Guest Post by Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan
Good Evening,
Last night, I found myself sitting at home when an e-mail arrived from the administrator of these pages suggesting that I write a guest article for all to consider. At that precise moment my television was full of the efforts of James T Kirk attempting to escape the Wrath of Khan, who blames old James T for all his ills and troubles including what he sees as his ridiculous and malicious banishment to a distant star in the middle of nowhere— amongst other things. He seeks vengeance, causes mayhem, and refuses to recognise the rule of law.
It may seem strange, but there is much to be learned from The Wrath of Khan. For example, in the midst of the action Admiral James T acknowledges that when he first faces what is at the time an unknown adversary, in most unusual and unknown circumstances, he ignores rules and regulation and as a result “gets caught with his pants down.”
That is the consequence of ignoring rules and regulation more often than not—even for the good guys.
This is also the movie where we are introduced to the Kobayashi Maru—the supposedly impossible test in which members of star fleet are asked to rescue a stricken ship and its crew without sacrificing themselves, their starship and all members of their crew. The test is meant to be impossible to solve as it cannot be achieved—unless you change the rules of the game!
Captain’s log: Star date 2012; This is the voyage of the Starship Scottish Fitba—and we’re lost!
How can it come to be, that as we approach September 2012 the world of Scottish Football is in such a state of flux and disarray with an unbelievable amount of uncertainty and doubt about fundamental matters and principles, after months when we have seen the spiralling demise of one of our country’s biggest football clubs and the threatened disintegration of the entire system of football administration in Scotland as a result?
Surely after all that has happened in these past months the administrators would have learned to not only play by the rules, but be seen to be playing by the rules, insisting on the rules, and reinforcing the principles and platforms that those rules are based on?
Rangers PLC has ceased to be a part of Scottish football and the failure to deal with that simple fact, even more than the demise of what was regarded as an institution, is baffling in the extreme. The simple fact of the matter is this: There are rules and laws —regulations if you like —which were pre written to deal with such an event. Apply the rules and everyone knows where they stand— ignore the rules and, as James T Kirk points out, you get caught with your pants down!
So far, the rules have been half implemented half ignored. Rangers were automatically deducted points for going into Administration and properly so. They were convicted, by a properly convened independent panel, of various rule breaches, and duly sentenced as a result—again properly so. Thereafter, the company was consigned to Liquidation because it could not pay its debts- with the result that it loses its SPL share and the right to participate in football altogether— and with the further result that it left a trail of unpaid debts to creditors, including football clubs, which ran to millions of pounds.
Further, let’s be clear, The SPL and the SFL only exist with the consent of the SFA. The SFA are the ultimate governing body in Scottish Football, with the two league associations merely management tools to achieve what is supposed to be the efficient management of the game in compliance with the pre agreed rules, procedures and principles that are meant to govern football and football administration. If you wish to play under this system, then you have to accept the very same rules procedures and principles, and there should be no contracting in or out of either membership, or the laws of the game.
Yet when Rangers went into Administration, and stared liquidation in the face, The Administrators, and subsequently everyone from Bill Miller through to Charles Green stated publicly that they, together with the SFA and all of Scottish Football, were facing the Kobayashi Maru whereby maintaining the rules and the principles of the game whilst at the same time saving Rangers FC could not be achieved!
The rules had to be ignored for the sake of expediency cried some press members. Whilst principles are all well and good, you can’t apply them if it means the death of Rangers—Rangers are too big — cried others. If you apply the principles and the rules you will kill Rangers—and yourselves—said some.
It would appear that when it came to Rangers and their wellbeing, some took the view that principles were not quite so important and that, no matter what, Rangers FC had to be saved—- and there it was—the impossible task— The Kobayashi Maru!
I wonder if those who spouted that argument looked at The SFA website in any detail? Because there it states specifically that the SFA wants its coaches to educate all its young players, trainee managers and future coaches to “ Honour the game-respect your opponent- play to the rules–value sportsmanship–redefine winning- not just focusing on match results and league positions- and to help produce positive, respectful, and confident people with useful life skills“. Presumably those life skills include playing by the rules, valuing integrity, behaving with honour and respecting the position of others and so on.
Yes—It is hard to believe—but all of those phrases are direct quotes from the Scottish Football Association webpages—they are the words of the SFA themselves. How could they be seen to abandon such principles—especially when they so publicly proclaim them?
What a choice then for the SFA—abandon your principles—or lose an institution—The Kobayashi Moru! You just can’t win!
Except, Green & Co—and I include sections of the media in that phrase—clean forgot who was sitting the Kobayashi Moru test. The SFA were never faced with the test—if anything it was their rules that posed the test for whoever wanted to try and save Rangers. In the end, nobody was willing to attempt that task under the existing rules. No one was prepared to come along and pay the debts and so save the club—and at that stage it was Rangers and Rangers alone who faced the Kobayashi Moru.
Green, by way of his Servco company, then sought admission into the footballing world at a time and under circumstances which the rules dictated must result in failure. He had no accounts, no history in the game, effectively no players and nothing that would suggest that he could meet the criteria of the pre agreed rules for entry into the SFA.
It was at this juncture that the footballing executives made the error of ignoring the rules and principles that govern our game—the ones that the SFA espouse on their own website. They tried to shoe in Green against all the rules, with the result that supporters, fans, and club chairman voted them down and left them with their pants firmly glued to their ankles in Kirk speak.
The SFA, at the instigation of the member clubs from all leagues, then played the Kirk role in attempting to solve The Ibrox Kobayashi Moru by changing those rules with the agreement of the majority, so that Mr Green and his cohorts could gain membership, by effectively agreeing to allow Green’s Servco to obtain membership of the SFA on a conditional basis— with one of those conditions being that Mr Green’s company will pay ALL outstanding football debts—and make no mistake Captain Green accepted that he would play by those rules as otherwise he faced oblivion.
Here is what Green said as published on the SFA website following the signing of the 5 man agreement:
“The agreement signed today allows Rangers to be granted membership by the SFA and finally enables the Club to move forward.
“The Board, the Manager and senior executives have been working tirelessly over the last few weeks to secure the future of the Club and today is the start of that process.
“The Board has had to take some very difficult decisions to gain SFA membership, including accepting the delayed transfer ban and paying outstanding financial penalties. But we are now able to get back to playing football and plan for the new season, starting this Sunday with our match against Brechin.”
The website also reported that Servco had been granted conditional membership with one of the conditions being – “Sevco Scotland Ltd has agreed to settle all outstanding football debts to other members of the Scottish FA plus clubs under the jurisdiction of other Football Associations.”
You will note that nowhere does it state that the SFA or the SPL will pay any of the footballing debts out of any money supposedly due to the second place team in season 2011/2012 as Charles Green appears to claim – and besides it is obvious to everyone that Servco did not participate in the league during that season and so cannot be entitled to any such payment as they were not Registered with the league nor had membership of the SFA or SPL.
Rangers PLC were so registered, but if they were due any money that money would go to their Administrators. However, given that Rangers PLC were the Registered body and were convicted of offences which were described as only second to match fixing, then it follows that they should not be allowed to profit by so much as a penny in that season as a result of their rule breaking activity. Had they been expelled from the league they would have been entitled to nothing at all, and it should be remembered that it was the same Mr Green who took that situation to the Court of Session with the result that the court sent the case back to the panel with the clear instruction that such a penalty may well be appropriate and that in the circumstances the tribunal may have little alternative but to impose such a sanction.
Clearly, this is a scenario that Charles Green had to avoid. In this instance he ignored the footballing rules of not going to courts of law, and found himself with his pants down and facing the Wrath of The Court and the Kobayashi Moru whereby any technical success at the court was likely to result in certain extinction by way of expulsion from the league.
