The Immortality Project – or – Death and Denial – Guest Post by Humble Pie
Death has a tendency to put everything else into perspective.
My family recently suffered a bereavement. It wasn’t a sudden death but it was still far too quick and far too soon for any of us to get our heads around. As our loved one’s illness progressed, each of us, in our own way, began to prepare for the inevitable. In the end, whilst it was not unexpected, it was nevertheless very traumatic, for everyone concerned.
Grief is a strange and often debilitating set of emotions. Even now, a few months on, when the intense sadness and tears have given way (mostly) to disbelief, we still find it hard to fully comprehend what has happened. We might never completely ‘come to terms’ with that fact, however, we do accept that it DID happen, much as we all wish that it hadn’t.
Many of you will be familiar with the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Well, I am aware of having experienced each of these stages over the last year, as well as a couple of others which I wasn’t prepared for (a lot of personal reflection, a little guilt and a not insignificant amount of pain).
It seems to me that the Rangers supporters have been purposefully ensnared in an interminable cycle of the first two stages of KR; alternating between the denial of the death of Rangers and anger at what they feel has been done to their beloved club then back again to denial. This, as any first year psychology student will tell you, is a very unhealthy state of mind which, if not addressed, can quickly lead to physiological and behavioural problems.
At its lowest level, for example, people throughout the ages have continued to set places at the dinner table for their long-dead loved ones. They know in their hearts that the person has died but are comforted by the familiarity of doing the same things that they have always done. However, in extreme cases people have even kept and maintained the actual cadavers of the deceased, dressed them, talked to them and watched TV with them, in a state of absolute denial.
In archaeology, accepting and recognising the inevitability of death through conducting ceremonial burial services is considered to be one of the very first signs of a civilised people. You see, grief is a uniquely human and cathartic process i.e. it can produce ‘a feeling of being cleansed emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically as a result of an intense emotional experience’.
In short, grief is ultimately a good thing which leads you through a series of natural psychological steps towards acknowledgement of an unalterable situation, allowing you to take stock, re-evaluate and start to move on with your own life in a positive way.
That is what should have happened with the fans of the old Rangers.
Instead, this ‘never-ending cycle of the undead’ was positively encouraged by those many unscrupulous individuals who saw a way of making a fast buck from maintaining the ‘Then, Now and Forever’ illusion. Worse still, this resurrection fantasy is being facilitated by the very people whom we have entrusted to stop this kind of thing from happening in the first place. If only the SFA or the MSM had told them the truth, they might have had a chance to actually face up to the situation.
Unfortunately, these two bodies were so complicit in Rangers demise, so right up to their necks in the brown smelly stuff, that they were too afraid to face the inevitable anger which would have rightly come their way. So, they made up grim fairy tales to feed to the bereaved souls about non-existent ‘holding companies’, the ethereal ‘club’ which transcends death and by suggesting that it is ‘all a matter of opinion’.
Ernest Becker, in his 1973 Pulitzer Prize winning book ‘The Denial of Death’, posits that “human civilization is no more than an elaborate, symbolic defence mechanism against the knowledge of our own mortality”. This fear of death acts as an emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival instincts.
‘By embarking on what Becker refers to as an ‘immortality project’, in which a person creates or becomes part of something which they feel will last forever, the person feels they too have become part of something eternal; something that will never die, compared to their physical body that will die one day’. When this ‘immortality project’ is threatened it leads inevitably to fear, depression, loss of identity and sense of purpose.
In that case, the initial reaction of the fans to the imminent demise of Rangers was entirely predictable and understandable. “No way, this can’t happen to us, we are the people”. However, as soon as the full realisation of their club’s inexorable slide into liquidation began to sink in, came the expected anger. But towards whom should their righteous wrath be directed?
“Who did this to us, who are these people?” they cried. “Not I”, said Sir Murray of the Mint, “for I was duped”, “Nor I”, said President Ogilvie, “for it was never my role”. “Nor I”, said Mr Smith, “for I never knew nothing or nothing”. “Not us”, squealed the media monkeys in unison, “for that’s what we were told”, “Nor us”, said the SPL “it was nothing to do with us”.
“Who then?, we demand to know who these people are”, howled the horrified hordes. “T’was the Whyte knight”, they all concurred, “he alone caused this calamity”. “And the bampots”, sneered the slimy slug. “And the taxman”, puffed the pundits. “And the unseen hand of Mr Lawwell”, whispered the bilious bears from the safety of their den.
There were even those who tried to warn them, not least Hugh Adam, Phil Mac and RTC but they didn’t want to know. Even when their very own Messrs Green and Traynor spelt out, in no uncertain terms, that liquidation meant the death of their club, still they chose wilful ignorance. The MSM, with access to the same information, encouraged them to keep their heads firmly ensconced, ostrich stylee, on the banks of that ironically blue and white river in Egypt. Which just goes to show ‘you can lead a lamb to knowledge but you can’t make it think’
The point though is that the Rangers fans have heard the truth and once you have heard something you cannot unhear it. Even if you reject it, even if you deny it, it gnaws away at the back of your mind, infecting your subconscious.
Almost a year ago, I posted the following on TSFM. http://theinternetbampot.wordpress.com/2012/09/ in which I postulated that the SFA were too frightened to say anything which might imply that The Rangers were a new club.
Looking back at that post, I am amazed at how little the landscape has changed.
A year on and it has become apparent that the corporate cancer that destroyed Rangers has continued to metastasize in its new host. Charlotte’s revelations may have shown us that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than we first suspected. However, in my humble opinion, the information provided has only succeeded in ‘poisoning the well’ and deflecting attention from the main culprits in this disaster. Layer upon layer of complexity has been added to an already opaque story and the majority of her utterances appear designed to engage the more enquiring minds on this forum and consume their excess mental energy.
I know that some people are bored with this ‘debate’ but, to my mind, the single most important step for the redemption of Scottish football is the fan’s acceptance that The Rangers, who currently ply their trade in the SPFL First Division, are a new club. Once they have accepted that then everything else that they perceive has happened to them will begin to make sense. They will see that rather than everyone having a fly kick at them when they were down, most were actually trying to help them. It will also dawn on them that the very people who have been telling them that there is an anti-Rangers conspiracy against them are actually the same ones who are screwing them over.
