Guest Post by Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan
Good Evening,
Last night, I found myself sitting at home when an e-mail arrived from the administrator of these pages suggesting that I write a guest article for all to consider. At that precise moment my television was full of the efforts of James T Kirk attempting to escape the Wrath of Khan, who blames old James T for all his ills and troubles including what he sees as his ridiculous and malicious banishment to a distant star in the middle of nowhere— amongst other things. He seeks vengeance, causes mayhem, and refuses to recognise the rule of law.
It may seem strange, but there is much to be learned from The Wrath of Khan. For example, in the midst of the action Admiral James T acknowledges that when he first faces what is at the time an unknown adversary, in most unusual and unknown circumstances, he ignores rules and regulation and as a result “gets caught with his pants down.”
That is the consequence of ignoring rules and regulation more often than not—even for the good guys.
This is also the movie where we are introduced to the Kobayashi Maru—the supposedly impossible test in which members of star fleet are asked to rescue a stricken ship and its crew without sacrificing themselves, their starship and all members of their crew. The test is meant to be impossible to solve as it cannot be achieved—unless you change the rules of the game!
Captain’s log: Star date 2012; This is the voyage of the Starship Scottish Fitba—and we’re lost!
How can it come to be, that as we approach September 2012 the world of Scottish Football is in such a state of flux and disarray with an unbelievable amount of uncertainty and doubt about fundamental matters and principles, after months when we have seen the spiralling demise of one of our country’s biggest football clubs and the threatened disintegration of the entire system of football administration in Scotland as a result?
Surely after all that has happened in these past months the administrators would have learned to not only play by the rules, but be seen to be playing by the rules, insisting on the rules, and reinforcing the principles and platforms that those rules are based on?
Rangers PLC has ceased to be a part of Scottish football and the failure to deal with that simple fact, even more than the demise of what was regarded as an institution, is baffling in the extreme. The simple fact of the matter is this: There are rules and laws —regulations if you like —which were pre written to deal with such an event. Apply the rules and everyone knows where they stand— ignore the rules and, as James T Kirk points out, you get caught with your pants down!
So far, the rules have been half implemented half ignored. Rangers were automatically deducted points for going into Administration and properly so. They were convicted, by a properly convened independent panel, of various rule breaches, and duly sentenced as a result—again properly so. Thereafter, the company was consigned to Liquidation because it could not pay its debts- with the result that it loses its SPL share and the right to participate in football altogether— and with the further result that it left a trail of unpaid debts to creditors, including football clubs, which ran to millions of pounds.
Further, let’s be clear, The SPL and the SFL only exist with the consent of the SFA. The SFA are the ultimate governing body in Scottish Football, with the two league associations merely management tools to achieve what is supposed to be the efficient management of the game in compliance with the pre agreed rules, procedures and principles that are meant to govern football and football administration. If you wish to play under this system, then you have to accept the very same rules procedures and principles, and there should be no contracting in or out of either membership, or the laws of the game.
Yet when Rangers went into Administration, and stared liquidation in the face, The Administrators, and subsequently everyone from Bill Miller through to Charles Green stated publicly that they, together with the SFA and all of Scottish Football, were facing the Kobayashi Maru whereby maintaining the rules and the principles of the game whilst at the same time saving Rangers FC could not be achieved!
The rules had to be ignored for the sake of expediency cried some press members. Whilst principles are all well and good, you can’t apply them if it means the death of Rangers—Rangers are too big — cried others. If you apply the principles and the rules you will kill Rangers—and yourselves—said some.
It would appear that when it came to Rangers and their wellbeing, some took the view that principles were not quite so important and that, no matter what, Rangers FC had to be saved—- and there it was—the impossible task— The Kobayashi Maru!
I wonder if those who spouted that argument looked at The SFA website in any detail? Because there it states specifically that the SFA wants its coaches to educate all its young players, trainee managers and future coaches to “ Honour the game-respect your opponent- play to the rules–value sportsmanship–redefine winning- not just focusing on match results and league positions- and to help produce positive, respectful, and confident people with useful life skills“. Presumably those life skills include playing by the rules, valuing integrity, behaving with honour and respecting the position of others and so on.
Yes—It is hard to believe—but all of those phrases are direct quotes from the Scottish Football Association webpages—they are the words of the SFA themselves. How could they be seen to abandon such principles—especially when they so publicly proclaim them?
What a choice then for the SFA—abandon your principles—or lose an institution—The Kobayashi Moru! You just can’t win!
Except, Green & Co—and I include sections of the media in that phrase—clean forgot who was sitting the Kobayashi Moru test. The SFA were never faced with the test—if anything it was their rules that posed the test for whoever wanted to try and save Rangers. In the end, nobody was willing to attempt that task under the existing rules. No one was prepared to come along and pay the debts and so save the club—and at that stage it was Rangers and Rangers alone who faced the Kobayashi Moru.
Green, by way of his Servco company, then sought admission into the footballing world at a time and under circumstances which the rules dictated must result in failure. He had no accounts, no history in the game, effectively no players and nothing that would suggest that he could meet the criteria of the pre agreed rules for entry into the SFA.
It was at this juncture that the footballing executives made the error of ignoring the rules and principles that govern our game—the ones that the SFA espouse on their own website. They tried to shoe in Green against all the rules, with the result that supporters, fans, and club chairman voted them down and left them with their pants firmly glued to their ankles in Kirk speak.
The SFA, at the instigation of the member clubs from all leagues, then played the Kirk role in attempting to solve The Ibrox Kobayashi Moru by changing those rules with the agreement of the majority, so that Mr Green and his cohorts could gain membership, by effectively agreeing to allow Green’s Servco to obtain membership of the SFA on a conditional basis— with one of those conditions being that Mr Green’s company will pay ALL outstanding football debts—and make no mistake Captain Green accepted that he would play by those rules as otherwise he faced oblivion.
Here is what Green said as published on the SFA website following the signing of the 5 man agreement:
“The agreement signed today allows Rangers to be granted membership by the SFA and finally enables the Club to move forward.
“The Board, the Manager and senior executives have been working tirelessly over the last few weeks to secure the future of the Club and today is the start of that process.
“The Board has had to take some very difficult decisions to gain SFA membership, including accepting the delayed transfer ban and paying outstanding financial penalties. But we are now able to get back to playing football and plan for the new season, starting this Sunday with our match against Brechin.”
The website also reported that Servco had been granted conditional membership with one of the conditions being – “Sevco Scotland Ltd has agreed to settle all outstanding football debts to other members of the Scottish FA plus clubs under the jurisdiction of other Football Associations.”
