A Blog by James Forrest for TSFM
I am a socialist, and as a socialist I believe in the fundamental goodness of people. Some people find that hard to believe when they read the stuff I write.
I published my first novel recently, on politics and the corrupting nature of it, and it is a deeply cynical book, a book where no-one has clean hands come the end. What has surprised some of those who’ve read it is that I didn’t focus on the lies and smears of the right, but the hypocrisy and deceit of those who claim to be of the left.
Corruption, you see, doesn’t respect political boundaries or points of view. It’s like rainwater. It finds every crack, and gets in there.
My political beliefs revolve around two apparently paradoxical elements; the belief in the inherent decency of people and the need for a strong, and powerful, state. I believe the second underpins the first, and this brings me into conflict with a lot of people, some on the left and some on the right. Too many people see the state as inherently evil, as something that interferes too much in the lives of ordinary people. As something suffocating.
Yet the state exists to protect us. It exists to provide a safety net. It exists to regulate and to oversee. If the state is made up of bad people, if the gears of society are captured by those with malicious or selfish intent, the results are obvious; war, corruption, chaos.
The vast majority of our problems in the modern age can be neatly summed up in two lines from Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming”, which I used to open my novel. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”
We live in a time when those who are protecting their own interests have assumed such power that they’ve cowed the rest of us. They have become a law unto themselves. They have changed the nature of the game, because they have sapped our will to the extent some barely put up a fight anymore. The weak get weaker, and the strong use their strength to crush the rest even more. It is a vicious struggle, a downward spiral.
Society is held together not only by the endeavour and common interests of its citizens but by a collection of laws. We elect the people who make those laws. They do so in our name, and we can remove that right every four years. That is a powerful thing, and we do not appreciate it enough. The present corruption exists because we allow it to exist.
The people around me continue to puzzle over my uncommon interest in the affairs of a football club on the west of Glasgow. My own club plays in the east end. I tell those who ask that my primary interest in the goings-on at the club calling itself Rangers is no longer about football; how could it be, after all? With promotion this year they are still a full two divisions below us, emasculated, skint, weak and unstable. If we were fortunate enough to draw them in cup competition the match would be over, as a tie, by the halfway point … in the first half.
In footballing terms they are an utter irrelevance.
Rangers is more than a football club to me. They are a symbol. Their unfolding calamity is an on-going outrage. What is happening there, what is being allowed to happen, is an offense to decency. It is a stain on the face of our country.
In short, it is a scandal. It is a scandal without parallel in sport.
Yet it’s not just a sports story either. If it was, I might not be so focussed on it. What is happening at Rangers is a colossal failure of governance. It is a damning indictment against the very people who are supposed to oversee our game. It is a disgraceful abrogation of responsibility from those at the top, those who claim to be “running things.”
If this is not a failure of governance it is a result of corruption at the heart of our national sport. It says they are bought and paid for, and I will say no such thing here.
So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. We’ll say instead that what they are is weak, indecisive, inept and disconnected from reality.
It reminds me of our political class, which has become insular and ignorant about what the public wants, and what it needs. It’s not a wonder parties like UKIP can achieve national vote shares of 25% at local elections. Nigel Farage strikes me as a dog-whistle politician, the kind who knows how to appeal to a select group of voters. He is little different to Charles Green, the man who beguiled Rangers fans into handing over large amounts of money, because he was “standing up for the club.” It is easy to do what he did, easy to do what Farage is doing.
Real leadership requires toughness. Say what you like about the Tories, but they have that in spades. Yeats was right about the worst being full of passionate intensity. Green was. Farage is. Cameron and Osborne personify it in their political outlook.
It is easy to be cowed by blunt force politics, and by “tough talking Yorkshire men” and venomous speeches about “strivers and skivers.” The politics of divide and conquer is the oldest form of politics there is, and it’s no surprise to see it practiced by some of the vested interests in the game here in Scotland. Yet, lest we forget … something significant happened last year. The maligned and the ignored, the weak and the voiceless found something they never realised they had. They discovered that, in a very real sense, the power was in their hands.
Last year, the fans rose up when the governing bodies and the media went all-out to save Rangers from the self-inflicted wounds caused by a decade of cheating, malpractice and ineptitude. I have no problem calling that what it was.
What happened at Rangers seemed incredible, but it was all too predictable, and some of us had been talking about it for years before it hit. The Association seemed caught in the headlights but it would amaze me if they really were as insular and ignorant as they appeared. They must have known how bad the outlook was for Rangers. They just chose to ignore it.
They were aided and abetted by a thoroughly disreputable media, a collection of cowards and compromisers, charlatans and frauds, masquerading as journalists, but who long ago laid aside any claim to be bold investigators and settled for commenting on events as they unfolded. More often than not, with their ill-informed opinions, sometimes due to weaknesses in intellect and others wilfully ignorant, they failed even in that.
Entire newspapers became PR machines for crooks and swindlers. They aided in the scam because they didn’t do their jobs, some because they were lazy, some because they were incompetent and others because they wanted a seat at the table and were willing to sacrifice whatever integrity they once had in exchange for one.
That all of this was embraced by the Rangers fans is amazing to me. They trusted when they should have been asking questions. They closed their eyes, covered their ears and sang their battle tunes at the top of their voices so they wouldn’t have to hear anything they didn’t like. As incredible as I found it then, and still find it now – and now, even more so, when they have already seen the results of it once – I find it pathetic too, and I do feel pity for some of them.
A lot of these people are genuine football fans, and nothing more. They have no interest in the phony narrow nationalism, or the over-blown religion, or the notion of supremacy which manifested itself in a ludicrous statement from McCoist when interviewed recently on Sky.
Some of the Rangers fans look at their team of duds, kids and journeymen, they look at a boardroom of cowards and crooks, they look at a failing manager in his first (and last) job in the game and at a dark future and are not in the least bit impressed by, or interested in, the chest-out arrogance espoused in those ridiculous words “we are the people.” They know full well that their present crisis was made by men like McCoist, and they understand that pretentious posturing is not an act born of strength, but a scrambling around in the gutter, and a symptom of weakness.
They understand their position, and they hate it. And because they care about Rangers, because they value the club, because they cherish those things that made it a great Scottish institution, they want that back. They understand that before the Union Jack waving, Sash singing, poppy wearing, Nazi saluting, Orange element became the public face of their support Rangers meant something else, and that, above all things, is what pains them the most.
People do not hate Rangers. When the country appeared to turn its back last year, they were turning the back on favouritism and the bending of rules. Yet it would be a lie to say that there is not an element of dislike in the gleeful mockery of many rival fans.
But they don’t hate Rangers either. They hate the version of it around which a certain section of the support continues to dance. They hate the version which hates, and so too do many, many, many Rangers supporters, and they definitely deserve better.
David Murray chose not to openly challenge that version. Indeed, he encouraged certain strands of it to flourish and grow, with his “Britishness Days” and his effort to turn the club into the “team that supports the troops.” Other clubs have done as much, if not more, for the British Army than the one that plays out of Ibrox. Other clubs have given more money. Other clubs have lent their support to those on the front lines. They just chose to do it with respect, and with class, and with dignity. They chose to do it in private, understanding that there eventually comes a tipping point between looking after the ends of the soldiers and using them to promote your own.
The army has not battened on to Rangers. Rangers has battened on to them, and although it is unclear when an altruistic motive became darker, what started out as a gesture of solidarity is now used to entrench division and promote a notion of superiority.
Craig Whyte took over from Murray and immediately understood the lure of the “dog whistle.” He knew too that the media would accept whatever he told them, without question, and as he spoke up for “Rangers traditions” he made sure the lunatic fringe was well onside. He met face to face with the hard-core extremists in the support first and made them his praetorian guard. They spoke up for him until the day the club entered administration.
So, whereas Murray pandered to them and Whyte used them to further his own ends, it was only a matter of time before someone suggested to Charles Green that he could use the same tactics to win over the support. He went even further and blatantly promoted and encouraged this mind-set, and stoked the hate and nonsense to frightening new heights. The same people who cheered Whyte to the rafters jumped on board the Big Blue Bus and the results are clear.
