The Existence of Laws

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The Existence of Laws

A Blog by James Forrest for TSFM

I am a socialist, and as a socialist I believe in the fundamental goodness of people. Some people find that hard to believe when they read the stuff I write.

I published my first novel recently, on politics and the corrupting nature of it, and it is a deeply cynical book, a book where no-one has clean hands come the end. What has surprised some of those who’ve read it is that I didn’t focus on the lies and smears of the right, but the hypocrisy and deceit of those who claim to be of the left.

Corruption, you see, doesn’t respect political boundaries or points of view. It’s like rainwater. It finds every crack, and gets in there.

My political beliefs revolve around two apparently paradoxical elements; the belief in the inherent decency of people and the need for a strong, and powerful, state. I believe the second underpins the first, and this brings me into conflict with a lot of people, some on the left and some on the right. Too many people see the state as inherently evil, as something that interferes too much in the lives of ordinary people. As something suffocating.

Yet the state exists to protect us. It exists to provide a safety net. It exists to regulate and to oversee. If the state is made up of bad people, if the gears of society are captured by those with malicious or selfish intent, the results are obvious; war, corruption, chaos.

The vast majority of our problems in the modern age can be neatly summed up in two lines from Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming”, which I used to open my novel. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”

We live in a time when those who are protecting their own interests have assumed such power that they’ve cowed the rest of us. They have become a law unto themselves. They have changed the nature of the game, because they have sapped our will to the extent some barely put up a fight anymore. The weak get weaker, and the strong use their strength to crush the rest even more. It is a vicious struggle, a downward spiral.

Society is held together not only by the endeavour and common interests of its citizens but by a collection of laws. We elect the people who make those laws. They do so in our name, and we can remove that right every four years. That is a powerful thing, and we do not appreciate it enough. The present corruption exists because we allow it to exist.

The people around me continue to puzzle over my uncommon interest in the affairs of a football club on the west of Glasgow. My own club plays in the east end. I tell those who ask that my primary interest in the goings-on at the club calling itself Rangers is no longer about football; how could it be, after all? With promotion this year they are still a full two divisions below us, emasculated, skint, weak and unstable. If we were fortunate enough to draw them in cup competition the match would be over, as a tie, by the halfway point … in the first half.

In footballing terms they are an utter irrelevance.

Rangers is more than a football club to me. They are a symbol. Their unfolding calamity is an on-going outrage. What is happening there, what is being allowed to happen, is an offense to decency. It is a stain on the face of our country.

In short, it is a scandal. It is a scandal without parallel in sport.

Yet it’s not just a sports story either. If it was, I might not be so focussed on it. What is happening at Rangers is a colossal failure of governance. It is a damning indictment against the very people who are supposed to oversee our game. It is a disgraceful abrogation of responsibility from those at the top, those who claim to be “running things.”

If this is not a failure of governance it is a result of corruption at the heart of our national sport. It says they are bought and paid for, and I will say no such thing here.

So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. We’ll say instead that what they are is weak, indecisive, inept and disconnected from reality.

It reminds me of our political class, which has become insular and ignorant about what the public wants, and what it needs. It’s not a wonder parties like UKIP can achieve national vote shares of 25% at local elections. Nigel Farage strikes me as a dog-whistle politician, the kind who knows how to appeal to a select group of voters. He is little different to Charles Green, the man who beguiled Rangers fans into handing over large amounts of money, because he was “standing up for the club.” It is easy to do what he did, easy to do what Farage is doing.

Real leadership requires toughness. Say what you like about the Tories, but they have that in spades. Yeats was right about the worst being full of passionate intensity. Green was. Farage is. Cameron and Osborne personify it in their political outlook.

It is easy to be cowed by blunt force politics, and by “tough talking Yorkshire men” and venomous speeches about “strivers and skivers.” The politics of divide and conquer is the oldest form of politics there is, and it’s no surprise to see it practiced by some of the vested interests in the game here in Scotland. Yet, lest we forget … something significant happened last year. The maligned and the ignored, the weak and the voiceless found something they never realised they had. They discovered that, in a very real sense, the power was in their hands.

Last year, the fans rose up when the governing bodies and the media went all-out to save Rangers from the self-inflicted wounds caused by a decade of cheating, malpractice and ineptitude. I have no problem calling that what it was.

What happened at Rangers seemed incredible, but it was all too predictable, and some of us had been talking about it for years before it hit. The Association seemed caught in the headlights but it would amaze me if they really were as insular and ignorant as they appeared. They must have known how bad the outlook was for Rangers. They just chose to ignore it.

They were aided and abetted by a thoroughly disreputable media, a collection of cowards and compromisers, charlatans and frauds, masquerading as journalists, but who long ago laid aside any claim to be bold investigators and settled for commenting on events as they unfolded. More often than not, with their ill-informed opinions, sometimes due to weaknesses in intellect and others wilfully ignorant, they failed even in that.

Entire newspapers became PR machines for crooks and swindlers. They aided in the scam because they didn’t do their jobs, some because they were lazy, some because they were incompetent and others because they wanted a seat at the table and were willing to sacrifice whatever integrity they once had in exchange for one.

That all of this was embraced by the Rangers fans is amazing to me. They trusted when they should have been asking questions. They closed their eyes, covered their ears and sang their battle tunes at the top of their voices so they wouldn’t have to hear anything they didn’t like. As incredible as I found it then, and still find it now – and now, even more so, when they have already seen the results of it once – I find it pathetic too, and I do feel pity for some of them.

A lot of these people are genuine football fans, and nothing more. They have no interest in the phony narrow nationalism, or the over-blown religion, or the notion of supremacy which manifested itself in a ludicrous statement from McCoist when interviewed recently on Sky.

Some of the Rangers fans look at their team of duds, kids and journeymen, they look at a boardroom of cowards and crooks, they look at a failing manager in his first (and last) job in the game and at a dark future and are not in the least bit impressed by, or interested in, the chest-out arrogance espoused in those ridiculous words “we are the people.” They know full well that their present crisis was made by men like McCoist, and they understand that pretentious posturing is not an act born of strength, but a scrambling around in the gutter, and a symptom of weakness.

They understand their position, and they hate it. And because they care about Rangers, because they value the club, because they cherish those things that made it a great Scottish institution, they want that back. They understand that before the Union Jack waving, Sash singing, poppy wearing, Nazi saluting, Orange element became the public face of their support Rangers meant something else, and that, above all things, is what pains them the most.

People do not hate Rangers. When the country appeared to turn its back last year, they were turning the back on favouritism and the bending of rules. Yet it would be a lie to say that there is not an element of dislike in the gleeful mockery of many rival fans.

But they don’t hate Rangers either. They hate the version of it around which a certain section of the support continues to dance. They hate the version which hates, and so too do many, many, many Rangers supporters, and they definitely deserve better.

David Murray chose not to openly challenge that version. Indeed, he encouraged certain strands of it to flourish and grow, with his “Britishness Days” and his effort to turn the club into the “team that supports the troops.” Other clubs have done as much, if not more, for the British Army than the one that plays out of Ibrox. Other clubs have given more money. Other clubs have lent their support to those on the front lines. They just chose to do it with respect, and with class, and with dignity. They chose to do it in private, understanding that there eventually comes a tipping point between looking after the ends of the soldiers and using them to promote your own.

The army has not battened on to Rangers. Rangers has battened on to them, and although it is unclear when an altruistic motive became darker, what started out as a gesture of solidarity is now used to entrench division and promote a notion of superiority.

Craig Whyte took over from Murray and immediately understood the lure of the “dog whistle.” He knew too that the media would accept whatever he told them, without question, and as he spoke up for “Rangers traditions” he made sure the lunatic fringe was well onside. He met face to face with the hard-core extremists in the support first and made them his praetorian guard. They spoke up for him until the day the club entered administration.

