The Existence of Laws

ByTrisidium

The Existence of Laws

A Blog by James Forrest for TSFM

I am a socialist, and as a socialist I believe in the fundamental goodness of people. Some people find that hard to believe when they read the stuff I write.

I published my first novel recently, on politics and the corrupting nature of it, and it is a deeply cynical book, a book where no-one has clean hands come the end. What has surprised some of those who’ve read it is that I didn’t focus on the lies and smears of the right, but the hypocrisy and deceit of those who claim to be of the left.

Corruption, you see, doesn’t respect political boundaries or points of view. It’s like rainwater. It finds every crack, and gets in there.

My political beliefs revolve around two apparently paradoxical elements; the belief in the inherent decency of people and the need for a strong, and powerful, state. I believe the second underpins the first, and this brings me into conflict with a lot of people, some on the left and some on the right. Too many people see the state as inherently evil, as something that interferes too much in the lives of ordinary people. As something suffocating.

Yet the state exists to protect us. It exists to provide a safety net. It exists to regulate and to oversee. If the state is made up of bad people, if the gears of society are captured by those with malicious or selfish intent, the results are obvious; war, corruption, chaos.

The vast majority of our problems in the modern age can be neatly summed up in two lines from Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming”, which I used to open my novel. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”

We live in a time when those who are protecting their own interests have assumed such power that they’ve cowed the rest of us. They have become a law unto themselves. They have changed the nature of the game, because they have sapped our will to the extent some barely put up a fight anymore. The weak get weaker, and the strong use their strength to crush the rest even more. It is a vicious struggle, a downward spiral.

Society is held together not only by the endeavour and common interests of its citizens but by a collection of laws. We elect the people who make those laws. They do so in our name, and we can remove that right every four years. That is a powerful thing, and we do not appreciate it enough. The present corruption exists because we allow it to exist.

The people around me continue to puzzle over my uncommon interest in the affairs of a football club on the west of Glasgow. My own club plays in the east end. I tell those who ask that my primary interest in the goings-on at the club calling itself Rangers is no longer about football; how could it be, after all? With promotion this year they are still a full two divisions below us, emasculated, skint, weak and unstable. If we were fortunate enough to draw them in cup competition the match would be over, as a tie, by the halfway point … in the first half.

In footballing terms they are an utter irrelevance.

Rangers is more than a football club to me. They are a symbol. Their unfolding calamity is an on-going outrage. What is happening there, what is being allowed to happen, is an offense to decency. It is a stain on the face of our country.

In short, it is a scandal. It is a scandal without parallel in sport.

Yet it’s not just a sports story either. If it was, I might not be so focussed on it. What is happening at Rangers is a colossal failure of governance. It is a damning indictment against the very people who are supposed to oversee our game. It is a disgraceful abrogation of responsibility from those at the top, those who claim to be “running things.”

If this is not a failure of governance it is a result of corruption at the heart of our national sport. It says they are bought and paid for, and I will say no such thing here.

So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. We’ll say instead that what they are is weak, indecisive, inept and disconnected from reality.

It reminds me of our political class, which has become insular and ignorant about what the public wants, and what it needs. It’s not a wonder parties like UKIP can achieve national vote shares of 25% at local elections. Nigel Farage strikes me as a dog-whistle politician, the kind who knows how to appeal to a select group of voters. He is little different to Charles Green, the man who beguiled Rangers fans into handing over large amounts of money, because he was “standing up for the club.” It is easy to do what he did, easy to do what Farage is doing.

Real leadership requires toughness. Say what you like about the Tories, but they have that in spades. Yeats was right about the worst being full of passionate intensity. Green was. Farage is. Cameron and Osborne personify it in their political outlook.

It is easy to be cowed by blunt force politics, and by “tough talking Yorkshire men” and venomous speeches about “strivers and skivers.” The politics of divide and conquer is the oldest form of politics there is, and it’s no surprise to see it practiced by some of the vested interests in the game here in Scotland. Yet, lest we forget … something significant happened last year. The maligned and the ignored, the weak and the voiceless found something they never realised they had. They discovered that, in a very real sense, the power was in their hands.

Last year, the fans rose up when the governing bodies and the media went all-out to save Rangers from the self-inflicted wounds caused by a decade of cheating, malpractice and ineptitude. I have no problem calling that what it was.

What happened at Rangers seemed incredible, but it was all too predictable, and some of us had been talking about it for years before it hit. The Association seemed caught in the headlights but it would amaze me if they really were as insular and ignorant as they appeared. They must have known how bad the outlook was for Rangers. They just chose to ignore it.

They were aided and abetted by a thoroughly disreputable media, a collection of cowards and compromisers, charlatans and frauds, masquerading as journalists, but who long ago laid aside any claim to be bold investigators and settled for commenting on events as they unfolded. More often than not, with their ill-informed opinions, sometimes due to weaknesses in intellect and others wilfully ignorant, they failed even in that.

Entire newspapers became PR machines for crooks and swindlers. They aided in the scam because they didn’t do their jobs, some because they were lazy, some because they were incompetent and others because they wanted a seat at the table and were willing to sacrifice whatever integrity they once had in exchange for one.

That all of this was embraced by the Rangers fans is amazing to me. They trusted when they should have been asking questions. They closed their eyes, covered their ears and sang their battle tunes at the top of their voices so they wouldn’t have to hear anything they didn’t like. As incredible as I found it then, and still find it now – and now, even more so, when they have already seen the results of it once – I find it pathetic too, and I do feel pity for some of them.

A lot of these people are genuine football fans, and nothing more. They have no interest in the phony narrow nationalism, or the over-blown religion, or the notion of supremacy which manifested itself in a ludicrous statement from McCoist when interviewed recently on Sky.

Some of the Rangers fans look at their team of duds, kids and journeymen, they look at a boardroom of cowards and crooks, they look at a failing manager in his first (and last) job in the game and at a dark future and are not in the least bit impressed by, or interested in, the chest-out arrogance espoused in those ridiculous words “we are the people.” They know full well that their present crisis was made by men like McCoist, and they understand that pretentious posturing is not an act born of strength, but a scrambling around in the gutter, and a symptom of weakness.

They understand their position, and they hate it. And because they care about Rangers, because they value the club, because they cherish those things that made it a great Scottish institution, they want that back. They understand that before the Union Jack waving, Sash singing, poppy wearing, Nazi saluting, Orange element became the public face of their support Rangers meant something else, and that, above all things, is what pains them the most.

People do not hate Rangers. When the country appeared to turn its back last year, they were turning the back on favouritism and the bending of rules. Yet it would be a lie to say that there is not an element of dislike in the gleeful mockery of many rival fans.

But they don’t hate Rangers either. They hate the version of it around which a certain section of the support continues to dance. They hate the version which hates, and so too do many, many, many Rangers supporters, and they definitely deserve better.

David Murray chose not to openly challenge that version. Indeed, he encouraged certain strands of it to flourish and grow, with his “Britishness Days” and his effort to turn the club into the “team that supports the troops.” Other clubs have done as much, if not more, for the British Army than the one that plays out of Ibrox. Other clubs have given more money. Other clubs have lent their support to those on the front lines. They just chose to do it with respect, and with class, and with dignity. They chose to do it in private, understanding that there eventually comes a tipping point between looking after the ends of the soldiers and using them to promote your own.

The army has not battened on to Rangers. Rangers has battened on to them, and although it is unclear when an altruistic motive became darker, what started out as a gesture of solidarity is now used to entrench division and promote a notion of superiority.

Craig Whyte took over from Murray and immediately understood the lure of the “dog whistle.” He knew too that the media would accept whatever he told them, without question, and as he spoke up for “Rangers traditions” he made sure the lunatic fringe was well onside. He met face to face with the hard-core extremists in the support first and made them his praetorian guard. They spoke up for him until the day the club entered administration.

So, whereas Murray pandered to them and Whyte used them to further his own ends, it was only a matter of time before someone suggested to Charles Green that he could use the same tactics to win over the support. He went even further and blatantly promoted and encouraged this mind-set, and stoked the hate and nonsense to frightening new heights. The same people who cheered Whyte to the rafters jumped on board the Big Blue Bus and the results are clear.

Through all of it, the ordinary Rangers fan has seen his club buffered against the rocks, battered, broken, smashed to smithereens and sunk. Now there’s a big hole in the side of the lifeboat, and they are terrified that further tragedies await.

They are right to be concerned. Much of the media is still not telling them what they need to know. The people in charge of their club – the owners who have lied, the former hack who covered up the truth about Whyte and now acts as a mouthpiece for Green, the “club legends” who are content to sup with the devil and take his greasy coin when they should be standing toe-to-toe with the fans – are trying to silence those members of the press who do have facts to present.

How many times now have media outlets been banned from Ibrox for daring to report the truth? The manager who demanded the names of a committee last year defends those inside the walls who are desperate to keep secret the things that are going on. He is either an unprincipled coward, or he is, himself, bought and paid for. The fans suffer for it.

