A Blog by James Forrest for TSFM
I am a socialist, and as a socialist I believe in the fundamental goodness of people. Some people find that hard to believe when they read the stuff I write.
I published my first novel recently, on politics and the corrupting nature of it, and it is a deeply cynical book, a book where no-one has clean hands come the end. What has surprised some of those who’ve read it is that I didn’t focus on the lies and smears of the right, but the hypocrisy and deceit of those who claim to be of the left.
Corruption, you see, doesn’t respect political boundaries or points of view. It’s like rainwater. It finds every crack, and gets in there.
My political beliefs revolve around two apparently paradoxical elements; the belief in the inherent decency of people and the need for a strong, and powerful, state. I believe the second underpins the first, and this brings me into conflict with a lot of people, some on the left and some on the right. Too many people see the state as inherently evil, as something that interferes too much in the lives of ordinary people. As something suffocating.
Yet the state exists to protect us. It exists to provide a safety net. It exists to regulate and to oversee. If the state is made up of bad people, if the gears of society are captured by those with malicious or selfish intent, the results are obvious; war, corruption, chaos.
The vast majority of our problems in the modern age can be neatly summed up in two lines from Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming”, which I used to open my novel. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”
We live in a time when those who are protecting their own interests have assumed such power that they’ve cowed the rest of us. They have become a law unto themselves. They have changed the nature of the game, because they have sapped our will to the extent some barely put up a fight anymore. The weak get weaker, and the strong use their strength to crush the rest even more. It is a vicious struggle, a downward spiral.
Society is held together not only by the endeavour and common interests of its citizens but by a collection of laws. We elect the people who make those laws. They do so in our name, and we can remove that right every four years. That is a powerful thing, and we do not appreciate it enough. The present corruption exists because we allow it to exist.
The people around me continue to puzzle over my uncommon interest in the affairs of a football club on the west of Glasgow. My own club plays in the east end. I tell those who ask that my primary interest in the goings-on at the club calling itself Rangers is no longer about football; how could it be, after all? With promotion this year they are still a full two divisions below us, emasculated, skint, weak and unstable. If we were fortunate enough to draw them in cup competition the match would be over, as a tie, by the halfway point … in the first half.
In footballing terms they are an utter irrelevance.
Rangers is more than a football club to me. They are a symbol. Their unfolding calamity is an on-going outrage. What is happening there, what is being allowed to happen, is an offense to decency. It is a stain on the face of our country.
In short, it is a scandal. It is a scandal without parallel in sport.
Yet it’s not just a sports story either. If it was, I might not be so focussed on it. What is happening at Rangers is a colossal failure of governance. It is a damning indictment against the very people who are supposed to oversee our game. It is a disgraceful abrogation of responsibility from those at the top, those who claim to be “running things.”
If this is not a failure of governance it is a result of corruption at the heart of our national sport. It says they are bought and paid for, and I will say no such thing here.
So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. We’ll say instead that what they are is weak, indecisive, inept and disconnected from reality.
It reminds me of our political class, which has become insular and ignorant about what the public wants, and what it needs. It’s not a wonder parties like UKIP can achieve national vote shares of 25% at local elections. Nigel Farage strikes me as a dog-whistle politician, the kind who knows how to appeal to a select group of voters. He is little different to Charles Green, the man who beguiled Rangers fans into handing over large amounts of money, because he was “standing up for the club.” It is easy to do what he did, easy to do what Farage is doing.
Real leadership requires toughness. Say what you like about the Tories, but they have that in spades. Yeats was right about the worst being full of passionate intensity. Green was. Farage is. Cameron and Osborne personify it in their political outlook.
It is easy to be cowed by blunt force politics, and by “tough talking Yorkshire men” and venomous speeches about “strivers and skivers.” The politics of divide and conquer is the oldest form of politics there is, and it’s no surprise to see it practiced by some of the vested interests in the game here in Scotland. Yet, lest we forget … something significant happened last year. The maligned and the ignored, the weak and the voiceless found something they never realised they had. They discovered that, in a very real sense, the power was in their hands.
Last year, the fans rose up when the governing bodies and the media went all-out to save Rangers from the self-inflicted wounds caused by a decade of cheating, malpractice and ineptitude. I have no problem calling that what it was.
What happened at Rangers seemed incredible, but it was all too predictable, and some of us had been talking about it for years before it hit. The Association seemed caught in the headlights but it would amaze me if they really were as insular and ignorant as they appeared. They must have known how bad the outlook was for Rangers. They just chose to ignore it.
They were aided and abetted by a thoroughly disreputable media, a collection of cowards and compromisers, charlatans and frauds, masquerading as journalists, but who long ago laid aside any claim to be bold investigators and settled for commenting on events as they unfolded. More often than not, with their ill-informed opinions, sometimes due to weaknesses in intellect and others wilfully ignorant, they failed even in that.
Entire newspapers became PR machines for crooks and swindlers. They aided in the scam because they didn’t do their jobs, some because they were lazy, some because they were incompetent and others because they wanted a seat at the table and were willing to sacrifice whatever integrity they once had in exchange for one.
That all of this was embraced by the Rangers fans is amazing to me. They trusted when they should have been asking questions. They closed their eyes, covered their ears and sang their battle tunes at the top of their voices so they wouldn’t have to hear anything they didn’t like. As incredible as I found it then, and still find it now – and now, even more so, when they have already seen the results of it once – I find it pathetic too, and I do feel pity for some of them.
A lot of these people are genuine football fans, and nothing more. They have no interest in the phony narrow nationalism, or the over-blown religion, or the notion of supremacy which manifested itself in a ludicrous statement from McCoist when interviewed recently on Sky.
Some of the Rangers fans look at their team of duds, kids and journeymen, they look at a boardroom of cowards and crooks, they look at a failing manager in his first (and last) job in the game and at a dark future and are not in the least bit impressed by, or interested in, the chest-out arrogance espoused in those ridiculous words “we are the people.” They know full well that their present crisis was made by men like McCoist, and they understand that pretentious posturing is not an act born of strength, but a scrambling around in the gutter, and a symptom of weakness.
They understand their position, and they hate it. And because they care about Rangers, because they value the club, because they cherish those things that made it a great Scottish institution, they want that back. They understand that before the Union Jack waving, Sash singing, poppy wearing, Nazi saluting, Orange element became the public face of their support Rangers meant something else, and that, above all things, is what pains them the most.
People do not hate Rangers. When the country appeared to turn its back last year, they were turning the back on favouritism and the bending of rules. Yet it would be a lie to say that there is not an element of dislike in the gleeful mockery of many rival fans.
But they don’t hate Rangers either. They hate the version of it around which a certain section of the support continues to dance. They hate the version which hates, and so too do many, many, many Rangers supporters, and they definitely deserve better.
David Murray chose not to openly challenge that version. Indeed, he encouraged certain strands of it to flourish and grow, with his “Britishness Days” and his effort to turn the club into the “team that supports the troops.” Other clubs have done as much, if not more, for the British Army than the one that plays out of Ibrox. Other clubs have given more money. Other clubs have lent their support to those on the front lines. They just chose to do it with respect, and with class, and with dignity. They chose to do it in private, understanding that there eventually comes a tipping point between looking after the ends of the soldiers and using them to promote your own.
The army has not battened on to Rangers. Rangers has battened on to them, and although it is unclear when an altruistic motive became darker, what started out as a gesture of solidarity is now used to entrench division and promote a notion of superiority.
Craig Whyte took over from Murray and immediately understood the lure of the “dog whistle.” He knew too that the media would accept whatever he told them, without question, and as he spoke up for “Rangers traditions” he made sure the lunatic fringe was well onside. He met face to face with the hard-core extremists in the support first and made them his praetorian guard. They spoke up for him until the day the club entered administration.
So, whereas Murray pandered to them and Whyte used them to further his own ends, it was only a matter of time before someone suggested to Charles Green that he could use the same tactics to win over the support. He went even further and blatantly promoted and encouraged this mind-set, and stoked the hate and nonsense to frightening new heights. The same people who cheered Whyte to the rafters jumped on board the Big Blue Bus and the results are clear.
Through all of it, the ordinary Rangers fan has seen his club buffered against the rocks, battered, broken, smashed to smithereens and sunk. Now there’s a big hole in the side of the lifeboat, and they are terrified that further tragedies await.
They are right to be concerned. Much of the media is still not telling them what they need to know. The people in charge of their club – the owners who have lied, the former hack who covered up the truth about Whyte and now acts as a mouthpiece for Green, the “club legends” who are content to sup with the devil and take his greasy coin when they should be standing toe-to-toe with the fans – are trying to silence those members of the press who do have facts to present.