You will note that nowhere does it state that the SFA or the SPL will pay any of the footballing debts out of any money supposedly due to the second place team in season 2011/2012 as Charles Green appears to claim – and besides it is obvious to everyone that Servco did not participate in the league during that season and so cannot be entitled to any such payment as they were not Registered with the league nor had membership of the SFA or SPL.
Rangers PLC were so registered, but if they were due any money that money would go to their Administrators. However, given that Rangers PLC were the Registered body and were convicted of offences which were described as only second to match fixing, then it follows that they should not be allowed to profit by so much as a penny in that season as a result of their rule breaking activity. Had they been expelled from the league they would have been entitled to nothing at all, and it should be remembered that it was the same Mr Green who took that situation to the Court of Session with the result that the court sent the case back to the panel with the clear instruction that such a penalty may well be appropriate and that in the circumstances the tribunal may have little alternative but to impose such a sanction.
Clearly, this is a scenario that Charles Green had to avoid. In this instance he ignored the footballing rules of not going to courts of law, and found himself with his pants down and facing the Wrath of The Court and the Kobayashi Moru whereby any technical success at the court was likely to result in certain extinction by way of expulsion from the league.
Now Captain Green seems intent on steering his starship into yet another dead end with fatal consequences. He claims that the Scottish Football debts are paid. If we ignore for the minute that he has never attempted to pay any footballing debts outwith Scotland – thus jeopradising his conditional acceptance into the SFA— his claim that it was agreed that these debts would be paid by the SPL or the SFA out of 2011/2012 prize money is derisory.
No fundamental principle of fair play, respect for opponents and attempt at honouring the game could allow for such a situation. Besides the SFA were quite clear in their statement and he has at no time demurred. From the date of the 5 man agreement onwards Captain Green undertook to pay all of the footballing debts— and if he doesn’t, then again he risks the withdrawal of his conditional membership. There is no other solution to the issue. Those are the rules he signed up to, and if you ignore the rules………….
However, this entire affair still has far to go. Where is the transparency and clarity championed by Henry Mcleish and oft promised by Stewart Regan and others? Why are the details of Green’s investors and his business plan, timescales for meeting obligations and everything else about his operation kept so secret? Given the history of those who have been in charge of Ibrox over the last twenty years, the complete failure of their administration and what is now known about their tenure there and in football generally,— and given Green’s latest public statements—, does it not occur to the SFA that the rest of Scottish football has a right to know the details of what they have been told and what Green has promised?
He has promised to clear the footballing debts and appears to be making little attempt to do that whilst his manager hails as triumphs the signing of what he sees as the best players from other teams at relatively huge expense—whilst the debts remain, and the obligations are unfulfilled.
Again that cannot be right and goes against all principles of respecting opponents and honouring the game. It is a circumstance that amounts to the antithesis of the principles espoused by the SFA and appears to be completely contrary to the mandate given to Regan and the powers that be by the clubs and fans of all divisions. Further, the current position gives the impression that Mr Green believes that he can run his company and participate in football as and how he wants, as and when he wants and under his terms and conditions.
This smacks of previous regimes that hovered around Ibrox for far too long with ultimately disastrous results particularly for Rangers fans, investors and creditors.
History cannot be allowed to repeat itself under these circumstances and the SFA must bring pressure on Green to pay the obligations that he undertook to meet within a publicly known timescale. Not only does he need to do that for the benefit of the clubs owed money—he needs to do it for the sake of the integrity of the whole of Scottish football, and he should not be allowed to build at team or field a team if he breaches the agreement. That should be the rule.
He should not be allowed to sacrifice publicly proclaimed and nationally accepted principles for the sake of his own financial expediency “for the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few—- or the one!”
Oh—and lest anyone think that it is mere trivia to link the current plight of Scottish Football with Star Trek and the Wrath of Khan, and that any such comparison is childish and of little consequence, that last quote was specifically relied upon, referred to and quoted in the Supreme Court of Texas in a decision issued on 22nd October 2010 in the case of Barbara Robinson, Individually and as Representative of the Estate of John Robinson, Deceased, Petitioner against Crown Cork & Seal Company, Inc., Individually and as Successor to Mundet Cork Corporation, Respondent— thus bringing the undoubted logic and wisdom of Mr Spock well and truly into the Law of the United States of America!
Few would argue that Spock’s logic is not a sound legal principle!
It also seems to me that perhaps Spock had some solid business advice for those who choose to ignore the rules with a view to seeking short term gain or advantage—whether that be by way of trophies, money, position or what have you—but peril their entire existence by engaging in unlawful or illegal activity. It is advice which was ignored apparently by Sir David Murray and his board and by Craig Whyte and his entire cabal. We wait to see if Charles Green will have learned the lesson that they so clearly didn’t, or whether he believes in the potential rewards of the quick fix at any cost?
Live long…….. And prosper!
“About TSFM
The Scottish Football Monitor is following the lead of RangersTaxCase in an attempt to hold the Scottish mainstream media to account and to question. If they do not ask the difficult questions, we will.”
I have been working abroad for the last couple of weeks. I would be interested to know what has been happening. What difficult questions have been asked? To whom? What were the answers?
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
August 21, 2012 at 21:39
De Profundis says:
August 21, 2012 at 21:30
A belated Sorry about your laptop, Essex Old Bean.
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
August 21, 2012 at 21:16
Back in the days of RTC it was common to see references to masons and their perceived hand in Scottish football, why the sudden change?
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Don’t remember that many and how they were accepted by the regular posters.I’m sure you’ll post links though.
If there’s any other long term contributor who can back De Profundis here,let me know and I’ll apologise.
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What difference does it make how they were accepted by regular posters, its about your opinion.
What difference does it make if any other “long term contributor” backs De Profundis or not, its your opinion that matters, are you apologising for not agreeing with others??
Its a blog, everyone has their own opinion, others might not agree, so what.
If you find it either abusive or offensive then complain, no matter if it happened previously or not.
Tic 6709 says: at 16:36
“I could guess that it’s because they know the truth”
Yes, they know the truth, even Ally knows the truth.
Just because they can’t admit it, doesn’t mean that they don’t know it.
And no matter how much bluff, bluster and bravado they give it, when they’re lying in bed, contemplating the hideous events that have befallen them, deep down they know, and they also know that we all know they know.
And until justice comes calling which maybe, just maybe, will give me back my game that they and the authorities have so horribly sullied, then my knowledge of their unspoken knowledge will have to do for me.
(apologies if that comes across as being anti-Sevco/RFC, but they and their supporters have pee’d me right off lately).
The Invisible Line says:
August 21, 2012 at 19:43
1 0 Rate This
Starofdavid says:
August 21, 2012 at 18:08
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. (told ya first on here anyway, can i claim copywrite lol)”
Ok, what I MEANT to say was I think I was the first on here to reference Goebbels re repeating lies ad nauseum. Apologies if that’s incorrect.
