The Immortality Project – or – Death and Denial – Guest Post by Humble Pie
Death has a tendency to put everything else into perspective.
My family recently suffered a bereavement. It wasn’t a sudden death but it was still far too quick and far too soon for any of us to get our heads around. As our loved one’s illness progressed, each of us, in our own way, began to prepare for the inevitable. In the end, whilst it was not unexpected, it was nevertheless very traumatic, for everyone concerned.
Grief is a strange and often debilitating set of emotions. Even now, a few months on, when the intense sadness and tears have given way (mostly) to disbelief, we still find it hard to fully comprehend what has happened. We might never completely ‘come to terms’ with that fact, however, we do accept that it DID happen, much as we all wish that it hadn’t.
Many of you will be familiar with the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of grief; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Well, I am aware of having experienced each of these stages over the last year, as well as a couple of others which I wasn’t prepared for (a lot of personal reflection, a little guilt and a not insignificant amount of pain).
It seems to me that the Rangers supporters have been purposefully ensnared in an interminable cycle of the first two stages of KR; alternating between the denial of the death of Rangers and anger at what they feel has been done to their beloved club then back again to denial. This, as any first year psychology student will tell you, is a very unhealthy state of mind which, if not addressed, can quickly lead to physiological and behavioural problems.
At its lowest level, for example, people throughout the ages have continued to set places at the dinner table for their long-dead loved ones. They know in their hearts that the person has died but are comforted by the familiarity of doing the same things that they have always done. However, in extreme cases people have even kept and maintained the actual cadavers of the deceased, dressed them, talked to them and watched TV with them, in a state of absolute denial.
In archaeology, accepting and recognising the inevitability of death through conducting ceremonial burial services is considered to be one of the very first signs of a civilised people. You see, grief is a uniquely human and cathartic process i.e. it can produce ‘a feeling of being cleansed emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically as a result of an intense emotional experience’.
In short, grief is ultimately a good thing which leads you through a series of natural psychological steps towards acknowledgement of an unalterable situation, allowing you to take stock, re-evaluate and start to move on with your own life in a positive way.
That is what should have happened with the fans of the old Rangers.
Instead, this ‘never-ending cycle of the undead’ was positively encouraged by those many unscrupulous individuals who saw a way of making a fast buck from maintaining the ‘Then, Now and Forever’ illusion. Worse still, this resurrection fantasy is being facilitated by the very people whom we have entrusted to stop this kind of thing from happening in the first place. If only the SFA or the MSM had told them the truth, they might have had a chance to actually face up to the situation.
Unfortunately, these two bodies were so complicit in Rangers demise, so right up to their necks in the brown smelly stuff, that they were too afraid to face the inevitable anger which would have rightly come their way. So, they made up grim fairy tales to feed to the bereaved souls about non-existent ‘holding companies’, the ethereal ‘club’ which transcends death and by suggesting that it is ‘all a matter of opinion’.
Ernest Becker, in his 1973 Pulitzer Prize winning book ‘The Denial of Death’, posits that “human civilization is no more than an elaborate, symbolic defence mechanism against the knowledge of our own mortality”. This fear of death acts as an emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival instincts.
‘By embarking on what Becker refers to as an ‘immortality project’, in which a person creates or becomes part of something which they feel will last forever, the person feels they too have become part of something eternal; something that will never die, compared to their physical body that will die one day’. When this ‘immortality project’ is threatened it leads inevitably to fear, depression, loss of identity and sense of purpose.
In that case, the initial reaction of the fans to the imminent demise of Rangers was entirely predictable and understandable. “No way, this can’t happen to us, we are the people”. However, as soon as the full realisation of their club’s inexorable slide into liquidation began to sink in, came the expected anger. But towards whom should their righteous wrath be directed?
“Who did this to us, who are these people?” they cried. “Not I”, said Sir Murray of the Mint, “for I was duped”, “Nor I”, said President Ogilvie, “for it was never my role”. “Nor I”, said Mr Smith, “for I never knew nothing or nothing”. “Not us”, squealed the media monkeys in unison, “for that’s what we were told”, “Nor us”, said the SPL “it was nothing to do with us”.
“Who then?, we demand to know who these people are”, howled the horrified hordes. “T’was the Whyte knight”, they all concurred, “he alone caused this calamity”. “And the bampots”, sneered the slimy slug. “And the taxman”, puffed the pundits. “And the unseen hand of Mr Lawwell”, whispered the bilious bears from the safety of their den.
There were even those who tried to warn them, not least Hugh Adam, Phil Mac and RTC but they didn’t want to know. Even when their very own Messrs Green and Traynor spelt out, in no uncertain terms, that liquidation meant the death of their club, still they chose wilful ignorance. The MSM, with access to the same information, encouraged them to keep their heads firmly ensconced, ostrich stylee, on the banks of that ironically blue and white river in Egypt. Which just goes to show ‘you can lead a lamb to knowledge but you can’t make it think’
The point though is that the Rangers fans have heard the truth and once you have heard something you cannot unhear it. Even if you reject it, even if you deny it, it gnaws away at the back of your mind, infecting your subconscious.
Almost a year ago, I posted the following on TSFM. http://theinternetbampot.wordpress.com/2012/09/ in which I postulated that the SFA were too frightened to say anything which might imply that The Rangers were a new club.
Looking back at that post, I am amazed at how little the landscape has changed.
A year on and it has become apparent that the corporate cancer that destroyed Rangers has continued to metastasize in its new host. Charlotte’s revelations may have shown us that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than we first suspected. However, in my humble opinion, the information provided has only succeeded in ‘poisoning the well’ and deflecting attention from the main culprits in this disaster. Layer upon layer of complexity has been added to an already opaque story and the majority of her utterances appear designed to engage the more enquiring minds on this forum and consume their excess mental energy.