How many times now have media outlets been banned from Ibrox for daring to report the truth? The manager who demanded the names of a committee last year defends those inside the walls who are desperate to keep secret the things that are going on. He is either an unprincipled coward, or he is, himself, bought and paid for. The fans suffer for it.
The “inconvenient truth” is still being kept from them, and this denies them any chance to play an active role in their club. Indeed, it is all too possible that they’ve passed a point of no return, and that their club is heading for a new liquidation event and it can no longer be stopped.
In either case, their power has been eroded to the point at which they must feel they have nothing left to do but stand back and watch what happens next.
They are wrong. I am a socialist. I believe in the inherent good of people. I think the ordinary decent Rangers fans are the only people left who can save their club … and the means by which they will do it is as simple as it could be.
They must stand up for “big government.” They must embrace the need for a “strong state.” They must lobby the SFA, and they must trust the SFA and they must get the SFA to follow its own rules and thereby save them from any further harm.
There is a tendency amongst some Celtic fans to see our governing bodies as pro-Rangers. If it is true then those running our game are ruining Scottish football without benefiting the thing they love more. The incalculable harm that has been done to Rangers in the last 20 some months is a direct result of the subservient media and the willingness of the football authorities to be “deaf, dumb and blind.” Those who believe this has actually helped the Ibrox club have not been paying attention in class. It has irrevocably scarred them, and it may yet have played a hand in destroying them once and for all, as a force if not as a club entirely.
For years, the SFA sat and did nothing as a club in their association operated a sectarian signing policy. They did nothing whilst the fans sang sectarian songs. In their failure to act they strengthened those elements of the Rangers support, instead of isolating, alienating and eventually helping to eliminate those who saw that club as a totem pole of division and hate. Their failure over EBT’s, and their lack of scrutiny, led to one of the greatest scandals in the history of sport, and I say that with no equivocation at all. The testimony of their registrations officer in the Lord Nimmo Smith investigation was a disgrace and in years to come it will rank as one of the most disreputable and damaging moments in the association’s history.
The most egregious failures of all were the failures in the so-called “fit and proper person” tests, which allowed first Whyte and then Charles Green to assume controlling positions at Ibrox. They will pass the buck and say the responsibility lies with the club itself, in much the same way as they are content to let the club investigate itself at the present time, but any neutral who looks at this stance knows it is unprincipled and spineless. It’s like letting the defence set the terms at a trial. It is foxes investigating the chicken coop.
It is a blueprint for corruption, and a recipe for disaster.
It is now too late for the SFA to declare Green “unfit”, as it was too late when they finally slapped that title on Craig Whyte. He and his allies own Rangers, and they control its destiny. They can push the club to the wall if they choose, in the final extremity, if that gets them what they want. The time for changing that is past. The damage has already been done. The barbarians are not at the gates. They are inside the walls, and sacking the city.
The SFA will be forced to punish Rangers for the sins of the owners, for the second time in as many years, and whilst it is right that the club face up to that, all the better to send a message to other clubs and other owners, the SFA cannot be allowed to slither off the hook here as though this was none of their doing. Green will skip off into the sunset. Craig Whyte has yet to pay his fine. These people never cared about Scottish football and they don’t care now.
The SFA are supposed to. Our governing body is supposed to govern, for the good of the whole game, and not as a support system for a single club. What they have allowed to happen on their watch is absolutely shameful and if the people responsible were men at all, with any sense of accountability, they would resign en masse.
They can pretend ignorance, but only the truly ignorant would accept that. Craig Whyte was not inside Ibrox a week before RTC and other sites were dismantling his entire business history, with some of the people here doing the work the SFA would not. Whyte himself claims to have made the governing bodies aware of the scale of what was facing the club, and they did nothing at all. Heads should have rolled a year ago.
In October of last year, on this very site, I posted an article in which I wrote:
“Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.
To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.”
There are times when it is fun to be right, but this is not one of them. It is dispiriting and disquieting to have been so on the nose. It scares the Hell out of me, as someone who loves football in this country, to have seen this matter clearly when the people running our game apparently either did not or chose to ignore very real, very obvious, concerns. The Internet Bampots had no special insight or access to information that was denied those at the SFA. We just weren’t prepared to ignore it and pretend that it wasn’t there. There was too much at stake.
I have become convinced that things will never change until the Rangers supporters join us in demanding the full and unabridged truth here. They need to come out from under the bed, and confront their fears. They need to be willing to take the consequences, so that their club can emerge clean from this, and start again, with all this behind them.
And it can all happen with one simple thing. The application of the rules.
The existence of laws comes down to a simple principle; they protect society from those elements within it who are interested only in their own selfish ends. We may cry out at those rules and regulations we see as “restrictive”, but the law was not made to restrict our freedoms but to protect them. Had the SFA years ago acted against Rangers sectarian signing policy, and the songs from the stands, the club would not have mutated to the point where there was no help on hand when they needed it the most. Let’s not kid ourselves about this; Whyte and Green were only able to grab control because the club itself has a dreadful image which put off respectable and responsible buyers. The SFA could have helped change that perception years ago and did nothing.
The SFA could have conducted its own investigation into who Craig Whyte was. They could have asked David Murray for full disclosure when he was running up £80 million of debt, a sum of money that is beyond belief for a single club in a small provincial backwater league. Had they had the guts to do that the club would never have spent itself into oblivion and forced the hand of Lloyds, which led indirectly to their ignominious end.
The SFA could have fully investigated Charles Green and the means by which he took control, instead of rushing through a license. His emergence at the last minute was transparently suspicious and designed to force them into a quick decision, but they did not have to bow to that pressure by making one, without being in possession of the facts, as it is now 100% clear they were not.
Had they asked for every document, had they insisted on legal affidavits and personal securities from investors (and this would have been perfectly legitimate and is common place in other licensing areas) none of this would have come to pass. After Craig Whyte they had a moral responsibility to the rest of the game to get this one right and their failure is without parallel in the history of Scottish football.
As the club hurtles towards a new abyss, names are cropping up which should send a shudder down the spines of every honest, genuine supporter of not only Rangers but every team in the land. The SFA claims that a strong Rangers is essential for the sake of Scottish football, but they have been extraordinarily lax in protecting that club, and therefore the game, from destructive elements. Craig Whyte and Charles Green had dubious personal histories, and the acquisition of the club itself was mired in controversy and scandal. Yet it was allowed.
Neither Green nor Whyte were known to have operated outside the law, yet neither was worthy of trust or stood up to scrutiny. Neither man should ever have been granted the status as fit and proper persons to assume a role in our national sport, and if it is true of them what can we say about the three men who are, presently, being touted as the Great White Hopes for a bright, new Rangers future; Dave King and the Easdale brothers?
King recently cut a deal with the South African government over an on-going dispute over taxes. In other words, he pled guilty and accepted the central plank of their argument; that for years he was engaged in wilfully with-holding vast revenues from their Treasury. The media does not like to put it like that, and the SFA seems willing to ignore it utterly, and this would be scandalous enough. But it does not stop there. HRMC rules – as well as the SFA’s own governance documents – actually bar him from serving on the board of the new club.
Last but not least, aside from being an admitted tax cheat, King is also awaiting trial in South Africa, having been indicted for corruption, forgery and fraud – 300 charges in total. Yet as recently as last week, we were told that the Association was willing to look at him and consider representations from his lawyers. This is almost beyond belief.
If Dave King’s position is untenable, and he is yet to be convicted of a crime, what can we say about the position of the Easdale’s? One of the two brothers, Sandy, has already served jail time. He is a convicted criminal, a fraudster nonetheless, who’s “victim” was the same Treasury who are appealing one case involving the old club and liquidated it entirely over another. This is precisely the kind of “businessman” the fit and proper person test was supposed to weed out, and if the SFA holds its nose here the reek will stink out the halls at Hampden for decades. If King or the Easdale’s are judged fit and proper, then who exactly is the test for? What exactly do you have to do to fail it? How do we explain the existence of laws, when these are not applied?
Pascal says “Law without force is impotent.” The SFA’s weakness has allowed one version of Rangers to destroy itself, and has allowed an existential risk to another. If the next power at Rangers resides in South Africa or Greenock I can say with some certainty that the Association is engaged in an even more dangerous roll of the dice, because the surfacing of fresh scandal will be an ever present risk, and will be of the sort no-one will survive.
The damage to Scottish football will take years to heal. The Scottish game has been through enough trauma. It does not need more. It barely survived the last calamity to hit Rangers. The rest of us should not be forced to pay the price of the next one.
