, “Rangers” are gone. Is that topic seriously what consumes everyone’s train of thought? If so, it’s getting very tiring and people wonder why this place isn’t a patch on RTC?
RTC knew when to bow out when they realised the story was over. You guys are intent on trying to drive home the same tired and pretty boring argument. OK, you’re not Rangers fans. People get that. You despise everything to do with them. We all get that too. But unless you lose the bitterness, this place is going to die very quickly to an even more one sided jaundiced view.
If you’re a member of a golf club that goes bust, reforms and starts again, does that “club” cease to exist? Would anyone really care?
Why don’t we continue the brilliant analyses into the likes of SDM, MBB and the intricate business dealings between them rather than bark on about “Rangers who?” all the time. It’s boring!
DON’T FEED THE TROLL 😉
A few weeks ago the guardian’s of our game had the opportunity to change our game forever and all they had to do was apply the rules to a dead club.But instead of doing this they have allowed this dead club and it’s vile support to continue to claim to be the establishment club we alway’s knew it was.They have been helped in this belief by the msm,bbc,clyde1,stv and sky who continually refer to them as rfc.Some of these so called impartial journo’s even try to tell us there is a difference between club and company when they know full well there is no such difference but to tell the truth would incur the wrath of the peepil.
Why any decent person would want to be a cheerleader for this vile club beats me unless of course they are part of the peepil themselves and will just not admit it.
Why would any decent person want to attach themselves to a club who are the equivalent to a crime family is beyond me.
Why would any decent person claim that this club have been punished enough when they know this to be blatant lies.
There is only one answer and that is there are no decent people attached to this club or surely they would have stepped up to stake thier claim and try to right the wrong’s that have been commited in thier name.
Come on guys and gals, every first year student knows that sevco is French slang for the glorious and most righteous Glasgow Rangers 😀
OK, let’s get it sorted once and for all. I posted a while back that what should happen is that every club who has been denied income by the cheating of Rangers should raise a legal claim against the club – for league position income or for lost European income. Do they exist or do they not? We’d soon find out – the court would decide.
Well, we don’t need to wait for the cheating to be “formalised” by the FTT or the investigation. There is (at least one) club right now that are owed money by Rangers, and which Sevco are refusing to pay. So come on Dundee Utd, lets get them into court and end this ludicrous “debate”.
Any DU fans online here – get a DUFFF underway to help fund this claim (and I know its only for £30k, it’s the principle that would be worth paying for), and I’ll contribute what I can. I want to see this lot describing themselves in court, like BRTH’s post above alludes to.
Seamus – believe me I’m no troll. I was on RTC from the start and have a very balanced view. But if the consensus is for people to back-slap themselves making jokes about Sevco all day long, then I’ll leave you all to it.
email sent to Falkirk in support of announcer.
Let them know how we feel.
HirsutePursuit says:
August 20, 2012 at 13:35
4 1 Rate This
HirsutePursuit says:
August 20, 2012 at 13:30
0 0 Rate This
Rather than writing to Falkirk, perhaps it would be more useful to write to the SFL and ask them to apologise for the incorrect information on their website.
Compare
http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/club/rangers/
with
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/6aa154e283748b1cc16749560781042c/compdetails
—————–
Funny how they got it right for Airdrie Utd
http://www.scottishfootballleague.com/club/airdrie-united/
and
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/6aa154e283748b1cc16749560781042c/compdetails
=====
Funny thing is that the dead club from the time of it’s incorporation 27/05/1899, to the date it changed it’s name to RFC 2012 PLC, was called THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB P.L.C.
I believe Celtic is “THE” too
Miki67 – I agree with a lot of what you say, but the trouble (and this is now nigh on possible to do anything about) is that what we are left with here is such a one-sided view on RFC that the commentary is too heavily biased in being anti-Rangers. I’m not saying that there hasn’t been very serious wrong-doing, but to blame everything that is wrong about Scottish football and Scottish society on Rangers impropriety, is just a wee bit wide of the mark.
Goosy says: August 20, 2012 at 15:26
Thanks for the Airdrie reference and their claim to a connection with their former community, which is the point I was making yesterday about the fans defining the football club, which was poo-poo’d by so many posters.
Some other football history and precedents that may interest some:
There is some evidence that Heart of Midlothian is not the same entity that was formed in 1874, the original having disbanded within a few months of it being formed and the possibility of it having consumed another club called “St Andrews Boys Club”
Source page 27/28 of “The Hearts” by Abert Mackie
http://www.londonhearts.com/images/mack02/pages/p027.htm
http://www.londonhearts.com/images/mack02/pages/p028.htm
Moreover, the current Hibernian FC is almost certainly not the same entity that was formed in 1875 and honoured in 1887 as one of the nine clubs with its name engraved on the Scottish Cup. The original Hibernian FC played its last game in February 1891 when it was disbanded. The remnants of club and its players had an abortive period as Leith Hibs, which also collapsed. There was no Hibernian (or Leith Hibs) in the Scottish Leage in seasons 1891/92 or 1892/93. A resurrected Hibernian was formed and entered and won the inaugural Scottish League Div 2 in 1893/94.
Extract from a Scotsman article 22nd October 1892
It seems the the club officials saw the new club as being different from the old one, but even I as a Jambo have no problem with Hibs claiming the Scottish cup win of 1887 as their own.
Another notable incident in Hearts early history was the sanction that was imposed on them for fielding two improperly registered “professional” players in a cup tie against Dunfermline in 1884, which Hearts won 11-1. Hearst consequently received a two year suspension by the SFA. However Hearts immediately removed and replaced all the club officials and the suspension was uplifted.
Now I wonder what precedents will be used in dealing with RFC(IL) and TRFC or will they continue to be made on the hoof.
Re the Falkirk PA announcer farce ….. Did the St Mirren tannoy announcer not more or less call the Celtic support a load of bigots at half-time in a St.Mirren-Celtic fixture a couple of years ago?