So, whereas Murray pandered to them and Whyte used them to further his own ends, it was only a matter of time before someone suggested to Charles Green that he could use the same tactics to win over the support. He went even further and blatantly promoted and encouraged this mind-set, and stoked the hate and nonsense to frightening new heights. The same people who cheered Whyte to the rafters jumped on board the Big Blue Bus and the results are clear.

Through all of it, the ordinary Rangers fan has seen his club buffered against the rocks, battered, broken, smashed to smithereens and sunk. Now there’s a big hole in the side of the lifeboat, and they are terrified that further tragedies await.

They are right to be concerned. Much of the media is still not telling them what they need to know. The people in charge of their club – the owners who have lied, the former hack who covered up the truth about Whyte and now acts as a mouthpiece for Green, the “club legends” who are content to sup with the devil and take his greasy coin when they should be standing toe-to-toe with the fans – are trying to silence those members of the press who do have facts to present.

How many times now have media outlets been banned from Ibrox for daring to report the truth? The manager who demanded the names of a committee last year defends those inside the walls who are desperate to keep secret the things that are going on. He is either an unprincipled coward, or he is, himself, bought and paid for. The fans suffer for it.

The “inconvenient truth” is still being kept from them, and this denies them any chance to play an active role in their club. Indeed, it is all too possible that they’ve passed a point of no return, and that their club is heading for a new liquidation event and it can no longer be stopped.

In either case, their power has been eroded to the point at which they must feel they have nothing left to do but stand back and watch what happens next.

They are wrong. I am a socialist. I believe in the inherent good of people. I think the ordinary decent Rangers fans are the only people left who can save their club … and the means by which they will do it is as simple as it could be.

They must stand up for “big government.” They must embrace the need for a “strong state.” They must lobby the SFA, and they must trust the SFA and they must get the SFA to follow its own rules and thereby save them from any further harm.

There is a tendency amongst some Celtic fans to see our governing bodies as pro-Rangers. If it is true then those running our game are ruining Scottish football without benefiting the thing they love more. The incalculable harm that has been done to Rangers in the last 20 some months is a direct result of the subservient media and the willingness of the football authorities to be “deaf, dumb and blind.” Those who believe this has actually helped the Ibrox club have not been paying attention in class. It has irrevocably scarred them, and it may yet have played a hand in destroying them once and for all, as a force if not as a club entirely.

For years, the SFA sat and did nothing as a club in their association operated a sectarian signing policy. They did nothing whilst the fans sang sectarian songs. In their failure to act they strengthened those elements of the Rangers support, instead of isolating, alienating and eventually helping to eliminate those who saw that club as a totem pole of division and hate. Their failure over EBT’s, and their lack of scrutiny, led to one of the greatest scandals in the history of sport, and I say that with no equivocation at all. The testimony of their registrations officer in the Lord Nimmo Smith investigation was a disgrace and in years to come it will rank as one of the most disreputable and damaging moments in the association’s history.

The most egregious failures of all were the failures in the so-called “fit and proper person” tests, which allowed first Whyte and then Charles Green to assume controlling positions at Ibrox. They will pass the buck and say the responsibility lies with the club itself, in much the same way as they are content to let the club investigate itself at the present time, but any neutral who looks at this stance knows it is unprincipled and spineless. It’s like letting the defence set the terms at a trial. It is foxes investigating the chicken coop.

It is a blueprint for corruption, and a recipe for disaster.

It is now too late for the SFA to declare Green “unfit”, as it was too late when they finally slapped that title on Craig Whyte. He and his allies own Rangers, and they control its destiny. They can push the club to the wall if they choose, in the final extremity, if that gets them what they want. The time for changing that is past. The damage has already been done. The barbarians are not at the gates. They are inside the walls, and sacking the city.

The SFA will be forced to punish Rangers for the sins of the owners, for the second time in as many years, and whilst it is right that the club face up to that, all the better to send a message to other clubs and other owners, the SFA cannot be allowed to slither off the hook here as though this was none of their doing. Green will skip off into the sunset. Craig Whyte has yet to pay his fine. These people never cared about Scottish football and they don’t care now.

The SFA are supposed to. Our governing body is supposed to govern, for the good of the whole game, and not as a support system for a single club. What they have allowed to happen on their watch is absolutely shameful and if the people responsible were men at all, with any sense of accountability, they would resign en masse.

They can pretend ignorance, but only the truly ignorant would accept that. Craig Whyte was not inside Ibrox a week before RTC and other sites were dismantling his entire business history, with some of the people here doing the work the SFA would not. Whyte himself claims to have made the governing bodies aware of the scale of what was facing the club, and they did nothing at all. Heads should have rolled a year ago.

In October of last year, on this very site, I posted an article in which I wrote:

“Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.

To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.”

There are times when it is fun to be right, but this is not one of them. It is dispiriting and disquieting to have been so on the nose. It scares the Hell out of me, as someone who loves football in this country, to have seen this matter clearly when the people running our game apparently either did not or chose to ignore very real, very obvious, concerns. The Internet Bampots had no special insight or access to information that was denied those at the SFA. We just weren’t prepared to ignore it and pretend that it wasn’t there. There was too much at stake.

I have become convinced that things will never change until the Rangers supporters join us in demanding the full and unabridged truth here. They need to come out from under the bed, and confront their fears. They need to be willing to take the consequences, so that their club can emerge clean from this, and start again, with all this behind them.

And it can all happen with one simple thing. The application of the rules.

The existence of laws comes down to a simple principle; they protect society from those elements within it who are interested only in their own selfish ends. We may cry out at those rules and regulations we see as “restrictive”, but the law was not made to restrict our freedoms but to protect them. Had the SFA years ago acted against Rangers sectarian signing policy, and the songs from the stands, the club would not have mutated to the point where there was no help on hand when they needed it the most. Let’s not kid ourselves about this; Whyte and Green were only able to grab control because the club itself has a dreadful image which put off respectable and responsible buyers. The SFA could have helped change that perception years ago and did nothing.

The SFA could have conducted its own investigation into who Craig Whyte was. They could have asked David Murray for full disclosure when he was running up £80 million of debt, a sum of money that is beyond belief for a single club in a small provincial backwater league. Had they had the guts to do that the club would never have spent itself into oblivion and forced the hand of Lloyds, which led indirectly to their ignominious end.

The SFA could have fully investigated Charles Green and the means by which he took control, instead of rushing through a license. His emergence at the last minute was transparently suspicious and designed to force them into a quick decision, but they did not have to bow to that pressure by making one, without being in possession of the facts, as it is now 100% clear they were not.

Had they asked for every document, had they insisted on legal affidavits and personal securities from investors (and this would have been perfectly legitimate and is common place in other licensing areas) none of this would have come to pass. After Craig Whyte they had a moral responsibility to the rest of the game to get this one right and their failure is without parallel in the history of Scottish football.

As the club hurtles towards a new abyss, names are cropping up which should send a shudder down the spines of every honest, genuine supporter of not only Rangers but every team in the land. The SFA claims that a strong Rangers is essential for the sake of Scottish football, but they have been extraordinarily lax in protecting that club, and therefore the game, from destructive elements. Craig Whyte and Charles Green had dubious personal histories, and the acquisition of the club itself was mired in controversy and scandal. Yet it was allowed.

Neither Green nor Whyte were known to have operated outside the law, yet neither was worthy of trust or stood up to scrutiny. Neither man should ever have been granted the status as fit and proper persons to assume a role in our national sport, and if it is true of them what can we say about the three men who are, presently, being touted as the Great White Hopes for a bright, new Rangers future; Dave King and the Easdale brothers?

King recently cut a deal with the South African government over an on-going dispute over taxes. In other words, he pled guilty and accepted the central plank of their argument; that for years he was engaged in wilfully with-holding vast revenues from their Treasury. The media does not like to put it like that, and the SFA seems willing to ignore it utterly, and this would be scandalous enough. But it does not stop there. HRMC rules – as well as the SFA’s own governance documents – actually bar him from serving on the board of the new club.

