The Existence of Laws

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The Existence of Laws

A Blog by James Forrest for TSFM

I am a socialist, and as a socialist I believe in the fundamental goodness of people. Some people find that hard to believe when they read the stuff I write.

I published my first novel recently, on politics and the corrupting nature of it, and it is a deeply cynical book, a book where no-one has clean hands come the end. What has surprised some of those who’ve read it is that I didn’t focus on the lies and smears of the right, but the hypocrisy and deceit of those who claim to be of the left.

Corruption, you see, doesn’t respect political boundaries or points of view. It’s like rainwater. It finds every crack, and gets in there.

My political beliefs revolve around two apparently paradoxical elements; the belief in the inherent decency of people and the need for a strong, and powerful, state. I believe the second underpins the first, and this brings me into conflict with a lot of people, some on the left and some on the right. Too many people see the state as inherently evil, as something that interferes too much in the lives of ordinary people. As something suffocating.

Yet the state exists to protect us. It exists to provide a safety net. It exists to regulate and to oversee. If the state is made up of bad people, if the gears of society are captured by those with malicious or selfish intent, the results are obvious; war, corruption, chaos.

The vast majority of our problems in the modern age can be neatly summed up in two lines from Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming”, which I used to open my novel. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”

We live in a time when those who are protecting their own interests have assumed such power that they’ve cowed the rest of us. They have become a law unto themselves. They have changed the nature of the game, because they have sapped our will to the extent some barely put up a fight anymore. The weak get weaker, and the strong use their strength to crush the rest even more. It is a vicious struggle, a downward spiral.

Society is held together not only by the endeavour and common interests of its citizens but by a collection of laws. We elect the people who make those laws. They do so in our name, and we can remove that right every four years. That is a powerful thing, and we do not appreciate it enough. The present corruption exists because we allow it to exist.

The people around me continue to puzzle over my uncommon interest in the affairs of a football club on the west of Glasgow. My own club plays in the east end. I tell those who ask that my primary interest in the goings-on at the club calling itself Rangers is no longer about football; how could it be, after all? With promotion this year they are still a full two divisions below us, emasculated, skint, weak and unstable. If we were fortunate enough to draw them in cup competition the match would be over, as a tie, by the halfway point … in the first half.

In footballing terms they are an utter irrelevance.

Rangers is more than a football club to me. They are a symbol. Their unfolding calamity is an on-going outrage. What is happening there, what is being allowed to happen, is an offense to decency. It is a stain on the face of our country.

In short, it is a scandal. It is a scandal without parallel in sport.

Yet it’s not just a sports story either. If it was, I might not be so focussed on it. What is happening at Rangers is a colossal failure of governance. It is a damning indictment against the very people who are supposed to oversee our game. It is a disgraceful abrogation of responsibility from those at the top, those who claim to be “running things.”

If this is not a failure of governance it is a result of corruption at the heart of our national sport. It says they are bought and paid for, and I will say no such thing here.

So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. We’ll say instead that what they are is weak, indecisive, inept and disconnected from reality.

It reminds me of our political class, which has become insular and ignorant about what the public wants, and what it needs. It’s not a wonder parties like UKIP can achieve national vote shares of 25% at local elections. Nigel Farage strikes me as a dog-whistle politician, the kind who knows how to appeal to a select group of voters. He is little different to Charles Green, the man who beguiled Rangers fans into handing over large amounts of money, because he was “standing up for the club.” It is easy to do what he did, easy to do what Farage is doing.

Real leadership requires toughness. Say what you like about the Tories, but they have that in spades. Yeats was right about the worst being full of passionate intensity. Green was. Farage is. Cameron and Osborne personify it in their political outlook.

It is easy to be cowed by blunt force politics, and by “tough talking Yorkshire men” and venomous speeches about “strivers and skivers.” The politics of divide and conquer is the oldest form of politics there is, and it’s no surprise to see it practiced by some of the vested interests in the game here in Scotland. Yet, lest we forget … something significant happened last year. The maligned and the ignored, the weak and the voiceless found something they never realised they had. They discovered that, in a very real sense, the power was in their hands.

Last year, the fans rose up when the governing bodies and the media went all-out to save Rangers from the self-inflicted wounds caused by a decade of cheating, malpractice and ineptitude. I have no problem calling that what it was.

What happened at Rangers seemed incredible, but it was all too predictable, and some of us had been talking about it for years before it hit. The Association seemed caught in the headlights but it would amaze me if they really were as insular and ignorant as they appeared. They must have known how bad the outlook was for Rangers. They just chose to ignore it.

They were aided and abetted by a thoroughly disreputable media, a collection of cowards and compromisers, charlatans and frauds, masquerading as journalists, but who long ago laid aside any claim to be bold investigators and settled for commenting on events as they unfolded. More often than not, with their ill-informed opinions, sometimes due to weaknesses in intellect and others wilfully ignorant, they failed even in that.

Entire newspapers became PR machines for crooks and swindlers. They aided in the scam because they didn’t do their jobs, some because they were lazy, some because they were incompetent and others because they wanted a seat at the table and were willing to sacrifice whatever integrity they once had in exchange for one.

That all of this was embraced by the Rangers fans is amazing to me. They trusted when they should have been asking questions. They closed their eyes, covered their ears and sang their battle tunes at the top of their voices so they wouldn’t have to hear anything they didn’t like. As incredible as I found it then, and still find it now – and now, even more so, when they have already seen the results of it once – I find it pathetic too, and I do feel pity for some of them.

A lot of these people are genuine football fans, and nothing more. They have no interest in the phony narrow nationalism, or the over-blown religion, or the notion of supremacy which manifested itself in a ludicrous statement from McCoist when interviewed recently on Sky.

Some of the Rangers fans look at their team of duds, kids and journeymen, they look at a boardroom of cowards and crooks, they look at a failing manager in his first (and last) job in the game and at a dark future and are not in the least bit impressed by, or interested in, the chest-out arrogance espoused in those ridiculous words “we are the people.” They know full well that their present crisis was made by men like McCoist, and they understand that pretentious posturing is not an act born of strength, but a scrambling around in the gutter, and a symptom of weakness.