I don’t think he faced the sack, and I’m not saying he should but helps to add a bit of perspective when sensitive souls are wetting their knickers about a factually correct statement.
http://saintinasia.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/top6-tannoys-upsetting-the-opposition/
A quick look at some other controversial tannoy announcers… seriously still shocked that Falkirk could stoop so low. I wonder what term in his contract he was suspended under? Causing offence? An employment lawyer would have a field day!
the taxman cometh says:
August 20, 2012 at 16:29
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The SFL did have them as The R*ngers initially (I remember, before the start of the season, them being listed alphabetically on the BBC as this also, being last)
However, I prefer to respect their own feelings in this matter, and let them keep their original name alive; Sevco Scotland Limited – incorporated on 29/05/12 – in their long and illustrious history, lasting, for a football club, a world record (surely?) low number of days (33); recording the following worthy statistics (P1 W1 D0 L0), remaining unbeaten.
There’s not a team like the Sevco Scotland; you might think the SS is dead, but they live on.
Doh ! 63 days – stupid arithmetic – still a world record
Re: the guy from Falkirk, did we really complain about this? Well that’s absurd. What does it really matter we have been called worse. I hope the guy gets his job back and an apology from us and his bosses. This blog is getting more and more a RANGERS hating blog by the day, I mean Brogan Rogan have a word with yourself.
Lest it be said that we are non biased, let’s also recall that Celtic also sacked their announcer for making a joke against Rangers NIL…
http://www.thecelticwiki.com/page/The+demise+of+Tiger+Tim
As we rolled into Celtic Park, smiling from ear to ear and ‘ere to there, we were met with some grim news. There had been no forewarning on the radio on the way to the ground so it was quite a shock when Tiger Tim announced that there would be a minute’s silence before the game got underway. Was it one of the players? Directors? One of the club’s legendary figures? There was no time to speculate as he went on to declare the silence was “in memory of Rangers’ European Cup campaign, which was declared dead earlier today in Bulgaria.”
And how we laughed! He’d got us hook, line and sinker!! No-one had seen it coming it all. THIS was what a match announcer was all about, getting it right up Them at every available opportunity.
But it was not to be. In a move the Bulgarian Communist Party would have approved of, the Tiger disappeared. Not only did he not return for half-time, he never returned again. At a time when the old Board did nothing right, they’d got it wrong again! Kiljoys could not be added to the ever expanding range of expletives and abusive terms they were being subjected to.
Fan Club says:
August 20, 2012 at 16:33
Miki67 – I agree with a lot of what you say, but the trouble (and this is now nigh on possible to do anything about) is that what we are left with here is such a one-sided view on RFC that the commentary is too heavily biased in being anti-Rangers. I’m not saying that there hasn’t been very serious wrong-doing, but to blame everything that is wrong about Scottish football and Scottish society on Rangers impropriety, is just a wee bit wide of the mark.
____________________________________________________________________________
Too biased against a club claiming the history of another with a list of crimes unmatched by any other club in the world?
I don’t think so.
TSFM
Congratulations. We’ve been discussing the name for SEVCO on here for a few days. Now everyone is talking about it!
Even inadvertantly, ahead of the crowd.
The reason for the shift in focus from RTC is in fact the dishonest conduct of the authorities who took a soon to be liquidated club and transferred its share to a new entity on no basis within their rule book whatsoever. thus the corruption spread from RFC and its agents within the SFA and SPl who covered up their activity to the entirety of the game – all of those SFL clubs who voted them in at all – the shameful 5 way agreement – hence the bitterness.
Any decent person would not want to be associated with the cheating fraud and tax theft of RFcC nor with the rampant aggressive paranoia and rabble rousing of its successor – so the myth of the decent Rangers fan has gone.Moreover, though, to my eyes anyway any decent person in possession of the facts surrounding the shenanigans that allowe dthese events to happenshould also not wish to be associated with the duplicity, rule breaking and cheating of those who run the scottish game – nor with any of the clubs that have allowed it to happen.
I firmly believed that only a total boycott of all Scottish football by all fans could have saved the game. Too many fans went back and supported their clubs thereby giving this fraud credibility and legitimacy. They did so filled with bitterness and rancour towards the governing body and wth a burning sense that they had been cheated – but they went back and that was where the error lay.. This bitterness and rancour is the essence of the game now – it is all it has left. Eventually no-one will go – the game ‘s decline will be precipitate in the years to come. It will die in mutual recrimination and bitterness.
As BRTH points out in his blog here it is the abandoning of the philosophy of the game here that is the root of the problem – and I believe will be the agent of its destruction as a major player in scottish life – which is very sad.
Fan Club 15:58 / 16:16
The very reason that RTC stopped allowing posts on his blog.
Like you say ‘unless you lose the bitterness, this place is going to die very quickly’
I am all for free speech but continually repeating the same thing over and over again just sounds like their propaganda machine and we surely do not want to mirror them?
Like everyone’s Gran use to say ‘If you’ve nought to say, say nought’
where do companies house stand on phoenix companies claiming liquidated reputations and history, do they have to wait for the liquidators to make it an issue
Good article in the daily Norwegian paper Dagbladet about the death of Rangers and their seeming reincarnation. The picture at the top of the article says it all. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/08/19/sport/fotball/rangers/skotsk_premier_league/23028721/
ABOUT THE SCOTTISH FOOTBALL MONITOR
The purpose of The Scottish Football Monitor is to pay homage to, and carry on the work of the groundbreaking RangersTaxCase blog (RTC). The aim of the Scottish Football Monitor is to cast a questioning and watchful eye on Scottish Football officialdom and the compliant mainstream media (MSM).
Scottish football, in the immediate wake of the Rangers FC liquidation, faces great challenges. The MSM have provided no sensible checks or balances on the actions of the authorities. The Scottish Football Monitor aims to provide those checks and balance.
The cosy relationship that has existed between the media and people at the top of Scottish Football has dissuaded those who may otherwise be moved to blow the whistle on wrongdoing. The Scottish Football Monitor aims, through time, and by winning the trust of ordinary fans, to fill a gap in the football media in Scotland that has been up to now filled only by RTC.