I know that some people are bored with this ‘debate’ but, to my mind, the single most important step for the redemption of Scottish football is the fan’s acceptance that The Rangers, who currently ply their trade in the SPFL First Division, are a new club. Once they have accepted that then everything else that they perceive has happened to them will begin to make sense. They will see that rather than everyone having a fly kick at them when they were down, most were actually trying to help them. It will also dawn on them that the very people who have been telling them that there is an anti-Rangers conspiracy against them are actually the same ones who are screwing them over.
Rangers were not relegated to div 3, The Rangers applied as a new club and were granted entry into the bottom tier of Scottish football. They are not banned from European competition, merely ineligible as a new club without the requisite financial ‘history’. Any reference to ‘rulings’ from ECA, ASA, the BBC Trust and any internal or so-called ‘independent’ enquiries are completely irrelevant, as none of these bodies are the final arbiter in this case. Scots Law is clear that there is no distinction between club and company after incorporation, when the company dies the club dies with it. That is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.
Sooner or later The Rangers fans are going to realise this fact and when they do, there will be hell to pay. Until they do, their new club can never become truly cleansed. Only then can they move on and only then can they join together with fans of other clubs to root out the real cancer at the heart of Scottish football. That’s why the MSM and the SFA are still petrified to say anything. In the meantime the real creators of this disaster are sneakily positioning themselves further and further away from the scene of the crime.
I am sure the majority of us would happily accept a new Rangers, cleansed of its financial, emotional and supremacist baggage. A club that all decent Rangers fans could support without feeling any guilt about Rangers downfall or that they were being taken for mugs. The prospect of a new dawn in Scottish football, where sporting integrity took primacy and clubs lived within their means was very real. However, as usual the SFA couldn’t miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
The truth is that Scottish football is in the state it is in, not because Rangers died but because those with the power and mandate to effect the prognosis sat back and did nothing. I am sure that they believe that ‘time heals all wounds’ and that the longer this injustice is allowed to stand the more likely it will be accepted by the man in the street. No doubt the authorities feel it is in the national interest to ‘let sleeping dogs lie’. However I cannot accept this. I believe that it is vital that we are able to face up to reality so we can move on for the benefit of all football supporters.
Scottish football is at a crossroads right now, I think we all feel it. Rampant corruption has become so mainstream that many of our fellow supporters have began to accept this as the norm. However, it just doesn’t sit right with me and I suspect that many regular contributors and readers of this blog feel likewise.
We have quite lost our way and we live in a society which spends vast amounts of money paying people like Jack Irvine to ensure that we stay lost. The mainstream media treat us like little imbeciles and demand that we conform to their assumed ‘professional superiority’. The PR machine plays up to our stereotypes and feeds our fantasies while the poorest people pay to swallow their poisonous propaganda and relentless trivia.
So what can we do ? Clearly, battering out a few blog posts and strongly worded letters to the various authorities involved has been rewarded by the square root of FA.
How can we make this an opportunity for growth rather than contributing to the destruction of Scottish football ? It is not good enough to tear down a system unless we have a better system to replace it. However, I believe that it is not the system itself which is broken. It is that those charged with administering the system are hopelessly corrupted, hugely conflicted and unable to apply their rules without fear or favour.
By their incapacity and inaction (wilful or otherwise) the SFA have facilitated a motley crew of various spivs, chancers and con-artists to glean the last few meagre pickings from the bones of the emaciated loyal supporters of this new club purporting to be the once mighty Rangers. They have permitted these ne’er-do-wells to collectively appropriate many tens of millions of pounds from the Rangers fans, the creditors and the public purse. They have already allowed this corporate malignancy to spread to a new host, ‘The Rangers’, and the absence of ‘moral hazard’ makes it more likely that the disease will continue to spread.
Benjamin Franklin once said, “‘Nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.”
Someone else once said, “The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it’s just sort of a tired feeling.”
I sense that we are all beginning to get tired of this. It is time to stand together, all football fans, face the facts and direct our anger against the officers of the SFA who have allowed this sham to develop into a catastrophe.
I have no doubt that my humble opinions expressed here will raise the ire of many deluded souls. However, I am comfortable in the knowledge that the only people who get mad at you for speaking the truth are those that are living a lie.
RIP Big Man.
John Clarke
Any supporter can attempt to place a resolution on the AGM agenda although the CST have long experience in the process and are happy to advise and help others do so as they did in this instance.
It is an attempt to make the SFA aware that they cannot continue to act as if unaccountable and that their decisions affect not just clubs but shareholders in those clubs.
On Celtic’s stance nothing has been said to my knowledge but if the rules for placing an item on the agenda have been negotiated and it features on the AGM agenda then Celtic will have to respond.
It is an interesting development and the result of hard work by two guys pushing it through.
Tif In 2.26
I’ve been following this on CQN and that is what was being said last night by those organising.
Sorry if this has already been covered,I’m sure I read somewhere on rangers tax case that the ticketus group who loaned cw the money could have included as many as 10 parties ,if we assume it wasnt a Charlotte/Murray creation could it be proven that any of these parties have resurfaced in the guise of holders of 1p shares or been given vast sums of money in contracts or consultancy fees and have now cashed in. Is their any way of checking who this particular ticketus lending group was,surely that can’t remain hidden forever.follow the money indeed.
Sunday Post headline:
“Dundee Man Nearly Hit by Piece of Falling Debris.”
