The Immortality Project

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The Immortality Project

The Immortality Project – or – Death and Denial – Guest Post by Humble Pie

Death has a tendency to put everything else into perspective.

My family recently suffered a bereavement. It wasn’t a sudden death but it was still far too quick and far too soon for any of us to get our heads around. As our loved one’s illness progressed, each of us, in our own way, began to prepare for the inevitable. In the end, whilst it was not unexpected, it was nevertheless very traumatic, for everyone concerned.

Grief is a strange and often debilitating set of emotions. Even now, a few months on, when the intense sadness and tears have given way (mostly) to disbelief, we still find it hard to fully comprehend what has happened. We might never completely ‘come to terms’ with that fact, however, we do accept that it DID happen, much as we all wish that it hadn’t.

Many of you will be familiar with the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Well, I am aware of having experienced each of these stages over the last year, as well as a couple of others which I wasn’t prepared for (a lot of personal reflection, a little guilt and a not insignificant amount of pain).

It seems to me that the Rangers supporters have been purposefully ensnared in an interminable cycle of the first two stages of KR; alternating between the denial of the death of Rangers and anger at what they feel has been done to their beloved club then back again to denial. This, as any first year psychology student will tell you, is a very unhealthy state of mind which, if not addressed, can quickly lead to physiological and behavioural problems.

At its lowest level, for example, people throughout the ages have continued to set places at the dinner table for their long-dead loved ones. They know in their hearts that the person has died but are comforted by the familiarity of doing the same things that they have always done. However, in extreme cases people have even kept and maintained the actual cadavers of the deceased, dressed them, talked to them and watched TV with them, in a state of absolute denial.

In archaeology, accepting and recognising the inevitability of death through conducting ceremonial burial services is considered to be one of the very first signs of a civilised people. You see, grief is a uniquely human and cathartic process i.e. it can produce ‘a feeling of being cleansed emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically as a result of an intense emotional experience’.

In short, grief is ultimately a good thing which leads you through a series of natural psychological steps towards acknowledgement of an unalterable situation, allowing you to take stock, re-evaluate and start to move on with your own life in a positive way.

That is what should have happened with the fans of the old Rangers.

Instead, this ‘never-ending cycle of the undead’ was positively encouraged by those many unscrupulous individuals who saw a way of making a fast buck from maintaining the ‘Then, Now and Forever’ illusion. Worse still, this resurrection fantasy is being facilitated by the very people whom we have entrusted to stop this kind of thing from happening in the first place. If only the SFA or the MSM had told them the truth, they might have had a chance to actually face up to the situation.

Unfortunately, these two bodies were so complicit in Rangers demise, so right up to their necks in the brown smelly stuff, that they were too afraid to face the inevitable anger which would have rightly come their way. So, they made up grim fairy tales to feed to the bereaved souls about non-existent ‘holding companies’, the ethereal ‘club’ which transcends death and by suggesting that it is ‘all a matter of opinion’.

Ernest Becker, in his 1973 Pulitzer Prize winning book ‘The Denial of Death’, posits that “human civilization is no more than an elaborate, symbolic defence mechanism against the knowledge of our own mortality”. This fear of death acts as an emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival instincts.

‘By embarking on what Becker refers to as an ‘immortality project’, in which a person creates or becomes part of something which they feel will last forever, the person feels they too have become part of something eternal; something that will never die, compared to their physical body that will die one day’. When this ‘immortality project’ is threatened it leads inevitably to fear, depression, loss of identity and sense of purpose.

In that case, the initial reaction of the fans to the imminent demise of Rangers was entirely predictable and understandable. “No way, this can’t happen to us, we are the people”. However, as soon as the full realisation of their club’s inexorable slide into liquidation began to sink in, came the expected anger. But towards whom should their righteous wrath be directed?

“Who did this to us, who are these people?” they cried. “Not I”, said Sir Murray of the Mint, “for I was duped”, “Nor I”, said President Ogilvie, “for it was never my role”. “Nor I”, said Mr Smith, “for I never knew nothing or nothing”. “Not us”, squealed the media monkeys in unison, “for that’s what we were told”, “Nor us”, said the SPL “it was nothing to do with us”.

“Who then?, we demand to know who these people are”, howled the horrified hordes. “T’was the Whyte knight”, they all concurred, “he alone caused this calamity”. “And the bampots”, sneered the slimy slug. “And the taxman”, puffed the pundits. “And the unseen hand of Mr Lawwell”, whispered the bilious bears from the safety of their den.

There were even those who tried to warn them, not least Hugh Adam, Phil Mac and RTC but they didn’t want to know. Even when their very own Messrs Green and Traynor spelt out, in no uncertain terms, that liquidation meant the death of their club, still they chose wilful ignorance. The MSM, with access to the same information, encouraged them to keep their heads firmly ensconced, ostrich stylee, on the banks of that ironically blue and white river in Egypt. Which just goes to show ‘you can lead a lamb to knowledge but you can’t make it think’

The point though is that the Rangers fans have heard the truth and once you have heard something you cannot unhear it. Even if you reject it, even if you deny it, it gnaws away at the back of your mind, infecting your subconscious.

Almost a year ago, I posted the following on TSFM. http://theinternetbampot.wordpress.com/2012/09/ in which I postulated that the SFA were too frightened to say anything which might imply that The Rangers were a new club.

Looking back at that post, I am amazed at how little the landscape has changed.

A year on and it has become apparent that the corporate cancer that destroyed Rangers has continued to metastasize in its new host. Charlotte’s revelations may have shown us that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than we first suspected. However, in my humble opinion, the information provided has only succeeded in ‘poisoning the well’ and deflecting attention from the main culprits in this disaster. Layer upon layer of complexity has been added to an already opaque story and the majority of her utterances appear designed to engage the more enquiring minds on this forum and consume their excess mental energy.

I know that some people are bored with this ‘debate’ but, to my mind, the single most important step for the redemption of Scottish football is the fan’s acceptance that The Rangers, who currently ply their trade in the SPFL First Division, are a new club. Once they have accepted that then everything else that they perceive has happened to them will begin to make sense. They will see that rather than everyone having a fly kick at them when they were down, most were actually trying to help them. It will also dawn on them that the very people who have been telling them that there is an anti-Rangers conspiracy against them are actually the same ones who are screwing them over.

