The Existence of Laws

A Blog by James Forrest for TSFM

I am a socialist, and as a socialist I believe in the fundamental goodness of people. Some people find that hard to believe when they read the stuff I write.

I published my first novel recently, on politics and the corrupting nature of it, and it is a deeply cynical book, a book where no-one has clean hands come the end. What has surprised some of those who’ve read it is that I didn’t focus on the lies and smears of the right, but the hypocrisy and deceit of those who claim to be of the left.

Corruption, you see, doesn’t respect political boundaries or points of view. It’s like rainwater. It finds every crack, and gets in there.

My political beliefs revolve around two apparently paradoxical elements; the belief in the inherent decency of people and the need for a strong, and powerful, state. I believe the second underpins the first, and this brings me into conflict with a lot of people, some on the left and some on the right. Too many people see the state as inherently evil, as something that interferes too much in the lives of ordinary people. As something suffocating.

Yet the state exists to protect us. It exists to provide a safety net. It exists to regulate and to oversee. If the state is made up of bad people, if the gears of society are captured by those with malicious or selfish intent, the results are obvious; war, corruption, chaos.

The vast majority of our problems in the modern age can be neatly summed up in two lines from Yeats’ poem “The Second Coming”, which I used to open my novel. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”

We live in a time when those who are protecting their own interests have assumed such power that they’ve cowed the rest of us. They have become a law unto themselves. They have changed the nature of the game, because they have sapped our will to the extent some barely put up a fight anymore. The weak get weaker, and the strong use their strength to crush the rest even more. It is a vicious struggle, a downward spiral.

Society is held together not only by the endeavour and common interests of its citizens but by a collection of laws. We elect the people who make those laws. They do so in our name, and we can remove that right every four years. That is a powerful thing, and we do not appreciate it enough. The present corruption exists because we allow it to exist.

The people around me continue to puzzle over my uncommon interest in the affairs of a football club on the west of Glasgow. My own club plays in the east end. I tell those who ask that my primary interest in the goings-on at the club calling itself Rangers is no longer about football; how could it be, after all? With promotion this year they are still a full two divisions below us, emasculated, skint, weak and unstable. If we were fortunate enough to draw them in cup competition the match would be over, as a tie, by the halfway point … in the first half.

In footballing terms they are an utter irrelevance.

Rangers is more than a football club to me. They are a symbol. Their unfolding calamity is an on-going outrage. What is happening there, what is being allowed to happen, is an offense to decency. It is a stain on the face of our country.

In short, it is a scandal. It is a scandal without parallel in sport.

Yet it’s not just a sports story either. If it was, I might not be so focussed on it. What is happening at Rangers is a colossal failure of governance. It is a damning indictment against the very people who are supposed to oversee our game. It is a disgraceful abrogation of responsibility from those at the top, those who claim to be “running things.”

If this is not a failure of governance it is a result of corruption at the heart of our national sport. It says they are bought and paid for, and I will say no such thing here.

So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. We’ll say instead that what they are is weak, indecisive, inept and disconnected from reality.

It reminds me of our political class, which has become insular and ignorant about what the public wants, and what it needs. It’s not a wonder parties like UKIP can achieve national vote shares of 25% at local elections. Nigel Farage strikes me as a dog-whistle politician, the kind who knows how to appeal to a select group of voters. He is little different to Charles Green, the man who beguiled Rangers fans into handing over large amounts of money, because he was “standing up for the club.” It is easy to do what he did, easy to do what Farage is doing.

Real leadership requires toughness. Say what you like about the Tories, but they have that in spades. Yeats was right about the worst being full of passionate intensity. Green was. Farage is. Cameron and Osborne personify it in their political outlook.

It is easy to be cowed by blunt force politics, and by “tough talking Yorkshire men” and venomous speeches about “strivers and skivers.” The politics of divide and conquer is the oldest form of politics there is, and it’s no surprise to see it practiced by some of the vested interests in the game here in Scotland. Yet, lest we forget … something significant happened last year. The maligned and the ignored, the weak and the voiceless found something they never realised they had. They discovered that, in a very real sense, the power was in their hands.

Last year, the fans rose up when the governing bodies and the media went all-out to save Rangers from the self-inflicted wounds caused by a decade of cheating, malpractice and ineptitude. I have no problem calling that what it was.

What happened at Rangers seemed incredible, but it was all too predictable, and some of us had been talking about it for years before it hit. The Association seemed caught in the headlights but it would amaze me if they really were as insular and ignorant as they appeared. They must have known how bad the outlook was for Rangers. They just chose to ignore it.

They were aided and abetted by a thoroughly disreputable media, a collection of cowards and compromisers, charlatans and frauds, masquerading as journalists, but who long ago laid aside any claim to be bold investigators and settled for commenting on events as they unfolded. More often than not, with their ill-informed opinions, sometimes due to weaknesses in intellect and others wilfully ignorant, they failed even in that.

Entire newspapers became PR machines for crooks and swindlers. They aided in the scam because they didn’t do their jobs, some because they were lazy, some because they were incompetent and others because they wanted a seat at the table and were willing to sacrifice whatever integrity they once had in exchange for one.

That all of this was embraced by the Rangers fans is amazing to me. They trusted when they should have been asking questions. They closed their eyes, covered their ears and sang their battle tunes at the top of their voices so they wouldn’t have to hear anything they didn’t like. As incredible as I found it then, and still find it now – and now, even more so, when they have already seen the results of it once – I find it pathetic too, and I do feel pity for some of them.

A lot of these people are genuine football fans, and nothing more. They have no interest in the phony narrow nationalism, or the over-blown religion, or the notion of supremacy which manifested itself in a ludicrous statement from McCoist when interviewed recently on Sky.

Some of the Rangers fans look at their team of duds, kids and journeymen, they look at a boardroom of cowards and crooks, they look at a failing manager in his first (and last) job in the game and at a dark future and are not in the least bit impressed by, or interested in, the chest-out arrogance espoused in those ridiculous words “we are the people.” They know full well that their present crisis was made by men like McCoist, and they understand that pretentious posturing is not an act born of strength, but a scrambling around in the gutter, and a symptom of weakness.

They understand their position, and they hate it. And because they care about Rangers, because they value the club, because they cherish those things that made it a great Scottish institution, they want that back. They understand that before the Union Jack waving, Sash singing, poppy wearing, Nazi saluting, Orange element became the public face of their support Rangers meant something else, and that, above all things, is what pains them the most.

People do not hate Rangers. When the country appeared to turn its back last year, they were turning the back on favouritism and the bending of rules. Yet it would be a lie to say that there is not an element of dislike in the gleeful mockery of many rival fans.

But they don’t hate Rangers either. They hate the version of it around which a certain section of the support continues to dance. They hate the version which hates, and so too do many, many, many Rangers supporters, and they definitely deserve better.

David Murray chose not to openly challenge that version. Indeed, he encouraged certain strands of it to flourish and grow, with his “Britishness Days” and his effort to turn the club into the “team that supports the troops.” Other clubs have done as much, if not more, for the British Army than the one that plays out of Ibrox. Other clubs have given more money. Other clubs have lent their support to those on the front lines. They just chose to do it with respect, and with class, and with dignity. They chose to do it in private, understanding that there eventually comes a tipping point between looking after the ends of the soldiers and using them to promote your own.

The army has not battened on to Rangers. Rangers has battened on to them, and although it is unclear when an altruistic motive became darker, what started out as a gesture of solidarity is now used to entrench division and promote a notion of superiority.