They understand their position, and they hate it. And because they care about Rangers, because they value the club, because they cherish those things that made it a great Scottish institution, they want that back. They understand that before the Union Jack waving, Sash singing, poppy wearing, Nazi saluting, Orange element became the public face of their support Rangers meant something else, and that, above all things, is what pains them the most.

People do not hate Rangers. When the country appeared to turn its back last year, they were turning the back on favouritism and the bending of rules. Yet it would be a lie to say that there is not an element of dislike in the gleeful mockery of many rival fans.

But they don’t hate Rangers either. They hate the version of it around which a certain section of the support continues to dance. They hate the version which hates, and so too do many, many, many Rangers supporters, and they definitely deserve better.

David Murray chose not to openly challenge that version. Indeed, he encouraged certain strands of it to flourish and grow, with his “Britishness Days” and his effort to turn the club into the “team that supports the troops.” Other clubs have done as much, if not more, for the British Army than the one that plays out of Ibrox. Other clubs have given more money. Other clubs have lent their support to those on the front lines. They just chose to do it with respect, and with class, and with dignity. They chose to do it in private, understanding that there eventually comes a tipping point between looking after the ends of the soldiers and using them to promote your own.

The army has not battened on to Rangers. Rangers has battened on to them, and although it is unclear when an altruistic motive became darker, what started out as a gesture of solidarity is now used to entrench division and promote a notion of superiority.

Craig Whyte took over from Murray and immediately understood the lure of the “dog whistle.” He knew too that the media would accept whatever he told them, without question, and as he spoke up for “Rangers traditions” he made sure the lunatic fringe was well onside. He met face to face with the hard-core extremists in the support first and made them his praetorian guard. They spoke up for him until the day the club entered administration.

So, whereas Murray pandered to them and Whyte used them to further his own ends, it was only a matter of time before someone suggested to Charles Green that he could use the same tactics to win over the support. He went even further and blatantly promoted and encouraged this mind-set, and stoked the hate and nonsense to frightening new heights. The same people who cheered Whyte to the rafters jumped on board the Big Blue Bus and the results are clear.

Through all of it, the ordinary Rangers fan has seen his club buffered against the rocks, battered, broken, smashed to smithereens and sunk. Now there’s a big hole in the side of the lifeboat, and they are terrified that further tragedies await.

They are right to be concerned. Much of the media is still not telling them what they need to know. The people in charge of their club – the owners who have lied, the former hack who covered up the truth about Whyte and now acts as a mouthpiece for Green, the “club legends” who are content to sup with the devil and take his greasy coin when they should be standing toe-to-toe with the fans – are trying to silence those members of the press who do have facts to present.

How many times now have media outlets been banned from Ibrox for daring to report the truth? The manager who demanded the names of a committee last year defends those inside the walls who are desperate to keep secret the things that are going on. He is either an unprincipled coward, or he is, himself, bought and paid for. The fans suffer for it.

The “inconvenient truth” is still being kept from them, and this denies them any chance to play an active role in their club. Indeed, it is all too possible that they’ve passed a point of no return, and that their club is heading for a new liquidation event and it can no longer be stopped.

In either case, their power has been eroded to the point at which they must feel they have nothing left to do but stand back and watch what happens next.

They are wrong. I am a socialist. I believe in the inherent good of people. I think the ordinary decent Rangers fans are the only people left who can save their club … and the means by which they will do it is as simple as it could be.

They must stand up for “big government.” They must embrace the need for a “strong state.” They must lobby the SFA, and they must trust the SFA and they must get the SFA to follow its own rules and thereby save them from any further harm.

There is a tendency amongst some Celtic fans to see our governing bodies as pro-Rangers. If it is true then those running our game are ruining Scottish football without benefiting the thing they love more. The incalculable harm that has been done to Rangers in the last 20 some months is a direct result of the subservient media and the willingness of the football authorities to be “deaf, dumb and blind.” Those who believe this has actually helped the Ibrox club have not been paying attention in class. It has irrevocably scarred them, and it may yet have played a hand in destroying them once and for all, as a force if not as a club entirely.

For years, the SFA sat and did nothing as a club in their association operated a sectarian signing policy. They did nothing whilst the fans sang sectarian songs. In their failure to act they strengthened those elements of the Rangers support, instead of isolating, alienating and eventually helping to eliminate those who saw that club as a totem pole of division and hate. Their failure over EBT’s, and their lack of scrutiny, led to one of the greatest scandals in the history of sport, and I say that with no equivocation at all. The testimony of their registrations officer in the Lord Nimmo Smith investigation was a disgrace and in years to come it will rank as one of the most disreputable and damaging moments in the association’s history.

The most egregious failures of all were the failures in the so-called “fit and proper person” tests, which allowed first Whyte and then Charles Green to assume controlling positions at Ibrox. They will pass the buck and say the responsibility lies with the club itself, in much the same way as they are content to let the club investigate itself at the present time, but any neutral who looks at this stance knows it is unprincipled and spineless. It’s like letting the defence set the terms at a trial. It is foxes investigating the chicken coop.

It is a blueprint for corruption, and a recipe for disaster.

It is now too late for the SFA to declare Green “unfit”, as it was too late when they finally slapped that title on Craig Whyte. He and his allies own Rangers, and they control its destiny. They can push the club to the wall if they choose, in the final extremity, if that gets them what they want. The time for changing that is past. The damage has already been done. The barbarians are not at the gates. They are inside the walls, and sacking the city.

The SFA will be forced to punish Rangers for the sins of the owners, for the second time in as many years, and whilst it is right that the club face up to that, all the better to send a message to other clubs and other owners, the SFA cannot be allowed to slither off the hook here as though this was none of their doing. Green will skip off into the sunset. Craig Whyte has yet to pay his fine. These people never cared about Scottish football and they don’t care now.

The SFA are supposed to. Our governing body is supposed to govern, for the good of the whole game, and not as a support system for a single club. What they have allowed to happen on their watch is absolutely shameful and if the people responsible were men at all, with any sense of accountability, they would resign en masse.

They can pretend ignorance, but only the truly ignorant would accept that. Craig Whyte was not inside Ibrox a week before RTC and other sites were dismantling his entire business history, with some of the people here doing the work the SFA would not. Whyte himself claims to have made the governing bodies aware of the scale of what was facing the club, and they did nothing at all. Heads should have rolled a year ago.