Rangers were not relegated to div 3, The Rangers applied as a new club and were granted entry into the bottom tier of Scottish football. They are not banned from European competition, merely ineligible as a new club without the requisite financial ‘history’. Any reference to ‘rulings’ from ECA, ASA, the BBC Trust and any internal or so-called ‘independent’ enquiries are completely irrelevant, as none of these bodies are the final arbiter in this case. Scots Law is clear that there is no distinction between club and company after incorporation, when the company dies the club dies with it. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.

Sooner or later The Rangers fans are going to realise this fact and when they do, there will be hell to pay. Until they do, their new club can never become truly cleansed. Only then can they move on and only then can they join together with fans of other clubs to root out the real cancer at the heart of Scottish football.  That’s why the MSM and the SFA are still petrified to say anything. In the meantime the real creators of this disaster are sneakily positioning themselves further and further away from the scene of the crime.

I am sure the majority of us would happily accept a new Rangers, cleansed of its financial, emotional and supremacist baggage. A club that all decent Rangers fans could support without feeling any guilt about Rangers downfall or that they were being taken for mugs. The prospect of a new dawn in Scottish football, where sporting integrity took primacy and clubs lived within their means was very real. However, as usual the SFA couldn’t miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

The truth is that Scottish football is in the state it is in, not because Rangers died but because those with the power and mandate to effect the prognosis sat back and did nothing. I am sure that they believe that ‘time heals all wounds’ and that the longer this injustice is allowed to stand the more likely it will be accepted by the man in the street. No doubt the authorities feel it is in the national interest to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’. However I cannot accept this. I believe that it is vital that we are able to face up to reality so we can move on for the benefit of all football supporters.

Scottish football is at a crossroads right now, I think we all feel it. Rampant corruption has become so mainstream that many of our fellow supporters have began to accept this as the norm. However, it just doesn’t sit right with me and I suspect that many regular contributors and readers of this blog feel likewise.

We have quite lost our way and we live in a society which spends vast amounts of money paying people like Jack Irvine to ensure that we stay lost. The mainstream media treat us like little imbeciles and demand that we conform to their assumed ‘professional superiority’. The PR machine plays up to our stereotypes and feeds our fantasies while the poorest people pay to swallow their poisonous propaganda and relentless trivia.

So what can we do ? Clearly, battering out a few blog posts and strongly worded letters to the various authorities involved has been rewarded by the square root of FA.

How can we make this an opportunity for growth rather than contributing to the destruction of Scottish football ? It is not good enough to tear down a system unless we have a better system to replace it. However, I believe that it is not the system itself which is broken. It is that those charged with administering the system are hopelessly corrupted, hugely conflicted and unable to apply their rules without fear or favour.

By their incapacity and inaction (wilful or otherwise) the SFA have facilitated a motley crew of various spivs, chancers and con-artists to glean the last few meagre pickings from the bones of the emaciated loyal supporters of this new club purporting to be the once mighty Rangers. They have permitted these ne’er-do-wells to collectively appropriate many tens of millions of pounds from the Rangers fans, the creditors and the public purse. They have already allowed this corporate malignancy to spread to a new host, ‘The Rangers’, and the absence of ‘moral hazard’ makes it more likely that the disease will continue to spread.

Benjamin Franklin once said, “‘Nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”

Someone else once said, “The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it’s just sort of a tired feeling.”

I sense that we are all beginning to get tired of this. It is time to stand together, all football fans, face the facts and direct our anger against the officers of the SFA who have allowed this sham to develop into a catastrophe.

I have no doubt that my humble opinions expressed here will raise the ire of many deluded souls. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that the only people who get mad at you for speaking the truth are those that are living a lie.

RIP Big Man.

 

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3,959 Comments so far

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billyj1Posted on4:20 pm - Sep 12, 2013


See pretendygers today announced sponsorship by prettendyfags, ELites.
Quite appropriate.

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bluPosted on4:23 pm - Sep 12, 2013


TW says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:12 pm
Effectively a 3 match ban for betting on games Black played in. Can anyone give some perspective to this by saying any other player / managers who have been given 3 match bans and what their offences were?
============================================================
TW, not 3 match ban offences but betting ones in England:
Andros Townsend (Tottenham) £18k fine, 4 months ban (3 suspended) for placing bets, none against his own team.
Cameron Jerome (Stoke), £50k fine for placing numerous bets, none against his own team.

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bluPosted on4:35 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Smugas says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:07 pm
======================================================
I suspect you’re right but two lawyers still trumped an accountant and I wouldn’t even be putting any of Ian Black’s money on the UTT upholding HMRC’s appeal. The adversarial rather than inquisitorial nature of the proceedings plays out nicely for the tax avoiders/dodgers. I refer you to the SPL’s Tribunal chaired by Lord Nimmo Smith, the weak case led by the SPL’s lawyer and the incomprehensible testimony from the SFA’s expert on registration.

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john clarkePosted on4:37 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:07 pm
‘..midfielder Ian Black given 10 game ban for breaching betting rules. 7 suspended. Also receives £7.5k fine.’
—–
What an unhealthy precedent and heavy rod for their own already disgraced back has now been set by the Judicial panel.
It is now beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is not to be trusted as being either wise, fair, balanced, or even aware of any implications other than how their judgments help or hinder an already corrupt club.
There must be a massive outcry at this further weakening of any kind of proper governance of the game in Scotland.
No player punter ( whether betting against or for his own club) is going to be seriously put off by this judgment.
nor is any punting referee.
The game’s a bogy, as far as sporting integrity is concerned.
Who will now believe that any game is played honestly and fairly?

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auchinstarryPosted on4:42 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Three game ban for betting against the team he was playing for. The Ba’ is well and truly busted.
This judgement invites corruption both on and off the playing field . Pathetic? It does’nt even come close to describing this verdict. Hang your heads in Shame.

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SmugasPosted on4:46 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Blu

I cannot tell you how disappointed I am to agree with you entirely!