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Nope I did it many months ago in RTC under Exiled Celt – copyright is mine
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Not trying to be bolshie my friend but I said on here…..lol
Starofdavid says:
August 21, 2012 at 22:14
The Invisible Line says:
August 21, 2012 at 19:43
1 0 Rate This
Starofdavid says:
August 21, 2012 at 18:08
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. (told ya first on here anyway, can i claim copywrite lol)”
Ok, what I MEANT to say was I think I was the first on here to reference Goebbels re repeating lies ad nauseum. Apologies if that’s incorrect.
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Nope I did it many months ago in RTC under Exiled Celt – copyright is mine
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Not trying to be bolshie my friend but I said on here…..lol
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Two men said they’re Jesus, one of them must be wrong. (Dire Straits)
Guys,
This is not RTC. We have neither his credibility, his inside information, nor his status. TSFM is not pretending to be ground breaking. We want to give a voice to the sane majority of people who currently don’t have one now that RTC has shut up shop.
Fans of ALL clubs are welcome, and if we are to gain any credibility, we need to leave micro-discussion of old WoS enmities totally out of it.
I’d rather we lost 90% of our readership than our credibility.
Let’s be clear about this. There should be no debate about referees or decisions made either for or against ANY team. The moderators do not give up their time to be wading in off topic nonsense about either referees, historical injustices visited upon teams by quasi-religious organisations, or schoolyard namecalling which contributes absolutely zero other than causing offense. In other words, trolling.
If you can’t post within those parameters, then expect your post to be removed without any comment. This is quite definitely NOT an anti-Rangers blog. It’s purpose is to try to keep telling the truth where the MSM are peddling mistruths.
We are losing posters on here because they do not want to be a part of the rabble.
We cannot moderate every minute of the day,so if you see a post which is offensive, please ignore it. It will be dealt with.
This has not been made a post because it is not up for debate. Thanks to our regular contributors for their understanding.
PL
Please can we stay focused. Someone earlier posted incredibly important questions re players registration – the Edu and Goian stories today are very very odd. if they leave for nothing – has the Creditors been shafted (since they never tupe’d?) or are The Rangers letting them go to save salaries? or are they letting them go as part of the February agreement of Rangers(ia) players to take a pay cut if they could leave for pennies.
this is the real football / tax / legal issues we should be focused on
p.s. great night for Scottish football tonight – well done Celtic – and good luck to Motherwell & Hearts on Thursday
Hear hear TSFM….! Credibility v readership : credibility wins, although I suspect that readership will follow anyway (I speak for this reader & I hope others) 🙂
Well said PL.
Let’s get back on topic guys, there is more than enough actual corruption for us to get our teeth into.
And please try to be civil and courteous, especially to people you disagree with.
Torrevieja Johnbhoy says:
August 21, 2012 at 21:39
2 0 Rate This
De Profundis says:
August 21, 2012 at 21:30
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There were constant references to the masons on RTC from one or two posters but not like the one that has caused offence tonight.
TSFM says:
August 21, 2012 at 22:39
Let’s be clear about this. There should be no debate about referees or decisions made either for or against ANY team. The moderators do not give up their time to be wading in off topic nonsense about either referees, historical injustices visited upon teams by quasi-religious organisations, or schoolyard namecalling which contributes absolutely zero other than causing offense. In other words, trolling.
We are losing posters on here because they do not want to be a part of the rabble.
We cannot moderate every minute of the day,so if you see a post which is offensive, please ignore it. It will be dealt with.
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Don’t understand how you can monitor scottish football and not discuss refereeing decisions.!!
I agree it should not divert the blog, however new news is hard to find at them moment.
Posters are being lost because there is no news breaking from any sources, nuclear or otherwise.
An offensive post can be offensive to some people and a debatable point to others, how far do you wish to moderate??
Yes, congratulations to Celtic, and especially Commons who I had a tenner on for 1st scorer! 🙂
I hope they finish the job and Scotland has a CL representative for this season.
smallteaser says:
August 21, 2012 at 22:52
1 0 Rate This
TSFM says:
August 21, 2012 at 22:39
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Personally I don’t post much here because I don’t have much to say and there isn’t much happening anyway.
I hardly know any of the poster here now and most of the old ones from RTC appear to have changed their names or disappeared.
What’s happened to Hugh, is he here under a different name or has he chucked it since RTC stopped allowing comments, anyone know?
Thanks
Folks,
Anyone who has a suggestion for improving the way we run things should post directly to Admin on the Contact Us pages.We will try to get back to you asap.
If the blog becomes the discussion matter on the blog, is that not like siblings marrying?
smallteaser says:
August 21, 2012 at 19:38
1 3 Rate This
CE says:
August 21, 2012 at 18:19
How many times?
This is not the place to complain about refereeing decisions or perceived bias from match officials. Everyone can highlight their team being on the end of bad decisions, with Diddies undoubtedly suffering more than most, but to continually harp on about them, and link them to some form of grand conspiracy, merely makes us look like a bunch of crackpots.
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If there is perceived bias why is this not the place to discuss??
[TSFM: It’s not the place. there are other blogs and forums available]
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The supposed difference between this site and others is that this site is not all Celtic and everything is not seen through green tinted specs, therefore different perspective is put on refereeing decisions.
Therefore I would have thought this site would the correct place to look at “perceived bias”.
If the Craig Levein blow up had to happen at Ibrox again tomorrow then this would not be the correct site to discuss it??? Thats the same as the head in the sand MSM.
smallteaser says:
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unless you’ve got clear evidence of consistent bias over time for/against a particular team or teams, all you’ll do is pull this forum off topic as very fan at one time or other has felt they’ve been diddled by a refereeing decision. You’d end up packing the forum with accusations that would be unprovable and just reduce parts of it to cap-lock shouting matches. Refs make mistakes – very often – and so do fans regarding what they think they see during games. So as I said best avoided unless you really have cast iron evidence.
To TSFM, apologies for raising this after your earlier post feel free to delete but I thought it had to be said.
CE says:
August 21, 2012 at 22:50.
Let’s get back on topic guys, there is more than enough actual corruption for us to get our teeth into.
CE says:
August 21, 2012 at 22:55
Yes, congratulations to Celtic, and especially Commons who I had a tenner on for 1st scorer!
I hope they finish the job and Scotland has a CL representative for this season.
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Back on topic there then eh!!!!
smallteaser says:
August 21, 2012 at 23:04(Edit)
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You are entitled to complain about refereeing decisions if you like. This is not a forum for voicing those opinions. I shouldn’t have to explain this, but here goes;
An opinion on a refereeing decision is subjective, and usually partisan. It is not in itself an indication that Scottish football is corrupt. Changing the rules to accommodate an organisation on the other hand is easier to judge objectively, and a corrupt practice in itself.