The greater damage will be done to Rangers itself. If the Green crisis ends in another collapse – as it well might; another administration event is a certainty, and another liquidation is a much more likely prospect than it was before 14 February 2012 – the club will once again have to start from the bottom, and this time the reputational damage will be impossible to repair. The club faces internal strife, sporting sanctions, and criminal investigations. The last takeover might be declared a fraud. the Whyte takeover will almost certainly be. The share issue might be invalid, as well as criminal, and the people involved may well end up in jail. Lawsuits could follow from investors, there could be as yet unknown consequences from the Upper Tier Tax Tribunal (thank you Brogan Rogan for pointing out what those might be) and a host of other issues.
Rangers fans must be the loudest voices here. How do you want the world to view your club in years to come? Do you want one to be proud of, or one forever associated with the shame and disgrace of these days gone by? The one which bailed out on its tax obligations. The one with supporters who disgrace your very name. The one which allowed Whyte and Green to take you to the cleaners and send you to the wall. The one which handed over control to one convicted criminal and another awaiting trial. Do you want to be reborn clean, or mired in the muck?
David Murray destroyed your financial stability. He made it so no bank would issue you a line of credit and no investor of note wanted to buy. Craig Whyte liquidated you. Charles Green has cast the future of the Newco into doubt and acted in a manner which has annihilated your credibility with the financial markets for decades to come.
Between these three men, they have taken everything from you, and the press and the people who run the game here, as well as some of your own blindly ignorant fans, have allowed them to do all this and more. Now they conspire to hand the keys to Ibrox to other men of questionable character, who will wreck further havoc on the reputation of the club.
The Scottish Football Association has damaged the game it was supposed to protect, but above all else their greatest failure of governance was a failure to protect one of its biggest clubs from its own excesses and those of its owners.
Rangers fans, the SFA have betrayed your trust, more than the trust of any other club. What you must insist on now is full disclosure and transparency from the powers that be in Hampden. The SFA has to end the charade of allowing your club to handle this in-house. They must hand everything over to an outside agency – whether a legal one, or a footballing body like UEFA – and they must demand co-operation and answers, and threaten to withhold the license if they don’t get them.
You must not be afraid of that. You must embrace it. The men with their hands on the gears at Ibrox are motivated by money, and nothing more. If the license is withdrawn their “investments” are worthless. They cannot risk that.
You must demand that the rules on fit and proper persons are applied, and where necessary even made stronger, to prevent your club falling into unclean hands. You must demand that they protect your reputation from further damage, by getting this all out there and acting accordingly, even if that means your club does not play football for at least a year.
You must be willing to suck it all up, knowing that what will emerge is a Rangers which has been cleansed and moves forward with honour, and dignity, led by custodians who treasure it rather than those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
The Rangers Standard has recently emerged as a genuine voice for those in your support who are sick and tired of what Rangers has become, and want it restored to something that is worthy of the love and respect in which you hold it. On that website, there are discussions about the kind of club you seek to be and about whether the institution of Rangers is about more than just football.
If that’s how you feel about it then you know it is about more than how many titles the club can claim, about more than just results on the park, about more than just the game. Rangers, like Celtic, is an idea. It has to be something you are proud of.
I am a socialist, but one with a fevered imagination and a tendency to write very dark things. This piece won’t have been good reading for some of you (perhaps all of you haha!) but I think there’s more hope in here than in other things I’ve written.
In spite of everything that’s come to pass, I still believe. I believe in Scottish football. I believe in our system of football governance, even if those who are working in it are failing on some level.
In society, as much as we strain against them, laws exist for our protection. To fail to enforce them is to leave us at the mercy of those elements who would do us harm. The rules of football ensure the protection of all clubs, not just a few.
The failure to enforce the rules has never had graver consequences than here in Scotland. The irony is that bending and breaking them has hurt the one club those violations were designed to help. It cannot be allowed to happen again.
The rules must be applied without fear or favour.
The best must find their conviction, and their passionate intensity once more.
James is a co-editor of the On Fields of Green Blog http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/
barcabhoy says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 11:30
BRTH
IF the motivation is to ensure no Whytewash by Pincent Mason, and I am not suggesting as I am sure out were not, that they would be party to such a thing. In any circumstances and more especially in a publicly quoted company. If that was the motivation, then surely the obvious thing to do is to email Pincent’s with the evidence .
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I have the feeling that may have already been done but when you also release it publicly that makes sure there that the info is treated in the professional manner which I’m sure it would have been anyway.
There are also all these pesky internet bampots who will be emailing the likes of D&Ps American owners, BDO, Lord Hodge, the Insolvency Practitioners Association, the Guide Dog Association and all and sundry to ensure that no one can say later – ah but we didn’t know. Of course the bampots might just ignore the SFA because everyone knows they are a lost cause.
Greenockjack,
I have already posted that Whyte must be absolutely panicking just now. I think that says all that’s needed about whether Whyte or a Whyte associate has any control over this.
The RTC thing in my view is nonsense. The perfect way to get maximum exposure for this would have been through the RTC website.
JC
On Tom English, all I see is a journalist who writes some good articles and other not so good articles, speaks sense of occasion and howls at the moon on others.
A journalist that wrt pecking order is perhaps Top Six but not going for the CL anytime soon.
The one thing I haven´t really noticed is him being particularly bothered one way or the other about nationality and how it comes accross whilst interacting with the public.
john clarke says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 11:15
Forres Dee (@ForresDee) says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 10:36
“…That won’t be Greater Strathclyde police but a force from south of the border!.”
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Strathclyde’s finest have not got a particularly good record of impartiality in matters concerning the dead club.
There may be even less impartiality in the police regime being brought about by the creation of the unified Police Service of Scotland , which will be( is already?) under more immediate and direct control of him wot had conversations with HMRC touching on the tax problems of that dead club.
Conversations that he refused, incidentally, to make public.
——————————————
Greater Strathclyde was my obtuse reference to my feeling that the unified police service is and always will be, by simple need caused by population density, skewed towards the central belt and Glasgow in particular.
Ecobhoy
IMO Richard Wilson is the one of the few journalists up here that will go on to better things, probably down south.
Barca
I disagree that the RTC website would be perfect.
I think with the amount of material being leaked and the increasing popularity of Twitter, it makes perfect sense to use this medium to drip the info.
You then have sites such as this one to analyse the data, with some of the old RTC posters dropping in.
It is a theory, you are free to disagree with it.
You say CW and associates haven´t any control, but who do you think has ?
http://www.gersnet.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/138-fake-pretend-simulate-deceive-and-defraud?
is this gersnet describing any and every “director” type
https://twitter.com/RealPaulMurray/status/335703748452171776/photo/1
greenockjack says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 11:24
In summary, I believe the leaks are being managed by someone/small group that is or is very similar in make-up to RTC. That they are managing Charlotte and the leaks. Whether CW or someone close to CW retains a degree of control, I´m not sure.
Feel free to disagree. But who do you think it is and what is their motives ?
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The identity of Charlotte Fakes will probably be protected no matter who she is and no matter what her agenda or that of a wider group actually is.
It could be that she intends to reveal her identity at some stage and her being coy is just part of the whole mystique to encourage interest.
I don’t know AT personally but he appears to be a professional journalist and I would seriously doubt that even if ‘blocked’ from doing a story that he would react by faciltitating or ‘leaking’ the story outwith his own news organisation. When a journo meets a block in the story – either through legalling or whatever – they just dig harder to get it over the hurdles. I am of course referring to a real journalist and not the typical Sports hack employed by the SMSM.
I accept there is an argument about the source ‘identity’ which affects the story because the thing a journalist hates most is not being able to figure out what the motive of a ‘leaker’ is because that can set them up for a serious professional fall.
In a sense it doesn’t matter what the leaker’s motive actually is as long as you know what it is – then you can build in safeguards or make certain enquiries that ensures balance and objectivity is maintained. Even if we knew Charlotte’s identity that is no guarantee that it would provide us with the answer to her motivation.
Personally I don’t really care what Charlotte’s identity is but rather the provenance of the documents and the only way I can work on that is to look at what is released and see how it fits with what we know is true and what we know is false. However, I do see the dilemma faced by journos and editors but it’s very easy to get round this if they want.
However, one thing every professional always bears a heavy responsibility for is that a story they write might financially bring down a commercial organisation and cause innocent people to lose their jobs. It may well be that they have been briefed that this is a possibility with the Charlotte material and that briefing may well be genuine. That coupled with the uncertainty of the source and her, or other people’s, motives might well be causing the delay but the dam will break.
Sometimes things just aren’t as open and shut as we would like them to be or happen in the timescale we desire.
twopanda says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 21:46
“What’s the point of paying…”
—————
mullach says:
Saturday, May 18, 2013 at 22:00
“Fees?”