Last but not least, aside from being an admitted tax cheat, King is also awaiting trial in South Africa, having been indicted for corruption, forgery and fraud – 300 charges in total. Yet as recently as last week, we were told that the Association was willing to look at him and consider representations from his lawyers. This is almost beyond belief.

If Dave King’s position is untenable, and he is yet to be convicted of a crime, what can we say about the position of the Easdale’s? One of the two brothers, Sandy, has already served jail time. He is a convicted criminal, a fraudster nonetheless, who’s “victim” was the same Treasury who are appealing one case involving the old club and liquidated it entirely over another. This is precisely the kind of “businessman” the fit and proper person test was supposed to weed out, and if the SFA holds its nose here the reek will stink out the halls at Hampden for decades. If King or the Easdale’s are judged fit and proper, then who exactly is the test for? What exactly do you have to do to fail it? How do we explain the existence of laws, when these are not applied?

Pascal says “Law without force is impotent.” The SFA’s weakness has allowed one version of Rangers to destroy itself, and has allowed an existential risk to another. If the next power at Rangers resides in South Africa or Greenock I can say with some certainty that the Association is engaged in an even more dangerous roll of the dice, because the surfacing of fresh scandal will be an ever present risk, and will be of the sort no-one will survive.

The damage to Scottish football will take years to heal. The Scottish game has been through enough trauma. It does not need more. It barely survived the last calamity to hit Rangers. The rest of us should not be forced to pay the price of the next one.

The greater damage will be done to Rangers itself. If the Green crisis ends in another collapse – as it well might; another administration event is a certainty, and another liquidation is a much more likely prospect than it was before 14 February 2012 – the club will once again have to start from the bottom, and this time the reputational damage will be impossible to repair. The club faces internal strife, sporting sanctions, and criminal investigations. The last takeover might be declared a fraud. the Whyte takeover will almost certainly be. The share issue might be invalid, as well as criminal, and the people involved may well end up in jail. Lawsuits could follow from investors, there could be as yet unknown consequences from the Upper Tier Tax Tribunal (thank you Brogan Rogan for pointing out what those might be) and a host of other issues.

Rangers fans must be the loudest voices here. How do you want the world to view your club in years to come? Do you want one to be proud of, or one forever associated with the shame and disgrace of these days gone by? The one which bailed out on its tax obligations. The one with supporters who disgrace your very name. The one which allowed Whyte and Green to take you to the cleaners and send you to the wall. The one which handed over control to one convicted criminal and another awaiting trial. Do you want to be reborn clean, or mired in the muck?

David Murray destroyed your financial stability. He made it so no bank would issue you a line of credit and no investor of note wanted to buy. Craig Whyte liquidated you. Charles Green has cast the future of the Newco into doubt and acted in a manner which has annihilated your credibility with the financial markets for decades to come.

Between these three men, they have taken everything from you, and the press and the people who run the game here, as well as some of your own blindly ignorant fans, have allowed them to do all this and more. Now they conspire to hand the keys to Ibrox to other men of questionable character, who will wreck further havoc on the reputation of the club.

The Scottish Football Association has damaged the game it was supposed to protect, but above all else their greatest failure of governance was a failure to protect one of its biggest clubs from its own excesses and those of its owners.

Rangers fans, the SFA have betrayed your trust, more than the trust of any other club. What you must insist on now is full disclosure and transparency from the powers that be in Hampden. The SFA has to end the charade of allowing your club to handle this in-house. They must hand everything over to an outside agency – whether a legal one, or a footballing body like UEFA – and they must demand co-operation and answers, and threaten to withhold the license if they don’t get them.

You must not be afraid of that. You must embrace it. The men with their hands on the gears at Ibrox are motivated by money, and nothing more. If the license is withdrawn their “investments” are worthless. They cannot risk that.

You must demand that the rules on fit and proper persons are applied, and where necessary even made stronger, to prevent your club falling into unclean hands. You must demand that they protect your reputation from further damage, by getting this all out there and acting accordingly, even if that means your club does not play football for at least a year.

You must be willing to suck it all up, knowing that what will emerge is a Rangers which has been cleansed and moves forward with honour, and dignity, led by custodians who treasure it rather than those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

The Rangers Standard has recently emerged as a genuine voice for those in your support who are sick and tired of what Rangers has become, and want it restored to something that is worthy of the love and respect in which you hold it. On that website, there are discussions about the kind of club you seek to be and about whether the institution of Rangers is about more than just football.

If that’s how you feel about it then you know it is about more than how many titles the club can claim, about more than just results on the park, about more than just the game. Rangers, like Celtic, is an idea. It has to be something you are proud of.

I am a socialist, but one with a fevered imagination and a tendency to write very dark things. This piece won’t have been good reading for some of you (perhaps all of you haha!) but I think there’s more hope in here than in other things I’ve written.

In spite of everything that’s come to pass, I still believe. I believe in Scottish football. I believe in our system of football governance, even if those who are working in it are failing on some level.

In society, as much as we strain against them, laws exist for our protection. To fail to enforce them is to leave us at the mercy of those elements who would do us harm. The rules of football ensure the protection of all clubs, not just a few.

The failure to enforce the rules has never had graver consequences than here in Scotland.  The irony is that bending and breaking them has hurt the one club those violations were designed to help. It cannot be allowed to happen again.

The rules must be applied without fear or favour.

The best must find their conviction, and their passionate intensity once more.

James is a co-editor of the On Fields of Green Blog http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/

About the author

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Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

5,802 Comments so far

Caveat Emptor

Caveat EmptorPosted on12:04 pm - Jun 6, 2013


ecobhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 11:49
1 0 Rate This
I think that you have to remember that, unlike the other two FTTT members, Heidi Poone isn’t a lawyer but an accountant. She understood the evidence in terms of what it meant in real life terms and not buried in legal jargon designed to give an ‘alternative universe’ disguise to what EBTs were actually all about.
______________________________
Ecoobhoy, wasn’t aware that Dr Poon was an accountant! Will re-read the relevant sections and I am sure that this will give me a fresh perspective. Cheers!

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Danish PastryPosted on12:23 pm - Jun 6, 2013


ecobhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 11:49
1 1 Rate This

“… Lord Mance said in paragraph 21 that “the proper approach is contextual and purposive”. He cited Prenn v Simmonds [1971] 1 WLR 1381, in which Lord Wilberforce said at pp 1383 to 1384:

“We must . . . enquire beyond the language and see what the circumstances were with reference to which the words were used, and the object, appearing from those circumstances, which the person using them had in view.”
———–

That’s deep ecobhoy. If that sentiment is present at the upcoming appeal then there might be a different outcome to the tax case. But does anyone really believe that the appeal will amount to anything? Mr Baxendale-Walker appears to have helped one football club do to the taxman what he’s now doing in his movies, if that’s not putting too fine a point on it.

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bogsdolloxPosted on12:29 pm - Jun 6, 2013


ecobhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 11:49
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good point in your last paragraph. I am expecting the UTT to put a “purposive” interpretation on the case as opposed to the narrow legalistic interpretation sold to two of the FTT by the showman and clever conjurer Thornhill and that is why TRFC will lose.