Rangers were not relegated to div 3, The Rangers applied as a new club and were granted entry into the bottom tier of Scottish football. They are not banned from European competition, merely ineligible as a new club without the requisite financial ‘history’. Any reference to ‘rulings’ from ECA, ASA, the BBC Trust and any internal or so-called ‘independent’ enquiries are completely irrelevant, as none of these bodies are the final arbiter in this case. Scots Law is clear that there is no distinction between club and company after incorporation, when the company dies the club dies with it. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.
Sooner or later The Rangers fans are going to realise this fact and when they do, there will be hell to pay. Until they do, their new club can never become truly cleansed. Only then can they move on and only then can they join together with fans of other clubs to root out the real cancer at the heart of Scottish football. That’s why the MSM and the SFA are still petrified to say anything. In the meantime the real creators of this disaster are sneakily positioning themselves further and further away from the scene of the crime.
I am sure the majority of us would happily accept a new Rangers, cleansed of its financial, emotional and supremacist baggage. A club that all decent Rangers fans could support without feeling any guilt about Rangers downfall or that they were being taken for mugs. The prospect of a new dawn in Scottish football, where sporting integrity took primacy and clubs lived within their means was very real. However, as usual the SFA couldn’t miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The truth is that Scottish football is in the state it is in, not because Rangers died but because those with the power and mandate to effect the prognosis sat back and did nothing. I am sure that they believe that ‘time heals all wounds’ and that the longer this injustice is allowed to stand the more likely it will be accepted by the man in the street. No doubt the authorities feel it is in the national interest to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’. However I cannot accept this. I believe that it is vital that we are able to face up to reality so we can move on for the benefit of all football supporters.
Scottish football is at a crossroads right now, I think we all feel it. Rampant corruption has become so mainstream that many of our fellow supporters have began to accept this as the norm. However, it just doesn’t sit right with me and I suspect that many regular contributors and readers of this blog feel likewise.
We have quite lost our way and we live in a society which spends vast amounts of money paying people like Jack Irvine to ensure that we stay lost. The mainstream media treat us like little imbeciles and demand that we conform to their assumed ‘professional superiority’. The PR machine plays up to our stereotypes and feeds our fantasies while the poorest people pay to swallow their poisonous propaganda and relentless trivia.
So what can we do ? Clearly, battering out a few blog posts and strongly worded letters to the various authorities involved has been rewarded by the square root of FA.
How can we make this an opportunity for growth rather than contributing to the destruction of Scottish football ? It is not good enough to tear down a system unless we have a better system to replace it. However, I believe that it is not the system itself which is broken. It is that those charged with administering the system are hopelessly corrupted, hugely conflicted and unable to apply their rules without fear or favour.
By their incapacity and inaction (wilful or otherwise) the SFA have facilitated a motley crew of various spivs, chancers and con-artists to glean the last few meagre pickings from the bones of the emaciated loyal supporters of this new club purporting to be the once mighty Rangers. They have permitted these ne’er-do-wells to collectively appropriate many tens of millions of pounds from the Rangers fans, the creditors and the public purse. They have already allowed this corporate malignancy to spread to a new host, ‘The Rangers’, and the absence of ‘moral hazard’ makes it more likely that the disease will continue to spread.
Benjamin Franklin once said, “‘Nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”
Someone else once said, “The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it’s just sort of a tired feeling.”
I sense that we are all beginning to get tired of this. It is time to stand together, all football fans, face the facts and direct our anger against the officers of the SFA who have allowed this sham to develop into a catastrophe.
I have no doubt that my humble opinions expressed here will raise the ire of many deluded souls. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that the only people who get mad at you for speaking the truth are those that are living a lie.
RIP Big Man.
James Forrest says:
September 20, 2013 at 4:34 pm
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/aftershocks-and-broken-clocks/
Every effort the authorities make to help Rangers hurts them instead. This is the law of unintended consequences …
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Terrific blog James!
A must read.
Maybes our favourite Interpol fugitive and undercover rifc shareholder just dumped his on one Alexander Easdale via Blue pitch and Margarita?
Castofthousands says:
September 20, 2013 at 11:21 pm
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Except there are no “real ” investors only profit takers stuffin’ there jaiket pockets, trouser pockets, shirt pockets, socks, pants and shoes with as much as they can before the balloon goes up (and I’m not talking about Alistair)
Craig Whyte’s doomed bid???
And there was me thinking he had succeeded mightily – and all for one shiny pound coin! 😆
Carntyne says:
September 21, 2013 at 12:01 am
James Forrest says:
September 20, 2013 at 4:34 pm
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/aftershocks-and-broken-clocks/
Every effort the authorities make to help Rangers hurts them instead. This is the law of unintended consequences …
___________________________________________________________________________
Terrific blog James!
A must read.
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not really. He needs to refine his style and irrelevant comparisons. Otherwise I don’t disagree with the general content of his blog. Shorter and punchier is best.
I think I see a forthcoming scenario at the AGM where Mather and Stockbridge declare a victory on behalf of them and the Easdales. Later the door closes behind them and the “victors” are “asked “to leave.
We valued their contribution etc etc.
The only question being How much?
As we all drift off. I ask myself what will the SFA SPFL say if as may be the busboys win the day?
Wherefore fit and proper?
ianagain says:
September 21, 2013 at 12:47 am
As we all drift off. I ask myself what will the SFA SPFL say if as may be the busboys win the day?
Wherefore fit and proper?
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One of them has been found guilty of a criminal offence and spent time in jail but I suppose that was in the early days and a lot has been learnt since then. The other one has no convictions.
One can only conclude that these days they are the leading lights of the Legitimate Business Mens Club. Why else would the ever present Jack Irvine agree to act for them AND the club?
I also note Craigies tapes fall off after the share float.
Suddenly we have Current Charlotte.
Why?
scapaflow says:
September 20, 2013 at 8:36 pm
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It’s almost as if they want to confirm it’s all true.
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Not aimed at you scapaflow:
To save a 2nd post, re the domestic abuse thing. Though as an anti CFC/RFC person I have an inclination to believe it, the obvious occurs to me that both clubs have huge supports compared to other clubs so won’t they obviously have a bigger share of domestic abusers? Then of course add on that OF games as they used to exist were highly charged situations – which other clubs usually only experience on rare occasions – with supporters taking a lot of booze you have an obvious trigger for such abusers. So on thinking it over I tend to come down on the side of those that say this claim is at the least an exaggeration.
