The Day I was on the Scotland U-23 Bench

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It’s been a crappy year. If you don’t believe me, look at the two lists below this piece – full of people who have left us since Jan 1 2016. Some might say in a post Brexit/Trump world they are all better off, but that is neither here nor there.

In addition we have witnessed yet another year of the “black is white – new is old” suspension of disbelief argument from the football authorities. The same dysfunctional crew who gave us the 5-way agreement and whose cerebral CPU cycles are dominated by a strategy to choose the correct term to use for various concepts like; liquidation, Rangers FC, pitch invasion, independent inquiry, (to name just a few).
They now think we will be satisfied with what their crack investigation into child sex abuse – and its no doubt cherry-picked and narrow terms of reference – will come up with.

Still in place at Hampden, is a Press Officer who thinks he IS the SFA, and a chief executive who should BE the SFA, but who prefers, in his own words to do “nothing”. These are the people who, in the midst of a public debate over concerns for racism and homophobia in the game, have given a coaching job involving young people to a man who has been proven a racist and a homophobe.

These are the people who constantly have their hands out for public funds, including one to fund a grade-A bonkers facial recognition scheme to root out sectarianism (and all the other ISMS that they have just endorsed by appointing Malky Mackay).

Yet we complain about the Americans when they elect an insane man to power?

All is however not lost. Within living memory, and since it is Christmas, I’d like to relate a warm, cuddly, sentimental and very true story about the late Jock Stein. It is proof that there was a time before the madness that has enveloped Scottish Football when real people of quality, blessed with empathy for fans, roamed these lands.

Rewind to 13th May 1975. Myself and three great friends, two teenagers from each half of the Old Firm, decided to walk over to Hampden Park to see Scotland playing a friendly match against Portugal. Two of the guys – ironically the Rangers ones – lived in a wee street right across the road from Celtic Park, and we set out from ‘their bit’, walking through Strathie’s Park and down Springfield Road into Dalmarnock Road. We were a bit behind schedule and of course we were all skint so we had to walk. As my mates dithered, I walked on ahead shouting at them something like ‘hurry up!’ (although a tad less politely).

As I approached the junction of Dalmarnock Road and Adelphi Street, I absent-mindedly did a bit of jay-walking and was nearly hit on the backside by a ton of German tin making a left turn. The passenger window of the car was rolled down, and I prepared an impetuous come-back to what I was sure was going to be a rollicking.

Instead, a strangely familiar man in a thick Irish brogue poked his head out of the window and said; “Where you going?”

As my brain registered “Sean Fallon”, I made a quick connection, turned to the driver and saw that it was Big Jock. Thoughts of “what an honour to be knocked down by Jock Stein” flashed through my befuddled between-ear mass.

Recovering quickly;  “To the game” I said.

“Jump in!” shouted Mr Stein

“My pals are just behind me”

“Tell them to jump in as well”

I never asked the guys when they realised it was the greatest living Scotsman driving the car, but we didn’t know many folk with a Merc, so I suppose they knew it wasn’t a relative who had stopped me.

The four of us climbed into the spacious big bench seat in the back of the car for the fifteen minute journey. Immediate questions.

Yes Jock (we were pals by now 🙂 ) was going to the game and so was Sean, but they were going home for something to eat first. Yes, it was a great perk of being a manager that you didn’t have to queue, but what did we think of the team?

The chat at the time was that Kenny Dalglish hadn’t hit it off with Scotland because Bremner was cramping his style. Bremner was injured that night, so my pal Gerry Connor (permission to use his name has been granted!) told The Boss (we were really close by now) that we expected KD fireworks.

What did we think of Hutchinson? Since it definitely appeared to be posed in rhetorical fashion we chose “not very much”.
The Gaffer concurred.

One of the Rangers guys (Big Jimmy) wondered aloud why Alfie Conn, by then of Spurs, was not selected. It was a ridiculous situation said my mate. Probably keeping him for the U-23s he thought out loud, before realising that Jock was the then Under 23 manager.

“Oh, eh, um, sorry! I forgot that was you!” said Big Jimmy. “No worries, he’s a very good player” said Big John (by now we felt we had known him forever).

Truth is, we were scared shitless; totally in awe of the man driving, DRIVING US, to the match. He really wanted to know what we thought, who we liked to see play, who we would pick who wasn’t in the squad.

Another thing was that despite it being huge for us all, we all wanted it it over with as quickly as possible so we could talk about it. But it wasn’t over yet. The final flourish was when we got dropped off at the Beechwood. We got out of the car as the crowds were descending on Hampden. Stein’s car was noticed right away, but who were these young scallywags emerging fro the back?

“Thanks Boss, thanks Sean!” we all shouted so the bystanders could ear. Stein smiled, waved at us and sped off to Kings Park for his dinner.

“See you in the morning Gaffer!”

Chests puffed out, we all assumed the pose of Scotland Under-23 starlets. Scotland won 1-0, but I can honestly say I don’t remember a bloody thing about that match. I do remember being on the Scotland U-23 bench though 🙂

The moral of the story is clear to me. In the background of Dave Scott’s claim in our podcast that the SFA needed to get its act together, and to engage more with the fans, the men of the Stein mould, our greatest football generation, are perhaps the last generation to possess the ability to do that.

He could have just beeped loudly in frustration and went off home for his dinner that evening, but he saw four young fans – guys who loved the game anyway – and made us love it a bit more after that fifteen minute ride. For a few minutes out of his time, Jock Stein gave us all a lifetime of a cherished memory, which I have dined out on, and will continue to dine out on, forever.

Many years later, footballers of that era told me that it was commonplace for the likes of Billy McNeill and John Grieg to do the same in Glasgow, for Pat Stanton and Davie Holt in Edinburgh, and for Alex Hamilton and Jerry Kerr in Dundee.

Sadly, three decades later, I regularly witnessed footballers go to extraordinary lengths to avoid autograph hunters, ducking out of back doors and having stewards deliver their cars to remote places away from the public gaze.

Of the four lucky boys who chanced upon Jock Stein that night, I am still in touch with two. Big Jimmy has fallen of the radar, last heard of in England somewhere – as is Gerry, condemned to a purgatory of watching Blackburn Rovers!

Despite that, we will always share the bond of the night we were on the Under-23 bench seat in the back of Big Jock’s Merc.