Now Captain Green seems intent on steering his starship into yet another dead end with fatal consequences. He claims that the Scottish Football debts are paid. If we ignore for the minute that he has never attempted to pay any footballing debts outwith Scotland – thus jeopradising his conditional acceptance into the SFA— his claim that it was agreed that these debts would be paid by the SPL or the SFA out of 2011/2012 prize money is derisory.
No fundamental principle of fair play, respect for opponents and attempt at honouring the game could allow for such a situation. Besides the SFA were quite clear in their statement and he has at no time demurred. From the date of the 5 man agreement onwards Captain Green undertook to pay all of the footballing debts— and if he doesn’t, then again he risks the withdrawal of his conditional membership. There is no other solution to the issue. Those are the rules he signed up to, and if you ignore the rules………….
However, this entire affair still has far to go. Where is the transparency and clarity championed by Henry Mcleish and oft promised by Stewart Regan and others? Why are the details of Green’s investors and his business plan, timescales for meeting obligations and everything else about his operation kept so secret? Given the history of those who have been in charge of Ibrox over the last twenty years, the complete failure of their administration and what is now known about their tenure there and in football generally,— and given Green’s latest public statements—, does it not occur to the SFA that the rest of Scottish football has a right to know the details of what they have been told and what Green has promised?
He has promised to clear the footballing debts and appears to be making little attempt to do that whilst his manager hails as triumphs the signing of what he sees as the best players from other teams at relatively huge expense—whilst the debts remain, and the obligations are unfulfilled.
Again that cannot be right and goes against all principles of respecting opponents and honouring the game. It is a circumstance that amounts to the antithesis of the principles espoused by the SFA and appears to be completely contrary to the mandate given to Regan and the powers that be by the clubs and fans of all divisions. Further, the current position gives the impression that Mr Green believes that he can run his company and participate in football as and how he wants, as and when he wants and under his terms and conditions.
This smacks of previous regimes that hovered around Ibrox for far too long with ultimately disastrous results particularly for Rangers fans, investors and creditors.
History cannot be allowed to repeat itself under these circumstances and the SFA must bring pressure on Green to pay the obligations that he undertook to meet within a publicly known timescale. Not only does he need to do that for the benefit of the clubs owed money—he needs to do it for the sake of the integrity of the whole of Scottish football, and he should not be allowed to build at team or field a team if he breaches the agreement. That should be the rule.
He should not be allowed to sacrifice publicly proclaimed and nationally accepted principles for the sake of his own financial expediency “for the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few—- or the one!”
Oh—and lest anyone think that it is mere trivia to link the current plight of Scottish Football with Star Trek and the Wrath of Khan, and that any such comparison is childish and of little consequence, that last quote was specifically relied upon, referred to and quoted in the Supreme Court of Texas in a decision issued on 22nd October 2010 in the case of Barbara Robinson, Individually and as Representative of the Estate of John Robinson, Deceased, Petitioner against Crown Cork & Seal Company, Inc., Individually and as Successor to Mundet Cork Corporation, Respondent— thus bringing the undoubted logic and wisdom of Mr Spock well and truly into the Law of the United States of America!
Few would argue that Spock’s logic is not a sound legal principle!
It also seems to me that perhaps Spock had some solid business advice for those who choose to ignore the rules with a view to seeking short term gain or advantage—whether that be by way of trophies, money, position or what have you—but peril their entire existence by engaging in unlawful or illegal activity. It is advice which was ignored apparently by Sir David Murray and his board and by Craig Whyte and his entire cabal. We wait to see if Charles Green will have learned the lesson that they so clearly didn’t, or whether he believes in the potential rewards of the quick fix at any cost?
Live long…….. And prosper!
Neal says:
August 21, 2012 at 11:04
I posted two days ago about a bunch of things that have never added up in this soap opera.
My post was held in moderation so long that nobody will have seen it but its now cleared and in the blog.
Here is a 30 second version.
Ticketus are not just involved – they were proactive from day one to guard their and their friends investment and clever too and they have broadly succeeded despite some early setbacks.
However I believe the biggest and so far least investigated story is the role played by our politicians once they knew the extent of their “problem” with the still not wound up club.
For their own “social” reasons they decided that the most critical thing in this whole process was to let “Football Break Out” before any of the toxic stuff could be dealt with.
By “Football Breaking Out” that I mean a winning and successful, but “New” Rangers with happy fans and enough distance between the new club and the old “Holding Company”.
They achieved this with the compliance of the SFA despite breaking many SFA rules. I don’t know how exactly but I’d guess in the normal fashion using their anonymous gnomes and contacts. By mandating two things to Campbell they allowed the politicians to stay well back, out of the frame, silent and squeaky clean, so far.
I’d say their plan worked.
Mandate one – Rangers are alive and their fans are happy again.
Mandate two – Everything else has and is still been delayed.
And the silence from our politicians remains deafening.
Regan nearly gave it all away when he used the “social unrest” quote rather than sticking to the spurious economic arguments as agreed.
I mentioned on RTC that it is entirely feasible for a Club to be double-promoted (i.e. skipping a division) on “sporting merit”, particularly with a bit of league reconstruction thrown in to help.
Fiorentina did it. And the way the Italians helped them along looks even more corrupt than the current one in Scotland!
So Regan at last breaks cover, to be followed fairly soon no doubt, by the other members of Stooges Inc
Having had their proposal thrown out by the SFL clubs, here they are again back with another proposal, which will be similar to the rejected proposal, in Part 2 of the Scottish football sting
You have to give them 10 out of 10 for determination and sheer brass neck, but hopefully the SFL clubs will vote the same way again
Mr Hutton and Co, we need you to step up to the plate yet again to thwart this latest attempt to corrupt our game
When reconstruction is taken alongside Regan’s remark, where he brushes off Green’s rhetoric as no more than an attempt to sell tickets, it is little wonder that Sevco and all connected with it feel that they can do and say anything they like
It is time for the nest of vipers inside Hampden to be removed
On another issue
Has any 3rd Division club ever received so many column inches and air time as Sevco ?
The MSM are determined that Sevco will be seen and treated as an SPL side, with not a single word of criticism for the havoc and disgrace they have brought to our game
Instead, they lovingly regurgitate all of the sycophantic nonsense they receive from Jack
Even when they have gotten everything so spectacularly wrong, they can’t and won’t stop
Expect the PR drive for reconstruction to be ratcheted up a few notches from now on, with the good of Sevco being sold as for the good of the game
They are despicable people
I was thinking about the creation of all these new “Rangers” companies and it struck me that what’s really happening not just at The Rangers but everywhere else too is a battle for the soul of football. Is football fundamentally a sport or a big commercial enterprise.
Clearly the creation of all these new Rangers companies is to neatly partition all parts of Rangers commercial and footballing revenues into individual profit-centres so that catering, retail sales, merchandising, media income, ticket sales, football income etc is all paid and channelled through the appropriate newco company with the profits generated eventually flowing to ????
Even the signing of big-name players for SFL-3 level is designed primarily to get bums on seats ie sell tickets, burgers & bovril, strips & scarves, financial services etc.
Basically it is a business model to separate 50K+ bear from their hard earned cash and this will increase as they rise up through the divisions and into Europe and the Champions League.
It’s not about Kyle Hutton or Barry McKie or any other young Gers supporting kid that’s good at football and wants to play for and win trophies for his team. Only if he’s really good then he might get a chance to play but he’s in severe competition with older more experienced bought in players that are ready to play NOW and who are more likely to attract season ticket sales than a hitherto unknown kid unless he really is a special talent.