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manandboyPosted on4:48 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:07 pm
Scotsman
@TheScotsman
.@RFC_Official midfielder Ian Black given 10 game ban for breaching betting rules. 7 suspended.
Also receives £7.5k fine.
________________________________________________________________________________
How it looks
A 3 game ban starting right away and then 7 games banned suspended till the end of this season.
(So that Sevco won’t be hurt in their bid for the First Division title)
i.e. “At the Boards discretion” has been applied

In the EPL, a red card will bring an automatic 3 match suspension
The offences that warrant a red card are defined in FIFA’s Laws of the Game

Being guilty of ‘serious foul play’ (for instance, a very dangerous tackle).
Violence.
Spitting at an opponent or other person.
Denying the other side an opportunity to score by handling the ball.
Denying the other side an opportunity to score by fouling a player.
Offensive or abusive language or gestures.
Or,
In Scotland, for Sevco players only,
Betting on three football matches on your own team not to win
and betting on a further 10 football matches that involved your own team.
Betting on a further 147 football matches.

Leaving the £7.5k fine to one side for the moment
This decision means, within one season,
that using abusive language is the same as betting on 160 football matches,
including on your own team 13 times!

At the Boards’ discretion.
Aye right

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ParmaHamsterPosted on4:48 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Yet another in the long, long line of decisions taken in the last 100 or so years by the hierarchy we entrust to supervise the game in this country which has favoured one club. A ban which rates corruption in the game (and let’s not be fooled here, that is exactly what Black was guilty of) on a par with swearing or spitting at an opponent. How these idiots who arrived at such a conclusion without taking into account what other offences merited a three-game ban defies belief. Not even Hercules could clean this stable out now.

Shocking decision – now is it OK for us to demand, “Just who were these people?” 😉

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bluPosted on4:51 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Smugas says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:46 pm
==================================
?

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Carfins FinestPosted on4:57 pm - Sep 12, 2013


The outcome of the Ian Black betting scandal is as meaningless as it was predictable but ask yourself this. As a supporter,If he played for your team and bet against your team how would you feel towards him? Even better if you were a player playing alongside him how would you feel knowing that your team mate has bet against the team?.

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F.M.

F.M.Posted on4:59 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Re the Black decision . Come on guys and gals did anybody seriously expect anything else ?

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Carfins FinestPosted on5:01 pm - Sep 12, 2013


blu says:

September 12, 2013 at 4:51 pm

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Smugas says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:46 pm
==================================
?
==============
A thumbs down for a question mark. Brilliant.

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ParmaHamsterPosted on5:01 pm - Sep 12, 2013


https://twitter.com/TomEnglishSport

Andy Muirhead making the valid point that it’ll be interesting to see how TributeActFC deal with Black after the Sendaza fiasco.

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readceltPosted on5:01 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Re the level of the fine.

Is this 2 weeks wages?

I’m sure the reason for the discrepancy with the EPL examples is due to the MASSIVE wages.

A 3 match ban is far too light.

Are we about to become the football equivalent of Pakistan cricket?

Roll up roll up, place your bets!

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ParmaHamsterPosted on5:03 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Looks like Jack has his minions on Black Watch….TD’s abounding in the last ten minutes or so.

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john clarkePosted on5:08 pm - Sep 12, 2013


I am in such a rage that I have fired off this email to Greenslade, Patullo and Thomson.

” Gentlemen all,
I refer to the very recently announced judgment of the SFA’s Judicial Panel in the case of Ian Black, accused of many incidents of betting on football games and of betting against his own team.

He has been given a 10 match ban ( 7 suspended !) and fined a miserable few grand.

What an unhealthy precedent and heavy rod for their own already disgraced back has now been set by the Judicial panel.

It is now beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is not to be trusted as being either wise, fair, balanced, or even aware of any implications other than how their judgments help or hinder an already corrupt club.

There must be a massive outcry at this further weakening of any kind of proper governance of the game in Scotland.

No player punter ( whether betting against or for his own club) is going to be seriously put off by this judgment.

Nor is any punting referee or other official.

The game’s a bogy, as far as sporting integrity is concerned.

And Scottish football will become even more corrupt than it already is.

Who will now believe that any game is played honestly and fairly?
“..

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cowanpete

cowanpetePosted on5:12 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Re the Black verdict.
We should inundate FIFA and UEFA with emails, the gist being: “you claim to regulate football in the World / Europe. Is this the sort of message you want FAs affiliated with you to be sending to players and more importantly to young fans? Namely, if you are a football player and you bet on football matches and you get caught then the punishment is roughly the same as if you were sent off for Violent Conduct?”
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2986&newsID=12485&newsCategoryID=1

I am not surprised by the leniency of the verdict but I am still infuriated by it.
Compare this with the FIFA decision to effectively disqualify Cape Verde from the World Cup because they played an unregistered player.

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ParmaHamsterPosted on5:12 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Carfins Finest says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:57 pm
________________________________________________________________________________
The outcome of the Ian Black betting scandal is as meaningless as it was predictable but ask yourself this. As a supporter,If he played for your team and bet against your team how would you feel towards him? Even better if you were a player playing alongside him how would you feel knowing that your team mate has bet against the team?.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Less than a week after the story first broke about Black and his corruption, he turned out for TributeActFC at Airdrie…where the ”fans” cheered every touch and chanted his name. Even Supper Ally paid tribute to him for getting through that week.

Told me all I needed to know about how TributeActFC were viewing things.

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ParmaHamsterPosted on5:19 pm - Sep 12, 2013


TW says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:12 pm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gavin Gunning, anyone? 😯

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Carfins FinestPosted on5:21 pm - Sep 12, 2013


ParmaHamster says:

September 12, 2013 at 5:12 pm

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Carfins Finest says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:57 pm
—————————–
My point exactly. Circle the wagons cos everybody hates us and are having fly kicks. They are never to blame. They can do no wrong. When faced with any rule breach the rule is simply removed/ignored/changed to suit.THIS is what fuels the watp mentallity.

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andyPosted on5:23 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Further to the announcement on 10 September 2013, the Company confirms that the Board’s discussions have been continuing with representatives of the group who requisitioned (together the “Requisitioners”) a general meeting to consider the proposed resolutions (“Requisition”) detailed in the announcement on 2 August 2013 (“General Meeting”).

The Company can confirm that the Requisitioners have withdrawn the Requisition which put forward resolutions for the removal of Craig Mather, Brian Stockbridge and Bryan Smart as Directors of the Company and for the appointment Frank Blin and Paul Murray as Non-Executive Directors of the Company on the condition that the Company convenes its Annual General Meeting to be held no later than 31 October 2013.