Craig Whyte took over from Murray and immediately understood the lure of the “dog whistle.” He knew too that the media would accept whatever he told them, without question, and as he spoke up for “Rangers traditions” he made sure the lunatic fringe was well onside. He met face to face with the hard-core extremists in the support first and made them his praetorian guard. They spoke up for him until the day the club entered administration.

So, whereas Murray pandered to them and Whyte used them to further his own ends, it was only a matter of time before someone suggested to Charles Green that he could use the same tactics to win over the support. He went even further and blatantly promoted and encouraged this mind-set, and stoked the hate and nonsense to frightening new heights. The same people who cheered Whyte to the rafters jumped on board the Big Blue Bus and the results are clear.

Through all of it, the ordinary Rangers fan has seen his club buffered against the rocks, battered, broken, smashed to smithereens and sunk. Now there’s a big hole in the side of the lifeboat, and they are terrified that further tragedies await.

They are right to be concerned. Much of the media is still not telling them what they need to know. The people in charge of their club – the owners who have lied, the former hack who covered up the truth about Whyte and now acts as a mouthpiece for Green, the “club legends” who are content to sup with the devil and take his greasy coin when they should be standing toe-to-toe with the fans – are trying to silence those members of the press who do have facts to present.

How many times now have media outlets been banned from Ibrox for daring to report the truth? The manager who demanded the names of a committee last year defends those inside the walls who are desperate to keep secret the things that are going on. He is either an unprincipled coward, or he is, himself, bought and paid for. The fans suffer for it.

The “inconvenient truth” is still being kept from them, and this denies them any chance to play an active role in their club. Indeed, it is all too possible that they’ve passed a point of no return, and that their club is heading for a new liquidation event and it can no longer be stopped.

In either case, their power has been eroded to the point at which they must feel they have nothing left to do but stand back and watch what happens next.

They are wrong. I am a socialist. I believe in the inherent good of people. I think the ordinary decent Rangers fans are the only people left who can save their club … and the means by which they will do it is as simple as it could be.

They must stand up for “big government.” They must embrace the need for a “strong state.” They must lobby the SFA, and they must trust the SFA and they must get the SFA to follow its own rules and thereby save them from any further harm.

There is a tendency amongst some Celtic fans to see our governing bodies as pro-Rangers. If it is true then those running our game are ruining Scottish football without benefiting the thing they love more. The incalculable harm that has been done to Rangers in the last 20 some months is a direct result of the subservient media and the willingness of the football authorities to be “deaf, dumb and blind.” Those who believe this has actually helped the Ibrox club have not been paying attention in class. It has irrevocably scarred them, and it may yet have played a hand in destroying them once and for all, as a force if not as a club entirely.

For years, the SFA sat and did nothing as a club in their association operated a sectarian signing policy. They did nothing whilst the fans sang sectarian songs. In their failure to act they strengthened those elements of the Rangers support, instead of isolating, alienating and eventually helping to eliminate those who saw that club as a totem pole of division and hate. Their failure over EBT’s, and their lack of scrutiny, led to one of the greatest scandals in the history of sport, and I say that with no equivocation at all. The testimony of their registrations officer in the Lord Nimmo Smith investigation was a disgrace and in years to come it will rank as one of the most disreputable and damaging moments in the association’s history.

The most egregious failures of all were the failures in the so-called “fit and proper person” tests, which allowed first Whyte and then Charles Green to assume controlling positions at Ibrox. They will pass the buck and say the responsibility lies with the club itself, in much the same way as they are content to let the club investigate itself at the present time, but any neutral who looks at this stance knows it is unprincipled and spineless. It’s like letting the defence set the terms at a trial. It is foxes investigating the chicken coop.

It is a blueprint for corruption, and a recipe for disaster.

It is now too late for the SFA to declare Green “unfit”, as it was too late when they finally slapped that title on Craig Whyte. He and his allies own Rangers, and they control its destiny. They can push the club to the wall if they choose, in the final extremity, if that gets them what they want. The time for changing that is past. The damage has already been done. The barbarians are not at the gates. They are inside the walls, and sacking the city.

The SFA will be forced to punish Rangers for the sins of the owners, for the second time in as many years, and whilst it is right that the club face up to that, all the better to send a message to other clubs and other owners, the SFA cannot be allowed to slither off the hook here as though this was none of their doing. Green will skip off into the sunset. Craig Whyte has yet to pay his fine. These people never cared about Scottish football and they don’t care now.

The SFA are supposed to. Our governing body is supposed to govern, for the good of the whole game, and not as a support system for a single club. What they have allowed to happen on their watch is absolutely shameful and if the people responsible were men at all, with any sense of accountability, they would resign en masse.

They can pretend ignorance, but only the truly ignorant would accept that. Craig Whyte was not inside Ibrox a week before RTC and other sites were dismantling his entire business history, with some of the people here doing the work the SFA would not. Whyte himself claims to have made the governing bodies aware of the scale of what was facing the club, and they did nothing at all. Heads should have rolled a year ago.

In October of last year, on this very site, I posted an article in which I wrote:

“Which isn’t to say the due diligence matter isn’t worrying, because, of course, it is. Again, no-one is going to convince me that the SFA has conducted proper due diligence on Charles Green and his backers. No-one will convince me they are satisfied that this club is in safe hands, and that the game in this country will not be rocked by a further implosion at Ibrox. They failed to properly investigate Craig Whyte, because of lax regulations requiring disclosure from the club itself, regulations which are just a joke, but they can be forgiven for that as the press was talking sheer nonsense about him having billions at his disposal, and a lot of people (but not everyone!) were either convinced or wanted to be convinced by him.

To have witnessed what Whyte did, to have witnessed the Duff & Phelps “process” of finding a buyer, and having Green essentially emerge from nowhere, with a hundred unanswered questions as to his background and financing, for the SFA to have given this guy the go ahead, only for it to blow up in their faces later, would annihilate the credibility of the governing body and necessitate resignations at every level. There would be no hiding place.”

There are times when it is fun to be right, but this is not one of them. It is dispiriting and disquieting to have been so on the nose. It scares the Hell out of me, as someone who loves football in this country, to have seen this matter clearly when the people running our game apparently either did not or chose to ignore very real, very obvious, concerns. The Internet Bampots had no special insight or access to information that was denied those at the SFA. We just weren’t prepared to ignore it and pretend that it wasn’t there. There was too much at stake.

I have become convinced that things will never change until the Rangers supporters join us in demanding the full and unabridged truth here. They need to come out from under the bed, and confront their fears. They need to be willing to take the consequences, so that their club can emerge clean from this, and start again, with all this behind them.

And it can all happen with one simple thing. The application of the rules.

The existence of laws comes down to a simple principle; they protect society from those elements within it who are interested only in their own selfish ends. We may cry out at those rules and regulations we see as “restrictive”, but the law was not made to restrict our freedoms but to protect them. Had the SFA years ago acted against Rangers sectarian signing policy, and the songs from the stands, the club would not have mutated to the point where there was no help on hand when they needed it the most. Let’s not kid ourselves about this; Whyte and Green were only able to grab control because the club itself has a dreadful image which put off respectable and responsible buyers. The SFA could have helped change that perception years ago and did nothing.

The SFA could have conducted its own investigation into who Craig Whyte was. They could have asked David Murray for full disclosure when he was running up £80 million of debt, a sum of money that is beyond belief for a single club in a small provincial backwater league. Had they had the guts to do that the club would never have spent itself into oblivion and forced the hand of Lloyds, which led indirectly to their ignominious end.

The SFA could have fully investigated Charles Green and the means by which he took control, instead of rushing through a license. His emergence at the last minute was transparently suspicious and designed to force them into a quick decision, but they did not have to bow to that pressure by making one, without being in possession of the facts, as it is now 100% clear they were not.