We should remember that the game in this country prospered when it was more in tune with the people who followed it. Perhaps market equilibrium will one day bring it back, who knows, but for now, football is an industry where no-one in control at the clubs gives a flying doo-doo what we think.

 

At least we still have our memories. Of the great Jock Stein, to whom I was briefly related, of his assistant Sean Fallon, who I got to know a bit in later years, and of many football folk I was privileged enough to know, and who are no longer with us.

Just like the class of 2016 below, we miss them all.

 

Non Football Deaths in 2016

Date Name Age
04 Jan Robert Stigwood Producer 81
08 Jan David Bowie Musician 69
14 Jan Alan Rickman Actor 69
15 Jan DanHaggerty Grizzly Adams Actor 74
18 Jan Glen Frey Musician 67
28 Jan Paul Kantner Musician 74
19 Feb Harper Lee Author 89
28 Feb George Kennedy Actor 91
08 Mar George Martin Producer 90
09 Mar Robert Horton Wagon Train Actor 91
10 Mar Keith Emerson Musician 71
17 Mar Larry Drake LA Law Actor 66
18 Mar Joe Santos Rockford Files Actor 84
22 Mar Richard Bradford Man in a Suitcase Actor 81
24 Mar Garry Shandling Comedian 66
06 Apr Merle Haggard Musician 79
21 Apr Prince Musician 57
24 Apr Billy Paul Musician 81
19 May Alan Young Mr Ed Actor 96
03 Jun Muhammad Ali Boxer 74
14 Jun Ronnie-Claire Edwards Waltons Actor 83
28 Jun Scotty Moore Musician 84
19 Jul Garry Marshall Actor/Producer 81
13 Aug Kenny Baker Star Wars Actor 81
20 Aug Gene Wilder Actor 83
06 Sep Hugh O’Brian Wyatt Earp Actor 91
25 Sep Arnold Palmer Golfer 87
28 Sep Shimon Peres Politician 93
14 Oct Jean Alexander Coronation St Actor 90
24 Oct Bobby Vee Singer 73
24 Oct Pete Burns Musician 57
03 Nov Kaye Starr Singer 94
07 Nov Leonard Cohen Musician 82
11 Nov Robert Vaughan Actor 83
13 Nov Leon Russell Musician 74
25 Nov Fidel Castro Politician 90
06 Dec Peter Vaughan Porridge Actor 93
07 Dec Greg Lake Musician 69
08 Dec John Glenn Astronaut 95
18 Dec Zsa-Zsa Gabor Actor 99
24 Dec Rick Parfitt Musician 67
24 Dec Liz Smith Royle Family Actor 95
25 Dec George Michael Musician 53
27 Dec Carrie Fisher Actor 60
28 Dec Debbie Reynolds Actor 84

 

 

Football Deaths in 2016

Date Name Club Age
22 Jan Tommy Bryceland St Mirren 76
22 Jan John Dowie Celtic 60
04 Feb Harry Glasgow Clyde 76
24 Feb Jim McFadzean Kilmarnock & Hearts 77
11 Mar Billy Ritchie Rangers Goalkeeper 79
20 Mar Alan Cousin Dundee, Hibs & Falkirk 78
24 Mar Johan Cruyff Ajax, Barcelona 68
31 Mar Jimmy Toner Dundee 92
06 May Chris Mitchell Queen of the South 27
11 May Bobby Carroll Celtic 77
14 May John Coyle Dundee United 83
20 Jun Willie Logie Rangers, Aberdeen 83
03 Jul Jimmy Frizzell Morton 79
06 Jul Davie Nicol Falkirk 80
08 Jul Jackie McInally Kilmarnock 79
21 Jul Dick Donnelly East Fife Goalkeper/Journalist 74
05 Aug Joe Davis Hibs Captain 75
21 Aug Rab Stewart Dunfermline 54
05 Sep Max Murray Rangers 80
13 Sep Matt Gray Third Lanark 80
01 Oct David Herd Man United & Scotland 82
10 Oct Eddie O’Hara Falkirk & Everton 80
16 Oct George Peebles Dunfermline 80
18 Oct Gary Sprake Leeds United 71
08 Nov Ian Cowan Partick Thistle, Falkirk & DAFC 71
16 Nov Daniel Prodan Rangers 44
25 Nov Jim Gillespie Dunfermline 69
26 Nov Davie Provan Rangers 75
10 Dec Tommy McCulloch Clyde Goalkeeper 82
11 Dec Charlie McNeil Stirling Albion 53
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About Big Pink

Big Pink is John Cole; a former schoolteacher based in the West of Scotland, He is also a print and broadcast journalist who is engaged in the running of SFM . Former gigs include Newstalk 106, the Celtic View, and Channel67. A Celtic fan, he is also the voice of our podcast initiative.

653 thoughts on “The Day I was on the Scotland U-23 Bench”


  1. bobcobbDecember 21, 2016 at 10:19
    ‘…BP makes the excellent point above that the board are acting in what they believe to be the best interest of the shareholders – or the “company”. .’
    ____________
    It seems clear to me that the Celtic Board could not demonstrate that there was no truth in the allegation that the SFA colluded with RFC to dishonestly grant a European Competition licence to that most dishonest of Football clubs.
    If the Res 12 ‘requistioners’ had been mistaken in any major point, the Board had means of access to UEFA and its law-makers and enforcers  to enable them to show that the ‘Requistioners’ were wrong in fact or law.
    That they have not publicly stated over the last three years that their genuine investigtions satisfied them that the SFA’s and RFC’s hands were clean, and that the Res 12 issue was unsound and spurious,is indication enough that they know damned fine that it is very soundly based indeed.
    It follows, then, that the Board do in fact believe that Celtic ( and perhaps another club or three) were deliberately cheated out of substantial monies by the SFA, the very governing body!
    It is quite wrong, in my view, to argue that in cheerfully accepting that loss, the Board could genuinely believe they were acting in the best interests of the company, unless their view is that it is better to kowtow to graft and corruption in their business world than to risk challenging that graft and corruption.
    If that is their view, then God help the wretched men. They deserve even more obloquy than DCK or SDM, since they prate on even more than those low-lives did about fairness, and integrity, and their origins in Christian charity.
    A Board of any kind of integrity would have checked out the evidence, and, if convinced that there had been jiggery pokery, would have gone public, and hunted the lying bas..rds out of office, and sued them for the losses they had sustained.
    I now don’t doubt that their devious minds are  working to get Res 12 ‘withdrawn’, with honeyed words and false assurances, because if it is not ‘withdrawn’, the Board will have to formally make a statement sooner or later.
    And I hope the ‘Requisitioners’ will not succumb to either threats or blandishments 


  2. Just to keep the pot boiling, I would not be surprised if there was a “nod and wink” agreement that would see Res 12 abandoned in return for a re appraisal of LNS,  if HRMC get a favourable verdict fro SC . TTFN (ask your parents).