Is it about the football? or is football just the vehicle for Mr Green and so many others like him to separate the fans from their cash?
As for Rangers “recognising” that Sevco are not Rangers, the evidence being that no results from this season have been posted … it should be noted that the UEFA website only appears to carry the results of Top League teams from each country.
Therefore, no Sevco on the UEFA website.
Doon the slope says:
CW
“You cant just turf out Rangers or Celtic….”
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I agree whole-heartedly with the rest of your post.
However, had it been Celtic in this position, the Establishment would have flushed them down the toilet and never given it a second thought, in my opinion.
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Celtic would have been protected – if only because Rangers make/made so much money from the OF games and where would their bigotry be without the other half to go on about – would Hibs become the new evil empire? Or Partick Thistle (just for being in the same city)?
I agree that there wouldn’t be such an effort to bring back the the whole package, they’d have been happy for a severely weakened Celtic to survive whereas every effort has been made to keep Rangers as strong as possible (and especially, NOT get rid of the old baggage).
Fortunately not every aspect of this has worked for them … fan power forcing them into Div 3 for instance but the shenanigans of Regan et al show they don’t just want Rangers back, they want them top of the pile again. Hopefully sheer economics of the present situation will prevent that or our only chance of a better league – in both football and other terms – will have been wasted.
Remember sustaining the bigotry in the eyes of many who ran/run the club is seen as a way on ensuring cash through the gates. You could work to get rid of it and still be successful but that would take a lot more effort and it’s easier to go down the other route – as we can see with CGs efforts.
Anyone else speculating that the “nuclear” info relates to EBT monies supposedly being paid to A in fact going to B, C or D?
Angus says:
August 23, 2012 at 10:11
TU 3 TD 7
As for *UEFA* “recognising” that Sevco are not Rangers, …
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My typo in original post! 🙂
Johnboy at 9:37
I have no alternative explanation.
Do you have links to support the details of what you say ?
I believe that it is/was known amongst prospective buyers or those close to them that Ticketus were liable to be part of any negotiation.
That it is above board (legally) but for obvious reasons the info is sensitive.
On the fence says:
August 23, 2012 at 10:58
Johnboy at 9:37
I have no alternative explanation.
Do you have links to support the details of what you say ?
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Per LinkedIn, Brian Stockbridge, Director – Corporate Finance at Zeus Capital,London, United Kingdom Banking
Current, The Rangers Football Club, Zeus Capital
Previous, Allenby Capital, Noble & Company, Grant Thornton
Cortes says:
August 23, 2012 at 10:51
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Anyone else speculating that the “nuclear” info relates to EBT monies supposedly being paid to A in fact going to B, C or D?
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David Murray recieved over £6 million from the EBT scheme but claims not to have taken a penny.Ok i believe you david 😉 ,soooooooo to whom did you pass the money too.
stevensanph says:
August 23, 2012 at 08:51
So, assuming they want 2 leagues with 16 teams, and a bottom league of 10 teams…
That would mean 4 teams would be promoted from the first division with no relegation, or 5 teams, plus one going down.
The remaining SFL1 teams would then join up with the SFL2 teams in an ‘SPL2′
The only way for the SevcoFranchise to get into ‘SPL2′ would be as champions, replacing last place in the SFL2.
However, last time there was league reconstruction, wasn’t there no relegation? Why would that be different this time around? Is there anything in the SFA rulebook which dictates what should happen?
Once again, to many ifs buts and maybes…
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Thanks for that Steven, I was just about to post that I couldn’t work out how they could accomodate Sevco into the second tier through reconstruction (to be honest I hadn’t tried too hard and hadn’t considered such a skewed construction) and was going to post that, as the highest they could finish in the league as a whole was 10th from bottom, then only some fix, or outright cheating, (I thought perhaps minimum ground capacity) could be used. Of course, what you describe wouldn’t be a fix, now would it? 😉
In fact, it would be such an obvious fix, 16 + 16 +10, that in years ahead, the question would be asked by schoolboys (and schoolgirls) as soon as their arithmetic’s up to speed, “daaad, there’s 42 teams in the league, why not 14 in each division?” The answer, of course, will depend on whether or not dad supports Sevco!
Then, of course, the question has to be asked, how would a 16 team SPL1 suit the 12 teams already in the SPL? Would it be a 30 game season? Would it be some new convoluted split? Some new competition introduced to make up the shortfall? What would have to be remembered too, from the point of view of the existing 12 SPL teams, is, if it’s going to return to playing each other twice a season, instead of 4 times, it’s not going to make much, if any, difference financially to fast track Sevco into the SPL as opposed to maintaining the status quo! So why bother?
So it is clear that any reconstruction propoals along these lines could only be for the benefit of Sevco, as if we wouldn’t know that; but proposals are one thing, and as we’ve seen, not everybody, in fact very few, within the game (I include us supporters) are prepared to let Regan, Doncaster et al ride roughshod over our game for the sake of the biggest cheats ever to devastate our sport. It could be yet another embarrassment for the SFA and SPL Sevco lovers.
Some great stuff on the entire page (below) re Ticketus et-al guys.
Fill yer boots 🙂
PS, apols if this stuff has already been posted.
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8719788/227/
Cortes says:
August 23, 2012 at 10:51
……………………………….
Good Morning. I have speculated thus in previous posts. It would not surprise me if person A appears to have received £2.4M but only received a portion with the rest being given in kickbacks to the originator of the scheme.
In respect of delay to Liquidation I am becoming more and more sceptical. I think it may be less to do with ongoing investigations and more to do with letting things run until it is to late to attempt to unravel them. Only time will tell whether BDO have the stomach to push the envelope.
Now we see the face of the devil, indeed!
As a member of UEFA’s marketing committee, Regan would have known since last November that there was the likelihood, nay, the certainty, of extra millions coming in to Scottish Football through the centrally-negotiated media deal relating to international matches.
Where then, the justification for his’ slow, lingering death’ comment, and the bullying and misinformation-giving to the SPL/SFL?
It now seems abundantly clear that his principal, and unprincipled, brief was to save the cheating club at all costs, by hurrying on an ill-thought, desperate ‘re-construction’
He got a bloody nose on that occasion.
He has now come back, like a dog to its vomit, to push again for the same end.
This time, though, he has learned to play skilfully on the decency of most members of the wider SFA, hoping to con them by the appearance of true ‘democratic process’ and the appointment of a committee under ( hollow laugh at this point) an ‘independent chairman’.
Who can now believe that Regan and the present Board of the SFA are anything other than a busted flush, with not a shred of moral authority?
Which other organisation would still permit a thoroughly conflicted and , not to put too fine a point on it, thoroughly shifty, Chairman to continue in post AND to make public statements on its behalf, spouting a load of insincere cant?
If the Board had the genuine good of Scottish Football at heart, they would redeem their personal honour by standing down now.
Personal honour? Personal honour?? I can hear a Rab C Nesbit voice making an observation.
andypandymonium says:
August 23, 2012 at 09:37
10 0 Rate This
Brian Stockbridge of Zeus Capital………….same Brian Stockbridge that used to work for Grant Thornton? They had something to do with RFC (IA) did they not???
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There’s a photo of the guy in that KDS thread that I posted.
Cortes says:
August 23, 2012 at 10:51
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Anyone else speculating that the “nuclear” info relates to EBT monies supposedly being paid to A in fact going to B, C or D?