Had they asked for every document, had they insisted on legal affidavits and personal securities from investors (and this would have been perfectly legitimate and is common place in other licensing areas) none of this would have come to pass. After Craig Whyte they had a moral responsibility to the rest of the game to get this one right and their failure is without parallel in the history of Scottish football.

As the club hurtles towards a new abyss, names are cropping up which should send a shudder down the spines of every honest, genuine supporter of not only Rangers but every team in the land. The SFA claims that a strong Rangers is essential for the sake of Scottish football, but they have been extraordinarily lax in protecting that club, and therefore the game, from destructive elements. Craig Whyte and Charles Green had dubious personal histories, and the acquisition of the club itself was mired in controversy and scandal. Yet it was allowed.

Neither Green nor Whyte were known to have operated outside the law, yet neither was worthy of trust or stood up to scrutiny. Neither man should ever have been granted the status as fit and proper persons to assume a role in our national sport, and if it is true of them what can we say about the three men who are, presently, being touted as the Great White Hopes for a bright, new Rangers future; Dave King and the Easdale brothers?

King recently cut a deal with the South African government over an on-going dispute over taxes. In other words, he pled guilty and accepted the central plank of their argument; that for years he was engaged in wilfully with-holding vast revenues from their Treasury. The media does not like to put it like that, and the SFA seems willing to ignore it utterly, and this would be scandalous enough. But it does not stop there. HRMC rules – as well as the SFA’s own governance documents – actually bar him from serving on the board of the new club.

Last but not least, aside from being an admitted tax cheat, King is also awaiting trial in South Africa, having been indicted for corruption, forgery and fraud – 300 charges in total. Yet as recently as last week, we were told that the Association was willing to look at him and consider representations from his lawyers. This is almost beyond belief.

If Dave King’s position is untenable, and he is yet to be convicted of a crime, what can we say about the position of the Easdale’s? One of the two brothers, Sandy, has already served jail time. He is a convicted criminal, a fraudster nonetheless, who’s “victim” was the same Treasury who are appealing one case involving the old club and liquidated it entirely over another. This is precisely the kind of “businessman” the fit and proper person test was supposed to weed out, and if the SFA holds its nose here the reek will stink out the halls at Hampden for decades. If King or the Easdale’s are judged fit and proper, then who exactly is the test for? What exactly do you have to do to fail it? How do we explain the existence of laws, when these are not applied?

Pascal says “Law without force is impotent.” The SFA’s weakness has allowed one version of Rangers to destroy itself, and has allowed an existential risk to another. If the next power at Rangers resides in South Africa or Greenock I can say with some certainty that the Association is engaged in an even more dangerous roll of the dice, because the surfacing of fresh scandal will be an ever present risk, and will be of the sort no-one will survive.

The damage to Scottish football will take years to heal. The Scottish game has been through enough trauma. It does not need more. It barely survived the last calamity to hit Rangers. The rest of us should not be forced to pay the price of the next one.

The greater damage will be done to Rangers itself. If the Green crisis ends in another collapse – as it well might; another administration event is a certainty, and another liquidation is a much more likely prospect than it was before 14 February 2012 – the club will once again have to start from the bottom, and this time the reputational damage will be impossible to repair. The club faces internal strife, sporting sanctions, and criminal investigations. The last takeover might be declared a fraud. the Whyte takeover will almost certainly be. The share issue might be invalid, as well as criminal, and the people involved may well end up in jail. Lawsuits could follow from investors, there could be as yet unknown consequences from the Upper Tier Tax Tribunal (thank you Brogan Rogan for pointing out what those might be) and a host of other issues.

Rangers fans must be the loudest voices here. How do you want the world to view your club in years to come? Do you want one to be proud of, or one forever associated with the shame and disgrace of these days gone by? The one which bailed out on its tax obligations. The one with supporters who disgrace your very name. The one which allowed Whyte and Green to take you to the cleaners and send you to the wall. The one which handed over control to one convicted criminal and another awaiting trial. Do you want to be reborn clean, or mired in the muck?

David Murray destroyed your financial stability. He made it so no bank would issue you a line of credit and no investor of note wanted to buy. Craig Whyte liquidated you. Charles Green has cast the future of the Newco into doubt and acted in a manner which has annihilated your credibility with the financial markets for decades to come.

Between these three men, they have taken everything from you, and the press and the people who run the game here, as well as some of your own blindly ignorant fans, have allowed them to do all this and more. Now they conspire to hand the keys to Ibrox to other men of questionable character, who will wreck further havoc on the reputation of the club.

The Scottish Football Association has damaged the game it was supposed to protect, but above all else their greatest failure of governance was a failure to protect one of its biggest clubs from its own excesses and those of its owners.

Rangers fans, the SFA have betrayed your trust, more than the trust of any other club. What you must insist on now is full disclosure and transparency from the powers that be in Hampden. The SFA has to end the charade of allowing your club to handle this in-house. They must hand everything over to an outside agency – whether a legal one, or a footballing body like UEFA – and they must demand co-operation and answers, and threaten to withhold the license if they don’t get them.

You must not be afraid of that. You must embrace it. The men with their hands on the gears at Ibrox are motivated by money, and nothing more. If the license is withdrawn their “investments” are worthless. They cannot risk that.

You must demand that the rules on fit and proper persons are applied, and where necessary even made stronger, to prevent your club falling into unclean hands. You must demand that they protect your reputation from further damage, by getting this all out there and acting accordingly, even if that means your club does not play football for at least a year.

You must be willing to suck it all up, knowing that what will emerge is a Rangers which has been cleansed and moves forward with honour, and dignity, led by custodians who treasure it rather than those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

The Rangers Standard has recently emerged as a genuine voice for those in your support who are sick and tired of what Rangers has become, and want it restored to something that is worthy of the love and respect in which you hold it. On that website, there are discussions about the kind of club you seek to be and about whether the institution of Rangers is about more than just football.

If that’s how you feel about it then you know it is about more than how many titles the club can claim, about more than just results on the park, about more than just the game. Rangers, like Celtic, is an idea. It has to be something you are proud of.

I am a socialist, but one with a fevered imagination and a tendency to write very dark things. This piece won’t have been good reading for some of you (perhaps all of you haha!) but I think there’s more hope in here than in other things I’ve written.

In spite of everything that’s come to pass, I still believe. I believe in Scottish football. I believe in our system of football governance, even if those who are working in it are failing on some level.

In society, as much as we strain against them, laws exist for our protection. To fail to enforce them is to leave us at the mercy of those elements who would do us harm. The rules of football ensure the protection of all clubs, not just a few.

The failure to enforce the rules has never had graver consequences than here in Scotland.  The irony is that bending and breaking them has hurt the one club those violations were designed to help. It cannot be allowed to happen again.

The rules must be applied without fear or favour.

The best must find their conviction, and their passionate intensity once more.

James is a co-editor of the On Fields of Green Blog http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/

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Tom Byrne

About Trisidium

Trisidium is a Dunblane businessman with a keen interest in Scottish Football. He is a Celtic fan, although the demands of modern-day parenting have seen him less at games and more as a taxi service for his kids.

5,802 thoughts on “The Existence of Laws


  1. upthehoops says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:37
    peterjung1 says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:29
    =======================================
    I think it’s reasonable to assume we are building up towards hearing some conversations between Craigy boy and the SFA.
    ___________________________

    Waiting with baited breath…………….