  3. paddy malarkeyDecember 21, 2016 at 13:55
    ‘…a “nod and wink” agreement that would see Res 12 abandoned in return for a re appraisal of LNS, if HRMC get a favourable verdict fro SC .’
    ________
    If the UK Supreme Court upholds the CoS judgment, the ‘no sporting advantage’ nonsense of LNS is blown out of the water (as surely  as it was blown out of his nether external orifice in the first place)
    The titles and honours won dishonourably by EBT RFC would be stripped from their record,inevitably.
    They would simply have to be by the LNS logic, according to which, if EBT’s were legitimate, every other club has only itself to blame for not using them to buy players they couldn’t otherwise afford .
    If the SC decision is what it is generally expected to be, there is no bargaining chip in the ‘withdrawing’ of titles. Titles would, will,  go as a matter of sporting law, sports integrity, and truth and justice, not as any kind of shoddy ‘quid pro quo’!!


  4. Sorry, disagree, JC. That LNS could say that there was no sporting advantage and contradict SDM (the architect of the scheme)telling the tribunal that there was,shows you what you are up against . I reckon no title stripping, just some wee asterisks .


  5. bobcobbDecember 21, 2016 at 10:19  
    Personally I think that any business in any industry won’t go far wrong if it behaves ethically. I just wish those running Scottish Football would realise that.
    ====================
    That is my belief too borne of experience, sometimes the fear of what will happen from doing the ethical thing prevents an ethical decision and action happening, but in my experience, when I made what I thought was an ethical choice, the fear I had never materialised , quite the reverse if the opposite of fear is love.


  6. paddy malarkeyDecember 21, 2016 at 13:55  
    Just to keep the pot boiling, I would not be surprised if there was a “nod and wink” agreement that would see Res 12 abandoned in return for a re appraisal of LNS,  if HRMC get a favourable verdict fro SC . TTFN (ask your parents).
    =====================
    Not abandoned, combined. Remember the latest TJN/TOG report on the HMRC letter of 20th May 2011 which was the wee tax bill that was never provided to SPL lawyers in 2012 who were investigating the use of ebts with side letters since 1999.


  7. AuldheidDecember 21, 2016 at 19:48

    ________________________________________

     I love and commend your courage, your strength, your passion and integrity…


  10. Interesting update on newspaper print sales, and a plan to demolish ‘The Press Bar’ in Glasgow.
    Further proof that times have indeed changed irrevocably for print journalists.

    “…In November, the Daily Record sold 161,400 on a typical day – down from 181,150 in November 2015.
    As recently as August 2011, the Record sold more than 300,000 copies a day…”
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-38393580

    An almost 50% drop in output in c.5 years and dropping further still.

    And the DR’s tattered reputation will be a significant hindrance to a successful transition to a non-print business model, IMO.

    Oh well.


  14. Dearie me. Look at this Tweet from STV’s Grant Russell.  Where would you even start?

    Grant Russell @STVGrantHelp me. What is it you’re wanting from Scottish football coverage online? What’s the innovative idea or gap you want to see filled?
    9:33 PM – 21 Dec 2016


  15. UPTHEHOOPS
    DECEMBER 22, 2016 at 07:27

    Maybe Grant Russell could do a piece on why Warburton is supposedly ideal for the England U21s given his track record for developing young players.

    You know players of the likes of Miller, Barton, Hill, Senderos, Kranjcar, Gilks?

    Meanwhile many of his young signings at Ibrox seem to be constantly injured in one from or another and some, like Crooks, are apparently seeking a loan deal to get some game time.

    Frankly the FA would be better going for someone like Ian Cathro 🙂


  16. Short and sweet at Parliament House this morning (switched from the High Court) as the preliminary hearing for Craig Whyte was continued until 10 February, at the High Court in Edinburgh.

    Reporting restrictions were continued I’m afraid.


  18. The Scottish Parliament are today discussion the issue of some (as yet unnamed) clubs who are not paying their players the national minimum wage.
    My first thought was, what is there to discuss or debate? It’s the law so just enforce the law! Why is there a debate about it? 
    But then that got me thinking, well just exactly how do you work out how many hours per week a footballer “works” ? Is it game time or game time plus hours spent training? What about overnight stays in hotels? Or what about the fact that everything you do is done under the banner of “professional footballer” so if you tweet the wrong thing or give the wrong opinion you could be fined by your club… You could argue that football is a 24/7 contract.
    So how exactly is a footballers “minimum wage” actually calculated in the first place? How many hours do footballers work?


  19. easyJamboDecember 22, 2016 at 10:59
    ‘….I see that the BBC is reporting that Whyte has pleaded not guilty to the two charges he faces…’
    _______
    I can feel a wee email to the Lord President coming on,perhaps via my MSP, seeking a precise statement on the rules about ‘reporting’ restrictions in these modern times.
    I’m all for protecting the right to a fair trial for anybody, but the straight reporting of simple facts like whether a charged person makes a plea, or the projected date of a hearing or trial ,has no bearing on any matter of opinion or speculation that could be prejudicial. In my opinion.