In October of last year, on this very site, I posted an article in which I wrote:

“Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.

To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.”

There are times when it is fun to be right, but this is not one of them. It is dispiriting and disquieting to have been so on the nose. It scares the Hell out of me, as someone who loves football in this country, to have seen this matter clearly when the people running our game apparently either did not or chose to ignore very real, very obvious, concerns. The Internet Bampots had no special insight or access to information that was denied those at the SFA. We just weren’t prepared to ignore it and pretend that it wasn’t there. There was too much at stake.

I have become convinced that things will never change until the Rangers supporters join us in demanding the full and unabridged truth here. They need to come out from under the bed, and confront their fears. They need to be willing to take the consequences, so that their club can emerge clean from this, and start again, with all this behind them.

And it can all happen with one simple thing. The application of the rules.

The existence of laws comes down to a simple principle; they protect society from those elements within it who are interested only in their own selfish ends. We may cry out at those rules and regulations we see as “restrictive”, but the law was not made to restrict our freedoms but to protect them. Had the SFA years ago acted against Rangers sectarian signing policy, and the songs from the stands, the club would not have mutated to the point where there was no help on hand when they needed it the most. Let’s not kid ourselves about this; Whyte and Green were only able to grab control because the club itself has a dreadful image which put off respectable and responsible buyers. The SFA could have helped change that perception years ago and did nothing.

The SFA could have conducted its own investigation into who Craig Whyte was. They could have asked David Murray for full disclosure when he was running up £80 million of debt, a sum of money that is beyond belief for a single club in a small provincial backwater league. Had they had the guts to do that the club would never have spent itself into oblivion and forced the hand of Lloyds, which led indirectly to their ignominious end.

The SFA could have fully investigated Charles Green and the means by which he took control, instead of rushing through a license. His emergence at the last minute was transparently suspicious and designed to force them into a quick decision, but they did not have to bow to that pressure by making one, without being in possession of the facts, as it is now 100% clear they were not.

Had they asked for every document, had they insisted on legal affidavits and personal securities from investors (and this would have been perfectly legitimate and is common place in other licensing areas) none of this would have come to pass. After Craig Whyte they had a moral responsibility to the rest of the game to get this one right and their failure is without parallel in the history of Scottish football.

As the club hurtles towards a new abyss, names are cropping up which should send a shudder down the spines of every honest, genuine supporter of not only Rangers but every team in the land. The SFA claims that a strong Rangers is essential for the sake of Scottish football, but they have been extraordinarily lax in protecting that club, and therefore the game, from destructive elements. Craig Whyte and Charles Green had dubious personal histories, and the acquisition of the club itself was mired in controversy and scandal. Yet it was allowed.

Neither Green nor Whyte were known to have operated outside the law, yet neither was worthy of trust or stood up to scrutiny. Neither man should ever have been granted the status as fit and proper persons to assume a role in our national sport, and if it is true of them what can we say about the three men who are, presently, being touted as the Great White Hopes for a bright, new Rangers future; Dave King and the Easdale brothers?

King recently cut a deal with the South African government over an on-going dispute over taxes. In other words, he pled guilty and accepted the central plank of their argument; that for years he was engaged in wilfully with-holding vast revenues from their Treasury. The media does not like to put it like that, and the SFA seems willing to ignore it utterly, and this would be scandalous enough. But it does not stop there. HRMC rules – as well as the SFA’s own governance documents – actually bar him from serving on the board of the new club.

Last but not least, aside from being an admitted tax cheat, King is also awaiting trial in South Africa, having been indicted for corruption, forgery and fraud – 300 charges in total. Yet as recently as last week, we were told that the Association was willing to look at him and consider representations from his lawyers. This is almost beyond belief.

If Dave King’s position is untenable, and he is yet to be convicted of a crime, what can we say about the position of the Easdale’s? One of the two brothers, Sandy, has already served jail time. He is a convicted criminal, a fraudster nonetheless, who’s “victim” was the same Treasury who are appealing one case involving the old club and liquidated it entirely over another. This is precisely the kind of “businessman” the fit and proper person test was supposed to weed out, and if the SFA holds its nose here the reek will stink out the halls at Hampden for decades. If King or the Easdale’s are judged fit and proper, then who exactly is the test for? What exactly do you have to do to fail it? How do we explain the existence of laws, when these are not applied?

Pascal says “Law without force is impotent.” The SFA’s weakness has allowed one version of Rangers to destroy itself, and has allowed an existential risk to another. If the next power at Rangers resides in South Africa or Greenock I can say with some certainty that the Association is engaged in an even more dangerous roll of the dice, because the surfacing of fresh scandal will be an ever present risk, and will be of the sort no-one will survive.

The damage to Scottish football will take years to heal. The Scottish game has been through enough trauma. It does not need more. It barely survived the last calamity to hit Rangers. The rest of us should not be forced to pay the price of the next one.

The greater damage will be done to Rangers itself. If the Green crisis ends in another collapse – as it well might; another administration event is a certainty, and another liquidation is a much more likely prospect than it was before 14 February 2012 – the club will once again have to start from the bottom, and this time the reputational damage will be impossible to repair. The club faces internal strife, sporting sanctions, and criminal investigations. The last takeover might be declared a fraud. the Whyte takeover will almost certainly be. The share issue might be invalid, as well as criminal, and the people involved may well end up in jail. Lawsuits could follow from investors, there could be as yet unknown consequences from the Upper Tier Tax Tribunal (thank you Brogan Rogan for pointing out what those might be) and a host of other issues.

Rangers fans must be the loudest voices here. How do you want the world to view your club in years to come? Do you want one to be proud of, or one forever associated with the shame and disgrace of these days gone by? The one which bailed out on its tax obligations. The one with supporters who disgrace your very name. The one which allowed Whyte and Green to take you to the cleaners and send you to the wall. The one which handed over control to one convicted criminal and another awaiting trial. Do you want to be reborn clean, or mired in the muck?