The Rangers FC saga, its consequences, and consequences of the accompanying stream of untruths and misdirection fed to us by the MSM is far from over. RTC was successful in getting the previously buried truth of the Rangers tax case into the mainstream despite a hostile MSM reaction. The Scottish Football Monitor hopes to use the skills and expertise of those in our community to a cast light on matters that those in authority would have concealed, or at least present alternative arguments to those being presented as having none.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Let’s not forget the purpose of TSFM and why we are on here. Hopefully in time we’ll have a valuable resource that will fulfil that statement. We could end up with something really important but we need to remain focused and stop the posts sliding into irrelevance, which I think is happening again. Sorry.
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/6aa154e283748b1cc16749560781042c/compdetails
================
I see from this link that accounts are not due to lodged until end of February 2014.
Given that whitstheirname have not produced accounts this year, it seems to me that it will be rather a long time between financial reports.
Is that normal?
Is it because it is a new entity and the accounting period does not include the pre-Sevco periods?
The laws on useing a liquidated companys name can be found here
http://www.purnells.co.uk
2012 fc the only Scottish club that wants to claim the trophy history of a totally different club
Yet refuses to claim the DEBT HISTORY of the said club
Sums 2012 fc and their new found fan base up IMO
Dignity ,they couldn’t spell the bloody word
Easyjambo
Re the 11-1 vote – It is my suspicion that a deal was done with another club, while RFC(IA) were still in membership of the SPL, that would ensure that any vote to change from 11-1 would be vetoed, should Celtic also wish to avoid change..
The club / person I have in mind is Kilmarnock / Michael Johnston who abstained from the vote on the newco being admitted to the SPL on 4th July. In return, I believe that Michael Johnston may well have received support from RFC(IA) and Celtic in his desire to be elected to the SPL board, which he duly achieved on 16th July.
——————————————————————————————————————————
If someone has done a deal I couldn´t see it being MJ/Killie unless there was a tangible monetary payback.
MJ was the main voice behind the seeking of a change in the voting structure.
At the time, his club along with 9 others stood to gain financially from a change and I can´t see a seat on the board of the SPL being of such tangible benefit.
A board that when important decisions loomed, abidicated their responsibility.
I think the looming reconstruction may mean that the provincial clubs miss out on the opportunity to make this change in the present SPL(1).
How they´ll be able to influence things going forward remains to be seen but I hope that Peter Lawwell isn´t able to bully them in any way and that terminology such as the “Gang of Ten (Eleven) isn´t re-introduced.
Just to add to my post at 18.14
I wonder if Celtic will be happy to see Rangers rejoin the top tier in a league reconstruction for the voting structure aswell as direct financial reasons.
If it meant that they could retain SPL cash distribution at similar levels going forward then the commercial people at the PLC would surely say yes.
As far as CL qualification it wouldn´t make any difference for 2/3 years as Rangers can´t play in Europe.
This would be offset by a support who would strongly disagree.
Perhaps Celtic would just keep quiet and not publicise this hypothetical stance.
mickd @17.33
I think the banner at the top means you can buy everybody sitting down for 399 euros,you get the manager free.
So this weekend I found out that two of my best friends have bought season tickets for the team currently playing at Ibrokes. One odf them was a renewal, the other was a first time buyer.
I only spoke with the first time buyer, briefly. Now bear in mind this is a guy I have known for years and would count as one of my closest amigos.
The reason we only spoke about it briefly, was it became very clear, very quickly, that there was not going to be much, if any, meeting of minds on this subject.
My views have been informed by RTC and TSFM. His have been formed by the MSM and talking with other fans of the team in blue from the south side of Glasgow.
I was really quite depressed by the discussion. I would have been happy to argue the toss and agree to disagree. Whatever – we have had that sort of banter for years.
No, the depressing thing was how uncomfortable we both obviously felt.
It seemed to me that there was an acute sense of embarassment about the club that was manifesting itself in a fairly uncharacteristic (for him) attitude of blind defiance. I got the feeling of someone defending the undefensible because there was nowhere left to turn. Maybe the defiance was not entirely blind – but there were certainly serious blind spots.
Is this what happens when you are backed into a corner. Would I respond differently if it was my team, my community, that was in their position? Who knows? I hope I never find out.
I was finally left with the feeling that this debacle has reached the stage where there is such a strength of feeling, such polarisation, that normal levels of open discussion and debate are becoming hard to find.
I was reminded of politics in the USA where I have found people to be incredibly cautious about expressing any sort of political opinion outside of the most trusted inner circle of family and friends.
To my mind, this depressing situation is a direct consequence of the failure of our footballing authorities to apply the rules of the game without fear or favour. The opportunity for a fresh start has been lost. Unless Lord Hodge / BDO apply the most radical corrective surgery, the opportunity has gone. As other posters have said above, the legacy of that failure is the further poisoning of community relations in this country.
My pal is still a good guy. We are still pals. I will happily go for beers and chew the fat. We will probably not talk about Scottish football much though…
Sad eh?
I don’t agree that I would follow my team no matter what – as sevconians appear determined to. In fact such is my disgust at Celtic’s failure to use its influence to prevent this abomination occurring I no longer even take an interest in my club or its results, and all Celtic did was not prevent an injustice or speak out about it – they certainly hadn’t ripped the game apart by years of cheating and destroyed themselves in the process and then been resurrected by a conspiratorial cabal.
Had my team done that then I would have destroyed any mementos of such a club and publicly apologised for their behaviour and vowed to condemn any other fans of such a club that continued to support them. I genuinely believe most fans of most other clubs would have rejected their clubs had they behaved in such a manner.Rangers fans are different. They are wedded to their own entitlement and supremacy and for the most part are blind to reasoned argument.
I was away for a while (if you’ve never been to Ljubljana, you don’t know what you’re missing); now I’m back and had kind of expected the world to change. It hasn’t.