The Company confirms that all of the current Directors remain in office and that it is not appointing any additional Directors save that as previously announced, the Company confirms that it continues to actively seek to appoint a new Chairman.

Further announcements will be made as appropriate.

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e…entId=11707849

_____________
thats another 7 weeks to get the properties sorted out 🙂

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scapaflow

scapaflowPosted on5:26 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Andy

It will be interesting to see how the surrogates of the various camps, spin this…..

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fergusslayedthebluesPosted on5:29 pm - Sep 12, 2013


andy
It seems that lately Sevco 2012 have been putting more and more things off as a delaying tactic .
Wonder why ?

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andyPosted on5:30 pm - Sep 12, 2013


If McColl had the 51% he would not have left the foxes in charge of the chicken coup for another 7 weeks

im sure there will be an unexpected delay to the halloween AGM

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fergusslayedthebluesPosted on5:32 pm - Sep 12, 2013


I read this morning that FF had posted Sevco’s wage bill as 10m/11m was that players and coaches only or all staff costs including their multitude of directors known and unknown . 😯 😯

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fergusslayedthebluesPosted on5:43 pm - Sep 12, 2013


It has always bothered me that the WTC (DOS scheme) was never fully investigated by the SFA .
Although I suppose the fact that Ragers were found bang to rights on that would answer the question as to why the SFA have steered well clear.
In years to come the decisions made by the powers that be in our game during this whole debacle will be properly investigated and it will be exposed as the most corrupt and despicable episode in the history of our game and that will be some achievement .

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thirdmanrunningPosted on5:53 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Reference Mr Ian Black.

Last year I was party to some information related to footballers betting on an SPL game but didn’t divulge this at the time as it came from a very reliable source.

The week before Hearts played Hibs in the Scottish Cup Final they played Celtic at Parkhead. They lost 5-0 IIRC, and were woeful. That season the HMFC players had gone without pay for some time. I was told that several of them had placed large bets on them losing that game.

It was a dead-rubber, Celtic were Champions and no Hearts player would want to get injured, so the perfect scenario really.

But does anyone know if Black is supposed to have bet whilst against TRFC while playing for them, or does this relate to his Hearts and ICT career also?

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ParmaHamsterPosted on6:00 pm - Sep 12, 2013


thirdmanrunning says:
September 12, 2013 at 5:53 pm
=================================================================================

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24060801

Do keep up…. 🙄

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Matty Roth

Matty RothPosted on6:03 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Jagsman says:
September 11, 2013 at 11:44 pm
42 20 Rate This

Matty, upthehoops: you’re right. Clearly.
I don’t know how I could have questioned the original assertion. Sheer madness on my part.
Obviously Donnelly couldn’t possibly be telling the truth about supporting Clyde. How could anyone do that?
Thanks for putting me right.
You’re either a Sellick man or Sevco…….. Obviously….

Sometimes I despair.

================================

Cheer up Jagsman.

I’m neither a Cetlic man or a Sevco man myself so I know fine well that supporters of teams other than those two don’t need to have any particular sympathy to either one of them.

But we do have a few journo’s out there who claim to support one team and seem to those of us observing to have a great deal of affection for another.

Chick Young being the archetypal example where its hard to believe St Mirren really is his first priority/love.

Seem like you have lots of evidence to demonstrate Dougie has a real passion for Clyde and I wouldn’t doubt what you say in that regard. But am I really the only one who gets the impression he also carries a flame for Rangers? He does seem to be in the directors box very regularly if the photo’s kicking about the internet are anything to go by.

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StevieBC

StevieBCPosted on6:07 pm - Sep 12, 2013


And of course the irony is that William Hill is a major SFA sponsor…

And having looked again at the SFA website, I don’t see what values some of these sponsors share with Scottish football.
N.B. I am not talking about values shared with the SFA blazers, but with Scottish football – i.e. from the majority of participants, [school kids / juveniles], through to amateurs and professionals ?

William Hill / betting.
McDonalds / fast food.
Mars / junk food.
Carling / alcohol.

A cynic would suggest that the SFA just grabs the money from any source – and helps to promote ‘unhealthy’ products amongst Scottish football participants – and regardless of their age.

[ Same argument could be levelled at clubs, but the SFA is supposed to be above simply maximising profit, I believe.]

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Night TerrorPosted on6:07 pm - Sep 12, 2013


TW says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:12 pm

Effectively a 3 match ban for betting on games Black played in. Can anyone give some perspective to this by saying any other player / managers who have been given 3 match bans and what their offences were?

Bet against his own team 3 times, receives a 3 match ban. 1 match per bet? Plus all the other bets he wasn’t supposed to make.

That seems rather lenient to me.

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TSFMPosted on6:09 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Folks, I think we have done this “what team does the journalist support” thing to death.

The correct answer of course is, who cares? Please take it elsewhere.

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bad capt madmanPosted on6:11 pm - Sep 12, 2013


I had earlier jested that the SFA would give Black a suspended admonishment…i wasn’t too far off after all.

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Barcabhoy

BarcabhoyPosted on6:25 pm - Sep 12, 2013


As usual the SFA have provided nowhere near enough detail to allow us to even attempt to understand their decision. This isn’t only a dysfunctional shot organisation, it is one which clearly sees itself as totally unaccountable to the Scottish Football supporter.

Decisions are taken and not explained. Media outlets are stonewalled on anything remotely sensitive or controversial. Meanwhile the SFA continues to produce appalling financial results , with a staff wage bill that has just risen by £1.1 million to £7.35 million.

Thats correct , the SFA , in the middle of forecasting Armageddon for Scottish Football increased it’s own wages by nearly 18% in a year.

Another matter that the SFA has completely failed in is ownership control. Offshore trusts are used for the very good reason that the beneficiary of the trust does not want anyone to know who they are.

Rangers are currently owned in significant measure by offshore trusts , and there is every likeliehood that the ultimate beneficiary of some of these trusts will be Craig Whyte ( banned for life by the SFA) and Rafat Rizvi ( on Interpols most wanted list)

Thats one obvious reason why the use of offshore trusts should not be allowed in football ownership. Another reason is that it makes it impossible to enforce the rules over not owning shares in more than one club. Yet another reason is that it increases the likeliehood of corrupt practices including match fixing.