—————–
twopanda, I know you are a stalwart poster on here and don’t wish to appear discourteous. My responser was not “divisive distraction”, just a simple, top of the head, gut reaction response.
I don’t have the corporate knowledge that some on here display but I have worked in a few businesses and seen a spectrum of approaches. I was responding based on the level of knowledge I possess. This may appear limited to your perception and undoubtedly we are all limited to some extent but everyone potentially has a contribution to make or an observation to account and I am no different.
From reading posters on here (including yourself), I have gained a bit more insight into how businesses can operate. So let me expand a little on my very brief response to your questions in an effort to smooth over any ruffled feathers.
There was a link yesterday to an article (was it a 100bjd piece) that gave an analysis of share values for companies related to this saga. Most of the share values had plummeted from their offer prices and many of the businesses concerned were either insolvent or close to it. It portrayed the Alternative Investment Marrket as a collar and tie version of Ebay.
Forgive me Ebay disciples if you are watching but some of the stuff on Ebay is little more than junk. There are a lot of useful transactions taking place but some people treat it like bingo. They want to ‘win’ a purchase. Sometimes I suspect they don’t even need the item they are trying to ‘win’, they just view it as a bargain for some distorted reason. They’ll probably keep it for a wee while then put it back on Ebay hoping to make a profit. Like most gamblers they will likely lose in the medium to long term even if they do have the odd ‘success’. There’s an antiques show on daytime telly like this. People spend hours to make a couple of quid profit. Its not a business it’s a pastime. These punters make a market for the antiques dealers who may have a whole shop full of crap that can be made viable if enough dupes roll through the door in search of that fabled ‘find’.
So back to the AIM. There’s some (a lot, I don’t know), business being done there but there are other enterprises that possibly will never attempt to be part of the productive economy. They just offer odds (share price offer) on a particular company increasing in share value. Those less savvy may well pick up some of those shares as a punt. Even the more savvy may take a punt on an outsider just to balance their portfolio (some odds on, a few long odds).
Now the dodgy copanies that are never going to produce anything are just there to hoover up punters money based on a glossy prospectus. What happens to the money that is bet on their IPO?
Some of it pays for the glossy brochure.
Some of it goes to AIM to pay the ‘entrance fee’.
Some of it goes to the lawyers cos you need someone ‘noted’ to convey the business.
Some of it goes on the Cenko’s type guy’s (I’m tempted to refer to them as Nomads).
Etc. Etc. Etc.
What’s left goes to the spiv who concocted the scam in the first place.
So all this betting sustains a market that keeps people in jobs. That is what I was getting at.
Looking at my explanation now I can see that one word was probably insufficient; possibly misleadingly so.
In fact, I’ve forgotten your original questions!
Why does anyone other than CF have to have any control ?
People are looking for conspiracies and deflecting (deliberately in some cases) away from the content.
The information is clearly genuine, or for the uber cautious, very convincing ( Journo speak for genuine)
Why and who aren’t important , what’s important is what the information is telling us.
That is that Whyte, Green,Ahmad and others are conniving , scheming spivs, who have done Rangers real and continuing damage.
None of which would have been possible without the role played by David Murray.
The information should be welcomed by all, particularly by Rangers supporters , who’s only hope just now is that Malcolm Murray lasts long enough to ensure the report gets publicized
On Richard Wilson
He is going to look extremely foolish , if/ when Stockbridge is exposed .
chipm0nk says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 10:26
If you’re referring to Tom’s most recent article, he certainly did not say “Rangers “won” the big tax case”.
However, I think you are illustrating very well the points he was making in the first part of the article, in that any new Rangersy revelations are passed through a Celticy filter on the sites that discuss them the most. Such as this one.
Accuracy and fairness can be lost in the process of Celtic fans’ parsing every new nugget of information in terms of how it can feed their wish fulfillment of the Ibrox club’s fate. I am pleased Tom English points this out. I thought his article was good, and found nothing to object about based on my knowledge or understanding of events.
For longer analysis, I commend Taysider’s (funny that!) post as well as BRTH’s.
Forres Dee (@ForresDee) says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 11:43
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0
Rate This
john clarke says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 11:15
Forres Dee (@ForresDee) says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 10:36
“…That won’t be Greater Strathclyde police but a force from south of the border!.”
———–
There may be even less impartiality in the police regime being brought about by the creation of the unified Police Service of Scotland , which will be( is already?) under more immediate and direct control of him wot had conversations with HMRC touching on the tax problems of that dead club.
Conversations that he refused, incidentally, to make public.
——————————————
UK HMRC will not discuss anyone’s specific tax arrangements with a 3rd party, unless they are an agent and a 64-8 has been submitted. HMRC will not make any such discussion public.
Forres Dee (@ForresDee) says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 11:43
“Greater Strathclyde was my obtuse reference to my feeling that the unified police service is and always will be, by simple need caused by population density, skewed towards the central belt and Glasgow in particular”.
————
Forres, I got that the frst time round. You ruined the irony for me by explaining the joke. Keep it up and if we’re too thick to see you’re thrust then I’m sure there will be those that are able to discern your intent.
chipm0nk says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 11:36
‘..however it is the lord Advocates role to ensure they are enforced.’
—
Yes,indeed it is.
But political influence is more easily exerted over one single police chief than over 8 relatively independent Chief Constables.
Direct control of a national police force has ever been key to the ‘success’ of single-party/ dictatorial regimes.
The Tom English Article is the first piece with an agenda to get Charlottes name and deeds out in the wider public space. It’s easy for us on the forum to forget that most football fans pick up their information from the sports pages and from word of mouth down the pub.
Although i don’t agree with the tone of the article suggesting its entirely Celtic fans who are glorifying this damaging information, its too easy for him to do this. All he is doing is mentioning the information to anyone who can be interested to go and check for themselves. For those who do they will probably see that the twitter account is mostly populated by a large majority of fans who have joined from the huddleboard or kerrydale street. English is simple covering his arse as he knows that people will hold his Nationality against him beliving that he will have leanings to a certain club.
He is not the only journalist to do this and wont be the last one to do so either.
Anyway now that its becoming mentioned in print, the football phone in shows will have punters talking and journalists basically doing the same as English. If, but’s and maybes simply because they know that if they actively pursue the real story then their careers are effectively over.
I wonder if Greetin faced “Side letters” Dawwel actually knew the real story about the phonix club plans and dirty deals etc and knew eventually that it would come out in the wash, maybe even he was sick of having to lie all the time to be one of the crowd, possibly why he decided to bugger off to the other side of the world and forget about everything.
redetin says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 12:10
‘.UK HMRC will not discuss anyone’s specific tax arrangements with a 3rd party, unless they are an agent and a 64-8 has been submitted. HMRC will not make any such discussion public.’
—–
Maybe.
But, then, the essence of wee Eck’s call would simply have been along the lines of –
Eck: ” Hello, First Minister here.
Can I have a word about this tax problem?
HMRC: Sorry, cannot comment or discuss the tax affairs of a tax-payer (or, indeed, non-tax-payer”.
No need to be coy and tight-lipped about it, eh?
Is this what you would expect as the office of an eminent QC handling multi mil claim ……
http://flic.kr/p/ekqT3n
Mind you, has lower floor Bistro/Conference facilities …….
Psst …… Hey …… Craig …..
That Harlot claims your legals are after her ……….
Well, ………..know the office of your QC …….. you know ….. the eminent one (ahem) …..
Can save you some readies here …… I know it’s short at mo (shhhhh !) ………
Get them to pop two door ‘s down ……. just ask for ‘C’ …….
http://flic.kr/p/ekycm1
Psst again ………. I think it might also explain where all this stuff is coming from ……… !
Cheers for now ……… ‘N’
I promise U all ……….. this IS NOT Photoshopped ………
You just can not make it up ………………..
I’ve been rollin around all morning …………. it hurts ! ……..
newtz
Barca
The question of who Charlotte is and what her motives are is surely a valid one for this board and has been covered by many.
I put forward a theory and others can disagree, offer their own or ignore it.
It´s not deliberate deflection and neither should one individual be telling the rest what to post about.
Simply don´t answer my question on who you think it is and move on.
FWIW I agree that the material seems genuine.
I also agree that the sooner the shadow of the likes of Green and Ahmad are gone from Ibrox, the better.
As for David Murray, I wonder if one of Charlottes first leaks (e-mail exchange between Jack Irvine and Craig Whyte in August 2009) will be very significant if further leaks help fill in the blanks.