David Murray destroyed your financial stability. He made it so no bank would issue you a line of credit and no investor of note wanted to buy. Craig Whyte liquidated you. Charles Green has cast the future of the Newco into doubt and acted in a manner which has annihilated your credibility with the financial markets for decades to come.

Between these three men, they have taken everything from you, and the press and the people who run the game here, as well as some of your own blindly ignorant fans, have allowed them to do all this and more. Now they conspire to hand the keys to Ibrox to other men of questionable character, who will wreck further havoc on the reputation of the club.

The Scottish Football Association has damaged the game it was supposed to protect, but above all else their greatest failure of governance was a failure to protect one of its biggest clubs from its own excesses and those of its owners.

Rangers fans, the SFA have betrayed your trust, more than the trust of any other club. What you must insist on now is full disclosure and transparency from the powers that be in Hampden. The SFA has to end the charade of allowing your club to handle this in-house. They must hand everything over to an outside agency – whether a legal one, or a footballing body like UEFA – and they must demand co-operation and answers, and threaten to withhold the license if they don’t get them.

You must not be afraid of that. You must embrace it. The men with their hands on the gears at Ibrox are motivated by money, and nothing more. If the license is withdrawn their “investments” are worthless. They cannot risk that.

You must demand that the rules on fit and proper persons are applied, and where necessary even made stronger, to prevent your club falling into unclean hands. You must demand that they protect your reputation from further damage, by getting this all out there and acting accordingly, even if that means your club does not play football for at least a year.

You must be willing to suck it all up, knowing that what will emerge is a Rangers which has been cleansed and moves forward with honour, and dignity, led by custodians who treasure it rather than those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

The Rangers Standard has recently emerged as a genuine voice for those in your support who are sick and tired of what Rangers has become, and want it restored to something that is worthy of the love and respect in which you hold it. On that website, there are discussions about the kind of club you seek to be and about whether the institution of Rangers is about more than just football.

If that’s how you feel about it then you know it is about more than how many titles the club can claim, about more than just results on the park, about more than just the game. Rangers, like Celtic, is an idea. It has to be something you are proud of.

I am a socialist, but one with a fevered imagination and a tendency to write very dark things. This piece won’t have been good reading for some of you (perhaps all of you haha!) but I think there’s more hope in here than in other things I’ve written.

In spite of everything that’s come to pass, I still believe. I believe in Scottish football. I believe in our system of football governance, even if those who are working in it are failing on some level.

In society, as much as we strain against them, laws exist for our protection. To fail to enforce them is to leave us at the mercy of those elements who would do us harm. The rules of football ensure the protection of all clubs, not just a few.

The failure to enforce the rules has never had graver consequences than here in Scotland.  The irony is that bending and breaking them has hurt the one club those violations were designed to help. It cannot be allowed to happen again.

The rules must be applied without fear or favour.

The best must find their conviction, and their passionate intensity once more.

James is a co-editor of the On Fields of Green Blog http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/

About the author

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Trisidium administrator

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

5,802 Comments so far

scottc

scottcPosted on9:23 pm - Jun 6, 2013


I normally don;t pay much attention to the TU/TD count but I am laughing here because ianagain just got a TD for having too small a phone screen apparently

ianagain says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 20:56
0 1 Rate This

How much per week were ton two heroes on? Could not make it out on this screen

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No doubt I’ll get one for taking the p!ss out of the TD’er.

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phill450Posted on9:23 pm - Jun 6, 2013


scottc

“Ian, it was £86,666 per month and £83,000 per month, so £2m per annum”

I think there would also be employers NIC on top of that, about 13.8% or £276,000 p.a.
(almost another 1,000 season tickets?)

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scottc

scottcPosted on9:33 pm - Jun 6, 2013


phill4500 says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 21:23
0 0 Rate This
scottc

“Ian, it was £86,666 per month and £83,000 per month, so £2m per annum”

I think there would also be employers NIC on top of that, about 13.8% or £276,000 p.a.
(almost another 1,000 season tickets?)

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A very good point

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briggsbhoyPosted on9:37 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Scottc

I just gave you a TD for badness 🙂

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mickleenPosted on9:38 pm - Jun 6, 2013


I normally don;t pay much attention to the TU/TD count but I am laughing here because ianagain just got a TD for having too small a phone screen apparently

ianagain says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 20:56
0 1 Rate This

How much per week were ton two heroes on? Could not make it out on this screen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No doubt I’ll get one for taking the p!ss out of the TD’er.

I gave you 2? for the same reason dogs lick their b**ls. Really who cares?

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AuldheidPosted on9:41 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Scottc 19.42

The old Derry City went into liquidation in 2009.

The new Derry City began life as a member of their national association in 2010. Having operated as a new member in 2010, 2011 and 2012 they become free of the 3 year requirement this year and can play in the forthcoming competition.
Last year they were still bound by the 3 year rule of Article12 and were not allowed to play in the 2012/13 competition. Indeed they applied for derogation to UEFA as is allowed in the rules if the national association make a well founded case which UEFA then accept.The fact that UEFA refused tells you something about their attitude to clubs who become insolvent through poor financial management.
In addition given that UEFA make unpaid tax a specific reason for exclusion on an annual basis it is difficult to imagine the SFA even making a case to UEFA for a club that used tax payers money to delay insolvency rather than cut back on spending. But even if the SFA did ask UEFA based on the Derry precedent UEFA would refuse.
Thus The Rangers fall into the same category as Derry and in UEFAs eyes have lost the history as a result of liquidation that would allow them to escape Article12 of UEFA FFP.

Only UEFA can decide, if a case is presented, whether they are willing to set aside the 3 year history as a member of a national association requirement. Until such a case is made The Rangers history began in 2012 for UEFA purposes and remains so unless UEFA decide different before 2015 when the 3 years wait has elapsed therebye pening up possibility of participation in 2016.

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mickleenPosted on9:41 pm - Jun 6, 2013


briggsbhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 21:37

0

0

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Scottc

I just gave you a TD for badness 🙂
______________________________________________________

OK .thought i had two (opposable) thumbs there for a minute.

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essexbeancounterPosted on9:54 pm - Jun 6, 2013


phill4500 says:

Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 21:23

scottc

“Ian, it was £86,666 per month and £83,000 per month, so £2m per annum”

I think there would also be employers NIC on top of that, about 13.8% or £276,000 p.a.
(almost another 1,000 season tickets?)