  20. Re; the Ibrox roof speculation, I contacted the Celtic supporters’ liaison officer today to express my concerns:
     
    Dear Mr Taylor,
     My nephew has a ticket for the TRFC v Celtic match on 31st December (Broomloan Stand).
     I am hearing very disturbing reports concerning the state of the roof at Ibrox.  In view of the expected weather this weekend and the reluctance of the TRFC board to disclose any information regarding the safety of all spectators, can you tell me if Celtic F.C. has sought and obtained satisfactory assurances from the Ibrox club regarding the safety of our supporters in the Broomloan Stand?  I am aware that the Safety Advisory Group issued a safety certificate some time ago, but recent events have rendered that piece of paper worthless.  I will expect Celtic F.C. to rely on an up to date independent report from a qualified engineer.  Has such a recent inspection taken place?
    Yours sincerely,
    Billy Boyce
     
    Mr Taylor was kind enough to send me this prompt reply:
     
    Good Afternoon Billy Boyce
    Thanks for your email, as you would expect as a Club we do not deal in or react to rumours.
    As things stand we have no reason to believe the match on December 31 will not go ahead as planned.  Like every SPFL match, it will be subject to the host Stadium having all the necessary safety certification and completed risk assessments, we have no reason to believe these will not be in place.  Please be assured that there will be no complacency from Celtic when it comes to the safety of our fans and staff.
     I hope this helps
     JP

    So, everything’s tickety-boo down Edmiston Drive way.


  21. Can’t see why Grant Russell was ‘touting for business’ earlier on Twitter.

    He seems to have found his own story in the tweet below

    Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 4h4 hours ago
    Andrew McKinlay of @ScottishFA just told parliament committee they can’t feasibly check if terms of player contracts are illegal.

    That is surely enough to revisit the Bryson interpretation, the issue of EBTS, the role of Campbell Ogilvie and why the SFA, having already been embarrassed by the whole affair re registrations, do not appear to have made any progress in ensuring all contracts are legal and above board.

    Especially when they seem to have plenty staff resource available to scrutinize diddy team’s registrations and team lines in fine detail so they can hand out disproportionate punishment for genuine administrative errors.


  22. James Doleman ‏@jamesdoleman 10m10 minutes ago
    The trial of Craig Whyte has been scheduled for April before judge Lady Stacey at the High Court in Glasgow.


  23. wottpi December 22, 2016 at 15:32
    =====================
    You can watch the video feed from today’s parliamentary committee meeting here:
    http://www.scottishparliament.tv/Archive/Index/d5101a6c-1096-4aff-8b6c-3e5b952d2225?Area=&categoryId=7d46ed09-a9b6-4b26-b5e8-f896986e4249&parentCategoryClicked=False&pageNumber=0&orderByField=PlayCount&queryOrder=ASC

    Fraser Wishart is on the first panel (from the start of the feed) and Neil Doncaster on the second (starting at 1hr 2m 10s in)


  24. The twitter feed from Hollyrood is fascinating. Doncaster making an ass of himself again. If I have understood correctly the purpose of the £1 contracts for junior pros are to protect the club and the player. Seemingly from avaricious English clubs who can just take a punt. Obviously Scottish clubs never do that…


  25. easyJamboDecember 22, 2016 at 15:43
    ______________________________________

    Thanks for that. Riveting stuff and well, well worth a watch. Body language especially McKinlay and shoite from Doncaster.


  26. WOTTPIDECEMBER 22, 2016 at 15:32
    Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant 4h4 hours agoAndrew McKinlay of @ScottishFA just told parliament committee they can’t feasibly check if terms of player contracts are illegal.

    So the SFA Director of Football Governance and Regulation has admitted he is unable to…well…ermm, actually Govern and Regulate.
    What a disgraceful state of affairs; but let me think a moment, is that really the case?

    This must mean that a club, any club (or company), with possibly a devious owner could conceivably subvert the player registration system by, say, not disclosing the full contract details of players’ salaries to the SFA thus covertly seeking to gain a financial advantage over other clubs (or companies) albeit not a playing advantage (even though the financial advantage means that such a club (or company) would almost certainly be able to afford a higher standard of player leading to, possibly, the said club (or company) actually winning more titles/trophies).

    Who’da thunk that eh?


  27. CrownStBhoyDecember 22, 2016 at 18:31
    ________________________________________________
    Exactly!!! He was and is pathetic.11


  28. JEAN7BRODIEDECEMBER 22, 2016 at 17:49 
    easyJamboDecember 22, 2016 at 15:43______________________________________
    Thanks for that. Riveting stuff and well, well worth a watch. Body language especially McKinlay and shoite from Doncaster
    ———————————————————————-
       I think it would be fair to say on balance, that on a balancy balancing thing……. Doncaster got rag-dolled. Good at making crap statements, but not so clever when asked to justify them. 
        On balance a wee lesson for the SMSM is my balanced view. 


  29. I can’t find a way to word how disturbing it is to constantly hear people on here express concern about the safety of visiting fans at Ibrox because of alleged issues with the safety of the roof.

    There are around 40,000 Rangers fans who visit this stadium every week. If the roof was about to fall in this would be a potentially catastrophic event, potentially causing huge loss of life. Yet people only seem to be primarily concerned that Celtic or other fans may be visiting and may be put in harms way. May I suggest that if people are so genuinely concerned they should be writing to Rangers IMMEDIATELY rather than waiting until their own fans are there. Or are our lives considered less valuable? 


  30. RYANGOSLINGDECEMBER 23, 2016 at 01:44

    ==============================

    Personally I wouldn’t want any group of fans to suffer injury within a stadium. Football rivalry means nothing where peoples lives are concerned. 

    As for the Ibrox roof issue itself, Rangers could easily clear this matter up. I don’t think any organisation would want online bloggers claiming they play fast and loose with matters of safety.  I believe many organisations would have threatened legal action by now if such claims were simply malicious. 


  31. RyanGoslingDecember 23, 2016 at 01:44
    As I said previously on this, Club 1872 are the ones who should be asking questions if Rangers fans have concerns. As a visiting fan, Billy Boyce  is entitled to seek assurance that his safety is guaranteed and has shown that a direct approach elicits a direct answer from his club. Too many other comments appear to be hoping that something’s wrong – albeit fed by King’s grandstanding/idiocy/somewhat dodgy history. 


  32. RYANGOSLING
    DECEMBER 23, 2016 at 01:44
    I said my final piece re the stands the other week but will chip in to say I totally agree with you in that of course the lives of all fans are of equal worth, I do not believe there is as serious a problem as some are making out and have criticized for those who believe they have damning information from doing no more than whispering a warning.

    The roofs, the water stealing story and occasional nonsense like JJ’s recent poorly researched rant re bigoted bus driver Allan Woods are making us look no better than the state aid land deal guys.

    We are always better as a blogging and posting community when we stick to the facts and debate in a sensible informed manner as opposed to getting overly bogged down in ‘back of the taxi’ type stories and agendas.