You can disagree with me, but please take it somewhere else. No debate which feeds partisanship is appropriate here.
Fifer says:
August 21, 2012 at 18:48
If my pubs name is still the same for over a 100 years and has went bust, plenty different owners and hey, still the same name over the door, it’s not called a Newco !
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My pub’s name has stayed the same, has had many different owners over 30 years and each successive owner has succeeded in lowering its standards to the extent that it it now has 6 customers at 9 o’clock on Friday night. Could this happen to a football club that doesn’t change its ways?
I posted at the outset of the scottish football monitor that focus must be maintained otherwise the site would ddescend into a rabble, that is what appears to be happening. Stop it, just stop it…as i said this is playing into the hands of jabba etc. who can play “the long game”…the focus really is quite narrow, it is about what is going on in govan, at hampden and in the papers…refereeing decisions tc can be discussed elsewhere (the pub preferably) wee diversions of a “jumpers for goalposts” type can be fun and interesting but the “aye youse did” “naw we didny” stuff is diluting our influence…follow the money!!!
Every single one of us has the future of this board in our hands
If we turn it into just another football discussion board, then there will be no future for it
We all know the aims of the board, and believe me there is still a lot going on that we are probably not fully aware of
Don’t take your eye off the ball, as it bounces around the corridors of Hampden, and the various MSM outlets
Every statement, every article has to be questioned, and if it’s not accurate or truthful, we need to make as much noise as we can
Over the course of the next few months, there will be revelations that those with vested interests would rather not have revealed, and when that time comes, this board will be needed, as will all posters of all persuasions
A very good night to all of you
tc+ etc
Well said campsiejoe 🙂
tc=etc…sorry!!! (wee smiley thing)
Re the Tupe’d players. I saw a comment in tonight’s evening times from one of the young players who walked away. He said that he was told that if he trained and was paid by Sevco, then he would have been considered as Tupe’d over.
Given that some of the players who have recently walked away for free, trained and were paid by Sevco that comment seems strange. It therefore begs the question if these players were registered with Sevco in the first place?
Just a bit of catching-up.
Can someone please summarise for me which non-applications of, or bendings of, the rules for the benefit of T’Rangers Football Cloob have taken place to date.
Much obliged, and I’ll take the answer off the air.
The Glen says:
August 21, 2012 at 00:16
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After reading your post it is obvious there are decent Rangers fans out there, its just a pity that their voices aren’t heard more often.
It that was the case I doubt your club would be in the position they are.
For fans like you I wish Rangers nothing but the best, but I fear if Rangers come back to the SPL in however many years we will all be back to square one..
Bigotry, hate, and discrimination are not easily shed.
I wish you and your son can one day visit an Ibrox Park that no longer reeks of those vices.
Do we have a timescale for when duff and duffer sign of on the administration and the liquidators take over, then things will start to take off again.
Stunney
Here’s the link to the draft spreadsheet to record issues that could be investigated / monitored
Anyone can add / edit. It should go some way to answer your question.
http://tinyurl.com/95adxoc
easyJambo says:
August 21, 2012 at 20:31
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I would have thought that since ESPN and Sky are subscription channels viewing figures would be less important that numbers of subscribers.
As far as I am concerned RTC was an education to me. This site is continuing that education. Please do not let the trolls get you down. That is the only reason they are here. TSFM, never give up.
Oh dear ! The natives are restless. Now now ! This is a big blog for big hitters.
M8 Dreamer
The continuing saga of Rangers/Sevco/Whoever is the biggest sporting scandal ever to occur within Scotland and in a normal society would have been disected from one end to the other to determine the full truth behind this and bring those responsible to justice.
There are three main organisations responsible for this situation which has and continues to bring shame on Scottish Football.
1. Rangers Football Club – Debts of £134 million which includes defrauding the HMRC and too
many creditors to name.
2. MSM in Scotland which has been fully compliant in telling untruth after untruth with regards
to Rangers Football Club and the future of Scottish Football.
3. SPL/SFA/SFL Organisations that have broken nearly every rule in the their rules books to
enable Sevco/The Rangers to survive and still be allowed to compete in Scottish Football,
albiet temporarily in SL3.
Unfortunately, without the RTC/SFM, a few responsible journalists, SFL Chairman and the
supporters of “diddy” teams, Sevco/The Rangers would still be playing within the SPL.
It is imperative that all “Internet Bampots” and Scottish Football Supporters continue to
investigate the full extent of the colllusion and possible corruption that has ocurred in this sorry mess, to ensure that all those responsible are eradicated from the future of Scottish Football and
are brought to justice.
This may be a long and winding road, but the future of Scottish Football is dependent
upon the correct conclusions being reached.
As a long suffering season ticket holder of one of the “Diddy” teams in Scotland, this site
must continue to focus on all corruption within Scottish Football at all times.
Nowoldnandgrumpy
I seem to remember that at the time of sevco taking over, and also when changing name to TRFC, the question was also raised about just what changes to RFC players’ registrations were made and lodged with the SFA/SFL, and when.
The suspicion is of course that until the authorities make such information public, there may be questions about just who holds these registrations …is it a company that is a registered or licenced football club? If so, which one? When were any changes made? Were any players ineligible in any games during any period of transfer of these registrations? Black & Little again come to mind, and their “trialist” status v Brechin FC?
The apparent willingness of TRFC to have players leave with no transfer fee is very strange, and certainly not in keeping with Mr Green’s supposed money making skills…why would he not try to maximise any income if his contracted players leave?
For the avoidance of doubt, this isn’t just anti-Sevco, its also a reasonable fear that the SFA wouldn’t be averse to disadvantaging Sevco when they are trying all they can to give them a leg up at the same time.
campsiejoe says:
August 21, 2012 at 23:18
Joe love your posts but re: “Over the course of the next few months, there will be revelations that those with vested interests would rather not have revealed, and when that time comes, this board will be needed, as will all posters of all persuasions”
Will all be revealed? I asked some time ago if details of the FTTT will ever be fully disclosed but there seemed to be little reaction or interest in the post (perhaps it was dealt with in earlier posts). Everyone now seems to be devoting there energies to “he said this “, “he said that”, “I don’t like RFC or whatever they’re called”, “I don’t like CFC”, “the ref’s corrupt”
It’s crucial that we find out what was led in evidence at the FTTT and by whom. We also need to know what evidence established who got what and when?
Is there’s a legal or tax opinion out there that could confirm that as a result of MIH Group persuading the FTTT to hold the hearing in private – an unusual concession – could the important issues other than the decision being kept out of the public domain? We’re all waiting on the details of the hearing but will the details ever be disclosed?