The “inconvenient truth” is still being kept from them, and this denies them any chance to play an active role in their club. Indeed, it is all too possible that they’ve passed a point of no return, and that their club is heading for a new liquidation event and it can no longer be stopped.

In either case, their power has been eroded to the point at which they must feel they have nothing left to do but stand back and watch what happens next.

They are wrong. I am a socialist. I believe in the inherent good of people. I think the ordinary decent Rangers fans are the only people left who can save their club … and the means by which they will do it is as simple as it could be.

They must stand up for “big government.” They must embrace the need for a “strong state.” They must lobby the SFA, and they must trust the SFA and they must get the SFA to follow its own rules and thereby save them from any further harm.

There is a tendency amongst some Celtic fans to see our governing bodies as pro-Rangers. If it is true then those running our game are ruining Scottish football without benefiting the thing they love more. The incalculable harm that has been done to Rangers in the last 20 some months is a direct result of the subservient media and the willingness of the football authorities to be “deaf, dumb and blind.” Those who believe this has actually helped the Ibrox club have not been paying attention in class. It has irrevocably scarred them, and it may yet have played a hand in destroying them once and for all, as a force if not as a club entirely.

For years, the SFA sat and did nothing as a club in their association operated a sectarian signing policy. They did nothing whilst the fans sang sectarian songs. In their failure to act they strengthened those elements of the Rangers support, instead of isolating, alienating and eventually helping to eliminate those who saw that club as a totem pole of division and hate. Their failure over EBT’s, and their lack of scrutiny, led to one of the greatest scandals in the history of sport, and I say that with no equivocation at all. The testimony of their registrations officer in the Lord Nimmo Smith investigation was a disgrace and in years to come it will rank as one of the most disreputable and damaging moments in the association’s history.

The most egregious failures of all were the failures in the so-called “fit and proper person” tests, which allowed first Whyte and then Charles Green to assume controlling positions at Ibrox. They will pass the buck and say the responsibility lies with the club itself, in much the same way as they are content to let the club investigate itself at the present time, but any neutral who looks at this stance knows it is unprincipled and spineless. It’s like letting the defence set the terms at a trial. It is foxes investigating the chicken coop.

It is a blueprint for corruption, and a recipe for disaster.

It is now too late for the SFA to declare Green “unfit”, as it was too late when they finally slapped that title on Craig Whyte. He and his allies own Rangers, and they control its destiny. They can push the club to the wall if they choose, in the final extremity, if that gets them what they want. The time for changing that is past. The damage has already been done. The barbarians are not at the gates. They are inside the walls, and sacking the city.

The SFA will be forced to punish Rangers for the sins of the owners, for the second time in as many years, and whilst it is right that the club face up to that, all the better to send a message to other clubs and other owners, the SFA cannot be allowed to slither off the hook here as though this was none of their doing. Green will skip off into the sunset. Craig Whyte has yet to pay his fine. These people never cared about Scottish football and they don’t care now.

The SFA are supposed to. Our governing body is supposed to govern, for the good of the whole game, and not as a support system for a single club. What they have allowed to happen on their watch is absolutely shameful and if the people responsible were men at all, with any sense of accountability, they would resign en masse.

They can pretend ignorance, but only the truly ignorant would accept that. Craig Whyte was not inside Ibrox a week before RTC and other sites were dismantling his entire business history, with some of the people here doing the work the SFA would not. Whyte himself claims to have made the governing bodies aware of the scale of what was facing the club, and they did nothing at all. Heads should have rolled a year ago.

In October of last year, on this very site, I posted an article in which I wrote:

“Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.

To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.”

There are times when it is fun to be right, but this is not one of them. It is dispiriting and disquieting to have been so on the nose. It scares the Hell out of me, as someone who loves football in this country, to have seen this matter clearly when the people running our game apparently either did not or chose to ignore very real, very obvious, concerns. The Internet Bampots had no special insight or access to information that was denied those at the SFA. We just weren’t prepared to ignore it and pretend that it wasn’t there. There was too much at stake.

I have become convinced that things will never change until the Rangers supporters join us in demanding the full and unabridged truth here. They need to come out from under the bed, and confront their fears. They need to be willing to take the consequences, so that their club can emerge clean from this, and start again, with all this behind them.

And it can all happen with one simple thing. The application of the rules.

The existence of laws comes down to a simple principle; they protect society from those elements within it who are interested only in their own selfish ends. We may cry out at those rules and regulations we see as “restrictive”, but the law was not made to restrict our freedoms but to protect them. Had the SFA years ago acted against Rangers sectarian signing policy, and the songs from the stands, the club would not have mutated to the point where there was no help on hand when they needed it the most. Let’s not kid ourselves about this; Whyte and Green were only able to grab control because the club itself has a dreadful image which put off respectable and responsible buyers. The SFA could have helped change that perception years ago and did nothing.

The SFA could have conducted its own investigation into who Craig Whyte was. They could have asked David Murray for full disclosure when he was running up £80 million of debt, a sum of money that is beyond belief for a single club in a small provincial backwater league. Had they had the guts to do that the club would never have spent itself into oblivion and forced the hand of Lloyds, which led indirectly to their ignominious end.

The SFA could have fully investigated Charles Green and the means by which he took control, instead of rushing through a license. His emergence at the last minute was transparently suspicious and designed to force them into a quick decision, but they did not have to bow to that pressure by making one, without being in possession of the facts, as it is now 100% clear they were not.

Had they asked for every document, had they insisted on legal affidavits and personal securities from investors (and this would have been perfectly legitimate and is common place in other licensing areas) none of this would have come to pass. After Craig Whyte they had a moral responsibility to the rest of the game to get this one right and their failure is without parallel in the history of Scottish football.

As the club hurtles towards a new abyss, names are cropping up which should send a shudder down the spines of every honest, genuine supporter of not only Rangers but every team in the land. The SFA claims that a strong Rangers is essential for the sake of Scottish football, but they have been extraordinarily lax in protecting that club, and therefore the game, from destructive elements. Craig Whyte and Charles Green had dubious personal histories, and the acquisition of the club itself was mired in controversy and scandal. Yet it was allowed.

Neither Green nor Whyte were known to have operated outside the law, yet neither was worthy of trust or stood up to scrutiny. Neither man should ever have been granted the status as fit and proper persons to assume a role in our national sport, and if it is true of them what can we say about the three men who are, presently, being touted as the Great White Hopes for a bright, new Rangers future; Dave King and the Easdale brothers?

King recently cut a deal with the South African government over an on-going dispute over taxes. In other words, he pled guilty and accepted the central plank of their argument; that for years he was engaged in wilfully with-holding vast revenues from their Treasury. The media does not like to put it like that, and the SFA seems willing to ignore it utterly, and this would be scandalous enough. But it does not stop there. HRMC rules – as well as the SFA’s own governance documents – actually bar him from serving on the board of the new club.

Last but not least, aside from being an admitted tax cheat, King is also awaiting trial in South Africa, having been indicted for corruption, forgery and fraud – 300 charges in total. Yet as recently as last week, we were told that the Association was willing to look at him and consider representations from his lawyers. This is almost beyond belief.

If Dave King’s position is untenable, and he is yet to be convicted of a crime, what can we say about the position of the Easdale’s? One of the two brothers, Sandy, has already served jail time. He is a convicted criminal, a fraudster nonetheless, who’s “victim” was the same Treasury who are appealing one case involving the old club and liquidated it entirely over another. This is precisely the kind of “businessman” the fit and proper person test was supposed to weed out, and if the SFA holds its nose here the reek will stink out the halls at Hampden for decades. If King or the Easdale’s are judged fit and proper, then who exactly is the test for? What exactly do you have to do to fail it? How do we explain the existence of laws, when these are not applied?

Pascal says “Law without force is impotent.” The SFA’s weakness has allowed one version of Rangers to destroy itself, and has allowed an existential risk to another. If the next power at Rangers resides in South Africa or Greenock I can say with some certainty that the Association is engaged in an even more dangerous roll of the dice, because the surfacing of fresh scandal will be an ever present risk, and will be of the sort no-one will survive.

The damage to Scottish football will take years to heal. The Scottish game has been through enough trauma. It does not need more. It barely survived the last calamity to hit Rangers. The rest of us should not be forced to pay the price of the next one.

The greater damage will be done to Rangers itself. If the Green crisis ends in another collapse – as it well might; another administration event is a certainty, and another liquidation is a much more likely prospect than it was before 14 February 2012 – the club will once again have to start from the bottom, and this time the reputational damage will be impossible to repair. The club faces internal strife, sporting sanctions, and criminal investigations. The last takeover might be declared a fraud. the Whyte takeover will almost certainly be. The share issue might be invalid, as well as criminal, and the people involved may well end up in jail. Lawsuits could follow from investors, there could be as yet unknown consequences from the Upper Tier Tax Tribunal (thank you Brogan Rogan for pointing out what those might be) and a host of other issues.

