A Blog by James Forrest for TSFM
I am a socialist, and as a socialist I believe in the fundamental goodness of people. Some people find that hard to believe when they read the stuff I write.
I published my first novel recently, on politics and the corrupting nature of it, and it is a deeply cynical book, a book where no-one has clean hands come the end. What has surprised some of those who’ve read it is that I didn’t focus on the lies and smears of the right, but the hypocrisy and deceit of those who claim to be of the left.
Corruption, you see, doesn’t respect political boundaries or points of view. It’s like rainwater. It finds every crack, and gets in there.
My political beliefs revolve around two apparently paradoxical elements; the belief in the inherent decency of people and the need for a strong, and powerful, state. I believe the second underpins the first, and this brings me into conflict with a lot of people, some on the left and some on the right. Too many people see the state as inherently evil, as something that interferes too much in the lives of ordinary people. As something suffocating.
Yet the state exists to protect us. It exists to provide a safety net. It exists to regulate and to oversee. If the state is made up of bad people, if the gears of society are captured by those with malicious or selfish intent, the results are obvious; war, corruption, chaos.
The vast majority of our problems in the modern age can be neatly summed up in two lines from Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming”, which I used to open my novel. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”
We live in a time when those who are protecting their own interests have assumed such power that they’ve cowed the rest of us. They have become a law unto themselves. They have changed the nature of the game, because they have sapped our will to the extent some barely put up a fight anymore. The weak get weaker, and the strong use their strength to crush the rest even more. It is a vicious struggle, a downward spiral.
Society is held together not only by the endeavour and common interests of its citizens but by a collection of laws. We elect the people who make those laws. They do so in our name, and we can remove that right every four years. That is a powerful thing, and we do not appreciate it enough. The present corruption exists because we allow it to exist.
The people around me continue to puzzle over my uncommon interest in the affairs of a football club on the west of Glasgow. My own club plays in the east end. I tell those who ask that my primary interest in the goings-on at the club calling itself Rangers is no longer about football; how could it be, after all? With promotion this year they are still a full two divisions below us, emasculated, skint, weak and unstable. If we were fortunate enough to draw them in cup competition the match would be over, as a tie, by the halfway point … in the first half.
In footballing terms they are an utter irrelevance.
Rangers is more than a football club to me. They are a symbol. Their unfolding calamity is an on-going outrage. What is happening there, what is being allowed to happen, is an offense to decency. It is a stain on the face of our country.
In short, it is a scandal. It is a scandal without parallel in sport.
Yet it’s not just a sports story either. If it was, I might not be so focussed on it. What is happening at Rangers is a colossal failure of governance. It is a damning indictment against the very people who are supposed to oversee our game. It is a disgraceful abrogation of responsibility from those at the top, those who claim to be “running things.”
If this is not a failure of governance it is a result of corruption at the heart of our national sport. It says they are bought and paid for, and I will say no such thing here.
So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. We’ll say instead that what they are is weak, indecisive, inept and disconnected from reality.
It reminds me of our political class, which has become insular and ignorant about what the public wants, and what it needs. It’s not a wonder parties like UKIP can achieve national vote shares of 25% at local elections. Nigel Farage strikes me as a dog-whistle politician, the kind who knows how to appeal to a select group of voters. He is little different to Charles Green, the man who beguiled Rangers fans into handing over large amounts of money, because he was “standing up for the club.” It is easy to do what he did, easy to do what Farage is doing.
Real leadership requires toughness. Say what you like about the Tories, but they have that in spades. Yeats was right about the worst being full of passionate intensity. Green was. Farage is. Cameron and Osborne personify it in their political outlook.
It is easy to be cowed by blunt force politics, and by “tough talking Yorkshire men” and venomous speeches about “strivers and skivers.” The politics of divide and conquer is the oldest form of politics there is, and it’s no surprise to see it practiced by some of the vested interests in the game here in Scotland. Yet, lest we forget … something significant happened last year. The maligned and the ignored, the weak and the voiceless found something they never realised they had. They discovered that, in a very real sense, the power was in their hands.
Last year, the fans rose up when the governing bodies and the media went all-out to save Rangers from the self-inflicted wounds caused by a decade of cheating, malpractice and ineptitude. I have no problem calling that what it was.
What happened at Rangers seemed incredible, but it was all too predictable, and some of us had been talking about it for years before it hit. The Association seemed caught in the headlights but it would amaze me if they really were as insular and ignorant as they appeared. They must have known how bad the outlook was for Rangers. They just chose to ignore it.
They were aided and abetted by a thoroughly disreputable media, a collection of cowards and compromisers, charlatans and frauds, masquerading as journalists, but who long ago laid aside any claim to be bold investigators and settled for commenting on events as they unfolded. More often than not, with their ill-informed opinions, sometimes due to weaknesses in intellect and others wilfully ignorant, they failed even in that.
Entire newspapers became PR machines for crooks and swindlers. They aided in the scam because they didn’t do their jobs, some because they were lazy, some because they were incompetent and others because they wanted a seat at the table and were willing to sacrifice whatever integrity they once had in exchange for one.
That all of this was embraced by the Rangers fans is amazing to me. They trusted when they should have been asking questions. They closed their eyes, covered their ears and sang their battle tunes at the top of their voices so they wouldn’t have to hear anything they didn’t like. As incredible as I found it then, and still find it now – and now, even more so, when they have already seen the results of it once – I find it pathetic too, and I do feel pity for some of them.
A lot of these people are genuine football fans, and nothing more. They have no interest in the phony narrow nationalism, or the over-blown religion, or the notion of supremacy which manifested itself in a ludicrous statement from McCoist when interviewed recently on Sky.
Some of the Rangers fans look at their team of duds, kids and journeymen, they look at a boardroom of cowards and crooks, they look at a failing manager in his first (and last) job in the game and at a dark future and are not in the least bit impressed by, or interested in, the chest-out arrogance espoused in those ridiculous words “we are the people.” They know full well that their present crisis was made by men like McCoist, and they understand that pretentious posturing is not an act born of strength, but a scrambling around in the gutter, and a symptom of weakness.
They understand their position, and they hate it. And because they care about Rangers, because they value the club, because they cherish those things that made it a great Scottish institution, they want that back. They understand that before the Union Jack waving, Sash singing, poppy wearing, Nazi saluting, Orange element became the public face of their support Rangers meant something else, and that, above all things, is what pains them the most.
People do not hate Rangers. When the country appeared to turn its back last year, they were turning the back on favouritism and the bending of rules. Yet it would be a lie to say that there is not an element of dislike in the gleeful mockery of many rival fans.
But they don’t hate Rangers either. They hate the version of it around which a certain section of the support continues to dance. They hate the version which hates, and so too do many, many, many Rangers supporters, and they definitely deserve better.
David Murray chose not to openly challenge that version. Indeed, he encouraged certain strands of it to flourish and grow, with his “Britishness Days” and his effort to turn the club into the “team that supports the troops.” Other clubs have done as much, if not more, for the British Army than the one that plays out of Ibrox. Other clubs have given more money. Other clubs have lent their support to those on the front lines. They just chose to do it with respect, and with class, and with dignity. They chose to do it in private, understanding that there eventually comes a tipping point between looking after the ends of the soldiers and using them to promote your own.
The army has not battened on to Rangers. Rangers has battened on to them, and although it is unclear when an altruistic motive became darker, what started out as a gesture of solidarity is now used to entrench division and promote a notion of superiority.
Craig Whyte took over from Murray and immediately understood the lure of the “dog whistle.” He knew too that the media would accept whatever he told them, without question, and as he spoke up for “Rangers traditions” he made sure the lunatic fringe was well onside. He met face to face with the hard-core extremists in the support first and made them his praetorian guard. They spoke up for him until the day the club entered administration.