Through all of it, the ordinary Rangers fan has seen his club buffered against the rocks, battered, broken, smashed to smithereens and sunk. Now there’s a big hole in the side of the lifeboat, and they are terrified that further tragedies await.
They are right to be concerned. Much of the media is still not telling them what they need to know. The people in charge of their club – the owners who have lied, the former hack who covered up the truth about Whyte and now acts as a mouthpiece for Green, the “club legends” who are content to sup with the devil and take his greasy coin when they should be standing toe-to-toe with the fans – are trying to silence those members of the press who do have facts to present.
How many times now have media outlets been banned from Ibrox for daring to report the truth? The manager who demanded the names of a committee last year defends those inside the walls who are desperate to keep secret the things that are going on. He is either an unprincipled coward, or he is, himself, bought and paid for. The fans suffer for it.
The “inconvenient truth” is still being kept from them, and this denies them any chance to play an active role in their club. Indeed, it is all too possible that they’ve passed a point of no return, and that their club is heading for a new liquidation event and it can no longer be stopped.
In either case, their power has been eroded to the point at which they must feel they have nothing left to do but stand back and watch what happens next.
They are wrong. I am a socialist. I believe in the inherent good of people. I think the ordinary decent Rangers fans are the only people left who can save their club … and the means by which they will do it is as simple as it could be.
They must stand up for “big government.” They must embrace the need for a “strong state.” They must lobby the SFA, and they must trust the SFA and they must get the SFA to follow its own rules and thereby save them from any further harm.
There is a tendency amongst some Celtic fans to see our governing bodies as pro-Rangers. If it is true then those running our game are ruining Scottish football without benefiting the thing they love more. The incalculable harm that has been done to Rangers in the last 20 some months is a direct result of the subservient media and the willingness of the football authorities to be “deaf, dumb and blind.” Those who believe this has actually helped the Ibrox club have not been paying attention in class. It has irrevocably scarred them, and it may yet have played a hand in destroying them once and for all, as a force if not as a club entirely.
For years, the SFA sat and did nothing as a club in their association operated a sectarian signing policy. They did nothing whilst the fans sang sectarian songs. In their failure to act they strengthened those elements of the Rangers support, instead of isolating, alienating and eventually helping to eliminate those who saw that club as a totem pole of division and hate. Their failure over EBT’s, and their lack of scrutiny, led to one of the greatest scandals in the history of sport, and I say that with no equivocation at all. The testimony of their registrations officer in the Lord Nimmo Smith investigation was a disgrace and in years to come it will rank as one of the most disreputable and damaging moments in the association’s history.
The most egregious failures of all were the failures in the so-called “fit and proper person” tests, which allowed first Whyte and then Charles Green to assume controlling positions at Ibrox. They will pass the buck and say the responsibility lies with the club itself, in much the same way as they are content to let the club investigate itself at the present time, but any neutral who looks at this stance knows it is unprincipled and spineless. It’s like letting the defence set the terms at a trial. It is foxes investigating the chicken coop.
It is a blueprint for corruption, and a recipe for disaster.
It is now too late for the SFA to declare Green “unfit”, as it was too late when they finally slapped that title on Craig Whyte. He and his allies own Rangers, and they control its destiny. They can push the club to the wall if they choose, in the final extremity, if that gets them what they want. The time for changing that is past. The damage has already been done. The barbarians are not at the gates. They are inside the walls, and sacking the city.
The SFA will be forced to punish Rangers for the sins of the owners, for the second time in as many years, and whilst it is right that the club face up to that, all the better to send a message to other clubs and other owners, the SFA cannot be allowed to slither off the hook here as though this was none of their doing. Green will skip off into the sunset. Craig Whyte has yet to pay his fine. These people never cared about Scottish football and they don’t care now.
The SFA are supposed to. Our governing body is supposed to govern, for the good of the whole game, and not as a support system for a single club. What they have allowed to happen on their watch is absolutely shameful and if the people responsible were men at all, with any sense of accountability, they would resign en masse.
They can pretend ignorance, but only the truly ignorant would accept that. Craig Whyte was not inside Ibrox a week before RTC and other sites were dismantling his entire business history, with some of the people here doing the work the SFA would not. Whyte himself claims to have made the governing bodies aware of the scale of what was facing the club, and they did nothing at all. Heads should have rolled a year ago.
In October of last year, on this very site, I posted an article in which I wrote:
“Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.
To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.”
There are times when it is fun to be right, but this is not one of them. It is dispiriting and disquieting to have been so on the nose. It scares the Hell out of me, as someone who loves football in this country, to have seen this matter clearly when the people running our game apparently either did not or chose to ignore very real, very obvious, concerns. The Internet Bampots had no special insight or access to information that was denied those at the SFA. We just weren’t prepared to ignore it and pretend that it wasn’t there. There was too much at stake.
I have become convinced that things will never change until the Rangers supporters join us in demanding the full and unabridged truth here. They need to come out from under the bed, and confront their fears. They need to be willing to take the consequences, so that their club can emerge clean from this, and start again, with all this behind them.
And it can all happen with one simple thing. The application of the rules.
The existence of laws comes down to a simple principle; they protect society from those elements within it who are interested only in their own selfish ends. We may cry out at those rules and regulations we see as “restrictive”, but the law was not made to restrict our freedoms but to protect them. Had the SFA years ago acted against Rangers sectarian signing policy, and the songs from the stands, the club would not have mutated to the point where there was no help on hand when they needed it the most. Let’s not kid ourselves about this; Whyte and Green were only able to grab control because the club itself has a dreadful image which put off respectable and responsible buyers. The SFA could have helped change that perception years ago and did nothing.
The SFA could have conducted its own investigation into who Craig Whyte was. They could have asked David Murray for full disclosure when he was running up £80 million of debt, a sum of money that is beyond belief for a single club in a small provincial backwater league. Had they had the guts to do that the club would never have spent itself into oblivion and forced the hand of Lloyds, which led indirectly to their ignominious end.
The SFA could have fully investigated Charles Green and the means by which he took control, instead of rushing through a license. His emergence at the last minute was transparently suspicious and designed to force them into a quick decision, but they did not have to bow to that pressure by making one, without being in possession of the facts, as it is now 100% clear they were not.
Had they asked for every document, had they insisted on legal affidavits and personal securities from investors (and this would have been perfectly legitimate and is common place in other licensing areas) none of this would have come to pass. After Craig Whyte they had a moral responsibility to the rest of the game to get this one right and their failure is without parallel in the history of Scottish football.
As the club hurtles towards a new abyss, names are cropping up which should send a shudder down the spines of every honest, genuine supporter of not only Rangers but every team in the land. The SFA claims that a strong Rangers is essential for the sake of Scottish football, but they have been extraordinarily lax in protecting that club, and therefore the game, from destructive elements. Craig Whyte and Charles Green had dubious personal histories, and the acquisition of the club itself was mired in controversy and scandal. Yet it was allowed.
Neither Green nor Whyte were known to have operated outside the law, yet neither was worthy of trust or stood up to scrutiny. Neither man should ever have been granted the status as fit and proper persons to assume a role in our national sport, and if it is true of them what can we say about the three men who are, presently, being touted as the Great White Hopes for a bright, new Rangers future; Dave King and the Easdale brothers?
King recently cut a deal with the South African government over an on-going dispute over taxes. In other words, he pled guilty and accepted the central plank of their argument; that for years he was engaged in wilfully with-holding vast revenues from their Treasury. The media does not like to put it like that, and the SFA seems willing to ignore it utterly, and this would be scandalous enough. But it does not stop there. HRMC rules – as well as the SFA’s own governance documents – actually bar him from serving on the board of the new club.
Last but not least, aside from being an admitted tax cheat, King is also awaiting trial in South Africa, having been indicted for corruption, forgery and fraud – 300 charges in total. Yet as recently as last week, we were told that the Association was willing to look at him and consider representations from his lawyers. This is almost beyond belief.
If Dave King’s position is untenable, and he is yet to be convicted of a crime, what can we say about the position of the Easdale’s? One of the two brothers, Sandy, has already served jail time. He is a convicted criminal, a fraudster nonetheless, who’s “victim” was the same Treasury who are appealing one case involving the old club and liquidated it entirely over another. This is precisely the kind of “businessman” the fit and proper person test was supposed to weed out, and if the SFA holds its nose here the reek will stink out the halls at Hampden for decades. If King or the Easdale’s are judged fit and proper, then who exactly is the test for? What exactly do you have to do to fail it? How do we explain the existence of laws, when these are not applied?