Rangers fans must be the loudest voices here. How do you want the world to view your club in years to come? Do you want one to be proud of, or one forever associated with the shame and disgrace of these days gone by? The one which bailed out on its tax obligations. The one with supporters who disgrace your very name. The one which allowed Whyte and Green to take you to the cleaners and send you to the wall. The one which handed over control to one convicted criminal and another awaiting trial. Do you want to be reborn clean, or mired in the muck?

David Murray destroyed your financial stability. He made it so no bank would issue you a line of credit and no investor of note wanted to buy. Craig Whyte liquidated you. Charles Green has cast the future of the Newco into doubt and acted in a manner which has annihilated your credibility with the financial markets for decades to come.

Between these three men, they have taken everything from you, and the press and the people who run the game here, as well as some of your own blindly ignorant fans, have allowed them to do all this and more. Now they conspire to hand the keys to Ibrox to other men of questionable character, who will wreck further havoc on the reputation of the club.

The Scottish Football Association has damaged the game it was supposed to protect, but above all else their greatest failure of governance was a failure to protect one of its biggest clubs from its own excesses and those of its owners.

Rangers fans, the SFA have betrayed your trust, more than the trust of any other club. What you must insist on now is full disclosure and transparency from the powers that be in Hampden. The SFA has to end the charade of allowing your club to handle this in-house. They must hand everything over to an outside agency – whether a legal one, or a footballing body like UEFA – and they must demand co-operation and answers, and threaten to withhold the license if they don’t get them.

You must not be afraid of that. You must embrace it. The men with their hands on the gears at Ibrox are motivated by money, and nothing more. If the license is withdrawn their “investments” are worthless. They cannot risk that.

You must demand that the rules on fit and proper persons are applied, and where necessary even made stronger, to prevent your club falling into unclean hands. You must demand that they protect your reputation from further damage, by getting this all out there and acting accordingly, even if that means your club does not play football for at least a year.

You must be willing to suck it all up, knowing that what will emerge is a Rangers which has been cleansed and moves forward with honour, and dignity, led by custodians who treasure it rather than those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

The Rangers Standard has recently emerged as a genuine voice for those in your support who are sick and tired of what Rangers has become, and want it restored to something that is worthy of the love and respect in which you hold it. On that website, there are discussions about the kind of club you seek to be and about whether the institution of Rangers is about more than just football.

If that’s how you feel about it then you know it is about more than how many titles the club can claim, about more than just results on the park, about more than just the game. Rangers, like Celtic, is an idea. It has to be something you are proud of.

I am a socialist, but one with a fevered imagination and a tendency to write very dark things. This piece won’t have been good reading for some of you (perhaps all of you haha!) but I think there’s more hope in here than in other things I’ve written.

In spite of everything that’s come to pass, I still believe. I believe in Scottish football. I believe in our system of football governance, even if those who are working in it are failing on some level.

In society, as much as we strain against them, laws exist for our protection. To fail to enforce them is to leave us at the mercy of those elements who would do us harm. The rules of football ensure the protection of all clubs, not just a few.

The failure to enforce the rules has never had graver consequences than here in Scotland.  The irony is that bending and breaking them has hurt the one club those violations were designed to help. It cannot be allowed to happen again.

The rules must be applied without fear or favour.

The best must find their conviction, and their passionate intensity once more.

James is a co-editor of the On Fields of Green Blog http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/

About the author

Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

5,802 Comments so far

Lord WobblyPosted on8:15 pm - Jun 1, 2013


smartie1947 says:
Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 19:14
11 2 Rate This
Barcabhoy @18.09
100% in agreement with above.
Notwithstanding his limited skills as a footballer (and Smith must score!) it was the smugness he displayed ad nauseum as a pundit and instant opinion-giver that really stuck in my craw.
How many times between admin and liquidation early last year did Sky Sports News trot him out in front of Ibrox or Hampden to push the establishment club propaganda line, when blind Pugh could realise that he was talking crap.
Wouldn’t wish his financial predicament on his family, but if the negative publicity means I see less of him on television from now on, well that suits me fine.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don’t imagine it’ll make one iota of difference to his punditry work unless he elects to pull back on it. He’s going to have to earn a crust and I assume those that engaged him before will do so again.

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newtzPosted on8:27 pm - Jun 1, 2013


easyJambo says:

Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 18:30

Nothing of any consequence on this audio I’m afraid
———————————————————————

Really ? …………

How about it appears from the conversation that this is post his visit to Zurich and Athens ….
Green made the visit in July 2012 …. !

Post June 14th 2012 ……. !

Still of the same opinion @eJ

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twopandaPosted on8:29 pm - Jun 1, 2013


At least Charlotte has brought SFA back into the frame
PR MSM have studiously avoided SFA references in their recent `excitement`

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ecobhoyPosted on9:11 pm - Jun 1, 2013


newtz says:
Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 20:27

How about it appears from the conversation that this is post his visit to Zurich and Athens ….
Green made the visit in July 2012 …. ! Post June 14th 2012 ……. !
===============================================

Even with headphones I’m struggling to follow the audio – can you explain how you have dated the conversation as I’m not picking that up?

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chipm0nkPosted on9:13 pm - Jun 1, 2013


Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 19:22

In simplistic terms, and I’m a simple person, once they run out of money they have to either bring more in or cease to trade.

That means

1, Selling assets to bring that money in.

2, Obtaining credit to bring that money in.

3, Having another share issue to bring more money in.

4, Obtain donations from wealthy people.

If they go into administration then the only difference it makes is that an administrator would be trying to do the above rather than the board doing it themselves.

There seems to be a perception that when the business runs out of money it will simply go into administration, fair do’s but to what end. There has to be a plan to take it back out again. If there isn’t then it is simply wound up.

The way I see it just now, as a guess, is that if things keep going the way they have been then the PLC will sell the Ltd Company. However the Ltd Company would still have to have a sustainable business model for there to be any point in someone buying it. That would possibly mean getting rid of all of the top players and slashing the wage bill, I suppose an administrator could do that. The last one didn’t seem keen on that idea though.

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angus1983Posted on9:13 pm - Jun 1, 2013


jean7brodie says:
Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 20:05

Who says they don’t know about this fiasco in Engand?
——

I believe they know the facts on the table, but couldn’t care less about the background.

I was in Leeds on Wednesday, and had a good yap to a taxi driver about Leeds Utd, Aberdeen (Mr Strachan proving a handy connection) and Scottish fitba in general. He was impressed with Celtic beating Barcelona, but didn’t even mention Rangers.

If the story was as big as we’d like to think South of the border, Private Eye would be all over it by now, not just giving it a couple of occasional column inches. Perhaps they’re tracking it. I hope so, for I fear the ins and outs will require more insider info than we’ve yet been privy to.

For the record, I no longer care whether or not TRFC keep RFC’s history. They’ve shown that they’re of the same horrid ilk, and no-one’s put up a successful and credible protest against their waving the old club’s history in everyone else’s faces. Like it or not, the history’s theirs now.

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easyJamboPosted on9:40 pm - Jun 1, 2013


newtz says: Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 20:27

Really ? …………

How about it appears from the conversation that this is post his visit to Zurich and Athens ….
Green made the visit in July 2012 …. !

Post June 14th 2012 ……. !

Still of the same opinion @eJ
——————————————-
Yes – CF has already given us some emails from post 14th June showing a link with CW being maintained. The audio merely reinforces it.

The key players responses to the CF “revelations” thus far is that they can safely be ignored. All we have in official records (possibly from similar information held by CF?) is a selective extract from the PM investigations showing no connection between CW and Sevco Scotland.

It doesn’t take a huge leap of faith to believe that there is much more detail in the “confidential” parts of the PM report that won’t see the light of day, unless tested in court.

I can’t recall who said it, but it was in evidence to the Leveson inquiry that an investigative journalist said that there were three main sources of information to an investigative journalist.
1) Face to face interviews
2) Official records (e.g. Companies House or HMRC)
3) Court cases

I think the first two are close to being exhausted. If there is to be a further major scandal revealed, then it is more likely to come in court than in tweeted documents.

CF now needs to produce a “nuclear event” if anyone in authority is going to take notice. The drip drip method currently employed is subject to the laws of diminishing returns.

View Comment

newtzPosted on9:40 pm - Jun 1, 2013


ecobhoy says:

Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 21:11
——————————————-

Remember the meeting with the SFA regarding membership …. we questioned why Green was not attending and left it to Murray ….. making wild claims at the airport about having mtg with UEFA regarding seeking aid to minimise european debts and then flying on to Athens (ahem) to arrange fixture with Olympiakos ….. that was in July

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/rangers-chief-executive-charles-green-seeks-help-from-uefa-7952753.html

The audio ‘appears’ from the discussion to be post that visit ……..

It had also to be post the 5 way agreement for the same reason ….

The audio appears to discuss the aftermath of both visits ……

View Comment

Lord WobblyPosted on9:51 pm - Jun 1, 2013


parmahamster says:
Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 21:30

Smith has done precious little in terms of punditry since he left
the SFA big cheese post.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He’s been pretty regular on ESPN. I’m guessing he’ll turn up on the BT version.