So, whereas Murray pandered to them and Whyte used them to further his own ends, it was only a matter of time before someone suggested to Charles Green that he could use the same tactics to win over the support. He went even further and blatantly promoted and encouraged this mind-set, and stoked the hate and nonsense to frightening new heights. The same people who cheered Whyte to the rafters jumped on board the Big Blue Bus and the results are clear.
Through all of it, the ordinary Rangers fan has seen his club buffered against the rocks, battered, broken, smashed to smithereens and sunk. Now there’s a big hole in the side of the lifeboat, and they are terrified that further tragedies await.
They are right to be concerned. Much of the media is still not telling them what they need to know. The people in charge of their club – the owners who have lied, the former hack who covered up the truth about Whyte and now acts as a mouthpiece for Green, the “club legends” who are content to sup with the devil and take his greasy coin when they should be standing toe-to-toe with the fans – are trying to silence those members of the press who do have facts to present.
How many times now have media outlets been banned from Ibrox for daring to report the truth? The manager who demanded the names of a committee last year defends those inside the walls who are desperate to keep secret the things that are going on. He is either an unprincipled coward, or he is, himself, bought and paid for. The fans suffer for it.
The “inconvenient truth” is still being kept from them, and this denies them any chance to play an active role in their club. Indeed, it is all too possible that they’ve passed a point of no return, and that their club is heading for a new liquidation event and it can no longer be stopped.
In either case, their power has been eroded to the point at which they must feel they have nothing left to do but stand back and watch what happens next.
They are wrong. I am a socialist. I believe in the inherent good of people. I think the ordinary decent Rangers fans are the only people left who can save their club … and the means by which they will do it is as simple as it could be.
They must stand up for “big government.” They must embrace the need for a “strong state.” They must lobby the SFA, and they must trust the SFA and they must get the SFA to follow its own rules and thereby save them from any further harm.
There is a tendency amongst some Celtic fans to see our governing bodies as pro-Rangers. If it is true then those running our game are ruining Scottish football without benefiting the thing they love more. The incalculable harm that has been done to Rangers in the last 20 some months is a direct result of the subservient media and the willingness of the football authorities to be “deaf, dumb and blind.” Those who believe this has actually helped the Ibrox club have not been paying attention in class. It has irrevocably scarred them, and it may yet have played a hand in destroying them once and for all, as a force if not as a club entirely.
For years, the SFA sat and did nothing as a club in their association operated a sectarian signing policy. They did nothing whilst the fans sang sectarian songs. In their failure to act they strengthened those elements of the Rangers support, instead of isolating, alienating and eventually helping to eliminate those who saw that club as a totem pole of division and hate. Their failure over EBT’s, and their lack of scrutiny, led to one of the greatest scandals in the history of sport, and I say that with no equivocation at all. The testimony of their registrations officer in the Lord Nimmo Smith investigation was a disgrace and in years to come it will rank as one of the most disreputable and damaging moments in the association’s history.
The most egregious failures of all were the failures in the so-called “fit and proper person” tests, which allowed first Whyte and then Charles Green to assume controlling positions at Ibrox. They will pass the buck and say the responsibility lies with the club itself, in much the same way as they are content to let the club investigate itself at the present time, but any neutral who looks at this stance knows it is unprincipled and spineless. It’s like letting the defence set the terms at a trial. It is foxes investigating the chicken coop.
It is a blueprint for corruption, and a recipe for disaster.
It is now too late for the SFA to declare Green “unfit”, as it was too late when they finally slapped that title on Craig Whyte. He and his allies own Rangers, and they control its destiny. They can push the club to the wall if they choose, in the final extremity, if that gets them what they want. The time for changing that is past. The damage has already been done. The barbarians are not at the gates. They are inside the walls, and sacking the city.
The SFA will be forced to punish Rangers for the sins of the owners, for the second time in as many years, and whilst it is right that the club face up to that, all the better to send a message to other clubs and other owners, the SFA cannot be allowed to slither off the hook here as though this was none of their doing. Green will skip off into the sunset. Craig Whyte has yet to pay his fine. These people never cared about Scottish football and they don’t care now.
The SFA are supposed to. Our governing body is supposed to govern, for the good of the whole game, and not as a support system for a single club. What they have allowed to happen on their watch is absolutely shameful and if the people responsible were men at all, with any sense of accountability, they would resign en masse.
They can pretend ignorance, but only the truly ignorant would accept that. Craig Whyte was not inside Ibrox a week before RTC and other sites were dismantling his entire business history, with some of the people here doing the work the SFA would not. Whyte himself claims to have made the governing bodies aware of the scale of what was facing the club, and they did nothing at all. Heads should have rolled a year ago.
In October of last year, on this very site, I posted an article in which I wrote:
“Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.
To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.”
There are times when it is fun to be right, but this is not one of them. It is dispiriting and disquieting to have been so on the nose. It scares the Hell out of me, as someone who loves football in this country, to have seen this matter clearly when the people running our game apparently either did not or chose to ignore very real, very obvious, concerns. The Internet Bampots had no special insight or access to information that was denied those at the SFA. We just weren’t prepared to ignore it and pretend that it wasn’t there. There was too much at stake.
I have become convinced that things will never change until the Rangers supporters join us in demanding the full and unabridged truth here. They need to come out from under the bed, and confront their fears. They need to be willing to take the consequences, so that their club can emerge clean from this, and start again, with all this behind them.
And it can all happen with one simple thing. The application of the rules.
The existence of laws comes down to a simple principle; they protect society from those elements within it who are interested only in their own selfish ends. We may cry out at those rules and regulations we see as “restrictive”, but the law was not made to restrict our freedoms but to protect them. Had the SFA years ago acted against Rangers sectarian signing policy, and the songs from the stands, the club would not have mutated to the point where there was no help on hand when they needed it the most. Let’s not kid ourselves about this; Whyte and Green were only able to grab control because the club itself has a dreadful image which put off respectable and responsible buyers. The SFA could have helped change that perception years ago and did nothing.
The SFA could have conducted its own investigation into who Craig Whyte was. They could have asked David Murray for full disclosure when he was running up £80 million of debt, a sum of money that is beyond belief for a single club in a small provincial backwater league. Had they had the guts to do that the club would never have spent itself into oblivion and forced the hand of Lloyds, which led indirectly to their ignominious end.
The SFA could have fully investigated Charles Green and the means by which he took control, instead of rushing through a license. His emergence at the last minute was transparently suspicious and designed to force them into a quick decision, but they did not have to bow to that pressure by making one, without being in possession of the facts, as it is now 100% clear they were not.
Had they asked for every document, had they insisted on legal affidavits and personal securities from investors (and this would have been perfectly legitimate and is common place in other licensing areas) none of this would have come to pass. After Craig Whyte they had a moral responsibility to the rest of the game to get this one right and their failure is without parallel in the history of Scottish football.
As the club hurtles towards a new abyss, names are cropping up which should send a shudder down the spines of every honest, genuine supporter of not only Rangers but every team in the land. The SFA claims that a strong Rangers is essential for the sake of Scottish football, but they have been extraordinarily lax in protecting that club, and therefore the game, from destructive elements. Craig Whyte and Charles Green had dubious personal histories, and the acquisition of the club itself was mired in controversy and scandal. Yet it was allowed.
Neither Green nor Whyte were known to have operated outside the law, yet neither was worthy of trust or stood up to scrutiny. Neither man should ever have been granted the status as fit and proper persons to assume a role in our national sport, and if it is true of them what can we say about the three men who are, presently, being touted as the Great White Hopes for a bright, new Rangers future; Dave King and the Easdale brothers?
King recently cut a deal with the South African government over an on-going dispute over taxes. In other words, he pled guilty and accepted the central plank of their argument; that for years he was engaged in wilfully with-holding vast revenues from their Treasury. The media does not like to put it like that, and the SFA seems willing to ignore it utterly, and this would be scandalous enough. But it does not stop there. HRMC rules – as well as the SFA’s own governance documents – actually bar him from serving on the board of the new club.