Sunday Post page 5, column 4:
“Hijacked Jets Destroy Twin Towers and Hit Pentagon”
Sunday Post 😆 😆 😆
youcantbuyhistory says:
September 22, 2013 at 5:29 pm
========================
Again being pedantic
Ticketus did not lend Rangers money.
They bought season tickets in advance.
They are now a creditor because Rangers breached their contract for those tickets … by dying.
whisperer says:
September 22, 2013 at 3:46 pm
13 0 Rate This
Ramsden Cup Final
Lesser Hampden (capacity 12,000)
OR
Why not bring it forward to March or February 2014 ……… Simples ! ! !
. . . YESSSSSS – Feb 14th ????
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8935866/?
There’s A comment box at the bottom of this page on SKY website.
I commented that they mean The Rangers, as Rangers are in Liquidation and also that The Rangers have never before been in the top flight of scottish football.
Auldheid says:
September 22, 2013 at 5:23 pm
===============================
This will be interesting. The media are present at the Celtic AGM. Will they report the proposed resolutuon? Remember they don’t have to, and in that case the sizeable number of people who rely only on mainstream outlets for news will still be unaware of any potential wrongdoing.
The “Ramsden Cup” is SO last year, don’t cha know it’s the “Scottish Challenge Cup”?
At the end of goals on Sunday today when they bring up the on screen ad for what’s coming up live, one of the boxes next to arsenal stoke and City united was:
Scottish Premiership (now)
Forfar v Rangers
It’s getting silly
the struggling MSM
Was out for a stroll around town today with my wife and daughter. My wife popped into a nearby mcColls newsagent to get a bottle of bru for the walk
because she had bought SOMETHING in the shop, they gave her a Sunday mail for free.
I rarely enter a newsagent these days, so no idea if this is a common practice or not – but are newsagents now having to GIVE newspapers away?
Be interesting to see how far the circulation figures have fallen next time they are published (by interesting, i of course mean amusing)
Interesting tweet from AT ?
micky3011 @daviebrodie 1h
@alextomo Alex, are u in Glasgow this week?
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More
alex thomson @alextomo 1h
@daviebrodie I’m afraid not
Expand
micky3011 @daviebrodie 1h
@alextomo Thought perhaps you were aware of some potential breaking news re #sevco and their accounts, but not to worry.
Expand
alex thomson @alextomo 58m
@daviebrodie I think there’s big trouble looming sadly
Retweeted by Henriklubo
Lamp Post Sannies says:
September 22, 2013 at 1:17 pm
Zilch, shareholders will be sent a proxy voting form with their agm notification . They can use this to either vote by post or nominate someone to vote on their behalf. As long as this is sent back before a stated deadline then the registrars/nomad (can’t remember who deals with it) will know how many proxy votes someone can cast. Guessing this is what’s already happened with the Easdales hence why he can say he controls 24% of the shares in any agm vote
———————————————————————————————————————————————-
So presumably whoever collates the proxy forms has to have an up to date list of shareholders (issued by AIM?) and this must include named signatories for each group e.g. Margarita and Blue Pitch Holdings? I suppose it would be naive of me to imagine that this would give us info on who these groups actually are? Really need to know who has shares in each of these groups rather than just the front man?
Murky old world this business.
Of course if I was going into that AGM with an agenda that was not looking like getting sufficient support, and I could cast doubt on the numbers or on the reputability of the other side, well I imagine that would be quite a temptation to resist.
Got to be a strong chance that there are going to be fireworks between now and the AGM. Could be popcorn time. Again. 😈
Not The Huddle Malcontent says:
September 22, 2013 at 7:47 pm
I rarely enter a newsagent these days, so no idea if this is a common practice or not – but are newsagents now having to GIVE newspapers away?
————————————————–
In my local supermarket I was offered one of Murdoch’s rags, and said ‘No thanks’. The lady said “But it’s free!”. To which I said ‘Still not cheap enough, they’d have to pay me to take it’. So if you’re reading Rupert…
As for the current Scottish MSM, papers these days don’t even have the value of having fish and chips wrapped in them (not in my chippie anyway). The internet contains an awful lot of nonsense, but thankfully blogs such as this have freed us from having to read the hallucinogenic reporting of comics masquerading as newpapers.
jimlarkin says:
September 22, 2013 at 6:23 pm
I left an angry one at their rewriting of history with “Administration consigned them to the 4th tier”. I honestly don’t get why Sky would get that so wrong – they must know that liquidation followed, so why would they ignore it so blatantly? I can’t believe it’s an error, but equally, I can’t believe they’re worried about alienating the fans ( a very small proportion of Sky’s viewing audience, surely). Equally, I can’t believe they have sufficiently biased senior people who want to ignore the liquidation ( though I accept Jim White’s a t****r and I know they seemed awfully keen to have Charlie on).
So what is it that causes them to report the facts so badly? Serious question – anyone any ideas?
From the sky sports article
‘McCoist has seen many of the club’s star players exit Ibrox in recent years and he now recognises the importance of adding some new faces to his squad.
“We are going to have to buy players. We’ve lost in the region of £45-50 million worth of players,” he told the Daily Star.’
Now, if the administrators had done their job and sold those players it would have gone a long way to clearing the clubs debt but they didn’t. They expected to emerge debt free with a full squad and still playing in the top flight.
If you look on follow follow they actually seem to have removed the liquidation from history. Or at least managed to separate if from the failed administration process which led to it.
They will discuss the administration, and even the possibility of “admin 2”. They will even discuss the “previous company” going into liquidation.
They are clearly unwilling to acknowledge that it was the same entity which went into administration and once the CVA was rejected into liquidation.
It really is a study in cognitive dissonance. It frankly makes no sense.