  2. briggsbhoy says:
    Re suspicious wife’s.
    _________________________________________________________________________

    You think you have it tough?……it is 1am in the morning here I am getting

    ….”What the f***k are you doing on that damn internet at this time…” …..paraphrased from Korean you understand….


  3. TW (@tartanwulver) says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:44

    0

    0

    Rate This

    ______________________________________________

    When is the SFA hearing due for Craig Mather after the threats he was issuing the other day? Or is there an SFA protocol covering the right way to intimidate your fellow members of the footballing community?

    ___________________________________

    Obvious: The SFA were going to issue a public statement explaining why Mather’s statement was actually perfectly all right, but when they sent it to TRFC for pre-release approval, their PR rep didn’t agree with the wording and threw the toys out of the pram, so they agreed not to comment.
    SFA will be meeting TRFC for a dinner to discuss next moves on this in about a fortnight.

    ….innit!


  4. …While were on SFA disciplinary path…. isn’t it about time the SFA had a go at Charles ‘foo Kin’ Green and other previous and current members of the RFC board for swearing within the vicinity of an open microphone which is recording? A heinous and premedicated crime that brings the game into disrepute.
    More serious than cheating on tax, fielding ineligible players, or going bust and shafting creditors to the tune of millions, incitement to breach the peace (who are these people?), etc. obviously!


  5. RIFC board. an honest Spelling mistake, not an acceptance of RFC survival , I stress! (the latter would be a smelling pistake, rather)


  6. CW telling BS that EVERY EBT had a side letter and that all were contractual!!!


  7. “In light of persistent speculation across all media, the Scottish FA would …”

    Does anyone recall the press grilling SR on the euro licence ??
    anyone, anyone, Bueller ??


  8. peterjung1 says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:57

    Your a poor Seoul 🙂


  9. I had lost some interest in the Scotish team in recent years – but my current abject apathy has been created in the last couple of years, due to the SFA’s incompetence / corruption wrt TRFC.

    I feel that supporting the Scottish team is supporting the current SFA regime: Ogilvie, Regan et al. I appreciate that is probably unfair on the Scottish team and players – but can’t help it. 🙄

    As someone mentioned earlier, IMO the only time the SFA hierarchy will do the right thing about anything – is when the national team plays in front of an empty Hampden.

    Only then will the SFA accept questions, and provide some answers to the fans.

    …or unless CF can help the situation with a few knockout punches !


  10. Craigie boy clearly trusts no one and has insured his every stroke with recordings……would it be too much to hope he has a few little snippets of his conversations with Minty……………hhhhhhmmmmmm now that would be fun………………………..


  11. upthehoops says:

    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:20
    ——————————————-
    Did they (SFA) clear that with Rangers before announcing ……… I demand to know …. !


  12. TW (@tartanwulver) says:

    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:44
    ———————————————-
    SFA have probably invited Mather to a dinner evening where they might discuss (with mathers approval) his statements and seek approval or otherwise to issue a response any appropriate wording.


  13. resin_lab_dog says:

    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 16:57
    ——————————————–
    LOL …. had’nt read that before last post ……. great minds ….. etc


  14. Anyone sense a SFA `Independent` inquiry coming on? You know – forensic cleansing and so on. Better still, one could be set-up on the SFAs behalf over evening dinner. Guaranteed results 😉


  15. resin_lab_dog says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 17:10

    Brilliant spoonerism!!!


  16. Well I’ve just had my first listen to the latest 13 audio clips.

    When are the MSM going to cover this stuff which really is dynamite – what’s the problem as they ran CWs earlier tapes?

    Obviously these tapes have got to be really listened to – one of my kids is a whizz with audio but he’s away on holiday or I would have got him to clean-up the tapes and make them a lot easier to hear.

    Still the whole plan is there as plain as the nose on my face. We have always said that the spivs were largely scuppered because Rangers weren’t kept in the SPL. Listening to the conversation it’s obvious that financially everything hinged on that being the case and and they were getting guarantees of this. That’s one bit I will listen to again in detail.

    But also interesting that Green was there just for the window dressing to flog the shares and keep the fans sweet but was never going to be there longer than 12 months and them Imran would emerge from the background and take over.

    And Stockbridge is sitting there dealing with Imran and CW in what sounds like me as the plot to keep Green under control. Of course perhaps it wasn’t just Green that was conning CW. But surely Stockbridge wouldn’t be involved with this as a Chartered Accountant – I mean he’s a professional person. Of course both Imran and Stockbridge were directors with Zeus so they had links.

    And Rafat is constantly mentioned as the really dangerous elephant in the room. Green obviously declared to the SFA he wasn’t involved with Whyte and from memory he was also questioned about Rafat because the SFA were aware of rumours last year that he was an investor. And of course we’ve always thought that the original investors probably had debentures most likely secured on the property and for the first time that I can remember we now have evidence that Debentures were being discussed in the presence of Imran, Stockbridge and CW.

    Obviously the line by CW that he wouldn’t pay McCoist £75k as a manager is a hoot but even funnier is him saying that the administration process was all that kept McCoist in his job.

    Does anyone know what the Sheffield United connection was? And I wonder if the Quatari connection is still on the go as they seemed to want to buy-out Rangers as sole owners for around £25 million.

    I reckon Rafat is still about and he could be Blue Pitch Holdings which takes us back to Chris Morgan not getting a seat on the board supposedly. If Blue Pitch Holdings is Rafat why would he back-down without being offered something else because he would have wanted his seat on the board to keep his investment safe. So is that Board seat just delayed or has a ‘sweetener’ been paid.

    And then we’ve got Rangers board room being swept for ‘bugs’ and MI6 apparently on-tap to deal with death threats. And was there a mention of Green’s brother being in charge of S Yorkshire cops with links to the spooks? Looks as thought the shirt deal isn’t what it’s cracked-up to be either.


  17. Oh and I forgot to add: Is StrathPol going to be happy about explaining why they were investigating CW on the say so of a presumably retired cop. I believe this kind of behaviour has led to a number of serving and ex London cops facing criminal charges.

    What’s worse how can they now investigate him after having apparently cleared him previously – albeit ‘unofficially’. Is Crown Office aware of this alleged previous inquiry into CW which of course might be standard operating procedure when a new owner takes over the Establishment club.


  18. Awesome …… so missed it first time …..
    Tape 8 …… 7:55

    Regarding finalising the …… ‘Patrick’ docs … (my terminology)

    CW …..Final things to get sorted …..
    IA …… “what is to get sorted, is the consideration for the debentures”

    That”s the key ……
    There is no evidence so far of the consideration paid to Sevco 5088 for the transfer of assets ….

    We have questioned this ….. It must exist ….. otherwise CW would have (almost) an open and shut case …..

    IA here acknowledges the requirement ….. (Yippee …. we have it on tape)

    I know it might seem like stating a nute point …… but it really is a key point …… was consideration paid for the debentures …..

    Was it coverted to shares ……..

    We have got to see these Patrick documents …..

    Charlotte …. ? …… please ! …….. pretty please …… !


  19. On the iPhone but is there a Facebook like function for TSFM? I can’t find one. It’s hitting the fan, I’m in Spain and the misses is playing candy crush on the iPad.


  20. newtz says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 18:45
    I know it might seem like stating a nute point …… but it really is a key point …… was consideration paid for the debentures ….. Was it coverted to shares ……..
    ===============================================================

    I’m thinking a bit differently. Again the debenture point is going to take careful listening and checking.

    But it sounds like you can have a set percentage of debentures depending on number of shares purchased. So the shares would be 1p shares and would eventually be converted to RIFC Plc shares. But I wonder whether the debentures would need to be transferred or not or stay with TRFCL. We have always been told that TRFCL holds the property in its name but as a subsidiary of RIFC Plc that ultimately owns the property.