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AuldheidPosted on12:40 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Ecobhoy

For a totally different perspective on Poon at FTT v her 2 colleagues as well as the Bryson interpretation that influenced LNS and the ongoing battle to justify wrongs as right along with a prediction made 2000 years ago that is happening as predicted; try Googling “The Woe of The Pharisees.”
It suggests as long as the mindset that concentrates on the minutiae of the laws and ignores justice and mercy and continues to do so, the adherents to that mindset are doomed to experience more woe.
Time that mindset looked at where its thinking is taking it (their own version of hell) and had a rethink.
It also makes sense of the old saying ” Hell mend them” but not as an eternal curse but as a merciful if painful means of bringing about a change in a flawed mindset.
So much going on here at so many levels, creation at its very best.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on1:15 pm - Jun 6, 2013


For our Dundee F.C. posters:

Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 37s

Maurice Kidd resignation comes on heels of @BBCSportScot story last night that the three directors who resigned will rejoin the board.
Expand
Jim Spence Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 1m

Maurice Kidd resigns as a Director of both Dundee Football Club Ltd. and Dundee F.C. Supporters’ Society with immediate effect.
Expand
Jim Spence Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 5m

Dundee FC expect Gavin Rae at Dens shortly. He is on his way up from his A licence coaching course at Largs to sign a one year deal

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manandboyPosted on1:19 pm - Jun 6, 2013


ecobhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 11:49

She (Dr Heidi Poon) understood the evidence in terms of what it meant in real life terms and not buried in legal jargon designed to give an ‘alternative universe’ disguise to what EBTs were actually all about.
___________________________________________________________________________

Precisely.

The key words are ‘buried’ and ‘ disguise’.

Dr Poon was trying to uncover the truth and, usually, simple language does the job perfectly.

While RFC’s lawyers were trying desperately to bury or disguise the truth.

Simple language in their case would have given the game away.

.
The two words are still very relevant of course and indeed sum up the entire story –

RFC’s corpse is waiting to be buried by the liquidators

while TRFC, with disguise firmly in place, trying each day to force everyone to believe the big blue lie.

TRFC now closing in on the title of ‘Scotland’s longest Farce’.

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on1:28 pm - Jun 6, 2013


regarding Laxey getting some of greens shares……I saw this comment posted on KDS in regards to their “troublesome” ways with other companies elsewhere

“Laxey owns less than the 5pc share threshold necessary to force resolutions to be put to the vote at the annual meeting.

But Kingsnorth has got round this by setting up 100 subsidiary companies so he can demand a resolution is voted upon based on the ‘100 shareholders’ rule.”

I’m pretty sure this laxey move is either

1. Green repaying then for funding during the initial purchase of assets
2. Green putting someone in to “rock the boat” and force dividend payment to investors and/or the sale of ibrox and/or demand TRFC pay rent for ibrox and/or force the sale of the loss making company TRFC.
3. Both of above!

this would ensure that RIFC would be billing TRFC for finances/facilities provided and that any cash in RIFC bank is paid back to shareholders in dividends (from which green would directly benefit or may subsequently benefit from a rising RIFC share price)

it would also take Green et al directly out of the firing line for putting hte thumb screws on TRFC and instead they could blame some shiftless/faceless money grabbing corporate types!

Either way, a very messy ending is not too far away…..maybe by the end of next season.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on1:41 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 2m

Time to get real I’m afraid. Cut out the nonsense or RFIC will go bust. Monthly costs. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22748254 … versus http://i.imgur.com/LlQrXbK.jpg

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ecobhoyPosted on1:44 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 12:23

ecobhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 11:49
1 1 Rate This

“… Lord Mance said in paragraph 21 that “the proper approach is contextual and purposive”. He cited Prenn v Simmonds [1971] 1 WLR 1381, in which Lord Wilberforce said at pp 1383 to 1384:

“We must . . . enquire beyond the language and see what the circumstances were with reference to which the words were used, and the object, appearing from those circumstances, which the person using them had in view.”
=================================================

That’s deep ecobhoy. If that sentiment is present at the upcoming appeal then there might be a different outcome to the tax case. But does anyone really believe that the appeal will amount to anything? Mr Baxendale-Walker appears to have helped one football club do to the taxman what he’s now doing in his movies, if that’s not putting too fine a point on it.
=================================================

It’s a funny one because I do believe ‘legally’ the majority got it wrong at the FTTT and Poon got it right. I really do expect the HMRC Appeal to be successful and if it isn’t I will find the reasons given very interesting.

With LNS I am certain he got it right ‘legally’ as far as the evidence went. The problem was he couldn’t enquire beyond the language because there was no language. So although Bryson’s evidence ultimately torpedoed the SPL case IMO that was only because no counter argument was put. The SPL rolled over in silence.

I believe it resulted in a travesty of justice and I also believe it would have suited the SPL and the SFA for LNS to have got it wrong and applied a sporting sanction which would have been easily brushed aside on appeal. I think a combination of professional ability and being a wily old bird ensured that LNS didn’t turn himself into a sacrificial lamb.

If Rangers had won their Appeal the SPL and SFA could have walked away with a clear conscience, shrugged their shoulders and claimed – in off the record MSM briefings – that they had done everything possible and even ‘won’ the right verdict but were thwarted by the Edinburgh legal Establishment.

Instead the SFA nonsense that once registered a player remains registered for all times no matter what secret offences are being committed year in and year out not just on an individual player’s registration but on dozens of his team mates is just farcical. And all we hear from the SPL at LNS is: ‘Well we never thought of that before and now that you mention it we won’t disagree with that interpretation’.

I have repeatedly said that I think the Bryson argument could have been easily demolished but it wasn’t and there was no attempt to do so. I also happen to think that the SPL rules are quite clear and, if correctly argued, identify in plain language the ordinary meaning of the words and intent of those constructing the rules that the Rangers players were ineligible to play and therefore sporting sanctions could be applied:

SPL Rule D1.11

“Any Club Playing an ineligible Player in an Official Match and the Player concerned
shall be in breach of the Rules.

SPL Rule D1.13

“A Club must as a condition of Registration and for a Player to be eligible to Play in
Official Matches, deliver the executed originals of all Contracts of Service and
Amendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements
providing for payment between that Club and Player, to the Secretary, within fourteen days of such Contract of Service or other agreement being entered into, amended and/or, as the case may be, extended.”

[87 – 88] are the key paras in the LNS Decision and particularly the LNS statement: ‘ In our view, the Rules of the SPL, which admit of a construction consistent with those of the SFA, should be given that construction’.

If the SPL QC had argued against the Bryson position and stuck by the SPL rules and provided the necessary evidence then the SFA and SPL would not have had a ‘consistent construction’ and LNS would have had to have made a decision as to which body was correct.

But he didn’t need to make any decision because the SPL accepted the SFA – or was it Bryson’s – interpretation and the position was ‘legally’ clear. And it was not the LNS job to find or manufacture evidence to suit any notion that entered his head – his job and that of his two colleagues was to make a decision on the evidence presented to them and that’s what they did and I believe they decided correctly.

Had the SPL rules been defended and their case argued with appropriate evidence presented I believe the LNS decision is likely to have been very different and on this critical point I see no way of mounting an appeal even if there was the will to do so.

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ecobhoyPosted on1:52 pm - Jun 6, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 13:41

Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 2m

Time to get real I’m afraid. Cut out the nonsense or RFIC will go bust. Monthly costs. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22748254 … versus http://i.imgur.com/LlQrXbK.jpg
==============================================================

When you actually see the tax and NI involved it’s easy to understand why the EBT route was such an attractive proposition for even more highly-paid players.

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beanosPosted on2:07 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Charlotte sure has access to a variety of confidential documents. Thats a report thats come from Rangers’ payroll system. If I was either of the two employees involved I’m not sure I’d be too happy about that being in the public domain.

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Danish PastryPosted on2:27 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 2m

Time to get real I’m afraid. Cut out the nonsense or RFIC will go bust. Monthly costs. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22748254 … versus http://i.imgur.com/LlQrXbK.jpg

ecobhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 13:44
0 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 12:23

ecobhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 11:49
1 1 Rate This

“… Lord Mance said in paragraph 21 that “the proper approach is contextual and purposive”. He cited Prenn v Simmonds [1971] 1 WLR 1381, in which Lord Wilberforce said at pp 1383 to 1384:

“We must . . . enquire beyond the language and see what the circumstances were with reference to which the words were used, and the object, appearing from those circumstances, which the person using them had in view.”
=================================================

That’s deep ecobhoy. If that sentiment is present at the upcoming appeal then there might be a different outcome to the tax case. But does anyone really believe that the appeal will amount to anything? Mr Baxendale-Walker appears to have helped one football club do to the taxman what he’s now doing in his movies, if that’s not putting too fine a point on it.
=================================================

… I believe it resulted in a travesty of justice and I also believe it would have suited the SPL and the SFA for LNS to have got it wrong and applied a sporting sanction which would have been easily brushed aside on appeal. I think a combination of professional ability and being a wily old bird ensured that LNS didn’t turn himself into a sacrificial lamb.

