A Blog by James Forrest for TSFM
I am a socialist, and as a socialist I believe in the fundamental goodness of people. Some people find that hard to believe when they read the stuff I write.
I published my first novel recently, on politics and the corrupting nature of it, and it is a deeply cynical book, a book where no-one has clean hands come the end. What has surprised some of those who’ve read it is that I didn’t focus on the lies and smears of the right, but the hypocrisy and deceit of those who claim to be of the left.
Corruption, you see, doesn’t respect political boundaries or points of view. It’s like rainwater. It finds every crack, and gets in there.
My political beliefs revolve around two apparently paradoxical elements; the belief in the inherent decency of people and the need for a strong, and powerful, state. I believe the second underpins the first, and this brings me into conflict with a lot of people, some on the left and some on the right. Too many people see the state as inherently evil, as something that interferes too much in the lives of ordinary people. As something suffocating.
Yet the state exists to protect us. It exists to provide a safety net. It exists to regulate and to oversee. If the state is made up of bad people, if the gears of society are captured by those with malicious or selfish intent, the results are obvious; war, corruption, chaos.
The vast majority of our problems in the modern age can be neatly summed up in two lines from Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming”, which I used to open my novel. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”
We live in a time when those who are protecting their own interests have assumed such power that they’ve cowed the rest of us. They have become a law unto themselves. They have changed the nature of the game, because they have sapped our will to the extent some barely put up a fight anymore. The weak get weaker, and the strong use their strength to crush the rest even more. It is a vicious struggle, a downward spiral.
Society is held together not only by the endeavour and common interests of its citizens but by a collection of laws. We elect the people who make those laws. They do so in our name, and we can remove that right every four years. That is a powerful thing, and we do not appreciate it enough. The present corruption exists because we allow it to exist.
The people around me continue to puzzle over my uncommon interest in the affairs of a football club on the west of Glasgow. My own club plays in the east end. I tell those who ask that my primary interest in the goings-on at the club calling itself Rangers is no longer about football; how could it be, after all? With promotion this year they are still a full two divisions below us, emasculated, skint, weak and unstable. If we were fortunate enough to draw them in cup competition the match would be over, as a tie, by the halfway point … in the first half.
In footballing terms they are an utter irrelevance.
Rangers is more than a football club to me. They are a symbol. Their unfolding calamity is an on-going outrage. What is happening there, what is being allowed to happen, is an offense to decency. It is a stain on the face of our country.
In short, it is a scandal. It is a scandal without parallel in sport.
Yet it’s not just a sports story either. If it was, I might not be so focussed on it. What is happening at Rangers is a colossal failure of governance. It is a damning indictment against the very people who are supposed to oversee our game. It is a disgraceful abrogation of responsibility from those at the top, those who claim to be “running things.”
If this is not a failure of governance it is a result of corruption at the heart of our national sport. It says they are bought and paid for, and I will say no such thing here.
So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. We’ll say instead that what they are is weak, indecisive, inept and disconnected from reality.
It reminds me of our political class, which has become insular and ignorant about what the public wants, and what it needs. It’s not a wonder parties like UKIP can achieve national vote shares of 25% at local elections. Nigel Farage strikes me as a dog-whistle politician, the kind who knows how to appeal to a select group of voters. He is little different to Charles Green, the man who beguiled Rangers fans into handing over large amounts of money, because he was “standing up for the club.” It is easy to do what he did, easy to do what Farage is doing.
Real leadership requires toughness. Say what you like about the Tories, but they have that in spades. Yeats was right about the worst being full of passionate intensity. Green was. Farage is. Cameron and Osborne personify it in their political outlook.
It is easy to be cowed by blunt force politics, and by “tough talking Yorkshire men” and venomous speeches about “strivers and skivers.” The politics of divide and conquer is the oldest form of politics there is, and it’s no surprise to see it practiced by some of the vested interests in the game here in Scotland. Yet, lest we forget … something significant happened last year. The maligned and the ignored, the weak and the voiceless found something they never realised they had. They discovered that, in a very real sense, the power was in their hands.
Last year, the fans rose up when the governing bodies and the media went all-out to save Rangers from the self-inflicted wounds caused by a decade of cheating, malpractice and ineptitude. I have no problem calling that what it was.
What happened at Rangers seemed incredible, but it was all too predictable, and some of us had been talking about it for years before it hit. The Association seemed caught in the headlights but it would amaze me if they really were as insular and ignorant as they appeared. They must have known how bad the outlook was for Rangers. They just chose to ignore it.
They were aided and abetted by a thoroughly disreputable media, a collection of cowards and compromisers, charlatans and frauds, masquerading as journalists, but who long ago laid aside any claim to be bold investigators and settled for commenting on events as they unfolded. More often than not, with their ill-informed opinions, sometimes due to weaknesses in intellect and others wilfully ignorant, they failed even in that.
Entire newspapers became PR machines for crooks and swindlers. They aided in the scam because they didn’t do their jobs, some because they were lazy, some because they were incompetent and others because they wanted a seat at the table and were willing to sacrifice whatever integrity they once had in exchange for one.
That all of this was embraced by the Rangers fans is amazing to me. They trusted when they should have been asking questions. They closed their eyes, covered their ears and sang their battle tunes at the top of their voices so they wouldn’t have to hear anything they didn’t like. As incredible as I found it then, and still find it now – and now, even more so, when they have already seen the results of it once – I find it pathetic too, and I do feel pity for some of them.
A lot of these people are genuine football fans, and nothing more. They have no interest in the phony narrow nationalism, or the over-blown religion, or the notion of supremacy which manifested itself in a ludicrous statement from McCoist when interviewed recently on Sky.
Some of the Rangers fans look at their team of duds, kids and journeymen, they look at a boardroom of cowards and crooks, they look at a failing manager in his first (and last) job in the game and at a dark future and are not in the least bit impressed by, or interested in, the chest-out arrogance espoused in those ridiculous words “we are the people.” They know full well that their present crisis was made by men like McCoist, and they understand that pretentious posturing is not an act born of strength, but a scrambling around in the gutter, and a symptom of weakness.
They understand their position, and they hate it. And because they care about Rangers, because they value the club, because they cherish those things that made it a great Scottish institution, they want that back. They understand that before the Union Jack waving, Sash singing, poppy wearing, Nazi saluting, Orange element became the public face of their support Rangers meant something else, and that, above all things, is what pains them the most.
People do not hate Rangers. When the country appeared to turn its back last year, they were turning the back on favouritism and the bending of rules. Yet it would be a lie to say that there is not an element of dislike in the gleeful mockery of many rival fans.
But they don’t hate Rangers either. They hate the version of it around which a certain section of the support continues to dance. They hate the version which hates, and so too do many, many, many Rangers supporters, and they definitely deserve better.
David Murray chose not to openly challenge that version. Indeed, he encouraged certain strands of it to flourish and grow, with his “Britishness Days” and his effort to turn the club into the “team that supports the troops.” Other clubs have done as much, if not more, for the British Army than the one that plays out of Ibrox. Other clubs have given more money. Other clubs have lent their support to those on the front lines. They just chose to do it with respect, and with class, and with dignity. They chose to do it in private, understanding that there eventually comes a tipping point between looking after the ends of the soldiers and using them to promote your own.