    As Blu (above) and I discussed earlier the wider issue for T’Rangers fans (beyond being given an assurance with regard to their safety by nipping the matter in the bud) is that DCK has publicly admitted a major overhaul is required of three roofs. Therefore, what is required? What is the cost? Where is the money to come from and what other budgets will be cut /restricted? When and how are the works going to take place? How does this affect the overall finances of the club being the board and ‘investors’ are already up to their eyes in soft loans and the intended share issue is currently up the spout?


  33. This was Dave King’s official comment with regards the state of the stadium and the roof in particular. Not a sound bite or an off the cuff comment given to the press. His official statement directly to the support on the club’s website.

    https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/dave-king-response-4/

    “The stadium itself requires significant maintenance work, much of which will go unseen, but will include a major overhaul of the roofs of the Broomloan, Copland and Sandy Jardine stands.”

    I have no idea where the original information that the roof was in imminent danger of collapse came from (though I have seen it reported in various places) however I would be absolutely stunned if it were true, given that games are still being played there. My guess is that it is a story which has grown in the telling. However if there is any truth in the story then those who are aware of it should be ashamed of themselves for putting people’s lives in danger.

    With regard coming out and denying the story, that simply sets a precedent. The next time any rumour does the rounds it will gain weight simply because a club refuses to deny it is true. 


  34. bluDecember 23, 2016 at 08:46
    ‘…Too many other comments appear to be hoping that something’s wrong – albeit fed by King’s grandstanding/idiocy/somewhat dodgy history. ‘
    ____________
    That’s a not bad assessment, blu.
    ‘A favourite has no friends’. We all learned that in primary school.
    The most favoured club in Scottish History was the cheating club of SDM.
    Allegations that the SFA so favoured that club that they were prepared to lie to UEFA to help save it are very strong.
    So strong, in fact, that a club that lost millions by that lie ,but for reasons of its own wishes those allegations would ‘go away’ and would dearly love to able to disprove them , have not in three years been able to disprove them.
    Not only are there allegations that the RFC of SDM was ‘favoured’, but there is incontrovertible evidence that the Football Authorities so favoured CG’s new creation that it created the myth that RFC did not die in Liquidation, but was and is alive, sporting records intact, in a 4-year-old creation!
    Given that level or degree of utterly unprincipled (allegedly) lying on behalf of two lying clubs,it is not to be wondered at that those of us who do still believe in sporting integrity and business integrity, and know that there are bad guys who tell lies and cheat, are only too ready to nail the bad guys when opportunity presents.
    It is beyond doubt, and evidenced by the chairman of RIFC , that Ibrox stadium was neglected over a good many years. ( Well, when I say’ beyond doubt’ we have to remember that that chairman has been said to have uttered some porkies). But we do know that some remedial work had to be carried out immediately before the Commonwealth Games.
    And now we have various stories ( some clearly very much tongue-in-cheek)about scaffolding and Ministerial ‘watching briefs’ and such like.
    And what we do most vividly remember, is that previous boards of clubs behaved irresponsibly and their negligence and indifference resulted in fatalities.
    And we also remember that white-washing by the legal and sporting authorities of ‘favoured clubs’ has not been unknown.
    And the acceptance without question of that white-washing by the SMSM is a matter of record.
    No one actually wishes that people will be injured or worse, just to ‘prove’ a point.
    But, as I mentioned in a previous post, some positive statement from Ibrox would allow us either to shut up, knowing that all was well…… or have it on the record at any any fatal accident accident enquiry, that we were lied to.
    The TRFC PR guys , it seems to me, are fighting shy of making any definitive pronouncement.
    I suspect that’s because they do not want to hang themselves.
    But perhaps that’s only me.


  35. Not sticking up for the board at Ibrox but if costly repairs are needed on 3 stands and they can’t afford it, what are they to do?  Relocate to Hampden?  Supposing they can’t afford that either?  They seem to be in a bad place. An impossible one even. Don’t know what the answer is but the safety of all fans and staff is paramount.


  36. JOHN CLARKDECEMBER 23, 2016 at 13:34

    =============================

    I’ve seen the roof story compared to the alleged water bill story on here but there are clear differences in my view. The water bill story started as an internet rumour, grew arms and legs, but was easily shown up as not credible, including by some on here. The roof story on the other hand is generally accepted as having some substance (it’s been mentioned by Dave King as pointed out on here), with just the true scale of the immediate problem to be established, if indeed there is an immediate problem. 

    There is no way anyone can accuse the Rangers board of taking safety risks without proof. I doubt very much they would be willing to put the safety of their own and other fans at risk.

    On a wider note though it’s worth remembering that investigations into various disasters over the years established negligence of safety issues either as a root, or contributing cause. This includes disasters at UK football grounds, with Ibrox among them. 


  37. RyanGosling makes a fair point. The issue with the ibrox roofs is pretty straightforward. Either they are safe or they are not safe.
    In regards to Phil & John James (they’ve been the two bloggers who claim to have knowledge on this matter) either they have evidence that the roofs are unsafe or they don’t.
    If they don’t have evidence then they are basically engaging in scaremongering in order to drum up interest in their blogs. If they do have evidence then the time for cryptic ‘nod and a wink’ articles is long past and they should be contacting the relevant authorities with the information. They should also be contacting the relevant rangers supporters bodies with this info. If they know something is wrong then I fail to see how they can sleep at night with that knowledge.
    As Ryan points out there will be 50,000 or so fans there tomorrow and very high winds are predicted for this evening and the wee hours of tomorrow so the time for rumour and innuendo has long since past.


  38. Charlie_KellyDecember 23, 2016 at 14:22

    RyanGosling makes a fair point. The issue with the ibrox roofs is pretty straightforward. Either they are safe or they are not safe…
    __________________

    I think, Charlie, that there’s another angle to the story. They might be ‘safe’ at the moment, but will whatever measures are carried out make them safe for some time to come? I suspect that there is no immediate danger to life and limb, but that the work that is to be carried out is only a temporary one, and that much more expensive work is required, preferably done now, but certainly unavoidable within the near future.

    The silence from the board suggests to me that there is much more serious work to be carried out than they would like the support to be aware of. Very expensive work that will eat into any ‘war chest’, real or imaginary, that might come their way, with any announcement likely to damped the enthusiasm of the bears when the call goes out for ticket sales or share issues.