Forgetting team colours, I think RW will have a very good career because he´s good at what he does and getting better.
jimlarkin says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 11:56
http://www.gersnet.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/138-fake-pretend-simulate-deceive-and-defraud?
is this gersnet describing any and every “director” type
=================================================================
There is much in the GersNet piece I would agree with, bits I sympathise with and some that have remnants of what helped bring their club to its knees. But, one thing for sure, it can’t have been easy to write the article and acknowledge some of the problems that exist.
But it’s a big step forward to see things like this being openly discussed and not just ignored as was the traditional stance. There is also a positive move by not just being prepared to follow a Leader but firmly identifying the actual solution could be held by the fans.
The one way to get rid of the spivs is to delay purchasing STs or pay on a walk-up basis which would also have the effect or lowering share prices and making it easier for a takeover. But this is a deadly game of poker and the spivs have lots of practice at it and an ability to influence events on AIM through their knowledge and experience of the system.
Personally I would never tell a supporter of another club, nor even one of my own, that they shouldn’t buy STs as I believe this is one strictly for the fans of a club and it needs to be a last resort because of the inherent dangers. But if Rangers is to ever have the chance of changing its fans must show that they aren’t dupes whose only use is to pour cash into a cow being milked to death by spivs.
Sadly John Brown and his integrity was chased away by the support who fell for the con and when you see what is being done to destroy Malcolm Murray on a personal level then I wonder if any honest Rangers man or group will rally the fans. As to Walter and Ally – they had their chance to provide the much-needed backing that Brown required and they walked down another road and abandoned him. I certainly would have no trust in them acting other than from self interest and expediency.
But these are issues and decisions for Bears to make and not for a Celtic supporter although I am obviously interested in the outcome not just as to how it might affect Celtic but, more importantly in many ways IMO, as to how it influences and affects Scottish Football.
If The SPL rules were being applied without fear or favour there is an extremely strong argument for Hearts having already suffered an insolvency event.
From the Tom English article
“What is bonkers about this latest Twitter phenomenon is that at least some of it has come from Craig Whyte, a man who Celtic people rightly viewed as a discredited chancer up until such time as he started leaking stuff that was damaging to Rangers. At that point he suddenly metamorphosed into a font of truth, a bloke you could take seriously – all because Celtic folk suddenly liked what he was saying.”
No Tom, we are not now saying CW is a Knight in shining armour or that he is telling the truth, what we are saying is that we KNEW this is what he was up to, we knew it was a con, we knew they were all chancers and spivs lining their own pockets
that NON of the MSM made any effort to discover this is to your own discredit
Now that CW is telling us that what we KNEW was true, we are not praising him, we are damning you!
Sadly Tom, you are amongst the best of a bad bunch of Scottish Sports hacks, and you are still bloody awful…that is the sad truth
I hope you are smart enough to realise that once this blows over, your industry is finished – as far as anyone reading about sport in your papers. So I hope you have a back up plan as the regular salary is ending soon
newtz says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 12:23
I posted late last night that the legal firm concerned only had £10k in the bank according to companies house last return. I then speculated that perhaps they were an agency type organisation that farmed out the work to proper legals. The QC mentioned in their letter was John Jarvis. Not sure if this is the guy.
http://www.3vb.com/barristers-John-Jarvis.html
It does seem a bit fishy I’d have to agree. Not particularly supportive of Whyte. the legal opinion (in which I am not at all well versed) did appear thorough calling up Rome I and Rome II concerning jurisdiction and other stuff that all seemed pertinent. Perhaps those with a legal background could comment on the advice that Whyte received. Surprised that none have undermined its credibility already if it was rubbish.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/142204728/Letter-on-Worthington-Claims-Final
I’m not sure the existence of the tanning shop is that significant. You’d struggle to take a photo of any high street without getting an estate agents and tanning shop in the shot.
I am really fed up of the MSM and their response to the drama at Govan. If anyone outwith the MSM questions or if any criticisms are raised concerning Sevco, you are automatically deemed to be a Celtic supporter. All supporters want the truth, accept that fact and deal with it. A disgraceful radio show (SSB) to a man last night agreed that Sevco were still Rangers and to them was not a big issue. In their opinion again it was Celtic fans who only challenged this.
IMO it is a big deal concerning newco/oldco debate as the most important part of any club as it is its history. The pundits all also know this,they are either scared to cause or attribute to social unrest or have another agenda. Liquidation is what it is and company and club are as one IMO.
Tom English having a go at the RTC in his article is shameful as the only issue that has not came to fruition is the verdict concerning FTTT. RTC stated that if Rangers won their appeal that HMRC would appeal and appeal as the evidence was overwhelming. So Tom time will tell.
Carry on with the good work Charlotte.
greenockjack says:
I think RW will have a very good career because he´s good at what he does and getting better.
===============================================================
You also enquired as to whether RW was good enough to work down south. I can’t really make that judgement as so much of that kind of move is dependent on personal circumstances rather than professional ones.
There is no doubt RW has good sources and tends to be measured in his approach but Scotland truly is a tiny country and being a star in this goldfish bowl is no guarantee of making it down south in the real mecca for sports journalists.
Of course with the state of The Herald’s circulation he may be left with no choice but to move whether he wants to or not.
I was a tad disappointed with his piece today which mentions just about everyone involved in the Rangers story but there isn’t a single quote in it – not even an unidentified source or sources close to.
The story was fine but missing a certain sparkle which could have been achieved by a mention of Charlotte but it’s getting to a dangerous stage for the MSM over Charlotte because if their readers cotton-on to Charlotte and her twittering and look at the site then they’ll think why has it taken so long for my paper to spot this.
Never mind the journalistic issues at work – there are also the commercial ones of how do you get customers to be happy with a pay-wall without exposing them to sites like this and even the Charlotte’s of the internet.
Returning to Richard he clearly identifies the importance of the Dave King scenario but why doesn’t he actually tell us whether he’s going to pass the SFA fit and proper test – I’m sure he has the contacts and knows the answer but it isn’t given. Instead we are treated to the non-news that his lawyers have broached the subject with the SFA.
But he has eased off the personal attack tack on Malcolm Murray and pointed to a possible way of him remaining on the board but only as a director and stepping-down as chairman with Cartmell goinf but he’s going anyway and declared it a couple of weeks ago.
I’m not getting at RW because I think he is a good journo but I feel sure he’s being constrained in what he can report but a great journalists find ways around their editor. So let’s hope that this week RW ups his game and joins the Greats 🙂
mullach says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 12:43
You’d struggle to take a photo of any high street without getting an estate agents and tanning shop in the shot.
————————————–
yep, …… but the office of your QC and two doors down ………… Fake It ……..
Charlotte has a Real sense of Humour ……….. she deserves the term …… Harlot ….. !
http://flic.kr/p/ekyAvJ
….. Now, what’s this TE thing all about ……. just off to read it …………. lol !
The Tom English article is here:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/tom-english-green-whyte-team-would-break-all-rules-1-2936494
It’s disappointing that a link to this has been intentionally omitted by previous posters. If you think the press is poor now, that’s as nothing if their revenue & readership falls even further.
Night Terror says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 12:10
Which Ibrox club are you talking about, the previous one or the new one.
Which fate are you talking about, the liquidation and death, or the current production of material demonstrating that they almost certainly lied to the SFA in order to get permission to play football in Scotland.
The old Rangers lied, cheated and stole. They have been found guilty of all three. Nothing Celticy about that, just facty.
The new club, which we are told “bought the history” seems to have bought the ethics and business practices as well. Or do you chose to ignore the current situation with regard Green, Whyte et al as it is too anti Rangersy.
Night Terror says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 12:10
If you’re referring to Tom’s most recent article, he certainly did not say “Rangers “won” the big tax case”.
———————————————————————————————————————————
I fully endorse your commendation of Taysider’s and BRTH’s analyses of TE’s piece but, at the risk of being accused of passing your comment through a Celticy filter, you appear to be indulging in a little “nugget parsing” of your own.
In the interests of the “accuracy and fairness” I would argue that the sentence “For two years there was certainty that Rangers would be found guilty of industrial-scale cheating, a prejudgment that was proven to be wrong.” can only be interpreted as ‘not saying that Rangers won the big tax case’ because of the inclusion of the phrase “industrial scale”. I’m also prepared to gloss over the fact that he seems to have forgotten that the ‘big tax case’ has not yet concluded because I wouldn’t want to be accused of dealing in Celticy semantics.
Night Terror says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 13:12
0 3 Rate This
The Tom English article is here:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/tom-english-green-whyte-team-would-break-all-rules-1-2936494
It’s disappointing that a link to this has been intentionally omitted by previous posters. If you think the press is poor now, that’s as nothing if their revenue & readership falls even further.