The army has not battened on to Rangers. Rangers has battened on to them, and although it is unclear when an altruistic motive became darker, what started out as a gesture of solidarity is now used to entrench division and promote a notion of superiority.
Craig Whyte took over from Murray and immediately understood the lure of the “dog whistle.” He knew too that the media would accept whatever he told them, without question, and as he spoke up for “Rangers traditions” he made sure the lunatic fringe was well onside. He met face to face with the hard-core extremists in the support first and made them his praetorian guard. They spoke up for him until the day the club entered administration.
So, whereas Murray pandered to them and Whyte used them to further his own ends, it was only a matter of time before someone suggested to Charles Green that he could use the same tactics to win over the support. He went even further and blatantly promoted and encouraged this mind-set, and stoked the hate and nonsense to frightening new heights. The same people who cheered Whyte to the rafters jumped on board the Big Blue Bus and the results are clear.
Through all of it, the ordinary Rangers fan has seen his club buffered against the rocks, battered, broken, smashed to smithereens and sunk. Now there’s a big hole in the side of the lifeboat, and they are terrified that further tragedies await.
They are right to be concerned. Much of the media is still not telling them what they need to know. The people in charge of their club – the owners who have lied, the former hack who covered up the truth about Whyte and now acts as a mouthpiece for Green, the “club legends” who are content to sup with the devil and take his greasy coin when they should be standing toe-to-toe with the fans – are trying to silence those members of the press who do have facts to present.
How many times now have media outlets been banned from Ibrox for daring to report the truth? The manager who demanded the names of a committee last year defends those inside the walls who are desperate to keep secret the things that are going on. He is either an unprincipled coward, or he is, himself, bought and paid for. The fans suffer for it.
The “inconvenient truth” is still being kept from them, and this denies them any chance to play an active role in their club. Indeed, it is all too possible that they’ve passed a point of no return, and that their club is heading for a new liquidation event and it can no longer be stopped.
In either case, their power has been eroded to the point at which they must feel they have nothing left to do but stand back and watch what happens next.
They are wrong. I am a socialist. I believe in the inherent good of people. I think the ordinary decent Rangers fans are the only people left who can save their club … and the means by which they will do it is as simple as it could be.
They must stand up for “big government.” They must embrace the need for a “strong state.” They must lobby the SFA, and they must trust the SFA and they must get the SFA to follow its own rules and thereby save them from any further harm.
There is a tendency amongst some Celtic fans to see our governing bodies as pro-Rangers. If it is true then those running our game are ruining Scottish football without benefiting the thing they love more. The incalculable harm that has been done to Rangers in the last 20 some months is a direct result of the subservient media and the willingness of the football authorities to be “deaf, dumb and blind.” Those who believe this has actually helped the Ibrox club have not been paying attention in class. It has irrevocably scarred them, and it may yet have played a hand in destroying them once and for all, as a force if not as a club entirely.
For years, the SFA sat and did nothing as a club in their association operated a sectarian signing policy. They did nothing whilst the fans sang sectarian songs. In their failure to act they strengthened those elements of the Rangers support, instead of isolating, alienating and eventually helping to eliminate those who saw that club as a totem pole of division and hate. Their failure over EBT’s, and their lack of scrutiny, led to one of the greatest scandals in the history of sport, and I say that with no equivocation at all. The testimony of their registrations officer in the Lord Nimmo Smith investigation was a disgrace and in years to come it will rank as one of the most disreputable and damaging moments in the association’s history.
The most egregious failures of all were the failures in the so-called “fit and proper person” tests, which allowed first Whyte and then Charles Green to assume controlling positions at Ibrox. They will pass the buck and say the responsibility lies with the club itself, in much the same way as they are content to let the club investigate itself at the present time, but any neutral who looks at this stance knows it is unprincipled and spineless. It’s like letting the defence set the terms at a trial. It is foxes investigating the chicken coop.
It is a blueprint for corruption, and a recipe for disaster.
It is now too late for the SFA to declare Green “unfit”, as it was too late when they finally slapped that title on Craig Whyte. He and his allies own Rangers, and they control its destiny. They can push the club to the wall if they choose, in the final extremity, if that gets them what they want. The time for changing that is past. The damage has already been done. The barbarians are not at the gates. They are inside the walls, and sacking the city.
The SFA will be forced to punish Rangers for the sins of the owners, for the second time in as many years, and whilst it is right that the club face up to that, all the better to send a message to other clubs and other owners, the SFA cannot be allowed to slither off the hook here as though this was none of their doing. Green will skip off into the sunset. Craig Whyte has yet to pay his fine. These people never cared about Scottish football and they don’t care now.
The SFA are supposed to. Our governing body is supposed to govern, for the good of the whole game, and not as a support system for a single club. What they have allowed to happen on their watch is absolutely shameful and if the people responsible were men at all, with any sense of accountability, they would resign en masse.
They can pretend ignorance, but only the truly ignorant would accept that. Craig Whyte was not inside Ibrox a week before RTC and other sites were dismantling his entire business history, with some of the people here doing the work the SFA would not. Whyte himself claims to have made the governing bodies aware of the scale of what was facing the club, and they did nothing at all. Heads should have rolled a year ago.
In October of last year, on this very site, I posted an article in which I wrote:
“Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.
To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.”
There are times when it is fun to be right, but this is not one of them. It is dispiriting and disquieting to have been so on the nose. It scares the Hell out of me, as someone who loves football in this country, to have seen this matter clearly when the people running our game apparently either did not or chose to ignore very real, very obvious, concerns. The Internet Bampots had no special insight or access to information that was denied those at the SFA. We just weren’t prepared to ignore it and pretend that it wasn’t there. There was too much at stake.
I have become convinced that things will never change until the Rangers supporters join us in demanding the full and unabridged truth here. They need to come out from under the bed, and confront their fears. They need to be willing to take the consequences, so that their club can emerge clean from this, and start again, with all this behind them.
And it can all happen with one simple thing. The application of the rules.
The existence of laws comes down to a simple principle; they protect society from those elements within it who are interested only in their own selfish ends. We may cry out at those rules and regulations we see as “restrictive”, but the law was not made to restrict our freedoms but to protect them. Had the SFA years ago acted against Rangers sectarian signing policy, and the songs from the stands, the club would not have mutated to the point where there was no help on hand when they needed it the most. Let’s not kid ourselves about this; Whyte and Green were only able to grab control because the club itself has a dreadful image which put off respectable and responsible buyers. The SFA could have helped change that perception years ago and did nothing.
The SFA could have conducted its own investigation into who Craig Whyte was. They could have asked David Murray for full disclosure when he was running up £80 million of debt, a sum of money that is beyond belief for a single club in a small provincial backwater league. Had they had the guts to do that the club would never have spent itself into oblivion and forced the hand of Lloyds, which led indirectly to their ignominious end.
The SFA could have fully investigated Charles Green and the means by which he took control, instead of rushing through a license. His emergence at the last minute was transparently suspicious and designed to force them into a quick decision, but they did not have to bow to that pressure by making one, without being in possession of the facts, as it is now 100% clear they were not.