The Tribunal Procedure (First-tier Tribunal) (Tax Chamber) Rules 2009, Rule 32(6) says:
“If the Tribunal publishes a report of a decision resulting from a hearing which was held wholly or partly in private, the Tribunal must, so far as practicable, ensure that the report does not disclose information which was referred to only in a part of the hearing that was held in private (including such information which enables the identification of any person whose affairs were dealt with in the part of the hearing that was held in private) if to do so would undermine the purpose of holding the hearing in private.”
Carntyne says: August 22, 2012 at 00:03
The advertisers on these channels may have the opposite view that the actual audience is more important than the number of subscribers.
anyone else getting the impression that there is a division appearing on this site? A division based on professionals in the know who are taking a mightier than thou attitude toward ordinary people who post their point of view? Am I alone in thinking that there are two classes of posters here? Those who are in the know seem to take precedence over the ordinary Joe’s? This is not why I signed up to this site. I really believed that “The Scottish Football Monitor” would be a valuable tool in bringing the Scottish game back to something resembling a level playing field and would welcome any attempt to become all inclusive and to try and accommodate the views of the fans of our national game; the lifeblood of the game. It seems to me that elitism is not only rampant in our Scottish society, but sadly it is rampant on this site too. Those with a modicum of professional insight are fawned over by the brown nosed sycophants who seem to treat this site as their own private club. You have the emails back and forth from the elite to one and other going on in the background while the real football fans are left in ignorance and in the dark.
The person behind RTC should be sickened at the way that the site that has taken over its mantle is behaving. This blog, “The Scottish Football Monitor” no longer has anything to say to me as it is completely out of touch with ordinary football fans in this country. It speaks for the fans of Scottish football as loudly as Eton school speaks for comprehensive education. You no longer have anything to say to me. You had the opportunity to do something great for the game in this country and you have failed monumentally. Whether you agree or disagree with me is irrelevant, the fact that you have affected one fan in this way is enough for mew to say stop-you no longer speak for me. You really did have the chance to make a difference, but you allowed the Latin speakers and the ones who know the names of obscure wines to take precedence and you have failed to live up to your raison d’etre. You have failed me and you will end up as an irrelevance. Rightly so because anyone who sets themselves up as “The Scottish Football Monitor” and fails to monitor Scottish football deserves to fade into insignificance. I have a funny feeling that this post may not make it onto the blog and that would be a real shame. I hope I am wrong as there are people on here whose views I respect greatly, but sadly the elitist attitude of some people on here make it impossible for me to carry on supporting the blog.
Since the birth of the blog, I have advocated an opening up of the reader/contributor base as I believe that TSFM needs to spread its wings in order to get its message across and to encourage as many new contributors as possible as it would make us a stronger body and strength begets power. we had a real opportunity to become something greater than the sum of the parts. I asked for help to publicise and to bring to the attention of football fans of all persuasions the SFM and to try to unite fans in a body that would be heard throughout the sfa, the sfl and the spl; i asked for help to give us all a voice and you said no as you had to respect contributors anonymity. I state sir that this was a cop out on your part and the reason that you would not go along with this request was due to you losing a little bit of your personal power base. No one had to lose their anonymity, all I requested was information, information that you had, but would not give up. This was the point that finished me off regarding this blog. You had the chance to bring this to a far wider audience and you refused. In your mission statement you state that you wish to have a level playing field and that you essentially advocate openness in Scottish football, unfortunately in this you have failed, failed and failed again. This has turned into a parochial, inward looking boys club and you can look forward to an ignominious demise as you have nothing to say to fans of football. Its time for you to get off your high horses and to stop looking down on the people who come here looking for information that is promised but never delivered. We are still waiting for the nuclear news promised to rtc months ago. I’m sick and fed up of hearing about news that certain people have but cannot release as its not their story… Fck off and get a life. you either have something to say or you don’t. for all its worth, my opinion is that the eliteratti on here know more than they let on and information is passed freely between members of the boys club that run this blog. Information that us mere mortals have no right to access as we wouldn’t understand it, so therefore, there’s no need to let us know.
I am sick of this blog. it has achieved nothing and is on the slippery slope to the underworld.
Bar me from the blog if you like. i only hope you have the gutds to let this be published. The thumbs up and the thumbs down will indicate the feelings of the rest of the bloggers. Irrespective, I make no apology. You have become insignificant.
Have a cup of tea and a lie down Frank.
Frank Forrest,
Sorry to read of your disappointment in the site and/or its moderators.
We all know it hasn’t the clout of RTC, but its still early days here, and we should all try to contribute positively, even when we don’t have nuclear or even small sources of information. We can all have insight, interpretation, suggestions or questions.
Noone here is perfect, and no doubt if any of us were in charge it might be a bit different, but the cause is greater than our feelings of how the site is progressing. I hope you keep with it, even if you need a break now, I would hope that when the various reports start coming out, when fans are again needed to counter more bare faced shenanigans, that you get involved again.
Whatever they call themselves, they will be taken care of by the same economics that they refused to heed and caused their demise.
The trick is to make sure that they are not able to or allowed to ignore those economics by the SFA in the future.
The means of regulating all clubs can be found in the club licensing system, especially for SPL clubs that must follow the UEFA FFP principles.
For Scotland these need beefed up as suggested here
http://celticunderground.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=693:sfa-reform-one-down-three-to-go&catid=45:season-2010-2011&Itemid=80
and it is essential that the SFA aknowledge that they failed to apply club licensing properly and undertake to make the kind of changes suggested at the link.
I expect the hoo ha to die down until the SFA come out with their reconstruction proposals when I also expect a case to be made that Sevco, if they win the SFL3 at a canter, be moved tp SPL2, i.e jump a division and so reducing their banishment by a season.
It is difficult to predict at this point how such a move would be viewed but by the time it comes to implement such a change the remaining unfinished business regarding Rangers themselves will have been done (surely?) FTT, player registration BDO enquiry.
By then what happens to Rangers will not be as emotive an issue as the attempt to drop them into the SPL was BUT in looking at Rangers fate we (and this includes Rangers supporters more than any) absolutely must not move on and fail to focus on bringing the SFA to account for:
a) allowing Rangers to all but kill our game and themselves in the first place (and it could not have happened without the SFA turning a blind eye at best and coniving at worst) and
b) the Regan plan that was thwarted by supporters of all clubs for an SPL parachute totally ignoring the requirement to preserve sporting integrity. Regan, Doncaster and Ogilve cannot be allowed to remain in office and a quid quo pro for any reconstruction that benefits Sevco has to be not only their removal from the SFA but the introduction of greater accountability to supporters and introduction of the kind of measures suggested at the link to make sure the SFA are doing their job and clubs are abiding by the same financial rules – for the good of Scottish football..