Club A is owned by trust Z in the Cook Islands. They are drawn to play Club B owned by trust X in the BVI. Unknown to the “chocolate fireguard” that is the SFA , the beneficial owner of both trusts could be the same person.

The SFA appear to deal with this possibility using the “that wont happen” defence.

The SFA are in crises precisely because what they thought wouldn’t happen , did happen, and happened on an even bigger scale than worst case scenario

I suggest a new motto for the SFA. This seems apt

Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful.

Samuel Johnson

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MickleenPosted on6:28 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 2m
Abuse on twitter is one thing but when people start on you in the street with your wife that’s another entirely.
Details
Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 8m
@kaisersauzee no was out for a walk with my wife. Soon every Journo in the land will feel unable to speak.

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borussiabeefburgPosted on6:29 pm - Sep 12, 2013


See Jim Spence on Twitter mentioning an unsavoury incident while out walking with his wife today. Police reassurance was required. According to Jim “This is getting out of hand.”

Edit: you’re fast, Mickleen!

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Blindsummit63Posted on6:32 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Mickleen says:
September 12, 2013 at 6:28 pm
Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 2m
Abuse on twitter is one thing but when people start on you in the street with your wife that’s another entirely.
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Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 8m
@kaisersauzee no was out for a walk with my wife. Soon every Journo in the land will feel unable to speak.
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Looks like the brownshirts are out and about. This is getting out of hand, and still Sevco fans on twitter blame him and say he had it coming. Soon someone is going to get badly hurt and the blame will lie squarely with the Rangers Spivs and their rabble rousers, and with our gutless football “authorities”

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Matty Roth

Matty RothPosted on6:35 pm - Sep 12, 2013


So has a statement of support for their journalists from the BBC been released yet?
No? Are you sure?

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nostarsandbarredPosted on6:41 pm - Sep 12, 2013


So its not a 10 match ban at all… unless of course he’s so stupid as to bet again.
A 3 match ban…. for betting against your own team…. extraordinary.

However, there is a bright side… obviously he is fully supported by Sevco, and will continue to draw a handsome wage from the coffers (which he can use for betting on anything other than football, obviously), and… his case will only add weight to the growing feeling that corruption in the game is confirmed; the more that feeling is re-inforced, the more likely it is that the dam will burst… given time. And finally…. he is not exactly the most fair-minded of players (this is not an just an opinion… check his disciplinary record), and will therefore be spending some time out on a self-ban.

I feel better already 🙂

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NawlitePosted on6:54 pm - Sep 12, 2013


I’ve drawn the BBC report of Black’s punishment to the attention of UEFA, adding many of the comments that have already been made here with regard to the SFA treating the offence as commensurate with a player swearing.

I’ve asked them to step in, given the already existing lack of faith in the SFA to deal with potential corruption. Whether they choose to become involved or not, we will have to wait and see.

I’m no Mark Dingwall, so not supplying a script or ‘mobilising the troops’!

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davythelotionPosted on7:04 pm - Sep 12, 2013


StevieBC on September 12, 2013 at 6:07 pm
@@@@@@
The acceptance of sponsor’s money doesn’t justify a breach of the rules. If a player turns up for a game under the influence, pointing to a sponsors logo wouldn’t be accepted as justification.
Jockeys are forbidden from betting as they are in a position to influence the result.
Betting on games that you are involved in is both unethical and it cheats the honest punter who is betting on an outcome which they cannot influence.
The casual acceptance of Black’s wrongdoing ‘players and officials are doing it’ (c) AMcA, and the failure of sevco to deal with the player speaks volumes!!!!

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theoldshedPosted on7:12 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Mickleen says:
September 12, 2013 at 6:28 pm
14 0 Rate This
Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 8m
@kaisersauzee no was out for a walk with my wife. Soon every Journo in the land will feel unable to speak.

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This is sickening. Jim Spence, every right minded person has got your full support. They don’t like anyone else, we’re not too fond of them (and they don’t care), so it’s surely time to boycott all their games, home and away, in perpetuity if need be. It’s the only solution as far as I can see. Enough is enough.

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theoldshedPosted on7:15 pm - Sep 12, 2013


theoldshed says:
September 12, 2013 at 7:12 pm
0 0 Rate This

Mickleen says:
September 12, 2013 at 6:28 pm
14 0 Rate This
Jim Spence ‏@bbcjimspence 8m
@kaisersauzee no was out for a walk with my wife. Soon every Journo in the land will feel unable to speak.

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Sorry, I meant “Jim Spence, you have the full support of every right minded person”, This is all becoming too disturbing..where are my tranquillisers…

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smartie1947Posted on7:15 pm - Sep 12, 2013


StevieBC says:

September 12, 2013 at 6:07 pm

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And of course the irony is that William Hill is a major SFA sponsor…

And having looked again at the SFA website, I don’t see what values some of these sponsors share with Scottish football.
N.B. I am not talking about values shared with the SFA blazers, but with Scottish football – i.e. from the majority of participants, [school kids / juveniles], through to amateurs and professionals ?

William Hill / betting.
McDonalds / fast food.
Mars / junk food.
Carling / alcohol.

A cynic would suggest that the SFA just grabs the money from any source – and helps to promote ‘unhealthy’ products amongst Scottish football participants – and regardless of their age.

[ Same argument could be levelled at clubs, but the SFA is supposed to be above simply maximising profit, I believe.]

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I would absolve the SFA of unhealthy sponsorship, if only they would begin some healthy legislation.

.
:

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scapaflow

scapaflowPosted on7:24 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Re Jim Spence some prominent Ranger’s social media types need to get their collars felt, before this gets completely out of hand.

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AuldheidPosted on7:36 pm - Sep 12, 2013


fergusslayedtheblues says:

September 12, 2013 at 5:32 pm

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I read this morning that FF had posted Sevco’s wage bill as 10m/11m was that players and coaches only or all staff costs including their multitude of directors known and unknown . 😯 😯
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That looks like total wage bill excluding Directors.

https://drive.google.com/?tab=wo&authuser=0#my-drive

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Danish PastryPosted on7:38 pm - Sep 12, 2013


SFA = Sevco Football Assciation.