Had they asked for every document, had they insisted on legal affidavits and personal securities from investors (and this would have been perfectly legitimate and is common place in other licensing areas) none of this would have come to pass. After Craig Whyte they had a moral responsibility to the rest of the game to get this one right and their failure is without parallel in the history of Scottish football.
As the club hurtles towards a new abyss, names are cropping up which should send a shudder down the spines of every honest, genuine supporter of not only Rangers but every team in the land. The SFA claims that a strong Rangers is essential for the sake of Scottish football, but they have been extraordinarily lax in protecting that club, and therefore the game, from destructive elements. Craig Whyte and Charles Green had dubious personal histories, and the acquisition of the club itself was mired in controversy and scandal. Yet it was allowed.
Neither Green nor Whyte were known to have operated outside the law, yet neither was worthy of trust or stood up to scrutiny. Neither man should ever have been granted the status as fit and proper persons to assume a role in our national sport, and if it is true of them what can we say about the three men who are, presently, being touted as the Great White Hopes for a bright, new Rangers future; Dave King and the Easdale brothers?
King recently cut a deal with the South African government over an on-going dispute over taxes. In other words, he pled guilty and accepted the central plank of their argument; that for years he was engaged in wilfully with-holding vast revenues from their Treasury. The media does not like to put it like that, and the SFA seems willing to ignore it utterly, and this would be scandalous enough. But it does not stop there. HRMC rules – as well as the SFA’s own governance documents – actually bar him from serving on the board of the new club.
Last but not least, aside from being an admitted tax cheat, King is also awaiting trial in South Africa, having been indicted for corruption, forgery and fraud – 300 charges in total. Yet as recently as last week, we were told that the Association was willing to look at him and consider representations from his lawyers. This is almost beyond belief.
If Dave King’s position is untenable, and he is yet to be convicted of a crime, what can we say about the position of the Easdale’s? One of the two brothers, Sandy, has already served jail time. He is a convicted criminal, a fraudster nonetheless, who’s “victim” was the same Treasury who are appealing one case involving the old club and liquidated it entirely over another. This is precisely the kind of “businessman” the fit and proper person test was supposed to weed out, and if the SFA holds its nose here the reek will stink out the halls at Hampden for decades. If King or the Easdale’s are judged fit and proper, then who exactly is the test for? What exactly do you have to do to fail it? How do we explain the existence of laws, when these are not applied?
Pascal says “Law without force is impotent.” The SFA’s weakness has allowed one version of Rangers to destroy itself, and has allowed an existential risk to another. If the next power at Rangers resides in South Africa or Greenock I can say with some certainty that the Association is engaged in an even more dangerous roll of the dice, because the surfacing of fresh scandal will be an ever present risk, and will be of the sort no-one will survive.
The damage to Scottish football will take years to heal. The Scottish game has been through enough trauma. It does not need more. It barely survived the last calamity to hit Rangers. The rest of us should not be forced to pay the price of the next one.
The greater damage will be done to Rangers itself. If the Green crisis ends in another collapse – as it well might; another administration event is a certainty, and another liquidation is a much more likely prospect than it was before 14 February 2012 – the club will once again have to start from the bottom, and this time the reputational damage will be impossible to repair. The club faces internal strife, sporting sanctions, and criminal investigations. The last takeover might be declared a fraud. the Whyte takeover will almost certainly be. The share issue might be invalid, as well as criminal, and the people involved may well end up in jail. Lawsuits could follow from investors, there could be as yet unknown consequences from the Upper Tier Tax Tribunal (thank you Brogan Rogan for pointing out what those might be) and a host of other issues.
Rangers fans must be the loudest voices here. How do you want the world to view your club in years to come? Do you want one to be proud of, or one forever associated with the shame and disgrace of these days gone by? The one which bailed out on its tax obligations. The one with supporters who disgrace your very name. The one which allowed Whyte and Green to take you to the cleaners and send you to the wall. The one which handed over control to one convicted criminal and another awaiting trial. Do you want to be reborn clean, or mired in the muck?
David Murray destroyed your financial stability. He made it so no bank would issue you a line of credit and no investor of note wanted to buy. Craig Whyte liquidated you. Charles Green has cast the future of the Newco into doubt and acted in a manner which has annihilated your credibility with the financial markets for decades to come.
Between these three men, they have taken everything from you, and the press and the people who run the game here, as well as some of your own blindly ignorant fans, have allowed them to do all this and more. Now they conspire to hand the keys to Ibrox to other men of questionable character, who will wreck further havoc on the reputation of the club.
The Scottish Football Association has damaged the game it was supposed to protect, but above all else their greatest failure of governance was a failure to protect one of its biggest clubs from its own excesses and those of its owners.
Rangers fans, the SFA have betrayed your trust, more than the trust of any other club. What you must insist on now is full disclosure and transparency from the powers that be in Hampden. The SFA has to end the charade of allowing your club to handle this in-house. They must hand everything over to an outside agency – whether a legal one, or a footballing body like UEFA – and they must demand co-operation and answers, and threaten to withhold the license if they don’t get them.
You must not be afraid of that. You must embrace it. The men with their hands on the gears at Ibrox are motivated by money, and nothing more. If the license is withdrawn their “investments” are worthless. They cannot risk that.
You must demand that the rules on fit and proper persons are applied, and where necessary even made stronger, to prevent your club falling into unclean hands. You must demand that they protect your reputation from further damage, by getting this all out there and acting accordingly, even if that means your club does not play football for at least a year.
You must be willing to suck it all up, knowing that what will emerge is a Rangers which has been cleansed and moves forward with honour, and dignity, led by custodians who treasure it rather than those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
The Rangers Standard has recently emerged as a genuine voice for those in your support who are sick and tired of what Rangers has become, and want it restored to something that is worthy of the love and respect in which you hold it. On that website, there are discussions about the kind of club you seek to be and about whether the institution of Rangers is about more than just football.
If that’s how you feel about it then you know it is about more than how many titles the club can claim, about more than just results on the park, about more than just the game. Rangers, like Celtic, is an idea. It has to be something you are proud of.
I am a socialist, but one with a fevered imagination and a tendency to write very dark things. This piece won’t have been good reading for some of you (perhaps all of you haha!) but I think there’s more hope in here than in other things I’ve written.
In spite of everything that’s come to pass, I still believe. I believe in Scottish football. I believe in our system of football governance, even if those who are working in it are failing on some level.
In society, as much as we strain against them, laws exist for our protection. To fail to enforce them is to leave us at the mercy of those elements who would do us harm. The rules of football ensure the protection of all clubs, not just a few.
The failure to enforce the rules has never had graver consequences than here in Scotland. The irony is that bending and breaking them has hurt the one club those violations were designed to help. It cannot be allowed to happen again.
The rules must be applied without fear or favour.
The best must find their conviction, and their passionate intensity once more.
James is a co-editor of the On Fields of Green Blog http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/
torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 09:55
0 0 Rate This
A Robert Greive exclusive in The Sun..
ALLY McCOIST wants Marius Zaliukas as his defensive rock for next season.
SunSport can reveal the ex-Hearts skipper tops the list of targets drawn up by the Rangers boss.