Drew Peacock says:
September 21, 2013 at 12:57
tcast
ianagain says:
September 21, 2013 at 12:47 am
As we all drift off. I ask myself what will the SFA SPFL say if as may be the busboys win the day?
Wherefore fit and proper?
__________________________________________________________________________
One of them has been found guilty of a criminal offence and spent time in jail but I suppose that was in the early days and a lot has been learnt since then. The other one has no convictions.
One can only conclude that these days they are the leading lights of the Legitimate Business Mens Club. Why else would Jack Irvine agree to act for them AND the club?
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Absolutely just the type of upstanding chaps needed to run a fitba club.
With the stalled Police investigations into the take over of RFC by CW, the investigation into the CF information, the investigation into collaboration of senior Police Officers and PR companies, and the investigation prompted by the SFO into the share issue the question to be asked is where will this end?
Any bets on how quickly this latest particular investigation goes cold?
You would think that at least one of these investigations would possibly either be nearing or actually be complete by now.
I can already hear the gears cranking into reverse to back away from any prospect of the truth.
Still no one comments on why every investigation prompted by an external authority, and by that I mean one outwith Scotland, simply enters a black hole of either incompetence, deceit, or complicity ultimately stalling never to be heard of again.
If this was some back water where some dictator ruled the roost you could understand why politicians would retreat from confronting organisations who did not carry out their duty to the public or journalists cowered behind their desks afraid of every word that they write.
If this was some back water…………………………… perhaps that is where the truth really lies. Scotland is a back water devoid of competence, skill, or integrity in various aspects of public life where, what are believed to be the norms of decency and professionalism, are actually a school of vested interest where the truth is to be denied and heads buried in the sand.
The only prospect it seems of anything being done in this tawdry scandal will be when the law is broken in England and a real investigation will take place where the cloak of invisibility will be torn and the truth laid bare.
And that will possibly be the biggest indictment on modern Scotland!!
justshatered says:
September 21, 2013 at 1:12 am
With the stalled Police investigations into the take over of RFC by CW, the investigation into the CF information, the investigation into collaboration of senior Police Officers and PR companies, and the investigation prompted by the SFO into the share issue the question to be asked is where will this end?
Any bets on how quickly this latest particular investigation goes cold?
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
Cold it will never get warm it wont happen.
scapaflow says:
September 20, 2013 at 8:22 pm
back in the RTC days, someone, (Slimshady I think), posted a good piece on how peoples backgrounds helped to determine which sort club they gravitated towards. Football clubs can be a huge part of someone’s identity, criticising their club can be too big a leap for some, no matter how educated, or intelligent they might be, its a primal thing….
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Well, I’ve learned a lot from listening to guys like you and Slim. And this sounds like the real deal as well. So, as ever, I am genuinely happy to get the benefit of other people’s thoughts on this matter.
Please forgive me though, if I continue with a consideration of what this means. I may well be wrong, and I don’t want to speak out of turn, but I think we are rapidly approaching a fairly seminal moment in this saga and it is important to me to have an appreciation of where we have got to on the cultural aspects of this saga.
“Its a primal thing…”
Yup. Sounds about right.
However civilised society demands that we rise above primal responses. It demands that we exercise restraint and attempt to apply reason to situations where emotion can sometimes overcome the better aspects of our nature.
We cannot change our backgrounds.
But we need not be slaves to our upbringing.
Where we see injustice and wrongdoing, we are morally compelled to say so and to act accordingly.
Putting on a football scarve or a replica top does not absolve us of this responsibility.
I choose to follow a team / club.
No-one forces me. There is no law of nature that requires me to do this. I choose it.
Same goes for every football fan.
Support. Follow. Don’t. Entirely up to you.
Yes you may feel some sort of peer pressure (or family pressure or … please fill in your reason here).
But ultimately it is up to you.
The behaviour we have seen over many years, from those charged with running Rangers (forget the worst element of the fans for the moment) should be enough to make any responsible adult have serious qualms about providing continued support for that organisation.
It frankly does not matter what your background or upbringing is.
If you continue to choose to support that organisation then you effectively condone its behaviour.
Iceman said it succinctly:
” when one supports an institution, then one gives succour to it and by extension, one is complicit in the failings of that institution. This is now where the Rangers’ fans stand. In short as individuals whilst they are not responsible for any of the conduct of this regime or of the previous incarnation’s faults, their very support en masse, is what feeds the greed, the supremacism and the intolerance of the club’s leadership.”
Where is the statement from Rangers condemning the abuse of Jim Spence?
Where is the statement from Rangers condemning the death threats received by PMG?
I could go on.
We are reaching a critical point in the story where I believe the prospects for social disorder continue to grow as tensions are ramped up on an almost daily basis.
It is past time for those upstanding members of the community who hold a progressive ideal for what Rangers might stand for in a modern Scotland to stand up and make themselves heard.
Sadly, all I hear is the sound of silence.
Again, Scapa – I genuinely appreciate the previous comment. This is in no way, meant to be anything other than a further consideration of where we are at culturally on this issue.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/20/monaco-money-ambition-not-many-supporters
Football, fear corruption and crime. Lovely
Zilch says:
Well, I’ve learned a lot from listening to guys like you and Slim. And this sounds like the real deal as well. So, as ever, I am genuinely happy to get the benefit of other people’s thoughts on this matter.
We are reaching a critical point in the story where I believe the prospects for social disorder continue to grow as tensions are ramped up on an almost daily basis.
It is past time for those upstanding members of the community who hold a progressive ideal for what Rangers might stand for in a modern Scotland to stand up and make themselves heard.
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Football is not the true measure of culture or indeed the society. I think the existence of this blog exaggerates the influence of Rangers and their political baggage in Scotland.
Yes there are klansmen trying to manouevre for position and taking their acolytes down a path of Timmy hatred but in the grand scale of things Scotland has moved on from that sort of pish. Scotland is a civilised nation and there are more of us than them.
Drew Peacock says:
September 21, 2013 at 1:40 am
Scotland is a civilised nation and there are more of us than them.