The reason this blog may be faltering is that ‘normal service’ appears to have resumed. The switcheroo has been accomplished with the most serious bare-faced effrontery and Div 3 has been promoted as the most watchable, most competitive, most glorious of all the known ‘soccer’ leagues in the world. Well, apparently 33,000 ST holders of (The) Rangers think so.
The Scottish Soccer Franchise is in operation. We’ve all lost, I’m afraid.
Fan Club – I have mentioned such thoughts myself before. There is undoubtedly a strong contingent of posters from the other side of Glasgow here, but a blog like this was always going to end up kind of one-sided. Let’s face it – the CFC crowd are the most likely to get something done about the RFC(?) situation, simply by weight of numbers. Take the bad with the good.
You just have to keep an eye on them and point out when they’re going a bit over the top (or conveniently forgetting the achievements of teams other than their own).
I myself am here specifically to remind people that only one Scottish team has won two European trophies and that, actually, two teams have been ever-present in the top league.
😉 🙂
On the fence says: August 20, 2012 at 18:14
I accept your alternative view on MJ, but it was he who recently (1st Aug) said that there were no current plans to change the voting structure
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19087489
One other point is I personally hate the term “provincial clubs”. I much prefer “diddy clubs” as it better reflects the financial disparity between Celtic and the rest, rather than attempt to regionalise clubs. Scotland is too small to have provinces in any event. Being pedantic, Celtic and TRFC would be included among the provincial clubs as the term should refer to places outwith the capital. 🙂
Thornlyboy says:
August 20, 2012 at 19:20
I was away for a while (if you’ve never been to Ljubljana, you don’t know what you’re missing);
——
Have to agree – we camped there twice in July and August and think it’s a marvellous little city. 🙂 The roads in Slovenia are brilliant as well. Makes the UK look 3rd world.
Jack Kool says:
August 20, 2012 at 12:28
5 0 Rate This
I have read this blog and RTC since this whole saga/debacle/nonsense began however this is my first post …
——-
Nice post Jack. Those thoughts have been expressed by a few and it’s good you point it out again. As I see it, it could also be a combination of slow news on the various outstanding court and tax cases plus the they-seem-to-getting-away-with-it angst that’s fueling the frustration.
That singing nonsense did my heid in many years ago. I’ve followed from a geographical distance but this latest episode is the final nail in the coffin as far as I’m concerned. It could have been a ‘great club’ if it had tackled the glaring ugliness in its midst, but in reality, it never has. The current pronouncements border on megalomania.
But good luck. I’m hoping for some truth and justice too.
Easyjambo
I was unaware of MJ saying this.
Would be strange just to suddenly drop the idea.
My guess is that the governing bodies would have requested clubs to get on with starting the football playing season and as far as possible a return to “normality”.
However I´d expect the issue to be raised in the not too distant future, although how possible league reconstruction would influence matters I don´t know.
I can´t see the diddy teams forgetting about a chance (and justly IMO) to increase revenue share.
mickd says:
August 20, 2012 at 17:33
11 0 Rate This
Good article in the daily Norwegian paper Dagbladet about the death of Rangers and their seeming reincarnation. The picture at the top of the article says it all. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/08/19/sport/fotball/rangers/skotsk_premier_league/23028721/
————-
A fine resume of the main points. The headline is amusingly Brechinesque: ‘That’s How Rangers Ended Up Behind the Hedge’
Are there police surrounding Hampden and tanks at all the gates?
No
Then why are the SFA, SPL and SFL cowering in their bunkers?
nowoldandgrumpy @ 20:21
They’re pre-occupied with their latest cunning plan which is :-
How can we arrange for Sevco to be declared winners of the SPL this season, and tell UEFA that they will be entered into the Champions League, because they really are RFC and we have told everyone that
Ridiculous I know, but you can bet you’re bottom dollar they are up to something
ncredibleadamspark says:
August 20, 2012 at 17:33
ABOUT THE SCOTTISH FOOTBALL MONITOR
The purpose of The Scottish Football Monitor is to pay homage to, and carry on the work of the groundbreaking RangersTaxCase blog (RTC). The aim of the Scottish Football Monitor is to cast a questioning and watchful eye on Scottish Football officialdom and the compliant mainstream media (MSM).
————————————————————————————————————————-
Let’s not forget the purpose of TSFM and why we are on here. Hopefully in time we’ll have a valuable resource that will fulfil that statement. We could end up with something really important but we need to remain focused and stop the posts sliding into irrelevance, which I think is happening again. Sorry.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No need for any apology as far as I’m concerned. I’m in complete agreement.
This website is rapidly becoming just another (anti Rangers) website. I thought it was created for a higher purpose.
Whatever happened to Alex Thomson’s statement a few months ago that we would be hearing something from Craig Whyte very soon? If there’s one person who’s been the quietest in the whole saga, it appears to be the MBB. What’s he up to?
Why should the club = company issue matter?
Several reasons actually.
Firstly, Charles Green is attempting to get transfer fees from clubs that have signed the ex-Rangers players that refused to transfer to his club.
The SFA’s articles say that in such circumstances, the player registrations revert to the association and transfer fees may be paid to the administrator or liquidator of the old club. As I understand it, the Stephen Davis transfer fee has been used to pay the football creditors of Rangers FC(IA) as part of the 5-way agreement that says Sevco’s Rangers should pay these debts. That money should have been given to D&P and distributed to creditors in the prescribed order. That money has nothing whatsoever to do with Sevco’s Rangers.
Secondly, Sevco’s Rangers have been given the SFA membership previously held by Rangers FC(IA). Sevco’s Rangers have no Club Licence – as that cannot be transferred. No-one is asking how long Sevco’s Rangers can operate without a Club Licence. The SFA’s articles say:
There is a blatant attempt to dupe the people into believing that the Club Licence held by Rangers FC(IA) has transferred to Sevco’s Rangers. It has not and can not.