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Been thinking this for a while Cortes……..the fact that B,C or D were paid through A’s account would suggest they knew it was dodgy, making a mockery of the defence that ‘our financial people said it was ok’
Brian Stockbridge photo here
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=11679213&t=8719788
RayCharles says:
August 23, 2012 at 02:20
http://thedemiseofrangersinpictures.blogspot.co.uk/
Sorry if this person’s latest blog has already been posted but I have just been alerted to it.
It appears that Gregory Vignal received £173,000 via an EBT when he wasn’t an Employee of Rangers
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Thanks for that link, Ray.
I think, that here, we might just be getting a sniff of something nuclear 🙂 and perhaps some weight added to the theory that the FTT and BDO delays are due to possible criminal investigations. Or am I just so untypically (for me) optimistic this morning?
I haven’t seen this mentioned before
From post #4533 on the Kerrydale Street link from LTL @ 11.18am
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8719788/227/
“Now it is going to get really tricky for David Murray to explain this one.
Gregory Vignal receive £173,000 via an EBT when he wasn’t an Employee of Rangers.
He was loaned from Liverpool to Rangers 2004-2005. His Employee Benefit Trust is subject to Tax and National Insurance as he wasn’t an Employee of Rangers Football Club, he was an Employee of Liverpool.
Federico Nieto receive £24,500 via an EBT when he wasn’t an Employee of Rangers
He was loaned from Almagro to Rangers 2005. His Employee Benefit Trust is subject to Tax and National Insurance as he wasn’t an Employee of Rangers Football Club, he was an Employee of Almagro.
Both players were not contractually Employed by Rangers but received the benefits of being Employed by Rangers.”
Arabest says:
August 23, 2012 at 11:36
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Cortes says:
August 23, 2012 at 10:51
6 0 Rate This
Anyone else speculating that the “nuclear” info relates to EBT monies supposedly being paid to A in fact going to B, C or D?
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Been thinking this for a while Cortes……..the fact that B,C or D were paid through A’s account would suggest they knew it was dodgy, making a mockery of the defence that ‘our financial people said it was ok’
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It’s obvious to a blind man what’s been going on mate.
The players were getting used to move money about, it really is that simple.
It’s a bit like your a tradesman and you have cash but how do you get rid of it without the tax man knowing well you ‘give’ it to someone who can get rid of it for you legitimately without anyone asking any questions.
People were saying on RTC the entire time that blog was running that it was a money laundering scam but most people thought that there was some really nefarious deeds being done as in links to NI and drugs etc but it looks as if, as all of these things are, that is was pure and simply greed and there were a lot of people with their hands in the till.
BTW, for what it;s worth I don’t think that Murray had his hand in the till but I do think that he ‘helped’ to get rid of some cash, well £6million of it anyway. I think Murray and some of the others simply looked the other way.
campsiejoe says:
August 23, 2012 at 11:46
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I haven’t seen this mentioned before
From post #4533 on the Kerrydale Street link from LTL @ 11.18am
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That is how it all evidently work CJ. They simply ‘gave’ the money to the players but probably no money actually changed hands.
Simply a book-keeping exercise.
Lodged as: Player A = £XX.00 and the real amount or the extra amount back into the pot.
Dead simple but idiotic.
League reconstruction on the agenda, again. What’s the betting stadium criteria is very high on list of requirements for top division which will by pure chance leave a space for Sevco franchise to fill?…cue rush of bidders for the franchise, Green exits with a stash and MSM ramp up the “they really are Rangers” tosh to ensure the bears run out to buy their now more expensive season books.
It couldn’t be done last time by fixing the rules for existing league entry so this time they’ll just create new leagues with new entry criteria.
Don’t think DM said he did not get an EBT of around £6M , what he said was that he did not have an EBT through the Rangers scheme. His was probably direct with MIH
Mikec says:
August 23, 2012 at 12:05
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Don’t think DM said he did not get an EBT of around £6M , what he said was that he did not have an EBT through the Rangers scheme. His was probably direct with MIH
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What he said was that he had never taken a penny out of ragers, ebt or not.
Tin Hat on!!!
Quite frankly, I would prefer to see a SFA with officials from the OF barred from participating.
then we might get some fairness throughout Scottish football.
Can anyone come up with a good idea of what the original plan was if the premise was to ”save” the club? Or was it always about one final payday and kill it off?
Fifer says:
August 23, 2012 at 12:17
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Tin Hat on!!!
Quite frankly, I would prefer to see a SFA with officials from the OF barred from participating.
then we might get some fairness throughout Scottish football.
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Why Celtic officials?
All of the dodgy stuff has been done with rangers officials at the SFA and is still being done.
BTW, why only pay off the small creditors why not the pay back the £95million ripped off from the State?
And, the £26million ripped off from Ticketus?
Fifer says:
August 23, 2012 at 12:17
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Yes, your tin hat is required. What we need is a transparent structure that has the relevant people in post irrespective of the club they are associated with. All the offical bodies in Scottish football are made up of members who have an interest – the SPL and SFL are creations of the clubs, for the clubs. The SFA/SPL/SFL boards should all have non-Exec directors with no direct interest in any club.
Mikec says:
12:05
Mark Daly BBC doc named Minty is highest beneficiary of the RANGERS EBT scheme
Sugar Daddy says:
August 23, 2012 at 11:55
The implication would be that Queens Park FC could be granted access to the top tiers of Scottish football by virtue of their (Hampden) stadium perhaps at the expense of a team finishing above them the previous year.
You can see both sides of the argument here with LTL and Fifer – an SFA ran by clubs outwith Celtic and Sevco placates the supporters in the rest of Scottish football, while Celtic supporters (of which I am one) have the right to ask why their officials should be lumped in with the RFC(Deid)/Sevco chancers.
Personally I would be with Fifer on this one, assuming we lived in a perfect world – but he has to bear this in mind. There are still several officials in various clubs outwith Sevco and Celtic, in various leagues within Scotland, who have open sympathies with Sevco in its various incarnations. See messrs Dowling, Ballantyne and Maitland for proof. I dare say that there are Celtic-minded individuals in office as well, though they’re clearly not as blatant about it as Ballantyne and Dowling have been.
The whole ‘UEFA dont recognise The Rangers’ thing.
I dont think UEFA carry information on any lower league teams.
Searched for Thistle and a couple of other non SPL clubs and the site didnt bring anything back.
I dont think its a valid argument that the 13 May game against ST J proves anything other than complete disinterest from UEFA.
Fifer says:
August 23, 2012 at 12:17
Tin Hat on!!!
Quite frankly, I would prefer to see a SFA with officials from the OF barred from participating.
then we might get some fairness throughout Scottish football.
============================================================
Michael Johnston of Kilmarnock has always been fair, his one solitary vote was the opposite of every other club in the league.
Could you tell me who the OF officials are? Are they all from one club??
Whats fair about excluding officials from any one club??
More than a tin hat required, tryu a bunker.
Fifer, there is no OF, I don’t understand your attempts to link Celtic to this corrupt farce.
Reading Stewart Regans article in the Mail it would appear that he is unsure whether or not the Sky/ESPN deal has been signed or not.
Any proof, apart from SevCO being on the telly that it has?
Surprised that the details of the deal hav enot been published or are these commercially confidential??
They must have something in them that explains how much SevcO will be paid for being shown 15 times in a season.
They must have clauses stating what happens if SevCo or any other club, goes bust during a season.
These details should be openly known to all clubs before any deal was signed..
Cortes says:
August 23, 2012 at 10:51
17 1 Rate This
Anyone else speculating that the “nuclear” info relates to EBT monies supposedly being paid to A in fact going to B, C or D?