=====================================================================

Phill4500…you got a resounding “TD” for being factually accurate…!

Will that “enematic” TD’er child please go to bed…and stay there…FFS!

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FIFAPosted on9:55 pm - Jun 6, 2013


I am a bit puzzled ,if anyone can help,the team from the east of Glasgow is now advertising a general sale of season books,I asked at the watering hole I slaber in the city center and the barman to my question replied he was quiet satisfied with his money back offer [£100] on renewal of his ticket,he did not elaborate on what he paid but if I go to their site it will not be too hard to work out,I have read the Glasgow Evening times tonight and Mathew Lindsay has an exclusive,his words ,Rangers fans will snap up season tickets for next season in vast numbers-thanks to the Walter Smith factor,now I also think that interim figures if not more are about to be released from the east end club and could help the sale ,sorry general sale ,of season tickets,back to my puzzlement ,are there any trading figures that the club from Govan might be about to release that would help sell season books apart from an interim CEO that is so far out of his depth in the barrel of rotten apples that his hordes know he is a bad apple ,but not rotten,word of warning ,a bad apple does not get better that would justify the purchase of said tickets ,I note a referal to the dog whistler is mentioned ,in a letter to the hordes ,why not the public whistle that he was so happy to put his lips to last term,Hmmm,and Watty please give your
stamp to the sale ,if it goes pear shaped the bears will forgive and forget,trust me.

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essexbeancounterPosted on9:56 pm - Jun 6, 2013


briggsbhoy says:

Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 21:37

Scottc

I just gave you a TD for badness
============================================
Briggsbhoy…you deserve at least one night, all alone, in the Crow Tavern…just for your badness!

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FIFAPosted on10:19 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Briggsbhoy
And to eat some of the chef’s macaroni,superb.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:30 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Has anyone any info on TRFCs pre season matches?
I seem to remember Ally saying they’d be heading for the USA and Germany but I can’t find any mention of any fixtures anywhere,
These pre season tours would cost a fair sum.
I think they’re cancelled(if they were ever booked in the first place).

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on10:33 pm - Jun 6, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 22:30
0 0 Rate This
Has anyone any info on TRFCs pre season matches?
I seem to remember Ally saying they’d be heading for the USA and Germany but I can’t find any mention of any fixtures anywhere,
These pre season tours would cost a fair sum.
I think they’re cancelled(if they were ever booked in the first place).

————————————–

apparently all fans should follow rangers own media output to get the most up to date and accurate information…….hahahaha, Gym Trainer fair spat the dummy tonight, what a petulant arse!

About time the BBC reacted to Spivco by ignoring any of their press releases.

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NawlitePosted on10:36 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Re the fact of RFC* and indeed Unirea getting additional points in the rankings this year, I seem to recall this being discussed on RTC. I can’t recall the exact reason for this, but IIRC it was along the lines of all clubs already on the list receiving a share of ranking points (pro rata?) based on their country’s performance that year – from memory, there was a club used as an example who, having been on the list, did not qualify in a particular year, but still saw an increase. As I say, I can’t recall the specifics (perhaps someone else will), but it is certainly no indication that UEFA see RFC* or Unirea as the same club.

As mentioned above, as RFC won’t gain ranking points of their own for some time, they will drop off the list soon enough.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on10:37 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 22:33

torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 22:30
0 0 Rate This
Has anyone any info on TRFCs pre season matches?
I seem to remember Ally saying they’d be heading for the USA and Germany but I can’t find any mention of any fixtures anywhere,
These pre season tours would cost a fair sum.
I think they’re cancelled(if they were ever booked in the first place).

————————————–

apparently all fans should follow rangers own media output to get the most up to date and accurate information…….hahahaha, Gym Trainer fair spat the dummy tonight, what a petulant arse!

About time the BBC reacted to Spivco by ignoring any of their press releases.
====================================
I can’t find any mention of any pre-season matches on the tRFC website.

They still have John Greig(honorary president) as a trustee of the charity foundation though.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on10:45 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Nokia 3101 actually. Which I could buy 1000 of each week, were I an overpaid Pretendyger.
Go figure!

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on10:49 pm - Jun 6, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 22:37

====================================
I can’t find any mention of any pre-season matches on the tRFC website.

They still have John Greig(honorary president) as a trustee of the charity foundation though.

————————-
i know……thats what makes tonights spat from the flat slug all the funnier!

the club is in the throws of turmoil, shareholders demanding directors are ousted whilst spivs and gangsters are appointed in their place, no details about new strip, sponsorship deals, no preseason games, season ticket renewals not even out yet……but this is all clearly explained to the clubs fans directly from the clubs website – feckin laughable.

they deserve all that is coming their way.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on11:11 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Pretendygers are playing 1of the Sheffield teams per season too much local consternation.

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tobyPosted on11:14 pm - Jun 6, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 22:30
0 0 Rate This
Has anyone any info on TRFCs pre season matches?

They’re up against HMRC – already into the second half, that one.
In an apparent fixture clash they’re due up against Craigy Whyte’s boys, but we dont know who he’s supporting.(apparently the one that’ll give him the most cash !)
To be fair he’s a got a bit of fixture congestion – he might have to ask the SFA for a rescheduled fixture.
TRFC v known enemies – no arranged date as yet – to be confirmed by Craig Mather, on a date and time of their choosing.
Various other fixtures, some legal, some not. Then lot’s of 2nd division fixtures til the money run out. Then some more legal fixtures.

Hope this helps.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:15 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 35s

Duff and Phelps meet Craig Whyte 01 May 2012. Background sounds until approx 6 mins in. Part 1/8 https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/duffandphelps1may2012part01

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on11:15 pm - Jun 6, 2013


To not too (well maybe )

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paulsatimPosted on11:21 pm - Jun 6, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 22:30
0 0 Rate This
Has anyone any info on TRFCs pre season matches?

Probably Linfield!!