    On the ‘defence’ of not responding to rumours, well why not respond to rumours? If they are unfounded there could be no problem in responding, but, why wait until the rumours abound before making an announcement on something that can’t remain a secret anyway? Why not give details of any roof repairs, ahead of the inevitable rumours, unless, as I previously suggested, there is something you don’t want in the public domain? Carrying out such repairs, however serious or just a matter of maintenance, would surely be good PR for any club, and at an organisation that continuously looks to demean previous boards, manna from heaven! That is, unless a full and honest announcement might cause a problem in itself!

    As to the anticipated arrival of nets on the roofs, that many question the effectiveness of for preventing debris falling on heads. What if they are not intended to catch debris but to stop metal sheeting from lifting and flying off – from the top of the roofs? I read a post elsewhere that suggested this would be what they were for, a well written and seemingly knowledgeable post it was too. It will be interesting to see whether or not the nets (if they appear) cover the top of the roofs, only hang under the roofs, or wrap around both top and bottom.


  39. BLUDECEMBER 23, 2016 at 08:46       16 Votes 
    RyanGoslingDecember 23, 2016 at 01:44As I said previously on this, Club 1872 are the ones who should be asking questions if Rangers fans have concerns. As a visiting fan, Billy Boyce  is entitled to seek assurance that his safety is guaranteed and has shown that a direct approach elicits a direct answer from his club.
    ————————-
    Was there not an  issue constitution from someone at ibrox that stated We will undertake to ensure that there is total transparency in all club affairs.
    All club 1872 have to do is say or ask, There are  rumours going around that there are safety issues with the roofs (we know that Mr king has stated )“The stadium itself requires significant maintenance work, much of which will go unseen, but will include a major overhaul of the roofs of the Broomloan, Copland and Sandy Jardine stands.”
    But what club 1872 would like to know, so it can tell the fans “is there a safety issue with the roofs”we would like to put these rumours to bed


  40. To late to edit.. if club 1872 don’t get a reply then even they know something is wrong and they will tell the ibrox fans.I believe a burden lies on club 1872’s shoulders to ask these questionsthus  preventing and causing huge loss of life. 


  41. I think the fact that James Blair sits on the board of Club 1872 tells you all you really need to know about it.

    He is also on the board of Rangers International Football Club PLC and The Rangers FC Ltd.

    A truly independent fans group and community interest company would want to be just that, independent of the club. I don’t see how having a board member of the PLC and the subsidiary helps achieve that.

    I genuinely think it is just a vehicle to collect money from the support to pass to the club, had resolution 11 passed it would already be happening via share sales. They must have a 7 figure sum sitting in a bank account just now just waiting to give it to the club. 


  42. On the roof situation and further to Billy Boyce’s reply from Celtic, the Celtic Quick News site has had this response to the question they put to the club.

    “The Club are naturally aware of the rumours going round regarding the match and the condition of the roof at Broomloan Stand.
    “The issue being that as a Club we cannot deal or act on rumour, the match like every other played in the SPFL will be subject to a number of safety and security checks with a variety of risk assessments being completed. 
    “At this point we are not aware of anything which will prevent the match going ahead as planned.
    “The Club take the safety of our fans and staff very seriously and should there be any suggestion that this may be compromised a decision would be taken at that time.”

    Have any other groups, or individual supporters of other clubs made similar inquiries and if so what response did they get from their own club. 


  43. I’m a bit relieved to hear that response from Celtic.  For everyone.


  44. HomunculusDecember 23, 2016 at 20:51
    ———
    We might very well accept that  ‘..“The Club take the safety of our fans and staff very seriously and should there be any suggestion that this may be compromised a decision would be taken at that time.”

    The issue is that it has been suggested that safety may be compromised.: and no-one who can be presumed to be in a position to declare definitively that it will not be compromised has said as much!

    The Celtic plc’s ‘assurance’ is therefore as worthless and meaningless  as were the their false and cynical utterances aimed at kicking the Res 12 issue into touch. 

    If they could not from their definite knowledge assure us that Ibrox is safe , they would have done better to stay schtum.

    As it is, their statement sounds as no more than a sales pitch to allay fears and get mugs to put their bums on seats, to help the distressed TRFC:

    In pretty much the same way as they cheerfully accepted being done out millions by RFC(IL) and the SFA rather than simply seek truth.


  45. JOHN CLARK
    DECEMBER 24, 2016 at 04:36  
    HomunculusDecember 23, 2016 at 20:51————————————————-
    If they could not from their definite knowledge assure us that Ibrox is safe , they would have done better to stay schtum.

    ==========================

    They were asked a reasonable question and answered it in a reasonable way. If you think simply refusing to answer the question would have been a better option fair enough.

    “As it is, their statement sounds as no more than a sales pitch to allay fears and get mugs to put their bums on seats, to help the distressed TRFC”.

    Again, I disagree. I think it was a response to a question asked, not a sales pitch (they don’t get the money from ticket sales) or an attempt to help another club (why would that be bad anyway).

    Can I make a suggestion. If any football supporter, of any club, including Rangers, thinks Ibrox stadium is currently unsafe then don’t go there. Don’t risk your safety in order to watch a game of football. I’ll extend that to any venue in relation to any event, if you think it’s not safe then don’t go. 


  46. Jimbo
    Never had any fears about safety at Ibrox being a cause for concern, but following JP’s statement (which looks like the small print on a Bungee Jumping contract), doubts are creeping in.
    Very equivocal. Subtext: if anything goes wrong it’s nothing to do with us.

    I know that it is a pain to have to respond to mischief makers, but on this occasion, something along the lines of
    “we’ve been in touch with Rangers and we are satisfied that there are no issues with regard to H&S”
    would have been more appropriate.


  47. I’d be interested to know from any ICT fans, what statement have their club made with regards fans’ safety today.

    Have they contacted Rangers and can confirm fans safety is not an issue.