    So a tight group from the original investing consortium have their ‘loans’ backed by debentures guaranteed on the property. They get paid-off when they come to sell their 1p shares and also when their loan is repaid plus interest.

    What we don’t know is the term of their loan and I wonder if their 1p shares are also subject to some kind of lock-in.

    I’m wondering if anyone good with accounts can look at the 6 month RIFC Plc statement and see whether there is anything there can throw a light on this or would it actually be shown more clearly in the TRFCL accounts when they are produced.


  21. Craig if your reading, I have no issue with Sevco 5088 playing in the SPL at Ibrox wearing blue, I do mind that happening with the SFA’s partnership and constant and irrevocable support. So if your tapes bring them all down, happy happy days.
    I only want openess and fairness for all.
    I do believe personally that a Euro league of sorts beckons and that Celtic will be involved. I can’t speak for Sevco

    Keep up the jolly good work, the tapes are hilarious. If there is one with CO or SR gonna let us ken like?

    🙂

    yours emotionally

    Mark


  22. Charlotte Fakeovers ‏@CharlotteFakes 4m

    Media House and Hay McKerron – your days are over. I think I’ll start with you Jack. Time to take your own medicine. #FreeTheMSM


  23. Stretching credibility here – let’s see – a debenture waiver [5m] including TU [27m] – under `assignees` – Alone – on discounted penny shares @ 1p – say released at a nominal 50p – would be 64m shares.

    Taking that forward at a nominal 30% of total say – that’s 200m shares – or a nominal 100m capitalisation?

    Doesn’t matter how you set / distrib the numbers – sums on tape are nonsense – and they must have known that.

    So what was really going on there? Double Dupery?
    Whatever it was or morphed to don`t look good. Not to worry though – they can look forward to financial accounts AIM required end May – Thanks tomdownathome Friday, June 7, 2013 at 20:01

    [and why do I have this nagging suspicion that lot are still in cahoots]


  24. http://www.scribd.com/doc/146504920/Licence-Issues

    Really interesting showing Regan at work and providing the cover for the European licence. I wonder if he ever asked HMRC to confirm what they thought the unpaid tax was.

    Nice of the SFA to ask Rangers permission before it can issue a press release. Now I can understand the silence from Hampden – Rangers is still obviously vetoing SFA Press Relases it doesn’t like.

    And then of course we lead back on to that dinner with CO, CW and Regan. I’m not a gambling man but I wonder what the betting is that Wee Craigie has a tape of that dinner. I wonder if CO and Regan can remember everything they said. Let’s hope it was just a cheap £80K night otherwise a surfeit of champagne to wash the succulent lamb down might have loosened lips.

    I think of HMS Dignity and wonder if that will fall victim to ‘Loose Lips Sink Ships’.


  25. The rotten hulk Ibrokes has taken a mighty broadside. The mast and tiller are gone the maindeck is awash.

    The ships cat is off in the only lifeboat.

    The crew are below decks playing cards and one just said “did anyone hear that”


  26. CtF – `Media House and Hay McKerron – your days are over. I think I’ll start with you Jack. Time to take your own medicine.`

    Charlotte – For a mo I thought you made and distributed headphones and popcorn – Now in Love x 😉


  27. Re CF disclosures re the SFA
    I would like to say I am shocked and surprised but quite frankly I am neither and that IMO sums up the SFA in this whole disgusting episode .
    Is there now really one single sevco fan who still believes in the “we hate the SFA ” smokescreen .
    I am still of the opinion that CW was sourced to liquidate the old club and get rid of Hector and then pass the tribute act on to the peepil who would have taken it off Minty’s hands debt free .
    These tapes obviously recorded by CW do not alter my opinion in fact they strengthen it .


  28. Mark (@awolz1) says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 19:11
    ===================================================

    I think it was Tape 2 where they talk about the ‘Ultimate Golden Ticket’ ie changing League and Europe was mentioned. Also the bit about a reserve team being placed in SFL3 which was probably planned to be elevated to the SPL when the Big Team went to Europe.

    And it sounds to me that the SFL3 deal – with no promotion for the reserve side – had been sounded out by the suits and given the nod. Not sure though if it had actually reached the handshake stage. What a surprise it must have been to them when fan power roared last year and it was the Big team that landed in SFL3.

    I don’t know if others picked up on the foreign player registration scam that apparently it’s a skoosh to get work permits for foreign players coming to Scotland as opposed to England. So CW explained that Rangers would bring them in and showcase them and sell them on at a tidy profit to the English Premier League.

    And then there was the clearest explanation by CW of how Rangers enjoyed a sporting advantage over every other Scottish club through the use of EBTs by being able to match English Premiership wages by saving on the tax payable. You would have thought that if Wee Craigie knew that – and when he arrived the EBT heyday was finished at Rangers – but CO didn’t.

    Sometimes I really do wonder if he is the best football administrator in the world. Just think instead of the SFA’s Bryson destroying the LNS then CO could have produced the vital evidence, which the SPL had failed to unearth, that the side letters did create an unfair sporting advantage.

    I’m sure a man with the integrity of CO would have been able to put aside his past association with Rangers never mind his EBT – but perhaps not as he seems to have developed deafness and blindness whenever E_B_T appeared anywhere and it’s still happening despite his absence from Rangers. Never mind I’m sure Wee Craigie’s audio of the dinner will help recall memories 🙂

    I always wondered why Rangers were so adamant that they weren’t going to take part in the LNS Inquiry. And I’ve suddenly realised that perhaps Stockbridge and Imran were worried that they might have to give evidence on oath whether they knew anything about EBTs.

    And, of course, they did when the former owner of the club told them back in May 2012 that ‘every single player had an EBT and side letter’. Was this information ever passed on to the TRFCL Board or even to the RIFC Plc Board? I am certain the issue must have been raised and I would have thought they had a duty to disclose their knowledge.

    Amazing though that people who didn’t even own the club knew about the EBT scam and yet the SFA and SPL were ignorant or was it wilfully blind?


  29. Up to date – Couple of simple observations
    Sun published an article late Thursday / Early Friday
    MSM black-out since – `nowt` `officially`
    Blimey!


  30. jonnyod

    Like you I remain of the opinion that CW was there as part of an overall process, with a view to a debt free Rangers playing in the SPL.

    However not as long term owner. As the person who did the dirty work, went away with a tidy amount of money, with the long term owners coming in later, and clean.


  31. ecobhoy says:

    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 19:10
    ——————————————
    ….. I’m all faked out at the mo …. just found out I totally missed out on tape #9 …… it’s explosive !

    Needs figuring out …… as twopanda says …… the numbers don’t add up


  32. jonnyod says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 19:52

    These tapes obviously recorded by CW do not alter my opinion in fact they strengthen it
    ===============================================================

    I think you’re totally correct. I actually accept CW’s annoyance that he ends up the bad guy when the club had been getting financially destroyed for 15 years and he turns-up to do a pre-pack and create a debt-free club and gets villified for not paying ‘buttons in tax’ and putting all of the Ticketus money towards clearing debt.

    I always thought he was there to return it to some strain of Blue Knight but caught the dreaded Rangeritis and got carried away and didn’t stick to the plan or timetable.


  33. Why do you suppose rangers didnt want regan to make any mention of the licence application.

    If the situation was as regan portrayed it then why would you worry about press questions or reaction.

    Heres why

    regans assertion that rangers had a “potential” £2.8M tax liability and because they were in discussion with hmrc then that meant it was ok to issue the licence.

    Absolute balderdash.