Pascal says “Law without force is impotent.” The SFA’s weakness has allowed one version of Rangers to destroy itself, and has allowed an existential risk to another. If the next power at Rangers resides in South Africa or Greenock I can say with some certainty that the Association is engaged in an even more dangerous roll of the dice, because the surfacing of fresh scandal will be an ever present risk, and will be of the sort no-one will survive.
The damage to Scottish football will take years to heal. The Scottish game has been through enough trauma. It does not need more. It barely survived the last calamity to hit Rangers. The rest of us should not be forced to pay the price of the next one.
The greater damage will be done to Rangers itself. If the Green crisis ends in another collapse – as it well might; another administration event is a certainty, and another liquidation is a much more likely prospect than it was before 14 February 2012 – the club will once again have to start from the bottom, and this time the reputational damage will be impossible to repair. The club faces internal strife, sporting sanctions, and criminal investigations. The last takeover might be declared a fraud. the Whyte takeover will almost certainly be. The share issue might be invalid, as well as criminal, and the people involved may well end up in jail. Lawsuits could follow from investors, there could be as yet unknown consequences from the Upper Tier Tax Tribunal (thank you Brogan Rogan for pointing out what those might be) and a host of other issues.
Rangers fans must be the loudest voices here. How do you want the world to view your club in years to come? Do you want one to be proud of, or one forever associated with the shame and disgrace of these days gone by? The one which bailed out on its tax obligations. The one with supporters who disgrace your very name. The one which allowed Whyte and Green to take you to the cleaners and send you to the wall. The one which handed over control to one convicted criminal and another awaiting trial. Do you want to be reborn clean, or mired in the muck?
David Murray destroyed your financial stability. He made it so no bank would issue you a line of credit and no investor of note wanted to buy. Craig Whyte liquidated you. Charles Green has cast the future of the Newco into doubt and acted in a manner which has annihilated your credibility with the financial markets for decades to come.
Between these three men, they have taken everything from you, and the press and the people who run the game here, as well as some of your own blindly ignorant fans, have allowed them to do all this and more. Now they conspire to hand the keys to Ibrox to other men of questionable character, who will wreck further havoc on the reputation of the club.
The Scottish Football Association has damaged the game it was supposed to protect, but above all else their greatest failure of governance was a failure to protect one of its biggest clubs from its own excesses and those of its owners.
Rangers fans, the SFA have betrayed your trust, more than the trust of any other club. What you must insist on now is full disclosure and transparency from the powers that be in Hampden. The SFA has to end the charade of allowing your club to handle this in-house. They must hand everything over to an outside agency – whether a legal one, or a footballing body like UEFA – and they must demand co-operation and answers, and threaten to withhold the license if they don’t get them.
You must not be afraid of that. You must embrace it. The men with their hands on the gears at Ibrox are motivated by money, and nothing more. If the license is withdrawn their “investments” are worthless. They cannot risk that.
You must demand that the rules on fit and proper persons are applied, and where necessary even made stronger, to prevent your club falling into unclean hands. You must demand that they protect your reputation from further damage, by getting this all out there and acting accordingly, even if that means your club does not play football for at least a year.
You must be willing to suck it all up, knowing that what will emerge is a Rangers which has been cleansed and moves forward with honour, and dignity, led by custodians who treasure it rather than those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
The Rangers Standard has recently emerged as a genuine voice for those in your support who are sick and tired of what Rangers has become, and want it restored to something that is worthy of the love and respect in which you hold it. On that website, there are discussions about the kind of club you seek to be and about whether the institution of Rangers is about more than just football.
If that’s how you feel about it then you know it is about more than how many titles the club can claim, about more than just results on the park, about more than just the game. Rangers, like Celtic, is an idea. It has to be something you are proud of.
I am a socialist, but one with a fevered imagination and a tendency to write very dark things. This piece won’t have been good reading for some of you (perhaps all of you haha!) but I think there’s more hope in here than in other things I’ve written.
In spite of everything that’s come to pass, I still believe. I believe in Scottish football. I believe in our system of football governance, even if those who are working in it are failing on some level.
In society, as much as we strain against them, laws exist for our protection. To fail to enforce them is to leave us at the mercy of those elements who would do us harm. The rules of football ensure the protection of all clubs, not just a few.
The failure to enforce the rules has never had graver consequences than here in Scotland. The irony is that bending and breaking them has hurt the one club those violations were designed to help. It cannot be allowed to happen again.
The rules must be applied without fear or favour.
The best must find their conviction, and their passionate intensity once more.
James is a co-editor of the On Fields of Green Blog http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/
Any thoughts yet on who all this transparency benefits?
I have seen on here quite a few comments on here that the CF stuff tells us nothing new. Think not about us but the Pretendygers fans, the good ones. (I know).
They have long suspected this.
Its now in black and Whyte for them. Surely this time they will do something other than blame everyone else.
I know I am being over optimistic but surely this now proves to them they are surrounded by sharks and are being eaten alive.
A short perusual of the bear sites makes me think not. No mention of CF at all. They are maybe waiting on SSB telling them.
What a day.
Loch Lomond was beautiful but this has a distorted beauty all of its own.
For about two years punters on here have been conjecturing and hypothesising and never really knowing if the effort they were putting in were ever going to amount to a ‘hill of beans’.
What a day.
You couldn’t make it up.
Charlotte, we don’t know who you are or what your motives are but there’s a bunch of people on here that will be going to bed with a warm feeling of satisfaction tonight.
Maybe you are a harlot but whatever your motives, you’ve provided enough ammunition to make an awful lot of people who have comprimised themselves (reverted to type) very uneasy indeed. They will not sleep so well.
The corollary must be that if so much intuition and deduction was proved correct, what other extrapolations are also going to be firmed up.
This is a huge scandal. THIS IS A HUGE SCANDAL.
I’m so glad I was here to see it unfold.
So tomorrow is another day. There’s too much for me to read. Those that already know the story well will fill in the missing pieces and paint a pretty picture for me here on my computer screen. A diabollically beautiful picture.
James F’s blog above selected governance as its topic. We have seen how commercial decorum has been twisted and bent to satisfy a few devices. Even if the resolution of these matters takes till eternity, other governing bodies cannot surely stand idly by and say nothing. They must appreciate now that they have potentially been deeply deeply compromised.
I look forward to the coming weeks and months where I anticipate this site achieving its full potential and possibly a bit more.
RTC. You must be feeling a distinct feeling of vindication right now.
chipm0nk says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 00:43
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I don’t even know why you bothered even asking anyone if you know already.
I’ll leave you to it Beltrami.
bogsdollox says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 00:45
Any thoughts yet on who all this transparency benefits?
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The Rangers’ supporters who put their money into buying season tickets, shares and merchandise. Who buy the pies which John Brown spoke of on the steps of Ibrox Stadium. Who really are the club.
Who actually put their own money in. Not like the spivs, rogues and charlatans who only see what they can take out of it.
However if they choose not to listen then that is clearly a matter for them.
So mote it be.
bogsdollox says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 00:45
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Any thoughts yet on who all this transparency benefits?
My point exactly a page ago. I got TD’s but the question must be asked.
Qui Bono?
smartbhoy says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 00:48
chipm0nk says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 00:43
______________________
I don’t even know why you bothered even asking anyone if you know already.
I’ll leave you to it Beltrami.
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Male, White, 50 – 60, from Glasgow, could have done better at school but never really encouraged, parents too busy making a living. Decent job but slightly bitter, blames other people.
Sorry but none of the above is my fault, get over it.
chipm0nk says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 00:52
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bogsdollox says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 00:45
Any thoughts yet on who all this transparency benefits?
_________________________________________________________
Karma, maybe?
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
The thing about MAD is it only works if people are honest and sane. And after MAD you have nuclear war. And the thing about nuclear war is that no one wins.!
My theory: Its a Mexican standoff & they shot each others balls off!
Well: Good, I say!