I think the problem is this. The club was punished for going into administration, there’s no denying that the points were deducted. The entity in administration failed in getting a CVA and therefore is being liquidated. Anyone in their right mind sees it was the same entity, nothing else makes sense.
However if you cannot accept that you have to work on the basis that it was the club in administration, but the company in liquidation.
It’s mental.
readcelt says:
September 22, 2013 at 8:34 pm
==================================
He reckons the old club had a squad worth that, really.
How did he manage to fail so badly both domestically and in Europe then. Bearing in mind he didn’t actually lose any as a result of the administration. Well maybe 2, Cellick and Wylde if I remember correctly.
Tif Finn says:
September 22, 2013 at 8:39 pm
I think the problem is this. The club was punished for going into administration, there’s no denying that the points were deducted. The entity in administration failed in getting a CVA and therefore is being liquidated. Anyone in their right mind sees it was the same entity, nothing else makes sense.
——
Indeed, it’s quite straightforward.
The club was deducted points because the club went into administration. The “company” was not deducted points in a football league – the club was. Therefore, the football authorities must have been satisfied that it was the club which was in administration.
Following this administration, the club progressed into liquidation. The “company” did not suddenly get liquidated out of nowhere. Dear bears, this is because the club is the company. See?
It couldn’t be simpler, really.
Tif – young Wylde hopped out the door as soon as he (or his agent) saw the potential lie of the land. Good move. Avoided charges of high treason and attained a level of martyrdom among the bears at the time.
He’s doing alright at Pittodrie now, though. Played well against the League leaders yesterday, apparently.
I was half watching the Forfar game today while doing other stuff. I heard the PA man announce that there would be three minutes of added time. Now, I’ve seen four Hamilton Accies matches this season and have never heard the added time being announced. So not only do PretendGers get no rookie refs, unlike Accies one division up who had one yesterday, they get to know the minimum amount of added time while us proles elsewhere are left to guess.
Newspapers for free?
Ibrox match tickets for free?!?
“Wur doomed ah tell ye. Doomed, entombed an’ marooned.”
readcelt says:
September 22, 2013 at 8:34 pm
added your comment to SKY story, as well as my own diatribe against them!
nawlite, I’ll try to answer that one – they’re not interested.
bobferris says:
September 22, 2013 at 8:58 pm
==============================
That’s interesting. On the assumption every senior ground has a public address system then surely it should be standard practice to announce the added time. No surprise if Sevco are receiving preferential treatment though.
I went to twenty two lower league games last season and do not recall ever hearing the added time.
paulsatim says:
September 22, 2013 at 9:29 pm
”…added your comment to SKY story, as well as my own diatribe against them!’
—–
I’ve joined in as well ( it’s a quiet night)
I sent this by email to the only email address I could find ( bskybpress@bskyb.com)
” This is a letter to Barney Francis, Managing Director of Skysports:
” Dear Barney Francis,
In your speech at the Astra TV Conference on 14th March last, you said this of a former soccer player now employed as a football pundit : “The same diligence and hard work that made him a great player are also now making him a great analyst”.
It’s a great pity that the writer employed to write this (see http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8935866/ ) …
” The ‘Gers boast a 100 per cent record this season in the Scottish League One, as they look to continue their climb back up the divisions after administration saw them consigned to the fourth tier last summer” does not share the same ethic of hard work and diligence.
Frankly, it is disgraceful that one of your people seems to be woefully ignorant of the facts relating to Rangers International FC.
These facts are:
a) it is a new club.It cannot ‘ climb back up’ anywhere, because it has not been in any other division
b) the old Glasgow Rangers FC first went into Administration, and is now in liquidation
c) liquidation saw the death of RFC.There was therefore no club to be ‘consigned to the fourth tier’
d) a new club using the name of ‘Rangers’ in its title applied for a place in the old SPL, and was refused. It applied for a place in the old SFL , and was admitted ( against all precedent and against SFA rules) , into the bottom-most tier.
Please try to ensure that your employees do not peddle falsehoods as though they were truths.
If you let ignorant or ( God save the mark) malicious employees distort the facts for reasons of their own, it will redound on you.
So, please, get a grip of what your minions are doing.
Yours sincerely,
[ real name and address supplied] “
youcantbuyhistory says:
September 22, 2013 at 5:29 pm
========================
Again being pedantic
Ticketus did not lend Rangers money.
They bought season tickets in advance.
They are now a creditor because Rangers breached their contract for those tickets … by dying. Thanks Finn but is their any accessible record of those ticketus parties and present incumbents having cashed in or setting themselves up for a large slice of an ibrox leasing cake ,if so surely this will be uncovered eventually.
john clarke says:
September 22, 2013 at 10:05 pm
Excellent JC! Look forward to reading any response. Dont see any comments relating to that SKY story. I told them that the article was why I cancelled all my Sports subscriptions as they all peddled the lie.
I left a reply too but so far zero comments showing ❓
jean7brodie says:
September 22, 2013 at 10:45 pm
cant face the truth? :slamb:
Maybe the 3 mins added time was because of that pesky wind that only seemed to affect the sevco players 😉
Brilliant pic from twitter of one of the not so favourite anymore bloggers, http://t.co/DpjSPt6AuA 😆 😆
Excellent letter, John, but I’d like clarification on this. As I understand it, it was a company called Sevco Scotland, having bought the assets of Rangers 1872 (IA), which applied for a place. The name was changed to The Rangers 2012 after the application was made. Or perhaps even after the application was granted. No?
Maybe I dreamed all this. I’d look it up myself but it’s becoming well-nigh impossible to pick one’s way through the shameless lies surrounding this scandal.