………………………………………………………………………
I apologise if this has been brought up already, I’m having trouble keeping up with all the posts. There was a Rangers player – Marvin Andrews – who was emphatic that he didn’t receive payments from the EBT:
“I can’t deny or hide the fact that I played for the club during the time in question but I got my salary like everybody else and I paid my taxes as normal.
“I collected my wages at Rangers and have the pay slips to prove it. I could see for myself where the tax had been taken off and everything I had done.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/rangers-in-crisis-marvin-andrews-denies-858128
Yes, I know it’s the Record, but it is a direct quote and it seems quite unambiguous, not like Dodd’s equivocation. Has this been followed up?
The master plan is newco back in top tier asap. With the assets at their disposal this should be duly accomplished. But there’s many a slip. Insurance will be needed. Honest mistakes (not the normal periodic errors made by all human beings) will occur as required, as in the past. This is the on field in your face corruption of last resort.
How can a web site monitoring corruption ignore the ultimate? I know it’s a problem area riddled with whataboutery. Would a couple of ground rules not limit that, e.g. only result-altering dud decisions, backed by recorded evidence to be considered, and only from known contributors? This is a broad outline only. It can be done, in my opinion.
Not to do it will have tears of joy rolling down well known faces.
Re the vote of no confidence in Regan. I am sure one of the SFL chairmen said that he was told that it could only happen at an AGM and that that, would not be until June.
In regard to restructuring, what the details are will not be made public until after the New Year. Why, because Doncaster previously mentioned that in regard to the restructuring plans, he would look at the league tables at around Xmas. They would then look at finalising the plan.
Attn Stewart Regan.
Dear sir.
I feel compelled to contact you about the proposals for league reconstruction, and the ambiguous kite flying that has began in todays media outlets. Of course scottish footballs structure should be looked at as the game has been stagnant for 20 years, but no matter how you dress this up, it is no more than another blatant attempt at shoe horning the new club that is TRFC as high up the league as possible.
The humiliating fiasco of the close season is behind us now and surely the clubs and their fans wishes have been made abundantly clear. Many clubs faced true armageddon due to fan boycotts on season tickets and sponsorship lobbying if they had forced the liquidated rangers tribute act upon us. This is in no way an anti rangers agenda and purely about the fact that rfc are guilty of 2 seperate tax scams and most likely to be found guilty on a third and even bigger tax scam, that will see the total amount deprived to the countries revenues rise to £90,000,000. Many other creditors including sfa member clubs and international teams see the total liquidation figure rise to£135,000,000, a vast amount i am sure you would agree. On top of this it appears that rfc have been using illegally registered players to hide this scam and the president of your organisation is heavily conflicted due to his involvement and receipt of monies from the ebt scheme.
The bbc have claimed a Mr Souness also recieved payments while not employed at rangers and rumours abound that Walter Smith also benefitted in this way while employed as scotland manager. Very suspicious and irregular practises for sure.
If as likely,rfc lose the big tax case and registered players deliberately illegally then i am sure you will be aware that this has cost all scottish clubs millions of pounds in lost revenue, and the chance to win honours fairly.
At no point in this saga has there been any expediency or integrity when i has come to applying the existing rules, and only fan pressure stopped the outrageous scandal being compounded by the inclusion of a brand new club into our top flight. As you know, rfc finished second last year but are not competing in the CL qualifiers, this is purely because UEFA recognise them as a new club.
I can assure you the same resentmentam amongst the fans remains, the fans will quit the game in droves if you again attempt to bully this establishment favourite into our midst. You have singularly failed the game and your customers on this matter. Please stop repeating your mistakes and stand up to this dog whistling entity and do your job for the benefit of every club without favour.
I will post this comment and any replies on The Scottish Football Monitor blog, so you will do well to remember how resourceful and organised we have become, and the spotlight that has already been shone in shadowy places is upon you.
The bampots will not go away.
Govern our game fairly.
Thank you.
Rab.
Sent from Samsung Mobile
My point was when there is anyone from the OF on the SFA board i.e. Ogilvie(ex) Riley etc the blame always goes to these guys! we can see the sfa/spl are corrupt with that announcement this morning about parachuting us back into a top tier or second tier when that is not what we fans want.Who does it benefit? you voted us out and we accept that, no way do I want to be parachuted back into a top tier to suit money men, and thats what this is about, they will probably have a stadia clause that would allow us into the top 16 if they get their way, so, I hope the fans base cry ” Foul” again and let nature take its course. On paying back taxes, I bloody well wish we could, should never been in this position if that twat Murray and Shyster hadnt got a hold on our club. My main concern is paying back all the small creditors, and making sure we have the right guys running our club.
Doon the slope says:
August 23, 2012 at 00:15
As has been pointed out on here before, this is not just about money. That’s why Charles Green will make money.
===================
For someone to make money it must come from someone else. In this instance it will come from the Rangers fans.
They have bought their season tickets, they have bought their merchandise, fair play to them for doing it. Will they buy their shares when they become available.
That really is the big question here. Everything else is about simply keeping the new business going and maintaining the illusion that they still support the same club as they have for years, and their father supported before them. It’s quite easy to sell that to them, it’s something they desperately want to believe anyway.
If Mr Green can pull this off, and get them to put tens of millions of pounds into a share issue then he will make Sir David Murray’s smoke and mirrors look like a cheap parlour trick.
Some few of you who ‘TUPE’d’ across from the RTC blog may remember that I posted on 26th June a letter I had sent to BBC Radio Scotland.
I sent a couple of reminders.
In this morning’s post I received a reply from Michelle Walls,Assistant to Head of Radio, BBC Scotland.
She tells me that Ewan Angus, head of Sport , replied to me on 17th August . I have not yet received that letter: it may come in a day or so.
She also says that John Boothman,Head of News and Current Affairs, will be addressing my concerns in a separate letter.
She apologises for the delay.
I will let you know when I receive these letters.
( Is it technically possible to scan a letter and copy and paste into the blog the way you can scan a doc and send it as an attachment in an email? )
Re Murray and an EBT ,did it not come up that some of his family had received an EBT and what he was saying was a play with words ,ie, that he alone had not taken a penny out of rangers ,when you go back about 10 years or so when they listed “audited” accounts a transfer of shares to his son appeared in those accounts ,nothing sinister in that of course ,but then again there is nothing sinister in this whole scenario .
info@scottishfa.co.uk
get in aboot them
Readcelt says:
August 23, 2012 at 12:59
The whole ‘UEFA dont recognise The Rangers’ thing.
—–
And … further to my mention of Fiorentina, who re-constituted and fiddled their way up the Leagues from Serie C2 with help from the Italian FA, it may be noted that their UEFA page contains the history of the “old” Fiorentina …
http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=52817/profile/index.html
john clarke says:
August 23, 2012 at 13:25
( Is it technically possible to scan a letter and copy and paste into the blog the way you can scan a doc and send it as an attachment in an email? )
——–
You could scan it as a JPG, upload it to Photobucket and provide the link in a post…
Letters from official bodies are normally typed so should be capable of being (text) scanned – though the file may need a little editing in case bits don’t come out right.
The Rangers Football Club have not been re-created by Rangers people, they have been re-created by people and investors, probably at some level connected or linked to Octopus/Ticketus, in order to take a helluva lot of money from Rangers fans over the next 2-5 years and playing on their loyalty by selling them season ticket books, burgers pies & bovril, strips & scarves, matchday hospitality, financial services and even offer them the chance to buy 49% of the company at several multiplies of the £5.5M they loaned to buy/fund 100% of the companies assets to begin with.
Put a winning Rangers team on the pitch and watch the money flood in, gradually increasing the prices back into SPL & European levels.