Last but not least, aside from being an admitted tax cheat, King is also awaiting trial in South Africa, having been indicted for corruption, forgery and fraud – 300 charges in total. Yet as recently as last week, we were told that the Association was willing to look at him and consider representations from his lawyers. This is almost beyond belief.
If Dave King’s position is untenable, and he is yet to be convicted of a crime, what can we say about the position of the Easdale’s? One of the two brothers, Sandy, has already served jail time. He is a convicted criminal, a fraudster nonetheless, who’s “victim” was the same Treasury who are appealing one case involving the old club and liquidated it entirely over another. This is precisely the kind of “businessman” the fit and proper person test was supposed to weed out, and if the SFA holds its nose here the reek will stink out the halls at Hampden for decades. If King or the Easdale’s are judged fit and proper, then who exactly is the test for? What exactly do you have to do to fail it? How do we explain the existence of laws, when these are not applied?
Pascal says “Law without force is impotent.” The SFA’s weakness has allowed one version of Rangers to destroy itself, and has allowed an existential risk to another. If the next power at Rangers resides in South Africa or Greenock I can say with some certainty that the Association is engaged in an even more dangerous roll of the dice, because the surfacing of fresh scandal will be an ever present risk, and will be of the sort no-one will survive.
The damage to Scottish football will take years to heal. The Scottish game has been through enough trauma. It does not need more. It barely survived the last calamity to hit Rangers. The rest of us should not be forced to pay the price of the next one.
The greater damage will be done to Rangers itself. If the Green crisis ends in another collapse – as it well might; another administration event is a certainty, and another liquidation is a much more likely prospect than it was before 14 February 2012 – the club will once again have to start from the bottom, and this time the reputational damage will be impossible to repair. The club faces internal strife, sporting sanctions, and criminal investigations. The last takeover might be declared a fraud. the Whyte takeover will almost certainly be. The share issue might be invalid, as well as criminal, and the people involved may well end up in jail. Lawsuits could follow from investors, there could be as yet unknown consequences from the Upper Tier Tax Tribunal (thank you Brogan Rogan for pointing out what those might be) and a host of other issues.
Rangers fans must be the loudest voices here. How do you want the world to view your club in years to come? Do you want one to be proud of, or one forever associated with the shame and disgrace of these days gone by? The one which bailed out on its tax obligations. The one with supporters who disgrace your very name. The one which allowed Whyte and Green to take you to the cleaners and send you to the wall. The one which handed over control to one convicted criminal and another awaiting trial. Do you want to be reborn clean, or mired in the muck?
David Murray destroyed your financial stability. He made it so no bank would issue you a line of credit and no investor of note wanted to buy. Craig Whyte liquidated you. Charles Green has cast the future of the Newco into doubt and acted in a manner which has annihilated your credibility with the financial markets for decades to come.
Between these three men, they have taken everything from you, and the press and the people who run the game here, as well as some of your own blindly ignorant fans, have allowed them to do all this and more. Now they conspire to hand the keys to Ibrox to other men of questionable character, who will wreck further havoc on the reputation of the club.
The Scottish Football Association has damaged the game it was supposed to protect, but above all else their greatest failure of governance was a failure to protect one of its biggest clubs from its own excesses and those of its owners.
Rangers fans, the SFA have betrayed your trust, more than the trust of any other club. What you must insist on now is full disclosure and transparency from the powers that be in Hampden. The SFA has to end the charade of allowing your club to handle this in-house. They must hand everything over to an outside agency – whether a legal one, or a footballing body like UEFA – and they must demand co-operation and answers, and threaten to withhold the license if they don’t get them.
You must not be afraid of that. You must embrace it. The men with their hands on the gears at Ibrox are motivated by money, and nothing more. If the license is withdrawn their “investments” are worthless. They cannot risk that.
You must demand that the rules on fit and proper persons are applied, and where necessary even made stronger, to prevent your club falling into unclean hands. You must demand that they protect your reputation from further damage, by getting this all out there and acting accordingly, even if that means your club does not play football for at least a year.
You must be willing to suck it all up, knowing that what will emerge is a Rangers which has been cleansed and moves forward with honour, and dignity, led by custodians who treasure it rather than those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
The Rangers Standard has recently emerged as a genuine voice for those in your support who are sick and tired of what Rangers has become, and want it restored to something that is worthy of the love and respect in which you hold it. On that website, there are discussions about the kind of club you seek to be and about whether the institution of Rangers is about more than just football.
If that’s how you feel about it then you know it is about more than how many titles the club can claim, about more than just results on the park, about more than just the game. Rangers, like Celtic, is an idea. It has to be something you are proud of.
I am a socialist, but one with a fevered imagination and a tendency to write very dark things. This piece won’t have been good reading for some of you (perhaps all of you haha!) but I think there’s more hope in here than in other things I’ve written.
In spite of everything that’s come to pass, I still believe. I believe in Scottish football. I believe in our system of football governance, even if those who are working in it are failing on some level.
In society, as much as we strain against them, laws exist for our protection. To fail to enforce them is to leave us at the mercy of those elements who would do us harm. The rules of football ensure the protection of all clubs, not just a few.
The failure to enforce the rules has never had graver consequences than here in Scotland. The irony is that bending and breaking them has hurt the one club those violations were designed to help. It cannot be allowed to happen again.
The rules must be applied without fear or favour.
The best must find their conviction, and their passionate intensity once more.
James is a co-editor of the On Fields of Green Blog http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/
rantinrobin says:
Snap 😉
easyJambo says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:16
0 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says: Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:03
How I hope that Hearts do NOT go down this route:
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/226557-scandinavian-consortium-close-to-negotiating-a-price-to-buy-hearts/
Let it be a fans’ buyout …
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The problem is that anyone who has a lump sum to front a bid would be in a much more advantageous position in negotiations with UBIG / Ukio administrators than the current fans group, Foundation of Hearts, who have an unspecified number of unconfirmed monthly pledges to support their own bid. Some sort of joint bid may be possible though.
The information the was revealed yesterday about the history of those fronting the Scandinavian bid leaves a lot of doubt in my mind.
I don’t know how much investigation STV have carried out today, but the article looks just to be little more than a re-hash of the statement yesterday from Crest Sports Group.
Whoever, does take over, I’m pretty sure that they will wait for administration to hit UBIG and/or Hearts before making their move.
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My fear is it’s another Charlie Green & Co waiting to happen. This consortium isn’t doing it for charitable purposes. I just heard on the news that the current shares may become worthless! Distressed clubs are fast becoming vulture heaven. I wonder if the Lithuanian authorities might look kindly on a fans’ appeal and accept a reduced fee to let the club and assets return to the people?
Night Terror says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 17:26
@barcabhoy
– I am concerned that you think the regulation of Scottish football is not a fit topic to discuss here – if you think this is not appropriate, perhaps you would be able to supply a list of topics you would find of sufficient import for Scottish Football
Is it really too much to expect that you can engage with a contrary opinion without alleging some unstated ulterior motive? Shame on you.
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That did strike me as a bit of an odd comment by Barca – I wonder what his motive was?
Anyhow – carry on NT I like your style and although I don’t quite agree with you that the SFA should have no role in an upfront F&PP test I can see why you wouldn’t trust the current incumbents to apply it properly.
Many bears, including Chris Graham, have long maintained RFC were victims of spivery and the sfa should have protected them. The sfa clearly have a case to answer but that in no way mitigates the club’s responsibility to ensure legal and moral standards are maintained.