——————————————————————-
so what? they are increasingly becoming an irrelevance.
they need to make a decision – print accurate versions of events, you know, tell the TRUTH – or be shown up as incompetent hacks by internet bampots on daily basis.
truth is, if they write a good, accurate article, twitter and blogs will send it round the world faster than they could imagine and generate hits at the site and further revenue for the publisher.
But the more they mislead/print nonsense, they more they will be ignored.
truth is, the generation that rely on newspapers and radios for their news will probably be gone forever in 20-30 years.
the media need to adapt or die -it’s simply a matter of time.
lying won’t help them survive – whatever they decide to do going forward.
I will just add to the review of the Tom English article.
In my opinion it was the usual feed of ‘balanced ‘ reporting keeping all readers onside.It was poor,verging on tabloid reporting.
I think this blast from TE’s past might be one he would like to forget about – two years ago and he had Craig Whyte as the hero of the hour.
Perhaps why he’s a bit touchy now about the Celtic support. But for a supposedly clued-up journo how can’t he see that Celtic fans are just having a laugh by lauding CW – we knew long before TE what exactly CW was and we still know.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/tom-english-craig-whyte-s-rangers-takeover-bid-has-been-a-tortuous-process-1-1595764
“[It] is an indisputable fact that he (CW) has proven he has the funds to buy Murray’s shares and pay-off the debt owing to Lloyds Banking Group. As far as bona fides go, that’s not a bad start. Whyte has deposited 28m as proof of his financial clout. He has spent a large six-figure sum on lawyers and accountants and due diligence stretching back six months. He has said publicly, more than once, that he is committed to investing 25m over five years on new players. He has stayed in the game and has worked out a “mechanism” to deal with whatever HMRC may throw at the club. [ha ha how did that mechanism turn out Tom?]. He has stayed in the deal, also, despite the nasty little surprise of a 2.8m unpaid tax bill was discovered. He has hung around and inched things forward despite all of that and regardless of the two UEFA charges of sectarian chanting that are hanging over the club at present.”
Alastair Johnson is also slated for trying to warn the Rangers fans Whyte is a conman: “What is Johnston thinking? That Whyte will take control of the club and then go, “HaHa! Fooled ye all! I don’t have another bob to my name! We’re all going down in flames!”
I must credit JohnBhoy at Scotslawthoughts for that one which I had forgotten.
Jack Jarvis says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 13:27
The big tax case is no more concluded now than it was during that two year period. It is still under appeal, it is simply which party is appealing which has changed.
In fact if anything HMRC are ahead.
Consider, the majority of the case remains under appeal. However the minority which has now been concluded was actually won by HMRC, or more accurately lost by Rangers as it was they who were appealing.
So what we have is an ongoing appeal, with the parts already decided lost by Rangers.
That is the accurate position. However it didn’t fit with Mr English’s piece, so he re-interpreted the facts.
ecobhoy says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 13:36
That is just as good as “wealth off the radar”.
The CE on Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 12:35
If The SPL rules were being applied without fear or favour there is an extremely strong argument for Hearts having already suffered an insolvency event.
===================================
Care to explain, no rules (administration/insolvency) have been broken yet (UKIO are a bank with a security which has not been calked in and UBIG are an investment company who hold 79% in shares wh at this point have not been declared insolvent)
chipm0nk says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 13:40
Thanks for that, chipm0nk.
A wonderfully concise explanation of the current position which I will now memorise and quote every time someone tells me that “Rangers won the big tax case”
shares who at this point have not been declared insolvent) !!
Barcabhoy
Keep yer hand on the tiller mate.
An example of how easy it is to get sidetracked was SSB last night where Charlotte was at least mentioned with Hugh diving for legal cover. Jim Delahunt to his credit admitted the existence of Charlotte Fakes but callers strayed from it into the Rangers are deid debate. ( On which the panels ignorance of UEFA rules which contain NO 3 year ban for unaudited accounts or unpaid tax was manifestly evident and who also ducked on the TUPE question) thus smothering any drilling into what the leaks are suggesting.
Overall they suggest CW and CG were in cahoots and explain the strange administration where protecting creditors seemed a secondary objective.
Ive listened the tapes and it aint Mike Yarwood talking. Ive not dug into the spreadsheet but see CQN had a look.
What I did look at was the legal opinion that CW had a case for being due compensation for being shafted (did Green not actually say that on tape anyway?) .
On top of this was the admission by Keith Jackson that whatever was gathered by the share issue was down to its last £8 – £10m.
From both, putting myself in the SFAs shoes, I thought what risk am I taking that The Rangers will have a ground to play on or the liquidity to see next season through? If I say nothing, ignore licencing requirements on ground and finances and it all goes belly up what are the consequences for the SFA? Could we be liable? (and that is not to consider the other worry of investors wondering how the SFA granted a licence/membership last season that created the conditions for a share issue to proceed).
Now I accept that the legal opinion may not be sound but speculating on what the information might mean is not over excitement it is trying to work out responses to the problem.
Given the SFA clearly want Rangers supporters to stay in the game from a finance angle, the last thing they will want to consider is a refusal of permission to play. That leaves conditional permission and that could involve playing games elsewhere (Hampden would have been ideal but is booked for Commonwealth Games work) and operating to a realistic cost budget, which coincidentally playing in a smaller stadium eg Love St would force.
Solutions like this when first voiced risk being portrayed as the voice of The Rangers haters, but in time once the scale of the loss is digested and accepted, will be seen to be the voice of the reality no one wants to contemplate.
vladsmad says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 13:50
Re Insolvency events.
I take this from http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/35/section/121
===================
(3)An insolvency event occurs in relation to a company where—
(a)the nominee in relation to a proposal for a voluntary arrangement under Part 1 of the Insolvency Act 1986 submits a report to the court under section 2 of that Act (procedure where nominee is not the liquidator or administrator) which states that in his opinion meetings of the company and its creditors should be summoned to consider the proposal;
(b)the directors of the company file (or in Scotland lodge) with the court documents and statements in accordance with paragraph 7(1) of Schedule A1 to that Act (moratorium where directors propose voluntary arrangement);
(c)an administrative receiver within the meaning of section 251 of that Act is appointed in relation to the company;
(d)the company enters administration within the meaning of paragraph 1(2)(b) of Schedule B1 to that Act;
(e)a resolution is passed for a voluntary winding up of the company without a declaration of solvency under section 89 of that Act;
(f)a meeting of creditors is held in relation to the company under section 95 of that Act (creditors’ meeting which has the effect of converting a members’ voluntary winding up into a creditors’ voluntary winding up);
(g)an order for the winding up of the company is made by the court under Part 4 or 5 of that Act.
===================
Eco
If you go further back, Tom English gave us David Murray meeting up in a London hotel room with an interested party to sign the contracts on a deal to sell Rangers.
However just before signing the papers, DM asked prospective buyer what his plans were for taking Rangers forward. He didn´t consider them good enough for the club and pulled the deal.
That was pure undiluted spin in favour of DM which showed English in a bad light.
19/04/2011
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/tom-english-craig-whyte-s-rangers-takeover-bid-has-been-a-tortuous-process-1-1595764#.UZi_ZzbGKCQ.twitter
Precis:- C/O Kerrydale Street
“Whyte has deposited 28m as proof of his financial clout. He has spent a large six-figure sum on lawyers and accountants and due diligence stretching back six months. He has said publicly, more than once, that he is committed to investing 25m over five years on new players. He has stayed in the game and has worked out a “mechanism” to deal with whatever HMRC may through at the club. He has stayed in the deal, also, despite the nasty little surprise of a 2.8m unpaid tax bill was discovered. He has hung around and inched things forward despite all of that and regardless of the two UEFA charges of sectarian chanting that are hanging over the club at present.
Unless he’s a complete madman – spending millions on getting rid of Lloyds and Murray and then not bothering to invest in the business he has just bought – then we must assume that he is going to do what he says. He has hung his reputation on delivering what he has said. What is Johnston thinking? That Whyte will take control of the club and then go, “HaHa! Fooled ye all! I don’t have another bob to my name! We’re all going down in flames!”
Way to go Tom, Just reverse everything you said here:-
“What is bonkers about this latest Twitter phenomenon is that at least some of it has come from Craig Whyte, a man who Celtic people rightly viewed as a discredited chancer up until such time as he started leaking stuff that was damaging to Rangers. At that point he suddenly metamorphosed into a font of truth, a bloke you could take seriously – all because Celtic folk suddenly liked what he was saying.”