  48. HomunculusDecember 24, 2016 at 10:56 I’d be interested to know from any ICT fans, what statement have their club made with regards fans’ safety today.
    Have they contacted Rangers and can confirm fans safety is not an issue.
    ************************************

    ICT played at home today

    Merry Christmas to All at SFM


  49. HomunculusDecember 24, 2016 at 10:02
    ‘..I think it was a response to a question asked, not a sales pitch (they don’t get the money from ticket sales) or an attempt to help another club (why would that be bad anyway).’
    __________
    As is, I think, well enough known to folk who have been reading the blog for any length of time since RTC first woke us up to the really dirty deeds of SDM, and the subsequent dirty deeds of the SFA, I resisted any notion that Celtic plc should make a present of its life in Scottish football by being some kind of white knight leading the charge for Truth.
    The dirty deeds were an attack on every club in football as a whole. Not just   ‘professional’ football, but every game of kick-about. Because they destroyed the very concept of the game as a sporting contest governed by the fair application of agreed rules.
    And it was no more the task of Celtic to challenge those dirty deeds, and expose them, than it was of any amateur club, or women’s club, or any club,however remotely  connected to the game; or of any football supporter.
    Little did I anticipate that the dirty deeds of SDM would involve ( allegedly) really, really dirty deeds by the SFA.
    I can say I was present at the AGM in 2013 when Res 12 was first moved.
    I did not then have a scooby about what it meant. Like most of  us, probably, the focus for me was on the dirty deed of the 5-Way agreement, and the massive media attempt to get us to believe that RFC was not liquidated,but had simply changed owners and blah feckin blah.
    Just about a year ago, I got clued up on the signifance of Res 12.
    I was convinced that there are prima facie strong  grounds on which charges can be made against the SFA and the old RFC (IL) of collusion to cheat in order to obtain a UEFA Competition licence for a financially desperate SDM’s RFC.
    Three years on, and the Celtic Board have not been able to undermine the facts that give rise to the grounds of accusation,much as they would dearly love to.
    And yet, they refuse even to challenge and seek an explanation that might show the charges against the SFA to be baseless. Instead, meekly and humbly they accept and write off  a loss of several millions of pounds to their shareholders.
    So you will pardon me if I now express a degree of cynicism about Celtic’s attitude to Truth and sporting integrity.
    They have been willing  retrospectively to help ‘Rangers’ to get the undeserved opportunity of many millions of pounds with the (blown by Maribor) chance of millions more, and to let the SFA off the hook unchallenged.
    And now, currently, they are , by an ill-advised and uninformed ‘all is well at Ibrox Stadium’ statement, helping the essentially  false and cheating entity known as TRFC  to a full house-in the awareness that there may very well be structural problems that might , might, pose a threat to safety.
    By all means, let clubs help each other.
    But let’s no tallow a now dead club and the SFA escape the condemnation for cheating UEFA that the facts appear to warrant.
    And let us not help a present cheating club ( trading in effect under false colours and claiming an identiy in sport which is not in fact theirs) which is not even prepared to issue its own statement about how safe or otherwise the fabric of Ibrox stadium actually is!


  50. COATBRIDGELOYALTYCAD
    DECEMBER 24, 2016 at 15:48

    According to the SPFL website they were playing Rangers at Ibrox Stadium.


  51. While I was writing my previous post, my son and daughter-in-law were fishing up the weans presents from Santa from the garage-four wee girls, oldest just turned 7, off to bed like a shot at 7’00 pm when reminded that Santa can’t come into a house where children are awake.
    Mrs C and I are enraptured by the first experience of Christmas ‘live’ with them.
    It is now, I note, about 2 o’clock a.m on Christmas Day here in Queensland.We can’t wait to hear the excited voices in about 4 and a half hours’ time.
    A mellow glow (quite, quite unrelated to the small refreshment and a couple of Fat Yaks consumed by me to help ease the parental stress) has come over me.
    I raise my very small glass of Johnny Walker Red [special offer: A$72 for 2x 70cl bottles! At 1.67 dollars to the pound ( as it was when we changed our money at end of November), that makes it about £40 quid! There’s none of yer ASDA, Sainsbury’s, Morrison’s, £15 per LITRE stuff to be got here! ] to all of the folk who , by posting on this blog from honestly held and civilly expressed ( even if exasperated) opinions  have made it a source of information ( or a pointer to sources of information) and a spur to independent research.
    The message of Christmas is of course ‘Peace’.
    But it is a prerequiste of peace that there should be goodwill- and truth. 
    It is not a ‘punishment’ if bad guys have no inner peace. It is a consequence of their lack of ‘goodwill’.
    On which basis, let me wish anyone reading this every good thing .
    And let me say thanks for the sheer entertainment and enjoyment I have gained from the ideas and opinions and sense of belonging to a pub discussion group that rambles enjoyably all over the place while remaining focussed on the deep and suppurating sore in the body of Scottish football.
    And, if I may, let me record my thanks to BP , whom of course I have met, and them others wot run the blog whom I have not met. I think their efforts have helped us all to stay clear of the worst excesses of mindless nonsense and ungentlemanly conduct, without denying us the opportunity to express ourselves with sincerity.
    Mind you, I have from time to time run foul of the mods.
    Anyway, happy Christmas to one and all.


  53. Will have to add Status Quo guitarist Rick Parfitt to Blog list.
    Damm you 2016


  54. JOHN CLARKDECEMBER 24, 2016 at 16:53

    ==============================

    17:45hrs here on the wet and very windswept west coast of Scotland. Not quite the exotic setting of Australia in December but it is home and will have to do. My chores are all done and we are all set for tomorrow. I’m about to avail myself to my local hostelry now for a couple of pints and probably a wee Whyte and MacKay or two as well. 

    Here’s to another year of chasing the truth. At least we will get closure on the big tax case in 2017, no matter how it it is decided. 

    Merry Christmas and a happy and peaceful 2017 to all on SFM.


  55. Homunculus
    I apologise, you are 100% correct it was a home game for the new club.


  56. Have a Happy and Peaceful Christmas to all of you on here.


  57. Sorry to hear about Rick Parfitt.  RIP.  I believe he lived life to the full. 02 Heard the Quo twice, live, in the old appolo. (sp)  during the 70s   Brilliant.

    Main point,

    Merry Christmas to everyone on here.


  58. Can I wish you all , wherever you may be, a happy and peaceful time over the festive period and many thanks to SFM and all the mods for giving us this wonderful site.


  59. A Happy, Peaceful and Corruption-free Christmas to you all.

    Tris, like JC is halfway around the world right now without a computer, but he asked me to pass on his felicitations.
    ??????


  60. Merry Christmas to everyone, wherever you may be and whatever team you support.

    My thanks also to the mods for the great job they do in keeping this site honest and bile free.