That is the spirit of my hope, but it is tinged with a healthy mixture of scepticism, and a slice of genuine cynicsim floating in the glass, for the bitter twist which keeps you sharp.
Resin
That’s why Im so sure its Craigy – He is mental- in the pure Scots sense. He is like yon Possil dug the lad mentioned earlier growling about with a half brick in his mouth when what he’s entitled to in his mind is a right good wedge.
Been on the Don Revie, sorry. All night had,
” de do ra rue,
de do ra rue,
de do ra rue,
da doop da roop aaaahh,
de doop da da
de doop da da ”
in my head.
CF, nuclear or unclear, good night had by all (mixed company, mainly delusional, but even more entertaining), home free, catching up, running out of mixers, H20 in the vodka, striptease in the head, integrity in the soul, football on the brain, my club of choice in the heart.
Everyday, we edge closer to the 21st century.
night, night.
resin_lab_dog says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 01:02
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sorry, can’t believe that with many millions at stake there isn’t an angle to this latest information overload.
Everyone is implicated – but The Malkster and The King”’yyyyy are being touted as the rescuers.
angordub says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 00:58
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bogsdollox says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 00:45
Healthy and scientific. TU from me.
Ask the questions…
I find the exchanges involving BRTH on the authenticity or otherwise of CF documentation as a massive endorsement of this forum. And I still don’t know the answer for sure. But I trust this forum to ask the questions the media won’t.
Whoever ultimately prevails as being right is irrelevant : the information was challenged, Doubts were raised. Discussion followed. Theories were advanced. Evidence was discussed. Facts were agreed. Conjecture was allowed. Dissent was encouraged. Inconsistencies were discarded. Good faith was accepted. Idiots were dismissed. Consensus may or may not have been reached. There’s a name for this. Its called Science. I think its the fastest way to find out for sure what’s happening in the world.
But then again,.. I’m biased! So don’t take my word for it. Look at the evidence critically, and Judge for yourself!
ianagain says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 01:10
Resin
That’s why Im so sure its Craigy – He is mental- in the pure Scots sense. He is like yon Possil dug the lad mentioned earlier growling about with a half brick in his mouth when what he’s entitled to in his mind is a right good wedge.
=++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I once played against Possil YM in a cup game it ended in a rammy in the dressing room after a 1-1 draw. Later that year we pumped them in a major tournament where Big Jock handed us the trophy. Brian McGinley was the ref in the final but that was before he made the pages of the Daily Record for his slow driving around Glasgow.
Years before that I “scouted” Possil YM with my old man and at age 12 we both decided a young skinny 4 foot 2 Bobby Russell was the player to watch. We were both right. I seem to recall that they were sponsored by Aston Villa back in those days.
ianagain says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 01:10
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Resin
That’s why Im so sure its Craigy – He is mental- in the pure Scots sense. He is like yon Possil dug the lad mentioned earlier growling
__________________________________________________
Craigy’s ex wife mebbe?
Thinking about the Huhnes etc.?
Speculation… no wish to implicate the innocent unnecessarily.
My guess is whoever it is has access to alot of his info and don’t like him alot!
resin_lab_dog says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 01:22
bogsdollox says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 00:45
Healthy and scientific. TU from me.
Ask the questions…
I find the exchanges involving BRTH on the authenticity or otherwise of CF documentation as a massive endorsement of this forum. And I still don’t know the answer for sure. But I trust this forum to ask the questions the media won’t.
Whoever ultimately prevails as being right is irrelevant : the information was challenged, Doubts were raised. Discussion followed. Theories were advanced. Evidence was discussed. Facts were agreed. Conjecture was allowed. Dissent was encouraged. Inconsistencies were discarded. Good faith was accepted. Idiots were dismissed. Consensus may or may not have been reached. There’s a name for this. Its called Science. I think its the fastest way to find out for sure what’s happening in the world.
But then again,.. I’m biased! So don’t take my word for it. Look at the evidence critically, and Judge for yourself!
_______________________________________________________________________
I agree with you. It is scientific – ask questions, hypothesis – get knocked down but keep askin questions
mullach says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 00:46
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_________________________________________________
“Huge scandal.”
I would propose that..on the basis of available substantial evidence in support and minimal evedence oppsong… we elevate this to the status of ‘fact’
Opposing arguments invited.
After all this time… when even actual, verifiable facts have been brought to the table, and laid out for all to see… has there been, in anyones view, a just decision ? Has there not been interminable periods of silence, obfuscation, delay, bluster, and outright denial ?
Now we have a series of titbits deliberately released, purporting to provide damning evidence of nefarious activity…. and what ? Anyone in any position of authority saying anything ? Denial (and there was denial previously), comment (and there was comment previously).. is the whole thing stuck in some legal morass ? Is that what is intended ?
Who’s got a fact that they can verify and advise is genuine in this latest episode ? I hate to say it, but any of the recent purported documents could have been, indeed, faked…. or am I missing something ?
nostarsandbarred says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 01:40
_______________________________
Healthy attitude.
The more emerges, the better the credibility. If it is a hoax is reached the point of elaborateness where we can be forgiven for being taken in.
But the question does needs to be asked is why is it being releases now & in what order etc?
Somne possible theories:
(i) Brown envelope job.
A acquires information on B as ‘security’… naked photos of the boss kind of thing. A deposits info with C in escrow. B screws A. C opens envelope. Those of you who have seen the film ‘Shawshank redemption’ will be familiar with the narrative.
(ii) Media manipulation.
Narrative A needs to be told to benefit C. Narrative B is compelling. C releases info on B in order than A is accepted as a trojan horse.
(iii) MAD. Media war reaches new media. A controls media. B seeks to gain control of t’internet. with opposing viewpoint.
(iv) Third party wants to damage all other parties & has the means (ex-wife theory)
(v) Nothing to see here. It is what it is. gang war gone wrong/public. They are simply all crooks.
Those are my random guesses. Rip it apart guys!
nostarsandbarred says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 01:40
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It must be food for thought for BDO in their quest to round up the culprits who crashed Rangers(old)
HMRC want to get a grip on the conmen a bit sooner.
It must be food for thought for that Lord Hodge geezer and the Insolvency Practioners Association who will be reporting on the Admin he was legally in charge of.
The Law Society may yet rise from their slumber.
THE AIM geezers might eventually wonder why this Green geezer keeps popping up to front flotations which always go boobies up. Not to mention the role of Nomads.
PWC, Deloittes, GT might want to tighten up their client acceptance and audit procedures.
The Banks might want to fess up to their role in all this.
SDM might want to think about handing back his knighthood.
The SFA might want to come clean and start again but this time on a fairer basis.
David Longmuir needs to be more honest.
Vincent Lunny needs to farkin’ get oot mair.
Companies House may need to have a long hard look at themselves and ask who is regulating the Corporate spivs?
The MSM should look for new jobs asap. We are on your case – youse are thick & spineless.
I could go on but I’m going to leave it there.
resin_lab_dog says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 01:55
bogsdollox says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 01:59
I couldn’t agree more… I just want one (just one !) of the so called establishment authorities to do something in the light of what purports to be pretty damning evidence…. so far, they’ve run away and hid as best they can, with some pretty hefty “authority” backing them up.
Even if the documentation is proven to be genuine I have severe misgivings re the outcome… but I would be delighted to be proven wrong !
Looks like I’m the only one still awake. Think I’ll rummage back and find BRTH’s episode of the Vital Spark.
cui bono – well CW is my guess, CF is someone close to him or helped by him, all the leaks so far reinforce his claim that he was involved in the purchase by CG et al, and the time stamps of the CF posts should not be ignored – they do align well with the US east coast or the Caribbean (BVI?) – now if only TSFM had the ip address of the CF posts 🙂 – but one other weird thought popped into my head – given the US centred times could it be someone else scorned? what about the truck magnate? did he or his associates have access to the data room as part of the due diligence?
Third audio clip seems have been posted in wee small hours.
@CharlotteFakes
Craig, Charles and Brian ‘position untenable’ Stockbridge have a chat – warning – crude language.
2:52am – 18 May 13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/cg3
Sorry to take your minds off Charlotte for a moment but I thought Neil Lennon’s comments about Hearts yesterday were hilarious……
“It’s a pretty sad situation,” he said.