We need an alternative governing body. This lot are more suited to advising Robert Mugabe on sporting issues.

As far as Jim Spence goes it’s up to us, the fans, to take a stand and show support in whatever way we can. His fellow journalists are not prepared to stand up and be counted and the football authorities are complicit by their silence.

Viva Jim Spence! Viva la revolucion!

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smartie1947Posted on7:40 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Real pity there wasn’t some police presence available when Jim Spence was abused in the street in what I assume was Dundee.
We badly need some high-profile court cases with swingeing sentences to bring these episodes to a halt, whether the offence is physical or on-line..

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Not The Huddle MalcontentPosted on7:56 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Spencey still being abused – police involved as he and his family now are threatened in the street

When will The Rangers FC speak out to call for a stop to the threats and intimidation? Their silence on the subject tells me they support it.

When will other journos speak out in defence os one of their own? Are they so stupid and hooked on a succulent lamb diet that they can’t see they will be next if they don’t toe the sevco line?

When will the BBC publicly support it’s employee – which it claims it does. With support like that, i’d be off – stopping only at my lawyers to put together a constructive dismissal case

When will the SFA do or say ANYTHING? every week now we are getting more trouble because of the ambiguity of the Sevco new club/same club argument. When will it stop? At what point will they stop in to stop the game being ragged further through the mud – what does it take? a sponsor walking away? attendances to drop? someone to be physically assaulted or even murdered?

The BBC put plenty of money into the Scottish game, are the SFA prepared to allow one club to ban and intimidate them to the point they pull out altogether?

SHOCKING BEHAVIOUR

It’s about time the fans protested. There needs to be a blanket boycott of all games for one weekend – football without fans is nothing. We need to remind the clubs, the SPFL, the SFA this.

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fergusslayedthebluesPosted on7:56 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Auldheid
My oh my .so add the spivs and their cronies and the mind boggles .
no wonder IBs undercoats on a shoogly nail at £7.500 a week 🙄 💡 😯

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upthehoopsPosted on7:58 pm - Sep 12, 2013


borussiabeefburg says:
September 12, 2013 at 6:29 pm

See Jim Spence on Twitter mentioning an unsavoury incident while out walking with his wife today. Police reassurance was required. According to Jim “This is getting out of hand.”
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Such instances, allied to previous allegations by the NUJ that 32 of their members were threatened last year, definitely make you think. I am as quick as anyone to criticise the media for what I see as inaction but when a man feels under threat, or worse still feels his family are also under threat, who knows how he will react.

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chancer67Posted on8:03 pm - Sep 12, 2013


The treatment of Jim Spence is about what I’d expect from the Sevco support and is entirely predictable.I am with theoldshed on this, the time for some sort of peaceful protest has come, to show the SFA that the way they are governing the game in Scotland is a shambles. I would be in favour of a fans fund to take the SFA on in court otherwise we might as well give up.

The fans have the power to effect change and we should show the SFA and the complacent chairmen of our clubs that enough is enough.Another weapon in our armoury is social media and in particular the speed at which things can be organised and agreed in a fair and equitable manner.

Boycotting the Sevco games could be a way of getting the attention of the UK and European media to take notice and the appropriate football authorities would no doubt ask what the hell is going on in Scotland.Another way could be for on an agreed date or weekend every fan of football clubs join in a coordinated turn away from the match for a minute or so,it would be simple to organise and would certainly be noticed by the press and authorities with the desired outcome a complete and honest clear out of Hampden and the chance to save. Our game.

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newtzPosted on8:04 pm - Sep 12, 2013


ecobhoy says:September 12, 2013 at 2:40 pm

Magnificant summary ….. 🙂 😎

Expanding on the FFW legal setup ….

In April Mr Green admitted on STV asking Mr Whyte for £25,000 to pay the legal fees of FFW. Green claimed the cheque bounced, however STV obtained proof to suggest it cleared and the money was paid out of a business account associated with Wulstan Earley.(through Liberty Capital Markets)

The Worthington Final Claim document expands ….

7. In order to progress the agreement, the Principals had:

(a) Arranged for Liberty Capital Markets Limited to pay £25,000 into Charles
Green’s personal account to enable him to pay the legal fees of Sevco 5088 Ltd as otherwise Field Fisher Waterhouse (FFW) (who Aidan Earley had recommended be used and who made the initial approach to FFW) would not work on the legal paperwork for the Sevco 5088 Ltd deal with D&P. Without Aidan Earley arranging this payment (as told to him by Charles Green) Charles Green’s cheque to FFW would have bounced, which would be disastrous. With the payment having been made successfully FFW were then prepared to work on the documents full time to get the deal done – and to extend credit in respect of any further professional time until after the deal completed and Sevco 5088 Ltd could then payout of funds raised.

There is also an audio recording dated May 9th 2012, between Green and Whyte.

Green said: “I f*****g, I need money off you (Craig Whyte)” to cover the Field Fisher Waterhouse bill.

Green is heard saying to Mr Whyte: “Well, the next step is, we’ve got to f*****g give them (Field Fisher Waterhouse) some money.”
Green said that he will tell the legal firm “Oh, Craig’s gone, Craig’s gone” in relation to the £25,000 payment.
Adding,: “I f*****g, I need money off you [Craig Whyte].” Whyte responded: “Yeah, if you, if you give me your details I’ll cover whatever you’ve got to pay out. It’s not a problem.”
Green responded: “What I’m saying is, there’s no f*****g, there’ll be no trace into my f*****g bank account. But I’ll f*****g, but I’ll do it now, I’ll write it out now. I’ll give them a cheque for £25,000 from me.” He adds: “I’m the f*****g director of the company. I’m their client, I’ll give them twenty-five grand.”

Subsequently Charlotte released evidence showing that the funds had cleared, along with a photocopied image of the cheque showing that the cheque cleared 6 days later on 15th May 2012.

It was revealed in a later audio (recorded May 31st 2012), that they were acting with Patrick Canon at FFW in the final deal and we hear Imran on the phone to Canon while directing Whyte where to sign off on documentation.

Dates ….. dates …

That meeting was held at the Grosvenor and included Ahmad/Sockbridge/Whyte on 31st May 2012.

Now it is important to recall the RIFC Board meeting of Oct 31 2012.