When did this fit and proper clause become part of the Scottish football landscape? I heard from a very reliable source that the sfa made strong representations to the spivs at dens to steer clear when GDS appeared on the scene, but the brothers grim simply ignored it. We are still none the wiser as to how Dfc managed to rack up debts several multiples greater than their annual turnover, have a club infested with Italian camel coats and known swindlers then simply pull the admin stroke and leave the carcus with all the debts and not a spiv in sight, and that was just the first time, they even managed it twice! The sfa should have had something in place after that disgraceful episode. So the sfa do have previous for doing er….sfa whilst the tax payer, fans, share holders and vendors get shafted to satisfy the vainglorious impulses of ‘business men’. Just to add, the case of Dfc does demonstrate the durability of football clubs. If there is one club that has treated its fan base with utter contempt for decades it’s Dfc, spiv after spiv have spoked it dry, yet the fans, to their credit, have held sponsored walks, baked tablet and macaroon, shaved their balls…..done whatever it took to ensure the club is able to stumble on….till next time ………yeeeeehaaaaa! 😉
bect67 says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:04
0 3 Rate This
I was expecting this daft rule (ha! ha!) to be invoked.
Celtic, as the designated (!) away team will wear their all black strip at the Cup Final.
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I’m sorry, I have little sympathy for clubs who design and market all black and/or grey kits 😀
Demand a decent away kit of your club!
upthehoops says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:00
Another step closer to SPL2. Another step closer to a club being advanced for the first time ever outwith the basis of on-field success.
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Personally I don’t think this will happen.
I believe most clubs realise that there will be uproar from their own supporters if this is attempted. There is nothing at present to indicate that this is planned. The talk is about the existing 12 SPL clubs and 10 First Division clubs as they would be next season, on merit.
Having seen a prospect of extra cash passing down to them, the First Division clubs are going to do all they can to make this prospect a reality. Sounds like they see this as what is needed to to maintain a full time modus operandi outwith the SPL.
On Sportsound this evening the discussion was about there being a straight one up one down between the new SPL 2 and what is currently Division 2. No indication as to what would happen if the Ibrox club were to finish second!
HirsutePursuit says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:09
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Do you think GS was really part of the ‘get out of jail’ think tank ?
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Was GS there by design or simply by good fortune? However he came to be there, he sure was in the right place at the right time. And however this rule change came about, it sure came about at the right time.
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Like I said above he was a football pundit and players agent before being appointed Chief Exec. He had no relevant experience and at the time when I heard of his appointment I thought to myself “How odd” – strings were pulled.
Re the rest of HP’s post – coincidences are rare – planning for disasters is more common. Never underestimate how much work goes into stuff like this.
TSFM says: Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:28
========================
I think most Hearts fans remember that game well and how the outcome appeared to swing on a decision by Ian Brines to send off Takis Fysass (red card subsequently rescinded) after an unnamed Celtic player (now an FA cup winner 😉 ) was allegedly brought down.
However, on Tynecastle, I think there is an acceptance amongst the majority of Hearts fans, that the survival of the club is more important that saving the ground. i.e. if a new owner of the ground makes it impossible or uneconomic to stay there, then a move to Murrayfield or a new council owned venue may be inevitable.
TSFM says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:12
——————————————–
Fair comment TSFM but anyone who has read Barcabhoy’s contributions over more than a year would agree that they have been universally informative and contributed handsomely to the debates, without ever being what you term “less than respectful”.
If he has been on this occasion, then my views would be (i) that he feels there is some justification for it and (ii) that he may not be alone in that view.
On your contribution re Hearts, I fully endorse it; like everyone else I want them to come through this and remain a strong member of the SPL and Scottish football.
I part company with you however on your description of Tynecastle; so far as I am concerned, too often in the recent past when Celtic have been the visitors, the atmosphere at that ground has at best been unpleasant and, if we are to be honest, frankly an appalling vocal manifestation of anti-Irish, anti-Catholic sentiment, far more offensive than anything heard or seen at Ibrox for many years.
The silence of the MSM on this point, accompanied by their lauding of the ground’s “atmosphere” has been one of the most disturbing facets of Scottish football in the past few years.
For that reason I think by far the best outcome for the future would be a financially secure Hearts playing at a new venue, whether “borrowed” or new, with the supporters at a safe remove from the field of play.
rantinrobin says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:26
‘..Charlotte’s back……….’
——
SDM making sure he got a share of any increased value in RFC if Craigie boy managed to get them into the EPL! ( see para 12)
Fantasy land plus!
manandboy says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 16:43
———————————————–
Re the transfer of membership, who proposed the change to the rules and why?
If any of our esteemed fourth estate are lurking – you could always ask someone at the SFA.
however here’s what I think will happen instead:
http://stalinsmoustache.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/flyingpigs.jpg?w=510
The reconstruction debacle highlights the extent to which transparency is an issue across Scottish Football, not merely for the Ibrox Club, SPL, SFL, SFA but the clubs generally.
What are we seeing here? Is it simply about power and money? The First Division sees a flash of the cash and principles are cast aside, heroes like Turnbull Hutton found to have feet of clay as they succumb to the mighty lure of the lucre.
Or is this a recognition of financial reality, that Scottish Football can only maintain about 20 full time clubs with all that entails in terms of cost commitments to training, youth development etc?
For those who see nobler motives behind the Second and Third Division clubs actions, are they not in fact motivated by similar business instincts, a desire for more money and power (voting influence)? If part time clubs see additional funds as critical to their business model, why is that?
The risk is that a perception is reinforced that the oft repeated mantra of the greater good of Scottish Football is simply a badge of convenience to disguise a grubby business process that alienates the customers of Scottish Football, fans and sponsors.
The SFA inaction
==============
As we watch the tumbleweed blow across our screens, whilst we wait for the SFA to do something…anything…
It made me think: what if we actually had an SFA leadership which could do just that, i.e. display strong leadership in a time of crisis ?
An honest character like Turnbull Hutton would shirley be on the steps of Hampden telling everyone that he personally – and the SFA – would do everything in their power to restore trust in the game and in the administration. He would also plead with Scottish football fans to give him time to ‘sort things out’. [OK he couldn’t say much in detail, but he could get across the sentiment in a clear and unambiguous fashion.]
But then again, if we did have leadership and honesty at the SFA, the game and RFC probably wouldn’t be in the mess it is in just now.
If any CEO of the SFA had any passion about the Scottish game, you would think he would be blowing a gasket in public by now to show the fans/paying customers that he really cares, and that he is also the right person to sort things out.
But maybe that’s the problem: Regan just doesn’t care ?
[I am discounting the clubs’ input to the SFA structure as I also think the SFA should be an independent, professionally run organisation to minimise conflicts/bias as we have seen in last couple of years in particular.]
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 35m
Draft funding letter early October 2010 to CW http://www.scribd.com/doc/143276001/Liberty-Capital-Draft-Funding-Letter-Oct-2010 … Version to MIH accepted 21 October 2010 http://www.scribd.com/doc/143277238/Proof-of-Funds-October-2010 …
I see Olswangs are legal firm for Ellis and Akers but David Roberts, a partner in same firm also advised Bill Miller the US trucking tycoon on his proposed acquisition of The Rangers Football Club plc (In Administration)
barcabhoy says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 16:09
Re. Night Terror and Greenockjack – both capable of defending themselves, and I’m sure they will soon enough. The past couple of days has perhaps had a somewhat narrow focus, but trolling? Night Terror’s pedantic picking apart of the FPP test is exactly the kind of offering we should hope for on TSFM and whilst Greenockjack’s contributions on CtH may have been leading away from what I thought was more important (see my posts yesterday) he was consistent, clear and always courteous in what his responses to any who challenged him. Not a Media House lackey I’d say, probably not even Adam. Guess I disagree with you Barca. I’m also a bit disappointed.
Bit off topic here but why do Celtic or The Rangers automatically get allocated the same end for Hampden cup finals?
It used to bug me back in the day when we used to get to cup finals 🙁
The failure of the HBOS in 2008 meant the end of SDM ‘ s hegemony in Scottish football’ s finances. He no longer had unfettered access to an unlimited cash source that he could also manipulate to control the finances of every other club in the league – bar one thanks to Fergus. He did still howrver have control.of both the MSM anf SFA via his decade and a half of patronage and the lifelong allegiance of the SFA to Rangers stretching back well over 50 years. Thus his inability to run a profitable or even a vaguely stable Rangers ensured that no respectable or FPP could or would go within touching distance of Rangers. His influence elsewhere however ensured that there would be no application of rules.that may have hindered Rangers within the SFA hence the granting of a UEFA licence when Rangers wete manifestly in breach of the conditions required; the ignoring of the rules by the SFA on player registrations which revealed the improper registration of most RFC players over years and the bizarre changing of rules on transfer of membership.