Auldheid re the 3 yr Euro ban nonsence on SSB
I am sure that the only Euro sanction given to RFC now deceased was 1yr for failing to provide audited accounts in time last season .TRFCI have never been banned from Europe as they have never been in Europe ,they have never been demoted from the SPL as they have never been in the SPL .
The MSM know these facts but continue to peddle their myths on a national media platform for the good of the newest club in the Scottish league .
I used to get angry at the way the MSM/LL refused to print any negative stories during the reign of the Mint but in the end their succulent lamb culture played a huge part in the death of RFC .
My belief is that to a man they know this whole clusterduck is a sham and a scandal but they are hoping by refusing to report on it they can limit the damage .Well it did not work last time round as the death of RFC was the worst case scenario ,then again if Sevco go the same way they can always just pretend it’s still RFC but there is only so many times you can feed the gullible with the
fairy tale of dogs bolloxs and the three teddy bears surely .
here’s hoping this time next yr their swapping their succulent lamb for some porridge
jimlarkin says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 11:58
Chris (Fury) Graham really is one of the Rangers’ fans worst enemies just now. He is convincing them that everything is fine, that people are lying about them and having a go because they are Rangers haters.
He reminds me of the man who jumped out of the 30th story of a building and is heard on the way down repeating “so far so good … so far so good … so far so good …”
Chris, you and the rest of the support really need to accept the truth of the situation. The club, whether you consider it a new one or the same old one, needs a root and branch solution.
To try to keep just patching things up is clearly not working. The club is a shambles from top to bottom, and the SFA / SPL / SFL have not helped you one bit. A real new start, with young players and realistic budgets would have served you much better. This pretence at keeping everything going has not worked, and you are back where you were before. Or you will be when the IPO money runs out.
Tell them the truth Chris, you would be serving them better. Telling them what they want to hear is just wrong.
I was thinking about the time that Chuck was pictured at love street….
My thinking is that before all the connections with CW and Chuck surfaced i’m thinking that a contingency plan was being put in motion. I think they knew that the fountain of liquidity was going to run dry sooner than planned as the float (with its quite strange and desperate timing) wasn’t as successful as they had hoped, even after all the the world against us angle to sucker many Rangers fans into giving more than they could probably afford.
I think a ground sharing deal was being mooted, as it is the closest stadium in relation to the costs available to the business. The Costs of repair at Ibrox and refitting are just too expensive for them to plough money into, and with cost cutting and downsizing staff numbers and security etc, the Stadium could have been mothballed until the commonweath games. Hampden would be too expensive even though the bears would fill the majority of the stadium, the rent wouldn’t justify the costs.
It’s a possibilty that Chuck was pushing the idea on as a real worst case senario on Gilmour on the condition he stimie the league reconstruction plans in the 12-12-18 format. Everyone and his dug knows that Chuck couldn’t justify season book increases as half of the teams would be from the 3rd division and it would still be classed as the bottom league.
In Gilmour’s case that was additional income for his club and the stadium would be in constant use generating a nice little earner for St Mirren, and of course favours would be remembered.
If things go south down ibrox way it could be a realistic option for them as there could be serious downsizing if the season books don’t shift in the numbers that they need
“Aha! but Rangers have freezed prices on season books some will cry”
Only because of the gesture across the city, their hand was forced.
They must dispise Peter Lawwell.
chipm0nk says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 13:22
Hold your horses there, chipm0nk.
The Ibrox club is exactly that – the football club that plays at Ibrox, irrespective of the whole newclub/oldclub palaver. I can’t be bothered differentiating between the two, but neither do I want to confuse by referring to it/them in such a way that the reader misunderstands to whom I refer, so “Ibrox Club” seems to do fine, whether one replaced the other, one is the same as its always been or the two are entirely unrelated yet near-identical clubs/companies/holding companies/collections of assets.
Picking up on a selection of “facts” does not address my point about a Celtic filter. And even then, there are valid questions regarding the facty items you did select. I’m not trying to excuse them and their behaviour, but I’m also not comfortable with any statement that is just inaccurate, albeit one that may turn out to be true in the course of time.
More generally, please bear in mind that just because I don’t agree with the most damning opinions or worst interpretations of the Ibrox club’s recent activities it doesn’t mean I approve, condone or support most of what appears to, or definitely has, gone on at Ibrox.
There are plenty of contributors on here very willing to pile in with condemnation of the Ibrox club and it’s various guises and staff – I don’t really have much more to contribute on that and don’t really see much need for it – but I do think a little reserve and detachment would not go amiss in some of the more fevered comments regarding the Ibrox club, for fear of breaking down one wall of bullsh*t erected at Ibrox only to replace it with another. If those who speak up for the Ibrox club often lack reason, that is no excuse to respond in kind. Truth and accuracy, scrupulously applied despite what one might wish or assume to be the truth, is better for all wouldn’t you say?
Overstating the copious sins of the Ibrox club does not help understanding or accuracy. They have given everyone enough already, don’t you think, without overegging the charge and risking the ultimate verdict of guilt as a result of an overambitious prosecution.
Tom English is basically towing the editorial line and no-one should give a modicum of credence to anything he writes, same goes for the rest of the MSM but it’s heartening to see Greenock Jack going through hoops – Charlotte has obviously rattled his cage in the same way is has with Toms editor too.
Greenock Jack – AKA – Jim Traynor?
Congratulations to St Johnstone on their European place.
Jack Jarvis says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 13:27
I think Tom chose his words very carefully there, and I have no problem with them. To interpret his words as saying Rangers won the Big Tax Case is a very partial reading, and to say it’s what he means if only he hadn’t added “on an industrial scale” is irrelevant. There are lots of interpretations one could bring if you exclude some of the words actually used.
I think he is accurate in his summation of prevailing opinion for anyone who had spent any time reading RTC’s posts. It was certainly my opinion and prejudgment. The FTT(T) verdict contradicted my opinion in the most part.
HMRC are appealing of course, but they would not have to if they had been mostly successful at the FTT(T). That is some sort of victory for MIH and Rangers (in liquidation). Would you deny that?
Night Terror says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 14:37
chipm0nk says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 13:22
‘I can’t be bothered differentiating between the two, but neither do I want to confuse by referring to it/them in such a way that the reader misunderstands to whom I refer, so “Ibrox Club”….
……………………………………………..
I always think those who spout the…’I can’t be bothered regards new club old club’….you don’t have to be bothered…just call it as it is….a NEW club!
Night Terror says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 14:37
“The Ibrox Club”
Sorry, but that must rank up there with the most obvious attempts at obfuscation yet. Well done.
If by that you mean the new version, which you must as the old one doesn’t play there any more, then I’m not sure what sins they are guilty of.
They are being investigated for lying to the footballing authorities, but I don’t think that has been resolved yet.
They may have misled the stock market by not declaring the claims on the assets, but again that has yet to be decided.
Have they actually been found guilty of anything yet.
There could be serious consequences for some of the things they stood accused of, but let’s wait until there is some resolution.
The old one was found guilty of lying cheating and stealing. That really is facty, nothing to do with being Celticy or anti Rangersy, But it’s harsh to blame the new one for anything until they are actually found guilty.
ecobhoy says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 13:36
Had not reached your post above, whe I was alerted to the same article by a different source.
chipm0nk says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 14:30
That is good advice, but I can’t deny enjoying the visible cognitive dissonance portrayed in Mr Graham’s output. His world is crumbling, constantly. Would showing some pity for him be so difficult?
Jonnyod
Indeed. The only reason for a three year exile is Chapter 2 Article12 of UEFA FFP that requires three years of unbroken membership of a national association.
It applies to football clubs ( which are a legal entity responsible for running the team as defined in the Article ) and says that a change in company structure interrupts the membership history.
There is further provision in other rules for a national association to make a well founded case for UEFA to make an exception but it is UEFA who decide if an exception applies not the SFA and no exception case was made.
In choosing not to make the case but accepting a 3 year ban applies, the SFA have accepted that they cannot make a case that liquidation has not interrupted membership and the unaudited accounts unpaid tax reason was good cover for the myth.
By the way I sent Jim Delahunt the rules and reasoning by e mail and asked him to share them with his colleagues.
I have no problem whatsoever in The Rangers supporters saying that in them the spirit of Rangers lives on , just as the spirit of my dear auld departed da lives on in me.
My auld man was, like everyone, no saint but it is the best of him, and there was much, that I hope lives on in me. In that respect we can all choose what we wish to keep alive.
St Johnstone chairman lamenting the fact that he knows not a whit about what the SPL can promise financially for next season.Utterly lamentable and an indictment on our governing authorities.
More Tapes??