In the minutes they refer heavily on the Sevco Scotland Board minutes dated 29th May 2012 as underpinning the whole transfer (novation) of the switch from Sevco 5088 to Sevco Scotland. You will recall that this board meeting consisted of Green on his own as the only shareholder in Sevco Scotland.

It was also this meeting that Stockbridge confirms that Green is acting as Whyte’s front man.

Seperately,

Section 6.2 of the RIFC board meeting – regarding Green’s ‘Option’ which IMO should never had been exercised since it was on condition of the CVA or APA becoming unconditional in all respects – The CVA and APA are both very clear that that deal is with sevco 5088.
Oh, the board noted that Green had not produced the covering letter along with the Sevco Scotland minutes showing that this transfer was authorised or agreed. …. Ahem !

One last point that might be worthwhile deliberating on is a further point raised in the Final Claim …..

There is some hearsay evidence (press reports of statements made by the Club) that the acquisition was completed by Sevco 5088 and that a transfer of the Club Assets was subsequently made to Sevco Scotland. However, the prospectus issued by Sevco Scotland’s holding company, Rangers International Football Club PLC, states that the Club Assets were acquired by Sevco Scotland directly from RFC 2012. It also states that Sevco Scotland raised £7,719,000 by the issue of 25,340,000 shares in the period to 31 August 2012. Sevco Scotland’s filings with Companies House on the other hand show share issues took place between 29 May 2012 and 17 August 2012 involving the issue of some 29,340,000 shares at an aggregate subscription amount of £9,545,975.

Thought I’d throw that into the mix for debate …..

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fergusslayedthebluesPosted on8:05 pm - Sep 12, 2013


UTH
Looks like Hugh Keevins will be next as twice tonight on SSB he stated that Ragers the club went into administration then liquidation .
was it a slip of the tongue or backing for a fellow media man ? who knows,either way maybe a break to the old but n ben may be in order till the dust settles

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Tartawulver

TartawulverPosted on8:14 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Many media outlets carried the line a few days ago that the BBC received over 400 complaints about Jim Spence, presumably information put out by the BBC. I haven’t read every post so may have missed this, but have the BBC said how many complaints they received about their perceived lack of support for him?

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DelbhoyPosted on8:16 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Hugh Keevinis regarding a footnaller betting on his own match, on Radio:
” If Ally McCoist says this is okay then it is okay “.
What fresh bollockry is this ?
We cannot comment or oppionate until we hear from every underling of at every third tier outfit ?
((Stanraer, East Fife,, Montrose etc. are welcome to opine : they’ve all been around for ages ).

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pilgrim1888Posted on8:16 pm - Sep 12, 2013


SFA ruling on Ian Black explained

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2566&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=12485

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theoldshedPosted on8:17 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Danish Pastry says:
September 12, 2013 at 7:38 pm
13 0 Rate This

As far as Jim Spence goes it’s up to us, the fans, to take a stand and show support in whatever way we can. His fellow journalists are not prepared to stand up and be counted and the football authorities are complicit by their silence.

Viva Jim Spence! Viva la revolucion!

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Couldn’t agree more. But I’m astounded that the Scottish Government hasn’t had something to say about the issue. The following quote from Bill Clinton on World Press Freedom Day in 2009 sums up the seriousness of the situation, as far as I’m concerned:

“The United States is proud to join the international community in celebrating World Press Freedom Day and the contributions that journalists make to advancing human dignity, liberty, and prosperity.

We live in a world where the free flow of information and ideas is a powerful force for progress. Independent print, broadcast, and online media outlets are more than sources of news and opinion. They also expose abuses of power, fight corruption, challenge assumptions, and provide constructive outlets for new ideas and dissent.

Freedom of the press is protected by the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and is a hallmark of every free society. Wherever media freedom is in jeopardy, all other human rights are also under threat. A free media is essential to democracy and it fosters transparency and accountability, both of which are prerequisites for sustained economic development.”

http://blogs.state.gov/stories/2009/05/04/free-media-essential-democracy

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pilgrim1888Posted on8:23 pm - Sep 12, 2013


In unrelated news Derek Mcinnes and Billy Brown receive 2 match suspended bans for behaving like school kids and not responsible highly paid adults.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=2566&newsCategoryID=1&newsID=12486

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NawlitePosted on8:25 pm - Sep 12, 2013


newtz says:

September 12, 2013 at 8:04 pm
__________________________________

Newtz, yet more valuable input to the forum! I don’t know if anyone is of a similar vintage to me and loved the indie/post-punk music of the early ’80s, but your form recently, allied with Ecobhoy’s and a couple of others reminds me of the NME writing about Echo and the Bunnymen and the Teardrop Explodes that their respective run of singles from Treason onwards to around The Killing Moon was just a perfect phase where you literally waited to see what one band could possibly release to top the other’s recent output. (McCulloch and Cope didn’t get on at this point, egos having gone mad in a previous joint venture).

It is high praise indeed that my mind is cast back to that great time…and, of course, the best of it is that you’re not even competing, but building upon what each brings to the party.

Despite it sometimes feeling like we’re having to tread through treacle to get any progress, this forum is a must because of the work all you guys are doing and I apologise for being not much more than a cheerleader!!

Chapeaux all round (or at least the silly flying helmet Cope took to wearing!!

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Danish PastryPosted on8:32 pm - Sep 12, 2013


theoldshed says:
September 12, 2013 at 8:17 pm
1 0 Rate This
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Nice words from Bill oldshed, but Assange is sheltering in an embassy, Snowden has fled, and the young soldier who gave info to Wikileaks about murder has been given 35 years after enduring more than a year of torture. Jimmy Carter had it right when he said recently that the US has no functioning democracy at present. Strong stuff. He’d probably say the same about Scottish football governance, it’s certainly not run for the benefit of the fans at present.

Viva Jim Spence.

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BangordubPosted on8:40 pm - Sep 12, 2013


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/1184954_638123192894368_316008980_n.jpg

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theoldshedPosted on8:41 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Nawlite says:
September 12, 2013 at 8:25 pm
2 0 Rate This

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Hear hear! I post basically just to show support and I take my hat off to the “heavyweight” posters who put the real effort in and are the backbone of the site.

p.s. I was at the Queens Hall Edinburgh in 1989 (I think) watching Julian Cope climbing up and down his mike stand.