If Rangers had won their Appeal the SPL and SFA could have walked away with a clear conscience, shrugged their shoulders and claimed – in off the record MSM briefings – that they had done everything possible and even ‘won’ the right verdict but were thwarted by the Edinburgh legal Establishment …
———-

Great stuff ecobhoy. I don’t know how you get the time to put these highly cogent posts together.

It’s a novel insight, and I’d say the only thing that would dissuade me from agreeing 100% with the above is that it implies a degree of intelligence and ingenuity I’m not actually sure our authorities possess 🙂 But it certainly is a welcome alternative to the massive establishment cover-up/turn-a-blind-eye theory, which, although not impossible, seems too machiavellian a plan to set in motion for the sake of a bankrupt and rather dreary football club.

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borussiabeefburgPosted on2:38 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Move over Charlotte Fakes, I’ve got hold of a copy of an email purportedly from Charles Green to Craig Mather with the subject title “Ibrox, list of enemies”

Don’t know if it’s genuine, but it looks reliable to me>

Neil Simpson

Pope Pius IX

Tam Cowan

Pope Pius X

Stuart Cosgrove

Pope Pius XI

Pope John XXIII

Jim Spence

Auldheid

Pope Paul VI

Pope John Paul I

Mullach

Pope John Paul II

Pope Benedict XVI

Eggs Benedict

Ecobhoy

Pope Francis

Pepperami

Pope Pius XII

Noel Hunt

Aggie the tea lady

Stephen Thompson

Peter Lawell

Neil Lennon

Pope Leo XIII

FARE

Rod Petrie

Rod Stewart

Stewart Regan

Hoopy the Huddle Hound

Neil Doncaster

HMRC

Walkers Crisps (Salt and Vinegar)

Paul Elliot

Bob Valentine

Charlotte

Pope Benedict XV

Mark Daly

Jon Daly

The Pogues

Martin O’Neill

Alex Thompson

Craig Whyte

Orlit

Saint Mirren

Saint Johnstone

RTC

U2

George Galloway

Francisco Sandaza

…..continues………….

Don’t seem to have the next part of document yet, feel free to speculate. 🙂

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jerfeelgoodPosted on2:41 pm - Jun 6, 2013


so…. in the are they the same team argument….

People have cited all kinds of arguments. One has been what position UEFA take on the whole debate.

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html

Rangers are listed in 92 based on performances cumulative of the last five seasons, including gaining 0.83 this season for membership of the SFA.

UEFA seem to be convinced of the new club same as old club argument….

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manandboyPosted on2:51 pm - Jun 6, 2013


ecobhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 13:44

Had the SPL rules been defended and their case argued with appropriate evidence presented I believe the LNS decision is likely to have been very different and on this critical point I see no way of mounting an appeal even if there was the will to do so.
____________________________________________________________________________

And yet, ecobhoy, LNS took a different view. (see below – courtesy of PMcC)

LNS took Sandy Bryson’s evidence as all that was required to make his judgement.

Q. Do you have an explanation for why Rod McKenzie for the SPL
allowed Sandy ‘Moses’ Bryson’s statement to be heard unopposed ?

88. Mr Bryson’s evidence about the position of the SFA in this regard was clear. In our view, the Rules of the SPL, which admit of a construction consistent with those of the SFA, should be given that construction.

All parties concerned – clubs, players and footballing authorities – should be able to proceed on the faith of an official register. This means that a player’s registration should generally be treated as standing unless and until revoked.

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/rangers-oldco-not-guilty-of-fielding-ineligible-players-why/

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jockybhoyPosted on3:00 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Compton Mackenzie
Michael Flatley
Mother Theresa
King Edward VIII
Jimmy Cricket…

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bogsdolloxPosted on3:01 pm - Jun 6, 2013


manandboy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 14:51

All parties concerned – clubs, players and footballing authorities – should be able to proceed on the faith of an official register. This means that a player’s registration should generally be treated as standing unless and until revoked.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That interpretation continues to infuriate me. I know it’s been said already many times on here but how can anyone be registered in the first instance if it is later discovered they never met the registration criteria because they withheld key documents as part of “Operation Coverup”

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bluPosted on3:04 pm - Jun 6, 2013


jerfeelgood says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 14:41

UEFA seem to be convinced of the new club same as old club argument….
============================================================
Why won’t UEFA allow Rangers to play in their competitions? Another for the list borussia.

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jerfeelgoodPosted on3:18 pm - Jun 6, 2013


curiouser and curiouser…..

In the thumbs war… I espouse a conclusion based upon evidence…. with no personal opinion…. and I get 8 TD’s in 30 mins…. Never stated any opinion on the matter, whether I support UEFA’s position or not….. Very partisan in here today….

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bluPosted on3:37 pm - Jun 6, 2013


jerfeelgood – you seem to be able to find things out – why does the Rangers website list directors as Smith, Mather, Stockbridge, Murray, Hart, Smart and Cartmell when The Rangers Football Club Limited’s directors are Charles Green and Brian Stockbridge?

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Reilly1926Posted on3:38 pm - Jun 6, 2013


This was posted on Twitter a short while ago by Big Stuart 1888. If you go to section 16 at the bottom of the page it appears that there was a relationship between the 2 companies by TRFC’s own admission.

http://i.imgur.com/LlQrXbK.jpg

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Danish PastryPosted on3:40 pm - Jun 6, 2013


jerfeelgood says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 15:18
3 0 Rate This

curiouser and curiouser…..

In the thumbs war… I espouse a conclusion based upon evidence…. with no personal opinion…. and I get 8 TD’s in 30 mins…. Never stated any opinion on the matter, whether I support UEFA’s position or not….. Very partisan in here today….
———–

Forget the TDs. A silly nonsense that some juvenille soul is manipulating at the moment. I’m laughing at the 24 (and counting) I got above. They are but the Enemas of The Hierarchy 😀

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Reilly1926Posted on3:41 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Andrew Woods says:

Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 15:38

This was posted on Twitter a short while ago by Big Stuart 1888. If you go to section 16 at the bottom of the page it appears that there was a relationship between the 2 companies by TRFC’s own admission.

http://i.imgur.com/LlQrXbK.jpg

==============

Wrong document posted.

http://rangers.g3dhosting.com/regulatory_news_article/296

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on3:41 pm - Jun 6, 2013


wrong link Andrew

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on3:46 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Jerfeelgood,

The same argument was put forward for Derry City.

But, Derry City are still ineligible for european competition due to being a different legal entity, i.e. club.

Same organisation, different application of the rules, starting to see where the SFA learn from.

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jimlarkinPosted on3:58 pm - Jun 6, 2013


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bilderberg-group-secret-meeting-worlds-1936009?

is LNS, ND, SR, Donald Findlay, sandy bryson and members of the FTTT [except H.Poon]
all in attendence

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on4:07 pm - Jun 6, 2013


jockybhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 15:00
===================================
Pugh
Pugh
Barney McGrew
Cuthbert
Dibble
and grub!

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on4:08 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 2h

Tax and NI deductions but those amounts were used to fund players/staff till the cash ran out. They didn’t lose out, unlike HMRC and others.

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finchleyflyerPosted on4:09 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Re today’s payroll information from Charlotte . . . combine that with the signings Sevco have made recently, plus the fact that they’re named as being interested in every Tom, Dick and Van der Harry out there (the latest being ex-DUFC boys Gomis and Bauben), it continues to be impossible to square the circle on income v expenditure at Ibrox. How the hell are they doing it? How can they convince sensible blokes like Jon Daly that they’re good for the money?