“We’d lose probably the third biggest club. We’ve already lost the second biggest so it doesn’t look good.”
🙂
Mullach
Besides the Vital Spark and the revelations of Charlotte the Harlot….. I give you the Mucklefuck Chronicles for your delectation and entertainment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaxE1fmz-VM
I have googled all Charlotte’s information and I found it all to be a pile of Craig Whyte…. well watch the clip and you will see!
Danish Pastry on Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 05:40
6 0 Rate This
Third audio clip seems have been posted in wee small hours.
@CharlotteFakes
Craig, Charles and Brian ‘position untenable’ Stockbridge have a chat – warning – crude language.
2:52am – 18 May 13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/cg3
///////////////////////////////////////////////
I don’t know quite why but since listening to this audio I can’t get the Dennis Waterman, “I could be so good for you” tune out of my head.
So right yet so wrong on so many levels
🙂
The febrile atmosphere on here is misplaced.
What CF is publishing will not become news because it cannot be verified; no media outlet will run it without verification of the evidence and the bona fides (if that isn’t a contradiction in terms) of CF.
Also everything that has been published by CF is obsolete if at some point CW legally assigned the rights of Secvo 5088 to Secvo Scotland.
No proof as yet has been offered that categorically shows either he did or he didn’t.
So on the legal point,which should be all that most people care about, we are none the clearer.
In terms of the kind of people that have had a hold of the club in the past few years, we have had confirmed what many suspected. This is as unsavoury a bunch of individuals as you could wish to meet individually never mind collectively.
In Watergate what eventually ‘did’ for Nixon so far as public perception was concerned was not the crime or the detail of the cover up; it was the foul language used by him and his associates in the White House.
In this case though, most of us probably formed an opinion long ago that all of these characters use language of a most industrial kind and so are not surprised by the expletives.
Your average supine Rangers fan remains a spectator on the sidelines; it remains my view that a majority (maybe a very small majority) of Rangers supporters are not supporters of a club but supporters of a cause. That is why there is not the “fans’ movement” we have seen at Celtic in 1994, and more recently at Dundee, at Hearts, at Dunfermline and down south at Portsmouth.
So the decent minority, who don’t really like the tiny majority but are scared to offend them, don’t want to put their heads above the parapet and the supporters of the cause are used to the cause being fronted by the rich guy in the big house to whom they doff their caps.
Really there is no prospect of Rangers being saved from the spivs for the decent supporters unless those decent supporters start up a brand new club, incorporating the many decent principles of the Rangers’ founding fathers and rejecting the abhorrent ones that crept in during the first part of the 20th century under the first ‘spiv’ manager, Struth, Oh and abandon Ibrox at least in the short term until the rogue landlord(s) are forced to sell at a knockdown price.
54 (leaked tapes) to nil effect
My first contribution since the LNS decision. A post earlier got my wee brain thinking ” who benefits” from the fall out of CF.
Our “hero” would be the #1 suspect and indeed seems the most likely as he doesnt appear to be getting paid re sevco 5088. However if the whole shebang comes crashing down which seems inevitable who then benefits ? for me its the “real rangers men” who will form the next incarnation of Rangers. Im a layman but if the sale of RFC is overturned the “real rangers men” could pick up a debt free carcass at a reasonable price, certainly cheaper than buying up the existing shares at around 55p per share.
So for me the group who the old media back to save “rangers” are who will ultimately profit,step forward the new improved whiter(that name again) “lyin king” and his cardigan wearing chums. Quite how they got the CF info doesnt matter one iota ” just follow the mney” and who ultimately benefits.
The time that the CF info is released is interesting.
Anyone up for a little “surrender no” involvement………….and that would NEARLY square the circle so to speak.
Slim
That is pretty succinct and regrettably accurate.
You get the impression that it is all being leaked to force a reaction from somewhere.
As I said before– whoever appears out of the mist to clear all of this up— even if it is the devil incarnate himself— will be welcomed with open arms no matter what transgressions he/she might have been guilty of before.
hayzaboy on Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 08:06
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My first contribution since the LNS decision. A post earlier got my wee brain thinking ” who benefits” from the fall out of CF.
///////////////////////////////////////////
Thanks Hayzaboy. You have managed to get the Dennis Waterman tune out of my head. Your post has now got me singing “being for the benifit of Mr Kite” by the beatles. Only substituting Kite with Whyte.
” for the benifit of Mr Whyte there will be a show tonight on trampoline. The hendersons will all be there…….
slimshady61,
I completely disagree.
There is nothing to stop the MSM simply asking RIFC and the SFA for comment on these tapes.
They will not want to go on the record lying, and if they make no comment then at least the existence of the tapes is out and about in the mainstream media.
Shake the tree, ask a few questions, make them uncomfortable, force them to confront what the tapes appear to reveal.
That’s what most journalists would do.
So many revelations,
and speculations,
and all to the good,
but still no sign of justice.
I love the notion that the press will only publish things which are accurate and verifiable, and if the source can be proven.
Since when.
If they want to publish any of this material they will. they will find a way to word things and have their lawyers check that wording.
If they don’t publish it will be because they choose not to, for their own reasons.
It will certainly not be because the bona fides of the source and the in formation cannot be verified.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 07:31
8 0 Rate This
I have googled all Charlotte’s information and I found it all to be a pile of Craig Whyte…. well watch the clip and you will see!
———-
Looks like Bomber saw that clip and has been googling too:
‘Romanov’s as bad as Craig Whyte’, says John Brown … “From day one you could see what he was going to do. So there’s not much difference between him and the Craig Whytes of this world.” (The Scotsman)
🙂
I have to disagree slightly with my excellent fellow posters Slimshady and BRTH.
Charles Green was forced from his position of CEO, by a 15 second clip out of last nights 4 minute audio.
Stockbridge cannot and will not survive now that the entire clip has been played. What is being demonstrated is that ,with the exception of Malcolm Murray, nobody on the Rangers board can be trusted to act ethically. I will exempt Walter Smith from this, in the regard that he isn’t plc boardroom material any more than John Greig was, and understandably at this stage isn’t resigning as Murray needs someone to support him.We may want to cut Cartmell some slack, as the spivs wouldn’t want him out , if he was aligned with them
What however is unthinkable is McCoist or Smith endorsing a season book campaign in the way that McCoist did last year. Without last years endorsement , Rangers would already have run out of money.
An enterprising journalist should ask the simple question of McCoist and Smith.
” Do you recommend Rangers supporters go out and renew season books given the current turmoil”
Without season book income, the inevitable will accelerate and Rangers fans, painful as it will be for them, will have an opportunity to support new owners. Owners they trust , and who aren’t looking to exploit the club and fans for their own personal benefit.
The proof over whether Whyte legally transferred his interest in Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland , in my view is a problem for Green and gang , not Whyte. Whyte has to prove he had an interest in Sevco 5088, that is largely being done by the recordings and emails released so far, as well as what Whyte will be able to provide via his legal team.
Green then has to show that he did not illegally transfer the beneficial interest to Sevco Scotland, without Whyte’s permission and agreement. He will only be able to do that, IMO , by producing a legal document. It is unthinkable he hasn’t done that already, if he had it in the first place
The other interesting element of the released Sevco 5088 offer is whether it referred to Sevco 5088 or a successor company. Unfortunately the form of the release by CF doesn’t allow for it to be word searched in scrib’d or I books, and therefore it’s going to be a slow process to to establish that.
The interesting aspect is that the CVA offer , produced by D&P , did mention a successor company. Should the Sevco 5088 offer not refer to a successor company, you have to wonder how on earth it ended up being described that way in the CVA .
The power of what CF has released , so far, is that it should enable the Rangers fans, collectively to open their eyes , and become the key factor in removing the spivs.
I don’t underestimate for a second the problems this will bring. I know it’s not going to be a case of no season book income, and things resolve themselves quickly and easily. However it’s a necessary first step
The latest info from CF may not be final agreed terms of the sales agreement etc., the various e mails may be/not be genuine however the tapes certainly show there was a cosy relationship between CW and CG during the sale process . Putting aside by whom and why these tapes are being put in the public domain, it certainly confirms the SFA had/do not have a clue what these Spivs were/are up to! They “sold their souls” to a bunch of crooks, liers, cheats by breaking nearly every rule in their books, ( indeed created some new ones where necessary) whether deliberately or through incompetence. SIMPLES THEY SHOULD GO especially CO and now !!