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Hang on Droopy, tell that to Dr Poon.
There are more of us than them. The problem is that there is more of them in positions of power and influence. It is slowly changing but we should be in no doubt that the influence is still there.
Thanks @Smugas & CoT for your thoughts on this:
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@CharlotteFakes
Unauthorised return of share capital and other shenanigans inside RIFC. The cover up has gone on long enough. The Murrays are fully aware.
1:53pm – 20 Sep 13
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More since since I had my Horlicks — lawyers have removed the sideletter doc to the 5-way. Took their time about that.
What are ‘The Murrays’? Has someone bought their history too 🙂
Re the Easdales
Just a little ready reckoner to show the state of play
It has been announced Sandy Easdale has control over 15,484,295 voting rights.
Sandy’s personal share holding is 2,842,957
His Brother James as a director has declared 357, 143
Margarita gave control of their 2,600,000
Blue Pitch gave control of their, 4,000,000
Therefore the total knowns are 9,800,100
The total unknowns are 5,684,195
So the Easdales have got friends and families holding stock of under the 3% threshold for notification (which is around 1.95m shares) and/or other small holders with under 3% have given them their proxies.
In total they have announced they have control of 23.79 % of the votes.
Which of course means there are another 76.21% of the voting rights out there and who knows how they will go.
So who do we have left?
From those with over the 3% notification threshold we know Laxeys now hold 4,250,000 or 6.53%
From the list in the Prospectus who is still around?
Presumably sold up – Charles Green 5,000,200 8.67%
Hargreave Hale Limited 4,949,000 8.58%
Artemis Investment Management LLP 4,286,000 7.43%
Proxies to the Easdales – Blue Pitch Holding 4,000,000 6.94%
Mike Ashley 3,000,000 5.20%
Proxies to the Easdales – Margarita Funds Holding Trust 2,600,000 4.51%
Cazenove Capital Management Limited 2,450,000 4.25%
Presumably sold up – Richard Hughes 2,200,000 3.82%
Presumably sold up – Imran Ahmad 2,200,000 3.82%
Legal & General Investment Management Limited 2,000,000 3.47%
Insight Investment Management(Global) Limited 1,900,000 3.30%
Craig Mather 1,800,000 3.12%
James Forrest says:
September 20, 2013 at 4:34 pm
http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/aftershocks-and-broken-clocks/
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Just read the piece sitting with my tea and toast and I have to say it is an excellent read with a deep insight into the problems of the Scottish Game and what is needed to save it from destruction.
I particularly hope that Rangers supporters take the time to read it as there is much for them to think about and a mapping of the way forward for their club. I have always believed that the future of Rangers will ultimately lie in the hands of its support and they will end-up with the club they deserve and that could mean one not playing at Ibrox.
Isolationism seldom provides a long-term solution and this is something that has to be addressed by Bears. I believe that time truly isrunning out for the decent silent-majority to act and even if they can’t take control of their club they can exert meaningful power over future direction through their Blue £. Instead of external boycotts they should be looking closer to home because the lice feeding off them will only jump ship once there is no more blood to be sucked.
But in any successful move to put Good Rangers Men and hopefully Women in charge then the non-footballing baggage has to go. And Bears have to stop looking for off the radar Billionaires to own and run their club.
They need business people with integrity and ability on the board who can operate a sustainable business model relevant to playing in Scotland with all the financial strictures that imposes. They do not need Sugar Bears with dubious motives and even more dubious finances paying cash with the promise of plenty more to buy a seat on the Board.
Zilch no offence taken.
I have very little sympathy for Ranger’s supporters left, the Days of Rage and the Hunting of Jim Spence have taken care of that.
As a group the things which underpin their identity have been chipped away over a couple of generations. The industries which once guaranteed economic and social position for the rank and file, have gone, and have not been replaced. Wider society has grown ever more intolerant of their little cultural foibles, finding things like their wee parades, embarrassing, irritating and laughable by turn. Their political power is vanishing, for example in the Monklands by-election, following the death of John Smith, the Tory candidate thought it was OK to march behind the band, that couldn’t happen now. What public political support they do have tends to be of the thuggish sort of Ian Davidson, he of the March on Hampden, or the thick as mince sort exemplified by Brian Donohoe. They do still have powerful friends in the background, but they are a dying breed, and they are not really being replaced. They can’t even look across the water for how things should be anymore, the Chuckle Brothers act of Paisley and McGuiness has taken care of that.
They have become an ugly anachronism, lashing out at a world that has passed them by
wottpi says:
September 21, 2013 at 8:59 am
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A worthwhile exercise but we don’t know on what terms any proxy has been given and if there is any truth in a SFO investigation then proxies could change in the blink of an eye.
We also don’t actually know what shareholders actually transferred from TRFCL to RIFC Plc because of the incomplete Annual Return filed by Rangers to Companies House. The point of that return is that all shareholders must be listed no matter the percentage of share held by them.
That would give us a much clearer insight into which TRFCL shareholders were entitled to swap their TRFCL shares on a 1-for-1 basis for RIFC Plc shares.
The belated action by Companies House to demand TRFCL actually submit a fully completed Annual Return is quite interesting because if Companies House have actually decided they have to get off their backside and do something then it means IMO that there is a lot happening in the background yet to be made public.
Did Green not say that Sandy Easdale already had control over his shareholding, ahead of the actual purchase?
Danish Pastry says:
September 21, 2013 at 8:41 am
Thanks @Smugas & CoT for your thoughts on this:
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@CharlotteFakes
Unauthorised return of share capital and other shenanigans inside RIFC. The cover up has gone on long enough. The Murrays are fully aware.
1:53pm – 20 Sep 13
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More since since I had my Horlicks — lawyers have removed the sideletter doc to the 5-way. Took their time about that. What are ‘The Murrays’? Has someone bought their history too 🙂
================================================================
On ‘The Murrays’ – if someone bought that tainted history complete with fairytale appendix then anything more than 1p would be far too high a price.
On the removal of the side letter well looks as though it must have been genuine 😆
I see that Leggo’s Blog on the SFO investigation allegation as well as the PF involvement has been taken down.
Well I wonder exactly what is behind that? Is it because of a move by Official Authorities or is it by lawyers representing Rangers or current or previous Board Members?