Frank Forrest says:
August 22, 2012 at 01:25
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Someone who critises the use of Latin and then uses “raison d’etre” (French) to make his point?
If you have so much to offer. Please point me in the direction of your own blog.
Nowoldandgrumpy says:
August 21, 2012 at 23:36
Re the Tupe’d players. I saw a comment in tonight’s evening times from one of the young players who walked away. He said that he was told that if he trained and was paid by Sevco, then he would have been considered as Tupe’d over.
Given that some of the players who have recently walked away for free, trained and were paid by Sevco that comment seems strange. It therefore begs the question if these players were registered with Sevco in the first place?
********************
I have been asking this for some time now as well – there is something fishy here.
As I posted on here and on RTC about Southampton denying they paid any monies (Starofdavid – that is when I used the Josef Goebbels quote!), there is a distinct lack of anyone from MSM asking what has gone on…
On a Friday, Sevco get a conditional memeber ship and 24 hours later have played a game.
one week later T’Rangers have all the same playerss registered for them
Bedoya leaves for nothing – Edu negociates his own transfer, Goian leaves for Italy,- Bocanegra will be next.
Who are these players registered to?
Again I asked 3 weeks ago – someone from MSM to ask
(1) Which club Elbows is registered to
(2) When did this registration take effect
(3) If registerd to Sevco and T’Rangers, how can players now be registered for a 3rd time in same season to another club (big clue there!!!!)
midcalderan says:
August 22, 2012 at 00:42
Good post.
I wish I was an expert on the legalities of tax tribunal rulings and how much of the documentary evidence will be made public and then I might be able to answer you properly.
In fact, I wish I could remember exactly what some “experts” on RTC said about this issue just a few months ago.
I can’t though as it merges into a fuzzy memory for a layman like myself.
I can only recall bits and pieces and hopefully these snippets of information may help you.
The fact the hearing was held in private has been discussed and, despite it being highly unusual, most agreed this suited all parties.
The thought of a vanguard of Bears watching court proceedings as evidence was presented did not appeal to the judges or HMRC’s lawyers while keeping things “under wraps” suited the Murray Group’s legal team.
This analysis has never sat well with a number of posters who have always been deeply concerned at the fact the hearing was held in private.
As to what the Tribunal will release, I’m sure I remember a debate about how certain personal information would have to be redacted but I got the impression a substantial swathe of evidence and transcribed testimony would be made public.
On this specific issue, I may well be havering.
I do recall though that RTC stated that, for legal reasons, he would only reveal certain information after the FTT ruling was made.
He said some of this information would stagger people.
So, it appears, RTC will release more documentary evidence in due course that may or may not have been been presented to the Tribunal.
The lead Judge will also issue a written judgment. This is important as the tone and content of this will be reflected in the way the matter is reported in the media.
This written judgment is expected to be damning of the corporate culture that existed at Ibrox for the 10 years in question.
The “nuclear information” appears to relate to allegations about payments made through EBTs to former managers.
However, a number of posters believe all these matters are now on hold as criminal charges are being pursued against individuals.
As such, it would not be conducive to justice for the Tribunal to release its written judgment and related testimony and documentary evidence.
I don’t know if this is the case and I am usually wrong anyway.
I hope this has helped a wee bit although you probably knew all this already.
As for Frank Forrest’s post above, I’m sorry you feel snubbed and out the loop Frank.
I don’t understand Latin either but we are to a great extent beholden to the “experts” on these issues I’m afraid and lots of lawyers did the Classics at school.
I don’t believe they are “hiding” information though.
In fact, I would like to thank them for sharing their knowledge as I have learned a lot – even if I can’t remember it all.
Does someone own the players? A third party or suchlike.
oddfather – that would be illegal and I am sure Campbell Ogilview would poo poo that ever happening. Ok maybe I am not sure he would if it were being doen for a mate::-)
There is something fishy – could be the players have remained as registered to Ranger NIL for more than they should have been (i.e for the Brechin game).
I also noted Naismith’s comments that CG never formally advised them as he was suppsoed to do under TUPE laws – given that CG is chasing down for fees he is not entitled to, is his position that he has not TUPE’d them over therefore they cannot leave for free?
Why is the SFA blocking their transfers? What has Fraser Wishart got to say on all of this?
Seems the clarity and transparency promised has all of a sudden gone missing – I have heard more comments from a bloke on the run from the law in an Ecuadorian embassy than I have form our head SFA/SPL/SFL chums on current status of the game……………
wow – its been an active night! One point to make, re: Forrests post is that TSFM doesn’t belong to one person – it is a collection of all of us. It is a place where all Scottish football fans can come together to discuss issues affecting Scottish football. We are the ones that make it what it is. Anyone can write here. Anyone can contribute. TSFM has openly asked people to submit articles and opinion. The comments are free to everyone, as long as you keep within certain guidelines, namely:
1) where has the money gone
2) why are rules being broken
3) see point one again.
Sure it is frustrating not knowing what the ‘nuclear’ story is, but I am sure there is good reason why it has not come out. Rest assured that the people who know will release when the time is right, in the same way that RTC released info on Rangers taxes when the time was right. I am sitting on info regarding a certain SPL manager which I would love to tell everyone – the issue is if I did it would land me a nasty court case. That I would prefer to avoid.
Like TSFM said – lets stick to the topics. Not refereeing decisions (we could be here all year discussing that!), but the real issues:
1) where has the money gone (seriously, Ticketus have not just walked away – the judge told them if the contract was broken they would have a case to sue – they haven’t, so what are they doing now?)
2) why are rules being broken (player registrations (who, what where when), club licenses (what guarantee’s have been offered), players talking about SPL next season (Sandaza, Black, Little etc)
3) back to number one. Who are the backers at Ibrox, where has the money come from, and what guarantees do the SFA have that they are i) fit and proper owners and ii) that the club is sustainable. Who owns Ibrox? Who owns Murray Park? Why are Sevco Franchise claiming money for players that didn’t TUPE over? Why are the SFA continuing to withhold player registrations from those that didn’t?
These are the issues my friends – this is what WE need to address. It is not TSFM’s site – it belongs to all of us. We will either make it or break it. Lets stick together, stop bickering about nonsense, and ask, research (I am the otherside of the world… but it is amazing what 30 mins of searching on google can turn up 🙂 ) and expose the powers that be for the cheats and frauds that we all think they are.
Gents – lets we forget.
Now this is not being posted here to show pro or anti Celtic feelings – it is to show the workings of the SFA and how with some determination, the truth gets out.
This needs to be our goal – to get the truth from SFA about what deals were agreed to allow the old co/new co to do what they have done and what rules were knowingly disregarded for thsi to happen.