Everything seems to be heading towards a massive financial car crash – again – but, it appears that Sevco have the survival skills of a cockroach in Chernobyl. Time and again, they have dodged bullets aimed squarely at their heads (to mix a few metaphors), and come out virtually unscathed, and, like a character in a bad horror movie, seemingly indestructible. How?

Someone, please, how?

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beatipacificiscotiaPosted on4:19 pm - Jun 6, 2013


jerfeelgood says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 14:41

You will also note that, according to UEFA, Rangers played their most recent game on 13th May 2012, a 4-0 victory against St Johnstone.

http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=50121/domestic/index.html

Would seem that UEFA disagree with your conclusion. I can only assume it is Rangers Mk1’s points accummulated prior to their demise, and the reason they remain on the list. They will drop off that list soon enough.

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jimlarkinPosted on4:20 pm - Jun 6, 2013


http://i.imgur.com/uhbt0RW.jpg

what is the significance of this doc ?

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wottpiPosted on4:29 pm - Jun 6, 2013


jerfeelgood says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 14:41

I think some of the TDs relate to this being old news.

The same UEFA list has FC Unirea Urziceni on the list at 107 and they are definitely deid (2011)

IIRC the oldco will keep showing up the list as it relates to historical data with the co-effiecient points being carried over from year to year.

At some time in the future if they are out of Europe long enough they may not appear on the list or be down the bottom with a 0.000 ranking.

That being said Unireas points went up despite being deid. Zombies indeed!!!

If they do make it back in to UEFA competitions in the future then what they are named on the list will be the telling factor.

So if you have an opinion write to UEFA and ask for either
a) Rangers FC
b) The Rangers FC

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Celtic Paranoia (@CelticParanoia)Posted on4:36 pm - Jun 6, 2013


finchleyflyer says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 16:09
4 0 i
Rate This
Re today’s payroll information from Charlotte . . . combine that with the signings Sevco have made recently, plus the fact that they’re named as being interested in every Tom, Dick and Van der Harry out there (the latest being ex-DUFC boys Gomis and Bauben), it continues to be impossible to square the circle on income v expenditure at Ibrox. How the hell are they doing it? How can they convince sensible blokes like Jon Daly that they’re good for the money?

——————————————————————

If “sensible” guys like Jon Daly are getting all their information from the MSM then I don’t think they will need much convincing.

All he’ll see and hear about is moonbeams and creative interpretations of rules, regulations and the new doublespeak – “red tape” that constrains Ally’s ability to use £20million warchest to bolster his squad.

Remember this site, like the RTC predecessor, is 99% crap that doesn’t make it into the MSM so the PR machine does the convincing for them

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on5:00 pm - Jun 6, 2013


From KDS 15 mins ago.don’t know if it’s new info though:

2 x TM01s at companies house one for RIFC the other for Sevco Scotland

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Danish PastryPosted on5:18 pm - Jun 6, 2013


jimlarkin says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 16:20
1 0 Rate This
http://i.imgur.com/uhbt0RW.jpg

what is the significance of this doc ?
———–

Jim, someone will no doubt correct if I’m wrong, but I believe the import of that snippet is to prove that Charlotte has her paws on the entire unvetted transcript of the FTTT. She did say she had the 5-Way too.

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AuldheidPosted on5:18 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Jerfeelgood

I would be surprised if The Rangers coefficient has been revisited since The Rangers are not eligible for Europe and only in that event will the coefficient be examined.

If it has been revisited it would be enlightening to know what the coefficient rules say about the weight given to a liquidated clubs previous participation/performance in UEFA competition and how that weighting applies or will apply in the event The Rangers eventually qualify for Europe on sporting merit unencumbered by the rules that keep them out.

It might help if the UEFA exclusion timeline was shown.

May/June 2012 Rangers (oldco in administration) are excluded from Europe for one year (or for as many years as it takes to address the reason for exclusion) because they failed to provide SFA with audited accounts AND had an unpaid £14m tax/ni bill (not to mention the wee tax bill)

October 2012 On liquidation of Rangers oldco The Rangers (newco) were excluded for 3 years because they had not been a member of the SFA for 3 years. When the 3 years are up and assuming The Rangers have audited accounts and paid their taxes The Rangers will be granted a UEFA licence enabling them to play in Europe.

Note
Rangers not allowed in for accounts and unpaid tax reasons.
The Rangers not allowed in for three years because membership of national association only began in August 2012 when cva failed and liquidation started becoming official in Oct 2012.
There is maybe an argument the three years started in October 2012 and not August but that would be churlish and petty imo.
The UEFA argument is a bit of a two edged sword and not an arena I would have picked to argue the case.

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paulmac2Posted on5:18 pm - Jun 6, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:

Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 16:08

Quantcast
Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 2h

Tax and NI deductions but those amounts were used to fund players/staff till the cash ran out. They didn’t lose out, unlike HMRC and others.
…………………………………………..
So players received tax money as wages….money that was earmarked for….hospitals…schools…pensioners…charity…armed forces….etc… etc….

How does Ally and the rest at that club sleep at night?….sorry forgot….THEY HAVE NO SHAME!

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jerfeelgoodPosted on5:19 pm - Jun 6, 2013


I thought the information was current and not old as the list was compiled 30/5/13.

While I was aware of the debate re derry city, I was unaware of the issue regarding Unirea.

I sent the following e-mail to info@uefa.com as a response.

Heya,

Could you please forward this to the relevant department for response.

I had a couple of questions regarding the recently updated club rankings table published on your official site.

The document at http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html has thrown up a couple of questions in a discussion that I was having recently.

On this list, FC Unirea Urziceni have been awarded ranking points for the last two seasons despite having been dissolved as a club and entity at the end of 2010/11 season.

There may be examples of other teams showing similar circumstances, but this was the example that was cited to me and as a result is the one which I will use as the basis for my questions.

Could you please respond to the following questions:

1. Is this an error on the document?

2. How can a non existent club be awarded ranking points?

3. Is it an error in how the excel spreadsheet compiles the document from formulae embedded in the spreadsheet?

4. As this is the current status of the UEFA club rankings, Do UEFA consider it fair that a non existent club still have a place on the current table as this in turn pushes all teams below them down a ranking place?
I have farther questions but they are entirely dependent on answers from these questions.

Any help gratefully appreciated,

Does anybody know if UEFA reply to public email enquiries of this nature?

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ecobhoyPosted on5:20 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Andrew Woods says:

Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 15:38

This was posted on Twitter a short while ago by Big Stuart 1888. If you go to section 16 at the bottom of the page it appears that there was a relationship between the 2 companies by TRFC’s own admission.

http://rangers.g3dhosting.com/regulatory_news_article/296
==========================================================

I’m assuming your referring to the Related Party Transactions – that material was contained in the Rangers AIM Prospectus back in Nov/early Dec 2012. It led to various actions by CW and also complaints to AIM about Green being a director of various companies not listed on the AIM Document which was eventually rectified by an AIM Notice being issued.

The moves by Green of course have continued around Sevco 5088 and its links to Rangers and the asset purchase of oldco from D&P.

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Brian McHugh (@pbmchugh)Posted on5:22 pm - Jun 6, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
try this
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=12095&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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ecobhoyPosted on5:32 pm - Jun 6, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 17:00

From KDS 15 mins ago.don’t know if it’s new info though:
2 x TM01s at companies house one for RIFC the other for Sevco Scotland
===================================================================

It’s just Green’s resignation paperwork catching-up at Companies House although there will be a whole slew of other ones for the RIFC Plc subsidiary companies.

I notice however there is, as yet, no resignation lodged for Rangers Retail Ltd which is the joint company set up between Rangers and Mike Ashley’s SportsDirect. Maybe just a delay and might not mean anything.