The tale, as ever, deepens with more twists and turns.
Unbelievable amount of spam registrations (with curiously abusive usernames 😆 ) recently has forced us to add a CAPTCHA to the registration and login pages.
We will remove it from the login pages when we get rid of the dodgy registrations.
Thanks for your patience.
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/09/21/sandy-easdales-grip-on-rangers-tightens-but-when-did-the-plc-know/
New Blog up by Paul McC. To answer your question Paul, I think even the Great Architect, sorry Administrator, would find it difficult to square the circle, and persuade even something as supine as the SFA board, that the Fit and Proper test could be met in this particular case….
Drew Peacock says:
September 21, 2013 at 12:25 am
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James Forrest says:
September 20, 2013 at 4:34 pm
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Terrific blog James!
A must read.
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not really. He needs to refine his style and irrelevant comparisons. Otherwise I don’t disagree with the general content of his blog. Shorter and punchier is best.
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Refine his style how?
What are the irrelevant comparisons you refer to?
[]
Saturday morning musings, I’m now certain in my own mind that Charlotte is either;
A current employee of those in control of Ibrox or a Media House production, before you hit that TD let me explain my thoughts.
At the fore front of my thinking is the lack of action on any leak so far, from national/local media, the football authorities and any other Scottish regulatory body. Lets take them one at a time and try to put a reasonable explanation for each.
SFA / SPL. Quite simply, totally and utterly complicit in attempting to shoehorn RFC1872 back into the SPL after a simple pre-pack admin, that failed disastrously and then we had 5-way agreements and side letters produced by the SPL to ignore side letters produced by RFC. The silence is maintained by leaking (for short periods) documents that should under any other circumstance produce resignations.
Scottish Media. The print media is very worried about a drop in sales figures that could finally bury them, even though all publications seem to be on some sort of boycott list. STV/Clyde, all rangers fan boys, STV even had a media contract with the dead ones, don’t expect any negative comments from them. BBC, is caught in it’s own little world trying to maintain a politically correct ‘balance’ that doesn’t offend anyone; there is also the attacks on Spency which shows the kind of threats that will happen if the Bears are offended by something that doesn’t fit in with what they are being fed.
National (UK) Media, are on the whole disinterested in a Scottish club going bust, it seems to happen quite regularly in England(or so we are told). Channel 4, were ready to run with a story, (I even had Sky+ all set) but dropped it like a rotten turd. They have since used Leveson to try to hide behind and Alex Thomson suddenly seems disinterested, either they discovered the true source of the leaks was actually a part of the scam or they were told to drop it by someone in Government.
Regulatory Bodies, have all without fail come up with some contrivance that apportions some blame on the ibrox outfit but always falls short of finding them fully guilty and therefore due a punishment. The only way to perceive this, is interference that comes from Holyrood in some form. Phrases like ‘Civil unrest’ and ‘Armageddon’ are the domain of governments and disaster planning, nowhere else.
Now, if I were planning a huge scam;
I’d need to hide it, I’d therefore need control over any media outlets and the ability to shut the rest up, through fear.
I’d need to be sure that rumours getting out could be rubbished and laughed off, I’d need to be able to feed alternate rumours.
I’d need leverage over any regulatory body that would get in my way and have the others beholden to a higher power too scared to act.
As for Charlotte, her targets change from individuals looking to escape Ibrox under a cloud, to keeping the SFA in check and occasional attacks on Jack Irvine. It’s all mana to us bampots, but if you have control over whats mentioned above then you can feed(and remove) stuff at your own whim while maintaining (mostly) complete control of the narrative.
I think however that the attacks on Spency may have been a move too far, the BBC published an apology over his comments with undue, almost rehearsed haste, yet were slow and abysmal in making sure the ‘support’ he received was properly reported.
But over all of this is the role of the Scottish Government in maintaining silence and a status quo before the referendum. As for Strathclyde Police / Police Scotland, hell mend them when the truth about how they are delaying / hiding / leaking investigations into RFC, for me they are possibly the worst of the lot.
No sign of audited accounts from Ibrox yet?
ecobhoy says:
September 21, 2013 at 9:52 am
On ‘The Murrays’ – if someone bought that tainted history complete with fairytale appendix then anything more than 1p would be far too high a price.
On the removal of the side letter well looks as though it must have been genuine 😆
_________________________________________________________________________
Since the emphasis in response to CF has been on lawyers galvanised to try to have the revelations removed from view, a pointless exercise since everyone now knows what they are, and not focusing on whether they are true, it can only lead to the assumption that Charlotte’s fakes aren’t.
It would appear that Charlotte the harlot has gone from zero to hero over on ff
“Legoland and Charlotte Fakes both having information removed from the internet today?
My my someone is worried…
What was it AJ said?
Follow the money”
scapaflow on September 21, 2013 at 9:34 am
41 0 Rate This
I have very little sympathy for Ranger’s supporters left, the Days of Rage and the Hunting of Jim Spence have taken care of that.
————
You know scapa, that is exactly how it’s affected me. You hold on to a bit of hope that someone, anyone will express some sort of regret, or sense of reason but it doesn’t happen. Even what I consider reasonable fans on the interweb seem to have jumped on the anti-Jim Spence wagon. Sad.
I have a sense now that no one outside of the loyal will shed a tear if Sevco Scotland and its associated club were to disappear from the face of the earth.
According to Bill McMurdo, the favoured son of the board, Mr Leggat was threatened with legal action by RIFC, hence the removal of his post
“One prominent blogger has been left in no doubt of the resolve of the club to take legal action against unsubstantiated claims.. This has resulted in said blogger’s latest article being removed from his site.”
The dirty war for control of ranger’s seems to be getting dirtier
ForresDee says:
September 21, 2013 at 11:12 am
============================
I believe TRFC still have a contract with STV (Rangerstvtv)? Their media platform is far superior to Celtic’s. I have been over to watch some highlights when things have not been going well. Maybe STV wanted the deal to be kept silent.
upthehoops says:
September 21, 2013 at 11:23 am
No sign of audited accounts from Ibrox yet?
_________________________________
They’ll be along any day, week, month or year now.
These things can’t be rushed in case any inaccuracies give a false impression of the true state of affairs in the club/company.