View Comment

Bill1903Posted on10:28 pm - Jun 1, 2013


Gordon Smith has a column in the Sunday Post

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parmahamsterPosted on10:28 pm - Jun 1, 2013


Lord Wobbly says:

Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 21:51
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just goes to show that I should give Sky even more of my hard-earned if I want to improve my knowledge…not. 🙂

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easyJamboPosted on10:42 pm - Jun 1, 2013


Charlottes latest revelation re D&P capped fees.

I seem to recall that RTC had that scoop.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/145138909/Creditors-Stiffed

View Comment

jean7brodiePosted on10:57 pm - Jun 1, 2013


easyJambo says:
Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 22:42
Yes, I remember it well.

View Comment

Long Time LurkerPosted on11:00 pm - Jun 1, 2013


Is there any identifiable pattern to the materials being released by @CharlotteFakes?

I cannot see any progression, links between the materials – looks like a scatter gun approach.

View Comment

chipm0nkPosted on11:01 pm - Jun 1, 2013


6. I’d feel more comfortable with having only 2 administrators in place rather than 3 and I’d like to speak to David and Paul to make sure that they’re comfortable with the fact that we might end up

with HMRC being hostile (I suspect this will end up being the case so you should go into it with youreyes open)

6. Agreed.

========================

Presumably David Whitehouse and Paul Clark.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2012/5/9/1336587572372/The-Rangers-administrator-008.jpg

View Comment

bangordubPosted on11:04 pm - Jun 1, 2013


Long Time Lurker says:
Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 23:00

Looks to me like a reactive approach, CG on the radio yesterday, on tape via Charlotte today. It will make everyone think twice before saying anything.
Qui Bono?

View Comment

easyJamboPosted on11:20 pm - Jun 1, 2013


Long Time Lurker says: Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 23:00

Is there any identifiable pattern to the materials being released by @CharlotteFakes?

I cannot see any progression, links between the materials – looks like a scatter gun approach.
==========================
No pattern that I can see.

Either “she” is being very clever, in which case the intent is to lock people with the drip drip approach meaning that it isn’t allowed to fade away from people’s consciences, or alternatively she is pretty stupid and doesn’t really understand what is important and what is not.

I was initially of the former viewpoint, but over the last week or so I’m tending towards the latter view.

As I said in an earlier post, there is a law of diminishing returns from each new document, mainly because there is no obvious coherent strategy behind what is released, with people not seeing anything being added to what we already know.

If I held the range of documents that she claims to hold, then I would either go for the Whytey-Leaks approach of a dump of everything, or, if I was being clever, I would want to tell a story by following the timeline and release documents accordingly, i.e. 1) pre the purchase of the club, 2) the Whyte period in charge of RFC, 3) the lead up to administration, 4) the pre CVA/Asset Sale period and 5) the post Asset sale period.

View Comment

Nuclear SheepPosted on11:34 pm - Jun 1, 2013


When Rangers died, did the SFA die with them?

The silence is absolutely shocking. An association, which is supposed to worry about the whole of Scottish Football, seems in shock.

The adopted baby is sick and, barring some miracle millionaire cure, will follow its brother to the grave.

They need to focus on the living. Best they do it now or we will never be able to forgive them.

View Comment

Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on11:34 pm - Jun 1, 2013


Charlotte,

No pattern, a complete scattershot approach. It’s probably designed to box people in but it’s not working and as easyJambo says each leak has less impact.

What happened to the Five way agreement?

Is there actually anything in her stash that will do anything more than make a few people squirm?

I’m beginning to doubt it!

View Comment

TSFMPosted on1:03 am - Jun 2, 2013


I’ve removed several posts tonight concerning Gordon Smith.

The posts which have been removed are in general of the gloating and schadenfreude variety although I apologise that some posts have been removed because although they displayed compassion for Smith, they also highlighted some of the ill-spirited stuff.

I am happy to see that most of the contributions were compassionate, but still a little sad that some took comfort in the misfortune of others.

The purpose of this blog is to discuss the shortcomings of individuals and institutions as they pertain to Scottish football, not the personal misfortune, failings, and shortcomings of people like Smith.

View Comment

Palacio67Posted on1:19 am - Jun 2, 2013


angus1983 says:
Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 13:26
24 22 Rate This
bill1903 says:
Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 12:02

The fact is that Aberdeen were one of the best teams in Europe at that time and of that there is no doubt(Super cup winners remember )
——

The fact is that Aberdeen were THE best team in Europe that year, by definition. We beat Bayern and Real in our own competition, and let Hamburg knock out all the chaff in the European Cup before giving them a fairly straighforward doing too. Ergo = The Best.

You canna compare teams of different eras – endless pub debates shall ensue if you do – but I am entirely convinced that Aberdeen’s achievements were at least equal to the acme of anything any Glasgow team has ever done.
=======================================
Were Aberdeen actually Champions of their own league that year, or was it just a lucky run in the cup that oldgers had in 1972 🙂

View Comment

TSFMPosted on1:33 am - Jun 2, 2013


Since the emergence of CtH on t’interweb, there has been heightened activity here and elsewhere and a mixture of fear and anticipation has accompanied almost every drum-roll. None of these percussive events has been punctuated by the exclamation-mark of a big crash bang. At best there’s been a question-mark splat, but most often an ellipsis of silence. The snare and toms are pounding well, but the cymbals lack zing.

My own scepticism over Charlotte was due in the main to that “if you knew what I know” music hall production tactic. Promises of dynamite were made, but no satisfactory answers to specific questions. A bit like an Evening Times street vendor poster.

There may be a hundred valid reasons for this approach, but our collective opinion was that if there is indeed some dynamite material out there that would expose the corruption we all believe exists, then it should be released. If CtH is in possession of truths that are not already in the public domain, what on earth is holding her back?

It has been hinted that Alex Thomson’s story was Charlotte’s, but if ITN had been reluctant, CtH has had a much more forgiving medium available to her in Twitter. Yet no astonishing revelations thus far.

The conversation is turning worryingly to a Charlotte personality cult and more and more away from the real story of corruption at the highest levels in football.

I will still be happy to be proved wrong if Charlotte is the harbinger of Truth she claims to be, but as of now, she reminds me a bit of a Charles Rennie Mackintosh chair; a potent conversation piece, but structurally unsound, failing to deliver on what it says in the design brief …

View Comment

manandboyPosted on1:48 am - Jun 2, 2013


TSFM says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 01:33

I will be happy to be proved wrong of Charlotte is the harbinger of Truth she claims to be, but as of now, she reminds me a bit of a Charles Rennie Mackintosh chair; a potent conversation piece, but structurally unsound, failing to deliver on what it says on the design brief..

____________________________________________________________________________

Agreed.

And yet, is it really to be, that all this material is to no effect or purpose or any consequence at all ?
I wonder, hopefully.

View Comment

john clarkePosted on1:58 am - Jun 2, 2013


TSFM says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 01:03
‘..The purpose of this blog is to discuss the shortcomings of individuals and institutions as they pertain to Scottish football, not the personal misfortune, failings, and shortcomings of people like Smith.’
—-
I agree.

And I begin to sound like a broken record ( and there’s an expression that many of our younger readers probably have never heard!) when I say that Gordon Smith’s private misfortunes (such as they may be,given that he surely had the savvy to put his assets into his wife’s name etc etc) are not at all relevant to the real business of this blog.

What is relevant, however, is the question as to whether he is in any way complicit in the dirty deeds of the SFA in allowing an out of control chairman of a club to get away with murdering his own club , and then, afterwards, even after being punted out of office as useless, aiding and abetting in the cover-up of that murder by his readiness to propagandise that his club had not died, that his Rangers lived on etc etc.

And my answer to that question is in the affirmative.

View Comment

Kenny DuthiePosted on3:04 am - Jun 2, 2013


Yesterday on radio Scotland,I think it was “What the papers say”,(don’t laugh) but spiers was on & two things made me….WTF….First,when discussing Neil Lennon as Celtic manager,he says,” If I was Celtic manager & thank God I’m not”…………..Now look at that statement!! No-one asked why he wouldn’t like to be manager of Celtic or why he had to thank God for the privilege of not being Celtic manager & he didn’t qualify it either (I would’ve preferred if he’d said,”I couldn’t be Celtic manager because I’m a rangers man) The other statement was about rangers(IL) ,they were discussing events down ibrokes way & he says, “When rangers WERE………..(*pause,stumble.to find the right words) HAD their troubles”,I was shouting at the radio “LIQUIDATION,JUST FECHIN’ SAY IT” but no,he couldn’t do it.Despite his ramblings of being an honest journalist (pffft).Now if I brought that up on a “phone in” I’d be shouted down but it’s there for all to hear……Will the “Best little country in the world” ever be “The most unbiased country in the world”…….I think not !!

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OldcobrokemyheartbycheatingPosted on3:05 am - Jun 2, 2013


well said Mr Monitor the harlot bares nothing but a big axe wound, or hairy leg or something.