The culture of succulent lamb and the lack of collective intellectual capacity.amongsr Sports writers – one can hardly give any of them the epithet of journalist – was also deployed to ensure that the truth would never see the lught of day.
Only the Internet and the tenacity of PMc G RTC Phil McConville Barcabhoy and other well connected bampots prevented all of the machinations taking place outside of any public scrutiny.
Today’ s FPP spat appears to be between N T’ s real politik view of the world as it was and as it is clashing with the prevakent culture of Ibternet bampots for honesty and accoubtability. He is callung it as he sees it warts and all and others take issue as their vision is of a better governed tomorrow. I for one can see both sides and am more than impressed with the quality of discourse displayed. Well done to all I say!
With all this `news` flooding in
One does have to wonder what the Criminal Investigation has been doing these past 11 months.
Perhaps they are `on the ball` ?
Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:36
Unfortunately Danish, it we are to be consistent, then we couldn’t support such a move. If the Lithuanian regulations are anything like our own, then their administrators duty is to generate as much cash as possible for creditors, which is only right, much as I would like to see Hearts fans get hold of the club.
However……. Remember when Stephen Hendry was loudly proclaiming how much of a Hearts fan he was? (normally whilst pictured at Ibrox during a Rangers game, with a Hearts scarf round his neck, whilst his ‘favourites’ were playing at home at the same time). He must be worth a few bob – surely he could be persuaded to front some Fan buy out scheme, along with our esteemed first minister and George Foulkes?
Isn’t it great when you can shout loudly about celebrities putting their hands in their pockets, whilst not doing it yourself? 🙂
The SFL vote today had a feeling of inevitability about it. The problems of trying to find a solution that works for clubs as disparate as Celtic and East Stirling are significant.
Even within the SFL it is very difficult to reconcile the needs of a large SFL club like Dundee (from next season) and a tiny one like Albion Rovers. So I guess a good place to start would be to look at a similar footballing area, and see what we can learn.
Catalunya has a population of 7.6 million and 58 clubs. Scotland has a population of 5.3 million and 42 clubs. At first glance that seems fairly equable, with both countries having either slightly more or slightly less than 130,000 people for each club.
However you don’t have to drill down very far to see that there are significant anomalies .
Firstly in Scotland each and every one of those clubs is part of the National Leagues. Therefore there is still circa 130,000 people on average for each club.
In Catalunya the position is very different. The vast majority of clubs play in the Catalan federation league system. It is a pyramid towards the National Leagues, however at this moment there are only 12 clubs playing in the Spanish National system. That means that Catalunya has an average of 630,000 people for each club in the National League system.
In a pyramid, these numbers can vary a little, as there is no guarantee a team from Catalunya makes it through the play off’s , however they are a decent ball park guide.
This shows the problem we have in Scotland, too many clubs competing at a National level. I believe we need all the clubs we have, however wouldn’t it be better and fairer to have a system which allowed clubs to more readily find their level. I believe we can support 20/22 full time professional clubs. I don’t understand why we don’t for regional leagues below the full time ones. Incorporate the Junior clubs, should they want to join, and build a strong part time , semi professional regional set up below the full time clubs.
Anyone getting promoted to the top 2 leagues, has to commit to full time professional players, and has to show that it has the finances to support that.
bogsdollox
Re GS credentials for his SFA gig .
I may be wrong but I think I heard he was keeping the edge champion of his school 5 years running .
StevieBC says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 19:37
‘ ..If any CEO of the SFA had any passion about the Scottish game,’
—–
To be fair and accurate, we have to remember that the CEO of the SFA takes his instructions from the Board.
Certainly, he can suggest and advise on policy and courses of action, but ( like any other CEO) he cannot make any major policy decision under his own power, that hasn’t been okayed by a (majority) decision of the the Board first.
I criticise Regan for not emphatically steering the Board away from the devious course they adopted in striking underhand, secret deals with CG,and making a mockery of their role as legislators and administrators.
It may well be that he tried to steer them into proper paths, but was ordered to do what he was told, cobble up some kind of a way to keep RFC in the SPL or SFL, and find appropriate weasel words to dress up their actions as the right thing to do.
Or , resign ( or be sacked).
We won’t know for sure unless another wee pipe bursts and leaks begin to flow!
Re: the strips for the Cup Final, I would have liked nothing better than to see both clubs resplendent in their Green and White!
I wonder if there was a rise in the SFAs shredder bills in the last 18 months
barcabhoy says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 20:07
This shows the problem we have in Scotland, too many clubs competing at a National level
and+++++++
Anyone getting promoted to the top 2 leagues, has to commit to full time professional players, and has to show that it has the finances to support that.
_____________________
Have to disagree with you totally, barcabhoy.
It makes no difference how many clubs compete at a National level, as long as the leagues are not overloaded. The lower league set up right now is, to me, fine.
To suggest Alloa, as an example, has to become a full time club, would mean some of their players having to leave, as they are in secure jobs and at times well remunerated away from the football field. After a season and relegation, the club itself would potentially be left with contracted players they couldn’t afford to pay. To alter your argument slightly, they wouldn’t have “the finances to support that.”
The likes of Alloa and others in the lower leagues are run on a more sustainable business model than most of Scotland’s full time clubs. And abroad, especially in Northern Europe, aren’t many top tier sides part time?
Finally, taking your ponts to a conclusion of sorts, should a certain team from Ibrox, being full time, be promoted before the Clackmannan part time Wasps?
slimshady61 says: Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 19:00
==========================
Slim – I obviously respect your views and valued your contributions both to TSFM and RTC, but I’d like to respond to your comments re Tynecastle from a Hearts viewpoint, hopefully without being accused of whataboutery.
Firstly Celtic are by far the most vocal support that visits Tynecastle. Celtic also have the largest and most varied songbook of any visiting club, yet there appears to be such an antagonism between the two sets of fans that brings out the worst elements of the supports and the most vitriolic comments and songs.
It might surprise you but the “Gorgie (Billy) Boys” song and FTP chants have all but gone from Tynecastle. It only seems to surface with a very small hardcore (<100) of union jack carrying nutjobs in Sections N & G, (nearest the away fans) who use the visit of Celtic to vent their bigoted views, but it's mainly in response to the Celtic support renditions of their "Irish Heritage" songbook. I'm not saying anything about what songs are right, wrong, acceptable or unacceptable, but whether it the Soldier Song, BOTOB or a chorus of "up the 'ra" the response is the same. Unfortunately other Hearts fans around them do join in, though I'd suggest that the singing from the Celtic support is much more solid than that of Hearts.
I just wish that, just for once, the Celtic support would use the rest of their songbook and see if it helps diffuse the situation, or is it a case that there is an element in the Celtic support that wants to engage and goad the opposition into a response, as they see Hearts as the "mini huns".
The totally unwarranted assault on Neil Lennon was probably the low point in relations between the two supports and it has probably only recovered a little since then. I was at that game and the atmosphere was poisonous from the start. I know why that was from a Hearts point of view. Neil Lennon! A few of days before the game (it was near the end of the season), NL, let's say, planted the seed that both Motherwell and Hearts hadn't tried too hard in their games against Rangers. That was taken badly by the Hearts support, and may have been the trigger for what John Wilson did.
I had a look at KDS that night and while there was the expected indignation about the attack on NL, there were also a couple of posters who acknowledged that the collective vitriol from the Celtic fans that night was the worst they had seen since the 70s, even before the assault.