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/646415442?-11344:801
paulmac2 says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 14:49
I think the opinions on this issue are entrenched now and nothing will ever change the opinion of either side. The issue for me is dead now – a historical disagreement that will never be settled. I’d prefer to avoid the whole topic as having run its course to nobody’s satisfaction, and a waste of energy to continually rake over.
Making explicit which side of that divide you are on in the course of discussion now seems futile to me and a block on constructive discourse.
“The Ibrox Club” helps me avoid this in company of any sort. And here you can see how well it is working for me!
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/646415442?-11344:801
The Sun apparently has some more tapes.
ecobhoy says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 13:36
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/tom-english-craig-whyte-s-rangers-takeover-bid-has-been-a-tortuous-process-1-1595764
———————
The bit you copied from that old article is very interesting. The numbers and details Tom English quotes (£28M deposited, big tax case provided for), would not have had any resonance back then. RTC was talking about £18M Lloyd’s debt. However Charlottes documents have shown a detailed financing structure and that £28M rings a bell. This document from January 2011 indicates that value :
http://www.scribd.com/doc/142101511/Quantum
£27M plus £1.5M break fees.
Similarly the allowance for the big tax case would not have been publicly known. Charlottes document below verifies that there was a contingency for the big tax case.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/141168170/HoT-Rangers-Tax-Case-Facility-v2
So despite Mr English’ journalistic credentials being questioned, he seems to have potentially excellent sources at a time when most others were in the dark. Perhaps that explains the tone of his article today. He knows the game is up. He’s climbing into a lifeboat cos he knows there aren’t enough spaces for everyone. Does this point to a much greater level of collusion between MSM and the players involved than even us Celticy types would ever suspect.
Remember the Charlotte document concerning a Sun journalist :
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xfn1fo4w5hov0o5/oYCcQEacAU
Are MSM bought and paid for! Was the lamb really that succulent? What kind of society are we living in?
We are starting to find out. This goes far beyond sport and beyond the remit of this blog. Is this 2013 or 1984.
Women and children first??????????
Latest from Charlotte
“Who Are These People?
In April 2012, Ally McCoist famously asked this question of the three members of the SFA Judicial Panel that imposed transfer sanctions on Rangers FC. At the time, it was widely reported that Rangers personnel already knew the names of the panelists and many speculated that McCoist was just shamelessly trying to stir up supporters to threaten those who might impose penalties in the future.
Just how well Rangers knew these people might be surprising. It was reported after the three panelists were named in the Scottish media that one of them, Alistair Murning, was a Rangers season ticket holder. It was odd that he did not recuse himself from such duties, but given the penalties imposed, few doubted at the time that a fair outcome was achieved.
The attached email correspondence shows that in October 2011, just six months before sitting to determine the punishment for his club’s failure to remit taxes withheld from players’ wages, Mr. Murning was in close communications with Craig Whyte’s father. His refusal to believe the evidence against Craig Whyte at this time is interesting too.
As an SFA Judicial Panelist, did Murning put aside his loyalties to his club and act impeccably? Or is there a pattern of ‘Rangers men’ sitting in key positions to ensure that punishments are manageable and minimal? You now have some more information to help you decide for yourself.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/142362465/Family-Friend “
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 3m
Who Are These People? In April 2012, Ally McCoist famously asked this question of the three members of the (cont) http://tl.gd/n_1rkccft
That’s a good one from Charlotte.
Yes, how bad that programme looked for the BBC! How bad indeed, as they count the awards it won and how accurate it has proved to be.
Auldheid
I remember Regan being asked on TV if TRFCI are the same club as RFC and he replied that it would be a matter for the fans of RFC to conclude that .
Right there and then I knew RFC were dead as a club because we all know if they were the same club Ragan would have been shouting it from the rooftops .
The fact the MSM still peddle their myth only leaves them open to ridicule
chipm0nk on Sunday, May 19
Congratulations to St Johnstone on their European place.
==================
Second season on the trot and all done on a thruppence hapenny, well done indeed
newtz says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 13:07
http://flic.kr/p/ekyAvJ
—————-
The term ‘fake’ has become ubiquitious. Fake sheik. ‘Faking It’ programme on TV. I’m not sure the proximity of a tanning salon to a lawyer engaged by Craig Whyte is a ‘clincher’ concerning Charlotte’s identity. The fact that the law firm concerned appear a bit lightweight is the more interesting aspect for me. Companies house entry :
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/OC322062
Not being party to shenanigans I don’t know if perhaps these companies mask their true asset values for say tax purposes. It is certainly possible given what tactics we have seen so far. The website looks a liitle more professional, though as someone pointed out earlier, does not gleam with prestige :
http://www.merchantlegal.com/Merchant_Legal/WHAT_WE_DO.html
It is however significantly more convincing than the modest premises above the coffee shop you have streetviewed. Do lawyers need plush offices to do their work from. A desk, a phone a computer, just like the rest of us.
It is a bit fishy however and if there is a clincher then surely it is the quality of the legal advice they offered. I have already requested that those with knowledge of such things (BRTH, you must have a feel for this at least) provide whatever insight they can to indicate whether this is a sham. To me, it looked thorough and comprehensive and filled with suitable legaleese.
When Charlotte is finally uncovered (calm yourself briggsboy) and it turns out the whole thing was orchestrated from this office then I’m sure more than a few will recollect your post newtz.
On RM at least one poster has retained sense of a humour – quite funny
Suggesting in future the Board meets naked on the Campsie Hills – wot no tapes?
Another suggests a new audio technique!!
Still – they might have cracked the puzzle
twopanda now understands the `fearless` MSM predicament
+ all`s cool & fine mulluch – no probs mate! 😉
mr cosgrove…or any msm guy with balls…
as this indeed is football related an highlights the connections between the SFA “independent” judicial panel and mr whyte’s family and the fact that al murning is/was also a supporter of RFC(il).
can you investigate why the SFA chose mr murning ?
Date:
Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:58:18 +0100
From:
Alistair Murning
To:
Hi Tom,It was good to meet you and the family in the Blue Room and to catch up on some of our mutual acquaintances.Another good victory yesterday you looked to be enjoying the match in spite of sitting next toGordon Smith !!!!!!
I watched the BBC’s “Inside Rangers the true story” and I have to say that I was appalled a
thow bad it was, not for Craig and Rangers but for the Beeb.
Anyway I spoke with “one Cap” Bobby Watson and was delighted that we had made contactand even more delighted when I told him that I had met a friend of his, He doesn’t have many
!!! He would be up for a bite of lunch in the next week or so. So if you fancy that let meknow what your availability is over the next couple of weeks.Best wishesAl Murning07850 602x
John Daly saying on the radio his move to Ibrox is ‘not yet a done deal’ though he clearly wants to go there. Might yet the financial reality of this move hit the buffers?
tonto8on8his8high8horse says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 14:36
“I was thinking about the time that Chuck was pictured at love street”
—————-
St Mirren fans may not like it being said but I could follow the logic of your analysis the whole way through. When it rings that clear its got to be a bell.
It is sad to see the way certain posts and posters are treated increasingly on this site.
I sense a faint whiff of a bullying culture developing over the last few weeks and perhaps this explains what appears to me to be a dwindling number of non-Celtic fans posting on the site?
If that continues I think its fair to say the site will become less representative of Scottish Football fans as a whole and more of a one-club forum than anything else.
That would be a very sad loss to Scottish Football Bampotdom.
rantinrobin says:
Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 14:54
St Johnstone chairman lamenting the fact that he knows not a whit about what the SPL can promise financially for next season.Utterly lamentable and an indictment on our governing authorities.
==================================================
Also interesting to hear being in Europe last season more or less cost St Johnstone money. Let’s hope they do better this time so it’s worth their while.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/rangers-malcolm-murray-was-fired-by-imran-ahmad-1-2936757
Must have been a fun atmosphere round T ‘ Big Howse for the last 3 months. If Murray knows a lot of what is now being released surely he must come out and speak to the Rangers fans or is it a case of ‘Keep schtum and you’ll get a tidy payoff’ ? People who know him have indicated he is a principled man. I guess we’ll know soon enough.
There are 42 senior clubs in Scotland. Yet the Campbell Ogilvie led SFA found someone who with a connection or support for the club being investigated.
Murning should have recused himself, although I understand he’s a decent individual who has made an error of judgement in accepting this position.
Ogilvie is either an incompetent clown, or a biased tainted one. Or both
Regardless of which it is, the fact he is still in position says all you need to know about our governing body.
Oh , and Campbell don’t bother trotting out the I wasn’t involved nonsense. You watched as your organization appointed a Rangers supporter to have 33% of the say in judgement over HIS and YOUR club were