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on11:26 pm - Jun 6, 2013


So Craigies contacting the Blue Knights too. Boys pragmatic. Bet that call will be interesting when we hear the next tape

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on11:27 pm - Jun 6, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 23:15
0 0 Rate This
Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 35s

Duff and Phelps meet Craig Whyte 01 May 2012. Background sounds until approx 6 mins in. Part 1/8

——-

She’s right, start listening at around 5:55, you really really don’t miss anything. Apart from half a phone call in which nothing is said or revealed.

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wottpiPosted on11:29 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Is CF going to be providing us with tapes of D&P discussing the runner and riders for the oldco buy out with ‘You are Sevco’ Whyte?

This could be interesting 🙂

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:32 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 8s

Duff and Phelps meet Craig Whyte 01 May 2012. Part 2/8 https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/duffandphelps1may2012part02 … and Part 3/8 https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/duffandphelps1may2012part03

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:33 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 46s

Duff and Phelps meet Craig Whyte 01 May 2012. Part 4/8 https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/duffandphelps1may2012part04 … and Part 5/8 https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/duffandphelps1may2012part05

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:34 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 31s

Duff and Phelps meet Craig Whyte 01 May 2012. Part 6/8 https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/duffandphelps1may2012part06 … and Part 7/8 https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/duffandphelps1may2012part07

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on11:35 pm - Jun 6, 2013


ARGH

can’t get the links to work, anyone else having problems?

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:35 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 59s

Duff and Phelps meet Craig Whyte 01 May 2012. Part 8/8. https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/duffandphelps1may2012part08

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:38 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 1m

Apologies about the audio. I’ll be back in 5 mins. I think the files have been set to private mode.

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briggsbhoyPosted on11:44 pm - Jun 6, 2013


essexbeancounter says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 21:56

I’ll be there tomorrow night but not alone.

yourhavingalaugh says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 22:19
Briggsbhoy
And to eat some of the chef’s macaroni,superb.

Superb macaroni at the Crow, now you are having a laugh. For years I could not look at Macaroni I was traumatised as a child have to eat Macaroni at Schools dinners, it wiz minging

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briggsbhoyPosted on11:49 pm - Jun 6, 2013


I’m heading to my kip , hopefully somebody can summarise later the gist of the conversation and implications as I cannot pick up what being said the speakers on my laptop are crap

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on11:51 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 1m

Audio Links now working. Much more Duff and Phelps to come. Charles Green upload tomorrow. 1 hour meeting with CW unedited 09 May 2012.

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paulmac2Posted on11:54 pm - Jun 6, 2013


Auldheid says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 19:17
…………………………………..

I had a response from UEFA within a week when I emailed a question to them a few months back.

Granted their answer merely pointed me to the relevant UEFA document that contained their rules on people who are banned from professional football still being involved in a professional football club..

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paulmac2Posted on11:57 pm - Jun 6, 2013


briggsbhoy says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 23:44
0 1 Rate This
essexbeancounter says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 21:56

I’ll be there tomorrow night but not alone.

yourhavingalaugh says:
Thursday, June 6, 2013 at 22:19
Briggsbhoy
And to eat some of the chef’s macaroni,superb.

Superb macaroni at the Crow, now you are having a laugh. For years I could not look at Macaroni I was traumatised as a child have to eat Macaroni at Schools dinners, it wiz minging
……………………………

School dinners…one word…..semalina…not fit for a pigs trough!

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enough is enoughPosted on12:00 am - Jun 7, 2013


I’m only at Charlottes 3rd …………just wow!

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Danish PastryPosted on12:01 am - Jun 7, 2013


Wow … a lot of audio. Late-nite listening …

Thank you Lotte …

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enough is enoughPosted on12:05 am - Jun 7, 2013


Duff n Duffer —- R.I.P mon the bampots!

Mr Wriggly from Wrigglesville couldn’t wriggle out of this!

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enough is enoughPosted on12:09 am - Jun 7, 2013


All TSFM posters busy? I wonder why …… 🙂

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on12:11 am - Jun 7, 2013


l’m loving this because it’s justifying my loathing of the SPL and SFA but will anything change in the press, I don’t think so. 🙁

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Danish PastryPosted on12:18 am - Jun 7, 2013


“The SFA & SPL making up rules as they go along …”, so said D&P.

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bhoyantPosted on12:19 am - Jun 7, 2013


in number 2 of 8 (20 secs)who’s mobile number is given to CW? Bet you a certain internet bampot will be on it!

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Danish PastryPosted on12:21 am - Jun 7, 2013


bhoyant says:
Friday, June 7, 2013 at 00:19
0 0 Rate This

in number 2 of 8 (20 secs)who’s mobile number is given to CW? Bet you a certain internet bampot will be on it!
——-

Thought that was Bill Millar’s number …

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on12:25 am - Jun 7, 2013


Part 6 – Hello to the SNP 🙂

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on12:44 am - Jun 7, 2013


McCoist – Not a manager but good at pipping the media……saved for this process

Part 8 is ace 🙂

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on12:45 am - Jun 7, 2013


Duffers will probably be given a hot reception the next time their new parent vies for work amongst certain Scottish companies. Deid Co walking methinks.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on12:47 am - Jun 7, 2013


It was the blue knights number disconnected wonder why

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on12:48 am - Jun 7, 2013


DAndP staff are so dead unemployable – just cant bekieve it

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pilgrim1888Posted on12:49 am - Jun 7, 2013


Just finished listening to the duff and phelps recordings, what seems to being suggested is that the SNP government would take measures to ensure the survival of Rangers. Someone tell me I have misheard or misunderstood what was being said?

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Danish PastryPosted on12:50 am - Jun 7, 2013


bhoyant says:
Friday, June 7, 2013 at 00:19
0 0 Rate This

in number 2 of 8 (20 secs)who’s mobile number is given to CW? Bet you a certain internet bampot will be on it!
——-

Ok, that bit was confusing bhoyant, they were discussing Brian Kennedy & Bill Millar. It was maybe Kennedy’s number …

Very interesting fly-on-wall stuff otherwise. SFA & SPL needed a newco pronto for Rangers to take part in season, which the D&P described as “all cock-eyed”, since common sense would have said a CVA route was preferable to a newco, for pure footballing reasons of saving the club, hence the need later to recognise the newco as oldco! Help ma boab! Never realised Bill Millar was so close either …

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on12:51 am - Jun 7, 2013


Interesting, I’ll let someone who knows these processes better explain what exactly D&P were doing wrong discussing the sale of the club with the major shareholder.