View Comment

briggsbhoyPosted on3:27 am - Jun 2, 2013


CtheH has as yet not sent any hare running for cover

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StevieBCPosted on4:03 am - Jun 2, 2013


TSFM says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 01:33

“an ellipsis of silence” [… 😉 ]

=============================

Sounds like TSFM has a contender for the title of the next Bond film.

Anyway, nicely worded first para on the apparent teasing from a certain harlot…

View Comment

twopandaPosted on5:56 am - Jun 2, 2013


On Charlotte stuff

Either we`re being treated as Pavlovian dogs in some nefarious plan – or there a rationale to this.

Doesn’t hurt to patiently consider possibilities.

On the faint tape – there is a chummy even relaxed certainly confident mood between individuals who as pointed out earlier CG has claimed only met CW a couple of times. Questions would be why a tape recording at all. Was this taping routine as aide memoire – or lack of trust? Previous tapes suggest a lack of trust. But its impossible to derive more than nudge nudge wink wink from such a truncated snippet – except for possibly disdain certainly disregard for the SFA / SPL. It’s also possible this release reactive to current news – but the reaction of posters to Charlotte on this understandable on balance.

On the email – yep a redacted version was on the BBC I think. Is it possible something was missed. Points 3-6 [from 11 Feb- 06.32PM?] were all `agreed` (subject to `all emerging issues) Doesn’t hurt to review.

If the emails are genuine – and we`ve no proof that`s so – what fits? – We could deduce there was a plan at least partly prepared to deliver to an overall strategy coupled to beliefs / assumptions current at that time that must have shared or briefed. That could fit with a `duping` set-up – but that is highly speculative. But the message is CW expected or believed [or wished to portray he believed] he would pick up the bill for this – admin should be short – and he wanted accounts ready for UEFA / SFA – and would remain as `owner / sec creditor` for either the oldco in CVA or the pre-pack business and assets – or possibly both

Certainly the landscape changed post feb 14 – and D+D changed that landscape – and they must have had reasons. Very quickly CW lost ownership / control and agenda immediately focussed on finding a preferred bidder for the whole kit and caboddle, SFA accounts fell out – together with all the CB money stuff with GW etc. that has never been explained. It is difficult to align that CW foresaw events as transpired post Feb 14 if this email genuine – but we don`t know until he speaks.

Irrespective of the email – the accounts for the SFA/UEFA did fall out. Not maintaining accounts for a `going concern` [to attract best sale price PBs] is curious. There must have been something amiss but probably going back to the previous accounts not signed off that in reality scuppered a proper SFA accredited participation in 11/12 – to whit the SFA has not quite explained. Why did CW believe accounts could be readied some 6 weeks after this `email` presumably to satisfy UEFA / SFA?

I would like to think that if there is a common theme in these latest Charlotte releases – it is the SFA.

But all that mere conjecture – even straining on conjecture.
On balance more specifics needed to be generally credible – if that possible

TSFM spot on with – `The conversation is turning worryingly to a Charlotte personality cult and more and more away from the real story of corruption at the highest levels in football`

But she`s up again – so benefit of the doubt

Embezzling charity monies from club events, that’s one hell of an accusation to make against the former CEO. http://i.imgur.com/DO4CmLR.jpg

View Comment

callumssonPosted on5:59 am - Jun 2, 2013


CtH’s latest…deary, deary me! Maybe CorsicaCharity can shed some light on these astonishing allegations.

Tweets
Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 20m
Embezzling charity monies from club events, that’s one hell of an accusation to make against the former CEO. http://i.imgur.com/DO4CmLR.jpg
Collapse Reply Retweet Favorite More
9:35 – 1 Jun 13 · Details

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Danish PastryPosted on6:58 am - Jun 2, 2013


callumsson says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 05:59

1 0 Rate This
CtH’s latest…deary, deary me! Maybe CorsicaCharity can shed some light on these astonishing allegations.

Tweets
Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 20m
Embezzling charity monies from club events, that’s one hell of an accusation to make against the former CEO. http://i.imgur.com/DO4CmLR.jpg
——–

If it’s the same Graf Mortgage Corporation mentioned in the CF snippet, can it be true that they have a managing director called Steven Chares Green who employs a Mr Gary Withey as his lawyer?

http://www.business7.co.uk/business-news/scottish-business-news/2012/10/17/vion-uk-rubbish-claims-made-by-bidder-steve-green-106408-23933677/

View Comment

Carfins Finest. (@edunne58)Posted on7:22 am - Jun 2, 2013


So. As I understand it TRFC cannot go into administration as they would cannot in fact owe money to anyone other than RIFC. So if RIFC (Green, Ahmed and Stockbridge) decided to stop financing the loss making offspring then it’s Sell the assets.What a precarious position to be in eh?..

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chipm0nkPosted on7:36 am - Jun 2, 2013


Are people seriously suggesting that CF has brought little or nothing out into the open.

All of those documents, the audio of Whyte and Green discussing matters, conspiring together, the agreements between Whyte and D&P.

All of this was previously documented and in the public domain. So nothing new has been produced.

I think people are looking for the wrong thing here. Someone to spoon feed them, lay things out in a Janet and John story, and support it by cross referenced documentary evidence.

Well that isn’t how it’s going to work. This is someone who is working to an agenda, and releasing things to suit themselves. It is not some seeker after truth and justice, with a nicely explained resolution at the end of the movie. That’s not how this sort of thing really works.

So if people are waiting for a well laid out explanation of everything, naming names in alphabetical order, with all of the different strands of evidence laid out and cross-referred then they are unlikely to get it until / unless a book is released.

I think CF has been great in bringing new material to be considered, and I still treat everything with healthy scepticism.

View Comment

chipm0nkPosted on7:43 am - Jun 2, 2013


Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 07:22

I think they could probably go into voluntary administration, but what would be the point.

Administration is handing the running of your business over to someone else, to try to keep you trading. If you only owe money to your own holding company then you what would that achieve.

Administration must have a reason. It is generally to protect the company from creditors, and allow it to make an arrangement to continue trading. I just don’t see how it would be relevant with the current Rangers structure.

To me the holding company selling the limited company as a going concern in order to recoup what it has spent from the IPO money makes more sense.

View Comment

italiabhoyPosted on7:59 am - Jun 2, 2013


The CharlotteFakes material is very, very interesting. Everyone should approach this kind of material with scepticism, of course, and the question of its provenance and if there is an agenda behind its appearance is a valid one.

However, to compare Charlotte to a rubbish chair – just because she does not answer every question you have in a full and comprehensive manner – is a bit ridiculous.

(You think Deep Throat just laid it out for Woodward and Bernstein?)

View Comment

neepheidPosted on8:10 am - Jun 2, 2013


Carfins Finest. (@edunne58) says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 07:22
0 0 Rate This
So. As I understand it TRFC cannot go into administration as they would cannot in fact owe money to anyone other than RIFC.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I’ve seen this said on here a few times over the last 2 days, but I don’t think that it’s correct. As a trading company, TRFC will enter into contracts for goods and services with many other businesses and individuals every month. As an example, TRFC employs the players. Under the players’ contracts, they are entitled to be paid every month. Similarly HMRC are entitled to be paid the tax and nic on those wages.

The fact that the money to pay these items is ultimately coming from the IPO money held by RIFC, presumably by way of an inter company loan, changes nothing. If wages and/or PAYE tax and nic are not paid on time, then the player or HMRC owed the money can ultimately apply for to the court for a winding up order against TRFC.

Note that RIFC are in no danger of insolvency, since they hold the cash, while TRFC run up the bills. Once the cash runs out, they just let TRFC go to the wall, or more likely pass it over to some dignified Knights. I’m sure that measures are already in place to ensure that if TRFC goes bust, then the properties remain with RIFC.

Of course TRFC by now must owe many millions to RIFC. As soon as the money from RIFC dries up, then TRFC have to stop trading, since they are almost certainly insolvent and relying on assurances of cash availability from RIFC to allow trading to continue. Once that cash stops coming, administration or even rapid liquidation is inevitable, since the wages and other bills can’t be paid.

What I fail to understand is why no efforts are being made to drastically cut the outgoings of TRFC. It is almost as if they wanted it to go bust. Maybe they do, then they can get rid of it? Then they would be left with a nice property company to run, worth about £40m, and no £15m a year football loss to have to worry about. That’s what I’d be doing- but then I’d have done it as soon as the IPO money was in the bank. An awful lot of that IPO cash has been squandered since January.