Looks as though Green isn’t coming back so it will be interesting to see whether he still has rangeritis or whether it will turn to rageritis against Rangers after declaring the other day that his dreams for the club have turned to ashes.

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Danish PastryPosted on5:34 pm - Jun 6, 2013


I thought ozyhibby might post this, but anyway, there could be two good movies coming up. We know that CW has the film rights for the big screen version of the RFC demise. But Hearts’ fans may want a piece of the action too:

(From The Scotsman)

“Last night, on the Hearts fan site Kickback, team supporters reacted to news of the threatened warrant. [to arrest Vlad]

“If Mr Romanov needs a place to hide, I will help him, Please god let him be ok. This witch hunt is a disgrace”, wrote one sympathetic poster. Another, called Ratnrave, said: “The entertainment that this guy has provided is amazing … There has to be a film made about all this.”

Who’ll play Vlad?

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ecobhoyPosted on5:34 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Also interesting that Green’s resignation hasn’t come through for Sevco 5088 – now that is one worth watching for.

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jimlarkinPosted on5:36 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 17:18

jimlarkin says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 16:20

http://i.imgur.com/uhbt0RW.jpg

what is the significance of this document?
———–

Jim, someone will no doubt correct if I’m wrong, but I believe the import of that snippet is to prove that Charlotte has her paws on the entire unvetted transcript of the FTTT.
She did say she had the 5-Way too.

========================================

re; the FTTT – does the transcript matter…is it not the ‘decision’ that matters?

re; 5 way “agreement” – does that matter. i read somewhere that it wasn’t signed

why bother bragging that she has these ?

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ecobhoyPosted on5:37 pm - Jun 6, 2013


CORRECTION

ecobhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 17:20

The moves by Green of course have continued around Sevco 5088 and its links to Rangers and the asset purchase of oldco from D&P.
====================================================

Should read: The moves by Whyte of course have continued around Sevco 5088 and its links to Rangers and the asset purchase of oldco from D&P.

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ecobhoyPosted on5:48 pm - Jun 6, 2013


jimlarkin says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 17:36

Danish Pastry says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 17:18

jimlarkin says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 16:20

http://i.imgur.com/uhbt0RW.jpg
what is the significance of this document?
———–
Jim, someone will no doubt correct if I’m wrong, but I believe the import of that snippet is to prove that Charlotte has her paws on the entire unvetted transcript of the FTTT.
She did say she had the 5-Way too.
========================================

re; the FTTT – does the transcript matter…is it not the ‘decision’ that matters?
re; 5 way “agreement” – does that matter. i read somewhere that it wasn’t signed
why bother bragging that she has these ?
==================================================
Actual transcripts are often worth much more than decisions as they can reveal all manner of things which can explain things which otherwise seem to defy explanation.

As to the 5-way agreement I don’t know if I am alone in this but I have posted quite often that I believe the reason the football authorities and indeed clubs have failed to publish it is possibly because Rangers refused to sign it.

What would be valuable is if CF has the last draft whether it is signed or not.

I don’t detect ‘bragging’ in how CF is going about her business and I fall into the camp that she is sending signals with the material she publishes. Sometimes those signals might be warnings only fully understood by the parties they are aimed at. Other times she’s having a laugh IMO and just annoying certain folk and also she’s just releasing stuff to the bampots and clatterers to increase the pressure a little because she knows the MSM won’t touch it with a bargepole.

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ecobhoyPosted on6:00 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Rangers International FC Plc

52.00p
-2.00p (-3.70%)
Jun 6 – Close

A 2p drop on the day which follows a 2.5p drop yesterday. Yesterday’s 54.00p was lowest since flotation on 19 December 2012 and today’s another record low for the new company.

Obviously things happening in the City beyond the ken of us mere mortals. I wonder if there is concern about how many other backdated share deals have yet to be disclosed or perhaps it’s the egm extended deadline for tomorrow wondering what’s going to happen if MM isn’t axed by WS.

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bogsdolloxPosted on6:20 pm - Jun 6, 2013


ecobhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 18:00
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Given the LBC and other shenanighans I’m surprised the share price has held up so well. This can only be because of the lack of liquidity in the shares.

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Jake CantonaPosted on6:37 pm - Jun 6, 2013


jimlarkin says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 16:20

http://i.imgur.com/uhbt0RW.jpg

what is the significance of this document?
———–

Given that the FTT judgement was ‘redacted’ might this serve as a shot across the bows to anyone who benefitted from anonymity?

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easyJamboPosted on6:55 pm - Jun 6, 2013


ecobhoy says: Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 18:00
———————————–
I don’t know which share site you use, but a couple that I use show the mid price unchanged at 54p, although the bid/ask range is 52p – 56p.

The last trade was certainly at 52p so it may be that the site you use for reference uses the last trade of the day to reflect any movements.

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ecobhoyPosted on6:57 pm - Jun 6, 2013


bogsdollox says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 18:20

ecobhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 18:00
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Given the LBC and other shenanighans I’m surprised the share price has held up so well. This can only be because of the lack of liquidity in the shares.

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enough is enoughPosted on7:07 pm - Jun 6, 2013


From T’Gers season ticket Terms and Conditions:

7. Rangers Football Club reserves the right to refuse entry to the Stadium where the season ticket holder has an outstanding
debt to the Club.

They don’t do irony do they?

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AuldheidPosted on7:17 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Jerfeelgood 17.19.

My experience of asking UEFA questions as a supporter ( two recorded deliveries on same matter unanswered) is that you will be lucky to get a reply to your e mail.
There are four questions with their media department sent by an accredited journalist on Article 12 that have not been answered to my knowledge a week later.
However this should not deter anyone asking questions in relation to the interpretation of longstanding rules particularly where the reason for asking is the interpretations coming or clarification not coming from the SFA that appear to create consequent anomalies that UEFA had not foreseen when they embarked on their ” it is up to national associations how they go about the interpretation of our rules” policy ( as espoused to Alex Thomson) .

The more questions that are asked, even if on the same matter, the more likely UEFA are to finally step in and clarify their position.

They will protect national associations as far as they can up to the point such protection damages UEFA, but they need to know the something that is rotten in the state of Scottish football might infect them. Questionning e mails/letters on matters of substance such as yours may have that that effect eventually.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on7:23 pm - Jun 6, 2013


enoughx2 says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 19:07

From T’Gers season ticket Terms and Conditions:

7. Rangers Football Club reserves the right to refuse entry to the Stadium where the season ticket holder has an outstanding
debt to the Club.

They don’t do irony do they?
=========================

Well spotted that man !

And could that mean that the RIFC Chairman may be denied access to iBrox, due to his alleged, outstanding EBT payments ‘to the club’…? 🙄

Obviously someone at the Govan club has a sense of humour to insert that clause…or maybe not.

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bogsdolloxPosted on7:36 pm - Jun 6, 2013


The EBT payments are not due to the club. They are due to Big Wattie’s sub trust set up by the MIH EBT

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on7:36 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Meanwhile back at Dens park:

The three Dundee directors have been told they cant legally withdraw their resignations

They need to be voted back on the board.

But to be voted on needs two of current three directors to vote.

With one director resigning today and one that can’t attend the board meeting, the vote won’t happen tonight.

DFCSS are really starting to do my head in!

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AuldheidPosted on7:36 pm - Jun 6, 2013


On Rangers wage bill and wages of signing targets there has to be a bank account somewhere on which wages are drawn.
As there is no credit line there has to be money in that account.
It should be a simple matter for the SFA, using the financial information The Rangers were required to supply for next season’s licence to be granted, as well as the details of player contracts lodged, to work out if there is any possibility of the money supply running out before next season ends.
If there is an yet unidentified source of funding to cover any gap surely SFA have to satisfy themselves as to the source of that funding to ensure that the SFA are not risking charges of supporting criminal activity.
I am not suggesting anything of that kind, just that the SFA have a corporate responsibility to themselves not to be associated with that kind of activity.
Such an assurance would also go a long way to promoting SB sales and it is a mattter of minor puzzlement that The Rangers supporters are not seeking this kind of assurance from SFA before spending their dosh but rely instead on msm exhortations to trust Walter Smith.