But the stuff about SFA/SPL/ Scottish Government (SNP) proves what we all believed, corruption all the way to the top, they truly believed in armageddon and social unrest if rfc* failed.

But the stuff about Super Ally, my poor sides!!!

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pilgrim1888Posted on12:57 am - Jun 7, 2013


Forres Dee (@ForresDee) says:
Friday, June 7, 2013 at 00:51
1 0 Rate This
Interesting, I’ll let someone who knows these processes better explain what exactly D&P were doing wrong discussing the sale of the club with the major shareholder.

But the stuff about SFA/SPL/ Scottish Government (SNP) proves what we all believed, corruption all the way to the top, they truly believed in armageddon and social unrest if rfc* failed.

But the stuff about Super Ally, my poor sides!!!

Rotten to the core. Makes me sick to think I help vote the SNP into power. Unfortunate side effect of the revelation they were willing to step in to save rangers is that it guarantees the blue vote in the upcoming independence vote………

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on12:58 am - Jun 7, 2013


pilgrim1888 says:
Friday, June 7, 2013 at 00:49

Just finished listening to the duff and phelps recordings, what seems to being suggested is that the SNP government would take measures to ensure the survival of Rangers. Someone tell me I have misheard or misunderstood what was being said?

———————————-

Nope, that’s what I’ve understood as well.

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nickmcguinnessPosted on1:02 am - Jun 7, 2013


Any chance of an actual transcript of the best bits?
I can’t open Soundcloud on my old computer.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on1:08 am - Jun 7, 2013


Well Craig any more?

You know you want to ditch the silk suits for cotton or wool it fsukks the audio up. Anyhow well done.

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lurchingfrompillartopostPosted on1:11 am - Jun 7, 2013


Part 6 audio – challenge for MSM – how to report this insinuation on scottish government without acknowledging what was going on at oldco or the source.

good move if it was a game of chess,

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Forres Dee (@ForresDee)Posted on1:15 am - Jun 7, 2013


lurchingfrompillartopost says:
Friday, June 7, 2013 at 01:11

0 0 Rate ThisPart 6 audio – challenge for MSM – how to report this insinuation on scottish government without acknowledging what was going on at oldco or the source.

good move if it was a game of chess,

——————

Like this,

http://cheezburger.com/4526653952

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on1:17 am - Jun 7, 2013


Posted to Nicky Laws rep recommending the 10k a week option as according to TRFC sites hes the new midfield kingpin.

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ianagain

ianagainPosted on1:19 am - Jun 7, 2013


My parting comment tonight. Don’t diss Craigy buy him extra batteries.

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newtzPosted on2:08 am - Jun 7, 2013


CtF latest tapes ….
CW and Ticketus went into original deal knowing outcome was administration ….
Should have done pre-pack in Sept – Oct …
On this deal Ticketus were questioning throwing good money afetr bad ….

This was all about recouping original lost monies ….

Octopus involvement seems to amount to circa 30% when totalled ….
St James ….. also recoup …… Metro Bank anyone ?

Original investors will recoup big time …. shortly when lock in expires ….

So IMO and apparenty CtH … will CW … but possibly by a different approach …

As CtH originally intimated (on TSFM) … this could be about as much negative press as possible to drive the Share Price Down ……. Short Trading …. !
Timing of all this publicity is curious ………… Market Manipulation ?

Will be interesting to watch level of share purchases (not sells) in this respect as any short sellers convert to cash out …..

Not good for some though ….. but still ok for original investors …

Original investors hold 65m shares between them (E.g. Hargreave control 7.7148% = 5m shares bought at £0.01p ….)
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=11435450

Interesting ……

There could be a big story to unfold in this …………. eventually !

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redlichtiePosted on3:07 am - Jun 7, 2013


A couple of basic questions before analysis of the D&P tape gets underway….

Should D&P have been involved in this kind of detailed discussion with CW?

Whose interests were being served by such a discussion?

* * *

Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on3:54 am - Jun 7, 2013


Re: latest CF tapes
================

Couldn’t hear the recordings well at all, but I took a random sample of 3 of the tapes.

What I did notice is that the only voice I could hear clearly was Whyte’s.

I know he has a distinctive voice, but first impression was that the recording device was nearest to Whyte – and the other voices sounded like background noise / further away.

So was Craigy recording again ?
Is this another indication that CF is Whyte – or is someone in Whyte’s camp ?

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twopandaPosted on6:01 am - Jun 7, 2013


These tapes really do need transcripts – can`t hear all – most very faint / indistinct.

Still lots of questions though.
Especially on pre-administration plans and everyone involved
Why CG may have been introduced indirect via CW – and so late.
What did the SFA / SPL know?
Why reference to SNP?
As we thought – they all appear to be in the soup up to their necks.
IPA public credibility?

LH should call all this in.
We`ll see

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Danish PastryPosted on6:04 am - Jun 7, 2013


Morning StevieBC. Try using headphones. If you have an audio limiter in your audio player software you can screw up to get the faint voices without being deafened by CW’s voice. Otherwise just adjust the volume manually. But headphones are a must 😉

* There’s actually someone with a Scottish accent on these recordings too. Not sure who that is.

* Surprised by the amount of detail on the various bids that Mr Whyte is given by the D&P chaps. But maybe that is normal as he stands to lose big time if he is left with ‘years of litigation’ – something he was worried about. Well, that’s not been avoided.

* Whyte does seem calm about the whole set of bids (if his purpose all along was to install Green). But then again, it sounds as though Bill Millar was the only bidder who did NOT need Craig’s shares because he was going newco. According to D&P, Millar saw it as a huge ‘franchising opportunity’.

* Whyte introduces the idea of Green at this meeting, who I think Craig says he met via a Singaporian friend.

* Ticketus seemed to be aware of the whole purchase plan by Whyte from the off, and I believe it is indicated that they perhaps knew that an insolvancy event was inevitable (question is, how early on did they know this?). This part needs re-listening to carefully.

* Football authorities bending over backwards and making up rules as they went along to accomodate RFC oldco or newco.