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borussiabeefburgPosted on8:42 pm - Sep 12, 2013


nawlite says:
September 12, 2013 at 8:25 pm
++++++++
o/t, nawlite, Julian Cope is still producing great stuff, a fantastic talent.

Back on topic, I’ve just written to the SFA, as follows:-

Dear Sir/Madam,

A simple enquiry, which will be answered by your response or otherwise:

Do you have a policy whereby you selectively respond to email queries?

Thanking you for your attention,

Yours faithfully,

borussiabeefburg

Just to see what happens.

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Danish PastryPosted on8:51 pm - Sep 12, 2013


This just popped up as a retweet on my twitter. Insult to injury?

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RangersMedia News
@RangersMedia
Fifty six journalists murdered in Russia since 1992. One Scottish football reporter heckled in the street #bitofperspectivepleasejim
8:40pm – 12 Sep 13

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SmugasPosted on8:52 pm - Sep 12, 2013


blu says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:51 pm
3 5 Rate This

Smugas says:
September 12, 2013 at 4:46 pm

Blu,

Just to tidy up let me expand. Despite what would appear to me to be overwhelming evidence to the contrary I agree with you, I would not be surprised at all if the UTT failed to uphold HMRC’s appeal.

In other news, in line with Spencey’s not entirely unexpected treatment on the street, I’m surprised no-one is mentioning CW’s appearance in court today regarding claims of theft against his housekeeper. Required police escort away from the court as the mob arrived baying for blood. Not the first time they’ve been in the street chanting his name right enough. 😈

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helpmaboab

helpmaboabPosted on8:55 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Cowan and Cosgrove shouldn’t be short of topics for discussion this weekend then.Lets hope both give full on support for their colleague Jim Spence.It’ll also be interesting to hear their views on the Ian Black getaway.

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macfurglyPosted on8:56 pm - Sep 12, 2013


nawlite says:
September 12, 2013 at 6:54 pm
31 1 i
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I’ve drawn the BBC report of Black’s punishment to the attention of UEFA, adding many of the comments that have already been made here with regard to the SFA treating the offence as commensurate with a player swearing.
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Well done.
How about firing off another one mentioning the SFA’s, “Improperly registered/ eligible to play” ,interpretation described by blu earlier as “incomprehensible”, the word I have been searching for all along.
Alternatively, if there is a simple link, post it and I will send something off, while FIFA’s Cape Verde decision is fresh in the mind.

Support Jim Spence, banned from Tannadice because of the BBC’s reporting of Gavin Gunning’s 3 match ban.
Mental.

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helpmaboab

helpmaboabPosted on8:58 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Bangordub@8:40
Nice one.Lest we forget.

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phill450Posted on8:58 pm - Sep 12, 2013


A fine of £7500 and an effective 3-match ban for betting against your own club seems a bit lenient to me.

I wonder what kind of punishment the SFA would impose if, say, a club/company official was shorting the shares of the same club/company?

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bluPosted on9:02 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Smugas says:
September 12, 2013 at 8:52 pm
============================
Thanks, truth to tell, I mis-read it on first reading. Got it on the second read.

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torrejohnbhoyPosted on9:04 pm - Sep 12, 2013


Withdrawal of requisition for general meeting
Thu, 12th Sep 2013 17:00

RNS Number : 8952N
Rangers Int. Football Club PLC
12 September 2013

?

12 September 2013

Rangers International Football Club plc

(“Rangers”, the “Company” or “Club”)

Withdrawal of requisition for general meeting

Further to the announcement on 10 September 2013, the Company confirms that the Board’s discussions have been continuing with representatives of the group who requisitioned (together the “Requisitioners”) a general meeting to consider the proposed resolutions (“Requisition”) detailed in the announcement on 2 August 2013 (“General Meeting”).

The Company can confirm that the Requisitioners have withdrawn the Requisition which put forward resolutions for the removal of Craig Mather, Brian Stockbridge and Bryan Smart as Directors of the Company and for the appointment Frank Blin and Paul Murray as Non-Executive Directors of the Company on the condition that the Company convenes its Annual General Meeting to be held no later than 31 October 2013.

The Company confirms that all of the current Directors remain in office and that it is not appointing any additional Directors save that as previously announced, the Company confirms that it continues to actively seek to appoint a new Chairman.

Further announcements will be made as appropriate.
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May just be me but this says to me that McColl and Cos bluff was called and they couldn’t deliver.The spivs seem to be in control.McColl and Co agree to hold on whilst the board only say all directors etc remain in place.IMO the spivs have control and will strip the carcase bare.
It’s not surprising.If McColl approached me the conversation would go as follows;

McC:Back me to remove the board.
Me:Why?.
McC:Because if nothing is done Rangers will go bust again.
Me:Haw much are you putting in?.
McC:Nothing.
Me:Well why should I?.
McC:I’m only trying to help but Paul Murray is involved.
Me:How much is he putting in?.
McC: Nothing
Me:Do we really need to continue with this conversation?.

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Bawsman

BawsmanPosted on9:13 pm - Sep 12, 2013


torrejohnbhoy(@johnbhoy1958) says:
September 12, 2013 at 9:04 pm

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I have a different take on the situation mate. I think second Rangers are too close to the cliff edge now and the “requisitioners” see no benefit on boarding the bus to sail over the precipice (again in McClelland and Murray’s case).

I imagine the strategy now will be to form a Third Rangers from the impending crash.

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bad capt madmanPosted on9:33 pm - Sep 12, 2013


So if there is to be a third rangers, how do those who think the second rangers is actually still the first get their heads around there being another one? Will the third now become the second or will the third still be the first? If so, what then happened to the second??

This could result in mass enrolments in philosophy, and the glasgow community learning teams could be busy planning community based existentialism! I can see it now! I used to manage that community learning stuff and would love to take on that gig.

Alternatively it could all go to hell in a hand basket as there has been no evidence of learning taking place so far.

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Tartawulver

TartawulverPosted on9:41 pm - Sep 12, 2013


bad capt madman says:
September 12, 2013 at 9:33 pm

So if there is to be a third rangers, how do those who think the second rangers is actually still the first get their heads around there being another one? Will the third now become the second or will the third still be the first? If so, what then happened to the second??
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Did anyone see how many cats Schroedinger put inside that box?

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