Torquemada says:
September 22, 2013 at 11:43 pm
Wasnt it Sevco 5088 who “bought ” the assets, and they were transferred to Sevco Scotland by CG, which endeared him to the sevconians for apparently “stiffing” Craigyboy?
For the record, the announcer at the Falkirk stadium regularly (if not every match) says “The fourth official has indicated a minimum of x minutes”. So, it does happen.
Torquemada says:
September 22, 2013 at 11:43 pm
—-
‘…As I understand it, it was a company called Sevco Scotland, ..’
—–
You’re dead right, of course, Torquemada.
I’ll correct that in the physical letter that I will post ( as in through a Royal Mail letter-box!) tomorrow. I don’t trust skyb’s email sifters to ‘deliver’ my email! 😎
The Falkirk announcer also referred to the Sevco Franchise so he’s obviously a stickler for detail.
jean7brodie says:
September 22, 2013 at 10:45 pm
‘…I left a reply too but so far zero comments showing ‘
—-
Aye, jean7b, that puzzled me as well. Usually ( at least in my limited awareness) the comments made by people are there to be read, so that they feed off each other.
paulsatim says:
September 22, 2013 at 11:58 pm
‘..Wasnt it Sevco 5088…’
——
To tell the truth, I think I missed the shuffle.
It was Sevco 5088 that D&P afforded exclusivity to, and in those innocent, ignorant days I had no appreciation that a’ Sevco 5088′ was not a ‘Sevco Scotland’.
Who would have thought that CG ( or anyone else) would have risked being embedded in a concrete piling of the new Queensferry Brig for pulling a stunt like that?
I think that someone pulling such a stunt will probably go to jail, unless domiciled in some eastern country with no extradition treaty with the UK.
Or is that just a pious/impious hope?
One of the Rangers related links under the invisible comments on that Sky Sports story is to the current SPL table. From start to finish that whole web page really is a piss poor effort
Interesting tweets from @Pmacgiollabhain and @CharlotteFakes. Is the proverbial finally about to hit the fan?
@ upthehoops
Alex Thomson is not to optimistic either when he was asked about the situation
https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/381840767679205376
OT. Apologies to the blog in advance.
I just hope this week’s anticipated action at Ibrox doesn’t happen too soon,
as my attention has drifted to the America’s Cup, broadcast live on Youtube,
where the tension is unbearable !
Get it done, Kiwis !
For the record, the announcer at the Falkirk stadium regularly (if not every match) says “The fourth official has indicated a minimum of x minutes”. So, it does happen.
————————————–
He didn’t during the recent Falkirk-Hamilton game. Cuthbert, the Accies goalie, was down injured for a while and my two mates had differing ideas on how many added minutes there should be, one reckoned five another seven or eight. We were pleasantly surprised when he seemed to only add four and blew while Falkirk were about to launch the ball into the box!
paulsatim says:
September 22, 2013 at 11:58 pm
Torquemada says:
September 22, 2013 at 11:43 pm
Wasnt it Sevco 5088 who “bought ” the assets, and they were transferred to Sevco Scotland by CG, which endeared him to the sevconians for apparently “stiffing” Craigyboy?
====================================================================
Well technically I believe it is the shareholders who bought any assets through their investment. What most people, especially Rangers fans tend to miss, is that the original Sevco 5088 investors and shareholders bought the assets through their investment for which share rights were granted.
Their shareholding rights were transferred to Sevco Scotland and then to TRFCL and ultimately to RIFC Plc and this is confirmed by the TRFCL board minute of 31 October 2012 released by CF.
What is important is that most of the original faceless, mystery offshore shareholders in Sevco 5088 are still there in RIFC Plc. Always remember Green was never anything but a front man with only a leaky pot to piss-in.
He was paid big money to do what he did and take the contents of the chanty pot in the face if need be and it’s certainly looking as though needs must.
Perhaps when studying Auld French and the origins of ‘bigoterie’ he should have looked to the cess pits of Auld Edinburgh rather than the currently bubbling one that threatens to engulf Ibrox.
If he had, he may well have not only known the term ‘gardez loo’ but actually have heeded the warning 😆
EDIT ADD
Of course if Rangers had provide the overdue Annual Report for Sevco 5088 we should see the shareholders and if the had provided a complete return for TRFCL we would have seen a lot of the same names but still not know who the actual owners of the shares actually are.
Does the Easdale Camp know who they are dealing with? Does it matter to them as long as they gain control through the proxy votes of unknown shareholders who were among the first to join the original consortium that had the exclusive right to buy Rangers from D&P through Sevco 5088.
Re The Forfar Announcer
This was possibly a subtle reminder to the large travelling support that there was still a few minutes left for them to stuff another bridie doon their cake holes before they head home.
readcelt says:
September 22, 2013 at 8:34 pm
If the administrators had done their job and sold those players it would have gone a long way to clearing the clubs debt but they didn’t. They expected to emerge debt free with a full squad and still playing in the top flight.
========================================================
You know it’s always useful to look back in the fullness of time. Last year few could understand how such a f*ck-up had happened over Tupe from the Rangers point of view and we all had many learned discussions over Tupe.
But of course it was so much more simple in that Tupe had never played a part in the plans simply because as reacelt stated:
So it looks like we have gone through the old familiar cycle of heated debate, followed by things tailing off re T’Rangers and a bit of general jibber jabber going over old ground (luckily with no biscuit puns this time), followed by rumours of big news ahead.
From my point of view I have a shed load of work to get through before going on holiday shortly.