View Comment

torrejohnbhoyPosted on8:11 am - Jun 2, 2013


chipm0nk says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 07:43.
==============================================
I assume you’re talking about selling everything,including Ibrox,Murray Park etc.
Is this the gun the spivs can hold to the “Rangers Mens” heads?.
The club is loss making and will continue to be so.I can’t see a way they can become profitable for years to come unless they cut costs massively.the only way to do that is to decimate the playing squad and that defeats the purpose.
The properties are the key.
The spivs can tell the rest,buy the lot or we’ll dump the club and sell Ibrox etc for say £30m(I only quote that fig as Corsicacharity revealed that Malcolm Murray was trying desperately to raise it),or someone can buy the club and rent Ibrox.
The problem is,however,if anyone buys the club/company,they’ll not only have to pay millions for the lot,they’ll have to throw cash at the club to keep it going,maybe to the tune of £15-20m per year.
Over the next 2 years that’s a potential outlay of circa £60-70m with no guarantees.
Is there really anyone out there who wants to burn that sort of cash?.
Renting Ibrox,MP etc would just see any new owners paying maybe a couple of million a year,not including repairs & maintenance.Hard for a cash strapped club.
The new club owners could of course tell RIFC to stuff Ibrox and agree to ground share with someone,cut costs and start anew,building from the bottom up.would the fans buy into this,though?.

View Comment

scottcPosted on8:20 am - Jun 2, 2013


chipm0nk says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 07:43

To me the holding company selling the limited company as a going concern in order to recoup what it has spent from the IPO money makes more sense.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That’s got to be the eventual plan whilst, of course, retaining the properties to ensure future cash flow for RIFC. Then running TRFC becomes someone else’s problem and if they stop paying the rent, then Tesco step in.

Of course, if CW and Worthington’s were to win out in court, then the game is a bogie.

View Comment

chipm0nkPosted on8:22 am - Jun 2, 2013


neepheid says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 08:10

I’ve seen this said on here a few times over the last 2 days, but I don’t think that it’s correct. As a trading company, TRFC will enter into contracts for goods and services with many other businesses and individuals every month. As an example, TRFC employs the players. Under the players’ contracts, they are entitled to be paid every month. Similarly HMRC are entitled to be paid the tax and nic on those wages.

The fact that the money to pay these items is ultimately coming from the IPO money held by RIFC, presumably by way of an inter company loan, changes nothing. If wages and/or PAYE tax and nic are not paid on time, then the player or HMRC owed the money can ultimately apply for to the court for a winding up order against TRFC.

====================================

So who do you think has been providing them credit.

Not the players, if their wages are being paid. Not HMRC if their taxes are being paid. Maybe some local suppliers, but I don’t imagine anything significant.

Who they are paying isn’t really the point, who they are being provided credit by, and potentially not paying is. That is what could lead to a winding up order / administration. Debts being satisfied cannot.

If the structure is the way we think it is, then RFC are likely to be in debt to RIFC. That money will probably be repaid when the season money comes in. However they will then have to borrow again to pay wages etc.

I’m sorry but I still don’t see what an administration would achieve. See my previous, they could do it, but to what end. If their main creditor is their own holding company what would be the plan, to write off debt to themselves.

I am not saying that they could not place themselves into administration, I just don’t see what it would achieve, other than losing points in the league.

View Comment

upthehoopsPosted on8:41 am - Jun 2, 2013


Richard Wilson, who seems to be in the know at Ibrox, claims in todays Sunday Herald only £7-8M of IPO money left. Surprisingly he also mentions lessons not learnt about big contracts being handed out.

I suppose it doesn’t matter mind you. They could owe a billion and never pay tax ever again, and the SFA would still keep a place at the table for them.

View Comment

neepheidPosted on8:47 am - Jun 2, 2013


chipm0nk says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 08:22

So who do you think has been providing them credit.

Not the players, if their wages are being paid. Not HMRC if their taxes are being paid. Maybe some local suppliers, but I don’t imagine anything significant.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

But I’m not saying that they are running on external credit. What I’m saying is that if they fail to pay wages or tax on time, then they can potentially be put into administration by whoever they haven’t paid. As soon as you fail to pay a bill, then you become a debtor. If you continue to fail to pay, the creditor can put you into administration, just as much as if you had borrowed money from them. It’s a debt, exactly the same.

The advantage of administration generally is that it’s much easier for an administrator to cut costs by shedding staff. A good administrator could easily cut costs so as to match expenses to income. But I don’t think that’s likely. RIFC will almost certainly shift TRFC on to new owners before that happens. Then they can do the cost-cutting, but it will be much more difficult for them, with so many people on stellar contracts for years to come.

View Comment

chipm0nkPosted on8:52 am - Jun 2, 2013


upthehoops says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 08:41

Does he say if any of it has been spent on the essential upkeep of the stadium.

Rumour has it millions was required.

Or has it mostly been spent on running costs, to simply make ends meet. To finance the difference between income and expenditure.

One wonders where the bulk of the season ticket income will be going when it comes in. Only to be lent back to the club again. At what rate, and with what charges.

View Comment

chipm0nkPosted on9:05 am - Jun 2, 2013


neepheid says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 08:47

========================

I did say, I think it was last night, that the administrator could of course cut costs.

And that is the crux of the matter, the only point in an administration would be to cut costs dramatically. Which is exactly what they should have been doing anyway.

However by going into administration they hand over all control to the administrator. I don’t think they would have a Duff and Phelps type administration if it was to happen again. it would be more of a Jackson type one. i.e. actually trying to sort things properly.

My objection is to people saying that they will simply “do admin” again. As if it is some sort of repercussion free panacea. Shedding debt and carrying on, it should be anything but, a sustainable business should come out of the other end. Not just a business, the same actual company now with a sustainable business model.

Personally I agree that a sale of the club, is the more likely end result. Probably the one planned for anyway.

View Comment

torrejohnbhoyPosted on9:06 am - Jun 2, 2013


Hard to believe that the institutional investors(the genuine ones,if any) are happy with the situation.
What about Cenkos.Where do they stand wrt the AIM market?.
The 6 month lock in ends in under 3 weeks.I don’t know how it works but I’d be trying to get out right now.Quite soon millions of shares may or may not be dumped.If that happens the price is only going one way.
It would make sense for the spivs to get out before then.
But then again,when did any of this make sense.

View Comment

Long Time LurkerPosted on9:07 am - Jun 2, 2013


easyJambo says:
Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 23:20
6 1 Rate This
Long Time Lurker says: Saturday, June 1, 2013 at 23:00

Is there any identifiable pattern to the materials being released by @CharlotteFakes?

I cannot see any progression, links between the materials – looks like a scatter gun approach.
==========================
No pattern that I can see.

Either “she” is being very clever, in which case the intent is to lock people with the drip drip approach meaning that it isn’t allowed to fade away from people’s consciences, or alternatively she is pretty stupid and doesn’t really understand what is important and what is not.

I was initially of the former viewpoint, but over the last week or so I’m tending towards the latter view.

As I said in an earlier post, there is a law of diminishing returns from each new document, mainly because there is no obvious coherent strategy behind what is released, with people not seeing anything being added to what we already know.

If I held the range of documents that she claims to hold, then I would either go for the Whytey-Leaks approach of a dump of everything, or, if I was being clever, I would want to tell a story by following the timeline and release documents accordingly, i.e. 1) pre the purchase of the club, 2) the Whyte period in charge of RFC, 3) the lead up to administration, 4) the pre CVA/Asset Sale period and 5) the post Asset sale period.
==========================
TSFM says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 01:33
==========================
easyJambo – I think you have hit the nail on the head, with your point on the law of diminishing returns. I myself was hoping for a series of leaks where the material built further understanding of events based on a progressive development of the story.

TSFM – I agree with your caution – the materials appear genuine, however where is @CharlotteFakes going with these?

That fact that the publication of the materials to date is not following any pattern suggests to me that either @CharlotteFakes perhaps does not have the final say as to what is released and when.

Then again – I get the sense that there is a high frustration factor at the moment with many now beginning to question will the spivs and cheats get off with this. I must admit on some days I wish the killer knock out blow will come; that the club and elements of the SFA will not get up after the count of ten. It is my hope that this would provide a chance for a clean fresh break – where football can begin to grow and develop.

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tic6709Posted on9:11 am - Jun 2, 2013


Necessary repairs to Ibrox will take care of half the remaining IPO money,if it’s truly £7-8 million,I have my doubts. They sacked the stadium manager who probably told them the Real cost of the repairs.As they are willing to let the place fall down before any outlay it would seem that they have no intention of spending any more money on anything,they also have to have a new Physio before the season starts,although they got away with not having one for the last few games 2013 contrary to the rules.Rules,what am I thinking? Anyway,nobody at ibrox has told the truth about anything lately (1986-2013 ) why would they suddenly tell a reporter the truth about what’s left in the biscuit tin,and if as I suspect it’s an exaggeration they are really in trouble.
Allowing Sally to sign all the new faces is only to pump up the assets for when they exit stage left.

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Mark (@awolz1)Posted on9:19 am - Jun 2, 2013


That’s what I’d be doing- but then I’d have done it as soon as the IPO money was in the bank. An awful lot of that IPO cash has been squandered since January.