Patience is required.
I don’t think Mr Knocks (sic) means this quite the way it reads, but the Freudian slip is telling
“Originally Posted by John knocks View Post
Amazing how the so called clubs lawyers can get tough on Rangers bloggers who disagree with what they are doing but as of yet tim bloggers such as RTC, `tarred with sickening sectarian brush` Phil and the struck off lawyer have been spouting crap and continue to do so with not so much as a whimper by RFC. Say it all really !!!”
“So called club” indeed 😳
TSFM says:
September 21, 2013 at 10:26 am
Unbelievable amount of spam registrations (with curiously abusive usernames 😆 ) recently has forced us to add a CAPTCHA to the registration and login pages.
We will remove it from the login pages when we get rid of the dodgy registrations.
Thanks for your patience.
==========================================================
I think the PR machine is currently in high gear and in order to keep Bears in the dark, deflected and confused then the strategy is to attack and deflect any sites providing info that might give Bears cause to think about their internal problems.
One of the main things in a period like this IMO is self-restraint – and I’m not talking about you Charlotte get back in the box 👿 – dont respond to spurious posts and most of all don’t feed trolls.
ecobhoy says:
September 21, 2013 at 1:04 pm
Its beginning to look like events are moving beyond anyone’s control, its getting very interesting down Govan way….
scapaflow says:
September 21, 2013 at 1:33 pm
0 0 Rate This
ecobhoy says:
September 21, 2013 at 1:04 pm
Its beginning to look like events are moving beyond anyone’s control, its getting very interesting down Govan way….
_________________
Judging by the SFA’s silence, I suspect they’ve known it for some time
Lot of comings and goings at hampden today??? Is something going on
McMurdo’s piece on Easdale proudly trumpets the power Easdale has built on share proxies.
And the SMSM blogging equivalent of succulent lamb swallower states:
I will ignore making any comment about poor old Walter’s business judgement and acumen as I think his own words betray his level of incompetence for chairing a Plc Board or even serving as a NED.
I am much more interested in the backing that McMurdo claims is coming from Blue Pitch and Margarita and perhaps McMurdo can actually tel us or his fellow rangers fans who exactly Blue Pitch and Margarita are. Does McMurdo have a clue or is he just regurgitating a swallowed PR line.
Perhaps Blue Pitch and Margarita like the cut of an easdale jib but would Sandy recognise the cut of a Bermudan sloop or Turks & Caicos clipper. I really wonder.
And then there is the curious anomaly in McMurdo’s statement when he mentions Sandy being supported by Margarita. For those with a memory span longer than McMurdo we remember that when Margarita first appeared on the scene Rangers didn’t seem to know who they were and thought they might emanate from the Caribbean tax haven island of T&C.
Possibly Media House could throw some light on the mystery as they are acquainted with financial issues on the island through the consultancy work they have carried out there.
But what intrigues me about the use of the ‘Margarita’ name by McMurdo is that the Rangers Board Minutes dated 31 October 2012 notes that the 2.6 million Margarita Trust shareholding had only been conditionally allotted to the trust and that the shares were actually registered in the name of ATP Investments Ltd.
I really doubt if McMurdo has a clue as to who the real people behind Blue Pitch and Margarita are and he seems to be 12 months out of date when it comes ATP Investments Ltd. Have they given their proxy to Easdale because there seems to be a huge doubt as to whether Margarita have any rangers shares.
Of course little ‘problems’ like this could have been easily cleared-up if TRFCL had actually filed a complete Annual Return as legally required.
So my advice is: Count your proxies, count them one by one 🙄
I am moved to register my thanks to Sir David Murray for almost singlehandedly killing Rangers FC .
And also for his contribution in securing the likely demise of the new club.
The red brick facade of the main stand at Ibrox reminds me of a headstone on a grave,
right down to the name RANGERS FC at the top.
Ibrox – Rangers’ grave.
Sir David couldn’t have planned it better.
Brenda says:
September 21, 2013 at 1:43 pm
10 0 Rate This
Lot of comings and goings at hampden today??? Is something going on
———–
Could be forensic scientists searching the ruins to discover what actually happened to the SFA.
DP @ 3.08pm
Well to be fair Saturday is a working day for the sfa 😉
Brenda says:
September 21, 2013 at 3:15 pm
1 0 Rate This
DP @ 3.08pm
Well to be fair Saturday is a working day for the sfa …
——–
Depends how you define ‘work’. But in theory a good time to conduct business out of the public eye — what with all the hacks at the fitba.
DP @ 3.22pm
To Sevco fans – including all those who work in the SFA offices at Hampden.
Rage is a self-isolating force.
Hate-filled anger drives the people around you away from you.
That’s why Sevco are stuck on a desert island in the sea of public opinion.
How to return to the mainland ?
Dump the rage & bury the hate.
Oh and there’s a few tax bills still to be paid.
If not, Ibrox will come to be like Alcatraz
with all the inmates doing time
till they pay their debt to Society.
It’s a no brainer.
Manandboy there’s a few fair points in there. I don’t really feel any rage towards people outside of Rangers with regards to their downfall. I feel let down in some situations, sure. I believe the SFA fined Rangers, without going back and checking to get all the details absolutely right here, along the lines of for allowing Craig Whyte to be involved when he was not a fit and proper person. What I feel let down by in that circumstance is that if they had such a test for having a person involved in a football club I sure wish they’d protected their member club by preventing him from becoming involved. There’s one example. But that’s not rage, that’s understandable disappointment. I certainly don’t feel any rage towards Jim Spence as a most recent example of saying something that to be blunt was fairly innocuous.
However, one thing I would provide to you by way of retort; if you want to address a point to Rangers fans, don’t address them as Sevco fans and talk about Sevco. It will just wind people up and doesn’t need to be done. The company originally called Sevco changed its name to Rangers anyway, so its factually inaccurate to keep referring to them by an old name. Don’t get me wrong, I understand why you and others do it, I know the reasons behind it, but it feels like cheap point scoring and gets in the way of your point when people of my ilk read it.
I think we need some insider info on whats going down at Hampden today ,I think I will get a hackney back from the pub tonight ,I will let you know what the driver tells me.