That is always a sure fire sign that something big will break that will have me ‘F5-ing’ all day and getting nothing done 🙂
Angus1983 says:
September 22, 2013 at 8:50 pm
Tif Finn says:
September 22, 2013 at 8:39 pm
I think the problem is this. The club was punished for going into administration, there’s no denying that the points were deducted. The entity in administration failed in getting a CVA and therefore is being liquidated. Anyone in their right mind sees it was the same entity, nothing else makes sense.
——
Indeed, it’s quite straightforward.
The club was deducted points because the club went into administration. The “company” was not deducted points in a football league – the club was. Therefore, the football authorities must have been satisfied that it was the club which was in administration.
Following this administration, the club progressed into liquidation. The “company” did not suddenly get liquidated out of nowhere. Dear bears, this is because the club is the company. See?
It couldn’t be simpler, really.
==============================================================
If I might take the liberty of building on what Angus1983 and Tif Finn were discussing, it seem to me that it would be quite helpful to have a simple definitive statement available to issue to anyone appropriate – Bear, friend (not-mutually exclusive), press, other media, etc.
I’ve lifted some core text from the two posters mentioned and tried to expand it into a comprehensive statement on the real position.
I know that there are probably way to many issues to address so forgive me if I have missed something major.
More than happy to see others add/amend/correct as appropriate. Without being presumptuous if we could end up with a generally agreed “TSFM standard statement” I think that would be most helpful.
Here is what I ended up with :
“It’s quite straightforward…….the SFA and other football authorities have effectively already confirmed that ‘Oldco’ and ‘Newco’ are different clubs.
The club was deducted points because the club went into administration. The “company” was not deducted points in a football league – the club was. Therefore, the football authorities must have been satisfied that it was the club which was in administration.
Following this administration, the club progressed into liquidation. The “company” did not suddenly get liquidated out of nowhere. This is because the club is the company.
Sevco 5088 Ltd then entered into an agreement with the administrators to buy the assets of the company. This was completed by Sevco Scotland Ltd in an arrangement that has yet to be fully clarified.
Sevco Scotland then changed their name to The Rangers Football Club Ltd and claimed to be the same entity as the one still in fact going through the liquidation process.
An impossibility, of course. The old Rangers are being liquidated and newco The Rangers Football Club Ltd assumed none of the responsibility for millions of pounds of debt owed to HMRC and a multitude of Scottish and other businesses.
An analogy : if I buy Lionel Messi’s boots and medals I don’t suddenly become Lionel Messi and am able to glory in his past successes.
As a new club, Sevco Scotland/The Rangers Football Club Ltd applied to join the SPL and were refused entry. They then applied to join the SFL and were granted entry to the Third Division, again in an arrangement that has yet to be fully explained as it was contrary to published rules and regulations.
The Rangers Football Club Ltd are now seeking to move through the various SPFL divisions with the aim of reaching the Premier League for the first time in a club history that began in 2012.”
A first bash and happy to see this improved where necessary.
Scottish Football needs clarity and definitive statements! 🙂
ecobhoy says:
September 23, 2013 at 9:08 am
“What is important is that most of the original faceless, mystery offshore shareholders in Sevco 5088 are still there in RIFC Plc.”
=======================
If some original investors in Sevco 5088 had already been ‘reimbursed’ in terms of capital and not insignificant interest then this would tie in with PMG suggesting that the 22m raised didn’t all make it to the bank and also the SFO enquiry regarding inappropriate return of capital. The transaction(s) though would still require to be shown in the annual return – tieing in that loop nicely also?
Interesting the level of discussion on Rangers sites about the rights and wrongs of whether Rangers bloggers should be banned from Ibrox or not.
The twittersphere is awash with rumour that action is underway because the bloggers have allegedly criticised the current board and although no names have been published the ones most mentioned by Bears are: Leggo, Dingwall, and Mammy’s Boy.
One Bear poster who in the past has been quite spot-on with Ibrox news has stated: ‘Probably true, one Interim Interdict granted possibly resulting in a court appearance in the next day or so.’
If the twitterati are correct then it seriously opens-up all sorts of questions on Freedom of Speech and the Right to Comment. We know that an organised section of Rangers’ support is vehemently opposed to those rights when others exercise them to make comment on Rangers.
How will the Rangers support react when it is their own who are possibly being fingered as Rangers’ Haters by their own club with draconian penalties being rumoured ❓ We certainly live in interesting times 😆
Smugas says:
September 23, 2013 at 9:53 am
ecobhoy says:
September 23, 2013 at 9:08 am
“What is important is that most of the original faceless, mystery offshore shareholders in Sevco 5088 are still there in RIFC Plc.”
=======================
If some original investors in Sevco 5088 had already been ‘reimbursed’ in terms of capital and not insignificant interest then this would tie in with PMG suggesting that the 22m raised didn’t all make it to the bank and also the SFO enquiry regarding inappropriate return of capital. The transaction(s) though would still require to be shown in the annual return – tieing in that loop nicely also?
==========================================================
I have tried to keep an open mind over the failure of Rangers to provide complete Annual Returns for Sevco 5088 and TRFCL – both of these are now very much overdue. I have not accepted the pathetically incomplete return on TRFCL and it would appear that Companies House hasn’t accepted it either.
What is the problem? What is causing the delay? We are only talking about a max of a few dozen names and allegedly all of them have been published previously.
Are there more names that have never been published? I haven’t a clue but every instinct I have shrieks: PROBLEM ❗
Making friends as they climb up the divisions?
‘… tempers flared when Cameron criticised the Angus team’s “poxy” stadium in the boardroom after the match.’
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/comedian-andy-cameron-banned-forfars-2294532
This company was mentioned on here already I think, though there was an interesting comment on the timeline as to whether Easdale Holdngs Ltd was being lined up as the new Sevco for the upcoming new, new Ibrox club.