======================================
Squandered or “re-allocated” in the web of financial and accountancy/lawyer accounts for dispersal amongst the principals? I would suggest until the 22 million is used up in it’s entirety the show will go on….but I think your synopsis is accurate

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Mark (@awolz1)Posted on9:26 am - Jun 2, 2013


To me the holding company selling the limited company as a going concern in order to recoup what it has spent from the IPO money makes more sense.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hmmmm, as I suggested above about sucking every penny, I neglected to ask, the shares in the IPO were in RIFC or TRFC? makes a difference…..on income for the spivs

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Lord WobblyPosted on9:41 am - Jun 2, 2013


Rangers new signings warned by players’ union not to play as trialists in case they pick up an injury

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-new-signings-warned-players-1927028

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Danish PastryPosted on9:43 am - Jun 2, 2013


The latest audio certainly confirms the very chummy understanding between Green & Whyte …

Summary:

* ‘Angelos Tavlos’ the Greek is well in with UEFA nr 2 (Gianni Infantino?)

* Platini is fookin stupid

* by approaching UEFA, via Angelos, sanctions (SFA, SPL?) on Rangers could be lifted in a week on condition that you ‘buy someone a drink …’

* ‘Charles, come to Athens or go to Switzerland’ and within a week UEFA will send a nice letter saying club cannot be prosecuted for crimes of someone else and/or previous owners

* possible situation where FIFA & fookin UEFA say sanctions are improper and SFA say ‘no, we’re not listening to you’ … ‘Fookin no chance’

* Fookin, fookin

* Charles view in life is, fookin, have pressure from the top, not from fookin …

Not sure, if time-wise, this is after any Greek or Swiss trip. Sounds as though it’s before

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SmugasPosted on9:48 am - Jun 2, 2013


Basically there’s two ‘public’ cards left to play to keep the wheels turning. Buy ST’s (or even more shares) now so we can once and for all take back our club. I’m guessing 38k ST’s will sell on Walters say so so that’s this year sorted. As above Administration2 will be an entirely cosmetic exercise with a clear purpose. The second card is the absolute guns to head tesco option which I can’t see CG/IA playing publicly albeit within the confines of the blue room its a different story. I’d be very surprised to see the second card at Ibrox (no change there then) since the blue brigade have a rather effective card they can play themselves when backed into a corner, allegedly etc etc.

What CW is doing is effectively muddying the waters of the first option since CG/IA quickly realised they would have no problem selling the club back to the fans (although I’m sure not even they would have dared guess they wouldn’t have to return it to profitability first). But will the bears double dip to fund CW’s monaco dream continuing? Guessing not. Also what impact will footballing fortunes play in this? I have wee suspicion that CG/IA wouldn’t share the bears disappointment if the team started to struggle in div 2. Strikes me it would actually make it more saleable, not less!

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chipm0nkPosted on9:56 am - Jun 2, 2013


Mark (@awolz1) says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 09:26

The IPO was RIFC PLC.

RFC Ltd is a private limited company, owned by the holding company.

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SmugasPosted on9:56 am - Jun 2, 2013


The June release date for the shares has been bothering me too.

On a completely unrelated note wouldn’t that be a great time for an SPL2 invite to even be rumoured?

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chipm0nkPosted on9:58 am - Jun 2, 2013


Mark (@awolz1) says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 09:24

They got over the notion of renaming.

They would get over the idea of renting. There is plenty of precedent for it and it would still be Ibrox.

They have been tested and it has been shown, as long as things are done in manageable chunks they will accept anything.

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ptd1978Posted on10:08 am - Jun 2, 2013


Does anyone know what CtH’s modus operandi is?
Almost certainly she isn’t doing this to make sure justice is served on all concerned. She has a motive (possibly in line with CW, maybe someone else), so she isn’t going to drop anything that will harm those interests.
Do I trust her? No. But the last month has been fun and we know a lot more than we did. No point throwing the toys out the pram just because she can’t/won’t produce a smoking gun.

For what it’s worth. A lot of what she has produced are smoking guns…. Just not when applied to Sevco.

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briggsbhoyPosted on10:11 am - Jun 2, 2013


Anybody know Mr Platini’s email address ? I would think he would like to know what CG opinion of him is.

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ptd1978Posted on10:13 am - Jun 2, 2013


I see complicit action from the authorities is not just a Scottish problem. The premier league are pushing season tickets for Chelsea with their “fake” Jose returns report.

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twopandaPosted on10:15 am - Jun 2, 2013


@Danish
A transcript – well done

`Fit & Proper Persons` they are – some as approved under `due diligence` by the SFA
& D+P
& AIM / IPO
& etc
Apols to Charlotte
Blimey!
😉

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ecobhoyPosted on10:33 am - Jun 2, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 09:06

Hard to believe that the institutional investors(the genuine ones,if any) are happy with the situation. What about Cenkos.Where do they stand wrt the AIM market?.
The 6 month lock in ends in under 3 weeks.I don’t know how it works but I’d be trying to get out right now.Quite soon millions of shares may or may not be dumped.If that happens the price is only going one way. It would make sense for the spivs to get out before then. But then again,when did any of this make sense.
================================================================

Re Cenkos and other NOMADS they are part of the great weakness in the AIM Regulatory process IMO. They are there to ‘police’ the AIM regulations and report breaches to AIM but they also work for and are paid by the client Plc company. To me that could create a conflict of interest which shouldn’t be allowed legally and as far as I can see it produces a regulation ‘lite’ system ostensibly to keep costs down but which many perceive to be toothless when dealing with spiv operators who ignore or circumvent NOMAD advice.

Of course many of the spivs don’t do anything illegal or contrary to the AIM rules but they know just how far they can stretch those rules and it becomse a moot point whether they remain within the spirit of the rules or not.

As to the price of previously locked-in shares I doubt if we’ll see then ‘dumped’ on the AIM Market – they will be sold in private deals to those seeking a stake in the club. Of course we can’t be sure whether these people exist or, if they do, their identity or tax location.

What always has to be remembered is that the spivs will know what the plan is and it will make absolute financial sense to them although the rest of us will only be able to piece the plan together later when we are left looking at the pieces.

I have a feeling that perhaps the timetable has been hurried or perhaps a series of small ‘things’ has blown the spivs a bit off the planned course. But they will have an alternative route and I think at some stage a sale and lease-back of Ibrox Stadium from the Holding to the Operating Company is on the cards. Obviously more dosh is needed beyond ST money and that can only come from a real or fake ‘Sheikh’ or a fresh AIM foray. Both are unlikely so unless a lower-grade of spiv enters the arena it’s down to True Blue Rangers Men to step forward but agreeing the ‘right price’ could be a real stumbling block between the spivs and brown brogues.

Another thing I’m not sure about is how many shares will come on the market in a few weeks – always remember that the £17 million of Institutional Investor shares will still be subject to the usual ‘orderly market’ trading strictures.

But what about the original consortium investor shares in TRFCL – including all the 1p shares – which were swapped for RIFC Plc shares at flotation apparently on a 1-for-1 basis. I have always wondered what shares were left in TRFC and who holds then but no notification has been lodged with Companies House on this subject since the flotation on 19/12/2012 although I believe that the changes should have been notified to Companies House within 30 days.

However the company record on this can be judged by the fact that the original subscriber shareholding, held by Charles Green, which was subdivided on 29/05/2012 wasn’t actually reported to Companies House until 4/12/2012. The Annual Return for TRFCL is due on 26/06/2013 although accounts aren’t due until 28/02/2014. With Imram Ahmad’s ceasing to be a director of TRFCL on 30/04/2013 the only two directors of TRFCL are Green and Stockbridge.

But another issue which is seldom touched on is what if any restrictions apply to the money invested or loaned by the original consortium members. Is it really just simply that they were all given the 1-for-1 swap of TRFCL shares for RIFC Plc ones. I have never believed it was ever as simple as that and I think it could be a key issue but equally could mean nothing.

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twopandaPosted on10:44 am - Jun 2, 2013


@ecobhoy
Thought CG was on TRFC too – but CH has only Stockbridge left as listed – CG still listed on RIFC tho?

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ecobhoyPosted on10:47 am - Jun 2, 2013


briggsbhoy says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 10:11

Anybody know Mr Platini’s email address ? I would think he would like to know what CG opinion of him is.
———————————————————————————————————–

Emails to every member of the Executive Committee would at least get through and alternative means of contacting them can be found from their profiles on Uefa’s website. A bit of work involved but much more likely to create a discussion even internally and it may end-up in an official rejection of Green’s comments.

Uefa is also on facebook and twitter and utube – so there are lots of way of getting Green’s remarks out there. Just contacting Platini via Uefa will never get to him IMO – their PR department will smother it. Might also be worth letting the ECA know what their great friend Green is up to.

Personally I think, like so much else, that Green was spouting hot air based on the fantasy that he rubs shoulders as an equal with the movers and shakers. He’s just a salesman but a good one. Listening to him on the tape I would think he was well-oiled (no not snake oil) but then I know he’s a strict tee-totaller because he’s told us so on a number of occasions.

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ecobhoyPosted on10:54 am - Jun 2, 2013


twopanda says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 10:44

@ecobhoy
Thought CG was on TRFC too – but CH has only Stockbridge left as listed – CG still listed on RIFC tho?
==========================================================

He was the founding subscriber shareholder and sole director at Incorporation and the details are on the Incorporation documents of Sevco Scotland. They were never shown on Webcheck at CH.