* Whichever club (oldco or newco) emerged, it would face only financal penalties – no points penalties, as long as it had emerged from admin or was established as a newco (ahem, quite a promise). So RFC or TRFC were to remain in SPL at all costs.

* Whyte repeats the view that if McCoist had won more matches and avoided the European disasters they might have lasted until the close season 2012. Seems Whyte was not impressed by AM’s managerial abilities.

* D&P: there was no money for June, although they thought they could get financing on the basis of upcoming STs.

* A bit of amusement about various characters. The march to an empty Hampden (was it empty?) seems to have come across as an unusual happening.

* Lots more, deserves a few listens, especially if you’ve ever wanted to be an actual fly on the wall, which many of us did at the time. The one-hour of Whyte & Green should be revealing too, although it might only be released after the watershed!

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twopandaPosted on6:46 am - Jun 7, 2013


@DP
Thanks – Brill snap-shots!

My main question would be – did they get the best outcome for either selling as a going concern or even in the best interest of the oft forgotten creditors with such involvement of CW. Not sure CW likes PM nor was that enthusiastic about BM [who didn`t need the shares as claimed] and CW introduced another party – with whom there are disputed links & claims in progress. The result is an on-going mess.

In fairness they did accept BM. But to accept CG [or whoever he represents] after being indirectly introduced by CW [if tape genuine] raises so many doubts – that needs an adequate explanation beyond the creditor’s reports.

Ah Yes – the watershed – don`t need headphones for him 😉

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chipm0nkPosted on7:17 am - Jun 7, 2013


I have only listened to a small part of this material however one thing strikes me which I was not clear on before.

There is a comment on the 8th tape from the other person talking, not Whyte, along the lines of

==========================

“If this guy Charles Green wants to meet later I’d be happy to …”

CW “So are you around later, yeah”

“Yeah”

CW “Ok I’ll speak to …”

“I’m doing something this evening but to be honest I, speaking for myself not David, I’m happy to come and sort some stuff …”

CW “OK”

“So probably best you go and face to face with him … are you going to meet him in London”

CW “I’m going to meet him … just at The Grosvenor House”

“OK”

He (not Whyte) then goes on to talk about a dinner date, but there’s going to be lots of people at it so he won’t be missed.

CW “I’ll speak to him when I leave here”

CW goes on to say that “we’re almost past the final stage here”

CW “This is going to be an interesting week then”

“I hope so”

“Let us know about Charles”

CW “Yeah, I will do”

============================

Whilst it seems clear from these tapes that D&P were working hand in glove with Whyte in this administration / liquidation (as they were in the acquisition) it would appear from the short extract above that it was not them who were dealing directly with Green, at that stage.

The obvious implication is that it was Whyte who brought Green into the mix, indeed the person speaking to Whyte agreed that it was best Whyte did the “face to face”.

Whilst it seems to be that D&P believed they were colluding with Whyte, at the same time he was working towards his own agenda with Green. This corroborates, and is corroborated by earlier material in which the same is suggested. Whyte and Green were working together to get Rangers out of administration (debt free) and into their control.

It seems however that in the same way Whyte was working behind D&P’s backs green was doing the same to him.

Honour amongst thieves and so forth.

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upthehoopsPosted on7:19 am - Jun 7, 2013


Maybe it’s just me, but imagine the following:

1. An organisation, eg local council, company, Government Quango has been the subject of much media discussion 12-16 months ago as the taxpayer has been stung for many millions of pounds.

2. An independent organisation has been appointed by a court to oversee what has happened and to take steps to recover as much money as possible.

3. A tape of the independent organisation allegedly discussing the situation with the disgraced head of the body being investigated appears on the Internet. Part of the tape is an allegation the Scottish Government are doing everything they can to help the organisation that has stung the taxpayer.

4. Would the media sit in silence at the new allegation? I think not!

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chipm0nkPosted on7:22 am - Jun 7, 2013


As an aside, bu i think an important one, it is being reported that James Easdale will be announced as a new Director in the very near future.

Sorry if already posted, not totally up to speed.

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pilgrim1888Posted on7:31 am - Jun 7, 2013


Slipped under the radar last night. Link to James Easdale story.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4958908/Bus-tycoon-becomes-Rangers-director-and-Malcolm-Murray-stays.html

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briggsbhoyPosted on7:43 am - Jun 7, 2013


pilgrim1888 says:
Friday, June 7, 2013 at 00:57

Cant see the SNP getting the blue vote automatically as a result of this and the reverse is it may put non Sevco fans off the SNP. The other thing is how would Sevco fans feel if there no Union Jack ! it would be as deid as the oldco. TD’s coming I can feel it.

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pilgrim1888Posted on7:52 am - Jun 7, 2013


briggsbhoy says:
Friday, June 7, 2013 at 07:43
0 0 Rate This
pilgrim1888 says:
Friday, June 7, 2013 at 00:57

Cant see the SNP getting the blue vote automatically as a result of this and the reverse is it may put non Sevco fans off the SNP. The other thing is how would Sevco fans feel if there no Union Jack ! it would be as deid as the oldco. TD’s coming I can feel it.

————————

You make some valid points briggsbhoy, reflecting on my post which btw was made far too late into the night to be wholly rational!!! I can accept what you are saying regarding non sevco fans. Re the no Union Jack that indeed is an interesting moral dilemma for them.

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briggsbhoyPosted on7:56 am - Jun 7, 2013


who is the Angela that Sevco occasionally refer to CF as ? is it CW’s ex ?

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briggsbhoyPosted on8:02 am - Jun 7, 2013


If the SNP get their wish next year the UJ will be as redundant as those the logo branded ashtray and smoke extractors in pubs. Either there will be a fire sale down Govan way or an increase in sales of memorabilia, maybe I should vote SNP for badness

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Tartawulver

TartawulverPosted on8:30 am - Jun 7, 2013


From what I’ve heard of the tapes so far, one thing that stood out was the assertion that ‘HMRC are very clear they want liquidation and will want to appoint their own liquidator’ and also ‘Its too late now for a CVA’. This all apparently on 1st May 2012. Didn’t Charles Green at a much later date come out fuming because he said that HMRC had given no indication they would block a CVA?

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