    Either regan has no grasp of the rules or was deliberately muddying the waters either way its a sacking offence.

    rangers had a £2.8M admitted liability not a potential liability therfore under the rules they should not have been issued with a licence the only point of discussion with hmrc was the penaly / interest that was being applied.

    Thats why rangers didn’t want it mentioned because all it would have taken is a phone call to uefa to verify that a licence cant be issued with an outstanding tax bill due.

    The baw would have been up on the slates an Celtic would and should have been Scotlands champions cup representative.


  34. The buttons in tax he didn’t pay were, if I remember correctly.

    The outstanding small tax case, which he took on, of about £3m.

    The PAYE NIC and VAT he didn’t pay of something like £9m.

    So well over £10m before looking at interest and penalties for the larger sum.

    That’s a shed load of buttons.

    On the “pre-pack”, I asked fairly recently. Why did they not go down that route. It would have made much more sense and would have been much more controllable.


  35. Oh and the Ticketus money clearing debt.

    As I recall, he didn’t clear the debt. He bought it, and the floating charge with it.

    So the club owed the same amount of money, just to his Wavetower company, rather than the bank.

    Remember, two hats, owner of the company but also major creditor.


  36. newtz says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 14:43

    Some juicy extracts for those not able to listen …. Pension fund trustees being changed today to accomodate pension funds monies …. (31/5/2012)
    ===========================================================

    That was bad enough but what was worse was that the new trustees had to sign an agreement to the change even before they became trustees. You would think that was illegal but sounds like it’s normal practice.

    And to think our retirement money is in these pension schemes – will there be anything there when people come to retire I’m beginning to wonder.


  37. twopanda says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 19:21
    ‘…Stretching credibility here – let’s see – a debenture waiver [5m] including TU [27m] – under `assignees` – Alone – on discounted penny shares @ 1p – say released at a nominal 50p – would be 64m shares…….So what was really going on there? Double Dupery?….’
    —–

    Much as I am enjoying listening in to the thieves’ kitchen, I confess that the detail of the financial conspiracy (or conspiracies- just how many plotters were there, and who at any one time was plotting against whom?) are beyond my understanding.

    The real meat for me so far ( always assuming that the tapes and documents are genuine) are

    – the documents showing the tie-in with Regan and Ogilvie ( were other members of the SFA Board aware?) on the licence issue, and the description of JT’s behaviour as a ‘journalist’

    and the positive assertions on tape by CW

    a) that every player over a period of years had an EBT with side-letter

    b) that HMRC had said they would appeal and keep on appealing if the decision of the FTTT went against them, and that he believed that that was because they felt the whole EBT thing was indeed out-and-out fraud

    c) that SDM had had such a cosy relationship with the Scottish MSM over 20 years that , whereas they were bast*rds to him (CW) , they protected SDM .

    There’s also been a bit of fun at the slagging -off of McCoist and of CG’s big mouth.

    I hope in the end that some real good will come out of Charlotte’s efforts ( if, of course, the docs and tapes are genuine).


  38. chipm0nk says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 20:21

    Oh and the Ticketus money clearing debt. As I recall, he didn’t clear the debt. He bought it, and the floating charge with it.

    So the club owed the same amount of money, just to his Wavetower company, rather than the bank. Remember, two hats, owner of the company but also major creditor.
    =============================================================

    Worth remembering though that he gave a Personal Indemnity to Ticketus which sounds as though it’s watertight unless he is declared bankrupt which he might not want at this stage in time.

    Liked the bit where Imran was thinking about doing more business with Ticketus in January – March 2013 to ease cash flow but even CW thought that too optimistic 🙂

    Although he did think other similar companies might cough-up.

    But the interesting thing about Imran’s timing means that they hadn’t figured on a December 2012 Flotation although I haven’t seen another date suggested. Seems to me it had to be December because they were fast running out of cash which we thought anyway but it’s nice to get a wee bit of confirmation.


  39. chipm0nk says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 20:19

    The buttons in tax he didn’t pay were, if I remember correctly. The outstanding small tax case, which he took on, of about £3m. The PAYE NIC and VAT he didn’t pay of something like £9m.

    So well over £10m before looking at interest and penalties for the larger sum. That’s a shed load of buttons. On the “pre-pack”, I asked fairly recently. Why did they not go down that route. It would have made much more sense and would have been much more controllable.
    =============================================================

    Everything’s relevant and I was meaning comparing it to the EBT case – £9 million is a mere bagatelle to spivs and hardly worth getting out of bed for 🙂

    CW actually says on the tape he got it wrong and should have gone for the pre-pack in the Autumn of 2011 which was his original plan. As I said earlier I think he caught Rangeritis and actually thought he might become the saviour of Ibrox. I actually think it’s that simple.


  40. http://www.scribd.com/doc/146504920/Licence-Issues

    explosive stuff !!!!!!!!!

    isn’t that the timeframe when CQN etc, were raising the issue that “rangers” should not be granted a licence as they were still due outstanding monies to the tax authorities, either by way of the big tax case, wee tax case, unpaid v.a.t, unpaid, N.i or whatever…

    they should not have been granted that licence ??!!


  41. His Personal Indemnity is probably worth about as much as the visible assets he has which they could attack to satisfy it.

    Remember this is a chap happy to disappear to Monaco (Costa Rica) if situations demands. A chap whose trade involves hiding assets to allow him to make such promises without any fear of actually losing anything.

    I still think Ticketus were onside because they believed that their rights to tickets they had paid for survived any insolvency, including liquidation. As Craig said, there would always be A Rangers, at Ibrox.

    The C of S seems to have fecked their plans up.


  42. chipm0nk
    Exactly CW was there to do a job that Minty could not face ,Minty says he was duped ,need I say more
    ecobhoy
    I believe CW thinks he will be revered in the years to come by the sevco 1,2,3,4,5, (who knows) support and IMO that is because he knows what the plan was from the start .Sally and the football supporters may have derailed it somewhat but with the help of ALL their friends in the right places they will get back on track .
    The SFA have now been totally discredited and should be cleared out of office the fact that they still have a man in charge who was a recipient of an EBT from the very club involved in this scandal really does beggar belief .
    The game in this country is finished as far as I am concerned and I really feel sorry for the rest of the clubs fans outside the tribute act ,their fans bemoan that they have done nothing wrong so why should they be punished ,well all I can say to that is WELCOME TO OUR WORLD


  43. jc – glad you`re back! – But no four expressos from previous 😉
    Will confess to comedic distraction by ephemeral stuff. You`re spot correct on holistic sat-nav – heartening


  44. ecobhoy says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 20:37

    —————————————-

    The reason I can’t go with that is that he would have to be an idiot.

    Huge unserviceable debts, outstanding EBT case, untenable business model, the Ticketus deal would have taken a huge chunk of the turnover before a ball was kicked.

    Rangers were beyond saving without the debt being wiped. The pre-pack was the way to do it.


  45. From the emails Charlotte titled ‘European Licence Issue’:-

    From: Ali RussellSent: 07 December 2011To: Stewart Regan; Andrew DicksonCc: Ramsay Smith(Ramsay@mediahouse.co.uk); Stephen Kerr (StephenKerr@rangers.co.uk)

    Subject: RE: PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIALStewart,Tried to phone you. Would prefer no comment or the following

    “We have looked at this matter and there is no issue with the licence granted to Rangers from the

    SFA.“

    —————————–

    I just wonder if there was a statement from the SFA at this time, regarding the European Licence; and if there was, was it along the above lines? Of course, RFC kindly offered the alternative of ‘no comment’.