I don't have a problem if Celtic fans hate Hearts fans more than anyone else. Every set of fans has their bitterest enemies, whether it is Falkirk/Dunfermline, St Mirren/Morton or TRFC/Dundee Utd 🙂
barcabhoy says:
Anyone getting promoted to the top 2 leagues, has to commit to full time professional players,
————-
Would an exception be made for Queens Park
if not ,why not
If Cowdenbeath and Dumbarton can compete at this level so can Queens Park
Are we to be excluded if we refuse to change our traditions of 146 years
The right to compete should be achieved on the field of play not through
the weight of ones wallet
Slimshady,
Thank you for the compliments. I’m not aware of anything I have posted that has been removed by TSFM, so I have to assume I haven’t been deemed to have been disrespectful to anyone.
The recent exposure of Imran Ahmad as a poster on a Rangers fans forum, whilst he was still a Director of a Rangers subsidiary, and whilst he was in a position to tell the Chairman of the plc that he was going to be fired, shows the importance that is attached to these forums.
I am not accusing anyone specific of being an employee of Rangers, or Media House, however it would be naive to think this blog and RTC before it have not been targeted by those directly involved in the events.
Trolling can and does happen for a variety of reasons, and not all trolling is instigated by a specific side. However when it does happen, it usually follows a similar pattern and it is detrimental to the debate and turns people away from the site. Thats the aim of the trollers, and personal attacks and a high number of repetitive posts are a feature .
I think the strength of this site and RTC previously is that it attracts fans from many clubs. That is healthy and long may it continue
Assuming an SPL 2 is the final outcome, then this would be an appropriate theme tune
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXUQlmO-L8s
as we head ever faster towards franchise football
borussiabeefburg says:
———–
I posted before seeing your post which I totally agree with
To those who disagree with the idea of full time clubs only in the top two tiers, I can only offer that in my view it would improve the standard of football, as the fitter a player is the more likely he would be to maximise his technical abilities. This in turn would hopefully improve the standard of play overall
I have absolutely nothing against any club who run their affairs prudently
timtim says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 20:37
I think it was Kenny Shiels who was talking about why SPL teams don’t sign lower league players. He said the assumption was that SPL teams didn’t think the quality was there, and would therefore rather sign some useless foreigner. The real reason they didn’t sign lower league players is because the players themselves don’t want to sign! He’d enquired after a couple and they’d refused to turn full time because they were on very good wages at their full time jobs, thank you very much! He couldn’t match what they were on, and even if he could, they were wary of leaving a secure job for the insecurity of being a full time footballer!
The assumption that if a player is part time, then they are automatically inferior doesn’t seem to be borne why the way TRFC struggled against Stirling Albion consistently. Being part-time whilst at Uni didn’t seem to do Maurice Malpas any harm.
However, I take Barca’s main point – 2 top leagues and pyramid/regional below that would be a good starting point for football in this country.
mendacity I think you foresaw my next post
As Mr McCoist and his backroom staff proved on many occasions this season
the use of full time players is no guarantee for a fit or technichally superior product
Of course in theory Barca you are correct , but do we have enough clubs to form 2 divisions
with the financial ability to survive on a full time set up ,my opinion is without funding or a more equal shareout of monies this couldnt be achieved . What of those clubs who would be promoted from the p/t set up ,assuming promotion into these divisions is still open ,many of those players would face the choice of giving up their jobs to turn pro for what could be just 1 season . For Scotland I think we are best leaving the system as is
timtim says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 21:02
I think the worst aspect of mandatory full time players would probably be the dispiriting sight of the same old full time players being released by the relegated clubs from the top two leagues, and immediately signed by the promoted clubs. There was a similar situation happening in the SPL not so long ago when it seemed to be enshrined in the SPL rules that if you were a promoted club then you had to sign Jim Hamilton.
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 20:52
“However, I take Barca’s main point – 2 top leagues and pyramid/regional below that would be a good starting point for football in this country.”
I agree, but creating a breakaway SPL 2 is entirely the wrong way to go about it. The SPL has met precisely none of the goals that were set for it. The inly mistake Fergus McCann made was to sign on to the SPL.
barcabhoy says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 20:43
To those who disagree with the idea of full time clubs only in the top two tiers, I can only offer that in my view it would improve the standard of football, as the fitter a player is the more likely he would be to maximise his technical abilities. This in turn would hopefully improve the standard of play overall
==========
If the better standard of football is offered by the full time teams then they will naturally be in the top tiers… But a requirement that a club has to be full time to be in the top two tiers would run totally counter to the natural way a pyramid system should operate, on merit, whether full time or part time.
A great incentive to full time clubs is to know that if they don’t achieve a high standard, then they may be relegated and deservedly so!
Can someone remind me, please, what the board structure was/ is proposed to be for the Scottish Professional Football league in terms of the representation of the ‘Premier’ division and the ‘championship’ division? And voting weights on policy changes etc?
Or have these things not appeared in the public domain?
scapaflow14 says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 21:13
areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
The only mistake Fergus McCann made was to sign on to the SPL.
===================================================
In my view the only mistake McCann made was effectively settling out of court with the SFA over the Jim Farry affair. I would much have preferred to hear the QC chairing the tribunal completely damning the SFA in his summing up. By accepting the SFA’s offer to settle, we were denied that pleasure.
Incidentally, have the SFA learned the full lessons of those days? Just a thought.
Yes Carlisecelt, that was my main point from earlier on – it’s about the history and romance of the Cup. I remember this clash (between Hibs and Celtic) was oftimes referred to as the ‘battle of the Greens’.
Danish Pastry,
I am fully aware of the commercialisation of strips and exploitation of supporters but my the other main aspect of my point was not how we could influence our clubs’ choice of strip colour, but the stupidity of the SFA rule. I’m also sure that CFC (and its fans) would have preferred to wear their ‘home’ strips – says he, remembering the Coronation Cup Final!
scapaflow14 says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 21:13
I agree wholeheartedly. The unstoppable rush towards league reconstruction is what makes me wary of the whole set up. For years nothing has happened despite the game crying out for reconstruction, and now, all of a sudden it has to happen! Now! Immediately! Why not take our time and get it right? Not contravening rules about reconstruction requiring a year’s notice would be a good start.
easyJambo says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 20:36
I think the game where Lennon was attacked (although according to a court of law he wasn’t) must I think be seen in context of that whole season. Neil Lennon had gone from having bullets and bombs sent to him as well as numerous death threats and yet anycomment or gesture he made was blown out of all proportion by a media that seemed to have made him public enemy number one.
The more vulnerable of any society or indeed the most wicked can be easily swayed if day after day they are presented with quotes taken out of context along side a picture of an animated individual.
All that aside I’ve always found Tynecastle to be a very atmospheric stadium when full. The same goes for Fir Park and Tanadice it is just a sad fact that games in these stadia are generally 12:45 kick oof’s on a Saturday or Sunday.
I personally think you cannot beat a midweek game whether it is a Champions League, Cup replay or a league game.
Atmosphere is great within stadia and passion for your team is also great but fans should always be aware of their responsibilities to their club, themselves and the sport.
Lots of people know their rights but very few it seems know their responsibilities and that goes for society as a whole more than football fans.
I had the pleasure of spending a couple of hours in the company of a ‘Well fan a few weeks ago and I listened to his tales of following Motherwell in Europe and the contacts and friends that they had made. They were no different from the tales that other fans tell of their clubs and to me that is what our sport should be about; rivalry yes by all means and disagreements about ref decisions but cameraderie and friendship should also be included.
Killie’s inability to pay decent wages is due to the amount of empty seats I see at their stadium whenever their matches are televised, it’s the same up and down the country.
Why can’t Killie and the rest fill their grounds?
The standard of football on show?
Whenever Celtic are knocked out of a cup competition I honestly lose interest in it; Off the top of my head, I can’t remember who St Mirren beat to win the League Cup. For the past 20 odd years (maybe 30 odd) only 2 teams have had any chance of winning the SPL. The 3rd place team is usually so far behind they’d need to play on through the summer to match either of the big two’s total.