Sign & pay players that will put bums on seats and also get them spending big in the other areas of the clubs activities.
This is how Green & his investors and somewhere down the chain Ticketus get their money back. Rangers fans will pay in full for the Green revolution, ensure they & their partners get revenue streams and profits back via the various “Rangers” trading companies and websites and for all that the fans can own just under half the club whilst the sevco consortium keep the other half and majority control having been repaid in spades.
Unless something damaging comes out about Green or the source of his funds or something happens to undo the asset sale by Duff & Phelps then I don’t see how or why his plans won’t be ultimately successful. The bears would appear to be buying season tickets and funding The Rangers again in big numbers. By fostering a seige mentality then there is little reason to believe that a relatively lucrative and successful share issue of 49% isn’t feasible?
In case people haven’t looked at the KDS site it is of interest to note that soem Sevconians are just as wary as people on here with regard to the Ticketus issue. Like many of us the author is just looking for clarity.
“Am I about to start a Charles Green fan club? No, I still have many, many questions. For example, I want to know what the relationship is (if any) between Zeus Capital and Octopus Investment. I also want to know if there is a relationship between Green and Keith Carby the executive of Metro Bank, the institution being used by Rangers at the moment. Because there is a substantiated relationship between Carby and Guy Myles the MD of Octopus Investments, the parent company of Ticket Us. Both Carby and Myles are directors of Omnis Investments Limited. It might be something. It might be nothing. I just want Mr. Green to clear it up. In fairness, I think that if the proposed IPO goes through then there will be a lot more clarity on who owns what and what the commercial plans are for the club.”
http://www.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=876:football-debts-charles-green&catid=103:board&Itemid=531
Fifer says:
August 23, 2012 at 12:17
Tin Hat on!!!
Quite frankly, I would prefer to see a SFA with officials from the OF barred from participating.
then we might get some fairness throughout Scottish football.
_____________________________________________________________
While I can see where you are coming from, I cannot agree with what you say, in fact you contradict yourself with two words in that one sentence: ‘barred’ and ‘fairness’. How can it be ‘fair’ to ‘bar’ any member, no matter who they are? And, as has been made clear on this site, and on RTC, the ‘OF’ no longer exists, which in itself will be a great step forward for Scottish football.
1.Readcelt says:
August 23, 2012 at 12:59
The whole ‘UEFA dont recognise The Rangers’ thing.
I dont think its a valid argument that the 13 May game against ST J proves anything other than complete disinterest from UEFA.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
UEFA do recognise The Rangers’ thing
UEFA will not permit any newco to play in Europe until they have been in business for 3 yrs and can provide satisfactory accounts
All this nonsense about transferring the RFC license , claiming the history etc is irrelevant to UEFA
Sevco are a Newco to UEFA .They are not Oldco with a slightly different name that holds Oldcos license who have been suspended for 3 yrs by UEFA for dying. If this was true Sevco would be able to evidence a letter to Oldco from UEFA stating their suspension .
There is no such letter because there is no such suspension for a club that dies
Sevco don’t qualify for recognition until they have 3 yrs of acceptable accounts
You can bet your boots that Sevco havent even bothered to enquire about their european status and it will not become a matter of interest to UEFA until they do
Angus says:
August 23, 2012 at 13:34
‘You could scan it as a JPG, upload it to Photobucket and provide the link in a post…
Mr Bunny says:
August 23, 2012 at 13:41
Letters from official bodies are normally typed so should be capable of being (text) scanned
—–
Thanks, Angus and Bunny. I’ll fiddle about and experiment.But my pc abilities are away below those of a three-year-old, so I won’t be holding my breath!
Charlie Brown says:
August 23, 2012 at 13:43
0 0 Rate This
The Rangers Football Club have not been re-created by Rangers people, they have been re-created by people and investors, probably at some level connected or linked to Octopus/Ticketus, in order to take a helluva lot of money from Rangers fans over the next 2-5 years and playing on their loyalty by selling them season ticket books, burgers pies & bovril, strips & scarves, matchday hospitality, financial services and even offer them the chance to buy 49% of the company at several multiplies of the £5.5M they loaned to buy/fund 100% of the companies assets to begin with.
Put a winning Rangers team on the pitch and watch the money flood in, gradually increasing the prices back into SPL & European levels.
Sign & pay players that will put bums on seats and also get them spending big in the other areas of the clubs activities.
This is how Green & his investors and somewhere down the chain Ticketus get their money back …
————–
Thought-provoking post Charlie. So has the whole admin period perhaps been steered towards this end result? If so, how fair is it that one creditor can influence proceedings for their own purposes?
And how helpful have the admins actually been? We they employed because they were ‘Ticketus-minded’? Did they make sure the club went for a knock-down price, though almost entirely intact, to someone with connections to a major creditor? Surely if any of this can be proved then every other person or company owed money will be less than impressed by Duff & Phelps work. And is it at all legal?
Oh yes, someone was looking into a conflict of interest …
smallteaser says:
August 23, 2012 at 12:59
Michael Johnston of Kilmarnock has always been fair, his one solitary vote was the opposite of every other club in the league.
——————————-
Smallteaser, I wonder what you mean by “fair”. Mr. Johnston asked for the Killie fans’ views on the “Sevco to be sledged into SPL” vote. He left his appeal for comment until it was realistically too late for most folk to reply. He then insulted Killie fans’ intelligence by stating that he abstained in the SPL vote because only 36% of those entitled to vote in the Killie survey (shareholders/season ticket holders) had voted against the proposal, but then refused to say how many had voted for it! He added insult to injury by not even indicating how many had actually voted in total! That sounds eminently “fair” to me. You may also not be amazed to hear that all the paperwork associated with the vote has since been destroyed. I suggest that you check with the Electoral Reform Society regarding whether they would regard this as a “fair” voting process.
I do not want to infer anything from the set of events outlined above. I leave it to all “fair” minded people to construe what they will.
Some little while later, and after a Chester v. Killie pre-season friendly, I understand that Mr. Johnston’s car was chased away from the stadium by a very vocal selection of the Killie “minority”.
On a much more positive note, and probably not unrelated to the above abuse of process, The Killie Supporters’ Trust is currently engaged in a project which will hopefully result in Community Ownership of Kilmarnock Football Club. I would ask that all true (and properly fair-minded) Scottish Football supporters give this plan their backing, whatever form that backing might take.
Angus it seems you are at the 3rd stage of the Kubler-Ross model old son better take your shoelaces and hide them and get some prozac from your GP there’s a good lad.
rab says:
August 23, 2012 at 13:19
4 0 Rate This
Attn Stewart Regan.
Very good letter and full of valid points and views that i’m sure most fans share. I just now begin to feel the campaign to let Newco Rangers carry on, is already signed sealed and delivered. I have followed blogs and kept abreast of the situation, and seemed certain justice would be done. Oldco would be punished and left to the scrapheap to become as third Lanark etc. But does anyone else feel the stage is already set, for the Oldco to carry on as if nothing has even happened. Seems to me the media already believe this as true, and say it without any facts to back it up etc. This liquidation seems to have only been for a company, yet it was the company that fund’s the club to cheat etc. They cannot be two separate entities, as surely all clubs could therefore take the right royal p*ss out of the taxman creditors etc. Or is this is where we are at this has happened, they take a slap on the wrists with demotion. Then we re-construct Scottish football to allow them back up and the punishment is therefore toothless. To top it all of the authorities allow them to be the same club. I don’t know about anyone else but this is what I think is now going to happen. If it does I fear my love of the game is going to be lost, how can I follow a game with dis-honesty, cheating, lying, corruption and blatent dis-regard of what is right. The Mayan calender may not be for the end of the world, but for the end of Scottish football for many even minded fans. I only hope the letters etc reach the SFA but I suspect they will already be in the Cathkin landfill, for the authorities already have there plan.
