The Dismal Art of Whataboutery

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The new club – old club thing is getting a …

Comment on The Dismal Art of Whataboutery by TSFM.

The new club – old club thing is getting a bit circular in terms of argument. I doubt very much that anyone is going to bring anything new to the table save for yet another “if ma granny died and ma granda re-married is she ma granny?” routine.

It is an utterly pointless exercise in anything other than venting frustration which by definition is not the type of discussion we want on here. Given the fact that by and large the consensus on here is that they are a new club, and the stark situation that no Rangers fan will be convinced anyway, what is the point of constantly regurgitating it again and again?

If we just agree to disagree then people can call them whatever they want without making it the topic of the blog. For the record, Rangers as they exist in the 3rd division are indisputably a new club, but apparently Rangers fans don’t agree, and it doesn’t point to any character defects if they take that stance.

Nobody wins here. Rangers fans will be stuck with the new Club jibe forever, and those who want something officially endorsing that view posted on the town hall wall will be waiting forever. Get over it please.

The name thing is inconsequential compared to what went on in the summer, and doesn’t amount to a hill of beans compared to the mountain of corruption that rose out of the sea of debt when Rangers went on the skids.

We have had an award winning journalist and broadcaster spend a lot of time trying to drive the debate forward here, and by and large his posts – and those of others – are ignored by many who don’t know, or are not sufficiently interested in finding out which battles can be won and those which cannot.

Can we please cut out the hot air and get back to real discussion?

Apologies for the rant, but sometimes going through these posts I feel like I’m trudging through a river of molasses.

TSFM Also Commented

The Dismal Art of Whataboutery
TSFM says:

Sunday, December 23, 2012 at 01:52(Edit)

The name thing is inconsequential compared to what went on in the summer, and doesn’t amount to a hill of beans compared to the mountain of corruption that rose out of the sea of debt when Rangers went on the skids.
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It’s very very late and I am very very tired. But I claim mixed metaphor of the year award for this πŸ™‚


The Dismal Art of Whataboutery
Whullie asked me to show his reply from Army HQ regarding the Remembrance Day thingy at Ibrox.
Suitably redacted of course

http://wp.me/a2Dvlo-9P


The Dismal Art of Whataboutery
I’m happy to see some people challenging the consensus here because it is important that we examine our own views from time to time.
In response to the charges that the Scottish Football Monitor is not living up to its name by concentrating – some say obsessing – on Rangers, there are three points;

1. Rangers are still a part of Scottish football, and in fact their unique membership status in the SFA highlights the shortcomings of the Scottish football authorities.

2. Love them or loathe them, Rangers old and new, attract interest across the spectrum of Scottish football opinion, and in fact ANY senior club going through the crisis which Rangers are enduring would be fair game for discussion.

3. Although Rangers will be of some interest to most, the heightened attention on their activities focuses almost exclusively not on Rangers themselves, but on their perceived wrongdoing in tax and football matters.

People are correct to question the motives of those who contribute to TSFM, and painful though it
can be, we have to admit that sometimes we do not live up to the ideal we set ourselves.

However it is reasonable that we ask the same of those who think that there is a sinister anti-Rangers, quasi-religious conspiracy afoot. For if there is, then we would have to believe that there is not a genuinely held consensus view amongst football fans that Oldco did a grave disservice to Scottish football, to many clubs in the leagues and not least to Rangers fans themselves.


Recent Comments by TSFM

Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?
bogsdollox says:

March 7, 2014 at 1:08 pm

Alan Price says:
March 7, 2014 at 12:54 pm

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Rangers were not the lender. The Sub-Trusts, into which Rangers made a contribution via an EBT, are the β€œlender”. Rangers gave the money away and there can be no suggestion of repayment to them.
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Yes, but had the loans been repaid by the lendees, Rangers would have been able to apply for one themselves had they set up a sub-trust in their favour. Therefore the money would have been available to the club in times of hardship.

Or perhaps I am missing something here?


Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?
Auldheid
Res 12 is as you say important, but I am convinced that Celtic have no desire whatsoever to pursue its aims.
We could have a discussion about the possible reasons, but ultimately if DD is disinclined to seek a proper answer to these questions, then the SFA will dodge the bullet.
Thus my question to Campbellsmoney: do individual (or groups of) shareholders have locus to seek legal redress here?
Going at it in that fashion may even force Celtic and other clubs for that matter to come on board.


Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?
Campbellsmoney

Is there anyone outside of the clubs who may have locus to challenge LNS? Is there any basis for a challenge?

β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”β€”
I don’t know is the answer, but I doubt it. You see its not a question of law really. Its not a proper court – its a made up thing by a private body.
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I meant a challenge in law. For example, is there a framework whereby a shareholder(s) of a club(s) could challenge the outcome?

It does seem rather odd that, if a most people here believe, RFC achieved honours dishonestly and in doing so denied other clubs prize-money and opportunity that those clubs are reluctant to seek redress.

My guess I that the must have something to lose by bringing that up – but what?

Is there a mechanism through which the SFA/SPL could be sued by individual shareholders for loss of earnings caused by a lack of proper regulation by the governing bodies.


Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?
Campbellsmoney

Is there anyone outside of the clubs who may have locus to challenge LNS? Is there any basis for a challenge?


Scottish Football: An Honest Game, Honestly Governed?
Kicker Conspiracy

Double click or tap on the TU and it will change your vote πŸ™‚


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