Thirdly, it has been suggested that the SFA’s lawyers have been negotiating with Charles Green over the scope of the EBT investigation and the possible sanctions that the panel may apply if/when Rangers FC(IA) are found guilty of playing incorrectly registered players over a 10-year period.
This investigation has absolutely nothing to do with Sevco’s Rangers. The club that is accused of these offences will soon be no more. If found guilty, Sevco Rangers have no right of appeal, because it is not that club that is in the dock. It is the titles won by Rangers FC(IA) that are at risk. Sevco’s Rangers have won nothing yet.
tearsofjoy @ 20:28
It’s an over simplification to say that this is becoming an anti angers website
What Sevco are called, how they are perceived and treated, is fundamental to understanding the disgraceful fix that has been perpetrated by the governing bodies along with Green, on Scottish football
Until justice, real justice is served, Sevco and the governing bodies will remain the centre of attention, and it is understandable, that given all that has gone on, there will be some strong opinions and feelings expressed
HirsutePursuit @ 20:34
Thirdly, it has been suggested that the SFA’s lawyers have been negotiating with Charles Green over the scope of the EBT investigation and the possible sanctions that the panel may apply if/when Rangers FC(IA) are found guilty of playing incorrectly registered players over a 10-year period.
=======================================================================
If this is true, Charlie is playing a dangerous game
He could be accused of operating as a shadow officer of RFC (IA), or alternatively accepting that Sevco will be subject to any punishments imposed as a result of the investigation
Could get interesting
HirsutePursuit says: August 20, 2012 at 20:34
Secondly, Sevco’s Rangers have been given the SFA membership previously held by Rangers FC(IA). Sevco’s Rangers have no Club Licence – as that cannot be transferred. No-one is asking how long Sevco’s Rangers can operate without a Club Licence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Which means that they do not have a real license of their own. So have they, in fact, just borrowed a second hand license until such times as the governing bodies can fabricate a real shiny new license?
So does this stopgap license affect insurance ?
If I want to drive on the motorway I need a proper license – I can’t use a provisional and I certainly can’t borrow my mate’s license. Even if I think I can.
campsiejoe, @ 20.52.
I think it has already been proved that he has been acting as a shadow director ,Did D&P not tell us that Yorkie was going to act for Oldco,albeit unpaid,to facilitate the takeover ?.
He was here there and everywhere representing Oldco ,he turned up at meetings where he had no obvious part to play.He said on many occasions that he was there to help and support Sally.
If he was not acting on behalf of Oldco why was he there?.
I have just heard Sally say that Edu might be going to Ipswich,Sally said, “there is an offer on the table but i dont know if HE (not,us,not Rangers )has accepted it ” Who owns the registrations of these players? Why is he not talking about a transfer fee ?
Picture the scene in the Ticketus boardroom the CEO is after blood,why? his company has just been diddled out of £25/27 million depending on which reports you go on.If Craig White gets away with this then the reputation of Ticketus could be damaged beyond repair, they need to get their money back somehow ,but it is tricky given the situation that RFC is in.
So a plan is hatched to try and at least save face in the cut and thrust of the investment business, enter Charles Green he knows a thing or two about football clubs the ideal man for the job.
Give Charlie the funds to buy the assets at a knock down price after ensuring that a CVA is rejected (HMRC seen to that) ensure that Charlies backers are hand picked and are acceptable to a compliant SFA and voila the game is on.
The only sticking point was that the newco were not allowed into the SPL and ended up in the third division, this is where Charlie seizes his chance and plays the bigot card, soon he has the sevconians eating out of his hand,world record crowds 33,000 season tickets purchased and the promise of a share issue Ticketus might even make a few bob out of it and recoup their investment.
Or are TIcketus just going to write off the £25million and put it down to experience.
How long did it take the SFA to act against Romanov rants. It was pretty quick to fine him but now silence from the spl and sfa against regular CG rants.
even rockin regan has lost his tweets.
I’m here at the sfa
They’re breaking every rule I’ve ever made.
we fined the hearts for the very same;
how can we not do it once again?
And I’d love to ignore you
Give everything to you.
But I could never now be true blue
[Chorus]
So I say,
I think i’d better leave right now
Before I fall any deeper.
I think i’d better leave right now;
before i get on my tweeter.
Somebody better get me out
Before I fall any deeper.
I think i’d better leave right now.
I gave thumbs up to Zilch for the following:
“To my mind, this depressing situation is a direct consequence of the failure of our footballing authorities to apply the rules of the game without fear or favour. The opportunity for a fresh start has been lost.”
This, to me, is the most disappointing aspect of the summer.
Jack Kool says:
August 20, 2012 at 12:28
I have read this blog and RTC since this whole saga/debacle/nonsense began however this is my first post.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Jack, I can assure you that I am no Celtic supporter – anything but! However, I am a bit stunned that you feel that the blog is tending towards being anti your team. I have posted very infrequently, partly because it was so difficult to tread throught the minefield to get something on RTC. Having said that, it was probably a good thing that I was not able to post on occasion. I struggle to find the words to describe how I feel about the way in which the whole situation has been “managed” by the powers that be. The way in which Mr. Green and Mr. McCoist (I am being deliberately low key in how I refer to these individuals) have behaved in the last month or two is reminiscent of the North Korean handbook on how to ensure that black is regarded as white.
These two gentlemen have attacked institutions which have bent over backwards to avoid applying their own rules to deal with a rogue member.
In a word, your “team” are Anathema!
The one small positive aspect I take from your post is the fact that you refer to yourself as non-religious – not that religion has anything to do with Sevco or its rabid predecessor.
As this debacle unfolds can someone tell me who I can sue for the low value of my CFC shares?
Tic 6709 @ 21:11
Up until the CVA was rejected, you could just about justify his involvement, but that is no longer the case
Like everything that has happened with this, it defies logic
I completely agree with you and until those responsible for the cheating or crimes or whatever you want to call it are brought to account or justice then that frustration will continue to exist.
There is no question that Rangers historically have failed miserably to counter and change the sectarian element that is prevolent amongst not only the fans choice of sing song but also their ignorance towards people of different creeds and colours.