Charlie Brown says:
August 23, 2012 at 13:43
A fair shout Charlie and at the end of the day what is wrong with that if everyone ends up happy. The Sevconians have a team, Ticketus get their cash back and Green gets his cut.
It wasn’t really Ticketus, Whyte and Green who got the club into the state it was. Unless there is a direct connection from SDM to the others then all these other guys have done is to maximise on an opportunity as venture capitalists and asset strippers.
The main problem will be for the rest of us who hoped the club would either
a) take their punishment and reform in a form fit for the 21st Century and work their way back
OR
b) be destoyed never to return again.
If the Green revolution succeeds will eat at our souls for a long time due to the fact that we all know in our hearts that no other club would have been given such favourable treatment.
Like it or lump it we are being shafted in terms of the tax bill and at the end of the day these guys are all wheelers and dealers and very few will be loosing sleep about doing whatever deals they are doing.
It may be the best that may come out of it is that SDM and the rest of the old regime will get nailed by the FTT, BDO and the SPL investigations. Hopefully titles will be stripped.
Of course the whole thing could go down the pan again, but I think that is looking less likely but we should keep monitoring all the same.
I dont know if re-construction of the League will be shoehorned in very easily next year.There was an awful lot of genuine anger about Regan and Donkey’s attempts to firstly put Sevco into the SPL,and then putting the onus on the SFL chairmen to admit them into the lower tier,thereby passing the buck.
The chairmen are not stupid,it will be more beneficial to them for Sevco to climb up the leagues than have them put straight into div 1. So Yorkie and whoever else is involved might just have to wait a wee while longer. Good.
Haywire says:
August 23, 2012 at 14:06
My tongue was inserted in my cheek when posting.
Fifer says:
August 23, 2012 at 13:19
My point was when there is anyone from the OF on the SFA board i.e. Ogilvie(ex) Riley etc the blame always goes to these guys! we can see the sfa/spl are corrupt with that announcement this morning about parachuting us back into a top tier or second tier when that is not what we fans want.Who does it benefit? you voted us out and we accept that, no way do I want to be parachuted back into a top tier to suit money men, and thats what this is about, they will probably have a stadia clause that would allow us into the top 16 if they get their way, so, I hope the fans base cry ” Foul” again and let nature take its course. On paying back taxes, I bloody well wish we could, should never been in this position if that twat Murray and Shyster hadnt got a hold on our club. My main concern is paying back all the small creditors, and making sure we have the right guys running our club.
________________________________________________________________________
Again you make a good attempt to show the reasonable side of the Rangers’ support but continue with some of the misconceptions that Sevco and the MSM peddle.
Ogilvie gets blamed because he IS to blame, or shares the blame with all those who officiated at Ibrox during the EBT years and, as if that wasn’t bad enough, he continues in his position at the top of the SFA!
What has Riley been blamed for? Who has been blaming him? As far as I’m aware, Rod Petrie, of Hibs, has taken more flack than anyone else – over the leaked email.
When were Rangers (or Sevco) voted OUT of anything? They were very lucky to be voted INTO SFL3! You may accept the consequences of RFC’s wrongdoings, but if the ‘we’ you use refers to those running the company you see as Rangers’ successors, the only ‘acceptance’ has been because they had no choice but to accept (or go out of existence) and have missed no opportunity to take some very nasty digs at everyone they see as doing them ill.
WOTTPI says:
August 23, 2012 at 14:11
WOTTPI of course it matters, it matters or should matter if you are a Rangers fan that the money you as a fan and customer and sponsor or new shareholder etc isn’t being used 100% to fund the Rangers Football Club but that some percentage of that money will be siphoned off either directly or indirectly to Green & his investors. The Rangers Shop Ltd – who owns that? when you buy some merchandise where does that money and any profits go? Same with the pies & catering, matchday hospitality, the new planned Rangers megastore website, the financial services they plan to provide etc and also the proceeds of the planned share issue? Does that money go 100% to the Rangers or does it go to payback Green & his cronies?
It also matters if you are not a Rangers fan but instead a fan or supporter of Scottish football and it’s clubs. Basically The Rangers behemoth is to be recreated along the same lines as the last 25 years. How does Scottish football peacefully and successfully co-exist with The Rangers (& Celtic to an extent) planning and intending to be massively financially dominant, fully intent on pursuing and maximising their own commercial interests? How does that sit and square with the best interests of Scottish football? ie ALL of Scottish Football not just the 2 major Glasgow clubs?
Is back to business as usual and the never ending Punch & Judy show really the end game?
Charlie Brown says:
August 23, 2012 at 13:43
“By fostering a seige mentality then there is little reason to believe that a relatively lucrative and successful share issue of 49% isn’t feasible?”
====================================================
Don’t know about them buying 49% worth of shares, they had no interest in buying into the club before.
How much would 49% be worth?? If the whole shebang is worth £10 million would the share issue be for £4.9 million?
For any club in Scotland with limited income and no European place for 4 seasons this would appear rather high.
Would the debenture holders who have just been stiffed have the same notion to throw away other money?
Would the big investors be interested in a minority share and no place on the board?
Is there any other amounts that have to be thrown in along with the £10 million, ticketus, CW etc?
Even with no debt, the club still have substantial overheads and a very large growing wage bill which cannot be reduced due to the transfer embargo.
I think there is a lot of detail to be released before any assumptions on share take up can be made.
2 defeats in a row at the wrong time kills everything and so does 10 five nil victories.
Its funny how people make out Celtic will wrap up the SPL early doors and the fans will have no interest yet do not see the same thing happening in SFL3.
Will 30k ST holders turnm up at Ibrox on Christmas Eve when the league is finshed?? Yes they will have the money but the interest will be gone.
.
http://www.scottishreview.net/DominicBrown8.shtml
An honest appraisal of the current situation………
chancer67 says:
August 23, 2012 at 14:07
Angus it seems you are at the 3rd stage of the Kubler-Ross model old son better take your shoelaces and hide them and get some prozac from your GP there’s a good lad.
——–
Do what? Is this because I posted UEFA-related stuff concerning Fiorentina and the machinations successfully employed in getting them back to the top?
I’m not Celtic-minded, but I’m certainly not Rangers-minded, if that’s what you’re getting at. I am of an ovine persuasion, for the record (not that I’ve ever made any secret of it!).
I was pointing out that we may not expect RFC(new)’s claim to the history of RFC(old) to be thrown out by UEFA.
It was a conjecture, though not explicitly stated, backed up with solid fact.
Because it puts what may be seen as a slightly positive slant on the wishes of RFC(new) supporters in that regard, I get a sarcy comment, supported by 5 TUs at time of this reply.
Why?
It does bring to mind accusations of being Celtic-minded when anyone posts something not wholely supportive of RFC (any flavour) on RM or FF.
In other words, is this blog supposed to be objective – or is it just for RFC bashing?
Really, I’d like to know.
Charlie Brown says:
August 23, 2012 at 13:43
I can fully see what you say being the basic plan of Green and Co and your thought that 49% uptake of shares would still be a good return for them makes sense. Even much less would be more than they, Green and his cohorts, have at the moment. I’m certain the plan is to syphon off as much as possible in the next year, or less, but if they are still around in 12 month’s time it’ll be interesting to see how long it takes to produce audited accounts (again) as they would instantly show whether or not the merchandising income and share issue proceeds had reached newco’s accounts! Until accounts are produced I would imagine it will be quite easy for them to do all the syphoning off they want, unless some mole lets the cat out of the bag!