RyanGosling says:
September 21, 2013 at 5:51 pm
If the SFA or anyone else had tried to stop the Motherwell Born Billionaire buying Rangers from Sir David Murray, and then going on to give Ally McCoist a £25m (front loaded) war chest to dominate Scottish football then there would have been carnage.
Well you know it.
RyanGosling says:
September 21, 2013 at 5:51 pm
The company originally called Sevco changed its name to Rangers anyway, so its factually inaccurate to keep referring to them by an old name.
______________________________
RG, correct me if I’m wrong.
The new company was called Sevco Scotland Ltd and it’s name was changed to The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
The old Rangers FC are in liquidation.
I used to call them Rangers, among other things, just as the Berrs call Celtic, Celtic,among other things.
I’m not going to call the new Rangers the same name as the old Rangers, now am I.
So maybe you can help me out ?
What name would you like your club to be called ?
RyanGosling – your anger at SFA is misplaced for “allowing” Craig Whyte in – not that I would want to defend SFA in any way – however, to be fair….
Once Jackson had put the story out of a billionaire with untold wealth etc, how could anyone then say to Rangers fans, sorry but he is not the one for you.
Your anger should be directed at Jackson and Irvine for covering it up and making him out to be exactly what the Peepil desired in charge of Rangers – someone with a lot of money prepared to fund the club. You should also be angry as well with the likes of Alastair Johnston, Martin Bain and Paul Murray – all of whom knew what Craig was bringing to the table. And as for David Murray – well…..
With the propaganda of Irvine and Jackson combined with the silence form Rangers boardroom, how could Regan say he cannot be the owner. Rangers fans would have gone ballistic at the new found wealth being denied them and it would have been Lawwell stopping Rangers from beating Celtic.
Rangers fans welcomed him – the boardroom gave it to him silently – and the PR machines went into full force.
Phil and RTC all told you he had no wealth – and were lambasted by Rangers fans – jealous was the nicest insult!
You and your fellow fans did not want to know – don’t blame Reagan
RyanGosling says:
September 21, 2013 at 5:51 pm
1 1 Rate This
… However, one thing I would provide to you by way of retort; if you want to address a point to Rangers fans, don’t address them as Sevco fans and talk about Sevco. It will just wind people up and doesn’t need to be done …
———–
Ryan, I feel as long as there is an insistence on being the same club, just minus the crippling debt, and a non-acceptance of liquidation, then all other fans will use the word Sevco. No one is about to endorse the outrageous propaganda put out by Green & co in order to mislead fans into parting with their cash. If it had been any other club you may well have seen a type of ‘Real Rangers’ established by fans as the true inheritors of the old football ethos. Even though this meant playing at a rented stadium on a low budget I expect such a club would have met a great deal of respect and understanding, certainly if it was purely a football club. I’m afraid Sevco, as someone pointed out here, is what is on the birth certificate and it’s now a part of the new club’s history.
Tif Finn yeah there probably would have been some uproar. But let me put it to you this way; even if there was, was that not their responsibility to do so? You’ve got to bear in mind that the first people hurt by any SFA pandering to Rangers were Rangers.
Manandboy, as you correctly state their name is The Rangers Football Club Limited. There is a club called Dunfermline Athletic Football Club, commonly referred to as Dunfermline. So how about we refer to The Rangers Football Club as Rangers? Why would you not call the new Rangers by the same name as the old Rangers? We all know who you’re talking about anyway. If you like then I would propose that on this forum when people refer to Rangers it is acknowledged that if a reference is made to Rangers with regards to actions before 2012 they mean the old Rangers, but if they mean actions beyond 2012 they mean the new Rangers? Convoluted possibly. Alex Thomson, champion here for so long, said it quite well I thought when he said that the idea of a club goes beyond the legal identity, i.e. we all know what we’re talking about when we refer to Rangers, old or new.
Exiled Celt – your points sidestep my original question. Regardless of the other factors you mention, did the SFA not fail in their duty towards a member club?
RyanGosling, I always call them ‘the Ibrox club’. It describes them accurately, and is inoffensive.
You do know ‘the old Ibrox club’ tried to put Stenhousemuir out the league in the ‘sixties. don’t you?
…. with all the tradition and history from 2012. How can anyone argue that the Sevco name is not important… inexplicable IMO.
RyanGosling
You’ve got to bear in mind that the first people hurt by any SFA pandering to Rangers were Rangers.
****
Seriously?
How about all the people on here who went to see their teams and have stopped because they can see the panderings as being corruption? Or that now realise its a burst baw?
How about fans of Spartans? Or fans of clubs who are being denied a promotion (Peterhead) due to RFC being allowed to sign players they cannot afford.
You need to realize that there are others in Scotland affected by the panderings, but also more impacted than Rangers in a negative way. You got off lucky – you got a team with no meaningful transfer ban playing in a league they have finagled their way into – all while not paying their debts to take on the mantle of the prior club.
RyanGosling says:
September 21, 2013 at 6:27 pm
Tif Finn yeah there probably would have been some uproar. But let me put it to you this way; even if there was, was that not their responsibility to do so? You’ve got to bear in mind that the first people hurt by any SFA pandering to Rangers were Rangers.
=========================================
Actually no, as I understand it the club is supposed to certify whether any new owner is a fit and proper person or not.
So, Rangers must have lied to the SFA when they made that particular declaration.
It’s a mad system, but it is the one in place as far as I am aware.
With regards calling the new club Rangers, I have no issue with it, I do it all the time. It’s like the 5 stars, meaningless.
Exiled Celt yes, seriously. I said first people, and I meant that. If the SFA had properly investigated and decided that Craig Whyte was not a fit and proper person before he ever got involved this whole story would have panned out very differently. Differently for fans of all other teams, different for fans of Spartans, differently for Peterhead. But firstly, before (chronologically) any of that, different for Rangers and their fans.
I’m gonna stop coming back on most / all posts now as I fear I’m hogging the forum and want to hear more about the comings and goings at Hampden today, but will keep reading and check in later. Thanks to all for the conversation thus far.
RyanGosling says:
September 21, 2013 at 6:29 pm
Exiled Celt – your points sidestep my original question. Regardless of the other factors you mention, did the SFA not fail in their duty towards a member club?