It now seems that one of the Glasgow teams may have had the deck stacked somewhat in their favour due to the malevolent money machinations of Minty and Mastertit.
It’s fairly obvious that Celtic will dominate the SPL for the foreseeable future, but the best of rest no longer has to better Celtic and the EBT Eleven to win the league, if they can match Celtic’s results against the other teams, then they will be four cup finals away from winning the SPL and as will their erstwhile stayaway fans. There’s now an extra European place up for grabs too.
I also think the novelty of a helicopter Sunday involving Celtic and would generate interest in our game from far and wide.
This is the wrong time to be tinkering with the structure of the leagues. We are in the initial stages of a process of correction. A ‘wait and see’ policy for the next few years is the best way forward.
Oh, they beat hearts 3-2, thanks Google.
justshatered says: Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 21:28
I think that you are probably correct with the reasons behind the emotion of the Celtic fans getting behind NL that night.
Re the assault. No-one, including Wilson and the court, ever denied that NL was assaulted. The issue that resulted in the not proven verdict was attachment of the “aggravated by religious prejudice” element. Wilson offered to plead guilty to the simple assault, but it was the Crown lawyers who declined the offer and insisted on keeping the aggravated charge.
IMO – Not Proven = I think you did it, but there is insufficient proof (corroboration required in Scotland)
barcabhoy says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 20:43
7 4 Rate This
To those who disagree with the idea of full time clubs only in the top two tiers, I can only offer that in my view it would improve the standard of football, as the fitter a player is the more likely he would be to maximise his technical abilities. This in turn would hopefully improve the standard of play overall
I have absolutely nothing against any club who run their affairs prudently
———–
As an aside, I remember the mid-’80s when IFK Gothenburg (with a team of amateurs) beat Barcalona in the first leg of the European Cup semi, only going out on penalties in Spain. Non-professional players who adopt a sporting lifestyle can be very effective. Professionals with too much time on their hands who enjoy a luxury lifestyle – and not a few bevvies – are not necessarily going to be that much fitter or more effective.
Professionalism is only worthwhile if the players are willing to train and live as athletes. Of the Div 3 matches I saw last season almost every other club looked at least as fit as, if not fitter than, the newco Rangers guys.
Charlotte must be bored tonight
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes
Allen & Overy appear to represent Imran and Charles. Chairman probably correct in appointing Pinsent to review. http://www.scribd.com/doc/143303661/Malcolm-Murray-Governs …
bect67 says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 21:27
2 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry,
I am fully aware of the commercialisation of strips and exploitation of supporters but my the other main aspect of my point was not how we could influence our clubs’ choice of strip colour, but the stupidity of the SFA rule. I’m also sure that CFC (and its fans) would have preferred to wear their ‘home’ strips – says he, remembering the Coronation Cup Final!
———-
I understand @bect67, and I’m very sympathetic to your point of view, in spite of my bewilderment at a black kit! It is a complete nonsense that both teams can’t each wear their own normal kit for this occasion.
barcabhoy says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 16:09
———————————————————————————————————————————
Spot on. The timing of Jack – in his various guises – is always textbook.
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes now
Oct 2012 Claims made, rebuttal but deliverabale outcomes counter proposed. Imran also invites Craig to sue http://www.scribd.com/doc/143309635/Settlements …
On F&PPeepil.
The evaluation of a prospective owner or other club official would not be so difficult if the entire backdrop was not pretty manky in the first place.
At times in the last 18 months you could not be faulted for thinking that the SFA are completely out of their depth when faced with a gang of spivs hell bent on getting in the door – why were they so ill-prepared for wide-boys? Not so long ago, they could rely to an extent on one or more of their number knowing a newcomer through the traditional Scottish business world, or alternatively through shared membership of the boolin’ gowf, or the ludge – and it would usually be ok. Now though they’ve had to be more ‘professional’ internally and in their public statements on these types of things – and it aint going well, and worser still, it aint going well mostly because of their own club.
Mr Keevins made an unusually excellent point last night on SSB, when Saint Sir Fergus left Celtic, he handed over to the former governor of the Bank of England. Now maybe that’s just a measure of how unimpeachable Celtic have to be to avoid censure, but lets face it Sir David did not do the same for TRFC. And for me, it is really significant that TRFC had a culture around them which attracted non F&PP – that really needs to be ‘outed’.
So, the SFA’s own processes were gubbed by their own club because their own club were in to their haw-maws in corrupt individuals and, the corollary is, for me, that the SFA were not averse to that type of thing. Look at the list of team managers, CE and the chairman – for ten years and more they have been hand in hand. They were part of the world that SDM, CO,Walter, Eck and Smudger were part of.
How were they meant to police themselves.
Moving forward, it needs to be in the culture and behaviours of the clubs. Think about what Mr Keevins said for once. If the clubs see it as their responsibility to do honest business with decent people (not saints, just normal people will do) at the helm, then the SFA should have no such problems in the future.
iamacant says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 19:57
http://www.scribd.com/doc/143276001/Liberty-Capital-Draft-Funding-Letter-Oct-2010
http://www.scribd.com/doc/143277238/Proof-of-Funds-October-2010
—————
I note from twitter that its all kicking off and I’m way behind.
Ian?s (or anyone alse) if you are reading, the following is a post from Charlotte made to TSFM 13 May 0003. It mentions the FSA upon which you provided some useful guidance. The above document (Proof of funds) stresses the FSA connection at the bottom of page 1. Can you see a relevance with Charlotte’s post below. Not much to go on but too much happening to investigate myself further currently.
“Thanks for the info. I just wondered if Jack had a relationship with SDM then a word would surely have been whispered in his direction.
Then again, perhaps Craig was the better client – given their mutal appreciation for brokers and Jacks keen interest in hunting out a takeover target with FSA licenses which could be exported via the Caymans.
I’m not suggesting anything untoward with the above, merely trying to understand why Jack didn’t just pick up the phone to SDM.
On the 8th of September 2009”
http://i.imgur.com/x3EKdQr.jpg
And so Charlottes agenda is explained ……..
72 hours …….. or he (CW) hits the button ………… (is that the reset button ….. no …. the nuclear one …. !
so Charlotte is Craig’s (new) chosen one …… !
easyJambo says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 21:58
Of course you are correct regarding the verdict but why that charge was ever brought was beyond me.
The only person who said there was a religous phrase used I think was the Hearts security chief. Neil Lennon never heard anything nor did any of the backroom team.
This essentially turned it into one mans word against another which as we all know will result in a ‘not guilty’ verdict every day of the week.
This was a high profile case which tried and spectacularly failed to achieve its goal.
A simple charge of assult should have been brought.
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 2m
@EdgarBlamm @ellen_coyle @Sir_Barold @rangerstaxcase @CQN Wait for the ending, I haven’t started on the other bad guys yet.
Did’nt CG visit Greece ….. at the time of important neg’s with SFL handled by Murray instead … at the time we questioned timing ….. He said it was to ‘arrange’ a footy match …… !
Rangers FC Official @RFC_Official 6m
RT to join us in congratulating manager Ally McCoist on winning #SFL3 Manager of the Year. #TogetherRFC pic.twitter.com/33hV5Th8uN
OMG ……… run ….. run as fast as you can ….. don’t look back ….
CtH ….Wait for the ending, …. I haven’t started on the other bad guys yet.
#JailTime #Flee
slimshady61 says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 19:00 (Edit)
TSFM says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 18:12
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Fair comment TSFM but anyone who has read Barcabhoy’s contributions over more than a year would agree that they have been universally informative and contributed handsomely to the debates, without ever being what you term “less than respectful”.
Utterly nonsensical mistaken (?) inference.
BB’s comments today were not what I referred to earlier as disrespectful.
Earley is implying that Green was threatening to have Whyte killed by a couple of Greeks?! And here’s me thinking he went to Greece to sign some dodgy journeyman midfielder.