On the share issue though, is there not a minimum uptake required before any floatation can proceed, and could they possibly find anyone stupid enough to underwrite it?
Aah – I am a bit dim I know but I think I have got the nuclear stuff. Some Rangers players – I am surmising were given payslips with their bottom line payment which showed Tax and NI paid, but in reality this money had come from the MIH EBT scheme without their knowledge. Thus Marvin’s contracted pay of say half a million a year was given to him apparently after tax at say around 250 or 260 K pay year – which was paid from the club via the EBT thereby defrauding the taxman of the PAYE and NIC and saving that for the club.
Now that would be nuclear: fraud and criminal tax evasion – and if done on the scale implied ( i.e on all of those who hadn’t signed side letters and were essentially “duped” into the scheme) then long jail terms for all of those invoilved would ensue.
Just a notion – I am inclined to believe Marvin Andrews – though I think he’s barking on his religious views – as I believe him to be sufficiently driven and motivated by factors other than filthy lucre to be honest. Such a running of the scheme as outlined above would back up his statements on the matter.
Angus says:
August 23, 2012 at 14:58
Well said mate
@ Miki 67
Correct Miki – only it has all happened already!
Scottish football is dead.
What we have is not just a tribute act Rangers but a tribute act game in Scotland. Support it if you want but understand that all of out clubs are implicated in this and all are as diminished as the SEVCO ‘Gers by agreeing to have them in their midsts.
Angus 15.58 :
If I may as a fellow ovine follower add to your Fiorentina point ?
Tonight Mura of Slovenia take on Lazio in the Europa Cup. ND Mura 05 was founded on 16 June, 2005. The club emerged after the dissolution of NK Mura, a club which played in the Slovenian 1.SNL league for many years, but went bankrupt and was dissolved in 2004. However, ND Mura 05 is legally not considered to be the successor of NK Mura and the statistics and honours of the two clubs are kept separate by the Football Association of Slovenia and the Association of 1. SNL.
Seems clear enough to the footballing authority in Slovenia yet Mura’s page on UEFA.com refers to European participation dating back to 1995.
We can make of this info what we wish. A juxtaposition between Slovenian & Scottish football authority is obvious. However UEFA don’t seem to interfere in national decisions. Indeed, on the strength of Mura, Fiorentina & Rangers, there appears no distinction is drawn between old & new.
Personally I don’t like it but in all conscience, I can only report what I find.
The Invisible Line says:
August 23, 2012 at 03:32
For those of higher legal sound minds – so an Employee Benefit Trust can be legally given to people who are not employees? For instance the two players Vignal and Nieto as well as Souness, Cardigan (and perhaps even Swally himself hopefully).
Who determines who is eligible for an EBT? What are the rules? Could I have applied for a “loan”?
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I’m not of higher legal sound mind but this from the RFC 2005 Annual Report might help:
“The Rangers Employee Benefit Trust and Murray Group Management Ltd Renumeration Trust were established to provide incentives to certain employees AND OTHER SERVICE PROVIDERS.”
Danish Pastry says:
August 23, 2012 at 14:05
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Charlie Brown says:
August 23, 2012 at 13:43
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The Rangers Football Club have not been re-created by Rangers people, they have been re-created by people and investors, probably at some level connected or linked to Octopus/Ticketus, in order to take a helluva lot of money from Rangers fans over the next 2-5 years and playing on their loyalty by selling them season ticket books, burgers pies & bovril, strips & scarves, matchday hospitality, financial services and even offer them the chance to buy 49% of the company at several multiplies of the £5.5M they loaned to buy/fund 100% of the companies assets to begin with.
Put a winning Rangers team on the pitch and watch the money flood in, gradually increasing the prices back into SPL & European levels.
Sign & pay players that will put bums on seats and also get them spending big in the other areas of the clubs activities.
This is how Green & his investors and somewhere down the chain Ticketus get their money back …
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Thought-provoking post Charlie. So has the whole admin period perhaps been steered towards this end result? If so, how fair is it that one creditor can influence proceedings for their own purposes?
And how helpful have the admins actually been? We they employed because they were ‘Ticketus-minded’? Did they make sure the club went for a knock-down price, though almost entirely intact, to someone with connections to a major creditor? Surely if any of this can be proved then every other person or company owed money will be less than impressed by Duff & Phelps work. And is it at all legal?
Oh yes, someone was looking into a conflict of interest …
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I believe it was Paul Murray of the Blue Knights fame that said in an interview with Newsnight shortly after the club went into admin….”when the court was deciding whethere to appoint the HMRC admin team or CW’s choice and it looked like it might go to HMRC…it’s the first time I’ve seen genuine panic on his (CW) face”…
I think we can take it Duff and Phelps have been part of the scam…as Mark Daly’s broadcast showed certain people knew what was going on who was involved and what was at stake…
Charlie refuses to release the names of the investors…for all we know it could be the mafia..refuses to release who owns Ibrox…for all we know it could be Robert Mugabe…
To suggest something ain’t right here is an understatement of epic proportions.
It stinks like a bucket of prawns in the mid-day sun and Stewart Regan has supported this and assisted in its success…
zax_vibex says:
August 23, 2012 at 12:51
A possibility but only if QP finish higher than Sevco in SFL3. Won’t happen and wouldn’t be allowed to happen. Also attaching the words “professional” and “full time” to playing squads would be a simple task.
The preceding months’ events have shown us what the SPL chairmen and SFA/SPL bosses are really interested in. This is all about money now.
Regan now says more money from European central pot possible, new TV deals signed which unless they are complete buffoons will have a further step up in cash if Sevco get back into top tier within a year.
Whatever the “nuclear” info if it exists, any criminal investigations, any further EBT scandals will all be attached, properly, to oldco, not the Sevco franchise by the MSM.
It would make a nice PHD thesis in Psychology to study how hundreds of thousands people cope with such cognitive dissonance if there is more to come on the EBT story.
ax_vibex says:
August 23, 2012 at 12:51
A possibility but only if QP finish higher than Sevco in SFL3. Won’t happen and wouldn’t be allowed to happen. Also attaching the words “professional” and “full time” to playing squads would be a simple task.
The preceding months’ events have shown us what the SPL chairmen and SFA/SPL bosses are really interested in. This is all about money now.
Regan now says more money from European central pot possible, new TV deals signed which unless they are complete buffoons will have a further step up in cash if Sevco get back into top tier within a year.
Whatever the “nuclear” info if it exists, any criminal investigations, any further EBT scandals will all be attached, properly, to oldco, not the Sevco franchise by the MSM.
It would make a nice PHD thesis in Psychology to study how tens of thousands of bears cope with such cognitive dissonance if there is more to come on the EBT story.
Stirling Don says:
August 23, 2012 at 15:26
That was interesting, I then wondered how they managed to find themselves in the top league when only set up:-
“ND Mura 05 was founded on 16 June, 2005.[1][2][3] The club emerged after the dissolution of NK Mura, a club which played in the Slovenian 1.SNL league for many years, but went bankrupt and was dissolved in 2004.[4][5] However, ND Mura 05 is legally not considered to be the successor of NK Mura and the statistics and honours of the two clubs are kept separate by the Football Association of Slovenia and the Association of 1. SNL.[1][6]
Mura 05 finished the 2010–11 Slovenian Second League on fourth place, behind Aluminij, IB Interblock, and Dravinja. However, all three clubs declined promotion to the Slovenian PrvaLiga due to financial reasons. As the next club on the table Mura 05 received and accepted an invitation to join the top division.[7]”