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC457172/EASDALE-HOLDINGS-LIMITED
——-
Paulo Notini
@pmcm888
Easdale Holdings Ltd,incorp 20/8/13 via @JohnMcLean_HS67 companycheck.co.uk/company/SC4571…
11:11am – 15 Sep 13
——-
Eco,
Whilst not aquainted on spivdom techniques if you’re pulling a fly one with something like share registers you would have expected it into companies house on day one with all i’s and t’s of representative and suitably obscure names completed to perfection. Either there’s something in the registers that is damning in its own right (doesn’t take a huge stretch of the imagination, but they wouldn’t be that stupid, Shirley) or there is something else that HAS to happen first before the damaging revelation comes out.
Lord Wobbly says:
September 23, 2013 at 10:24 am
2 0 Rate This
Making friends as they climb up the divisions?
‘… tempers flared when Cameron criticised the Angus team’s “poxy” stadium in the boardroom after the match.’
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/comedian-andy-cameron-banned-forfars-2294532
————
Missing out on tea and clootie dumpling is a serious issue, that’ll teach him 🙂
Danish Pastry says:
September 23, 2013 at 10:38 am
Lord Wobbly says:
September 23, 2013 at 10:24 am
Making friends as they climb up the divisions?
‘… tempers flared when Cameron criticised the Angus team’s “poxy” stadium in the boardroom after the match.’
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/comedian-andy-cameron-banned-forfars-2294532
————
Missing out on tea and clootie dumpling is a serious issue, that’ll teach him 🙂
==============================================
Well that’s another boycott for Forfar and a guaranteed place on the Rangers’ Haters Wall 🙄
I’m beginning to wonder if all these boycotts are actuall ‘manufactured’ so it ends-up the only games Bears will be able to attend to spend their Blue £ is at Ibrox,
redlichtie says:
September 23, 2013 at 9:52 am
Just a couple of points:
“The club was deducted points because the club went into administration. The “company” was not deducted points in a football league – the club was. Therefore, the football authorities must have been satisfied that it was the club which was in administration.”
The rules quite clearly state that the club will suffer a points deduction if its owner/operator suffers an insolvency event. So it does not follow that a points deduction means that the club is in administration (even if such a thing was possible).
“Following this administration, the club progressed into liquidation. The “company” did not suddenly get liquidated out of nowhere. This is because the club is the company.”
Well I don’t follow the logic of that at all, but maybe that’s just me. Liquidation is a process that only applies to companies. All the legal processes apply only to companies- it was the company, the owner/operator of the club, which went through the legal process of administration and liquidation.
By the way, I am not trying to launch yet another debate on this subject. I certainly won’t get involved in any such debate, as I have pointed out several times that in my iopinion the matter has been done to death several times, with nobody’s opinion changing. However it is best to be accurate on points of detail when putting forward arguments with people who are likely to come back to you. So I’m just trying to be helpful.
redlichtie says:
September 23, 2013 at 9:52 am
*De-lurk*
Great idea.
All professional football teams are operated by companies. They just happen to have the word “Club” in their company name.
The argument over the transfer of SFA membership equals same club is overruled by UEFA’s need for 3 years continuous membership (& previous year’s audited accounts – cf Auldheid). TRFC is not eligible for European competition on both criteria.
I’d also like to see a list of questions the media wont ask starting with the same club claptrap.
*Re-lurk*
Redlichtie – looks pretty good to me. It may be worth adding a wee bit about why TRFC will not get to play in Europe should they win the Scottish Cup this year.
What needs to be done is to get such a statement, then subject it to any and all “Devil’s advocate” processes that can be thought of.
It would need to be watertight, and as brief as possible (not easy, I know).
Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 10m
Lord Nimmo, with respect, created a distinction between club and company, to which all litigants agreed.
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john .ronnie @johnronnie42 6m
@LawTop20 why did uefa not clear all this up are sfa scared of them and reply
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Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 3m
@johnronnie42 that’s a question they could only answer
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john .ronnie @johnronnie42 2m
@LawTop20 cheers i respect your work keep it up hh 😀
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Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 1m
@johnronnie42 I am obliged
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2:58 AM – 23 Sep 13 · Details
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Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 10m
Lord Nimmo, with respect, created a distinction between club and company, to which all litigants agreed.
Expand
john .ronnie @johnronnie42 6m
@LawTop20 why did uefa not clear all this up are sfa scared of them and reply
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Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 3m
@johnronnie42 that’s a question they could only answer
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john .ronnie @johnronnie42 2m
@LawTop20 cheers i respect your work keep it up hh 😀
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Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 1m
@johnronnie42 I am obliged
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Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 5m
Without a separate legal personality, there is no capacity to contract. Eventually a problem could be created with regards to a membership.
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Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 7m
It is confirmed that the club could have a ‘distinct’ existence, but not a separate legal personality. For UEFA rules, this is significant.
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Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 10m
Lord Nimmo, with respect, created a distinction between club and company, to which all litigants agreed.
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Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 22m
I repeat, it is not a question of being the same club, but whether legality allows it to be.
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WeeJamesey @Lennysbhoy 17m
@LawTop20 as far as scottish or european law is concerned, is it illegal for it to be the same club ?
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Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 14m
@Lennysbhoy the very point in contention which is currently under analysis.
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Schadenfreude @brianking80 10m
@LawTop20 @Lennysbhoy at the end of the day nothing will change up here. It will be the same shite soundbites and sweeping under the carpet.
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Gregory Ioannidis @LawTop20 22m
I repeat, it is not a question of being the same club, but whether legality allows it to be.