I await with interest to the findings of the various enquiries, commissions, etc ( too many to list) currently it is making the legal profession look to be “not fit for purpose”
Barca/Slim et al
You can be sure that the leaked info will be referred to at least opaquely during sportsound this afternoon– where it will be commented on but referred to as unverified sources and so on.
Things have moved incredibly in the course of the past week.
I for one was very suspicious of the Charlotte Fakeover revelations — and I am still suspicious about the effect– and the desired effect — of the documents leaked.
However, I know of at least 3 internet bampots ( correct that 4 ) who have had direct contact and who are more than satisfied as to the validity of what is being released on the net. All 4 are reputable and are of good judgement in the main– always accepting that anyone can be fooled in a situation like this.
With regard to the press, they will know all this and will be beavering away at trying to find out as much as possible. However, no one will take the plunge until– as you say– they can get an official quote or comment that links a mainstream player to the Charlotte the Harlot revelations.
Until then it is an unverified source with unsubstantiated documents and unaccredited audio.
We all know that it is real– and so do they– but they will be wary. Remember Whyte was only too quick to say he was going to court with the BBC.
All of this is made more difficult for the media because Green has bolted. He has left his flat and headed for France stating that he will not be returning under any circumstances. Now of course what Charles says and what actually happens have not always coincided– but my info is that he has gone and ain’t coming back.
The media will get there in the end but will they ask the correct questions?
With all this rubbish flying about, just who will save Rangers? And if someone steps forward who appears to be more palatable than Whyte or Green,– but who also has a decidedly dodgy past– will that just be ignored and swept under the carpet by the masses and the so called football authorities?
We still haven’t got to the source of the money– all the money?
Who funded Octopus?
Who funded the IPO?
Who were the “Green” Backers if not Craig Whyte personally?
All this stuff from Charlotte is only a snippet of how things were done and nothing of “why” they were done?
Here you have Green, Whyte and Stockbridge openly talking about a deal which is even being kept from Green’s lawyers. That is understandable for fear of them withdrawing and stating they do not want to be a party to the con.
Is that why the dodgy letter before claim didn’t come from a firm of solicitors?– because some would have known it is a pile of horse shit?
Do we really believe that Green suddenly decided to stiff Whyte one day out of the blue? or are we being played just like the Lawyers were?
Are we being fed a treacherous story because it suits those involved to show treason in their ranks?
Make no mistake. HMRC, The Police, BDO and many creditors will all be looking at this and some will think ” What the F…k is going on here?”.
The press may stay out the road so as not to tread on a police enquiry!
Meanwhile,as you say– the Rangers fans– are to be cajoled into buying season tickets to watch a team comprising of god knows who and from an owner who is even less clear.
Meanwhile– the SFA impersonate Nero.
Proof of Fraud not served by what dished up [so far]
And although the tapes are compelling, and openly admitted `shafted` to many = fraud and collusion
The trick is different
If – and IF – sevco5088 were to `win` as such – and the `assets` were `returned`
Then there is Proof – positive Proof
What we have here is potential warming up juries for a criminal trial
MSM stuff is pants
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 08:08
As I said before– whoever appears out of the mist to clear all of this up— even if it is the devil incarnate himself— will be welcomed with open arms no matter what transgressions he/she might have been guilty of before.
=========================================
…and that will forever be the problem. Until the SFA grow a set and properly apply fit and proper person tests and refuse a licence if the test fails, there appears to be no limit on the amount of fly-by-night’s who can sit in the Ibrox boardroom. Of course, the chances of the SFA ever doing that are the same as a herd of turquoise elephants landing at Glasgow Airport.
An outsider taking a step back from this situation could be forgiven for thinking the SFA have a policy of ‘if Rangers go down, we’ll make damned sure the entire game in Scotland goes down with them’.
italiabhoy says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 08:41
——————————————
Vabbene, we are free to disagree and can do so comfortably in a free society.
Unfortunately the internet contains more rubbish than truth so it is unlikely any of the Scottish MSM will pick up on these tapes and run with them unless they can verify them and speak to CF. That is not going to happen.
Even if it did, the press are not going to bite the hands (RIFC and the SFA) that feed them.
Barcabhoy, I would like to think that the authorities would look at whether the people now running Rangers are fit and proper but using the precedent of the LNS enquiry, Sandy Bryson would no doubt say that even if they have now been shown to be sic a parcel of rogues, as long as they passed the fit and proper tests at the time then the SFA is powerless to act.
One Scotland, many rogues…
Slim/BRTH
I agree that we are getting head of ourselves here. I have had private messages from a couple of people whose judgement I trust vouching for (although never unequivocally) the legitimacy of the material released so far.
One thing (amongst others) that gives me cause for caution is the Dickensian-style management of the story-line. Why the tease? Of course CtH may just be capricious, but you can’t help wondering that there’s an arm twist or a sales pitch going on here – especially since there has been no consequential ripple-effect on a wider basis achieved.
Up to now, I think CtH’s promise outweighs her delivery and I remain sceptical.
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 05:40
Third audio clip seems have been posted in wee small hours.
@CharlotteFakes
Craig, Charles and Brian ‘position untenable’ Stockbridge have a chat – warning – crude language.
2:52am – 18 May 13
================================
I do hope Mr Stockbridge isn’t forced to leave. I was really looking forward to seeing how he will increase the Sevco turnover to £100M.
BRTH
I prefer CtH to CF. Reminds of that wonderful ditty 😉
Would I be correct in saying that even to this day, disgrace and shame is only brought upon wrongdoers if they suffer the wrath of the authorities and they are then shamed in the media?
Neither the authorities or the media seem overly keen on wreaking their wrath or shaming anyone over this Sevco farce.
Have not a clue what the outcome will be in regard The Rangers, but have to say it is entertainment of the highest order. Keep it up you clever people.
Given that the most recent tape released is apparently Brian Stockbridge conspiring with Craig Whyte and Charles Green his position at rangers is surely just as untenable as that of Mr Green (which may actually suit him).
Worth reminding ourselves of his background
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Finance Director
The Rangers Football Club
Privately Held; 201-500 employees; Sports industry
June 2012 – Present (1 year) Glasgow, United Kingdom
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Director
Zeus Capital
Privately Held; 11-50 employees; Investment Banking industry
January 2012 – June 2012 (6 months) London, United Kingdom
Director in Corporate finance and head of London advising small and mid cap companies on public and private fundraisings and on M&A transactions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Director – Corporate Finance
Allenby Capital
Banking industry
January 2010 – January 2012 (2 years 1 month) London, United Kingdom
Director in Corporate finance advising small to medium sized companies on public and private fundraisings and on M&A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Associate Director
Noble & Company
2006 – 2009 (3 years)
Senior Manager
Grant Thornton
Partnership; 1001-5000 employees; Accounting industry
1996 – 2005 (9 years)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Assistant Secretary
Panel on Takeovers & Mergers
April 2001 – September 2003 (2 years 6 months)
Regulation of takeovers & mergers
===================================================
The notion that he was somehow independent and presumably remained on the Rangers board because he had caught “Rangersitis”, which seems to be highly contagious, is and always has been simply preposterous.
Green and Ahmed stood down, so what. The acting CEO and the Finance Director are still their men as far as I can see.
Lets not forget.
If the SFA had done their statutory job before the RFC Champions League licence was issued and then again a year ago and applied THEIR rules then a lot of the value to the spivs would have been cut off at the pass.
Ogilvie and Regan have so many questions to answer.
All their help and coordinated delays have done is to facilitate the spivs plans and lead to the fleecing of the creditors and the fans.
They have made things much much worse.
Our clubs have watched it all passively.
So obviously they need to be told what to do to get over the joint collective paralysis.
My starting point is to demand that the 5 way agreement and the rationale behind it be published.
So Mr Lawwell, Mr Petrie, Mr Thompson, Mr MacGregor, Mr Cameron, Mr Gilmour, Mr Milne, Mr Brown, etc. etc …
You are about to come cap in hand wanting our money for next years season books.