Bear in mind – these are not dictators in Syria or despots in far off countries – these are representatives of OUR clubs. They need to be accountable to us – the fans!!!
Also note that any club that does legitimately go to the wall (i.e. not owing creditors for subsidising the club for years on end unneccessarily) will not get the same treatment as T’Rangers – that we can all agree on. Our mission is to find out what these differences were and the consequences of what the agreements were and will be for us.
Farry’s fall from grace
Published on Saturday 21 February 2009 18:45
THE MOMENT the SFA’s own counsel, Paul Cullen, threw down his pen in frustration at Jim Farry’s “very poor” performance under cross-examination, the writing was on the wall for the man who had ruled Scottish football with a rod of iron. But the embattled chief executive, a punctilious power-broker of fearsome repute, probably wouldn’t have recognised it. In a supreme irony, it was the Great Administrator’s misadministration that proved to be his downfall.
His misinterpretation of what was written in the game’s statutes forced him to face Celtic’s lawyers in an arbitration case and ultimately forced him out of office in what will be remembered as Scottish football’s greatest courtroom drama.
Rest can be read here
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/farry-s-fall-from-grace-1-1304383
Player registrations document….
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/SFAHandbook/13%20RegProced.pdf
good result away from home,well done bhoys.
I see that sevco had oldco strips on with the 5 stars.
I have sent an email to the sfl asking of the above wearing,and why on their website the sevco team that just joined the 3rd div are listed as being formed in 1872,with numerous trophies and titles accredited to them.
An unbeleivable feat for a club that has only been existence for a short time.
Will inform of any reply that I receive
The silence is deafening from Scottish football’s ruling bodies re sevco 🙂 this is because they don’t have the answers …….. Simple …… They have broken and bent so many different rules that they’re a bit lost 🙂 let’s hope as with all cover-ups that it eventually blows up in their faces 🙂 interview with ally on tv last night was comical he couldn’t say ‘administrators’ lol
mechyfitter @5.13 .
Yesterday morning i telephoned Citizen’s Advice again (3rd time),and they have agreed to submit my complaint again about the false advertising from a Phoenix club (sevco) who insist on claiming the history of a club who are IA, the very kind lady wrote everything down again and this time she will submit my complaint to the area that i live and also Glasgow where the Offences are being commited,I also complained about the Sevco website showing the Honours (sic) won by a another club who are not members of the SFL.She agreed that this was not allowed by law.
Could everyone who has a few minutes phone your local branch of Citizens Advice and complain,you will receive a reference number that you can use every time you call ,call often please.
mechyfitter I forgot to say that the complaints are passed to Trading Standards, they are the body that can stop the Advertising ,and make them (sevco) remove the lies from their website.
Re the 2012 fc players registrations .
I think the blog could be on to something here ,IMO the fans putting 2012 fc into Div 3 caused the SFA a problem they did not expect ,I was looking at the headache it gave 2012 fc/ SFA over the name change date but maybe it’s led to another problem (players registered to 3 clubs in a season ) .
I agree the silence regards this has all the hallmarks of the MSM turning a blind eye to an obvious story .
Tic 6709 says:
August 22, 2012 at 07:10
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No disrespect intended, but that has to be one of the most useless ideas ever proffered on here. CAB’s all over the country are firefighting cuts in funding the likes of which they haven’t seen in almost 30 years, are turning away genuine cases of need because the current staff have back-breaking workloads with no relief in sight – and you want to burden them further by having them deal with complaints about Sevco’s advertising?
Time for some people to get real here. This is almost as pointless as “Tommy from Glasgow”‘s call to 5Live on Sunday.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-one/mccoist-delighted-after-ibrox-team-triumph-in-bairns-cup-final-1-2481094
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/jjb-and-rangers-end-merchandising-agreement-to-pave-way-for-mike-ashley-deal-1-2479386
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/dorin-goian-quits-ibrox-for-italy.1345580978
Good morning.
A lot of infighting. Keep calm. This blog will eventually deliver. The corruption has not gone away and the people responsible are still in post.
It is up to the fans to put pressure on the clubs to call an EGM to get rid of those who have brought the game down. The fact that the clubs have not should tell us all something.
The FTT verdict, Nimmo-Smith investigation, Lord Hodge on D&P and BDO appointment will ensure that there will be plenty of material to debate. The important thing is not just to have it revealed and discussed but to have action taken on it so that it can never happen again, and for that reason those who are still in post such as Ogilvie must go.
Fifer says:
August 21, 2012 at 18:48
If my pubs name is still the same for over a 100 years and has went bust, plenty different owners and hey, still the same name over the door, it’s not called a Newco !
_____________________________________________________________________
Nice one, you’ve just shown why Ibrox (as long as it remains standing) will always be known as Ibrox. Oldco, just as the owners of your fictional pub may well have done, have gone bust, and the new owners of Ibrox, just like the new owners your fictional pub, are new too. Hope that helps you understand the difference between an owner and a building!
Tic 6709,
I reside in Australiaso I do not think the local citizens advice bureau would be able to acheive much,hence my email to the sfl.
As you rightly say,it would be good if many more people contacted the relevant bodies……
we must try our upmost to increase the pressure and expose the corruption and disease that is has been prevailing in scottish football for too many years.
Will inform of any reply I receive from the sfl
Going for a pint,catch up later
Mechyfitter – I also noticed the 5 stars making a re-appearance in the photos from last night’s game. Are these stars actually controlled by anyone, or could you stick a few dozen of them on your shirt for whatever reason you choose?
e.g. Aberdeen’s stars refer to European trophies, RFC(x)’s referred to blocks of 10 League titles. No apparent consistency of what they mean.
Celtic67 says:
August 22, 2012 at 01:50
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Someone who critises the use of Latin and then uses “raison d’etre” (French) to make his point?
——–
Unnecessary, 67.
“Raison d’etre” has become accepted in common usage in the English language. Some of the Latin terminology on here has not.
Personally, I rather enjoy walking round Rome attempting to decipher the Latin inscriptions (all abbreviations and in-jokes), but I wouldn’t care to post them on a football blog. Others may wish to exhibit their knowledge, that’s their prerogative.
Fifer says:
August 21, 2012 at 18:48
If my pubs name is still the same for over a 100 years and has went bust, plenty different owners and hey, still the same name over the door, it’s not called a Newco !
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If a Michelin starred restaurant goes bust (let’s call it Ramsay’s for talking sake) and you then buy the premises re-opening it as The Ramsay’s you don’t get to keep the Michelin star. If the customers are stupid enough to believe it is the same restaurant then more fool them.
A little light entertainment at the official UEFA Ranger’s web page:
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=78063/profile/index.html
I note from Stunney’s delivery of the morning papers that the JJB deal has now been torn up allowing Ashley to invest in T’ Rangers.