Zaliukas, 29, is available for free after quitting the Jambos at the end of the season.
And McCoist plans to hold talks with the Lithuanian international next week in the hope of luring him to Ibrox.
Finding a dominant centre-half is McCoist’s top priority as he prepares for the Second Division.
The Gers gaffer has weighed up various options and has now decided Zaliukas is the man he wants to stiffen his side which leaked too many goals last term. Zaliukas had seven years at Tynecastle after joining from FBK Kaunas in 2006 and became a Jambos legend as skipper for their historic 5-1 Scottish Cup Final victory over Hibs last year.
It is unclear whether he would be interested in signing for the Ibrox side, but McCoist hopes he can sell him on the move.
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29 years old.
Ally better hope that reconstruction goes through or he’s gonna be left with more over 21 players than he’s allowed.
Another wage added to the already stretched(and that’s putting it mildly) budget.
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Don’t think he has top “hope” anything I see a dignified leg up being given too
Who is this guy “Jaap” that Craig Whyte keeps mentioning? Or is it Jaap-Jaap?
John clarke says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 02:33
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onto8on8his8high8horse says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 02:14
‘..I would think that P&M will be pretty pissed off as someone has made a right arse of them.’
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@onto ….
your post was wide of the mark …. PM remit was to investigate post June 14th ….
however, ….
The events pre June 14th are imporatnt in so far that they spell out the structures that were being formulated and the extent of collusion between the different individuals ….
Where PM have failed is to investigate fully the relationship between S(5088) & S(Scotland)….
We now know the share distribution of S(5088) and that RIFC have declared to AIM that S(5088) are a subsidiary. …… Clear evidence that there was a relationship post June 14th, and without considering fully the pre June 14th evidence of collusion, and crucially the events of June 14th itself ….. the mechanism of transfer from S(5088) to S(Scotand) …. it seems to me that PM will not have discharged their duties fully and properly …… BUT … laywers will trash that argument in seconds ….. arghhh … !
The interim results posted on AIM also show loans between the comp’s being repaid having been originally ‘novated’ along with the assets. …….. this was post June 14th ….
PM also refused to consider the LBC claim or QC’d LBC/LBA despite being informed prior to the close of investigation date (17th May) that such information not only existed and was key to their investigation, but would be forwarded to them.
Unless there is Full Transparency and the full findings released …. we will never get to understand their reasoning for their findings.
The SFA role here is now key …. they have no such restrictions and are duty bound to consider all the evidence, including the Whyte LBC/LBA. They will clearly need the courts to determine the merits of the claim, but they can call RIFC to account for themselves or decide that there is enough doubt to seek a judgement in (yet again) an independant investigation from the Law Lords ….. costs if found in their (SFA) favour should be bourne by RFIC.
Of course, C.O. may consider that the RIFC enquiry is sufficient and that RIFC having investigated themselves, and to have found themselves clear of all charges ….. is good enough for them (SFA) ….
I could go on …. and on … so I’ll stop there ….
@John ….. forgot now why in pasted your post ….. other than I agreed ….. 🙂
callumsson says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 05:39
Recording 6 of 8 at 6.47 in really is quite astonishing. Green outlining how he had a conversation that morning with someone (can’t quite catch the name) who has direct influence with the main decision maker at UEFA and who assured Green he would have sanctions lifted within a week…might have to “give someone a drink” but it would be done. Invited over to Athens or Switzerland to continue the conversation. Corrupt to the core.
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Is the price of a drink in proportion to the cost of a night out for Campbell Ogilvie?
Scouse Tims @PackieBonnerCSC 31m
@unwittinglymine what I’ve found surprising its not the fact that the media so far are ignoring it but the bloggers are on the whole as well
Does seem strange….
TW (@tartanwulver) says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 10:32
Is the price of a drink in proportion to the cost of a night out for Campbell Ogilvie?
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I think one is an equivalent euphemism of the other with both possibly being euphemisms for something that rhymes with “imbibe”.
newtz says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 10:31
“Of course, C.O. may consider that the RIFC enquiry is sufficient and that RIFC having investigated themselves”.
—————-
Campbell Ogilvie is a crucial member of this house of cards. The LNS judgement (no, I’ve not read it all yet ecobhoy), makes perfect sense if you assume CO is highly compromised. His subordinate from the SFA who provided ‘guidance’ concerning the ramifications of LNS findings will have been acting in the knowledge that his career was on the line just like his boss’. Irrespective of LNS role, the whole process is discredited due to this fundamental flaw that deprived the commission of the ability to be impartial.
I commend EasyJambo’s alternative view on the CO and Scottish Government role in the fiasco. It is good to be provided with another angle to offer a more rounded view. However, the CO writ indicates that he was involved in the detail of player contracts in 1999 and so his statement to LNS that in 2001 he had no such involvement is for me, barely credible. As for the Scottish Government, D&P (D&D copyright now infringed by CW) seemed to imply that they were the escape vehicle of last resort. I suspect that as this audio is reviewed the tone will suggest the nature of this relationship.
This complexion can be placed upon the facts on the balance of probability and almost beyond reasonable doubt. The court of public opinion has noted the proceedings and will be guided accordingly.
As for Scotland, they played with tenacity and self belief. It was the proleteriat via the establishment. The Croats thought they couldn’t be beaten and were wrapped in a false sense of security. Such is the nature of sport and life in general. If you believe, you always have a chance.
So many little nuggets in the CG tapes last night …
One interesting … brain fart … by CG was his gaff on banking ….. suggestions of laundering and testing the water with Santander …. £150k out in bank cheque ….. cashed in France …. paid back in …. no questions asked … maybe Santander would like to comment on this and might have a duty to look closer at his account in the light of this revelation …… Hello Santander ….. suggestions that you might be accomadating laundering ….. !
Now on HBOS ….. sorry Charles … my screen shows …. Go straight to Jail …. Don’t pass Go … do not collect ….. now our resident Hearts fans might take note of this part of the tapes as it does not bode well for future banking facilities …. interesting to hear their thoughts ….
So, …. and the point of this post …..
Banks won’t touch you …… how do you get around this ……
Step forward Octopus ……
Step forward Metro Bank ……
I am sure that one day this story will explode …. maybe Ch4 have figured it out ….. ?
Just had a strange thought re CF …. I reckon he/she probably has some very juicy audio of Ally … Walter … SDM … To name but a few … I can see a Box Set of CDs making someone a small fortune !!!
The CVA procedure starts with the directors of the company meeting an insolvency practitioner (IP). It is preferable for the IP to meet all the directors since the directors are expected to work together, and as a team, in order to bring the company out of its financial difficulties. At the initial meeting the IP will obtain information about various aspects of the company including its assets and liabilities, the level of pressure from creditors, and expected trading results over the coming months. Unfortunately, for a variety of reasons, it is often the case that directors delay their initial approach to an IP until the state of the company has deteriorated beyond the point of no return. It is therefore important that directors take advice as soon as they are aware that the company is in financial difficulty. At the initial meeting the IP will discuss with the directors the need to prepare forecasts for cashflow and trading results. He or she will also discuss the general terms of the proposed voluntary arrangement. In the majority of cases these terms will usually be based on the company paying a fixed sum each month into a fund controlled by the IP for the benefit of the company creditors. Payments may be made for a period of up to 5 years but the period may be significantly shorter than 5 years depending on the circumstances. It is important to note that payments made under the voluntary arrangement are accepted by creditors in full and final settlement and that typically a company in a CVA will not be required to pay its debts in full.