Bearing all this in mind i suppose its hardly surprising that many a football fan are taking a dim view on the current regime and i suppose only time will tell what their intentions and motives are however i think when you’ve supported a club for 25 years its very difficult to turn it off like a tap so to speak.
This does not mean you condone the wrong doing or don’t feel the shame that comes with every bad headline or dirty deed exposed, but life goes on and for every decent fan out there who has had to go through the turmoil of the last year or so through no fault of their own,they are not to blame for the lies, deceit and mismanagement of a few who it has now become clear never had the best interests of the football club at heart.
There has been a lot of talk on the site saying that it has become an anti rangers site and that this is wrong in some way.
If there is another story out there about corruption in scottish football then please point us in the right direction and i’m sure the many excellent posters on here will get on the story straight away.
At the minute there is no bigger story and as far as i am aware no other club has behaved in the manner of dead club or rosemary’s baby.
If this site stopped talking about rosemary’s baby we would be facing the real prospect of the guardian’s of our game shoe horning rosemary’s baby into the spl next season.
So back on topic Falkirk fc should be ashamed of themselves for suspending the announcer when charlie,ally,sandy and the massed choirs of the sevco franchise can say and do whatever they want about every body and no one tells them to shut up.
The guardian’s have done thier best to ressurect this corpse but as long as this site keeps on thier case then we will preveil.
campsiejoe @ 21.29. Totally agree campsie.
Now if only Craigie Boy had made the following slight adjustments to his statement on Feb 14 2012 could all this fuss about Club v Company have been avoided ?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
The holding company of Rangers Football Club statement in full read: ” The holding company of Rangers Football Club, Rangers Football Club plc has today announced it has filed a notice of intention to the Court of Session in Edinburgh to appoint administrators.
Rangers Football Club will conduct its business as usual and will not be in administration until the holding company, Rangers Football Club plc decides whether to formally proceed with an application to appoint administrators.
“Until such time, the Rangers Football Club will not face any sanction from the football authorities in terms of points deduction within the Scottish Premier League.
“Sanctions such as a 10-point deduction will only apply if the holding company, Rangers Football Club plc proceeds with the appointment of administrators. It is expected to be 10 working days before a decision is made whether to appoint administrators.
“Suppliers to the holding company, Rangers Football Club plc and its business partners and sponsors are currently being informed of today’s announcement and arrangements between the Rangers Football Club plc, suppliers and creditors will continue as normal.
“There will be no impact on season ticket holders and shareholders. Season tickets will continue to be valid for this season and any commitment to a season ticket for next season is secure.
Rangers Football Club plc is continuing to have dialogue with HMRC in the hope that a formal insolvency procedure can be averted and has put forward pragmatic proposals.
The owners of Rangers Football Club plc , The Rangers Football Club Group believe there is no ‘realistic or practical’ alternative to this course of action in order to secure the long-term future of Rangers Football Club.
“Should administration take effect, the Rangers Football Club plc is proposing a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA). Rangers Football Club plc wishes to seek the protection of a moratorium from HMRC action whilst a CVA proposal is made to creditors.
Rangers Football Club plc has put forward a CVA proposal to HMRC in which creditors would be paid and provision made for the legacy HMRC case, commonly known as the ‘big tax’ case.
This, if approved by creditors within a month, would minimise any points deduction and enable Rangers Football Club to participate in European football next season.
The Club has engaged Duff and Phelps, a specialist restructuring practice to assist in finding a solution to the present position.
Should the holding company Rangers Football Club plc proceed into administration, the appointed administrators will in all likelihood implement a cost-cutting programme and staffing levels will be reviewed across all departments of the Rangers Football Club plc business.
,,,,,,,,,,,
Craigie didn`t make these adjustments because he would be telling lies
He would be claiming that Rangers Footlball Club plc is a holding company for Rangers Football Club which is untrue
A holding company can only hold another company or several other companies
Legal representation
Now we know that clubs and national associations aren’t allowed to go to court over disputes (Sevco of course are seemingly exempt from that rule too), but does this mean fans’ groups can?
Could TSFM find a sympathetic lawyer who could be retained (preferably for free, but maybe a fund could be set up?). The role would be for TSFMs solicitor/lawyer (what’s the proper Scottish terminology?) to write to any football authority or msm organisation that is going against its rules of operation, either articles of association etc, or meeting professional, editorial or publishing standards. A regular poll could be arranged to decide on issues to be raised.
Could we ask firms to tender? Could final year students be suitable?
Maybe one letter a week from TSFM? How much would that cost? The potential benefit would be that TSFM would be able to be to prove that it had given notice to an organisation that it should review a decision, or to improve their actions against standards or regulations. Future instances of the same would mean that those organisations would find it difficult to defend such breaches of rules or standards when or if the s@@t hits the fan.
I’m not so naive to think that one or two letters would make an immediate difference, but some sort of formalised notification that we’re watching, and having an audit trail so to speak might just help folk think twice, especially if TSFM solicitors letters were also made public.
Tic 6709 says:
August 20, 2012 at 21:11
campsiejoe, @ 20.52.
I think it has already been proved that he has been acting as a shadow director ,Did D&P not tell us that Yorkie was going to act for Oldco,albeit unpaid,to facilitate the takeover ?.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sorry to repeat post but this appointment of CG was formally included in the CVA proposal, though apparently not dependent on the success or failure of the CVA.
“4.21 From 6 June 2012, Charles Green will be appointed to assist in the day-to-day management of the business of the Company (at no cost to the Company or the Joint Administrators), in order to manage the ongoing trading costs of the Company and allow for a smooth transition in ownership.”
Whatever about this site being anti- Servco, it most certainly is not anti rangers. How can you be anti something that is dead and gone!
redetin @ 21.49.
Cheers mate,my memory is not as bad as i thought. Is that statement enough to recognise Yorkie as a Shadow Director ?.It’s good enough for me,but i know nothing about business law.