    Strange how the RFC executives were less than happy with a statement from the SFA, with their reasoning, that all was well with their European License! Could it be that the information given to Regan et al was somewhat less than kosher, and they didn’t want anyone from HMRC to read it and say, ‘wait a minute, that’s not true’ (or information be leaked)? Perhaps they feared someone, like RTC/PMGB/Mark Daly/AT, might decide to investigate the circumstances surrounding it, and come up with evidence that even the SFA couldn’t ignore of inaccurate/untrue statements from RFC to the governing bodies.

    I think Charlotte has seriously upped the ante today, and the SFA celebrations over the great result last night might be cut short when they get their latest update from whoever is charged with keeping an eye on what the internet bampots are up to 🙂


  46. john clarke says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 20:22

    a) that every player over a period of years had an EBT with side-letter

    b) that HMRC had said they would appeal and keep on appealing if the decision of the FTTT went against them, and that he believed that that was because they felt the whole EBT thing was indeed out-and-out fraud
    ==========================================================

    And CW stated they were contractual payments and not discretionary – which of course meant that tax and NI was payable on them in his opinion. Seems a bit strange coming from CW but there you are.


  47. In BrianAndImranPart9, about 2 minutes in,
    CW mentions something that sounds like “the Tiffon Foundation” –

    has this name come up before?

    Also, Imran, who’s supposed to be a financial genius, seems to struggle a bit with arithmetic,
    “What’s five time two and a half?”


  48. ecobhoy
    As you say CW stated he should have gone for the pre pack in the Autumn 2011 ,
    Was it not Oct 2011 CW said he told the SPL/SFA that they had run out of cash and do you think that it was this meeting that changed CWs mind on an Autumn pre pack .
    There is also something else that bothers me that season
    Sevco fans often ask what happened to the old clubs 2nd place prize prise money ,in fact CG claims they were stolen .
    What if the prize money was advanced to aid the old club getting to the end of the season ,has CW said it was stolen ,we should know of course but as it was in the infamous 5 way agreement we are deemed not to be worthy of knowing were nearly £2m pounds from our game ended up .


  49. chipm0nk says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013

    ecobhoy says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 20:37

    —————————————-

    The reason I can’t go with that is that he would have to be an idiot. Huge unserviceable debts, outstanding EBT case, untenable business model, the Ticketus deal would have taken a huge chunk of the turnover before a ball was kicked.

    Rangers were beyond saving without the debt being wiped. The pre-pack was the way to do it.
    =================================================================
    chipm0nk – I totally agree with you but you posed the question why didn’t he go from the pre-pack when he knew the best time to do so. The more I see of CW the less I think he’s an idiot and that was my starting point possibly 18 months ago.

    I cannot come up with a logical explanation as to why he carried on but it was obvious from the conversation with Imran that Green was attempting to renage on an earlier promise to CW that Ticketus would be repaid out of the Rangers sale deal over an extended period and that CW’s Personal Indemnity wouldn’t be called.

    We also don’t have all the details concerning business and financial pressures that CW was under so it’s difficult to be sure why he acted in what seems to be an irrational manner. And the marital break-up shouldn’t be discounted either as that wouldn’t have helped rational thinking.

    It must have been very seductive to step outside reality and bathe in the adulation of 50,000 Rangers supporters while sitting in the Directors’ Box at Ibrox never mind the 500 million worldwide fans. I’m sure it would turn most heads and spivs want to be loved as well 🙂


  50. ecobhoy says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 20:37
    CW actually says on the tape he got it wrong and should have gone for the pre-pack in the Autumn of 2011 which was his original plan. As I said earlier I think he caught Rangeritis and actually thought he might become the savior of Ibrox. I actually think it’s that simple.
    __
    Howsabout – HMRC were going to intervene in any admin application – and SDM intelligent [which true]


  51. allyjambo
    A poster on here and CQN by the name of Auldheid has done excellent work on that very subject and I believe he has asked the SFA for clarity on more than one occasion ,maybe one of his numerous replies from the honest peepil at the 6th floor has the ragers approved reply .


  52. There’s an interesting bit late on where craig claims that he was in contact with HMRC re the PAYE/NIC and they were happy to let it rollover through the january transfer window (implyng that he had their assent to continue trading while insolvent) to see if they could sell some players in an effort to payoff Tax owed…..


  53. ianagain says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 19:37
    14 1 Rate This
    The rotten hulk Ibrokes has taken a mighty broadside. The mast and tiller are gone the maindeck is awash.

    The ships cat is off in the only lifeboat.

    The crew are below decks playing cards and one just said “did anyone hear that”

    —————–

    Arrr, Ian me lad, it be my professional opinion that the ship be doomed!
    Now, where’s that black spot?


  54. jonnyod says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 21:06
    ecobhoy

    Was it not Oct 2011 CW said he told the SPL/SFA that they had run out of cash and do you think that it was this meeting that changed CWs mind on an Autumn pre pack .

    Sevco fans often ask what happened to the old clubs 2nd place prize prise money ,in fact CG claims they were stolen. What if the prize money was advanced to aid the old club getting to the end of the season.

    But as it was in the infamous 5 way agreement we are deemed not to be worthy of knowing were nearly £2m pounds from our game ended up.

    =================================================================

    Good points. The first one is worth checking back on cuttings but I have a memory trace of JT claiming that he and I think Jackson told the SFA in the summer of 2011 – maybe July/August – that CW was spending the tax and NI on running the club and it was financially doomed.

    We should be able to spot the £2 million in the SPL accounts I would have thought but I’d never actually thought before about the possibility the money could be advanced. What might mitigate against it was if Rangers was in such a bad financial position and had admitted it would the SPL have advanced the money knowing Rangers might go burst and they would have to cough-up another £2 million to whatever club actually cam second. Not sure what they would have done and who would have had to agree to it vis a vis the league executive, board or individual clubs.

    But do we actually know anything for a fact that was in the 5-way agreement. How do we know that the draft which was released isn’t just a fake. That’s one of the reasons I’m keen to see what CF supplies.


  55. ecobhoy says:

    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 18:31

    …But surely Stockbridge wouldn’t be involved with this as a Chartered Accountant – I mean he’s a professional person.

    =======================================================================

    Ecobhoy….please please please please please….the perception that anyone who purports to be a “Chartered Accountant” or “Professional person” must surely be dismissed, particularly in the post 2008 financial meltdown.

    In my own career, I have known some so called Chartered Accountants who have either enjoyed an expenses paid lengthy holiday as a guest of HM Prison Service…or certainly should have!

    At least two of the “failed” Scottish banks were headed by such individuals and some of the most devious perpetrators of today’s offshore vehicles have been devised by such “professionals”.

    Whether they be members of ICAS or ICAEW it matters not a jot…these guys are “driven”, by their own or others’ greed…to the total exclusion of professional or accepted morality or ethics.


  56. ecobhoy says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 21:11

    Fair points, he does come across as something of a sociopath. Maybe we shouldn’t look for rational explanations all of the time.

    He may also have gotten caught up in moments like this and forgotten that there was no proper business model in place without cheating and stealing.

    http://i.imgur.com/e2rK5NJ.jpg


  57. Strangely when you put the words “Rangers Europe” into the SFA website absolutely nothing as in zero comes up?
    Is someone working OT tonight?