At the initial meeting the IP will discuss with the directors other insolvency procedures, such as liquidation and administration. The main advantage of the CVA procedure which does not apply to the other procedures is that in a CVA the business of the company is continued under the day to day control of the directors. In a liquidation it is usual for the company to cease trading whilst in administration it is usual for the business to be under the day to day control of an IP until such time as the business and other assets of the company are sold.
If, after the initial meeting, the directors decide they wish to enter into a CVA then they instruct the IP to prepare a detailed document known as a proposal. The purpose of this proposal is to paint a full picture of the circumstances of the company so that the creditors of the company have all the information they can reasonably expect to enable them to decide whether they are willing to support the CVA proposal. Once the proposal document has been completed it is filed at the local county court. At that point a moratorium comes into place. This means that, subject to certain specific exceptions, creditors cannot start or continue legal proceedings against the company. The IP (who by this time is known as the nominee) then submits his or her own report to the court and to the creditors. Copies of the proposal and the nominee’s report are then sent to creditors, and also to the shareholders of the company, together with notices convening meetings of the creditors and shareholders.
From the point at which notices are sent to creditors, if not before, the IP acts as a mediator in an attempt to balance the rights and duties of the company with those of its creditors. The IP is required to satisfy himself that the CVA proposal is viable and that it has a reasonable prospect of being accepted by the creditors and implemented. There is therefore something of a balancing act between on the one hand achieving the maximum return which the creditors would ideally like, and on the other hand recognising what the company is actually capable of achieving.
In the case of most small to medium companies the meeting of shareholders ought not to present any practical difficulties. In many cases the shareholders will be the same individuals as the directors who have proposed the CVA. In any event the consent of the shareholders is not strictly required for the successful implementation of a CVA. The meeting of creditors on the other hand is an important event. That meeting is conducted by the IP who has assisted the directors in preparing the CVA proposal. In practical terms it is important that at least one director is present at the creditors meeting. There are two reasons for this. Firstly, it is the directors who are going to continue to run the company on a day to day basis. Secondly, it is likely that creditors representatives will wish to put questions to the directors and propose alterations or “modifications” to the CVA proposal. If the proposal has been prepared with sufficient thought any modifications ought to be technical and minor. Nevertheless, it may be necessary for the company to agree those modifications in order to ensure that 75% by value of creditors voting at the meeting approve the CVA terms.
An important feature of the CVA procedure is that if a creditors meeting approves terms for a CVA then the approval binds all creditors of the company who have, or ought to have, been given notice of the creditors meeting. This means that so long as a 75% by value majority is obtained at the creditors meeting, subject to specific exceptions, the terms of the VA are binding on those creditors who voted for the rejection of the proposal and also those creditors who did not vote at all. In particular creditors who voted against, or did not vote at all, cannot generally commence or continue legal proceeding against the company for debts which arose prior to the commencement of the CVA.
It should be pointed out at this stage that, in any CVA, Government Departments (Inland Revenue and HM Customs & Excise) may well be creditors for significant sums of money, and hence will have a major, if not the deciding, influence on whether the proposal is accepted and, if so, the terms of acceptance. As a bare minimum, they will expect to see provisions in the proposal regulating the company’s compliance with its Tax and VAT obligations following approval of the proposal.
Normally the IP who has helped the directors prepare the CVA proposal, i.e. the nominee, also supervises the voluntary arrangement after it has been approved. For this reason the IP is known as “the supervisor” after the date of the creditors and shareholders meetings. It is the supervisor’s duty to ensure that the company makes its payments into the CVA fund in accordance with the terms of the proposal, subject to any modifications agreed at the creditors meeting. Usually the supervisor will be required to monitor the management accounts of the company on a regular basis. The supervisor and creditors will wish to be satisfied that the company is not incurring new debt which it cannot pay in the normal course of trade. It is therefore important to recognise that the creditors approval of a CVA is by no means the end of the process. In a sense it is the beginning of the process or at least a new start so far as the company is concerned. It is likely that the supervisor and the directors will have regular meetings in order to consider the continuing trading results of the company. The trading and cashflow forecasts which were prepared prior to the creditors meeting should have been prepared carefully and on a prudent basis. If nevertheless the company has difficulty in meeting its obligations under the CVA then it is possible to go back to the creditors for a variation of the CVA terms. As with the original terms a variation is effective only if it is agreed by 75% by value of creditors voting at a meeting specifically convened to consider the variation.
Clearly the CVA procedure is not a solution for all companies in financial difficulties. For example those difficulties may arise out of a long term decline in the customer base or continuing competition which results in unacceptably low gross profit margins. Even if a company agrees CVA terms with its creditors it may prove unable to achieve the plan set out in the CVA proposal and despite the best efforts of the directors it may prove necessary for the company to be placed into liquidation. Nevertheless, if the directors have not allowed the financial health of the company to deteriorate too far before seeking financial advice and if there is a sound underlying business the CVA route is one which may usefully be followed for the benefit of the company, and its creditors, directors and shareholders.
callumsson says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 05:39
Recording 6 of 8 at 6.47 in really is quite astonishing. Green outlining how he had a conversation that morning with someone (can’t quite catch the name) who has direct influence with the main decision maker at UEFA and who assured Green he would have sanctions lifted within a week…
____________
The name sounded like ‘Anglos Travlos’. A Google search came up with ‘Angelos Travlos” a manager and FIFA agent who was reported as being among 10 arrested in Greece for match-fixing [see http://www.grreporter.info/en/arrests_matchfixing/4728%5D.
This page also states “TRAVLOS ANGELOS MANAGER – ANGEL TRAYLOS The KNOWN MANAGER (KOLLITOS Gkagkatsi AND OF THE KOUMBAROS TZORTZEVITS) whose name has been involved in tax evasion and laundering MONEY …. Angelos Travlos – FIFA Players Agent – manager football athletes”
A fellow-traveller?
Have I got the correct name?
Slightly OT, but still on the dodgy money and football theme, an inspirational story from Newcastle:
Eurosport Paper Round:
Cisse refusing to wear ‘Wonga’ shirt
Eurosport
lørdag den 8. juni 2013
Football – Premier League
Papiss Cisse is refusing to wear Newcastle’s shirt on religious grounds as it carries the name of controversial new sponsors Wonga, according to the Daily Mirror.
In an exclusive, the paper reports: “The Senegal star has informed the Magpies of his objections, on religious and ethical grounds, to advertising the pay-day loan company while playing for them.
“Star striker Cisse, a practicing [sic] Muslim, is against helping promote Wonga, who have attracted criticism for charging sky-high interest rates that allegedly target the poor.
“Cisse’s Toon team-mates Cheick Tiote and Hatem Ben Arfa are also practicing [sic] Muslims.
“No solution has been found yet, but there is a precedent.