Good Evening,
For those of you who are old enough to remember Max Bygraves– let me tell you a story.
For those of you who are too young– see google or You Tube for Max and the significance of” let me tell you a story”.
Part of my office is shared with another business which is opertaed by a friend of mine. This business has its main office in London, but my friend and one sole employee are based in Glasgow, with both having desks in the one room. The employee– a tall muscular fitness fanatic– is a keen and on occasion very funny Celtic supporter. My friend,a lovely gentle guy with a heart of pure gold is a lifelong Gers fan.
These two have known and one another and worked together for years. My pal, the Rangers fan, played a bit of football with Drumchapel Amateurs at one time and loves the game– although he admits himself that he has in the past not enjoyed going to Ibrox– partly because of what he sees as negative football– partly because of the atmosphere.
Either way, the two get on and always have gotten on famously. Whenever I am in the same office ( admittedly not often ) there are two celts to the sole Rangers fan, yet there is never any suggestion of the Celtic contingent ganging up on the loan Ranger– partly because he is our friend, and partly because you can clearly see that he is hurt by what he sees happening to his football club— and we have no wish to make that hurt greater.
For the record, the Rangers fan is no kind of bigot, no kind of offensive guy or anything like it and has been to all my family parties and celebrations including christenings, communions and so on.
Quite separately my God mother is married to a long standing Rangers fan. A lovelier more gentle human being you could not meet. They have 3 girls– one of whom is a mad keen Celtic fan ( like her mum ) and her twin sisters keen Rangers fans like their dad.
I won’t go into the personal circumstances of this family but lets just say that the girls- all adults now- are just as gentle as their dad with no notion of ill feeling towards anyone or any other team– though they do want their team to win.
Against this background of lovely people– good people— there is a difference of opinion afoot.
My friend in the office has renewed his season ticket. He feels that he needs to support what is left of Rangers because otherwise all sense of the club he has supported for more than 50 years will definitely die.
On the other side, The two girls and their dad have taken the deliberate decision not to renew their season tickets. They may go along to the odd individual match– but they are not prepared to make the committment for seson tickets.
None of these people that I have mentioned have any great faith in Charles Green or whoever runs things from Ibrox. All feel cheated by Murray & Whyte. The family prefer to spend some hard come by cash on a holiday rather then give it to Charles and crew— the guy in the office feels he has to do something and Charles is the only game in town.
These folk are confused– they don’t know who to believe or who to trust. They can’t rely on any press releases or statements and have no faith in what is said in the papers.
Is it a New Co claiming ownership of Rangers’ assets? Is it a new club altogether? Who are they giving money to if they buy day tickets or season tickets? Who has invested in the company now running what purports to be Rangers? They don’t know and no one at the SFA appears willing to tell them anything.
There may be loads of us who support other clubs who have an interest in what happens at Ibrox, but people like these– and there are thousands of them who are quiet, unassuming, non complaining types– who have been lied to, deceived, misled and who feel let down— they are the people who are being really let down by Green, Regan and others.
They are being let down today even more than they were let down by Murray and Whyte– because now the SFA are allert to the situation and have supposedly been given all the facts which people like this have not to be entrusted with.
For those who say that this site has become an anti Rangers site– I agree— there is a very strong sense of dislike from many on here towards the team cuurently calling themselves Rangers.
There may be many reasons and motives for this. I am a Celtic fan– I enjoy a Celtic victory and will celebrate such times with like minded Celtic fans. What I won’t do is lord it over friends that are Rangers fans– or any Rangers fans– because the joy of winning can only really be known by those who have tasted defeat at times.
However— some may well be very angry at what happens at Ibrox and will complain like hell at the lack of transparency and the shifty shennanigans of Charlie the Donkey seller.– for me part of the anger and any anti Rangers sentiment comes from the fact that I don’t like seeing my pals and other good people being lead up the garden path and and lied to—– by anyone!
have the press asked CG and d&p if ticketus have any involvement with newco rangers or any existing contract with newco ? Has as much as a single pound made its way to ticketus directly or indirectly.
Maybe ticketus has just decided that the 24 million can be donated.
Remember Ticketus could have bought Rangers assets , an built a newco business with a 30 million turnover for 5.5 million. Are we to believe that instead they wrote of 24 million, lol.
Schneeb says:
August 20, 2012 at 21:10
5 0 Rate This
HirsutePursuit says: August 20, 2012 at 20:34
Secondly, Sevco’s Rangers have been given the SFA membership previously held by Rangers FC(IA). Sevco’s Rangers have no Club Licence – as that cannot be transferred. No-one is asking how long Sevco’s Rangers can operate without a Club Licence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Which means that they do not have a real license of their own. So have they, in fact, just borrowed a second hand license until such times as the governing bodies can fabricate a real shiny new license?
So does this stopgap license affect insurance ?
If I want to drive on the motorway I need a proper license – I can’t use a provisional and I certainly can’t borrow my mate’s license. Even if I think I can.
==============================================
Sevco have NO Club Licence.
They have a borrowed/stolen SFA membership; but have no Club Licence.
In normal circumstances, a club applying to play in the SFL or SPL would not be given SFA membership if they could not comply with the Club Licensing conditions. It is “interesting” that the SFA granted Sevco membership without complying with the Club Licencing conditions.
In normal circumstances, a club playing in the SFL or SPL who already held a Club Licence but who no longer complied with the criteria, would have that Club Licence suspended. Have the SFA given Sevco a timetable for compliance? It would be “interesting” to know what that timetable would be.
In normal circumstances, a club playing in the SFL or SPL, who were without a Club Licence for six months would be stripped of SFA membership. It seems highly improbable that Sevco can comply by January. Is the 6-month rule to be ignored too?
Could the confidential part of the sale of the assets to Sevco, possibly be to hide a relationship with Ticketus?
Now that would be something that you would want to keep secret is it not.
Stanblack says: August 20, 2012 at 22:2
have the press asked CG and d&p ……….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I agree but have the press really asked anything at all? All we get are soundbites and hearsay.