***
I did not sidestep it. And no they did not fail Rangers fans – they have failed Scottish football in their objective to keep a team in blue playing at Ibrokes come what may – no matter what the cost to everyone else.
Suggest you realize that SFA actually were your best friend – including allowing CW in – as the war chest at Ibrokes was empty anyway and David Murray knew well the game was up – he gambled with the club – and it failed.
If Sir David Murray was able to be duped (ahem!) what chance did Reagan have LOL!
RyanGosling says:
September 21, 2013 at 5:51 pm
I feel let down in some situations, sure. I believe the SFA fined Rangers, without going back and checking to get all the details absolutely right here, along the lines of for allowing Craig Whyte to be involved when he was not a fit and proper person. What I feel let down by in that circumstance is that if they had such a test for having a person involved in a football club I sure wish they’d protected their member club by preventing him from becoming involved.
++++++++++++++++
You feel let down? The SFA fine your club, instead of applying the proper available penalty, expulsion, and you feel disappointed? I really think you’re having us on. I’ll tell you what, give us all a real laugh, and tell us how YOU think the club should have been punished. Let me guess- not at all? That really is the “Rangers Way”, rules and punishments are for others, but don’t apply down Ibrox way. The SFA (or their “Rangers Minded” so-called judicial panel), were quite consciously trying to do Rangers a favour by fining them. Is that difficult to grasp? In most other leagues in the world they would have been booted out, that is what you need to understand.
As for blaming the SFA for the Whyte takeover, please read the rules. It is for the clubs to obey the rules, including the “fit and proper” test. That is the club’s responsibility. It is blindingly obvious that the SFA does not have the resources to actively police the “fit and proper” test over 42 clubs. The SFA are NOT the CIA. The SFA must rely on being told the truth by its members. In this case they were blatantly lied to. So whose fault is that? The SFA’s ? Or the liar’s?
Your post really epitomises the current victim mentality of the Ibrox support. No blame for anything can ever fall on “Rangers”. It is all somebody else’s fault, regardless of facts, regardless of truth, regardless of even the most elementary concepts of justice or fair play.
Your post also neatly explains why I have moved from a position of total indifference regarding the future of “Rangers” eighteen months ago, to my current position of wanting Scottish football to be freed of this vile affliction once and for all and at any cost. If only the English conference would have them, because I really don’t want Scottish Junior football polluted just like the senior game has been. Rangers bring absolutely nothing positive to Scottish football, and lots of negatives. They should have been kicked out.
So it’s the SFA’s job to protect a football club from itself?
I don’t hold the SFA in high regard, but to expect them to perform such a task is asking a lot of even the best run organisation.
The best people to ensure those running a club are the club themselves. If they let charlatans and cowboys in to run the club, then that’s their lookout. Sometimes it’s obvious someone shouldn’t be let anywhere near runing a club, other times it’s not. It’s difficult to tell up front. Even someone with a criminal record coudl turn out to be a terrific custodian of a club, having learned from past mistakes.
If the SFA hold clubs to account for their behaviour and actions in a fair and consistent manner, that’s all I ask. I wish they would.
neepheid says:
September 21, 2013 at 6:40 pm
Just being pedantic.
Rangers couldn’t have been kicked out of Scottish football, the club died.
However I do agree that the new club should not have been allowed to just walk in, certainly not the way it happened with a place straight into Scottish senior football.
[Removed: Abuse]
Tif Finn says:
September 21, 2013 at 6:50 pm
0 0 Rate This
neepheid says:
September 21, 2013 at 6:40 pm
Just being pedantic.
Rangers couldn’t have been kicked out of Scottish football, the club died.
However I do agree that the new club should not have been allowed to just walk in, certainly not the way it happened with a place straight into Scottish senior football.
+++++++++++++++
If the “old club” had been expelled, as they clearly should have been before liquidation, then there would have been no RFC membership of the SFA to transfer to Sevco. Since Sevco could not obtain a new membership (they needed a 3 year history for that) it would have been game over at that point. Timing was everything in the blatant fraud that allowed Sevco to obtain the RFC membership. The SFA did everything and anything to get that membership to Sevco. And then get criticised by people like Ryan. Irony doesn’t even begin to describe it.
I don’t think a Rangers fan expressing a different opinion from your own is sufficient reason to decribe them as a troll. Unless simply being a fan of the Ibrox club is itself the distinguishing characteristic of a troll in here.
[Agreed NT. Ryan is not singing from the same hymn sheet as most, but he is as valuable a contributor on here as anyone – and certainly not a troll. We could do without all the mock outrage and abuse. The post you mention has been removed – TSFM]
New from Charlotte : “I have evidence of serious financial irregularity” – not my words, but that of a high ranking official inside RIFC several months ago.”
Scottish football needs a strong Arbroath.
Not to mention the shenanigans at G4S, why Lord Reid has not resigned from that board, is quite beyond me.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/g4s-and-serco-face-50-million-fraud-inquiry-8703245.html
neepheid says:
September 21, 2013 at 7:04 pm
Fair point.
borussiabeefburg says:
September 21, 2013 at 6:34 pm
11 0 Rate This
RyanGosling, I always call them ‘the Ibrox club’. It describes them accurately, and is inoffensive.
You do know ‘the old Ibrox club’ tried to put Stenhousemuir out the league in the ‘sixties. don’t you?
————–
Very good way of dealing with it bbb. I try to use Ibrox too, but as the threats continue and as the new club leads a charmed life thanks to the inaction of multiple bodies, then the use of Sevco becomes appropriate as a point of reference. Some fans like Ryan may take it personally, but it’s small beer compared to the outrage and offence caused to fans of Scottish football by the goings on at Ibrox.
Since Craig Mather has assured everyone that the club is not about to go bust (and that must be true because he told us), perhaps any activity at Hampden was totally unrelated to the mysterious goings on at Ibrox.
From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]
Application of the term troll is subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. Like any pejorative term, it can be used as an ad hominem attack, suggesting a negative motivation.
———————————————————————————————————————————————
It is a matter of thresholds I guess. Continued repetition of the same, controversial in the context argument is going to lead to suspicions and then accusations of being a troll.
Ecobhoy was on the money earlier with his reminder not to feed the trolls.
Reminder to self: restraint required…
[Removed: OT]