  58. twopanda says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 21:11

    ecobhoy says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 20:37
    CW actually says on the tape he got it wrong and should have gone for the pre-pack in the Autumn of 2011 which was his original plan. As I said earlier I think he caught Rangeritis and actually thought he might become the savior of Ibrox. I actually think it’s that simple.
    __
    Howsabout – HMRC were going to intervene in any admin application – and SDM intelligent [which true]
    ======================================================================

    That’s definitely a possibility but I have the feeling that if that had been the case he might well have mentioned it as a defence of his position to Imran as, from memory, he didn’t advance any reason why he didn’t go for the pre-pack. Maybe when I relisten to the clips there might be more to pick-up – there usually is on a 2nd listen. That’s why I like hearing what other people are thinking as it helps point me in directions that haven’t previously crossed my mind before I listen again.


  59. twopanda says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 19:21

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    Doesn’t matter how you set / distrib the numbers – sums on tape are nonsense – and they must have known that.

    __________________________________________

    They may look like a nonsense now, but not necessarily so then: at the point this recording was made:

    SPL licence/share intact (TV revenues projected: say £3m?)
    Playing squad still under contract (sell valuable ones off for £5-15m, sack the duds, bring in cheap talent to shopwindow and sell on (remember the difficulty English clubs were having with work permits that wasn’t applying to Scot’s ones? An interesting fishy element there worthy of further probing!)
    Europe still a possibility (Up to £20m up for grabs there).
    £10m in ST money about to roll in.
    SFA/SPL bending over backwards to keep them afloat (regulatory capture achieved via CO, and ‘armageddon’ narrative).
    Club about to emerge completely otherwise free!
    Bears ready to be milked (club needs your investment now to survive etc!)
    Ticketus are down £27m with no comeback on the club.
    Qatari’s seen to be waiting in the wings to buy for £30m.
    Succulent Lamb serving it up to the bears – telling them what they want to hear to sell copy, on message and largely house trained, but crapping on next doors garden upon command.

    The only things thet went badly wrong for them:
    (i)Players refusing to TUPE (rightly) –> one set of people standing up and refusing to be shafted!
    (ii) Fans revolt. Fans of every other club in scotland & the chiefs of the SFL clubs standing up and refusing to be shafted.

    That’s not what they expected at all. No siree. And without RTC, AT, PMG shining a light, it quite possibly would not have happened.


  60. essexbeancounter says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 21:25
    ========================================================

    Sometimes I do irony, sometimes my sense of humour rears its twisted head, sometimes there are different ways of saying things that gets a message across and sometimes I mean what I say.

    What was it on this occasion? Well M’Lud I honestly can’t remember and that’s a fact!


  61. resin_lab_dog says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 21:37

    That’s the thing.

    A pre-pack would have saved the business, if not the Ltd company. However the plan all along seems to have been to save the business, to have A Rangers in the SPL debt free.

    No need for a CVA, still in the SPL etc. Everything else could have been achieved.

    Hence my confusion.


  62. jerfeelgood says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 21:19

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    There’s an interesting bit late on where craig claims that he was in contact with HMRC re the PAYE/NIC and they were happy to let it rollover through the january transfer window (implyng that he had their assent to continue trading while insolvent) to see if they could sell some players in an effort to payoff Tax owed…..

    ______________________________________

    That does fit with the timing: Although ‘happy to let it rollover through the January transfer window may be putting something of an optomistic slant on it. I suspect.
    I suspect the exchange was probably more like something along the lines of the following:

    Hector: ‘Stump up reet noo Craig ya little fanny!’
    GEF: ‘I Cannae. Pleeze. Wur Potless’
    Hector: ‘Right, Lord Hodge fetch me a winding up order. Bend over Craigy boy. This is gonnae hurt you alot more than it hurts me!!’
    GEF:’ No please, Sir I beg. I’m good for it I just need to sell some players, but those horrible men at the SFA won’t let me until January. Help me oot Mr Salmond!!!! ‘
    Hector: ‘Dinnae feck wi me ya wee gub shite! Cash doon, first o Feb or I’ll paint ya knackers wi a tricolore and feed yer erse to the Govan boot boys, see if ah don’t (slap). Now get tae feck!!!!

    and the rest is history!


  63. resin_lab_dog says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 21:37
    Accepted completely – but you fill it out with interest – looking through – yep – the SFA /SPL outrageous corruption a bit understated – as is the Insolvency `profession` not highlighted – or the unintelligent PR intel and such – but yep

    [have you know RTC have us under real active consideration on book / film roles – expectin` a call any minute 😉 ]


  64. While Charlotte rewinds a bit to bring the Twitteratti up to speed on what she divulged on here …

    I think it’s worthy to remind ourselves of a quote Jack irvine made on behalf of Rangers …..

    “I have a message for those who would denigrate Rangers, if you stop telling lies about us, we’ll stop telling the truth about you.”

    Maybe it should have been ….. If we stop telling lies, will you stop telling the truth about us …

    from …

    http://www.thedrum.com/news/2011/07/07/media-house-hired-bring-more-aggressive-response-rangers-fc-critics


  65. resin_lab_dog says:

    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 21:37

    twopanda says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 19:21

    8

    2

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    Doesn’t matter how you set / distrib the numbers – sums on tape are nonsense – and they must have known that.

    __________________________________________

    They may look like a nonsense now, but not necessarily so then: at the point this recording was made:
    ===================================

    Correct. May last year a very different time for the Pretendygers.

    My novation post may well be mis timed then? Or was the Craigie/ Imran trust based on these kind of lunch dates?

    Graigie do tell.


  66. phill4500 says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 20:59

    In BrianAndImranPart9, about 2 minutes in,
    CW mentions something that sounds like “the Tiffon Foundation” – has this name come up before?

    Also, Imran, who’s supposed to be a financial genius, seems to struggle a bit with arithmetic,
    “What’s five time two and a half?”
    ======================================================

    I heard it as Tippon Foundation and haven’t come across it before but took a note to relisten
    and try and check it.

    Yea Imran doesn’t seem to do mental arithmetic – probably better at mental acrobatics. I was trying to think why he was stumbling and wondered if the debenture rules weren’t just a straight uniform percentage allocation against shares bought but were in steps where the percentage allowed under each step increased according to a formula based on number of shares bought.

    I gave-up trying to figure it as it was too early to get get stuck in the minutiae.


  67. ecobhoy says:

    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 21:39

    essexbeancounter says:
    Saturday, June 8, 2013 at 21:25
    ========================================================

    Sometimes I do irony, sometimes my sense of humour rears its twisted head, sometimes there are different ways of saying things that gets a message across and sometimes I mean what I say.

    What was it on this occasion? Well M’Lud I honestly can’t remember and that’s a fact!
    ================================================================

    Ecobhoy…it was probably a cheeky little Chablis 2011 from Sainbury’s own vineyard which provoked my customary outrage to the “Chartered Accountant/Professional Person” comment(s)…
    perhaps your irony is lost on me…like so many things in my dotage!

    PS…OT and not too personal I hope…but may I ask when do you sleep, based on your ubiquitous postings on this wonderful blog…or do you have a little team of “proxy” posters to assist you….?


  68. Adam ….
    I know you pop in now and again …… If you read this ……. WHAT is happening over on Pauls site ?

    After days of tearing each apart … they seem to descended into some kind of unspoken truce …
    They are discussing relegion last few days …. and seem to all be in agreement with each other …. !

    Lots of explosive Charlotte stuff to discuss …… Yet not a single mention …… !

    or is it me that’s lost it ?

    A very confused newtz


  69. OT ,Updating my diary tonight while enjoying a Balvenie Double wood ,well a few ,one of the places I will be visiting in the BVI in the comming months will be St Thomas,was there 2 years ago ,lovely place,I was amazed at the financial companies that where set up there,loads of them ,as coincidence would have it ,the place I will be staying at will be in Charlotte Amalie,but that would be too much of a coincidence,wouldnt it.

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