If I read it correctly JJB’s 10 year agreement resulted in £18m in year one then £3m per annum. Therefore a total £45m for the oldco
The deal had either three or four years to run, thus between £9m – £12m but who was that going to being the contract was with the oldco.
(Did that particular asset get transferred over? And if so why?)
When a deal is done the question must be how much is Ashley going to pay up for the deal on selling the strips.
Can anyone see £45m being the total figure?
Can anyone see £3m per annum being a figure?
ParmaHamster says:
August 22, 2012 at 07:30
Tic 6709 says:
August 22, 2012 at 07:10
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No disrespect intended, but that has to be one of the most useless ideas ever proffered on here. CAB’s all over the country are firefighting cuts in funding the likes of which they haven’t seen in almost 30 years, are turning away genuine cases of need because the current staff have back-breaking workloads with no relief in sight – and you want to burden them further by having them deal with complaints about Sevco’s advertising?
Time for some people to get real here. This is almost as pointless as “Tommy from Glasgow”‘s call to 5Live on Sunday.
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If we ignore all of the lies from Sevco,even the small ones,which I dont think this is,then where do we stop.People have been complaining often about Sevco not being Rangers (IA),so tell me ,why should they be allowed to have on their website and tickets, and programmes ,honours (sic) won by another club ?,seemingly that is against the law.
If you look on the Trading Standards website you will see that you have to call Citizens Advice,consumer service,there is no direct contact available.
In 3 calls to Citizens Advice i was on for approx. 6min.Not really too much distubance to the kind ladies day.They then pass on the complaint with my reference number to trading standards with the push of a button,not a personal visit.
There would have been no point in complaining to the SFA or the SFL,we all know the reasons why.
Another thing,I did not know their funding had been cut,although it would have made no difference,I would still have complained, and until they give me a definitive answer to the complaint i Will continue to complain.If this is trivial to you so be it,not much I can do about that.
My apologies if this question has already been answered .
Two people have now said to me that in the SFL the gate money is split. Is this true ?
Thanks in advance.
Apropos the use of French and Latin on this site I do believe there is a prima facie case to answer. For those who feel it is their raison d’etre to fight against this I say ‘Carpe Diem’, Et cetera Et cetera.
Allyjambo Taxpayer says:
August 22, 2012 at 08:37
Fifer says:
August 21, 2012 at 18:48
If my pubs name is still the same for over a 100 years and has went bust, plenty different owners and hey, still the same name over the door, it’s not called a Newco !
_____________________________________________________________________
Nice one, you’ve just shown why Ibrox (as long as it remains standing) will always be known as Ibrox. Oldco, just as the owners of your fictional pub may well have done, have gone bust, and the new owners of Ibrox, just like the new owners your fictional pub, are new too. Hope that helps you understand the difference between an owner and a building!
**************
But the licence name will be different to indicate the new owner – and if you keep tryign to order by calling the new owner by the original owner’s name Bill when his name is actually Charles you may not get served…………..
WOTTPI says:
August 22, 2012 at 09:13
I note from Stunney’s delivery of the morning papers that the JJB deal has now been torn up allowing Ashley to invest in T’ Rangers.
If I read it correctly JJB’s 10 year agreement resulted in £18m in year one then £3m per annum. Therefore a total £45m for the oldco
The deal had either three or four years to run, thus between £9m – £12m but who was that going to being the contract was with the oldco.
(Did that particular asset get transferred over? And if so why?)
When a deal is done the question must be how much is Ashley going to pay up for the deal on selling the strips.
Can anyone see £45m being the total figure?
Can anyone see £3m per annum being a figure?
———————————————————-
JJB’s deal would have been paid in arrears so any money due for last year would have gone to the administrators.
If they had continued the deal with JJB they would had to have waited until the end of next season for any payment. Better to ditch the deal now and get money (albeit a lesser sum I’ll wager although it will be dressed up as some kind of fantastic deal)) from Ashley up front. From a cash strapped business point of view it actually makes short term sense. As Green & Co are not in this for the long run it doesn’t matter what the long term consequences are. Green’s equivalent of Close Finance IMO.
WOTTPI says:
August 22, 2012 at 09:31
Apropos the use of French and Latin on this site I do believe there is a prima facie case to answer. For those who feel it is their raison d’etre to fight against this I say ‘Carpe Diem’, Et cetera Et cetera.
***********
Schadenfreude is used often here – am assuming German is ok but French and Latin are passe?
I’ll get my dictionary………..
Had problems with a Glasgow based office furniture supply company a few years back. From my experience unless the guy running Glasgow City Council’s Trading Standards Office is wearing a hooped top with a greenish tinge to it I wouldn’t hold out much hope for anything to come of any complaints re 5 stars and the like.
The Invisible Line says:
August 22, 2012 at 09:34
While you are at it try looking for
Que sera sera 🙂
Angus says:
August 22, 2012 at 09:04
A little light entertainment at the official UEFA Ranger’s web page:
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=78063/profile/index.html
**********************************************************************
Santa Coloma clearly Ranger’s bogey team.
tomtom says:
August 22, 2012 at 09:33
A fair shout. It will be interesting to see what they come up with and how that will pan out for the future.
As I said the other day the financial situation at T’ Rangers should be a key focus of TSFM so the rest of Scottish Football can be warned of another potential admin/liquidation scenario. (Not that is did much good 1st time around)
If Mr Charles can manage to sort something out and does stay the course, then good luck to him but it ain’t going to be easy.
easyJambo says:
August 21, 2012 at 20:31
9 0 Rate This
I’ve just checked up on some of the early TV audiences for live TV games from this season. The Sky audience for the Peterhead v TRFC game was 166K, which is not too bad although somewhat less than last season’s cup ties of Peterhead v Celtic (298K) and Arbroath v RFC (247K), all of which were shown on Sky Sports 1 which generally has the highest audiences.
However numbers from the early ESPN games must be some cause for concern. Dundee Utd v Hibs 16K and Hibs v Hearts at just 25K are away down on last season’s equivalent games. Last season, games featuring neither Celtic nor RFC would normally attract around 50-60K while the Edinburgh derby would attract around 100K when shown on ESPN.
I can’t see ESPN in particular being particularly happy if those numbers were to continue.
Viewing figures can be had here with a little searching about: http://www.barb.co.uk/report/weeklyTopProgrammes/?
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easyJambo I think you can probably attribute a large part of this apparent slump in audience figures down to the fact and context that both these Sunday afternoon games were shown in direct competition to a hugely successful and popular London Olympics where Team GB was being very successful.
A worrying trend if these sorts of audience figures continued however as well as competing against the Olympics both these games were also played before the English football season proper commenced so the watching football audience itself would probably also be lower?