Another Charlotte offering:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/143309635/Settlements
It would appear that the urbane Mr Ahmad was losing his cool back on 29 October 2012 and if the content of the letter is correct it certainly seems as if Ahmad is admitting that he has been privvy to claims being made by CW and AE and indeed threatens them they could be facing 14 years inside for blackmail by extortion.
I wonder if he ever reported it to the police who would then presumably know before the flotation date what exactly CW and AE had been claiming although I can see nothing in the Rangers AIM prospectus that even remotely touches on anything as serious as this.
Even if there was nothing of substance in the CW and AE claims I might have thought a ‘key employee’ of Rangers International and possibly the CEO might have ensured the prospectus referred to a matter involving blackmail and possible 14 year jail sentence especially when Ahmad states in the letter, allegedly sent by him to AE: ‘I’ve always maintained without CW shares we wouldn’t have completed this transaction. The key point though is at no point did we ever agree to pay Craig anything’.
now this is getting interesting, it truly is armageddon, infighting at TSFM, SPL/SFL chaos and threats, and greek hitmen in the big hoose, my flabbber is truly gasted at todays blog comments.
ecobhoy says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 23:04
I raised that point before – even if the claim or threat from CW was completely spurious, if it came before the IPO and was not resolved it should have been disclosed, omitting is in conflict with the requirements of a public company and is fraudulent. Be interesting if there is a police report on it? that would be a very difficult record to deny.
eeh, by ‘eck it werent greeks aiden lad !! Ah said t’Imran, ah said we need a couple of GEEKS to sort out this craig whyte situation.
newtz says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 22:42
“so Charlotte is Craig’s (new) chosen one”
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That’s the way it reads newtz. I’d still be tempted to reserve judgement since there is a level of self incrimination. Why ‘out’ yourself at this stage. If Charlotte is effectively CW, does he just not recognise the level of self incrimination in the ‘settlements’ document. There could be more twists yet.
pau1mart1n says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 23:16
probably Ahmad asked him to hire a couple of “geek IT men” to sort out the computer leaks and CG misheard him 🙂
bayviewgold says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 23:12
ecobhoy says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 23:04
I raised that point before – even if the claim or threat from CW was completely spurious, if it came before the IPO and was not resolved it should have been disclosed, omitting is in conflict with the requirements of a public company and is fraudulent. Be interesting if there is a police report on it? that would be a very difficult record to deny.
==============================
i can’t remember the exact wording but was there not a get out clause in the IPO that allowed the directors to ignore any info they thought was “immaterial”.
Paul McConville opined that Greens idea of what was immaterial would probably be different to that of an institutional investor.
EJ
As a Celtic fan I’ve often been aware of a wee bit of sectarian abuse being called out at many SPL grounds. My worst experience by quite a long way was at Falkirk, but I’m sure Falkirk fans would – with some justification like you – say that it is a very small minority of idiots who get involved in that.
Tynecastle has never struck me in that way at all in over forty years of visiting that ground, despite the rather distorted West of Scotland world-view that sees Hearts as the “Edinburgh Rangers”.
I am also aware that many fans all over Scotland are often smitten with what I call “Hugh Sproat Syndrome”. Those of a certain age will remember that Motherwell and Ayr United keeper Hughie used to wear either a blue or orange jersey when playing against Celtic and a great big emerald green one when playing against Rangers.
Great banter and not to be confused (usually by fans of Celtic and Rangers rushing to be offended) with sectarian behaviour.
There’s Charlotte either confirming ‘she’ is closely related to, if not actually, Craig Whyte, or certainly leading us to believe this:
http://i.imgur.com/HebNyLo.jpg
😉
y4rmy says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 23:02
Earley is implying that Green was threatening to have Whyte killed by a couple of Greeks?! And here’s me thinking he went to Greece to sign some dodgy journeyman midfielder.
=================================================================
I’ve just got to that bit – this is getting unbelievable – and I’m not talking about any contracts being issued even for a dodgy Greek footballer 🙂
The text from AE’s Iphone to Ahmad can be checked no probs to see if it is genuine or not and was actually sent, All the details are there for the cops: 29 Oct 2012, at 08:16.
It spells out exactly what CW wants from CW to settle and if genuine it should have been an issue raised in the AIM Prospectus. In fact if Cenkos had been made aware of it then it’s really hard to see how they could have let the flotation continue. Even if CW didn’t have a leg to stand on I would have thought it should have been in the AIM Document. There is a precedent with a legal action involving the players’ and TUPE which even though the AIM document records it as unlikely to cost the company anything but management time, it’s still in the Prospectus.
I have no doubt now that Charlotte is acting on behalf of AE or CW or both. If it’s only AE he might not be a tape fiend like CW so there might be no tapes but if I was sitting in someone’s shoes or maybe a few people’s shoes I wouldn’t be betting my penny share windfall that there wasn’t a tape.
The text, if genuine, is much more damaging than the LBC because it predates the flotation. And that man Rizvi pops up again. I think I’ll have an early night and really read this stuff in the morning because I think it ranks pretty highly in terms of significance.
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 22:21
6 0 Rate This
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes now
Oct 2012 Claims made, rebuttal but deliverabale outcomes counter proposed. Imran also invites Craig to sue http://www.scribd.com/doc/143309635/Settlements …
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Interesting that Craig (I can call him that now, we seem like old friends :-D) is asking for his £167,500 back. Is this the same amount that Charles was claiming he didn’t know where to send it to?
The significance in tonight’s revelations from Charlotte is that Ahmad is clearly aware of the claims before the IPO. His email of 29th October 2012, the IPO was December 20th.
The letter from Ahmad’s lawyer, claiming that his clients ” do not believe they have ever seen the letter” is to use an old phrase . ” A non denial denial”
First heard in the 1974 all time great film with Lemmon and Mattheau, The Front Page. Which is where I think most of the rest of the Rangers farce will be played out.
As an aside, I hope Cammy Bell’s agent is smart enough to ensure his client has a variety of get out clauses
Charlotte tweeted this on 18 May
“Prominent Rangers Supporters Spokesperson sends me this, thinking I’m Craig!!! “Been an admirer of your recent work. Would be good to talk”
Then she tweets this just now.
http://i.imgur.com/HebNyLo.jpg
Either she definitely is CW or she has somehow set up a mirror e:mail address so she gets all his mail.
bect67 says:
Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 21:27
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You can be sure that Celtic have no wish to wear anything other than the hoops in a cup final. In the last final against Hibs in 2001, Celtic had to wear a change strip yet again but changed into the hoops to receive the cup itself.
it just seems that Celtic are always the team that has to change – against St Mirren in the League Cup this year, against Kilmarnock last year, against Hibs in 2001, twice against Dunfermline later in that decade.
One could be forgiven for wondering why this is the case – who decides which team is the home team? When is the “draw” made for the cup final itself? Why don’t we get to see it? It seems now that it is every bit as important as the draw for any other round.
Does Campbell Ogilvie do it by himself or does Darryl Broadfoot help him? Or indeed is Sandy Bryson pulled in too to make sure it’s absolutely fair? Do they then call Hugh Dallas on his Swiss hotline to ask his opinion?
Making one team change demeans the final. Beyond that, the hoops are famous worldwide and frankly one of the iconic sights in football. Like it or not, they are one of the biggest assets Scottish football has, take them away and people watching round Europe wouldn’t have a clue what game is taking place. Celtic in the hoops would be instantly recognisable to anyone tuning in from a football-savvy country.
We sure know how to downplay the Scottish game.
A final thought, you could do worse than put a few bob on an assistant referee behind one of the goals awarding a penalty on Sunday. Couldn’t possibly say for which team but having seen the performances of Bobby Madden recently, I would say it’s a stick on.
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 1m
Should have asked for access to RFFF-seat on board as reward,however will not pretend to be someone else.Ever sent an email to CW? #BeAfraid
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 3m
Should have asked for access to RFFF-seat on board as reward,however will not pretend to be someone else.Ever sent an email to CW? #BeAfraid