“Former Spurs striker Freddie Kanoute was allowed to wear an unbranded shirt after he refused to wear the logo for the 888.com gambling website on religious grounds when he signed for Spanish side Sevilla.
“Key to Newcastle’s talks with Cisse will be the wording of the player’s contract regarding what discretion the club has to make players sport sponsors’ logos.
“Sharia law states that Muslims must not benefit from either lending money or receiving money from another person.”
Wonga have replaced Virgin Money as the Toon’s sponsors for next season.
According to the Mirror, the club is respectful of his religious views, even going so far as to install a prayer room at St James’ Park.
The reported protest against a pay-day loan firm is not the first: earlier in the week a 4,500-signature petition among Bolton Wanderers fans forced the club to drop QuickQuid as a shirt sponsor.
A deal has now been done with FibrLec, a sustainable-energy company.
Cisse has been linked with a move away from Newcastle and to either big-spending Russian side Anzhi Makhachkala or Champions League runners-up Borussia Dortmund.
I do not have a good enough connection to listen to the latest CF tapes but the following applies to them as well as previous CF material.
The problem is the admissability of the material in legal terms which nullifies its value.
However there must be some process surely where someone listening thinks, as most of us do, that something is rotten in the state of Scottish football in terms of all aspects of the handling of The Rangers situation before, during and after liquidation and it is their duty to start finding evidence that is admissable.
Does such a body exist and what needs to be done to call it to account by asking them questions?
Is it the Police or Procurator Fiscal and what provokes them to act?
carucal says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 11:54
1 0 Rate This
The name sounded like ‘Anglos Travlos’. A Google search came up with ‘Angelos Travlos” a manager and FIFA agent who was reported as being among 10 arrested in Greece for match-fixing [see http://www.grreporter.info/en/arrests_matchfixing/4728%5D.
This page also states “TRAVLOS ANGELOS MANAGER – ANGEL TRAYLOS The KNOWN MANAGER (KOLLITOS Gkagkatsi AND OF THE KOUMBAROS TZORTZEVITS) whose name has been involved in tax evasion and laundering MONEY …. Angelos Travlos – FIFA Players Agent – manager football athletes”
A fellow-traveller?
Have I got the correct name?
————
Bravo carucal. I was trying to find more about that guy last week when the first CF clip came out but had him down as Tavlos not Travlos. Well done, that makes sense.
As Craig Whyte said to Green on the latest recordings (I think the discussion was on Calum Jones), “You have a knack for finding these types!”
“I’m a magnet [for them],” replied Green, to the sound of laughter.
Well, well.
Re-the question of whether Alex Salmond tried to help Rangers. The extract below is a response to a F.O.I request made (not by me) requesting details of conversations held between the First Minister and HMRC. As you will see the request was refused as to release the information could damage the relationship between the Scottish and UK Governments. This of course leads us to speculate, and my slant if it was a simple, standard request to help a failing company there would be nothing to hide. As taxpayers we have a right to know if the First Minister attempted to have HMRC write off tax that was deliberately withheld in order for RFC to survive. All democratically elected Governments are supported by tax paid in full and on time. The Scottish Government is no different, and IF an attempt was made to deny the country tax it is owed then that is an absolute scandal, but they have chosen not to tell us.
==================================================
Dear xx xxxxxxxx
Thank you for your request dated 18 February under the Freedom of Information (Scotland)
Act 2002 (FOISA) for:
“In a recent television interview the First Minister revealed that he had spoken to HMRC in
relation to tax owing by Rangers Football Club”
1. “all correspondence (including email correspondence)between the First Minister’s office
and HMRC on this subject during the period from 2006 to 2012.”
2. “all records that you have in relation to telephone calls between the First Minister’s and
HMRC on this subject during the period from 2006-2012.”
3. “Can you please send me all correspondence between the First Minister’s Office and
Rangers FC (including email correspondence and all correspondence with the Administrator
of Rangers FC) on any subject during the period from 2006-2012.”
We have now completed our search for the information you requested, details are below.
1. Following a search of our paper and electronic records, I have established that the
information you require is not held by the Scottish Government.
2. I can confirm that the Scottish Government does hold information considered to be within
the scope of your request. However, an exemption under section 28(1) of FOISA (relations
within the UK) applies. This exemption applies because disclosure of the information would
be likely to prejudice substantially relations between the Scottish and UK Governments.
To upthehoops:-
Reply to SG FOI;
1. With reference to recent correspondence dated xxxxxxxx
2. Please can you confirm your response timescale is within FOI parameters.
3. I am not content with your reply which also appears at point 2 to be a refusal.
4. Please review this request and your response.
5. Please kindly include all computer/portable devices records within your review.
Danish Pastry says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 12:03
__________________________________________
URL Link you supplied didn’t work 4 me. Try this.
http://www.grreporter.info/en/arrests_matchfixing/4728
Whatever next?
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 46s
@Richwilsport @FM2308 90 Mins Whyte, Ahmad and Stockbridge coming up, Expect the names of investors and reasons to be divulged.
resin_lab_dog says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 12:42
URL Link you supplied didn’t work 4 me. Try this.
http://www.grreporter.info/en/arrests_matchfixing/4728
________________________________
My mistake. Apols.
redetin says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 13:03
Whatever next?
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 46s
@Richwilsport @FM2308 90 Mins Whyte, Ahmad and Stockbridge coming up, Expect the names of investors and reasons to be divulged.
======================================================
You beat me to the draw there 🙂
Could be interesting if it actual names as opposed to offshore companies so we can see who the real investors are and whether CW is one.
Twitter Duff & Phelps
@duffandphelps
With regard to the freedom of information request. Just a couple of suggestions.
1, Make a request to HMRC, rather than the Scottish Government..
2, Make a complaint to the Scottis Information Commissioner that the request has been refused.
http://www.itspublicknowledge.info/home/ScottishInformationCommissioner.aspx
And also, they should have told the requester what to do if they disagreed.
“If the authority decides to refuse your request, it must write to you and explain why it is refusing. If it thinks the information is exempt, it must explain why it thinks that this is the case. The authority must also tell you what to do if you do not agree.
Don’t be put off asking if you think the information might be exempt ? even if information is exempt, the authority may still let you have all or part of it.”
On the CVA issue
If a CVA had been agree would Ticketus’ rights to tickets which they had paid for survived. Would they have been collecting a large proportion of the season ticket revenue for 4 seasons.
If that was the case did any of them actually want a CVA, far less expect getting one.
Was that really just all a cosmetic exercise, because the support would never had accepted a plan which was based on liquidation. Unless every other avenue had at least been tried.
For all ….. and so the show begins ….. again
Hi Charlotte …
To ChipmOnk;
1. HMRC will not disclose or discuss any other parties tax affairs.
2. A complaint to Scottish Information Commissioner can only be made after a formal review by the requested authority, in this case Scottish Government.