Lets start by treating us the fans as the stakeholders we are.
Looks like the spivs want to be “removed” will they be able to sell their shares to the fans before the start of next season
Something that has always puzzled me is how they could profit, they seem to be laying the groundwork through CF to create a market for the shares that previously didn’t exsist.
IPO December 6 months tie ins close season
As they say timing is everything
Question is
What sort of state will the fans owned RFC 2013 be left in
Haven’t they been punished …
.. at all?
The SPL clubs voted not to allow new Rangers in, (other than Kilmarnock).
That and HMRC having previously blocked the CVA is what really fecked the plan.
The SFA and the SPL tried to blackmail and bully them into the top league. They predicted Armageddon for their own organisations if it didn’t happen.
So let’s bear in mind where the blame really lies, rather than laying it at the feet of the football clubs who actually said no. Or the fans who told their clubs that accepting them was going beyond the pail.
Rangers, the SFA and the SPL are the guilty parties here. Not the other clubs.
Chipm0nk
You are spot on– this is what I have been saying all along. The faces may change but the power and influence doesn’t.
Green and Whyte are a team— neither are there personally any more but their man is!
And be wary of whoever comes next.
http://videocelts.com/2013/05/blogs/latest-news/charlotte-fakeover-publishes-sevco-5088-purchase-agreement-for-rangers-in-administration
One of the important bits missing from the jigsaw is any paperwork showing that CW was a director or shareholder of Sevco 5088 and I can’t see Whyte being daft enough to believe that a pre-signed director’s form by Green would be sufficient proof of that. There would need to be a company resolution or some legally binding side agreement in place.
I take Barcabhoy’s point that there is the possibilty that even if that is the case did CW allow either exclusivity or his rights in Sevco 5088 to legally pass to Sevco Scotland. It might seem unlikely but not impossible as we might never ever be able to put ourselves in Whyte’s mind and view the Masterplan. But again would he have trusted Green without some kind of documented legal back-up especially when he seems to have taped him on every occasion. Would be nice to know the venue of the latest taping and actual date although it’s obviously pre the CVA collapse.
Still, if Stockbridge is the ‘Brian’ on the tape then that Young Turk might be about to become toast. I don’t ever remember any mention of him meeting with Whyte before and it must raise the question as to whether the finance director of Rangers International Plc and TRFCL was aware that Green was engaged in a strategy of ‘conning’ Whyte.
Always worth remembering a lesser used meaning of ‘conning’ being ‘steering’ and it certainly fits that what seemed a clever ploy by Green has possibly ended up pointing the good ship Dignity straight at that iceberg yet again.
There is absolutely nothing to stop the MSM running with the ‘Charlotte’ material especially the audio. It’s a fact it exists and that it is widely available on the internet for any member of the public to access.
In fact it’s a great mystery story – Who is Charlotte? Where is Charlotte?
Quite simply the legal trick is not to claim the material is factual but just to ask Stockbridge if he is the guy on the tape and to ask Green if the guy on the tape is Stockbridge. It doesn’t matter a hoot what they say whether it’s accepted, denied or No Comment – it’s still a story and can be run without the slightest problem.
Personally I reckon it could be run even without approaching them but the lawyers would feel better if it was done.
So the question which really intrigues me is why the silence from the media – what are they frightened of; what are they protecting; or what have they been promised. Or have they been warned of a second Armageddon by someone at the SFA – possibly the same person who had a word in newboy Mather’s ear. So really we shouldn’t be deriding the MSM for their cowardice but recognising their beyond the call of duty defence of the very existance of Scottish Football.
The sad thing for the MSM is that they have yet to understand that most football fans in our wee country no longer wish Scottish Football to continue in its current form as it most certainly isn’t worth defending and its time for a clear-out of the suits and their secret ways and for much greater transparency.
Oh I was wrong, it’s all the fault of John Reid and HMRC.
From Follow Follow
“Don’t forget Dr Deaths role in this, particularly with his links to HMRC, who are also guilty of not agreeing a settlement with minty (a £10m offer to settle EBT claim in 2010) and allowing CW to run up a massive PAYE & VAT bill. All of these events put us into administration. “
As always the triumvirate that is Barca,Slim and BRTH have so much to offer in terms of analysis of the current CF releases.
There is nothing stopping the MSM asking the questions around this information.as it unfolds in order to build a picture.
I can’t help but think this week of the determined and persistent line of questioning put to Nigel Farage by David Miller on BBC Scotland radio.
To those hacks dancing around matters TRFC. It really is that simple.Ask the questions!
My my indeed – What a stir and a fair old stooshie this Charlotte is causing amongst the online community. Is anyone still in doubt that the cat that’s running about is indeed the one that escaped from the bag? Meanwhile back at MSM towers, the word is that keep it tight because Dave King’s coming to save the day – just sit tight, ride the flak and ignore the internet exists because when Dave comes back – he is going to need a laundrette to wash the muck off *whatever* he ran out of S.A. with.
And it’s exactly the same at Hampden. Mr Ogilvie et-al are actually in official hiding.
However, over at Ibrox – Well, I have no idea what those crooks are up to and I don’t think any of the crooks do either – although it would be nice for someone at the SFA to raise and act on the matter of disrepute that the sport is now in because of these crooks…but they wont because of a 90k insurance policy, night out money or not – it’s still a small price to pay for what they got in return – which was lies, rule-breaking and outright corruption – all to save the skin of a reincarnated Rangers.
The whole thing has gone beyond the pale. A ‘shameless glib liar’ is being anxiously awaited by some – and all of the MSM – while the rest of us are dumbstruck. There are two very good reasons why Dave King should not be allowed anywhere near a football club in Scotland but the SFA wont let that bother them. If C.O’s EBT public EBT outing didn’t bother them – nothing, and I mean nothing, will. This is an inherintly corrupt and kleek organisation. Stewart Regan has no influence whatsoever inside the place – it’s Mr Ogilvie that has the biggest influence by far and the blazers and brogues are at his back always.
But i’m not educating anyone. I’m not trying to however I suggest the online community make the removal of Campbell Ogilvie their number one priority. There are a handful of decent people at the SFA and these people will attain more status once the bogey man is gone.
Charlotte would seem to have lots of nasties hiding under her skirt – it’s only going to get worse too i’d wager…it’s genuinly exciting and the sole reason I set-up a twitter account…TSFM, you had her 1st but let her go! How could you?!! Well – it hasn’t quelled the voice of the femme fatal of dubious repuatation and she could well be the tipping point for the establishments reincarnate club and it’s corrupt sponsors.
My – isn’t that a big bulging carpet you have there, Mr Ogilvie…
TSFM says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 09:56
1 0 Rate This
BRTH
I prefer CtH to CF. Reminds of that wonderful ditty
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Which one? The original or the Dave Murray one written for Iron Maiden?
Apologies in advance, and I promise I won’t do it again. However I couldn’t help sharing this particular view. Not the same poster, but the same source.
Lloyd appear to be behind the current woes.
============================
“Will this trail eventually lead back to their door ? this whole sorry chain of destruction was started a long long time ago and i for one think that we may see Lloyds being brought out into the light as a very important cog in this chain,they have generally gotten away scot free amongst all the slander and finger pointing,but i can see a very big fu cking light shining toward their door soon. ”
============================
“…a very important cog in this chain” is comedy genius.
Again, apologies. Carry on.
A Draft of the 5 way agreement has just appeared from Kerrydale Street.
I haven’t has time to read yet
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6qvb6ltlqx11nn/5%20Way%20Agreement%20Draft%20Original.pdf
Follow the money – Best reading on PC brightness full Or Lit…..
New director at Nova Resources
11 May 2012 | 14:12pm
StockMarketWire.com – Chris Morgan, who has served previously with the Metropolitan Police and the National Criminal Intelligence Service, has been appointed a non-executive director of Nova Resources.
He currently serves on the board of a number of investment companies and acts as a consultant, addressing the needs and requirements of an assortment of high net worth individuals, as well as providing legal and investigatory services and management to various multi-million dollar corporate litigations and criminal investigations.