Apart from the few notable exceptions there is no challenge to any statement coming from sevco or the governing bodies.
BRTH
Once again you manage to express how I feel much more eloquently than I could ever manage.
Thank you.
HirsutePursuit says: August 20, 2012 at 22:49
Thanks for the clarification – it just beggars belief.
Perhaps a journalist could pursue these circumstances – that would be novel!
nowoldandgrumpy says:
August 20, 2012 at 20:21
Are there police surrounding Hampden and tanks at all the gates?
No
Then why are the SFA, SPL and SFL cowering in their bunkers?
———————————————————————————–
Because the SPL are ‘het’ for their failure to apply proper governance over the last few years.
Because the SFA are ‘het’ for their failure to apply proper governance over the last few decades.
Because the SFL have a brand spanking new golden goose in their possession and they have no intention of letting it go.
The very survival of major players within these structures now depends upon everyone else ‘moving on’ as quickly and quietly as possible.
Same applies to the west coast media cabal that is Record/Sunday Mail/Herald/Evening Times/BBC Scotland Football Dept.
That’s why calls to ‘move on’ are premature. Effectively, we’ve only just dealt with the issue of a football license to date. The major issues that are the FTTT, BDO appointment/investigation and serious fraud investigation have yet to come to pass. Not to mention the SPL EBT investigation.
Any calls to ‘move on’ are nothing more than the equivalent of a request to depart the train at the next stop. This despite their being at least another three stops before we reach the terminal.
Haywire says:
August 20, 2012 at 21:28
…… These two gentlemen have attacked institutions which have bent over backwards to avoid applying their own rules to deal with a rogue member.
————————————————————————
Sums the whole scandal up in one sentence.
Captain Haddock says:
August 20, 2012 at 21:49
Legal representation
Now we know that clubs and national associations aren’t allowed to go to court over disputes (Sevco of course are seemingly exempt from that rule too), but does this mean fans’ groups can?
Could TSFM find a sympathetic lawyer who could be retained (preferably for free, but maybe a fund could be set up?). The role would be for TSFMs solicitor/lawyer (what’s the proper Scottish terminology?) to write to any football authority or msm organisation that is going against its rules of operation, either articles of association etc, or meeting professional, editorial or publishing standards. A regular poll could be arranged to decide on issues to be raised.
Could we ask firms to tender? Could final year students be suitable?
Maybe one letter a week from TSFM? How much would that cost? The potential benefit would be that TSFM would be able to be to prove that it had given notice to an organisation that it should review a decision, or to improve their actions against standards or regulations. Future instances of the same would mean that those organisations would find it difficult to defend such breaches of rules or standards when or if the s@@t hits the fan.
I’m not so naive to think that one or two letters would make an immediate difference, but some sort of formalised notification that we’re watching, and having an audit trail so to speak might just help folk think twice, especially if TSFM solicitors letters were also made public.
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This has been proposed a few times.Getting a legal rep to challenge the SFA/SPL/SFL etc on behalf of the fans,who are not,believe it or not,anti RFC(IA) as such.It’s all about playing by the rules,not bending/breaking/re-writing to suit one club,a club that by its actions has caused damage to Scottish Football that will take years to repair.Fans of ALL CLUBS(except one),proved over the past few months that if they acted as one,they could influence the future.Club chairmen,SPL/SFA/SFL reps will be remiss to forget this.If they try to push through a reconstuction plan for the benefit of one club and not the whole of Scottish Football then they’ll have learned nothing.
Fans must keep the pressure on.I don’t get any satisfaction from agreeing that the fans should be looking at ways of employing legal representation to possibly/probably question the Scottish Football authorities wrt the possible/probable corruption,accepted conflict of interest cases,dual contracts,fit & proper tests,etc.
We should expect honesty,fairness,”sporting integrity” as the base standard,not something to be negotiated because we may ,or may not,lose a few quid.
If setting up a fund and employing a spokesman/lawyer to take the fight to remove corruption from our game into the courts then so be it.I feel it’s the only way we’ll get this story out to the general public.The MSM will try to ignore the biggest scandal to hit Scotland in a sporting sense ever and funnily enough,in a business sense(well tell me how many other businesses in Scotland going bust owing £140m have not really been mentioned on the business pages).
The very fact that we’re discussing this possible course of action leaves me feeling sad.
Getting away with it, all my life.
Do something wrong, get away with it. What do u do. You carry on regardless.
It’s natural, it’s physical.
And if you keep doing wrong and keep getting away with it, well…..Oh Superman…
Nietzsche: thus spoke Zarathustra. I can so I wil!
Don’t stop me now. And even if you could. I will survive cos I am stong I am invincible I am Irn Bru man.
Let’s face it. We’re P$ss!&£ against the wind here !
SFA/ SPL are not coming out with any comments for a reason – No news is good news to them.
They’re quite happy to see the season out, watching on as “Sevco” win the 3rd Div, or quite possibly do the Double with “The Ramsdens Cup”. Can’t wait to see that final on Alba on a Sunday Afternoon.
We’re all getting taking for a ride here ! Something’s going on in the background.
Mr Green seems to be untouchable at the moment, despite every bit of propaganda that come’s out of his Ilkley Moor Bar T’at !
It appears to me that the agenda seems to be eminating from our “Own” Authorities. Unfortunately for them, Mr Green appears to be a loose cannon. If he kept his mouth shut, he might just get away with it,
I bet Reagan & Doncaster are at this minute bedded down in a Bunker not far from Hampden, with their hand over their ears just waiting for the next piece of nonsence from Mr Green !
Charlie, they’re bending over backwards to help you. Why do you still keep trying to kick them in “The B&££$” ?
Oh, I’ve just realised the answer to that question. Charlie doesn’t actually want sevco to succeed !
Charlie wants what’s best for Charlie and his “Mysterious” mates. i.e. a quick profit, and out of Dodge quickstyle.
If Sally, Durranty, etc really claim to be the Die-Hards they are, they should be more concerned looking around their shoulders !