3. Agreed, there should have been a note with regard to review process.
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 8m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 13/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part13 …
View media Reply Retweet Favorite More
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 9m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 12/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part12 …
View media
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 9m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 11/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part11 …
View media
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 10m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 10/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part10 …
View media
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 10m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 9/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part09 …
View media
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 11m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 8/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part08 …
View media
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 12m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 7/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part07 …
View media
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 12m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 6/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part06 …
View media
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 13m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 5/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part05 …
View media
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 13m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 4/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part04 …
View media
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 14m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 3/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part03 …
View media
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 15m
When Craig Met Brian and Imran
31 May 2012
Part 2/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part02 …
View media
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 17m
When Craig Met Brian and Ahmad
31 May 2012
Part 1/13
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part01 …
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part01
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part02
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part03
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part04
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part05
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part06
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part07
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part08
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part09
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part10
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part11
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part12
https://soundcloud.com/charlotteandthefakes/imranandbrian31052012part13
As I understand it the request was not about anyone’s tax affairs, it was about the actions of the First Minister.
In addition, it is perfectly acceptable for an FOI request to be dealt with in parts. So some information can be revealed, whilst other parts are withheld because of taxpayer confidentiality.
TU + CG + CW ? Tape 3 – .6.25 mins
Sam said to ChipmOnk on Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 13:56
1. HMRC will not disclose or discuss any other parties tax affairs.
________________________________________________________________
However a letter of consent to disclose would enable a discussion to take place.
http://i.imgur.com/Fx9b8e3.jpg
new tape 1:
Paraphrasing…
…50 million…but with Ibrox “developed out” 250 million…….
tape 3
CW – what we dont want is someone coming out of the woodwork later and saying they have been shafted, it would be bad publicity 🙂 🙂
FM ?
Sorry if it’s obvious.
Some juicy extracts for those not able to listen ….
Pension fund trustees being changed today to accomodate pension funds monies …. (31/5/2012)
[ newtz ….. What !!!!!! ….. have notice CW like of pension Funds …… #NotAnotherOne …. ]]
TU are owed their money …. they will get that back in Oct …. job done ….
Everybody makes their money ….
[ newtz ….. have already figured that one out … Octopus/TU …… St James Place …. the big losers]
CW – “Some investors won’t go down as well as others …….If they find them … ha ha … ”
CG has told them I have raised £25m … I need £12m (£8m for deal … 4m for running until ST revenue) ….. but have given £17m back …………. all are gobsmacked …..
[ newtz: do the math Charles ….. ! ]
IA ….. CG should know when to shut it …. he never knows …..
David Martins is bad bad news …. he had police investigate ….. he’s got to go … now !
[newtz ….. worth listening to again …. and again to figure some other stuff out ]
…. paints a different perspective of IA attidude to CG ….. maybe playing to CW …. but clearly has concerns
@Charlotte …
Useful if …. occassionaly …. if one of us has picked up something key ….. then to indicate so …
There is so much info and many threads to pick up on ….
Too Easiy to jump to next juicy morsel and forget to follow up ….
Thanks in advance
🙂
x
chipm0nk says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 14:36
—————————————–
FM ……………. First Minister ………………!
Wow …… now that’s a very good point …… pressure can be asserted ….. with the right people on board ……. might like to contact GG ….. !
Thanks C
x
just on the second portion…. the word I’m hearing a lot is “exploited”….
rangers brand, under exploited…..
Rafat Ali Rizvi, 49, who grew up and went to university in the UK, has been accused of stealing assets from Bank Century after it was rescued from collapse by the state in November 2008 with $670m (£430m) of taxpayers’ money.
Interpol has issued an arrest warrant for Mr Rizvi at Indonesia’s request but he remains at large, splitting his time between the UK, where he has a property on London’s Park Lane, and Singapore. Neither country has an extradition agreement with Indonesia.
Mr Rivzi, believed to be worth around $600m, protests his innocence but friends say he fears standing trial in Indonesia because the Bank Century case has become highly political. Investigations have been launched into the original bail-out as well as alleged corruption surrounding the case.
According to Mr Rivzi’s lawyers, he believes he will be made a scapegoat for the bank’s failure.
Mr Rivzi was a major shareholder in Bank Century alongside Hesham al Warraq, a Saudi national, and Robert Tantular, a local entrepreneur. Mr Tantular has been jailed for five years on charges of not honouring a letter of agreement, but the government is going after Mr Rivzi and Mr al Warraq, who is also at large, on charges of corruption. His lawyers say that, if convicted, they could face the death penalty.
The three shareholders are accused of looting the bank after the bail out. According to Indonesia’s Attorney General’s Office, Mr Rivzi and Mr Warraq stashed $1.4bn of distressed debt securities that the bank was holding for liquidity in accounts around the world.
Mr Rivzi claims he is the victim of “a xenophobic campaign to put the blame for the collapse onto the bank’s foreign owners”.
The two former colleagues are not fighting claims that there was a fraud at the bank but are arguing they were not the beneficiaries of the trusts at the centre of the allegations. In a cut-throat defence, they are blaming Mr Tantular.
They are both now on Interpol’s “red notice” wanted list and have had several of their bank accounts frozen under rules to prevent international money laundering.
The rescue of Bank Century has been highly controversial in Indonesia, with many in the country believing the taxpayers’ money could have been better used elsewhere. Bank Century was formed following a merger of three ailing banks in 2001.
end of tape two,…. imran to brian and craig, and I’m paraphrasing
me and brian will be your reps on the board, with no loyalty to charles (or charlie as imran calls him….)
Proof that CW is NOT a liar on tape 6 @ 3.00mins
“McCoist is useless, McCoist is feckin’ uselss”
FM makes sense , thanks.
However I’m struggling to understand the email.
Why would Rangers be looking for a letter allowing someone (redacted) to speak to HMRC and about what. Why would they need it from Collyer Bristow.
If Rangers need to talk to HMRC about their own affairs they can. The email is dated December 2011, they went into administration in February 2012.
I’m sure that Alex Thompson has heard these and more than likely has other information (god i hope something to do with the 5 way agreement) however with the legalities of journalism cannot print quite yet.
OT: Has anyone else’s wife or girlfriend got jealous or suspicious when you’re asked why your spending every so often looking at a website and your talking about this “woman” charlotte constantly?
😀 she’s convinced i’m having a sneaky affair, rather than reading all about sneaky affairs 😀
God there is a lot to get through here….see you all on the other side!!
Well having listened to these tapes What do we know for sure?
One thing that stands uncontested amid all the confusion, uncertainty, wheeling, dealing backstabbing, bitching. ‘he said, she said’, whataboutery …etc. a common thread running though things that seems to have united all of the disparate warring factions in this debacle, if you will, and that has become accepted as a self evident truth to all of the protagonists in this farce:
In the words of Craig Whyte (or Charles Green…) “McCoist if F.king useless!”
Sam says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 15:01
——————————————-
yes, Rizvi is the Indoneasian backer CW referred to in tapes ….. and C has kindly donated an email with his alias …..
Other character mentioned is Mr Hughes
currently under investigation by HMRC …… and a collleague of IA and BS
oh …. and Rangers made a strong rebuttal of his involvement last Nov’ ish
tape 5
its charles job to keep the supporters onside
what a job he done there 🙂
http://www.scribd.com/doc/146504920/Licence-Issues
tonto8on8his8high8horse says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 15:20
——————————————-
Yep ….
and thinks TSFM is a dating site ….. !