Nova Resources Ltd
Directors Holdings
Deals
Chart
On date:
Directors Holdings
Name Position Appointed Last Deal on Total % Total Shares Held Total Value (£)
Dongwook, Chung Executive Director
Details
Fook-Meng, Chan Chief Executive Officer 55,000,000
Details
Khan, Nazim Non Executive Director
Morgan, Chris Non Executive Director 2012
Resigned
Green, Charles Resigned
was Chairman
RNS Number : 5511D
Nova Resources Limited
17 May 2012
Nova Resources Limited
(“Nova” or “the Company”)
Board Changes
Resignation of director
The Directors of Nova Resources Limited (AIM: NOVA.L) announce the resignation of Mr Charles Green, non-executive director and Chairman, with immediate effect. Mr Green is leaving to pursue other business interests; however the Board wishes to thank him for his valuable contribution to the Company and wishes him well for the future.
The Directors are actively seeking to appoint a replacement to Mr Green in due course. In the meantime, Mr Chan Fook Meng, Chief Executive Officer of Nova, will also act as interim Chairman.
hi everyone..trying to keep up (as usual) with whats going on ..i think this forthcoming movie about all this will now need to be a lord of the rings type trilogy…no way can you fit this story into one 2 hour movie..
i can understand the spivs trying to get complete control of the rangers boardroom now to force through the last part of their plan but what is the motive for trying to get James Easdale and Chris Morgan onto the Rangers board ?…are they potential fallguys as well ?…why would anyone want to get a piece of the mess now ?…cheers
rantinrobin says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 10:32
4 0 Rate This
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There is nothing stopping the MSM asking the questions around this information.as it unfolds in order to build a picture.
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Yes but the MSM fall into two camps – the seekers after truth who are few in number, I can only think of Jim Spence and Stuart Cosgrove in that category who are generally restricted in the access that they have to the public; and the rest of the MSM who are frankly seekers after a quiet life, enjoying being spoon fed and offered the corporate hospitality that Rangers and anyone else provides.
As to the cui bono question (‘cui malo’ might be a better phrase for it since the aim seems to be to damage everyone in sight), I think it was PaulMac2 in the wee small hours of this morning who made a reference to JFK, probably semi-jokingly, but in actual fact this case starts to resemble that.
There are so many vested interests here that it could be anyone leaking the stuff.
Meantime, so much of this scandal is public knowledge that I believe the only tape/emails worth waiting for are the ones of any meeting or conversation between CW and David Murray.
Now that will be interesting and, rest assured, they exist. That is what is exercising the minds of several individuals on two sides of Charlotte Square these days.
54 (Charlotte Square) to 0 (title)
PS There is no 54 Charlotte Square 🙂
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 05:40
“Third audio clip seems have been posted in wee small hours”.
————–
Good morning (now afternoon DP).
The early bird gets the worm.
Thanks for the interesting breakfast fodder. I did intend to buy cornflakes but this is every bit as tasty. Starts off by putting one over on AJ and the Blue Knights then goes onto to discuss their ‘friend’ Patrick’s knowledge of Scots Law. The debenture? Is this connected with season tickets (Ticketus) arrangements? Now that would be naughty.
Charlotte is such a polite woman. A warning of foul language is appropriate when you feel the listeners are of a wholesome disposition.
Sam says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 10:49
So will this Chris Morgan be just another Green man in the Blue Room.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says: Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 10:46
A Draft of the 5 way agreement has just appeared from Kerrydale Street.
I haven’t has time to read yet
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6qvb6ltlqx11nn/5%20Way%20Agreement%20Draft%20Original.pdf
=============================================
That document first appeared months ago. I saved a downloaded copy of it back in September last year and I’m sure it was doing the rounds for several weeks/months before then.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 07:31
re – The only way is Billy.
I note you omitted to warn of the unfortunate expletives peppered throughout that piece. My cheeks are now a rosy pink with unanticipated embarassment. Its amazing what you can find on the internet. Did you know Copernicus thought the Earth had two moons. Yeh. Check it out.
When working for a building firm I heard a story that a senior member in his younger days had constructed a building roof back to front. I seen something similar when a drawing office apprentice. The drawings were on a trasparent plastic sheet and a photocopy of a portion had been taken with the drawing facing the wrong way up. Luckily that was spotted before and major alterations were executed.
We all live in doubt. Sometimes we may even doubt we live.
BRTH
i agree on your point that the MSM won’t dive in and and publish based on what has been released. With one exception.
The audio tape released last night was clearly the entire tape that contained the clip of Green “so you are Sevco, thats what we are saying”. The media , I think it was The Sun, obviously satisfied themselves that this was genuine . Presumably because it came from Whyte or someone the Legals deemed to be a genuine source.
It isn’t too much of a stretch to justify last nights tape therefore also passes a legal test for MSM publication, strong language aside. Once you have made that leap, publishing the rest becomes more do-able
With one Caveat. How was the information acquired. There can be little doubt the information is genuine, I have no doubt whatsoever . It then becomes a public importance issue . Is it a matter of public importance.
There has been an IPO where ￡22 million was raised. The legality of that IPO is under question
The UK State was deprived of significant tax revenues by a previous , and connected, version of the firm which benefitted from the IPO.
The asset sale by D&P is under review by Lord Hodge. Did creditors receive the best return ?
I would argue that these are matters of significant public interest and that the right to publish has a strong case.
Mark Daly and Panorama did an incredibly effective job in exposing the EBT issue, and the issues surrounding Whyte. The advantage Mark had, and still has , is that the BBC Lawyers are not prepared to bow to threats from PR agencies and will run a story which is in the public interest ahead of their own commercial interest .
5 way – “First division”- barstewards – sorted that for them then – no wonder Donkey was raging. Guess they wont be having their 100k deposit back.
That’s the end of Donkey and Regan.
Know I know why Derek Weir resigned. In disgust.
I agree Barca,the precedent is set in relation to the BBC and any PR in relation to TRFC at present is,in my view,in no position to present a bullish front.
Allyjambo
Yes I was sure I had seen it before as well.
However, one thing jumps out at me.
Presuming that this draft reflects an attempt to set down on paper what was agreed around a table at discussion—— how come the draft even contained what we see here if Mr Bryson was so sure about his stance on registrations?
The Administration or Liquidation of Rangers PLC would never have caused that draft to be in the terms stated.
Clearly– at the time— The SFA and the SPL thought that there were some grounds for the relinquishing of the position of champions?
Now what were they if Bryson was advising that there was nothing wrong with the registrations as per his subsequent– unchallenged expert evidence?
I would add that the BBC must surely be set to revisit this story,and the only homegrown investigative journalist who has entered this arena with any real aplomb is Mark Daly.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 08:08
Slim
That is pretty succinct and regrettably accurate.
You get the impression that it is all being leaked to force a reaction from somewhere.
As I said before– whoever appears out of the mist to clear all of this up— even if it is the devil incarnate himself— will be welcomed with open arms no matter what transgressions he/she might have been guilty of before.
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Understand Slims point entirely although I have to say that at least I understand the Ticketus position now. As regards Charlottes motivation I will wait and see although i could envisage
(1) His wife..having had all his stuff removed by faithful staff….now charged with theft. getting a bit of revenge….the photographs were a bit out of context.
(2) A scenario where Whyte says he has everything and tries to obtain a one off substantial payment for non release of the rest of the information. Therefore release some interesting but not seriously incriminating documents to hard point your position as a tactic.
Watching with interest…………..interestingly Stockbridge claims he is not part of the Ahmad team yet has worked for him for years. He claims not to have been a recipient in the penny share handout and therefore is independent. Has he heard of investment vehicles that do not feature your actual name. I am sure his penny shares are tucked up nicely in a blind trust somewhere!
Havent clocked it previously.
Mullach
Was Charlotte in your bed last night ?
barcabhoy says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 09:07
“…I don’t underestimate for a second the problems this will bring. I know it’s not going to be a case of no season book income, and things resolve themselves quickly and easily. However it’s a necessary first step”.
——————-
Agree wholeheartedly with your assessment and sentiments. I was thinking last night; what if the Rangers fans did abandon season tickets and just done a walk up. That way they would still be supporting their club but they would be in control of the revenue. It seems to me the spivs just can’t beleive they’ve found a business that no matter how much they butcher the customer, their loyalty can still be guaranteed. It is the golden goose that cannot be killed.