  61. MERRY CHRISTMAS  to all on here have a good one and eat yer sprouts 04


  64. After today’s hectic schedule i sat down to have a wee read of a book i was given as a gift.Some on this day facts and figures.I never knew there use to be a full set of top-flight games played on Christmas day.How did they fit it all in?
    Can you imagine that today. Right hen you get the Turkey on i’m away to the game06


  65. Cluster One December 24, 2016 at 17:30 
    Will have to add Status Quo guitarist Rick Parfitt to Blog list. Damm you 2016
    =========================
    You can now add George Michael (53) to that list.
    Unbelievable!


  66. Just had a typical lovely Christmas Day with friends and family.  I’m so lucky.  But it will be football time again soon.  08  I know the mods. on here prefer off the pitch stuff but I love on the pitch Celtic.  Ha Ha.


  67. Boxing day 2016 is now over, here in Birkdale, Queensland,as I write
    The  passage of time does not, never can , expunge the Big Lie,which was trumpeted abroad most forcefully by Neil Doncaster in this quote:
    “In December, 2014, SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster insisted Rangers are the same club which existed before liquidation”
    Let us remind ourselves: which football club was liquidated and lost its ‘share’ in the SPL, and its ‘share’ in the SFA? Why, none other than the Rangers Football Club of 18-oatcake.
    Which club was being represented by D&P in the 5-way agreement, to which the then newly created SevcoScotland/TRFC was at the same time a quite separate legal signatory? Why, none other than the liquidated-ceased-football-operations Rangers Football club of 18-oatcake.
    What, in your opinion, is the Doncaster statement quoted above evidence of?
    a) that the man is  raving lunatic who believes that two quite separate legal entities one of which ceased to be a football club , the other of which is a football club founded in 2012, are actually one and the same
    or
    b) that the man is a cowardly, deceitful compromiser of the Truth who, in other circumstances and other countries might find himself described in Court as being very glib and less than honest
    What are people thinking of, that they were and are ready to allow such blatant, arrant nonsense to be listened to and propagated,even by the BBC?
    Who will rid us of  the humbug and deceit of the, quite frankly ,disgustingly hypocritical men of ill-will who have foisted on us their poisonous doctrine that Lies are Truth, and that financial gain justifies the destruction of Sporting ethics and honour?
    How can these very low-lives live with themselves in any peace of mind, each of them knowing that the other is a liar and a cheat? And therefore always having to operate in an atmosphere of mutual distrust and uncertainty about when precisely  the “liars’ pact” will be broken.
    As it surely will, to their dishonour if still alive when that day comes, or to the perpetual spitting on their graves if their wretched lives are cut short before that certain-to-come day.
    I repeat, how can they live with themselves?
    Could you? Could any decent person in some position of trust?
    No.
    Any decent person would try to salvage some personal honour and dignity by getting shut of the lying,acknowledging the simple truth and simple facts.
    I hope that will happen, sooner rather than later.
    For their sake, and the sake of sporting integrity.


  68. Two things this boxing day that has made me shake my head for very different reasons,
    The first one is the Daily Records best 5 SPFLgames so far this season, guess what 5-1 game did not make the top 5 

    The second one was this, it was pulled by it is cached,
    *****  ADULT ONLY WARNING*****
    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZfIUIhGBOnkJ:https://johnjamessite.com/2016/12/26/the-cardigan-of-infallibility/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

    the above link is not for the easy offended when i think that the blogger that wrote this reprimanded me for saying that Celtic had humped THE Rangers 5-1, he told me he was offended by the word humped.


  69. By way of light relief, can I say that on Boxing day here in Queensland we spent the afternoon in the pool.
    Not that the ambient temperature was anything much above 25 or something, with some quite heavy showers ( ‘quick, children, out of the pool. We’re going to get wet with rain!).
    And not that it is my son’s pool. Sadly, it belongs to one of the family friends who, going away on holiday, gave the house keys to my d-in-law with full permission to use the pool as and when, and feed the cat!
    Anyway, imagine my shock and horror when  I (, as you will readily testify, a man of few words) overheard my newly 7-year-old granddaughter say to her 5-year-old sister ” you’re just like granddad-chatter chatter chatter”
    What? Me? talkative?
    Wonder what gave her that idea!
    And I puzzle a little at the hilarity with which Mrc C and the others greeted my recounting of this episode.
    Am I being told something, d’ye think?


  70. Did anyone else see the video of a Rangers Director on Twitter who was asked to give a Christmas message to the supporters. His answer was “We are the people. Bring on the Celtic”. Does anyone believe the media would remain silent on such classless behaviour from a Director of another club, as they have done on this occasion?


  71. Coatbridgeloyaltycad- Good grief, the Johnjames boy is not what one would call the Govan Oscar Wilde despite his claims of being satirical- perhaps he should spend some time reading Chesterton to see how things should be done and to keep him away from a keyboard


  72. UPTHEHOOPSDECEMBER 26, 2016 at 16:19       10 Votes 
    Did anyone else see the video of a Rangers Director on Twitter who was asked to give a Christmas message to the supporters
    _____________________________________________________

    didn’t see any of this UTH. Do you have a link?

    cheers


  74. COATBRIDGELOYALTYCAD
    DECEMBER 26, 2016 at 15:49
    ====================================

    I read that when it was first posted and couldn’t believe that someone thought it was appropriate in any way shape or form.

    Perhaps it’s just my religious side saying this, and I make no apology for that, to think it was appropriate to post on Christmas day simply beggars belief.

    Given the fact that it is clear he has been using sock-puppets for quite some time, telling himself how great he is, and his performance at the blogging awards I genuinely think the bloke has issues. He is not the ground breaking satirist he seems to think he is. He produces badly written puerile nonsense, interspersed with blatant plagiarism.

    I know he reads this, I fully expect the customary ludicrous threats. Which is a bit rich coming from someone currently bemoaning other people threatening him on the internet.  


  75. Yes Homonculus, it is your religious bias on show.
    Whether a person decides to post a blog on Christmas Day is entirely up to them.
    However if JJ is in Oz, as he claims, the he may well have posted Boxing Day Melbourne time but still Christmas Day in your time zone.
    By all means critisise the content, tone of his blogs but criticing the date of his blog is ridiculous.
    My understanding was this is football site, not a religious site.

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