😮
What rank was the ‘match commander’ at Celtic park whom CW refers to as retired but a good replacement for David Martins as security chief at Ibrox?
And what kind of police officer would be such as to win the endorsement of someone like CW?
CF has released what is in my opinion, one of the best!
Mr Regan seeks approval from RFC on the SFAs position on the European licence issues.
He didnt get it. They were angry.
The Scunner and the boys from RFC took him out to dinner instead, Sorted.
THATS IT FOR ME, ENOUGH EVIDENCE FOR SR AND CO TO BE SACKED.
Part 8 . Minutes 5 to 8.
Chris Graham isn’t going to like it!
http://i.imgur.com/Fx9b8e3.jpg
this is the knub of the matter.
that letter has got “rangers” old logo and web address.
the operation didn’t go too well and the patient died.
and now – the sevco franchise – are ALLOWED to use the SAME logo and web address
and are allowed to sy they are the SAME “rangers”
ironically, this letter was for HMRC.
WHY CAN’T HMRC and every other creditor ask for the debt they are OWED by “rangers”
…to be PAID in FULL, as it is apparently – THE SAME RANGERS !!!!!!!!!!!
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR – FFS
http://www.scribd.com/doc/146504920/Licence-Issues
wtf???
timabhouy says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 15:44
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This is getting rather tasty. On the assumption the e-mail is genuine, the SFA have asked Rangers to approve the wording of a media release, and then gone on to dine out with the club to discuss things. Why do I so hope Craigy boy had the voice recorder switched on over dinner? Perhaps Stewart and Campbell might not be enjoying the nice weather as much as we are due to pressing worries and desperate attempts to recall in detail exactly what was discussed that cosy December evening in the private dining area. I bet they weren’t talking about what they’d written in their letters to Santa!
Surely there must be a journalist somewhere who has the backbone to demand a comment from the SFA on this one.
timabhouy says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 15:44
http://www.scribd.com/doc/146504920/Licence-Issues
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If Regan and Ogilvie don’t go after this then the game is well and truly finished in Scotland.
Now will the Rat Pack ask the bloody questions ?
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 12m
Employer Alert: Huffy Jim Traynor talks to others if things don’t go his own way. http://i.imgur.com/MnBFMTk.jpg
Someone should really go on ‘The Rangers’ fans websites and post the links that are being supplied here. Surely even they are not that dense that they would dismiss this now.
However what we are seeing here is a group of people who work, sorry operate, on the very fringes of what is legal while at the same time sucking in the gullible and wannabes.
Unless there is a direct threat to the SFA over this debacle it will continue to rumble on. It is only when there is a choice between saving themselves or their love child that they will act and since no one in the media is willing to go on the record and bring this story into the public domain then the SFA can sleep in their beds.
We all know that something is far wrong here although we do not yet understand the full depth of the deception that has been perpetrated.
The only thing that can really bring this house down is the unwinding of the asset sale. This would send the message to the business community that there is more to this than meets the eye.
It would bring the IPO under intense scrutiny.
It would also be impossible for the SFA to not act because it would end up back with the previous owner who has been banned from participation in the sport.
That is me wishful thinking however as I do not think this will happen. There is far too much now at stake for so many people for this juggernaut to be halted. And by that I mean the political and legal establishment. There would have to be an explosive development for these guys to run for cover otherwise I’m sure they are going to brass it out.
There is no ‘dignity’ in cheating the public and then ultimately your own fans.
It is simply dishonest not the best.
upthehoops says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:00
0 0 Rate This
timabhouy says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 15:44
============================================
This is getting rather tasty. On the assumption the e-mail is genuine, the SFA have asked Rangers to approve the wording of a media release, and then gone on to dine out with the club to discuss things. Why do I so hope Craigy boy had the voice recorder switched on over dinner?
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i think its 100% he has
as he has recorded everything else
Will someone keep hard copies of these, just in case!
If Craig Whyte recorded his meetings with Green, Ahmad, Stockbridge, Paul Clark et al it is surely a reasonable bet that he recorded other meeting as well.
For example with the SFA, the Rangers management, other board members
justshatered says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:08
Someone should really go on ‘The Rangers’ fans websites and post the links that are being supplied here. Surely even they are not that dense that they would dismiss this now.
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RM thinks the tapes are false and are edited. Heads still in the sand I’m afraid
justshatered says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:08
0 0 Rate This
Someone should really go on ‘The Rangers’ fans websites and post the links that are being supplied here. Surely even they are not that dense that they would dismiss this now.
__________
some of them have been posted on FF and been dismissed as old news and mischief making by whyte and nothing to do with their glorious march back to the top
The good people on follow follow fail to see how any of this affects the club. It’s all in the past and has nothing to do with them.
It is actually all “tarriers” trying to cause mischief.
at the start of tape 8 whyte
McCoists effing useless 750k a year i wouldnt pay him 75k a year he would be on the list to go
Slightly off topic but I see Kilmarnock have been found guilty of failing to ensure that Kenny Shiels complies with Scottish Football Association protocol. Would it have been better if Shiels had accused the SFA of stealing money from his club on a live radio show? After all, that is an offence which carries no punishment for the perpetrator or his club.
tape 8, 6:18
cw on ebt’s”….but hmrc said to me, we will never settle this. if you win the case in the first tier tribunal, we will appeal, appeal and appeal again, they were never… they just thought it was out and out fraud….”
Charlotte…if you are listening…what I want to hear is the tape where Craigy told the SFA/SPL that the old Rangers were busted back in October 2011….and where they told him to keep the club going by whatever means were necessary…….I am sure that this must exist…go on….post it and blow the whole thing out of the water…..
CW has played a blinder. The recordings reveal a persistent habit of betrayal down Govan way. The only point under discussion appears to be how much money can be wrung out of the franchise. Even the most deluded supporter must be realising how they’ve been taken to the cleaners and that CG was planning to do exactly the same thing.
There appears to be a general air of relief that the EGM will not now go ahead as a result of a board appointment, surely this would have been the golden opportunity to begin ‘the cleansing’ that Ally wished for?
Spiv “business” thinking – top heavy doesn’t cover it – their next financial accounts should be v interesting.
peterjung1 says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:29
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I think it’s reasonable to assume we are building up towards hearing some conversations between Craigy boy and the SFA. 🙂
Have emailed Stewart Regan re the leaked sequence of emails. Not holding my breath.
Have downloaded the last few days’ recordings and scribd docs. Easy to download soundcloud recordings by going to http://www.sounddrain.com/
If you want to download the audio you can also use this firefox add-on
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/video-downloadhelper/
upthehoops says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:20
Slightly off topic but I see Kilmarnock have been found guilty of failing to ensure that Kenny Shiels complies with Scottish Football Association protocol. Would it have been better if Shiels had accused the SFA of stealing money from his club on a live radio show? After all, that is an offence which carries no punishment for the perpetrator or his club.
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When is the SFA hearing due for Craig Mather after the threats he was issuing the other day? Or is there an SFA protocol covering the right way to intimidate your fellow members of the footballing community?
tonto8on8his8high8horse says:
Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 15:20
Re suspicious wife’s. I do get moaned at and the only occasion I have to explain things is when Match.com comes up, Mullach I believe has a similar issue 🙂