He was later joined by Stockbridge, Ahmad and Murray but Murray and Ahmad have since resigned leaving Stockbridge and Green. I realise his name doesn’t show but he’s still a director because no termination notice has been posted at CH.

Whether him remaining there is significant or not is debatable but if for instance his resignation is posted in the next few days for all the RIFC Plc subsidiary companies he is listed as a director of – but excluding TRFCL – then that I contend would be significant.

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chipm0nkPosted on10:55 am - Jun 2, 2013


ecobhoy says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 10:47

On the last interview I saw, on STV, he didn’t look much a like a tee totaller to me.

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twopandaPosted on10:59 am - Jun 2, 2013


@ecobhoy
Thanks ecobhoy! – had always assumed CG was [&still] there – & good advice on webcheck listings!

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AlthetimPosted on11:00 am - Jun 2, 2013


upthehoops says:

Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 08:41

Richard Wilson, who seems to be in the know at Ibrox, claims in todays Sunday Herald only £7-8M of IPO money left.
————————————————————————————

In the same (Herald) article, Richard Wilson opens with:

“It is 12 months since the consortium headed by Charles Green completed the purchase of the business and assets of Rangers Football Club plc.”

The business was not for sale at that point. It ceased to be for sale when the CVA was rejected. It ceased to be altogether. I wish Richard Wilson and others in the MSM would take the trouble to learn the difference between Administration and Liquidation. Such knowledge may prevent them printing nonsense like Wilsons opening gambit today.

Wilson says later, referring to Charles Green : “He won the support over by recognising the issues that most irked them, namely the bid to take away the titles….blah blah…”.

Actually he won them over by appealing to the lowest denominator amongst the Rangers support by brilliantly playing the WATP card. We all remember that ridiculous photo of CG wearing an orange Rangers top in Belfast. He blamed Sevco’s woes on b!gotry. That’s what endeared him to the Rangers support.

The Herald once had a decent sports section. I’m old enough to remember that.

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jimlarkinPosted on11:05 am - Jun 2, 2013


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-new-signings-warned-players-1927028?

fraser wishart telling them not to play as trialists for the sevco franchise
[copyrite-falkirk stadium announcer] !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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TSFMPosted on11:08 am - Jun 2, 2013


The poll about the format of the site has now closed and the results as follows;

No 132 (55%)
Yes 61 (25%)
Both 47 (20%)

There is a clear majority in favour of the status quo, and I suspect that the extremely low participation (a fifth of the votes collected the last time we did a survey) is also an indication that people are generally wedded to the current format.

We will therefore keep the same format for the blog, but will move to a hosted package over the summer with the added functionality of WordPress.org.

It is unfortunate that we purchased Vbulletin software several months ago in anticipation that a forum format would be the way forward, but at least we have that in place if we decide to change in future.

An update on plans for the blog and fund-raising will be posted later on the Funding page.

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Lord WobblyPosted on11:12 am - Jun 2, 2013


Just reading back and thought I’d give my tuppence on the Aberdeen CWC ranking debate.
In simple ranking terms, the European Cup is No1. Granted back in the day, the relative ranking of the EC, UEFA Cup and European Cup Winners Cup was closer than the Champions League and Europa League is now, but the EC has always been top dog. Then the UEFA Cup. Then the ECWC until it ended.

On a sense of achievement scale, we have the fact of Celtic being the first EC winners from these shores and with a team of local lads.
We also have an unfashionable small Aberdeen who not only upset the apple cart in their own country, but also take on the Bayerns and the Real Madrids to win the ECWC and then go on to lift the Super Cup as well. The Super Cup is and always has been something of an exhibition match but is still worthy of note.
We also have Rangers who achieved the ECWC during the intervening years. A footballing achievement of which they were rightly proud.
So, in summary, in cold hard ranking order: Celtic then Aberdeen then Rangers.
In ‘sense of achievement’ order, I think it’s difficult to separate Celtic and Aberdeen, with Rangers taking up the rear.
Overall: Celtic by a head, then Aberdeen with Rangers a length behind in 3rd.

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FIFAPosted on11:14 am - Jun 2, 2013


Some very interesting comments this morning and will make for a lot of possible outcomes to be mulled over in the next few days,one that keeps going round in my head is that the spivs original plan was to make an agreed amount from the bears and cut and run with a repairable damage limitation for the bears to fix while licking their wounds and all will be happy,but,a spiv is a spiv and when they invited some more spivs into the mix thats when the greed kicks in,Whyte wanted the lions share out of all this and Green was the rabid dog to clean the carcass ,unfortunately when the lion went for a sleep the rabid dog ate more than he should have and has now bolted to what will be one of many bolt hole.s ,France being the first ,his plan is still on course ,eating into the IP money is part of this to buy the time required to cover his tracks and once the season book money is in,topped up the accounts and its invisible man time.
Nice one Charles

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goosyPosted on11:20 am - Jun 2, 2013


Nope

Unless there is some secret agreement between the SPL and SFL1 clubs

There is no financial advantage gained by 10 SFL clubs breaking away to form an SPL2

For starters

Breaking away from the SFL eliminates promotion and relegation for SFL2

Thus cutting SPL2 off from two games against TRFC in 2014/2015
And
Leaving TRFC to roam the lower reaches forever
……No chance of this happening
So it seems patently obvious
If reconstruction is dead
The gang of 10 are certain to invite TRFC and ANO to join a breakaway league in 2013/2014
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If they do so
This scenario could develop rapidly
ST sales rocket on the prospect of SPL2 next season
TRFC clear its RIFC debts leaving itself penniless
Spivs sell their shares back to RIFC at a price that eliminates the cash pile
TRFC are put up for sale as a cashless club
All before the start of next season

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ecobhoyPosted on11:24 am - Jun 2, 2013


chipm0nk says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 09:58

Mark (@awolz1) says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 09:24

They got over the notion of renaming.

They would get over the idea of renting. There is plenty of precedent for it and it would still be Ibrox.

They have been tested and it has been shown, as long as things are done in manageable chunks they will accept anything.
===========================================================

I try to base my judgement on what Rangers fans are thinking by talking and listening to drinking mates and relatives who support Rangers. These aren’t spotty keyboard warriors active on Bear fan sites but pretty mature guys – OK not that pretty 🙂

Seriously lots are hurting and a few have walked away at least for the time being but mainly through the dire football than anything else. But a lot of these guys are professional people and run businesses. They see no immediate or easy way out of the financial hole that Rangers is currently in except through years of financial pain with deep cost-cutting and a consequent loss on quality on the pitch.

These guys aren’t bigots and if they were I wouldn’t spend a minute in their company – they are just football supporters who happen to follow Rangers. Many are well aware that all sorts of signals were there in DM days and some feel perhaps more should have been done but they are realistic that Murray called the tune pure and simple. Football is also their hobby and escape from their own business pressures – it isn’t a cause or a way of life.

None of them had any problem with stadium renaming and I would say that they 100% would rather they owned their ground outright and that is based on a mixture of emotion, history and business sense. But I think all are well aware that sale and lease-back is a real possibility. Not one is saying they will walk away if the stadium is sold. Like most fans I think they are hoping that something turns-up. There is little else they can do but pay their money and support their team.

They aren’t happy about the people who are controlling the club and have never been fans of Green. I haven’t spoken to any of therm since Walter was appointed but I have a feeling some will be cautious about his ability to control the situation. However most will remain and buy their season tickets but if the new signings and McCoist doesn’t provide better football I have the feeling they might not go to as many games.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:35 am - Jun 2, 2013


Althetim says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 11:00

The Herald once had a decent sports section. I’m old enough to remember that
===============================================================

More importantly they used to have a switched-on business section with dedicated staff who could have actually correctly analysed what was going on at Ibrox and reported on it with objectivity and balance for the business community who used to read the newspaper. There were also a few good news reporters as well.

They have gone like the financial expertise – it never ceases to amaze me that the biggest business story to hit Scotland in years has become the province of sport reporters to pontificate on – Alice through the Looking Glass doesn’t actually have a look-in.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:40 am - Jun 2, 2013


goosygoosy says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 11:20

This scenario could develop rapidly
ST sales rocket on the prospect of SPL2 next season
====================================================

I’m not so sure about that as the Darkside fansites have a lot of Bears totally opposed to accepting any SPL2 invitation. They sound quite serious about it but it’s always hard to know how many of the keyboard warriors actually have STs or attend games.

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ecobhoyPosted on11:43 am - Jun 2, 2013


chipm0nk says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 10:55

ecobhoy says:
Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 10:47

On the last interview I saw, on STV, he didn’t look much a like a tee totaller to me.

========================================================

You cynic you – I believe everything he said 🙂

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newtzPosted on11:46 am - Jun 2, 2013


briggsbhoy says:

Sunday, June 2, 2013 at 10:11
—————————————-

Twitter account is …

twitter.com/Michel_UEFAlini

#WasteOfTime

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