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ecobhoy says:
September 23, 2013 at 10:46 am
2 0 Rate This
Danish Pastry says:
September 23, 2013 at 10:38 am
Lord Wobbly says:
September 23, 2013 at 10:24 am
Making friends as they climb up the divisions?
‘… tempers flared when Cameron criticised the Angus team’s “poxy” stadium in the boardroom
after the match.’
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/comedian-andy-cameron-banned-
forfars-2294532
————
Missing out on tea and clootie dumpling is a serious issue, that’ll teach him
==============================================
Well that’s another boycott for Forfar and a guaranteed place on the Rangers’ Haters Wall
I’m beginning to wonder if all these boycotts are actuall ‘manufactured’ so it ends-up the only games Bears will be able to attend to spend their Blue £ is at Ibrox,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is he a doughnut or am I wrang?
You can’t just sweep tradition under the carpet to suit the current agenda. Call me a sentimental old fool if you wish but they’ll always be sevco to me.
Lord Wobbly says:
September 23, 2013 at 11:07 am
1 1 Rate This
———–
Maybe Andy thought he was being funny, in a Frankie Boyle kind of unfunny way?
Nice tae see the wee teams flexing their muscle though, or in this case, dumpling. I saw some of it on telly before the F1 and thought it looked a braw wee stadium. At least they can boast an unbroken history dating back to 1885 and more league titles than Scotland’s youngest club.
Still no comments appearing on that terrible SSN report on McCoist buying more players as they progress up the leagues. That is despite a number of people on here leaving ‘correcting’ comments. In a supposedly democratic and ‘free speech’ society, that is ridiculous and unacceptable.
Before all this, I naively didn’t realise how so many organisations – SFA, UEFA, Scottish government, William Hill, MSM etc and now Sky – simply refuse to acknowledge any comment/question that is either critical or goes against their (questionable) worldview.
Lord Wobbly says:
September 23, 2013 at 10:24 am
‘… tempers flared when Cameron criticised the Angus team’s “poxy” stadium in the boardroom after the match.’
————————————————————–
Maybe Cameron was misheard asking if The Rangers team could use Forfar’s ground as a “proxy stadium” in case they were denied access to play at Ibrox for any reason
neepheid says:
September 23, 2013 at 10:47 am
redlichtie says:
September 23, 2013 at 9:52 am
Just a couple of points:
“The club was deducted points because the club went into administration. The “company” was not deducted points in a football league – the club was. Therefore, the football authorities must have been satisfied that it was the club which was in administration.”
The rules quite clearly state that the club will suffer a points deduction if its owner/operator suffers an insolvency event. So it does not follow that a points deduction means that the club is in administration (even if such a thing was possible).
=======================
If there was a company which owned or operated them it was Wavetower (as was) which I believe became Rangers Group Ltd or something like that.
As far as I am aware they did not go into administration at that time.
With regard liquidation, there is no doubt that it was the same entity which was placed in administration which was subsequently liquidated when it failed to achieve a CVA. As has been discussed many times that was the PLC, which had previously been a Ltd Company, which had previously been a members club.
I will not argue about whther the club exists as a separate entity in the hearts of Rangers’ supporters, that is a matter entirely for them. However in any real sense that “club” as was only existed as a PLC. It is that which was placed in administration and it was that which is being liquidated. It still exists.
Just wondering……
Given that they STILL haven’t filed fully audited accounts yets, does that mean that the supposed ‘3 year ban from Europe’ is set to continue for a while longer yet, assuming that they survive that long? I’m assuming that would give time for journalists to actually find the bit of UEFA legislation they keep referrimg to that actually gives a 3 year ban for not filing accounts? Good luck with that one…..
john clarke says:
September 23, 2013 at 12:13 am
‘….I’ll correct that in the physical letter that I will post ( as in through a Royal Mail letter-box!) tomorrow. ..’
—-
Hard copy of appropriately amended email winging its way (thanks to publicly owned Royal Mail!) to Barney Francis.
Just heard Mr Regan on BBC Radio Scotland saying he was not overly concerned about the absence of a sponsor for the SPFL.
He mentioned that Mr Doncaster was the really the man to talk to.
TSFM I think that is a good idea.
Why don’t we ask Mr Doncaster to write a guest blog for us about the SPFL sponsorship plans?
Shooperb says:
September 23, 2013 at 1:06 pm
8 2 Rate This
Just wondering……
Given that they STILL haven’t filed fully audited accounts yets, does that mean that the supposed ’3 year ban from Europe’ is set to continue for a while longer yet, assuming that they survive that long? I’m assuming that would give time for journalists to actually find the bit of UEFA legislation they keep referrimg to that actually gives a 3 year ban for not filing accounts? Good luck with that one…..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If audited accounts aren’t produced, then no AGM can be held. In that case, believe me, the game’s a bogey, the cat’s in the lobby, eating a chocolate biscuit (if anyone else is old enough to remember that one).
This is a bullet that they can’t dodge, so it’s either show your cards, or fold. UEFA regulations are the very least of their problems right now. Auldheid will give you chapter and verse on the specifics of the rules involved, but I doubt it will ever come to that- unless Sandy Easdale (or Dave King?) has a very big bag of cash that he’s willing to throw away.
🙂 really looking forward to Halloween this year ………… Can’t think why 😉
Interesting development
“Frankie @GersnetOnline 9m
Also had a lawyer email asking us to withdraw all forum discussion on a supposed police investigation into the club. #carefulnow”
TSFM: Have the Two Rons sent the boys round yet?
Brenda says:
September 23, 2013 at 2:08 pm
Indeed….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BmEGm-mraE