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jonnyodPosted on7:39 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Just saw a CF tit bit regards two returning sevco wage earners ,
If it is to be believed then between the two of them they would be taking the equivalent of aprox 8,000 full priced STs out of the sevco coffers ,add this to the FPLG and his backroom staff and it takes one almighty chunk of their main income stream .
I think CF showed a doc were the income from last season was 9.5m if that is right then does this not mean that the above alone is taking nearly the 33% of the wages strategy of Mr Green in the IPO

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scottc

scottcPosted on7:42 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Regarding Derry City. They are not barred from playing in Europe. Indeed they will be taking part in the Europa league next season. The link to the BBC story that was posted the other day related to last year when they were not permitted to take their lace in spite of being in a qualifying spot

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ecobhoyPosted on7:43 pm - Jun 6, 2013


easyJambo says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 18:55

ecobhoy says: Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 18:00
———————————–
I don’t know which share site you use, but a couple that I use show the mid price unchanged at 54p, although the bid/ask range is 52p – 56p.

The last trade was certainly at 52p so it may be that the site you use for reference uses the last trade of the day to reflect any movements.
===============================================================

EJ – I use google finance which shows the daily closing trades for companies I have an interest in. It also, for me, makes reading the graph easier because I’m nearly always using the same site although I also look at AIM because of the company bar chart facility showing monthly/daily trade values and volumes.

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easyJamboPosted on7:56 pm - Jun 6, 2013


ecobhoy says: Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 19:43
—————————————
the two I generally use are London Stock Exchange

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/summary/company-summary.html?fourWayKey=GB00B90T9Z75GBGBXASQ1

and Interactive Investor

http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/detail?code=cotn:RFC.L

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arabest1Posted on7:57 pm - Jun 6, 2013


borussiabeefburg says:

🙂 🙂

Enemies continued;

Falkirk Stadium Announcer

Ecobhoy

Gateshead

Joanna Lumley

Uncle Tom Cobley

Bill Millar

St Thomas Aquinas

Wolf Tone

Turnbull Hutton

Innocent III

Bill Ng

HMRC

Steven Naismith

Rod Stewart

Peter Kearney

Kevin Bridges

Jeff Bridges

Jackie MacNamara

Sir Alex Ferguson

Michel Platini

The Seekers

Steve Davis

Raith Rovers

Hugh Keevins

The New Seekers

Ian Bell

Liberty Bell

The New New Seekers

Strawbs……………

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tonto8on8his8high8horsePosted on7:59 pm - Jun 6, 2013


I see the BBC story about the Bauban and Gomis speculation has touched a nerve with Jim Traynor.

Oh excuse me I mean “Rangers football club” 🙂

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/4105-no-interest-in-midfield-pair?

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HirsutePursuitPosted on8:05 pm - Jun 6, 2013


scottc says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 19:42
0 1 Rate This
Regarding Derry City. They are not barred from playing in Europe. Indeed they will be taking part in the Europa league next season. The link to the BBC story that was posted the other day related to last year when they were not permitted to take their lace in spite of being in a qualifying spot
===================================================
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/derry-denied-entry-to-europa-league-by-uefa

Derry City chairman Philip O’Doherty said of the decision, which was confirmed shortly before lunchtime on Tuesday:

“Because the new club has only been in existence for two years – not three years – we had to apply for a derogation of the rule.

“We paid a lot of football debts that were nothing to do with us, from the previous club, but apparently we’re not going to be accepted.”

The chairman of “the new club” recognises the reality. No European football for Derry City until 2014/15 – because they are a new club.

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jonnyodPosted on8:17 pm - Jun 6, 2013


HP
We paid a lot of football debts that were nothing to do with us from oldco CG .
sound familiar

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twopandaPosted on8:28 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Evident it`s not in control on multiple aspects re: paralysis internally and externally. Lack of honesty v prevalent.

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on8:28 pm - Jun 6, 2013


jonnyod says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 20:17

HP
We paid a lot of football debts that were nothing to do with us from oldco CG .
sound familiar
————————

Dundee only paid off all their football debts in feb this year, price of maintaining a football team.

Grab yourself a beach towel and dry your eyes 😉

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scottc

scottcPosted on8:29 pm - Jun 6, 2013


HirsutePursuit says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 20:05
5 2 Rate This
scottc says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 19:42
0 1 Rate This
Regarding Derry City. They are not barred from playing in Europe. Indeed they will be taking part in the Europa league next season. The link to the BBC story that was posted the other day related to last year when they were not permitted to take their lace in spite of being in a qualifying spot
===================================================
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/derry-denied-entry-to-europa-league-by-uefa

Derry City chairman Philip O’Doherty said of the decision, which was confirmed shortly before lunchtime on Tuesday:
“Because the new club has only been in existence for two years – not three years – we had to apply for a derogation of the rule.
“We paid a lot of football debts that were nothing to do with us, from the previous club, but apparently we’re not going to be accepted.”
The chairman of “the new club” recognises the reality. No European football for Derry City until 2014/15 – because they are a new club.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I stand corrected HP. They are giving away a pair of tickets to their Europa league tie on their website. I guess they will have to retract that. 🙂

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scottc

scottcPosted on8:35 pm - Jun 6, 2013


You might see how I could be confused as the two stories are all but identical but dated one year apart

dated June 4 2013
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/derry-denied-entry-to-europa-league-by-uefa

“DERRY City have been banned from entering next season’s Europa League competition following a Uefa ruling.

The administrative body for European club football took the decision because the club went into liquidation a little more than two years ago, before being re-formed.
…”

dated 21 February 2012
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17116759

“Derry City have been refused entry into next season’s Europa League competition by Uefa.
The European football governing body has taken the decision because the club went into liquidation just over two years ago.
…”

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jimlarkinPosted on8:52 pm - Jun 6, 2013


enoughx2 says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 19:07

From T’Gers season ticket Terms and Conditions:

7. Rangers Football Club reserves the right to refuse entry to the Stadium where the season ticket holder has an outstanding debt
to the Club.

They don’t do irony do they?

————————————————————————-

the season ticket holder could claim that the debt is not owed to “the club”
but owed to the company which owns the company that owns the club ??!!

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on8:56 pm - Jun 6, 2013


How much per week were ton two heroes on? Could not make it out on this screen

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scottc

scottcPosted on9:00 pm - Jun 6, 2013


ianagain says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 20:56
0 0 Rate This
How much per week were ton two heroes on? Could not make it out on this screen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ian, it was £86,666 per month and £83,000 per month, so £2m per annum

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easyJamboPosted on9:01 pm - Jun 6, 2013


ianagain says: Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 20:56

How much per week were ton two heroes on? Could not make it out on this screen
——————————————
Goian exactly £20K a week with Bocanegra slightly less (contract may have specified a US $ figure).

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on9:03 pm - Jun 6, 2013


scottc says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 21:00

ianagain says:
How much per week were ton two heroes on? Could not make it out on this screen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ian, it was £86,666 per month and £83,000 per month, so £2m per annum

———————————

For an SPL team!!!!

No wonder they were losing money hand over fist.

Bonkers.

They haven’t learnt either, hell mend them.

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scottc

scottcPosted on9:18 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Forres Dee (@ForresDee) says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 21:03

For an SPL team!!!!

No wonder they were losing money hand over fist.

Bonkers.

They haven’t learnt either, hell mend them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I imagine that one of these guys wages would cover the running costs for several of the other teams in SFL2. I remember (quite) a few years ago Forfar played Rangers and were to make around £100,000 from the televised encounter. This money covered the teams costs for way more the year plus. If you think that QOS won that division on £300k in wages last year. Well …

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